WEBVTT - New Research Shows Insider Trading Is Everywhere 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all purtnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.159 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.239 Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.880 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.360 YouTube search Bloomberg clovel News. All right, let's get back 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.640 to COVID and the virus. Tim. We've mentioned some of 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.320 the headlines, the US recovery from the latest COVID nineteen 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.479 wave taking hold cases dropping or poised to start falling 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.600 in the vast majority states. That makes me hopeful. It 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.760 makes me hopeful as well. Also, the f d A 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.720 is leaning toward authorizing half dost booster shots of the 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.040 MODERNA vaccine. And we're also seeing that an anti viral 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:55.080 drug from Murk appears to inhibit several major COVID variants, 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.440 including the highly contagious delta strain. That's according to early 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.000 stage data. It's really interesting stuff going on. So let's 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:04.039 get to our daily check on COVID nineteen. Dr Amy 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:06.800 Compton Phillips is back with us. She's president of Clinical 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.320 Care at Providence Health System. She's on the phone from Seattle. 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:12.720 Remember we've told you this before. The first known US 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.600 case of COVID nineteen was confirmed in Washington State at Providence. 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.800 That was back in January. She and her team were 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:21.360 the first to know this and really have to deal 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.520 with it. The hospital is part of a massive system, 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.880 uh and it includes about fifty one hospitals clinics. It 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.360 is huge, so they see a lot and as I said, 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.320 she joins us from Seattle. Dr Compton Phillips, So nice 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.120 to have you back here with Tim and myself. How 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.039 are you. I'm doing great. Thank you so much for 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.120 having me today. So what are you seeing when it 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:44.880 comes to COVID nineteen cases treatment? How would you assess 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:47.039 the current situation when it comes to our fight against 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:51.680 this pandemic. Well, you know, it's great that we're finally 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:54.040 seeing a little bit of light at the end of 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.240 our current tunnel that we've been going through. You know, 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:58.280 we keep thinking it's the last tunnel we have to hit, 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:00.160 and I would love this to be the last one. 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.919 We still do have in some of our markets, particularly 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.919 in Alaska and in the eastern side of Washington State. 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.600 UM crisis standards of care, So we're not completely out 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.280 of the woods yet, But then explain what Explain what 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:17.000 that is for people who aren't familiar with that yet. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:20.280 Crisis standard of care. Yeah, Crisis standards of care is 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:23.360 what you don't want if you go into the emergency room. UM. 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.880 It means that we really are beyond our capacity to 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.760 help people with all the cutting edge care that you 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:33.680 normally used to that we are either having to use 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:36.360 UM and the kind of the mnemonic that we use 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:41.639 this spaces, supplies and staff, So UM spaces. We're using 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.520 places for care that don't normally take care of patients. 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.959 So we might be using conference rooms, for example, to 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:51.320 put patients in. UM supplies, we might not have every 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.320 ventilator that we need to put people on if they're 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.519 breeding sails, and instead we'll start using alternatives like high 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.960 blow oxygen. And staff means we're using people to extend 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:05.440 the skilled staff we normally have two staff I see us. 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.679 For example, so we might have one ICU nurse that's 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.000 supervising to other nurses that came in from an outpatient 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.080 clinic that don't normally work in an ICU UM, but 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:19.160 to be able to extend what we typically do. Crisis 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:23.760 then crisis then absolutely. It's like I said, it's not 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:25.639 what you would want for you or your family, it's 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:27.720 not what we want to provide. You do what you 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:29.919 can when you have to. So and I thought it 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.440 was so important what you said, seeing the life at 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:34.840 the end of the current tunnel. And I do feel 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.560 like every conversation we have, the caveat is well depending 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.040 on COVID and depending on the trajectory of this virus, 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:47.240 because we just don't know. UM, what optimism do you 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:52.000 hold on to? What worries you? So the optimism I 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:56.520 have is we now have seen around the globe countries 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.560 that have been able to get things under control, even 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.120 in that they of delta. And the way they're doing 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.920 that is with the layered containment strategies we know work, 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:11.040 so really really pushing on vaccines and vaccines um that 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.920 that allow us to get back to life. So in 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.640 countries where they for example, like over in the EU, 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.680 where they're requiring proof of vaccination to go out to 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:23.480 dinner or into museum, vaccination rates have increased and they've 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.880 gotten control of the pandemic. When we do things like 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:32.960 use masks and congregate settings, particularly in places like schools, 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.440 it works. When we increase a ventilation, increase social distancing, 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:40.080 it works. So I do believe that if we actually 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.800 put science into practice that we would get control of 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.680 this wave and have it be the last one that 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.000 we have to deal with. One challenging thing to hear, 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:50.440 and I think for many people to hear right now 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:52.880 is that yes, we can get it under control, but 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:54.560 it requires a lot of sacrifice. I think on an 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.640 individual basis, like you know, we haven't seen family and 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:59.880 over two years, for example, we're not playing on flying 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:04.080 because we have a young child before he's vaccinated. So 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.680 it's it's like this new normal. Even though we can 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.039 keep it under control, it's it's it's not something that 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:11.640 I'm you know, we're all wearing masks around the office, 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:16.000 like it's not great. Yeah. And the really interesting thing 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.920 is over in the EU, to look at Denmark, for example, 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.640 they're back to normal. They're not wearing masks, but it's 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.440 because they did the work to get it under control, 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.960 rather than having to keep going on um with with 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:33.520 the containment strategies. As soon as particularly our kids can 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.280 get vaccinated, it really will allow us to get back 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:37.880 to normal and we won't have to do all the 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.920 layer containment. It'll just be contained now. The challenge we 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:48.640 have is the misinformation that is stoking anti vaccination fears 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:52.600 is really really traumatizing for communities. We have doctors and 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:56.440 nurses that are you know, zipping up body bags again 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.400 in our I see us and then go out to 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:02.920 their car and find a flyer on their windshield saying 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:08.640 that vaccinations cause and then choose your misinformation um fact um, 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:10.800 and that they will be held accountable and that they're 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:16.120 contributing to genocide. So it is incredibly challenging for our 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.080 people who have been putting their lives and health and 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.080 families lives on the line for the past eighteen months, 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.040 to be seen as the problem rather than the solution 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.560 to the pandemic. That has got to be difficult. I 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.480 want to get back to our guest. At this hour, 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.520 it's Dr Amy compted Phillips. She's president of Clinical Care 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.400 at Providence Health System. UH still with us on the 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:39.120 phone from Seattle. Dr Compton Phillips. Let's talk a little 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.400 bit about pregnant women. It's something Tim and I have 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.480 talked a lot about. I know are friends who are 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.799 thinking about getting pregnant. There are those that are pregnant 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.800 who've been vaccinated. There are others who don't want to 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.440 get the vaccine ahead of it. Um, what can you 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.000 tell us? There's lots of research and information being put 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:59.000 out there. There is lots of research and the great 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.279 news that the vaccines are safe and effective and pregnant women. 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.160 The reason that's great news is because moms and babies 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.920 are at real risk from COVID. That particularly with the 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:14.679 Delta wave, with the increased contagiousness of this particular germ, 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.040 and the fact that it is affecting so many young people. 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:21.880 We have seen, um, you know, one is too many. 0:07:21.960 --> 0:07:25.400 We have seen so many women who have come in 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.880 pregnant and have either lost their baby because of the 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:32.720 blood clotting that COVID itself causes um and then disrupting 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.080 flow to the placentas of them the baby doesn't make 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:39.480 it UM and or moms themselves because of the mild 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.040 immune suppression you get from pregnancy itself, not being able 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:46.440 to fight off COVID, and then you know the whole O, B, G, 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.119 Y N trying to decide do we deliver this baby 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.280 early to try to save mom's life or what do 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:55.040 we do? It's just a horrible thing for pregnant women 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.920 to get severely ill from COVID. Preventing yourself with the 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.760 shot is absolute, literally the best course, but it's not 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.200 something that many pregnant women are doing. Only of pregnant 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.920 people have been vaccinated, lower rates among Hispanic and Black people. 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:11.000 How do you get that number? Why, why do you 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.280 think that's happening? And how do you get that number up? Well? 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.880 I think pregnant women are women who are even considering pregnancy, 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.200 are always really really worried about doing anything that might 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.320 put the baby at risk and appropriately So it's why 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:27.360 why so many pregnant women I know um are are 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.960 hesitant to take a tile at all, much less anything else. 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.080 And and so I think having been appropriately cautious is 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.280 absolutely the right thing to do. I don't know that 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.520 women know the fact that the risk of COVID while 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.439 pregnant is so much higher than the risk of the 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.360 vaccine that we have a lot of data now, and 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.280 I know this vaccine is reasonably new. But when you 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.720 do a new vaccine in billions of people literally across 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:55.640 the globe, you get data very quickly, and we know 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.240 that this vaccine is now safe and effective for pregnant 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.040 women and tificantly more safe than getting COVID is when 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.520 you're pregnant. Getting that word out is hard, and so 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:11.120 it is part of the conversation um to to help 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:14.240 ensure that we do get the word out. So are O, 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.080 B G y N s are are beating the drums 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.040 were in, the papers were beating it. The American College 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:23.840 of Obstetrics and Gynecology ACOG is making sure that it's known. 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.120 CDC is putting the information out. And still it takes 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.000 really one on one conversation with women to know that 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.160 the best thing they can do for a safe and 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:34.839 healthy pregnancy is get a shot dr one thing I 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:36.760 want to do. Playing Devil's advocate, We've only got about 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.640 forty five seconds. Here is there's somewhere, say we'll wait 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:40.719 a minute. We don't know the data. We don't know 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.600 when a kid is five or ten, whether there's some 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.480 complications or something. What do you say to that? And 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.880 I am playing Devil's advocate a bit here. Yeah, I'd 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.080 say that delivering a baby to term and being able 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.439 to raise that baby till their five or ten is 0:09:55.480 --> 0:10:00.480 a definite benefit rather than having having a complicated pregnancy 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.559 that doesn't go to term because of COVID. Alright, we're 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.200 going to leave it on that note. Always good to 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.600 get your time with you. Please stay safe and we 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:11.199 wish you well you and your team. Dr Amy Compton Phillips, 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.560 president of Clinical Care at Providence Health System, on the 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:18.440 phone from Seattle, Washington. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.640 with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.800 Bloomberg Radio. Oh my god, we're already talking about this story. 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:28.000 We've been talking since it hit the terminal this morning. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.959 It's the cover story of Bloomberg Business which happens to 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.480 also be the big take on the Terminal. It's about 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:38.520 insiders winning trades. When I read in, I mean I 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:40.679 just I was reading in this morning. I usually scan. 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:42.720 You couldn't put it on. I could not. I was 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.880 sitting there with my coffee and just kept going because, UM, 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.880 I don't know, there's just it's a fascinating story, it 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:50.880 really is, and it's a cover story for insight into 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:52.679 something that I don't think a lot of people know 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:57.280 about it and understandably, um it's a little wonky too. 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.200 Let's let's get into it. Joe Weber is editor at 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.600 Bloomberg Business. We Ke's with us in the Bloomberg Interactive 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.520 Broker studio. Liam Bond is Projects and Investigations reporter for 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:09.439 Bloomberg News, joining us on the phone from London. Joel, Okay, insiders, 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:14.160 that's right, how are they defined? So? UH gonna be 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.240 careful here because there's a I can I can hear 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:21.280 my my legal counsel on my on my my shoulder 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:25.319 advising on how to say this. So, uh, corporate executives 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:30.120 get some privilege information, right, and some of that information 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.160 is obviously non public because you know, helps them do 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:37.240 their jobs. But it also turns out that they have 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.800 some special abilities to like trade, and it also means 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.599 that those trades get disclosed, so eventually we get to 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:46.719 see what they do and that's long been known. And 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.480 what's really interesting about the story I thought was also 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.960 that now there are like websites set up to like 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:56.240 track and rank who's the best insider at trading and 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.560 you can subscribe and you can subscribe three dollars a month. Um. 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.080 But a new artier also, you know, it gets to 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:07.080 some the heart of capitalism is like is somebody getting 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.800 an unfair advantage over the rest of us? So, so Liam, 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:12.719 what's how does that breakdown? And and how is this? 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:18.360 How is this legal? Because it is? Yeah, so so 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.679 I can look like the kind of Um, the stories 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.920 that dominate, like financial coverage inside of trading always like 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:28.120 rears its head like it was. It was really big 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:31.800 in the eighties with Michael milk Un and Bowski and 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.760 then again you know when you have Sack Capital and 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.360 pre Berra and stuff. But the thing is like the 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:41.240 stories keep coming, but the issue never goes away. And 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.880 I think fundamentally the reason for that is that the 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:48.520 law in America around inside of trading is just really 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:53.559 shoddy and isn't really up to the task. Um. So, 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.840 for example, there's no crime of insider trading in America 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:58.880 in the same way that there is in the UK 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:03.040 or another place. Um. What happens in America is that 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:07.120 you have to charge people with securities fraud UM, and 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.480 it's all done via kind of case law. There isn't 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.400 an insider trading statue, even though people are pushing for 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.560 that UM, and essentially that really raises the bar but 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.560 behind bringing these cases because to prove frauard you have 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:24.280 to demonstrate this thing called scienter, which is like criminal intent. 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.880 So you have to demonstrate that this inside the trade 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.720 and use their head inside instivation and liberally set out 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.680 to take advantage of it UM. And the problem with 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.120 that is that even though you can sort of see, well, 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.400 the CEO keeps getting very lucky, they can turn around 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.920 and say, well, if you look at the information that 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.199 was in the public domain already, you know it was 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.000 pretty obvious that the shares were going to go up, 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.199 or you know, I just had better ability to judge 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:51.960 what was already out there, and it's very hard to 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.199 prove them wrong. And if you think about like normal 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.680 insider trading cases that you think of like the fat 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.400 capitals of this world, and hopefully if you're a secuty, 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.640 you'll find some email or find some witness, whereas in 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.680 this it's really just all going on in the executive's head. Um, So, 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:09.880 you know, I spoke to a bunch of you know, 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.840 x SEC folks, ex prosecutors, and they all said that 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.760 these cases are just absolute pigs and that's why they're 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:20.160 largely you know, it's almost like an unprosecutable crime essentially, 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.400 meaning that they're not necessary isn't necessarily a case there 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:29.160 you're saying, well, it's just incredibly hard to demonstrate wrong 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:34.760 for criminal prosecutors. Yeah. Liam, What I found so fascinating 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.920 about this was that even you know, some government lawyers 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.640 who you talked to question how much damage the executive 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.280 trading really causes, which makes me think it's like, wait 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:49.480 a second, is it really is it a victimless Yeah, 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.240 that that really struck out to me about this story. 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.720 So explain that because not everybody thinks this is necessarily 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:56.520 that bad. Well, I think that's the thing that really 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:58.720 appealed to me about the story is the kind of 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.680 moral and for esophical questions that it it raises. So 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:05.520 you've got someone like Free Berrara, who kind of made 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.600 his name as the Sheriff of Wall Street and he 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.600 brought down all these insider traders, and then a load 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.000 of his cases ended up having to be quashed because 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.280 just down to this you know, function of this kind 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.280 of squiggly law and the case law. But he would argue, look, 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:26.400 it's about fairness. Like fundamentally, um, you know, elites in 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.520 society shouldn't have an advantage when you know, trading our 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.480 financial markets over other people. And even if the losses 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:37.160 are small or they're disparate and spread out, that's you know, 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:41.400 fundamentally the principle at stake, where other people, particularly economists, 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:46.400 so around and say well, actually, you know, by trading, 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.440 these guys are helping making markets more efficient because they 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.640 make disclosures. People can look at the disclosures and ultimately 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:57.360 it kind of helps wheel the grease the wheels of capitalism. 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:01.080 And therefore it's a bit like you know, I sort 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:05.359 of make the analogy of of of like drug enforcement. 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.120 It's almost like an unwitnable thing. So prosecutors will be 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:12.760 better off just ignoring it all together and accepting that 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:14.200 this is kind of part of parting of the way 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.800 that the world works. So the picture side this is 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:22.000 it's also rather timely because you know, we have new 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.760 new chair in SEC. There's been some shatter in d C. 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.240 What what what has been that chattering and where could 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:34.640 we see this this conversation go on the regulatory front. Yes, 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:39.280 so there's two. One is at the higher level political 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.880 legislative level, where they're talking about actually introducing inside of 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.560 trading statutes and rules which would have a quite profound impact. 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:49.480 And then there's the more kind of rule based stuff 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:51.960 that's going on at the SEC where they have actually 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:53.920 talked about and it looks like it could happen quite 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:58.720 quickly reforming. One of the main culprits of this whole story, 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:01.560 which these kind of the will tend be five trading 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.560 plans and basically what it is, if you're an executive 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:06.880 and you want to sell your stock, you could enter 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.560 a plan with like a third party that says I'm 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.119 going to trade x amount of stock over this period 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.679 of time. But the problem is these things are kind 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.640 of right with loopholes and um, you know, it's been 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:22.080 various kind of research showing how how vulnerable they are 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.040 to abuse. So it looks like at least on that 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.840 side of things, on the trading plans thing, there could 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.400 be some movement. But again, the way that the law 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.600 is written, my you know, my understanding of people are spoken. 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:35.800 He says that there's only certain things they can do. 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.560 They can't completely solve the problems in the way that 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.119 they'd like to without ripping up the rule because and 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.480 rewriting the hole inside the trading law. But there is 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.800 an advantage. Let's be fair, like an insider, whether they 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:51.280 just soak up stuff as they work around the office, 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.200 is uh fair to say that they soak up a 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.920 certain amount of information. There's got to be a little 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.840 bit of bias in any trade that they do potentially, 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.560 and you know, maybe maybe that's right that you get 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:04.920 rewarded for that for doing such a good job, right 0:18:05.000 --> 0:18:07.080 or maybe not? And maybe this is something that we're 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.880 going to hear more about. I love love, Love Love 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:12.119 This story Must read Bloomberg Big Take cover story of 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.240 Bloomberg Business this Week. Joe Weber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week. 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.040 Here in our studio, Bloomberg News Projects and Investigations. Reporter 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.240 Liam Bond on the phone in London. Check it out. 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:27.159 This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:32.560 Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.840 meet George Jetson. Maybe a little bit um not really really, 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:41.560 but are you ready to welcome in Amazon's astro robot? Me? 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:44.560 I don't know, are you know? I'm actually not? Okay, 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.479 that's sorry, all right? And really what is it for? 0:18:47.680 --> 0:18:50.600 And that's exactly what our Bloomberg News technology reporter Matt 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.879 Day is asking in his latest story. He joins us 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:56.359 on the phone in Seattle. Matt, good to have you 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.680 here with Tim and myself. So tell us a little 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:04.080 bit about the astro robot. So. Astro is a little 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.480 foot and a half tall kind of a touch screen 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:09.280 on wheels, um Amazon that it can follow you around, 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.399 it could meet the family, It can do little security 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:13.480 sweeps in your home. And if it comes to a 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:16.919 lot of the same voice activated shops and capabilities that 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.439 people would note from their their Amazon smart speakers and 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:23.960 Alexa devices, Well, what is the need for this? Right? Like? 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.560 What is what is the problem this is solving? That 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:29.479 is a great question, and if you read the initial 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:34.160 coverage since Amazon's launch yesterday, everybody is asking that question. Um. Amazon, 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.159 for their part, says, you know, home security is a 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:39.320 key capability of this thing. You know, if if you're gone, 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.720 you can have it stream video of your kitchen or 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.560 whatever to your smartphone. Um, which is in keeping with 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:46.760 a lot of Amazon's pitch recently there if their home 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.840 devices is it's basically a home security thing. Um. That's 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:52.120 there's that off to that. But aside from that, there's 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.520 not a whole lot um that this can do that 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.199 you know, your your smart speaker can't already do or 0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:58.960 you know, if you might not need to be get 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.040 done at all. Okay, and just did at launch just 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.280 to you know, be devil's advocate here I went. I 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:05.840 had the same reaction when the first Alexa device came 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.240 out years ago. I saw the video that Amazon put 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:09.520 out and I was like, what is this thing? And 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:12.080 that thing ended up just being an absolute home run 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:14.600 for the company. Is there any kind of feeling like that, like, Okay, 0:20:14.600 --> 0:20:16.520 this could be a sleeper hit or this is like 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:18.679 Amazon just throwing something against the wall and see if 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:23.480 it sticks. The Amazon's position if they think it's ripe 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:25.560 enough that they want to try, right, Like just as 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:27.679 they could put into the world a bare box you know, 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:30.120 Echo and Eleca device that couldn't really do much at launch, 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:32.040 it might evolve into something else. They're kind of planting 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.320 the flag here, and I think, um, you know, you're 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.760 you're right to raise the echo example, But that's that's 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.439 definitely the optimistic take from inside Amazon is that we 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.320 think the tech is good enough that there's gonna be 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:43.479 home robots. We might as well be there in some 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:46.280 form or fashion and see if we can, you know, frankly, 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:48.400 help customers figure out what to do with the thing. Well, 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:50.280 and maybe it's the first step. I mean, we've all 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:54.680 remember Boston Dynamics, right, and those incredible robots that can 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.880 that are lifelike terrifying, whether it's the dog, Yeah, terrifying 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.879 works too. But you you you wonder about kind of 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.440 where this is all going, and whether it's Amazon or 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.359 other companies. I do feel like the world Matt to 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:10.000 some extent is slowly moving in that direction. I mean, 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:11.840 we don't mind that we've got a robot that vacuums 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.800