WEBVTT - Hope It's Helpful

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<v Speaker 1>This is gonna be pretty serious, but I hope it's

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<v Speaker 1>helpful to some people. It's one more thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm strong andy. One more thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm guessing you haven't. But have you ever read Infinite

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<v Speaker 1>Jest by David Foster Wallace? Are you familiar with it?

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<v Speaker 2>Not? Really, No, you've heard of it. Sounds familiar.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a very very big deal book that came out

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<v Speaker 1>in the nineties, won the Pulitzer Prize. But it is.

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<v Speaker 2>That's an indictment, but I have no doubt.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a really big deal of literature and sold many, many,

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<v Speaker 1>many millions of copies. And he was I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>how many times I saw him interviewed on Charlie Rose

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<v Speaker 1>and their biographies of him and the movie made about

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<v Speaker 1>him and everything like that, partially because he killed himself

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<v Speaker 1>when he was in his forties. So this book, Infinite Jest,

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<v Speaker 1>which is like a thousand pages long, I'd never read

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<v Speaker 1>it before. I'm about a third of the way through

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<v Speaker 1>for I don't like it. I don't think it's very good.

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<v Speaker 1>My favorite literary critic, critic Harold Bloom, thought it was crap,

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<v Speaker 1>so maybe I'm influenced by that. I feel like it's

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<v Speaker 1>crap myself, but I'm gonna fight my way through it.

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<v Speaker 1>But a lot of it is about you know you

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<v Speaker 1>write what you know?

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<v Speaker 2>Is this famous of.

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<v Speaker 1>Writers. It's about a guy who It's about a number

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<v Speaker 1>of different things. The main theme of it is supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to be basically how in modern world we're amusing ourselves

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<v Speaker 1>to death, which is a common theme on this show

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<v Speaker 1>and is absolutely true. That's kind of where the title

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<v Speaker 1>infinite jest comes from. But it's about a guy at

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<v Speaker 1>a tennis academy and he's a stoner and he watched

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<v Speaker 1>his TVL time blah blah blah, and David Foster Wallace

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<v Speaker 1>was a big amateur tennis star, and he was a stoner,

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<v Speaker 1>and he suffered from depression and anxiety and everything same

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<v Speaker 1>way as the character in the book. And there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot about that in one character who's in a constantly

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<v Speaker 1>being fifty one to fifty in a mental institution and

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<v Speaker 1>describing their depression and anxiety. And I found it as

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<v Speaker 1>somebody the writer being somebody that had depression and anxiety

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<v Speaker 1>to the level that when he was in his forties

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<v Speaker 1>in Arizona, as a married man, he hung himself from

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<v Speaker 1>his porch, his back porch at his house, and his

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<v Speaker 1>wife came home and found him. But the reason I

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<v Speaker 1>bring this up is I got a couple of people

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<v Speaker 1>in my life who have depression and anxiety. They often

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<v Speaker 1>go together, and I've just never really been able to

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<v Speaker 1>understand it. But I mean, I understand that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you're really really down when you're pressed or anxiety, you

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<v Speaker 1>feel really anxious. That's about all I know.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's good definition.

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<v Speaker 1>It's bothered me that, you know, I can't really relate

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<v Speaker 1>to it, and they're trying to describe it to me

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<v Speaker 1>and they're struggling with it, and I just have never

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<v Speaker 1>quite fully gotten it until I read this book where

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<v Speaker 1>a guy who's a really good writer describes what it

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<v Speaker 1>feels like to be anxious, anxious, or depressed, and he

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<v Speaker 1>does it over many hundreds of pages. So my shorthand

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<v Speaker 1>version won't be that good, But I thought, maybe this

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<v Speaker 1>will be helpful to anyone here who's in a similar

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<v Speaker 1>situation where they don't have it but somebody they know does,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's been helpful to me. One person I know

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<v Speaker 1>who's got depression and anxiety tried to explain it to

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<v Speaker 1>me and gotten close. But for whatever reason the Politiczer

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<v Speaker 1>Prize winning author did a better job of describing the depression,

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<v Speaker 1>mostly being about the hopelessness of it. I'm never imagining

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<v Speaker 1>it ever getting any better, Like I've never had that.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been down before. Everybody gets down, but I've never

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<v Speaker 1>had the I can't I not only I can't imagine

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<v Speaker 1>it getting a better I'm one hundred percent certain it'll

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<v Speaker 1>never get any better.

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<v Speaker 2>Life can include a feeling of and it shouldn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, I'm everything sucks and it will always suck.

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<v Speaker 1>I've never felt that, so I you know, I can

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<v Speaker 1>imagine why if everything, and I mean everything, you get

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<v Speaker 1>no joy from a relationship with your husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, parents, job, music, anything,

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<v Speaker 1>and it will never change.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>That would be a hard thing to convince yourself to

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<v Speaker 1>go ahead and endure constantly trying to get your head

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<v Speaker 1>above that water to.

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<v Speaker 2>Avoid bringing people down with you.

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<v Speaker 1>And again, I'm doing a very shorthand version of this

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<v Speaker 1>that might be pointless compared to the hundreds of pages

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<v Speaker 1>of describing it. But the person in the fictional character

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<v Speaker 1>in the who'd been fifty one fifty with anxiety talking

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<v Speaker 1>to the doctor about it's like when somebody jumps out

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<v Speaker 1>and scares you aah, and you get that adrenaline rush,

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<v Speaker 1>only it's constant and you have no belief that it's

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<v Speaker 1>ever gonna stop, which sounds horrifying. That sounds like a

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<v Speaker 1>really terrible feeling a.

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<v Speaker 2>Lot of anxiety among young people in the modern world.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, to what extent are they just expressing

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<v Speaker 2>the nervousness and foreboding that we all feel through life,

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<v Speaker 2>or to what extent is is there really that much

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<v Speaker 2>more of it in the air. Nobody's really sure. I

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<v Speaker 2>would tend, partly through my own life's experience, to say,

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<v Speaker 2>let's not underestimate it. Let's try to get a handle

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<v Speaker 2>on it. Because their environment, both physical and mental, I

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<v Speaker 2>guess solf physical in a way, but it has changed

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<v Speaker 2>a great deal. The lives kids live right now are

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<v Speaker 2>very different than the lives we lived.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there any chance that the two things came together

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<v Speaker 1>at the same time in an unfortunate perfect storm, that

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<v Speaker 1>there's something in plastics or cell phone towers.

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<v Speaker 2>Or ultra processed foods, ultra processed foods or pesticides. It

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<v Speaker 2>could be anything. Anything contrails all of them. The government hank.

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<v Speaker 1>All of them working together, that all that happened, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, cause people's brains to be more susceptible to

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<v Speaker 1>depression and anxiety. And at the same time, generation generation

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<v Speaker 1>or two of helicopter parents convinced you that the world

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<v Speaker 1>is very dangerous, always very dangerous. No, no, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not going to the park, No way. You and

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<v Speaker 1>your friend are going to the park and riding your

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<v Speaker 1>bike over there and spending the afternoon without me knowing

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<v Speaker 1>what you're doing.

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<v Speaker 2>And learning to take on risk and learning it's okay

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<v Speaker 2>to get lost and find your way back again. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's entirely possible. It's a combination, but.

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<v Speaker 1>That it just accidentally happened at exactly the same time. Boy,

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<v Speaker 1>that's unfortunate.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, or roughly at the same time. Yeah, close enough. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>It may be one thing, it maybe two, it may

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<v Speaker 2>be three. I don't know. Nobody knows. It's it ought

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<v Speaker 2>to be studied.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, constantly, every woman should be terrified of walking

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<v Speaker 1>down the street because every man you.

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<v Speaker 2>Pass is most likely a rapist.

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<v Speaker 1>Right at the same time that their brains might be

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<v Speaker 1>wired to be more anxious and depressed.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's funny. I think it's the other side of

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<v Speaker 2>the coin. That's more significant, the lack of free ranginess

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<v Speaker 2>and exploring and making mistakes. And because you can hit

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<v Speaker 2>me with all the harem scam stuff you want about,

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<v Speaker 2>say a city I know, and I'll say no, I've

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<v Speaker 2>been there, I've tried that, I know what to do,

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<v Speaker 2>I know what to avoid. It'll be fine.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe it's all the one thing. Then that would be

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<v Speaker 1>good news that it's not any the plastics or cell

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<v Speaker 1>phone towers or anything like that, that it's just all

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<v Speaker 1>of us. Would be this way if I had grown

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<v Speaker 1>up being told by my parents that the world is very,

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<v Speaker 1>very scary. Do not leave the house. You're not allowed

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<v Speaker 1>to ride your bike to the park. Who knows my

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<v Speaker 1>brain to be?

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<v Speaker 2>Like?

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<v Speaker 1>You know, like they've discovered in Europe that kids need

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<v Speaker 1>a certain amount of figuring things out on their own

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<v Speaker 1>to get their brain psychology risk.

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<v Speaker 2>They need risk. Yeah, yeah, I don't know the answer

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<v Speaker 2>to that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, nobody does, but we ought to make it a

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<v Speaker 1>high priority to figure it out.

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<v Speaker 2>So when I picture tennis lessons, I picture the tennis

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<v Speaker 2>pro having sex with divorces that end or cheating housewives.

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<v Speaker 2>How is that part of the novel really? That fact? Yes, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of that. There is a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>that in that world. Yeah, I mean, cause you've got

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<v Speaker 2>a super fit youngish man and aging gals in short

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<v Speaker 2>skirts trying to hold onto their beauty and all that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm actually sticking with the book, which I find terrible

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<v Speaker 1>so far.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, what's terrible about it just you don't like to

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<v Speaker 2>write age. I just think it's so hack.

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<v Speaker 1>It just like a lot of the jokes or observations

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<v Speaker 1>are yeah, geez, really, I wish I could think of

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<v Speaker 1>one off the top of my head. I mean, some

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<v Speaker 1>of the things he throws in is like, is this

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to be a clever new thing I've come across

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<v Speaker 1>or I've heard eight million times in my life.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what it is.

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<v Speaker 1>But I actually did a deep dive on this where

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<v Speaker 1>somebody said that's the overall point of the book, that

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<v Speaker 1>we're all swimming in hack regurgitated pop culture, and I thought, well,

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<v Speaker 1>if that's the point, then it's just do I need

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<v Speaker 1>a thousand pages?

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<v Speaker 2>How much? Yeah? Just give me like five hundred words

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<v Speaker 2>on that. And I'm a person.

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<v Speaker 1>Who's willing to read really long books. But I'm to

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<v Speaker 1>the point now that i'm reading it just to try

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<v Speaker 1>to figure out because I'd like to try my hand

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<v Speaker 1>at writing someday. Is just like, this is like one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most revered novels of all time. I got

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<v Speaker 1>to figure out what's going on here? Why that happened?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>What was the book? I wish I read more fiction?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't.

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<v Speaker 1>I started again a couple of years ago, So glad

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<v Speaker 1>I did, and I wanted to stop. Need I need

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<v Speaker 1>a break from nonfiction is making me crazy and unhappy?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can relate. Dang it, I can't

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<v Speaker 2>remember what I read. Oh, it'll come back to my mind,

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<v Speaker 2>just just too late. But was I thought? Yeah it was.

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<v Speaker 2>It was strength. It was September nineteen eighty eight copy

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<v Speaker 2>of Swank, like.

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<v Speaker 1>The magazine Sware an Idiot, which you had to a

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<v Speaker 1>high schooler in a certain era to be aware of

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<v Speaker 1>that pornographic magazine.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, what was I No, it's not a

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<v Speaker 2>top tier, not at all, second tier porn that it

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<v Speaker 2>was like ninety percent of the book and then in

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<v Speaker 2>the last ten percent. Oh, now it's coming back to me.

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<v Speaker 2>At the very end, the author says, essentially, oh, it

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<v Speaker 2>was the Cane mutiny. The Cane mutiny which is a

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<v Speaker 2>brilliant work of fiction. Spoiler alert. As I discussed at

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<v Speaker 2>the time, you get ninety percent of the way through

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<v Speaker 2>the book and you think, yeah, yeah, I get it,

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<v Speaker 2>and you're right, author as bullshit. Yeah. Then the author says,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not bullshit at all. I've led you astray. Here's

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<v Speaker 2>why it's bullshit. Here's why it's not bullshit. And you think,

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<v Speaker 2>oh christ, yep, yep, yep, yep, I made all the

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<v Speaker 2>wrong assumptions. Just like the main characters in the book.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a bit. It's brilliant. So maybe there's a moment

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<v Speaker 2>coming like that, I hope. So the guy instructs the

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<v Speaker 2>gals to go with the two hand backhand, and it

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<v Speaker 2>really changes it.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't get better out of bottom in the rope.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, God put me through a thousand ways too much.

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<v Speaker 1>This tastes too far soon. Back to sirious briefly before

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<v Speaker 1>we end this. It is it is troubling, as if

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<v Speaker 1>I've said someone who knows several people very close that

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<v Speaker 1>I want to do okay, who've suffer from these things.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's a guy, this writer, David foss Wallace, who is brilliant,

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<v Speaker 1>completely aware of a situation completely aware of every bit

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<v Speaker 1>of psychological or medical help available, tried most of it,

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<v Speaker 1>wealthy connected, and he couldn't find a way out. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like the Chandler from Friends thing. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>if you if throwing nine million dollars or whatever he

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<v Speaker 1>threw at here's a dick didn't do the trick, then

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<v Speaker 1>what hope does the regular person have?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's rough Man rough.

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<v Speaker 1>Tomorrow's One More Thing podcast will not be so heavy.

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<v Speaker 3>I have a little clip that I could end with.

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<v Speaker 3>I wanted to play this during the show. And this

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<v Speaker 3>is a guy Walmart. There's a fire.

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<v Speaker 2>Apparently a teenager set fire to a bunch of.

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<v Speaker 1>Bras and so this set fire to at a Walmart

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<v Speaker 1>ros Sears. And so this is about the cup size.

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<v Speaker 1>You got the you got to see you got the

0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.040
<v Speaker 1>d that's the biggest about the cup size.

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<v Speaker 3>So this clip is a guy losing his man card.

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<v Speaker 3>He has a very deep voice in the beginning, and

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<v Speaker 3>it turns very high.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't make this up. Look at this, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>Walmart and written it's on fire.

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<v Speaker 3>What's going on?

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<v Speaker 2>What you bring him? In? His voice got too Yeah, wow,

0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:04.440
<v Speaker 2>he did kind of go Mickey Mouse.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's say that one more time.

0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.600
<v Speaker 2>He can't make this up. Look at this, I mean,

0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:20.840
<v Speaker 2>Walmart is written, It's on fire. What's going Upstia Morrison

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<v Speaker 2>and nz up Beege's what happened?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I guess that's it.

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<v Speaker 2>That was a good ending, Michael