WEBVTT - Alternate Theories 0:00:00.880 --> 0:00:03.760 Welcome to the piked in Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:08.799 and Katie Studios. Four members of the Wagner family are 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.520 in prison awaiting death penalty trials for the murder of 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:13.320 eight members of the Rodent family. 0:00:13.520 --> 0:00:17.120 Four suspects are Billy and Angela Wagner and their sons 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:18.439 George the Fourth n j. 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:22.560 These four individuals are now in custody for legilate committing 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:25.360 this heartless, ruthless, cold blooded murder. 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:29.280 Two others have been charged with helping to cover up 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:30.120 the grizzly crime. 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:33.480 Rita Joe Nukam and Fridrika Kirol Wagner under house arrest 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.400 connected to the killings of eight members of the Rodent family. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:38.720 The judges said bond at one hundred thousand dollars. 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:44.199 But while Ohio's largest murder investigation brings the alleged killers 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.760 to stand trial, it also raises some unsettling questions about 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:48.960 the victims themselves. 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:53.159 There had been reports of scuffles with other people in public. 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.240 There were indications that they were involved in some drug 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:57.400 deals and drug trade. 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:58.720 Law enforcement yet. 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.360 To say if the extensive Maria Wanna grow operation they 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:03.279 found is connected to the death. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:06.360 And now two years after the arrests, the residents of 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.120 Pikes in Ohio are conflicted about what really happened on 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:11.959 the early morning of April twenty second, twenty sixteen. 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.240 I think there's more to it, and I don't know 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:17.479 if we'll ever get the truth about it, to be. 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:26.640 Honest with you, this is the Pikeson Massacre, Episode four 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:36.080 Alternate Theories. In the last episode, we examine the motive 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.559 that authorities believe lie at the center of the brutal 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.720 killings of eight members of the Rodent family, a feud 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.800 between Jake Wagner and Hannah Roden over the custody of 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.480 their two and a half year old daughter, Sophia. Though 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:50.680 it is important to remember that the Wagners are all 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.040 innocent until proven guilty, there is mounting evidence to support 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.880 the custody theory. Still, nearly two years after the arrests, 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.160 some residents of Pikes in Ohio are conflicted about their guilt. 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:05.080 You know, the BCI, you know, in the state of Ohio, 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:06.600 poor County. 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:08.320 They're not really wanting to spend a lot of money 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:10.960 on it. Somebody did it, but it wasn't them. It 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.240 just doesn't make sense to me if they are innocent, 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:14.799 because who else would do that. 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.079 I wish we knew exactly what happened. 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.320 I know people kill people over custody, but not that 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:25.440 many people. I think there's more to it. It's bigger 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.960 than what people think it is, and I don't know 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:29.840 if we'll ever get the truth about it. To be 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:30.359 honest with. 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:39.440 You, that's exactly what we're going to explore in this episode. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:43.079 I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KAT Studios. With Stephanie 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.320 Leidecker and Jeff Shane, we worked on a documentary about 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:47.760 the case back in twenty nineteen. 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.280 One thing the three of us know for sure is 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.280 that the Rodents did not deserve this by all accounts, 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.399 they were just a loving and caring family, and their 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.720 loss is felt throughout the entire community. And that's really 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:01.840 why we want to bring not only them, but the 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.000 entire town of Piked injustice and hopefully shed a light 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.480 on the crime and help bring everyone in some sense 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:09.000 of closure. 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.040 Following the Roden murders, it was two and a half 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.600 years before the Wagners were arrested. In that time, many 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:20.480 other plausible theories were put forward, and there are those 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:24.000 who believe that some of them are credible possibilities. When 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.160 we began researching the story, we kept hearing rumblings about 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.440 two of the victims we haven't discussed much yet, the 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:34.880 Rodent sons, Chris Junior and Frankie. From all accounts, twenty 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.160 year old Frankie was a wonderful man. He was a 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:40.520 devoted father and excited about his upcoming marriage to his fiance, 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.240 Hannah Gilly. Chris Junior was just a few years younger 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.920 than Frankie. Brittany, one of Chris Junior's oldest friends, talked 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.200 to Stephanie about her memories of him growing up. 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:53.000 When did you and Chris Junior meet for the first time? 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:53.880 How old were you? Guys? 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:55.880 We were young. 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.120 We were either in Kindergorton or first grade. 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:00.520 And you were friends from that day forward. 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.840 Yes, we actually dated first grade. 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:05.960 He was the love of my life. 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:11.000 What did the first grade version of you love about him? 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.440 He's a little bad and that's how he always was, 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.560 like he was the guy that he's like, I know, 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:18.560 I have it all like. 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.280 He was that type of boy growing up. 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:24.720 One of the things that kept coming up when we 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.159 talked to people around town was the Rodent boy's love 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.440 of demolition Derby. Frankie and Chris Junior were very passionate 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.880 about demolition Derby racing. They spent most of their time 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.720 building and rebuilding these cars to race in Derby's all 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:41.960 across Ohio. We spoke to journalist Jeff Winkler, who spent 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.680 some time at Derby Races as part of his investigation 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:45.919 into the Rodent murders. 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.919 Demolition Derby is if you've seen it on TV, it's 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.039 it looks like chaos, and a's to a degree it is, 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.200 but it's you know, rainming into people. There's a lot 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.320 of loud noises, and there's a lot of concrete flying, 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.800 and there's fires and smoke and dirt and it's exciting 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.359 and fun and people who love it love it. The 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.160 Rodents were deeply involved in demolition derbies in the area. 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.560 They were very much part of that culture. But demolition 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:13.600 derbies are really intense. You're smashing each other, I mean, 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:14.839 emotions get high. 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.800 Jeff told us about one Derby that Chris Junior and 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.040 Frankie participated in in May of twenty fifteen that ends 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:22.240 it in a bloody altercation. 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.480 Based on what's been reported in the court documents, I 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.039 think it's fair to say that Frankie and Chris Junior, 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:32.599 I mean, definitely were hot heads and definitely got into 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:36.640 fights here and there. They had an incident with a 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:40.919 fella named Tommy Gorman who was a rival in the 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:45.560 demolition Derbies. They got into a bit of a sort 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.719 of heated match, and there was a believe a sort 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:50.560 of incident on the track. They got upset with each other. 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.800 It's some bad blood and then again it's you know, 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.440 kind of picked up speed with Facebook posts about sort 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.680 of consulting each other. And then of course Chris Junior 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:06.120 Frankie drove over to Gorman's house and proceeded to really 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:10.520 beat on Gorman and his father, and the fights and 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.720 beatings were only really broken up after the grandfather came 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.520 out and pumped a few shotgun shells into the air. 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.479 According to reports, the Rodents showed up with a dozen 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.720 friends and proceeded to brutally assault Tommy Junior and even 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.599 knocked out his father, Tommy Senior's front teeth in the 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.400 aftermath of the fight. Frankie was arrested and sentenced to 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.440 less than a year's probation for the attack. Chris Junior 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.440 was a juvenile at the time of the attack, and 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:42.800 no court records are available that charges made against him. 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.160 Here's our producer Jeff Shane speaking to Jeff Winkler. 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.280 And was Tommy and his family were they ever looked 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:50.360 at as suspects? Do you know, like, did the sheriff 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.240 ever interview them or see if they were involved? 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.239 I mean, the press had talked to the Gorman family 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.279 after hearing about these fights, you know, on Facebook, but 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.960 as far as I know, the law enforcement never really 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:02.680 approached them. 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:05.840 Well, the Gormans admitted to reporters that there was some 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.479 bad blood between them and the Rodent family, it was 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.320 not enough to retaliate and certainly not enough to kill over. 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.280 In fact, the Gorman family were never suspects in the investigation, 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:21.080 but there were more people to look into as our 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:24.200 investigation unfolded. So too to the list of people who 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.440 could have wanted payback on the Rodents. Take Rusty Mongold, 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.120 another local kid who had gotten into an altercation with 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.320 Chris Junior just two weeks before the Rodents were murdered. 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.360 Long Gold had posted on Facebook that Chris Junior hit 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.640 him with a car and in his message, you know 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.400 he uses some pretty tough language. I mean, Rusty was 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:44.680 nineteen at the time, and you know he's talking about 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:48.800 I'm gonna break his fucking legs and Curb stop his ass, 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:52.080 and I mean just sort of sort of nineteen year 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:55.720 old bluster. Really, the Rusty Mongol thing happened just two 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:59.600 weeks before the murders, so I mean, I think this 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.480 was pretty obvious that the investigators had to check that out. 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:07.160 And of course he got pulled over and was detained 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:12.120 and even did a DNA sample, but it was pretty 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.840 clear that he had nothing to do with it. But 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:16.960 you know, that kind of language is certainly going to 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.480 grab the attention of authorities, especially after something like this. 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.120 With authorities finding no clear link between Rusty Mongold, the 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.000 Gorman family, and the Rodent murders, the feeling around Python 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.240 was still ominous. No one knew who could be responsible 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.280 for the mass murder, or even if the responsible parties 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:40.800 lived next door. Jeff Winkler fills us in on yet 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.559 another incident that happened leading up to the murders. 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.120 According to court documents, on February twenty fourth, and this 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:49.880 was two months before the murders, So two months before 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:54.480 the murders In late February, Chris Junior was involved in 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.640 a road rage incident with a thirty three year old 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:01.400 woman named Rebecca Allen. Apparently, the court records, Rebecca had 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.560 slapped Chris Junior in the face, and she also made 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.920 threats against him and his mother, Dana, which were recorded 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:09.880 on a cell phone. 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.400 Here's what we know about this. Dana Roden, Chris Junior's mom, 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.360 got involved as well, and Rebecca Allen ultimately got two 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.920 years probation, forty hours of community service, and a restraining 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.600 order against contacting Chris Junior and Dana Rodin. This was 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:29.320 on April twentieth, twenty sixteen, one day before the murders 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:29.880 took place. 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.559 There were definitely some scrapes, some posting, and yeah, some 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.560 social media threats. But is that really motive enough to 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:39.640 murder eight people? 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.880 Of course not, But the timing of it is interesting. 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.319 You know, as we try to understand what's happened, it's 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.480 important to know everything this family was going through up 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.640 until the murders, because we don't know what's important until 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.280 we know it's important. But going back to Rebecca Allen 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.040 and the road ridge incident for just one second, Leonard 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.720 Manley Dana's father, who at this point point was just 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.360 trying to cope with the tragedy, was quoted in the 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.320 news as saying that Rebecca Allen should be looked into 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:07.680 with regards to the massacre. 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.920 Danner Roden's family. The Manleys, were deeply entrenched in the 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.360 roadens day to day lives, and they were a key 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.880 piece of the investigation at first. Bobby Joe Manley, for example, 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.040 she's the one who discovered their bodies and also made 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:22.440 that first nine to one one call. 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:25.760 Here's investigative reporter Jody Barr. 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.600 The days after this and I Am on one calls 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.679 were beginning to be produced, so then you could get 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.040 a picture of what happened that morning that you know, 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.960 a family member went into the first home and found 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.680 the first two dead, Gary and Chris. 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.040 Okay, okay, I need to get out of the house. 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:47.320 Did you drive over there? 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:48.480 That's again? 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:48.880 Okay? 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.880 What's your your name? My Bobby, Bobby? 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:53.040 What's your brother? 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:53.800 Last name? 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:56.480 Yeah? 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:57.320 What's his name? 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:07.400 Chris Rode? And dad? That was Bobby Joe Manley. You 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.800 hear about James Manley going over to Dana's house, finding 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:16.439 his sister, dad, his niece, and nephew. So you start 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.320 getting some more pieces to put together in this puzzle 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:22.079 and then you realize, well, wait a minute, why were 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:22.480 they there? 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:26.480 Police want to know that too. 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.520 We found out from Lynn Manley, that's Dana Roden's father, 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:36.439 James Manley's father, that Bobby Joe and James were both 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.520 taken down into the Pike County Sheriff's office and interrogated. 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.520 So from the outset, when you look at that and 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.360 you go, well, obviously they had two people in mind. 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.880 These were the two people who made the initial fines 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.600 of the bodies that morning and made those nine on 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.640 one calls. And then we had gotten word that investigators 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.360 wanted to know who paid them to murder their own family. 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.479 Over the next few weeks, Bobby Joe Manleys questioned several times. 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:08.120 These people are not only being looked at his murder suspects, 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:12.319 They're going through the entire process. They're being interrogated, they're 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.720 given polygraphs. I can tell you I spoke with Bobby 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:21.160 Joe Manley on the porch of her father's home and 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.480 she told me that she was given three polygraph tests 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:25.000 and passed everyone. 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:31.000 As the suspicion surrounding Bobby Joe subsides. Authorities began taking 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.640 a closer look at James Manley, and it's not too 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.320 long before they make a stunning discovery about who he 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.560 talked to on the night of the murders. 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.480 In the overnight hours at two am. This would have 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.000 been just, for all we know, minutes before the murders 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.120 two in the morning. I mean the bodies were found 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.160 at sun up, but that at two in the morning, 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:55.760 James was texting with Jake Wagner. Jake obviously now charged 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.800 in these murders. We didn't know the context of those 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:03.360 ten but we do know that happened, and you know, 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:09.080 it's just strange suspicions. And then James Manley took a 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.000 polygraph and failed that. 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.840 We're going to take a quick break here, we'll be 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:31.640 back in a moment. Here again is Jodi Barr commenting 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:33.760 on James Manley's failed polygraph. 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:35.520 I don't know what to make of that. You know 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.120 what that means, failing a polygraph. I have no idea 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.080 because we don't know what questions were asked. 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.319 Without sufficient evidence to charge him, James Manley is released, 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.040 but police continue to keep an eye on him. 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:51.720 Something to think about is that no arrests were made 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.080 after this questioning or the alleged polygraph failure, So it's 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:57.559 not like the police found some sort of smoking gun 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.440 that implicated him in the crimes. Furthermore, are in the 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:04.560 state of Ohio, polygraphic examinations are admitted under limited circumstances 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.400 in the court of law. In the state. Only if 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.199 all parties, including the defendant, defense attorney, and the prosecutor 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.280 agree in advance to the admissibility of the results, will 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:15.719 the court be inclined to admit them. 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:20.720 Plus, it's really not uncommon for immediate family members, particularly 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.160 those who have discovered bodies, to be considered air quotes 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.200 suspects at first. It's just a natural place for most 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:30.440 investigations to begin. All that said, I can only imagine 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.280 how difficult that must have been for the Manleies. 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:37.200 We found out later that it was some respect a 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:42.000 potential target of the investigation because we know that investigators 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:46.280 put a GPS device underneath James Manley's pickup truck and 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.440 for whatever reasons, they felt a need to track him. 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:54.360 And then James Manly finds that this GPS tracker attached 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.680 to the underside of his pickup truck, he rips that off, 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.560 and then he's arrested for doing that. 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.000 This all happens in May of twenty seventeen, three hundred 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.840 and ninety days after James Manley's sister and her family 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.720 were murdered. He's charged with two felonies, tampering with evidence 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.040 and vandalism, both counts for removing the tracking device on 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:17.600 his car. 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.720 I can remember, you know, getting that news late late 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.160 in the day and driving straight to Ross County, Ohio, 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.000 to the jail where James Manley was booked and you know, 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:32.080 being held overnight or waiting a bond hearing. But on 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.400 the way there, you're trying to replay these conversations in 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.760 your mind that you know, what were the scenarios that 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.200 involved James. Why is there a GPS tracker on the 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.600 brother of you know, a dead family. I mean, this 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.840 was hitting really close to home. So again, every trip 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:53.640 to Pike County was this cloud of suspicion and confusion. 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.720 You wonder if they arrested him on those charges, to 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:58.400 try to just bring him in and hope that they 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:00.680 would then question him and he wouldn't it to something 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:01.680 murder related. 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.680 You know, that was a suspicion. You know, it's like, man, 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.800 where is this going to end up? You know, because 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.120 this story is horrible and horrific enough. 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.120 But six days after his arrest, the charges against James 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:20.000 Manley are dismissed. It's another dead end for investigators. 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.360 Another leading theory at the time was the involvement with 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.400 the drug cartel. The Rodents did have marijuana growing on 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.960 their property, and it was not just a few plants 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.520 here and there in the window. It was a lot. 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.400 A law enforcement source has confirmed that investigators found some 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.800 two hundred marijuana plants on all of the properties. The 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.000 same source said that the size of the operation indicates 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.680 it was being grown for sale and not for personal use. 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.720 And just to put that into perspective, each plant could 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.520 produce around one pound of marijuana, and a pound of 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.960 high grade quality marijuana had a street value of around 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.360 two thousand dollars at the time, meaning that the Rodents 0:16:56.360 --> 0:16:59.960 had in their possession four hundred thousand dollars worth of marijuana. 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.680 I think it's worth noting also that the unemployment rate 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.800 in Piked in Ohio is one hundred and fifteen percent 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.760 higher than the national average, and I share that simply 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.200 to say, by all accounts, the Rodents were very hard 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.399 working people, and the fact that there was this marijuana 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:18.879 grow operation in their backyard kind of erased the entire investigation, 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:21.320 as if the Rodent family was just a bunch of 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.240 drug dealers who had it coming, and based on our research, 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:26.920 that really doesn't add up. 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.920 It should be noted that around the same time as 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.240 the murders, marijuana was being legalized for medicinal use in 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.280 the state of Ohio, So in theory, the Rodents could 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.760 have been growing the crop to be distributed for people 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.040 who were prescribed marijuana legally to treat things like cancer 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:43.040 and Alzheimer's. 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:44.960 Also, when Jeff and I were in piked in the 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.480 last time, somebody said something to us in passing, and 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.399 it's always sort of stuck with me regarding the marijuana 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.359 grow operation. On the one hand, if it was a 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:57.040 small operation, how would that possibly constitute a drug cartel 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:01.120 hit of this size four different locations. It fell very personal. 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.160 Each crime scene seemed to tell a story of sorts, 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.439 not totally the mo of the drug cartel. In our 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.680 research on the flip, if it was a large scale operation, 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.600 they would have needed a lot of equipment, specialized lighting, 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.560 and that lighting likely would have caused a bit of 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.800 a surge in electricity that would have been noticeable by 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.040 the electric company number one and number two. It also 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.840 would have been very bright. Where they lived was a 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.640 very rural road. It's dark, there's no street lights. How 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.320 would a grow operation of that size go unnoticed. 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:35.320 Yeah, and based on all of our research, if it 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.320 really was the drug cartel, they would have killed the 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:39.960 dogs and the kids. They leave no one behind. 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:45.439 I think it's okay for us to confirm that we 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.200 did find marijuana. 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:51.520 In three locations. 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:53.480 Is a grow operations. 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:59.120 Our producer Jeff Shane spoke to investigative journalist James Pilcher, 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.880 who was in and just after the announcement was made. 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:07.200 That obviously fueled even more speculation that these were outside operators. 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:10.199 Possibly was as a drug deal gone bad, or was 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.040 somebody trying to take over their turf. All kinds of 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.639 rumors started flow after that disclosure. 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.159 So this idea that like a drug cartel being a 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.280 potential culprit, it does sound crazy. This small town infiltrated 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.840 by you know, international drug dealers in. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.480 The middle of Appalachia in southern Ohio, you know, but 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:31.479 if it turned out to be that, we would not 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.560 have been surprised because Mexican drug cartels had done a 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:38.000 lot of activity in southern Ohio, in the Pike County 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:39.919 and Soota County and in Ross County. 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.840 In fact, in August twenty twelve, law enforcement officers found 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.840 a major marijuana groves site in Pike County. It had 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:52.720 suspected ties to a Mexican drug cartel. During that raid, 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.760 officials destroyed about twelve hundred marijuana plants and found two 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:01.560 abandoned campsites they believed belonged to Mexican national The main. 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.800 Route from southern Ohio to Columbus, which is the next 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:08.200 biggest city next to Cincinnati, cuts right all through there, 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.600 so you have those people coming in and out. Now, 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:20.360 were the Rodents involved directly in the narcotics business. There 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.399 were indications that they were involved in some drug deals, 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:28.199 in drug trade with marijuana. The Rodans had attack dogs, 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.879 which again belies that all American image, which means what 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.240 did they have to hide? They had attack dogs, the 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:38.280 security cameras, there was a lot of security at that place. 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.600 They wanted to protect what they had. Now, does that 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:47.000 mean that they were doing anything wrong, not necessarily, but 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:48.879 it certainly raised a lot of questions. 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:53.000 Journalist Jodi Barr walked off through the logic of the 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:54.080 drug cartel theory. 0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:58.360 As the months war on, no one has been arrested, 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.920 no one charged, no people named as persons of interest, 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:04.960 you really started to wonder, you know, maybe this drug 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:09.240 cartel thing has there was something to that. They definitely 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:13.800 knew how to kill people. You know, you're looking for 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:17.760 signs of a drug cartel, and then you find Kenneth 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.600 Roden with what appeared to be a gunshot in the head. 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:26.199 Whether there were dollar bills or some sort of paper 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.480 money spread around the body, Was that a sign? What 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.000 did that mean? You know, as you know, a reporter, 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.399 you're studying back, trying to draw conclusion or at least 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.240 a lead from what this meant. I mean, what does 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.720 that mean? There's a body lying there with money on it, So, 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:45.200 of course a drug cartel. At that point in time, 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.320 you couple with the Attorney General announcing that they found 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:51.240