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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,

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Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big

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Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they

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Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode. New listeners, old listeners, wherever.

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Speaker 2: You are in the world.

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Speaker 3: I'm so glad that you have joined us for an

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Speaker 3: episode that I am so very excited about. It's been

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Speaker 3: a long time coming, It's been in the works for

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Speaker 3: a while. I'm bringing on a beautiful guest, a beautiful friend,

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Speaker 3: to talk about things like identity, rituals, creative inspiration, everything

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Speaker 3: and anything in between. Without further ado, I'd love you

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Speaker 3: to introduce yourself.

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Speaker 4: Hello, Hello, Hi, Hi, nice to meet you all. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: big fan.

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Speaker 2: Oh you're a big fan, big big fan of Big Fan.

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Speaker 2: So who are you?

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Speaker 4: That's a good question. Yeah, who am I? No, My

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Speaker 4: name is claud Bailey. My pronouns are they, eat, them, they,

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Speaker 4: and them. I'm a filmmaker and more recently have started

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Speaker 4: doing a lot of work in queer youth, queer youth

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Speaker 4: art projects, workshops, development programs. I don't really know how

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Speaker 4: to sum it up, but I am a big advocate

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Speaker 4: for giving queer youth opportunities to express themselves, and a

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Speaker 4: lot of my filmmaking work because I write, direct and produce,

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Speaker 4: is you know, centering queer youth as well. I just

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Speaker 4: I love them. They're the future.

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Speaker 2: They are, they are in the future. You did an

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Speaker 2: amazing film recently, didn't you.

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Speaker 4: I did.

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Speaker 3: Can you talk about it a little bit? I feel

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Speaker 3: like people would love to hear about it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I made a film called right Here, premiered at

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Speaker 4: Sydney Film Festival.

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Speaker 2: Which ye are ye huh Well City Film Festival.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 4: When I got the email, I screamed in the street.

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Speaker 4: It was a really gorgeous moment and I called my

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Speaker 4: best friend.

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Speaker 2: I was like, it happened.

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Speaker 4: I did cry.

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Speaker 2: I would be crying.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was. I always went to that festival when

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Speaker 4: I was much younger and want to be a filmmaker.

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Speaker 4: So then getting to have my film there was a

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Speaker 4: really big moment. But that film was my fifth short

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Speaker 4: film and my last. I think, really, yeah, I'm done

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Speaker 4: with short films anyway. But it was about a young

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Speaker 4: non binary person. They came out to their parents and

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Speaker 4: their birthday didn't go very well. You don't really see that,

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Speaker 4: and then they materialize at their future self's birthday party

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Speaker 4: and they see the life they're going to have and

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Speaker 4: the community they're going to have. Because I think a

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Speaker 4: really big thing is that when you're a teenager or

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Speaker 4: a kid queer youth, generally, you don't have any control

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Speaker 4: over your environment. You don't have any control over your school,

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Speaker 4: over your family. And so I wanted to give young

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Speaker 4: people some tangible hope. That's like, if right now your

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Speaker 4: environment is not it, it's coming, I promise you, because

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Speaker 4: it happened for me, and it happened for so many

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Speaker 4: queer folk around me. So it's coming. You just gotta

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Speaker 4: and like, unfortunately, hold tight because it's all yours. And

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Speaker 4: that's what the film's about.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's an amazing message. Yeah, that's beautiful.

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Speaker 4: We're gonna bring it to schools all around Australia this year.

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Speaker 4: I have a I'm working with Wear at Purple, which

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Speaker 4: is a non for profit queer youth organization, and we're

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Speaker 4: gonna try and get it to young people all around

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Speaker 4: to be like here, yeah, have this.

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Speaker 2: Little nugget of joy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, as someone who like obviously we both grew up

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Speaker 3: in Australia. I don't think there was any queer representation

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Speaker 3: in any of my curriculum growing up.

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Speaker 2: None at all.

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Speaker 6: Oh not in curriculum, oh in a facet like you know,

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Speaker 6: And I went to a pretty progressive school, and even

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Speaker 6: with in that environment, it was like, this isn't really

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Speaker 6: spoken about and it's not something that was like I

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Speaker 6: think people had access to or were able to be

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Speaker 6: educated on, which is so bizarre to me.

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Speaker 3: Because I'm like, it does make up such an amazing,

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Speaker 3: vibrant part of our society. It's just part of everyday

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Speaker 3: life for so many people, even people who aren't queer.

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Speaker 2: So I'm really excited that you're able to do that.

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Speaker 4: Well, That's what's very interesting is that I'm working with

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Speaker 4: a lot of queer youth right now and they have

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Speaker 4: a lot more access to online spaces and to recomentation.

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Speaker 4: But what I'm finding is that even though they have

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Speaker 4: all this access, they have the terminology, they have the language,

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Speaker 4: they know it's out there, they still though cannot touch it.

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Speaker 4: It's beyond their grasps. And at a lot of schools

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Speaker 4: there's the QSA, the Queer Straight Alliance and different pride

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Speaker 4: groups and there's those spaces, but it's still it's still

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Speaker 4: out of grasp, still not in reach, and so I

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Speaker 4: think it's still extremely important.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's actually really good point, because I do feel

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Speaker 3: like with the rise of social media and things like that,

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Speaker 3: which we talk about it quite a bit on the podcast,

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Speaker 3: and how it's changed our dynamics with other people and

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Speaker 3: our relationships to ourselves, the fact that you're like that

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Speaker 3: still isn't something that's like tangible for them. But I

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Speaker 3: want to talk about this a little bit more like

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Speaker 3: how you talked about how your film, the concept of

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Speaker 3: your film was giving that hope to queer youth. Was

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Speaker 3: that something that you drew a lot from your personal experience?

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Speaker 3: How much of that was really like thinking about your

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Speaker 3: past and thinking about how you came to really like

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Speaker 3: embrace and show people your identity.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well I went to a Catholic or girls' school.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, yeah, positive. Yeah, And I was in the closet,

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Speaker 4: but I didn't even know I was in the closet.

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Speaker 4: Like I was in Nannia and I was living there,

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Speaker 4: and like I was in love with my best friend

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Speaker 4: in high school, but I didn't that didn't equate to

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Speaker 4: me being queer. I was just like, oh, I love her.

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Speaker 4: I love her, but I'm not a lesbian and I

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Speaker 4: don't identify as a lesbian now anyway. Interesting, but I

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Speaker 4: think that I didn't even have any of the tools

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Speaker 4: to start to understand who I was or how I identified.

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Speaker 4: That wasn't that wasn't around me whatsoever. We were all

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Speaker 4: boy crazy and yeah, it just that. Again, that's what's

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Speaker 4: so interesting about young people now is that they do

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Speaker 4: have the access to understand what the queer world is

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Speaker 4: like and what is out there, but they don't. They

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Speaker 4: can't grasp. But I didn't even know. I had no idea.

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Speaker 4: So I think back to my younger self, and I

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Speaker 4: have so much love for them. I have so much

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Speaker 4: love because not that I had a really great upbringing

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Speaker 4: and I had a really gorgeous time in high school,

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Speaker 4: but I just never really felt like myself. I never

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Speaker 4: felt comfortable in my skin, I never really like I

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Speaker 4: never had any high school boyfriends and everyone did, and

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Speaker 4: I just thought that I was broken and all the

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Speaker 4: sexual experiences I had were never fulfilling. So I always

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Speaker 4: just thought, oh, this makes wrong with me. And so

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Speaker 4: one thing, like I always say that queerness is the

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Speaker 4: most beautiful thing about my life. It really is in

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Speaker 4: every facet.

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Speaker 3: Like.

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Speaker 4: We'll probably go into it, but I just I didn't

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Speaker 4: even know. And so when I started, when I did

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Speaker 4: come out and then started to enter community, I was like, whoa,

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Speaker 4: I just I was blind. Now I can see, like's

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Speaker 4: it was life changing.

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Speaker 3: That sounds like a genuinely incredibly enlightening experience. And one

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Speaker 3: thing I think that a lot of us don't really

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Speaker 3: get right, like coming to terms with some part of

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Speaker 3: our identity that has been concealed for some time, even

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Speaker 3: people who are listening to this who may not identify

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Speaker 3: as queer. That's not something that happens all the time.

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Speaker 3: But I do just want to take a step back here,

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Speaker 3: and you know, you talked about how your identity has

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Speaker 3: kind of did from your adolescence, even your childhood maybe

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Speaker 3: to like your adulthood, but like, how would you define

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Speaker 3: it now? How would you define your queer identity of.

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Speaker 2: The broader queer identity in general?

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Speaker 4: Big question.

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Speaker 3: We can we can buy, we can see bite sized chunks.

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Speaker 3: I just kind of want to know like that, you know,

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Speaker 3: you like how you said you were in the closet

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Speaker 3: and you didn't even know it, Yeah, and now you're

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Speaker 3: this amazing individual who is able to impact young people's

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Speaker 3: lives with your message, with your stories. Like what was

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Speaker 3: the kind of journey from that place when you're in

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Speaker 3: high school to the place you are now?

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Speaker 4: I think the biggest part of it was visibility. I

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Speaker 4: only really understood these things within me when I saw

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Speaker 4: it in others. That was and also experience, like I

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Speaker 4: don't know, I kind of branched into two sections, like

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Speaker 4: sexuality and gender because they are completely different. And I

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Speaker 4: think a lot of people bunch gender and sexuality together

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Speaker 4: because it's under the LGBTQIO plus you know header, But

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Speaker 4: they're such different and also they intercross a lot as well.

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Speaker 4: But for me, it was very separate. I realized I

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Speaker 4: was gay or queer first, and that was this slow

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Speaker 4: experience through relationships and through having Like I remember when

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Speaker 4: I had my first crush outside of the person I

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Speaker 4: loved in high school. It was very beautiful because I

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Speaker 4: was like, oh, this wasn't just a one time thing,

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Speaker 4: this is actually something inside of me. And it took

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Speaker 4: a while to walk that path because I had never

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Speaker 4: done it before. I didn't know anyone. I felt like

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Speaker 4: that one I did kind of alone, and it was

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Speaker 4: very slow, and it also took a lot of me

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Speaker 4: breaking down so many barriers that I had about me

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Speaker 4: being broken that came from, which is such a.

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Speaker 3: Hard experience to think. If you it kind of hurts

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Speaker 3: me to think that you ever thought of yourself that way.

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Speaker 4: I thought of myself for that way for such a

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Speaker 4: long time. On the other side of that was the

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Speaker 4: most liberating and healing thing, and that's why I say

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Speaker 4: quickness is one of the most gorgeous things about my life,

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Speaker 4: because it was like, oh, these things, yeah, yeah, they

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Speaker 4: were not working for you for many different reasons. Let's

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Speaker 4: give you another avenue to explore yourself. And through that

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Speaker 4: I was able to feel lovable. And it was very

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Speaker 4: relationship based, but gender has been the most personal thing

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Speaker 4: to me, and it was through I guess another relationship.

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Speaker 4: But I met someone who became one of my best

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Speaker 4: friends who was trans is trans and I saw in

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Speaker 4: them or him what I always felt inside of me.

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Speaker 4: And that's why I say visibility. I saw it and

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Speaker 4: I went, hey, I really feel this thing and I

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Speaker 4: can't really describe it, but I just feel it.

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Speaker 5: And then I.

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Speaker 4: Started asking friends to you they them again because I

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Speaker 4: had met other non binary people and it just felt right.

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Speaker 4: It didn't really make sense. I didn't understand it, but

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Speaker 4: it just felt right. And then people started using they them.

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Speaker 4: And it's not even about the words, to be honest,

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Speaker 4: It's just about a feeling.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean?

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Speaker 3: It's not about the words because I feel like and

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Speaker 3: I just feel like, this is such an interesting thing

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Speaker 3: because I think when we think about the political space

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Speaker 3: and whatever and how politics and personal opinion and public

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Speaker 3: opinion interacts with our lives, like a big discussion is

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Speaker 3: around like the use of pronouns.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's like the most exhausting part of all of

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Speaker 4: it is that our identity as queer or trans people

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Speaker 4: is political now.

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Speaker 2: And it's fucked.

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Speaker 4: Am I allowed to swear?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: It is fucked because you know what I feel like,

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Speaker 3: only like the people who are oppressed, their lives become political.

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Speaker 4: It's true.

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Speaker 3: It's such lives are not political as much as like,

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Speaker 3: you know, a heterois man might want to say that, like,

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Speaker 3: oh my life is political because I could be anceled.

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Speaker 3: That's not a political thing, the same way that like

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Speaker 3: abortion is a political thing, or like, you know, access

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Speaker 3: to curriculum or schools. If you're someone who is transgender

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Speaker 3: or non binary, is a fucking political thing these That's

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Speaker 3: why I.

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Speaker 4: Say that if I had it my way, I would

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Speaker 4: not talk about my gender experience with anyone because I

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Speaker 4: don't have words for it.

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Speaker 2: Still.

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Speaker 4: It has always been based in feeling and I can't

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Speaker 4: really summarize it. And what sucks is that pronouns are

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Speaker 4: such an external thing. People can misgender you every single day.

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Speaker 4: People say you're coming out every single day, and that

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Speaker 4: is exhausting, and I wish I could. I just always

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Speaker 4: define my gender as like a floating bob in the ether,

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Speaker 4: which makes cist people go what the fuck on about?

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Speaker 2: But it's kind of a beautiful metaphor.

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Speaker 4: I just I don't feel like man, I feel like women.

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Speaker 4: I just want to exist and not be seen as

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Speaker 4: either blah blah blah. But I will talk about it

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Speaker 4: because visibility is what grant me to feel like myself.

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Speaker 4: So I will do this so hopefully someone can listen

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Speaker 4: and go, oh, I feel that within me as well,

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Speaker 4: because that is the most beautiful gift we can give

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Speaker 4: each other, is that feeling of coming home to yourself.

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Speaker 4: So I will do it because I want others to

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Speaker 4: feel this way. But it's exhausting. It's the most personal thing.

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Speaker 4: Like just imagine any part of your identity that is

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Speaker 4: like inside of you that you don't have words for it.

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Speaker 4: It's like a little locked box. Having to find words

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Speaker 4: for it and be able to, you know, talk about

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Speaker 4: it on panels and make work about it. It's a lot,

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Speaker 4: and I don't hate it. I have found a way

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Speaker 4: to love it because now I am finding ways to

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Speaker 4: give other young people the opportunity to make work about

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Speaker 4: it and create have expression with it all. But it's

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Speaker 4: a really confusing thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my gosh, I can only imagine, and it's

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Speaker 3: actually really interesting for me to hear and be like,

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Speaker 3: I'm asking you these questions right now, and the fact

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Speaker 3: that you've learned to love this thing. But then I

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Speaker 3: think about my own experience, like no one's ever question

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Speaker 3: my identity that way. We kind of have it easy,

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Speaker 3: like I never have to explain that because it falls

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Speaker 3: into a very like easy box for people to understand.

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Speaker 3: And I really do respect what you're saying about how

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Speaker 3: it's like it comes with a lot of almost emotional burden.

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Speaker 2: Would you say that's the right word?

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Speaker 4: Formational? Labor, emotional labor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but yet you still feel this duty to do it.

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Speaker 4: I think what's really difficult is that I people, so,

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Speaker 4: for example, someone on the street, your family member, anyone

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Speaker 4: asks you these questions about your transit's your queerness, and

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Speaker 4: for them it's just another chat, another discussion, another thing

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Speaker 4: they're curious about. It's a dinner table conversation. For you,

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Speaker 4: it is the most personal and sacred part. And these

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Speaker 4: conversations sometimes are really beautiful and healing and gorgeous, and

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Speaker 4: I don't think they shouldn't happen. That's how we bridge understanding.

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Speaker 4: But there is a lot of times that there is

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Speaker 4: no acknowledgment of how much emotional labor the person from

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Speaker 4: the marginalized group has to do because they're experiencing so

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Speaker 4: much all the time, they're experiencing people saying horrible things

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Speaker 4: on Instagram or saying things on the street, that this

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Speaker 4: isn't just another dinner table conversations. Is them having to, like,

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Speaker 4: you know, pull out that drawer and bring out their

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Speaker 4: palm cards, that they've had to work out how to

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Speaker 4: talk about these things, and it's just it is so personal,

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Speaker 4: and I think it's it's that I always like to

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Speaker 4: say to you, it's a dinner table conversation. To me,

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Speaker 4: it's my heart.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I guess that kind of links back with

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Speaker 3: what we were talking about, how it's become quite politicized

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Speaker 3: in a way that very few other elements of our

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Speaker 3: identity other than like probably religion, have become politicized. And

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Speaker 3: even then it's very different.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's like the minority Olympics you hear

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Speaker 4: about these days, that like so many parts of our

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Speaker 4: identity are politicized now. It's confusing that, you know, if

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Speaker 4: you say, And honestly, since coming out a non binary,

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Speaker 4: I have risk gotten so many more opportunities work wise,

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Speaker 4: and it's interesting. I go, Okay, cool, all my emotional labor.

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Speaker 4: I guess it's coming through this way in a in

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Speaker 4: a weird, strange way. But nothing's good or bad. It's

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Speaker 4: just it's just what it is, yeah, which is a

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Speaker 4: great way. You're just such a stoic I always say, clude,

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Speaker 4: there's a stoicedness.

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Speaker 2: You love life for what it contains, but you're very

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Speaker 2: much like it's finite.

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Speaker 4: I guess, yeah, the fragility of life, so you might

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Speaker 4: as well enjoy it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh yeah, absolutely well. With that in mind, I

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Speaker 3: feel like you're talking. You're talking a lot about this

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Speaker 3: emotional labor, which I think that someone like me can't understand,

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Speaker 3: right Like, I'm never going to understand it the way

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Speaker 3: that you've already understood it at your age. Is there

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Speaker 3: anything that you're like, Okay, I wish people would just

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Speaker 3: understand this about me, or about the people that are

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Speaker 3: like me, or about the people that I have community

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Speaker 3: with that isn't talked about much, Like what would you

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Speaker 3: say is a big misunderstanding that if you had the

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Speaker 3: opportunity you could correct, or something that you would love

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Speaker 3: to be like, Okay, you know you're at a dinner

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Speaker 3: table conversation with your family. What's a question you wish

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Speaker 3: wasn't asked that you could correct? Right now?

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Speaker 4: I think my main thing is to tell them you

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Speaker 4: don't have to understand it to respect it. I love

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Speaker 4: if you are trying to understand it and come from

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Speaker 4: a place of empathy and openness and that you want

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Speaker 4: to listen. But you don't have to understand what it

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Speaker 4: means to be non binary, or what it means to

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Speaker 4: be trands or like the logistics of it all. That's

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Speaker 4: not really your business and you maybe can ask to

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Speaker 4: depending on the relationship in the person, but you don't

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Speaker 4: have to understand to just respect it. Yeah, that's the

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Speaker 4: main thing, because it is I always say, it is

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Speaker 4: a gift if someone gives you their vulnerability and their

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Speaker 4: insights in all of this, because they're living in every

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Speaker 4: day and they're talking about it to all of their

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Speaker 4: friends and people in their life all the time. So

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Speaker 4: if they want to give that to you, that's really gorgeous.

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Speaker 4: But it should be like you should handle it as

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Speaker 4: a gift, not as just something that you take.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, which I think is like a great attitude with

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Speaker 3: many things, Like someone's giving you their time and their

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Speaker 3: energy and their they're very carefully thought out words like

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Speaker 3: you've said, you know, those flash cards almost of information

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Speaker 3: and things that they need to plan to say. Have

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Speaker 3: you found that, like in the conversations you've had with family,

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Speaker 3: that there's people who haven't wanted to understand or haven't

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Speaker 3: wanted to respect. Yeah, all the time.

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Speaker 4: Happens all the time. You can sniff it instantly when

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Speaker 4: someone is inquisitive and curious and wants to know, And

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Speaker 4: it's very different when someone doesn't give a fuck.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what's what?

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Speaker 3: How can you tell the difference, because I feel like

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Speaker 3: the line of questioning to begin with might be quite similar.

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Speaker 2: You can just a lot.

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Speaker 4: A lot of it is in the tone. If someone

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Speaker 4: feels like they're arguing with you to some extent, and

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Speaker 4: that's really hard because they're arguing about your identity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not none of their business, I guess as well,

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Speaker 3: which is the strange thing like.

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Speaker 4: And also if they want to actually understand versus I

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Speaker 4: don't know what versus, but if they judge all yeah,

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Speaker 4: but they're here to be like, hey, I don't really

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Speaker 4: get that. Like I love when people in my life

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Speaker 4: who you know, aren't queer sit me down and be like, hey,

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Speaker 4: I love you so much and I really want to

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Speaker 4: get like understand this of you more. Can you tell

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Speaker 4: me about it more? And it's something that was really

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Speaker 4: beautiful the film I made. The actor in it, the

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Speaker 4: lead is this amazing non binary person who I adore,

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Speaker 4: and they told me this really beautiful story that I

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Speaker 4: feel like they won't mind me sharing. Their mum, who's

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Speaker 4: also this amazing filmmaker who I'm a big fan of.

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Speaker 4: She was like, I love your queerness.

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Speaker 2: I want to.

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Speaker 4: Understand it more. It's one of my favorite things about you.

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Speaker 4: I cried because I was like, oh my gosh, that's stunning.

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Speaker 4: I've heard enough of Oh I'll love you despite this,

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Speaker 4: or I love you no matter what, even like I

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Speaker 4: want you to love me because of this, because it's

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Speaker 4: one of my favorite things about me. And I don't

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Speaker 4: mean this with like family, I just mean this generally.

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Speaker 4: It's like a gorgeous thing about a person. I wish

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Speaker 4: everyone could be queer. It's the best thing about being alive.

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Speaker 2: It really is is.

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Speaker 3: But why do you say that, like when you talk

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Speaker 3: about well, I guess it's like that visibility.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about the community.

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Speaker 4: The community. It's even out like outside of the relationships

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Speaker 4: and quit intimacy, which is also stunning.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, we were talking about that earlier, like that

404
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 3: book that I've been reading that.

405
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Speaker 2: Was really really interesting, and how it was.

406
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Speaker 3: About no monogamy, nom monogamy, yeah, open relationships, polyamory, and

407
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Speaker 3: how so much of the hetero conceptualization of that idea

408
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 3: has come from inspiration from from queer culture and queer

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Speaker 3: identities and and people who have adopted that within like

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Speaker 3: lesbian communities and whatnot, and how the relationships that they

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Speaker 3: have with each other has kind of almost been taken

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Speaker 3: as inspiration for how us as a heteros like you know,

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Speaker 3: as a hetero person, approaches concepts like that. It's like

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Speaker 3: so fascinating, so interesting.

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Speaker 4: Honestly, I wish everyone could get a little portal into

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Speaker 4: all the conversations I have with my queer friends, because

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00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 4: they about connection and about navigating. Like I was having

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Speaker 4: this gorgeous conversation today about cross pollination, so oh what

419
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Speaker 4: does that mean? Essentially like the web so especially we're

420
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Speaker 4: currently on Gadigal Land in Sydney and in the Inner West,

421
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:28,239
Speaker 4: the quick community is quite dense. Everyone knows each other,

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Speaker 4: Everyone's fucked each other. Everyone, it's very interwoven. And we

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Speaker 4: were talking today about how to navigate that, and I've

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Speaker 4: had a lot of experience in that, and I think

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00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 4: we came down to that if you have a connection

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Speaker 4: with someone, if you want someone, always go out go

427
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 4: for that like that you should. Again depends on everyone's

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Speaker 4: moral compasses and relationships and dynamics. But also it's all

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Speaker 4: about communication and it's all about being conscious of other

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Speaker 4: people's feeling and like queer people because we have to

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Speaker 4: do that all the time. Our pool is a lot

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Speaker 4: smaller than the very world. We have learnt these skills

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Speaker 4: of how to not always because sometimes it's really tricky,

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Speaker 4: but you know, everyone is friends with their exes or

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00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,239
Speaker 4: one of their exes. Everyone knows friends of friends who

436
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 4: have slept with each other, seen each other, whatever it is.

437
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 4: It's so interwoven. You have to learn these skills and

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00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 4: it's really gorgeous. But going back to where I love

439
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 4: the queer community, Yeah, I.

440
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 3: Want to hear everything about it. I feel like it's

441
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 3: such an important thing to talk about.

442
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 4: Like it's like if you're out there and you're a

443
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 4: baby queer, a baby queer, you're you're queer, you maybe

444
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 4: haven't come out or you don't have much community. Oh gosh,

445
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 4: it is stunning because no matter where, Like I just

446
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 4: went to the US last year and it was my

447
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 4: first time going overseas queer like out and queer. Any

448
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: anywhere I went, I would go to a queer bar, event,

449
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 4: trans space, whatever, and every time I instantly felt safe

450
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 4: and like I was with family, And that is what

451
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 4: it always feels like going into a queer space, not

452
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 4: always a gay space, but that's a whole other thing.

453
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 4: By going into a queer space you walk in, people

454
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 4: will always make sure they look after you. People will

455
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 4: always like have chats to you, welcome you, be inclusive.

456
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 4: It is this con like this big, huge network that

457
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 4: you can just dive in and people are they just

458
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 4: everyone's had the same shared experience and a lot of

459
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 4: people have had that in isolation or you know, completely

460
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 4: by themselves regionally in their Catholic or girls school, whatever

461
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 4: it is. Everyone has had a very similar experience and

462
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 4: different ones, but like a core thing. So it just

463
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 4: connects you in a way that you know, that's a

464
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 4: lot of community. Well we called chosen family, you know,

465
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 4: because a lot of queer people's family don't always accept

466
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 4: them or understands them. So like, you know, over Christmas,

467
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 4: I went to Queer Christmases and it was just filled

468
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 4: with community and it was so gorgeous. I don't know

469
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 4: what else to say. I just it's one of my

470
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 4: favorite things about being alive because it integrates all of

471
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 4: these different kind of relationship structures. It puts in family,

472
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 4: and it puts in friendship and love and like romantic

473
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 4: love into one huge I keep saying cessedpot that is

474
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 4: not it but like no, but.

475
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 2: Like a gorgeous community.

476
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 4: Yummy dish, oh y, it's gorgeous.

477
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 2: It does sound really beautiful.

478
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 3: That's an amazing I think outlook. And especially when as

479
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: we were talking about like the baby queers, I've never

480
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 3: heard that. I think that feels like the most beautiful

481
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 3: phrase ever. And people he were saying, like, you're listening

482
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 3: to this or or even the film you made, which

483
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: was targeted towards people.

484
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: Who might be in like a pretty dark space, who

485
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,199
Speaker 2: like or in in a.

486
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 3: Pretty isolating space, who haven't maybe been able to be

487
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 3: truthful with themselves or those around them. And there might

488
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 3: be people who are listening to this right now who

489
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 3: are going through something really similar and who are really

490
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 3: questioning whether they do want to come out and whether

491
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 3: that's the right thing for them to do in their

492
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 3: community and their cultural group and their family. And they

493
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: might be listening to this with fear or excitement. So

494
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 3: do you have any words of wisdom, any advice for

495
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: people who are in that situation?

496
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 4: I think that coming out is quite archaic because if

497
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 4: you are in a position that you do not feel

498
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 4: safe too, I'm putting air quotes, come out with your

499
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 4: family or cultural group or religious group or whatever it is.

500
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 4: You can for your own safety not come out to

501
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 4: those people, but you can still access community, whether that

502
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 4: be online or whether that be in physical spaces, depending

503
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 4: on your situation. That it doesn't need to be this

504
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 4: huge overnight I'm out and proud.

505
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 2: You know, fuck you support me.

506
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 4: It doesn't need to be that. If you need to

507
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 4: stagger it, if you need to have it in only

508
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 4: safe spaces, that is okay, it is. It doesn't matter

509
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 4: because it is up to you and your safety. And

510
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 4: that's what's really hard. And I drill home about all

511
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 4: of this as well. So much of queerness is about safety.

512
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 4: That's why we gather in community. That's why we have

513
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 4: our echo chambers, is because we do not feel safe

514
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 4: out in the world all the time overseas are so

515
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 4: many anti queer laws in so many different countries, Like

516
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 4: there is a reason we congregate at the bearded tit

517
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 4: and you know, our different watering holes, because that is

518
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,239
Speaker 4: the place. And then I also say, it is all

519
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 4: coming for you. Whether you have it right now you don't,

520
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 4: I really am sending so much love to you. If

521
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 4: you do not have that right now and you don't

522
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 4: feel it's successible, but I just promise you to hold

523
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 4: out because there's so many little pockets. There's going to

524
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 4: be the people that are yours, and you're going to

525
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 4: find them.

526
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 5: It's stunning, Claude, you do some amazing things for your

527
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 5: emotional and your mental and your spiritual wellbeing.

528
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 3: I would say that really kind of I think drew

529
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 3: me to you when we first met, and then as

530
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 3: I started following along with like some of the things

531
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 3: you're posting online and then some of the discussions we've

532
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 3: had recently, it's just become even more prominent to me,

533
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: Like what an amazing inspiration you are for the specific

534
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 3: like activities that you do that really help, like resenter

535
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 3: you can you talk a bit about them. I want

536
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 3: to hear about the solo dates in particular. I feel

537
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: like this is solo dates. The soli dates is like

538
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 3: one of the best ideas I've heard in.

539
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: A long time.

540
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 4: Well, I think soli dates is heard about, but I

541
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 4: have a structure that I'd be doing for the last

542
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 4: three years that every month I go on a solo

543
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 4: date to an Italian restaurant. You can choose your own.

544
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 4: You don't have to be Italian that's just what I like.

545
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 2: Vie whatever you like.

546
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 4: But I like to do Italian so I love Italian food,

547
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 4: and I book myself into a restaurant, I bring my journal,

548
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 4: and every time as well, I book there always like

549
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 4: just for one person, I'm like, yeah, babe. Well, at

550
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 4: the start of the solo dates, I would be a

551
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 4: bit timid and be like, yeah, it's just me. But no,

552
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 4: now I'm like, yes, it's just me. I go to

553
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 4: a different Italian restaurant every single time. And I have

554
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 4: these set of questions that I, you know, ask myself

555
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 4: where I journal about them. So I will put like

556
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 4: my date number, where I'm at physically, like the location,

557
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 4: and then I ask myself, what did you do today?

558
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 4: And I write in extreme detail because that will be

559
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 4: so interesting to look back on when I'm an old,

560
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 4: old person. And then I ask what are you looking

561
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 4: forward to? And I do little dot points, and I

562
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 4: do what's on your mind or on your heart, and

563
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 4: I just let myself blurge whatever is taking up brain space.

564
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 4: And then what are you proud of yourself for? And

565
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 4: I do little dot points and then the last three

566
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 4: texts I receive because I think that's just another interesting

567
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 4: thing to see. And I'll be doing that every single

568
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 4: month for the last three years, and it is such

569
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 4: a beautiful thing, like a gift to yourself every month,

570
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 4: but also a moment of reflection and to see what

571
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 4: you want to, what you're looking forward to, where you've been,

572
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 4: where you're at. And at the end of every solid date,

573
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 4: I read the entry from the month before, and it's wild.

574
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 4: Every time I say what are you looking forward to

575
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 4: or what do you want, everything happens like really like

576
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 4: it it always does, and also like it could be

577
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 4: big things, it could be small things, but it just

578
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 4: keeps you on track for what you really want in

579
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 4: your life. And I think having rituals like that is

580
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 4: just a really gorgeous thing to be able to check

581
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 4: in with yourself and continually check in with your gut

582
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 4: and that you're on the path that you want to

583
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 4: be on. Because we have a short time on this earth,

584
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 4: we really do, but it's also the longest thing we're

585
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 4: ever going to know, because it's like human you know,

586
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 4: the human time, Like that's all we know. But it's

587
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 4: the longest but also shortest thing because it's inevitably going

588
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 4: to end. So I want to be living my life

589
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 4: how I fucking want to, like, how I want to be.

590
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 4: I want to be doing what I want. I want

591
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 4: to be following my gut. I want to be always

592
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 4: prioritizing my well being, my pleasure, my joy. And so

593
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 4: it's something it's a way for me to continually do that,

594
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 4: because it's very easy in life to get swept away

595
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 4: and feel monotonous or disassociated or out of touch and

596
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 4: get into a routine that you're not in touch with yourself.

597
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 4: So it's something it really allows for me to continually

598
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 4: check in.

599
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I feel like those rituals are such an

600
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 3: important part of our twenties, right, And I love what

601
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 3: you're saying about knowing that like and hoping that you're

602
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 3: going to get to the age where you can be

603
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 3: reflective on these points and being like, I'm going to

604
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 3: be able to track my development and like my goals

605
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 3: and and things like that.

606
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 4: And also I read back these entries from like, you know,

607
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 4: a few years ago, and the things that when I

608
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 4: would say what's in your mind or what's in your heart,

609
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 4: and I'd read those splurges of my anxieties or whatever

610
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 4: was happening years later, months later, that's fluff. I don't

611
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 4: remember it, or I it's not important to me anymore.

612
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 4: And it teaches me that when I'm feeling anxious about

613
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 4: something or I my brain is spiraling about something, that

614
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 4: that is always transitory, like it is, it isn't gonna

615
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 4: be there for long. So if you're feeling it, let

616
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 4: it swell. But also there are times to externalize and

617
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 4: step out of it because it's really not gonna be

618
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 4: there forever. Some things are, but a lot of things

619
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 4: are just going to float away and you're not going

620
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 4: to really remember it.

621
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have this saying that I stay.

622
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: Quite a bit on the podcast, which is that like,

623
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 3: if it's not going to matter in five years, you

624
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 3: shouldn't think about it for longer than five.

625
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 4: It's not gonna matter for a month, should you know.

626
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 3: It's well, that's the thing, right, It's like and I

627
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 3: totally have that experience as well, which is like why

628
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 3: I also am a huge proponent of journaling of in

629
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 3: some way keeping track of your journey through life. I

630
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 3: like read back on this journal entry from like twenty seventeen,

631
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 3: which is what like six years ago, Yeah, and I

632
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: was like talking about this person. I was like I'm

633
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 3: not gonna say their name because I feel like I

634
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 3: don't know they are a real person, but I was like,

635
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 3: let's call them Lucy. I was like, Lucy said this

636
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: really mean thing to me, And then you know, Anna

637
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 3: was like saying this thing and that, and I was

638
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 3: so annoying and I was so mad and like blah

639
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 3: blah blah. I don't even remember who those people are.

640
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 3: Like I was reading back on that journal.

641
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 2: Entry, and I was like, who is Anna? Who is Lucy?

642
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 3: Like I don't have any idea of who they are,

643
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 3: but I think that like, especially in this like like

644
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 3: this decade of life where it's like this is our

645
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 3: first decade of adulthood, everything feels so permanent and so severe,

646
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 3: and we no longer have like the shelter of our

647
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 3: families and the shelter of being young to.

648
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: Kind of protect us. Things can feel so much more

649
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: serious than they actually are.

650
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 4: But also flip that we are still so young. Your twenties,

651
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 4: we were talking about this before, are famously the time

652
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 4: of making mistakes, experimenting, working out who you are. So

653
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 4: it's also that it's okay to go through all those

654
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 4: growing pains still you know you're not you haven't got

655
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,919
Speaker 4: your shit sorted in your twenties, is whatsoever?

656
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah?

657
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 3: No, literally, I feel like and it's so interesting. I think,

658
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 3: like meeting other people who are doing something similar and

659
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 3: like doing a creative thing and being like, WHOA, like

660
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 3: this is I never expected that I'd end up here.

661
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 2: And I always think about who I was.

662
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 3: Ten years ago or five years ago, and I'm like, WHOA,

663
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 3: this person would never have really been able to conceptualize

664
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 3: or have any understanding of, you know, the loves that

665
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 3: I've had, the mistakes that I've made, the moves that

666
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 3: I've made, like and that's going to keep happening, I know.

667
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 3: And that's like, actually such a beautiful thing to me,

668
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: because I think sometimes I get quite worried about like

669
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 3: the passing of time, and I'm like, oh my god,

670
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 3: this is so stressful that like life is so finite

671
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 3: and there's so much I want to do, and you know,

672
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 3: time just keeps passing. And then I'm like the fact

673
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 3: that I like look back on the last five years

674
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 3: of my life and I'm like, you know, by the

675
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 3: in five years time, i won't be thirty, i won't

676
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 3: even be thirty yet, and I will have all of

677
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 3: those experiences and so many more yet again, and like

678
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 3: I just cannot wait for it. It makes me feel

679
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 3: so optimistic to reflect and then also look forward.

680
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 2: I don't know if you have that same experience.

681
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:17,439
Speaker 4: I always loved getting older. I've always just I've every

682
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 4: time I get a year old, a go, thank the Lord.

683
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 4: Just I love getting older. I can't wait. I love

684
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 4: being this age. I'm excited to be my thirties. I'm

685
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 4: excited to be my forties. I'm excited to be in

686
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 4: my fifties. I don't want to rush it, but I

687
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 4: love getting older. I love juicing more experiences up and

688
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 4: becoming who I am because every year it gets better,

689
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 4: Like oh it's so hard, something like last year was

690
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:45,359
Speaker 4: fucking hard, but it was every year. I'm just getting

691
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 4: closer and closer to myself. And I was saying to

692
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 4: you before, and this might be different in Claudia in

693
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 4: a year's time would be like what the fuck man,

694
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 4: what are you're saying? But I don't get nervous anymore.

695
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 4: I have. I feel so confident in myself and that

696
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 4: is so cool. And maybe you know, I like to

697
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 4: say this quote I heard somewhere, which is you will

698
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 4: lose yourself over and over again, and you will find

699
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 4: yourself over and over again. So I'm sure there are

700
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 4: times that I will feel extremely nervous and anxious and

701
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 4: all those things. But as I keep getting older, I

702
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 4: just feel more in myself. And I think that's a

703
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 4: really nice thing to look forward to, because time gives

704
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 4: you that.

705
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, like you did go through a really rough

706
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 3: time last year, Like we talked about this the other day, right,

707
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: and it was I didn't live it, and even hearing

708
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 3: you speak about it.

709
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: I was like, that sounds all forl and so traumatic.

710
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 3: And so what do you think is, well, you know,

711
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 3: there's been circumstantial things that have changed, but like the

712
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 3: fact that you're talking about you're talking about how you

713
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 3: don't have any anxiety and how your life just keeps

714
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,479
Speaker 3: getting better. Like why do you think you've been able

715
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 3: to shift into that perspective? Like what do you think

716
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 3: has changed in the way you see the world or

717
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 3: the way you address your life or focus on your life. Yeah,

718
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 3: that has created shift because I'm sure that a lot

719
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 3: of people are listening to this being like, wow, living

720
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 3: without anxiety, that sounds absolutely blessed.

721
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 4: Well, I also want to acknowledge that a lot of

722
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 4: people you know, have anxiety or depression or any other

723
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 4: kind of yeah mental exactly, that is outside of their control.

724
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 4: And I'm not like, whoo, life is great, just live

725
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 4: on the bright side. But for me, my mum was

726
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 4: diagnosed with cancer last year, and that was heinous. It

727
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 4: was she's she's fine. Now she's a remission, which is great,

728
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 4: but that, yeah, it was. It was heinous. And I

729
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 4: was also going through a breakup at the same time,

730
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 4: so those two and like my first big breakup, so

731
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 4: the two were kind of hitting off each other. But

732
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 4: since you know, healing from both of those things, a

733
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 4: huge perspective shift happened, which was, if I wake up

734
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 4: and circumstantial things I cannot control everything is shit and

735
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 4: I can't control that, then fair enough to feel all

736
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 4: those things. But if I wake up and everything is

737
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 4: okay for the most part in my immediate life, like

738
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 4: obviously the world is a bit cooked, so yeah, you know,

739
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 4: I understand when people can tap into that. But if

740
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 4: I wake up and people my life are alive and

741
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 4: well and healthy at this point, and then I might

742
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 4: as well have the best fucking time and enjoy myself

743
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 4: because it tragedy is coming for all of us. Pain

744
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 4: is coming for all of that. That is inevitable. I

745
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 4: watch it's a really amazing documentary called Stuts, which I told.

746
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 2: You to watch. Oh, the one with Jonah Hill.

747
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 4: Did you watch it?

748
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, he introduces, I need to watch it. Maybe i'll

749
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 2: watch it tonight. You should well.

750
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 4: He says that this therapist says that the three constants

751
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 4: in life is pain, uncertainty, and constant work, which I

752
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 4: really agree with. But if you wake up and your

753
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 4: world is non on fire, try and have the best

754
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 4: fucking day, because your world will be on fire some

755
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 4: day and you cannot control that, and you will not

756
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 4: be able to have the best days. So a huge

757
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 4: thing that just happened when I thought that my mum

758
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 4: was gonna die, and then coming out the other side

759
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 4: of that is going, Okay, great it didn't happen. Well,

760
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 4: I might as well reap all of the joys of life.

761
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 4: Smell the fucking flowers as I walk around, look at dogs,

762
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 4: pat them, go after what I want. Every part of

763
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 4: my life I love, yeah, every part of it. And

764
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 4: I think that all of us should aim for that

765
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 4: if we can, for whatever, just in every single way,

766
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 4: my career, my friends, my home, everything I love.

767
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's almost like this.

768
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say artificial optimism.

769
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 2: I will forced optimism.

770
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 3: But like this attitude of being like, let's see the

771
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 3: brighter side here, and I completely agree with you. Like

772
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 3: one of my friends was saying to me the other

773
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 3: day that her therapist was like, listen, like, your life

774
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 3: is going to be painful.

775
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: There are going to be.

776
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 3: Things that you cannot control, things that are outside of

777
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 3: your comfort zone, external things like illnesses like death, losing

778
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 3: your job, but being able to be like what is

779
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 3: within my realm of control?

780
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: What am I able to actually?

781
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 5: Like?

782
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 3: It's almost like a chess game, right, like you can't

783
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 3: control the other person's moves, but you can control your own.

784
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 4: And also then finding things that give you a sense

785
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 4: of fulfillment or ease or peace in all of it.

786
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 4: The piece is a huge thing for me is in

787
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 4: all of it how to find a sense of inner

788
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 4: peace and acceptance. And when everything was really shit last year,

789
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 4: I was living by the ocean and every single day

790
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 4: I'd wake up, I'd get my coffee, I'd go and

791
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 4: put it on my special rock, and I'd go for

792
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 4: a swim and every time I put my head under

793
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 4: the water and I came up, I felt like a

794
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 4: moment of pure joy and catharsis. And then I'd go

795
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 4: instead of my rock, drink my coffee and just journal.

796
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 4: And always having that every morning as a morning ritual

797
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 4: was so healing and gorgeous, and again another gift to

798
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 4: myself that I could grant myself because in that moment,

799
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 4: I couldn't control the pain I was feeling and everything

800
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 4: that was happening. But I could give myself that morning

801
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 4: every morning, and it put me in a really good place,

802
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 4: and then you know, the day would take its course

803
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 4: and who knows, but I think that if you're in

804
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 4: a space that things are happening and you can't control it,

805
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 4: finding those little rituals that give you some peace is

806
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 4: really important.

807
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 3: I think that's an amazing point to maybe wrap up.

808
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 3: We've had so many conversations pain and beauty, Pain and beauty. Yeah,

809
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 3: we're kind of philosophizing, aren't we. We're just getting into

810
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 3: like very I feel like every time we talk we

811
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 3: have these like the conversations just go into this like entirely,

812
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 3: like we could be teaching a university of course, right

813
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 3: now about hiddenism that stole us, and about the reality

814
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 3: of pain and whatnot.

815
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: But I do want to sincerely thank you for coming on.

816
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 4: I think I want to sincerely thank you for having

817
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 4: me on.

818
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: Oh my god, so much sincerity in one space at

819
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 2: one time.

820
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 3: No, it was an amazing It was an amazing experience.

821
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 3: And I hope that if you've made it this far,

822
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 3: which I hope many of you have.

823
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 2: That you've learned something. You've learned something important.

824
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 3: Maybe you were listening to this as a baby queer

825
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 3: like you were talking about and who better to take

826
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 3: advice from than this amazing person.

827
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 4: But also I take so much, not take so much,

828
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 4: but I learned so much from queer youth as well.

829
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 4: I want to say that, like it's not just like, oh,

830
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 4: the little baby quiers, like they are the future and

831
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 4: they are teaching us everything and they are.

832
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 2: On it honestly, Like I feel like this.

833
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 3: I feel like often when we talk like the narratives

834
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 3: around the queer community or often, like we said, politicize.

835
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 3: So it's like really beautiful that you came on and

836
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 3: we're talking about community and something that I is not

837
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 3: often recognized by people beyond that space and beyond that

838
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 3: identity and beyond that community secret.

839
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 4: It is a.

840
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 2: Beautiful secret and I'm so glad that you shared it

841
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 2: with me. I feel very very privileged and very blessed.

842
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 4: So for listeners, yes, and your listeners, you're in on

843
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 4: the secret as well.

844
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 2: Oh little Secret Circle.

845
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for coming on, and if you did

846
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 3: enjoy this episode, please feel free to leave a five

847
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 3: star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Whatever you're listening right now,

848
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 3: follow us on Instagram at that Psychology podcast if you

849
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 3: want to hear more, I'm sure i'd also tag you therefully.

850
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 3: Oh you know, you know what's going to happen, So

851
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 3: if you want to follow along with their work, I

852
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 3: would really recommend it you can. Maybe you should pin

853
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 3: that post about your solo Italian dates.

854
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 4: I had a pin thing.

855
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: Oh it's incredible. I really I want that to be

856
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: like common.

857
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 4: Knowledge pin things or the Soliday.

858
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:00,359
Speaker 3: Both.

859
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,399
Speaker 2: Okay, the solo dates.

860
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 3: I'll give you a tutorial and thank you again for listening,

861
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 3: and we will see you next week for another episode.