1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Welcome to a show Ridiculous Historians to see what you did. 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: This is what they call the old Ridiculous History bait 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: and switch. It's true. Yes and your no. We've got 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: our super producer, Casey Pegro, and uh, we want to 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: introduce you to a show that we did that we had. 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: We had so much fun doing. It was a lot 7 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: of fun. It's also not that's not our show. But 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: here's the thing, folks, it's it's a little thing called 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: the holiday season, and we really needed a little something 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: to pat out our fee, to give you guys something 11 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: juicy to listen to over the holidays. But make it 12 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: we didn't have to actually record a whole episode of 13 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: our show, Ridiculous History. So we were asked to be 14 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: guests on an episode of a wonderful show called Creature 15 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: feature Um, which is hosted by the wonderfully smart and 16 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: funny Katie Golden. Yes, and we had such a great 17 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: time on this show. We don't want to spoil too 18 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: much of it for you, but we had such a 19 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: great time on this show that at the end of it, 20 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: we uh, irascible scoundrels that we are, said, Hey, Katie, 21 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: is it coal if we publish this episode on our 22 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: feet as well, so that more of our listeners can 23 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: find out about Creature Feature and all the neat, strange 24 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: stuff you dive into. So what is Creature Feature. Well, 25 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: it's this. It's this brand new podcast from How Stuff 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: Works that takes a quote critters I view to explore 27 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: how animal behavior parallels human behavior, and we entered into 28 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: a dark yet paradoxically illuminating exploration of something called the 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: Dark tet trad that's right then, which includes uh, psychopathy, 30 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: narcissistic personality. That's the original dark triad, but there's a 31 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: fourth that is added occasionally, which is good old every 32 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: day say say it is um. That's right, And that 33 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: was actually my favorite entry in the episode, where we 34 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: talk about a particularly nasty parasitic wasp that does horrible, 35 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: horrible things to tarantulas. So check out our appearance on 36 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: Creature Feature. Thanks again, Katie if you're hearing this for 37 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 1: having us over on your show, and if you enjoy 38 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: this exploration of human behavior, please check out the rest 39 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: of the fine episodes of Creature Feature that are available 40 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: today wherever you find your favorite shows. Listen up for 41 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: a guest spot from Katie herself on this show. Yes, 42 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: that's true. Can we roll the tape without further ado? Hey, everybody, 43 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: welcome to Creature Feature, the show where we explore the 44 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: brains of animals and people. You I got brains on 45 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: my shirt. Today we'll be talking about evil killers, kidnappers, murderers, 46 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: and hidden lurkers walking or crawling amongst us. Then we'll 47 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: answer the age old question, who's the most prolific serial 48 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: meouter er? Does evil exist? There's not really an entry 49 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: for evil in the d s M, the Diagnostic and 50 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: Statistical Manual used by psychologists. General attempts to categorize evil 51 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: has resulted in the creation of the dark tetrad, a 52 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: term used for poor personality traits associated with bad behavior, narcissism, sadism, psychopathy, 53 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: and machiavellianism. These are traits that are often attributes of 54 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: people with maladaptive, dangerous personalities. So what does it mean 55 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: to be in the dark tetraad? We all know generally 56 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: the concept of narcissism, sadism, psychopathy, and mackiavellianism, but what 57 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: does that actually look like in humans and even animals. 58 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: Let's take a look at narcissism for example, the d 59 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: s MS definition for clinical levels of narcissism is someone 60 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: who has quote a grandiose sense of self importance and 61 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: shows arrogant how the behaviors or attitudes. I mean, you've 62 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: almost certainly encountered at least a subclinical narcissist, and no 63 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: doubt you could name a few celebrities and politicians who 64 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: fit the bill. But could you find narcissism and animals. 65 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: Many animals seem like narcissists, but even if you point 66 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: the finger at a totally self obsessed animals, say a 67 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: house cat, you could also argue they lack the sense 68 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: of self to be narcissists. Certainly, all Mintance seems to 69 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: care about is herself, but she may not fully comprehend 70 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: that she is a herself, So can she really be 71 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: a narcissist? This is the problem with trying to assign 72 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: human traits to animals. We can't get inside the animal's 73 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: head and know what it's thinking. An act that seems 74 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: sadistic or manipulative may be simply an instinct that allows 75 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: the animal to pass on its genes. It's impossible to 76 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: know what they're really feeling. But hey, this podcast is 77 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: all about the impossible. So we're going to look at 78 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: the animals that best symbolize each of the remaining care 79 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: juristics of the dark ted tread sadism, psychopathy, and Machiavellianism. 80 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: We'll compare these masters of evil with their human counterparts, 81 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: exploring what it means to be a member of the 82 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: Dark ted Tread and whether we can use modern scientific 83 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: imaging to actually quantify what it means to be a psychopath. 84 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: Joining me today on our journey into the dark is 85 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: Ben Bolen and Noel Brown, hosts of the podcast Ridiculous History. 86 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to guys. Thanks for having us. Katie, Yeah, for sure, 87 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: thanks so much. I'm already kind of terrified, um, but 88 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: I'm excited. It's it's a weird feeling. I, for one, 89 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: m and thrilled, darkly thrilled. One of you were you 90 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: were mentioning you have a cat. Would you describe your 91 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: cat as a narcissist? Oh? Sure, I mean he, I 92 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: don't know, it's weird. He's sort of like flits between 93 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: narcissism and outright psychopathy. Like I was saying, he kind 94 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: of leaves me little treats on the front porch where 95 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: it'll be like almost like splayed out, like some kind 96 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: of satanic ritual, will be like the head of a 97 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: squirrel and the body of a rat, and then you know, 98 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: kind of surrounded by like viscera and like the shape 99 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: the pentagram. Sometimes it's really pretty scared. But then he 100 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: snuggles up, you know, like a good little guy. So 101 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of them. I do 102 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: not know what to make of him. I hope, I'm 103 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: hoping I can learn from this podcast today and kind 104 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: of get inside his head a little bit more and 105 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: understand what makes him tick. Yeah. And I mean, even dogs, 106 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: to me are pretty narcissistic because they, like my own dog, 107 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: you associate them with being selfless and loving towards humans. 108 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: But she's a black hole of neediness and desiring affection. 109 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: So no matter how much I pet her, like, I 110 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: feel like if I was dying on the floor, her 111 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: number one priority would be to get another belly robe 112 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: before I pass out. Yeah, and then, as we all 113 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: know too, if we if we died alone in our 114 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: apartments with just our cats are our dogs, they would 115 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: probably instantly start eating us. But that's any animal would 116 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: eventually begin eating you. If it were a pain, I know, 117 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: so was the love real? Ben? That's my question. The 118 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: love is real. But now we're talking about the nature 119 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: of the body versus the mind or the soul, which 120 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: I don't think is quite where we're going with today's Well, 121 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: you did say what is evil is evil real? So 122 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: I'm intrigued. Please let's let's dive right in. There's a 123 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: lot of curiosity around whether animals can be statistic. A 124 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: caterer dolphin who plays with their hef dead pray seems statistic, 125 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: but there's actually practicality behind their cruelty. So take this example. 126 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: Dolphins beat up octopi before eating them, even after they're dead. 127 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: This may seem overkill, as if the dolphins simply can't 128 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: stop their murderous frenzy because they're having too much fun, 129 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: but there's actually a really good reason to play rugby 130 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: with a dead octopus. Octopi don't have centralized nervous systems, 131 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: so after they're dead, their tentacles can still move around. 132 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: If an overeager dolphin gobbles up an octopus who's dead 133 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: but still wriggling, those tentacles can crawl up ats esophage 134 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: us and choke the dolphin to death. This is something 135 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: that's actually been documented before. So the dolphins beat the 136 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: octopied to a pulp before chowing down, preventing the octopi 137 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: from getting its refine from beyond its watery grave. So 138 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: asking whether animals are statistic is a tricky question, I'd 139 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: wager I guess that yes, more intelligent animals like dolphins 140 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: are primates, may have fun rereaking doom and destruction, even 141 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: if there's a good evolutionary reason for it. But instead, 142 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 1: I want to look at how evolution itself can create 143 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: a sadistic monster, void of any emotion at all. To 144 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: do that, we'll have to take a look at tarantula's 145 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: and in this case, the tarantulas are the innocent victims 146 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 1: of a much more terrifying creature. So you, guys, imagine 147 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: being captured by a criminal sadist, being paralyzed by him, 148 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: stuck inside like kill shed totally at his mercy, completely paralyzed, Katie, 149 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: I think about that all the time. It's like you 150 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: know those bad dreams where you you're like trying to 151 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: run away from a bad guy and you can't move 152 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: your stupid body. For sure, It's like this is really 153 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: common recurring dream for me. I'm like trying to run, 154 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: but it just feels like you're stuck in mud, and 155 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: then you you can't move at all, and you try 156 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: to scream but you can't scream. What it's like that 157 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: part of Nightmare on Elm Street where where the where 158 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: she's running up the stairs and she starts sinking the 159 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 1: stairs turned into marshmallows and she just like sinks into it. Oh, 160 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: I hate that, or like or like the bed sinks 161 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: under you. The fear of moving slowly in dreams, of 162 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,839 Speaker 1: trying to run but being unable to is I think 163 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 1: slightly more common than the other spooky one, which is 164 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: the fear of your teeth falling out in your dreams. Yeah. Yeah, 165 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: that's a common one to the body horror, either teeth, skin, 166 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: or hair just falling out. I get those ones too. 167 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: I hate it, like big chunks of skin falling off. 168 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: It's the worst. I have one question when when we 169 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: talk about this, this attack of paralysis, right, do the 170 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,359 Speaker 1: animal victims of this sort of attack do they experience 171 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: fear as we would understand it, you know, I'm not sure. 172 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: I mean, so we're talking about Tarantula's being the victims. 173 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: So they're terrorized by this thing called tarantula hawk. It's 174 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: a sort of wasp, And I imagine if the tarantula 175 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: is capable of feeling anything at all, this is going 176 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: to be the scariest thing that ever happens to it. 177 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: I feel like tarantulas are probably just a little more 178 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: advanced than like a roomba in terms of their ability 179 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: to like sense things. But I feel like there's got 180 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: to be some kind of very primitive wiring that is 181 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: able to at least, you know, gets like some demo 182 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: awareness of being afraid of something so that they can survive. 183 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: Probably no other real cognition beyond that, but other than like, 184 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: oh yeah, probably just like an impending death kind of moment, 185 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: you know, where it's like a funk, it's over, like 186 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: oh oh no, oh no. But the tarantula hawk is it? 187 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: Is it actually a hawk? No? No, it's so it's 188 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: a type of wasp. And if you look into evolutionary biology, 189 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: you'll find that of asshole behavior is by wasps. Uh. So, 190 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: what these tarantula hawks do is they wait outside of 191 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: tarantula's burrow and they pluck at the tarantula's webbing to 192 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: lure the spider out, because the tranchulas create this this 193 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: little sort of dormat of webbing so that when an 194 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: insect crawls across it, they know to pop out and 195 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: capture the prey. But instead of juicy little worm, it's 196 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 1: the transla hawk waiting for them, and it stings the 197 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: tarantula with a paralyzing venom, and so the transula is 198 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: frozen but still completely alive, and the wasp drags the 199 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: trantula back to its burrow, where it places the transula 200 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: snugly inside and then lays a single egg on top 201 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: of it. And I feel like, if you're the tarantula, 202 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: with whatever tarantula consciousness that you have, if you can't 203 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: move and you see someone laying egg on top of you, 204 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: this is the point where you're going like, well, this 205 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: is not going to be cool. Indeed, it's not cool 206 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: for the tarantula. So the hawk, the wasp, buries the 207 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: tarantula alive and tamps down the earth. So it's stuck 208 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: in there, still alive, buried alive, with this little baby 209 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: hatching on top of it. So the wasp larva will 210 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: feed on the live flesh of the tarantula for up 211 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: to a month. That's like the buffalo bill of the 212 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: animal kingdom right there. And this is this is terrifying. 213 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: Why is it? Why? Why is this so adapted to 214 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: do this bizarre thing like that? It seems like such 215 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: a stretch like how, I mean, how how how did 216 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: this creature come up with this idea? I mean, that's 217 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: a silly way of asking it. We'll think about it 218 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: this way, like when you you know, animals, especially like wasps, 219 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: they don't have refrigerators, so they can't keep food fresh 220 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: for their young as it hatches and develops. So by 221 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: burying their larva, they're keeping it safe from predators. But 222 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: you know, if you bury it with some dead prey, 223 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: it can feed off of it for a while, but 224 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: eventually that's going to go bad and it can't eat 225 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: it anymore. But by feeding on something that's alive, it 226 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: will stay fresh. So actually, some species of the tarantula 227 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: hawks will feed on non vital organs first, so that 228 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: the tarantula remains alive longer and that gives it more 229 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: opportunities to feed. Makes sense, makes sense. I have a 230 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: quick question here, Katie. So you know how serial killers 231 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: are often known for their specific m o either in 232 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: the way that they commit murder or in the types 233 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: of victims they choose. Are different species of tarantula hawk? Uh? 234 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: Do they operate in a similar way? Do they only 235 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: prey on specific types of tarantula's or is it any 236 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: hairy arachnet out there is fair game? Yeah? No, they 237 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: they are often very specific in terms of the way 238 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: that they kill and which species of tarantula that they 239 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: go after, because it's such a specified strategy. Um, because 240 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: you need a tarantula that is a burrowing type of 241 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: tarantula um, and so that's not going to be every 242 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: every spider. It's they're very specific. Strategy isn't gonna work. 243 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: So it's picked these cute little I mean to me, 244 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: they're cute, the tarantulas that like hide in their little 245 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: holes and then as soon as a little prey comes by, 246 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, got you. But this time they're the 247 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: ones who are got so Also, it actually gets more 248 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: specific because female tarantulas are the ones that are the killers. 249 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: Males just hang around flowers and try to get laid. 250 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: So the mother actually will select the gender of the 251 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: larva based on how big their victim is if they 252 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: have a big tarantula that they've buried alive, then the 253 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: mother will fertilize the egg, which creates a female, because 254 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: the females are the big, tough serial killers and the 255 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: males are these little, smaller flower drinking dudes. And so 256 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: if the tarantula is small, you know, it's like the 257 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: male doesn't require as much nutrition to develop, so the 258 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: wasp believe the egg unfertilized, and then that creates a 259 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: male baby. And adults are actually non carnivorous, so it's 260 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: just the babies that eat the meat. The adults just 261 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: like to drink flower nectar and then abducted murdered tarantula's 262 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: well yeah that too. It's sort of like have you 263 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: guys seen what is it? Um? What's that movie? It's 264 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: not called? Is it Split? The one with James McAvoy. Yes, yes, 265 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: he has multiple personalities, yeah yeah, and then one like 266 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: he has like the mother personality or he's like I've 267 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: made you a sandwich and like he's stroking her hair 268 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: and stuff. It makes me think of that these like 269 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: wasp that like, oh, I like to drink flower nectar anyways, 270 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: enjoy being paralyzed while my baby eats you. Yeah, So 271 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: how long does it take to kill the tarantela? Like, 272 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: how long does this horrible torture porn go on? It 273 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: can be up to a month, which is crazy to 274 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: me because like that's such a long time to be 275 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: slowly eaten. It's like being in a sarlac pit. It's 276 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: just do they even do they even do them the 277 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 1: kindness of reinjecting them with the paralyzing venom or does 278 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: that eventually just wear off once they're buried and they 279 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: don't even care anymore. I think it will eventually wear off, 280 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: but I think they'll most likely die before it does. 281 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: And also the they're packed in so tight inside the 282 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: dirt they can't move anyways. It's every nightmare combined into one, 283 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: like being paralyzed, being eaten alive, being buried alive, and 284 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: having a baby eating you as the baby part is 285 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: extra creepy. That's to me, that's the kicker. I don't 286 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: know why. Something about the baby eating you from the 287 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: top down is just really really awful because even human 288 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: murderers don't do that. That's one of the big differences 289 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: very special kind of evil. There aren't typically baby murderers 290 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: although there are children who can be murders, but I 291 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: don't think infants have yet the murder. It's a different show. 292 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: So good news you guys. Tarantula hawks are found all 293 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: over the world, including Australia, which duck because Australia is 294 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: just home to every monster. They're also in Africa, Southeast Asia, India, 295 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: and also America. They're even in San Diego, California, which 296 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: is my hometown. So yeah, that's astonishing. Yeah, were you 297 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: able to find any video of this process going down? 298 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: I would love slash. Yeah, I could totally send you 299 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: guys something like that. It's I have seen it. It's 300 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: pretty gnarly because you see this wasp attached itself to 301 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: the tarantula and then there's a scuffle and then the 302 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: tarantulas slowly starts to go very still, and that's when 303 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: the dread sets in. Yeah, it was it was as 304 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: as you were walking us through this process. I was 305 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: watching a video of a child who is watching this 306 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: intense deathmatch and kidnapping, abduction, burial of a tarantula, and 307 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: even the kid seems to I think this is this 308 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: is a little brutal. You can see the tarantula attempt 309 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: to escape as the paralytic agent is kicking in. But 310 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: I was surprised by the size because at least in 311 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: what we're seeing here, the tarantula hawk looks significantly smaller 312 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: than the creature it's attacking. Yeah, and that's why it's 313 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: having the ability to paralyze the tarantula is so important 314 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: because it's using it's smarts. Not really because wasps are done, 315 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: but in evolutionary terms, like this intelligent strategy over the 316 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: brawn of the tarantula, that sting is extremely powerful. So 317 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: there's this entomologist Dr. Justin Schmidt from the Southwestern Biological 318 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: and Institute, and he created a sting pain index and 319 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: he says the Transla hawks sting is quote unsurpassed in 320 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: intensity by any other stinging insect and that a sting 321 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: feels like a lightning bolt struck the spot. The pain 322 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: is beyond imagination. And you want to know why he 323 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: knows this? Did he sting himself? Yep? Oh wow, this 324 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: crazy bastard like just created the sting pain index by 325 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: finding a bunch of insects that sting and then having 326 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: them sting himself and then rating it like, oh yeah, 327 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: that's Yep, that's a tin. How is that guy? Is 328 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: he still alive? I don't want to I don't want 329 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: to sound insensitive. Okay, yeah, I don't think he's killed 330 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: himself with insects stings, just subjected himself to quote unimaginable 331 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: pain from if If what I remember is correct, wasp 332 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,680 Speaker 1: are orious for they're just attacking human beings who happen 333 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: to be around their general vicinity. Are tarantula hawks that 334 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: way too? Or do they have to be you know, 335 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: provoked or prodded? They have to be provoked. So the 336 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: silver lining is they're actually pretty non aggressive towards anything 337 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: except for obviously tarantulas. But I mean, if you get 338 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: one caught like in your sweater, it'll probably sting you 339 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: out of a fear response. But yeah, they don't go 340 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 1: around trying to attack people, which think christ because that 341 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: would be terrible. But if you're a tarantula, you know, 342 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: not not such good luck. Wow, And they're so widespread. Yeah, 343 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: so I guess then one of the big questions keep 344 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: I keep going back to, is is this evil? Because 345 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 1: it sounds like this is while it's horrific for the tarantula, 346 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: the victim, the incubator. It seems like it's the only 347 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: way for these uh, these creatures to reproduce. Is that correct? 348 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: Like there's no alternative, right, and so this is like 349 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 1: this is the key question is now. I don't think 350 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: a wasp is capable of being evil in the sense 351 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: that we kind of define it because they're so simple. 352 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: They're basically like robots. So it's like you wouldn't necessarily 353 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: describe a virus as being evil because it's so simple, 354 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: and even the wasps are a great deal more complex 355 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: than virus. I don't think they can have like the 356 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: intent or the awareness to be evil. But when you 357 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: look at it, like you kind of take a step 358 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: back and look at it from like an evolutionary perspective, 359 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: where it's sort of more of this emergent intelligence from 360 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: millions of years of evolution, I mean, maybe you can 361 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: define that as evil. You know, I'm not talking about 362 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 1: like intelligent design or some god controlling evolution is talking 363 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: about like, you know, you have this sort of like 364 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: guiding force of evolution that is its own sort of 365 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: like I mean, it is it is a form of 366 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: intelligence where it's like you have to really zoom out 367 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: to see it. Where it's just millions and millions of 368 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: years of these small changes resulting in something that's so 369 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: so messed up. And maybe that's like a natural form 370 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: of evil. I don't know. I guess that's a very 371 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: philosophical question. Well, I think it is. But it's also 372 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: interesting because so much of psychopathy is almost like reptilian 373 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: type behavior, or like non feeling, non empathetic type behavior, 374 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: which is the kind of things that an insect like 375 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: this would do, Like there's no feeling about it. It's just, 376 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, I must feed, I must feed my baby, 377 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: and this is how I'm going to go about doing it. 378 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: It's very callous, for lack of a better term, you know, 379 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: But you're right, there's no cognition involved. It's just the 380 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: thing that makes sense and that it's adapted perfectly to do. 381 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: But I think we ascribe those kind of things to 382 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: psychopaths as well, right, because I think with a human 383 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: were like you should be capable of empathy. But then 384 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: it it's a really uncomfortable question because it's a little 385 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: more clear when you're looking at a wasp that okay, 386 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: of course it doesn't understand what it's doing, but you 387 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: could also make that argument for humans who can't feel empathy, 388 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: like they may truly not understand the gravity of what 389 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: they're doing. And then is that sort of like the 390 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: wasp where you can't really blame them, or is there 391 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: something else going on with people where it's like, well 392 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: you should be smart enough to figure out, like does 393 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: there even need to be like an intentionality behind evil, 394 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: because like if it's defined as something where it's like 395 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: you're incapable of feeling mercy or empathy, then maybe just 396 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,360 Speaker 1: like evil doesn't need to be like intentionally evil, it's 397 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: just a force that does have empathy and then causes harm. 398 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: So then we would be defining evil as not the 399 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: addition of something nefarious or insidious, but the absence of 400 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: an alternative, long term evolutionary strategy, because that's what empathy 401 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: ultimately functions as, right right, right, Yeah, that's really interesting. 402 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: It's like we have because there are some animals who 403 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: have evolved a survival strategy that could be seen as 404 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: like good. So like bees are so social and help 405 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: each other, so you know a lot of these youth 406 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: social animals, so like bees and ants and even naked molerets, 407 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: they all seem to team up and pitch in and 408 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: help each other and care about each other um as 409 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: much as like a bee can. But it does seem 410 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: like a kinder sort of animal in general than a wasp, 411 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: even though if you take a bee and a wasp individually, 412 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: they don't really I don't think they can feel kindness, 413 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: but you look at the whole the group of them, 414 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: like a bee colony does seem to have empathy for 415 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: it's like each other in a weird way. So what 416 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: would a tarantula hawk be in terms of the Dark 417 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: Triad or Dark tetrad? Would they would they qualify as 418 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: a sadist? Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, Like these very 419 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: sadistic because like to keep something alive for up to 420 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: a month and then slowly feed on it. It's just 421 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: so it seems so unnecessarily cruel, even though as we've 422 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: talked about it, there is a reason for it. Yeah, 423 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 1: I think that checks out. As we've just discussed in 424 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: the Animal Kingdom, some of the most terrifying examples of 425 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: sadism are due to reproductive needs in humans. Some of 426 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: the most dangerous people are those who somehow link sexuality 427 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: to sadism. This is called a paraphilia. It's a form 428 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: of sexuality that is atypical or pathological. Now a huge 429 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 1: disclaimer here, I'm not talking about the b D s 430 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: M community. People who engage in b D s M 431 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: are very different from those with sexual sadism disorder, the 432 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: key thing being consent in healthy communication. For bed SIM practitioners, 433 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: consent is extremely important. They may find sadistic acts or 434 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: masochistic acts to be sexually arousing, but not unless their 435 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: partner is equally interested. That's why safe words, set in 436 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: clear boundaries and a lot of discussion is often present 437 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 1: in these communities. And it's also why psychologists don't consider 438 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: b D s M to be a disorder. They aren't 439 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: causing harm to themselves or others well, I mean psychologically speaking, 440 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 1: But sexual sadism disorder is different. People with this disorder 441 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: are aroused by the suffering of others, and the disorder 442 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: is either harmful to the individual whom find it disturbing 443 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: or upsetting, or to others in the case of sex 444 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: offenders who seek out non consent and victims. What I 445 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: find interesting is the difference between people with sexual sadian 446 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: disorder who choose not to act on it and those 447 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: who do, meaning that there are some who either have 448 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: empathy or at least a fear of consequences while still 449 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: feeling these sadistic urges. I had a clinical psychology professor 450 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: who put it this way. The explosive combination is having 451 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: both a sadistic paraphilia and a clinical lack of empathy. 452 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: Those are the ingredients to make most types of serial killers. 453 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: So after a quick break, that will bring us to 454 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: our next member of the dark tetrad, the psychopath. So 455 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: how do you spot a psychopath by the cold look 456 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: of cruel and difference in their glassy eyes, the pile 457 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: of bodies in their basements? Well, what about with technology? 458 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: Psychologists have attempted to quantify psychopathy using brain imaging, which 459 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: leads us to one of the most interesting stories in 460 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: brain research. James Fallon is a neuroscientist who was interested 461 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: in looking at the anatomical characteristics found in the brains 462 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: of serial killers. He found a pattern of abnormalities and 463 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: the PET scans of these killers showing structural aberrations in 464 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: the orbital cortex, the prefrontal cortex, the ventral anterior singulate, 465 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: and the amygdala. As he was shuffling through piles of 466 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: brain scans on his desk. He was looking through a 467 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: file on his family's brain scans taken for another study 468 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: on Alzheimer's. One of the scans had the clear structural 469 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: abnormalities consistent with psychopathy. Curious as to who and his 470 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: family was the psychopath, he looked up the name and 471 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: was surprised to find it was his own brain scan. Obviously, 472 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: he wasn't a violent killer, so first he wondered if 473 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: all his research about the psychopathic brain was just wrong. 474 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: But when he took genetic tests, he found that he 475 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: also had alleles associated with people high at risk for 476 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: exhibiting violent behavior. He did some introspection and decided, instead 477 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: of it being a fluke, he may very well have 478 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: a psychopathic brain. But due to his loving upbringing with 479 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: parents and siblings who were devoted to him, he suspects 480 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: he was able to avoid the more frightening violent traits 481 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: of the psychopath. But when nature is left to her 482 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: own devices, what kinds of deadly killers does she concoct? 483 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: The deadliest serial killers are often harmless looking. They blend 484 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: right in allowing them to continue their killing while raising 485 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: no alarms. As we'll find out. This is true both 486 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: in human society and the animal kingdom. So speaking of psychopaths, 487 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: let's talk about cats. Uh So, guys, which wildcat would 488 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: you guess is the most prolific serial killers of them all? Uh? 489 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: Wildcats specifically, Let's see, it's probably it's probably smaller than 490 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: one would imagine because naturally people would think something large, 491 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: like a tiger or maybe a lion. But I'm going 492 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: to go with something smaller, maybe a bobcat or a wildcat. 493 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: That's a really intelligent guess. Yeah, because like you have 494 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: these huge predator cats, so like lions seem really formidable. 495 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: I mean, they have a thousand p s i of 496 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: force for their jaw strength, so just for comparison, we 497 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: only have about two p s i. So they're so powerful. 498 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: And you know, there's also like the more sleek ones 499 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: like cheetahs who can run up to seventy five miles 500 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: an hour and jaguars who are super like buff and 501 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: can carry cadavers up a tree. But you're right that 502 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: even those guys are really terrifying, they're not the most 503 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: prolific se real killers, and we do have to get smaller. 504 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: In fact, our most prolific serial killer kitty is one 505 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: of the smallest species of cats in the world, and 506 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: that includes domestic cats, so they're smaller than your household kitty. 507 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: It's this really adorable cat. It's called the black footed cat. 508 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: They're about three times smaller than your pet house cat, 509 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,239 Speaker 1: and they weigh in about two to four pounds, so 510 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: females are around two pounds, males can get up to 511 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: around four pounds, and they have a sixty kill success rate, 512 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: which if you've ever seen a nature documentary and you 513 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: see how many times a lioness will have a goof 514 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: up and not be able to catch its prey, six 515 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:51,239 Speaker 1: is incredible. So they actually look a lot like a 516 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: house cat, but just like kind of shrunken down. They 517 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: have big eyes and their tan with dark brown spots 518 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: and striations. And they're called black footed because their little 519 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: feets are black. And uh they're also called ant hill 520 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: tigers because when they're cornered, they'll like, they'll mess you up, 521 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: they'll cut you. They're very aggressive. You know, I'm looking 522 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: at I'm looking into a picture of one right now, 523 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: and I gotta say these cats are adorable. They look 524 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: even better than my two cats, my two cats are 525 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,959 Speaker 1: just you know, cat models. Basically they have that like 526 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: baby schema. The because they have the big eyes and 527 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: the big foreheads and they're they're really tiny and just 528 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: super super cute. You would not think these are a 529 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: big threat. So what kind of what kind of stuff 530 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: do they hunt? Well, their prey can be pretty small, 531 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: so rodents, birds, pretty much anything that moves and they 532 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: can fit in their mouths though, so they'll do insects, lizards, birds, 533 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: and small rodents are their favorite. They're mostly nocturnal. They'll 534 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: walk twenty miles a night, so that's the furthest that 535 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: a small wildcat will walk. And I did a little 536 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: math and if you scale that up to um human size, 537 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: that's like walking a thousand miles at night, which you know, 538 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,919 Speaker 1: it's like it's like the Proclaimer's song, like I will 539 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: walk five hundred miles. So that does that mean? These 540 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: little sweet babies hunt for sport just like for kicks? 541 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: Like why why is such a high kill rate versus 542 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: lions who to me seem like they hunt more practically 543 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: and functionally to you know, feed. No, they I mean 544 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: they just have a rapid metabolism and they for the 545 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: food that they can't eat on the spot. They store 546 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: in their burrows, so it's not for fun. It's definitely 547 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 1: for nutrition. And these smaller animals will actually have a 548 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 1: pretty large nutritional demand because they can't bulk up a 549 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: lot of calories and then just like sleep it off. 550 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: They have to be constantly eating. And to be clear, 551 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about the most prolific successful serial killers, not 552 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: just the most attempts, is that correct. I mean they 553 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: actually rack up a pretty high kill count, so I 554 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: would say they are of the big cats. They kill 555 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: the most per day, so they can take down around 556 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: fifteen prey items a night, which is a lot, and 557 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 1: that includes like birds. So if you there's a really 558 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: cool video I can show you guys, and I'll put 559 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: that up on our Twitter where it just like jumps 560 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: up and catches a bird midair and it's got it 561 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 1: like jammed in its mouth and it looks very pleased 562 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,439 Speaker 1: with itself. Um, but yeah, that's like about a kill 563 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: an hour, So that's I mean, these are small prey items, 564 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: but you know, you scale that down to the size 565 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: of the cow, which is like two pounds of like 566 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: pure murderous rage, and that's like, you know, it's like 567 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: taking if a lion could take down a small gazelle 568 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: like every hour. So they also do it's so cute. 569 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,879 Speaker 1: They do the little but wiggle, you know that thing 570 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: like when your cat is getting ready to pounce, and 571 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,359 Speaker 1: it's like there's a little swigty swooty with its butt 572 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: like Simba and the lion King sometimes too. Yeah, yeah, 573 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,320 Speaker 1: they do that. They do the little little but wiggle, 574 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: and so that's actually not just to look cute. It 575 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: helps aligne their feet under them so they can pounce 576 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: with maximum precision and power like a spring. And sometimes 577 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: they do take down bigger prey though, so they rarely 578 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,720 Speaker 1: but sometimes kill cape hairs, which way more than them. 579 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: They are these relatively larger rabbits. So it's just kind 580 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: of funny because they they're just like so amped up 581 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: on being murderous they don't even think that, oh maybe 582 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: this but I can't even carry it because it weighs 583 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 1: like twice of me. So is this where the is 584 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 1: this where the psychopathy aspect comes in? Yeah, because it's 585 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,800 Speaker 1: like I feel like they're desire to kill these bigger 586 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: prey items. Is it's like, clearly you're not going to 587 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: eat that it's too big. I mean, maybe you know, 588 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: they do save it for later, but it's kind of funny. 589 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: I don't even know if they could fit a cape 590 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: hair in their din. So it's just killing stuff because 591 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: they are driven to kill. I mean, we've all been there. 592 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: But that's what my housecat does. That is what my 593 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: indoor outdoor, sweet snuggly housecat does. But he's not hungry. 594 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 1: Betty doesn't have it. Betty doesn't have a six kill 595 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: rate though, No, absolutely not. But it's like he is 596 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: clearly toying with these creatures and you know, just like 597 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 1: leaving them in the most twisted arrays I've ever seen 598 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: in my life. Like it's it's like the it haunts 599 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 1: my my dreams. It's bizarre that I guess that's why 600 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: I was asking earlier, like does this creature hunt kind 601 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: of for sport? So I guess some of that does 602 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: enter into it. If it's not, it's not even thinking 603 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: about the fact that it can't actually carry it, you know, 604 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: the kill away. It just needs to feed the urge, 605 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: right right, And well, I mean it's really interesting because 606 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: with house cats, obviously they don't need to kill anything 607 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 1: at all because they're getting fed their little kilbls and bits. 608 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: But I think they have a desire to hunt, so 609 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: they're driven to hunt by this, and it is a 610 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: survival instinct to hunt, because you can imagine if a 611 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: cat didn't have that and just waited around for kibble, 612 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: if it lived in the wild, it would be done 613 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: an evolutionary dead end. But yeah, I mean it's we 614 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: can't talk to a cat and say like, hey, do 615 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: you really enjoy doing this? But my guess would be 616 00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: that they do get satisfaction from it. And even though 617 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,359 Speaker 1: it is an evolutionary strategy and even playing with their 618 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: prey has practical reasons like making sure it's dead and 619 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: also honing their skills, I mean, they seem to love 620 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: doing it, and that is kind of psychopathic, isn't it. Yeah, 621 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: that's a good point, especially when we consider not just cats, 622 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: but a lot of similar mammals. Their juvenile phase is 623 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: spent playing, and playing is really just a less fatal 624 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: version of the hunting that they will instinctively practice later 625 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: in life. And I can absolutely see from a neurological perspective, 626 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 1: I can absolutely see an animal as evolved as a 627 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,319 Speaker 1: cat or my cats enjoying that kind of thing. It's 628 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: it's scratching an itch your body and your brain will 629 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,880 Speaker 1: tell you it's a pleasurable and correct thing to do, 630 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,240 Speaker 1: right right. I mean, like, we do have video games 631 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 1: where we like to kill stuff. So it makes me 632 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: wonder if we might have something like that deep inside us, 633 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: where we kind of, you know, maybe have that killing 634 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,320 Speaker 1: instinct that's just been over many, many hundreds of thousands 635 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 1: of the years of cultural and societal evolution has been 636 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 1: sort of put inside a little box and um locked away, 637 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: except in the cases of serial killers. Right well, in 638 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: the defense of my cats, Dr Bankman and Mr Jackpott 639 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: have to shout him out here. Yeah, and it's the 640 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: real names. In defense of my cats, they have at 641 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 1: the very least never paralyzed someone buried them alive and 642 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: put a kitten inside of their bodies to a But 643 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: when that cute, like would a kitten bursting out of 644 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: a tarantula be cute or horrible? I can't know. I'm 645 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: on the fence. I'm honestly on the fence, because if 646 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: that was backwards, like a tranchula bursting out of a kitten, 647 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: that would obviously be horrible. But when you do it inverse, 648 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,840 Speaker 1: it's kind of cute. I mean, I still feel bad 649 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: for the tarantula, but you know, hey, it's a kid, sure, 650 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: so it's it's it's pretty crazy. You mentioned fallon the neuroscientist. 651 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,479 Speaker 1: He's actually in this show that I'm working on called 652 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: Happy Face. It's like a true crime show about the 653 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: Happy Face killer, and it's about this guy's daughter and 654 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: in the show, she goes and gets analyzed by this 655 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: guy to try to figure out whether she herself has 656 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,879 Speaker 1: inherited her father's psychopathic tendencies. And it's really interesting because 657 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,279 Speaker 1: it's like there's a lot of discussion around it, whether 658 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,240 Speaker 1: it's like is it all nature, is it all nurture? 659 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: Is it a combination of the two. Can you really 660 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: figure out just from someone's brain scan whether or not 661 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: this is true. It seems like a very kind of 662 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 1: like surfacing way of of of figuring that stuff out 663 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,839 Speaker 1: because it's a combination of a lot of factors. But 664 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: he actually talks a lot about psychopathy in the animal 665 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,760 Speaker 1: kingdom too, and how it's actually can be a positive trait, like, um, 666 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,879 Speaker 1: you know, animals that are psychopaths will kind of they'll 667 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,720 Speaker 1: go places that other animals won't and they will actually 668 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: breed more successfully and things like that. Um, it's I'm 669 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:13,279 Speaker 1: not explaining it super well, but it's yeah, because like psychopaths, 670 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: one of their characteristics is risk taking and not having 671 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: a fear of the consequences. So in some cases that 672 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: could obviously be very bad, but for some animals that 673 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: will bring you a reward. If you are bolder and 674 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: take a risk and try something novel, that lack of 675 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: fear will actually give you a leg up over your competition. 676 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: That is exactly what he was talking about, you know, 677 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: so long as they survive to reproduce, that's that's that's 678 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: the Vegas odds part. Yeah, that's that's really interesting. I've 679 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:55,239 Speaker 1: actually listened to some of that podcast. It's so I 680 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: think that is it's such a personal perspective on the 681 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 1: nature versus nurture because she's I mean, from my perspective, 682 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: she's obviously a very empathetic person to be so worried 683 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: about that part of her nature, but I can totally 684 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 1: imagine how that would be that you're wondering, like, well, 685 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: any any behavior you feel where it's like maybe you 686 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: know you have Sean Freud at sometime, or you feel angry. 687 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: You wonder like, well, is that me or is that 688 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 1: like these genes inside me puppeting me? Yeah, and you 689 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:29,959 Speaker 1: might not have made it far enough in the series. 690 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil anything, but it does come 691 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 1: into play, like the way she's dealt with relationships and 692 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 1: kind of her emotional kind of closed offness, and that's 693 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: a big part of it, and wondering if she can 694 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: actually feel things the way quote unquote normal people can. 695 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: So it's something that really like haunts her and bothers her. 696 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 1: And at the end of the series she kind of 697 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: figures out, you know, at least as far as this 698 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:57,359 Speaker 1: guy is concerned, what she is. Yeah. The story of 699 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: the most prolific serial killer in human history is one 700 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 1: that's more tragic than gruesome. Harold Friedrich Shipman was a bespectacled, 701 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: bearded man, very ordinary and meek looking. He was a doctor, 702 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,799 Speaker 1: married and had four children. Not someone whom you would 703 00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,279 Speaker 1: peg as a cold blooded killer, but he killed two 704 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,720 Speaker 1: hundred and eighteen people, committing crimes undetected for twenty three years. 705 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 1: Shipman was a g P who had his own practice 706 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,439 Speaker 1: near Manchester, England. He targeted the most vulnerable people as 707 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 1: his victims his own geriatric patients. Most of his victims 708 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,480 Speaker 1: were the elderly women in his care to whom he 709 00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 1: gave lethal doses of morphine. He had a typical pattern. 710 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: He would give his victims a lethal dose of diamorphine, 711 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,280 Speaker 1: signed their death certificates, and then alter their medical records 712 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,400 Speaker 1: to falsely indicate that their health had been in decline. 713 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: Shipman was an outlier even amongst serial killers, as there 714 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: was no clear motive for the crime, except in one case, 715 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 1: he altered his victims will to make himself the beneficiary 716 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 1: of three hundred and eighty six thousand pounds, something the 717 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,839 Speaker 1: victim's daughter found to be awfully suspicious. So why did 718 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,360 Speaker 1: he kill It's hard to know for certain. As a teenager, 719 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: he witnessed his mother received morphine for a terminal cancer 720 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: until she died of the disease. Some of the psychiatrists 721 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,359 Speaker 1: who have looked at his case speculate that he had 722 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: a deep seated need to control other people, something influenced 723 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,360 Speaker 1: but certainly not caused in total by his mother's death. 724 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,480 Speaker 1: Another possibility psychiatrists have proposed is that he felt a 725 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: sense of relief from stress or pressure by killing his 726 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 1: patients as he considered them a nuisance. This is the 727 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 1: heart of what a psychopath is. Coldly, flippantly cruel. We 728 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,200 Speaker 1: need a minute to clean our brains with images of 729 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 1: cute cats. Wait, is that a blackfooted cat? And is 730 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: that a baby burden in its mouth? Oh no, We'll 731 00:45:55,200 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: be right back. Machiavellianism through the scope of psychology is 732 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 1: defined as a duplicitous manipulation with a disregard for morality, 733 00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:15,760 Speaker 1: putting personal gain before any feelings of empathy. Think Little 734 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 1: Finger from Game of Thrones, someone behind the scenes manipulating 735 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: and pulling strings, causing destruction for others or their own gain. 736 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:31,320 Speaker 1: But fortunately Machiavellians can only manipulate, not mind control their victims. However, 737 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: the natural world is not so merciful. We're going to 738 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,319 Speaker 1: discuss a machia Vilian animal that is literally pulling the 739 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:43,920 Speaker 1: strings using real life mind control. So mind control and 740 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,239 Speaker 1: hypnosis is often explored in popular culture. From the Manchurian 741 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,759 Speaker 1: Candidate to Jessica Jones were fascinated by the idea of 742 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,960 Speaker 1: thought control. So you know the Purple Man and Jessica Jones. 743 00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: It's such a creepy Villian doctor who of a tenant. Yeah, 744 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,920 Speaker 1: he's so lovable and doctor who. But then his and 745 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,160 Speaker 1: he's just I think so he's got he's got a 746 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 1: good range. Din't trust him, You don't trust him his 747 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,279 Speaker 1: doctor who? Was it? After watching Jessica Jones? Do you 748 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,319 Speaker 1: stop trusting him? Doctor? No? No, I just don't. I 749 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,719 Speaker 1: don't trust his mouth? Is it because he has a 750 00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:20,799 Speaker 1: bunch of hearts. He's got like ten hearts or something? 751 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, the the Purple Man for background for Jessica 752 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:33,400 Speaker 1: Jones amidst pheromones that force people to obey his suggestions, 753 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:38,279 Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, it's like he issues a command and 754 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 1: then the person has to do it because it's some 755 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,279 Speaker 1: kind of medic clorians or whatever. I haven't watched the 756 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,759 Speaker 1: whole show, so I'm not sure, but yeah, that's It's 757 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 1: so creepy to me because like like one of the 758 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:56,000 Speaker 1: worst possible sci fi horse scenarios where a serial killer 759 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,120 Speaker 1: mind controls you into digging your own grave or just 760 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:04,160 Speaker 1: following him into his like kill basement. But I have 761 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,840 Speaker 1: bad news for spiders again. This is a very spider 762 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 1: unfriendly podcast. Orb Weaver spiders are spend these really neat 763 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,360 Speaker 1: precise webs they're they're actually very beautiful. The webs the 764 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,560 Speaker 1: spiders are. I mean, I think they're cool, but people 765 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,759 Speaker 1: have hang ups about spiders for some reason. Um So, 766 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:31,960 Speaker 1: now wasps again come into the picture and just are 767 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:38,000 Speaker 1: so mean and are such assholes. So female parasitic wasps 768 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,120 Speaker 1: lay an egg onto the orb weaver's abdomen, and if 769 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:44,680 Speaker 1: you've been listening, you know, once a wasp lays an 770 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:48,399 Speaker 1: egg on you, you're in for a bad time. So 771 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:53,280 Speaker 1: the orb weaver is still alive, and the spider becomes 772 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:58,200 Speaker 1: mind controlled by the wasp larva, and instead of spinning 773 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 1: its beautiful lace like web, it dismantles its web and 774 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,759 Speaker 1: creates a cocoon for the parasitic larva to live in. 775 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 1: And then, because wasps again there are such huge assholes, 776 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,200 Speaker 1: the larva will suck on the spiders juices until the 777 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: spider dies. And then the larva just checks its carcass 778 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,319 Speaker 1: away like a soda can, and it makes itself nice 779 00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,560 Speaker 1: and cozy in the cocoon that the spider had woven 780 00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,160 Speaker 1: for it against its will. It's so crazy to me 781 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:37,360 Speaker 1: that you can have such a precise method of mind 782 00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:42,120 Speaker 1: control that the larva not only gets to eat its victim, 783 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,080 Speaker 1: but makes it spin a little cradle for for it 784 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,520 Speaker 1: as it develops and so it can stay safe. It's 785 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:53,440 Speaker 1: just so creepy. So it's slave labor at that point too, right, 786 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:59,440 Speaker 1: a slave that you eat later. Yeah? Yeah, So we 787 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:04,920 Speaker 1: h are these wasps as common as the tarantula hawk um, 788 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,120 Speaker 1: they aren't as widely distributed, So the ones that we're 789 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,920 Speaker 1: going to be talking about are found in Japan. So 790 00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,800 Speaker 1: researchers in Japan wanted to look into this behavior because 791 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:23,560 Speaker 1: it's so crazy how precise that mind control is. And 792 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: they found that the cocoon that the zombie spider weaves 793 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,800 Speaker 1: for its parasite is very similar to the molten stage 794 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:38,000 Speaker 1: web that the spider, a healthy spider, will weave for itself. 795 00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: It's a protective cocoon designed to keep the spider safe 796 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:47,080 Speaker 1: while it molts it's exoskeleton, and it's actually made out 797 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:52,120 Speaker 1: of this special ultra violet spider silk so that birds 798 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,960 Speaker 1: and flying insects will avoid crashing into it. So like normally, 799 00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,799 Speaker 1: when a spider builds its web, it wants insects to 800 00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,799 Speaker 1: run into it so that you can eat them. But 801 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,560 Speaker 1: if you're in all naked and exposed and don't want 802 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,239 Speaker 1: something to kill you, you wrap yourself up in like 803 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,680 Speaker 1: this neon light of like warning naked spider in here. 804 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:17,879 Speaker 1: So researchers found that there was higher levels of this 805 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:23,720 Speaker 1: substance that's called twenty h ectosoone, and it's the same 806 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:30,640 Speaker 1: hormone that controls molting. So in the zombified spiders, they 807 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,919 Speaker 1: are being mind controlled into thinking that they're going through 808 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 1: their molting stage. It's unknown how the wasp is actually 809 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:44,319 Speaker 1: manipulating this hormone. But it's not just mind controlling it 810 00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,560 Speaker 1: into thinking it's molting. It's actually a step above that 811 00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:51,719 Speaker 1: because it's somehow commanding it to go into this like 812 00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:56,880 Speaker 1: super molting mode where it's building an extra strong cocoon, 813 00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,840 Speaker 1: more reinforced with greater tensile strength than the spider's normal 814 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:06,560 Speaker 1: molten cocoon. So it's like it's beyond just like thinking 815 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:11,400 Speaker 1: it's molting. It's creating a mega safety bunker for the 816 00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:15,160 Speaker 1: parasite that's planning on murdering it. So way, wait, so 817 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:22,239 Speaker 1: the downside is that you are being mind controlled and 818 00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:26,280 Speaker 1: then you're going to die, But the upside is that 819 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,360 Speaker 1: you get super strength. I guess the the equivalent of 820 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:35,160 Speaker 1: spider superpowers. Well, your your webbing does. So you're creating 821 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:40,400 Speaker 1: um spider silk that has is extra reinforced because the 822 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,640 Speaker 1: molten spider silk, like a in a healthy orb beaver, 823 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,720 Speaker 1: that's creating a cocoon for itself to molten side that 824 00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,440 Speaker 1: that webbing will be reinforced and stronger to protect it. 825 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:56,000 Speaker 1: But for the parasite, it's like it's bringing out the 826 00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,760 Speaker 1: good stuff. It's bringing out the big guns, the big 827 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,920 Speaker 1: webbing guns, and creating really really strong webbing to protect 828 00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,600 Speaker 1: the parasite. So, I mean, I would think it's not 829 00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,319 Speaker 1: necessarily clear in the research yet, but I would think 830 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:16,160 Speaker 1: that somehow it's just being flooded with these hormones and 831 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,800 Speaker 1: make like this extra strong signal for it to produce 832 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,760 Speaker 1: the molting webbing in a way that's like it's over 833 00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:28,360 Speaker 1: signaling so that the parasite benefits from the super strong cocoon. 834 00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:34,000 Speaker 1: So this is what's called an ectoparasitoid. It's a parasite 835 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:38,480 Speaker 1: who will live externally on its host and eventually kill it. 836 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:43,680 Speaker 1: But some parasitic wasps will lay their eggs directly inside 837 00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,600 Speaker 1: the spider and then the larvae eat their way out 838 00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:51,400 Speaker 1: of the spider like an alien chest burster. It's really disgusting. 839 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,239 Speaker 1: And just for a safety check here, there are no 840 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,640 Speaker 1: wasps that do this to people, right nose. They're none 841 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:03,360 Speaker 1: big enough to do it yet. Okay, not yet, not 842 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,200 Speaker 1: that we know of. Whenever, whenever I think about this 843 00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:11,040 Speaker 1: para parasitic stuff doing things to animals to make them 844 00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,360 Speaker 1: act against their own self interest, I always think of 845 00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:19,640 Speaker 1: that parasitic fungus like erupts out of ants heads before right, yeah, 846 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:22,160 Speaker 1: before it does that, doesn't it also do some kind 847 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,040 Speaker 1: of crazy mind control that makes them do something that 848 00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:31,360 Speaker 1: like benefits the fungus itself. But yeah, crawls up a 849 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,040 Speaker 1: stock like a plant stock, and then it's final. The 850 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:39,279 Speaker 1: ants final act is to cling onto the stock with 851 00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:44,320 Speaker 1: its mandibles, so it it's brain is being so manipulated 852 00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:48,160 Speaker 1: by the fungus that it's like clinging onto the stock 853 00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,680 Speaker 1: with its mandibles. And then that's really good for the fungus, says, 854 00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,120 Speaker 1: it grows out of its head and then produces spores 855 00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,760 Speaker 1: because it's got a solid anchor down onto the onto 856 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,080 Speaker 1: the plant or the branch. You know. One that while 857 00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,839 Speaker 1: we're speaking of parasites, one that worries me as a 858 00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:09,920 Speaker 1: cat owner. Is toxoplasma gandhi. Yeah, we all probably have that, 859 00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,920 Speaker 1: Like that's why we're nice to cats. I don't know, 860 00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:16,640 Speaker 1: sing So, yeah, you probably if you clean up the 861 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,880 Speaker 1: cats litter box and you don't obsessively wash your hands 862 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,879 Speaker 1: every single time, you might have it. And I mean 863 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,480 Speaker 1: there's actually pretty good chance, like if you've owned cats 864 00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,560 Speaker 1: over a long period of time. It's generally not a 865 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,480 Speaker 1: problem for humans unless you're pregnant, in which it can 866 00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:36,399 Speaker 1: cause birth defects or miscarriage. And the other thing it's 867 00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:41,839 Speaker 1: been linked to is potentially triggering schizophrenia. That's a very 868 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,680 Speaker 1: very rare almost just like it's not going to happen 869 00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:50,239 Speaker 1: to you, but it is a documented effect, so they 870 00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:55,160 Speaker 1: can a cat can literally cause schizophrenia in a person 871 00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:00,400 Speaker 1: via the T gandhi. I M so, I think we 872 00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,440 Speaker 1: need to talk more about how spiders are terribly mistreated 873 00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:11,160 Speaker 1: in nature. Uh So, there's another mind controlling machiavellian manipulator 874 00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:16,400 Speaker 1: called the spider fly, and it's a fly that injects 875 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:20,800 Speaker 1: itself into the spider's abdomen, lodging itself near the lung. 876 00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:25,279 Speaker 1: And here's the crazy thing. It can remain there for 877 00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:30,440 Speaker 1: years while it completes its development. So once it's finally 878 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,880 Speaker 1: ready to molt and emerge from the spider, it controls 879 00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:39,040 Speaker 1: the spider into spinning a protective cocoon, just like we 880 00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:42,160 Speaker 1: were talking about with the orb weavers. Then it eats 881 00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:47,040 Speaker 1: the spider from the inside out, which is just the worst, 882 00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,560 Speaker 1: but at least these ones are kind of cute and fuzzy, 883 00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:56,759 Speaker 1: so unlike the wasps the spider fly, they're sort of 884 00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:01,920 Speaker 1: like these little bumbling Cuti's uh entomologous f R Cold 885 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:06,040 Speaker 1: describes them as having a floating sort of flight, rather 886 00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,600 Speaker 1: undulating and uncertain. It has the habit of buzzing around 887 00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,440 Speaker 1: and circles when it falls over on its back on 888 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,880 Speaker 1: a smooth surface, often doing this for some time before 889 00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,320 Speaker 1: it can regain its feet. Most of the time it 890 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,880 Speaker 1: is making a high, thin humming sound, so it's just 891 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:27,080 Speaker 1: like it's this dopey, kind of like dorky little fly. 892 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:31,160 Speaker 1: But then it's really horrifying and living inside a spider 893 00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:35,120 Speaker 1: for years before killing it. And this isn't like a 894 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:39,040 Speaker 1: marsupial situation, you know how like a joey can enter 895 00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:41,920 Speaker 1: an exit the pouch of the parent. It's more like 896 00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,520 Speaker 1: a chest burster, like I can't fly back in and out. 897 00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,000 Speaker 1: It's a chest burster situation, but with like a cute 898 00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:55,240 Speaker 1: little like Elmo esque muppet character, like if an aliens, 899 00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,919 Speaker 1: just like the chest burster birth stands like it's it's 900 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:03,560 Speaker 1: all low. I'm kind of sold. It reminds me of 901 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,360 Speaker 1: this terrifying toy my girlfriend got my daughter for a 902 00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,960 Speaker 1: birthday the other day. It's like a tiny puppy that 903 00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,760 Speaker 1: lives inside a croissant and you turn the croissant inside 904 00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,760 Speaker 1: out and then the tiny puppy emerges. But it's really unclear, 905 00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:17,440 Speaker 1: like the scale of it, like is it is it 906 00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:19,880 Speaker 1: meant to be a tiny puppy or a giant croissant. 907 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,400 Speaker 1: They really don't make that clear. But um, yeah, that's 908 00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:25,840 Speaker 1: not very science at all. But that's what I'm picturing 909 00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:27,840 Speaker 1: this whole time. I'm sorry. I don't know why toys 910 00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:34,360 Speaker 1: have gotten weird. I really have, they really have. You 911 00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,200 Speaker 1: might be comforting yourself with the knowledge that you're not 912 00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,960 Speaker 1: a spider and you're in no danger of a fly 913 00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,720 Speaker 1: hiding out in your lungs, But I want to tell 914 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,520 Speaker 1: you the story of the human version of a spider Fly, 915 00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:49,040 Speaker 1: a secret hideaway killer that will have you checking your 916 00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:53,520 Speaker 1: cross spaces tonight. The Dinverse spider Man doesn't really deserve 917 00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:57,560 Speaker 1: his name. His real name was Theodore Edward Coney's. He 918 00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:01,840 Speaker 1: was a drifter who in one decided he'd settled down, 919 00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:05,200 Speaker 1: but there was a little problem. The home he chose 920 00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:08,760 Speaker 1: was already occupied. Coney Has found a trap door in 921 00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:12,880 Speaker 1: a closet that led to a tiny attic houbbyhole. He 922 00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,360 Speaker 1: went undiscovered for five weeks, leaving his Heidi Hoold to 923 00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,640 Speaker 1: occasionally steal food out of the fridge. One day, the homeowner, 924 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,440 Speaker 1: seventy three year old Philip Peters, discovered Coney's as he 925 00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:28,360 Speaker 1: was foraging for food. Philip whacked Cony's with his cane, 926 00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:33,240 Speaker 1: and Coney's responded by brutally murdering Philip, bludgeoning him to 927 00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:37,760 Speaker 1: death with an iron stove. Stoker. Police investigated the murder, 928 00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,080 Speaker 1: but they found no signs of a break in, and 929 00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:42,520 Speaker 1: though they found the door to the attic, they didn't 930 00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,120 Speaker 1: explore it. They thought it was too small for any 931 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:49,040 Speaker 1: human person to fit through. After the murder, the victim's 932 00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:53,480 Speaker 1: wife and the housekeeper reported hearing strange noises in the night, 933 00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,200 Speaker 1: and they believed the house was haunted, so they moved 934 00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:01,520 Speaker 1: out and Coney's presence remained un known. He stayed in 935 01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,960 Speaker 1: the vacant house until when police came to make a 936 01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:09,680 Speaker 1: routine check and they heard noises coming from the second floor. 937 01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,200 Speaker 1: They followed the noise and saw a pair of legs 938 01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:17,880 Speaker 1: vanishing into the trapdoor. They grabbed them before he could disappear. 939 01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,920 Speaker 1: He was tried and convicted for Phillip's murder and spent 940 01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:25,840 Speaker 1: his life in imprisonment, although really was that a punishment. 941 01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,920 Speaker 1: His cell probably felt like a sprawling estate compared to 942 01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,160 Speaker 1: the tiny nut he hit away in. So do you 943 01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:36,160 Speaker 1: have any crawl spaces in your home? No reason, just 944 01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:42,800 Speaker 1: curious alright, So thank you guys for coming on. This 945 01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,800 Speaker 1: is really fun. Do you guys have anything to plug? Yeah, 946 01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,480 Speaker 1: thank you so much for having a skatie. Yet. You 947 01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:52,760 Speaker 1: can catch Schnol and myself on our show Ridiculous History, 948 01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,560 Speaker 1: to come out twice a week. You can find us 949 01:00:55,560 --> 01:01:00,920 Speaker 1: on Instagram, Facebook, All the podcast places is Mainland, Right, 950 01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,400 Speaker 1: what's the show? We kind of just go into some 951 01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,240 Speaker 1: of the weirder, little off the beaten path kind of 952 01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,400 Speaker 1: history nuggets, A very kind of Snack. Double show episodes 953 01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,240 Speaker 1: are like thirty to forty minutes, very bingeable. It's a 954 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,240 Speaker 1: lot of fun to do. And um. We also do 955 01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,400 Speaker 1: another show called Stuff They Don't Want You to Know, 956 01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:21,480 Speaker 1: where we take a an open minded approach to conspiracy theories, 957 01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,080 Speaker 1: and I would say we take a critical thinking approach 958 01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,400 Speaker 1: to conspiracy. You're much better and more accurate. So you 959 01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,040 Speaker 1: can you can find us on those shows. You can 960 01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,920 Speaker 1: find us all over the regular internet places and wherever 961 01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:37,200 Speaker 1: you find your favorite shows. You can also when you 962 01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,960 Speaker 1: find us on the social media stuff, just hit us 963 01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:43,800 Speaker 1: up directly. We're we're pretty approachable. Unlike some of the 964 01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:47,040 Speaker 1: animals that we met in today's episode. We don't bite 965 01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:50,280 Speaker 1: you know, you guys aren't or or or yeah, or 966 01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:54,120 Speaker 1: inject you with paralyzing venom. Well that's polite of you guys. 967 01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:56,920 Speaker 1: You know, we try to be affable. That's sort of 968 01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,440 Speaker 1: like our that that's our adaptation is it's like the 969 01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,280 Speaker 1: super affability. Yeah, my producers are always like ben stop 970 01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:07,960 Speaker 1: injecting people with paralytic agents. That was before my time. 971 01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:12,560 Speaker 1: So you can find me at Katie Golden or at 972 01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,120 Speaker 1: pro bird Writes where it's revealed I'm Actually a Bird 973 01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:21,080 Speaker 1: and you can check out the podcast every Wednesday on 974 01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,400 Speaker 1: iTunes or the I Heart Radio app or wherever you 975 01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:28,560 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, and just hit us up on Facebook, Twitter, 976 01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,800 Speaker 1: and our website is creature feature pod dot com. And 977 01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:36,080 Speaker 1: thanks to the Space Cossacks for letting us use their 978 01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:41,480 Speaker 1: wonderful song Exo Lumina