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Speaker 1: Take personally.

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Speaker 2: With Orgame Fuelsman in twenty twenty five. Vertigo effects about

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Speaker 2: one in ten people worldwide, with women being more prone

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Speaker 2: to it than men. Additionally, fifteen to twenty percent of

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Speaker 2: adults experienced dizziness annually. That's why we're doing an episode

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Speaker 2: all about vertigo. I am, unfortunately part of the one

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Speaker 2: in ten. I was diagnosed with BPPV last year after

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Speaker 2: my first positional vertigo episode in February of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: It was my first time ever knowing or experiencing vertigo.

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Speaker 2: But after posting several moments of my BPPV diagnosis and journey,

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Speaker 2: several people online have come forward with similar ailments and issues,

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Speaker 2: so I wanted to dedicate an episode to all of

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Speaker 2: the vertigo sufferers. Holly Coothin joins me this episode. She's

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Speaker 2: a friend and a vestibular specialist at Vanderbilt and the

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Speaker 2: reason that I'm operating at one hundred percent again after

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Speaker 2: both of my BPPV episodes, So you'll hear some of

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Speaker 2: my experiences, but through the lens of Holly, the actual

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Speaker 2: expert on this particular topic. I am bringing on not

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Speaker 2: only one of my good friends, but also a good

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Speaker 2: friend by way of vertigo. Her name is Holly. Holly

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Speaker 2: is a vestibular specialist in the physical therapy world, and

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Speaker 2: she's basically saved my life on multiple occasions. Now, Hey Holly,

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Speaker 2: thanks for joining.

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Speaker 1: Hey Morgan, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: How are you feeling right now in this moment.

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Speaker 1: I'm good, I'm good.

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Speaker 2: Ready to talk all about all things vertigo? Yes, okay,

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Speaker 2: I want to know how you got into this line

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Speaker 2: of work because it's so specific and you yourself don't

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Speaker 2: have vertigo.

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Speaker 1: No, that's true, I don't. One of my clinicals actually

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Speaker 1: canceled on me in physical therapy school, so I ended

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Speaker 1: up going to a clinic that was about an hour

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Speaker 1: away from Mobile, Alabama, which is where I went to

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Speaker 1: PET school, and my clinical instructor happened to be a

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Speaker 1: vestibular specialist, and so it just fell in my lap.

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Speaker 1: I was good at it, and I loved it, and

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Speaker 1: it's all I've ever done. For thirteen years. I've never

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Speaker 1: done a single day of ortho. So I can't help

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Speaker 1: you with your shoulder, I can't help you with your

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Speaker 1: knees or ankles, but I can do anything.

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Speaker 2: Balance in dizziness, okay, in vestibular give us the breakdown

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Speaker 2: of what all that encompasses. When I say you're a

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Speaker 2: vestibular specialist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's the inner ear. It's really that easy.

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Speaker 1: All things balance, all things dizzyness, and then also concussions

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Speaker 1: fit in with that. Vestibular migraines in.

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Speaker 2: Like tonightis, maneirs are both some of the things that

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Speaker 2: you work with.

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Speaker 1: So tonightis is the one thing we can't touch really

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Speaker 1: in the vestibular world. There's nothing we can do about that,

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Speaker 1: but mineirs and other things like labyrinthiitis weaknesses of the

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Speaker 1: inner ear that I can help with.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Obviously verdio which for me what I dealt with

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Speaker 2: and stumbled onto you was BPPV, which is benign positional paris.

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Speaker 2: I could never say the second.

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Speaker 1: Piece, benign paroxysmal positional.

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Speaker 2: Vertio, thank you. Yeah, I just always in upsameing positional vertical.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, And that's a good way to put it.

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Speaker 1: So it's the number one vestibular diagnosis, and it's actually

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Speaker 1: my specialty and the easiest to treat.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you say easiest to treat, and I remember my dreams.

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Speaker 2: I was like, this is not easy, but it's so funny,

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Speaker 2: Holly and I as a patient doctor situation, if you will.

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Speaker 2: It was always funny because Hollywood always reference things. She'd

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Speaker 2: be like, this is so robust, Oh my gosh, Morgan,

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Speaker 2: this is beautiful or like it just like this moment,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, ohly no, it's not.

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Speaker 1: That's so true.

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Speaker 2: But you were experiencing like, okay, this is like something

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Speaker 2: I can work with and something I can treat. Where

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Speaker 2: I was sitting here and I was like, I don't

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Speaker 2: want something to be beautiful in my eyes and in

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Speaker 2: my ear.

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Speaker 1: I'm staring like closely into your eyes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, BPPV vertigo this situation? How does it happen

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Speaker 2: for people like I stumbled into your office because there

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Speaker 2: was a listener of the Bobby Bone Show who reached

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Speaker 2: out to me on Instagram. What was her name?

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Speaker 1: Katrina?

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Speaker 2: Katrina my colleague, and she was like, I have a

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Speaker 2: friend who can work wonders on you. I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, do anything to help me right now.

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Speaker 2: I got set up with you, had no idea somebody

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Speaker 2: like you even existed, which is why I brought you

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Speaker 2: on here. The best kept secret you are, but you

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Speaker 2: shouldn't be a secret, Like you are helping people who

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Speaker 2: have a debilitating illness all the time, So how does

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Speaker 2: somebody end up one with vertigo or BPPV. What are

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Speaker 2: the kind of different variations that would make somebody land

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Speaker 2: in your office with this?

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Speaker 1: So let's start kind of with what is BPPV. It

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Speaker 1: is room spinning vertigo that happens with position like positional changes.

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Speaker 1: So laying down, rolling over in bed, sitting up, all

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Speaker 1: of those things make your world go round and round

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Speaker 1: and you can't figure out which ways up. So that's

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Speaker 1: the definition of it.

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Speaker 2: In the little crystals in your ears and they move

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Speaker 2: from the rocky wall, I will always remember you telling

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Speaker 2: me that, yees.

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Speaker 1: So they're called odconia little calcium carbonate. They are super

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Speaker 1: small little rocks that come out of your utricle so

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Speaker 1: that's your balance organ, and they go into one of

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Speaker 1: your six semi circular canals and they send false signals

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Speaker 1: to your brain that you're like going upside down and

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Speaker 1: again it makes the world go round and round.

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Speaker 2: Which is I describe in two ways, Like when I

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Speaker 2: experienced a vertigo, it was I was either on a

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Speaker 2: Tiltera whirl or I was like had a blackout drunk

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Speaker 2: moment in the world will not stop spinning. Those were

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Speaker 2: like the two similarities I could relate it to. It's

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Speaker 2: a crazy experience. And then but why does it happen

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Speaker 2: for some people? Why does it not happen for others?

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Speaker 2: And like, how can it happen? Can it happen to anybody?

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Speaker 2: Give me the breakdown?

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Speaker 1: Okay, the breakdown. So it usually happens to people from

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Speaker 1: ages fifty to seventy years old. You are rare. I

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Speaker 1: rarely see it in someone in our early thirties, So

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Speaker 1: that's different. Welcome to my life, exactly. You're special, always

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Speaker 1: been special. In the doctor's office, it's usually idiopathic. We

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Speaker 1: actually don't really know why it happens to some people

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Speaker 1: and not others. Now, it can be attached to things

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Speaker 1: like migraines and things like if you have an inner

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Speaker 1: ear problem already, it's going to attach on to that

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna be at a higher risk for BPPV.

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Speaker 1: But for majority of people, it just happens one day

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Speaker 1: when you wake up and it's terrifying. It's actually really scary.

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Speaker 1: So most people think they're having a stroke or even

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Speaker 1: a heart attack, and they run to the emergency room.

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Speaker 2: And from what I've learned, running to the emergency room

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Speaker 2: is only going to get you some medicine, send you

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Speaker 2: on your way and say you have here some nausea

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Speaker 2: medicine that'll help you not feel like that side effect,

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Speaker 2: But it doesn't actually treat the symptom, which is vertigo.

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Speaker 1: The medicine that they give you, so it's usually something

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Speaker 1: called mechlasen or antivert. It really it's like a drama

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Speaker 1: me on steroids. It really doesn't do anything to help

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Speaker 1: the underlying cause. So it's a bit of a band aid.

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Speaker 1: It might take the edge off a little bit, but

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Speaker 1: it's not going to stop the world from spinning around you.

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Speaker 2: And what does actually stop the world from spinning around

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Speaker 2: you is maneuvers. Yes me, Yes, That's how people get

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Speaker 2: to Holly by way of typically earns and throat doctors

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Speaker 2: who then recommend to her. So the maneuvers. But tell

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Speaker 2: people how you diagnose, because every time I show these

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Speaker 2: crazy videos of you putting the goggles on me and

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Speaker 2: my eyes going crazy, everybody's I didn't even know this

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Speaker 2: is wild technology. Tell people what happens when somebody comes

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Speaker 2: in and you're treating them for verdigo.

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Speaker 1: So I put you in different testing positions, and I

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Speaker 1: watch your eyes when the crystals move within those semicircular canals,

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Speaker 1: there's little hairs in there, and again the signals are

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Speaker 1: sent to the brain and they actually make your eyes

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Speaker 1: move in certain directions. And so I watch the eyes

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Speaker 1: and that tells me where the crystals are located, and

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Speaker 1: that helps me choose the maneuver.

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Speaker 2: And then to treat you how many maneuvers are actually

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Speaker 2: out there, because it's is a very controversial thing, because

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Speaker 2: I remember you're like, I told you I did the

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Speaker 2: Epley maneuver, and you're like, oh, dear gosh, no, not

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Speaker 2: because the Epley is bad, but because it's not a

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Speaker 2: vertigo is not a one size fits all, and people

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Speaker 2: use Eppley in that capacity.

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Speaker 1: Correct, So most people have heard of something called the

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Speaker 1: mod fied Epley, and that treats the posterior and anterior

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Speaker 1: canals now greater than ninety three ninety five percent of

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Speaker 1: the time. That's probably gonna work. But I see BPPV

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Speaker 1: all day every day, and so of course it's it

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Speaker 1: doesn't fix everyone's so we gosh, I don't even I

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Speaker 1: don't even know how many maneuvers there are, but there

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Speaker 1: are a lot there are.

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Speaker 2: And even when we were going through my treatment, I

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Speaker 2: remember you pulling out the book and you're like, I

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Speaker 2: think we need to do a different maneuver that I

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Speaker 2: don't typically have to do.

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Speaker 1: I think I had to do three on you.

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Speaker 2: And I remember telling people that you did the barbecue

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Speaker 2: roll on me. I'm like, you know, like you were rotamn,

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Speaker 2: Like yeah, it was a literal skewer on a barbecue

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Speaker 2: is what basically she did to me.

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Speaker 1: You were a special case, so because you started out

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Speaker 1: in one canal and then you switched to another canal,

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Speaker 1: and so it got a little bit muddy. So that's

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Speaker 1: why we had to use so many maneuvers.

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Speaker 2: And how often do you see like that happen where

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Speaker 2: you're a you called me a multi canal VPPV.

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Speaker 1: I see it quite frequently.

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Speaker 2: See. Okay, so I'm special, but I'm not like so

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Speaker 2: special that I have to become a case study, right right?

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Speaker 1: Cool?

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Speaker 2: I appreciate, Yeah, no case studies, really glad. But the

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Speaker 2: thing that was so hard for me when I was

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Speaker 2: going through this, and I cried in your office and

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh gosh, Morgan, it'll be okay, we got this.

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Speaker 2: But what was so terrifying for me was not the treatment,

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Speaker 2: not the maneuvers you were doing, nothing like that. It

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Speaker 2: was I'm gonna have to deal with this for the

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Speaker 2: rest of my life, because once you've had it, you're

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Speaker 2: likely to get it again. When I first walked into

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Speaker 2: your office for the very first time ever February of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, we were like, Okay, this potentially came

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Speaker 2: from a bounced fitness class, and this may never happen again.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully this is it one time in ten years from now.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we're hoping it was a one off. And fast

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Speaker 2: forward to this year, twenty twenty five, and it happens again,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, no, this means it's gonna happen more,

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Speaker 2: and I do not want this in my life. And

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Speaker 2: so I was having this huge panic, which I think

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Speaker 2: anybody who deals one with a chronic illness, one with

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Speaker 2: an invisible illness, three with a debilitating illness that people

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Speaker 2: don't understand on any of those levels, you feel just

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Speaker 2: overwhelmed with what your life is going to be like indefinitely.

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Speaker 2: And so when I was sitting in there and I

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Speaker 2: was crying, You're like, oh, no, like we're gonna treat this.

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Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, no, this is not you.

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Speaker 2: This is like me realizing that my body's kind of

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Speaker 2: betrayed me and I now have to do this all

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Speaker 2: the time to get better, and it's so debilitating.

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Speaker 1: It is. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Do you see a lot of your patients come in

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Speaker 2: and they have this kind of same experience where it's like,

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Speaker 2: is this for real? This is what I'm gonna have

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Speaker 2: to keep dealing with.

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Speaker 1: One of the number one questions that I hear is

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Speaker 1: how do I prevent it from happening again? And there's

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Speaker 1: a really bad joke in the vestibular world that we

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Speaker 1: say that's job security for us. There there is no

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Speaker 1: way to prevent it. Things like high intensity aerobic activity,

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Speaker 1: which is probably why it happened to you in the

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Speaker 1: first place. You were at the bounce class, so a

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Speaker 1: lot of impact on the floor probably made those crystals

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Speaker 1: come loose. But other things like going into surgery and

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Speaker 1: then being sedentary for a while, going to the dentist,

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Speaker 1: going back and getting your hair done, things like that

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Speaker 1: can also make BPPV reoccur, and can they also be.

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Speaker 2: The reason it starts. Like all of those.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, So usually it's idiopathic. But also a large

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Speaker 1: majority of BPPV patients come in post concussion or a

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Speaker 1: hit to the head or even like a whiplash injury

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Speaker 1: postcar accident. So usually, like my younger patients are going

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Speaker 1: to have some sort of blow to the head.

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Speaker 2: But when I came in and you're like, oh, you did.

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Speaker 1: A fitness what is happening Yours was a high intensity

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Speaker 1: aerobic fitness class that likely made it happen.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. And see that's what's so crazy about it.

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Speaker 2: And when I talk to people and they're like, you're

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Speaker 2: good now, I'm like, I'm good until it chooses to

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Speaker 2: happen again. And that's what's so scary because it can

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Speaker 2: happen again, and it can happen you have no warning,

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Speaker 2: you have no way of preventing it. Just like you said,

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Speaker 2: it's just and then you're knocked out. Like when it

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Speaker 2: first happens to me, I am stuck in my bed

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Speaker 2: for three days waiting until whatever the moment of the

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Speaker 2: episode started subsides to then start trying to heal. And

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Speaker 2: that's what's so scary about BPPV and vertigo itself. But

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Speaker 2: like that experience I had where it was like, again,

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Speaker 2: we're not sitting there, and I was like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: I could be driving, I could be on a road trip,

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Speaker 2: I could be miles away from Holly, I could be

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Speaker 2: getting married, and I literally could have like this Vertigo

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Speaker 2: episode happen. And that experience was just everything came washing

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Speaker 2: over me in that moment where I was like, this

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Speaker 2: is now my life and now I'm like on this

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Speaker 2: mission to be like, how can I get the healthiest

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Speaker 2: I've ever been in the potential that it somehow impacts

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Speaker 2: this is the goal, right, Like I just hope that

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Speaker 2: I inadvertently do something to help it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's really truly nothing out there that is

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Speaker 1: proven to help prevent it, except potentially vitamin D levels.

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Speaker 1: So we do have our patients get their vitamin D

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Speaker 1: levels check because if you're on the lower side, it

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Speaker 1: can lead to recurrence. But other than that, there's no

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Speaker 1: special diet. There's no we don't tell you to give

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Speaker 1: up coffee or alcohol. There's nothing from this food related

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Speaker 1: that will help prevent it from happening or from occurring

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Speaker 1: in the first place.

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Speaker 2: And that's what I see a lot because the internet

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Speaker 2: is a dangerous place it is, and you see a

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Speaker 2: lot of things of I went gluten free and my

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Speaker 2: vertigo stopped, or you see someone who goes, I went

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Speaker 2: to a chiropractor, I've never had issues again, these kind

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Speaker 2: of gambit of things. But like truly medical sense, is

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Speaker 2: any of that proven or is it just like potentially

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Speaker 2: happenstance that those connected.

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Speaker 1: I think we need to realize that vertigo is not

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Speaker 1: just BPPV. Vertigo can come from a multitude of vestibular

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Speaker 1: diagnoses that actually create this same room spinning symptoms. It's

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Speaker 1: not always super super easy to treat, which BPPP is,

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Speaker 1: but other things like vestibular migraines or a vestibular neuritis,

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Speaker 1: which is a weakness of the inner ear, they actually

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Speaker 1: create the same symptoms that positional vertigo us.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so when people are having these experiences of things

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Speaker 2: helping them, it's likely that something else is going on

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Speaker 2: that those help them. But BEPPV itself, if you just

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Speaker 2: have like me, potentially we're still working through my understanding

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Speaker 2: of what the heck is going on in my anatomy.

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Speaker 2: But say I just end up having BPPV, there is

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Speaker 2: nothing besides the potential of vitamin D levels that I

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Speaker 2: could do that would prevent it from happening.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's correct, and you're so young, it's likely going

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Speaker 1: to happen again, and I do.

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Speaker 2: I've heard of a lot of people who get this.

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Speaker 2: This is the craziest part to me because when this

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Speaker 2: first happened and I found out about you and you

305
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Speaker 2: were treating me and I was slowly getting better, there

306
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Speaker 2: were so many people that reached out and they were like,

307
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Speaker 2: I live with this every day for months on end,

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Speaker 2: and they get a little bit better because that's the

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Speaker 2: process of vertigo, which also you taught me that vertic

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Speaker 2: itself is just the symptom, and then you have the diagnosis.

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Speaker 2: So just like you're mentioning, vertigo can be caused by

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Speaker 2: multitude of different things. But what I'm aligning here with

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Speaker 2: is the BPPV, which is my diagnosis.

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Speaker 1: That's correct. You are your special and I say that

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Speaker 1: in a way that your system is actually really sensitive

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Speaker 1: to the BPPV. So not everyone that comes to me

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Speaker 1: has to be in bed for three days. There are

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Speaker 1: people that actually still are able to get up and

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Speaker 1: go to work and function no problem at all. But

320
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Speaker 1: that is because their BPPV is not as what I

321
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,239
Speaker 1: call robust as yours. So it's likely that the crystals

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Speaker 1: are either really small, so they range from three microns

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Speaker 1: to thirty microns. Wow, that's really tiny, and.

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Speaker 2: Which you also told me you can't even see them

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Speaker 2: on you can't pull them out and see them on

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Speaker 2: a microscope.

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Speaker 1: But they're so small. So if you, let's say you

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Speaker 1: have a cluster of three three micron odiconia that are

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Speaker 1: going through your canals, your eye movements and your symptoms

330
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Speaker 1: are not gonna be as intense as if the odiconia

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Speaker 1: or size thirty microns and they're moving fast through the canals.

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Speaker 1: So that's going to create a much more intense situation.

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Speaker 1: So it's not always gonna make people vomit and make

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00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,480
Speaker 1: them sick to their stomach or make them miswork. But

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Speaker 1: in your case, you're just one of the lucky ones

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Speaker 1: and you've had really good boots.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, really really lovely bouts. I'm so lucky. Yeah. So

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Speaker 2: when we talk about this though, and people hear like

339
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Speaker 2: they'll have a dizziness spell, is that potentially vertigo or

340
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Speaker 2: is it like dizziness and vertigo are separated? Because I

341
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Speaker 2: was having this conversation with somebody online and she was like,

342
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Speaker 2: if you get motion sickness and then you have dizziness,

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Speaker 2: it can be connected to vertigo. Is that all intertwined

344
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Speaker 2: or are they kind of separate entities?

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Speaker 1: Dizziness is an umbrella term, so so dizzeyness is usually

346
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 1: used to describe swimmy headed, lightheaded feelings, whereas vertigo is

347
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Speaker 1: actually the room spinning. But also you can have vertigo

348
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Speaker 1: where people say that they're spinning within their own head,

349
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Speaker 1: and so that can happen as well. Okay, but no,

350
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Speaker 1: dizzeyness is the umbrella term, and then vertigo usually fits

351
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Speaker 1: underneath that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but specifically, if somebody's having a vertigo episode, typically

353
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Speaker 2: the world is spinning typically versus like you're just like

354
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Speaker 2: a little bit nauseous, queasy, lightheaded as kind of the

355
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Speaker 2: dizziness experience. Is motion sickness vertigo connected at all? Is

356
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Speaker 2: there some because that's an Internet thing where it's like

357
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 2: if you get motion sickness in the car, or you

358
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Speaker 2: get motion sickness on rides, which I've had my entire life,

359
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Speaker 2: and I never had vertigo until now, are those connected

360
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 2: at all? Is there something to that?

361
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,760
Speaker 1: Motion sickness is not connected to BPPVKA particular.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I know connection. I know that's a crazy thing.

363
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Speaker 2: But like I'm when I was going through this experience,

364
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,880
Speaker 2: and I'm going online searching for all kinds of answers,

365
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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to find anything to understand what's happening

366
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Speaker 2: to me, because when it does happen to you, you're

367
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 2: terrified and you're like, it's all I know is the

368
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,159
Speaker 2: world just went spinning and I can't move my body upright.

369
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 2: And you're like what does that mean? And you google

370
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 2: and you have vertigo? And then I'm like, what the

371
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 2: heck is vertigo? And you just go down this rabbit

372
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Speaker 2: hole of trying to understand what's happening to your body.

373
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Speaker 2: Because in my day to day life, my entire life,

374
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Speaker 2: there's only one person, a good friend of mine, who

375
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,480
Speaker 2: actually has some hearing loss, and she has vertigo. She's

376
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Speaker 2: the only person I've ever known in my life that

377
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 2: has had it, or at least that's talked about having it.

378
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,160
Speaker 2: But of course now that I talk about it, everyone

379
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:43,880
Speaker 2: has it. Yeah.

380
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 1: Usually if you mention it to one person, they're like,

381
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,639
Speaker 1: oh my mom had it, my sister had it. My

382
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 1: aunt had it, and it may or may not have

383
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,439
Speaker 1: been BPPV, but yeah, still they're describing as vertigo.

384
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 2: So people who do have potentially like this room spinning

385
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 2: vertigo BPPV, do they have to live with it? Like

386
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,120
Speaker 2: you see something often that people are like, I live

387
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 2: with this for my entire life, and I'll have an

388
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,639
Speaker 2: episode and then it gets a little bit better, and

389
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,600
Speaker 2: then it'll happen again. Because to my understanding, you've gotten

390
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 2: me to one hundred percent again twice and ever since,

391
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 2: like only when I'm having those episodes? Am I living

392
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,640
Speaker 2: with it? Once the episode has cleared, as you call it,

393
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 2: it's over. It's supposed to be over. You're not supposed

394
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 2: to have any no underlying. It's like it's gone. Am

395
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:29,800
Speaker 2: I right?

396
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 1: Yes? Okay, let's say that you would have never found me.

397
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,000
Speaker 1: Chances are high that in a couple of weeks it

398
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 1: probably would have resolved on its own. Probably so we

399
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 1: don't know if the crystals are reabsorbed by the body

400
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,160
Speaker 1: or if they're put back in the utricle where they belong,

401
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 1: we don't know, but it generally does resolve on its

402
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 1: own after a period of time. I will say that

403
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 1: last week, I saw a patient and she was in

404
00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 1: a car accident eight years ago. She has never seen

405
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 1: a physician for her room spinning vertigo, and she just

406
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: now got to me eight years and I put her

407
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 1: through all the testing positions, and sure enough, it was

408
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: straightforward post to your canal what we call candalathiasis. So

409
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 1: those odconia, those little crystals were just hanging out in

410
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 1: the canal. And I cleared her in one session.

411
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 2: And now she doesn't have any episodes of this at

412
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 2: least until it happens again.

413
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 1: Wow.

414
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 2: But she dealt with it for eight.

415
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: Eight years and we cleared it in one session.

416
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 2: See, it's so crazy because I hear this of so

417
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 2: many people who write me and they're like, yeah, I

418
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 2: deal with this, and I'm just like, you're not supposed to.

419
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,040
Speaker 2: You're really not like you're supposed to be able to

420
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 2: do these maneuvers and get the treatment, and then your

421
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 2: life is supposed to go back until, of course, another

422
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 2: episode happens, and.

423
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Speaker 1: It may not happen, so it could happen again tomorrow,

424
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Speaker 1: it could clear and happen in two weeks. I had

425
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Speaker 1: a patient today that it cleared for twenty five years.

426
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,719
Speaker 2: And then it just came back, and it came back.

427
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 2: It always comes back with a vengeance too. It just

428
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 2: hey honey, I'm home. Yeah, yeah, Wow, I'm back. That's

429
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 2: what's so wild too about Vertigo BPPV. There's just you

430
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 2: guys are the specialist in it, but there's still so

431
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 2: much unknown about how it exists. It's true, what's that

432
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 2: experience like for you? Where like you're just in this

433
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 2: field that's constantly evolving because you don't have every single

434
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 2: detail truly to understand what's happening.

435
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: I feel so honored to be a part of it.

436
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 1: We do a lot of research at Vanderbilt and we're

437
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: trying to add to the literature and help figure out

438
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: all of these answers. But you're right, there's just so

439
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: much that is unknown. I will say there are some

440
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 1: studies going on I believe overseas that they're working on

441
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: a medication. It's in very early stages, but we're trying

442
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: to find answers and some we're trying to find the

443
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: magic pill. Right, that's what everyone who comes to physical

444
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: therapy wants. They want that magic pill. They don't want

445
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: me to put them through the maneuvers that make them sick.

446
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: And vomit, and they just want that magic pill and

447
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: hopefully one day we'll have that, but until then, it's

448
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: just I'm kind of your best.

449
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: It is And it is crazy you say that about

450
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 2: the maneuvers, because every time I did have a treatment

451
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 2: with you, I would get better. But I don't know

452
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 2: also that people understand that when you do the maneuvers,

453
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: even if you're doing like the applay at home, you're

454
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 2: inducing the vertigo. You're moving the crystals around, right, So

455
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 2: it's you're literally what you are trying to avoid happening.

456
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: You're doing, you're moving you in the positions to try

457
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 2: and get them to move back to where they're supposed

458
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 2: to be. And every time I would get done with

459
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,199
Speaker 2: one of our sessions and like I'm out for the cows.

460
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: You guys tomorrow, I'll get better. That was just so

461
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 2: crazy to people, because it's like you went to an appointment,

462
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 2: You're supposed to be better. I'm like, no, I will,

463
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 2: But it's just a little bit different of how that works.

464
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and do you remember one of the number one

465
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: things I told you, So we encourage movement. We don't

466
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: want you to avoid any positions except for right after

467
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: the repositioning. Then we want you to stay pretty still

468
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 1: for a short period of time, but we don't want

469
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: you to be fearful. We don't want you to not

470
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: roll on your right side.

471
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 2: We don't.

472
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: We don't want you to be scared to get up

473
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,360
Speaker 1: out of bed. So we encourage movement and it's important

474
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: for the inner ear.

475
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what's funny is there was a moment because

476
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 2: again when I was going through all these moments, like

477
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 2: I had you, but I still have the internet. I

478
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 2: was still trying to figure out what was happening, and

479
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to get a neck brace,

480
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: and you're like, do not get a neck brace?

481
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, we used to give neck braces out like twenty

482
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: years ago, but it's no longer practice because again, like

483
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 1: that's encouraging the fearful, avoidant behavior that we discourage.

484
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 2: And there is also the side of this like that

485
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 2: I also didn't realize when it first happened because it

486
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: was all first experience. Everything was new to me. But

487
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 2: going through it a second time, my body has PTSD

488
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 2: from this experience where I'm like, do we need a movement?

489
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, we're gonna go spinning be prepared and

490
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 2: it doesn't. But my body's anticipating and almost like it's

491
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 2: like a placebo is happening where my body thinks it's

492
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: spinning but it's not really. That's another side to this too. Okay,

493
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 2: you heal the episode, but your body is still storing

494
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 2: everything that happened to you all goes back to the

495
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 2: body keeps its score, but your body is like still

496
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: in the movement. And you've had to help me on

497
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 2: that side of things too, and that gets into more

498
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: of the physical therapy. So can you share your little

499
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 2: expertise on that side too.

500
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, so when you have Okay, let's say I can't

501
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: remember what your exact symptoms were, but let's say every

502
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: time you roll on your right side, the room goes crazy.

503
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: So then your brain actually gets so used to it

504
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: that after we clear out the mechanical reason for the vertigo,

505
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: so the crystals, when you roll on your right side,

506
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: the brain actually thinks that you're gonna spin, but again

507
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: there's no mechanical reason, and so you don't truly spin.

508
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: But that's that kind of PTST that you're talking about.

509
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 2: And maybe that's not the right word, but it feels

510
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 2: that way in my body, Like that's a good description.

511
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 2: It's like a lingering or Okay, my body's still dealing

512
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: with the trauma of whatever happens, Like here we go.

513
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 2: And we had to retrain my body this last time

514
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 2: to literally roll over on its side, because every time

515
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 2: I rolled over, I was like, I think I'm having

516
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: an episode. You're like, I, you're not. You're cleared, but okay,

517
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 2: we have to retrain your body to understand that you're

518
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: okay and you're safe, like in your own body again.

519
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 1: And so I would have you do it ten times.

520
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 2: And the headshake, I have to stare at an X

521
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 2: on the wall and just shake my head back and

522
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: forth while staring at it. I'm like I would do

523
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 2: them at work and everyone's like, what are you doing.

524
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 2: I'm like, don't worry about it, don't worry about it.

525
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get better.

526
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: And you also you also had li sensitivity too, so

527
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: you would have to wear their spit glasses.

528
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 2: Yes, which also saved my life. Turn into a partnership

529
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: with them too.

530
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: They're amazing.

531
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, like shout out code Morgan, you get easy. You

532
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 2: can get fifteen dollars off. But they were so helpful

533
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 2: because when I was having my episodes and they were

534
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 2: so intense and I had to go to work because

535
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: I can't take a month and a half off work

536
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 2: every time this happens. Right, the their respects allowed me

537
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 2: to be in very lit rooms, much like this podcast

538
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: room where we have lights, and so those specs and

539
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: I was wearing them on the podcast too because it

540
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 2: dimmed everything around me. Yeah, what is that technology of

541
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 2: Like why you guys use those when people have the

542
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: light sensitivity? Because people are asking and I don't know.

543
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 2: I just know they helped.

544
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: I know just enough about this to tell you actually

545
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: have the rose color lenses and they block out twenty

546
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: five times more of whatever it is they block out

547
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: than blue light. Okay, so I can't tell you that,

548
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: And now I can tell you that again. Shout out

549
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: their respec like they have all different color lenses that

550
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: you know, if you've got sensitivity just sunlight, you may

551
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: need this color lens, or if you have sensitivity to

552
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: fluorescent lights, you need this color lens. They can be

553
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: really helpful.

554
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,479
Speaker 2: And this is also something that I newly learned, was

555
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: how connected my eyes were to my balance and inner ears,

556
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 2: which was why I was light sensitive because I wasn't before,

557
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 2: but because I was going through this, Like all of

558
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 2: that connects in there right, yes, in my head.

559
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 1: So I have to be able to see your eyes

560
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: in order to tell where the crystals are in the canals.

561
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: So again, if let's say they beat, there's like an upbeat,

562
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 1: that means post to your canal, down beat into your canal,

563
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: so things like that. So yeah, they're a window to

564
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 1: the inner ear.

565
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: It's so crazy. It reminds you how connected everything is.

566
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: No different, how like your skin is your biggest organ. Yeah,

567
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: you put stuff on that, it's absorbed in your body.

568
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: It's all of that, and you're I'm learning all of

569
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: this and I'm just like, oh, it really is all connected,

570
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,719
Speaker 2: and holy crap, this sucks, but yeah, we are.

571
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: Gosh, when you have an episode, it really is horrendous.

572
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: But what I tell my patients is that when you've

573
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: had it once, you now know what it is and

574
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: it's going to be less scary than next time around

575
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: because you know that there is a quick fix.

576
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: Yes, and that was exactly what happened the second time.

577
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 2: I knew exactly what to do. I need to call you, yeah,

578
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: or I don't tell you yeah, I was like, Holly,

579
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: I need help. This happened again, but I also knew,

580
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: so the second time it happened, I was like, Okay,

581
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 2: this is vertigo. I knew that I was about to

582
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 2: have this experience. It didn't make it any less easy,

583
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 2: Like I was still like, couldn't get out of bed.

584
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: I still was like literally laying naked on the bathroom floor.

585
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm sweating. This is painful and not

586
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 2: in the way that you think, but painful, like my

587
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: body is just like going through it. But I knew

588
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: that I needed you to do these maneuvers and to

589
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: understand what was happening. So it was a at least

590
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 2: easier process than me having zero information, which is why

591
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: the podcast was so important because there's so many people

592
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: out here that are dealing with this. Yeah. So in

593
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: speaking of all of these people, there were some people

594
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 2: that put in some questions, and we've talked about some

595
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: of them, but we'll have you reiterate because they ask

596
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: the question, Okay, she had. One lady says she has

597
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: a patient with maneirs who has tried everything any suggestions

598
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 2: to potentially help her, and that's the only context I have,

599
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 2: So I have no idea what all they tried, but

600
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: I don't know if this is anything you can help with.

601
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: So maneirs it. It can also present with vertigo, look

602
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: and persent with disneyness, balance impairment, all all of the

603
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: vestibular symptoms, but the repositioning maneuvers that take it away

604
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: immediately aren't going to work. So we always start with

605
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: diet and lifestyle modifications for maneirs. So you really want

606
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: to decrease the salt intake and decrease the fluid behind

607
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: the ear. That's where we start. And then you need

608
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,959
Speaker 1: a good vestibular therapist that actually knows what mineirs is.

609
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: And also a lot of times patients are misdiagnosed as well.

610
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: A lot of times patients come in with the diagnosis

611
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: of manears and it's actually vestibular migraines.

612
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 2: So what is the similarities? Tell me what each one

613
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 2: is to you and your like expert opinion.

614
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: They just share a lot of the same symptoms. Okay,

615
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: is the problem.

616
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 2: So I'm thinking vestibular migraines are like very intense headaches,

617
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: like very painful, and maybe you have some lightheadedness dizziness

618
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: with it maneers. If I remember my research correctly is

619
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: like you have like something's happening within your ear anatomy

620
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: that's causing the vertigo to happen.

621
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, yes, son, there's a lot of fluid going

622
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: on behind the ears. One day the person can walk

623
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: down the hallway just fine, and the following day they

624
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: can have an attack and literally be falling into the walls.

625
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: It's a wild presentation. Vestibular migraine is very different. And

626
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: the fact that you actually, I believe it's greater than

627
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: sixty percent, don't actually have the head component.

628
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 2: Interesting.

629
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: You just have the vestibular symptoms. You can have the

630
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: visual auras and all of that, but there's actually no pain.

631
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: So that's why it goes mistagnosed a lot.

632
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, that's super interesting because I associate migraine with

633
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: headache pain because migraine is just like an amplified headache

634
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 2: to my understanding. So when you said that, I was like, oh, yeah,

635
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: that's what's that's crazy. Okay, So hopefully that's some helpful things.

636
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: Maybe guys have it, but again I don't have any

637
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: other context like what all I've tried and what I've done.

638
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: Let's say, in that case, just find your nearest vestibular.

639
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 2: Pet Okay, yeah, that's good information. Can stress cause vertigo

640
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 2: to flare up?

641
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: Not from a crystal standpoint, Okay, so it can. It

642
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: is one of the triggers for say, vestibular migraine. So

643
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: a lot of times patients will have to be medically

644
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: managed with medications things like that because they can't avoid

645
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: the stress of a really hard job, or their in

646
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: laws just moved into their home, so things like that.

647
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: It can trigger symptoms of dizzyness. Absolutely, but it will.

648
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: It's not connected to BPPV.

649
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: Okay. See, And this is crazy about just all these

650
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: different areas, is like there can be so much happening

651
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: in there, and you really need someone like a Holly

652
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: to understand the anatomy and what's going on in there

653
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 2: because it can go so mis diagnosed on multiple levels.

654
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 2: To your point, like not just manures, but all of them.

655
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 2: At least, this is how it's sounding to me. Why

656
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: does vertigo benign happen out of nowhere during perimenopause for

657
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: some people? Do you know any connection to that?

658
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: Great question? We are still looking into that. So we

659
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: know that hormones are they have an effect on the

660
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: vestibular system. But we just we don't know enough.

661
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: See that's so crazy. Yeah, but it is connected. There

662
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 2: is something that's happening with we think.

663
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: So Okay, I can't completely be sure yet. Yeah, it's

664
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: And also you've got to think though the average person,

665
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: the initial onset of BPPV is from age fifty to seventy.

666
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: Im peramenopause is happening around them.

667
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: So is it just coincidence or is there actually a connection?

668
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: Wow? Okay, And that's also hard if you're experiencing both

669
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 2: at the same time.

670
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 1: I know, sweet ladies, I know that hurts.

671
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: Do some exercises, which we touched on this, but do

672
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 2: some exercises such as burpies or handstands bring on vertigo so.

673
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: They can They absolutely can. High intensity aerobic workouts kind

674
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: of like a similar like blow to the head can

675
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: make the crystals come loose. Now again worrying you are

676
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 1: a bit of a special one. We just generally don't

677
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: see it in someone as young as you. But that

678
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: we made that direct connection. You went to that class,

679
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: you woke up the next morning. It was hard to

680
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: not be able to connect those two.

681
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And because I then did that and knocked it loose,

682
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: I was more likely for it to happen again. Yeah,

683
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: that was that connection, correct, stupid trampling class. Don't work out.

684
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: That's what I've learned in all this.

685
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: Don't work out, No curdio.

686
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, I'm over here, I doing like hit workouts and

687
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 2: welcome to my life. But what you have also always

688
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: told me is you can't be fearful and you can't

689
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: live your life fear of it happening. Because this is

690
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: something so important to say, and I want you to

691
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 2: say in your own words, but like, it's gonna happen

692
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: no matter what.

693
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, So whether you are sitting on the couch or

694
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: you were out having fun with your friends and living

695
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: your life. If those crystals come loose, they come loose.

696
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: It's going to happen, whether you like it or not.

697
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was an important thing for you to

698
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: tell me because that made me not fearful because it

699
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: didn't matter what I was doing. Yes, things like hit

700
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: workouts could potentially aggravate it and make it happen quicker,

701
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: but you telling me that was like, Okay, this happening regardless.

702
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: I can go out and have my life and it'll

703
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: be fine. It's gonna happen regardless, so I might as

704
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: well enjoy what I can't do in the moment.

705
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we don't know who it's gonna happen to,

706
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,959
Speaker 1: So just because your mom had it or your aunt

707
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: had it, it doesn't mean that you're going to have it.

708
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: It's not genetic either, not which wasn't important detail. You

709
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 2: also told me because nobody in my family ever had it,

710
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 2: And you were like, yeah, it's not you just you

711
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 2: get picked out of the letter.

712
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: You're just one of the lucky ones. We were meant

713
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: to be friends.

714
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: That's why we were That's exactly why I was supposed

715
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 2: to happen. Okay, and some of these other ones came

716
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 2: in here, but they're funny. You'll make you laugh. Yes,

717
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: why like why does this happen?

718
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: We don't know.

719
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: We're learning about our systems and everything. Then another one

720
00:36:55,160 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: was why does my vestibular system hate me? Girl with finears? Oh,

721
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 2: so maybe you can give her some words of wisdom

722
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: or some something to make her feel better, because you

723
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: made me feel better in a lot of hard moments

724
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: for me.

725
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: So with any vestibular diagnoses, life gets better. You just

726
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: have to have the right treatment. And it's so for

727
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: me as a vestibular specialist, it's so frustrating when patients

728
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: come in like this week, girl. I can help you,

729
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 1: my colleagues, we can help you. There's treatment. We can

730
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: make you live a normal life. We can make you

731
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: have funny it and not be fearful. Yeah, there is treatment.

732
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,479
Speaker 1: There's not a magic pill. It's a little bit of work.

733
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: BPPV is a quick fix. We love BPPV one quick maneuver.

734
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 2: Say we I don't and also it was not quick

735
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 2: for me, so don't look at me.

736
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: So other vestibular therapiuse we love bpp it's super straightforward.

737
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 1: It's again, you come in with these possessional changes. We

738
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 1: do a quick maneuver and you're done. Other diagnoses like

739
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: vestibular hypo functions, weaknesses, HER's, vestibular migrants, they require a

740
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: little bit of work, a lot of homework actually, yeah.

741
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: And it sounds like some of them come with lifestyle changes,

742
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 2: which is some of the hardest illnesses to deal with.

743
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: Bea and migraine. I'm sorry, diet and things like.

744
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: That, changing things in your entire life. Whereas mine, I

745
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 2: just have to come in and you have to keep

746
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 2: working me through treatment. And then one day it'll be

747
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 2: over and until the next time kind of thing. I

748
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: do understand that side of it too. And this is

749
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 2: another one we had already answered, but he had asked,

750
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 2: how do I get rid of reoccurring BPPB? Although mild,

751
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 2: sometimes I'm just tired of it? I understand how do.

752
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: You get rid of it?

753
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 2: You come see me, you get treatment, because isn't it

754
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: also possible too, because this was something I had to learn,

755
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 2: Like just going to a regular physical therapist, although incredibly

756
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 2: helpful in so many scenarios, I had gone to one

757
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 2: and the only maneuver he knew was EPLE and for

758
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 2: me specifically, Epley was not going to help me.

759
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes the modified Apley just doesn't work in your case.

760
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 1: It it just isn't the magic ticket. So I think

761
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: we think we tried to lead maneuver on you. The SMONT.

762
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: There are a couple of different things, but again it's

763
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: not always post your anterior. So if you go to

764
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 1: a general orthopedic physical therapist and they put you in

765
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: the testing positions, they may not have the equipment that

766
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: I have. Specifically, I have these video goggles. They help

767
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: me see your eyes without letting your brain fixate. So

768
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: if your eyes can fixate on something, your brain can

769
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: shut down the nastagnus or the eye movement that I'm

770
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: looking for, and that helps us with diagnosis. And if

771
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: you go to an orthopedic peach, they may not have

772
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: that specialty equipment and then they may not be able

773
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: to see what they need to see and they won't

774
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: be able to treat you.

775
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,479
Speaker 2: Which that was so helpful for you in understanding which

776
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: maneuvers you had to do on me and not just

777
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: having the one repertoire of Eppily you need in multiple

778
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 2: which was so important. And again that was a part

779
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 2: of my learning journey because I had somebody do an

780
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: Eppley mover on me and I was like, I'm not better. Okay,

781
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: you guys are all lying on the internet.

782
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: I feel like crap, and your canal's converted to so

783
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: you were again like one canal and then it converted

784
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: to another, and so we had to switch it up.

785
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 2: And how often, like I know, you say I'm special,

786
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 2: but that's not just me. There's a lot of people

787
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 2: out there that have those experiences, and they could be

788
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 2: seeing the things online that were like we can do

789
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 2: this and this will work when in reality, like, it

790
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,279
Speaker 2: always helps to have an expert like a Hollie. If

791
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 2: you're not in Nashville or around Nashville, find a vestibular specialist.

792
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: That is the key to looking for right like It's true,

793
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 2: So finding a youth somewhere else.

794
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can give it a shot at home by yourself.

795
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: So you can look up the modified deptly online and

796
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 1: fifty to fifty guests the correct side and try to

797
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: treat yourself. The problem with treating yourself is that you

798
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: can actually make it a little bit.

799
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: Worse, which is what I did.

800
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: So if you make it worse, it can actually convert

801
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: to a more difficult canal like the horizontal canal, and

802
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: even worse than that, the crystals can actually go from

803
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: the canal to the cubula, which is a jelly like

804
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: material where the crystals get stuck. And then what do

805
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: you have to do when something get stuck, You have

806
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: to knock it loose. So then we've got to knock

807
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: out the crystals and then clear them from the canal.

808
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: Which I also had experience with this, and you called

809
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: the cubula jelly like substance, So I really used a

810
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 2: lot of normal people terms like rocky wall and jelly

811
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 2: like substance and crystals and those are not the medical terms.

812
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: Yeah no, but that's what we use. That's how I

813
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: describe it. Like in the utricle, in that balance organ

814
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: where the odconia sit, it is just this really rocky

815
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: wall and that's where they come off. They just fall

816
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: right off.

817
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 2: But honestly, when you were using all of those, it

818
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: gave me the best understanding of what was happening.

819
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: To me because a whush is my favorite word.

820
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do love to use bushes and I had

821
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 2: a lot of those, so I'd be like, I'm having

822
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 2: a wash.

823
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that's not normal.

824
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,919
Speaker 2: Okay, let's figure this out. And that was an easy

825
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: way to also describe it. But it did because it

826
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 2: and it was funny when we talked about it on

827
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: the show. Everybody's we're talking about crystals. This is so

828
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 2: like woo stuff. I'm like, no, you all have them.

829
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 2: I'm just the only one that's actually dealing with them.

830
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: That's true. So everyone has them. They are. So you've

831
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: got two balanced organs on each side, so you have

832
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: a utricle on a secule on both the right and

833
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: the left side. And so you've got your three semi

834
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: circular canals. Let's say we're talking about the right side,

835
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: and the utricle sits like this, the saccule sits like this.

836
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: So you've got crystals in here and in here, but

837
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: the utrical blocks the saccule, So the crystals are only

838
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: going to come out from here into the canals.

839
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: Which is where the maneuvers come into play. And that's

840
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 2: why I get rotated like I'm askew on a group

841
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 2: bibercu rol because you're literally moving those crystals through these

842
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: canals in the ways that they can be moved.

843
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: That's correct, because if you do it.

844
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 2: The wrong way, they're not gonna move.

845
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: They're going to go into that jelly like yeah.

846
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 2: Which was not fun. Let me tell you. That was

847
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 2: probably the worst experience. I literally like to Holly as

848
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna vomit gets sick.

849
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's one day which happens from time to time.

850
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: Usually I can catch it, but it does happen.

851
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. And to Holly's credit, and Vanderbilt is so awesome,

852
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 2: they not only had a.

853
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: A what is Norman called our facility dog Norman.

854
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he has a service dog.

855
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:26,760
Speaker 1: I love Norman.

856
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I had a service dog with me and

857
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: so many of these treatments. But then on top of that,

858
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 2: like when I'd get super sweaty being induced with the verdigo,

859
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 2: they'd come in and they just like weigh me down

860
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 2: with all of these packs of.

861
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,399
Speaker 1: It's true, yeah, because it helps with nausea. Oh, it's

862
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: a magic trick.

863
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: Okay, talk about the magic trick that is the rubbing

864
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 2: alcohol by the nose.

865
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, same. It's like the same as an ice pack,

866
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: So it has an effect on you and it decreases

867
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: the nausea. So you're just amazing.

868
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: Get a little like piece of paper and you put

869
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:58,919
Speaker 2: rubbing alcohol. Is that what it is?

870
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: We have the little rubbingcohol pads Okay, just and I

871
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 1: just held it up against your nose.

872
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: And it stopped the nausea. If I'm coming. Can that

873
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 2: happen with all kinds of nausea or specifically related to this? Yeah?

874
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,240
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's so crazy.

875
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 2: I learned about that too. See all the things that

876
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 2: I learned in this experience.

877
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 1: And ice pecs, So icepecs are my go to and

878
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: then I use okay, the rubbing alcohol.

879
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, because the ice pects do feel really good because

880
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 2: your body is like heating up. It's like you're kind

881
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 2: of like a core and it's gonna.

882
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it gets so clammy and sweaty. And again people

883
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: do get sick, which.

884
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 2: Is yeah, you guys sent me home with one of

885
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 2: those throw up. I'm pretty sure it's still in my car.

886
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, somebody ever sees this, like, well, what is

887
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: wrong with this woman? It's fine, just in case.

888
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: It's so interesting to me though, some patients come in

889
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 1: with a lot of nausea and they're super super sensitive

890
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: to the maneuvers like you, And then other patients that

891
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: come in they just have zero nausea, zero, zero complaints,

892
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: will I'm doing it, and then they just run on

893
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: their way. It's fascinating to me that everyone's system is

894
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: so different.

895
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: I do wonder too, if there's a connection for me

896
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 2: and that because I have like growing up, I've always gotten.

897
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: This is why I hate roller coasters.

898
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 2: They made me so ill, so ill, but also I

899
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: hate the drop that you get in your builth. But

900
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 2: more than that, like I get literally violently ill, and

901
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 2: I get car sickness. I get sick on boats. I've

902
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 2: had always had a this dizziness, and like, whenever I've

903
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: gotten sick just a freaking common cold, I have nausea

904
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: or I have lightheadedness. Also I think about in the

905
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 2: course and if I ever were to have a child,

906
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 2: and that's gonna be freaking sick all the time. Yeah,

907
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: So I think about those things because this is my

908
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 2: symptom of anything is oh, you're gonna be vomiting. You

909
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,320
Speaker 2: got a little stuff, you knows, vomit. That's just my life.

910
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 2: And so I do wonder if you have sensitivity in

911
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: your life, then like something like this happens, and all

912
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 2: it does is yeah, maybe it has to because not

913
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 2: everybody feels that way in all of those experiences, right right, No,

914
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 2: it's true. So then you get two different people with vertigo,

915
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 2: one like me and one that doesn't, and they're like, no,

916
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 2: it's fine, where my body's like, yeah, no, we hate this,

917
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: We're good. Systems are so weird, which is also why

918
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 2: I wanted to bring you on and just talk about

919
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 2: just the craziness of all of this. So many people

920
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 2: deal with it. You don't have to be alone in

921
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: dealing with it. You can also get treatment, like you

922
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: don't have to live with this and I.

923
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: Think that's the take home of today, and that's what

924
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 1: you and I wanted to get across to everyone, is like,

925
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: there is hope, there is an answer, there is treatment,

926
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: and there's in BPPV alone specifically, there's quick treatment. You

927
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: just have to go to the right therapist. Not all

928
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: physical therapists are created equal. Just like I said earlier,

929
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: you're not going to come to me for me to

930
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 1: fix your shoulder.

931
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you are a very specific thing. So the thing

932
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 2: that we always do and leave on this podcast is

933
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 2: like whether it be a piece of advice and motivation,

934
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 2: and that might have just been it. We might have

935
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 2: just had our closure. Is there anything that we haven't

936
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 2: talked about that you wanted to make sure you've shared

937
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 2: in this whole kind of experience of our friendship and

938
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 2: vertico treatment.

939
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: I think it's important to me as a vestibular specialist

940
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: that all my patients know that they don't have to

941
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 1: be scared, and like you said, they're not alone. So

942
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: many people suffer from vestibular diagnoses and illnesses, but there's

943
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 1: treatment and you have to find the right therapist. So

944
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:36,439
Speaker 1: I just kind of want to give like a little

945
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: shout out if you are watching this podcast and you

946
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: don't know where to go. There is a website called APTA,

947
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: and if you type in APTA vestibular map up Providers,

948
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: then it's going to pop up all the states and

949
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: all the vestibular providers that are part of the APTA,

950
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: so American Fiscal Therapy Association. So that's a really easy

951
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: way to find a therapist that's specialized. Is in vertigo,

952
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: or you can come to Vanderbilt and see me and

953
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 1: my colleagues. We are at Pibet Defier Rehab and we love.

954
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 2: What we do, which you should absolutely see Holly and

955
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 2: her colleagues if you are in the area. But if

956
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 2: you're not, Dang, that tool is awesome. I didn't know

957
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 2: that existed.

958
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: It's the best resource. And so I just really want

959
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: everyone to know that you don't have to come eight

960
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 1: hours to see us. They are particular specialists all over

961
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: the country.

962
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, Holly, you did so good. I know you

963
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 2: were nervous about doing this. We did so great, ye

964
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 2: And I appreciate you coming on and like sharing all

965
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 2: of your wisdom and expertise, because as much as you

966
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: pie don't want ad minute, you are an expert in

967
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 2: what you're doing, and you're you're doing like the work

968
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: that matters, and you're changing people's lives.

969
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: That's really sweet. I love what I do. It makes

970
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: me happy every day.

971
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 2: Yay, thank you for coming on. I appreciate it. Thanks

972
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 2: so many takeaways during this episode. Our health is such

973
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: a huge part of our lives and BPBV is debilitating

974
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 2: and so I would not wish on anyone. So if

975
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 2: you're a fellow sufferer or anything impacted by vertigo, I

976
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: hope this episode helps you find some very deserved relief.

977
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 2: Thank you all for being here, and as always, I

978
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 2: love you.

979
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 1: I'll talk to you next week.