WEBVTT - Anti-Zionist Activism with Sim Kern 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:08.000 Cool Zone Media. 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:11.800 Hello everybody, and welcome to it could happen here. This 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:15.480 is Scharene and I am so excited to be joined 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:19.840 by author and journalist Sim Kern. Their latest novel, The 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.400 Free People's Village, is available now, so go to your 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.400 local bookstore and order it and support a voice that 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:29.040 I believe we all need in our zeitgeist right now. 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:32.000 So welcome Sim. Thank you so much for being. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:33.159 Here, Thanks for having me. 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.680 For those of you who don't know, Sim has been 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:38.720 making videos recently about the genocide and Gaza from a 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.199 queer Jewish anti Zionist perspective, and this is one that 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:44.440 I think a lot of people need to be exposed 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.800 to and to listen to. I mentioned this to you 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:48.879 before the recording, but a Jewish friend of mine told 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.920 me how much she connected with your voice and how 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.000 much she's learned from you, and how your videos have 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:58.560 been helping her approach really awkward and difficult conversations with 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.840 her peers. So I appreciate very much, Happy to do 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.560 whatever I can when you decided to start making like 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:06.200 the first video that got a lot of attention, Like, 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.200 were you seeing something that you wanted to like? Make 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.120 sure you correct in the zeitgeist, like what was your 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:11.440 perspective as a Jewish person. 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:14.600 Well, this is the first video that I made, was 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:19.280 encouraging people to read books by Palestinian authors, just to 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:24.400 learn about the Palestinian perspective which is so often censored 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:28.479 and not really allowed in our media, and also which 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.560 you really have to go seek out in publishing. And 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.319 this isn't the first time I've done this, since I 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:38.360 think twenty seventeen or something was the first time I 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:44.160 created Read for Palestine challenge on YouTube. And just creating 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.399 this Read for Palestine Challenge was enough to get me 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:51.000 put on the Canary Mission website and like outed as 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:55.680 a anti semi by this very Zionist website that of 0:01:55.720 --> 0:02:00.280 course is a blocklist of mostly students who organize with 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.640 like Students for Justice in Palestine and really anyone who 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:10.120 speaks out publicly against Israeli apartheid. So simply like encouraging 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:12.399 people to read these books, I think is really powerful 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.799 and I know for me, growing up Jewish in the 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.160 United States, I was just inundated with a lot of 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:24.720 Zionist propaganda from my more conservative family. My more liberal 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.360 family would take the line of like it's just very complicated. 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.359 Both sides hate each other. Who can say who's right? 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.040 And it was only by reading Palestinian voices that I 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.920 really developed an anti Zionist perspective. 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.320 That's awesome that you did the read for Palestine challenge, 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.919 but also like not surprising about the Canary mission thing, unfortunately, 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.519 but I'm glad that that didn't stop you or discourage 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.720 you when you start to learn more about Palestine. How 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.520 did you approach conversations with your friends and family? 0:02:55.320 --> 0:03:00.320 Again, Like I guess initially it's different talking to and 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.520 family than it is talking to the internet. Honestly, it's 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.840 much easier, I think sometimes to connect with the internet 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.440 because it is not that like personal connection. I think 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.560 I've made more headway and had a much greater impact 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.799 online than I have with certain friends and family members. 0:03:17.680 --> 0:03:20.120 But you know, I do think that everyone having those 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:24.079 conversations putting your beliefs out there, whether it's one on 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.240 one in face to face conversations or whether it is 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.920 doing it online, where like certainly your friends and family 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.400 are going to see the things that you're posting and 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:34.960 the things that you care about. 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:37.120 It has a great impact. 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:40.800 And like I've definitely noticed friends of mine over time 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:46.160 who maybe a few intense bombing campaigns ago, were very 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:50.920 checked out on this issue are now very active and 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:54.160 are and are speaking out themselves. And so that's I 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.760 guess that would be my message to other like anti 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.280 Zionist Jews is even if the first time you're putting 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.600 stuff out there about Palestine it feels like no one's listening. 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.800 It feels like, you know, you're not making a difference 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:10.760 over time, you're planting the seeds of like questioning the 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:15.720 Western media's you know, pro Israeli perspective over time. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.000 Yeah, it's a really really good point. But my friend 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.400 also mentioned she would never have been exposed to your 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.800 voice if I didn't share it or if people were 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.120 not sharing it. So I think people really underestimate the 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:31.560 value of social media sometimes or speaking up on social media. 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.600 They're just like, oh, people are already talking about it 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.320 or whatever. But everyone has a community they can reach 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.600 that no one else can reach. So I think that's 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.599 important to remember. You made some points in some videos 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:44.880 that you made that I would love for you to 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:47.599 not like regurgitate, but maybe just like cover for people 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:50.440 that haven't watched your videos or are just unaware in general. 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.200 I think a really important point you made was how 0:04:55.680 --> 0:05:00.320 suffering is not monopolized or exclusive or any word or 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.560 better than other people suffering if regardless of what identity 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.480 they are. Can you get into that a little bit. 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.360 Yeah, So I made a video that was actually responding 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:11.920 to a comment by someone saying like, how dare you 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:16.400 compare the suffering of Palestinians to the suffering of Jews? 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.200 How dare you compare genocides? That that's disgusting and that 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:25.000 cheapens the Holocaust? And that was again I think responding 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.200 to a video or I was saying, like, read about 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:31.320 other genocides besides the Holocaust, because I think it again, 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.919 as a Jewish American, I grew up steeped in Holocaust literature. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:37.440 I read every book I could about it. You know, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.120 I think a lot of Jewish kids, by the time 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:43.080 were adolescents. We have like this PhD level knowledge of 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.560 the Holocaust. I think that our peers who are non 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:50.320 Jewish maybe don't have quite as much exposure and understanding 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.680 of the Holocaust. But that is often the only genocide 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:57.120 that is taught in US schools, And so there's a 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.920 narrative that the suffering of the US in the persecution 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.680 of Jews is uniquely specific, and that it was all 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.600 about the religion. It's something about Judaism itself is why. 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:09.480 We've been persecuted. 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.440 Well, I as an author, I'm currently I'm writing a 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.320 book on Jews in the seventeenth century, and I've just 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.960 done a ton of research on medieval and early modern 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:22.159 Jewish history. And of course there was religious hate, but 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:25.799 it was motivated by and I contended in this video 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:29.960 that all genocides are motivated by land and wealth and power, 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:35.400 and the hate is manufactured by people in power to 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:40.360 justify taking people's land and wealth and to solidify their 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.000 own power as rulers. 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.240 And the Christian Church use this. 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:47.880 Against Jews in the medieval and early modern period and 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:52.960 in our times. It's there's no one religion that has 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.880 a monopoly on'm committing genocide, you know, there's no one. 0:06:56.760 --> 0:06:59.640 State and because really it's states. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:03.040 That are that are committing genocide that you know, it 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:05.400 is not directed to one people. So I've encouraged people 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.680 to read books about here in the United States, obviously 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:14.080 the genocide of the Native peoples, the Congolese genocide. You know, 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.480 I just recommended a couple of different titles, the Rwandan 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:22.480 genocide for a more recent example, and it is I 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.560 reject the framework that you can't make comparisons between genocides. 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:27.760 I think that keeps us ignorant. I think that keeps 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:32.080 us from being in solidarity with one another and understanding 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:38.000 the mechanisms of power and control and wealth accumulation that 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.760 underlie all of these genocides. And I do believe what 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.200 is happening in Palestine right now is a genocide being 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.320 committed by the Israeli state. 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:51.440 Yeah, and also really good point about justifying it by 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.200 creating all of people in Palestine as barbarians or terrorists 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.480 or this just this rhetoric that becomes really dangerous and harmful. 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.240 As we've seen, people can die. A sixty year old 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:04.680 can die from this rhetoric. 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.160 Right man, Yahoo just said this is a struggle between 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:10.400 children of light and children of darkness. 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.720 Like that cannot rhetoric. 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.640 I cannot believe that tweet. And I mean he deleted it, 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.160 but I mean the Internet is forever. I just can't 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:23.239 believe that was that is so normal for him to tweet, 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:27.040 just confidently at one point, just to say that out Loud. 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.360 I think that's absurd, and also just like to see 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:33.040 how Yoev Galant has been saying like human animals or 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:38.560 referring to Palestinians in such a dehumanizing way. You mentioned 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:42.199 something really important that I think I appreciated about how 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:47.040 maintaining the dehumanization of the Palestinians is vital to maintain 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:51.920 the white supremacist, imperialistic thing that is Israel. Can you 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:52.920 get into that a little bit? 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.679 Yeah, well, I think that was me trying. That came 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:58.920 out of me trying to understand why there was such 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.480 backlash when I, when I first years ago started recommending 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:05.880 people read Palestinian books. Is because when you read a 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.959 book by a Palestinian author, it is going to humanize 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:13.840 the Palestinian people for you, and that is incredibly threatening. 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.920 And Palestinian authors face a ton of discrimination within publishing. 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:19.840 I mean, look at. 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:25.199 What was it Earlier this week the Frankfurt Book Festival 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:32.000 polled or canceled a ceremony for a Palestinian author, Adania Shibley, 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.560 and then has made more time for Israeli voices and 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:42.880 Israeli specific panels at that book festival, and simply because 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:47.160 she's a Palestinian. She writes books dealing with real, factual 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:52.480 Palestinian history, and her books are critical of Israel. But 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:57.600 the silencing of Palestinian voices is a global project. It 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.880 is across all media industries. You see it in you know, 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:06.720 traditional book publishing as well as journalism. Another an author 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.600 friend of mine, hannein Ricott, has had the hardest time 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.240 she's been on sub with her book, and she's been 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.160 told by multiple editors to change the main character from 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:21.680 a Palestinian character to just a generic Arabic character because 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:27.360 being Palestinian is seen as inherently too controversial to publish. 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:31.560 Yeah, I read that. That's just I mean, again, not 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.680 completely surprised, but just so shameful that that is something 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:39.839 that is still happening in these modern times. I think 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.679 another thing to remember is a lot of people get 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.520 confused between the differences between being non white and white 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:48.640 in the scope of like this world. I guess it 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.120 just seems so obvious that colorism and racism both exist 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:54.920 in today's world. And I really liked what you mentioned 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.079 about the difference between colorism and racism. Can you talk 0:10:58.120 --> 0:10:59.240 about that for a little bit. 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.760 Yeah, Yeah, So I was explaining that in the Western media, 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:06.720 Israelis are treated as white and Palestinians are treated as 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.360 non white, and it really is regardless of the color 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.400 of your skin. So a lot of people giving me 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.560 pushback on that common say, oh, but there's black and 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:19.040 brown and white israelis yes, And in the racist apartheid 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:23.240 state that is Israel, people of different skin tones are 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:27.320 treated very differently. Within Israel, there was force sterilization of 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:31.480 African Jews immigrating to Israel. Well, when it comes to 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.680 the Western media, our view of the conflict is not 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:40.040 as nuanced as recognizing those differences. And so I was 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.680 explaining that colorism is discrimination based on the color of 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:48.360 your skin. Racism is a racial construct us about social, economic, 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:52.760 and legal discrimination. And while colorism is often used to 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:57.640 determine racism, that's not always one hundred percent the case. 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.960 And in the case of Israel, when you're talking abo 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.160 the Western media looking at Israel, they report on Israelis 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:07.679 as people, as people who are to be mourned, as 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:13.040 people are whose deaths are important, as people whose lives 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:18.040 are valuable, And they report on people in Gaza Palestinians, 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:23.120 as you know, human shields is the most sympathetic way 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:23.640 we hear. 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:24.280 Them talked about. 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.360 Their deaths are not deemed important. They are not humanized 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.200 within the media. If they're killed, they're either combatants or 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:34.400 they were a human shield, they were someone being used 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.360 by combatants, and their deaths are you know, maybe the 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.040 lip services paid to those debts being regrettable, but they're 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:47.320 seen as necessary and not not unconscionable in the way 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.160 that deaths in Israel are reported on. 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.800 Yeah, I think you bring a really good point about 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:57.680 the media and how important semantics are. I think something 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.840 that we've been seeing time and time again is how 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.840 deep the dehumanization goes. Like Israelis have been killed versus 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.240 Palestinians have died. The Gaza strip is being referred to. 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.840 I've seen it as an enclave. Oh my god, you know, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.319 an enclave where terrorists lurk. 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:18.480 So yeah, the words used to describe the city of Gaza, 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:23.880 the words used to describe people as combatants, the words like, 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:28.920 you know, Palestinians die in a clash when that clash 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:34.240 was racist Jewish settlers with machine guns coming after them, 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:39.440 you know. So yeah, yeah, Patay does a lot of work. 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.000 It does, it does. I mean We've seen it just 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.640 recently with the hospital bombing. How the New York Times 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:50.160 changed their headline like three times from strike and then 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:54.080 to blast. I believe was what they landed on blast, 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.839 which I just find honestly comical when I really think 0:13:57.840 --> 0:13:58.560 about it too hard. 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:03.080 Yeah, Elizabeth War came out and condemned clasts. 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.760 Like that is just so just the passive voice is 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:10.560 so dangerous because it it really off usecates the truth, 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.959 which is that Palestine people are dying of genocide. Even 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.360 calling it a war or a conflict does not do 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:22.400 what's happening justice because it still implies there are two 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.800 equal sides that are fighting against each other versus an 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:29.640 occupier and oppressor versus the occupied the oppressed. So I 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:31.920 think semantics are so important for us to keep in 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.720 mind even when we're talking about it with our peers, 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.680 to make sure that we talk about in the correct way, 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:41.840 because I feel like it unconsciously becomes ingrained in us, 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.200 even if we don't realize it when we keep talking 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:48.000 about certain things the way the media wants us to 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.720 talk about them as a conflict or as a clash 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:51.600 or whatever it is. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.120 And something else that I've really tuned into is really 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.600 being careful not to pit this as a struggle between 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:04.120 muscles and Jews. Any framing like that is both Islamophobic 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:08.600 and anti Semitic and incredibly inaccurate. This is about an 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.040 ethno state, a nation state and apartheid state, which is 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:18.880 Israel targeting it is captive population, and it is and 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.480 there are Palestinians who are of all different faiths who 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:29.160 are discriminated against because they are Palestinians within occupied Palestine. 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.160 So like, for example, it just came to my attention 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.080 that there are some in the I'm a book talker, 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:40.760 my book talk channels in books to gram is mostly 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.240 what I do is just, you know, share about books 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.000 for folks to read, and share. 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:46.040 About the books I'm working on. 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.840 And some of my fellow book talkers have been recommending 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:57.000 people read books by both Palestinian and Jewish authors so 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.800 they can show both sides. A Palestinian author, Hannahmushabak, just 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:02.680 wrote a great letter to sort of call in our 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:06.400 community and explain this is a this is very anti 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:11.040 semitic to conflate Judaism with Israel. 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:12.320 The policies of Israel. 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:16.280 You know, yesterday we saw five hundred Jewish activists get 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:20.200 arrested in the Capitol building here in DC in protests 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.160 and demanding an immediate ceasefire in Gaza. So there are many, 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.960 many anti Zionist Jews. Judaism and Zionism are not the 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:32.360 same thing, but conflating them gives Israel more power and 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:37.000 gives it a stronger moral foothold to say, oh, we're 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:42.320 representing all Jews, not just this state. So that's something 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:46.120 also to be really careful about, is to not pit 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:50.880 this as a Muslim versus Jewish fight, because it's not. 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:55.880 It's about Israel, the state versus Palestinian people. 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.280 Yeah, that's vital to remember. Let's take our first break 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:13.960 right here, and we will beat right back and we 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.280 are back. You were just talking about how this is 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:19.920 just one percent not a religious issue, and I think 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:24.080 talking about semantics again. I framing it as a religious 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.080 issue is another way for people to stop talking about it, 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:31.680 to be too afraid to get into this complicated, ancient 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.520 battle of all times, archaic thing that we can't even 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.639 get into because we can't understand it. I think the 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.919 Zionist narrative wants us to believe it's about religion. So 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.840 people can ignore what's actually going on and be too 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:47.800 scared to speak out. It's like time and time again. 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.000 Something that I want to remind people is that it's 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.040 not Muslim versus Jewish, which is what it gets framed 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.560 by most of the time. But speaking of Zionism and 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.160 how it's not equated to the Jewish religion at all. 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.200 If anything, Zionism is anti Semitic in and of itself. 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:04.800 I believe that wholeheartedly. 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.040 I believe Zionism makes all do so much more unsafe. 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.800 Yeah, it's it's also rooted in a lot of anti Semitism. 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.360 Even the way it was even the way the state 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.600 of Israel was created was Europeans being like, hey, Jews, 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.200 can you go here? It wasn't this gift to the 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.840 Jewish people. It was also about to be in Africa, 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.440 which I find fascinating. And also I think people always 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.000 forget the majority of Zionists in the United States are 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:33.120 Evangelical Christians. That is one percent accurate. That's why they 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.840 support Zionism, and it's because they want all the Jews 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.600 to go to Israel for the rapture to happen. It 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.080 is the most like comic book idea I've ever heard, 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.760 and everyone just goes along with it. Yeah, that brings 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:48.840 me to another thing he brought up in your videos 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:53.560 about needing a homeland. I think what you discussed is 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.800 really important because because of this narrative that a lot 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.600 of Zionists teach to Jewish people about how they're constantly 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:03.440 being perted, I think people are led to believe that 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:07.000 Israel is their safe haven, Like if all us fails, 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.200 I have Israel to go back to that as my home, 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.760 even like American Jews that have no connection to Israel. Really, why, 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.919 in your opinion, do the Jewish people not necessarily need 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.400 a homeland? Right? 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:23.600 Well, I made that video speaking to like other leftists. 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:25.800 I was addressing other leftists. So I think if you 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:29.480 agree with me on the premise that everyone should have 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:34.119 a safe place to live and everyone should have equal rights, 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.680 which I think are two pretty pretty basic tenets of 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:43.960 being a leftist, then you just can't have anybody having 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.480 a theocratic ethno state, which is what Israel is de 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:49.679 fact I mean they say they're not, but that is 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:51.000 how they act. 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:52.560 And how that is how that country is run. 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.680 And so you know a lot of people misinterpreted that videos, 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.640 as you know, try kind of try to argue with me, saying, 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:04.760 but there's other theocratic ethno states. But I'm saying, yeah, 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.359 if you're a leftist, you should think that's bad everywhere, 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.480 because a theocratic ethno state is an inherently fascist construct. 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.800 It's inherently saying one religion and or one ethnicity, in 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:20.919 the case of the way Israel interprets Judaism, these people 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.600 are more valuable and are more citizens here and have 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:29.479 more rights here than everybody else. And that is just 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:33.920 incompatible with leftist values, I think. And so the point 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:37.480 of that video is nobody should have a theocratic ethno state. 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:39.960 And this is a line that I've heard even some 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.159 leftist Jews saying, well, oh, we you know, this is 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:46.879 a complicated issue because Jews need a homeland. Well, I'm sorry, 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:51.359 our world is just two heterogenous, too diverse. You know, 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:54.440 migrations have been going on for tens of thousands of 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:56.720 years all over the place. There's no one plot of 0:20:56.800 --> 0:21:00.160 land on Earth anymore that you can carve out and say, Okay, 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.400 just this one type of people are going to get 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:05.399 to live. 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.240 Here and be citizens here and have rights here. 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:12.000 Now I'm an anarchist personally, so I when I say 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:15.000 no theocratic ethno states, I'm also like in a bigger 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.960 picture way saying like no states would be the ideal 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:25.560 for me. But certainly theocratic ethno states are even worse 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:31.080 within that framework compared to like liberal democracies or something. 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:36.560 So yeah, that was a video that was like intended 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:41.119 to be an in group conversation, and then it got 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.720 a million views and got because my following has like 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:47.840 really exploded over the last week. So I wasn't expecting 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.200 it to go so far. And so for people who 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:57.320 idealize ethno states, like Japan or Sweden, they were really 0:21:57.400 --> 0:21:59.520 having a hard time with me with me saying that, 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:02.280 and think it was really anti semitic for me to say, Oh, 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:05.080 I don't think Jews should have theocratic ethno state, but no, 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.760 I think nobody should have a theocratic ethno state. 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:11.719 That's a really good point to make. It's I mean, 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.399 it goes back to the idea of Jewish suffering being 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:18.440 more valuable in some way than other suffering. I think 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.600 it continues this hierarchy of sorts and everything you described 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.560 about people not being treated the same and not having 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:28.479 enough rights. That's all apartheid. I think people forget like 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:32.280 Israel is committing the definition of apartheid and has been 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:36.200 against the Palestinian people, and I find it weird that. 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:41.000 I mean, Amy Schumer posted this crazy video proving in 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:43.960 her words that it's not an apartheid state actually and 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:46.320 how people have all the rights in the world when 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.639 in reality it's shameful. 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:53.600 Yeah, it's like the UN, Amnesty, International, Human Rights Watch 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:57.480 are all saying this is an apartheid state. But okay, 0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:02.679 Amy Schumer, Yeah, it's it's not actually that complicated. 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:05.280 It's really not. I've been really appreciating Amanda Seals. She 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:08.760 did like a reaction video to what Amy Schumer posted 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:13.600 and laid out all the racist reasons why actually apartheid 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:27.280 is what you would call that. I think something that 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:33.119 has bothered me within the both sides thing is this 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:35.240 is not a term that I hear often anymore. But 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:40.400 like the progressive except Palestine, I think that idea has 0:23:40.440 --> 0:23:43.040 been really damaging because it makes it seem like you 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:47.240 can still be so liberal and progressive and still not 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:52.760 really recognize that Palestinians are being genocided for almost a century. 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:56.800 Yeah, and this is just so frustrating because again, what 0:23:56.840 --> 0:24:00.000 you're seeing in Palestine, it's so stark, the violence is 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:05.160 so obvious, and it's so egregious. And there's all these 0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:09.280 social justice you know, organizations and accounts that I followed. 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:12.360 There's like queer Jewish. 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:17.560 Liberation accounts who have said nothing about Palestine. There's also 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:19.800