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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, and welcome to it could happen here. This

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Speaker 2: is Scharene and I am so excited to be joined

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Speaker 2: by author and journalist Sim Kern. Their latest novel, The

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Speaker 2: Free People's Village, is available now, so go to your

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Speaker 2: local bookstore and order it and support a voice that

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Speaker 2: I believe we all need in our zeitgeist right now.

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Speaker 2: So welcome Sim. Thank you so much for being.

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Speaker 3: Here, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: For those of you who don't know, Sim has been

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Speaker 2: making videos recently about the genocide and Gaza from a

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Speaker 2: queer Jewish anti Zionist perspective, and this is one that

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people need to be exposed

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Speaker 2: to and to listen to. I mentioned this to you

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Speaker 2: before the recording, but a Jewish friend of mine told

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Speaker 2: me how much she connected with your voice and how

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Speaker 2: much she's learned from you, and how your videos have

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Speaker 2: been helping her approach really awkward and difficult conversations with

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Speaker 2: her peers. So I appreciate very much, Happy to do

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Speaker 2: whatever I can when you decided to start making like

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Speaker 2: the first video that got a lot of attention, Like,

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Speaker 2: were you seeing something that you wanted to like? Make

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Speaker 2: sure you correct in the zeitgeist, like what was your

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Speaker 2: perspective as a Jewish person.

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Speaker 4: Well, this is the first video that I made, was

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Speaker 4: encouraging people to read books by Palestinian authors, just to

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Speaker 4: learn about the Palestinian perspective which is so often censored

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Speaker 4: and not really allowed in our media, and also which

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Speaker 4: you really have to go seek out in publishing. And

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Speaker 4: this isn't the first time I've done this, since I

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Speaker 4: think twenty seventeen or something was the first time I

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Speaker 4: created Read for Palestine challenge on YouTube. And just creating

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Speaker 4: this Read for Palestine Challenge was enough to get me

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Speaker 4: put on the Canary Mission website and like outed as

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Speaker 4: a anti semi by this very Zionist website that of

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Speaker 4: course is a blocklist of mostly students who organize with

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Speaker 4: like Students for Justice in Palestine and really anyone who

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Speaker 4: speaks out publicly against Israeli apartheid. So simply like encouraging

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Speaker 4: people to read these books, I think is really powerful

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Speaker 4: and I know for me, growing up Jewish in the

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Speaker 4: United States, I was just inundated with a lot of

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Speaker 4: Zionist propaganda from my more conservative family. My more liberal

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Speaker 4: family would take the line of like it's just very complicated.

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Speaker 4: Both sides hate each other. Who can say who's right?

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Speaker 4: And it was only by reading Palestinian voices that I

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Speaker 4: really developed an anti Zionist perspective.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome that you did the read for Palestine challenge,

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Speaker 2: but also like not surprising about the Canary mission thing, unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: but I'm glad that that didn't stop you or discourage

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Speaker 2: you when you start to learn more about Palestine. How

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Speaker 2: did you approach conversations with your friends and family?

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Speaker 4: Again, Like I guess initially it's different talking to and

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Speaker 4: family than it is talking to the internet. Honestly, it's

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Speaker 4: much easier, I think sometimes to connect with the internet

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Speaker 4: because it is not that like personal connection. I think

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Speaker 4: I've made more headway and had a much greater impact

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Speaker 4: online than I have with certain friends and family members.

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Speaker 4: But you know, I do think that everyone having those

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Speaker 4: conversations putting your beliefs out there, whether it's one on

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Speaker 4: one in face to face conversations or whether it is

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Speaker 4: doing it online, where like certainly your friends and family

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Speaker 4: are going to see the things that you're posting and

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Speaker 4: the things that you care about.

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Speaker 3: It has a great impact.

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Speaker 4: And like I've definitely noticed friends of mine over time

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Speaker 4: who maybe a few intense bombing campaigns ago, were very

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Speaker 4: checked out on this issue are now very active and

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Speaker 4: are and are speaking out themselves. And so that's I

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Speaker 4: guess that would be my message to other like anti

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Speaker 4: Zionist Jews is even if the first time you're putting

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Speaker 4: stuff out there about Palestine it feels like no one's listening.

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Speaker 4: It feels like, you know, you're not making a difference

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Speaker 4: over time, you're planting the seeds of like questioning the

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Speaker 4: Western media's you know, pro Israeli perspective over time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really really good point. But my friend

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Speaker 2: also mentioned she would never have been exposed to your

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Speaker 2: voice if I didn't share it or if people were

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Speaker 2: not sharing it. So I think people really underestimate the

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Speaker 2: value of social media sometimes or speaking up on social media.

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Speaker 2: They're just like, oh, people are already talking about it

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Speaker 2: or whatever. But everyone has a community they can reach

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Speaker 2: that no one else can reach. So I think that's

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Speaker 2: important to remember. You made some points in some videos

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Speaker 2: that you made that I would love for you to

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Speaker 2: not like regurgitate, but maybe just like cover for people

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Speaker 2: that haven't watched your videos or are just unaware in general.

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Speaker 2: I think a really important point you made was how

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Speaker 2: suffering is not monopolized or exclusive or any word or

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Speaker 2: better than other people suffering if regardless of what identity

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Speaker 2: they are. Can you get into that a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So I made a video that was actually responding

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Speaker 4: to a comment by someone saying like, how dare you

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Speaker 4: compare the suffering of Palestinians to the suffering of Jews?

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Speaker 4: How dare you compare genocides? That that's disgusting and that

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Speaker 4: cheapens the Holocaust? And that was again I think responding

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Speaker 4: to a video or I was saying, like, read about

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Speaker 4: other genocides besides the Holocaust, because I think it again,

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Speaker 4: as a Jewish American, I grew up steeped in Holocaust literature.

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Speaker 4: I read every book I could about it. You know,

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Speaker 4: I think a lot of Jewish kids, by the time

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Speaker 4: were adolescents. We have like this PhD level knowledge of

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Speaker 4: the Holocaust. I think that our peers who are non

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Speaker 4: Jewish maybe don't have quite as much exposure and understanding

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Speaker 4: of the Holocaust. But that is often the only genocide

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Speaker 4: that is taught in US schools, And so there's a

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Speaker 4: narrative that the suffering of the US in the persecution

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Speaker 4: of Jews is uniquely specific, and that it was all

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Speaker 4: about the religion. It's something about Judaism itself is why.

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Speaker 3: We've been persecuted.

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Speaker 4: Well, I as an author, I'm currently I'm writing a

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Speaker 4: book on Jews in the seventeenth century, and I've just

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Speaker 4: done a ton of research on medieval and early modern

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Speaker 4: Jewish history. And of course there was religious hate, but

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Speaker 4: it was motivated by and I contended in this video

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Speaker 4: that all genocides are motivated by land and wealth and power,

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Speaker 4: and the hate is manufactured by people in power to

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Speaker 4: justify taking people's land and wealth and to solidify their

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Speaker 4: own power as rulers.

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Speaker 3: And the Christian Church use this.

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Speaker 4: Against Jews in the medieval and early modern period and

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Speaker 4: in our times. It's there's no one religion that has

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Speaker 4: a monopoly on'm committing genocide, you know, there's no one.

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Speaker 3: State and because really it's states.

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Speaker 4: That are that are committing genocide that you know, it

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Speaker 4: is not directed to one people. So I've encouraged people

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Speaker 4: to read books about here in the United States, obviously

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Speaker 4: the genocide of the Native peoples, the Congolese genocide. You know,

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Speaker 4: I just recommended a couple of different titles, the Rwandan

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Speaker 4: genocide for a more recent example, and it is I

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Speaker 4: reject the framework that you can't make comparisons between genocides.

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Speaker 4: I think that keeps us ignorant. I think that keeps

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Speaker 4: us from being in solidarity with one another and understanding

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Speaker 4: the mechanisms of power and control and wealth accumulation that

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Speaker 4: underlie all of these genocides. And I do believe what

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Speaker 4: is happening in Palestine right now is a genocide being

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Speaker 4: committed by the Israeli state.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and also really good point about justifying it by

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Speaker 2: creating all of people in Palestine as barbarians or terrorists

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Speaker 2: or this just this rhetoric that becomes really dangerous and harmful.

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Speaker 2: As we've seen, people can die. A sixty year old

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Speaker 2: can die from this rhetoric.

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Speaker 4: Right man, Yahoo just said this is a struggle between

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Speaker 4: children of light and children of darkness.

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Speaker 3: Like that cannot rhetoric.

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Speaker 2: I cannot believe that tweet. And I mean he deleted it,

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Speaker 2: but I mean the Internet is forever. I just can't

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Speaker 2: believe that was that is so normal for him to tweet,

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Speaker 2: just confidently at one point, just to say that out Loud.

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Speaker 2: I think that's absurd, and also just like to see

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Speaker 2: how Yoev Galant has been saying like human animals or

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Speaker 2: referring to Palestinians in such a dehumanizing way. You mentioned

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Speaker 2: something really important that I think I appreciated about how

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Speaker 2: maintaining the dehumanization of the Palestinians is vital to maintain

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Speaker 2: the white supremacist, imperialistic thing that is Israel. Can you

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Speaker 2: get into that a little bit?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think that was me trying. That came

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Speaker 4: out of me trying to understand why there was such

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Speaker 4: backlash when I, when I first years ago started recommending

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Speaker 4: people read Palestinian books. Is because when you read a

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Speaker 4: book by a Palestinian author, it is going to humanize

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Speaker 4: the Palestinian people for you, and that is incredibly threatening.

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Speaker 4: And Palestinian authors face a ton of discrimination within publishing.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look at.

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Speaker 4: What was it Earlier this week the Frankfurt Book Festival

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Speaker 4: polled or canceled a ceremony for a Palestinian author, Adania Shibley,

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Speaker 4: and then has made more time for Israeli voices and

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Speaker 4: Israeli specific panels at that book festival, and simply because

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Speaker 4: she's a Palestinian. She writes books dealing with real, factual

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Speaker 4: Palestinian history, and her books are critical of Israel. But

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Speaker 4: the silencing of Palestinian voices is a global project. It

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Speaker 4: is across all media industries. You see it in you know,

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Speaker 4: traditional book publishing as well as journalism. Another an author

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Speaker 4: friend of mine, hannein Ricott, has had the hardest time

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Speaker 4: she's been on sub with her book, and she's been

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Speaker 4: told by multiple editors to change the main character from

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Speaker 4: a Palestinian character to just a generic Arabic character because

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Speaker 4: being Palestinian is seen as inherently too controversial to publish.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I read that. That's just I mean, again, not

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Speaker 2: completely surprised, but just so shameful that that is something

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Speaker 2: that is still happening in these modern times. I think

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Speaker 2: another thing to remember is a lot of people get

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Speaker 2: confused between the differences between being non white and white

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Speaker 2: in the scope of like this world. I guess it

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Speaker 2: just seems so obvious that colorism and racism both exist

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Speaker 2: in today's world. And I really liked what you mentioned

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Speaker 2: about the difference between colorism and racism. Can you talk

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Speaker 2: about that for a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, So I was explaining that in the Western media,

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Speaker 4: Israelis are treated as white and Palestinians are treated as

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Speaker 4: non white, and it really is regardless of the color

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Speaker 4: of your skin. So a lot of people giving me

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Speaker 4: pushback on that common say, oh, but there's black and

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Speaker 4: brown and white israelis yes, And in the racist apartheid

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Speaker 4: state that is Israel, people of different skin tones are

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Speaker 4: treated very differently. Within Israel, there was force sterilization of

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Speaker 4: African Jews immigrating to Israel. Well, when it comes to

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Speaker 4: the Western media, our view of the conflict is not

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Speaker 4: as nuanced as recognizing those differences. And so I was

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Speaker 4: explaining that colorism is discrimination based on the color of

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Speaker 4: your skin. Racism is a racial construct us about social, economic,

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Speaker 4: and legal discrimination. And while colorism is often used to

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Speaker 4: determine racism, that's not always one hundred percent the case.

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Speaker 4: And in the case of Israel, when you're talking abo

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Speaker 4: the Western media looking at Israel, they report on Israelis

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Speaker 4: as people, as people who are to be mourned, as

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Speaker 4: people are whose deaths are important, as people whose lives

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Speaker 4: are valuable, And they report on people in Gaza Palestinians,

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Speaker 4: as you know, human shields is the most sympathetic way

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Speaker 4: we hear.

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Speaker 3: Them talked about.

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Speaker 4: Their deaths are not deemed important. They are not humanized

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Speaker 4: within the media. If they're killed, they're either combatants or

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Speaker 4: they were a human shield, they were someone being used

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Speaker 4: by combatants, and their deaths are you know, maybe the

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Speaker 4: lip services paid to those debts being regrettable, but they're

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Speaker 4: seen as necessary and not not unconscionable in the way

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Speaker 4: that deaths in Israel are reported on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you bring a really good point about

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Speaker 2: the media and how important semantics are. I think something

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Speaker 2: that we've been seeing time and time again is how

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Speaker 2: deep the dehumanization goes. Like Israelis have been killed versus

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Speaker 2: Palestinians have died. The Gaza strip is being referred to.

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Speaker 2: I've seen it as an enclave. Oh my god, you know,

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Speaker 2: an enclave where terrorists lurk.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, the words used to describe the city of Gaza,

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Speaker 4: the words used to describe people as combatants, the words like,

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Speaker 4: you know, Palestinians die in a clash when that clash

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Speaker 4: was racist Jewish settlers with machine guns coming after them,

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Speaker 4: you know. So yeah, yeah, Patay does a lot of work.

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Speaker 2: It does, it does. I mean We've seen it just

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Speaker 2: recently with the hospital bombing. How the New York Times

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Speaker 2: changed their headline like three times from strike and then

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Speaker 2: to blast. I believe was what they landed on blast,

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Speaker 2: which I just find honestly comical when I really think

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Speaker 2: about it too hard.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Elizabeth War came out and condemned clasts.

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Speaker 2: Like that is just so just the passive voice is

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Speaker 2: so dangerous because it it really off usecates the truth,

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Speaker 2: which is that Palestine people are dying of genocide. Even

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Speaker 2: calling it a war or a conflict does not do

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Speaker 2: what's happening justice because it still implies there are two

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Speaker 2: equal sides that are fighting against each other versus an

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Speaker 2: occupier and oppressor versus the occupied the oppressed. So I

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Speaker 2: think semantics are so important for us to keep in

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Speaker 2: mind even when we're talking about it with our peers,

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Speaker 2: to make sure that we talk about in the correct way,

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Speaker 2: because I feel like it unconsciously becomes ingrained in us,

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Speaker 2: even if we don't realize it when we keep talking

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Speaker 2: about certain things the way the media wants us to

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Speaker 2: talk about them as a conflict or as a clash

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is.

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Speaker 4: And something else that I've really tuned into is really

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Speaker 4: being careful not to pit this as a struggle between

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Speaker 4: muscles and Jews. Any framing like that is both Islamophobic

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Speaker 4: and anti Semitic and incredibly inaccurate. This is about an

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Speaker 4: ethno state, a nation state and apartheid state, which is

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Speaker 4: Israel targeting it is captive population, and it is and

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Speaker 4: there are Palestinians who are of all different faiths who

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Speaker 4: are discriminated against because they are Palestinians within occupied Palestine.

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Speaker 4: So like, for example, it just came to my attention

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Speaker 4: that there are some in the I'm a book talker,

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Speaker 4: my book talk channels in books to gram is mostly

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Speaker 4: what I do is just, you know, share about books

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Speaker 4: for folks to read, and share.

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Speaker 3: About the books I'm working on.

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Speaker 4: And some of my fellow book talkers have been recommending

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Speaker 4: people read books by both Palestinian and Jewish authors so

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Speaker 4: they can show both sides. A Palestinian author, Hannahmushabak, just

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Speaker 4: wrote a great letter to sort of call in our

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Speaker 4: community and explain this is a this is very anti

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Speaker 4: semitic to conflate Judaism with Israel.

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Speaker 3: The policies of Israel.

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Speaker 4: You know, yesterday we saw five hundred Jewish activists get

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Speaker 4: arrested in the Capitol building here in DC in protests

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Speaker 4: and demanding an immediate ceasefire in Gaza. So there are many,

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Speaker 4: many anti Zionist Jews. Judaism and Zionism are not the

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Speaker 4: same thing, but conflating them gives Israel more power and

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Speaker 4: gives it a stronger moral foothold to say, oh, we're

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Speaker 4: representing all Jews, not just this state. So that's something

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Speaker 4: also to be really careful about, is to not pit

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Speaker 4: this as a Muslim versus Jewish fight, because it's not.

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Speaker 4: It's about Israel, the state versus Palestinian people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's vital to remember. Let's take our first break

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Speaker 2: right here, and we will beat right back and we

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Speaker 2: are back. You were just talking about how this is

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Speaker 2: just one percent not a religious issue, and I think

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Speaker 2: talking about semantics again. I framing it as a religious

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Speaker 2: issue is another way for people to stop talking about it,

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Speaker 2: to be too afraid to get into this complicated, ancient

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Speaker 2: battle of all times, archaic thing that we can't even

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Speaker 2: get into because we can't understand it. I think the

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Speaker 2: Zionist narrative wants us to believe it's about religion. So

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Speaker 2: people can ignore what's actually going on and be too

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Speaker 2: scared to speak out. It's like time and time again.

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Speaker 2: Something that I want to remind people is that it's

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Speaker 2: not Muslim versus Jewish, which is what it gets framed

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Speaker 2: by most of the time. But speaking of Zionism and

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Speaker 2: how it's not equated to the Jewish religion at all.

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Speaker 2: If anything, Zionism is anti Semitic in and of itself.

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Speaker 3: I believe that wholeheartedly.

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Speaker 4: I believe Zionism makes all do so much more unsafe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's also rooted in a lot of anti Semitism.

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Speaker 2: Even the way it was even the way the state

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Speaker 2: of Israel was created was Europeans being like, hey, Jews,

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Speaker 2: can you go here? It wasn't this gift to the

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Speaker 2: Jewish people. It was also about to be in Africa,

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Speaker 2: which I find fascinating. And also I think people always

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Speaker 2: forget the majority of Zionists in the United States are

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Speaker 2: Evangelical Christians. That is one percent accurate. That's why they

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Speaker 2: support Zionism, and it's because they want all the Jews

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Speaker 2: to go to Israel for the rapture to happen. It

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Speaker 2: is the most like comic book idea I've ever heard,

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Speaker 2: and everyone just goes along with it. Yeah, that brings

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Speaker 2: me to another thing he brought up in your videos

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Speaker 2: about needing a homeland. I think what you discussed is

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Speaker 2: really important because because of this narrative that a lot

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Speaker 2: of Zionists teach to Jewish people about how they're constantly

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Speaker 2: being perted, I think people are led to believe that

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Speaker 2: Israel is their safe haven, Like if all us fails,

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Speaker 2: I have Israel to go back to that as my home,

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Speaker 2: even like American Jews that have no connection to Israel. Really, why,

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Speaker 2: in your opinion, do the Jewish people not necessarily need

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Speaker 2: a homeland? Right?

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Speaker 4: Well, I made that video speaking to like other leftists.

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Speaker 4: I was addressing other leftists. So I think if you

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Speaker 4: agree with me on the premise that everyone should have

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Speaker 4: a safe place to live and everyone should have equal rights,

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Speaker 4: which I think are two pretty pretty basic tenets of

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Speaker 4: being a leftist, then you just can't have anybody having

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Speaker 4: a theocratic ethno state, which is what Israel is de

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Speaker 4: fact I mean they say they're not, but that is

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Speaker 4: how they act.

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Speaker 3: And how that is how that country is run.

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Speaker 4: And so you know a lot of people misinterpreted that videos,

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Speaker 4: as you know, try kind of try to argue with me, saying,

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Speaker 4: but there's other theocratic ethno states. But I'm saying, yeah,

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Speaker 4: if you're a leftist, you should think that's bad everywhere,

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Speaker 4: because a theocratic ethno state is an inherently fascist construct.

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Speaker 4: It's inherently saying one religion and or one ethnicity, in

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Speaker 4: the case of the way Israel interprets Judaism, these people

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Speaker 4: are more valuable and are more citizens here and have

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Speaker 4: more rights here than everybody else. And that is just

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Speaker 4: incompatible with leftist values, I think. And so the point

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Speaker 4: of that video is nobody should have a theocratic ethno state.

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Speaker 4: And this is a line that I've heard even some

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Speaker 4: leftist Jews saying, well, oh, we you know, this is

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Speaker 4: a complicated issue because Jews need a homeland. Well, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 4: our world is just two heterogenous, too diverse. You know,

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Speaker 4: migrations have been going on for tens of thousands of

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Speaker 4: years all over the place. There's no one plot of

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Speaker 4: land on Earth anymore that you can carve out and say, Okay,

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Speaker 4: just this one type of people are going to get

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Speaker 4: to live.

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Speaker 3: Here and be citizens here and have rights here.

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Speaker 4: Now I'm an anarchist personally, so I when I say

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Speaker 4: no theocratic ethno states, I'm also like in a bigger

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Speaker 4: picture way saying like no states would be the ideal

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Speaker 4: for me. But certainly theocratic ethno states are even worse

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Speaker 4: within that framework compared to like liberal democracies or something.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, that was a video that was like intended

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Speaker 4: to be an in group conversation, and then it got

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Speaker 4: a million views and got because my following has like

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Speaker 4: really exploded over the last week. So I wasn't expecting

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Speaker 4: it to go so far. And so for people who

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Speaker 4: idealize ethno states, like Japan or Sweden, they were really

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Speaker 4: having a hard time with me with me saying that,

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Speaker 4: and think it was really anti semitic for me to say, Oh,

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Speaker 4: I don't think Jews should have theocratic ethno state, but no,

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Speaker 4: I think nobody should have a theocratic ethno state.

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Speaker 2: That's a really good point to make. It's I mean,

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Speaker 2: it goes back to the idea of Jewish suffering being

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Speaker 2: more valuable in some way than other suffering. I think

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Speaker 2: it continues this hierarchy of sorts and everything you described

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Speaker 2: about people not being treated the same and not having

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Speaker 2: enough rights. That's all apartheid. I think people forget like

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Speaker 2: Israel is committing the definition of apartheid and has been

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Speaker 2: against the Palestinian people, and I find it weird that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Amy Schumer posted this crazy video proving in

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Speaker 2: her words that it's not an apartheid state actually and

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Speaker 2: how people have all the rights in the world when

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Speaker 2: in reality it's shameful.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like the UN, Amnesty, International, Human Rights Watch

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Speaker 4: are all saying this is an apartheid state. But okay,

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Speaker 4: Amy Schumer, Yeah, it's it's not actually that complicated.

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Speaker 2: It's really not. I've been really appreciating Amanda Seals. She

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Speaker 2: did like a reaction video to what Amy Schumer posted

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Speaker 2: and laid out all the racist reasons why actually apartheid

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Speaker 2: is what you would call that. I think something that

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Speaker 2: has bothered me within the both sides thing is this

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Speaker 2: is not a term that I hear often anymore. But

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Speaker 2: like the progressive except Palestine, I think that idea has

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Speaker 2: been really damaging because it makes it seem like you

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Speaker 2: can still be so liberal and progressive and still not

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Speaker 2: really recognize that Palestinians are being genocided for almost a century.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is just so frustrating because again, what

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Speaker 4: you're seeing in Palestine, it's so stark, the violence is

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Speaker 4: so obvious, and it's so egregious. And there's all these

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Speaker 4: social justice you know, organizations and accounts that I followed.

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Speaker 3: There's like queer Jewish.

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Speaker 4: Liberation accounts who have said nothing about Palestine. There's also

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Speaker 4: non jew its, just queer you know, all sorts of

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Speaker 4: queer liberation queer activists out there, which is like a

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Speaker 4: whole other network that I'm tapped in into, and many

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Speaker 4: of them are staying silent on this genocide. And it's

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Speaker 4: like we are all fighting the same evils, the same

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Speaker 4: type of oppression, and if you want people to stand

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Speaker 4: with you when your rights are being taken away, you

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Speaker 4: got to stand with everybody else.

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Speaker 3: That's the only way.

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Speaker 4: Intersectionality is the only way that we can overcome these

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Speaker 4: enormous forces of oppression in the world. So, yeah, it's

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Speaker 4: it's been very frustrating to see just how many you know,

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Speaker 4: anti racist organizations, queer liberation organizations are just staying completely

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Speaker 4: silent on Palestine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I have been really frustrated about that as well, because

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Speaker 2: it encourages this sort of selective outrage that is reserved

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Speaker 2: for certain kind of people that are deemed as human

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Speaker 2: versus the people that are not. I really believe one

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Speaker 2: of the most powerful voices in the fight for Palatine

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Speaker 2: liberation are Jewish anti Zionists because they can speak to

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Speaker 2: what people deem is the source of that problem from

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Speaker 2: a different place. But I hope you realize how important

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Speaker 2: your voice is just in general, especially now. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just really thank you for what you've been doing,

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Speaker 2: because it's kind of scary too. I'm sure to suddenly

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Speaker 2: have a big platform and have all these people analyzing

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Speaker 2: everything you're saying and trying to find little holes in

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Speaker 2: your arguments. But I appreciate that you're not backing down.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I went from six thousand to one hundred eighty thousand

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Speaker 4: followers on Instagram in like a week.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize that you started a six thousand. I

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Speaker 2: was wondering about that. That is a crazy jump.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it happened really really fast.

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Speaker 4: And on TikTok too, I had I had fifty thousand

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00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 4: on TikTok just from my book talk author talk account,

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00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 4: which I've been you know, growing over the course of

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Speaker 4: two years, and then it went.

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00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 3: Now it's like at one.

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00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 4: Hundred and fifty thousand, so like tripled on TikTok. But yeah,

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00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 4: it's definitely made me more careful about what I say.

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00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 4: Like again, I had that one video that was sort

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00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 4: of like an in group comment to leftists because I'm

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00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 4: used to being on like the leftist side of TikTok,

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00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 4: and then realized, like, oh crap, like everything I say

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00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 4: is going to go out to like absolutely every single

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00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 4: kind of audience, So I need to like really think

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00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 4: about the context of what I say and.

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Speaker 3: That it Yeah, it's a it's a lot. It's a lot.

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00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I mean, it sounds really overwhelming and even

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00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 2: navigating it well and I don't know, I really appreciate you.

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00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,239
Speaker 2: Before we wrap this up, I would love for you

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00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: to talk about your work a little bit, maybe your

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00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: book where people can find it, where they can support

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00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: you in your work. The platform is all yours.

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00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

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00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 4: So I actually had a book come out about a

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00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 4: month ago called The Free People's Village, and it is

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00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 4: relevant to this topic. It's a very leftist book. It's

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00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 4: about a punk band organizing to save their warehouse from

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00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 4: demolition to make room for a new electromatic magnetic hyperway

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00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 4: in an alternate timeline where al Gore won the two

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00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 4: thousand election and declared a war on climate change instead

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00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 4: of a war on terror. But it's a book that's

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00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 4: really critical of neoliberal politics. So this solar punk utopia

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00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 4: that's been created this world has really only impacted wealthy

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00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 4: white neighborhoods while leaving everybody else behind. So it's a

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00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 4: book about centering racial justice within climate organizing. And the

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00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 4: final scene of the book actually takes place at a

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00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 4: Free Palestine protest, and so that's definitely like a present

472
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,439
Speaker 4: throughout the book, and based on experiences I've had organizing

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00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 4: with the incredible Students for Justice in Palestine and Palestini

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00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 4: youth movement organizers that we have here in Houston.

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00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 3: So for people who.

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00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 4: Are listeners of this podcast, I do think they would

477
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 4: enjoy the Free People's Village. And you can get it.

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00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 4: The best place to get it is always your local

479
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 4: indie bookstore. Of course, you can also support your local

480
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 4: indie bookstore by shopping at bookshop dot org, which allows

481
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 4: you all the convenience of ordering online, but you get

482
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 4: to pick your favorite indie bookstore to benefit. And then

483
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 4: of course you can get it also from all of

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00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 4: the big corporate retailers, and it's available in hardcover and

485
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,479
Speaker 4: ebook and audiobook. And you can find me online at

486
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 4: sim Kern on TikTok and if you search simcar it's

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00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 4: at sim Bookstagram's badly on Instagram, but if you just

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00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 4: search sim Kernel, I'll pop up on Instagram.

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00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: And that is s I N K E r N.

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00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 3: For people that don't know, Yes, just.

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00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 2: To leave us with something that we can take away

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00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: from this, do you have any advice for people that

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00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: are trying to open up these discussions with their peers

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00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: and how should they approach them? And I don't know.

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00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: I think these conversations are essential to humanizing Palestinians. Again,

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00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: so do you have any advice before we sign off?

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00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 4: You know, same advice which was the first piece I gave,

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00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 4: which was just.

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00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 3: To read a lot and learn.

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00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 4: A lot and seek out those Palestinian voices. Also Jewish

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00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 4: Voice for Peace.

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00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 3: If you go to.

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00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 4: Their JVP dot org website, they have a ton of

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00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 4: like great tools and kits for learning how to talk

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00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 4: about Palestine. And so I would say, you know, always

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00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 4: be learning and reading if you feel like you don't

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00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 4: have the language yet to have these conversations.

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00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 3: Like you said, it's really.

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00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 4: Powerful to repost things by commentators that you respect, journalists

510
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 4: on the ground in Gaza right now who are doing amazing,

511
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 4: courageous work. Just letting people know what is happening and

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00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 4: putting something out that disrupts an imperialist narrative can be

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00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 4: really really powerful.

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00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 2: Thank you for saying all of that, because it's really needed.

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00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: And I will put in the description all the info

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00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: to where you can follow sim and their work, and

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00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: maybe I can put some recommendations for Palestinian books as well.

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00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: And yeah, that's the episode. Thank you so much for

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00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 2: being here.

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00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me Free Palestine.

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Speaker 1: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

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00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

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00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

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00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated monthly,

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00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: cool zone Meedia dot com, slash sources. Thanks for listening