WEBVTT - Ep. 468: Bugling for Bulls and a Decoy Genius 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.760 This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:17.640 severely bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listening to podcast, 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.840 you can't predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.480 to you by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.600 hanging deer stands, or scouting for ELP. First Light has 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:31.360 performance apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.000 it out at first light dot com. F I R 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:39.960 S T L I T E dot com. All Right, 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:42.920 Dave Smith this year from DSD. Dave Smith decoys hates 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:43.840 doing podcasts. 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:46.680 I'm glad to be here. I thanks so much for. 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:50.600 Guy knows a lot about hunting. 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:51.960 He knows a lot about hunting. 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:55.680 Yeah, every time I talk to him, I've learned something 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.560 new that I've never learned in the whatever thirty one 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:00.000 almost thirty two years i've. 0:00:59.920 --> 0:01:04.560 Been Yeah, he's an artist. Yeah, an artist, decoy designer, 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.199 built a great business. Dave Smith Decoy's likes. 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:09.080 To hunt comfortably. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:13.040 Likes to hunt comfortably, self deprecating, funny, well more could 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.080 you ask? You're already married though? Right? 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:18.759 Well, I mean, I'm just jealous of all you guys 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.120 that can actually move around the mountains and everything like 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:23.280 that and are physically fit and everything. So I just 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.199 hunt the way that I have to. And also I've 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:32.800 noticed that I'm old. I'm like easily the oldest person 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:34.280 in this entire organization. 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.479 Oh yeah, you might have beat Brody. 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:39.440 Whoever he is, I'd call him a kid. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:40.520 How old you? 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:42.360 I just turned sixty. 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:44.959 Yeah, you might be the oldest person. 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:49.160 That's right. So you guys, I expect to be treated 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.400 as such exactly. 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.480 We also got Jason Phelps joined to remotely. He's gonna 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.000 tell you with with the Elk bugle coming up, Elk's 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.040 Heason't coming up, Elk Archie Phelps is going to share 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:07.240 with you our esteemed listeners. Three I I asked him 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.360 three things that people are to keep in mind, and 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:12.160 he's going to share three things that people ought to 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.800 keep in mind. We got a chaster here, Uncle Chastey 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:23.200 seth Krin's wearing her headphones today. Mm hmm, fills over 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:27.200 in his little corner. Everything's great. We got a couple announcements. 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:33.480 Make up top. We are re kicking off playing on 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:37.359 his phone, trying to plug stuff. 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:39.560 Me too. 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:45.560 Listen, We're re kicking off the auction House of Oddities, 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.240 which comes and goes, as you know. But holy smokes, 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.839 the lineup this year? So, uh, when when's it start? 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:53.520 Krinn this week? 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:55.400 Oh it does this week? 0:02:56.200 --> 0:03:01.520 How's that possible? Oh? Yeah, this week? I'm with you. 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:04.480 We have I'm holding a couple lels for one of 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:06.079 thing I'm not holding. I don't know if Sunday it 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:09.520 might wind up on the auctionsvanities? Is we finally after forever? 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.480 So we bought a punt gun at an antique auction 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.120 for way more money than I'd care to admit. But 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:23.040 the barrel, I'm only holding the action. The barrel takes 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:24.800 a couple of people to hold. Yeah, if you watch 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:26.839 it on if you're listening on YouTube, you can see 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:27.520 what I'm talking about. 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:28.000 You. 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:32.120 It takes two people to pick the barrel up. It's 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:36.640 a one hundred pound barrel. Yeah, it's seven feet it's seven 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:37.240 feet long. 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:39.840 Is there going to be a raffle for who gets 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:42.720 to hold the barrel when we shoot it? 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:44.520 No, because I think the liability You don't hold the 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:45.240 barrel when you shoot. 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.760 Yeah, two people don't hold it. 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.040 The way a punt gun works. You had a little vessel. 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:53.320 You had a little boat picture like a little canoe 0:03:54.480 --> 0:04:00.360 that just basically accommodates the punt gun. It's well, no, 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:05.160 it's on a frame and it's on a slide. It's 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.240 on a frame. You don't move the punt gun, you 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:11.520 move the boat. It's on a sliding block filled with 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:16.960 bags of sand. Or they would use sea oats to 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.440 absorb some of the recoil because that boat when you 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:25.200 pull the trigger, that boat's going backwards. The shell. I'm 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.560 holding the shell right now, this shell, so it's a 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:31.160 two gage shotgun, but this is the shell is nine 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:34.680 inches long. This thing throws over a pound. 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:38.680 Let made forgetting things. 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.159 And you would go up often at night. You would 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:46.880 go up on rafted ducks, aim your boat at them, 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:55.640 cock it and pull the rope. So well, you're safe 0:04:55.720 --> 0:05:01.080 right now. So almost had an accident this morning. So we 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.000 had to go to an engineering firm to get AMMO made. 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:08.400 I'm holding an original casing. It's a two gage shotgun, 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:15.360 gauge being inverse like wire and whatnot. They don't sell 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.560 it as such, but it's basically a two gage shotgun. 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.440 We went to an engineering. 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.279 Meaning that if you took a pound of lead and 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.920 split it into two balls, one of the balls will fit. 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:28.560 Is that how it goes? 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:29.160 Yeah? 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.600 Well the way yeah, I shouldn't say yeah. So what 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:38.680 we did is, yes, gauge traditionally comes from A twelve 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:43.520 gage shotgun means twelve It takes twelve leads spheres that 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:48.320 diameter to comprise a pound. A twenty gage shotgun takes 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.039 twenty lead spheres that diameter to comprise a pound. A 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:56.560 four to ten is obviously a measurement four tenths of 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:58.719 what does it hold true for the two gauge? So 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.000 this is just extra affilated up on board diameter. But 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:06.760 I haven't correlated it to lead spheres. But I'm assuming, 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.640 I'm assuming, so they didn't sell them as such. But yeah, 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:12.840 and it also the other thing about it is the 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:16.800 casing is I'll do that. I'll make a lead sphere 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:21.160 with my micrometer. Perhaps we sent it to an engineering 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:26.239 firm and they made us a partial shell with a primer. 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.360 And I needed to test the punt gun. So I 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:35.440 have here, I'm cocking it. You can hear that's the cocking. 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:39.599 Here's the rope pull. Now when you hit it on 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:42.600 your finger, you could feel the firing pin. But we didn't. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:44.320 We wanted to make sure before we went through all 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:47.120 this hassle, we wanted to make sure that the mechanism 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.120 was still good in it. So these guys loaded up 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:56.200 a primed practice shell today in demonstrating how a shotgun 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.480 shell normally worked, I wasn't really thinking clear. First off, 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:01.400 I cut the shit I'll open, poured the shot off, 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.919 pulled the wad out, dumped the powder out on my 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.440 work bench, and I wanted to knock the primer out 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:11.000 of there, but I had it upside down and I 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:12.560 was trying to push out and couldn't get it. So 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.440 I eventually took a Phillip screwdriver and put it through 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.600 the shell against the primer and was trying to push 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:21.160 it out, but wouldn't come. So I picked up a 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:25.920 pair of bullnose plyers travers plyers and whapped the end 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.440 of that thing going the wrong direction, but it's still activated. 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.800 That summer bitch scared the ship out of me that 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:38.280 primer off with all that powder land there. Man, Oh 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.840 my god, man, I could have hurt my eyeballs. That 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:43.240 would have been the thing is. It would have really 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.200 hurt your eyeballs because it was right in my face. 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:52.360 It's probably and that was even the moment I took 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:55.480 At the moment I took those bullnose plyers and was 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.320 kind of coming down on that handle that screwdriver. I 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:04.840 was second, does it work in reverse? That powder was 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.920 like what eighteen inches away? But it could have just 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:10.120 as well. I would not have done anything different if 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.640 that powder was like right in a pile below. 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.000 The But you think that it would have been the 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.880 flash that would hurt your eyes or just a debris. 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.040 Can we just a oh yeah, just a debris from 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.920 that primer hurt my eyes. Yeah, it was loud. That 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.840 Spencer's like I need some hearing protection. Yeah, you need 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.200 some eye protection. So we screwed it in. You see 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.200 it like this thing, So this punt gun action threads 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:37.200 in right the like you know, you'd kill twenty ducks 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.360 with a shot with this thing, and a good that'd 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:41.960 be good. I we have a whole book. We have 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.400 a book called The Outlaw Gunner. It's about punt gunners. 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.400 And he was like, people get the wrong idea. Twenty 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.679 is a good pole, nine is a good poll. It's 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:52.880 people weren't killing whole flocks of ducks with a single 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:55.240 shot from a punt gun. But mile Man, who was 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.840 old when he had me. Mile Man remembers seeing punt gunners, 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:06.560 legal punk gunners that had three punk guns stacked one 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.120 off the water. Then you pull the next rope and 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:11.200 it hits them as they're get taken flight, and the 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:13.640 third shot hits them a little higher. He said, they 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:15.600 had three of them stacked at different angles. I don't 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:16.920 know where the hell he was when he saw that. 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:18.880 How wide does the spread? 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:27.480 I don't know yet. So you remember Gallagher, the comedian Gallagher? Okay, wow, 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.120 I'm out. Do you know about Gallagher? 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:30.640 What about you? 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:30.880 Two? 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.760 Too young for Gallagher? I know Gallaer's young. 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:38.040 Striped shirt and the. 0:09:44.240 --> 0:09:46.840 Husky. Remember when you were a kid and if the 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:53.440 word husky if you were like a chunky kid pants pants, Yeah, 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:54.720 you like and it met It was meant for like 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:55.600 kind of chunky kids. 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:57.439 I remember my mom brought me home a pair of 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.079 husky pants one time by accidentally, and I thought she 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:02.000 was saying I was like fat. 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.679 Kind of tore me up a bit. But so Gallagher 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:08.760 there is Gallagher. Imagine weird al if he was husky 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:13.800 and bald but still had all the long hair, so 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:15.360 like it's the kind of long hair, and it's kind 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.280 of a sweet look when you go bald on top 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:23.079 of you grow real long that little half moon toilet 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:28.839 seat deal, but you grow that out long. But I'm 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:30.319 gonna do it and slick it back. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:30.720 Man. 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:38.520 Anyways, Gallagher had two Gallagher had two groups. He had 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:40.400 two lines of comedy and they were very different, but 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.960 he'd combine them into one set. One of his things 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:48.680 was how ridiculous in the English language was, so he 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.080 get a lot of mileage. How could there be like 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:56.480 there th h e r e, you know, but then 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:59.640 there's there th h e i r And he got 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.000 tremendo amount of mileage out of the idiosyncrasies of the 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:07.480 English language how things spell. And then he started to 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:10.640 lose people or whatever, and he'd get out in huge 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:16.000 sledgehammer and fruit and he would proceed to smash fruit 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.000 with a sledgehammer. And people in the know would buy 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.640 tickets to Gallagher and they would wear raincoats and get 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:27.880 viscueen and whatnot to protect themselves. And Gallagher would set 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:31.800 up a watermelon or whatever and hit it with a hammer, 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.920 point being that's what this punt gun is for. 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.040 So when you were saying you were asking me if 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:41.199 I knew of Gallagher. I was just sitting there thinking, 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:42.840 like the first thing that came to my mind was 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:45.600 that dumb comedian. And I was sitting there trying to well, 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.160 that can't be it, Like, who's this person knows all 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.679 about waterfowl lore? You know, I'm trying to think, who's Gallagher? 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:52.400 Who's Gallagher? 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:52.680 You know? 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:58.280 We want to shoot stuff like watermelons and whatnot with 0:11:58.320 --> 0:11:59.040 this punk gun. 0:11:59.080 --> 0:11:59.480 There you go. 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:01.160 But one of the things I want to do is 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.400 just put out a couple of sheets of plywood at 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:06.360 fifty sixty yards whatever and see what kind of pattern 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:07.120 you get out of those. 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:09.479 We can put out a whole flock of Dave Smith Decoy's. 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:17.760 Well, I'm going to round up I'm going to round 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.280 up people that have old faded out like I have 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:22.640 some in my collection. I have some old faded out, 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:27.040 you knows. I get old flambos or like they like 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.160 they paint the beak and the wrong spot on them 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.360 and whatnot. Get some of those and line them out 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.400 and maybe shoot at them. When we do want to 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.160 put a pound of let out into a pond, is 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:35.680 the problem? 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.959 Yeah, when we do that, we should paint the decoys 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.079 in such a way that the shot would really read well. 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.400 Or fill them with that stuff that people fill decoy 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:46.880 targets with nowadays. 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:51.520 Then you know with the ones that blow up, you 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:52.319 know that they got hit. 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:53.920 Yeah, we'll figure it out. 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:55.920 I know the perfect guy that you got to talk 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:57.199 to Worth Matthewson. 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:58.280 Is he a punt gun man? 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.000 Well, he knows all about him, and he does. He 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.079 still hunts with an eight age. It goes to Scotland 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.400 every year and hunts. And he's he's a heck of 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.600 a great guy and just a water fell and mentor 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:12.440 of mine. And he's been around a long time. 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.120 So really and he knows about he'd be able to 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:15.800 share with us some info about punt. 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:21.320 Gun absolutely punk gun. He he might. I'll check with him, 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.800 I'll send it, I'll call him up. He might. He 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:24.920 talks about him all the time. 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.040 You see how this is it Holland and Holland h 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.320 and h punk uh huh. And the barrel you couldn't 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.959 see it. I mean, the the this part's beautiful, it's 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.040 very ornate, it's all inscribed, but the barrel just looks 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:38.000 like a cannon off of warship and someone had painted 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:43.160 a gunship gray and I drembled off the I drembled 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:44.920 off some of the paint. You can see the old 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.000 address that London street, the address for H and H 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:53.839 in London. It's cool man, but that's that. Well, I 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:59.440 talk about auction House of Oddities. That's not in it. 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.439 But sorry, if you got your hopes, yeah, you got 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:04.800 your hopes up well, point being, it might someday be 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.680 there Auction House of Adities. This year you could do 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.199 an opening weekend deer hunt at Doug Dirt at the 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.720 Duran family farm. Or you can go on a turkey 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:18.600 hunt at the Durham family farm and get a tour 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.000 of the Duran family farm. And when you're there, ask 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.200 Doug if you will take you to the spring House 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:30.760 and depending on your age, ask for the spring House story. 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.600 M hmmm. Is that the odd part about it? 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.240 Because I'll make a house of odd Yeah, Doug's a 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.520 odd guy. Okay, He'll probably take you down to get kurds. 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.960 Yeah, you'll definitely go for a over the Carr. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:52.400 Valley you'll take You'll take Duran Road and Doug will 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.240 drive around real slow and tell you like stories about 0:14:56.240 --> 0:15:00.680 murdering mayhem and cousins and who owned what and what 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:05.440 that guy this and that right and that tree one time, 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:09.160 and you know one time he urinated all over the 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:11.480 top of that stop sign, but his friend tried to 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:12.800 do the same and shat his. 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.240 Pants, Like, I don't know, that's pretty odd. 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.680 And then you'll get to do You'll get to do 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:23.600 a hunt on the Durham farm where we filmed hunts 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.160 and have done hunts, and I take my kids there 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.000 every year for spring turkey or a deer hunt in 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:29.920 the Durham farmers for three hundreds. So that's in the 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.280 auction house of Hoonities. You you bid, win the package, 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:35.040 and then pick what you want and you get a 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:39.840 tour of the Durham family farm. The oddity part, I 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:40.240 don't know. 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:43.320 It's what you just said, Oh that spring house. 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.920 Go to the spring House and depending on age and everything, 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.120 Doug might tell you the spring house tail. 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:51.120 I don't think i've heard that one. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:55.280 Well I have not, kids have not. Maybe you should 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.560 have bid on that chester a handmade log home from 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.800 Naughty log Homes. Real, really, I'm not kidding you. Twelve 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:07.280 by twenty trappers cabin they're donating they have donated to 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:11.920 our Land Access Initiative. A log home, a twelve by 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.720 twenty two hundred and forty foot square trappers cabin, four 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:16.960 foot overhang off the front, shipped anywhere? 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:22.080 Wow, what do you mean anywhere when you auction? 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.240 When you buy it at auction, you'll have to pay 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.080 to have it shipped. Oh, but they're in Idaho. 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:30.880 Say I could use one of those up at the shack. 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:34.760 Better dig Yeah, factor that in better dig D. 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:36.920 I think you're meant to say, because I need one 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:37.920 of those in Wisconsin. 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.200 You need to talk to someone with a Chinook helicopter. Yeah, 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.080 and get it dropped in where you want it. Twelve 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.720 by twenty. I wish I had that damn thing. Yeah, 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:55.800 a lot of art so people might have seen can 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:57.120 we can we put? We don't have? I wish I 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:01.680 had this in here from Jamie Wild Art. She did 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.960 the commission to painting of mine of the wolves disemboweling 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.359 device and eating it alive. She also does a lot 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:13.639 of canine art. So we have a print of my 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.600 commission to painting, which hangs just outside our studio door, 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.320 of the wolves eating a bison alive while still staying 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:24.760 there and disemboweling it, a print of that that Jamie 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.320 and I will both sign, and then a piece of 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:33.440 custom work from Jamie. We have custom artwork from Kelsey Morris, 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:38.040 Seth Morris's wife, Kelsey Morris of Studio Gallery. What's it called? Yeah, 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:42.480 the Studio Studio Gallery and three Forks Montana. Dinner for 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:47.600 four at my house. That's an auction item. You three 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:49.719 friends come to my house and we will serve you 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.080 many courses of phenomenal food at my house. Yannie's going 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.560 to join in, I believe, I don't know if he 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:58.800 knows it yet, there to serve. 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.600 This is separate from a big giveaway dinner at your 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:02.480 different dinner. 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:03.320 Is there. 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.120 That one? Yeah, if you want it to be vegan, 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.560 I'll make it vegan. If you win the auction, that 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:11.639 you win the auction, it's up to you. No, we 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.640 have another giveaway dinner that we're doing here at the office. 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:16.760 This is a dinner at my house. You and three 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:18.960 friends come to my house. I will cook you dinner. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:20.480 Yani will be there to help serve. We'll get a 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:22.080 whole bunch of our crew down there to help with 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:26.320 the meal. A fob Harness an f O b f 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.280 HF harness called the Fur Trappers Edition, where we're gonna 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.280 Paul Lewis from f HF is going to face one 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:37.560 of his fob inyl harnesses in furs that I caught sweet. 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:38.919 If you want it done and mink, will do it 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:40.480 in mink. If you want don Martin, will do it 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.040 in Martin. If you want done in Beaver, will do 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.960 it in Beaver. So you get a fur fob harness 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.400 one of a kind that's up for auction. The elk 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:53.639 Bugle tube that Phelps used on the hunt where he 0:18:53.720 --> 0:19:02.440 and I hunted in New Mexico signed scrolling down. I'm 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.000 holding right now. If you're watching, you can see this. 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.840 I'm holding an arrow that says Ted Nugent ninety one. 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:11.439 Now check this out. I gotta put my spectacles on, 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:18.960 gearing up ready. We had a while ago, long time ago, 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.720 Uncle Teddy Teddy Nuggets, as Cal calls him. We called 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.359 him Uncle Ted growing up. We had him on the 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.400 show and he talked about doing a show and rock. 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.280 He talked about doing a show in northern Michigan where 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.640 he missed a target. A guy wrote it in and said, 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:39.440 I had to be working backstage security for that concert 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:44.400 up at the Castle in Charlolavoyle, Charlavoy. After the shot 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.399 and subsequent missed, Ted's assistant came back and set Ted's 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.880 bow and arrow down on a table that was just backstage. 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:55.080 Long story short, they asked the security guy to keep 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.679 an eye on the bow until they come back and 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.040 retrieve it after the show. Just left it on a table, 0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:05.159 Bye and bye. Here comes the guy that comes and 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:06.960 grabs the bow and goes to walk off with it. 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:10.120 Teds like, or the guy the scary guys like, tell 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:11.640 you doing? He goes, they told me to grab the bow. 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.760 He said, no, no, no, no U. Someone told me to 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.200 wash the bow till Ted comes gets it. You ain't him. 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.080 I'm holding the bow. Another guy comes up and says, 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.000 what's going on? He said. This guy says he's supposed 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:26.719 to pick up the bow? Why not being the guy 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.760 who was trying to steal the boat. Now the arrow 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:38.119 that Ted had missed with was broken. When Ted found 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.720 out that the guy saved his bow from getting stolen, 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:42.560 he said, let me know if there's ever anything I 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:44.480 can do for you. The guy said, yeah, you could. 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:48.960 I would like to have that arrow. Uncle Ted then 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:51.680 signed the arrow. We have the full in art. This 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.960 is called the provenance. The provenance, we have the provenence 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:59.879 of the arrow. I then emailed Uncle Ted and said, 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:08.639 check this story out. His reply was, damn cool. Huh, 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:11.840 this will be in the auction House of Audities a 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:16.600 lunum shaft Ted Nugent ninety one. That's cool checks out. 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.040 And the one freaking story. 0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.320 You might have already said this, but he missed the target? 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:22.919 Is that the one where he missed a target and 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:25.200 then he decided to get down on his hands and knees. 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.600 And no I shared that story with him. That was 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:31.199 at a whiplash bash. He missed a target and then 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:36.879 got down on his knees and he missed the target 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.960 of a white buffalo before doing great white buffalo got 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:43.320 down on his knees and bowed before the white buffalo target. 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.080 Me and my late friend Eric Kern. We didn't catch 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:50.080 that one. But me and my late friend Eric Kern 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:52.640 went to the whiplash bash and Uncle Ted threw out 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.480 jerky and me and Eric picked up some jerky off 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:56.159 florin ate it. 0:21:56.520 --> 0:22:01.400 Rock and roll Nice Times has some rock and roll 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:01.800 right there. 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.800 That's in the auction House of aodities, my personal weather 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:09.119 be Mark five chambered and three hundred win mag Left Handed, 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.240 which we fillmed a bunch of media episodes is in 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:15.679 the Auction House of Oddities. And also if you've if 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:17.600 you watched the show, you've seen a hundred times the 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.320 singer a moose gets up and charges me, and I 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:26.240 go something like that that gun. Now, if you watch 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:29.080 that episode, you'll see that the gun appears to misfire. 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:30.840 So a lot of people have asked about the misfire. 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:34.240 It didn't. I shot at the moose that ran off, 0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:38.719 and I changed. I immediately instinctively chambered around, ran after 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:41.160 the moose and forgot that I had chambered the round 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:43.040 because I had hit in the brisket and it went 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.160 down and got up, and I knew it was probably 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:47.320 not mortally wounded, so it wasn't like, oh well, wait, 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.800 let him run off and die. So I ran after 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.000 him to try to get another one in him the 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:54.640 minute I started running. Later, reviewing the footage, the minute 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:56.960 I started running, I rechambered, so I had three in 0:22:57.000 --> 0:22:59.479 the I had three in the magazine, none in the chamber, 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:06.040 chambered shot the bowl, two shots left spit the empty out, 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:10.680 put a live in started running forgot spit the live out. 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:13.919 Put live in shot at the moose again as it 0:23:14.000 --> 0:23:17.119 ran through the brush, chambered again. Now I'm empty. I 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:20.320 walk up to the moos to dispatch it and click. 0:23:20.800 --> 0:23:22.640 So people are like, oh, gun miss fired. The gun 0:23:22.640 --> 0:23:26.639 didn't miss fire. That gun's fine. I still own it today. 0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:30.280 It is a Carolina custom rifle chambered in three hundred short. 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:33.600 Make that gun from that moose charge and those episodes 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:35.160 will be in the auction house of Aodities. 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:38.960 I have a quick question. You just said, you just 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:42.200 referred to that moose as charging, Like I just watched 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:46.000 an episode not too long ago of a six hundred 0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:50.720 pound grizzly bear running at you and cal as fast 0:23:50.720 --> 0:23:54.720 as American run and you called it false charging, And 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:57.000 I'm just kind of curious what does charging look like? 0:23:57.160 --> 0:23:58.560 And if he made contact with me? 0:23:58.800 --> 0:23:59.280 Okay? 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.320 So I was like, it was like you come home, 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:05.240 you know, from somewhere, and your your truck is riddled 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:07.199 and bullets and stuff, and what do you say to 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:09.399 your wife, like, oh, I got false shot at Like 0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:11.399 none of the bullets actually hit me, So I got 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:15.720 false shot at like, yeah. 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:17.720 Krin, I'm holding up another item from the auction as 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:21.280 about it. These come from these are from some a pair. 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:24.760 Of Steve caught Martin's is past year. 0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:26.240 Had a hat made for my wife. We had the 0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:32.120 tails left over. Wow, Krina is fashioned. He's into gorgeous earrings. Yeah, 0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:32.960 describing Grin. 0:24:33.920 --> 0:24:40.879 So there Herkimer quartz diamonds from a podcast listener, Herkimer 0:24:42.119 --> 0:24:51.320 her herk diamonds and uh the mink this oops, pardoned 0:24:51.320 --> 0:24:55.000 me the Martin tails from Steve's Martin's and then a 0:24:55.440 --> 0:25:01.359 sterling silver wire wrap. So it's all sterling silver stone. 0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:04.480 I did, but I think it might have closed up. 0:25:07.040 --> 0:25:09.680 This is this is like an adorning costume for the 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:13.520 Latvian eagle. Martin tails. 0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:20.199 So sweet. 0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:23.960 So the Auction House of Oodities back better than ever. 0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:27.199 All of the money raised in the Auction House of 0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:30.359 Oodities goes to our own land access initiative. With the 0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:34.280 land access initiative, we've done so we contributed on a 0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:41.600 land access a public land purchase in Maine. We participated 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:47.760 on a public land access purchase in northwest Montana cala Is, 0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:52.000 eyeballing one along the Yellowstone River right now. And plus 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:54.560 we will use some of the items. Another item I 0:25:54.560 --> 0:25:58.400 should throw this in. You know the Missouri corner crossers. 0:25:58.880 --> 0:26:02.320 This is kind of freshest morning. Yeah, the famous Missouri 0:26:02.359 --> 0:26:07.520 corner crossers. They have donated their ladder. So you can 0:26:07.560 --> 0:26:12.840 buy a piece of American history at the media or 0:26:12.880 --> 0:26:15.680 auctional sdvice. You can buy the device that has now 0:26:15.760 --> 0:26:20.920 been covered by every news agency on the planet, still 0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:23.040 working its way through the courts. You can buy the 0:26:23.160 --> 0:26:26.520 ladder used in the Wyoming corner crossing case. The stipulation 0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:29.160 there is the revenue from that, and this is part 0:26:29.200 --> 0:26:31.760 of land access. The revenue for that will go in 0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:38.440 illegal defense fund, which has been mighty successful thus far, 0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:44.159 a legal defense fund for the corner crossers who have 0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:49.120 been putting a Regardless of how you feel about whether 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:51.000 corner crossing should be legal or not, these guys have 0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:54.600 been placed in an extremely unfortunate position after getting very 0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:58.160 mixed signals from multiple law enforcement and land management agencies, 0:26:58.200 --> 0:27:01.280 and they are at this point they have come victims 0:27:01.280 --> 0:27:02.800 of a system that is whacked. 0:27:05.640 --> 0:27:08.399 And there's many more items than that, many more items. 0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:12.800 I have something I could donate, but it's really there's 0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:15.479 nothing compared to those things. But I just thought of something. 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:20.560 I have an owl coughing and one of the and 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:23.520 there's an exposed bone and it has a leg band 0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:23.920 on it. 0:27:25.600 --> 0:27:27.400 That taxidermy coughing. 0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:32.040 Yeah, out pellet. So it ate a bird that was 0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:36.479 banded and it coughed up all the feathers and bones, 0:27:36.520 --> 0:27:38.720 and right on the outside of all of. 0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:46.600 It is let me get it clear, for an owl pellet, 0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:53.760 is is a coughing. So an owl eats. 0:27:53.880 --> 0:27:56.280 In our in our book Catching Crayfish Count the Stars, 0:27:56.320 --> 0:27:58.800 we have a thing about We have an instructional about 0:27:58.840 --> 0:28:02.960 how to dissolve and dissemble owl pellets in order to 0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:04.760 see what all they've been up to. So when owl 0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:09.199 will eat its food whole and then digest food and 0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:14.320 regurgitates the bones in these little balls. And you'll look 0:28:14.320 --> 0:28:16.399 at these little balls and like a standard thing to 0:28:16.400 --> 0:28:19.840 see in these little balls is mouse jaws. They stand 0:28:19.880 --> 0:28:22.600 out real good mouse molers. 0:28:22.680 --> 0:28:25.560 But you'll answer my question, is another word for an 0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:27.520 owl pellet and owl coughing? 0:28:27.720 --> 0:28:29.200 I've never heard him. I never heard that word. 0:28:29.720 --> 0:28:33.359 So the reason why that we've used that term before 0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:35.680 us a lot of people know that it's it's that 0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:37.280 they're not pooping. It it's not. 0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:40.400 Because they might think it's gross. 0:28:40.400 --> 0:28:43.200 If you shat it out, it wouldn't be quiet, as 0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:46.720 the auction value would definitely go down, will shift. It 0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:49.240 wasn't Yeah, if it was a piece of owl shit. 0:28:49.800 --> 0:28:52.080 Man, We've had some see we've had some auction House 0:28:52.120 --> 0:28:56.360 of Oddities donations that we've had lawyers prevent us from selling. 0:28:57.080 --> 0:28:58.320 This is one of those things. 0:28:58.480 --> 0:29:01.200 It's like me showing up at his house with Luke 0:29:01.240 --> 0:29:03.440 Comb's guitar and like playing him a song on one 0:29:03.440 --> 0:29:04.160 of them that they. 0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:09.400 Next, Yeah, that brought up liability problems. You could be 0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:14.560 lured into his sorted, some kind of sorted. 0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:17.000 Put the lotion on the skin. 0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:18.680 Yeah, it was gonna be we had one of those. 0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:21.640 Chester is gonna show up like you could have them. 0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:23.920 He'll wear whatever you want, right down to right down 0:29:23.960 --> 0:29:25.200 to his his thong. 0:29:26.480 --> 0:29:30.320 Said that I never agreed to that, even. 0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:32.040 Like I'm on there at midnight. The thong. 0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:38.000 One got nixed with Spencer and I getting tattooed. 0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:40.920 Oh yeah, that got mixed. You were gonna be able 0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:43.720 to pick whatever tattoo you wanted on Seth and Spencer. 0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:47.560 That got mixed. A lot of things get mixed, so 0:29:47.880 --> 0:29:49.760 he just gets better, just like do you remember when I 0:29:49.800 --> 0:29:53.080 was a little boy, they would do a fundraiser. Jerry Lewis, 0:29:53.240 --> 0:30:00.200 the actor Jerry Lewis would do fundraiser for ms. Remember 0:30:00.280 --> 0:30:03.400 Jerry's kids. He would do a fundraiser and he would 0:30:03.440 --> 0:30:05.719 do it for forty eight hours, just get delirious at 0:30:05.720 --> 0:30:08.080 the end. I feel like that right now. You can't 0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:09.520 even tell what he's saying at the end of it 0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:11.000 was a whole part of the event that he would 0:30:11.000 --> 0:30:11.840 stay up that long. 0:30:13.120 --> 0:30:13.320 Wow. 0:30:13.560 --> 0:30:16.120 But this is like that because it just keeps getting 0:30:16.120 --> 0:30:18.640 better and better. Dave Smith has now donated and I 0:30:18.680 --> 0:30:21.240 will pell it with a banded bird foot sticking out 0:30:21.240 --> 0:30:23.960 of it. Did you lacker it to hold it together? 0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:25.080 Is it pretty good? 0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:25.320 No? 0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:27.240 It's it holds together really well. It's just in a 0:30:27.280 --> 0:30:30.200 little plexa glass case. I might have to come up 0:30:30.200 --> 0:30:33.480 with a more decorative case or something to put it in. 0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:36.360 But it's just sitting, you know, it's just sitting at 0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:39.040 my house. It's it'll be there till the next glacial 0:30:39.080 --> 0:30:42.240 period if I don't do something, you know, with it. 0:30:42.280 --> 0:30:44.400 So do you know what kind of bird it is? 0:30:45.480 --> 0:30:45.680 Yeah? 0:30:45.680 --> 0:30:46.680 I think it was a pigeon. 0:30:47.120 --> 0:30:47.520 Pigeon. 0:30:47.680 --> 0:30:50.880 Yeah, oh yeah, that makes sense, all right. The auction's 0:30:50.880 --> 0:30:52.760 about it. He's coming soon, better than ever. All the 0:30:52.760 --> 0:30:55.360 money goes to land Access your initiative. We will be 0:30:55.480 --> 0:31:02.160 using the funds primarily for land access purchases, enhancing and 0:31:02.160 --> 0:31:10.760 improving public access. One other little money thing. This is 0:31:10.840 --> 0:31:15.400 kind of a convoluted story. There's these animal rights activists 0:31:15.800 --> 0:31:24.000 that in Nevada the target bear biologists. Oddly, they target 0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:28.000 Nevada state agency bear biologists. One of these animal rights 0:31:28.040 --> 0:31:33.000 activists actually had a restraining order against her for harassing 0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:41.240 and targeting a female biologist with a Nevada State wildlife agency. 0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:43.760 There are Facebook pages to give a little more context 0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:47.720 around them. Says that this page is dedicated to monitoring 0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:52.800 and publicizing the actions Nevada Department of Wildlife and the 0:31:53.880 --> 0:32:01.840 why is it cut off? Sorry, I guess they just 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:07.040 fail to write a full sentence, but gives you an idea. 0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:11.000 They're like they're watching everybody animals there. 0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:13.360 At a state agency at bear biologists could be engaged 0:32:13.360 --> 0:32:14.720 in a ton of different things. They could be doing 0:32:14.720 --> 0:32:17.160 and monitoring. They could be doing disease research, they could 0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:21.120 be doing population demographics distribution. But inevitably they're going to 0:32:21.200 --> 0:32:24.280 get rolled into dealing with problem bears as well, and 0:32:24.400 --> 0:32:28.640 oftentimes in states that have really high black bear populations. 0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:30.160 I'm not even saying this is going on here. I'm 0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:32.960 just clarifying for people in states that have really high 0:32:33.000 --> 0:32:37.120 black bear populations, it is so expensive in all times, 0:32:37.120 --> 0:32:42.280 oftentimes futile to relocate black bears. Oftentimes problem black bears 0:32:42.280 --> 0:32:44.800 will get euthanized because you could spend you could send 0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:47.920 someone on an eight hour drive in some direction to 0:32:48.040 --> 0:32:50.000 drop off the bear, but the once the bear is 0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:53.880 habituated and tuned into human food sources, there's nowhere you're 0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:55.800 going to put it where you're taking it out of action. 0:32:56.080 --> 0:32:59.400 It's also very expensive, consumes tons of time. You have 0:32:59.480 --> 0:33:02.000 very stable bear populations, so a lot of times someone 0:33:02.040 --> 0:33:04.440 has to make the calm the bears get euthanized. Okay, 0:33:05.920 --> 0:33:10.320 it's not work that anybody likes to do, but a 0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:13.160 bear biologist can get They're doing a lot of stuff 0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:16.920 to help enhance improve bear populations. They're also sometimes involved 0:33:16.920 --> 0:33:21.480 in lethal control. I'm not even that sits outside of 0:33:21.520 --> 0:33:24.560 what I'm talking about now, but this guy, Carl Lackey, 0:33:24.600 --> 0:33:29.600 So these guys start this Facebook page and targeting this individual, 0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:36.240 Carl Lackey. He sues him for defamation. The animal rights 0:33:36.320 --> 0:33:39.760 activists spend one hundred and fifty grand defending themselves on 0:33:39.920 --> 0:33:44.000 free speech grounds, okay, meaning that they host a Facebook 0:33:44.000 --> 0:33:48.360 page and people are making threatening remarks on this page, 0:33:48.400 --> 0:33:51.640 but ultimately, because of free speech issues, they can't be 0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:56.480 held responsible for what other people are saying. I'm not 0:33:56.680 --> 0:34:00.600 weighing in on, you know, I'm a free speech advocate. 0:34:00.640 --> 0:34:03.080 I'm not weighing in on that it was a right decision, 0:34:03.120 --> 0:34:05.560 wrong decision. What I'm weighing in on is that here 0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:10.880 you have a state bare biologist doing his job, okay, 0:34:11.880 --> 0:34:15.960 getting threatened and harassed by animal rights activists. And the 0:34:16.000 --> 0:34:18.479 long and short of it is they won their free 0:34:18.480 --> 0:34:22.520 speech case. Okay, they won it, that's fine, But now 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:27.000 this biologist is personally liable for the one hundred and 0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:31.040 fifty k that has been found liable for the one 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:34.400 hundred and fifty k that the people he was suing 0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:37.920 for defamation and harassment had to spend in their legal bills. 0:34:39.320 --> 0:34:42.799 Does it GoFundMe for the guy? If you can help out, 0:34:44.040 --> 0:34:45.479 he needs to make up this one hundred and fifty 0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:47.960 grand that he owes these people and again not weighing 0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:52.759 like I understand a platform isn't responsible for comments to 0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:56.279 get posted on their platform. Okay, who cares so much 0:34:56.360 --> 0:34:58.839 to help this guy out in his line of work 0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:01.960 and trying to defend him and his family from online 0:35:01.960 --> 0:35:04.200 harassment has incurred a massive bill. 0:35:04.440 --> 0:35:06.240 Yeah that's that's shitty. 0:35:06.400 --> 0:35:10.879 Yeah, that's right, and doing state wildlife work, Yeah, doing 0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:14.439 your job. It's insane that he's just supposed to suck 0:35:14.440 --> 0:35:16.200 it up and have these people start like trying to 0:35:16.200 --> 0:35:20.200 broadcast as whereabouts his image calling on people to do 0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:21.359 acts against him. 0:35:21.480 --> 0:35:28.120 I wonder if people like that feel good about themselves 0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:33.160 after giving this dude threats or whatever they did, and 0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:36.080 then making them pay him, you know, back one hundred 0:35:36.080 --> 0:35:38.960 and fifty thousand dollars. I wonder if they're like, yes. 0:35:38.840 --> 0:35:41.160 Yeah, probably because they've already arrived at some kind of 0:35:41.239 --> 0:35:45.000 mental calculus that an individual bear's life is more valuable 0:35:45.000 --> 0:35:48.279 than an individual human's life, or an individual not even that, 0:35:48.320 --> 0:35:50.799 and that a bear, the individual bears life is more 0:35:50.880 --> 0:35:55.279 valuable than the life of a public servant working on 0:35:55.400 --> 0:35:58.680 behalf of wildlife. So yeah, I imagine they've gotten their mentally, 0:35:59.800 --> 0:36:04.759 the o fund me is uh www dot go fund me, 0:36:05.280 --> 0:36:10.879 dot com. Here's where it gets complicated, sorry, dot com, 0:36:10.920 --> 0:36:16.680 slash f slash, Carl dash, lackey dash, bear dash, biologists 0:36:17.080 --> 0:36:17.560 type some. 0:36:17.600 --> 0:36:22.000 Version of that, go fund me and google his name. 0:36:22.160 --> 0:36:22.359 Yeah. 0:36:22.480 --> 0:36:24.799 Well, and one thing we got to remember is we 0:36:24.880 --> 0:36:27.440 need good people in the world to become biologists. And 0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:31.560 you know, this will de incentivize people to become biologists 0:36:31.560 --> 0:36:33.880 who would want to become a biologist. It'll be the 0:36:33.920 --> 0:36:37.280 situation we are with politicians, like, oh, the good people 0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:39.759 of the world don't want to be politicians. We need 0:36:39.800 --> 0:36:40.960 good biologists. 0:36:41.160 --> 0:36:45.080 Oh yeah, and have yeah, and and uh, you know, 0:36:45.840 --> 0:36:47.839 in our neighborhood right now, we're dealing with a bear 0:36:47.920 --> 0:36:54.880 that is really pushing people's tolerance. Like our whole neighborhood. 0:36:54.880 --> 0:36:58.439 We've got this whole tax exchange going and he's now 0:36:58.480 --> 0:37:01.360 in people's garages, you know, and like the bear is 0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:03.400 pushing people's tolerance. And at a point that bear is 0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:06.640 gonna wind up not alive. If someone from the state 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:08.960 agency needs to come out and trap that bear. It's 0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:11.759 not like they're like, yippie, I get to go, you know, 0:37:11.800 --> 0:37:14.279 I mean, it's just like they're like they've tried with 0:37:14.440 --> 0:37:20.960 this bear. They have tried their hardest to button up 0:37:20.960 --> 0:37:23.520 the situation and make the bear not a problem. They've 0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:26.360 at this point, they've got months into the into trying 0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:31.400 to help people help this bear by stop the cause. 0:37:32.040 --> 0:37:34.680 But at a point, probably maybe the way it's looking, 0:37:34.800 --> 0:37:37.319 something's gonna need something's gonna happen. And the fact that 0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:42.719 that person would become like an online target because they 0:37:42.800 --> 0:37:44.879 get sent out to do a thing a public safety issue, 0:37:44.880 --> 0:37:47.840 it's ridiculous. But again I'm not speaking to the particulars 0:37:47.840 --> 0:37:49.520 of why this guy got targeted. Go ahead and read 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:51.160 up on that on your own. I'm just pointing out 0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:52.399 the complex and he's a whole thing. 0:38:01.440 --> 0:38:07.160 Phelps you ready, Yeah, yep, Okay. So I was asked 0:38:07.160 --> 0:38:12.160 to come on talk about since September's right around the 0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:15.680 corner Archie, ELK kind of consumes September, at least in 0:38:15.680 --> 0:38:18.520 my life. So we're gonna talk about ELK bugles and 0:38:19.000 --> 0:38:22.480 kind of what they are, when to use them, and 0:38:22.480 --> 0:38:24.520 what I think about when we're trying to make those. 0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:28.520 So the first up is location bugles. This is a 0:38:28.600 --> 0:38:30.279 call when we're out in the woods. We're gonna use 0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:33.360 that ninety percent of the time while we're hunting and 0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:36.280 we're just looking to get a response from another bowl. 0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:38.520 I like to think of it as kind of that 0:38:38.520 --> 0:38:40.680 that game of Marco Polo. Right, I'm going to make 0:38:40.719 --> 0:38:43.719 a sound, It's it's non threatening. I'm just trying to 0:38:43.760 --> 0:38:47.360 get a response. So after my morning lasting session throughout 0:38:47.400 --> 0:38:50.719 the day, as I'm walking ridgelines trails, when i get 0:38:50.719 --> 0:38:52.759 to a new spot that I feel bul can hear me, 0:38:53.920 --> 0:38:54.560 I'll bugle. 0:38:56.120 --> 0:38:56.600 I in my. 0:38:56.600 --> 0:38:59.840 Opinion, it can't do much harm. And a lot of 0:38:59.880 --> 0:39:03.600 times people say you bogle too much, and and a 0:39:03.640 --> 0:39:05.399 lot of times I'll get six to eight hundred yards 0:39:05.400 --> 0:39:07.040 away when I was just two or three hundred yards 0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:08.960 away from a bull, and I'll finally get him to respond. 0:39:09.000 --> 0:39:12.000 So there's sometimes not any rhyme or reason when a 0:39:12.040 --> 0:39:16.040 bull here is here whin he'll elect to respond? And 0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:19.880 so what is a location bugle? And do the people 0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:21.879 that say you call too much? Do they kill more 0:39:21.920 --> 0:39:22.440 bulls than you? 0:39:24.200 --> 0:39:24.279 Not? 0:39:24.800 --> 0:39:26.239 Usually I don't want to. I don't want to be 0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:29.879 that guy. But you try not to not to talk 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:33.600 about that, And like there are times, there are times 0:39:33.640 --> 0:39:36.160 where you don't bigle a lot, but that's kind of 0:39:36.160 --> 0:39:39.600 our our go to so a location bugle, and some 0:39:39.640 --> 0:39:43.480 people we've in my opinion, we've coined terms that that 0:39:43.760 --> 0:39:47.400 we use to describe and Elk's vocals, you know, and 0:39:47.440 --> 0:39:49.440 so location bugle might be one thing here. This is 0:39:49.520 --> 0:39:51.279 kind of what we call it. So it's a a 0:39:51.280 --> 0:39:53.680 two to three note high pitched bugle that you're just 0:39:53.719 --> 0:39:58.800 trying to elicit that response. And so being high pitched, 0:39:58.840 --> 0:40:00.680 we're gonna apply a little bit of pressure if you're 0:40:00.719 --> 0:40:05.040 using a diaphragm, if you're using like our Easy Bugler system, 0:40:05.080 --> 0:40:07.600 you're gonna start with more pressure than you would on 0:40:07.680 --> 0:40:09.920 say a challenge bugle or a moan or you know, 0:40:10.000 --> 0:40:14.719 a deeper tone, and you're gonna just kind of blow 0:40:14.719 --> 0:40:17.399 into it very shortly two to three seconds. I want 0:40:17.400 --> 0:40:18.840 to be able to listen. A lot of times a 0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:21.960 bull is very quick to respond or and you may 0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:23.319 not hear it, you may not be able to tell 0:40:23.320 --> 0:40:25.360 what direction is, or you may miss it all together. So, 0:40:25.480 --> 0:40:27.799 in my opinion, a two to three note high pitched 0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:33.440 bugle lasting three seconds maximum. It's a clean bugle, non threatening. 0:40:33.760 --> 0:40:36.240 You don't add any groul, you don't add any resonance 0:40:36.239 --> 0:40:38.600 into it's just a high note looking to get a response. 0:40:40.080 --> 0:40:43.879 And you know you're doing a location bugle right when 0:40:43.920 --> 0:40:46.279 the volume and the tone and the resonance kind of 0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:49.840 rings your own ears, you don't. You know a lot 0:40:49.880 --> 0:40:52.000 of guys are like, I'm not getting as many responses. 0:40:52.880 --> 0:40:54.839 I like to be as loud as possible. I want 0:40:54.840 --> 0:40:57.480 that bugle to reach as many elk as possible, high 0:40:57.560 --> 0:41:00.880 pitched and short. And that's really the extent of it. 0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:03.879 And as much out calling as we do, and all 0:41:03.880 --> 0:41:06.960 these different types of bugles, grunch chuckles, challenge vehicles, you know, 0:41:07.000 --> 0:41:10.239 all the cow calling. I would say that once again, 0:41:10.320 --> 0:41:12.279 ninety percent of the time. This is the call I 0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:15.520 do all year long until we locate able. You want 0:41:15.520 --> 0:41:18.439 to rip one out for us, yeah, I'll turn away 0:41:18.440 --> 0:41:19.640 from the mic so I don't blow it out. 0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:22.799 But this is where our location beagle sounds like, tell 0:41:22.840 --> 0:41:23.760 us what you're using. 0:41:25.880 --> 0:41:26.920 This? That was a bad Uh. 0:41:27.239 --> 0:41:29.120 This is actually a new call that we're we're bringing 0:41:29.160 --> 0:41:30.880 out in twenty three, So it's going to be in 0:41:30.920 --> 0:41:32.960 a in our freedom pack. So I'll just I'll leave 0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:34.960 it there. But I had it sitting on my desk, 0:41:34.960 --> 0:41:37.160 so it's a brand new it's it's our amp diaphragm. 0:41:37.160 --> 0:41:40.319 It'd be really similar to like the Maverick in our lineup. 0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:42.360 And then you got what in your hand. 0:41:43.360 --> 0:41:45.799 So this is our metal Beagle tube. It's the one 0:41:45.800 --> 0:41:47.080 I've been using the last couple of years. 0:41:47.080 --> 0:41:49.440 We do have our new unleashed V tube, but this 0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:50.799 one had a cover on it and I didn't have 0:41:50.800 --> 0:41:52.200 to run downstairs and grab one. 0:41:53.040 --> 0:41:54.040 That's a well thought. 0:41:55.400 --> 0:41:57.600 Yeah, as you can tell, I'm a little I was 0:41:57.680 --> 0:41:58.400 a little bit lazy. 0:41:58.440 --> 0:41:59.920 I had a diaphragm on my desk and I had 0:41:59.880 --> 0:42:00.560 a tube on my. 0:42:00.600 --> 0:42:10.480 Dead nice and quick, just yep, just real quick. There 0:42:10.480 --> 0:42:12.520 were times like I've got examples like in the Bob 0:42:12.560 --> 0:42:15.759 Marshall and in some places where I would get a 0:42:15.800 --> 0:42:18.000 response like I couldn't figure out how the bull could 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:20.279 hear me that quick decide to make a call and 0:42:20.280 --> 0:42:22.799 then end it almost at the same time I was. 0:42:23.960 --> 0:42:26.680 And there's there's lots of examples where if I hadn't 0:42:26.719 --> 0:42:28.560 have been like a short bugle, I would have missed 0:42:28.560 --> 0:42:29.120 it all together. 0:42:29.640 --> 0:42:31.480 Yeah, I think it's a similar, dude, just trying to 0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:34.719 locate turkeys where you want something so fast and abrupt 0:42:35.560 --> 0:42:38.000 that you can go from making the noise to listening 0:42:38.040 --> 0:42:38.920 mode real quick. 0:42:39.680 --> 0:42:42.680 Yep, yep, missing it all together or a lot of times, 0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:46.480 and I talk about this a lot of like not 0:42:46.640 --> 0:42:50.839 buggling too much at them. There are times where if 0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:52.920 I can't tell the direction off of that first bigle, 0:42:52.920 --> 0:42:54.279 I'm like, dang it, now I got to call again, 0:42:54.360 --> 0:42:55.880 you know, so I know which direction to go or 0:42:55.920 --> 0:42:57.960 get the wind right. So I really want to try 0:42:58.000 --> 0:42:59.880 to get as much information out of that first bigle, 0:42:59.880 --> 0:43:02.200 like it back as I can without screwing it all up. 0:43:04.160 --> 0:43:07.759 So that's the next thing to keep mine. Yep. Yeah. 0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:10.320 And then this next bugle, which actually challenge. 0:43:10.760 --> 0:43:15.960 Ask a quick question, Jason, what do you hear uh 0:43:16.200 --> 0:43:18.880 bull elk doing location bugles? 0:43:19.640 --> 0:43:22.280 Yeah, yeah, if you if you go out in the morning, 0:43:22.320 --> 0:43:24.000 don't make a peep and you're in a good spot 0:43:24.040 --> 0:43:26.200 with you know, the bowl of Cali ratio is high, 0:43:26.320 --> 0:43:28.359 or there's multiple herds that have joined into you know, 0:43:28.600 --> 0:43:31.279 an overnight feed zone or whatever it is. You know, 0:43:31.320 --> 0:43:33.040 we kind of call them those little bit of retfests. 0:43:33.560 --> 0:43:35.640 They may be challenged back and forth, but you will 0:43:35.680 --> 0:43:39.359 have bulls just locating. We've been in and It usually 0:43:39.400 --> 0:43:41.840 happens at better units just because you're getting more action. 0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:44.960 But we've heard bulls like running up and down ridgelines 0:43:45.800 --> 0:43:48.120 obviously just looking for cows. When we've called them in. 0:43:48.480 --> 0:43:51.200 It's been probably your semi mature bulls, not quite big 0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:53.520 enough to have a heard, but but definitely you know, 0:43:53.560 --> 0:43:55.080 five and a half years or older, and they'll just 0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:57.560 run around looking for cows, locate bugleing, and they're very 0:43:57.640 --> 0:43:59.880 very talkative, and they locate a lot and so that 0:44:00.000 --> 0:44:02.600 that's really kind of what I relate that to, is well, 0:44:02.719 --> 0:44:05.600 real elker out there doing the same thing we've heard 0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:07.960 him do it. We've we've been across the canyon and 0:44:08.000 --> 0:44:09.759 literally heard a bull walk up a ridge or out 0:44:09.760 --> 0:44:12.480 a ridge line and beagle its way down. I'm just 0:44:12.480 --> 0:44:13.520 trying to pick up cows. 0:44:13.719 --> 0:44:16.600 You feel like he's listening for bulls to respond or 0:44:16.680 --> 0:44:18.120 cows to respond. 0:44:18.440 --> 0:44:20.879 So cows to respond or cows to come to him. 0:44:20.920 --> 0:44:22.640 Like a lot of times when I've been able to 0:44:22.680 --> 0:44:25.719 observe like an openings or across the canyon. You know, 0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:27.719 the way that that nature works is that buwll of 0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:29.959 bugle and then any cow that's looking, you know, because 0:44:29.960 --> 0:44:31.799 the cow will choose the bull that she wants to 0:44:32.080 --> 0:44:35.280 reproduce with. That cow will just walk to that bowl 0:44:35.400 --> 0:44:37.600 and go check him out and see if he's you know, 0:44:37.600 --> 0:44:41.799 if he's the one so so in nature, that's how 0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:44.160 it's working. That bowl is running up and down ridges 0:44:44.239 --> 0:44:46.439 or outridges, and those cows are going towards him. 0:44:48.239 --> 0:44:50.240 Thank you. Yep. 0:44:51.360 --> 0:44:53.560 So this next bugle, once we've located a bowl, now 0:44:53.600 --> 0:44:55.040 we're going to go into challenge beagles. And this is 0:44:55.040 --> 0:44:57.680 where it gets a little bit fuzzy on like what 0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:02.520 people consider a challenge bugle. You there's screams, there's you know, 0:45:02.560 --> 0:45:05.200 there's chuckles, there's bark, screams, there's all of this stuff. 0:45:05.200 --> 0:45:07.600 Elk will do to kind of show aggression. But what 0:45:07.719 --> 0:45:09.560 I look at in the challenge bugles, when I get 0:45:09.560 --> 0:45:12.160 in close, I've got the wind right I have. You 0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:15.960 have to get within that that threat zone. Especially if 0:45:15.960 --> 0:45:18.200 you're hunting herd bulls a satellite bowl, you've got a 0:45:18.200 --> 0:45:19.960 little more leniency on how close you have to get. 0:45:19.960 --> 0:45:21.600 But if you're gonna steal a bull or get him 0:45:21.600 --> 0:45:24.120 to peel away from his cows, you have to get close. 0:45:24.160 --> 0:45:26.520 So we're talking getting in within a hundred you know, 0:45:26.640 --> 0:45:29.960 even closer if possible, wherever the train and the and 0:45:30.000 --> 0:45:32.400 the vegetation allows. But then we're gonna switch the challenge, Bugles. 0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:35.040 And and when I switch to a challenge, Bugle. 0:45:36.080 --> 0:45:38.959 Just I want to comment, have time I spent hunting 0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:43.040 with you? Is your location? Bugles. I don't want to 0:45:43.040 --> 0:45:45.600 say you're flipping about them, but you're just kind of 0:45:45.760 --> 0:45:47.880 looking for a good spot where you can hear, you know, 0:45:48.000 --> 0:45:49.960 maybe see you around a little bit and do them. 0:45:50.440 --> 0:45:53.680 But when you go into the mode of preparing to 0:45:53.760 --> 0:46:01.279 do that challenge, Bule, Bugle, you do not take that lightly. No, No, 0:46:01.320 --> 0:46:05.480 I mean you are like extremely thoughtful about the wind, 0:46:05.960 --> 0:46:10.160 where you're gonna want to be, the topography probably where 0:46:10.200 --> 0:46:16.280 exactly is that thing? How might it approach? Yeah? What shot? 0:46:16.320 --> 0:46:19.560 What shot avenues do you have? How are you going 0:46:19.640 --> 0:46:22.239 to be how are you going to move to cover 0:46:22.480 --> 0:46:26.640 or utilize cover like plan B I mean you are 0:46:26.680 --> 0:46:29.520 doing a lot of chess by that point. Yeah. 0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:32.480 I mean to you know something that everybody's maybe seen 0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:35.160 our season ten episode in New Mexico. Both are bulls. 0:46:35.440 --> 0:46:37.359 We got very very tight. We kind of pushed into 0:46:37.360 --> 0:46:39.160 a spot on yours where we couldn't shoot, but we 0:46:39.200 --> 0:46:41.319 needed to be that tight and we kind of readjusted, 0:46:41.360 --> 0:46:43.400 you know, my bawl. We locate him and then we 0:46:43.480 --> 0:46:45.920 really would we walk for an hour without making a peep, 0:46:46.040 --> 0:46:48.399 like we put a spot on on X. We went 0:46:48.440 --> 0:46:50.000 all the way around him to get the wind right 0:46:50.120 --> 0:46:52.279 and then we literally didn't beagle at him or talk 0:46:52.320 --> 0:46:54.040 to him again. He didn't make a peep either. We 0:46:54.080 --> 0:46:56.040 just had to go on our gut. But we didn't 0:46:56.040 --> 0:46:57.920 make a biegle until he was eighty yards away. And 0:46:57.960 --> 0:46:59.480 I think you be agled a couple of times. I'd 0:46:59.440 --> 0:47:02.080 be agle a couple times, and and that bowl literally 0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:03.560 had to get up out of his bed and walk 0:47:03.760 --> 0:47:05.359 thirty yards for me to get a shot. And so 0:47:05.400 --> 0:47:09.200 it's very calculated before we go use these challenge beagles. 0:47:09.200 --> 0:47:11.040 And like you said, I don't hold anything back. If 0:47:11.040 --> 0:47:15.480 I did all of these other calculations right and did 0:47:15.480 --> 0:47:17.000 what I and I feel like I've got a bowl 0:47:17.040 --> 0:47:21.200 with that right temperament. Yeah, we we're gonna kind of 0:47:21.280 --> 0:47:23.399 unleash everything we've got. And that's really what I'm going 0:47:23.400 --> 0:47:25.719 with on this challenge Bagle, is I'm gonna have a 0:47:25.719 --> 0:47:28.120 little more growl In the beginning of my my Bugle, 0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:30.840 I'm gonna kind of open up my vocal cords and 0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:33.319 really kind of get some rasp in the middle. I'm 0:47:33.360 --> 0:47:36.000 gonna end and and kind of kind of scream at him, 0:47:36.000 --> 0:47:38.040 and I usually add some grunts to the end of 0:47:38.040 --> 0:47:40.680 my Challenge Beagle. It's really just kind of throwing the 0:47:40.880 --> 0:47:42.920 entire kitchen scenk at them to let him know that 0:47:43.080 --> 0:47:44.880 I'm here to kind of take over your area or 0:47:44.960 --> 0:47:47.279 I'm in your zone and you're either gonna lose your 0:47:47.280 --> 0:47:49.439 cows or you're gonna come check me out and see 0:47:49.440 --> 0:47:51.959 if we're gonna, you know, if we're at. 0:47:51.880 --> 0:47:54.560 Lockhorns, or we're gonna breed him. 0:47:54.880 --> 0:47:59.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's really what we're going after 0:48:00.080 --> 0:48:03.120 on the Challenge Bugle. And a lot of times, you know, 0:48:03.160 --> 0:48:05.399 we could shock in awe whatever you want to call it. 0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:07.839 A lot of times if you get close enough and 0:48:07.880 --> 0:48:10.440 you you haven't made another call until you get there, 0:48:10.520 --> 0:48:13.320 you really give that bowl no other chance besides coming 0:48:13.360 --> 0:48:16.080 and you know, dealing with you. You've got too close 0:48:16.120 --> 0:48:19.080 to his cows, he can't take him and run. And 0:48:19.120 --> 0:48:22.680 that's what we typically will do when we go to 0:48:22.760 --> 0:48:25.040 Challenge Bugle, and so I can I can demonstrate kind 0:48:25.080 --> 0:48:27.359 of what my initial challenge bugle is, and a lot 0:48:27.360 --> 0:48:30.120 of times this bull will answer right back. Or we've 0:48:30.120 --> 0:48:32.000 painted the picture where we may let a cow call 0:48:32.040 --> 0:48:34.960 out right prior to our challenge bugle to kind of 0:48:35.000 --> 0:48:37.320 paint the scene that there's a cow that may be 0:48:37.440 --> 0:48:40.000 one of his or a cow that came to his bugle, 0:48:40.040 --> 0:48:42.680 but now there's this other bowl very close willing. 0:48:42.400 --> 0:48:46.040 To take care of her. So this is what my 0:48:46.080 --> 0:48:47.320 typical challenge, bugle. 0:48:47.400 --> 0:49:01.160 Sound like, little bit more to it, a little bit 0:49:01.280 --> 0:49:04.520 or ask and you're really not holding anything back. You know, 0:49:04.560 --> 0:49:06.600 a lot of guys ask me, you know when when 0:49:06.600 --> 0:49:08.160 we're at shows or when they're talking to me, like, hey, 0:49:08.200 --> 0:49:12.319 I really want to a bull call that isn't as 0:49:12.440 --> 0:49:15.959 threatening or it's a smaller bowl. And I've been around 0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:18.120 a lot of great callers that are just as loud 0:49:18.160 --> 0:49:20.880 as me. And when you're in the woods, the comparison 0:49:21.160 --> 0:49:23.319 of somebody that's loud on an elk call that we 0:49:23.360 --> 0:49:26.400 think versus a real bowl, like it's the the real 0:49:26.400 --> 0:49:29.080 elk is always exponentially louder. So in my opinion, you 0:49:29.120 --> 0:49:33.040 can't overblow these calls. You can't be too loud, So 0:49:33.080 --> 0:49:35.439 we we just give it everything we've got. Where we're loud, 0:49:35.440 --> 0:49:38.400 we're in their face, we're pointing the bugle tubes at them, 0:49:38.480 --> 0:49:39.920 and that's kind of what I think is as a 0:49:40.000 --> 0:49:42.200 challenge bugle. And those are the two that I probably 0:49:42.280 --> 0:49:45.319 use ninety five percent of the time when we're out 0:49:45.320 --> 0:49:47.480 there hunting. And then there's those what I would consider 0:49:47.520 --> 0:49:50.799 kind of the third category, uh, which the first one 0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:54.760 that I'm going to say is accessory bugles or accessory noises. 0:49:54.800 --> 0:49:58.600 And raking is one of those sounds that isn't what 0:49:58.719 --> 0:50:01.839 necessarily in you know, coming from a call, but it's 0:50:01.840 --> 0:50:03.959 something that we can all do. And there's some great 0:50:03.960 --> 0:50:06.000 elk hunters out there that rake more than they call, 0:50:06.239 --> 0:50:09.600 and so we typically always add that in to our 0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:13.160 calling scenarios. It adds a ton of realism and elk 0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:17.160 just you know it. I feel it turns our temperature 0:50:17.200 --> 0:50:19.400 up a little bit, adds some some of that aggressiveness, 0:50:19.440 --> 0:50:21.480 and it's a sign of the bulls mark in his territory. 0:50:21.480 --> 0:50:24.520 You know, he's put in his scent and marking those trees. 0:50:24.560 --> 0:50:27.640 And so I think raking is something that should be 0:50:27.680 --> 0:50:31.600 included in almost every call in and then you've got 0:50:31.600 --> 0:50:33.680 all these other sounds that elk will make. You know, 0:50:33.760 --> 0:50:36.640 and I'm not gonna get into the to the intricacies 0:50:36.640 --> 0:50:39.120 of whether what I consider a chuckle is different than 0:50:39.160 --> 0:50:41.160 a grunt. So you got like chuckles, which you usually 0:50:41.160 --> 0:50:44.600 typically like very quick and almost ape like sounds. You've 0:50:44.600 --> 0:50:47.040 got grunts, which what I just did it's more elk sound, 0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:51.080 more of a of a slower paced, more elky. You've 0:50:51.120 --> 0:50:53.439 got screams, so there's a lot of times where bulls 0:50:53.480 --> 0:50:55.560 will get madder and like a screaming match, it's very 0:50:55.600 --> 0:50:58.200 short burst to you know, two seconds max. Where it's 0:50:58.320 --> 0:51:01.960 very raspy and just kind of a scream. Bulls a 0:51:01.960 --> 0:51:03.600 lot of times if you do make a sound and 0:51:03.600 --> 0:51:05.879 they'll see you, they'll bark at you, and then you've 0:51:05.880 --> 0:51:08.600 got all those moans that that they'll make as there 0:51:08.840 --> 0:51:13.200 is there following cows or even like glunking is those 0:51:13.200 --> 0:51:15.920 bulls are right on a hot cow as they're pushing 0:51:15.920 --> 0:51:17.520 the cal around, and usually if you can hear glunky, 0:51:17.560 --> 0:51:20.560 you know you're within eighty two hundred yards. And those 0:51:20.560 --> 0:51:23.399 are kind of those accessory sounds that we always throw 0:51:23.480 --> 0:51:26.520 in the situations to add more realism. 0:51:27.040 --> 0:51:30.200 Would you say, like, uh, I didn't hear you say 0:51:30.239 --> 0:51:32.880 like a lip ball in there? Would you say, like, 0:51:33.000 --> 0:51:37.480 that's like the most aggressive, like because I've heard that before. 0:51:38.400 --> 0:51:40.760 You know what I'm saying, Like, is that like the 0:51:40.760 --> 0:51:44.880 the high end of all this most being most suggressive 0:51:44.920 --> 0:51:45.680 for calling. 0:51:45.600 --> 0:51:47.200 That's a that's a great question, And a lot of 0:51:47.239 --> 0:51:51.160 times lip balls, I'd use a lot of mimicry. So 0:51:51.200 --> 0:51:52.960 if the bull I'm calling at me is gonna lip 0:51:52.960 --> 0:51:55.200 ball in this challenge bugle, I'm gonna do that. If 0:51:55.200 --> 0:51:58.080 the bull that I'm calling in wants to, you know, 0:51:58.160 --> 0:52:00.799 do a three second challenge bugle with four runts, I'm 0:52:00.800 --> 0:52:03.080 gonna mimic him exactly. And one thing I really love 0:52:03.160 --> 0:52:05.760 to do that really seems to get them more fired 0:52:05.840 --> 0:52:08.399 up is if I start my bugle about halfway through 0:52:08.440 --> 0:52:10.799 theirs and I don't let them finish their bugle. It 0:52:10.840 --> 0:52:13.360 seems to be a way to just like, you know, 0:52:13.360 --> 0:52:14.880 piss them off a little bit more. And so we 0:52:14.960 --> 0:52:17.000 use a lot of mimicry. But yeah, lipball is a 0:52:17.000 --> 0:52:20.520 great way to add to the challenge bugle. You know, 0:52:20.560 --> 0:52:22.759 one thing I've noticed is the further south you go, 0:52:23.280 --> 0:52:26.319 the higher percentage of lip bowling type bulls there are 0:52:26.400 --> 0:52:28.480 the further north you are, it doesn't you know, there 0:52:28.480 --> 0:52:30.959 may be more chuckles or grunts, Like can you crank 0:52:30.960 --> 0:52:32.359 out a couple of these noises real quick? 0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:33.040 Yeah? 0:52:33.080 --> 0:52:34.799 So I want to I want to tell you something 0:52:34.800 --> 0:52:38.040 to that I don't know if I told you about yet. Uh, 0:52:38.320 --> 0:52:43.719 you're talking about thrash and brush right, yep. One. I 0:52:43.760 --> 0:52:47.640 was haunting Moose with Clay last year in Alaska. We 0:52:47.640 --> 0:52:50.880 were going down a hill on the last day of 0:52:50.880 --> 0:52:53.680 the season. We were going down a hill to go 0:52:53.760 --> 0:52:55.560 to a bowl that was about a mile away that 0:52:55.600 --> 0:52:59.840 we just saw, and we were going down the hill fast. 0:53:00.120 --> 0:53:02.320 It was like evening on the last day. We're running 0:53:02.360 --> 0:53:05.920 down the hill trying to get to a place, hoping 0:53:05.960 --> 0:53:09.120 to hit an opening where we might be able to 0:53:09.160 --> 0:53:13.040 call from. But it was just dense thicket, just like 0:53:13.200 --> 0:53:17.839 just never ending aspen. As we ran down that hill, 0:53:17.880 --> 0:53:19.759 We're making so much noise because it was just like 0:53:20.200 --> 0:53:23.839 there's nothing to lose at that point. We ran down 0:53:23.840 --> 0:53:26.279 that hill and stopped and realized that bowl we never 0:53:26.360 --> 0:53:31.640 called that bowl was coming. Two bulls were coming up 0:53:31.680 --> 0:53:35.840 that hill and met us dead on just because of 0:53:35.840 --> 0:53:38.640 the noise we're making coming down that hill, yep, And 0:53:38.680 --> 0:53:40.200 we were making a tell of a lot of noise 0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:43.080 climbing over all this burned down junk, all this burned 0:53:43.120 --> 0:53:47.400 down spruced it was growing back as an aspen. Just smash, crash, bam. 0:53:47.640 --> 0:53:51.040 It probably sounded like a hell of a fight. And 0:53:51.120 --> 0:53:53.719 we stopped to call and realized that they're standing there 0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:57.759 like they're looking for us based off that noise. Yep. 0:53:58.520 --> 0:54:00.360 You know, when we were in New Mexico out at 0:54:00.360 --> 0:54:02.719 a couple of days prior, and one day I was 0:54:02.800 --> 0:54:04.200 trying to get through an area I knew there were 0:54:04.239 --> 0:54:07.040 elk and just walking through the grass, I had to 0:54:07.080 --> 0:54:09.200 hang out behind a tree for about fifteen minutes because 0:54:09.200 --> 0:54:11.440 that bold chased me down the hill just hearing my 0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:14.280 feet walk through the grass. And so my dad always 0:54:14.360 --> 0:54:15.799 kind of joked with me. And we grew up in 0:54:15.800 --> 0:54:18.080 a rifle hunting elk family, where you know, they go 0:54:18.120 --> 0:54:20.440 out and hunting their white new balances so they can 0:54:20.520 --> 0:54:22.520 be absolutely silent. You know, that's the type of elk 0:54:22.600 --> 0:54:24.920 hunting I grew up with. My Dad's like, you know what, Jason, 0:54:24.960 --> 0:54:27.040 you're not real quiet. You're meant to be an archvl hunter. 0:54:27.080 --> 0:54:28.760 And it really did kind of play to my favorite 0:54:28.760 --> 0:54:31.920 because I'm I'm stepping on sticks and cracking brush and 0:54:32.280 --> 0:54:34.279 it just kind of works for an archvl hunter, you know, 0:54:34.360 --> 0:54:37.359 cause an eight hundred pound animal in the landscape, they 0:54:37.360 --> 0:54:39.520 can be whispered quiet at times, but for the majority 0:54:39.560 --> 0:54:41.880 of the time they're gonna make noise, which you just 0:54:41.920 --> 0:54:45.319 add that realism into it. And elk Elk definitely take 0:54:45.520 --> 0:54:47.200 note on the noises that they're hearing. 0:54:47.280 --> 0:54:49.200 Is yes, especially when if you've ever listened to a 0:54:49.239 --> 0:54:52.040 half dozen of them playing grab ass on a steep slope, 0:54:52.080 --> 0:54:52.800 it's loud. 0:54:53.600 --> 0:54:56.120 Oh that's one of my favorite things ever. You're sitting 0:54:56.120 --> 0:54:58.440 there eating lunch or something and you hear that, you 0:54:58.480 --> 0:55:02.200 can I can just picture it that that downfall branch 0:55:02.320 --> 0:55:05.840 go pop and you know, and you're like that was 0:55:05.880 --> 0:55:07.000 a big animal, you know. 0:55:07.360 --> 0:55:10.280 Yeah, yeah, so raking. 0:55:11.360 --> 0:55:12.879 I can't make that sound in here. 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:15.799 But you know, I always recommend you get a big stick, 0:55:15.840 --> 0:55:17.960 and everybody wants to grab a little twig, Like, get 0:55:18.000 --> 0:55:20.279 something that's robust, not going to break on you through it. 0:55:20.360 --> 0:55:24.480 And the other thing is like yeah before he sets 0:55:24.480 --> 0:55:26.359 to it, Yeah yeah, I mean. 0:55:26.320 --> 0:55:29.480 Yeah, if you're your knuckles and fingers aren't bloody. You're 0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:31.120 not making enough noise and trying. 0:55:32.719 --> 0:55:34.960 Yeah, and I like to I like to be as 0:55:35.000 --> 0:55:36.959 realistic as possible. So I try to find a couple 0:55:36.960 --> 0:55:39.120 of limbs, you know, from two feet up the tree 0:55:39.120 --> 0:55:40.799 to four feet and you just kind of rattle back 0:55:40.800 --> 0:55:42.600 and forth, you know, you hit the brush and you 0:55:42.680 --> 0:55:44.879 hit the top limb, hit the bottom limb. I don't 0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:46.920 know if it matters that much, MAYI There are times 0:55:46.920 --> 0:55:48.880 where I want to break a bunch of small, small 0:55:48.920 --> 0:55:49.640 limbs just. 0:55:49.520 --> 0:55:50.279 To add to it. 0:55:50.600 --> 0:55:53.480 You know, you can kick the ground, but you know raking, 0:55:53.520 --> 0:55:56.319 that's that's it's easy. But yeah, like you really need 0:55:56.320 --> 0:55:58.320 to get into it and and picking up a bigger 0:55:58.320 --> 0:56:01.040 stick make sure that you can get through that. Chuckles, 0:56:01.360 --> 0:56:03.040 like I said, are a little more ape like, So 0:56:03.040 --> 0:56:05.279 a lot of times you'll get these on the end 0:56:05.280 --> 0:56:08.040 of a bugle around here where I've got roosevelts in 0:56:08.040 --> 0:56:09.640 my backyard. I grew up with a lot of our 0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:11.839 bulls chuckling and grunting more so than like the high 0:56:11.840 --> 0:56:14.880 notes that we're talking about. But here's what a chuckle er. 0:56:14.920 --> 0:56:23.680 In my opinion, a chuckle sounds like so a little 0:56:23.760 --> 0:56:26.480 less elk sound a little more ape like, where the 0:56:26.520 --> 0:56:28.080 grunts are a little more drawn out. They get a 0:56:28.080 --> 0:56:30.280 little bit more of that high pitch from from the bowl. 0:56:30.760 --> 0:56:31.000 Yeah. 0:56:31.040 --> 0:56:34.400 Man, and his belly gets into it. Yeah, yeah, like 0:56:34.719 --> 0:56:40.040 his belly is like bouncing, you know, not his belly 0:56:40.120 --> 0:56:43.200 might be bouncing. I know that's between him and his wife. 0:56:43.440 --> 0:56:44.879 I'm talking about they have the bull. 0:56:47.040 --> 0:56:55.279 So so here's what I would consider a grunt. It's 0:56:55.320 --> 0:56:59.399 a little more that elkie sound. Scream like I say, 0:56:59.680 --> 0:57:02.440 two two and a half second, real raspy, real short. 0:57:02.480 --> 0:57:04.520 And usually when you get a bowld. 0:57:04.320 --> 0:57:06.720 To scream back at you, his temper is very high 0:57:06.760 --> 0:57:08.920 and we usually have real good success with calling them 0:57:08.920 --> 0:57:16.760 in and if they scream, I'll typically scream m So 0:57:16.800 --> 0:57:18.680 it's a scream and then you got your barks, and 0:57:18.720 --> 0:57:20.600 a lot of times you'll when you do hear a bark, 0:57:20.640 --> 0:57:23.400 it's it's about my second least favorite sound to hear 0:57:23.480 --> 0:57:27.120 in the elk wood, aside from wolves howling. But barks 0:57:27.360 --> 0:57:31.320 usually they have seen seen something they don't like or 0:57:31.360 --> 0:57:33.680 heard something they don't like, but they can't necessarily get 0:57:33.680 --> 0:57:37.600 wind on you. So a bark's really a come show 0:57:37.640 --> 0:57:39.520 me your you know, come show yourself or I'm out 0:57:39.520 --> 0:57:41.840 of here, I'm on alert. But and then what we 0:57:41.880 --> 0:57:43.960 will do in response is will bark back at him, 0:57:43.960 --> 0:57:46.360 because you're basically saying, well, I seen and heard something 0:57:46.360 --> 0:57:49.720 I don't like. You show yourself. And in twenty nineteen 0:57:49.760 --> 0:57:51.320 when I was in Wyoming, I have a bowl bark 0:57:51.320 --> 0:57:53.480 at me, and I bark back at him and he 0:57:53.560 --> 0:57:55.040 kind of comes trotting out in the middle of open 0:57:55.040 --> 0:57:56.800 and I was able to get a shot. So always 0:57:56.800 --> 0:57:59.400 be if you get bark at, bark right back at him. 0:57:59.400 --> 0:58:03.120 But it's just a quick blast of you know, it's 0:58:03.160 --> 0:58:04.479 it's a come show yourself sound. 0:58:08.640 --> 0:58:10.760 So you get like he's nervous, and you might set 0:58:10.800 --> 0:58:14.400 him at ease by by doing it back like oh 0:58:14.440 --> 0:58:17.360 there's another help. Yeah, yeah, there's you can hold him 0:58:17.400 --> 0:58:22.280 for a long time with their warning cry is you 0:58:22.320 --> 0:58:25.720 can turn the tide on antelope big time on prong 0:58:25.760 --> 0:58:28.400 horns with their own warning call back at. 0:58:28.360 --> 0:58:30.960 Him, get him to hang out. 0:58:31.040 --> 0:58:33.880 They'll they'll start coming more if you start. If you 0:58:34.000 --> 0:58:35.880 hide and start doing it back at him, it just 0:58:35.960 --> 0:58:37.360 really gets their curiosity. 0:58:37.440 --> 0:58:39.880 Can you do that? And that's a weird Yeah, it's 0:58:39.880 --> 0:58:40.160 like a. 0:58:41.600 --> 0:58:43.160 Yeah, I mean I'm not good at it, but man, 0:58:43.200 --> 0:58:46.120 you can you can take one. It's gonna be out 0:58:46.320 --> 0:58:51.200 and and he'll start coming. He'll be he'll like turn 0:58:51.240 --> 0:58:55.080 around and start going back your direction. I don't think 0:58:55.080 --> 0:58:58.240 they hear it a lot from people, for sure. 0:58:58.480 --> 0:59:02.320 All that out phil idea, Yeah. 0:59:02.200 --> 0:59:04.960 Right, and then uh, you like the mones and stuff, 0:59:05.520 --> 0:59:07.440 you know, but if they bark, usually what happens. If 0:59:07.480 --> 0:59:09.440 they don't see what they like, they're gonna run out 0:59:09.440 --> 0:59:11.400 the ridge and scare every elkre let, every elk in 0:59:11.440 --> 0:59:14.040 the whole entire country know that they and they bark 0:59:14.160 --> 0:59:17.040 for you know, until you can't see them anymore. So 0:59:17.080 --> 0:59:19.160 it's best to get them calm back down. And then 0:59:19.200 --> 0:59:21.400 mones are just those sounds as he's running his herd 0:59:21.960 --> 0:59:23.560 as we get in tight, you know, you'll hear him 0:59:23.600 --> 0:59:26.280 making little sounds that you can't hear from very far away, 0:59:26.280 --> 0:59:29.280 and we just add those in for for realism. This 0:59:29.360 --> 0:59:31.160 is kind of what a moan just real light on 0:59:31.200 --> 0:59:40.480 the latex. So as they're pushing cows around, they're just 0:59:40.480 --> 0:59:43.480 making small little noises that just at like I say, 0:59:43.560 --> 0:59:46.240 just you're just adding to the realism. They're more accessory sounds. 0:59:46.280 --> 0:59:49.640 But there are times when we'll throw those in just 0:59:49.680 --> 0:59:50.720 to be part. 0:59:50.960 --> 0:59:53.760 I feel like I kind of hear that too sometimes, Jason, 0:59:53.800 --> 0:59:57.160 when they're they're sleeping, when they're or they're just in 0:59:57.200 --> 1:00:00.760 their beds right like almost like a moan. It's like 1:00:00.800 --> 1:00:03.000 a real quiet like little yep. 1:00:03.560 --> 1:00:03.720 You know. 1:00:03.800 --> 1:00:07.040 One thing that they do. It takes a fairly trained ear. 1:00:07.120 --> 1:00:10.080 But location bugles. We talked about him being high pitch 1:00:10.400 --> 1:00:13.320 and sharp and to the point, like a betted bull. 1:00:13.640 --> 1:00:15.880 To a trained ear, we can we can pick out 1:00:15.960 --> 1:00:17.800 usually when it's a bedded boil. Yeah, the time of 1:00:17.880 --> 1:00:20.200 day usually helps us do that as well. But you'll 1:00:20.200 --> 1:00:22.400 know if a bull's on his feet versus betted, especially 1:00:22.400 --> 1:00:24.840 if you fold that same bowl all morning, his his 1:00:25.000 --> 1:00:28.880 bugle cuts to about half intensity. It's a real lazy bugle. 1:00:29.200 --> 1:00:30.760 And so you can, you know, start to tell when 1:00:30.800 --> 1:00:33.200 that bull's betted. Everything gets a little bit softer and 1:00:33.280 --> 1:00:34.320 quieter and deeper. 1:00:36.360 --> 1:00:39.240 All right, Phelps you good man? Yeah, yeah, thanks for 1:00:39.280 --> 1:00:42.120 having me on. Yeah man, So everybody as gearing up. 1:00:42.160 --> 1:00:45.880 Check out Phelps game calls. Uh, just a true Elk 1:00:45.920 --> 1:00:50.919 call and mastermind elk great elk call maker, great communicator. 1:00:50.960 --> 1:00:52.680 He'll give you all of his hot spots. Just hit 1:00:52.760 --> 1:00:58.320 him up. Off Jason, we're gonna have Auction Off Phelps 1:00:58.360 --> 1:01:01.960 is on x password at the Auction House Bodies. 1:01:03.040 --> 1:01:05.760 If you want to listen to like full I don't 1:01:05.800 --> 1:01:08.160 know how long the show is usually Jason forty five 1:01:08.200 --> 1:01:10.520 minutes an hour. Cutting the Distance Yep. 1:01:11.160 --> 1:01:13.680 Yeah, but you can go. Yeah, we're we're just getting ready. 1:01:13.720 --> 1:01:16.000 Dirk's gonna jump on as a as a co host 1:01:16.080 --> 1:01:18.160 here by time this drop, So we're gonna for the 1:01:18.160 --> 1:01:20.400 next couple of months. You're gonna get as much elk 1:01:20.440 --> 1:01:22.040 hunting information as you you want to do. 1:01:22.160 --> 1:01:22.200 That. 1:01:22.360 --> 1:01:25.440 That's that's a great heads up. So thanks for the reminder, Yahni, 1:01:25.560 --> 1:01:30.720 go listen to Cutting the Distance so hosted by Jason Phelps, 1:01:30.720 --> 1:01:33.360 Dirt Durham. There that that used to be bi weekly, 1:01:33.400 --> 1:01:36.919 it's not weekly. And when these boys going to elk 1:01:37.000 --> 1:01:38.920 mode this time of year, it's just gonna be all 1:01:38.920 --> 1:01:41.520 elk all the time. So you'll you'll you'll learn more 1:01:41.560 --> 1:01:45.120 than you can remember by checking that out. And again, 1:01:45.200 --> 1:01:49.240 man like just lifelong elk hunter, grew up hunting the 1:01:49.240 --> 1:01:53.720 hardest elk on the planet in the Pacific Northwest. Phenomenal calls. 1:01:54.040 --> 1:01:55.160 Thanks a lot Phelps. 1:01:55.400 --> 1:01:57.160 Thanks, thanks guys. 1:01:57.880 --> 1:02:03.040 All right, Dave Smith, Yes, why uh give me the 1:02:03.040 --> 1:02:06.080 crash course on how DSD came into existence. 1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:10.600 The short, not not so boring version. It's all boring. 1:02:11.720 --> 1:02:17.000 The crash course is I was massively into goose hunting 1:02:17.600 --> 1:02:21.640 and I didn't have any decoys. I couldn't find any 1:02:21.680 --> 1:02:23.680 decoys that were working the way that I thought that they. 1:02:23.560 --> 1:02:27.440 Should back up way more than that, Okay, I mean 1:02:27.480 --> 1:02:30.320 I feel like I was born, I was an anemic child. 1:02:30.440 --> 1:02:33.840 I was born. I was born in Cottonwood, Idaho, and okay, 1:02:34.400 --> 1:02:37.480 born in Idaho. Well, so yeah, I was born in Idaho. Yeah, 1:02:37.480 --> 1:02:41.400 I mean my I had an older brother. I say 1:02:41.440 --> 1:02:43.680 had because he did pass away when I was nineteen. 1:02:43.920 --> 1:02:46.280 When he was nineteen, I was seventeen, and he and 1:02:46.320 --> 1:02:49.120 I we dreamed about goose hunting our entire lives, Like 1:02:49.160 --> 1:02:53.240 we used to literally like drop you know, pictures of 1:02:53.320 --> 1:02:54.680 goose hunting with crayons. 1:02:54.760 --> 1:02:57.880 So when most kids have drawn army tanks and monster tracks, 1:02:57.920 --> 1:02:59.360 you guys are growing goose hunting. 1:02:59.040 --> 1:03:01.360 Pretty much, and it's it's kind of a weird thing. 1:03:01.400 --> 1:03:05.240 I mean, like our dad hunted, but then he was 1:03:05.280 --> 1:03:09.320 a great, great archer, but he hunted mostly before we 1:03:09.640 --> 1:03:12.400 were born. But my brother and I, we both had 1:03:12.440 --> 1:03:16.280 the hunting gene, you know, for sure, we could just tell. 1:03:16.680 --> 1:03:18.920 And for some reason we were just obsessed with geeese, 1:03:19.040 --> 1:03:21.560 even though we didn't we didn't really have any exposure 1:03:21.600 --> 1:03:24.280 to goose hunting, and we didn't even have any geeese around, 1:03:24.440 --> 1:03:29.640 and so all of a sudden we started getting geese. 1:03:29.560 --> 1:03:31.960 Because you're you're old enough that goose numbers weren't what 1:03:32.000 --> 1:03:32.280 they are. 1:03:33.160 --> 1:03:36.200 Yeah, So where I live in the Willammett Valley of Oregon, 1:03:36.240 --> 1:03:40.000 there's they really the only goose was the dusky Canada goose, 1:03:40.440 --> 1:03:43.640 so and those and so in the sixties, there was 1:03:43.680 --> 1:03:48.120 an earthquake in Alaska that uplifted the delta where they 1:03:48.240 --> 1:03:51.400 where they nest, and then all of a sudden, mammalion 1:03:51.440 --> 1:03:56.320 predators could access it. So the numbers of Dusky Canada geese, 1:03:56.400 --> 1:03:57.840 you know, really crashed. 1:03:58.360 --> 1:04:02.760 So there was hunt a spot. I have haunted a spot. 1:04:03.160 --> 1:04:06.840 Haunt I have haunted a spot in Alaska that was 1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:11.960 hay Fields and it recessed and became marsh in the 1:04:11.960 --> 1:04:12.640 same earthquake. 1:04:13.000 --> 1:04:15.200 That's oh, that's good to hear. It became a wetland 1:04:15.240 --> 1:04:17.040 in the earthquake. Yeah, so what happened. 1:04:17.080 --> 1:04:20.000 We're still equipment laying out there. Yeah, that things sunk. 1:04:20.480 --> 1:04:22.240 Yeah, That's that's what I think with all this stuff, 1:04:22.280 --> 1:04:24.360 there should be there should be an upside. That can't 1:04:24.360 --> 1:04:27.240 always be a downside only you know, like and that 1:04:27.400 --> 1:04:30.600 probably that probably helped cacklers, you know. 1:04:30.720 --> 1:04:31.080 Got it. 1:04:31.440 --> 1:04:35.440 So so we had we did have geese in the 1:04:35.520 --> 1:04:39.520 valley and we couldn't hunt them, and and there was 1:04:39.560 --> 1:04:41.919 a while where we could. And when I was very young, 1:04:42.120 --> 1:04:45.160 I I went to you know, quite a quite an 1:04:45.160 --> 1:04:47.240 effort to hunt, to hunt them, and that's all we 1:04:47.240 --> 1:04:50.000 could hunt is dusky Kennedy's I mean I built, I would. 1:04:50.040 --> 1:04:52.720 I would dig pits with a shovel, big huge pits, 1:04:52.800 --> 1:04:55.800 pits with a shovel, and build these really elaborate wooden 1:04:55.840 --> 1:04:58.240 pits with like trap doors that you know, sprang open 1:04:58.280 --> 1:05:00.400 and swivel chairs and everything, and going to off them 1:05:00.400 --> 1:05:03.160 into those those holes. And I made homemade decoys out 1:05:03.200 --> 1:05:05.440 of you know, I mean, it was dirt poor, So 1:05:05.480 --> 1:05:07.840 I made decoys out of like, you know, canvas, bags 1:05:07.840 --> 1:05:09.880 and anything I possibly could. 1:05:09.920 --> 1:05:13.720 And you know, uh, the first I have pictures of 1:05:14.240 --> 1:05:17.120 me and my brother Danny in high school hunting geese 1:05:17.120 --> 1:05:19.840 when they first opened the early goose season in Michigan. 1:05:20.240 --> 1:05:24.000 And our decoys. We took five gallon buckets, cut them 1:05:24.040 --> 1:05:32.080 in half length wise and then made plywood heads and 1:05:32.200 --> 1:05:35.240 laid out all those five gallon buckets with plywood heads on, 1:05:35.520 --> 1:05:39.280 and then sat smoking making corn cob pipes because the 1:05:39.280 --> 1:05:42.680 corn was still standing, making corn cob pipes and smoking 1:05:42.680 --> 1:05:44.680 corn silks. And they're trying to get a goose to 1:05:44.760 --> 1:05:49.080 land in those buckets. Yeah, I mean, like for us 1:05:49.080 --> 1:05:51.200 to get a goose to even fly by and range 1:05:51.320 --> 1:05:52.240 was a big deal. 1:05:52.680 --> 1:05:55.680 Yeah. Well, and it's like, yeah, all those decoys were 1:05:55.680 --> 1:05:58.000 working reasonably well, and then somebody had to come along 1:05:58.040 --> 1:06:01.360 and make like an ultra realistic it's arms race, right, yeah, 1:06:01.440 --> 1:06:04.680 it's exactly. And and and then it kind of had 1:06:04.960 --> 1:06:08.960 affected the whole industry, you know, so and then everybody 1:06:09.040 --> 1:06:14.000 had to make realistic decoys. So but in my in 1:06:14.000 --> 1:06:16.600 my case, I got to the point where more and 1:06:16.640 --> 1:06:20.160 more geese we were were wintering in our in our valley, 1:06:20.240 --> 1:06:22.480 So they has numbers improved, Oh, they were just they 1:06:22.480 --> 1:06:23.960 just kept coming up and up and up, and so. 1:06:23.920 --> 1:06:26.680 There was it was it changing agriculture practices or was 1:06:26.720 --> 1:06:28.200 just geese numbers were increasing. 1:06:28.400 --> 1:06:32.520 It was neither, honestly neither. So what was happening is 1:06:32.960 --> 1:06:36.600 all the geese. So the dusky dusky numbers never really 1:06:36.840 --> 1:06:40.040 came came up to levels that are like they're not 1:06:40.040 --> 1:06:43.240 they're not huntable or anything like that. What happened was 1:06:44.360 --> 1:06:46.600 all the geese that were wintering in the Central Valley 1:06:46.640 --> 1:06:50.720 of California or northern California. It's just started just started 1:06:50.760 --> 1:06:53.000 wintering in the Willhammette Valley. 1:06:52.800 --> 1:06:55.080 Because of drought patterns or it's not well understood. 1:06:55.240 --> 1:06:58.520 I don't know, because that that changes, that that goes 1:06:58.560 --> 1:07:00.720 in cycles, you know, every ten or twenty years, and 1:07:00.760 --> 1:07:03.120 we're starting to get snows where we never had snows before. 1:07:03.560 --> 1:07:05.800 Things like that has changed, and I don't really know 1:07:05.840 --> 1:07:10.120 the answer, so that only the geese snow. But so 1:07:10.120 --> 1:07:12.240 so now we had all these these geese and nobody 1:07:12.400 --> 1:07:14.959 really knew how to hunt them, and they were trying 1:07:14.960 --> 1:07:16.880 to work out a way that you could hunt them 1:07:16.920 --> 1:07:20.680 because the farmers were, you know, kind of alarmed by this, 1:07:21.160 --> 1:07:23.000 so they worked out a way where you could hunt. 1:07:23.240 --> 1:07:26.440 You could hunt Canada geese. We had seven subspecies of 1:07:26.480 --> 1:07:27.880 Canada geese in the valley. 1:07:27.960 --> 1:07:31.440 And but that was before they shrank, didn't it didn't 1:07:31.480 --> 1:07:36.600 we go just because of lumpers and splitters in taxonomy. 1:07:36.760 --> 1:07:39.760 Didn't we go from twenty eight geese down to three 1:07:39.840 --> 1:07:44.360 or four? Well, because the Ornithological Society one day to said, 1:07:44.360 --> 1:07:47.360 just scrap all that. It's just it's we're splitting hairs. 1:07:47.560 --> 1:07:49.560 Yeah, I mean there's definitely there's definitely some of that. 1:07:49.640 --> 1:07:52.400 It went from twenty eight down to maybe eleven and 1:07:53.240 --> 1:07:57.400 one that's extinct. But people still argue about that, you know, 1:07:57.640 --> 1:08:03.280 like so there's isolating breeding, there's isolated breeding groups, especially 1:08:03.320 --> 1:08:05.240 of lessers, and some people will say that is a 1:08:05.240 --> 1:08:07.560 separate subspecies, and some people will say it's the same. 1:08:07.960 --> 1:08:11.360 And that part is so confusing. I mean, nobody knows 1:08:11.440 --> 1:08:12.680 the real, the real answer. 1:08:12.720 --> 1:08:15.960 But yeah, maybe because it's all definitional and just varies 1:08:15.960 --> 1:08:20.160 on the person. It's just it's it's highly subjective, right yeah. 1:08:20.280 --> 1:08:24.280 Yeah, So what what we were most concerned I was 1:08:24.320 --> 1:08:26.600 concerned about is just like from a legal standpoint, what 1:08:26.680 --> 1:08:28.559 we could shoot and what we couldn't and everything. So 1:08:29.320 --> 1:08:32.759 you had to take a course and pass the course 1:08:32.800 --> 1:08:35.000 that proves that you would know how to hunt without 1:08:35.040 --> 1:08:37.960 shooting a dusky Canada goose and tell me more. 1:08:38.280 --> 1:08:39.600 I don't know that I've ever laid eyes on a 1:08:39.680 --> 1:08:43.000 dusky Okay, so tell me what, like, walk me through this. 1:08:43.200 --> 1:08:46.080 They're they're really pretty, they're really neat birds. They're they're 1:08:46.120 --> 1:08:48.040 and they're sort of cool because they're sort of like 1:08:48.120 --> 1:08:51.840 our are our original goose. They're kind of like like 1:08:51.920 --> 1:08:54.320 co hosts am and our cutthroat trout or you know, 1:08:54.479 --> 1:08:58.080 black tailed deer where I live. So they're medium large 1:08:58.120 --> 1:09:01.479 goose and they're very, very very dark. So thank god 1:09:01.520 --> 1:09:04.559 they're really dark, because otherwise, you know, in flight, there 1:09:04.560 --> 1:09:07.040 wouldn't be any great way to are there. 1:09:07.080 --> 1:09:08.760 Do they still have a white cheek or is that 1:09:08.800 --> 1:09:11.679 white cheek as duskier too, so that white cheek is white? 1:09:12.040 --> 1:09:15.559 Yeah, yeah, yep. All Canada geese have a white cheek 1:09:15.600 --> 1:09:17.920 and some people call them in a white cheek geese 1:09:17.960 --> 1:09:20.160 and everything. So yeah, they still have that, and it's 1:09:20.720 --> 1:09:26.120 that believe it or not. Probably illusions have the lowest 1:09:26.160 --> 1:09:31.439 amount of white on their cheeks, just mostly because it 1:09:31.560 --> 1:09:36.479 usually doesn't cover the bottom of the throat. But but 1:09:36.840 --> 1:09:39.920 dusky kenadedies have a pretty prominent white cheek patch and stuff. 1:09:39.920 --> 1:09:42.160 But they're just really really really dark, and they have 1:09:42.560 --> 1:09:46.920 they sound different, they act different, they they're in, they're 1:09:46.920 --> 1:09:50.800 in certain sized groups. They fly around fairly low, and 1:09:50.840 --> 1:09:54.200 they kind of keep to themselves. They don't they don't 1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:57.679 mingle too much with other Canada geese. So you take 1:09:57.680 --> 1:10:01.920 this test and then you get a a goose card 1:10:01.520 --> 1:10:05.160 that's your permit to hunt, and you can only hunt 1:10:05.280 --> 1:10:07.920 This is how it was originally. You could only hunt 1:10:07.960 --> 1:10:09.679 between the hours of eight and. 1:10:09.680 --> 1:10:10.640 Four, ok. 1:10:11.160 --> 1:10:13.160 And you had to check all your geese in at 1:10:13.160 --> 1:10:15.800 a check station when you were done, and they would 1:10:15.800 --> 1:10:20.680 carefully measure the Coleman length, which is the measurement of 1:10:20.720 --> 1:10:23.080 the top of the bill. That was one of the 1:10:23.120 --> 1:10:25.519 things that they would use, and then like the length 1:10:25.560 --> 1:10:28.000 of the legs and the color of the breast. And 1:10:28.080 --> 1:10:30.320 if you shot a dusky Canada goose, your card was 1:10:30.320 --> 1:10:33.639 punched and you're done for the season. Really yeah, and 1:10:34.000 --> 1:10:37.120 what year was this, Well, I don't know. This was 1:10:37.200 --> 1:10:41.639 back in the Yeah, I'm terrible about dates. I mean, 1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:47.040 this was all up until about eight years ago. So 1:10:47.120 --> 1:10:48.880 then eight years ago what they did is a. 1:10:49.400 --> 1:10:52.240 Yeah, this is all new to me. Yeah, I had 1:10:52.240 --> 1:10:52.720 never heard this. 1:10:52.960 --> 1:10:56.080 Yeah, it was kind of cool because it just kept 1:10:56.120 --> 1:10:58.800 out a lot of you know, the pilgrims, Like you 1:10:59.280 --> 1:11:02.760 had to be pretty dedicated to this, and and you 1:11:02.840 --> 1:11:06.280 had to you learned a ton about geese because we 1:11:06.320 --> 1:11:09.479 would get set up before it would get light. Like 1:11:09.520 --> 1:11:11.200 some people would go out and they'd start setting up 1:11:11.200 --> 1:11:13.479 at seven and they'd be set up by eight. Well, 1:11:13.479 --> 1:11:15.720 the geese are trying to get in, you know, they're 1:11:15.720 --> 1:11:18.479 trying to get in, uh before that. So what we 1:11:18.520 --> 1:11:19.559 would always do. 1:11:19.760 --> 1:11:21.760 Is the is the eight am restriction because they want 1:11:21.800 --> 1:11:23.000 good daylight exactly. 1:11:23.160 --> 1:11:25.320 Yep. They won't you to be able to see to 1:11:25.360 --> 1:11:28.000 see him. So but it was it worked for us 1:11:28.000 --> 1:11:32.360 because we just learned so much about geese by being 1:11:32.360 --> 1:11:34.719 set up and having to watch them for the first 1:11:34.840 --> 1:11:36.880 hour hour and a half and having them come and 1:11:36.960 --> 1:11:39.960 land in the decoys and seeing what, you know, what 1:11:40.080 --> 1:11:41.120 works and what doesn't work. 1:11:41.160 --> 1:11:42.639 And do you ever get your card evoked? 1:11:42.920 --> 1:11:43.280 What's that? 1:11:43.720 --> 1:11:45.240 Did you ever get your card punched? 1:11:45.360 --> 1:11:50.400 I never did? I never did so one time. Brad, 1:11:50.479 --> 1:11:53.439 you know my partner, Brad, he's a phenomenal goose hunter. 1:11:53.520 --> 1:11:55.920 He's honestly, he's one of the best goose hunters on 1:11:56.080 --> 1:11:59.680 the planet. One time he and and one of our 1:11:59.720 --> 1:12:02.320 one of the other guys that we work with, they 1:12:02.360 --> 1:12:06.760 got their cards punch because there there's there's also this 1:12:07.000 --> 1:12:11.880 flock of lessers that hang out around was still like 1:12:12.200 --> 1:12:18.200 our anchorage, and those birds were fairly dark and fairly large, 1:12:18.360 --> 1:12:21.040 and so it was close. But we felt like we 1:12:21.120 --> 1:12:23.760 knew those birds really really well, so we didn't have 1:12:23.800 --> 1:12:29.000 any problem hunting those. And one time Brad and and 1:12:29.120 --> 1:12:31.080 I think it was Brian Stone got their cards punched 1:12:31.120 --> 1:12:37.360 because they shot They shot banded anchorage lessers and we've 1:12:37.360 --> 1:12:39.760 done that several times, but usually so they have a 1:12:39.800 --> 1:12:44.080 smaller band than the than the duskies do, so we 1:12:44.120 --> 1:12:47.519 shoot those with confidence. And most of the checkers at 1:12:47.520 --> 1:12:49.880 the chech station just know and they also have a 1:12:49.920 --> 1:12:53.200 reference of band numbers, and so you're supposed to be 1:12:53.240 --> 1:12:56.080 able to go into the tech station and they'll see 1:12:56.080 --> 1:12:58.559 that it's a smaller band or they'll check the number 1:12:58.600 --> 1:13:01.400 and they'll say, okay, you're fine, it's on a dusky. Well, 1:13:01.640 --> 1:13:04.040 in one case they got their cards punched, and it 1:13:04.080 --> 1:13:07.240 worked out great for me because they called me and 1:13:07.280 --> 1:13:09.680 told me and they're like, yeah, we're getting bombed in 1:13:09.760 --> 1:13:11.280 by all these lessers, and a bunch of them have 1:13:11.320 --> 1:13:14.519 net collars and you know, radar transmitters and tarsus bands 1:13:14.520 --> 1:13:17.240 and leg bands, and so I went and sat in 1:13:17.240 --> 1:13:19.559 their blind. I got to hunt. The next day. They 1:13:19.600 --> 1:13:21.720 just left all their decoys out and I got it. 1:13:21.760 --> 1:13:25.600 I got some nice birds. And then they sort of 1:13:25.680 --> 1:13:27.960 went to a review panel and found out that yeah, 1:13:28.000 --> 1:13:32.920 they were Anchorage lessers, so they got their cards vindication 1:13:33.080 --> 1:13:37.599 man and twice for me. Hunting on Willop a Bay, 1:13:38.560 --> 1:13:41.800 I got to the check station and the checker was gone, 1:13:42.040 --> 1:13:44.360 and assumed that everyone was done for the day, but 1:13:44.600 --> 1:13:47.360 I was. I had such a good relationship with the 1:13:47.400 --> 1:13:50.320 biologists and the state state Policies was in the state 1:13:50.360 --> 1:13:54.240 of Washington, that they both times they said, okay, Dave, 1:13:54.280 --> 1:13:55.960 well tell us what you got, you know, tell us 1:13:56.000 --> 1:13:59.040 what your birds are. And I told him, They're like, okay, yeah, 1:13:59.080 --> 1:14:00.360 we'll send you a new card. In the sent me 1:14:00.400 --> 1:14:03.880 a new card right away, so that you know, I 1:14:03.960 --> 1:14:06.360 was lucky in that respect. But I never got my 1:14:06.479 --> 1:14:10.439 card punched luckily, Like not for real. I've come dang close. 1:14:10.520 --> 1:14:15.559 I mean, I you know, I've had I've had some 1:14:15.680 --> 1:14:19.360 checkers that you know, there's a big turnover of checkers, 1:14:19.400 --> 1:14:21.840 and some of them really didn't know what they were doing, 1:14:21.920 --> 1:14:26.120 and some of them did. And you know, I've had 1:14:26.160 --> 1:14:30.920 some scary situations, but it's fine. I I survived it, 1:14:31.240 --> 1:14:32.960 you know. And now it's to the point where there's 1:14:32.960 --> 1:14:35.880 no more check stations. Now it's illegal to shoot a 1:14:35.920 --> 1:14:40.800 dusky Canada goose. And the problem with that. It's good 1:14:40.800 --> 1:14:43.200 and bad. But the problem with that is now everybody 1:14:43.479 --> 1:14:46.240 goose hunts, every duck hunter shoots, you know, a geese 1:14:46.280 --> 1:14:50.680 flying over and stuff, and so it's just changed the 1:14:50.720 --> 1:14:55.880 goose hunting dramatically. Like I mean, I had some just beautiful, 1:14:57.680 --> 1:15:00.000 you know, periods of time, several seasons in a row 1:15:00.080 --> 1:15:02.640 where I just had just fabulous goose hunting, and a 1:15:02.680 --> 1:15:05.640 lot of it was because of the difficulties and the 1:15:05.720 --> 1:15:09.559 check stations. Almost I mean, the funnest hunting of my 1:15:09.640 --> 1:15:14.280 life was six seasons on Willipa Bay. There were several 1:15:14.320 --> 1:15:18.960 birds that were they were actually across between a well 1:15:19.040 --> 1:15:23.040 western and a dusky. They called them whiskies, and the 1:15:23.080 --> 1:15:27.639 bile just really wanted them gone, and so they would 1:15:27.680 --> 1:15:31.519 put white neck colors on them, and so none of 1:15:31.520 --> 1:15:35.599 the locals would bother hunting those birds, because I mean, 1:15:36.120 --> 1:15:38.720 you know, you go down a tide flat and you're 1:15:38.800 --> 1:15:41.960 hunting in this huge, this huge area, and it's a 1:15:42.120 --> 1:15:44.760 pain in the ass to get out there, and you 1:15:44.800 --> 1:15:46.160 got to figure out how you're going to hide once 1:15:46.200 --> 1:15:48.559 you get out there, and decoys, getting decoys out there 1:15:48.560 --> 1:15:50.960 and all that stuff. It was all difficult. And then 1:15:51.120 --> 1:15:53.920 you get some birds to come in and there's a 1:15:54.040 --> 1:15:55.599 very good chance that it's going to be a whole 1:15:55.600 --> 1:15:58.000 bunch of big, dark birds, and none of them have 1:15:58.080 --> 1:16:00.680 a white collar, so you can't shoot unless it has 1:16:00.680 --> 1:16:04.120 a white collar. And so now the locals were bothering, 1:16:05.080 --> 1:16:08.920 and to me, it was just paradise, Like I absolutely 1:16:09.080 --> 1:16:12.120 loved that. It was just so much fun. And uh, 1:16:12.600 --> 1:16:15.679 I love shooting you know, those collared birds, and everyone 1:16:15.720 --> 1:16:18.360 of them had a leg band and I just started, 1:16:18.560 --> 1:16:22.679 you know, accumulating those, and I it was just super exciting, 1:16:22.720 --> 1:16:25.479 like every time I shot one, and that was that 1:16:25.560 --> 1:16:27.519 was the funnest goose hunting I've ever had. 1:16:27.720 --> 1:16:30.160 Do you got land you're pretty loaded up with bands? 1:16:30.479 --> 1:16:36.400 I do, yeah, yeah, And I have over one hundred 1:16:36.600 --> 1:16:41.960 net collars really yeah, really, and from from a lot 1:16:42.000 --> 1:16:45.600 of different subspecies, so I can blame Brad Cochrane, I 1:16:45.680 --> 1:16:48.240 think for that. So I tried to stick with mostly 1:16:48.479 --> 1:16:53.400 mostly white collars, which doesn't disrupt anything any studies or 1:16:53.400 --> 1:16:57.759 anything like that. But man, once you once you learned 1:16:57.800 --> 1:17:00.400 how to spot a collar in the air, and you 1:17:00.439 --> 1:17:03.719 would think that it'd be like you'd see the color 1:17:03.760 --> 1:17:05.599 of it or something like that, and it's not it 1:17:05.640 --> 1:17:08.040 at all. It just it just looks like a little 1:17:08.120 --> 1:17:10.040 kink in the neck. It just looks kind of like 1:17:10.080 --> 1:17:15.640 a broken neck. And once you get that down, you 1:17:15.680 --> 1:17:18.080 can't help yourself but to shoot them. Like when you're 1:17:18.120 --> 1:17:20.519 hunting cacklers or something like that, that's just the funnest 1:17:20.560 --> 1:17:24.000 thing ever too. It's just you get a big grind 1:17:24.000 --> 1:17:28.840 of cacklers going and just keep watching them, keep watching them, 1:17:28.840 --> 1:17:31.360 and you maybe look at a block of four or 1:17:31.439 --> 1:17:34.040 five at once and make sure that they're on a 1:17:34.160 --> 1:17:37.479 line where you have that second that it takes to 1:17:37.520 --> 1:17:41.720 sit up and shoot. And you know, I mean I 1:17:41.800 --> 1:17:46.599 went like dozens of days where it didn't fire, shot 1:17:46.640 --> 1:17:50.320 all day, just watch birds all day long. You wouldn't 1:17:50.320 --> 1:17:52.040 see one, and once in a while. 1:17:52.120 --> 1:17:54.240 You'd see it was just looking for collared birds. 1:17:54.400 --> 1:17:56.360 Yeah, it was fun. It was just something, I mean, 1:17:57.200 --> 1:18:00.120 something that we wanted to do, and we've also so 1:18:00.840 --> 1:18:03.800 you know, always felt like that's how we learned a 1:18:03.880 --> 1:18:06.880 lot about geese. It is just well, for one, we 1:18:06.920 --> 1:18:10.559 never wanted to shoot into big flocks. So like when 1:18:10.600 --> 1:18:13.200 I was hunting those whiskies, I mean, there was only 1:18:13.240 --> 1:18:15.600 so many of them and they were mixed in with 1:18:15.680 --> 1:18:18.479 other birds, and I just could not shoot into big 1:18:18.520 --> 1:18:22.280 flocks or I would have had it ruined, you know, 1:18:22.320 --> 1:18:25.080 in one season. I wanted it to last and last, 1:18:25.120 --> 1:18:28.879 and so I was pretty pretty patient. But I would definitely, 1:18:29.200 --> 1:18:33.360 like on cacklers, I would definitely make that exception because well, 1:18:33.360 --> 1:18:36.000 one thing about cacklers is they're so gregarious and they're 1:18:36.040 --> 1:18:39.200 so loud, and they're in such large flocks that if 1:18:39.240 --> 1:18:42.240 you have a giant grind of cacklers going and you 1:18:42.320 --> 1:18:46.280 sit up and make one shot and drop a collared 1:18:46.280 --> 1:18:50.360 bird and get back in your blind instead of getting 1:18:50.400 --> 1:18:52.400 out and whooping it up and all that stuff whatever, 1:18:52.400 --> 1:18:54.519 you back in your blind. Most of the time the 1:18:54.560 --> 1:19:00.080 grind will keep coming because the birds that saw you 1:19:00.160 --> 1:19:02.120 and saw the boogey man, they kind of freak out. 1:19:02.520 --> 1:19:05.040 But the birds on the far side of this giant grind. 1:19:05.080 --> 1:19:07.280 They haven't, they don't know what it is. And what 1:19:07.280 --> 1:19:08.320 would you keep going? 1:19:08.520 --> 1:19:11.960 What would you consider a in your mind? What's like 1:19:12.000 --> 1:19:13.200 a giant grind? 1:19:13.280 --> 1:19:15.920 Like how many birds grind? I've never heard that. 1:19:15.920 --> 1:19:17.840 I've never heard that. I know, the grind from just 1:19:17.960 --> 1:19:22.880 being the daily grind of like getting up so early 1:19:23.080 --> 1:19:25.800 and setting out decoys and pulling into decoys and just 1:19:25.800 --> 1:19:29.040 like it's a frequently waterfoul. People will talk about the 1:19:29.080 --> 1:19:32.080 grind of just how the drudgery of hunting hard. 1:19:32.400 --> 1:19:34.960 Yeah, well that's a that's the real grind for sure. 1:19:35.000 --> 1:19:38.479 And that's a grind too. Yeah, I mean like a 1:19:38.520 --> 1:19:41.439 tornado or you know whatever. We've a lot of people 1:19:41.479 --> 1:19:44.360 have different names for it, but I mean it. You know, 1:19:44.439 --> 1:19:46.479 it's like we would still probably call it a grind 1:19:46.479 --> 1:19:49.000 if it was two hundred birds, but but it could 1:19:49.000 --> 1:19:51.639 be ten thousand, yeah, you know, and and a lot 1:19:51.680 --> 1:19:53.360 of times it's a thousand. 1:19:53.960 --> 1:19:56.640 You know, you're talking about just like an aggregation of 1:19:56.680 --> 1:19:58.680 birds that is kind of on the same schedule and 1:19:58.680 --> 1:20:01.840 they're coming through in a group. Uh there, they might 1:20:01.880 --> 1:20:03.320 be spread apart by many minutes. 1:20:03.439 --> 1:20:06.200 No, no, no, no, no, I'm talking about a flock. Yeah, 1:20:06.240 --> 1:20:09.080 a big, a big giant flock. Sometimes other flocks are 1:20:09.160 --> 1:20:10.360 joining at the same time. 1:20:10.880 --> 1:20:14.800 But so they didn't like it's a grouping that you 1:20:14.840 --> 1:20:16.320 can like put your eyes on it one time. 1:20:16.439 --> 1:20:19.639 Yeah yeah, yeah. 1:20:19.680 --> 1:20:22.479 Tornado, it's like a snow goose tornado. 1:20:23.360 --> 1:20:25.960 Yeah Tonado, Yeah, yep, exactly, yep. 1:20:35.520 --> 1:20:37.720 All right, get me too, because I asked you a 1:20:37.720 --> 1:20:40.120 bunch of questions got us off. So at a point 1:20:41.640 --> 1:20:45.880 you you got into guiding, and then I want to 1:20:45.880 --> 1:20:47.760 get to how you got into how you thought to 1:20:47.840 --> 1:20:50.240 make your own decoy, which doesn't occur to everybody. 1:20:51.280 --> 1:20:56.640 Yeah, So I mean the the decoys came first, and 1:20:56.760 --> 1:20:59.080 then the decoys worked so well that that's what got 1:20:59.200 --> 1:21:04.800 us into guiding. So I was buying every every brand 1:21:04.840 --> 1:21:08.840 of decoy that that was available, and and I was 1:21:10.000 --> 1:21:12.599 I was just the birds just weren't landing in them. 1:21:12.800 --> 1:21:14.720 And I just and I had everybody tell me like, 1:21:14.760 --> 1:21:16.439 oh god, you know you're they're not going to land 1:21:16.479 --> 1:21:18.759 in them. And I was reading like Dennis Hunt books 1:21:18.760 --> 1:21:21.439 and stuff, and they were saying things like like, uh, 1:21:21.600 --> 1:21:25.200 you know, decoys are you need them? But at the 1:21:25.240 --> 1:21:27.559 same time, geese hate them. They're just used to lure 1:21:27.720 --> 1:21:32.160 birds into gun range, and I just called yeah, yeah, 1:21:32.160 --> 1:21:34.560 and I was like, I watched real birds land with 1:21:34.640 --> 1:21:37.880 real birds all the time, and I just felt really 1:21:37.960 --> 1:21:41.080 confident that that there just has to be a better way, 1:21:41.120 --> 1:21:43.680 and that this that the whole industry was just really complacent. 1:21:44.080 --> 1:21:46.000 And I heard people say things like, oh, geese have 1:21:46.080 --> 1:21:48.360 a you know, a pie sized brain and everything, and 1:21:48.479 --> 1:21:51.160 I just had way more respect for him than that. 1:21:52.800 --> 1:21:56.200 So so I set out to sculpt. I did a 1:21:56.520 --> 1:21:59.640 I do clay sculptures. I don't carve anything. I do 1:21:59.760 --> 1:22:02.519 everything as a clay sculpture. And I set out to 1:22:02.560 --> 1:22:04.880 sculpt the most accurate decoy I possibly could. And it 1:22:05.040 --> 1:22:07.559 was a Taverner's Canada goose. That was my number one 1:22:07.640 --> 1:22:09.880 goose that I hunted and loved to hunt and everything. 1:22:09.920 --> 1:22:13.040 And now we call it a lesser because it's that's 1:22:13.240 --> 1:22:16.960 way more common and people are more familiar with that term, 1:22:17.000 --> 1:22:18.720 but that's really what the first one was. 1:22:19.400 --> 1:22:21.680 So if you look, when you say way more realistic, 1:22:22.920 --> 1:22:26.040 I would think that you can correct me on this one. 1:22:26.200 --> 1:22:28.160 I would think that there's a mad there's an issue 1:22:28.200 --> 1:22:33.560 of size, there's an issue of contours, shape, say, and 1:22:33.640 --> 1:22:37.680 there's an issue of coloration. Yep, what what is it 1:22:37.800 --> 1:22:38.120 for real? 1:22:38.720 --> 1:22:40.560 Well, and one more thing is the finish, And the 1:22:40.640 --> 1:22:43.479 finish is the biggest one of those of those four. 1:22:44.120 --> 1:22:51.920 So yeah, the sculpture needs to be you know, anatomically 1:22:52.520 --> 1:22:55.760 correct and in a pleasing pose. The pose has to 1:22:55.840 --> 1:22:58.560 be I guess that's a fifth element, right there is 1:22:58.600 --> 1:23:02.680 the pose. It's really important with turkeys. The pose has 1:23:02.760 --> 1:23:05.200 to tell what you want. What you want the decoy. 1:23:05.320 --> 1:23:08.400 You don't want to decoy of a scared ass turkey exactly. 1:23:08.640 --> 1:23:14.479 Yeah. But the finish, it turns out, the finish is 1:23:14.520 --> 1:23:17.920 probably more important than anything, and that is it just 1:23:18.040 --> 1:23:21.400 can't have the wrong reflections. I mean, you know, birds 1:23:21.439 --> 1:23:24.599 can see colors that we can't see, and a lot 1:23:24.640 --> 1:23:27.800 of decoys have you know, some reflection to them, and 1:23:28.120 --> 1:23:31.439 and all that stuff. And and in some ways we 1:23:31.560 --> 1:23:35.760 probably luckily stumbled on the right paint. But that that's 1:23:35.800 --> 1:23:38.080 a big one. That helps a lot. But you know, 1:23:38.120 --> 1:23:41.160 at the time, the decoys, the decoys that were working 1:23:41.280 --> 1:23:44.479 the best for me before I made a decoy we're 1:23:44.520 --> 1:23:48.599 bigfoots and carry light full bodies, and bigfoots were neat 1:23:48.720 --> 1:23:50.920 because they were they really were. 1:23:52.040 --> 1:23:52.880 What's the funn about that? 1:23:53.560 --> 1:23:57.479 No, it's it's it's funny because Pat Dirkins sent me 1:23:57.600 --> 1:24:05.000 a report from somebody, well because I mean it's not 1:24:05.120 --> 1:24:08.560 a real report if you actually read its high substantiated, 1:24:09.160 --> 1:24:12.439 but about bigfoot behavior of jumping into trees. 1:24:12.560 --> 1:24:13.400 So I just had that. 1:24:13.680 --> 1:24:16.639 Also, I'm talking about the brand Bigfoot decoys, which had 1:24:16.640 --> 1:24:18.560 like a little pedestal to look like their feet. You 1:24:18.640 --> 1:24:24.000 were thinking about bigfoots bigfoots. Yeah, sorry, pologies on behalf 1:24:24.000 --> 1:24:25.000 of grint. I did see. 1:24:27.320 --> 1:24:33.360 We can edit that out, no problem that. Uh yeah, 1:24:33.400 --> 1:24:35.000 I mean I had a ton of respect for Bigfoot 1:24:35.040 --> 1:24:37.800 decoys because they were they were made in America, and 1:24:37.880 --> 1:24:40.599 they really were really goosey. But the problem is they 1:24:40.640 --> 1:24:44.920 were they were a a large race Canada goose. They 1:24:44.960 --> 1:24:46.720 were a honker. They were a big, long neck and 1:24:46.800 --> 1:24:49.880 most of our geese were really small, short necked, you know. 1:24:50.080 --> 1:24:52.639 So that's why the carry lights looked a little more 1:24:52.760 --> 1:24:54.519 like our gaze. But we I just needed to make 1:24:54.560 --> 1:24:57.559 something that was more acculate, and the very first eco 1:24:57.680 --> 1:25:00.479 that I made it actually had the tail was a 1:25:00.560 --> 1:25:04.160 separate piece, and the wings were separate. The wing the 1:25:04.320 --> 1:25:07.479 primary feathers, they were separate pieces that glued on separately. 1:25:07.520 --> 1:25:10.680 So I had full separation in there. It was like, 1:25:10.840 --> 1:25:14.760 probably way more than it really needed to be. We 1:25:14.920 --> 1:25:18.440 made those and they worked so well. It was just unbelievable. 1:25:18.439 --> 1:25:20.000 How many did you make? Well? 1:25:20.160 --> 1:25:24.040 I mean I started out with one pose, just arresting one, 1:25:24.080 --> 1:25:26.080 and then I finally before I even hunted with that, 1:25:26.160 --> 1:25:29.400 I realized I needed to make a feeder. And so 1:25:29.560 --> 1:25:32.080 I had two poses and I went out with and 1:25:32.200 --> 1:25:35.880 hunted with those, and I would make like eighteen total 1:25:35.960 --> 1:25:39.600 decoys for my own hunting, and then I kind of 1:25:39.640 --> 1:25:42.599 realized I need an upright, but that came along later. 1:25:42.760 --> 1:25:45.120 But they were just they looked like the real birds. 1:25:45.400 --> 1:25:49.360 So what I figured, what I learned. The biggest epiphany 1:25:49.400 --> 1:25:52.120 I guess I had was when I was hunting and 1:25:53.160 --> 1:25:55.639 I had I could have. I mean, I put out 1:25:55.720 --> 1:26:02.360 twenty four dozen decoys before and if if if six 1:26:02.479 --> 1:26:05.719 real birds came and landed one hundred and fifty yards away, 1:26:06.720 --> 1:26:09.320 I any other birds that came would go land with 1:26:09.400 --> 1:26:12.519 those six. So I realized right away, Yet it's yeah, 1:26:12.600 --> 1:26:15.679 it's not a number thing. The numbers thing is. What's 1:26:15.720 --> 1:26:18.439 most important is that they're convinced that those are real birds. 1:26:18.920 --> 1:26:21.200 And so the beauty of our decoy right now is 1:26:21.520 --> 1:26:23.600 the way that people have so much damn fun with 1:26:23.720 --> 1:26:28.280 them is in places where you have normally had to 1:26:28.439 --> 1:26:31.800 use you know, five dozen, you can use eighteen. And 1:26:31.920 --> 1:26:34.080 even like on some of the places like the front 1:26:34.160 --> 1:26:37.360 Range Colorado, where people feel like they have to use 1:26:37.400 --> 1:26:41.840 twenty dozen, they can use six dozen, and so that 1:26:42.720 --> 1:26:45.599 that really helps. It just makes it more enjoyable because 1:26:46.160 --> 1:26:47.360 it's just not as much work. 1:26:47.439 --> 1:26:48.240 Less of a grind. 1:26:48.360 --> 1:26:50.120 Yeah, you're not out there and two of them more's 1:26:50.120 --> 1:26:53.160 of a grind. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, I can sleep in 1:26:53.240 --> 1:26:55.200 and I love I love sleep. 1:26:55.920 --> 1:26:59.080 Can you take us through you just sort of casually say, oh, 1:26:59.160 --> 1:27:02.160 I whipped up eight teen decoys, but what what does 1:27:02.240 --> 1:27:02.760 that look like? 1:27:03.280 --> 1:27:05.920 And can we also get into like your carving or 1:27:06.000 --> 1:27:09.360 the materials that you're using, and you know you're kind of. 1:27:11.360 --> 1:27:12.320 Giving away too much? 1:27:12.400 --> 1:27:14.479 Yeah, what were you when you say make them? You 1:27:14.560 --> 1:27:16.040 had that you made a mold obviously. 1:27:16.280 --> 1:27:19.479 Yeah, so I mean in your garage yep, you had 1:27:19.520 --> 1:27:21.760 to buy a lot of equipment, right, I had Uh Yeah, 1:27:21.800 --> 1:27:24.400 I did. I had a I had a shop already 1:27:24.560 --> 1:27:28.519 just because I've I've made fish replicas like my entire life. 1:27:29.080 --> 1:27:33.200 My artistic was Ron Petter Is is the greatest fish 1:27:33.240 --> 1:27:37.120 replica artists that ever lived, by far, and I just 1:27:37.360 --> 1:27:41.360 was a complete I just bugged the hell out of 1:27:41.479 --> 1:27:43.040 him for thirty years. 1:27:43.120 --> 1:27:44.559 Do you still do it the fish? 1:27:44.720 --> 1:27:47.600 Yeah? I do, you know, a few. I do just 1:27:47.680 --> 1:27:49.360 a few, like maybe maybe one a year. 1:27:50.439 --> 1:27:53.479 That's but yeah, that's maybe auction house, don't it. 1:27:53.560 --> 1:27:55.280 I mean they're sounding. 1:27:55.800 --> 1:27:59.880 Yeah, I'm gonna do because of fish people caught. 1:28:00.600 --> 1:28:03.320 What's that look you do a little like like whatever 1:28:03.320 --> 1:28:05.360 the hell they fish tax drmy is these days, because 1:28:05.360 --> 1:28:07.000 there's no tax dermy, it's just replicas. 1:28:07.320 --> 1:28:09.600 Yeah. Yeah. So I do a lot of steelhead and 1:28:09.920 --> 1:28:12.800 and I have a lot of molds of steelheads, so 1:28:13.439 --> 1:28:16.559 and wild steelhead. You know, there's only a few places 1:28:16.560 --> 1:28:18.880 where you can still keep wild steelhead, but I don't 1:28:18.920 --> 1:28:22.680 encourage that at all. Wild steelhead are really low in 1:28:22.760 --> 1:28:24.559 numbers and everything like that. So I have all these 1:28:24.640 --> 1:28:28.479 molds of fish, you know, up to thirty pounds, and 1:28:29.280 --> 1:28:33.200 you may I made or I inherited from Ron Pittard 1:28:33.720 --> 1:28:36.120 either one. So and I've got like I'll be I'm 1:28:36.320 --> 1:28:40.479 I'm finishing up three point twenty six pounds white crappie 1:28:40.560 --> 1:28:43.719 for John Brown John, if you're watching, I'm I'm getting 1:28:43.720 --> 1:28:46.639 it done. I'll have it done, and then I'm doing 1:28:46.720 --> 1:28:50.280 a big thirty pound steelhead for a guide who's been 1:28:50.320 --> 1:28:54.240 waiting eight years. He's been he's been really, really, really patient. 1:28:54.280 --> 1:28:55.600 He's going to be really mad when he sees that 1:28:55.680 --> 1:29:00.880 he did the Crappie. But so so I and then 1:29:00.920 --> 1:29:05.200 I have lots of experience in sculpture, in industrial sculpture. 1:29:05.439 --> 1:29:08.040 So I worked for Nike for seven years. I did 1:29:08.160 --> 1:29:11.400 clay sculptures of footwear as part of the design process. 1:29:11.560 --> 1:29:14.759 You're like the guy in that movie Air My goodness 1:29:14.840 --> 1:29:15.160 was at. 1:29:15.040 --> 1:29:18.320 A bad movie. I liked it, dude. We have to 1:29:18.360 --> 1:29:19.400 talk about that sometime. 1:29:20.160 --> 1:29:23.840 I'll talk you fine, Okay, Oh there you go. 1:29:24.520 --> 1:29:28.760 That had about every problem movie. We'll talk about a 1:29:29.520 --> 1:29:32.160 You had a job there it did. What did you 1:29:32.240 --> 1:29:32.840 carve shoes? 1:29:33.200 --> 1:29:37.639 Yeah? Clay sculptures? Yep, seriously, Yeah, I did five. Now 1:29:38.160 --> 1:29:40.600 I only did the midsol Altsoul, so I didn't have 1:29:40.720 --> 1:29:42.640 anything to do with the upper. But I did get 1:29:42.720 --> 1:29:47.080 to do five seasons of Air. Jordan's working with Tinker 1:29:47.160 --> 1:29:50.120 Hatfield and that was a and my time when Nike 1:29:50.400 --> 1:29:53.280 was really I'm super thankful for it, like it was 1:29:53.439 --> 1:29:56.000 really good people. And I learned a ton about molding 1:29:56.080 --> 1:29:58.800 and casting and and all that stuff. So that was 1:29:58.880 --> 1:30:02.560 hard I got. I got headhunted from Nike to go 1:30:02.800 --> 1:30:06.400 to FILA and I worked for And also I'm sorry 1:30:06.439 --> 1:30:08.080 for any of my friends that work at Nike. And 1:30:08.200 --> 1:30:10.639 I told you that I didn't get headhunted, that I quit, 1:30:11.320 --> 1:30:13.440 and now you're just now finding this out, So I apologize. 1:30:13.439 --> 1:30:15.960 I'm sorry I had to lie to you. And I 1:30:16.040 --> 1:30:18.240 went to FILA and I was the manager of the 1:30:18.280 --> 1:30:21.120 model shop there and did more clay sculptures and everything. 1:30:21.640 --> 1:30:25.560 And before all this, I did class sculptures of taxidermy mannequins. 1:30:26.200 --> 1:30:29.599 So I worked for research mannequins and did class sculptures 1:30:29.640 --> 1:30:32.240 animal so so I had the clay experience. I didn't 1:30:32.280 --> 1:30:37.400 have any training, I but I just winged it and 1:30:37.520 --> 1:30:41.040 just you know, muscled through it or whatever. Like I'm 1:30:41.080 --> 1:30:43.519 not I can't do it class sculpture like really well, 1:30:43.640 --> 1:30:46.120 like really fast or anything like that. And I'm not 1:30:46.520 --> 1:30:49.680 like a naturally talented at it or anything like that. 1:30:49.800 --> 1:30:53.439 But I'm pretty good at looking at two things and 1:30:53.520 --> 1:30:55.800 figuring out what the differences between those. 1:30:56.000 --> 1:30:58.200 Well can tell you one of my favorite writing quotes. 1:30:59.000 --> 1:31:01.840 I think it was RW You R W Apple. He 1:31:01.960 --> 1:31:04.960 once said, I can write better than anyone that can 1:31:05.000 --> 1:31:08.320 write faster than me, and I can write faster than 1:31:08.360 --> 1:31:09.960 anyone that can write better than me. 1:31:11.240 --> 1:31:12.040 It's perfect. 1:31:13.720 --> 1:31:15.479 Or you have to think of something like that for yourself. 1:31:15.680 --> 1:31:17.760 Yeah, yeah, well it sounds like it's already been done. 1:31:17.760 --> 1:31:20.599 Somebody beat me too it or whatever. But yeah, I mean, 1:31:20.680 --> 1:31:23.280 I'm I'm slow, and there are some people that are 1:31:23.439 --> 1:31:25.920 super talented and can do these things super super fast. 1:31:25.960 --> 1:31:28.280 And and what I mostly have to do is I 1:31:28.400 --> 1:31:32.000 have to assemble, you know, a blob of clay roughly 1:31:32.080 --> 1:31:34.600 in the shape before I can. I mean, I more 1:31:34.720 --> 1:31:39.280 or less have to build something wrong and then start 1:31:39.320 --> 1:31:42.400 picking it apart. Rather than building something right the first time, 1:31:42.880 --> 1:31:45.160 I usually just have to get it. I have to 1:31:45.240 --> 1:31:47.880 get something going and then I can then I can 1:31:47.960 --> 1:31:50.800 start to see what the difference is. So I got 1:31:50.920 --> 1:31:52.960 to have really really good reference material I got to have. 1:31:53.400 --> 1:31:54.840 I got to have that thing to compare it to, 1:31:55.360 --> 1:31:57.440 so that could be amount or a bunch of photographs 1:31:58.120 --> 1:31:58.760 or something like that. 1:31:59.600 --> 1:32:02.080 It's great way to go about building something. You just 1:32:02.160 --> 1:32:03.600 gotta gotta start it. 1:32:04.040 --> 1:32:04.240 Yeah. 1:32:04.600 --> 1:32:07.120 My dad was a wood carving and he said his 1:32:07.280 --> 1:32:10.559 strategy was if he was making like an otter, he said, 1:32:10.560 --> 1:32:12.400 I would just start taking away everything that doesn't look 1:32:12.439 --> 1:32:12.840 like an otter. 1:32:14.640 --> 1:32:14.840 Yeah. 1:32:15.760 --> 1:32:17.599 Well, and that's another thing is I have a lot 1:32:17.640 --> 1:32:21.160 of respect for wood carvers because you can only subtract material. 1:32:21.840 --> 1:32:23.680 So in my case, I mean, you put it back 1:32:23.720 --> 1:32:26.960 when you made a mistake all the time. Yeah. Yeah, 1:32:27.640 --> 1:32:32.479 so so yeah, then I made I made molds of 1:32:32.600 --> 1:32:34.680 those first decoys, and I finally had to buy a 1:32:34.760 --> 1:32:39.040 rotational casting machine, which was a pretty big, pretty big investment. 1:32:39.080 --> 1:32:40.800 And now but at this point, are you're like, you 1:32:40.840 --> 1:32:42.559 know what, I'm gonna start selling these No, No. 1:32:42.960 --> 1:32:44.959 Hold on, We're get too far ahead of ourselves. 1:32:45.040 --> 1:32:45.200 Yeah. 1:32:46.720 --> 1:32:49.960 Before it, when you just whipped up the eighteen that 1:32:50.080 --> 1:32:54.280 you first started with, Yeah, how do you whip up eighteen? 1:32:54.520 --> 1:32:58.599 You made the clay sculpture, Okay, made the class sculpture, 1:32:58.680 --> 1:33:01.760 and then made a still cone rubber mold with a 1:33:02.240 --> 1:33:06.320 fiberglass shell mold over the top of that to hold 1:33:06.400 --> 1:33:08.840 it to shape. And then since I didn't have a 1:33:08.960 --> 1:33:11.920 rotational casting machine, I had to rotate it by hand. 1:33:12.840 --> 1:33:15.760 That was the workout portion of my of my life 1:33:15.800 --> 1:33:17.439 and is amazing. 1:33:17.520 --> 1:33:18.320 Man, oh, thank you. 1:33:18.560 --> 1:33:19.320 I appreciate that. 1:33:20.680 --> 1:33:25.320 And the and the rotational part comes because once you spray, 1:33:25.640 --> 1:33:28.120 so you've got your mold, and then what material would 1:33:28.160 --> 1:33:29.000 you spray in there? 1:33:30.000 --> 1:33:34.360 So it's liquid, You're a thane, So it's like two parts. 1:33:34.520 --> 1:33:37.120 You mix A and B together, stir it up and 1:33:37.240 --> 1:33:39.000 pour it in the mold and then close the mold, 1:33:39.920 --> 1:33:42.120 and then you rotate it, keep it, keep it. 1:33:42.240 --> 1:33:44.280 Moving, griped to one side or the other. 1:33:44.560 --> 1:33:48.040 Yeah, and coat the whole inside. And then you have 1:33:48.120 --> 1:33:51.120 to keep rotating it until that stuff is hard, and 1:33:51.160 --> 1:33:52.960 then you may have to do a second, a second 1:33:53.040 --> 1:33:55.800 pore so and then I was like, screw this, this 1:33:55.880 --> 1:33:58.240 is a lot of work. Like you know, I'm not 1:33:58.360 --> 1:34:01.960 exactly Charles Atlas, and I guess I would have been 1:34:01.960 --> 1:34:05.200 if I just would have never bought a rotational casting machine. 1:34:05.840 --> 1:34:08.000 D I like, it's like more than a way out 1:34:08.040 --> 1:34:08.879 of date reference. 1:34:11.200 --> 1:34:15.760 So so I bought a rotational casting machine. And at 1:34:15.800 --> 1:34:20.080 the time, I when I was working for FILA, like 1:34:20.200 --> 1:34:23.120 everything that we would make for Fila, everything that we 1:34:23.160 --> 1:34:25.760 would design for them, they would send it back to 1:34:25.880 --> 1:34:30.080 the to the group in Italy and the ownership group 1:34:30.080 --> 1:34:32.439 would say no, no, no, that's not what the Americans want, 1:34:32.600 --> 1:34:34.519 you know, And and we were just pulling our hair 1:34:34.560 --> 1:34:36.720 out of They were just turning down everything that we made. 1:34:36.800 --> 1:34:39.439 And we were sure that we were making really, really 1:34:39.600 --> 1:34:42.160 really good shoes, and most of the time they wouldn't 1:34:42.160 --> 1:34:44.759 even make them. And we just I just watched our stock, 1:34:45.080 --> 1:34:47.320 you know, go from seventy six dollars a share down 1:34:47.360 --> 1:34:49.800 to five dollars a share over a course of a 1:34:49.960 --> 1:34:52.639 very short amount of time. So then they finally said, hey, 1:34:52.680 --> 1:34:55.080 we're going to close the Portland office. Your choices are 1:34:55.160 --> 1:34:58.400 to move to New York City or Italy. And there 1:34:58.520 --> 1:35:00.960 was about forty people in the off every single one 1:35:01.000 --> 1:35:04.360 of us said where we take neither. So now I 1:35:04.479 --> 1:35:06.120 was out of work, and I was tempted to go 1:35:06.200 --> 1:35:07.720 back to Nike and stuff like that, but I just 1:35:07.880 --> 1:35:10.160 I was so into goose hunting, and I as much 1:35:10.200 --> 1:35:14.560 as I loved, you know, working at Nike and with 1:35:14.760 --> 1:35:17.920 the people at least at FeelA, it wasn't related to 1:35:18.400 --> 1:35:22.559 hunting and nature and stuff. So so I was out 1:35:22.600 --> 1:35:25.280 of a job. In my sweet wife, Elda Smith, I 1:35:25.360 --> 1:35:27.880 love her so much. Here we are we're just getting 1:35:27.960 --> 1:35:31.800 married and right at that point, I'm like, you know, 1:35:32.479 --> 1:35:36.519 lose this high paying job, and I'm just fully expecting 1:35:36.560 --> 1:35:39.479 her to just, you know, ditch my ass. And she's 1:35:39.640 --> 1:35:42.519 just like, she's just like, we'll be fine. Whatever you 1:35:42.600 --> 1:35:44.200 got to do, you know. And I'm like working on 1:35:44.280 --> 1:35:47.439 this sculpture for six months and I'm having a cash 1:35:47.479 --> 1:35:49.240 in my four oh one k you know, a little 1:35:49.280 --> 1:35:52.600 bit out of time to keep you know, keep the 1:35:52.680 --> 1:35:55.280 roof over our head and stuff like that. And she's 1:35:55.360 --> 1:35:57.479 just such a sweetheart. She was just like, I believe 1:35:57.520 --> 1:36:00.760 in you and this will turn into something. And uh 1:36:01.240 --> 1:36:05.120 and you know, you know, God bless her, but so 1:36:05.400 --> 1:36:08.080 I did. So then I bought this rotational casting machine 1:36:08.160 --> 1:36:10.920 and that made it way easier to make these decoys 1:36:10.960 --> 1:36:12.960 and stuff. And then Brad Cochran and I we were 1:36:13.080 --> 1:36:15.080 just like we were hunting a lot together. Brad is 1:36:15.080 --> 1:36:18.400 a phenomenal, phenomenal goose hunter. He really is. He's one 1:36:18.439 --> 1:36:21.799 of five people in the world that I would actually 1:36:21.960 --> 1:36:23.160 hunt with these days. 1:36:24.000 --> 1:36:26.160 What makes a phenomenal goose hunter so. 1:36:28.360 --> 1:36:28.679 Brad. 1:36:31.640 --> 1:36:35.160 So Brad is super super hardcore. He is. He is 1:36:35.360 --> 1:36:39.880 so freaking into it, it's unbelievable. He just absolutely lives 1:36:39.960 --> 1:36:42.080 for it. After all these years, he is just as 1:36:42.120 --> 1:36:45.160 passionate about it today as he ever was so and 1:36:45.240 --> 1:36:48.200 I can't match that because I need to go on. 1:36:48.320 --> 1:36:51.479 I mean, I'm spade fishing for steelhead, I'm I'm archery 1:36:51.520 --> 1:36:54.639 black tail hunting. I need to I need these tenure 1:36:55.040 --> 1:36:57.120 at a time things, and I need new challenges and 1:36:57.160 --> 1:37:00.200 stuff like that. He is absolutely stuck with it the 1:37:00.240 --> 1:37:03.960 whole time. And he's just he's just accumulated so much knowledge, 1:37:04.000 --> 1:37:06.960 and he has great instincts. He like, I rely on 1:37:07.040 --> 1:37:09.439 my instincts one hundred percent when I'm setting up in 1:37:09.520 --> 1:37:13.280 the morning, and he has instincts. Plus it's just an 1:37:13.320 --> 1:37:16.400 incredible knowledge base. So and then he's a great shot. 1:37:16.640 --> 1:37:20.719 That's important and that and he he can spot callers 1:37:20.800 --> 1:37:25.200 really well too, and and so like so when you're 1:37:25.240 --> 1:37:28.160 when you're collar hunting, you can only hunt with somebody 1:37:28.200 --> 1:37:30.600 who's on the same page as you. You can't go 1:37:30.720 --> 1:37:33.760 hunting with a bunch of guys. I I've done it. 1:37:33.840 --> 1:37:38.240 I've shot collars when I've gotten invites, But it's usually 1:37:38.400 --> 1:37:41.120 people you sit up and shoot, and it's usually everybody's 1:37:41.200 --> 1:37:44.840 like what you know? And but if you're hunting with 1:37:44.920 --> 1:37:47.320 someone else who's on the same page, and you're looking 1:37:47.400 --> 1:37:49.160 at all the birds on the on the right, and 1:37:49.280 --> 1:37:51.400 he's looking at all the birds on the left, and 1:37:51.720 --> 1:37:53.960 you know that nobody's gonna shoot until he spot a collar. 1:37:54.800 --> 1:37:58.160 It's just way better than than than you know, Like, 1:37:59.120 --> 1:38:01.439 I knew so many people that were hunting big groups, 1:38:01.479 --> 1:38:04.120 and they were sending me texts saying like done by eight, 1:38:04.479 --> 1:38:07.920 done by eight, fifteen, done by nine, And then they 1:38:07.960 --> 1:38:10.639 would say, man, I sure wish I could get a collar, 1:38:11.320 --> 1:38:13.160 And I'm just like, okay, well I sat out there 1:38:13.200 --> 1:38:16.200 all day long and I didn't shoot anything, But you know, 1:38:16.560 --> 1:38:18.479 three or four days of that and you're gonna have 1:38:18.560 --> 1:38:22.400 a caller, Like you can't you can't be dying to 1:38:23.000 --> 1:38:25.240 get your limit as quick as possible and then complain 1:38:25.320 --> 1:38:27.280 that you didn't get a caller because you got it. 1:38:27.520 --> 1:38:29.519 That's how you get a caller, Why not shooting. 1:38:29.800 --> 1:38:35.120 It is kind of funny the the Waterfall hunters. You 1:38:35.280 --> 1:38:38.640 hear that a lot done by yeah, done by this. 1:38:38.960 --> 1:38:41.680 That's like, yeah, is it so miserable? You really want 1:38:41.720 --> 1:38:42.679 to be done so fast? 1:38:42.840 --> 1:38:44.559 Like oh yeah, you want to be at the cracker 1:38:44.640 --> 1:38:48.559 barrel by nine or whatever. Chat your biscuits and gravy. 1:38:49.000 --> 1:38:52.479 Yeah right, two questions like one. You can answer this 1:38:52.560 --> 1:38:54.639 one quickly. If you guys gotten good enough to where 1:38:54.640 --> 1:38:55.920 you can spot the leg. 1:38:55.880 --> 1:38:59.519 Bands, yeah, yeah, yeah, so you set up for the lighting. 1:38:59.560 --> 1:39:02.880 We had to that, especially on anchorage lessers, because there 1:39:03.000 --> 1:39:04.760 was a lot of them that only had a leg band. 1:39:05.560 --> 1:39:07.840 And so yeah, it's the lighting is everything. So in 1:39:07.920 --> 1:39:10.400 Oregon we don't have a lot of sunshine, and on 1:39:10.479 --> 1:39:13.320 a cloudy day it's it's incredibly difficult. So I don't 1:39:13.400 --> 1:39:18.800 think I have ever gotten a band that didn't bling, 1:39:19.200 --> 1:39:24.559 that didn't sparkle. I think some people have, and I've tried. 1:39:24.600 --> 1:39:27.000 I mean I've I've got a giant grind of pintails, 1:39:28.000 --> 1:39:32.400 and pintails they corkscrew down like swans do, where you 1:39:32.479 --> 1:39:34.439 can see every one of their legs one after another 1:39:34.479 --> 1:39:36.960 and stuff like that. I've never gotten, never gotten one 1:39:37.000 --> 1:39:40.599 that way. And I have gotten several leg band only 1:39:40.720 --> 1:39:45.320 geese by spotting the leg band and at least one 1:39:45.840 --> 1:39:49.479 where I spotted the shape like while it's quartering away. 1:39:49.920 --> 1:39:53.360 But I've gotten several that were the lighting was really 1:39:53.400 --> 1:39:55.960 really good and as the birds are coming and landing 1:39:56.200 --> 1:39:59.040 one at a time, you know they're dropping their feet. 1:39:59.320 --> 1:40:02.760 You set up quick, you don't. You never let them land, 1:40:03.080 --> 1:40:06.320 Like if a bird lands, our general rule is that 1:40:06.479 --> 1:40:09.560 they're safe. Like and everybody assumes if we're shooting a 1:40:09.560 --> 1:40:12.040 lot of bands and colors there. We hear people say 1:40:12.080 --> 1:40:13.880 all the time, like, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna shoot 1:40:13.920 --> 1:40:16.120 bands and collars. We just we just let them land 1:40:16.160 --> 1:40:17.760 and we get out the buy notes. It's like, oh 1:40:17.840 --> 1:40:21.240 my god, you can't do that because you would shoot 1:40:21.280 --> 1:40:26.920 twenty five geese, you know, Like so you pretty much 1:40:27.000 --> 1:40:31.400 have to shoot them out of there. Otherwise, you know, 1:40:31.439 --> 1:40:33.599 you're just gonna have just too much, too many other. 1:40:34.240 --> 1:40:37.080 What is it with the waterfowlers and the collars? 1:40:37.200 --> 1:40:37.879 In the bands? 1:40:38.080 --> 1:40:42.160 There's no antlers, there's no there's no there's no age 1:40:42.200 --> 1:40:43.400 group or anything like that. 1:40:43.880 --> 1:40:47.439 Like so that's how you guys found like the next 1:40:47.600 --> 1:40:50.280 like the next level of difficulty where some guy might 1:40:50.320 --> 1:40:52.000 say I only hunt four and a half year old 1:40:52.040 --> 1:40:56.439 bucks year older. Yeah, you're like, well to get this 1:40:56.560 --> 1:40:59.160 with geese, what are we gonna do? So shoot the collar. 1:40:59.520 --> 1:41:01.960 Everybody looks at a different like Brad. Brad made a 1:41:02.040 --> 1:41:04.479 comment a month ago, and I was just kind of 1:41:04.760 --> 1:41:07.640 appalled by it. Honestly, he was like saying, like a 1:41:07.760 --> 1:41:10.680 collar is equivalent to like a three forty ball, and 1:41:10.840 --> 1:41:14.680 I was like, this is a this is coming. This 1:41:14.800 --> 1:41:16.960 is definitely a guy who hasn't shot at three forty 1:41:17.000 --> 1:41:20.960 bull so like, But in his defense, I think what 1:41:21.120 --> 1:41:22.200 he means is. 1:41:24.920 --> 1:41:27.160 A thing of nature. A collar is a thing made 1:41:27.280 --> 1:41:31.240 a human factory, exactly exactly. It's like you're handling a 1:41:31.360 --> 1:41:33.400 bird that's been handled. 1:41:33.520 --> 1:41:33.720 Yep. 1:41:34.000 --> 1:41:36.080 I've always had a real like, I recognize it's cool, 1:41:36.080 --> 1:41:37.720 and I have a couple of my little box of 1:41:37.880 --> 1:41:41.360 like special things, but it's been You're not the first 1:41:41.400 --> 1:41:43.160 person to lay a hand on that bird. Yeah, and 1:41:43.400 --> 1:41:46.960 some of the magic's going. In fact, it was birds man. 1:41:47.200 --> 1:41:48.800 Yeah, it was one of the number ones. Because I 1:41:48.880 --> 1:41:52.000 got caught, right, I can't speak to that. Well, what 1:41:52.320 --> 1:41:54.800 what Brad was getting at, what he was meaning is 1:41:57.280 --> 1:42:02.040 waterfowlers want a collar as as bad as as big 1:42:02.120 --> 1:42:04.240 game hunters want a three or fording bowl. 1:42:04.840 --> 1:42:06.639 All right, So at what point did you say to yourself, 1:42:06.680 --> 1:42:09.800 this has all been great, Johnnie, but we got to 1:42:09.840 --> 1:42:10.200 move along. 1:42:10.320 --> 1:42:11.360 I understand. 1:42:13.040 --> 1:42:15.639 When you started making them, and here you gotta be honest. 1:42:15.800 --> 1:42:19.840 You start making decoys for yourself and your garage. You 1:42:20.160 --> 1:42:22.640 have to in your head, unless you're gonna lie to me, 1:42:23.600 --> 1:42:27.360 you have to in your head be thinking. I could 1:42:27.360 --> 1:42:29.720 see going into business making these and selling them. 1:42:31.960 --> 1:42:34.920 I mean that that came about fairly quickly once I 1:42:35.080 --> 1:42:39.320 realized how expensive the like the materials were and the 1:42:39.400 --> 1:42:44.360 moles were, and I had I was I really didn't 1:42:44.360 --> 1:42:47.920 want to because I just wanted for myself because they 1:42:47.960 --> 1:42:51.200 were working really good. And I am like super super 1:42:51.320 --> 1:42:54.400 secretive with with so much of my hunting and fishing, 1:42:54.439 --> 1:42:56.680 and I don't post a lot or anything. I don't 1:42:56.720 --> 1:42:59.240 have any stickers on my truck and I once in 1:42:59.280 --> 1:43:01.479 a while I'll take my wife's car so that nobody 1:43:01.560 --> 1:43:03.439 knows where I'm at or what I'm doing. 1:43:04.280 --> 1:43:06.400 How secretive though, you did just give us a ton 1:43:06.479 --> 1:43:07.599 of antelope information. 1:43:07.720 --> 1:43:12.960 But we're family, right, you know, Like yeah, and I 1:43:13.160 --> 1:43:15.360 and he doesn't know this, but I held back some 1:43:15.520 --> 1:43:23.320 pretty important I mean, just the reality set in that 1:43:23.520 --> 1:43:26.080 I've got a lot of money in these molds and 1:43:26.120 --> 1:43:28.760 everything like that, and then and so many people we 1:43:29.320 --> 1:43:32.519 were asking for them. And then when we started guiding, 1:43:33.080 --> 1:43:35.719 I was like, well, that's how make the money that's how. 1:43:35.680 --> 1:43:38.479 Make the money back being a successful guide. 1:43:38.800 --> 1:43:43.120 But when you're guiding, more more people than ever asked 1:43:43.439 --> 1:43:46.679 wanted to buy decoys. So and we were having fun guiding. 1:43:46.760 --> 1:43:50.200 Brad and I were guiding together, and we were remembering 1:43:50.200 --> 1:43:52.920 the other day. On one season, we limited out with 1:43:53.000 --> 1:43:57.000 our clients every single day of the entire season except 1:43:57.080 --> 1:43:59.719 for two days, but we still killed fifty six geese 1:43:59.760 --> 1:44:02.840 and the two days. So we were we were doing 1:44:02.960 --> 1:44:04.880 really well and we were having a lot of fun, 1:44:06.120 --> 1:44:08.519 and life was good, and gas prices were fairly low 1:44:08.600 --> 1:44:12.880 and everything like that. But more people ask for for decoys. 1:44:13.080 --> 1:44:16.320 Gas prices started getting high, more people started hunting. Some 1:44:16.400 --> 1:44:18.519 of the places that we that we hunted were getting 1:44:18.600 --> 1:44:20.880 leased out from under us, even by clients and stuff. 1:44:21.640 --> 1:44:25.720 And Brad, you know, Bradd with an accounting major. The 1:44:25.840 --> 1:44:27.400 last thing in the world that he wanted to do 1:44:27.600 --> 1:44:30.680 is go become an accountant. And he was just like, 1:44:31.080 --> 1:44:35.280 let's let's start making decoys, and and I was all 1:44:35.400 --> 1:44:38.840 for it. So that's that's what we did. And and 1:44:39.560 --> 1:44:43.880 it's it's not a super lucrative business, that's for sure, 1:44:43.960 --> 1:44:48.879 but it's a super fun business. The people, all the clients, 1:44:48.920 --> 1:44:54.280 all the customers are are great, and everybody that you 1:44:54.400 --> 1:44:58.639 work with are all super super fun, really really cool people. 1:44:59.280 --> 1:45:01.840 So I I mean, I could have done a lot 1:45:01.960 --> 1:45:03.920 better if I'd just stayed at Nike and kept, you know, 1:45:04.560 --> 1:45:07.400 hammering on my four to one K, I wouldn't be 1:45:07.439 --> 1:45:10.400 here right now, and i'd be retired, retired. But I 1:45:10.520 --> 1:45:13.720 have no regrets whatsoever. And I mean, I would just 1:45:13.840 --> 1:45:19.439 encourage anybody that is just thinking about you know. I mean, 1:45:19.439 --> 1:45:21.240 I don't want you to quit your job necessarily, but 1:45:21.360 --> 1:45:24.280 I mean, I mean, it's it's very doable. If an 1:45:24.320 --> 1:45:28.120 idiot like me can, can you know, scratch out a 1:45:28.200 --> 1:45:32.560 living and doing something that you just absolutely love. I 1:45:32.720 --> 1:45:35.160 just encourage people to just go for it. 1:45:35.920 --> 1:45:36.080 You know. 1:45:36.920 --> 1:45:40.200 So at what point did you go from like the 1:45:40.280 --> 1:45:44.479 Goose decoys to like Turkey decoys or the Buck decoy. 1:45:44.920 --> 1:45:47.960 Yeah? I got turned on you guys years ago because 1:45:48.000 --> 1:45:51.439 of Turkey decoys. And that was through Yanni. Yeah, Yanni 1:45:51.479 --> 1:45:52.320 got turned on to them. 1:45:52.960 --> 1:45:54.880 Yeah. And I know, and I feel so bad because 1:45:54.920 --> 1:45:56.519 you know, my hearing is so bad. In one of 1:45:56.560 --> 1:45:59.240 our first conversations, you mentioned that, but I didn't hear 1:45:59.360 --> 1:46:02.599 what you said. You were telling me that it was Yanni, 1:46:03.280 --> 1:46:06.240 and and I didn't. I didn't hear what you said, 1:46:06.320 --> 1:46:09.200 and I feel feel really bad, so I apologize, but yeah, 1:46:09.320 --> 1:46:12.040 I I do. I do kind of recall that and 1:46:12.040 --> 1:46:14.280 everything like that. But yeah, we so we made Goosey 1:46:14.360 --> 1:46:17.960 coys for and the the years of all this stuff 1:46:18.040 --> 1:46:19.360 is kind of hard for me to keep track. I 1:46:19.400 --> 1:46:22.599 think I started the first Goosey coy in nineteen ninety 1:46:22.640 --> 1:46:26.479 eight and I finished it in nineteen ninety nine. And 1:46:26.840 --> 1:46:31.479 uh then Turkey's didn't start until, like I roughly ten 1:46:31.600 --> 1:46:32.160 years later. 1:46:33.080 --> 1:46:35.000 And how did you get turned down to me? Yannie? 1:46:35.080 --> 1:46:38.280 Jay Scott? Oh yeah, Jay Scott. We love Jay Scott. Yeah, 1:46:38.280 --> 1:46:38.960 he's a great guy. 1:46:39.120 --> 1:46:42.679 I got a turkey shooting No, he's a watching people 1:46:42.720 --> 1:46:43.960 shoot turkey son of a gun. 1:46:44.400 --> 1:46:46.240 Yeah yeah, yeah. 1:46:46.520 --> 1:46:47.720 He likes turkey hunting man. 1:46:47.800 --> 1:46:50.200 Yeah he does. He likes he loves turkey, and he 1:46:50.280 --> 1:46:50.760 loves here. 1:46:50.840 --> 1:46:53.720 He has got you know, he likes being you know, 1:46:53.960 --> 1:46:57.519 he doesn't surprisingly small amount of hunting himself, I mean 1:46:57.600 --> 1:46:58.160 as a guide. 1:46:58.360 --> 1:47:00.280 Yeah, he's in on. 1:47:00.320 --> 1:47:03.280 An extraordinary amount of turkey hunts. Yeah, not behind the 1:47:03.320 --> 1:47:04.960 trigger on the calls, you know. 1:47:06.080 --> 1:47:08.600 Yeah, it's it's funny. He has these incredible opportunities for 1:47:08.680 --> 1:47:11.519 Elk and cous Dere and you talk to him and 1:47:11.560 --> 1:47:14.320 he's just so passionate about turkeys, you know, more so 1:47:14.439 --> 1:47:19.360 than almost anything. But yeah, and so Turkey's it was 1:47:19.400 --> 1:47:21.680 just we had a lot of our customers talking to 1:47:21.800 --> 1:47:23.920 us and just saying, my gosh, like, if you guys 1:47:23.960 --> 1:47:26.600 can make a goose decoy like this, the turkey, the 1:47:26.720 --> 1:47:30.400 Turkey market, the turkey hunting is ready for an ultra 1:47:30.479 --> 1:47:33.479 realistic turkey decoy. And there were so many people that 1:47:33.600 --> 1:47:37.560 didn't like to use Turkey decoys, but a lot of 1:47:37.560 --> 1:47:39.840 the reasons because most of the turkey decoys were just terrible. 1:47:40.439 --> 1:47:43.560 And so we you know, I did I did the 1:47:43.600 --> 1:47:46.400 sculpture of an upright hend and Brad took it to 1:47:46.560 --> 1:47:52.200 the NWTF show and the I mean, it was just 1:47:52.320 --> 1:47:56.280 overwhelming support and demand for that. Like we were like 1:47:56.720 --> 1:47:59.120 kind of like scared if we if we would have 1:47:59.200 --> 1:48:03.720 had the product, we could have sold so many thousands 1:48:03.960 --> 1:48:07.400 upon thousands of turkey days over the next five years 1:48:07.439 --> 1:48:10.360 after that, because it took five years before other companies 1:48:10.479 --> 1:48:13.280 kind of caught on, like crap dsd is selling the 1:48:13.400 --> 1:48:15.920 ship out of Turkey decoys. We got to make one, 1:48:16.439 --> 1:48:19.800 and so we had, you know, we had five or 1:48:19.880 --> 1:48:23.000 six years of before the rest of the industry caught up, 1:48:23.000 --> 1:48:24.400 and we were making them as fast as we could 1:48:24.439 --> 1:48:26.280 make them, but you know, we couldn't catch up. And 1:48:26.360 --> 1:48:29.960 now now everybody has an ultra realistic turkey decoy and 1:48:30.000 --> 1:48:33.360 some of them actually looking an awful lot like ours, 1:48:34.640 --> 1:48:36.759 and that you know that happens, it's a great compliment. 1:48:38.520 --> 1:48:40.160 And then the Dirty okoy was kind of the same way, 1:48:40.200 --> 1:48:42.800 though Dirty cooy was kind of a weird thing. So 1:48:42.920 --> 1:48:46.200 this guy, Randy bird Song how I've actually never met, 1:48:46.800 --> 1:48:50.760 but he hunted a lot with Lee and Tiffany. He 1:48:51.120 --> 1:48:55.200 was kind of sending messages through our you know, I 1:48:55.240 --> 1:48:57.759 don't know, through through through phone calls or our website 1:48:57.840 --> 1:49:00.040 or email or whatever, saying you got to make a 1:49:00.080 --> 1:49:02.320 buck decoy. It's got to be in this posturing position. 1:49:03.479 --> 1:49:06.080 So so I make it. I agreed to one hundred percent. 1:49:06.280 --> 1:49:09.760 I think he was dead on and I agreed one 1:49:09.800 --> 1:49:11.920 hundred percent, and I just started on it right away. 1:49:12.080 --> 1:49:13.880 And I love deer, love deer hunting. 1:49:14.040 --> 1:49:16.040 Where can people go to watch what you let video 1:49:16.120 --> 1:49:19.040 you show me of bucks working over your buck decoys? 1:49:19.040 --> 1:49:20.120 Where is that video? Live. 1:49:20.800 --> 1:49:22.200 Yeah, so I have a whole bunch of them. 1:49:22.240 --> 1:49:24.920 I just down one day a bunch of them. Yeah, 1:49:24.920 --> 1:49:26.719 I want to. Okay, but you guys had a montage 1:49:26.760 --> 1:49:27.280 put together. 1:49:27.640 --> 1:49:30.280 Oh oh yeah, so that was that was just all 1:49:30.360 --> 1:49:35.400 our customers. You know. Melissa Bachman, she's she's she's very good, 1:49:35.920 --> 1:49:38.519 very good hunter, and she's very good at decoying. And 1:49:38.840 --> 1:49:42.639 you know, decoying is a little different, you know the key. 1:49:43.680 --> 1:49:45.800 It's like, if you're just a really really good white 1:49:45.800 --> 1:49:48.280 tail hunter, you're not necessarily a really good decoy hunter. 1:49:48.520 --> 1:49:50.360 Like it's it's just a little bit of a learning 1:49:50.520 --> 1:49:53.200 learning curve to it. But she's very good, she's very 1:49:53.360 --> 1:49:55.960 very good, totally knows what she's doing, and she provides 1:49:55.960 --> 1:49:57.000 a lot of footage for us. 1:49:57.160 --> 1:49:57.439 Got it. 1:49:57.920 --> 1:50:01.080 Yeah, I always remember seeing the art Lambeau Hunter guys 1:50:01.640 --> 1:50:04.559 have like wicked footage of using that decoy. 1:50:04.920 --> 1:50:05.720 Those guys are great. 1:50:05.760 --> 1:50:09.240 But is that montage available on your website maybe or 1:50:09.600 --> 1:50:13.240 or somewhere. No, you just made it the montage. 1:50:13.360 --> 1:50:15.680 No no, No, it's like branded DSD in them. But 1:50:15.720 --> 1:50:18.400 it's all those bucks doing that same head motion, yeah, 1:50:18.600 --> 1:50:20.760 smashing a decoy, and they all do that little tip 1:50:20.840 --> 1:50:22.400 of the head. It's so wild, man. 1:50:22.720 --> 1:50:25.759 Yeah, they rolling their eyes, Their eyes are rolling around 1:50:25.800 --> 1:50:28.000 in their head, and they lick, They licked their nose. 1:50:28.240 --> 1:50:30.800 They cocked their head. They're always cocked their head at 1:50:30.800 --> 1:50:31.760 that weird angle. Man. 1:50:31.840 --> 1:50:35.760 Yeah, when you see that there's an explosion getting ready 1:50:35.800 --> 1:50:38.760 to happen, you're lucky enough to see two mule the 1:50:38.880 --> 1:50:41.479 or do it. I was just like kind of in 1:50:41.560 --> 1:50:43.880 and out of Bino's. But my daughter got to watch 1:50:43.920 --> 1:50:45.960 it through a spotting scope and my brother in law 1:50:46.000 --> 1:50:49.080 through another spotting scope. But just came in, you know, 1:50:49.280 --> 1:50:52.160 two big herds of does behind them each and heads 1:50:52.280 --> 1:50:54.960 almost upside down, and like you're saying, you can see 1:50:55.000 --> 1:50:57.840 the eyes just doing these weird things. And I mean 1:50:58.120 --> 1:50:59.920 seconds later, it's like the dog. 1:51:00.479 --> 1:51:03.200 It is like someone putting their hand on their pistol. Yeah, 1:51:06.640 --> 1:51:07.360 on your pistol. 1:51:07.400 --> 1:51:10.320 When he cocks his head, their blood is just starting 1:51:10.400 --> 1:51:11.559 to boil and boil. 1:51:11.640 --> 1:51:15.240 And yeah, it's amazing watching deer interact with that thing. Well, 1:51:15.320 --> 1:51:17.360 some ways, this guy comes what's his name bird Song. 1:51:17.320 --> 1:51:20.160 Yeah, Randy Birdsong, And I just feel like it's really 1:51:20.200 --> 1:51:23.680 important to point that out because I could not get 1:51:23.680 --> 1:51:25.080 a hold of him. I wanted to give him a 1:51:25.160 --> 1:51:28.560 decoy afterwards, and I wanted to tell him thank you 1:51:28.720 --> 1:51:30.400 and and and all this stuff or whatever, and he 1:51:30.560 --> 1:51:33.360 just disappeared off the face of the earth. And it's 1:51:33.439 --> 1:51:38.000 just like no, I mean, he's around somewhere and he 1:51:38.160 --> 1:51:40.720 just deserves credit for that, and and I want to 1:51:40.760 --> 1:51:41.599 give him a decoy. 1:51:42.040 --> 1:51:44.080 Well, hopefully someone could pass this along to him. 1:51:44.200 --> 1:51:46.719 Yeah, yeah, I remember, I remember watching that guy's hunting 1:51:46.760 --> 1:51:50.800 stuff back in the day, Randy Bird song. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:51:50.840 --> 1:51:52.240 he was on TV shows and stuff. 1:51:52.800 --> 1:51:55.400 Yeah, he seemed like a great hunter, and obviously he knows, 1:51:55.720 --> 1:51:57.680 you know, about white tael behavior and. 1:51:57.680 --> 1:52:01.519 Everything like that. So, so describe the deer's in Yeah. 1:52:01.600 --> 1:52:04.880 So, I mean, first of all, all their you know, 1:52:04.960 --> 1:52:08.760 all their hair is bristled. It's it's raised in the 1:52:08.840 --> 1:52:12.439 same way that an animal would do for heating and cooling, 1:52:13.800 --> 1:52:15.760 and it's just to look big, just to look as 1:52:15.840 --> 1:52:18.599 large as possible. And then what happens with the deer 1:52:18.920 --> 1:52:22.719 is when that happens, there's not this this perfect division 1:52:23.160 --> 1:52:25.439 of hair, so it ended up it'll end up with 1:52:25.479 --> 1:52:27.800 a bunch of vertical cracks along the side and then 1:52:27.880 --> 1:52:31.160 vertical cracks along the neck and that's kind of important. 1:52:31.200 --> 1:52:32.960 And that's on the decoy and everything, and the ears 1:52:32.960 --> 1:52:35.600 are pinned back as far as they go, and that 1:52:35.760 --> 1:52:37.960 I think is to make the the the the neck 1:52:38.080 --> 1:52:41.000 look big and the antlers look big. And so, you 1:52:41.080 --> 1:52:43.600 know I first made that pose. It's like like with 1:52:43.720 --> 1:52:45.600 a lot of poses, we had a whole bunch of 1:52:45.640 --> 1:52:48.479 people saying like, that is the goofiest thing I've ever seen. 1:52:48.600 --> 1:52:50.880 You'll never sell. It looks like a donkey, blah blah blah. 1:52:51.360 --> 1:52:53.479 And then people do just a little bit of research 1:52:53.560 --> 1:52:54.920 and next thing, you know, they find out that we're 1:52:55.000 --> 1:53:00.760 not so far off. And then the back is just 1:53:00.880 --> 1:53:04.960 slightly arched, you know, in the head is raised a 1:53:05.040 --> 1:53:09.559 certain amount, and uh, that's really all it takes. 1:53:09.920 --> 1:53:13.719 Did you choose a specific age class of of buck 1:53:14.280 --> 1:53:15.080 to mimic? 1:53:15.600 --> 1:53:19.240 Yeah, So all these decoys, because I love blacktail hunting 1:53:19.280 --> 1:53:22.280 so much, I cheat them just a little bit and 1:53:22.520 --> 1:53:25.479 I'm I'll make the I'll make the the snout, the 1:53:25.560 --> 1:53:28.240 muzzle just a little bit shorter and and lean them. 1:53:28.960 --> 1:53:31.040 This is a terrible thing to admit to all heart. 1:53:32.680 --> 1:53:36.000 You change the decoy for your own blacktail hunting, your 1:53:36.040 --> 1:53:37.360 own esoteric. 1:53:37.760 --> 1:53:41.679 Well not as specific like like for the actual production decoy, 1:53:41.880 --> 1:53:45.000 like so every and we sell them all over the Midwest, 1:53:45.040 --> 1:53:47.600 like that's where they get used like crazy, and and 1:53:47.720 --> 1:53:51.000 so all you Midwesterners that are using, you know, a 1:53:51.120 --> 1:53:53.519 DSc pastoring book, I'm sorry that it looks a little 1:53:53.520 --> 1:53:56.160 bit like a black tail, but that's just what I did. 1:53:56.240 --> 1:54:00.040 But yeah, it's but the but there is some c 1:54:00.280 --> 1:54:02.479 things that it doesn't look. It has to look old 1:54:02.640 --> 1:54:07.040 enough and mature enough to be a threat without being 1:54:07.240 --> 1:54:08.720 too much of a threat. So it's not going to 1:54:08.760 --> 1:54:10.760 work in every region. I mean you you know, there 1:54:10.800 --> 1:54:13.040 are certain parts of the country where that buck would 1:54:13.080 --> 1:54:14.280 be way too big. 1:54:16.000 --> 1:54:18.479 It's some three hundred and fifty pound one hundred and 1:54:18.479 --> 1:54:20.880 eighty inch buck. A lot of bucks might be like, 1:54:21.000 --> 1:54:24.680 yeah he can, I'll let him handle this situation, and. 1:54:24.720 --> 1:54:26.800 They and it brings him down off the bluffs and 1:54:26.880 --> 1:54:28.799 stuff like that, like in broad daylight. 1:54:28.920 --> 1:54:29.160 Like I. 1:54:30.720 --> 1:54:34.120 My friend Paul Minew He's got five hundred acres in 1:54:34.280 --> 1:54:37.160 Buffalo County, Wisconsin, and this is a magical place and 1:54:37.160 --> 1:54:40.440 it's super fun to go and and that decoy has 1:54:40.480 --> 1:54:43.200 brought big bucks out, you know, in the daylight that 1:54:43.320 --> 1:54:46.440 I don't think would have otherwise otherwise come out, and 1:54:47.000 --> 1:54:49.680 we get reports of that all the time. So I'd 1:54:49.720 --> 1:54:53.400 say the hardest thing is knowing when to shoot, and 1:54:53.560 --> 1:54:56.000 you don't always get a perfect shot with that. With 1:54:56.120 --> 1:54:59.280 that buck, you know, like like if you can get 1:54:59.360 --> 1:55:02.240 him to to be coming and he'll be walking slow, 1:55:02.320 --> 1:55:03.800 and if you can get him to quarter, you know, 1:55:03.880 --> 1:55:07.440 a quarter away or a broadside like that. Honestly, is 1:55:08.080 --> 1:55:12.320 is usually the time to shoot. If the buck crashes 1:55:12.360 --> 1:55:15.080 the decoy, there's no guarantee you that you're gonna get 1:55:15.080 --> 1:55:18.840 a shot and at what distance because he'll jump away. 1:55:18.960 --> 1:55:21.920 Sometimes he keeps running and never stops, and sometimes he 1:55:22.000 --> 1:55:23.960 jumps away twenty yards and all of a sudden, if 1:55:23.960 --> 1:55:26.680 you have the decoy at twenty yards, now you got 1:55:26.720 --> 1:55:28.880 a forty yard shot and you don't know what angle 1:55:29.000 --> 1:55:29.960 he's gonna So. 1:55:30.440 --> 1:55:32.680 In that video, it's amazing how many of those deer 1:55:33.680 --> 1:55:38.960 eat it because they're expecting resistance. Yeah that's not there. Yeah, 1:55:39.040 --> 1:55:41.440 So they're like running into this thing so hard, and 1:55:41.880 --> 1:55:44.360 you know, they're assuming that there's something that's gonna stop them. 1:55:44.480 --> 1:55:46.520 But then that thing goes and then they go ass 1:55:46.600 --> 1:55:49.480 over tea kettle and just get like this totally like 1:55:49.840 --> 1:55:51.960 but not like if views their toylet like take that. 1:55:53.480 --> 1:55:55.320 Yeah, the then they look back at it like what 1:55:55.440 --> 1:55:55.960 did I just do? 1:55:56.160 --> 1:55:57.640 Like a level that. 1:55:58.240 --> 1:56:01.320 Yeah, I'm good at that. But that's also why we 1:56:01.400 --> 1:56:04.000 encourage people to use the stand instead of the steak, 1:56:04.160 --> 1:56:08.040 because the deer can actually hurt hurt himself on the steak, 1:56:08.520 --> 1:56:12.720 you know, as they crashed the deco. So the stand 1:56:12.800 --> 1:56:16.920 breaks away, everything breaks away, and that's that's the best system. 1:56:17.000 --> 1:56:20.600 And I thought that's all we were selling, is the stand, 1:56:21.120 --> 1:56:25.160 and those were mine wishes and my instructions. And then 1:56:25.200 --> 1:56:27.880 I just found out at the GTM that like, no, 1:56:28.080 --> 1:56:30.160 it comes with a steak, and I'm like, ah, yeah, yeah, 1:56:30.760 --> 1:56:36.040 like i'd really hold now the steak is fiberglass. But 1:56:36.400 --> 1:56:39.640 you know the problem is is that they they could 1:56:39.680 --> 1:56:42.880 hurt their you know, they can hurt their stroke. Crote 1:56:42.880 --> 1:56:45.880 them on it, and then then you have one heard 1:56:45.920 --> 1:56:48.440 it scroll them. Yeah yeah I did. That's kind of 1:56:48.480 --> 1:56:53.000 he became my own fault. Yeah. Well that one was 1:56:53.040 --> 1:56:55.360 a that was a big four point, like a one 1:56:55.440 --> 1:56:59.600 hundred and forty inch four point And then what did 1:56:59.640 --> 1:57:02.920 he do? He grew the next year he grews. I 1:57:03.000 --> 1:57:07.760 can't remember exactly the the timing of all that, because 1:57:08.360 --> 1:57:12.840 he crashed the gear in the fall. And then it's 1:57:12.880 --> 1:57:15.200 like he grew antlers the next year, and they were 1:57:15.240 --> 1:57:18.320 in velvet and then they that was it. That's that's 1:57:18.760 --> 1:57:21.200 that's the uh. They never he never came out of 1:57:21.280 --> 1:57:24.840 velvet ever again. He had his antlers year round and 1:57:25.000 --> 1:57:29.120 they and over the years they crumbled. They got shorter 1:57:29.240 --> 1:57:32.840 and shorter and shorter. And he just got gigantic because 1:57:32.920 --> 1:57:35.720 he didn't go through the rigors of the rut. He 1:57:35.880 --> 1:57:38.080 just ate all the time and he had didn't have 1:57:38.200 --> 1:57:41.800 to put, you know, any of his eating into dealing 1:57:41.880 --> 1:57:44.360 with the rut, you know, So he just got gigantic 1:57:44.440 --> 1:57:45.840 and and he never came out. 1:57:47.400 --> 1:57:50.120 But his antlers didn't get gigantic, only his body did. 1:57:50.320 --> 1:57:50.520 Yeah. 1:57:50.760 --> 1:57:53.120 No, Well, his antlers never grew again, and they actually 1:57:53.120 --> 1:57:55.520 got shorter every day because they got so brittle that 1:57:55.640 --> 1:57:58.640 they would just crumble, the tops of them would crumble down. 1:57:58.920 --> 1:58:01.120 So he hit that decoing. God is nuts caught on 1:58:01.200 --> 1:58:01.560 the steak. 1:58:02.000 --> 1:58:08.000 Well, we are assuming that I've got some videos. I've 1:58:08.000 --> 1:58:10.920 got lots of videos of blacktail bucks crashing the decoy. 1:58:11.480 --> 1:58:13.640 But it happened so fast that I can't tell for sure, 1:58:14.280 --> 1:58:17.600 but it could have been a barb bar fence or something. 1:58:19.040 --> 1:58:20.880 We don't know for sure. It was just one of 1:58:20.960 --> 1:58:23.200 the things that we sort of assume may have happened. 1:58:24.000 --> 1:58:27.000 We don't unless anybody knows of any I don't know 1:58:27.120 --> 1:58:31.440 for sure of anything real bad happening, but it looks 1:58:31.480 --> 1:58:32.640 like for sure something could. 1:58:34.520 --> 1:58:37.360 And then you're working on a female and you're talking 1:58:37.400 --> 1:58:39.560 about her posture, but you kind of you don't want 1:58:39.560 --> 1:58:41.360 to make it that her posture is like too much 1:58:41.400 --> 1:58:43.000 of a good thing, because then a buck might not 1:58:43.120 --> 1:58:43.440 buy it. 1:58:43.920 --> 1:58:44.880 Yeah yeah, So. 1:58:46.680 --> 1:58:49.040 Like herd is standing on the open like just ready 1:58:49.080 --> 1:58:50.440 to roll, it's not what you're after. 1:58:50.960 --> 1:58:53.480 Yeah yeah. So and the same thing we had to 1:58:53.520 --> 1:58:57.160 worry about age too, because if we made her, you know, 1:58:57.280 --> 1:59:01.640 a big giant mature dough, then you know, there are 1:59:01.840 --> 1:59:06.400 a lot of does would would you know, blow out 1:59:06.440 --> 1:59:11.160 her and and that could cause a lot of problems 1:59:11.200 --> 1:59:14.160 and stuff like that. So so she's she's also supposed 1:59:14.200 --> 1:59:16.920 to be she's supposed to look like she's just of 1:59:17.080 --> 1:59:21.240 breeding age, like just old enough to to breed without 1:59:21.320 --> 1:59:23.480 being like a big old, you know horse face like 1:59:24.440 --> 1:59:28.040 you know, dominant dough and then yeah, her body posture, 1:59:28.160 --> 1:59:33.080 she's mostly standing and relax and stuff. But but yeah, 1:59:33.280 --> 1:59:35.240 just a little hint she's dropped down in the rear 1:59:35.480 --> 1:59:38.040 a little bit kind of look you know, kind of 1:59:38.080 --> 1:59:42.280 look like it could happen here. Yeah, and maybe yeah 1:59:42.360 --> 1:59:44.840 it's where the and you know those bucks like they 1:59:45.280 --> 1:59:47.560 like blacktail bucks. I can't wait to use on blacktails 1:59:47.600 --> 1:59:51.080 because blacktails if I mean one of the primary areas 1:59:51.120 --> 1:59:52.800 that I had blacktails that I think last year there 1:59:52.880 --> 1:59:55.560 was like twenty twenty two bucks and two dos. So 1:59:56.200 --> 1:59:58.640 if you if you use a but a you know, 1:59:58.840 --> 2:00:00.920 a buck decoy hasn't been very effective there, but a 2:00:01.040 --> 2:00:03.640 dough decoy, like any blacktail buck will just come running 2:00:04.040 --> 2:00:06.040 right up to it, because if they see a dough, 2:00:06.720 --> 2:00:08.640 I mean, they just come running up up to it 2:00:08.760 --> 2:00:10.960 right away. Like there. You know, it's like we've all 2:00:11.040 --> 2:00:12.680 been there. You know, it's like you get desperate. 2:00:14.360 --> 2:00:16.480 So it's like Bosman twelve years ago. 2:00:17.560 --> 2:00:25.600 Yeah, and she you know, I've had some some people 2:00:25.760 --> 2:00:27.760 tell me that I've seen her like like, oh my gosh, 2:00:27.800 --> 2:00:29.720 you should have had her in the full squatting position, 2:00:29.920 --> 2:00:33.400 you know, like and I don't one hundred percent agree 2:00:33.440 --> 2:00:37.080 with that. Just because you know, the dough stands. He 2:00:37.640 --> 2:00:40.600 the dough stands to be bred really only when the 2:00:40.640 --> 2:00:44.760 buck is right right on her. So so for her 2:00:44.840 --> 2:00:47.000 to be standing, you know, standing to be bred, it 2:00:47.120 --> 2:00:52.080 might not look so much standing almost squatting. Yeah, it's 2:00:52.440 --> 2:00:55.560 it's a little low. It's lower than our than our decoy. 2:00:55.640 --> 2:00:57.760 And you know, like what we were saying is it 2:00:57.800 --> 2:00:59.640 could end up looking like she's just like taking a 2:00:59.680 --> 2:01:01.240 ship or whatever. And so if she's out in the 2:01:01.280 --> 2:01:03.280 middle and like, oh, there's a dope, Oh she's taking 2:01:03.320 --> 2:01:05.720 a ship, It's like, I don't know, I mean, that's 2:01:06.360 --> 2:01:08.360 might not be the most appealing thing or whatever, but 2:01:08.480 --> 2:01:10.920 I know a black seal buck would charge heright in there. 2:01:11.400 --> 2:01:12.880 You sell what you're doing. 2:01:13.160 --> 2:01:15.080 You sell the pelletsers on. 2:01:15.600 --> 2:01:17.280 She can't ship, she can't ship forever. 2:01:27.080 --> 2:01:30.040 Two questions earlier, you said in Buffalo County, it would 2:01:30.120 --> 2:01:33.080 make these bucks come out that otherwise would not have 2:01:33.200 --> 2:01:36.400 come out in daylight. Yeah, can you explain that a 2:01:36.400 --> 2:01:37.800 little bit more because I'm trying to figure out, like 2:01:37.880 --> 2:01:40.000 how do they get the like did they place them 2:01:40.040 --> 2:01:41.640 where the buck could see the. 2:01:43.760 --> 2:01:44.040 Bluff? 2:01:44.400 --> 2:01:48.560 Yeah, so that's bluff country and in Buffalo county. So 2:01:48.720 --> 2:01:51.360 it's a lot of there's ag and then there's you know, 2:01:51.560 --> 2:01:53.800 rocky rocky bluffs all around it, and that the deer 2:01:53.840 --> 2:01:56.280 all we don't go up into the and we don't 2:01:56.320 --> 2:01:59.640 go up really, we don't go more than fifty yards 2:02:00.360 --> 2:02:03.240 into that ever. I mean, not even for chad hunting 2:02:03.320 --> 2:02:05.400 or anything like. Like literally there's so munch of that 2:02:05.520 --> 2:02:08.960 that know human that's a sanctuary. Yeah, that's a sanctuary, yep. 2:02:09.080 --> 2:02:11.600 And so their cruise along that edge, they look down 2:02:11.640 --> 2:02:13.280 in the field, they see the decoy. 2:02:13.480 --> 2:02:16.320 Yeah, but you know, those those cruising bucks don't look. 2:02:16.800 --> 2:02:20.280 They are just they just do not know. Look. Yeah, yeah, 2:02:20.360 --> 2:02:23.960 they'll yeah, they're all scent checking areas and stuff. And 2:02:24.040 --> 2:02:28.200 sometimes they will literally be on the other side of 2:02:28.400 --> 2:02:31.200 the top of the bluff then that the way that 2:02:31.280 --> 2:02:33.520 the wind comes up the bluff and it curls and stuff. 2:02:33.560 --> 2:02:35.480 It's it's kind of kind of crazy what they do, 2:02:35.640 --> 2:02:38.400 but but they are betted, and they do get up 2:02:38.440 --> 2:02:41.240 occasionally because they know they're in such a sanctuary that 2:02:41.800 --> 2:02:43.800 they know that they're safe and everything like that. They 2:02:43.840 --> 2:02:46.000 get up and feed a little bit, and they're betted 2:02:46.040 --> 2:02:48.480 and stuff like that, and they might watch you set 2:02:48.560 --> 2:02:51.200 up the decoy and then like I mean, and some 2:02:51.320 --> 2:02:54.920 of that is assuming because you know you can't you 2:02:55.000 --> 2:02:58.080 can't really see them up there. And then but you 2:02:58.240 --> 2:03:00.560 are in a big, wide open field. Yeah. Yeah, you 2:03:00.720 --> 2:03:03.280 drove up in a bad boy buggy and you get 2:03:03.560 --> 2:03:05.600 get the decoy out and everything, and you do it 2:03:05.680 --> 2:03:09.480 early enough in the in the afternoon, you know, And 2:03:09.600 --> 2:03:12.000 then that's at the times and when they would be 2:03:12.040 --> 2:03:13.560 able to see you. But otherwise it would be in 2:03:13.640 --> 2:03:18.480 the in the mornings when it's dark. And but there's 2:03:18.480 --> 2:03:20.640 times when we don't really want to do that either too, 2:03:20.680 --> 2:03:24.280 because in the mornings, in the dark, those bucks are 2:03:24.360 --> 2:03:26.200 moving or moving around and they're down on the bottom. 2:03:26.280 --> 2:03:28.320 Just like with blacktail hunting, I don't even hunt mornings. 2:03:28.840 --> 2:03:30.960 I give them the mornings. I don't. I do not 2:03:31.120 --> 2:03:33.680 like going in my tree stand or ground blind and 2:03:33.800 --> 2:03:35.800 bumping deer out or anything like that. I go in 2:03:35.880 --> 2:03:38.200 in the middle of the day and sit till dark, 2:03:38.240 --> 2:03:40.200 because I can get out of a stand with deer 2:03:40.400 --> 2:03:43.760 around at dark, but I can't get into a stand 2:03:44.560 --> 2:03:46.360 in the mornings with the dark. And I think that's 2:03:46.400 --> 2:03:48.680 one of the biggest problems that people have with blacktails 2:03:48.680 --> 2:03:49.160 and that's. 2:03:49.040 --> 2:03:51.280 How I've I want to come out and hunt blacktails 2:03:51.320 --> 2:03:52.160 with you, man, man. 2:03:52.240 --> 2:03:56.280 Yeah, come on out, Like there's the the way that 2:03:56.440 --> 2:03:59.720 I've finally cracked it the code is by getting permission 2:03:59.760 --> 2:04:03.760 on good private properties, because some of the public stuff 2:04:03.880 --> 2:04:06.160 is just kind of horrible or burnt to the ground. 2:04:07.000 --> 2:04:11.280 But I spent six six years writing over one hundred 2:04:11.360 --> 2:04:15.240 letters a year in the spring and ended up with 2:04:15.360 --> 2:04:17.400 some with some pretty good properties. I just have to 2:04:17.480 --> 2:04:20.320 kind of get the okay, the okay from the landowners 2:04:20.360 --> 2:04:22.160 and stuff. But I mean, some of them are just 2:04:22.320 --> 2:04:26.120 super great, great people. And yeah, blacktails are super fun. 2:04:26.160 --> 2:04:30.080 They're not They're not as smart and cagy and difficult 2:04:30.120 --> 2:04:32.760 as white tails, so they're not nearly as like those 2:04:32.840 --> 2:04:36.000 Midwest white tails are crazy when it comes to human 2:04:36.080 --> 2:04:38.600 scent and encroachment and pressure and all that stuff. And 2:04:38.640 --> 2:04:41.480 they are just super super smart. And everybody that hunt 2:04:41.520 --> 2:04:44.480 blacktails assumes and it always wants to believe that blacktails 2:04:44.520 --> 2:04:47.560 are the smartest, most cage just thing. The thing about 2:04:47.560 --> 2:04:51.880 blacktails is they're hearing is really really good. So the clothing, 2:04:52.080 --> 2:04:54.560 you know, has to be unbelievably quiet to get your 2:04:54.960 --> 2:04:57.400 get your bow drawn. And then the other thing is 2:04:57.640 --> 2:05:00.160 that they just don't come out in the daytime, know, 2:05:00.360 --> 2:05:02.760 like white tails do. But other than that they are 2:05:03.120 --> 2:05:06.720 very forgiving, like I could like and I can't hunt 2:05:06.760 --> 2:05:08.920 the same tree stand in the Midwest, you know, more 2:05:09.000 --> 2:05:12.600 than two times probably for white tails and it's done, 2:05:12.720 --> 2:05:16.280 you've burned it probably for the season. But with blacktails, 2:05:16.320 --> 2:05:19.040 I've I've hunted the same tree stand like seven seven 2:05:19.120 --> 2:05:21.080 days in a row. So you can get away with 2:05:21.200 --> 2:05:25.080 murder with with blacktails, you just need you just need 2:05:25.160 --> 2:05:27.960 them to come out during the day. That's the hardest. 2:05:28.080 --> 2:05:31.320 That's the lot, that's really the difficult part about them. 2:05:32.040 --> 2:05:35.360 How do you deal with the scent issue around running 2:05:35.360 --> 2:05:36.240 a deer decoy? 2:05:37.000 --> 2:05:40.520 Well, so the most important thing is that it's it's 2:05:41.280 --> 2:05:45.920 been manufactured long long enough and it's aired out long 2:05:46.040 --> 2:05:50.760 enough since it's been manufactured. So that's that's the biggest thing. 2:05:50.880 --> 2:05:53.040 And then you don't touch it with your hands. So 2:05:53.120 --> 2:05:58.080 your dear decoy will work. It'll work reasonably good. If 2:05:58.120 --> 2:06:01.520 you buy one in July and then air it out 2:06:01.800 --> 2:06:04.160 and everything, it's gonna work good. But it will work. 2:06:04.520 --> 2:06:06.840 It's like a like a mink box or something. It'll 2:06:07.000 --> 2:06:12.040 work better every year as it gets older, more earthy, yeah, 2:06:12.200 --> 2:06:15.960 more earthy and and and scent free and everything with that, 2:06:16.040 --> 2:06:18.280 and you just don't touch it with uh, don't touch 2:06:18.280 --> 2:06:21.240 it with your bare hands, and you know, don't don't 2:06:21.400 --> 2:06:23.760 don't breathe on it, and then don't you don't ever 2:06:23.880 --> 2:06:25.680 put scent on it. You know, if you want to 2:06:25.760 --> 2:06:28.280 use any kind of scent, you put it, you know, 2:06:28.520 --> 2:06:30.640 under the decoy or near the decoy or something like that. 2:06:30.800 --> 2:06:33.680 But you keep the decoy sent free because if you 2:06:33.760 --> 2:06:37.560 put scent on it, you know that that'll get kind 2:06:37.600 --> 2:06:39.880 of rancid over time and stuff. But you also don't 2:06:39.920 --> 2:06:41.960 put scent all over the ground or anything like that, 2:06:42.080 --> 2:06:44.880 because then then you can't pull that scent with you 2:06:45.040 --> 2:06:49.320 when you leave. I mean that That's what's worked for me, 2:06:51.240 --> 2:06:54.000 is I'll put scent you know, like in a in 2:06:54.080 --> 2:06:58.080 a bottle or with you know, with cotton or whatever 2:06:58.120 --> 2:07:01.440 you got to do, and just open it underneath the decoy. 2:07:01.600 --> 2:07:04.600 That's when I do use scent. It doesn't matter that much, 2:07:04.720 --> 2:07:07.640 I mean, Or I'll put tarsus, you know, tarsus glands, 2:07:07.920 --> 2:07:10.920 tarsal glands from a from a buck. That does work 2:07:10.960 --> 2:07:13.840 at times pretty pretty pretty darn well with black tails. 2:07:15.480 --> 2:07:19.360 If you were listened to Clay's Bear Grease podcast. No, 2:07:19.840 --> 2:07:21.800 he had an episode called Deer Stories, and there's a 2:07:21.840 --> 2:07:23.760 guy that tells a story about shooting the buck and 2:07:23.800 --> 2:07:26.560 taking the glands off and tying the glands to his ankles, 2:07:27.960 --> 2:07:30.080 and he gets his ass kicked by a buck. 2:07:30.320 --> 2:07:32.520 Yeah, I probably wouldn't. 2:07:32.640 --> 2:07:36.120 Realize this buck is coming down his trail and is 2:07:36.200 --> 2:07:38.920 coming for him. Oh geez, it's a funny story. 2:07:38.960 --> 2:07:40.360 Well it could have. That could have been way worse, 2:07:40.400 --> 2:07:43.600 because that could have been like dough dough in heat scent. 2:07:44.000 --> 2:07:47.600 You know, like, as long as it the buck just wanted. 2:07:47.360 --> 2:07:51.280 To kill him, that's not as humiliating. 2:07:53.520 --> 2:07:54.600 Yeah, he can he can. 2:07:54.560 --> 2:07:57.640 Live, So David, when you're sitting like say, I'm sitting 2:07:57.640 --> 2:07:59.760 in a tree stand facing a field and I want 2:07:59.800 --> 2:08:02.320 to put decoy out, how do I place that decoy 2:08:02.440 --> 2:08:03.120 for the best. 2:08:03.240 --> 2:08:09.800 Shot, I mean like maybe quartering away and but that 2:08:10.120 --> 2:08:13.280 just that just depends like a quartering quartering away would 2:08:13.280 --> 2:08:17.200 be with a dough and and and then possibly quartering 2:08:17.240 --> 2:08:18.080 two with a buck. 2:08:18.760 --> 2:08:21.760 But I'll tell you what, right, wind dependent? 2:08:22.760 --> 2:08:25.480 Yeah, it's wind dependent. Yeah, they'll they'll try to they'll 2:08:25.520 --> 2:08:27.920 try to get down window, try to get down wind 2:08:27.960 --> 2:08:30.600 of it and stuff, and so with a buck, you know, 2:08:30.720 --> 2:08:36.160 quartering two works pretty good, but there is no guarantee whatsoever, 2:08:36.480 --> 2:08:40.120 Like anytime you think that you know how they're going 2:08:40.200 --> 2:08:43.520 to approach it. Like people, the the idea of quartering 2:08:43.560 --> 2:08:46.400 two is the idea of behind behind that is that 2:08:46.440 --> 2:08:50.360 they'll come and come head on. They just don't do that. 2:08:50.600 --> 2:08:53.160 I mean they don't. They definitely don't do that with 2:08:53.280 --> 2:08:57.200 any major consistency because the the the way to do 2:08:57.400 --> 2:09:00.520 damage is to ram one like completely on the on 2:09:00.600 --> 2:09:03.800 the side in the root cage, and so there's just 2:09:03.920 --> 2:09:08.000 a lot of deer Decoying is just super fun because 2:09:08.840 --> 2:09:11.600 it's not a guaranteed thing. There's there's certain things that 2:09:11.680 --> 2:09:13.520 it does for you, like you can get your bodrawn 2:09:14.320 --> 2:09:20.920 so easily, like when you're using a buck decoy because 2:09:20.920 --> 2:09:25.880 they're just so distracted. But there's also the downsides and 2:09:25.960 --> 2:09:28.440 that is like you're not sure you're gonna gonna get 2:09:28.440 --> 2:09:31.040 a good shot or whatever. But I think quartering two 2:09:31.200 --> 2:09:33.880 is probably the best. And that's assuming that you have 2:09:34.040 --> 2:09:35.400 the wind more or less in your face. 2:09:35.760 --> 2:09:36.120 Gotcha? 2:09:36.160 --> 2:09:41.360 Will you hunt them in like woodland, forested terrain or 2:09:41.720 --> 2:09:45.480 you always sticking to more of an open fuel type 2:09:45.520 --> 2:09:48.680 place where deer can see it as from far away 2:09:48.720 --> 2:09:49.360 as possible. 2:09:49.640 --> 2:09:56.280 So I have I've set up for blacktails in old 2:09:56.360 --> 2:10:01.160 growth timber, but not successful, not success. I've tried it 2:10:01.320 --> 2:10:06.560 in the in the woods, but the best successes that 2:10:06.680 --> 2:10:10.280 I've that I've had and I'm not majorly into deer decoying. 2:10:10.360 --> 2:10:13.360 I will be now that now that we have a dough, 2:10:15.200 --> 2:10:17.400 But the best successes that I have have been on 2:10:17.480 --> 2:10:20.880 the edge of a where ag meets meets timber. And 2:10:21.280 --> 2:10:24.800 that's the same with blacktails too. Meadowee Meadowee areas and stuff. 2:10:24.880 --> 2:10:28.040 I'm old old a man and orchard that I hunt. 2:10:28.480 --> 2:10:32.160 I've had success with the blacktail decoy there. But with 2:10:32.320 --> 2:10:35.360 white tails, I mean I've had it to where they're 2:10:35.400 --> 2:10:37.160 coming along through the woods and all of a sudden 2:10:37.160 --> 2:10:38.440 they see it and they kind of it kind of 2:10:39.160 --> 2:10:41.680 kind of startles them a little bit, because yeah, I mean, 2:10:41.720 --> 2:10:45.720 it's just I mean, it's it's just like we were 2:10:45.720 --> 2:10:48.160 talking about with the antelope blind and stuff. It's just 2:10:48.240 --> 2:10:50.839 better if they can see it from a distance away. 2:10:51.120 --> 2:10:53.640 But have you used it in conjunction with rattling where 2:10:53.680 --> 2:10:56.400 they're expecting to find something standing there. That's what I 2:10:56.480 --> 2:10:59.920 feel like the real value would be is he's coming in, 2:11:00.480 --> 2:11:01.920 but then all of a sudden like oh there it is. 2:11:02.480 --> 2:11:07.040 Yeah, I mean I have but like my gosh, one 2:11:07.080 --> 2:11:09.680 of my hunting partners justin Kasmar, he gets so mad 2:11:09.720 --> 2:11:12.480 at me because I'll go sometimes the whole season without rattling. 2:11:12.640 --> 2:11:14.920 Rattling is super fun. And I've rattled in some nice 2:11:14.960 --> 2:11:17.280 bucks and shot some with my bow in the in 2:11:17.320 --> 2:11:22.920 the upper Clackamus and that's public land blacktails. But I 2:11:23.160 --> 2:11:26.200 like now that I'm hunting more down in the valley, 2:11:27.320 --> 2:11:30.560 I treat all my goose hunting has taught me that everything, 2:11:31.080 --> 2:11:34.760 everything about goose hunting is not educating animals. That's what 2:11:34.920 --> 2:11:37.880 goose hunting. That's still that's the trick of the whole thing. 2:11:37.960 --> 2:11:40.920 And so so now that's affected all my other hunting. 2:11:40.960 --> 2:11:44.160 So that's why I mean, I've like on elk hunting, 2:11:44.200 --> 2:11:46.440 I've shot some big bulls and I've even got some 2:11:46.800 --> 2:11:49.720 you know, by by calling and stuff. But I've got 2:11:50.080 --> 2:11:52.160 more auditory stand on ground, bline and everything like that, 2:11:52.320 --> 2:11:54.360 like all, and I would be a way better elk 2:11:54.440 --> 2:11:58.560 hunter if I was willing to move into those those 2:11:58.640 --> 2:12:01.840 areas and move where I need to. But I'm just 2:12:02.000 --> 2:12:04.840 so about staying on the perimeter, staying out of those 2:12:05.000 --> 2:12:08.840 creepy you know Heidi holes, out of those bedrooms, and 2:12:09.480 --> 2:12:12.919 giving them all kinds of space and all kinds of refuge. 2:12:12.960 --> 2:12:15.480 Give him the mornings, give him, give them tons of 2:12:15.520 --> 2:12:18.760 space and the the It bites me in the ass 2:12:18.800 --> 2:12:22.760 at times, for sure. But what what I love about 2:12:22.800 --> 2:12:26.680 it is if you don't if you don't kill one, 2:12:27.000 --> 2:12:28.960 you have the next day and the next day and 2:12:29.040 --> 2:12:30.080 the next day and the next day. 2:12:30.400 --> 2:12:32.800 You should write a hunting book like Dunk and Gil 2:12:32.880 --> 2:12:33.920 Chris book Hunt High. 2:12:35.800 --> 2:12:37.560 I've never knowing that. 2:12:37.680 --> 2:12:39.800 Well I shouldn't say that, but anyway, what. 2:12:39.800 --> 2:12:40.520 Would it be called? 2:12:42.840 --> 2:12:43.560 Hunt the Perimeter? 2:12:44.440 --> 2:12:47.320 Well, see, the thing about Hunt High is just so 2:12:47.440 --> 2:12:50.000 it's a lifelong hunter and it's just all these like 2:12:50.200 --> 2:12:58.560 really just general pieces of information. One minute he's talking 2:12:58.560 --> 2:13:00.400 about is can't how he likes there's that up as 2:13:00.440 --> 2:13:02.040 camp stove next to me. He's talking about the way 2:13:02.120 --> 2:13:06.920 mountain goats act. But just it's just gold all through 2:13:07.000 --> 2:13:09.960 the whole thing, just random. He kind of accidentally writes, 2:13:10.000 --> 2:13:13.840 like hemingway, it just it's just a page upon page 2:13:13.880 --> 2:13:19.400 of just gold ruminations from a fairy seasoned hunter and 2:13:19.480 --> 2:13:20.920 a lot of stuff. You're like, I haven't thought about 2:13:20.960 --> 2:13:22.880 that that way before. I haven't thought about that way before. 2:13:23.360 --> 2:13:24.840 You know, you got a lot of that stuff laid 2:13:24.920 --> 2:13:25.200 up in you. 2:13:25.360 --> 2:13:26.760 I want to read it. I want to read that. 2:13:27.480 --> 2:13:28.480 What was funny? Man is? 2:13:29.120 --> 2:13:29.520 Yeah? Good? 2:13:29.640 --> 2:13:31.720 He's dead, So check this out. He's dead and he's 2:13:31.720 --> 2:13:34.920 self published these books. And and when I started talking 2:13:34.960 --> 2:13:36.800 about and I always put him on like favorite book 2:13:36.840 --> 2:13:39.520 lists and all that huh high. And it got to 2:13:39.560 --> 2:13:40.840 me where if you wanted to buy one, it was 2:13:41.040 --> 2:13:44.839 hundreds of dollars because we'd driven a lot of interest. 2:13:45.120 --> 2:13:47.120 One day I lent mine to someone and someone took 2:13:47.160 --> 2:13:49.640 it and never gave it back. So I went online 2:13:49.680 --> 2:13:52.560 and bought one for one hundred bucks from some dude 2:13:53.000 --> 2:13:57.160 in Texas. And I just buy it on Amazon unused books, 2:13:57.520 --> 2:13:59.800 and it comes with a sticky note on it that says, dude, 2:13:59.840 --> 2:14:01.160 you're the reason I bought this book. 2:14:01.960 --> 2:14:07.960 Wow, that's cool. Yeah that worth worth. Matthewsons has lent 2:14:08.040 --> 2:14:11.120 me a couple of books about the early Martin Trappers 2:14:11.800 --> 2:14:16.320 and Wayne Nigs and Pouli Rossboro and Martin I have 2:14:16.520 --> 2:14:19.280 known is one of them. And it's the same thing. 2:14:19.360 --> 2:14:21.880 You go to try to find those books like Worth 2:14:22.000 --> 2:14:24.200 lent me one of them and gave me he gave 2:14:24.280 --> 2:14:27.160 me the other. But yeah, trying to find those books 2:14:27.200 --> 2:14:31.640 on Amazon U this is next time possible. But I 2:14:31.720 --> 2:14:33.920 sure would like to get more and more copies. Those 2:14:34.000 --> 2:14:35.400 books are incredible. 2:14:36.120 --> 2:14:37.840 Let me hit you with one last one before we end. 2:14:41.040 --> 2:14:43.880 If you not place in Turkey decoys properly, do you 2:14:43.920 --> 2:14:48.640 think you'd be doing more damage than than good? Meaning 2:14:48.720 --> 2:14:51.200 you got a gobbler, he's coming in right, Can you 2:14:51.280 --> 2:14:52.920 ever have it be that it'd be just better not 2:14:53.040 --> 2:14:55.080 even to use the damn thing than to have it 2:14:55.200 --> 2:14:56.400 set the way you have it set. 2:14:56.640 --> 2:14:59.760 You mean because because he's going to be searching and covering. 2:15:00.320 --> 2:15:02.720 Do you know, because you would put your decoy out 2:15:02.800 --> 2:15:04.680 in such a manner or in such a pose and 2:15:05.280 --> 2:15:08.000 position that when he sees it, he's like, what that's 2:15:08.040 --> 2:15:09.600 not what that ends supposed to be doing. I'm out 2:15:09.600 --> 2:15:09.840 of here. 2:15:10.680 --> 2:15:11.680 Oh, let me let me. 2:15:11.680 --> 2:15:15.920 Phrase it a different way. How important is placement over 2:15:16.160 --> 2:15:17.760 just having the presence be there? 2:15:18.600 --> 2:15:23.000 Well, I've only ever done it the right way, so no, 2:15:23.720 --> 2:15:29.120 I don't. I don't know. I mean, I just you know, 2:15:29.240 --> 2:15:32.840 you can. You can screw up goose decoys really bad, 2:15:33.080 --> 2:15:37.440 really bad because yeah placement. Yeah, you can have them 2:15:37.480 --> 2:15:40.320 all face into the wind. You can have them crooked 2:15:40.400 --> 2:15:43.560 on their steaks, you can have them spread way too 2:15:43.640 --> 2:15:46.520 far apart. And people do all of those things all 2:15:46.560 --> 2:15:49.560 the time, and it can make a huge, huge, huge difference. 2:15:50.120 --> 2:15:53.360 On turkeys. I mean, I haven't really found a really 2:15:53.520 --> 2:15:56.240 wrong way. I I haven't seen any spreads from our 2:15:56.920 --> 2:15:59.160 from our customers where I looked at it and just went, 2:15:59.720 --> 2:16:05.040 you know, like I I think you know, because turkeys 2:16:05.080 --> 2:16:11.200 are they're they're a little different than geese, and I 2:16:11.360 --> 2:16:14.000 I'm sure there is a wrong way to do it, but. 2:16:14.360 --> 2:16:18.280 There's not as sensitive safe to say just basically what 2:16:18.320 --> 2:16:20.920 you're telling me. It's not as sensitive as waterfoul placement. 2:16:21.040 --> 2:16:22.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. 2:16:22.480 --> 2:16:24.360 I mean you think it's as an end, But you 2:16:24.400 --> 2:16:26.360 wouldn't say the same thing about deer. You think there 2:16:26.480 --> 2:16:29.120 is a you found that there is like the wrong 2:16:29.240 --> 2:16:33.680 place and wrong way to set deer decoys. Well, I 2:16:33.760 --> 2:16:35.279 mean you don't like them in timber. 2:16:35.800 --> 2:16:38.640 Yeah, I don't like them in timber, but I probably 2:16:38.720 --> 2:16:42.480 need to experiment more on that and stuff. So I 2:16:42.560 --> 2:16:46.200 wouldn't consider myself to be an authority on that. And 2:16:46.320 --> 2:16:51.760 I like to experiment a lot. And and the animals 2:16:51.879 --> 2:16:55.920 always surprise me. You know. Every time I think that 2:16:56.000 --> 2:17:00.640 there's a rule, they the animals show me otherwise. 2:17:02.720 --> 2:17:03.200 I know that. 2:17:03.680 --> 2:17:07.560 You know, there's times there's times when using a strutter 2:17:08.760 --> 2:17:13.640 like a like let's see, i'd say there's times when 2:17:13.760 --> 2:17:16.160 using hens only has helped me make some good shots 2:17:16.280 --> 2:17:19.560 with my bow because the birds came in strutting. And 2:17:19.640 --> 2:17:23.360 then there's times when when using uh, you know, a 2:17:23.400 --> 2:17:28.959 gobbler decoys has made me miss some pretty important birds 2:17:29.000 --> 2:17:30.560 like that would have really meant a lot to me. 2:17:31.640 --> 2:17:34.800 And I couldn't get my boat my bow drawn, or 2:17:34.840 --> 2:17:37.560 I couldn't came hot on it came into hot. They'll 2:17:37.600 --> 2:17:40.160 also come in and just put off, and you're thinking 2:17:40.240 --> 2:17:42.280 what I do wrong? And after a while, I didn't 2:17:42.280 --> 2:17:44.520 do anything wrong. He saw that thing and didn't like it. 2:17:45.720 --> 2:17:50.039 You know, idea that happens, man, I know it does. 2:17:50.240 --> 2:17:52.560 I know I surprised him before. Where they come over, 2:17:52.720 --> 2:17:55.840 you have your decoy up, They come over a little 2:17:56.280 --> 2:17:59.800 knoll or something too close. They see that they don't 2:17:59.800 --> 2:18:00.840 feel like duking it out. 2:18:01.040 --> 2:18:03.200 Yeah, oh yeah, totally. Well. And I've had I've had 2:18:03.200 --> 2:18:07.280 blacktail bucksty that where they stepped out one hundred yards 2:18:07.320 --> 2:18:09.920 away and saw the decoy and I was just like, 2:18:10.040 --> 2:18:12.160 oh my god, it's it's happening. And I'm getting back, 2:18:12.160 --> 2:18:14.480 putting my release on and everything, and I'm all excited, 2:18:14.520 --> 2:18:16.760 and I'm just waiting and waiting and waiting, and I 2:18:16.840 --> 2:18:19.600 look and I look and expecting him to be, you know, 2:18:19.720 --> 2:18:23.039 real close, and now he's high high tailing it away. Definitely. 2:18:23.480 --> 2:18:25.160 I mean, you see a lot of them plow in 2:18:26.000 --> 2:18:28.880 to beat that thing to death. But it does happen 2:18:28.920 --> 2:18:31.400 where they put off and they, like I used to 2:18:31.400 --> 2:18:33.800 think in Neville Ice, think that we spooked that bird. 2:18:33.959 --> 2:18:36.840 Someone moves, someone spooked that bird. But the turkey bile 2:18:37.000 --> 2:18:40.800 just Robert Abernathy, who's a very experienced decoy, yeah, has 2:18:40.840 --> 2:18:42.080 been decoying for a long time. 2:18:42.280 --> 2:18:42.480 Yep. 2:18:42.600 --> 2:18:45.080 He's convinced too. He says, I think sometimes those birds 2:18:45.120 --> 2:18:49.440 come in, they see that, they see that gobbler, and 2:18:49.520 --> 2:18:52.280 they don't like it well, and they're putting off. They're 2:18:52.320 --> 2:18:55.080 putting off or just ghosting out because of that presence. 2:18:55.160 --> 2:18:56.760 He still uses it, but he says that's the thing 2:18:56.800 --> 2:18:57.199 that happens. 2:18:57.280 --> 2:18:59.680 Yeah, I agree one hundred percent. And also you just 2:18:59.800 --> 2:19:03.080 never know what what that decoy represents. It could be 2:19:03.400 --> 2:19:05.880 could represent a bird that he's already familiar with and 2:19:06.080 --> 2:19:11.039 is already you know, uh lower lower on the hierarchy level. 2:19:11.240 --> 2:19:13.360 Then like he hears a hen, he comes in and 2:19:13.400 --> 2:19:16.520 be like, daw damn it, Gobbler's already here, Billy's here. 2:19:18.360 --> 2:19:18.800 Last week. 2:19:19.959 --> 2:19:22.959 My answer to that is went in doubt. Well, for one, 2:19:23.080 --> 2:19:24.960 you know, you use a lot of hens and a 2:19:25.040 --> 2:19:28.760 lot of like praining hens and feeding hens. That always 2:19:28.959 --> 2:19:31.600 looks makes everything look you know, relaxed and stuff. And 2:19:31.680 --> 2:19:33.960 even if there's a gobbler there. And then also you know, 2:19:34.760 --> 2:19:39.080 like our three quarter strut jake, which is actually a 2:19:39.120 --> 2:19:41.480 half strut jake and somehow it got named a three 2:19:41.520 --> 2:19:45.840 quarter shrut jake. But that's for another day. But but 2:19:46.000 --> 2:19:47.840 that's a good decoy to use with a bunch of 2:19:47.920 --> 2:19:52.600 hens because it looks a little less intimidating and and 2:19:52.920 --> 2:19:55.680 it just looks like, well, I mean, I've had so 2:19:55.840 --> 2:19:58.920 many times when uh gobblers will come in that I 2:19:59.080 --> 2:20:01.640 know are even a mature tom that I know is 2:20:01.720 --> 2:20:05.040 not really a dominant bird. And even with even with 2:20:05.200 --> 2:20:08.920 the jake there, they just come in slow enough and 2:20:09.040 --> 2:20:11.760 then before I know, they're mounting one of the one 2:20:11.800 --> 2:20:15.120 of the decoys. And you can also put a submissive 2:20:15.160 --> 2:20:18.560 Hannah distance away, like so he's not necessarily standing over 2:20:18.600 --> 2:20:20.600 her and stuff. So it feels like there's always a 2:20:20.640 --> 2:20:23.959 combination that will give you the best chance. But there's 2:20:23.959 --> 2:20:27.400 always going to be situations for just you've slat and I'm. 2:20:27.240 --> 2:20:31.280 Glad our body guys Uck's who's very seasoned turkey hunter. 2:20:32.959 --> 2:20:34.800 He has a little rule. He like, he's not the 2:20:34.879 --> 2:20:36.560 kind of guy that believes that everything is, you know, 2:20:36.680 --> 2:20:38.520 one way or the other. But he has a little 2:20:38.560 --> 2:20:40.520 rule for himself. He don't set a male decoy in 2:20:40.560 --> 2:20:43.960 the evening because he's like, they're just not in that mood. 2:20:44.000 --> 2:20:46.200 I don't think. Yeah, he goes, you're just less like 2:20:46.400 --> 2:20:48.640 he finds in the evening. You're less likely to get 2:20:48.680 --> 2:20:52.440 that I'm gonna kick that thing's ass response in the 2:20:52.600 --> 2:20:54.880 evening and you're more likely to push him off. And 2:20:54.959 --> 2:20:57.760 he likes hens in the evening because they're just more mingly. 2:20:58.760 --> 2:21:00.600 You know, he might want to find them to the 2:21:00.720 --> 2:21:03.400 roost whatever. But they're not wanting to deal with the 2:21:03.400 --> 2:21:06.040 big old strutter at night. Yeah, that's just his take 2:21:06.120 --> 2:21:06.520 on it. Right. 2:21:06.840 --> 2:21:10.560 So I have killed some some big mature toms, like 2:21:10.800 --> 2:21:13.360 where it was like literally in the last five minutes 2:21:13.400 --> 2:21:17.160 of shooting time, and and I've had them go one 2:21:17.200 --> 2:21:18.960 hundred yards out of their way to come up to 2:21:19.000 --> 2:21:21.600 the decoys. But the lesson that I've learned, and I've 2:21:21.640 --> 2:21:25.520 got burned multiple times doing it, is they'll come up 2:21:25.600 --> 2:21:28.280 and they'll jump on They'll they'll jump at the decoy 2:21:28.959 --> 2:21:31.760 one time and then I'm like thinking, Okay, here we go. 2:21:31.879 --> 2:21:34.240 It's gonna it's just gonna thrash the decoy for the 2:21:34.320 --> 2:21:37.760 longest time and I'm gonna have this perfect shot. They'll 2:21:37.800 --> 2:21:39.960 jump on the decoy one time and they're about done. 2:21:40.879 --> 2:21:43.120 That's it. Like, it's just I agree with without one 2:21:43.200 --> 2:21:46.480 hundred percent. And that's if they even jump at the decoy. 2:21:46.560 --> 2:21:49.800 Sometimes they'll come up, but I mean there's in the evening, Yeah, 2:21:49.879 --> 2:21:52.160 in the evenings, late at night, it's just and that's 2:21:52.480 --> 2:21:55.520 only when it's a if there is a if there's 2:21:55.560 --> 2:21:58.280 a tom that is the absolute boss and he's got 2:21:58.360 --> 2:22:00.760 lots of hens and he's gonna go up to roost 2:22:01.280 --> 2:22:04.480 and he sees uh, he sees a strutter with hens. 2:22:05.120 --> 2:22:07.000 A lot of times they will come and check it out, 2:22:07.080 --> 2:22:10.520 but they're not gonna be aggressive. And I've I've killed 2:22:10.560 --> 2:22:12.600 some nice ones with my bow at real close range 2:22:12.879 --> 2:22:19.120 that that way. But I've learned the hard way that 2:22:19.280 --> 2:22:22.920 you don't have much time, you better shoot. You better shoot, 2:22:23.040 --> 2:22:26.720 like as he's approaching the decoy, because you're not gonna 2:22:26.760 --> 2:22:29.120 get get him. I've never had one just thrash the 2:22:29.160 --> 2:22:31.480 decoy like crazy, like they do and like midmorn. 2:22:31.560 --> 2:22:33.280 I can't get in your head that like I'm gonna 2:22:33.280 --> 2:22:37.920 have a big show and then sometime later shoot him. Yeah, yeah, yep, 2:22:38.160 --> 2:22:42.000 that's the thing I still do hunting turkeys is now 2:22:42.080 --> 2:22:44.360 and then maybe not. But I usually when I get 2:22:44.400 --> 2:22:45.200 a shot, I take it. 2:22:45.920 --> 2:22:46.120 Yeah. 2:22:46.760 --> 2:22:49.120 Yeah, you know, even though you will see where you know, 2:22:49.160 --> 2:22:50.880 they come in and interact with the decoy for a 2:22:50.920 --> 2:22:53.200 long time. Like if there's the one I want and 2:22:53.320 --> 2:22:56.200 I get a shot, I'm shooting. 2:22:56.360 --> 2:22:57.440 Yeah you know what I mean. 2:22:57.680 --> 2:23:00.800 Yeah, I just rather than expecting that it's gonna be 2:23:00.920 --> 2:23:05.800 this crazy you know, fight and breeding decoys and all 2:23:05.840 --> 2:23:06.480 that kind of stuff. 2:23:06.680 --> 2:23:08.520 Yeah, I mean, and some of that. It's just it's 2:23:08.600 --> 2:23:11.360 just so weird. Like I mean, and Brad and I 2:23:11.400 --> 2:23:15.560 have joked about like what what if humans did exactly 2:23:15.640 --> 2:23:18.080 the things that turkeys has done, because we've had we've 2:23:18.120 --> 2:23:20.960 had times when this this, this whole flock comes in 2:23:22.120 --> 2:23:25.440 and there will be I mean, they're like humping the 2:23:25.520 --> 2:23:28.720 decoys and they're fighting the decoys, and they're fighting each other, 2:23:28.800 --> 2:23:31.520 and they're humping each other and and it's like some 2:23:31.640 --> 2:23:35.080 of this stuff. And then we'll shoot one and sometimes 2:23:35.200 --> 2:23:38.760 we'll use like a Magnus bullhead or and it just 2:23:38.879 --> 2:23:44.440 shoots there to decapitates them instantly, and we feel like 2:23:44.920 --> 2:23:47.280 sometimes that's a good way to get a quick, clean kill. 2:23:47.680 --> 2:23:50.240 And then like this this turkey's laying there with no 2:23:50.400 --> 2:23:52.440 head and it's flopping around and other ones are coming 2:23:52.480 --> 2:23:54.640 in and jumping on top of it and trying to 2:23:54.720 --> 2:23:58.400 fight it, and and it's just like it's just so bizarre. 2:23:58.760 --> 2:24:01.520 I got some bars I could remember that that might 2:24:01.560 --> 2:24:03.200 have been a little bit of the groove, but that's 2:24:03.200 --> 2:24:06.160 about it. Man. Yeah, it is way way different than folks. 2:24:06.600 --> 2:24:07.280 And they can fly. 2:24:10.000 --> 2:24:11.960 I had a blacktail buck a few years ago that 2:24:13.320 --> 2:24:15.080 came in and gave me a really good shot, and 2:24:15.200 --> 2:24:18.080 I double belonged him and he went short distance and 2:24:18.200 --> 2:24:21.600 betted down, and five minutes later a nice big blacktail 2:24:21.640 --> 2:24:26.400 buck came in and and just went right over to that. 2:24:26.640 --> 2:24:29.000 He just went he just knew right where that buck was, 2:24:29.120 --> 2:24:31.440 just by scent really and kicked him up out of 2:24:31.520 --> 2:24:34.200 his bed and what Yeah, kicked him up out of 2:24:34.240 --> 2:24:36.120 his bed, and then he went and bedded down it 2:24:36.240 --> 2:24:37.960 down again, and he went and kicked him up out 2:24:37.959 --> 2:24:39.200 of his bed again, and I was like, I don't 2:24:39.200 --> 2:24:42.880 know what to do. And so yeah, there's there's a 2:24:42.959 --> 2:24:46.880 lot of strange things that happened in nature, and yeah, 2:24:46.920 --> 2:24:49.720 I agree like that show. You know, it's like some 2:24:49.920 --> 2:24:52.680 shows are better than others, Like a big grind of geese. 2:24:52.720 --> 2:24:55.640 That's a really pretty show and it's really really neat 2:24:55.959 --> 2:24:58.440 thing and it's worthwhile and if you don't shoot at all, 2:24:58.480 --> 2:25:01.400 like that's just super fun and it's a totally successful day. 2:25:02.160 --> 2:25:05.920 But you know, when turkeys come in, I agree, if 2:25:05.959 --> 2:25:08.400 you get a good, quick, clean kill, you know that's 2:25:08.520 --> 2:25:11.720 and you're there to kill one, and you know it's 2:25:11.720 --> 2:25:13.680 like you take take take the shot. You don't have 2:25:13.760 --> 2:25:17.320 to necessarily see him, like beating up a decoy for 2:25:17.360 --> 2:25:17.800 an hour. 2:25:18.080 --> 2:25:22.160 Yeah, you know our buddy Parker Hall. He thinks that 2:25:22.400 --> 2:25:24.200 if you kill a turkey over a decoy, you go 2:25:24.320 --> 2:25:26.840 to Hell, which makes me wonder, where's the guy that 2:25:26.920 --> 2:25:28.320 makes turkey decoys end up? 2:25:28.440 --> 2:25:31.320 Park Special Place? 2:25:31.520 --> 2:25:34.560 They got a real hot corner in the basement. 2:25:35.480 --> 2:25:38.240 Now it's I've had say that too. 2:25:38.360 --> 2:25:40.760 They that would be maybe that's Dave's book of hunting 2:25:40.800 --> 2:25:46.240 tidbits called Hell's Basement in the old days. In the 2:25:46.240 --> 2:25:48.560 old days, we would have named this episode Hell's Basement. 2:25:48.760 --> 2:25:52.400 Jay Scott's ripping what little Harry has left out here, 2:25:52.440 --> 2:25:55.160 and you say you just let him, you know, shoot 2:25:55.200 --> 2:25:57.600 him as you as soon as you can, because he 2:25:57.720 --> 2:25:59.680 likes to him he likes to sit there and watch 2:25:59.760 --> 2:26:00.640 the Yeah. 2:26:00.840 --> 2:26:02.120 Yeah, he likes to get him with me. 2:26:02.720 --> 2:26:03.840 He enjoys the show. 2:26:04.800 --> 2:26:07.880 I like to get him coming, all right, Dave Smith, 2:26:07.920 --> 2:26:10.240 thanks for coming on, man, thanks for having me. I 2:26:10.400 --> 2:26:13.120 know who told me you don't do you don't do podcasts, 2:26:13.280 --> 2:26:15.760 may be really eager to have you on. Yeah, you know, 2:26:15.959 --> 2:26:17.560 the guys that really want to do them to make 2:26:17.640 --> 2:26:18.080 me leary. 2:26:19.120 --> 2:26:21.520 Now, the people that I work with are probably surprise 2:26:21.600 --> 2:26:23.640 that I even you know, agreed to it, but I 2:26:23.879 --> 2:26:27.040 just you know, things have changed now and I just 2:26:27.160 --> 2:26:29.840 want to be as cooperative and helpful as possible. 2:26:30.000 --> 2:26:35.400 So well, listen, you did such a good job. I've 2:26:35.400 --> 2:26:38.320 already told Karin and put you back on the put 2:26:38.360 --> 2:26:39.480 you on the returning guest. 2:26:39.680 --> 2:26:41.840 Oh yeah, you got to join the all timers, man. 2:26:41.760 --> 2:26:45.920 You know, bring them, Bring Brad Brad Cochran and Mike Callian, 2:26:46.560 --> 2:26:50.640 Greg Hogan, Scott Sprucker, those guys. I'm not kidding they 2:26:51.120 --> 2:26:53.840 they have a lot of information. They're super fun, fun guys. 2:26:53.879 --> 2:26:55.920 And next time we next time you guys, I want 2:26:55.959 --> 2:26:58.240 you to bring your whole team. Okay, we're just gonna 2:26:58.240 --> 2:26:59.680 do where they got to think. We used to do 2:26:59.760 --> 2:27:02.440 these things called hot tip offs, where it was like 2:27:02.480 --> 2:27:05.360 a showdown of hot tips. We should revitalize hot tip off. 2:27:05.480 --> 2:27:08.400 Yeah, I was watching something the other day. I was 2:27:08.480 --> 2:27:12.440 watching yesterday vitalizing him right now on the website. 2:27:12.480 --> 2:27:14.840 That's great, So hot tip off, you have a competition 2:27:14.959 --> 2:27:17.760 who's got the hottest tip. You bring all your crew 2:27:17.840 --> 2:27:20.680 in and you guys could have an hour long hot 2:27:20.760 --> 2:27:23.680 tip off or just goes around the table and then 2:27:23.720 --> 2:27:27.400 we'll score it and we'll wind up with a winner out. 2:27:27.280 --> 2:27:30.520 Of the hole just goes round and round and round 2:27:30.560 --> 2:27:31.119 and round. 2:27:31.000 --> 2:27:33.599 And then we'll score the whole performance. 2:27:34.600 --> 2:27:35.800 How good are you in the kitchen? 2:27:35.840 --> 2:27:37.200 GSD? Hot tip off? 2:27:37.280 --> 2:27:37.560 What's that? 2:27:37.640 --> 2:27:38.800 How good are you in the kitchen? 2:27:39.040 --> 2:27:39.400 Terrible? 2:27:40.800 --> 2:27:41.480 You're married? Right? 2:27:42.240 --> 2:27:42.520 What's that? 2:27:42.680 --> 2:27:43.280 You're married or not? 2:27:43.600 --> 2:27:43.760 Yeah? 2:27:43.959 --> 2:27:45.400 Yeah? Yeah, Luckily you. 2:27:45.400 --> 2:27:46.680 Guys will still be fun to play. 2:27:47.680 --> 2:27:50.520 Been married a long time? Yeah, yeah, I think you'd 2:27:50.560 --> 2:27:51.520 be good at trivia man. 2:27:52.000 --> 2:27:54.039 Yeah, but if you're not, if you if you say 2:27:54.040 --> 2:27:56.440 you're terrible in the kitchen, boy, that really that's twenty 2:27:56.480 --> 2:27:57.560 five percent of the questions. 2:27:57.840 --> 2:28:00.320 Yeah, but I bet you he's got some hot tips 2:28:00.959 --> 2:28:06.840 about it being in the kitchen, like get a frozen peat. 2:28:07.440 --> 2:28:10.600 It'll be twenty twenty five years of spring. And my 2:28:10.720 --> 2:28:13.680 wife is of Mexican descent. She's a great cook. She 2:28:13.760 --> 2:28:16.760 doesn't think that she is, but uh she Everything she 2:28:16.879 --> 2:28:17.800 makes is amazing. 2:28:17.920 --> 2:28:21.280 So was your wife born in Mexico? 2:28:21.920 --> 2:28:24.920 No, No, she wasn't born. She's like think three generations 2:28:25.000 --> 2:28:31.200 as Yeah, but twenty five years. Got the whole She's 2:28:31.240 --> 2:28:33.120 got all the traditions down and everything, and that her 2:28:33.160 --> 2:28:37.280 grandma didn't speak any English at all, and and where 2:28:37.360 --> 2:28:40.240 her parents live in eastern Washington. It's just you know, 2:28:40.480 --> 2:28:42.800 we go over there and make to Molly's and and 2:28:43.080 --> 2:28:45.480 it's a lot of culture, Mexican culture. 2:28:45.560 --> 2:28:48.840 I once traded someone a bunch of a woman from 2:28:50.160 --> 2:28:55.039 damn it Comish. I can remember where she's from. She's 2:28:55.040 --> 2:29:00.400 from Central America. Either way. They make to Mollies slightly 2:29:00.480 --> 2:29:04.200 different than Mexican Tomali's, I know, because they would put 2:29:04.320 --> 2:29:05.720 like a dried fruit in them. 2:29:06.280 --> 2:29:06.600 Uh huh. 2:29:07.480 --> 2:29:12.520 Where was she from? Man? Maybe Columbia? Okay, So so 2:29:13.959 --> 2:29:17.400 I gave her a bunch of muskox meat, the deal 2:29:17.520 --> 2:29:21.800 being that she made Tomali's with that muskox meat, but 2:29:21.920 --> 2:29:24.920 I got half of the yield, which she thought was 2:29:24.920 --> 2:29:27.119 a screaming deal. I thought it was a screaming deal. 2:29:27.800 --> 2:29:30.720 So whatever, she made like twenty pounds worth of muskox 2:29:30.760 --> 2:29:33.640 meat Tomali's, which is a shitload of Tmali's, and then 2:29:33.760 --> 2:29:35.920 I got half of the take. 2:29:36.440 --> 2:29:36.720 Nice. 2:29:37.040 --> 2:29:39.000 No, it was a phenomenal deal. I had them all 2:29:39.080 --> 2:29:41.200 lined up like bars of gold in my freezer. Man, 2:29:41.400 --> 2:29:43.120 but we went through them pretty quick. But they had 2:29:43.200 --> 2:29:45.440 like dried fruit, which I thought was interesting. 2:29:46.400 --> 2:29:48.600 Yeah, I don't have to find out what that is. 2:29:48.680 --> 2:29:52.360 But yeah, they our family doesn't do it like that, 2:29:52.760 --> 2:29:55.160 just traditional with pork meat and all that. 2:29:55.520 --> 2:29:57.480 Give me your hottest piece of marriage advice. Give me 2:29:57.480 --> 2:29:58.920 a hot tip off on marriage advice. 2:30:01.160 --> 2:30:04.800 I mean, I just I don't know. I just feel 2:30:04.840 --> 2:30:06.720 like I just got so lucky and I'm just so 2:30:06.920 --> 2:30:09.200 blessed and everything like that. I don't, I don't know what. 2:30:09.440 --> 2:30:11.879 I just I think my wife is just the rock 2:30:11.959 --> 2:30:14.960 of our of our family, and she's just a total 2:30:15.040 --> 2:30:18.240 sweetheart and and you know, it's like she's the reason 2:30:18.320 --> 2:30:20.840 though I guess why I don't do very many trips, 2:30:20.920 --> 2:30:22.880 Like I feel like I found her sort of late 2:30:22.920 --> 2:30:25.280 in life, even though we've been married twenty five years 2:30:25.360 --> 2:30:27.680 or whatever. And so I love my home life so 2:30:27.879 --> 2:30:31.439 much so it's turned me into a homebody like steelhead 2:30:31.480 --> 2:30:35.040 steelhead fishing and bass fishing and you know some you 2:30:35.120 --> 2:30:37.640 know a lot of stuff that I do or stuff 2:30:37.680 --> 2:30:39.560 that's close close to home, because. 2:30:39.320 --> 2:30:42.200 I like you home, Yeah, eating them to Molly's and you. 2:30:42.320 --> 2:30:45.040 Never know how much time you'll how much time you'll have, 2:30:45.240 --> 2:30:45.400 you know. 2:30:45.680 --> 2:30:48.959 I got some marriage advice, find the right to buy. 2:30:49.040 --> 2:30:52.960 Tony had this little tidbit one time. He said he 2:30:53.000 --> 2:30:54.440 and I were both got in trouble with our wives 2:30:54.480 --> 2:30:56.840 one time, which we didn't even deserve because we had 2:30:56.879 --> 2:31:01.080 taken all of our kids claim digging. So you think, 2:31:01.160 --> 2:31:03.120 how could you be in any trouble, Like normally, if 2:31:03.120 --> 2:31:05.280 I take my kids to do something, my wife's very 2:31:05.640 --> 2:31:08.320 very happy with me. Right if they're all gone, there's 2:31:08.360 --> 2:31:10.720 nothing complain about. Anyways, on this trip, he Tony had 2:31:10.760 --> 2:31:12.960 his kid in one of those kid carriers on your 2:31:13.000 --> 2:31:17.600 back clam digging, but he didn't tire in there, and 2:31:17.680 --> 2:31:24.760 he's out in the water and leans over comes right 2:31:24.879 --> 2:31:26.920 out of that back back carrier because he was like 2:31:27.040 --> 2:31:30.400 leaning over fishing around in the water for something. He's 2:31:30.440 --> 2:31:32.160 on the way home, we got pulled over by post 2:31:32.600 --> 2:31:34.360 like next thing. You know, it's like one in the morning. 2:31:34.440 --> 2:31:37.000 It's just a whole late deal. Anyways, he said to me, Steve, 2:31:37.280 --> 2:31:40.080 and I got yelled at, but my wife on speakerphone. 2:31:40.080 --> 2:31:43.480 He got yelled at but his wife. He said to me, Steve, 2:31:43.840 --> 2:31:45.680 if we were the way they wanted us to be, 2:31:46.160 --> 2:31:50.720 they wouldn't like us. My wife she said, yeah, I would. 2:31:53.560 --> 2:31:54.760 Yeah, I think that's true. 2:31:55.600 --> 2:32:00.240 I don't think that's marriage advice. That's just funny, all right. 2:32:00.600 --> 2:32:02.800 Maybe like a meat eater's guy, do marriage advice. 2:32:04.480 --> 2:32:06.080 I come up with a couple of tips. 2:32:07.320 --> 2:32:09.840 I don't know about you, Chester. I heard of Chester 2:32:10.280 --> 2:32:13.280 get yelled at eastbound and westbound on the same highway. 2:32:13.360 --> 2:32:17.280 Man, But then he's just got to sing that beautiful 2:32:17.400 --> 2:32:22.720 song that he wrote, and then he'll make everyone weep. 2:32:23.480 --> 2:32:24.120 Just be forgiven. 2:32:24.280 --> 2:32:26.240 Yeah, I've been driving down roll of Chester. He's in 2:32:26.280 --> 2:32:29.120 all kinds of trouble because he's late from getting home 2:32:29.200 --> 2:32:31.280 from fishing. And I said, well, here you supposed to 2:32:31.280 --> 2:32:33.320 be doing when you get home? He said, going fishing. 2:32:36.560 --> 2:32:39.360 He was late for his second fishing trip because he'd 2:32:39.400 --> 2:32:41.760 been going too long on his first fishing trip of 2:32:41.800 --> 2:32:42.080 the day. 2:32:42.440 --> 2:32:45.840 That's yeah, it's always bad. You tell you, you tell 2:32:45.879 --> 2:32:47.800 your wife are going, you're going for a half a day, 2:32:47.800 --> 2:32:49.320 and you come home she's like, I thought you were 2:32:49.360 --> 2:32:50.879 going for half a day, and you're like, well, twelve 2:32:50.959 --> 2:32:51.959 hours is half a day. 2:32:53.800 --> 2:32:55.640 In Chester's defense, he was supposed to take his white 2:32:55.680 --> 2:32:57.240 fish and she was pissed that he was at home 2:32:57.280 --> 2:33:00.320 from his other fishing to do that fishing. All right, 2:33:00.360 --> 2:33:03.000 Thanks coming on, Dave, Did you like it? 2:33:03.160 --> 2:33:05.800 Thanks for having me? I appreciate it. I was like 2:33:05.840 --> 2:33:06.280 it or hate it. 2:33:06.760 --> 2:33:07.240 I liked it. 2:33:07.360 --> 2:33:09.520 I was kind of stressing it a little bit. I 2:33:09.560 --> 2:33:10.879 didn't sleep much last night. 2:33:11.240 --> 2:33:15.600 Don't go on all kinds of other podcasts, you know 2:33:15.640 --> 2:33:17.480 what I mean. Don't become one of them guys. 2:33:17.760 --> 2:33:21.360 Yeah, yeah, no, no, keep it tight, man, We'll keep it, yeah, 2:33:21.480 --> 2:33:22.920 for sure, keep it tight. 2:33:23.160 --> 2:33:29.160 And everyone can find uh Dave's decoys at Dave smith 2:33:30.200 --> 2:33:31.080 decoys dot com. 2:33:31.240 --> 2:33:31.640 We haven't. 2:33:31.920 --> 2:33:34.080 We'll merged that into the meat Eater site at some 2:33:34.200 --> 2:33:36.920 point soon. But right now, it's he. 2:33:37.200 --> 2:33:40.280 Prefers DSD because he's he's so modest. He doesn't like 2:33:40.360 --> 2:33:43.440 being such a showboat. That's why he always goes to DSD. 2:33:43.640 --> 2:33:46.680 I'm just I'm just giving the audience the u r L. 2:33:47.040 --> 2:33:48.720 Well see the decoys are. 2:33:49.280 --> 2:33:52.560 To prefer DSD. I get, yeah, because he doesn't want 2:33:52.600 --> 2:33:56.600 to detract from his co workers' efforts by Dave's Yeah. 2:33:56.720 --> 2:34:00.360 That's the thing is like we and that's that's one 2:34:00.400 --> 2:34:03.080 of the things that's we're having a hard time with 2:34:03.200 --> 2:34:05.800 that adjustment of and everyone's having a hard time with 2:34:05.920 --> 2:34:10.720 that adjustment. Is at d SC we've always operated as 2:34:10.760 --> 2:34:12.960 a group, you know, and made all our decisions as 2:34:13.000 --> 2:34:16.880 a group. And and a consensus and you know, discussing everything, 2:34:16.959 --> 2:34:20.280 and so there's definitely not one person that is sort 2:34:20.280 --> 2:34:26.440 of the you know, the north star of DSD a. 2:34:26.440 --> 2:34:27.000 Lot of muscle. 2:34:28.320 --> 2:34:29.720 You're so self deprecating. 2:34:30.640 --> 2:34:34.480 Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean, I've just been 2:34:34.600 --> 2:34:38.720 I've just been real like like like I I definitely 2:34:38.920 --> 2:34:42.560 you know, I didn't do anything. I mostly just work 2:34:42.640 --> 2:34:45.720 in my in my shop a distance away from the 2:34:46.120 --> 2:34:49.840 from the decoy shop and do clay sculptures and everything, 2:34:49.920 --> 2:34:52.440 and so you know, I just surrounded myself with people 2:34:52.800 --> 2:34:54.800 that are really good at at all those other all 2:34:54.840 --> 2:34:57.680 those other things, and I never wanted to be super 2:34:57.760 --> 2:34:59.880 involved with the you know, with all the headaches of 2:35:00.080 --> 2:35:01.600 the business side of it and stuff like that, and 2:35:01.680 --> 2:35:06.120 so you know, we're just definitely we're definitely a team 2:35:06.200 --> 2:35:10.320 and operate operate that way and stuff, and so you know, 2:35:10.640 --> 2:35:14.480 that's take some adjustment for everyone to realize that I'm 2:35:14.640 --> 2:35:17.360 I am not you know, I am not the the 2:35:18.400 --> 2:35:23.039 the decision maker representative and you know of D of DSD. 2:35:23.360 --> 2:35:28.960 Well Decoys doesn't lend someone to think that that, Like 2:35:29.240 --> 2:35:31.039 when you're talking to Dave Smith, you. 2:35:31.080 --> 2:35:34.400 Know, yeah, I get that, I get that and again 2:35:34.480 --> 2:35:35.760 I tried, you're. 2:35:35.640 --> 2:35:36.560 Willing to see that? 2:35:37.040 --> 2:35:41.840 Yeah, okay, well you guys do make some really really 2:35:42.520 --> 2:35:45.920 good realistic decoys. Like the other day when I saw 2:35:46.040 --> 2:35:48.560 more of that full spread, I was very impressed. 2:35:48.720 --> 2:35:50.200 Oh thanks, Jess, I say that. 2:35:51.400 --> 2:35:53.200 You know, we didn't even get into we got to 2:35:53.200 --> 2:35:54.800 wrap up, we didn't get into fur trapping. 2:35:55.320 --> 2:35:57.760 Oh yeah, you just have to come back. 2:35:58.560 --> 2:36:02.560 Maybe make a Martin decoy who for trapping. 2:36:02.440 --> 2:36:05.600 Is one of the things that helps me set up 2:36:05.760 --> 2:36:09.360 ground blinds and tree stands. Like I think if like 2:36:09.760 --> 2:36:12.840 if you, if you don't have that, I think you're you're, 2:36:13.720 --> 2:36:16.520 you know, sadly missing out a tiny little bit unsetting. 2:36:16.680 --> 2:36:19.400 Oh, it's very educational. We'll save that for the next 2:36:19.440 --> 2:36:19.840 time you're on. 2:36:19.920 --> 2:36:20.800 Sounds good, you'll come on. 2:36:20.920 --> 2:36:22.720 We'll do a hot tip off with you and your guys. 2:36:22.800 --> 2:36:24.360 Then you'll come on, we'll talk for trapping. 2:36:24.560 --> 2:36:27.360 Sounds great, and then you win trivia. 2:36:28.920 --> 2:36:33.000 I think I'm gonna still beat them, maybe beat them 2:36:33.040 --> 2:36:37.400 horribly bad. All right, man, don't go doing a bunch 2:36:37.440 --> 2:36:38.160 of podcasts. 2:36:38.280 --> 2:36:42.200 Now, don't worry. 2:36:55.400 --> 2:37:01.040 Seal Gray Shine like Suit in the sun. 2:37:04.920 --> 2:37:12.440 Ride, Ride, Ride on along, sweetheart. 2:37:13.320 --> 2:37:13.960 We're done. 2:37:14.280 --> 2:37:18.800 Beat this damp horse to death, taking a new one 2:37:19.520 --> 2:37:20.600 and ride away. 2:37:23.520 --> 2:37:29.160 We're done beat this damn horse today, so take a 2:37:29.320 --> 2:37:31.360 new one and ride on.