1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 2: Guilty guilty on all counts in the Delphi double murder trial. 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 2: Richard Allen has just been found guilty in the murders 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: of Little Abby and Libby. We are at the courthouse, 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 2: joining us, Susan Hendrix. 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: Susan, what happened? 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 3: Four days of deliberation? Guilty on all counts, Richard Allen, 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 3: it's on, guilty on all counts. 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum joining me, who has been covering this story 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: from the very beginning. Along with me, along with Susan 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: Hendrick and Dave mac Cheryl, I understand that people poured 12 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 2: out of the courthouse and had not made it to 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 2: that bottom step where you and I waited to get in, 14 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 2: and yelled out guilty, and then a cheer went up 15 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: all around Nancy. 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 4: They could not wait to get to the first step 17 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 4: before they were celebrating. Guilty on all health Finally, for 18 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 4: Abby and Libby, justice is served. 19 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 2: A jury of five men seven women have returned a 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 2: verdict of guilty. Richard Allen guilty on four charges and 21 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 2: the murders of Abigail Abby Williams and Liberty Libby German, 22 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 2: the fifty two year old Delphi man convicted. I saw 23 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: when the defense attorneys were leaving the courthouse. People were asking, hey, hey, 24 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 2: talk to us, talk to us. They got in their 25 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 2: cars and they took off straight out to Dave Mac. 26 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: Dave Mack, we've all been studying. The indictment. Is correct 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong? Two charges of felony murder and 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: two charges of malice murder? 29 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 5: Is that correct, Dave Mac? 30 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 6: That's absolutely correct. Guilty on all four charges. 31 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: Abby thirteen, best friend Libby fourteen, going for a hike 32 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 2: at the Monon high Bridge the noon February thirteen, two 33 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: thousand and seventeen. Cheryl, can you believe it's taken this 34 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: long frame veric to be handed down? 35 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 4: You know it showed due diligence by this jury. Natty, 36 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 4: When you were my prosecutor, you would tell me often 37 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 4: every day of trial equals an hour of deliberation. Seems 38 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 4: like to me they were right on time. They did 39 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 4: their job as hard as it would, you know, was 40 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 4: for them being away from their families. They did the 41 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 4: work and we're seeing the results. Twelve people came to 42 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 4: the same conclusion on the same day, at the same 43 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 4: time for these two young victims. 44 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: Susan Hendricks with us at the courthouse. 45 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: Susan, as the hours went by, many people thought that 46 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 2: today would either be a hung jury or time for 47 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: a dynamite charge. 48 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's what I thought i'd see Monday morning. When 49 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 3: I came back this morning night, I just thought, Okay, hungary. 50 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 3: I don't know why, my gut said that. These street 51 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 3: from the sidewalk word lined here and I almost started 52 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 3: crying when I heard the verdict, the scream kilty and 53 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 3: there was a ruar of celebratory if you will, because 54 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 3: of how long this has taken. 55 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 2: You know, Susan Hendricks, What has the mood been in 56 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: the courtroom when every day we would find out, well, 57 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: they haven't reached a vertict. Today, they haven't reached a 58 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: vertict today, they didn't reach it. At lunch, they didn't 59 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: reach it. At the end of the day. We're going 60 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: to come back over the weekend, We're going to come 61 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,119 Speaker 2: back on Veterans Day. 62 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: What was the mood in the courtroom. 63 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I'll just tell you one thing. 64 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 3: The family looked and founded, depleted energy, gone exhaustion. 65 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 7: Thinking the worst that we're going to have to do this. 66 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: You mean, Abby and Libby's family, Abby and Libby's family. 67 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 3: Yes the end, Richard Allen's family breaking down in tears. 68 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: I know that they're all exhausted. 69 00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 5: I mean, Cheryl, when you and I would. 70 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: Go through you know, winks and winks, a majority trial, 71 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: it was like I'd be a zombie by the time 72 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: I'd be so tired and exhausted at the time the 73 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 2: verdict finally came in, and then when it would all 74 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: be over, you just like practically fall over. 75 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: I know. 76 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 2: The families on both sides are just a raw emotion, Sheryl. 77 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 4: No way around it, Nancy. For a month physically it's 78 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 4: been exhausting, but the emotional toll is just off the charge. 79 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 4: And again you've got two families that have been victimized, 80 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 4: one family of the accused now convicted. You've got three 81 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 4: families then have been on pins and needles and exhausted 82 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 4: and emotionally stent. But again, todays we have two families 83 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 4: that can start the process of healing, and you've got 84 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 4: another family that just unfortunately has got to deal with 85 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 4: the consequences of what their loved one did. 86 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 2: Well, we've heard a lot of the evidence at trial, 87 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 2: and we're going to analyze what we believe turned the 88 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 2: jury to this verdict. Finally, for those of you just 89 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 2: joining us justice for Abby and Libby, the jury has 90 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 2: handed down a guilty verdict. 91 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: Guilty on all counts. 92 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: That's two counts of felony murder and two counts of 93 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 2: malice or intentional murder. 94 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: Now what does that mean. This has been charged in 95 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: the alternative malice murder or murder. 96 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: One Premeditated murder simply means that you had the intent 97 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: to do the act, not necessarily to kill, but you 98 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: have the intent to slice the girl's throats with a knife. 99 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 2: Felony murder does not require any intent at all. It 100 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: simply means that a death occurred during the commission of 101 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: a felony. The felony here man would be kidnapping. Forcing 102 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 2: the girls down the hill. No set degree or amount 103 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: of asportation, as it is called under the. 104 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: Law moving the victim. 105 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 2: You can move them to another country, you can move 106 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: them three inches. That still qualifies as asportation under the law. 107 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: In this case, forcing them off the bridge, down the hill, 108 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 2: across the creek is asportation. That equals kidnapping. They're not 109 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: going to be sentenced to felony murder life or forty 110 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 2: to sixty five and on malice murder consecutively. Those counts 111 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: now merge. I believe in that jurisdiction, and there are 112 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: mandatory sentences, but the sentencing has been set down. I 113 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: believe Susan Hendricks for December twenty, and I believe the 114 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 2: defense is going to call character witnesses. 115 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, December twentieth, you said it right and self stunned 116 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 3: about the verdict today. I swore it was going to 117 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 3: be deadlocked. So that's what I heard December twentieth. 118 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 2: It's the next So Cheryl McCollum very quickly, I want 119 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 2: to analyze what we know. There has been so much division, 120 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: and you know, Susan Dave mac jump in, Cheryl, I've 121 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 2: heard so much about the town of Delphi being divided. 122 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: I haven't necessarily seen any division when we were there. 123 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 4: I've never seen division in this town on any topic, 124 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 4: whether it was the investigation, fighting for justice, or every 125 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 4: single day and night after court. What I saw when 126 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 4: the town started putting signs up, even on business windows, 127 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 4: they were solid in what they wanted, justice for Abby 128 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 4: and Libby. And I'm going to tell you something, Nancy, 129 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 4: when a lot of the information came out, and a 130 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 4: lot of his confessions came out. I don't think it 131 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 4: was lost on this community or this jury when he 132 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 4: told in chronological order what happened that day, That to 133 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 4: me was when the tide turned completely for the majority 134 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 4: of people. 135 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 5: Oh gosh. 136 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: I remember sitting there with Susan Hendrix in the courtroom 137 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 2: when the first psych walla came up, and she was 138 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: didn't seem like she had a dog in a fight. 139 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 2: I'm not saying she was disinterested, but she was very clinical, 140 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: and that's kind of what you want in a shrink 141 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 2: or a doctor or an expert on the stand. You 142 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 2: don't want them to be swayed by opinion or conviction 143 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: of their own. You want them to recount in a 144 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: clinical manner what happened, and she did that on the stand. 145 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 2: Of course, later it came out that she was a 146 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 2: crime sleuth and it had been investigating the case on 147 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: her own, but she took copious notes of everything. Richard 148 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: Allen said, Susan Hendrix, do you remember you and I 149 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: are watching the jury like hawks when she described what 150 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 2: he said, including Susan Hendrix when he asked to use 151 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 2: the phone to call his wife, and Wala left the 152 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 2: room to give him pride to see she came back 153 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: and he goes, I want to call her back. She 154 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: doesn't believe me. She doesn't believe I kill Dabby and Libby. 155 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: Do you remember that moment? And the jury was just 156 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 2: sitting there staring at her. They weren't taking notes, they 157 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: were just looking at her. 158 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, And those. 159 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 7: When he told doctor Walla over and over and. 160 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 3: Over again that he did this, and even like you said, 161 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 3: mentioned that his wife didn't believe it, that his mother 162 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 3: didn't believe it, and he sounded of sound mind. She 163 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 3: said that she didn't believe that he was in. 164 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 2: Psychosis crime stories with Nancy Grace. 165 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: Another thing, Cheryl. 166 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 5: Did you notice in court? 167 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: And you too, Susan Dave mac jump in. 168 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 2: I mean, we've been waiting for this day over seven years. 169 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 2: This moment has been over seven years in the ma 170 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: King since Abby and Libby disappeared on a simple walk 171 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 2: Feb thirteen, two thousand and seven, investigators finding them both 172 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: brutally murdered the next day, their bodies covered in branches 173 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 2: in a wooded area near that high trestle bridge. I'm 174 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: just thinking how the jury could look at him, Cheryl McCollum, 175 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 2: because he looks so sane, you know, dressed up for 176 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 2: the courtroom. He had those glasses perched up on his 177 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: head that he never used. I never saw him use 178 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 2: the glasses one time. And I mean to look at 179 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: him talking to his lawyers asking hey, hammy cements, you know, 180 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 2: and just looking when the door opened, you know, conversing 181 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 2: back and forth, mouthing things to his wife. 182 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: He was totally sane in the courtroom. 183 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 2: So it's hard to reconcile what they were seeing with 184 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 2: what the defense was saying. 185 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: Cheryl. 186 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 4: Again, I don't think they missed it. He's there taking no, 187 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 4: he's talking to them, whispering, he's acknowledging what people are saying. Oftentimes, 188 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 4: when somebody was testifying, he would. 189 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 7: Be nodding yes. 190 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 4: Sometimes he would almost scoff like, oh, that's ridiculous. Again, 191 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 4: this is not somebody that they were portraying in this 192 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 4: psychotic state. Again, Nancy, when you first sent me there, 193 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 4: the thing that I remember most I was in the 194 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 4: car with Kelsey. I was driving, and I said, please, 195 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 4: don't anybody tell me how to get to the bridge. 196 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 4: I want to see if I can find it, and 197 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 4: I couldn't. There's no real signage, there's no way to 198 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 4: get there. And I knew then, and I told everybody 199 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 4: he's from here, He's right here, And I think that's something. Also, 200 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 4: the jury knew this was not some transient person. This 201 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 4: isn't somebody that they didn't zero in on. The jury 202 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 4: took all the information, funneled it down into its pewett 203 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 4: you know, purest form. It is Richard Allen. 204 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: You just ask Joepan Dave. 205 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 6: Yes, you can go a couple of things. One where 206 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 6: you're talking about he seemed really sane in talking to 207 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 6: his attorneys. Well, they turned the video away from the gallery, 208 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 6: so we couldn't see what the jury saw where he 209 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 6: was nude or partially nude and acting out in while 210 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 6: he's being held in solitary, so we didn't get to 211 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 6: see that. They did. They got to see this guy 212 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 6: who's wacko nut job in jail and then seeing him 213 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 6: over here acting normal. But the other thing was I 214 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 6: was really concerned about the bullet, the whole the Cartri's thing, 215 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 6: the one piece of actual physical evidence that tied Richard 216 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 6: Allen to the crime scene. And you pointed out they're 217 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 6: telling everybody. They're telling the jury to ignore the evidence. 218 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 6: Don't even do that. And I thought as this went on, 219 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 6: as the deliberations went on, I thought, oh my gosh, 220 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 6: they're buying into this lie. 221 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not just a bullet day. You're right. 222 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 2: They were saying, Hey, I know he gave sixty plus confessions, 223 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 2: but ignore that. It's like in the Wizard of a House. 224 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: Don't look at the man behind the curtain. Just keep 225 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 2: looking at the big scary image. And I'm pre checking 226 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,719 Speaker 2: up on the wall. Don't look at me, don't look 227 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: at the bullet Forget about that. 228 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: It's not real. Forget about all the confessions. They're not real. 229 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: Forget about the fact that he was wearing the same 230 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 2: clothes as the bridge guy and places himself at the 231 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: scene of the murder in the timeframe the girls were murdered. 232 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 2: I mean, you're right, Dave mac don't look here, look there. 233 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 2: Look at the screen of him naked and masturbating and 234 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: spitting and eating paper and. 235 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 5: Putting his head in the commo. 236 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: Look at that, Look at that, Look at that. That's 237 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: what the defense was, Susan Hendrix. 238 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and obviously clearly it didn't work. I know that 239 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 3: on Saturday, the jerry wanted to hear Libby's phone again 240 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 3: the recording, and they also wanted to hear an interview 241 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 3: that Richard Allen did October twenty twenty two. Were they 242 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 3: comparing the voice? I'm guessing yet maybe they had one 243 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,719 Speaker 3: holdout who wanted to make sure the voice. 244 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: Is Matt Okay. 245 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: Tell me again exactly what they wanted to hear, because 246 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 2: you know, Cheryl, that would throw me into a fit. 247 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: When the jury had a question during deliberations, I would 248 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: love it and hate it because I always believe that 249 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 2: the questions they asked, that they asked during deliberations tell 250 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: you where they're headed. Do you remember, Cheryl, whenever we 251 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 2: would get a question during jury deliberations, oh, my. 252 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 4: Stars, oh without question. And Nancy, that's what this did 253 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 4: for me. You and I talked just privately, and both 254 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 4: of us said, if they want to look at those 255 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 4: videos of the interrogation, that to me was for the prosecution. 256 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 4: There was no doubt in our minds at all. 257 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: I felt that, yes, you and I discussed that, and 258 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 2: I felt on the other side of the fence, cheryld 259 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 2: that if they wanted to look at him behind bars 260 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: acting out, you know, having his alleged psychotic break, that 261 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 2: would be bad for the state. But if they wanted 262 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: to hear his confession or his statement, that would be 263 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: good for the state. 264 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: Now, So, Susan, Henrick's. 265 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 2: Guys joining us at the courthouse. He's been there throughout 266 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 2: the trial. Susan, tell me what it is. They wanted 267 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: to hear on Saturday exactly. 268 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 3: They wanted to hear what was on Libby's recording from 269 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 3: that day February thirteen, twenty seventeen, which is now why 270 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 3: we say, guys, down the hill. We all knew that 271 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 3: we saw it during trial, the entire forty three seconds. 272 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 3: They wanted to hear that. And they also wanted to 273 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 3: hear the interview with Detective Holman and with Richard Allen 274 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 3: when it got heated the day he was arrested. They 275 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 3: wanted to hear that man that was aggressive with Detective Holman, 276 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 3: and they wanted to compare the voices. 277 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: So on Libby's phone you can hear down the Hill, 278 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 2: down the Hill, okay, And on the interview you can 279 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: hear Richard Allen speaking to Holman getting angry. 280 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, I bet you're right. 281 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: I bet you're right, and I wonder if they were 282 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 2: listening Susan Hendrix for anything he said in that interview 283 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 2: that corroborated things that only the killer would know, such 284 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 2: as what Susan yeah. 285 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 3: And also I shut my eyes Nancy in court as 286 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 3: he was talking, and I thought, that's Bridge guy because 287 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 3: I heard him say the word down, down talking about 288 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 3: something else. I drove down there, sit down this stuff, 289 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 3: and I just shut my eyes and I opened it 290 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 3: and I saw one of the defense at herneys quickly 291 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 3: look away from me. But I was saying, that's him, 292 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 3: that's him, because he hasn't spoken a word. He whispers 293 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 3: to his attorneys. You never hear him talk beside Libby's phone. 294 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 3: I believe he is Bridge guy. That's what they wanted 295 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 3: to prove, and they did it hey day. 296 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: Cheryl, you and Dave and I agreed weeks ago that 297 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: there's no way this guy's going to take the stand 298 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,359 Speaker 2: because he doesn't want the jury to hear his voice anymore. 299 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: He doesn't want to provide another voice exemplar. But Cheryl, 300 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 2: I remember when Susan and I were talking and she 301 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: was describing that moment that she was just telling you about, 302 00:16:56,920 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 2: and she was Nancy, it's him. I closed my eyes. 303 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: I listened to him on the video on the interview, 304 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 2: I listened to the bridge guy, and I knew that 305 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 2: is him. 306 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 4: That's right. And she told me the same thing. And 307 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 4: I'll tell you something, nemethw that I think is critical. 308 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 4: If you remember back when Wayne Williams was on trial, 309 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 4: when people first saw him, they thought this young, pudgy, 310 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 4: week looking guy, like, there's no way he's this big killer. 311 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 4: But when Jack Miler was able to make him freak 312 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 4: out on the stand and burst into anger, that was 313 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 4: a change for the entire jury. I think that's what 314 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 4: happened here. They saw that he was capable of just 315 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 4: having this rage, and I think that was important to see. 316 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 2: Dave, Mike, what do you think held the jury up 317 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 2: this long? For all I know, nothing held them up. 318 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 2: They could have, Dave, Dave and I love to talk 319 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 2: about her second guess like, what does this mean? 320 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: What does that mean? 321 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 5: It may mean. 322 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 2: Nothing, Dave, Okay, But what do you think was the 323 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 2: sticking point? 324 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: If there was one? It may have really just taken 325 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: this long to go through everything. 326 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 6: I think there were sticking points, Nancy. I think the 327 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 6: sixteen questions. You know that I asked you this early on. 328 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 6: The jury was allowed to ask questions of people testifying 329 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 6: after they were done. They asked more questions about the 330 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 6: bullet than anything else. They asked a total of sixteen 331 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 6: questions about that. So I was concerned there. Another one 332 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 6: I was really concerned with was the cell phone data, 333 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 6: the phone ringing and then immediately having this the three 334 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 6: point five plug going in, the headphone plug going into 335 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 6: the phone, and then being unplugged five hours later. I 336 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 6: thought that was incredibly fascinating testimony. However, I also knew 337 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 6: from another trial that this is something that can happen 338 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 6: with water or dirt, something getting in there, and because 339 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 6: of the location of where that phone was found under 340 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 6: Abby's body, it made perfectly good sense that water or dirt, 341 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 6: a spect could have gotten in there and actually have 342 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 6: triggered that thing. To point out that it says the 343 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 6: headphone jack is in the biggest problem I had, and 344 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 6: I'm sure the jury questioned, this is why did you 345 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 6: have this for seven plus years and now you're googling it? 346 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 6: Why couldn't you have some better testimony than that? And 347 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 6: I think they came back with, well, it was an 348 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 6: obvious thing. There was nothing to it, and that's why 349 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 6: they didn't dig deeper. 350 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 2: Well, I guess when asked, all you've got for me 351 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: to cross on cross me with is a Google search, 352 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 2: And I guess one answer me yeah, because that's all 353 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 2: it took. Doc Right. But that said, Richard Allen's wife 354 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: has come out of the courthouse and stated, quote, this 355 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 2: isn't over at all. 356 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: M What do you make of that season, Hendricks. 357 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 3: I think that the family believes he's innocent, and I 358 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 3: believe the attorneys made the family feel he was innocent 359 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 3: and gave them a shot. And this is coming up 360 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 3: on a peel and they're going to blame judge Golf 361 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 3: for a whole lot of things. 362 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh gosh, yeah, they're already coming down on 363 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: the judge. I got to tell you something. When I 364 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 2: was in the courtroom, I locked eyes with a judge. 365 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 2: That woman she is as tough as nails, and she 366 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 2: kept an iron clad rule. 367 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: On that courtroom, and she should have. She would tolerate no. 368 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: Talking, no eating, no drinking, nothing from either side. I 369 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 2: did notice she was very, very kind and considerate to 370 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 2: the jury, which reminds me of a lot of the 371 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 2: judges that I practiced in front of, but to everybody else, 372 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 2: I would I don't think she was too firm. 373 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,679 Speaker 1: I think she was just right. Wouldn't you agree, Susan? 374 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, I respect her. 375 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 7: I know she was strict, But what she went through. 376 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 3: Before having to go to the Supreme Court, they wanted 377 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,719 Speaker 3: her kicked off the attorneys. It was a circuit and 378 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 3: he said, uh uh, isn't happening with me? And I 379 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 3: believe she did an excellent job. 380 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: You know, she really did. 381 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 2: I believe that she has indicated she told the defense 382 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 2: attorneys to go ahead and file their motion about third 383 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 2: party suspects. 384 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 5: If there was going to be an appeal. 385 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,360 Speaker 2: The attorneys are already claiming the judges at fault by 386 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 2: not allowing them to bring up and I'm telling you 387 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: what they wanted to bring up, which I think was 388 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 2: a poor choice odinism. Oh, I mean, yeah, what they 389 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: I mean, you're going to convince a jury some thor 390 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 2: worshippers did this made a blood sacrifice like that? 391 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: Kook on YouTube. 392 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 2: Said no, no, no, Dury would have ever believe that. But 393 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 2: what about Cheryl, the guy who passed away? He's not 394 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 2: there to defend himself anymore, he would have been the 395 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 2: perfect scapegoat for the defense. 396 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 4: Ron Logan is not there to defend himself all for 397 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 4: an up sacrifice that has never been done ever with 398 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 4: two young teenage white females was ridiculous. But Nancy, I 399 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 4: don't want to gloss over. 400 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 2: Wait, hold on, I want to clear up what you 401 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 2: just said. The reason you said it was ridiculous that 402 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 2: Odiness would kill two white teens is because Oldiness in 403 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 2: certain areas, Odinism has been mixed with the Erya nation 404 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 2: and quite supremacists. So if they killed anybody, it would 405 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 2: not be. 406 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: A victim like Abby and Libby. 407 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 2: They'd picked somebody else that they hated, Right, is that 408 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: why you're saying that. 409 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 4: That's exactly why I'm saying it. Plus, it's never been done, 410 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 4: so when you get this down to the mass of it, 411 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 4: it was never gonna hold. It was never gonna stick. 412 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 4: But I would like to address something Susan just said. 413 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 4: When his wife comes out and says this isn't over, 414 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 4: let me tell you something. She had the opportunity to 415 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,959 Speaker 4: get on that stand attacked him and to make us 416 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 4: understand he didn't do this. She could have told us 417 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 4: what he did on the night of the thirteenth, how 418 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 4: it was Valentine's Day for the two of them. She 419 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 4: didn't do that. She had a chance to help save him, 420 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 4: and she chose not to do it. And when she 421 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 4: found out that not only was he at the trails, 422 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 4: he was on the bridge, her first statement to him was, 423 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 4: you never told me you were on the bridge. She 424 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 4: didn't want to take the stand because she knew she 425 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 4: couldn't because she recognized him. She recognized the clothes and 426 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 4: the walk and the boys. She knew not only that 427 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 4: he was there at that exact time. Keep in mind, 428 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 4: Richard Allen never saw another man. He only saw girls. 429 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 7: He never even saw the. 430 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 4: Women that saw him. She knew, She knew what happened 431 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 4: when the police came to her house, She knew what 432 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 4: happened when they came the second time that she didn't 433 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 4: call them, and she knew what happened when they showed. 434 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 3: Up with a warrant. 435 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 2: Susan Hendrix, when was the first confession taken? 436 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 3: April April twenty twenty two, April early April twenty twenty two. 437 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 3: And I have an entire timeline in my six notebooks 438 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 3: of when Oh gosh, yeah. But when he did first 439 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 3: confess he was a found mind that came first before this. 440 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 4: Elegy COVID. 441 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 442 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 5: Let me ask you, Dave Mac. 443 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 2: We have been coming through all of the fantastical theories 444 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: and I was really worried the jury might latch onto 445 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 2: one of these if if there was a scentilla of 446 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 2: evidence put forward about it. But why are people so 447 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 2: convinced that he's innocent. I mean, the crazy theories online, Dave. 448 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 6: Mac are horrible. It just shows you that some people 449 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 6: have too much time on their hands, and they couldn't 450 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 6: They could not fathom that a single person would be 451 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 6: that evil to take on two children and convince them 452 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 6: at gunpoint to go down the hill and do as 453 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 6: they were told. He picked the perfect victims. I hate 454 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 6: to say that, but he picked two girls that were 455 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 6: still girls, and they were told by an adult man, 456 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 6: I got a gun, I'm gonna use it, go down here, 457 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 6: do what I tell you to do. And they bought 458 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 6: into it because of some bad digital camera footage that 459 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 6: they saw online. By the way, the people who come 460 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 6: up with these crazy conspiracies, they don't ever actually see evidence. 461 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 6: What they see is things online they don't even know 462 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 6: what they're watching online has been fixed by somebody else 463 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 6: who's messing with them. I'm shocked that we didn't hear 464 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 6: the defense throw up more of a you know, Keegan 465 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 6: Klein defense, the Ronald Logan thing. I'm surprised. I'm wondering, Nancy, 466 00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 6: And this is my question for you. Was the defense 467 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 6: laying groundwork so that, if convicted, Richard Allen could come 468 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 6: back and say, my defense didn't do what they should 469 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 6: have done. Here are some other avenues that should have 470 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 6: been explored, and they weren't. 471 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you're right. But I'm sure I got to 472 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 2: tell you something. I really have faith in this judge. 473 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 2: I do just listening to her demeanor on the bench, 474 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 2: the way she handled everything that happened from the very beginning, 475 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 2: all the pre trial motions, you name it. 476 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: She has been very consistent. Now, the law varies. 477 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 2: From jurisdiction of jurisdiction, state to state, but generally speaking, 478 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 2: one thing is true. All three of you please jump in. 479 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 2: If you have a sentilla of evidence that someone else 480 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 2: did the deed, you can bring on third party guilt. 481 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 2: For instance, Ron Logan, it was his property didn't he 482 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 2: lie about his alibi, Susan Hudricks. 483 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 3: He lied because he was on probation for drinking and 484 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 3: driving exactly. 485 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 2: So that to me, using the fact that he lied, 486 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 2: using the fact that it was his property, using the 487 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 2: fact that he has gone on to the hereafter and 488 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 2: cannot defend himself would have been a perfect capegoat. They 489 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 2: did not do that. They went with the odness theory. 490 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 2: Now to bring in a third party guilt theory, some 491 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 2: other dude did it. 492 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: You have to have some evidence. 493 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 3: Right after they brought it up again the other day 494 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 3: and yes, I kept talking. 495 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 2: About odenism, and everybody online was like, stop talking about it. 496 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 2: She's ruled out odenism. Like no, no, she's ruled it out. 497 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: But if they can get in facts to support it, 498 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 2: they can then. 499 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: Bring it in. 500 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,360 Speaker 2: What I'm saying is you can't say, Cheryl, well, I 501 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 2: heard about a child killer out in wy and maybe 502 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 2: he came to Indiana because it's the same mo. Maybe 503 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 2: it's him, all right, maybe it is Maybe little green 504 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 2: men from Mars did it too, and then beamed right 505 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 2: back up. Yes it's possible, but you have to lay 506 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 2: some factual foundation. And that was not laid for odinism, Nancy. 507 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 3: But they didn't give up. They tried again last week 508 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 3: and she said, for the thousandth time, no, unless there's proofs. 509 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 7: Of course, the jury was not never Nancy. 510 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 4: The two days that I was sitting there in court, 511 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 4: it was evident that this jury was sophisticated. They were 512 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 4: not in any way gonna be snowed by that defense. 513 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 4: They didn't have a choice but to drop it. Whether 514 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 4: the judge said they could bring it or not, they 515 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 4: weren't going to buy it. The second thing that I 516 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 4: noticed again when they didn't bring up ron Logan, it's because, 517 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 4: if you remember, the FBI even served a warrant, it 518 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 4: didn't pan out. They couldn't connect you. So, like you 519 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 4: used always tell me, follow the evidence, not the theory. 520 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 2: Okay, you know, I don't remember ever saying that, but 521 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 2: if you sounds really smart. So if you're gonna attribute 522 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: that to me, I'm really happy, Susan buckle your seatpeal. 523 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 2: People are already online screaming this was a setup. 524 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 5: Jesus lot of that's. 525 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 3: Who I just ran into Libby's. I've just ran into 526 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 3: Libby's favorite teacher, and I saw him in court one 527 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 3: day when the phone call was played, and he just 528 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 3: hugged me and said, don't I'm gonna cry right next 529 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 3: to me. So that's really what this is about. 530 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: It's like, so this is what I know about sentencing. Guys. 531 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 2: You know, in many, many jurisdictions, a murder charge is 532 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 2: a mandatory life sentence and you can then try to 533 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 2: get the death penalty or life without parole. 534 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: Okay, here, that's not true. 535 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 2: The sentence is anywhere from forty five to sixty five 536 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 2: years behind bars. There is an advisory sentence of fifty 537 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: five years. We know that the sentencing is set for 538 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 2: December twenty. We know at that time that the defense 539 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 2: is planning to bring on character, evidence of good character. 540 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 2: I can only imagine what is the state going to 541 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 2: bring on. I guess the heinous nature of the crimes 542 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 2: number one. But what do you think? 543 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 8: I think maybe they just play his voice again, they 544 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 8: played Libby. I know Nick mcleland. The last words out 545 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 8: of his mouth were maybe always wanted to solve crimes. 546 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 8: She did her own? 547 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: What about it? Cheryl? 548 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 4: I believe that this judge is going to give the 549 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 4: maximum because the prosecution is going to lay out that 550 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 4: a fourteen year old girl gave us the best evidence possible, 551 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 4: which was video and audio of her killer and with 552 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 4: her friend that don't leave me. 553 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 2: She didn't, So, Susan, has the death penalty ever been 554 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: on the table? 555 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: Does Indiana even have the death penalty? 556 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 3: Yes, Indiana does. They have been administered in a long time. 557 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 3: It was something to do with the medicines and the manufacturer. 558 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 3: It's never been on the table though I have several times, 559 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 3: and no it has not. 560 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 2: They do have the death penalty, but this is not 561 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 2: a death penalty case. 562 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 6: Hmm. 563 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: Okay, and let. 564 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 2: Me tell you if it hasn't been tried as a 565 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 2: death penalty, that's not an option at sentencing. When you're 566 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 2: trying a case is a death penalty case, you have 567 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 2: to quote Witherspoon the jury and question the girars about 568 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 2: their beliefs on the death penalty. That did not happen 569 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 2: in this case. This is not a death penalty case. However, 570 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 2: the judge can steal sentence to the maximum sentence. You know, 571 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 2: I'm very curious, guys, why is there so much hate online, 572 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 2: especially but about this case. What do you think, Sharon? 573 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: I mean, you and I have been under oh my goodness, 574 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 2: I thought they were going to drag me out of 575 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 2: Target the other day and put me on a stake 576 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 2: in burme Nancy. 577 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of people that are hiding 578 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 4: behind the keyboard number one. I don't think they really 579 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 4: believe he's not guilty. I think they're just doing it 580 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 4: to antagonize people and be hateful. And I told you before. 581 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 4: When you have somebody that has just held been on 582 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 4: making somebody miserable and hurting them, and they won't give 583 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 4: their real name, and they won't you know, have more 584 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 4: than two followers, they are baseless, faithless, factless cowards. And 585 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 4: for me, none of those people factor here. What factors 586 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 4: are the real people that have been fighting? Like you, you 587 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 4: sent me to Delphi before anybody had ever heard of Delphi. 588 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 4: I didn't know where it was that. I went to 589 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 4: Purdue for a while. So to me, there are people 590 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 4: that have been advocating for this family, like Susan Hendrix 591 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 4: that left her own family for a month. It has 592 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 4: been there every day. 593 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 2: Okay, now wait a minute, I want to I want 594 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 2: to say something follow up on what you're saying, Cheryl. Guys, 595 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 2: Susan left her family and Susan, your son. 596 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 5: What was he saying the. 597 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: Other day about murder? You tell me? 598 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 2: She's like, please, don't tell that to the other moms. 599 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 3: She said second grade and he said, mom, he has 600 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 3: a baby voice. 601 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 7: Still I love it. 602 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 3: And he just said, mom, guess what. My friend's mom 603 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 3: came in to talk, and she writes poetry books. And 604 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 3: I turned to my friend Henry, and I said, my 605 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 3: mom writes books. 606 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 7: And he said what kind of books? 607 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 3: And he said, don't tell anybody murder. And Henry said 608 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 3: to him, I think I'd like a murder book. I thought, 609 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, therapy's company. 610 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot more fun to read about than 611 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 2: in poetry, right, yeah, not gosh, oh gosh. 612 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 3: It's just every day I've been on speaker. 613 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 7: But I had to be here. I wanted to be here. 614 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 5: You know. 615 00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 2: It's been so full of raw emotion every single day, 616 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 2: the ups and the downs, the ups and the downs. 617 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 2: And I got to tell you, guys, when I saw 618 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 2: the victim's family in person again. 619 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: Last week when I was. 620 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 2: At the trial, their faces were just like stricken, kind 621 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 2: of like pinched. 622 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: And nothing had even happened. 623 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 2: Remember, Susan, it was first thing in the morning and 624 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 2: they were just you know, oh my heart, they just 625 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 2: looked raw, Susan, just raw. 626 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 3: But I saw their eyes light up when you were there. 627 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 3: You know what you signify, Nancy, not only a wonderful 628 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 3: person to them, but that their girls matter. 629 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 1: You know what we haven't talked about. 630 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 2: We haven't talked about Libby and Abbey. And I remember 631 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 2: Lucy and John David at this age and I just 632 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 2: cannot imagine imagine someone doing this to them. 633 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: I mean, Cheryl, you've raised a boy and a girl. 634 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 2: Remember that tender sweet age just before they turn into. 635 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: A full on crazy team. 636 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,280 Speaker 2: You know, it all happens when they're about sixteen, everything 637 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 2: goes haywire. But they're half little girl and half teen 638 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,479 Speaker 2: and everything is new and wonderful and they always smell 639 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 2: like bubblegum and strawberries and oh gosh. 640 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 5: You know, Cheryl, what. 641 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,919 Speaker 4: Are your thoughts, Nancy. I had a chance to hang 642 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 4: out with Kelsey and my daughter Caroline. And Caroline at 643 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 4: the time we first met, Kelsey was Libby's same age, 644 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 4: and I have watched them the last seven years become friends, 645 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 4: and every single time they hang out, I can't help 646 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 4: but think for kelseye. That's what it should be, you know, 647 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 4: the two of them laughing, the two of them joking, 648 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 4: the two of them wanting to go get lipstick and 649 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 4: bubble gum, at the same time about movies, talking about boys, 650 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 4: talking about what they would name their own babies. I've 651 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 4: watched this and I watched this friendship. But at the 652 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 4: same time every year fifteen, seventeen, nineteen, now Caroline's twenty one, 653 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 4: Libby should be twenty one. So I watched them and 654 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 4: I think that's what could have been, That's what. 655 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 7: Should happen to it. 656 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 3: I know I would at Libby's grave days right before 657 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 3: I heard that a verdict about and I put the 658 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,399 Speaker 3: bracelet down that to today to day, and then heard 659 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 3: verdict and I just was looking at her grades stage 660 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 3: with her faith on there, and it said everything she'd 661 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 3: loved to do. Short, that's over. These girls are not 662 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,479 Speaker 3: coming back. That DOWNPI will never be the same right now, 663 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,720 Speaker 3: should have the sidewalk. I'm looking across at a purple 664 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,320 Speaker 3: and peel living around a light pole and outside of 665 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 3: the courthouse where I spent day after day after day 666 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 3: after day. But it's not about me. It's about these families. 667 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 7: They go home. 668 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 3: Now they have a verdict, they don't have the laughter. 669 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 7: In the house. 670 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 3: That's forever gone, forever taken, you know, Dave Matt. 671 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 5: It just. 672 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 2: Now is the time I believe the victims' families need 673 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:20,240 Speaker 2: us the most because until the trial, First of all, 674 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 2: I had to get through the funeral, the shock of 675 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 2: what had, the shock of them being passed away, then 676 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 2: the shot of discovering they were murdered. You know, first 677 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 2: they were missing, then they find out they passed away, 678 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 2: Then they find out the cod was their throats were split, 679 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 2: they were murdered. 680 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: Then the search, the search for. 681 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,720 Speaker 2: The killer completely consumed. Remember they would come to Crime 682 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 2: Con every year, and we would do show after show 683 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 2: after show, trying and trying and trying to get closer 684 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,839 Speaker 2: and closer to who did this thing. Then there's a suspect, 685 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 2: then there's an arrest, Then there's the wait for the trial. 686 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: Then there's a trial. Now the trial is over. 687 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 2: Now what Now they are left with the reality that 688 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 2: the girls are gone and that empty house is forever 689 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 2: the mission is over, Dave Matt. 690 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 6: This is where the grief they'll actually be able to 691 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 6: mourn now, and this is you know, Nancy I told 692 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 6: a friend of mine, they're talking about the case, and 693 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 6: I said, you know, the one thing I got in 694 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,320 Speaker 6: this because we've been covering it since it happened, and 695 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 6: I said, the one thing I noticed in the families 696 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 6: is that they felt in you, Nancy, that they had 697 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 6: somebody that cared, because after a while, people get tired 698 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 6: of not hearing an answer, you know, because there was 699 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 6: no suspect. There was this question after question, and it's 700 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 6: like you were giving them that hope that this is 701 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 6: not going to go away. We will find who did this. 702 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 6: And then you mentioned the arrest and then all of 703 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,399 Speaker 6: the stuff that happened leading up to trial. And right now, 704 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 6: while we all cheer, you know what, the rest of 705 00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 6: us go on with our lives. But they go back 706 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 6: home just to a silent house. But you know, it's 707 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 6: not a victory for them. They lost Abby and Libby. 708 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 6: They lost two children who should be young adults now. 709 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 6: And all I could remember looking at their pictures is 710 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 6: when I would take my daughter Hannah to the roller 711 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 6: skating rink when she was that age and her friends, 712 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 6: and I'm looking at them and I'm thinking I would 713 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 6: I don't know how I would go on and that's 714 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 6: what they're now going to face with because the solution 715 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 6: has happened. The answer is there, the conviction has happened, 716 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 6: and after sentencing, to be honest with you, I mean, 717 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 6: if he serves consecutive sentences, he gets one hundred and 718 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 6: thirty years. Their daughters are still gone, their granddaughter's still gone, 719 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 6: and they're not coming back. 720 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:49,280 Speaker 2: Today is a day to sigh a sigh of relief. 721 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 2: The trial is over. Justice was served. And I remember 722 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 2: every time I would get a verdict, a guilty verdict 723 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 2: and a murder case, people thought, oh, where are you 724 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:06,960 Speaker 2: going to celebrate? Where are you going to go? It 725 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 2: was no celebration. I know that's hard for a lot 726 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 2: of people to understand. It's a sigh of relief. It's 727 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 2: not a time to celebrate and be giblant because you steal. 728 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 2: Everybody leaves that courtroom with a broken heart. But this 729 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 2: at least puts a band aid. Doesn't heal it. It 730 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 2: can never be healed, but at least, for now, anyway, 731 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:39,239 Speaker 2: a band aid on their hearts. Dave mac Cheryl McCollum, 732 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 2: Susan Henrix, Thank you, gals, I'll see you tomorrow. 733 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,280 Speaker 1: On Crime Stories, goodbye friends. 734 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 2: Thank you all for enjoying us today.