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Speaker 1: So Susan and I were on a walk as you

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Speaker 1: do every day every day, twice a day usually, but

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Speaker 1: we might we might not be on the same walk

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Speaker 1: twice a day because I walk the dog usually in

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Speaker 1: the morning, and then we do the walk later at night.

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Speaker 2: But as as we do, questions pop up. Okay, and

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Speaker 2: so I got another walking with Sue and sammy question

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Speaker 2: for you. Okay, I'll ask the question that I'll answer

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Speaker 2: the question for myself to give you both time to

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Speaker 2: come up with your answers. So we're walking down the

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Speaker 2: street and I walk by a beautiful plant and it's

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Speaker 2: one of my favorite smells in the world, which led

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Speaker 2: to Top five Smells in Your Life.

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Speaker 3: Hops five Smells. So here we go and Wilfredell's hand.

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Speaker 2: Exactly so, in no particular order, the plant I walk

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Speaker 2: by night jasmine, absolutely, Oh, I love it.

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Speaker 3: I love it so much. My cologne bread, fresh bread

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Speaker 3: being baked.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's a good one.

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Speaker 2: Susan makes this amazing oatmeal that are granola that makes

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Speaker 2: our entire house smell like oats and cinnamon and honey.

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Speaker 2: It's incredible. And then good old fashioned gasoline.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: Are some of my top five smells, so I throw

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Speaker 2: it back to you people loves Gasol's not.

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Speaker 3: Great for you, man, He's like, hang home. But I

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Speaker 3: like smell.

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Speaker 6: I literally insert this smell so we know to stay

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Speaker 6: away from this stuff.

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Speaker 3: So either one of you throwing it out there. What

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Speaker 3: are some of your favorite smells? Books?

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Speaker 6: Like a library, like you know, which I talked about

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Speaker 6: on this is actually like there's a vanilla smell that

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Speaker 6: comes out.

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Speaker 3: Of old books from the glue they used to bind.

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Speaker 3: So books.

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Speaker 6: I have a campfire, and I have a I have

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Speaker 6: a candle that's called a Knight in the woods. It's

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Speaker 6: just like it's got a couple of different tree flavors

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Speaker 6: in it, but it's mostly mostly just smells like campfire.

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Speaker 3: It's so yeah, And I.

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Speaker 6: Guess coffee, oh, just like knowing yeah. And then probably vanilla,

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Speaker 6: which is a little up there with you know, kind

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Speaker 6: of the same the same thing as books. But yeah,

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Speaker 6: I like a nice distant vanilla, not like too strong,

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Speaker 6: not like overdone, but like when you know that there's

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Speaker 6: like a nice vanilla flavor in the air.

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Speaker 3: Gosh, what a bread is a good one? Man, I've

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Speaker 3: never thought about it, but bread is a smell.

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Speaker 2: Bread like you walk into a place like a bakery

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Speaker 2: where they're just baking bread.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I just want to wrap myself up in it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so good.

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Speaker 5: Danielle cool water cologne Cool, I've never even heard of that.

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Speaker 5: What is what from the nineties? It's it is boyfriend

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Speaker 5: smell of every high school boy of the nineties, and

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Speaker 5: it takes me right back to Michael Goldman.

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Speaker 3: Like the same thing with old spice.

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Speaker 4: That's so funny. Old spice will know.

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Speaker 3: But it's date night, Pickles is coming out. Let's put

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Speaker 3: on the old spice, old spy, She says, the same thing.

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Speaker 3: It like smells like high.

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Speaker 5: School, high school boyfriends, high school boyfriends. I love water

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Speaker 5: clone similarly to the gasoline. When I was a kid,

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Speaker 5: I really love the smell of gasoline. But now like

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Speaker 5: the markers, like the smell of like a those like smell.

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Speaker 3: Deeply and you wake up thirty seconds later.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that smell.

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Speaker 5: I think like anything pine like Christmas, the smell of Christmas. Yes,

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Speaker 5: something piney tree, Yeah, Christmas smell.

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Speaker 3: I totally agree.

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Speaker 5: Bread is really good, but also I'd like to throw

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Speaker 5: it in the mix of the smell of bacon, bacon cooking.

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Speaker 5: You know, like the smell of breakfast. There's there's something

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Speaker 5: about the mix of coffee toast bacon that like, I

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Speaker 5: just call it diner smell of diner diner.

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Speaker 6: If there was a candle that was diner candle, that

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Speaker 6: wouldn't be a bad call.

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Speaker 5: It's a great idea. We could we could have a chubby,

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Speaker 5: chubby candle if I could bottle the smell. The stinky

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Speaker 5: smell of my children's feet right now, really pre peubescent, yeah,

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Speaker 5: stinky kid feet.

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Speaker 6: I'm telling you all that, like loving your kids smells,

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Speaker 6: are not being bothered by your kid smells is gone by?

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Speaker 5: I know by not actually I know.

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Speaker 6: I was like suddenly I did not want Indy to

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Speaker 6: be anywhere like yes, until then I was like no,

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Speaker 6: it's fine. You get used to it and you deal

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Speaker 6: with or you fall in love with it or whatever.

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Speaker 6: But now it's like like, literally anytime he smells, I'm like, dude,

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Speaker 6: figure this out, I know, because it's just what is

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Speaker 6: it about the stinky feet?

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Speaker 3: What does it even smell?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 3: Can you relate it to anything?

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Speaker 6: It's just human intimacy, man, It's just being close to

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Speaker 6: somebody that you love so much that you're yeah, I

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Speaker 6: don't know.

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Speaker 5: I mean, honestly, Adler's farts when he was a baby,

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Speaker 5: I was like, these are delicious, these are this is

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Speaker 5: smell like India.

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Speaker 3: The top of India's head was like one of my

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Speaker 3: you know, because.

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Speaker 6: It's just like these weird because it's you're never that

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Speaker 6: close with another human and the pheromones it's your own.

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Speaker 5: Like I could if they lined twenty kids up, I'd

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Speaker 5: be able to pick out which one was Addler by

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Speaker 5: the smell of his little feet, right.

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Speaker 6: And you know, it's it's chemical and biological because like

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Speaker 6: if I was ever around another kid like this is

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Speaker 6: I'm going to vomit, Like I cannot be in this.

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Speaker 6: But my kid, I was like totally, I never have

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Speaker 6: a problem with any of it, Like it's totally.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, that would have to be online. Just Aller

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Speaker 5: and Keaton's stinky feet just.

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Speaker 3: Dipping cool water.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to give I'd like to give honorable mention

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Speaker 2: to mushrooms, onions, and.

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Speaker 3: Garlic cook Oh yeah, great comedy.

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Speaker 6: Maybe the real question should remove all food considered.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about food.

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Speaker 6: It's like just exactly, yeah, you can never do so

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Speaker 6: I feel like it maybe maybe an addendum should be

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Speaker 6: that it's only non food, so then.

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Speaker 2: If I have to take bread off the list, it

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Speaker 2: would instantly be trumped by W D.

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Speaker 6: Forty oh oh sawdust cut sawdust like.

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Speaker 2: Hey yeah, freshly cut hay is another one that.

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Speaker 4: I really like so much.

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Speaker 5: Food. I don't like that. And you know what I

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Speaker 5: don't like. A smell I don't like. I don't like

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Speaker 5: that smell of rain on the asphalt that some people love,

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Speaker 5: you know, people like disprocusting. You know what else I

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Speaker 5: don't like the people like.

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Speaker 6: I don't know the bottom five smells Top five cars

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Speaker 6: like new car.

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Speaker 5: Smell, Get it out of here, the wave that smell.

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Speaker 3: Out, My god, I love new car smell.

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Speaker 5: Replace it with my kid's stinky feet.

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Speaker 3: This is stinky feet teenage boy car smell.

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Speaker 5: And I did know teenage. I think by teenage i'll

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Speaker 5: be over it. I will not like it. It's something

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Speaker 5: about the fact.

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Speaker 3: That they cool. He smells like starburst and cool water.

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Speaker 6: You don't haven't smelled since the nineties c K one ladies,

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Speaker 6: I still probably like that.

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Speaker 5: Girls wore that all through the nineties, and the boys

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Speaker 5: were all K one.

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Speaker 4: You car.

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Speaker 6: Like of all of the perfumes and colognes and stuff,

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Speaker 6: shaving cream barbasol shaving cream. And I don't use it

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Speaker 6: that much because I don't know now I should.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, but I love that smell.

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Speaker 4: Yeah that's a good one.

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Speaker 3: Good Smeuth.

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Speaker 5: Welcome to Bobby Turr. I'm Danielle Fishel, I'm right or Strong,

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Speaker 5: and I'm Will Fordell was like, what are we supposed

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Speaker 5: to do.

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Speaker 4: The show?

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Speaker 5: That's in our endless attempt to recreate every season's writer's room,

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Speaker 5: we have been able to connect with so many men

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Speaker 5: and women who helped craft the show right at its

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Speaker 5: heart on every page of its script, whether they were

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Speaker 5: there with us from the start, joined in the Michael

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Speaker 5: exit or the Michael return, or maybe just contributed an

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Speaker 5: episode from outside the staff. Some of our best podcasts

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Speaker 5: have been with these incredible creatives, and this week is

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Speaker 5: no different. He joined the show in season five, just

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Speaker 5: barely sneaking in an episode at the end, the eventually

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Speaker 5: prohibited tale of teen drinking if you can't be with

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Speaker 5: the one you love quite and then then, after getting

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Speaker 5: Corey and Sean blitzed, he wrote two in season six,

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Speaker 5: including the recently recapped You're Married you're dead. So if

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Speaker 5: you were wondering which writer liked messing with Corey and Tapanga,

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Speaker 5: we found him. His middle initial H most likely stands

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Speaker 5: for heartbreak. He'd write two in the final season, sticking

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Speaker 5: around till the bitter end. But it was his prior

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Speaker 5: work experience that is even more impressive, especially probably to

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Speaker 5: Will Laverne and Shirley Bosom Buddies nine to five, Give

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Speaker 5: me a Break, a different World, come Crash, Prince of

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Speaker 5: bel Air, and Reba.

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Speaker 1: Oh come on, and I'm talking about any of these

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Speaker 1: in the day God.

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Speaker 5: Also, he worked with a murderer, at least according to

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Speaker 5: a civil suit. And so we are thrilled to welcome

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Speaker 5: to Pod Meets World writer and producer Gary H. Miller. Yea,

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Speaker 5: so good to see you.

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Speaker 4: It's amazing to see you guys. So on the strike

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Speaker 4: line and then yeah, I think it was twenty.

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Speaker 5: Two years party.

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Speaker 2: Actually no, Gary, you and I I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you remember I ran to you at Target.

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Speaker 4: You had a Target. We exchanged numbers, right, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: we'll call each other.

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Speaker 3: And that never never, that.

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Speaker 4: Is saying that guy. But you know I would have

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Speaker 4: loved to listen.

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Speaker 5: So fun. Well we are so excited to talk to you.

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Speaker 5: We know that you were an integral part of seasons

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Speaker 5: five through seven, and we are excited to talk to

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Speaker 5: you about that. But this is the first interview where

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Speaker 5: we know, right off the bat we are nowhere near

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Speaker 5: the most fascinating actors that you have worked with, because

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Speaker 5: we know you worked on a show called First and

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Speaker 5: Ten with O. J. Simpson. Oh my goodness, can you

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Speaker 5: please tell us what that was like?

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Speaker 4: You ready to rock the stats?

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Speaker 5: Always you know us always always.

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Speaker 4: Well, Okay, God, these are such long anecdotes, and I

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Speaker 4: know we have limited time, and I certainly want to

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Speaker 4: get to the drinking episode, but let's sit back and

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Speaker 4: have a little drink and talk about mister Oja click

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Speaker 4: backstory before I even mentioned it. Uh So, I used

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Speaker 4: to be a school teacher in New York City. I

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Speaker 4: taught school for eight years and I taught in the

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Speaker 4: school in Queens and on my lunch hour I would jog,

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Speaker 4: which included going across the Laguardi Airport was right near

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Speaker 4: the school. And then one day I see him, O J. Simpson,

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Speaker 4: who was like the biggest star you know from the

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Speaker 4: Hurts com the America loved him and I saw him

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Speaker 4: going to the terminal and you know, I'm a stupid

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Speaker 4: person from Brooklyn Schoolowly School team tour and I said, oh,

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Speaker 4: Jay oja, you know, like like a ten year old,

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Speaker 4: and he looked at me. He gave me that OJ smile. Right.

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Speaker 4: I ran back to school and into the teacher's room

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Speaker 4: and I said, I just saw the juice, you know,

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Speaker 4: And I was so excited. Yah. Well, now cut to

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Speaker 4: some years later and I'm in now living out here

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Speaker 4: with my youngest daughter who was born with the impairment.

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Speaker 4: So we had taken it to a doctor in a

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Speaker 4: building in Westwood, and we were waiting at the valet

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Speaker 4: and there he was again, and like a ferrari pulls

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Speaker 4: up and right before he gets in, he looks at

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Speaker 4: me and says, is that your little girl? I said yeah.

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Speaker 4: She says, she's so pretty, She's beautiful. I said thank you.

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Speaker 4: I said, oh my god. Again O J. Simpson my

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Speaker 4: second meeting. So then segue to I take over the

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Speaker 4: show first and ten. It was kind of floundering, and

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Speaker 4: I made it more realistic. I ate a big business, steroids,

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Speaker 4: you know, real football stuff. I wrote O. J. Simpson

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Speaker 4: into the show and we became kind of close. I

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Speaker 4: used to watch Monday night football in his house. You

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Speaker 4: watch it. The Heisman trophy is right over.

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Speaker 5: There, and oh, my gosh, man.

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Speaker 4: And we flew We spent the weekend in Kansas City together,

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Speaker 4: the two of us. We went to see the Chiefs plane.

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Speaker 4: The Chief played the Raiders, and we flew on the

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Speaker 4: Raiders plane. And my god, We've got so many funny

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Speaker 4: stories about that. How funny funny in hindsight. Right, I'll

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Speaker 4: get there too. I'm talking real fash. We're in Kansas

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Speaker 4: City and you know, everybody loves the guy. And we

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Speaker 4: were in the marll one day and the father comes

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Speaker 4: over his son, and the father's crying and he says,

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Speaker 4: why is your boy crying? Why are you crying? Sir?

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Speaker 4: He says, that's my boy. His name the boys he

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Speaker 4: named Moji. This was America's. Yeah, we all know the story.

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Speaker 4: And uh on a. On the flight back, I have

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Speaker 4: hit the I was in the worst turbulence I had

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Speaker 4: ever been into my And I'm talking. I'm on the

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Speaker 4: plane with the Raiders, right, and they're getting their barf

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Speaker 4: bigs right, two hundred and sixty pounds linemen and they're

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Speaker 4: crossing themselves and it looks like we're going down because

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Speaker 4: we're dropping like ten thousand feet. And I turned to

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Speaker 4: look at OJ and he's just sitting there with a

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Speaker 4: smile of this.

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Speaker 6: Nothing's scary, the calm of a psychopathic.

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Speaker 1: Exa.

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Speaker 4: So here's a great you see, you got me started

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Speaker 4: on this, So here's a great anecdote. So when first

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Speaker 4: and ten they're negotiating, as you guys know about negotiations

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Speaker 4: with actors, the producer comes to me. He says, look, Gary,

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Speaker 4: we're having trouble OJ. We're not sure we can make

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Speaker 4: this deal. Can you write him out of the show?

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Speaker 4: I said, yes, I wrote him into the show. I

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Speaker 4: guess I could write him out of the show, which

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Speaker 4: wasn't I didn't like that idea. But then Oja comes

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Speaker 4: to me by himself. He says, you think you could

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Speaker 4: write a show like this for me, a different show?

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Speaker 4: And I said, sure, so let me write gat. We'll

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Speaker 4: make it. We'll make it a baseball show. And I

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Speaker 4: went and I pitched it with him, and then we

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Speaker 4: get a go on the pilot. It was easy to

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Speaker 4: pitch over because I'm pitching and I don't even think

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Speaker 4: the executive she's listening to me. She's just staring at OJ.

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Speaker 4: And I'm thinking in my head, as you know, if

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Speaker 4: you pitched. But he says, I'm going, well, I got

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Speaker 4: to shift gears and got else and I finished, and

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Speaker 4: I think this is awful. And she says, this is

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Speaker 4: a project we must do. And so I get me

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Speaker 4: elevator with OJ and I said, this is the easiest thing.

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Speaker 4: I have a soul. I said, this is great. He says,

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Speaker 4: that's good. A little while later, I get a call

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Speaker 4: from his lawyer. His attorney skipped, and he says, listen

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Speaker 4: to OJ. Would like co writing credit on the pilot. Oh,

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Speaker 4: I said, oh really, I said, okay. I said, tell

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Speaker 4: him he only has to work with me about two

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Speaker 4: hours a day, and I'll do that. I'll do the

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Speaker 4: brunt of it. I'll do most of it. He is no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: you don't understand. He doesn't actually want to do He

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Speaker 4: just wants co creating credit for the pilot. I said why.

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Speaker 4: He said, because his mother would be very proud of

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Speaker 4: him if he was in the writer's guild. I said,

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Speaker 4: she'd be proud. He's in the Hall of Fame. Is

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Speaker 4: proud enough of him?

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Speaker 5: Is that not enough.

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Speaker 4: The really so skip to the attorney says, look, you

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Speaker 4: either agreed this, but this deal was done. It's going

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Speaker 4: to blow up. I said, okay, I'll agree, but you

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Speaker 4: tell this to Oj that I'll give him half writing

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Speaker 4: credit on a script that I write. If he goes

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Speaker 4: to the Canton Hall of Fame and tell them half

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Speaker 4: that yard in his mind that I killed that deal.

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Speaker 4: He then got a deal with NBC. They sent him

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Speaker 4: to New York to be an on field reporter. I got.

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Speaker 4: I got him a little going away gift. Was the

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Speaker 4: last time I had talked to him. And then one

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Speaker 4: day I was in Florida on vacation, playing golf, and

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Speaker 4: I got the call from my friend saying, do you

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Speaker 4: hear about Nicole Simpson? I said, I was on the

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Speaker 4: golf course most of the day she was found dead.

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Speaker 4: I said, oh no, this is before cell phones. I said,

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Speaker 4: I don't have OJ's number. You got you gotta listen,

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Speaker 4: you gotta get me OJ's number. I got to call

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Speaker 4: call him and he said, no, you don't understand. They

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Speaker 4: think he did it. And then it just got you know,

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Speaker 4: as surreal as it could possibly be. Wow. Some time ago,

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Speaker 4: I wrote an article for a mandatory magazine called OJ

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Speaker 4: and Me, which is basically what I just told you,

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Speaker 4: you know, in more terms. And uh, I mean I

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Speaker 4: was subpoenaed for the the second trial also, so I

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Speaker 4: wrote the article about this. What are telling you that?

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Speaker 4: This woman in the comment says, how dare you associate

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Speaker 4: with that murderer as a lady. This was before I

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Speaker 4: knew he was a murderer. Yeah, exactly, yea murder And

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Speaker 4: then anyway, there's my longer.

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Speaker 3: Wow, we did not expect that.

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Speaker 6: We were like, oh yeah, we talked on set a

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Speaker 6: few times, and you know, that's incredible.

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Speaker 4: And there's other stuff that I won't even go and

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Speaker 4: it's got nothing to do about the horrific results of

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Speaker 4: all that. But you know, just because when the lawyers

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Speaker 4: were interviewing me as a witness, they wanted to know

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Speaker 4: was the aggressive and all that? And I said, you

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Speaker 4: know what, I was wrangling real football players. It was

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Speaker 4: the least aggressive out of any of them. And I

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Speaker 4: had John Tusak, who would break anything that came close

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Speaker 4: to you. You know, I got it. John Tusack anecdotes too.

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Speaker 4: But let's.

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Speaker 5: Well, I want we want to talk to you about

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Speaker 5: some of the other shows you worked on too, because

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Speaker 5: you have truly written on some of TV's most iconic shows.

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Speaker 5: I mean your first script being Laverne and Shirley, which

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Speaker 5: is quite a debut. How did that become your first gig?

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Speaker 4: We're going to need to make this a five part

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Speaker 4: so at least I told you I was a school

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Speaker 4: teacher in New York, hears in and not loving it,

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Speaker 4: not loving the job, and not loving the pay, which

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Speaker 4: is always low for teachers. Great, great contributors to our

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Speaker 4: culture that they are. But so my wife said, hey,

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Speaker 4: you're funny. Why don't you start writing scripts? What do

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Speaker 4: I know about scripts? You know? But I went to

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Speaker 4: the local library, took out a book, showed me the format,

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Speaker 4: and I wrote a mass script. Right, I'll make a

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Speaker 4: very long story shorter. I started writing spects for everything.

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Speaker 4: I started sending letters. Remember no, no, no enginet, no

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Speaker 4: way of contacting anybody. And if you guys, remember, if

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Speaker 4: you're old enough to remember, you can't. You can't get

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Speaker 4: into seeing anybody if you you know some kinds. Even

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Speaker 4: if you are somebody, you can't get in. So I

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Speaker 4: started writing letters, and I also started hanging out the

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Speaker 4: improv in New York giving freak jokes to comics, and

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Speaker 4: they let me know what producers were coming in from

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Speaker 4: the West Coast. So it would be kind of like

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Speaker 4: I wait outside the improv and when the producers are leaving,

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Speaker 4: I'd run after them my script in my hand and

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Speaker 4: like a BA time pass and a relay race get

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Speaker 4: in their hands and they can't read this. You know,

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Speaker 4: you got to sign a waiver. And one guy, Tom Patrick,

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Speaker 4: he said, look, I'll send you a waives. Send me

380
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Speaker 4: a script. I did. It was a mash. That was

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Speaker 4: my first speck was a mash. He said, this is

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Speaker 4: not bad. Get yourself an agent. So now I look

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Speaker 4: up agent in the phone book, remember book, and I

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Speaker 4: send her the script. She says, this is pretty good.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to send it to the producer. So again

386
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Speaker 4: I'm ignorant. I don't know anything about show business. I

387
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Speaker 4: told my wife Karen, I said, I think we're going

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Speaker 4: to Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: Because sold our home.

390
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Speaker 4: And yeah, by this time we were we had moved

391
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Speaker 4: way away, out away from New York in western New Jersey.

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Speaker 4: Were living in the woods and the mailboxes across the

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Speaker 4: road and I go every day for the for the

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Speaker 4: letter of saying you know, come come to Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: Oh wait, I have to ask, do you remember what

396
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Speaker 3: your mash was about? Do you remember the spec?

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Speaker 4: The title was called Mistress Fever. Okay, it was about

398
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Speaker 4: Frank's wife was coming for a visit and whether it's

399
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Speaker 4: you know, and they didn't know what to do with

400
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Speaker 4: what was the miss uh? What was? Yeah? And so

401
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,760
Speaker 4: they they concocted that she had some kind of illness

402
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Speaker 4: and they try to keep her away from the wife.

403
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Speaker 4: And I remember it. I was great, it's pretty mediocre.

404
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 4: Uh so uh. I then got very frustrated. Uh. I

405
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Speaker 4: start churning out spec scripts for threes Company, Welcome Back

406
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 4: to uh, Barney Miller, all the shows of that day, Yeah,

407
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 4: with no results in getting very disheartened, and I start

408
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Speaker 4: writing letters Fred Silvan ABC. He said, we need new blood,

409
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Speaker 4: we need new writer. I said, well, you need to writers.

410
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Speaker 4: I'm the guy for you, right, send it out, Fred Silvan, Hollywood, California.

411
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Speaker 4: And they must get ten thousand unsolicited scripts and letters.

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Speaker 4: One day, God calls me from ABC. He said, I

413
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Speaker 4: don't know why Fred wants me to do this, because

414
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Speaker 4: he's not he's leaving, he's going to MBC. But he

415
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 4: wants you to write a script for la Verna Surely

416
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 4: or Happy Days. Those are our two big shows, and

417
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Speaker 4: we'll see that the producers read it, says okay. So

418
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Speaker 4: I write ola Verna Surely and send it in and

419
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Speaker 4: then I start writing and I get nothing. Nothing six

420
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Speaker 4: months ago. By now, I go to that mailbox and

421
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 4: the mailbox says, leave me longer. Stop. So I start

422
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Speaker 4: writing letters to Gary Marshall. I'm funny, and I start

423
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Speaker 4: writing funny letters and okay, it's another deep dour. So

424
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Speaker 4: I mentioned that my daughter was born with impairment, and

425
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Speaker 4: I was very despondent. At this time. She was an infant.

426
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Speaker 4: I was holding her in my arms and she had seizures.

427
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 4: That was quite a problem. I'm holding her in my arms.

428
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Speaker 4: Get this. You couldn't write it. I'm watching Laverne and Sheryold.

429
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Speaker 4: It's a Tuesday night, right, she said, in my arms.

430
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Speaker 4: She's having a seizure. We called the doctor and he says, look,

431
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Speaker 4: if she has another seizure, you got to bring it

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Speaker 4: into the hospital tomorrow. Okay. And I go off to

433
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Speaker 4: work in New York, which is sixty miles away, and

434
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Speaker 4: all day I'm expecting the call from my wife to

435
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 4: say the baby had a seizure. You got to come

436
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 4: to the hospital. So the assistant principal comes into the gym.

437
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 4: I had a gin full of one hundred maniac kids

438
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 4: running around, and she says, mister Miller, it's a call

439
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 4: for you. I said, I know, I know, you know,

440
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 4: and I you know, sombrely walked to get the phone,

441
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,640
Speaker 4: thickets my wife and it's Gary Marshall's office.

442
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, telling.

443
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 4: Me they want me to come be a writer. Wow.

444
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,959
Speaker 3: They called your school. Gary Marshall's office called your school.

445
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 7: Well yeah, oh wow, wow, so did you did you

446
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 7: then go to the set of Laverne and Shirley, which

447
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 7: is arguably one of the most famous and contentious sets

448
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 7: in the history of Hollywood.

449
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 4: I didn't know what to do. I mean, I knew

450
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 4: I had to go now, mind you, civil servant, eight

451
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 4: years in the system, and I was known as crazy

452
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 4: mister Miller because I was always be writing whenever I could,

453
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 4: you know, and they say, what are you doing? I said, well,

454
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 4: one day I'm gonna make it, you know that kind

455
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 4: of stuff. And when it happened, it was, like, you know,

456
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 4: pretty unbelievable and I remember one teacher, Charlie rebellion. He

457
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 4: stops me in the whole. Now, mind you, this is

458
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 4: back in the seventh These and kids didn't just pass

459
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 4: from one cliss together. You took your life in your

460
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 4: hands if you were in the hallway during Yeah, and

461
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 4: and so Charlie grabs me. He says, Garry that eight

462
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 4: years in the system, you can retire in nine more years.

463
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 4: What are you doing, it, said Charlie, I'm going to

464
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 4: be working on the number one show in all of television.

465
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 5: Yeah right, Oh, oh my gosh, did your daughter have

466
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 5: another seizure that day? Did Did she also end up

467
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 5: at the hospital or no?

468
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 4: No, no, oh thank god she's still to this day.

469
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 4: I mean, my daughter is jack when you guys know.

470
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 5: I know, I know, I just wanted it that day.

471
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 5: I needed that story to wrap up. Are you expecting

472
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 5: that phone call? You didn't get that phone call that day.

473
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 4: So you're going to talk about ing and gang whatever

474
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,959
Speaker 4: it is. So it was tempered, you know, because there

475
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 4: was still issue with our child, you know, which is

476
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 4: always issue but a lot of us deal with, you know,

477
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 4: personal issues. But that story and so you know, years

478
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 4: later I said to one of the supervising producers at

479
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 4: the time, who became a good friend of mine, of

480
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 4: Phil Mischkin. I said, how did I get hired? All

481
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 4: these writers in our city, Los Angeles, A vying to

482
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 4: be the next writer on vern S Shirley? Why did

483
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 4: he hire me? And Gary Marshall said, give me the

484
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 4: school teacher who writes me to funny letters.

485
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 5: Wow, didn't make a reference to the script, right, letters right?

486
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 4: And every time I saw Gary, and I did see him,

487
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 4: we didn't develop any kind of relationship, but I would

488
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 4: see him from time to time in the town and

489
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,479
Speaker 4: every time I'd say to thank you, thank you, thank you.

490
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,920
Speaker 4: And as I got later into my career, I would say,

491
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 4: I think exactly.

492
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 5: Another show we wanted to talk to you about was

493
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 5: Bosom Buddies. It has come up before on this podcast

494
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 5: in regards to just being one of the perfect Tom Hanks,

495
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 5: perfect sitcom acting. Did you get to work with him

496
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 5: directly at all when he was that green?

497
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh yeah to it. Look, let's not give

498
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 4: Peter a short shrift. These two were great. These two

499
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 4: were great together. It's not sad Peter went on to

500
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 4: have a good career, but he kind of became a

501
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 4: little bit of a joke because one guy's Tom Hanks,

502
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 4: one Boot's buddies becomes Tom Hanks, and the other becomes

503
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 4: Peter Scaur and I certainly have different types of careers,

504
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 4: but they were great together. They were a lot of

505
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 4: those you guys, when the stuff hit the stage, they

506
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 4: made it better. This was really impressed me. You know,

507
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 4: I would write something and we would write something as writers,

508
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 4: and these guys just took it to another level. And

509
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 4: it's a great feeling when that happens, because you know

510
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 4: a lot of times it doesn't. A lot of times

511
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 4: it goes the other way. And they were terrific. And

512
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 4: you know, they they were new, they they were so fresh,

513
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 4: they were so young, but he knew them. You know.

514
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 4: Tom and I we had a Bruce Springsteen relationship and

515
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 4: that we were both crazy fans. I mean Bruce Springsteen. Uh.

516
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 4: And I used to have the old morel called cassette

517
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 4: recorder and Tom would come into my office to listen

518
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 4: to my Springsteen tapes. Right, And we used to have

519
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 4: this thing where there's a song called Jungle In by

520
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 4: Bruce Springsteen and there's a certain lyric and Tom and

521
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 4: I used to see who could say this lyric the quickest,

522
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 4: and the lyric is I'll probably budge it befoot girls

523
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 4: sitting on the hood of the Dodge, drinking warm beer

524
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 4: in summer night's rain, you know, and we try to

525
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 4: say it faster than the other. So you know, lo

526
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 4: and behold. He goes on to become one of Bruce

527
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 4: Springsteen's best friends. I see him on a yacht with

528
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 4: Bruce Springsteen and everybody else, you know what I mean.

529
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 4: And I'm waiting online for ten hours to get on

530
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 4: the book. But Tom, when ABC let them go, you know,

531
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 4: we only let we were only offer to sea.

532
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

533
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: That was one of the shows that was criminally canceled earlier.

534
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, canceled over today to have a tough time. I mean,

535
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 4: guys dressing and drinking, Ye're gonna do that. But we

536
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 4: knew we were funny, and we were hit funny. We

537
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,959
Speaker 4: were referenced funny, you know what I mean. We had

538
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 4: a run where we wrentioned somebody in the script and

539
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 4: they would die for some reason next week or something

540
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 4: like that. But we really prided ourselves on being very hip,

541
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 4: and to this day we still have a kind of

542
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 4: a cult audience in one of them, and Peter, I mean,

543
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 4: you know Peter. When I was consulting producer on Riba,

544
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 4: there was a part for Peter, and I made sure

545
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 4: that Peter got it. So Peter did a Riba and uh,

546
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 4: he was in the same scene with my son Max,

547
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 4: who had dialogue invent scene. So it was really a

548
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 4: true for me.

549
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 5: You also made stops over at nine to five, give

550
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 5: me a Break and a different World, and then you

551
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 5: jumped over to a sitcom starring an award winning rapper

552
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 5: who had never acted on TV before, with the Fresh

553
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 5: Prince of bel Air. Did you like was it obvious

554
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 5: right from the beginning he was going to be a

555
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 5: sitcom star?

556
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, you could, Yes, you can just see it.

557
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 4: Although we had a very interesting relationship of the two seasons.

558
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 5: That I was Ewan will Smith.

559
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 4: When I took over the show, he kind of had

560
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 4: his own way all the time, and I said, look,

561
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 4: I'm not like that, I said, so you know he said,

562
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 4: and I think he respected that. And I told them

563
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 4: things like, look, you're telegraphing your joke because you don't

564
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 4: you don't have confidence, and so you're touching the actor

565
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 4: and the scene with you, right before the joke. It's

566
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 4: a thing you do. How do you do that? You know?

567
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 4: I know the joke is coming next. You should you

568
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 4: know stuff like that. You know that we discussed. I

569
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 4: made him sit and watch. He hated this, the old

570
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 4: Sogeant Bilko series. You'll never get rich with Phil Silvis,

571
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 4: I said, watch this guy. Watch this guy driving episode,

572
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 4: no matter how flimsy the storyline is. It's like a

573
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 4: moving train and he takes everybody on the train with

574
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 4: him and you get to the end. I said, that's

575
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 4: the kind of energy we need in twenty two minutes,

576
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 4: because slow time in a twenty two minute show is deadly.

577
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,959
Speaker 4: It really not to say you can't have your moments right,

578
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 4: you know what I mean? You just need and you

579
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 4: know when you edit the show too, that's what you

580
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 4: look for. Again, we're in a twenty two minute play beginning, middle,

581
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 4: and end. I mean that's why so many of your

582
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 4: discussions and your listeners discussions about well, what happened to

583
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 4: this and what happened to that? And how can they

584
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 4: leave this happen? Like what's happen? But as you know,

585
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 4: the process is hard and half hours. Well, I don't

586
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 4: know why we call him half hours. The twenty two

587
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 4: minutes are harder than hours. And if you think about it,

588
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 4: the big, the big great sitcoms that did their finales

589
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 4: is an hour. It kind of bombed.

590
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, well the Seinfeld hour wasn't good. I think the

591
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 8: Cheers hour wasn't good. So what happens when I take

592
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 8: over Fresh Prince? They told me we want you to

593
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 8: write an hour opening season show.

594
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 4: Wha man, right? What I did? And you know, it

595
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 4: was pretty good and had the funniest scene I've ever

596
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 4: written was in that. It was called the bungee jump scene,

597
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 4: and that seemed to work. But yeah, I can tell

598
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 4: you a lot about Fresh Prince about will I don't know,

599
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 4: I might need an attorney.

600
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 5: We don't want you to need an attorney, that's for sure.

601
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 5: And then you enter the Boy Meets World universe in

602
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 5: season five with I mean, which might is a little

603
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 5: bit of a step down from everything else you had

604
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 5: been working on. How did you end up in the

605
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 5: Boy Meets World universe?

606
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 4: Well? Odd, it was odd, I mean I did. I

607
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 4: was showing the Fresh Prince of Bellia just I guess

608
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 4: the same time you guys were on the air right

609
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 4: ninety four, You're on the air, right, so we were

610
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 4: on concurrently and you know, that's got its clout. And

611
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 4: then I went from there. I had an overall deal

612
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 4: at twentieth and and then I was contacted by an

613
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 4: executive at Disney, David Himmelfarm.

614
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember the name of sor and.

615
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 4: I don't remember how a conversation went, but it was

616
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 4: in the fifth season when there was a little bit

617
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 4: of turmoil. There was a change in the guard that

618
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 4: eventually happened, of course, as you know, and that's when

619
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 4: they signed me in as a consulting producer. So I

620
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 4: came aboard in the fifth season kind of just after

621
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 4: the fifth season that started, and you know, Michael hadn't

622
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 4: been there yet, and then he took over shortly after

623
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 4: I got there, and then that adjustment had to be

624
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 4: made in terms of dealing with Michael Jacobs. And I

625
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 4: found the staff really nice, great friends. We were close knit.

626
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 4: I met friends that I still have to this day.

627
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 4: Jeff Minel is my closest friend. You know, what a

628
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 4: wonderful guy he is. I became terrific friends with Bob Tishler,

629
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 4: a great guy. We wound up writing together, but the

630
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 4: last twenty years. We have a book on Amazon we

631
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 4: wrote together, you Bo, Yeah, romantic comedy Cold Impossible. And

632
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 4: when we lost him suddenly last springtime, it was devastating

633
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 4: and I still feel his loss every day. He's such

634
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 4: a great friend. But that's all boy meets world stuff,

635
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 4: you know, Like I said, no things happen in life

636
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 4: and you meet different people. And Alison Gibson she to

637
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 4: work with ar on Riba, so you know, you know works.

638
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, those connections. You meet, meet with people and some

639
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 5: of them are in your life forever.

640
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 4: But it's interesting, Danielle that you mentioned, you know, it

641
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 4: being a step down. It was different because most of

642
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 4: the staff people in Bombie's world were you young, or

643
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 4: they were kind of Michael disciples in a sense, you know.

644
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 4: And so now suddenly Bob Tishla who was also a showrunner,

645
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 4: and myself to show runners. Now we're on staff, you know,

646
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 4: and possibly with different attitudes than mostly everybody else. Not

647
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:38,919
Speaker 4: that they we don't want to do good work, of course,

648
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 4: that's always the goal, but you know, it was it

649
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 4: was an interesting dynamic. Bob and I kind of had

650
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 4: a little bit of spartico there how to deal with

651
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 4: with things right. Wow. M hm.

652
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 5: So had you seen Boy Meets World before you became

653
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 5: a consulting producer on it? Had you did they give

654
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 5: you VHS tapes to help you prep? Did they sell

655
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,280
Speaker 5: you VHS tapes of the show, because we got ours.

656
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 4: They gave me drawings and I try.

657
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 5: To okay a comic book aramatic perfect.

658
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 4: Well, you know what, I don't remember what I usually

659
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 4: do if I if I get hired on a show

660
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 4: that I don't know about, or I from off for

661
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 4: a show I don't know about it. You know, watch

662
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 4: ten episodes, seven episodes of last season. I did that

663
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 4: with a Different World too. I hadn't been watching a

664
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 4: Different World and you kind of cram and you're watching

665
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 4: and you get a feel for it. But yours is

666
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 4: so different because you guys are growing up. You know,

667
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 4: every year, it's different. You're different people that it's said to,

668
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 4: different values, different objects of what you want to do,

669
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 4: andationships change and all that. So it's a very interesting show.

670
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,760
Speaker 4: And I am very pleased with some of the episodes

671
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 4: that I wrote for the show. Really, I think we

672
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 4: can get to talk to it sometime later. Yeah, Chet

673
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 4: Dying episode is one of my favorites.

674
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 5: That we haven't gotten to that episode yet, so we

675
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 5: have not seen it.

676
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 3: Cast give rid of Blake, you can't, he's too good.

677
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 5: So in your first season, season five, you write an

678
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 5: episode late in the show order, the controversial and somewhat banned,

679
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 5: if you can't be with the one you love? Do

680
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 5: you remember the genesis of that very kind of adult theme?

681
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 5: Was it your idea?

682
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 4: Okay, here we go. First of all, I'm sorry we're

683
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 4: all losing out on residuals on that episode. Right. Ironically,

684
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 4: my first on air Laverne Shirley script that aired on

685
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 4: television was called what Do You Do with a Drunken Salor?

686
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 4: And it was about it was a kind of a

687
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 4: serious Laverne and Shirley where her brother Bobby played by

688
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 4: Ed Begley Jr. Comes home on leave and he's got

689
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 4: a drinking problem. So it was in my pedigree through

690
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 4: those kinds of stories. And I've also gravitated in my career.

691
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 4: I've done some real what they call the special episode,

692
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 4: some serious stuff, especially Different World. I did a racial

693
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 4: violence episode will when I took over with Fresh Prince.

694
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 4: I said, we joke about it him not having a father,

695
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 4: let's bring his father back. We brought his.

696
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 2: Father backs, like one of the most famous episodes.

697
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, Mareen, and so I kind of gravitate towards some

698
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 4: serious themes. I figured that at Corey's age, young kid

699
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 4: boy like that, being the feelings he had about the

700
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 4: Panguin being you know, separated from her, would lead to

701
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 4: some experimentation of the kind, especially since he was considered

702
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 4: depressing and everybody was on his case and so on

703
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 4: and so forth. So I can't exactly remember if it

704
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 4: was my idea. It probably was because of my history

705
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 4: with that, but I can tell you that this episode

706
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 4: is a story of two acts acts acts. The first

707
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 4: act it's pretty true to my draft. I have my draft.

708
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 4: I love to send it to you. Second goes off

709
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 4: into Michael Jacob's land. Let me give you an example. I

710
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 4: listened to your your discussion. Will you're not in the

711
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 4: episode now in my script, you're in three scenes and

712
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 4: in both acts. And not only are you in both acts,

713
00:39:54,280 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 4: you're in the climactic act with uh Sean and Jack

714
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 4: and Corey in the apartment. Jack enlightens Sean about the predisposition,

715
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 4: the genetical predisciplined Dad and how serious it is, and

716
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 4: that he hit Jack's mother and that's what turns Sean.

717
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 4: The girls aren't weren't even in that scene in my set.

718
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 4: So the heat that I might take because Sean throws

719
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 4: engines against the wall was never in my script. I

720
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 4: wouldn't put it into my script, and I cringe every

721
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 4: time I see it. You feel about it, but it

722
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 4: upsets me because my name's on that script, you know.

723
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of shoving in that episode that

724
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 4: wasn't in my draft, So I don't know where the

725
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 4: pension for shoving people comes from. So that's one thing

726
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 4: I certainly wanted to point out. The Other thing is

727
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 4: that the family's more involved in promoting. There's a scene

728
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 4: before Corey goes to the party where Alan basically says,

729
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 4: you know you are depressing. Everybody does something about it,

730
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 4: you know, like a phone, and that's that's when Corey

731
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 4: goes and gets the alcohol and shows up. There's also

732
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 4: another family scene after the cop car shows up, where

733
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 4: Amy's worried they're out late and Alan says, don't don't

734
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,959
Speaker 4: worry that we told them to have finding's having fun.

735
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 4: Let them be, and then they get the calls so,

736
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 4: and then the second half goes from where it was.

737
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 4: But also in the second halfter in my draft, I

738
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,439
Speaker 4: have Feeney being much more instrumental in helping Sean. Post

739
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 4: to Sean, he gives him a card for doctor to

740
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 4: call Doctor Kramer call him, he can help you with this,

741
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 4: and then after Sean is enlightened by Jack, Sean eventually

742
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 4: does go for help. And the last scene is I

743
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 4: have it written. I look at the script some time later,

744
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 4: not the next day. All those things about lock of this,

745
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 4: why would he he's drunk one day. He's not drunk

746
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 4: in that saying no, this is a passion. Yeah, it's

747
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 4: real hard to show that, you know, if you could

748
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 4: write it in the script right, unless you say sometime later. Yea.

749
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 4: So those are some of the broad strokes about that episode.

750
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 6: Wow, yeah, I remember our feeling was like this should

751
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,479
Speaker 6: have been a two parter, or you know, he's trying

752
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 6: to cramp so much into it. Yeah, So it sounds

753
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 6: like the Angela factor was like layered in after your

754
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 6: draft and.

755
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 3: Just just trying to do too much so much.

756
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 4: Also, her reaction, I couldn't stand her reaction if I

757
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 4: were writing that scene and you shoved, you would hear

758
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 4: about it right there in the moment. She wouldn't, you know,

759
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 4: slink away and and and cower and say late, I

760
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 4: still love you. When you don't drink, she tells you

761
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 4: often know, on certain terms is what she would do.

762
00:42:55,640 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 4: So again, those are choices. I'm not blaming anybody. I'm

763
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 4: just revealing the way what happened.

764
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 2: Now, how much say in the room did you have

765
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 2: if there was something that you know, from your original

766
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 2: draft you felt very strongly about. Is that something that

767
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: if you fought for it would stay in or was

768
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 2: it kind of, hey, this is we're changing it, and

769
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: that's just the way it is. I mean, we all

770
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 2: know it's Michael Show at the end of the day,

771
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: and he gets to do what he wants, and that's

772
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: what one of the things you get when you're in

773
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 2: the big chair is you just that's that's how it works.

774
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 2: I mean, So, is it something that if you had

775
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 2: gone in and really fought for it, it would have changed,

776
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 2: or is it kind of like, no, this is this

777
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 2: is where we're taking I don't remember.

778
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 4: I certainly know the shoving scene really bothered me, and

779
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 4: I don't recall if I expressed that or not I

780
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 4: might have. I certainly never help myself back when I

781
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 4: wanted to express myself. But as you said, it wasn't

782
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 4: my show right at the show. I've been a show

783
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 4: on it, so I know both sides of it. I

784
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 4: know that side, I know this side, and I know

785
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 4: the writer's side, and you know all the uh pressure

786
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 4: you get from from executives and studios and all of

787
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 4: that stuff. However, it bothered me, and obviously it didn't

788
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 4: bother anybody else enough that because it stayed in and

789
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 4: sometimes I wonder, I said, why wasn't there a network

790
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 4: note about that? I mean, why why was that condoned? Right?

791
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 4: Of course you couldn't. You'd have a hard time doing

792
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 4: that scene today.

793
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, I mean right right.

794
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 4: How do you feel?

795
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I remember.

796
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 6: It all just felt too much like that that that

797
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 6: that scene in particular, was like, oh, we're going to

798
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 6: compress this revelation about his dad and you know, basically

799
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 6: make Sean an angry, alcoholic, you know, abusive. I think

800
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 6: the I guess for me, if you're going to do that,

801
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 6: it just didn't never felt like the consequences were resolved

802
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 6: in a way that empowered Angela. It was always like, oh,

803
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 6: Angela getting hurt was a way for Sean to change

804
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 6: and for him to come to a realization, as opposed

805
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 6: for for it to be a moment of like, oh

806
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 6: Sean needs you know, if you're going to hurt somebody,

807
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 6: have her stand up for herself a little bit, or

808
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 6: have her affect the change and Sean as opposed to

809
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 6: just kind of being a prop.

810
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 4: You know.

811
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 6: Unfortunately, Angela, especially at that point in the series, she

812
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 6: didn't have much of a character.

813
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 3: She didn't have much of a voice. I mean, now

814
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 3: we're seeing in.

815
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 6: The season six stuff there is you know, they've developed

816
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,760
Speaker 6: her and now Corey finally talks to her, for instance,

817
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,359
Speaker 6: But back then, you know, she was just kind of

818
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 6: brought in. Her first couple episodes were great, but then

819
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 6: I feel like the rest of season five she does

820
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 6: not have enough of a presence. You know that it's

821
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 6: not written to so yeah, so that bothers me, but I.

822
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 4: Agree with you it should have been a more elaborate

823
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 4: episode to you know, to two episodes, to say the least,

824
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 4: because it kind of gives you know, I have an

825
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 4: award Yere for the episode. So anytime you tackle something

826
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 4: like that. Sometimes you'll get an award for it because

827
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 4: there is some good stuff in that obviously, Yeah, but

828
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 4: it gives it short shrift. It's just right, you know,

829
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 4: and that's what's wrong. Sometimes its sitcom is one episode.

830
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 4: Oh it wasn't as year cut off last week, and

831
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 4: that was years back, right, right, Well, we got to

832
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 4: carry these things through, you know what I mean.

833
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 2: Well, there was no streaming at the time, so weeks

834
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 2: would go by, if not months would go by, you'd

835
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 2: forget what happened.

836
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 3: You know, hey, two seasons ago, Like.

837
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: We always joke about mash where it's like, at one

838
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: point everybody's wife was named Louise, and then there was

839
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: change to Mildred, and Sean had sisters and a brother

840
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 2: and this, and so when the idea of streaming didn't

841
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: even exist, even the idea.

842
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 3: Of we can watch these back to back to back

843
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 3: to back to back, you're writing it and you kind

844
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 3: of okay, well, I'm kind of forgetting some.

845
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 2: Of the details of the stuff we did before, and

846
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: you kind of move on with it for what you

847
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 2: need that week. And now that we're streaming all the

848
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:57,879
Speaker 2: old shows, it's like.

849
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 3: Wow, oh, okay, there's not a whole lot of consents and.

850
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 5: Seeing some of these well, and when we interviewed when

851
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 5: we had the bro Meats World guys on, and I

852
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 5: remember being very feeling, very poignant when they pointed out

853
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 5: that what it felt like to see the only woman

854
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 5: of color on the show be the one treated in

855
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 5: that way. Yeah, and how that comes across to the audience,

856
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 5: and how that adds a layer to it that certainly

857
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 5: I had never thought of, But hearing them say it

858
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 5: was like, yeah, absolutely, what kind of a message does

859
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 5: that send to the people watching? So I can see,

860
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 5: of course why that would bother you. And it's very interesting.

861
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 5: Thank you for providing that perspective for us too, because

862
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 5: we have had you know, a lot of writers on

863
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 5: and we've often talked about how the writer whose name

864
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 5: is on the script, they are always almost like, oh, well,

865
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 5: that really funny thing you're talking about, Oh that you

866
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 5: don't give me all the credit for it. It was

867
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 5: a group effort. But it also can happen in the

868
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 5: reverse way, where your name is on a script and

869
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 5: something is in there that you do not like, that

870
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 5: you're not proud of, that you actually completely do not

871
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 5: agree with, and yet people want to then give it

872
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 5: to you and say, well, you're the one who wrote it,

873
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 5: and we haven't really had that perspective on the show before.

874
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 5: So thank you for one your honesty and telling us

875
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 5: about that and you know, bringing that up for us

876
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,400
Speaker 5: because it's a perspective we have not experienced on the

877
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 5: show before.

878
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 4: Okay, thank you. Brubby's world Guy's name me. Yeah, and

879
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:32,439
Speaker 4: we had a really good time. And why what you're

880
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 4: What they said about that moment with Angela really hits

881
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 4: home with me again, Yeah, because part of what they

882
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:44,399
Speaker 4: said to me was, as two young black men, how

883
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 4: a lot of the episodes I wrote, especially in a

884
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 4: different world, really affected them and their families and their community.

885
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 4: You know, thank me.

886
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 5: Right in a positive way, Yeah, thank me for the

887
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 5: messages in those episodes.

888
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 4: And then you know, for them to think, what Gary,

889
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 4: what is he doing to this platform? You know? So, yeah,

890
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,399
Speaker 4: you have no voice, and I guess this is kind

891
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 4: of a voice, so a little bit of rebuttal right exactly.

892
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 5: So then in season six, we just watched your episode,

893
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 5: your script of that season, You're Married, You're Dead. I

894
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 5: am assuming that that was maybe a script that had

895
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 5: it been for anything other than for a Family show

896
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 5: on Friday nights probably would have taken place in a

897
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 5: strip club. Is that correct?

898
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 4: That's exactly right, you know. And again I'm guilty, uh wrong,

899
00:49:54,000 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 4: wrong arena for that show. But again, I mean, he's

900
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 4: a college kid. I know these kids do, they go

901
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 4: to strip club. So it was a strip club in

902
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 4: my draft. It got changed. In fact, in my draft,

903
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 4: I think it said the women are as scantily clad

904
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 4: as network standards and practices will allow. Yeah, caviat I

905
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 4: put in there, and you know, I got changed at

906
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 4: club club odges and that by the end that girls

907
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,959
Speaker 4: were dressing like nuns. It wasn't It was.

908
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 3: Like, who do is light right exactly?

909
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 4: You talk about the change in an episode. Now, I'm

910
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 4: not defending an episode, so not like I would defend

911
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 4: the Drinking Show or anything else. I know, it's kind

912
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 4: of fun. But the whole Eric Jack Rachel storyline was

913
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 4: completely known my script. They were vying for her attention,

914
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 4: and they hired a College of buff college guy to

915
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 4: woo Rachel because their their theory was she's more susceptible

916
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 4: on the rebound. So we get this cut of dumper

917
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 4: and then one of us makes in that was that storyline,

918
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 4: how they how they wound up in club. I don't remember.

919
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 6: That's fine because I actually really like the idea of

920
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 6: having the sort of male version of eye Candy coming

921
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 6: in because then you have like a storyline, yeah you have,

922
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 6: and how they would think that, that's how she would

923
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 6: think by you know, we're just gonna.

924
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 5: Here's a question. Did you create the tushy dance?

925
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 4: You know, I watched the episode and I laughed, I said,

926
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 4: this is a cute episode. You know. Sometimes we'll get

927
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 4: you know, too analytical, too serious, and forget what we're

928
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 4: doing here. You know. Yeah, and I and I listened

929
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 4: to you guys enough to know there's a lot of

930
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 4: times when the comedy is suspect in a sense, but

931
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,399
Speaker 4: you know it is common. You do need to do

932
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 4: that otherwise you have dramas so bal it's always hard

933
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 4: to do the balance. You know, you have a special episode.

934
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 3: And again, yeah, we struggle with that same thing.

935
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 2: We struggle with try to not sometimes we take it

936
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 2: too seriously. We know we take it too seriously, but

937
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 2: then you know, it's what we're doing, is we're analyzing

938
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,879
Speaker 2: a show. That's the point of kind of what we're doing.

939
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 5: We also have said several times we do not reference

940
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 5: enough how unbelievably difficult it is to churn out twenty

941
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 5: two scripts or sometimes twenty four scripts at the breakneck

942
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 5: speed that you guys are doing it, and receiving notes

943
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 5: from network and standards and practices and your actors, who

944
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 5: are you know, having opinions about things like you know,

945
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 5: you're not going to please everybody, and not every one

946
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 5: of them is going to be, oh wow, love this

947
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 5: a plus. You know, sometimes you're just going to have

948
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 5: an episode that exists and that is going to be

949
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 5: what it is.

950
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: Sometimes Henry Winkler is literally jumping the shark.

951
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 4: Listen, and you don't know where the notes are coming from. Yeah,

952
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,280
Speaker 4: and again, I'll talk at the school. I got nothing

953
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 4: to lose anymore. When we went on Rieba and by

954
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 4: the way, a little history on Riva. Alison was writing

955
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 4: that pilot.

956
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 5: While she was on our show as Gibson.

957
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:39,720
Speaker 4: Alice Gibson. We became friends. She was in the office

958
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 4: next to me and she was telling me about it,

959
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 4: and then when she went to pilot on it, I

960
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 4: did a little work with her on it. She made

961
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 4: a little punch and stuff like that, so I worked

962
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 4: with her, and then she eventually hired me on the show.

963
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 4: And Reba McIntyre's husband at the time was Narvel Blackstock.

964
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 4: If you want to create a villain's name, there is.

965
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 3: Trying to steal the sun.

966
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 4: He used to be I think the keyboard player in

967
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,439
Speaker 4: a band or the bass player, right, but no more.

968
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 4: Now he's her husband, and he's the first guy to

969
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 4: give notes after a table ry wow. And and me,

970
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 4: as a veteran writer, been to all the wars since

971
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy nine. I said, we're taking notes from the

972
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 4: keyboard time scripts. And then way at the end, when

973
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 4: it got really ugly, they called me in for a

974
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 4: meeting and Narvel black Socks said to me, you know

975
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 4: that episode of football episode that we all hate something.

976
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 4: I said yeah. He said, well, I can't believe you

977
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 4: could go home and sleep at night and know my

978
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 4: wife had to stay on stage and say that that stuff,

979
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 4: that embarrassing stuff like that. And I said, Narvel, let

980
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 4: me explain something to you. It wasn't a good episode.

981
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 4: But sometimes we spend more time on a lousy episode

982
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 4: than we do in a good episode because we can't

983
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 4: find it, you know. So it's painstaking and it doesn't

984
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 4: work that well. But getting back to what you mentioned about,

985
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,320
Speaker 4: when you're doing twenty two a season, you're going to

986
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 4: have some clunkers. Everybody's got to understand that, and that's

987
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 4: part of the deal. That's part of the experience.

988
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,240
Speaker 3: And that's for every show in the history of Hollywood.

989
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,479
Speaker 2: There's no sense like it's like finding a boxer who's

990
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 2: fought for twelve years and never lost.

991
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 3: It doesn't exist.

992
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 2: You have good episodes and bad episodes, and your favorite

993
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: show in the history of the world, whatever it is,

994
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 2: has had bad episodes too, So it's just the way

995
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 2: it works.

996
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, So no spoilers. We already heard a spoiler about

997
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 5: Chet dying because well might it.

998
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:52,959
Speaker 4: That was on TV.

999
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, but we just.

1000
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 5: Haven't watched it since it was on It's a spoiler

1001
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 5: for us because we have not seen it since the nineties.

1002
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 5: Writers never watched it, so this it will be writers

1003
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:05,879
Speaker 5: first time seeing it. It'll be Will and I only

1004
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 5: are second time seeing it ever.

1005
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 4: Give I can give you a little tease for it.

1006
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 5: Okay, Okay, it's called Will have a Good Time then, right, Okay.

1007
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,399
Speaker 4: A lot of a lot of my scripts, I'll use

1008
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 4: song lyrics. That's from the.

1009
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 5: Best song Big.

1010
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 4: Harry Chapman fan and have a lot of her lyrics. Actually,

1011
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 4: the alcohol shows was from Crosby Stow's Nash and Young

1012
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 4: loved the one You're with. Yeah, so I told this

1013
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,280
Speaker 4: to you right on the strike line. Maybe you don't recall.

1014
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 4: We'll remember at the table read for the for the

1015
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 4: check dying show writer wasn't there. He couldn't make it.

1016
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 4: He was sick for some reason. He wasn't at the table,

1017
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 4: and Matt Nelson read write his part. And I love

1018
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 4: Matt Nelson, great guy, rest in peace, but not right

1019
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:09,720
Speaker 4: or strong? And and and the script tanked at the table.

1020
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 4: It did, And I knew this is a damn good script,

1021
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 4: you know, and said I was experienced enough to know

1022
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 4: that it was still a good script. And I didn't

1023
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 4: need ABC executives to tell me whether it's good or not.

1024
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 4: I know. And I said, it's it's not a good

1025
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 4: experience where you don't have the lead guy in the show.

1026
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 4: Not right exactly script. And so I'll leave it at

1027
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 4: that because I will save what Michael Jacobs said right

1028
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,439
Speaker 4: after the read and in the room with everybody there.

1029
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 3: How's that for a TOI, Oh, yeah.

1030
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 4: He held up the script and said, I know what's

1031
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 4: wrong with this, and I can fix I was sitting

1032
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 4: right next to him and instead of saying, you know right,

1033
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 4: it couldn't be here today, So you know, so that's

1034
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 4: the kind of stuff that you know comes with the

1035
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 4: territory and write into your credit when we went up

1036
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 4: and started making changes, and you said to Michael, I

1037
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 4: really liked what was here before back. Yeah, and and

1038
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:31,960
Speaker 4: again that's I think I wrote five episodes for the show,

1039
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 4: but that's by far my favorite. I think Rachel has

1040
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 4: a much more significant role as a person in that script,

1041
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 4: and she normally has, although she is still a sex object.

1042
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 4: That's that's the mantle that that we bear. But but anyway,

1043
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 4: that's what we can talk about that when we talk about.

1044
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 5: You mentioned that you you knew you have kind of

1045
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 5: reputation for writing these very kind of poignant, heavier Yeah.

1046
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 5: Did you recognize it, yeah, very special episodes. Did you

1047
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 5: recognize it at the time? And where do you think

1048
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 5: that comes from with you?

1049
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 4: I don't know because I really pride myself and this

1050
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 4: may sound egotistical and somewhat cocky, but I've always felt

1051
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 4: like I'm the funniest guy in any room I'm in

1052
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 4: uh huh, and I write real funny stuff. But at

1053
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 4: the same time I've been able to, you know, go

1054
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 4: into those areas again with the parameters of a sitcom

1055
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 4: and deal with really, really hard issues. A racial violence

1056
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 4: episode I wrote for Different World couldn't even air today

1057
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 4: because of what the content is, the things that are

1058
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 4: said that we don't say anymore, you know, And it

1059
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 4: was as controversial as an episode could be. I'm very

1060
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 4: proud of it. And there used to be a I

1061
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 4: think he was a doctor professor at Harvard or or Yale,

1062
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 4: doctor Alvin Grussan, and he basically was the spokesperson for

1063
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 4: the black community for want of a better description. And

1064
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 4: one script I wrote about, which is about a restricted

1065
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 4: country club, again a Different World, one of our characters

1066
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 4: was asked to join a white club and his son

1067
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 4: had a problem with it, and it was about tokenism

1068
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 4: and all that stuff, right, and he said, this is

1069
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 4: one of the hardest hitting episodes on race I've ever read.

1070
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 4: I hope it's well accepted. So that's the kind of

1071
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 4: thing that you know, I liked, But at the same time,

1072
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 4: I go work right, want of those accolades, but you know,

1073
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 4: they're good to be good, and they're satisfying, and sometimes

1074
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 4: they're more meaningful than writing a great joke. Yeah, well,

1075
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 4: a great joke, a great joe.

1076
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 5: What do you think, speak of jokes? What do you

1077
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 5: think gives you more satisfaction getting a laugh from the

1078
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 5: audience or getting a laugh from the writer's room.

1079
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 4: Oh, the audience were too beat up in the writer's room.

1080
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 4: There's nothing coming out of the writer's room that you

1081
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 4: can really apply to anything else. It's we're all worn out.

1082
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 4: I think you know. There's there's other stuff going on

1083
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:27,840
Speaker 4: in the writer's room. There's this competition. There's joke anger,

1084
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 4: but a great joke when you write a great line.

1085
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:37,439
Speaker 4: I love great lines. I thought I had written down

1086
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,440
Speaker 4: something that Eric said in the episode that he's not in.

1087
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 5: From your script, that he wasn't But.

1088
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:47,680
Speaker 4: You know, I don't seem to have it.

1089
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 3: I can't wait to read that draft though.

1090
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 4: You can see what I'm talking about. We can rename

1091
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 4: it a Tale of two Acts, because.

1092
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:00,120
Speaker 5: We would love that.

1093
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 4: It certainly is so.

1094
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 2: I have I have a question for you, then, with

1095
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 2: all the work you've done, is there and not saying

1096
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 2: to take anything away from any room you've been in.

1097
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 2: But when you look back, what do you think was

1098
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 2: the funniest writer's room you've ever been involved in.

1099
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 4: I love the Boy Meets World people I work with,

1100
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:21,439
Speaker 4: I really do, not saying that because it's your show,

1101
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 4: but I think Bliz and Buddies writers room was so tough.

1102
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 4: Guys would get up and cry. I mean we were

1103
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 4: so brutal with each other. But there was just ah

1104
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 4: with some magical comedy coming at it. Yeah, and I

1105
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 4: had to do. Chris Thompson created it and Chris has

1106
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 4: gone too. He was a dear friend of mine and uh,

1107
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 4: you know he sets the tone for what the show

1108
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 4: show should be. Uh, but Boy Meets World is close.

1109
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 4: I had a good room on a fresh print, a

1110
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 4: different world was a little bit more serious. Give me

1111
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 4: a break. So so that stuff. So I'd say Bus

1112
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 4: and Buddies and then then.

1113
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 5: You guys, Wow, that's a good company to be in.

1114
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 4: I think you guys are been blessed by some really

1115
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 4: good writing and yeah, at a time some not so.

1116
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 5: You mentioned your dear friendship with Bob Tishler, and you

1117
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 5: mentioned the book. You guys wrote a book called Impossible

1118
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 5: and unfortunately, as you also mentioned, we lost Bob last year,

1119
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 5: so we will not have the opportunity to have him

1120
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 5: on our podcast. So we wanted to ask you, as

1121
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 5: a dear friend of his, what would you like people

1122
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 5: to know about Bob?

1123
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 4: Well, I wish I was prepared for this. You know,

1124
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 4: you guys have been on a while with this podcast,

1125
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 4: and Bob and I were always planning to come on together,

1126
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 4: and you know, because we had some great stories, and

1127
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:08,200
Speaker 4: we probably had more courage together to tell some of

1128
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 4: those stories because you know, certain people aren't gonna like

1129
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 4: those stories. But anyway, but Bob, Bob was a wonderful

1130
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 4: human being. He was giving, he was caring. I'll give

1131
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 4: you one example that Bob Tisher did on Board this World. Okay,

1132
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 4: there was a pilot written by two of our young writers.

1133
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 4: He stuck up for these two riders whose pilot was

1134
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,440
Speaker 4: being co opted by another source. And I was standing

1135
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 4: there and saw him do this, and it was in

1136
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 4: that moment my respect for Bob's sword. I said, this

1137
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 4: is this is a guy, you know, because he's just

1138
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 4: a decent human being and a great writer. You know, Bob.

1139
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:57,120
Speaker 4: Bob produced Saurday Night Live. He was a writer. He's

1140
01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 4: got a great pedigree at and you know, I guess

1141
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 4: we were. We were joined at the hip hop world

1142
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 4: because we were two of the older guys. We were

1143
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 4: two former showrunners, and now we're thrust into this this

1144
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 4: very particular set of circumstances in terms of the creative

1145
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,960
Speaker 4: aspects of the show. And uh, you know, we we bonded.

1146
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 4: And then of course, in harder times as we got older,

1147
01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 4: and you know, there's ages in the industry, we wrote out.

1148
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 4: We wrote scripts and screenplays and pilots and pitched here

1149
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 4: and there, you know, and then eventually we wrote our

1150
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 4: book and it didn't make any money. But he was

1151
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,880
Speaker 4: a great guy. And when I got really sick, he

1152
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 4: was there for me. And when he got really sick,

1153
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 4: I tried to be there as best I could for him.

1154
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 4: But you know, lost a great friend.

1155
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sorry for your loss.

1156
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 2: Well, we we often talk about one of our biggest

1157
01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 2: regrets is not realizing are being able to to see

1158
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 2: the talent that we had writing for us at the time,

1159
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 2: and to be able to sit down and talk to

1160
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 2: you all about I mean again, Danielle will come on

1161
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 2: and you know, reading your resume and I'm just sitting

1162
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 2: there going, I can't believe I didn't get I would

1163
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 2: sit there and would have peppered you with questions about

1164
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 2: Laverne and Shirley and all stuff. And we just didn't know.

1165
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 2: We were young and wrapped up in ourselves.

1166
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 5: And IMDb didn't exist. We didn't we didn't know to

1167
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 5: ask for your CV.

1168
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so sorry that we didn't have more respect

1169
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,000
Speaker 2: for the men and women that were actually putting the

1170
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 2: words in our mouth, because what a staff we had,

1171
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 2: and we just we didn't know.

1172
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 4: Everybody has their own story, you know, mine, as I said,

1173
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 4: it's kind of like kind of cinderellaish and the sends

1174
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 4: and Kermit Defer goes to Hollywood. You know, I grew

1175
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 4: up a working class kid in Brooklyn and the last

1176
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 4: thing ever in my mind was that I would one

1177
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:57,880
Speaker 4: day be doing this, you know. Yeah that so that

1178
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 4: that's you know, that's the nature of it all. And

1179
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 4: same thing goes with it for you guys. You know,

1180
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 4: you all have individual stories and and things happen and

1181
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 4: things that life takes many turns. I mean, I'm going

1182
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 4: to be seventy seven on Saturday.

1183
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 5: Wow, Happy birth Happy birthday.

1184
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 4: So I guess I'm one of those guys who said

1185
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 4: I've seen it all and yet I haven't seen anything.

1186
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:28,120
Speaker 5: Well, here we are, thirty years later, still talking about

1187
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:29,400
Speaker 5: That's World.

1188
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 4: That's the most amazing book. I know it's thirty year

1189
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 4: because the last season in February. Last season, my youngest child, Alexander's,

1190
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 4: and she just turned twenty five. Yeah, there's a good barometer.

1191
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 3: For how Man.

1192
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. What do you think is the reason why

1193
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 5: Boy Meets World still resonates with all these generations.

1194
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 4: I've got to give Michael this props there for keeping

1195
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 4: that show live for all those seasons. You know, that's

1196
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 4: no small feet, and of course the creative talents that

1197
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 4: were involved in working the storylines and the episodes and

1198
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 4: the arts, but it's mostly you, guys. You cannot substitute talent.

1199
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,519
Speaker 4: You can't substitute for talent and likability. And I'm really

1200
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:28,360
Speaker 4: stressing likability. Are all likable characters. People loved you, People

1201
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 4: are rooted for you, People became invested in you. And

1202
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 4: that's good because that's good because it allows the audience

1203
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 4: to escape and to feel something else and feel and

1204
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 4: I think that's the magic of it. And you know,

1205
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 4: you know, writing is great. You know, it's hard, and

1206
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 4: good writing is wonderful. God, look at the stuff that's

1207
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 4: on today in terms of what's wonderful writing, but great casting. Boy,

1208
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 4: you just can't you can't beat it. And that's what

1209
01:08:57,160 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 4: happened on this show. And Danielle, you know, I listened

1210
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 4: to the first podcast and what you went through. But

1211
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 4: thank goodness that the negative part of it didn't happen.

1212
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 4: And look what happened to you and.

1213
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 5: You became an icon so exactly, I know.

1214
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 4: And the other side of it is it could have

1215
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 4: gone south. It could have gone the other way.

1216
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I very easily could have been let go. And

1217
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 5: I that show changed my life. And I've you know,

1218
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 5: I certainly every single week I was there up until

1219
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 5: about season midway through season six, every single week I

1220
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 5: was there, it was like, this is the greatest thing

1221
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 5: that's ever Like, Okay, how much this.

1222
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 4: There's another interesting dynamic to what you're doing now is

1223
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,600
Speaker 4: you're now adults with your own grown up lives, and

1224
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 4: back then you were kids and and and so I

1225
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 4: think probably while your podcast is so popular, aside from

1226
01:09:56,960 --> 01:10:01,479
Speaker 4: the show itself, is you you you three? And and

1227
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 4: how you've changed and what your lives are like. And

1228
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 4: you know, it's almost looking at your own kids and saying, well, yeah,

1229
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:09,960
Speaker 4: and they's succeptful doing things, and so on and so forth.

1230
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 4: So there's there's added elements to to all this. So

1231
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 4: I don't think Boys World could be a pigeonholed as

1232
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 4: a show. I think it's more of a of a thing,

1233
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 4: of a lifestyle in and of itself going on.

1234
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 5: It's its own You're right, it's its own organism.

1235
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 3: It's a cultural phenom of some it definitely goes beyond Yeah,

1236
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:38,720
Speaker 3: I like that.

1237
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:40,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I got that.

1238
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 5: Gary. Thank you so much for being here with us,

1239
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:48,559
Speaker 5: for joining us. You're we could listen to your stories forever.

1240
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,600
Speaker 5: We appreciate your perspective, We appreciate you coming on and

1241
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 5: spending your time with us, and I appreciate you for

1242
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:58,400
Speaker 5: sharing all that stuff about Bob too. And not being

1243
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:01,800
Speaker 5: able to have him on is going to be really

1244
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 5: high up on our list of regrets of this show

1245
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 5: that we didn't have him on sooner and then we

1246
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,960
Speaker 5: missed the opportunity. So thank you for sharing with us

1247
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:14,360
Speaker 5: a little bit about him, and your book Impossible that

1248
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 5: you wrote with him is available. I think you can

1249
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 5: get it on Amazon, So if anybody's interested in reading that,

1250
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:20,760
Speaker 5: you can you can find that.

1251
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 4: Thank you, Gary, it's problems. I guess I'll speak to

1252
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 4: you guys soon about.

1253
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 5: About the Chat episode.

1254
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1255
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:31,639
Speaker 3: Chat, Yeah, we got to know what's going on.

1256
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 5: I know we haven't seen that episode yet, so it's

1257
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 5: hard for us to talk about it before. But we

1258
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 5: can have you back on when that episode comes around

1259
01:11:37,479 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 5: so that we can we can get the behind the

1260
01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 5: scenes scoop on that episode as well.

1261
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 4: Boiler Alert is a hospital?

1262
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 5: Oh god, is mister Turner still there?

1263
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 3: One character after another sharing rooms?

1264
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 4: Nice?

1265
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 5: Well, thank you Gary. We'll have you back to talk

1266
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 5: about that. To see you by.

1267
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,640
Speaker 3: Oh man, we gotta have another lunch. We gotta have

1268
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 3: a lunch.

1269
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:07,879
Speaker 5: A lunch with Gary.

1270
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1271
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 3: I had that.

1272
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 6: Experience meeting him on the on the strike line. It

1273
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:18,360
Speaker 6: was really revelatory, just because I'd never talked to Gary

1274
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 6: when we were back back on the show and there

1275
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 6: was really kind of if anything there was. I thought

1276
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:28,639
Speaker 6: he was like, not not really a writer. I thought

1277
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,679
Speaker 6: he was more like a I got somehow the story

1278
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,720
Speaker 6: got down to me that like Gary had to be

1279
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 6: there and that you know, so to find out that

1280
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:39,840
Speaker 6: he was as much of a pro as he was.

1281
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 6: He clearly has, but he was just so you know,

1282
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 6: he took a back seat on our show.

1283
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 4: He took a back seat.

1284
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:46,960
Speaker 3: I had no idea.

1285
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 6: And so when I went we saw him on the

1286
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 6: strike line, we started talking. I was like, oh, you

1287
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 6: you are very aware of what's going on. You are

1288
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 6: very clearly a creative force to be reckoned with. And

1289
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 6: I just had no idea and and yeah, and he

1290
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 6: shared with me then.

1291
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 3: Basically what he shared now.

1292
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 6: Is that he just had so much respect for us

1293
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 6: as actors and was so happy to be writing for us,

1294
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:08,560
Speaker 6: which at the time I had, you know, he just

1295
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 6: took it for granted.

1296
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, Well, don't you remember the joke was

1297
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 2: that we we even put in our movie that we

1298
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 2: thought he was a mob boss because.

1299
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:20,920
Speaker 6: It was worse sunglasses quiet and he was quiet and Jersey.

1300
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, so that we made a joke out of that.

1301
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:25,679
Speaker 3: But yeah, we didn't.

1302
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:28,519
Speaker 2: We just didn't know the caliber of the people that

1303
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:30,760
Speaker 2: we had. I mean, had I known that this guy

1304
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 2: had written for Bosom Buddies and Laverne, surely, I mean,

1305
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 2: he's just some of the greatest sitcoms in history. So yeah,

1306
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 2: I was one of one of the things you hindsight

1307
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 2: being what it is you wish you could go back

1308
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 2: and just talk to everybody about what's going on.

1309
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:46,640
Speaker 5: And I really do think it's just so interesting that

1310
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:49,600
Speaker 5: this is the first time it's been brought up that

1311
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:51,960
Speaker 5: there could be something you really don't like about a

1312
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 5: script that has your name on it. Normally it's come

1313
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 5: up or we're like, oh my gosh, there's something so

1314
01:13:56,439 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 5: funny in this, and they're like, hold on, don't give

1315
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 5: me credit, Like we we haven't had somebody come on

1316
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:03,880
Speaker 5: and go, my name's on that script and I don't

1317
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:05,640
Speaker 5: like this, Like that's kind of that's one of the

1318
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:06,919
Speaker 5: first times we've had that perspective.

1319
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 3: So do they Alan Smithy in sitcom too?

1320
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 4: I don't think so.

1321
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's even a thing, do what.

1322
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:16,759
Speaker 2: So if a writer doesn't like their start director or director,

1323
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 2: but it's also a writer, they'll be where it'll say

1324
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 2: written by or directed by Alan Smithy, which is just

1325
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:23,120
Speaker 2: somebody has taken.

1326
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:26,840
Speaker 3: Their name on the Hollywood Hollywood name. So anytime you

1327
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:28,640
Speaker 3: see this, please hold yeah.

1328
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:30,680
Speaker 5: Thank you all for joining us for this episode of

1329
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 5: pod meets World as always. You can follow us on

1330
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 5: Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us your

1331
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 5: emails pod Meets World Show at gmail dot com. And

1332
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 5: we've got merch.

1333
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 3: Apparently chet dies merch.

1334
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 5: Pod Meetsworldshow dot com will send us out.

1335
01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 3: We love you all, pod dismissed.

1336
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:53,360
Speaker 2: Podmeets World isnheart podcast producer and hosted by Danielle Fischel,

1337
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:56,920
Speaker 2: Wilfredell and Write or Strong. Executive producers Jensen Karp and

1338
01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:00,879
Speaker 2: Amy Sugarman, Executive in charge of production, Danielle Roma, producer

1339
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 2: and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer, Maddy Moore, engineer and Boy

1340
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 2: Meets World super fan Easton Allen. Our theme song is

1341
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:09,680
Speaker 2: by Kyle Morton of Typhoon and you can follow us

1342
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 2: on Instagram at Podmets World Show or email us at

1343
01:15:12,439 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 2: Podmets Worldshow at gmail dot com