Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the
Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyan, and today in the show, I'm joined by
Speaker 1: Kip Adams of the National Deer Association to explore the
Speaker 1: current state of deer and deer hunting across the country
Speaker 1: and the news trends and issues we need to pay
Speaker 1: attention to. In all right, welcome to the Wired Hunt Podcast,
Speaker 1: brought to you by First Light. Today we are beginning,
Speaker 1: I guess what you can loosely call conservation Month here
Speaker 1: on the Wired Hunt podcast, starting this week and over
Speaker 1: the next three four five weeks, maybe I want to
Speaker 1: explore a series of different ideas and topics where related
Speaker 1: to how we have this awesome thing we call deer hunting.
Speaker 1: How it is that we have deer and wild places
Speaker 1: to chase him, and the good fortune to enjoy this
Speaker 1: lifestyle that we love so much. I want to, you know,
Speaker 1: take a little time here in the off season to
Speaker 1: talk about those things, to talk about how we got here,
Speaker 1: to talk about what we need to do now to
Speaker 1: make sure we can keep having these great things. So
Speaker 1: that's the game plan. It's gonna be interesting. I'm excited
Speaker 1: about it, and starts today with Kip Adams. Most of
Speaker 1: you probably know Kip. Kip is the chief Conservation Officer
Speaker 1: for the National Deer Association and he's a part of
Speaker 1: an annual project in which the NBA puts together their
Speaker 1: Deer Report, their White Tail Report they've been doing for
Speaker 1: years now, in which they break down all sorts of
Speaker 1: different trends as far as deer harvest, as far as
Speaker 1: different things going on with regulations, with participation, UH, basically
Speaker 1: getting a census of what's happening in the world of
Speaker 1: deer hunting across the country over the past year. So
Speaker 1: they just released their version of this and today we're
Speaker 1: gonna take a little bit of time to walk through
Speaker 1: some of the key findings here. How things are going
Speaker 1: as far as deer harvest, as far as the deer
Speaker 1: age structure, as far as you know, different trends related
Speaker 1: to how we as hunters are doing and how the
Speaker 1: herd is doing across the country. We get some updates
Speaker 1: and where things stand with disease. We break down different
Speaker 1: upcoming legislation that will be important for deer and deer hunters,
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about you know, kIPS overall feelings
Speaker 1: on how we are doing in the world of white
Speaker 1: tails now compared to where we were ten years ago
Speaker 1: or twenty years ago. We explore where he sees things headed,
Speaker 1: what's keeping him up at night, what's got him excited,
Speaker 1: and what are the things that we all as deer
Speaker 1: hunters on the ground, need to be doing this year
Speaker 1: to make sure we've got great deer hunting in the future.
Speaker 1: So this is a pretty quick one that I think
Speaker 1: is important for all of us to just get a
Speaker 1: general sense of what's happening, what do I need to
Speaker 1: pay attention to, and what can I do. That's our
Speaker 1: game plan for today. That's our mission, I think is
Speaker 1: deer hunters right. We have to go out there and
Speaker 1: enjoy this incredible fun activity. We get to harvest deer.
Speaker 1: We put deer in the freezer and antlers on the wall.
Speaker 1: But if we're gonna take stuff from the land, we
Speaker 1: got to give something back. And this is the first
Speaker 1: step in learning how exactly to do that by making
Speaker 1: sure we are informed on what the hell is going on.
Speaker 1: So that's the plan for today. Appreciate you listening, Thanks
Speaker 1: for being here and i'd say, now, let's just get
Speaker 1: to chat with Kip here we go. All right, I've
Speaker 1: got Kip Adams with me here now again on the show. Kip,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for making a return appearance. Absolutely, Mark,
Speaker 1: always good to talk with you. I feel like you
Speaker 1: may be one of the very most visited guests I've
Speaker 1: had on the show over the years. I mean, we've
Speaker 1: done at least one every year, if not multiple some years,
Speaker 1: and we're approaching, gosh, approaching not quite there, but almost
Speaker 1: ten years of the show. So jeez, I appreciate you
Speaker 1: having patience to keep on coming on here and talking
Speaker 1: with me. Well, I'm honored, and how I'm glad that
Speaker 1: I at least have something that's I guess a little
Speaker 1: interesting to say that you keep invite me back and
Speaker 1: you always given how many we've done, I guess that
Speaker 1: that that's starting to date both of us. I guess, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. We've we've been around a while, and uh,
Speaker 1: I don't know how that happened, Like like we were
Speaker 1: just talking about before we started recording. It's it's crazy
Speaker 1: how fast stuff goes. I uh, it's kind of bizarre.
Speaker 1: Looking over the last ten fifteen years, and seeing seeing
Speaker 1: everything that's happened. But I'm glad we're here still. Yeah,
Speaker 1: me too. A lot of a lot of good stuff.
Speaker 1: So and I always enjoyed talking with you, so well,
Speaker 1: we got good stuff to talk about today. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm excited to dig in here because, as we've done
Speaker 1: every year, right around this time of year, I wanted
Speaker 1: to kind of have you help us get a sense of,
Speaker 1: I guess, a pulse on the white tail nation. You know,
Speaker 1: how things are going across the country when it comes
Speaker 1: to white tails, How are we as hunters positioned moving
Speaker 1: into the future. What are the things we need to
Speaker 1: be thinking about in the future. You know, you guys
Speaker 1: at the National Deer Association have done such a good
Speaker 1: job of um not only educating folks and advocating for folks,
Speaker 1: but really keeping us up to date on on what's
Speaker 1: happening and what's important and what we need to be
Speaker 1: focusing on. So that's kind of what I'm hoping we
Speaker 1: can do here again, Kip. And you've got the new
Speaker 1: white Tail Report that you guys put out every year
Speaker 1: that's out now, right, And I guess what I would
Speaker 1: be curious to start with is the same question. We
Speaker 1: actually started with the last year. You probably don't remember this,
Speaker 1: but um, if you were to take a step back
Speaker 1: and look at the general state of affairs for white
Speaker 1: tailed deer and deer hunters across the country right now,
Speaker 1: and if you could write that from a scale of
Speaker 1: one to ten, one being we're on a deep pit
Speaker 1: of a spare and ten being we are flying high
Speaker 1: times there as good as ever been. Where would you
Speaker 1: say we where are we coming on that scoreboard? We're
Speaker 1: we're about an eight and uh, and there's some really
Speaker 1: positive things mark that that would likely have that a
Speaker 1: little bit higher, but that that don't c w d
Speaker 1: that there continues to plague us UH is going to
Speaker 1: pull us down a little bit. But man, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of positive things going on. So at least a
Speaker 1: seven for sure, and I think closer to and eight.
Speaker 1: I like it. Now. You talked about the fact that
Speaker 1: you and I are dating ourselves, and we've been around
Speaker 1: for quite a while doing this. How would you how
Speaker 1: would you say we sit compared to let's say, ten
Speaker 1: years ago, when you and I were having conversations back
Speaker 1: when I was still in my old day job, sitting
Speaker 1: in the office all day Um, how would you say
Speaker 1: things stand now so versus the majority of things in
Speaker 1: the dear world today are far better than they were
Speaker 1: a decade ago, um, c w D being the one
Speaker 1: big exception to that. But overall we have we have
Speaker 1: some really healthy deer hurts from an age structure standpoint,
Speaker 1: you know, we have some some great harvest from both
Speaker 1: of the buck and the a On the side, we
Speaker 1: have more habitat weren't going on than ever before. We
Speaker 1: have more hunters that are engaged than ever before. So
Speaker 1: most of what's going on in the deer world is
Speaker 1: really really good and continues to improve decade over decade.
Speaker 1: That that whole c w D thing is pulling us
Speaker 1: back some and I'm sure we'll address that at some
Speaker 1: point here. But other than that, Uh, yeah, we we've
Speaker 1: moved forward in the past decade. And that's a testament
Speaker 1: to America's deer hunters and in our state will life agencies.
Speaker 1: So then let's look the other direction. If you were
Speaker 1: to read the tea leaves and look, you know, we
Speaker 1: know what's happened over the last ten years. We know
Speaker 1: where we are right now. UM. Knowing the things that
Speaker 1: you know in the various conservation legislation late legis relative
Speaker 1: issues you're part of and seeing the trajectory of our
Speaker 1: culture and habitat and wildlife populations, how good do you
Speaker 1: feel about ten years from now? So how do you
Speaker 1: think things are gonna look in I think that we're
Speaker 1: going to be way better relative to the disease game
Speaker 1: than we are today. Um. I think there's some federal legislation,
Speaker 1: UH that we've been working with that's going to provide
Speaker 1: a bunch of relief for state wilife agencies to help
Speaker 1: provide more funds to battle c w D. UM that
Speaker 1: the trend relative to people wanting to enhance habitat for
Speaker 1: dear another wildlife continues to increase. So I think that's
Speaker 1: going to play out very well for us. And of
Speaker 1: course there's so much good research going on around the
Speaker 1: country right now about deer that uh it's positioning state
Speaker 1: wildlife agencies very well that to have the tools that
Speaker 1: they need to continue to implement wise hunting seasons and
Speaker 1: enhance health of deer hurts. So M I think that
Speaker 1: we are We're poised, you know, for the next decade UM,
Speaker 1: partly because of hunter engagement, but also partly because of
Speaker 1: programs mark that are looking at and increasing the knowledge
Speaker 1: around the value of deer um. This year's Southeast Your
Speaker 1: Study group is a perfect example. You know, we're hosting
Speaker 1: this and the theme is the value of deer and
Speaker 1: deer hunting to the American public um. Only about four
Speaker 1: percent of the US population buy the hunting license. And
Speaker 1: what we see today is that while hunters fund the
Speaker 1: lion's share of wildlife management and all of our programs,
Speaker 1: you know, it's going to take more than just hunters
Speaker 1: to continue to keep wildlife healthy. UM. So as we
Speaker 1: start showing more of the impacts and in the value
Speaker 1: of deer and deer hunters to all society at large.
Speaker 1: And you have done a great job of this, you know,
Speaker 1: with your work and just making people realize how important
Speaker 1: deer are. As that continues to grow, I think it
Speaker 1: just paints a better picture for the future of dear,
Speaker 1: dear management and then a ball the waller species a
Speaker 1: dear impact. So so I see the next ten years
Speaker 1: as an exciting time for for managers and sportsmen and women,
Speaker 1: and I'm looking forward to it. I'm glad to hear it.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that that that you're feeling good
Speaker 1: about where we're headed. Um I can see a lot
Speaker 1: of those same things, and that's that's exciting. That's that's
Speaker 1: I remember. I don't know what year this was, maybe
Speaker 1: two thousand and thirteen, so almost ten years ago, twous
Speaker 1: thirteen fourteen. Somewhere around the twelve thirteen fourteen, when we
Speaker 1: had a little bit of a scare I felt within
Speaker 1: the hunting community. You know, everyone started seeing herds dropping
Speaker 1: across some states with e h D really popping up,
Speaker 1: and there was you know, more concerns of course around
Speaker 1: c w D and hunter numbers were plummeting, and there
Speaker 1: was this this period of oh have we lost the
Speaker 1: good old days? And it seems like we recovered from
Speaker 1: that pretty nicely. I think if if you had been
Speaker 1: if we've been talking that year when we all got
Speaker 1: together and the National Deer Alliance was started, you know,
Speaker 1: right around that time, given some of those concerns, I
Speaker 1: think if you told us, well, it's gonna be an
Speaker 1: eight and we're gonna be feeling pretty good about two,
Speaker 1: I think both of us would have been pretty pleased
Speaker 1: to see, you know, where things have gone since that period.
Speaker 1: Um ah am, I right on that do have. We
Speaker 1: made a strong, a strong stride there. Yeah, you are
Speaker 1: spot on, you know that two thousand fifteen, two sixteen,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of that era, we had several variables
Speaker 1: come together to really kick deer in the seat of
Speaker 1: the pants. So we had terrible hemorrhagic disease outbreaks here,
Speaker 1: but we had to one hundred year disease outbreaks within
Speaker 1: a five year period. That's when all that land come
Speaker 1: out of CRP and you know, in the Midwest lost
Speaker 1: like seven million acres of wildlife habitat. We had increasing
Speaker 1: predator popular labbertain areas and plummeting falling the cooper rates.
Speaker 1: So there was a lot went out at that time
Speaker 1: that we're really you know, hitting dear hard and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, true to their form, you know, deer or
Speaker 1: one of the most resilient species there are. And so
Speaker 1: with some good manager programs, with hunters stepping in, those
Speaker 1: deer herbs have have really recovered since then. And uh, heck,
Speaker 1: looking season, Uh we shot over six million white tails,
Speaker 1: which which is you know, the most that we have
Speaker 1: shot in a long long time. So yeah, things are
Speaker 1: far far brighter today than they were back somewhere around
Speaker 1: So what do you think? What do you think the
Speaker 1: what do you think? The headline then is if we're
Speaker 1: we're coming off of this banner year in what's what
Speaker 1: stands out to you is you've gone through, You've scanned
Speaker 1: through the numbers, You've interviewed and talked to various people
Speaker 1: across wildlife agencies. You guys have compiled the data, You've
Speaker 1: put together two white tail report. What stands out for
Speaker 1: you as as the big takeaways as we look back
Speaker 1: on this past year or two. I think that this
Speaker 1: past hunting season one that we just came out of
Speaker 1: and uh, and and there are some states that literally
Speaker 1: are just ending the season right now. So I think
Speaker 1: the harvest is going to be down, you know, once
Speaker 1: all those numbers are in. This past year, UM, much
Speaker 1: of the US had unseasonably warm temperatures through you know,
Speaker 1: much the firearms seasons, you know, well into December, and UH,
Speaker 1: if you have the early reports that you know, the
Speaker 1: agencies that can compili dated very quickly or any um
Speaker 1: product of what all the states are going to see
Speaker 1: a lot of states were down a little bit, but
Speaker 1: we have to remember the reporting that they were down,
Speaker 1: you know from the twenty into te season of which
Speaker 1: was a historic season where you know, we shot all
Speaker 1: those dewers. So what that means is, as hunters, we
Speaker 1: tend to look at the headlines and allow that to
Speaker 1: dictate whether last season was good or not. Well, we're
Speaker 1: a historically high numbers going into this past season. So
Speaker 1: even if it was down it and I think it
Speaker 1: probably will have a show to be down. Um, it
Speaker 1: was still a really high harvest this last year. So
Speaker 1: that means is we have a lot of deer in
Speaker 1: the landscape. There are tremendous opportunities for for hunters across
Speaker 1: the United States to go afield, you know, and and
Speaker 1: fill the freezers with deer. So so that's good and
Speaker 1: uh so I'm gonna have to remind myself but even
Speaker 1: though maybe we didn't see quite as many dear this
Speaker 1: past year as the year before, I think that was
Speaker 1: a lot more related to just, uh, you know those
Speaker 1: weather patterns, you know, those uncommon weather patterns, more so
Speaker 1: than actual deer numbers. Yeah, you know it. We're so
Speaker 1: it's so human to get wrapped up in like what
Speaker 1: have you done for me lately? And numbers like what's
Speaker 1: the population number or what's the harvest number of this
Speaker 1: past year, and then we have a tendency to maybe
Speaker 1: overact sometimes to that probably just like you know, we
Speaker 1: might overreact about, well, how do my stock portfolio perform
Speaker 1: over the last quarter, and if it's down six percent
Speaker 1: this quarter or this year, you know, it's a hannock.
Speaker 1: But if you look at the long term trajectory of
Speaker 1: the tao or whatever over the course of ten years,
Speaker 1: if you can weather the storms every once in a while,
Speaker 1: it's still going to keep on going. And I imagine
Speaker 1: oftentimes that's what we see with wildlife populations, is that
Speaker 1: they will be these little blips, but general trends are
Speaker 1: maybe more important. But I'm curious, you know, if if
Speaker 1: we well, maybe that's not I'm trying to what I'm
Speaker 1: trying to ask here, Kip, is is our harvest? So
Speaker 1: total harvest number for a state or for the country,
Speaker 1: is that a good way to measure the quality of
Speaker 1: our dear herd? Or is there a better way that
Speaker 1: we can look at either are states or nation or
Speaker 1: region and determined like, hey, is this in a good
Speaker 1: place or not? Because it's easy to say more is better,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if that's necessarily case, is something
Speaker 1: like age, structure or or something else a better comparometer
Speaker 1: of how good things are. M it really is. And
Speaker 1: of course we want to look at what the total
Speaker 1: harvest is, and that's an important number to look at.
Speaker 1: Does not tell the whole story at all. As you
Speaker 1: alluded to, Um, there are some states that are trying
Speaker 1: to dramatically reduce deer herds. You know, they just have
Speaker 1: deer hers are way higher than what the habitats can support,
Speaker 1: so really high buck harvest there. You know. While some
Speaker 1: hunters will look at that say, man, this is great,
Speaker 1: the reality of it is that's not creating a healthy situation,
Speaker 1: you know, because those deer herbs continue to climb, you know,
Speaker 1: higher than you know than they should be, you know.
Speaker 1: So what's what's the better way to look at is sure,
Speaker 1: let's look the whole number. That's fun, but let's dig
Speaker 1: into it a little bit and say, okay, let's break
Speaker 1: that total harvest down by ant limd bucks and antalysts deer.
Speaker 1: Let's make sure that those are balanced. Most states need
Speaker 1: to harvest more antalyst dear than bucks, you know, otherwise
Speaker 1: deer herds grow too abundant. So there are certain exceptions
Speaker 1: to that deer you know in nearer northern New Englan
Speaker 1: and some of the deer in the western US kind
Speaker 1: of at the fringes of good white tail habitat. But
Speaker 1: for the most part, we do be shooting more those
Speaker 1: that we do bucks each year. So take a look
Speaker 1: at that total harvest. But then let's break it down
Speaker 1: into the sex ratio of the harvest. That alone can
Speaker 1: can give us some good information on health of that
Speaker 1: dear hurt. And then if we can add in the
Speaker 1: age structure on both sides of that, that really gives
Speaker 1: us a good feel for what's going on. And unfortunately,
Speaker 1: most state walife agencies you do, estimate the age structure
Speaker 1: of both the bucks and the analyst side, so that
Speaker 1: gives us a good thing to be able to measure
Speaker 1: year after year after year. And it's the trends in
Speaker 1: those that are most important. You know, that lets us
Speaker 1: know are we getting to where we need to be
Speaker 1: or not? And if so, man, that's great, and if not, hey,
Speaker 1: then let's correct that. Let's make some changes and then
Speaker 1: they will allow hunters, you know, to help us meet
Speaker 1: that plan and get us to where we need to
Speaker 1: be so that we do have very healthy dear hurts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and all of those trends seem to be pointing in
Speaker 1: the right direction as of this last report. Right. Um.
Speaker 1: I know one of the things we talked about last
Speaker 1: year was that the doe harvest was down from in
Speaker 1: that last year we discussed that the doll harvest was down,
Speaker 1: but it seems like that rebounded back above buck harvest
Speaker 1: this year, right, So that's a good thing, absolutely, And yeah,
Speaker 1: that the doe harvest had been down for several years
Speaker 1: in a row, and that was very concerned, extremely concerning,
Speaker 1: and but yeah, the most recent one it has rebounded
Speaker 1: and for the first time in the past three hunting seasons,
Speaker 1: we have now shot more analysts deer than than amil
Speaker 1: and bucks again, which is very good. That is a
Speaker 1: good situation for us. So, uh, yeah, there was there
Speaker 1: was a lot of very positive things that came out
Speaker 1: of that harvest. So numbers were good, the sex ratio
Speaker 1: of the harvest was good, and age structure for both
Speaker 1: bucks and does was good. So that that lets us
Speaker 1: know that in many places, you know, we're in a
Speaker 1: really good spot relative to those gears. Yeah, so what
Speaker 1: do you think about the whole buck age structure story.
Speaker 1: I remember handful of years ago we talked about how
Speaker 1: yearling buck harvest was at the lowest rate ever. It
Speaker 1: was something like thirty two percent or thirty three or
Speaker 1: somewhere in that ballpark. And you remember you thinking that
Speaker 1: we likely we're going to plateau there. Let's be stuck
Speaker 1: around like that low thirties, give or take um. But
Speaker 1: now we're several years past that and it keeps dropping.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? I think that I
Speaker 1: totally blew that one when we was gotten before. I
Speaker 1: I vividly remember, because we've been monitoring this since, you know,
Speaker 1: when it was over six of all the buckshot rolling
Speaker 1: in one and a half, and I've watched it just
Speaker 1: steadily det dropped and dropped and dropped, and man, what
Speaker 1: it hit about thirty I remember thinking, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's just it just can't go any lower. You know,
Speaker 1: hunters just won't let it go lower. You know, they're
Speaker 1: going to continue to take some yearling bucks. And you know,
Speaker 1: youth hunters, of course, all had the ability to do that.
Speaker 1: So from from just a hunting culture standpoint, I really
Speaker 1: didn't think that would go below that. And I remember
Speaker 1: telling you that and all others as well, and and
Speaker 1: it turned out I was wrong, It was very wrong.
Speaker 1: It has continued to drop to where it is now,
Speaker 1: to the lowest ever. Uh So, essentially, of all the
Speaker 1: antlered bucks that we shoot today, you know, three out
Speaker 1: of four of them or at least two and a
Speaker 1: half years old, only one is a year land And
Speaker 1: that is an incredible testament, you know, to to what
Speaker 1: hunters have done to really move dear into older age
Speaker 1: classes and you know, provide a much more natural age
Speaker 1: structure for bucks. And uh man, you know, you don't
Speaker 1: have to be in South Texas or the Golden Triangle
Speaker 1: of Illinois anymore to have the opportunity to hunt mature bucks.
Speaker 1: You literally can do that in every single state in
Speaker 1: the country that has white tails today. How satisfying is
Speaker 1: that for you? Kip as some who who has been
Speaker 1: a part of that transformation over the last you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of decades really and everything that the Quality
Speaker 1: Deer Management Association had been sharing and educating with people
Speaker 1: for so many years. I mean, so much of this
Speaker 1: can can be pointed as as you guys having a
Speaker 1: direct impact on How how does that make you feel
Speaker 1: to see what a night and day change has happened.
Speaker 1: Oh it's extremely gratifying. Um, mostly because you know, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm first and foremost of deer hunter, you know, and
Speaker 1: I love to reap the benefits of that. And and
Speaker 1: it's so nice as I travel the country and and
Speaker 1: work with hunters, you know that that they get to
Speaker 1: see that as well. And I can vividly remember back
Speaker 1: in the early two thousand's, you know, when I would
Speaker 1: give talks about q DM and you know, and people
Speaker 1: it's wherever I was, I say, was in the No,
Speaker 1: it was in Michigan, and people say, oh, that works
Speaker 1: in the South, it doesn't work up here. I said, well, no,
Speaker 1: that's not true. You know, it can work here. I
Speaker 1: just need to you know, apply it to you know,
Speaker 1: the state's you know, variables and you know. And then
Speaker 1: i'd go to two Maine and they say, how it
Speaker 1: works in the stuff, it doesn't work in New England.
Speaker 1: That's not true. And I vividly remember I was in Nacodoches, Texas,
Speaker 1: and UH speaking at Stephen F. Austin UH State University,
Speaker 1: and UH talking about QTM. You know, QTM was bored
Speaker 1: and and I davidly remember a guy the artist raised
Speaker 1: his hand and I said, yes, sir, and he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, you Yankee, what you're talking about that might
Speaker 1: work up north and that doesn't work down here. And
Speaker 1: I stopped and I said, I have absolutely heard it all.
Speaker 1: Now I have traveled this country. It had people in
Speaker 1: the north Tella, you know, but now this is the
Speaker 1: birthplace of the whole qt m ol Brothers, the wildlife
Speaker 1: wildist in Florida. You know who who is responsible for
Speaker 1: for starting this And now you're telling me it doesn't
Speaker 1: work here. So you know what it was. It just,
Speaker 1: you know, hunters just didn't want to change the way
Speaker 1: that they their mindset was about hunting or their approach
Speaker 1: to what they were going to shoot or not. And
Speaker 1: you know, fast forward twenty years and you know, if
Speaker 1: you look at kids that are hunting today, or you
Speaker 1: can look at adults, you know through our field of
Speaker 1: fork programs, you know, adults who are starting now. You know,
Speaker 1: they can't even imagine, you know, when we talked to
Speaker 1: him about what it was like and thirty years ago
Speaker 1: that that seems like, you know, we're talking about you know,
Speaker 1: aliens or something, because it's so different than the standing
Speaker 1: crop of deer that we have today. So yeah, it's gratifying,
Speaker 1: and it's mostly gratified just because I love seeing people
Speaker 1: you'll have success in the woods and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and just be so excited about the opportunities they have. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so twenty years ago, obviously these numbers looked so different,
Speaker 1: and now over the last couple of decades, we've seen
Speaker 1: this massive shift to now where like he was described,
Speaker 1: only one out of every four bucks harvested across the
Speaker 1: country on averages a year and a half old, the
Speaker 1: rate of three and a half plus old bucks is
Speaker 1: higher than ever as well. So in a lot of ways,
Speaker 1: you know, I think people might be able to say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, implementing some form of quality deer management or
Speaker 1: improving the age structure of deer across America mission accomplished.
Speaker 1: We've we've really improved it to a degree. Um So
Speaker 1: when you guys at the n d A, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously a couple of years ago, the q d m
Speaker 1: A and the NDA merged. You guys start rethinking some
Speaker 1: of your goals and issues and things you want to
Speaker 1: focus on. And now you've been doing that for a
Speaker 1: couple of years now. When you look forward. Now, Kip,
Speaker 1: and you're looking at Okay, what's the next big mission?
Speaker 1: I know you have a handful of different priorities, but
Speaker 1: for you personally, Kip, what do you see as is
Speaker 1: that most important or most um most interesting moving forward?
Speaker 1: If if we can say mission accomplished on improving AID
Speaker 1: structure and all the trickle down positive impacts of that,
Speaker 1: what's the next big mission that you hope that you
Speaker 1: guys and us as a community can start really driving forward?
Speaker 1: Is there something there is? And the two that are
Speaker 1: right at the tip of my fingers that I enjoy
Speaker 1: working on. A one is making the general population uh
Speaker 1: knowledgeable about the value of deer and then to ensuring
Speaker 1: that we have a sustainable hunter based coming forward, you know,
Speaker 1: through our our three efforts in our field of fork programs.
Speaker 1: So you know, as as hunter numbers continue to decline,
Speaker 1: you know, we just have a few families that are
Speaker 1: bringing hunt or's into the fold. So like fortunately I
Speaker 1: do and you do, but you know, you and I
Speaker 1: are the you know, becoming the exceptions. So I get
Speaker 1: very excited about developing programs and working to ensure that
Speaker 1: people that didn't grow up the way you did or
Speaker 1: I did have an ability to be able to go hunting,
Speaker 1: you know, uh later in life. And then ensuring that
Speaker 1: folks understand just how important deer are to uh, you know,
Speaker 1: to America. You know, not just the hunters or but
Speaker 1: truly how we are to America. Uh. Those are two
Speaker 1: big initiatives that we have and those thanks getting me
Speaker 1: really excited to start work each day. Let's talk a
Speaker 1: little more about that whole idea of the value of Dear.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that this is going to be one of
Speaker 1: the big priorities that the upcoming Dear study group. UM,
Speaker 1: What's what's the angle with that? Or how how do
Speaker 1: you see us as a community being able to do
Speaker 1: that better? Or how as an organization is the NDA
Speaker 1: plan to do that? UM? I guess I'm curious number one,
Speaker 1: if you want to elaborate just a little bit more
Speaker 1: about why that's important. Um. And then secondly, how do
Speaker 1: you think we can do that? I think it's important
Speaker 1: because you know, wildlife has such uh an impact on
Speaker 1: all Americans. You know, whether you live in rural America
Speaker 1: or urban America, you know, wildlife has an impact, and
Speaker 1: for the most part, it's a very positive impact. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe somebody you know loves watching birds at a feeder.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're not a hunter, you know, but they like
Speaker 1: that where they enjoy you know, seeing wildlife, just wildlife viewing. Well,
Speaker 1: so much of that painful by deer hunters. Uh. We
Speaker 1: know that about of all hunters in the United States
Speaker 1: hunt deer, and most of all of our wildlife manager
Speaker 1: programs are paid for by hunters and in large part
Speaker 1: of deer hunters. So that's in orton. And as we
Speaker 1: lose hunters, we lose funding for all of that wildlife.
Speaker 1: So you know, whether you care about your mobile links
Speaker 1: or you know, Kirkland's wardlers or spotted salamanders or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, it's important to understand that they have direct
Speaker 1: tie to like tail deer. And so it's we're reaching
Speaker 1: a critical mass in the United States where we need
Speaker 1: more people to understand the value of those deer to
Speaker 1: ensure that we have sound funding programs moving forward. And
Speaker 1: and this is especially true as c w D continues
Speaker 1: to spread. You know, given the film, we have ten
Speaker 1: to eleven million deer hunters in the US. What we
Speaker 1: are not going to solve c w D with ten
Speaker 1: to eleven million people. However, there's far larger base of
Speaker 1: people out there who who are dear enthusiasts, you know,
Speaker 1: the like the c deer that like the photograph deer.
Speaker 1: So as more of a base understands the value that
Speaker 1: deer have, um, that is how we will defeat things
Speaker 1: like CPD, like the funding issues relative to habitat management
Speaker 1: and hunter access, all of the stuff is intertwined. And uh,
Speaker 1: at one point there was enough Americans that hunted that
Speaker 1: the hunter base is large enough to handle all these issues.
Speaker 1: And that's not the case anymore, and and it actually
Speaker 1: hasn't been the case for a while. So the timing
Speaker 1: is is extremely important right now that we start showing,
Speaker 1: you know, just how valuable deer are two Americans, so
Speaker 1: that more people can then basically step up and help
Speaker 1: in this battle, whether it's disease, habitat loss, or anything else.
Speaker 1: So so that that's why we see this as being
Speaker 1: so critical and why we made it the theme of
Speaker 1: the Dear Study Group meeting next week, and and why
Speaker 1: we'll put so much emphasis into this. Does does the
Speaker 1: value of deer hunting factor into that too? Is that
Speaker 1: part of what we need to help communicate as well.
Speaker 1: It's not just the deer that are valuable, but also
Speaker 1: our engagement with them and on our side of things,
Speaker 1: is that part of the store we need to tell Oh,
Speaker 1: it absolutely is. And uh, you know, I have some
Speaker 1: friends you know that that love butterflies, say, um, and
Speaker 1: I think that's cool. I like butterflies too, But none
Speaker 1: of my friends will like butterflies, plant any type of
Speaker 1: food plot specifically form or at least nothing that's larger,
Speaker 1: you know than you know, a ten square foot area
Speaker 1: around their house. You know, those people are managing old fields.
Speaker 1: None of them were managing and force at areas. None
Speaker 1: of them are pumping money into our wildlife program by
Speaker 1: buying guns or you know, other hunting equipment. So this
Speaker 1: is not a knock on you know, those users at all.
Speaker 1: You know, God bless them. I'm glad they like that.
Speaker 1: But hunters are the ones, you know, to do the
Speaker 1: majority of this conservation work to ensure that we have
Speaker 1: the funding available and that we have these management programs.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so hunters play a huge role in this um.
Speaker 1: You know, most people would realize that, you know that
Speaker 1: deer hunting. Just in the Southeastern United States, deer hunters
Speaker 1: there spent over a billion dollars a year on laying
Speaker 1: at least to deer hunt. That is a tremendous amount
Speaker 1: of money that's pumped into those local economies. You know,
Speaker 1: that fund a whole bunch of other things. You know,
Speaker 1: now to those people also turkey hunt and scorel hunt
Speaker 1: and duck hut. Yeah, probably, but that is those are
Speaker 1: moneys that can be identified specifically for deer hunting. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, hunters have provided this free public service to
Speaker 1: society for so long, and we're glad to do it.
Speaker 1: You know, it's time that they get recognized for some
Speaker 1: of the refforts like that, particularly at a time where hey,
Speaker 1: you know, we need a larger recognition of those efforts
Speaker 1: and some more help in many ways to make sure
Speaker 1: that we can continue to fund O wildlife management programs
Speaker 1: adequately as we go into the future. Yeah. So then
Speaker 1: what's what's our role in that moving forward? People like
Speaker 1: you and me as hunters, or or maybe the organizations
Speaker 1: like the NDA, what all can we do collectively to
Speaker 1: try to start, you know, making sure that narrative is
Speaker 1: understood in showcase in the value of deer and deer hunters.
Speaker 1: Is there is there any kind of accent items that
Speaker 1: we can really rally aroun Yeah, there are. And you
Speaker 1: know it's about taking the information you know, and being
Speaker 1: able to share it with with with our friends, you know,
Speaker 1: and others you know that that we know and hunters
Speaker 1: are you know, they like to share good information. But
Speaker 1: in many cases, you know, it's hard, but we don't
Speaker 1: have good white sized pieces, you know, for them to
Speaker 1: be able to share. You know. Now you obviously you're
Speaker 1: grapple about this and you can you know, describe this
Speaker 1: to people. We need to provide that information for all
Speaker 1: hunters to easily be able to share where the neighbors,
Speaker 1: others at schools and sports teams and that type of thing.
Speaker 1: And uh. And that's one of the reasons why we
Speaker 1: have helped start the Southeast Dear Partnership, which is which
Speaker 1: is a collection of state and federal agencies NGOs like
Speaker 1: n d A and some private entities that is looking
Speaker 1: at this project too and um promote the value of
Speaker 1: your hunting in the Southeastern US. UM. This is actually
Speaker 1: what my presentation at the Southeastern Study Group is going
Speaker 1: to be talking about this project. And essentially this has
Speaker 1: three phases. One is to as a research phase where
Speaker 1: collect all the information that's possibly out there on the
Speaker 1: value of deer, the value of deer hunting, economic data,
Speaker 1: habitat data, et cetera. Let's get this all in one place,
Speaker 1: so we have and actually we are just finishing phase
Speaker 1: one of that right now. Phase two then is develop
Speaker 1: a PR and a marketing campaign to be able to
Speaker 1: share all this information, and that's what we are just
Speaker 1: moving into that, and then phase three will be all right,
Speaker 1: let's actually implement that so that we can share this
Speaker 1: information with the general public, you know, not just hunters,
Speaker 1: and we're not trying to convince you know, people who
Speaker 1: don't hunt to hunt. We just want them to understand
Speaker 1: the value of deer and hunters what they provide to
Speaker 1: all of our WALLEFE programs. So that is the action
Speaker 1: item is, Hey, let's let's create these PR campaigns so
Speaker 1: that we had this information care and then let's broadcast
Speaker 1: it as widely as possible. So you know, whether you know,
Speaker 1: if you're a non hunter or maybe you know you
Speaker 1: like to look at merds or you like to look
Speaker 1: at wildlife or whatever, let's at least understand how this
Speaker 1: is all tied, you know, or the role that deer
Speaker 1: habit this and so, so that's pretty cool, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know we're an exciting place of that right now.
Speaker 1: Over the next twelve months, you're going to see a
Speaker 1: lot of these public press releases and you know, this
Speaker 1: whole PR campaign start to unroll. Very cool. So you know,
Speaker 1: the second priority you mentioned, the second really important thing
Speaker 1: was was participation, Right, So making sure people understand how
Speaker 1: valuable dear and deer hunting is important for that massive
Speaker 1: percentage of the UM of our country that doesn't hunt.
Speaker 1: But then also we want to try to increase the
Speaker 1: number of actual participants UM. And you know that's been
Speaker 1: something that that we've all talked about for a lot
Speaker 1: of years now, UM, and I think most everyone knows
Speaker 1: was the basic story, like why it's important for us
Speaker 1: to continue passing while on the hunting heritage and keeping
Speaker 1: folks engaged and making sure that our numbers don't plummet
Speaker 1: and that our our voice doesn't disappear. UM. But over
Speaker 1: the last i don't know, the last year or so,
Speaker 1: there have been a a few somewhat high profile UM
Speaker 1: rebuttals to that story, some of them within my own
Speaker 1: company at mediator UM, people kind of saying, hey, it's
Speaker 1: actually getting too crowded. There's too many people out there.
Speaker 1: Why are we trying to get more hunters out there?
Speaker 1: Whenever where you go, there's people bumping into people, COVID
Speaker 1: scent and if everybody the outdoors, it's a mess. Uh,
Speaker 1: we're actually making things worse. Um what's your take on
Speaker 1: those kind of contrarian opinions that I think are definitely
Speaker 1: the minority, But but it's a it's a thing we're
Speaker 1: starting to hear from people now, Um, what see your
Speaker 1: take on that? Yeah? Um, um, I know exactly what
Speaker 1: you're you're saying there. And I've lived that information, you know,
Speaker 1: from media on this podcasts and and heard those people
Speaker 1: debate that and and and you know, I'm I understand
Speaker 1: that the crowding issue. Um as hunters are like, we
Speaker 1: don't want to be crowded when we're hunting, you know.
Speaker 1: Week part of the reason we go, you know, is
Speaker 1: to get away from crowds, you know, and and to
Speaker 1: be with nature, to be a field and you know,
Speaker 1: so it's quiet and serene. So you know, we don't
Speaker 1: want to have a bunch of other hunters around us.
Speaker 1: And and I'm the same way, you know, I never
Speaker 1: go out and thinking, Man, I hope I just run
Speaker 1: into hunters all day to UM. But you know, understanding
Speaker 1: the necessity of hunters and why fewer hunters means less
Speaker 1: advocates for hunting and less you know, dollars for funding
Speaker 1: that that's not good for any wildlife. So I think
Speaker 1: that if we start talking about, you know, hey, less
Speaker 1: hunters is better, I think that's that's pretty shortsighted on
Speaker 1: our party and pretty selfish. Um. We have fewer hunters
Speaker 1: today did in the past. So if today, if say
Speaker 1: we had you know, twice as many hunters as we
Speaker 1: had twenty years ago, okay, and I I can see
Speaker 1: some of the arguments about crowding and let's have that conversation.
Speaker 1: But given the fact that we have way fewer hunters
Speaker 1: today than in the past, But to talk about crowding today,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't buy that at all, um, partly
Speaker 1: because it's very different across the US. UM. And actually
Speaker 1: I just finished an article looking at deer hunter densities
Speaker 1: on a per square mile basis for for for all
Speaker 1: the states in the country, or at least every state
Speaker 1: that would provide us there hundred deer hunter numbers. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, as a region, the western US only averages
Speaker 1: one deer hunter per square mile, So I mean that's
Speaker 1: that's not that many people um com prepared to speaking
Speaker 1: of the Southeast has about four hundreds per square mile,
Speaker 1: the Midwest has about five, the Northeast has nine. So
Speaker 1: it's hard for me hunting in the north East, where
Speaker 1: while my home state of Pennsylvania leads the country with
Speaker 1: fifteen deer hunters per square mile. So it's hard, you know,
Speaker 1: for anybody, particularly east or the Midwest, at those densities
Speaker 1: to them. Look at the western US and thing man,
Speaker 1: you only have you know, one deer hunter for squre
Speaker 1: a mile, you know, so suddenly there appears to be
Speaker 1: a lot of room for, you know, for more. And
Speaker 1: and hey, I've hunted out West. I love it. I've
Speaker 1: ran into people there too and thought, gosh, I wish
Speaker 1: I could just get away from him. So I'm not
Speaker 1: saying it's a non issue, but I'm saying, for the
Speaker 1: future of our wireless manager programs, in the future of hunting,
Speaker 1: uh more hunters is the answer, not fuor hunters. Yeah, now,
Speaker 1: I know. When we chatted last year, there were these
Speaker 1: um initial reports of the COVID impact and sending more
Speaker 1: hunters to the woods. UM. Seemingly at least we're hearing
Speaker 1: early reports of that, same for fishing and all sorts
Speaker 1: of different outdoor recreation. Um. Have you been able to
Speaker 1: get any sense of how that's continued to trend? Does
Speaker 1: that seem to be something that has continued on this year? Um?
Speaker 1: Does that seem to be something that has reverted back
Speaker 1: to the mean? What's what's your take on that? Have
Speaker 1: you heard anything more in there? Um? And not much,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think the data is not in
Speaker 1: on that yet. So last year, the big bump because
Speaker 1: of COVID, some states you know, sold a lot more licenses.
Speaker 1: Participation was up. UM. But it's it's it's funny because
Speaker 1: we need to realize it's it's up relatively speaking. So
Speaker 1: it was up from the year before, nowhere near what
Speaker 1: it was a decade ago or two decades ago. So
Speaker 1: I mean, that's all relative to that. But right now,
Speaker 1: you know, many of these states are hoping that they
Speaker 1: could keep those hunters that they got in that bump. Um.
Speaker 1: They're waiting to see if that actually pans out or not.
Speaker 1: So you know, later this year we'll have a better
Speaker 1: understanding once all that license sail data comes out, you know,
Speaker 1: and how many permits they sold and and all that.
Speaker 1: But fingers crossed, I hope that we were able to
Speaker 1: retain a bunch of those hunters. So the time will yeah,
Speaker 1: now do you know, Kip, I don't know this. I'm
Speaker 1: sure the dad is out there. I just have I
Speaker 1: can't remember what it shows. Do you know what the
Speaker 1: trend is with bow hunter numbers? Is that rising specifically
Speaker 1: or is that going down as well? That is rising,
Speaker 1: and it's really in part because of increased opportunities for crossbows.
Speaker 1: You know, there's the majority of states today you can
Speaker 1: use a crossbow in the archery season, so that has
Speaker 1: played into that as well as just some of the
Speaker 1: expanded opportunities you know for archery seasons and states. Uh my,
Speaker 1: my home state is a good example. Historically, almost all
Speaker 1: the deer were killed during you know, the two week
Speaker 1: buck or rifle season, and most of those were killed
Speaker 1: on opening day in the first Saturday. Well, today, you know,
Speaker 1: we have a long pason you can use crossbows in that,
Speaker 1: and today almost of our total deer harvest is taken
Speaker 1: during the archery season. So you know what you have,
Speaker 1: and many of them though it's not like it's a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of new hunters. A lot of them are
Speaker 1: the same hunters, just choosing to take advantage of opportunities
Speaker 1: to hunt when it's a little warmer and you had
Speaker 1: longer seasons, and so you know, they're they're putting venison
Speaker 1: in the freezer a little sooner. It hasn't dramatically changed,
Speaker 1: you know, the number of deer they get shot. They're
Speaker 1: just shooting more of them a little earlier in the year.
Speaker 1: So uh So, anyway, bow hunter numbers have climbed, but
Speaker 1: we monitor the percentage of the total deer harvest that's
Speaker 1: taken by bow hunters every year, and that's it's the pasture.
Speaker 1: That number has stayed pretty stable the last few years.
Speaker 1: Uh fifteen years ago that number was only so it
Speaker 1: grew to about a quarter of the total deer harvest.
Speaker 1: But it's really leveled out right there, and it hasn't
Speaker 1: changed much at all in the last four or five years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So here's the hypothesis I have that I think maybe
Speaker 1: maybe can can speak to the feeling that many people
Speaker 1: have that the pressure is so much higher out there
Speaker 1: on deer and I wonder that overall hunter numbers have
Speaker 1: declined pretty precipitously, but has the number of avid deer hunters,
Speaker 1: So like the die hard people like like me or
Speaker 1: you who spend days and days and days and days
Speaker 1: out there, has that number increased significantly? So maybe we
Speaker 1: have way fewer in general, but what number of those
Speaker 1: people only headed out for the first two days a
Speaker 1: gun season? Um, But then you've got more people like
Speaker 1: me who hunt fifty days a year or seventy days
Speaker 1: a year. So the number of days hunted actually is
Speaker 1: higher because a smaller number is just doing it at
Speaker 1: a much more intense level. So that's why I asked
Speaker 1: about bow hunting, because I I think usually folks at
Speaker 1: bow hunt are spending more days in the field and
Speaker 1: folks at gun hunt. That's kind of a many times,
Speaker 1: those are people that want to add time to their season,
Speaker 1: They want to hunt all year round, they want to
Speaker 1: go more, they want to invest in it more. And
Speaker 1: so now compared to we we're twenty years ago, I
Speaker 1: I'm assuming my assumption, based on just general sense of
Speaker 1: where things are, is that there's a whole lot more
Speaker 1: people today that their life revolves are un deer and
Speaker 1: they're spending habits revolve around deer and they buy land,
Speaker 1: or buy equipment or by vacation days all around. Can
Speaker 1: I get out deer hunt more and do this more?
Speaker 1: I'm I'm wondering if that is part of why people
Speaker 1: feel like it's so much different now. That's why they
Speaker 1: feels like when they go on public land it's crowded
Speaker 1: with tons of guys with saddles or mobile hang ons
Speaker 1: on their back because there's so many people that are
Speaker 1: die hard about it compared to years ago, even though
Speaker 1: we have lower total numbers. Does does anything that resonate
Speaker 1: with you? Do you think there's anything to that? That's
Speaker 1: a great question. Um, the US Fish and Wilife Service
Speaker 1: and in the big national survey that they do every
Speaker 1: four or five years, they always measure that or provide
Speaker 1: data on you know, you know hunt or avidity, you
Speaker 1: know in the super ad it's and all that. Um,
Speaker 1: what's that's coming out right here later this year? I guess. Um,
Speaker 1: So anyway, I think that's a great theory. I think
Speaker 1: it's a really cool question. Uh that is the data
Speaker 1: set are the only data set that I'm aware of
Speaker 1: that that could answer that. So once that comes out,
Speaker 1: We'll have to take a look and see if that
Speaker 1: percentage of you know, superrabbit hunters or abbot hunters has
Speaker 1: changed over time, because that that certainly could, given that
Speaker 1: you know, there's more bow hunting opportunity now and in
Speaker 1: that bow hunter spends far more days a field than
Speaker 1: the average fire arm hunter does. Yeah, I'll be curious
Speaker 1: to see that. So so kind of okay. Taking the
Speaker 1: next step from that, then if there is a general
Speaker 1: sense from some folks that stuff is I think this
Speaker 1: is fair to say. I think most deer hunters. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna this is anecdotal, but I think generally there are
Speaker 1: complaints or concerns around. You know, no matter where you are,
Speaker 1: everyone complains about there being too much hunting pressure. Whether
Speaker 1: it's in Pennsylvania where there's square a mile or in
Speaker 1: Montana where there's one. Right, everyone's gonna everyone's complaining about
Speaker 1: it in one form or fashion, whether it's warranted or not. Um,
Speaker 1: but this goes to, Okay, whether or not you're happy
Speaker 1: with the number of hunters that there are. One thing
Speaker 1: that definitely would be good is if we could have
Speaker 1: more access more public land or higher quality habitat in
Speaker 1: any of those places that you can get out to
Speaker 1: make sure that people still have good places to go. UM,
Speaker 1: since you know, access is one of those things that's
Speaker 1: been hard or hard or come by over the last
Speaker 1: couple of decades. As more land is being bought up
Speaker 1: for hunting, more land is leased out for hunting, and
Speaker 1: if you're not in those couple groups, you might be
Speaker 1: left out in the cold. As free permission is shrinking
Speaker 1: UM and public land is increasingly being utilized. So I
Speaker 1: know that one of the goals Correct me if I'm
Speaker 1: wrong on this, but I believe one of the stated
Speaker 1: kind of objectives for the NDA is to help improve access,
Speaker 1: habitat and deer hunting on at least one million acres
Speaker 1: of public land? Am I right on that? And then
Speaker 1: number two, what's what's the game plan to do that?
Speaker 1: How are we doing that? How are you guys doing that? So, yes,
Speaker 1: you are correct that that is our goal a million acres, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, within that five year period, and we're accomplishing
Speaker 1: that by working with the U. S Force Service and
Speaker 1: some other partners. And essentially what happens is, you know,
Speaker 1: we are able to get contracts to go in and
Speaker 1: cut timber on us force land UM and then use
Speaker 1: the money from the timber sale to chance the habitat
Speaker 1: that's there and the access. So while we don't have
Speaker 1: the ability as an organization to go out, you know,
Speaker 1: and buy a million acres of land and say hey,
Speaker 1: you know, here's here's public land, or we want you
Speaker 1: to be able to go and use this UM, we
Speaker 1: do have the ability to work with the four Service
Speaker 1: and others and take that public land and just make
Speaker 1: it far better for hunting. You know, older mature hardwoods
Speaker 1: and over mature software force and provide very little for deer,
Speaker 1: but the good management we can make those you know,
Speaker 1: extremely high quality deer habitats. So that's what we're doing here.
Speaker 1: You know, with that, you're changing up the age structure
Speaker 1: on some of those forests, enhancing uh, you know, the woods,
Speaker 1: which then also allows us to do some stream work, uh,
Speaker 1: some roadwork to enhance access in and And the goal is,
Speaker 1: let's take what is there that's already public land hunters
Speaker 1: can use. It's just not real valuable. Let's take that
Speaker 1: and just make it better and then provide ways that
Speaker 1: hunters can get in and actually use it. So this
Speaker 1: can absolutely help the crowding issue where you know, hey,
Speaker 1: if you're in an area hunting public land and you
Speaker 1: know we all want to go to there, that that's
Speaker 1: the best habitat. Well, you know, if all of a
Speaker 1: sudden you have a lot of good habitat that's spread out,
Speaker 1: that just naturally is going to spread out some of
Speaker 1: that pressure hunting pressure, hiking pressure, biking pressure, whatever the
Speaker 1: case is. So that's going to be better for wildlife,
Speaker 1: it's going to be better for hunters, and it's gonna
Speaker 1: be better for all the users on those public lands.
Speaker 1: So yeah, what we're super excited about that project that
Speaker 1: started this past year and uh, you know, the first
Speaker 1: contract was in actually in Mississippi last fall to start cutting.
Speaker 1: We expect to be cutting in six to seven different
Speaker 1: states during two and we would just keep that number
Speaker 1: growing and spreading across the US to be able to
Speaker 1: impact hunters in more states and eventually be all the
Speaker 1: way across the US. So very excited. Now. Is that
Speaker 1: something that regular people like me or anyone listening can
Speaker 1: in any way positively positively contribute to or is this
Speaker 1: outside of the influence of of the average person. I
Speaker 1: know they absolutely can that can be involved with that
Speaker 1: and and the best way to be involved is one
Speaker 1: u by being an NDA member because you know, they
Speaker 1: can then contact us, we can have a dialogue relative
Speaker 1: to whatever a certain forests in their area. Uh. Matt Ross,
Speaker 1: our director of Conservation, is the one the spear has
Speaker 1: this project for us, and he's the one that works
Speaker 1: with all of these four service for supervisors you know,
Speaker 1: on these different areas. Well. Matt lives in New York.
Speaker 1: Matt travels the country Force, but you know he doesn't
Speaker 1: know you know, all of the national forces in pick
Speaker 1: a state, whereas you know our members in these different
Speaker 1: states or other deer enthusiasts, they certainly can contact Matt,
Speaker 1: share information with him, gives him their you know, opinions
Speaker 1: on different things. So that's a great way for them
Speaker 1: to be involved. Of course they can also then be
Speaker 1: involved with that national forest because those those four so
Speaker 1: they want that engagement, they want to hear for the public.
Speaker 1: So in the more input that they have in or
Speaker 1: the more engagement by hunt hearing people say, man, this
Speaker 1: is great, thank you for cutting this you know timber
Speaker 1: in my backyard or in my state. You know, that
Speaker 1: is just more encouragement for the forced service to continue
Speaker 1: to increase this program and then amount of acres that's
Speaker 1: in it. So there's there's lots of opportunity for folks
Speaker 1: who who want to get involved to do so and
Speaker 1: have a positive impact on the resource. Awesome. So I
Speaker 1: wanna pivot. I want to make a hard pivot to
Speaker 1: a piece of less exciting news. I suppose maybe not news,
Speaker 1: but it's a topic that's not often fun to talk
Speaker 1: about but still important. UM. And that's the disease front
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier about where things you know, have been
Speaker 1: pretty bad with e h D, you know, seven years
Speaker 1: ago or so. We haven't had as bad of about
Speaker 1: break like that recently. But of course there's the looming
Speaker 1: c w D cloud that continues to kind of rain
Speaker 1: down on us slowly but surely year after year. UM,
Speaker 1: can you give us the the cliff notes on what's
Speaker 1: new on the c w D front, both good and bad? Um,
Speaker 1: where do you see things headed in that direction as well?
Speaker 1: Sure h c w D is now in twenty nine
Speaker 1: states in the US. Um that we ended the year
Speaker 1: with twenty seven states, and right off the bed in
Speaker 1: two we added two more, Alabama and Louisiana. So twenty
Speaker 1: nine states continuing to spread UM. That's that's kind of
Speaker 1: the bad side of that. UM. The good side is
Speaker 1: we need to know more about the disease today than
Speaker 1: we have in the past, and you know that's encouraging.
Speaker 1: There's a lot we don't know yet, but you know,
Speaker 1: we continue to learn more. UM. Hunters understand more about
Speaker 1: it today than in the past, and that is good
Speaker 1: because the best things that we can do to keep
Speaker 1: the disease from spreading is to stop moving live deer
Speaker 1: and stop moving the high risk parts of deer that
Speaker 1: we shoot. The high risk parts are the eyes, the brain,
Speaker 1: explaining the backbone. So you know, as the hunters can
Speaker 1: do absolutely. You know, there's something that hunters we can
Speaker 1: do every single day, and that's do not move those parts.
Speaker 1: And to make sure that all of our hunt buddies know, hey,
Speaker 1: don't move these parts. And and for folks listening, if
Speaker 1: they're if they're not sure why the it's a big deal.
Speaker 1: You know, say you go to uh to Wisconsin, you
Speaker 1: shoot a deer, say it has c w D, and
Speaker 1: you take the whole thing back home to Michigan. You
Speaker 1: you know, you process that at your house, throw the
Speaker 1: carcass out back. Well, that carcass, that's the higher risk parts,
Speaker 1: the backbone, et cetera. Other deer that come in contact
Speaker 1: with that can then contract the disease. So that's why
Speaker 1: it's a big deal and we should not be moving
Speaker 1: those parts. So there was a time a few years
Speaker 1: ago when it was pretty bleak in the CDWD front.
Speaker 1: There was no good news coming out. There was no
Speaker 1: positive results from any research and that and that's starting
Speaker 1: to change now. You know, we are seeing some small
Speaker 1: victories relative to states holding prevalence rates very low. That's
Speaker 1: a good thing. We know that more hunters now abide
Speaker 1: by the rules and they're not moving those parts, and
Speaker 1: that's a good thing. So, uh, you know, is it
Speaker 1: is it a difficult fight? Heck yeah, that's what difficult
Speaker 1: fighters and we've ever had for deer. But but man,
Speaker 1: take a look at our forefathers, you know, back you
Speaker 1: know when there was only a couple of hundred thousand
Speaker 1: white tails in the whole country. You know, that was
Speaker 1: a big deal, and the hunters solve that. So I
Speaker 1: think we're gonna solve the c w D issue. I do.
Speaker 1: I'm a firm believe it that we are. So um,
Speaker 1: I think it's the single biggest challenge right now facing
Speaker 1: the future of deer hunting. And um, that's not just
Speaker 1: my opinion, the vast majority of wildlife managers that is
Speaker 1: what they believe. The US I'm out there who will
Speaker 1: still think this is fake news and that you know,
Speaker 1: it's not a big deal. But it's very clear c
Speaker 1: w D is a huge deal for the for the
Speaker 1: future of deer hunting. And fortunately we are you know,
Speaker 1: starting to get our hands around it a little bit
Speaker 1: in a few states, and that provides hopeful for all
Speaker 1: those others out there. So, UM, I think we will
Speaker 1: get it. I think we're gonna beat it. It's just
Speaker 1: gonna be a long fight. That this is not something
Speaker 1: that will defeat you know, in the next year or two.
Speaker 1: We're in this for the long haul. But as we
Speaker 1: continue to learn more, um and get more hunters engaged
Speaker 1: on this, I think that is the path to beating it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, one of the things I've heard over the
Speaker 1: years has been, you know, the fact we don't have
Speaker 1: a ultimate solution yet, right, we don't have a cure,
Speaker 1: we don't have a way to really stop it. All
Speaker 1: we can hope to do is slow it UM until
Speaker 1: we figure something out right. The thing has always been like,
Speaker 1: we need more funding, we need more research, we need
Speaker 1: to get answers because there's still so much we don't know. Um,
Speaker 1: there's there's possibly some hope on the horizon when it
Speaker 1: comes to new funding. Right, can you talk to me
Speaker 1: about where we stand with the CDBD Research and Management Act?
Speaker 1: I believe is the correct titles that right? And where
Speaker 1: does that standards? What do we need to know there?
Speaker 1: That is a big one, you know, and this would
Speaker 1: be a huge win for for for wildlife, for hunters,
Speaker 1: for for wildlife agencies. Representative kind Um has been a
Speaker 1: big advocate for this for a while and UH we
Speaker 1: we have worked straight with him helping UH draft some
Speaker 1: of this and some of the other partner organizations. Essentially,
Speaker 1: what this would do is um cwds. Very state widlife
Speaker 1: agencies don't have specific budgets and they don't have federal
Speaker 1: funding to pay for testing, for monitoring, for surveillance, that
Speaker 1: type of thing. So what this act would do is
Speaker 1: dedicate funding to the states for that UM because think
Speaker 1: about this, you know, every state that has the business
Speaker 1: you need to monitor for it. But when you spend
Speaker 1: the money to do so, you know, there's not an
Speaker 1: extra pool of money for it, so you're taking money
Speaker 1: away from other programs like habitat work or access or
Speaker 1: land acquisition or or what the case is. Well, the
Speaker 1: CTBD Management Act would provide funding to help monitor the
Speaker 1: disease and allow agencies to use some of the other
Speaker 1: budgets for all of those other things that as hunters,
Speaker 1: we want them to use that money for. So this
Speaker 1: is closer than ever to be in pass. And that's
Speaker 1: something that all sportsmen and women can get behind and
Speaker 1: encourage the legislators to support that because if that has
Speaker 1: passed and that has voted in, that would be a
Speaker 1: huge win for anybody that cares about wildlife. And and
Speaker 1: how close is that to come up to vote? How
Speaker 1: how can we make a difference on that front if
Speaker 1: that's come up here pretty soon. Yeah, I don't know
Speaker 1: exactly how close it is to a vote. Um, it's
Speaker 1: a you know, anything that's legislative can be can be
Speaker 1: difficult to follow like that. UM I do know that,
Speaker 1: you know, it is something that's on the radar right now. Um,
Speaker 1: there's time for for all sports and many women you know,
Speaker 1: to let their legislator all that they support that UM
Speaker 1: and sooner rather than later would be good. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying they don't they have to do it today, but hey,
Speaker 1: let's do it this week or this month, you know,
Speaker 1: and not wait any longer. The more support that that
Speaker 1: we have from our American public about this, the more
Speaker 1: likeliness to pass. You know, there's no downside to to
Speaker 1: any of our wildlife agencies or any funding mechanism because
Speaker 1: of it. So this is something that that's very much needed.
Speaker 1: Has not been done UM for almost twenty years now,
Speaker 1: and so if we could get this past, this would
Speaker 1: be a huge win for all of us. That's great.
Speaker 1: Is there anything else on the you know, coming down
Speaker 1: the legislative pipeline this year that you guys are really
Speaker 1: focusing on that that we as hunters should be paying
Speaker 1: attention to. We are huge advocates of the National of
Speaker 1: the Grasslands Act UM. We talked earlier about all that
Speaker 1: CRP land that was lost, the habitat that was lost,
Speaker 1: you know, that would be grasslands is a huge thing
Speaker 1: for a wildlife you know, across the US. So that's
Speaker 1: another big piece of federal legislation that we're working hard
Speaker 1: to get past. So Uh that's Uh. If if if
Speaker 1: anybody person here wants to get involved with something else
Speaker 1: or engage or let their legislator no, hey, make one
Speaker 1: phone call let them know you support both of those. Uh.
Speaker 1: Wildlife will thank you for it. Excellent. So so speaking
Speaker 1: of then, you know, making that phone call or email,
Speaker 1: you know, as we're looking forward into the rest of
Speaker 1: you know, we do this every year. There's always a
Speaker 1: few action nymes. I like to try to put in
Speaker 1: front of folks and and offer up as ideas for
Speaker 1: things that we could be doing. What are a few
Speaker 1: ideas that you have for hunters this year in uh
Speaker 1: to make a positive impact on the future of deer
Speaker 1: and deer hunting. Can you give us some some ideas,
Speaker 1: some inspirations, some some action items. Sure, um, call your
Speaker 1: legislator and uh and support the seat d and Grasslands acts.
Speaker 1: That would be great. Uh. Plan to take somebody to
Speaker 1: the woods, you know, somebody that hasn't had that opportunity before. Uh.
Speaker 1: It doesn't even have to be during deer season. Just
Speaker 1: invite them out, you know, for a walk. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: share some of your knowledge of nature with them. Uh.
Speaker 1: Some people get so nervous about oh, I couldn't mentor
Speaker 1: somebody because I don't know enough or well, you know what.
Speaker 1: In many cases, you know, you absolutely do. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: don't have to know everything, you know, just the fact
Speaker 1: that you can take somebody out and talk to them,
Speaker 1: you know about this, you know, describe what a tree
Speaker 1: is to him or you know a certain tree, or
Speaker 1: talk to him about something you know about the stream
Speaker 1: or about a certain bird that you see. In many cases,
Speaker 1: it just takes something simple like that to show for them.
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, how interesting this can be, how coolest
Speaker 1: can be, and hey we can we can gain another
Speaker 1: advocate for for our wildlife programs. So that is a
Speaker 1: is a great thing to do. And lastly, get engaged
Speaker 1: with there was something that's going on in the state
Speaker 1: wildlife agency. You know, can let the local biologists know
Speaker 1: about the certain rules that they like or dislike, um
Speaker 1: share maybe a sighting of a special animal or bird
Speaker 1: that they've seen, you know, anything like that. To be
Speaker 1: involved or being engaged is good. Uh. There was a
Speaker 1: point in time where you know, there was very little
Speaker 1: engagement with our state wildlife agencies at all. Uh. That's
Speaker 1: very different today, and that's a good thing. We're in
Speaker 1: a much better place today with how our locologists and
Speaker 1: technicians on lawforcement agent you know, deal with the public
Speaker 1: on a much more regular basis, you know, and hear
Speaker 1: about you know, maybe they saw, you know, I saw
Speaker 1: a baald eagle here today. You know, it's the first
Speaker 1: time we've seen one, you know ever, or you know,
Speaker 1: I saw this other bird or whatever the case is.
Speaker 1: You know, any type of relationship, of of a working
Speaker 1: relationship like that can go a long long way, you know,
Speaker 1: to to help and our wildlife programs. So yeah, so
Speaker 1: get involved, you know, support some legislation, take somebody to
Speaker 1: the wounds, and uh um, get involved the state WILFE agency.
Speaker 1: Those would be three great things that we could do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love it. It's funny. I was just looking into
Speaker 1: this myself, and I was just googling what kind of
Speaker 1: volunteer opportunities there are within Michigan with with our Department
Speaker 1: of Natural Resources and see if there's any opportunities to help,
Speaker 1: you know, work on public land or improve habitat anywhere
Speaker 1: or something like that. I think there was something like
Speaker 1: fifteen different projects like that looking for volunteers just within
Speaker 1: like a three month window. There was that many different
Speaker 1: opportunities all across the state where they were looking for
Speaker 1: people to help out. Um, that was just very eye
Speaker 1: opening to me that hey, there's there's stuff going on
Speaker 1: and people, you know, people are needed, so you know,
Speaker 1: that's a great way to get out there kind of
Speaker 1: really dig your hands into the dirt and get involved,
Speaker 1: make a real, a real difference tangibly, and meet some
Speaker 1: like minded people too that will who knows, maybe make
Speaker 1: new friends, new hunting buddies, something cool like that down
Speaker 1: the road. So it seems like like a win win
Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways. Well, Kim, I uh,
Speaker 1: I just I'm always appreciative of your time. I always
Speaker 1: appreciative of of getting this insight from you and and
Speaker 1: knowing that there are people like you on the inside
Speaker 1: fighting the good fight to make sure we've got deer
Speaker 1: and good places to deer hunt and uh and leaders
Speaker 1: within the deer hunting community. So so thanks for that, Kip,
Speaker 1: And I guess the last thing would just be, can
Speaker 1: you give us a reminder on exactly how we can
Speaker 1: get involved with the National Deer Association. Sure you can
Speaker 1: go right to to deer associations, UM, take advantage of
Speaker 1: any of the free resources that we have their you know,
Speaker 1: relative to hunting or or habitat enhancement. Um. Hopefully we
Speaker 1: could we could convince somebody to join and become a
Speaker 1: member and help us out. At the very least, they
Speaker 1: can go there and and download our deer reports free download,
Speaker 1: take a look at how their state compares to the
Speaker 1: neighboring states or others in their region, or or others
Speaker 1: anywhere in the country relative to deer hunting. So we'd
Speaker 1: like to share the information, you know, more information in
Speaker 1: the hunter's hands. We see as as a great opportunity.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we encourage anybody to go there and take
Speaker 1: a look at what we got and use anything that
Speaker 1: can help them and enhance other opportunities the field. Terrific.
Speaker 1: Kip Well, I took a look at that report of
Speaker 1: course myself and uh my ugly mug is on the cover,
Speaker 1: so I warned everyone that's not that's not a highlight.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of great information there. I definitely
Speaker 1: encourage folks to go and check it out. Um, a
Speaker 1: wealth of a wealth of resource there. So thank you
Speaker 1: kid for that work and for chatting today. Absolutely, and
Speaker 1: now I think that's a perfect cover you know, over
Speaker 1: the years we have done different covers, you know, with
Speaker 1: big Bucks and smaller Bucks and does and phones. There's
Speaker 1: been lots there and you know, and I thought that
Speaker 1: one captures perfectly like really where we are today as
Speaker 1: a deer hunting community. You know, where where you are
Speaker 1: mentoring somebody else, you're bringing a new hunter into the fold.
Speaker 1: You know, it's the harvest opportunity, but the focus isn't
Speaker 1: just on the animal, you know, what it's on, you know,
Speaker 1: the actual involvement of YouTube in your field that deers
Speaker 1: there with you. So there's a lot of pieces of
Speaker 1: that that that cover that that we're chosen specifically because
Speaker 1: of what they embrace. And so I think that puts
Speaker 1: deer hunting and deer management in a really good light
Speaker 1: for a for where we are. Yeah, it did capture
Speaker 1: a great moment that that certainly is representative of a
Speaker 1: lot of good in uh where we are in deer hunting.
Speaker 1: So I feel super thankful I could have could be
Speaker 1: involved with that. All right, Well, thank you for obviously
Speaker 1: being involved with that, and UH for for what you
Speaker 1: do for wildlife Mark and it's always good to talk
Speaker 1: to you, my friend. Absolutely kid, let's do it against soon,
Speaker 1: all right, that's a rap. Good stuff. Make sure, as
Speaker 1: Kip mentioned, if you're not already a member of the
Speaker 1: National Deer Association, I highly recommend it. They do a
Speaker 1: great job of keeping informed. We've got a terrific magazine.
Speaker 1: They send action alerts when they are important issues in
Speaker 1: which we need to make our voices heard. All good stuff.
Speaker 1: Easy to get signed up, just head to Deer Association
Speaker 1: dot com. So thank you again, and until next time,
Speaker 1: stay wired to hunt.