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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the.

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Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on the show, I'm

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Speaker 2: joined by Kent Boucher and Nicholas Lerio of Hoxy Native

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Speaker 2: Seeds and the Prairie Farm Podcast to discuss exactly why

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Speaker 2: native prairie grasses and forbes and wildflowers are so beneficial

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Speaker 2: to whitetail deer and wildlife of all types, and exactly

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Speaker 2: how we can get more of that kind of habitat

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Speaker 2: on the ground. Really, all right, welcome back to the

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Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light.

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Speaker 3: Today in the show, we are talking prairie.

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Speaker 2: We are discussing why native prairie ecosystems are so power

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Speaker 2: or wildlife of all types, how they can specifically help

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Speaker 2: you as a white tailed deer hunter, and a whole

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Speaker 2: lot more. My guests today, as I mentioned at the top,

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Speaker 2: are the driving forces behind Hoxeyed Native Seeds, and they're

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Speaker 2: the co hosts of the Prairie Farm Podcast, Kent Boucher

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Speaker 2: and Nicholas Lerio, these guys are hands on experts when

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Speaker 2: it comes to native prairie habitat, and given their experience

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Speaker 2: running Hoxy Native Seeds it's a company that develops and

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Speaker 2: sells native seed blends. They have this very you know,

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Speaker 2: personal experience with prairie habitat, with you know, putting.

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Speaker 3: This stuff on the ground.

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Speaker 2: But then they also have this very interesting kind of

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Speaker 2: zoomed out perspective as hosts of the Prairie Farm Podcast,

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Speaker 2: because what they do on that show is they speak

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Speaker 2: to all sorts of experts around the country and the

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Speaker 2: world about, you know, prairie ecosystems, about how all this

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Speaker 2: impacts wildlife of all types, sometimes upland birds, sometimes it's turkeys,

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Speaker 2: sometimes it's deer. They're speaking to people about broader farm

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Speaker 2: related issues, conservation related issues, and so by way of

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Speaker 2: all of these interviews and then also that hands on

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Speaker 2: experience working with native seas and native prairie ecosystems, they

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Speaker 2: have this kind of like down in the dirt experience,

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Speaker 2: but then up in the clouds understanding of how it

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Speaker 2: all applies to things that are relevant to us. So

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Speaker 2: for that reason I'm thrilled to have these guys in

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Speaker 2: the show. They're also just very likable, so they're fun

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Speaker 2: to chat with, the fun to listen to. We explore

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Speaker 2: these two simple topics when you drill it right down.

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Speaker 2: Number one, why should deer hunters care about prairie habitat?

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Speaker 2: And number two, if we believe that prairie habitat is important,

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Speaker 2: then how do we get about getting some of this

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Speaker 2: on the ground in our neck of the woods.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 2: To sum it all up as simply as I possibly can,

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Speaker 2: that is the conversation today. And so with that, let's

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Speaker 2: just kick it to my conversation with Kent and Nick.

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Speaker 3: Enjoy all right with me?

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Speaker 2: Now on the line is Nicholas Lerio and Kent Boucher.

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Speaker 2: Thank you guys for being here today. Yeah, I'm glad

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Speaker 2: this is happening. You guys had me on the show

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Speaker 2: on your show about a year ago, and I.

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Speaker 3: Really enjoyed that conversation that we had.

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Speaker 2: Your podcast and the stuff you guys have been doing

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Speaker 2: has been recommended to me by a number of people

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Speaker 2: over the years. And so once I kind of connected

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Speaker 2: the dots between Kent, who you know, I had chatted.

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Speaker 3: With you years before that.

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Speaker 2: I guess on you know about first gen hunter kind

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Speaker 2: of things, I think, right, And it's all kind of

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Speaker 2: circle back to where we are now. You both have

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Speaker 2: been doing really really cool work, and I've just been

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Speaker 2: slow to recognize the relevance and the overlap with what

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Speaker 2: so many of us deer hunters are thinking about, especially

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Speaker 2: these days.

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Speaker 3: So that is my typical.

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Speaker 2: Long winded Mark Kenyan way of saying, I'm very interested

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Speaker 2: in what you have to say to this first question,

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Speaker 2: which is kind of getting right to the heart of

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Speaker 2: this whole conversation. What I want to know is why

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Speaker 2: in the world should a deer hunter care about prairie?

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Speaker 3: Why is that something?

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Speaker 2: Why would wildflowers and native grasses and forbes in any

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Speaker 2: way whatsoever be of interest or relevance to someone like

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Speaker 2: me or our listeners who likes to get out there

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Speaker 2: and shoot deer. Kent, you're a deer hunter yourself. Do

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Speaker 2: you want to tackle that one first?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd love to, and just really appreciate you having

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Speaker 4: us on the show. And I got to say, one

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Speaker 4: of the people that I know recommended our show to

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Speaker 4: you because he told me so just sent me this

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Speaker 4: jealousy inducing picture of a giant shed he picked up

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Speaker 4: this morning with his son, said, I hope you're.

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Speaker 3: Not working today that same picture. Yeah, that was a dandy.

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Speaker 3: But man, one day I was talking to Ken and

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Speaker 3: he was he was he was a little grumpy. He

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Speaker 3: was in the field. He was in he was planting

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Speaker 3: someone else's field is very bumpy. And then I'm not kidding,

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Speaker 3: I mean he was kind of having a rough day.

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Speaker 3: An hour later, he calls it, I just bound my

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Speaker 3: first shed of the season. His day made just one

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Speaker 3: little shed he bound to the field. Yeah, it will

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Speaker 3: make it. That really helps.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, ironically, you know this, this story can kind

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Speaker 4: of answer your question mark. I was, I was planting

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Speaker 4: a prairie, as Nick tells that story. And actually I

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Speaker 4: didn't call him an hour later. He was still on

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Speaker 4: the phone with me during my grumpy rant, and I

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Speaker 4: had to stop the tractor to scoop that shut up.

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Speaker 3: But when you think of Iowa, where where we have.

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Speaker 4: Cornfields and bean fields, which is roughly thirty million acres

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Speaker 4: of our thirty six and some change million acres of

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Speaker 4: surface area in our state, that would have largely been prairie,

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Speaker 4: not all of it, of course, there would have been

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Speaker 4: some wetlands in there that we've drained, there'd be forests

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Speaker 4: in different spots that we have, and even some of

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Speaker 4: the areas that we would classify as prairie would have

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Speaker 4: been more of an oak savannah area. But I mean,

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Speaker 4: for simple displacement, it's largely just been that we got

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Speaker 4: rid of prairie and we put in corn and beans.

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Speaker 4: And to be honest with the story, and I probably

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Speaker 4: actually learned this little fact off your podcast years ago, Mark,

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Speaker 4: but we know that today we have more deer in

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Speaker 4: North America than when Chris Columbus made his way over here,

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Speaker 4: and so deer have benefited from just a population standpoint.

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Speaker 4: They have benefited from land development, for sure. However, they

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Speaker 4: existed here long before we developed that land, and they

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Speaker 4: were thriving in our vast prairie ecosystems that we had

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Speaker 4: here in Iowa, and not just in Iowa, all throughout

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Speaker 4: the Midwest and and and in different regions of what

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Speaker 4: we normally consider to be prairie areas. I know you've

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Speaker 4: done some white tail hunting man all over this country,

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Speaker 4: and I've had the privilege to do a little bit

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Speaker 4: in places like Nebraska where western Nebraska where it's you know,

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Speaker 4: short maybe some mixed grass prairie, but places that you

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Speaker 4: just do not think when you're there, you kind of

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Speaker 4: get that feeling like man of mine, like is this

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Speaker 4: like some kind of a snipe hunt here?

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Speaker 3: You know, like there's deer in here, you know, And

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Speaker 3: sure enough.

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Speaker 4: They're thriving on on, you know, even a much more

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Speaker 4: arid and much shorter grass and even competing with you know,

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Speaker 4: huge cattle herds that are out there too. They're still

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Speaker 4: able to to to make a go of it. And

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Speaker 4: so prairie and deer we don't really think of it

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Speaker 4: this way, but but historic it's hand in glove. They're

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Speaker 4: they're an animal of the prairie. Now certainly they they're

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Speaker 4: a creature of the edge. So those those wetlands that

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Speaker 4: I talked about, those oak savannahs, the forest and actually, ironically,

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Speaker 4: I think it historically I was believed to have been

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Speaker 4: about five percent forested, and that we're still around that today.

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Speaker 4: And so I wonder, Okay, where do we have forest

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Speaker 4: today that we didn't back then? And I think probably

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Speaker 4: a lot of the places where we do still have

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Speaker 4: forest there, they're still forest there today.

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Speaker 3: But but.

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Speaker 4: You do need that edge for you know, deer to

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Speaker 4: really thrive. But prairies were definitely a part of how

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Speaker 4: they they survived. And then taking it back to shed hunting.

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Speaker 4: Whenever I'm shed hunting, I get real excited when I

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Speaker 4: see a little bit of timber with a big, old,

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Speaker 4: south facing sloped prairie and that's where I'm going to be.

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Speaker 3: That's where I'm going to be heading first.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Nick, what do you you know? I know, you

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Speaker 2: guys have a lot of different customers. You guys, you know,

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Speaker 2: market to a why swath of different types of buyers.

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Speaker 2: But when somebody comes to you who has this wildlife

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Speaker 2: perspective and they they you know, care about deer and

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Speaker 2: critters like that, how do you explain to them why this,

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Speaker 2: you know, why native grasses and forbes and flowers, why

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Speaker 2: that might be something they should incorporate into their management.

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Speaker 3: Well, I want to be really clear, as you know,

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Speaker 3: a non deer hunter I will never change their mind,

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Speaker 3: But I sometimes I use two little words that help

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Speaker 3: change their mind. I say the words uh skips law

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Speaker 3: I said uh and uh you know a ritual red

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Speaker 3: skip slide. Usually if he says something, you know it

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Speaker 3: turns out to be pretty good for the white tail.

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Speaker 3: But in all seriousness, if they already understand, they get it,

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Speaker 3: and I just guide them through different forbes that white

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Speaker 3: tail are known to uh kind of concentrate select on,

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Speaker 3: but uh if not. I use the metaphor that a

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Speaker 3: Jenga tower pretty often, and I just tell them, you know, us,

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Speaker 3: white tail deer, bison used to be there. We're kind

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Speaker 3: of all at the top of this Janngu tower and

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Speaker 3: you can pull out just when you're playing Jenga. You

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Speaker 3: can pull out a piece or two at a time.

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Speaker 3: It's okay, that's fine, But you pull out enough pieces,

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Speaker 3: you get rid of enough diversity, the whole thing comes

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Speaker 3: tumbling down. Maybe there's a few bricks at the bottom

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Speaker 3: that lasts, but those aren't white tail deer, and it's

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Speaker 3: not us. It's like it's like crab grass, cockroaches and

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Speaker 3: cottontail bunnies. You know, those are the only things that

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Speaker 3: are going to be around. And so when you start

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Speaker 3: walking through there, and I say, hey, by the way,

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Speaker 3: if you have, if you're doing forty acres of this

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Speaker 3: prairie for your white tail, I hope you enjoy bird

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Speaker 3: hunting as well. Because you're gonna get a lot of

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Speaker 3: those out there, or we actually there's a gentleman that

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Speaker 3: put and now he put hundreds of acres in and

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Speaker 3: he was able to do that in Iowa saw an

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Speaker 3: elk and so you know there and just more than

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Speaker 3: one more than want occurrence of this. So to speak

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Speaker 3: their language, I can't do it all the way and

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Speaker 3: to be able to connect with them on the things

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Speaker 3: that they're able to talk about. But I do know

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Speaker 3: that you know, our ecosystem is a Jenga tower, and

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Speaker 3: white teled deer are in that just as much as

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Speaker 3: any others. And you know, habitat those are kind of

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Speaker 3: the big words, right habitat. So is habitat made out

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Speaker 3: of miscanthus? Is it made out of just straight switch grass?

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Speaker 3: I would argue not, there's some utility when you're hunting there.

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Speaker 3: I know they make screens and things like that. Not

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Speaker 3: totally against those making a screen with switch grass. But

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Speaker 3: if you're wanting habitat, if you wanting to find places

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Speaker 3: that people are betting or white tail are betting, then

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Speaker 3: you're gonna want that diversity. And if you want them

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Speaker 3: traveling through all year round. Now we're talking about having

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Speaker 3: their diversity of different forbes that bloom different during different

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Speaker 3: periods and different height grass coming up at different times.

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Speaker 3: And now we've got a whole conversation where it's very

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Speaker 3: livable for most of the year for the tail. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I love that Jenga analogy. That's a great one.

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Speaker 2: Can you speak to a little bit, can you paint

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Speaker 2: that picture a little bit more about how all the

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Speaker 2: other Jenga pieces benefit from the from these types of ecosystems,

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Speaker 2: because you guys just point out like there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of ways this directly helps deer. But of course, then

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Speaker 2: you know, if you start to understand that the entire

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Speaker 2: Jenga tower matters, then that also means that the upland

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Speaker 2: birds matter, and that means the turkey's matter, and that

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Speaker 2: means that the butterflies and the songbirds and the ants

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Speaker 2: and the cottontails and all that probably matters too. And

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Speaker 2: from everything I've learned over the years, it seems like

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Speaker 2: all of those species and many many others benefit from

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Speaker 2: this habitat. But can you can you help us understand

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Speaker 2: that in more detail, because you guys, you guys are

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Speaker 2: masters of this world.

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Speaker 3: In a way that I'm just not oh thanks. Well, uh,

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Speaker 3: I would first start by even taking a step back

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Speaker 3: and saying, uh, diversity is just what it takes to

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Speaker 3: be healthy. For instance, at our office, Ken and I

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Speaker 3: are not organized at all, but we desperately need someone

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Speaker 3: in the office that's organized. We've got to have people

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Speaker 3: thinking different things. And Ken and I are arguing about

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Speaker 3: stuff all the time about how we want to do

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Speaker 3: business or what new species wi we want to grow

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Speaker 3: and that, and that creates a much stronger work ecosystem.

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Speaker 3: It's just a principle of life. So now let's take

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Speaker 3: that and put it in with prairie. There are species,

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Speaker 3: they're called hem and parasites that literally can only grow

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Speaker 3: on other species, and they zap these other species of

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Speaker 3: their nutrients. And that's the only way bastard towflax, a

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Speaker 3: real a real name of a plant can only grow Yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry,

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Speaker 3: but it likes to grow on sedges and there's a

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Speaker 3: few other things it needs that that ecosystem, that diversity

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Speaker 3: in there. And if you don't have diversity of let's

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Speaker 3: say your forbes, especially your lagoon forbes, well, big blue

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Speaker 3: stem will get in there, it'll totally dominate, and then

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Speaker 3: it'll zap itself dry and dead, and it will actually

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Speaker 3: allow other woody encroachment, invasive wood encroachment, more than it

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Speaker 3: would have otherwise because it doesn't have the nitrogen and

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Speaker 3: from the lagoons to be able to boost the grass

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Speaker 3: right there, So there are I would dare say thousands

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Speaker 3: or millions of relationships of plants to plants that are

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Speaker 3: required for the ecosystem. That's just at the flora base.

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Speaker 3: Now let's move to the fauna. I mean, big bluestem

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Speaker 3: was carried here a little bit by wind, but they

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Speaker 3: think probably mostly by hide. It came from the east

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Speaker 3: coast all the way to the Midwest. It was carried

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Speaker 3: by hide. There are some species that won't, that really

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Speaker 3: struggle to break dormancy if they're not eaten by birds. Right,

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Speaker 3: And so you start adding all of these things together again,

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Speaker 3: thousands or millions of relationships between flora and fauna. And

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Speaker 3: now you start taking away enough of those Jenga pieces

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Speaker 3: and the other Jenga pieces can't exist. And you know,

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Speaker 3: in the Midwest we're privileges some of the greatest soil

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Speaker 3: in the world. There's only two other places on Earth

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Speaker 3: that compare ones in Ukraine you know, coincidentally enough, and

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Speaker 3: one is in South America where they're also growing a

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Speaker 3: lot of corn, and that was because of two major components.

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Speaker 3: It was the glaciers and the prairie and the diversity

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Speaker 3: that came with the prairie and the worms that came

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Speaker 3: because of the diversity of the prairie. And you dug

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Speaker 3: up this really rich black soil that we as a

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Speaker 3: Midwest have sustenance off of, not I mean just food,

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Speaker 3: even economically, and so there's all these things that go together,

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Speaker 3: and if you take away too many of them, you

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Speaker 3: start losing all of them. Would you add anything to that, Kemp?

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Speaker 3: I think Nick did did a really nice job. They're

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Speaker 3: summing it up.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, diversity, you know, you think of whether you're

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Speaker 4: talking about the Djenga Tower model or even just what

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Speaker 4: we know about all ecosystems there or even I think

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Speaker 4: probably the best. So I used to be a biology teacher,

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Speaker 4: and I'd like it where you could take different sections

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Speaker 4: of biology and use a you know, use a term

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Speaker 4: or an illustration that transfers across to other, you know,

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Speaker 4: studies within life sciences. So to me, it's I like

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Speaker 4: to compare an ecosystem with like genetics. Right, when you

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Speaker 4: look at the science of genetics, you want the most

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Speaker 4: individuals in a population that have a different set of

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Speaker 4: genetic traits, because then you have what we call a

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Speaker 4: deeper gene pool, right, you have you have more traits

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Speaker 4: available among those individuals, so that if there's some kind

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Speaker 4: of disturbance to the environment that these organisms are living in,

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Speaker 4: they can absorb that disturbance and roll with the punches

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Speaker 4: through time. They can they can stick around. And it's

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Speaker 4: really a similar illustration with an ecology. The more components

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Speaker 4: you have, the more you.

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Speaker 3: Can absorb those blows.

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Speaker 4: And to continue with Nick's Jenga model, which he is

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Speaker 4: just he's playing it down right now.

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Speaker 3: He is just doing victory laps in his brain.

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Speaker 4: He's been talking to me about this, this Jenga tower

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Speaker 4: metaphor for years.

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Speaker 3: Time I get us to speak in place, it's like

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Speaker 3: the easiest way to communicate you. That's what his name

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Speaker 3: will be on Suday.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, since you're so much since you're aging

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Speaker 4: so much faster than me, Nicholas, I will actually your headstone.

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Speaker 4: I'll make it look like a Jenga tower. But the

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Speaker 4: point is though that some of those Jenga pieces are

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Speaker 4: gone and we can't get them back. And from a

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Speaker 4: prairie reconstruction standpoint, we see that just in putting together

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Speaker 4: a mix now something I'll give Nicholas a lot of

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Speaker 4: credit for. He designs our mixes, our seed mixes. He

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Speaker 4: works his tail off to find as many species as

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Speaker 4: he can put into a mix without the mix becoming

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Speaker 4: unaffordable to your average consumer.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: And some people they come to you and say, no

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Speaker 4: matter the cost, give me the best you got. But

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Speaker 4: a lot of the prairie acres we see going back

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Speaker 4: onto the map. Let's be honest, it's a it's an

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Speaker 4: old farmer who decided he was going to enroll some

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Speaker 4: acres into CRP, and he, you know, he's got some

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Speaker 4: level of care in it turning out to be a

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Speaker 4: good finished prairie. But a lot of times money is

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Speaker 4: the biggest factor, right, And so Nick tries to create

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Speaker 4: value not just for the people who are are willing

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Speaker 4: to show up with you know, a fat wallet, but

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Speaker 4: for people who want to just do the bare minimum.

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Speaker 4: Because he's trying to get as many of those Jenga

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Speaker 4: pieces back into the into the tower as possible, but

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Speaker 4: even still compared to what these uh, you know, these

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Speaker 4: prairies were in their original state. A lot of times

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Speaker 4: it pales in comparison to to what all was there.

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Speaker 4: So it is important to recognize what can be there,

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Speaker 4: what was there, and what we we can't replace. But

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Speaker 4: we need to try and compensate in other ways because

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Speaker 4: of all those different benefits that Nicholas talked about.

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Speaker 2: You know, I heard you say Nicholas wants that you

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Speaker 2: almost get more excited when you hear about like a

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Speaker 2: small landowner planting your guys seed because they can focus

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Speaker 2: on like nurturing it and actually identifying like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this speci is doing well and making sure that this

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Speaker 2: speci is there. While you know, someone who's planted hundreds

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Speaker 2: of acres, you know, could never really keep tabs on

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Speaker 2: all these different you know, such and such hogwarts or whatever.

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Speaker 3: There's probably not a hogwarts should there should be.

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Speaker 2: But uh but but but I think you know what

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Speaker 2: came what came out of that when I was listening

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Speaker 2: to you, is this, like how much you actually cared

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Speaker 2: about getting this prairie like back on the landscape, getting

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Speaker 2: these native species back out there, you know, above and

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Speaker 2: beyond just the business for you, it was more like

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Speaker 2: like a calling, like you want to see these species

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Speaker 2: flourishing out there above and beyond just the practical side

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Speaker 2: of it. Why do you care so much about that.

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Speaker 3: About diversity or about people caring about their uh CRP

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Speaker 3: or their their their finished career.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, about seeing that's come to life on the landscape.

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Speaker 2: Why why are you actually genuinely personally excited when you

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Speaker 2: see like, oh, this person is nurturing this species and

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Speaker 2: it's actually working, and this prairie is actually out there.

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Speaker 2: It just seems like it's more than just oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I want to see my customer succeeds they buy more

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Speaker 2: from me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well that that is a good question, And I'd

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Speaker 3: say there's probably three major parts to it that kind

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Speaker 3: of have compounded and sit in my have been sitting

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Speaker 3: in my brain for the past several years. But I

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Speaker 3: went to Bible school, studied Bible and counseling, went to

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Speaker 3: Bethel School in Reading California. Reading California. Man, that's the

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Speaker 3: place to be that the mountains that surround it on

381
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Speaker 3: three sides. Man, I was very different. So I'm moved

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Speaker 3: back to Iowa. But what they taught us at that

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Speaker 3: school was contentment. That was a big deal. They had

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Speaker 3: a lot of slogans around contentment and being thankful for

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Speaker 3: what you have. And and when when you see prairie

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Speaker 3: not a lot of money, there's not a lot of

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Speaker 3: gain to be had out of prairie other than beauty

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Speaker 3: that comes out of deep satisfaction in your soul. And

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Speaker 3: I really care about humans in the state of human souls,

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Speaker 3: and and and are they at peace? Are they not

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Speaker 3: at peace? That matters to me a lot, me and

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Speaker 3: my friends, and and so that would be peace number one.

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Speaker 3: Peace number two is that it is a tragedy to

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Speaker 3: me how much we consider ourselves the lords of the

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Speaker 3: land and not serving the land. Our mutual friend, Doug Duran,

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Speaker 3: he says this, I know what the hunter gets, I

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Speaker 3: know what the the landowner, I know what the white

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Speaker 3: tail get, But what does the land get? You know,

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Speaker 3: who's who's actually helping the land. And that really struck me.

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Speaker 3: And just like, can I care about something that could

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Speaker 3: never give me anything material gain back? Can I do that?

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Speaker 3: And then the third piece is just like our longevity

403
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Speaker 3: here in the Midwest, there's you know, political forces at

404
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 3: play and all these things. But but can we set

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Speaker 3: aside some akers to allow wildlife to live so our

406
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Speaker 3: own health and the land's health can be uh can flourish.

407
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Speaker 3: And I understand that that's a very complicated, difficult question

408
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Speaker 3: that deals with a lot of different people, a lot

409
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Speaker 3: of different interest groups. But just on a macro level,

410
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Speaker 3: I would love to see us be able to be

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Speaker 3: able to decide as a society we care about this

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Speaker 3: and and what our futures. And I mean, in Iowa specifically,

413
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Speaker 3: our kids are leaving. I mean they're going to Michigan,

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Speaker 3: they're going to Colorado, they're going maybe going to Kansas City,

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Speaker 3: but that they're usually going further than that. And I

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Speaker 3: don't want to see Iowa die away just because we decided,

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Speaker 3: you know, it wasn't worth having any any acres around.

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Speaker 3: We ripped it all up. I'd love to see some

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Speaker 3: of it put back down. So you put those three

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Speaker 3: things together, and when I see someone excited about it, Prairie,

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00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 3: I just like they just feel like a whole person,

422
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Speaker 3: you know, they just seem real, They're they're able to

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Speaker 3: connect with things more than their phone. And I really

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Speaker 3: really appreciate that. And my wife and I we have

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00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 3: these phoneless walks right, we'll go out. We got a

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Speaker 3: big lake near us, and we'll just go walk around.

427
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Speaker 3: Just make sure you don't have your phone. And a

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Speaker 3: lot of times I really wrestle on my inside, like, oh,

429
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Speaker 3: I want to listen to something, I need to check

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Speaker 3: my email. I'm worried to you know. And then about

431
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Speaker 3: thirty forty five minutes in, you're like you start to

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Speaker 3: feel this this piece come over you. And I think

433
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 3: we don't have that as much as I would like

434
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,959
Speaker 3: us to, including myself. And so when it comes to prairie,

435
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 3: Prarie represents a lot more than just the ecology to me,

436
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 3: and I'm things, I'm willing to fight for fills, I'm

437
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 3: willing to die on.

438
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot there and I can. I obviously

439
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 2: don't have as deep of a connection as you guys

440
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 2: have to it, but certainly in my more fleeting experiences

441
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: in grind grass lands, on the Great Plains, in prairie ecosystems,

442
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: it's undeniable the abundance of life there, the tranquility available there,

443
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 2: the restorative properties.

444
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 3: Of those landscapes. You know.

445
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people, you know, recognize the

446
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: ocean maybe as being one of those kinds of landscapes

447
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 2: that can restore you. But I think grasslands in many cases,

448
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: like they're a sea of grass. I think they can

449
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 2: almost have the same kind of effect when you stand

450
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 2: out there and it's you know, the waves of wind

451
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 2: rippling a grassland or a prairie patch. And in many cases,

452
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: you know, in some of these bigger landscapes where you

453
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 2: can really see that's a pretty special place. And one

454
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 2: of the things that I've noticed when I've been on

455
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: you know, truly flourishing native prairie ecosystems, is that you

456
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 2: can it's undeniable that there's something else going on. There's

457
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 2: something different. Like when you're in a cool season grass field,

458
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 2: which is a lot of what I have around where

459
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: I live, it's just kind of like a dank, low jungle.

460
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 2: And then when you're in an area where there's native

461
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: species and diversity, it's it's it literally sounds different, it

462
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: literally smells different, and obviously looks different. You can feel

463
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: it all around you. And a big part of that

464
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 2: is all of these things flittering and fluttering around you

465
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 2: and buzzing and nipping and biting and crawling and creeping.

466
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 3: There's a lot of bugs. There's a lot of birds

467
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 3: flying all around.

468
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: Uh, there's a lot of pollination happening in my my.

469
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 2: My good friend and co host Tony Peterson, God bless him,

470
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 2: is always giving me a hard time talking about pollinators.

471
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 2: He thinks I'm a big nerd for pollinators. And I'm

472
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: hoping one of you would be willing to volunteer to

473
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 2: help make the case to Tony the pollinators that that

474
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 2: benefit so much from native grasslands and wildflower patches and

475
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: the prairie eco system. Can you tell Tony why it's

476
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 2: okay to be a fan of pollinators and why they're

477
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 2: pretty good for deer hunters and deer hunting in the

478
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 2: wider world, and somebody please make that case for me.

479
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 3: I'll let you guys fight amongst your sites.

480
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 4: I gotta say, Mark, I have an answer for you

481
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 4: on this one because I loved one of your comebacks.

482
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 4: This was a couple of years ago when I still

483
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 4: can't believe you had the courage to do this, but

484
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 4: you had Dan Johnson and Tony on there at the

485
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 4: same time. You've done it since, but it was super

486
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,479
Speaker 4: entertaining episode. But I remember one of Tony's questions was

487
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 4: he was making fun of like your love for reading

488
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 4: versus your love for pollinators, I think, And he said,

489
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 4: all right, Mark, you have to choose. Are we going

490
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 4: to burn down all the all the prairies?

491
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 5: Are we going to burn down all your favorite bookstores

492
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 5: and and the If Tony knew anything, if you knew

493
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 5: a dang thing about Perry, wouldn't ask you that question

494
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 5: because I'm so obvious.

495
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 3: Right, burn the prairies because they need it. Burn the prairies,

496
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 3: go ahead.

497
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 4: I actually got to uh uh, you know, like a

498
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 4: Thanksgiving ending type of argument with the relative ones, and

499
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 4: they started screaming for him, it keeps things interesting, right,

500
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 4: and they started they started screaming at me and and yelled,

501
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 4: what do you think, Well, how would you feel if

502
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 4: they burned all the prairies down?

503
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 3: And I just kind of got that that that irritating

504
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 3: smile on my face.

505
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 4: Go ahead, baby, but anyways, make my day, That's right,

506
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 4: Go ahead, make my day. Uh So, the reason anyone

507
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 4: should care about pollinators is, I mean, why should you

508
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 4: care about, you know, feel mice, Why should you care about,

509
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 4: you know, the orangutans in the part of the world

510
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 4: I don't even know where I think they're they're South

511
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 4: American in the apart there, No, yeah, yeah, are the

512
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 4: Southeast Asia? Southeast Asia? Okay, I don't know. I'm not

513
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 4: up on my uh my prime scary as monkeys?

514
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, why should we care about any

515
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: of those things?

516
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 4: And and there's something about life that's just different than

517
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 4: not life?

518
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: Right.

519
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 4: An ecosystem is made up of biotic and abiotic factors

520
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 4: and how they exchange matter and energy between them, right,

521
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 4: But there's something about life that that is just different,

522
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 4: you know. And so you have that level right there.

523
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 4: But that's not going to convince a guy like Tony.

524
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 4: A guy like Tony is going to be more pragmatic

525
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 4: I would.

526
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 3: I would assume.

527
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 4: I've never met Tony, but I've heard him a few

528
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 4: times on on on his different shows. From a human standpoint, someoney,

529
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 4: don't know who it was, that maybe is like the

530
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 4: Center for a Livable Future or something like that. Somebody

531
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 4: calculated that one in three bytes of food depend on

532
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 4: pollination on a on a on a in a human diet,

533
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 4: one in three bytes of food, So that would be

534
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 4: a pretty pragmatic standpoint. From a hunting standpoint, a lot

535
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 4: of the different species of plants that white tails need.

536
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 4: They in order to produce seed, they need pollination to

537
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 4: take place in between the different the different plants, and

538
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 4: and there are a lot of plants that will self pollinate.

539
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,719
Speaker 4: But the problem with that, going back to what we

540
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 4: were talking about genetics earlier, is and then you're just

541
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 4: having clones over and over again, and you're you're allowing

542
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 4: more fragility to enter into that ecosystem so that when

543
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,239
Speaker 4: that disturbance comes, which it always does, right sometimes it's

544
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 4: a you know, a big flooding season, or sometimes it's

545
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 4: a freaking meteorite that hits the planet and wipes out,

546
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 4: you know, half the life. But whatever that disturbance is

547
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 4: going to be, we we survive it by having more

548
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 4: genetic diversity. And so when you think of then to

549
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 4: extrapolate that to a super endangered ecosystem, which would be

550
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 4: the tall grass prairie, the tall grass prairie is just

551
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 4: as endangered as any other ecosystem on the planet, I believe,

552
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 4: or at least is endangered as the rainfor the tropical rainforest.

553
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 4: And and as we talked about the beginning of this conversation,

554
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 4: white tails and prairie, they they go together and now

555
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 4: they are surviving on on, you know, increasingly smaller amounts

556
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 4: of that prairie, and they have so far been able

557
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 4: to roll with the punches.

558
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 3: But things have changed they Iowa.

559
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 4: You know, EHD is such a buzzword, and I'm gonna

560
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 4: get I'm gonna get you some nasty comments here. Someone's

561
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 4: gonna call me a crack. I've ever been called that

562
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 4: once today, so I'm used to it. But uh, the

563
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 4: what we've been seeing with eh this is just me

564
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 4: hypothesizing here. I'm just spitballing. But what we've been seeing

565
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 4: is just a i don't know, an increasing prevalence maybe,

566
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 4: And uh, there's not really a reason for me to

567
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 4: hope that it's gonna, like ever get much better here

568
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 4: in Iowa. I know it hasn't from what I've heard,

569
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 4: It wasn't always here in Iowa. It's something within the

570
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 4: last fifty to one hundred years. I believe that that's

571
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 4: really started to show up here. But we have been

572
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 4: having years and years of drought. Now this last year, thankfully,

573
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 4: we got a break from that, but before that was

574
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,239
Speaker 4: four straight years of drought and what do you know,

575
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 4: two terrible years of EHD in the middle of that,

576
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 4: we've seen our growing zones shift north. You know, there's

577
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 4: there's less rain, more dry days, and and you know,

578
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 4: just these greater impacts that I really think are starting

579
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 4: to impact deer hunting.

580
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 3: And now I'm hopeful.

581
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 4: You know, there was a terrible year of VHD in

582
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 4: twenty twelve in southwest Iowa, and the deer bounced back

583
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 4: for a while, but now here again. You know, it

584
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 4: was basically eleven years later, twenty twenty three we had

585
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 4: a terrible year of VHD again, and then twenty twenty

586
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 4: four another bad year of VHD. And and if we're

587
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 4: getting that every ten years, I mean, and we figure

588
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 4: that a trophy white tail is a deer that is

589
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 4: five and a half years or older, you're only getting

590
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 4: two cycles of deer before the population is totally slammed

591
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 4: again by EHD.

592
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 3: And that's if that's.

593
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 4: What the new normal is going to be. I don't

594
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 4: I don't think that our best days of deer hunting

595
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 4: are ahead of us. And something that what that I

596
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 4: would be interested in is something that's going to be

597
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 4: make the landscape more how would you say it more

598
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 4: useful for holding water? Right, something that's going to make

599
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 4: better use of the water that's here. Well, we know

600
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 4: field tile isn't yeah, right, we know field tile doesn't

601
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 4: help with that that you know, we're we're losing a

602
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 4: lot of our ground water as fast as it can

603
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 4: collect below the surface. And something that does, though is

604
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 4: living tissue, living plant tissue, and and not just above ground,

605
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 4: because we do get that with corn. Corn is a grass.

606
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 4: It's an annual grass, and it holds moisture you know,

607
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 4: above ground until it sinesses and then and then you know,

608
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 4: dyes and crisps up and loses its water. But living

609
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 4: roots are going to store a lot of that water

610
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 4: below below the surface, you know, year round. And and

611
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 4: so you know, just from a standpoint of how do

612
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 4: we make deer hunting better, I think that you know,

613
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 4: again I'm hypothesizing on some of that, but a lot

614
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 4: of that is well known truth that prairies hold more water,

615
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 4: and pollinating species make prairies function and make them last.

616
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 4: And then you know, you have the whole nutrition side

617
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 4: of it, whether that be for humans or for wildlife,

618
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 4: including the animals that we love to chase deer, turkeys, pheasants,

619
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:41,280
Speaker 4: whatever else.

620
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you make a really good point, which is that

621
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: this isn't something that I had thought ahead of this,

622
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: but it's it's it's actually one of the strongest cases

623
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 2: I think for deer hunters to think about adding more

624
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 2: of this kind of grassland prairie habitat. It's the fact

625
00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: that you know, for so many folks, traditional deer land

626
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 2: management has meant food plots, food plots, food plots, food plots,

627
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 2: a lot of annual food plots, yeah, a lot of monoculture,

628
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: single species food plots, right, a lot of you know,

629
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 2: big buck on a bag kind of stuff. And in

630
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 2: a new normal in which extreme drought, frequent drought is

631
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 2: just kind of becoming what we have now, it seems

632
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 2: like every year or very frequently those kinds of management practices,

633
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: annual food plots, monoculture food plots, those become really risky

634
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 2: if your whole deer.

635
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 3: Hunting plan depends on that.

636
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people last year saw that

637
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: a lot of folks thought they were going to put

638
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: in a late season food plot, They're going to plant

639
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 2: something in August early September, and there was no rain none.

640
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 2: I've never had a worst food plot year in twenty

641
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: years than last year, and the year before that I

642
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 2: thought was the worst in the year or two or

643
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: before that, you know, I thought that was the worst.

644
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 2: And so becoming more and more and more, you're hearing

645
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 2: stories like this where unless you're incredibly rich and you

646
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 2: can go out there and irrigate your food plots, somehow,

647
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: it's it's not something you can depend on as much

648
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 2: as you used to a perennial grassland ecosystem. Though to

649
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: your point, that's something you can hang your head on

650
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 2: and that's more resilient, maybe more I mean it sounds

651
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: obviously more drought resistant, tolerant.

652
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 3: It's the kind of thing that.

653
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,919
Speaker 2: Can provide wildlife habitat that does not require you going

654
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 2: in there and replanting every year and you know, possibly

655
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 2: sucking up more of the moisture with traditional tillage or

656
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 2: things like that. So, yeah, that's a really interesting point

657
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: that makes a lot of sense. Nicholas, Is there anything

658
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 2: you would add on the pollinator things specifically before I

659
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: kind of take a pivot.

660
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: Just two fragile arguments that Judd McCollum. If you know

661
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 3: that that guy's awesome and lives out in Illinois, and

662
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 3: he said that he was reading a paper like an

663
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 3: officially posted paper that argued that it was like sixty

664
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 3: percent of the water intake of deer in the dead

665
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 3: of summer if they have the choice is from forbes,

666
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 3: from native forbes. Now you know Native forbes are thriving

667
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 3: in June, July into August, you know, and they're not

668
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 3: most of them aren't drying out yet. They're they're really

669
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 3: they're they are holding a lot of moisture. And so

670
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 3: I could see that argument being true. I've never read

671
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 3: the paper myself. Is true.

672
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 4: It is true that it's known that deer get the

673
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 4: majority of their moisture from from their diet, and not

674
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 4: not just from I mean they do go and drink

675
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 4: from a creek or drink from a pond or whatever,

676
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 4: but but they do get during the growing season for plants, well,

677
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 4: then get the majority of their water that way.

678
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 3: And the argument jud was making to me was that

679
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 3: if that is what they are choosing, that probably is

680
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 3: their instinct realizing what has more nutrition in it. So

681
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: if you're a trophy hunter, then more nutrition means bigger bucks,

682
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: healthier herd. And so I would add that in there,

683
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 3: that the nutritional value adds in the middle that you

684
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 3: just can't get without you don't have them without pollinators specifically, actually,

685
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 3: like Ohio spider war and some of the ones that

686
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 3: hold a lot more water these are or fox club

687
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 3: pen smont these are actually ones that only get pollinated

688
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 3: by native pollinators. So yeah, interesting. So one last kind of.

689
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's not necessarily philosophical, but another one

690
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: of these, I guess, just like why questions Within the

691
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 2: habitat world, there are some folks who are they might

692
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 2: call them pragmatists, and they'll say, well, if a plant

693
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: does a job, I'm okay with it, whether it's native

694
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 2: or non native. And there's other folks we might call

695
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: them purists, who would say, well, known natives because natives

696
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 2: are supposed to be here. Non natives aren't supposed to

697
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: be here. And then they have their reasons. Could one

698
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: of you give me a take on why you guys

699
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 2: believe that natives are more beneficial to having the landscape

700
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 2: worth managing for, worth planting, worth you know, trying to

701
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: get rid of those invasives and promote the growth of natives.

702
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: There's some folks that this is, yeah, just something they're

703
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: not willing to dive into. So I'm curious if one

704
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 2: of you guys would be willing to give me a

705
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: perspective on that before we kind of get into the

706
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 2: how to.

707
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, Kent will have more after this, but I

708
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 3: two things that I tend to share with people is

709
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 3: that we were We've been promised about twenty times over

710
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 3: the past eight decades that this brought in ornamental species

711
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 3: will not be invasive, and we were wrong every single

712
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 3: one of those, even when like no, don't worry the

713
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 3: seed's sterile or there's no seed on this one. You

714
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 3: do not have to worry about this. And so I

715
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 3: would love to say, like, you know, mis kitt is

716
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 3: really popular, and I would love to say that they're right,

717
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 3: because I see how much of it goes in. I

718
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 3: would love to think, well, that's never going anywhere. But

719
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 3: the same thing was said about the pompous grass, and

720
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 3: you don't you know, when I'm in the back, would

721
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 3: somewhere plant for someone crp field. You have no idea

722
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,320
Speaker 3: how many times that just lines the ditches all the

723
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 3: way for like miles. So I'd love to I'd love

724
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 3: to say that's true. It just hasn't been the case yet,

725
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 3: and it is not something I'm willing to put my

726
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 3: faith in Up to this point, plants are unbelievably resilient.

727
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 3: They have lasted this long through evolution because they are

728
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 3: so resilient, they're gonna figure it out. They figure it out.

729
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 3: And then the other argument I would add is the

730
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 3: the Djenga tower sometimes and this is actually why a

731
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 3: pheasant is the hawks and native seeds logo. Pheasants are

732
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 3: not native, but they reprien. We've changed the landscape. We've

733
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 3: brought in something that's not native and it made a

734
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 3: good home. So it kind of recognizes for us we're

735
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 3: never going back one hundred percent to what was, but

736
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: it needs to make sense, and it needs to be balanced,

737
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 3: and it needs to be a healthy ecosystem, and pheasants.

738
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 3: When we have healthy ecosystems that could like support bison

739
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,959
Speaker 3: which used to be here. Turns out that's actually pretty

740
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 3: good for pheasants as well. So that's why we use

741
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 3: pheasants at one of the two major reasons we use

742
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 3: pheasants for our logo. But when going back to this

743
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 3: Jenga tower, sometimes bringing in something like an invasive version

744
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 3: of Reed's canary or brome, it's like putting a big

745
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 3: weight on the top of that Jenga tower. And what

746
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 3: I mean by that is the tower can't support it

747
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 3: and has no checks and balances for this species. So

748
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 3: this species, it starts as a little block, and then

749
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 3: it gets heavier and heavier and heavier, and all of

750
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 3: a sudden, it's a forty five pound dumbbell sitting on

751
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 3: the Jenga tower. Jenga tower is hardly holding it together.

752
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,720
Speaker 3: And in a lot of places for acres and acres

753
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 3: and acres and acres, it is. It doesn't It doesn't

754
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 3: fit at all. And now I mean I would challenge

755
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 3: anybody to go to a brome field versus a native

756
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 3: a native prairie planting, even a bad native praier planting,

757
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 3: and tell me the difference and diversity of flora and

758
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 3: fauna and to be astounding.

759
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 4: So those are my first two. But I know Kent's

760
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 4: got stronger, strong field. Just play yeah, just playing off

761
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 4: what Nicholas said there. I can't imagine there being a

762
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 4: single listener right now who if you said, you can

763
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 4: snap your fingers and all of that reed canary monoculture,

764
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 4: all of that smooth brome monoculture, all of the you know,

765
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 4: bush honeysuckle autumn, all of buckthorn monoculture that we have

766
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 4: in Whitetail, USA. If you could snap your fingers and

767
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 4: restore it to it's its native diverse status. Who would

768
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 4: say no? You know, we would? I mean, just imagine

769
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 4: the difference what that would mean for for how many

770
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 4: deer could be. The caring capacity for deer in Whitetail

771
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 4: USA would would jump, you know, significantly. And and so

772
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 4: I think right there illustrates, you know, a good answer

773
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 4: to to or a good example to play out what

774
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:20,240
Speaker 4: Nicholas is talking about there and and you know the

775
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 4: actually heard you ask Kyle Lei Barker, another mutual friend

776
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 4: of ours about this.

777
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 3: Oh, must have been two or.

778
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 4: Three years ago, and he had he had a really

779
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 4: good answer because some of those things they really don't

780
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 4: spread too bad, you know, Misscanthus, you know it as

781
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 4: long as you are willing to be actively managing it.

782
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 4: I don't think you do have to fear a ton

783
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 4: of it, you know, escaping very far right. It's it

784
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 4: spreads right on a rhizome. But if you're you know,

785
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 4: if you're cutting it back or you know, maybe going

786
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 4: in there with an excavator. Every now and then and

787
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 4: ripping it up a little bit. You might you can

788
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 4: keep it at bay, but the second you're out of

789
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 4: the picture and someone who cares about it less than

790
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 4: you and is less attentive to to the chores that

791
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 4: keep aware you wanted it as you're screen to your

792
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 4: stand or whatever, it's going to stay on the land.

793
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 4: And Kyle made the point of, you know, if fifty

794
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 4: years from now we see all these these properties that

795
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 4: used to be owned by avid deer hunters and they're

796
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 4: all loaded with giant muscanthos or Egyptian wheat or whatever

797
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 4: else frag mighties. And somebody goes, Grandpa, what what's with

798
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 4: all the giant muscanthos over there? And he says, oh,

799
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 4: deer hunters used to be really into that. Man, what

800
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 4: a you know, what a bad mark on our resume

801
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 4: as people who claim to care about the land to

802
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 4: you know, be strapping a future generation with with another

803
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 4: ecological problem.

804
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so much.

805
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 2: It comes down to, you know, so much that it

806
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 2: comes down to the work that goes into managing it. Right,

807
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: Like you mentioned earlier, how if you could snap your

808
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 2: fingers and all the invasive non native automotive and honeysuckle

809
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: and cedar trees or whatever might be. If we'd snap

810
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 2: our fingers and all that was gone, who wouldn't take that? Yeah, everywhere?

811
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 3: Take it.

812
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: The problem is to actually do the work to get

813
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 2: rid of that stuff. It's a lot of work, it's

814
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 2: a lot of time, it's a lot of energy. And

815
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 2: some people are like the cost benefit analysis for them,

816
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 2: they're not seeing it. Yeah, but to your point, I

817
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 2: would say that the cost or the benefits far outway

818
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 2: the costs. But there's people who are constantly saying, well

819
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 2: is it worth it? Is it not worth it?

820
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 3: And I can't remember where I where I picked this up.

821
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 2: But one of the things that also drove this home

822
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 2: for me, you know, you know, the jeng analogy again

823
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 2: works really really well.

824
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 3: But then there's also this, there's.

825
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 2: There's all these different specialist connections, like an ecosystem is

826
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 2: like all of these different threads, all interwoven and all

827
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: connected from this piece to that piece and all the other.

828
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,240
Speaker 3: And when species co.

829
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: Evolve, they very often develop unique relationships from plant to

830
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: bug or bug to bird, or bird to plant, and

831
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: very oftentimes those are unique, special important connections that you know,

832
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 2: like puzzle pieces fit perfectly together. Now, if you bring

833
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 2: it in a non native species, maybe it fills the

834
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 2: blank spot in the dirt and it can grow.

835
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 3: They're just fine. But this puzzle piece now does not

836
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 3: match up with that.

837
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 2: Native bird that lived there, or that native bug that

838
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 2: lived there, it's not going to that connection won't work anymore.

839
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 2: And so if you disconnect all the threads of this tapestry,

840
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 2: you know, again kind of like pulling out pieces of

841
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 2: the Jenga. If you were to snip all these different

842
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: threads across the tapestry, which are these specialized connections between

843
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 2: native of co evolving species, all of a sudden that

844
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: tapestry falls apart, and you have relationships that aren't working anymore.

845
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: You have processes that aren't working anymore. And so again

846
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 2: it's you know, all these things are connected, All these

847
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 2: things do matter, but it does take time, it does

848
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 2: take energy, it does take work.

849
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 3: And that's what I want to talk about next, is

850
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 3: the work.

851
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: If people want to put some of this on the ground,

852
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 2: if people want to have some native prairie strips, or

853
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 2: if people want to take what was an old field

854
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 2: and convert it to a native grassland, or if somebody

855
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 2: was planting some annual food plots, and they've gotten sick

856
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 2: of the fact that drought makes it a waste of

857
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 2: time every other year every three years, and instead they

858
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 2: want to put in a perennial kind of cover slash

859
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: food mix or something like that. They've gotten to the

860
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 2: point where they want to try something different, or they

861
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 2: at least want to add some diversity to their other

862
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 2: food plot stuff. If that's the bolt they're in here today.

863
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: What I would love for you guys to do is

864
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 2: walk me through the process of how to do that

865
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: for a small landowner, but not the actual process of

866
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: like do this, do this, do this, because anyone can

867
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: go online and get the base of constructions for how

868
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: to plant a native prairie strip or something like that.

869
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 2: What I would like you to do is is walk

870
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 2: through the common mistakes or what people miss with the

871
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 2: conventional wisdom. Typically for someone who's trying to plan an

872
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 2: acre prairie, trying to put in two acre strips or

873
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 2: something like that for the first time, what does the

874
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 2: conventional wisdom or the typical one two three steps, what

875
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:43,920
Speaker 2: are they missing that? Where do most people make a

876
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 2: mistake or hit a rodblock or bump their head up

877
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 2: against the wall and fail, or think they've failed and

878
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 2: don't want to do this anymore, or say this prairie sucks.

879
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 2: I'm never gonna I'm never gonna try this again. I'm

880
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:59,240
Speaker 2: converting it back to Brassica's or whatever it is. Could

881
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 2: could you know, Kent, Maybe I'll let you start here

882
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 2: if you want, with a few of the things that

883
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 2: you you know, have have heard about over the years

884
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 2: or have seen yourself, that are a few of those

885
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 2: common stumbling blocks. So maybe you can briefly kind of

886
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 2: address with some of those steps that somebody has to take.

887
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 2: But I'm most interested in, you know what most people

888
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: don't think about.

889
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 3: What is What is that?

890
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a really important question. You could basically break

891
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 4: it up into this prep plant, maintain all those all

892
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 4: those that have to go into it, right, But the

893
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,879
Speaker 4: prep part is just so important. The other the other two,

894
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 4: of course, they have their own little nuances which we'll

895
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 4: talk about, but but the the prep phase is one

896
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 4: that and honestly, our founder, Carrol, who's been growing prairie

897
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 4: for forty years before he passed away this last July,

898
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 4: he he would talk about this all the time. You

899
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 4: need to get a double kill before you uh plant,

900
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 4: and a lot of you know, historically people thought, oh,

901
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 4: I got this spot in my yard, I'll just spray

902
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 4: it down and then I'll plant, and then they'd have

903
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 4: all this you know, non native seed bank come roaring

904
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 4: back now that the Kentucky bluegrass is out of the

905
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 4: way and isn't shading the ground and using the resources

906
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 4: and so getting getting a proper kill in uh double

907
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 4: kill is the easy way to say that. But I'd

908
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 4: also encourage people to think of it from a standpoint

909
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 4: of cool season versus warm season kills. And so this

910
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 4: is where guys who love food plotting are going to

911
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 4: like me. Uh it's it's the best case scenario in

912
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 4: my opinion, for planting a prairie. Planting a reconstructed prairie,

913
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 4: it's different if you're maintaining a you know, ground that

914
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 4: might have a remnant seed bank. And I'll just say

915
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 4: this right away. If you have a farm that's mostly

916
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 4: old pasture, it's very hilly, you know, almost impossible to

917
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 4: have been farmed. There's a chance that it never was

918
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 4: was significantly tilled. You know, most most ground, most prairies

919
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 4: could handle one you know, maybe one hard plow up

920
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 4: that that may have happened in their history. But usually

921
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 4: what would have happened on that on those kinds of acres,

922
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 4: somebody tried farming it and now, oh, good grief, you know,

923
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 4: the the erosion, the you know, the horse could about

924
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 4: killed the horse trying to drag a plow up that

925
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 4: hill or trying to harvest it was a nightmare or whatever.

926
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 3: It flooded.

927
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 4: If it's if it's had a history of being old pasture,

928
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 4: there's probably a lot of remnant prairie plants already there

929
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 4: that you aren't seeing there getting you know, shaded out,

930
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 4: or just a seed bank that's still there. And so

931
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 4: that's a little bit different situation. But if you're in

932
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 4: a place like Iowa, or southern Michigan, or southern Wisconsin,

933
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 4: southern Minnesota, you know, Illinois, much of the much of

934
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 4: the heart of whitetail country, right if you're in one

935
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 4: of those areas, then it probably has been cropped for

936
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 4: years and that and those areas they're the easiest to

937
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 4: do a prairie into because they've been planted with round

938
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 4: up ready corn and soybeans for years and they've been

939
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 4: the you know the weeds.

940
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 3: Have been taken care of.

941
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 4: So if you can plant into soybean ground, that's your

942
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,879
Speaker 4: usually your best right nice smooth soil, and you've had

943
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 4: both those cool season and warm season sprayings that have

944
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 4: been taking place. Well, if you don't have that and

945
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 4: you you need to simulate it, then it might not

946
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 4: be a bad idea to grow some round up ready

947
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 4: corn and soybeans on the area that you're envisioning being

948
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 4: your prairie a few years later, because then you're going

949
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 4: to still get something out of those out of those

950
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 4: acres that's going to be useful to you as a hunter,

951
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 4: and you're also going to be setting back the all

952
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 4: the non native weeds and other pressures that you need

953
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 4: to be out of the way for you to plant.

954
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 4: And so that's what I would recommend from a hunting standpoint,

955
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 4: just for the prep side of it. Then from a

956
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 4: planting standpoint, the other main problem that a lot of

957
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 4: people had historically, and thankfully the NRCS has come in

958
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:14,959
Speaker 4: and they've you know, they give their planting recommendations to people,

959
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 4: and they they uh give a planting seed depth recommendation

960
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 4: I believe on the NRCS website it says a quarter

961
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 4: of an inch or or more shallow than that. So

962
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 4: a maximum depth of a quarter of an inch. The

963
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 4: vast majority of prairie species they certainly cannot handle more

964
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 4: than that. They won't. They just simply won't. Germany, they'll

965
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 4: stay dormant in the soil column. And so you need

966
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 4: to you need to have a seeding method that seeds

967
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 4: right at the surface or just scratches the surface and

968
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,840
Speaker 4: just gets more so incorporated with the surface. And so,

969
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 4: you know, a lot of people, you know, they get

970
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 4: the cart before the horse, right, and they get excited.

971
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:01,919
Speaker 4: They don't they don't know about the prairie stuff yet.

972
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 4: But man, they saw a drill on a good deal

973
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,240
Speaker 4: at a trade show, and and they uh want that drill.

974
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 3: And they know how to spend money.

975
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 4: They don't know how to plan a prairie yet, and

976
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 4: they go and they buy the drill and then let it,

977
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 4: you know, resolve itself later, and then they start planning

978
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 4: too deep and then their prairie just never comes up.

979
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 6: Well.

980
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 4: So start by getting the you know, start by getting

981
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,240
Speaker 4: your knowledge on what you're going to be planting.

982
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 3: It's going to be prairie. It's got to be really

983
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 3: we use.

984
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,319
Speaker 4: The rule of an eighth of an inch or at

985
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 4: max depth and and so plant real shallow like that.

986
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 4: And you know there's a seating rate if you're if

987
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 4: you're buying from a reputable seed dealer, they're gonna give

988
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 4: you seed tags that provide a an appropriate seating rate.

989
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 4: In Iowa, the Sea Peace standard is forty seeds per

990
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 4: square foot. Illinois is twenty seeds per square foot. So general,

991
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,799
Speaker 4: the general rule is, I mean, there there is a maximum,

992
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 4: but you don't want to go too heavy. But you know,

993
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 4: if you can be you know, forty to what did

994
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:19,720
Speaker 4: justin Myizin say, Nicholas, did he give you a number

995
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 4: like if he had his perfect world? This guy's like,

996
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 4: like the prairie you.

997
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 3: Know, researcher, he's the covercy of Northern Iowa Tallgrass Prarie Center.

998
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 3: But he said, was it eighty? If you could get eighty?

999
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:36,320
Speaker 3: He gave the classic scientific answer. He's like, well, it depends, yeah,

1000
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,359
Speaker 3: but you know it depends on the species. But if

1001
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:43,760
Speaker 3: if I'm recommending something for someone's yard, a big field

1002
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 3: is different because you've got it's just easier, but it's

1003
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:51,919
Speaker 3: someone's yard, we do sixty. Yeah, I mean an acre

1004
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 3: or less. Yeah, right, Yeah, there's.

1005
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 4: A lot of things those seeds have to survive to

1006
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 4: make it to germination. And then I would add on

1007
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 4: to that with planting. If you can do a dormant

1008
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 4: season planting a lot of the flowers, a lot of

1009
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 4: the forbes. The things that we're most excited to see,

1010
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 4: whether we're a deer hunter or a little old lady

1011
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,239
Speaker 4: birdwatcher are the flowers. And a lot of those flowers

1012
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 4: they need a period of cold stratification so to break

1013
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 4: their dormancy in the next or in some cases next

1014
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 4: to growing seasons. But most flowers need at least ten

1015
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 4: days of cold stratification, many of which need thirty or

1016
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 4: even sixty days of cold stratification. So if you can

1017
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 4: plant at our latitude here in south central Iowa, you

1018
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 4: know that November timeframe is about perfect. That's when justin Maizen,

1019
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 4: the guy we were just talking about, that's his ideal month.

1020
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,879
Speaker 4: Get it on the ground then and let it over

1021
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:54,320
Speaker 4: winter and then comes. Of course, the maintenance and maintenance

1022
00:56:55,320 --> 00:57:01,239
Speaker 4: is largely done through mowing. But you can't you know,

1023
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 4: if this goes for people who just apply chemicals to

1024
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 4: do all their maintenance, right, whether they're their spot spraying

1025
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 4: or they're you know, doing a big broadcast you know

1026
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 4: with a you know, giant spray or something. A big

1027
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 4: part of of herbicide usage is scouting beforehand, right, you

1028
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 4: need to go out there and see what weed problems

1029
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 4: do I have? And and I think when people do that,

1030
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 4: then then comes the real hard part. You might have

1031
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 4: to get out of shovel, You might have to get

1032
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 4: out of garden hoe. You might have to get out

1033
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 4: a rake. You might have to get out a little

1034
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 4: pump jug of of round up or something and go

1035
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 4: and hit hit that targeted problem. You know, the classic

1036
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 4: is UH Canada thistle right, and you know you might

1037
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 4: have to get a little pump jug of some dric

1038
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 4: ore and go out there and or some milestone or

1039
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 4: something and and and hammer that. But you got to

1040
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 4: stay on top of it with the maintenance. Otherwise, you know,

1041
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 4: some of those other problems that choke out a prayer

1042
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 4: or you can can begin to U invade. Wow.

1043
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 2: Would you add anything to that, Nicholas, I would just

1044
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 2: add that we should habituate our minds to burning prairies.

1045
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 3: And you know there's also I forget you know, there's

1046
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 3: the twenty acre like or people have twenty acres of

1047
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 3: timber right next to it. It doesn't mean your prairie

1048
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 3: doesn't need to be burned. And there used to be

1049
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 3: a recommendation of disking, like do like a four or

1050
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 3: five year diit. Do not do that. It is not

1051
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 3: good for your prairie. I don't know who. Every time

1052
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 3: I ask at the state level, they're like, yeah, we

1053
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 3: don't really know who recommend I think someone knows, they're

1054
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 3: just not willing to out everyone.

1055
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1056
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 3: But and then the other thing I would say is

1057
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 3: if you're doing a yard specifically and you've got turf grass,

1058
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 3: turn that two springs into three springs. You really need

1059
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 3: three springs. And the reason is you need two cool

1060
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:58,280
Speaker 3: season springs and you need a warm season spring because

1061
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 3: all this crab grass and other stuff that's being choked

1062
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 3: out by your Kentucky bluegrass, it will come in. And

1063
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 3: that stuff is particularly harmful for prairie or pollinator patches

1064
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, because it it thatches and it

1065
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 3: grows out and it does a really good job shading

1066
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 3: and choking. Right, if you have a little bit of

1067
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 3: foxtail or some that's whatever that's not going to outlast

1068
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 3: the prairie with good maintenance. But that crab grass or

1069
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 3: the other things that crawl along the ground that create

1070
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 3: that cover, that will cause an issue. And there are

1071
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 3: some non chemical ways too to prep the ground. You know,

1072
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:29,919
Speaker 3: you can.

1073
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 4: I have a nice prairie in my yard. I mean,

1074
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 4: it still needs some maintenance. But I cleared about a

1075
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 4: five thousand square foot area with just giant silage tarps.

1076
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,919
Speaker 4: I just you know, staked them down through a bunch

1077
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 4: of palettes on them and t posts and things like

1078
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 4: that to weigh them down through the you know, winds

1079
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 4: of Europe whipping across Iowa. And after enough weeks of that,

1080
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 4: you know, it turned it into dirt and I got

1081
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 4: you know, of course, multiple killings like Nick.

1082
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 3: Was talked about.

1083
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 4: But but I know a lot of people are sensitive

1084
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:05,040
Speaker 4: to they don't want to use pesticides. I don't blame them.

1085
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 4: I hate that's that's that is the one part of

1086
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 4: my job I like the least is when I have

1087
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 4: to get out the pesticides. But it's you know, there

1088
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 4: are other options out there.

1089
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 2: Were you going to add anything else, Nicholas, I feel

1090
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 2: like you were. You were kind of on another thing there, No.

1091
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 3: No, those those were the two was was mentally prepare

1092
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 3: yourself for fire and then uh, the three sprands on

1093
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 3: the yard. Yeah, those those are ones that cause headaches

1094
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 3: for people that I get a lot of phone calls about.

1095
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 2: Okay, So one thing that deer hunters do know and

1096
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 2: are excited about talking about, uh, that will be relevant

1097
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 2: to this conversation is actually picking seeds. That's one thing

1098
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 2: I always love to talk about. It is like, give

1099
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 2: me the right food plot seed, what bag should I buy?

1100
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 2: What mixed should I buy? Et cetera. And you guys

1101
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 2: have this very interesting set of products that you guys sell.

1102
01:00:56,240 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 2: You have a white tail mix habitat mix, and then

1103
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 2: you have a perennial food plot mix.

1104
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 3: But it's using like native.

1105
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 2: Forb species, flower species, some grass species, and some of those.

1106
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 2: It's a very interesting alternative to planting traditional food plots

1107
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 2: like we would usually think about. And I would love

1108
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 2: to understand, Nicholas, how you guys go about picking out

1109
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 2: what the right mix is for something like that, Like

1110
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 2: what does your u you know, what does your white

1111
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,760
Speaker 2: tail habitat mix achieve? What's what's the goal you're trying

1112
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 2: to achieve there. How do you do that in this

1113
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,959
Speaker 2: kind of unique way? And I'd love to know about

1114
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 2: you know, as much as you're willing to talk about

1115
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 2: your specific product, because I think that's great. But I

1116
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 2: do know that it's only you know, native and appropriate

1117
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 2: for certain states, right Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Missouri, Illinois,

1118
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 2: South Dakota.

1119
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 3: I think right, But I want to make sure that

1120
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 3: we can.

1121
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 2: I want to make sure that for people that live

1122
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 2: somewhere else, how do they go about using a similar

1123
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 2: framework to create the right for themselves. So I'm curious

1124
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 2: about the answers to those questions for the white tail

1125
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 2: habitat mix, but then also the perennial food plot mix.

1126
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 2: So kind of a two part question.

1127
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 4: There, I fix getting all excited right now, he is, man,

1128
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 4: I'm yeah, Man.

1129
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 3: You don't know how many hundreds or thousands of hours

1130
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 3: I spend on the phone on these kinds of conversations.

1131
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 3: But so I came up with the idea of the

1132
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 3: perennial food plot because I believe it was a gentleman

1133
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 3: named Steve I was talking to was basically talking about

1134
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 3: how much like the deer seemed to just come in

1135
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,560
Speaker 3: and nibble all these different species and his pollinator mix.

1136
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 3: And I was like, you know what, I bet I

1137
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 3: didn't know anything about deer. Didn't know. I just know

1138
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 3: that sometimes they hate your car. And that's what I

1139
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 3: knew about deer. I knew that Iowa was a good

1140
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 3: place to hunt, you know, I didn't know anything. I

1141
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 3: was like twenty two years old, and I was like, well,

1142
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 3: you know, I bet if we threw I threw a

1143
01:02:56,360 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 3: mix in together like this and and so that's why

1144
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:01,800
Speaker 3: I originally posted a mix for the Premia food plot

1145
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:05,720
Speaker 3: on the website. And then honestly through the podcast have

1146
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 3: learned and I just selfishly ask people. You know, I've

1147
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 3: talked to skips Li about it. Hey, what do you

1148
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 3: see browsing? Jud McCollum, who I mentioned earlier, he's got

1149
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 3: large acres of prarier? Hey, what do you see them

1150
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 3: the great or browsing on? What are they? What are

1151
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 3: they picking out there? Doctor Mark Turner? Uh, you know,

1152
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 3: people that just know what they're talking about and have

1153
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time on the landscape. And then

1154
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 3: there's just general biology and speculation of you know, I

1155
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 3: know that this plant the seeds are very large. Uh,

1156
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 3: in general, you can kind of break forbes into two

1157
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 3: groups of quality versus quantity. Usually the things later in

1158
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:48,040
Speaker 3: the in the fall when they bloom, those are quantity species.

1159
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 3: And the reason you can tell is because they have

1160
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 3: millions of seeds and a pound, but they're a lot smaller,

1161
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 3: and their success rate, even if their germination tests high,

1162
01:03:55,200 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 3: their success rate is lower. Versus legomes are almost always

1163
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 3: a much higher quality. But what does that mean. That

1164
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 3: means there's fewer seeds in there. That means the seeds

1165
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 3: have to be higher quality. That means they probably have

1166
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 3: more protein, They've got more nutrients in there, and so

1167
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 3: you start breaking that down. And then plus what other

1168
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 3: people are saying, they're seeing the deer Grayson and that

1169
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 3: was kind of my original. And then just I've probably

1170
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 3: asked a hundred times, what do you see your deer

1171
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:23,640
Speaker 3: bed in? You know? And then that's what I did

1172
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 3: for the habitat. I just threw those species in there,

1173
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 3: and then I added some other species that I know

1174
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 3: intermingle with those specific flora, and I put those out

1175
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 3: and we've seen great success. And the truth is marked,

1176
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 3: like our mixes have like eighty or ninety percent overlap,

1177
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 3: like most of the species, I would saying it's just

1178
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,960
Speaker 3: general prairie, and then there are some more expensive things

1179
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 3: that deer like round headed bush clover. It's a little expensive,

1180
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 3: but deer like it, so we'll throw it in there.

1181
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 3: It's another one of those legomes. But there's a lot

1182
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 3: of there's a lot of overlap on a lot of

1183
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 3: our mixes. So we have a friend named Caleb Key

1184
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 3: plants in town. He planted a little a faker prairie

1185
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 3: and two years in a row he saw a buck

1186
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 3: out there.

1187
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:10,600
Speaker 4: Ye urban prairie mark he's had uh uh, you know,

1188
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 4: at least a three and a half year old buck

1189
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 4: tending a dough in his his little thousand square foot

1190
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 4: prairie in his yard.

1191
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 3: And that was just like a show we mix. That

1192
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 3: was one that was supposed to have really pretty flowers,

1193
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 3: you know. But it's like there's so much overlap that

1194
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 3: in general, if you plant what is native and you

1195
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:32,080
Speaker 3: get a lot of diversity, the white tail will show up. Now,

1196
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:34,880
Speaker 3: you're right. The mixes we have on our website are

1197
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 3: basically Iowa and states touching Iowa. Uh, But we get

1198
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 3: a lot of calls from elsewhere. I was just chatting

1199
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:43,400
Speaker 3: with the guy from Georgia here a couple of weeks ago,

1200
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:48,640
Speaker 3: and usually I have a general feel for what species

1201
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 3: are good out there, and I will take your call

1202
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 3: and I will handle all of it. But I'm gonna

1203
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 3: tell everyone listening right now, I'm going to call a

1204
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 3: seed provider in your area, and I'm gonna middle man

1205
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 3: it through them. So well, if you've got a really

1206
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 3: strong regional seed provider, call them and just ask for

1207
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,919
Speaker 3: a pollinator mix, or ask for a tall grass mix.

1208
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 3: If you're in that area and you have the privilege

1209
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 3: of having tall grass prairie to be habitat. Now, I

1210
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 3: know you get further west, the tall grass isn't really

1211
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 3: a thing as much out there, and so you're looking

1212
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 3: for different habitat right, But if you are eastern Nebraska,

1213
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 3: South Dakota, or further east, you're looking at being able

1214
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 3: to have a mix to tall grass prairie. And the

1215
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 3: more forbes you have out there, they're more there is

1216
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 3: for them to eat. Now, keep this in mind. You

1217
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:34,120
Speaker 3: put a bunch of big blue and switch grass and

1218
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,680
Speaker 3: Indian grass in there, which people do for the habitat side.

1219
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 3: There are forbes that can handle that competition. But it's

1220
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 3: not the majority of them, right. Some of those include

1221
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 3: the prairie clovers, wild Bergamont, black eyed Susan could grow

1222
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 3: out of a rock. Several of the asters can handle

1223
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 3: that kind of competition. But if someone says, hey, it's

1224
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 3: mostly big blue stem indian and switchgrass, and then I've

1225
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 3: got a list of these sixty other Forbes, save your money.

1226
01:06:58,320 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 3: You know what you want to do is if you

1227
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 3: want a lot of those Forbes have a little bit

1228
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 3: of Indian grass, big blue stem switch grass, and then

1229
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 3: mostly little blue stem blue grama, depending where you're at,

1230
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 3: prairie drop seed, rough drop seed, some of these shorter

1231
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 3: grass that allow the Forbes to come in and flourish

1232
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 3: and compete, and then you'll have your white tail out

1233
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 3: there what jud calls a full plate. He says, they've

1234
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 3: got something almost all year round that they can go

1235
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 3: and you're basically habitually training them to be in that

1236
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 3: field or to travel there and browse through there every

1237
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 3: single day. So those are what is going through in mind.

1238
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 3: But I want to be clear, there's no there's not

1239
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:34,080
Speaker 3: a lot of papers of like these are the exact

1240
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 3: Forbes that you know whitetail eat during this time, there's

1241
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 3: a little bit of literature, and then it's mostly just

1242
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 3: who's been on the ground for years and years and

1243
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:42,919
Speaker 3: who's been watching the deer.

1244
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 2: So am I right that the white tail habitat mix

1245
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 2: that you guys have is heavy on the tall grass,

1246
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:54,440
Speaker 2: the big blue stem what you mentioned there, lower zac orbs,

1247
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 2: and then your food plot mix still has you know,

1248
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 2: it's the alternative, which is the heavier four because we're

1249
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 2: really trying to king on the food there, but then

1250
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 2: also still some of the prairie, some of the grass,

1251
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 2: some of the flowers as well.

1252
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, that is exactly right. And one more thing

1253
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 3: I would add. If you put big blue stem in

1254
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 3: a mix and you're not willing to do random burns

1255
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 3: or have something grays on it, and if you have

1256
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 3: enough of it in eight years, it'll all be big

1257
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 3: blue stem. But even if you only have a little

1258
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:26,200
Speaker 3: bit in thirty years, it'll all be big blue stem.

1259
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 3: Big blue stem had one competitor, well maybe two if

1260
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 3: you count elk, but really one competitor throughout the evolution

1261
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 3: of the Midwest, and that was bison. It doesn't exist anymore.

1262
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,120
Speaker 3: Cows love it, But do you really want your cows

1263
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 3: crazing in that area, you know, And so that's why

1264
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 3: in our perennial foodbot there's just no big blue stem.

1265
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 3: There's I think there's no big blue stem or switch grass.

1266
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:46,759
Speaker 3: Indian grass is okay some of that, but yeah, that's

1267
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 3: heard to stay first, should no longer exist? Nick Is said,

1268
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 3: they're all well? Are they like? They're all right?

1269
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:58,679
Speaker 4: Is there a group of people that say Canada doesn't

1270
01:08:58,680 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 4: exist too or something?

1271
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,639
Speaker 3: I don't know. There's people who say the earth is flat, brother,

1272
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:04,639
Speaker 3: I know that you've been going to those meetings.

1273
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:09,800
Speaker 2: People will say just about anything these days, gentlemen. I

1274
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,000
Speaker 2: love this idea though. I love the idea of this,

1275
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:14,759
Speaker 2: uh And it's a growing thing like this, this messy

1276
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 2: field approach to wildlife habitat where we used to love

1277
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 2: our And this is not just for wildlife. This is

1278
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 2: farming right, like used to be clean field farming right.

1279
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:25,640
Speaker 2: And now I think people are getting certain groups are

1280
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:27,280
Speaker 2: getting okay with a messy field. And I think the

1281
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 2: same thing's happening within the hunting management side of things.

1282
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:35,959
Speaker 2: And there's definitely been more and more interest in diverse blends,

1283
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:38,799
Speaker 2: more and more folks talking about managing their soil carefully,

1284
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:42,920
Speaker 2: no till, et cetera, et cetera. But now I love

1285
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 2: this idea of now taking the next big step, which

1286
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 2: is like let's add in a little bit of grass,

1287
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,639
Speaker 2: let's add in some flours, some native forms, let's get

1288
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 2: really let's get really crunchy with it, and and be

1289
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 2: like supernatural. It doesn't have to be everywhere like this.

1290
01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 2: You'll have to replace all of your traditional food plots

1291
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 2: with something like this. But I love the idea of

1292
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 2: this supplementing, this adding diversity because you could still really

1293
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 2: benefit your white tails in this way while also helping

1294
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 2: so many other things.

1295
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 3: And then it's you know, in the.

1296
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 2: End, probably lower maintenance than constantly going in there every

1297
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 2: spring and summer and redoing your food blots over and

1298
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 2: over and over again. With all these inputs and all

1299
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 2: this chemical makes a lot of sense. So I love,

1300
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 2: I love that approach. It's very heard, it's very intriguing

1301
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:26,760
Speaker 2: to me.

1302
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 3: Well managed prairies, you know, an afternoon or two per

1303
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 3: year lasting well over thirty years. So in terms of

1304
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 3: like ROI on your your food plot, that that is

1305
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 3: definitely a possibility. That's incredible.

1306
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 2: You Nicholas particularly have mentioned this a couple different times

1307
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 2: you've mentioned like backyard stuff that's becoming more and more

1308
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 2: of a thing myself. You're a family, We've tried to

1309
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 2: add a couple of different little pollinator patches in our yard.

1310
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 3: We've we've tried to lose.

1311
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:01,599
Speaker 2: A lit little bit of our regular lawn every year.

1312
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:03,200
Speaker 2: We kind of give back a little bit more every

1313
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:07,759
Speaker 2: single year, slowly adding to the native stuff and trying

1314
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:08,880
Speaker 2: to manage that and improve that.

1315
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:11,680
Speaker 3: You guys have some mixes for this.

1316
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 2: You've probably talked to a lot of people trying to

1317
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 2: do something like this. Can you address some of the

1318
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:21,639
Speaker 2: common either little tricks that really help with that or

1319
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 2: mistakes that folks often run up against when it comes

1320
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 2: to trying to establish a little bit of a backyard prairie,

1321
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 2: a native prairie little patch in their garden, or they're

1322
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:35,320
Speaker 2: converting their backyard or whatever. You mentioned a few things, alrighty,

1323
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:37,120
Speaker 2: but I'd love to kind of look at this a

1324
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 2: little bit more focused and see if.

1325
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,000
Speaker 3: There's anything that you want to touch on. Yeah. Yeah, Well,

1326
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 3: we get a lot of questions. So we sell down

1327
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 3: to five hundred square feet worth, you know, in like

1328
01:11:47,479 --> 01:11:49,880
Speaker 3: little packets, and people ask for smaller. The problem with

1329
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,560
Speaker 3: smaller is it gets tough to make sure all the

1330
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 3: different species you have in the mix actually get into

1331
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 3: that tiny bag of one hundred square feet, and so

1332
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:01,479
Speaker 3: we are we kind of bottom out of that. It's

1333
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:05,759
Speaker 3: like forty dollars or something for a fifty something different

1334
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 3: species to put in there. But there's a couple of things. One,

1335
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:11,720
Speaker 3: if you have a really small area ten you know,

1336
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 3: maybe ten feet by ten feet, plugs is not a

1337
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:18,120
Speaker 3: bad option. It's more expensive, but you know, it kind

1338
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 3: of balances between having a yard your hoa won't complain

1339
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 3: about and and having that prairie those those natives on there.

1340
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:31,719
Speaker 3: But if you're wanting to spread seed, make sure and

1341
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 3: just like if you need to wait an extra year,

1342
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 3: it's okay, make sure you eliminate the vegetation that's there.

1343
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:38,679
Speaker 3: You know. I had a guy tell me he did

1344
01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 3: five springs on it, and I was like, great, you

1345
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 3: know you're not gonna find you crab grass in there.

1346
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 3: And then the other thing is we don't We'll sell

1347
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:52,120
Speaker 3: mixes like this, but it's not as common planting your

1348
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:56,639
Speaker 3: forbes one year and then coming back and planting your

1349
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,640
Speaker 3: grasses the next year. The reason is your grasses just

1350
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 3: are more aggressive. They get a better head start. Even

1351
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:05,040
Speaker 3: if you take out big blue steminion and switch grass,

1352
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 3: the tall grasses, even if you take those out, even

1353
01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:10,479
Speaker 3: the little blue stem the rough drops, you can kind

1354
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 3: of come up a little bit faster than your forbes.

1355
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 3: And so giving your forbes an extra year head start.

1356
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:18,360
Speaker 3: Some of those forbes need two years of dormancy to

1357
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 3: even get through. It gives a little bit of an advantage.

1358
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 3: Or even starting your forbes in the fall and then

1359
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 3: planting your grasses the next spring, that's a pretty good strategy.

1360
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 3: But I would say I'm adding a lot of details.

1361
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:31,719
Speaker 3: For the most part, as long as you eliminate your vegetation,

1362
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 3: it's not that hard to get something to show up

1363
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 3: and look pretty. The big thing that one year I

1364
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 3: kept track of it was one hundred and twenty two

1365
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:46,800
Speaker 3: phone calls of just hey, nothing showed up yet, right

1366
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 3: the patient's piece to it. So they say, year one

1367
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,200
Speaker 3: it sleaps, year two it creeps, and year three leaps.

1368
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 3: But I would even argue that I tell people year one,

1369
01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 3: you're gonna think I sold you sand. Year two, I think, wait,

1370
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 3: I paid for that, all right. The year three it's

1371
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 3: gonna look great. But there are species in there, some

1372
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 3: blazing stars, the cardinal flowers. Some of these they don't

1373
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,560
Speaker 3: like showing up first, two, three, four years. Some of

1374
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 3: them will show up year six, seven. A gentein things

1375
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 3: like this that have a high number of coefficients, and

1376
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 3: so they come later. So patience is a really strong game.

1377
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 3: But it also brings a lot of delight when on

1378
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 3: year six you see something in a two hundred square

1379
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:30,880
Speaker 3: foot plot that you'd never seen before. It's a really

1380
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:31,559
Speaker 3: cool feeling.

1381
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:34,760
Speaker 2: Well, they say, what with trees, Like, the best time

1382
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 2: of playing a tree was yesterday?

1383
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:37,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the next best times today.

1384
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:39,599
Speaker 2: Well I think it's probably the same with a prairie, right,

1385
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 2: I mean, oh yeah, I appreciate some patience, but every

1386
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:44,920
Speaker 2: day you wait as a day wasted.

1387
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, man, Kent, would you add anything on the

1388
01:14:49,479 --> 01:14:50,760
Speaker 3: on the backyard front.

1389
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 4: No, just the importance of that maintenance, and maybe also

1390
01:14:55,400 --> 01:15:00,240
Speaker 4: a little bit on planning. You know, I'm mumble, I'm

1391
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:03,600
Speaker 4: from Iowa, but planning with meeting without the tea in it.

1392
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 4: So if you're going to be able to burn this thing,

1393
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:08,120
Speaker 4: you need to make sure that it's not too close

1394
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 4: to the house. Not you know, preferably not right under

1395
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 4: the power lines or or whatever. You know, make sure

1396
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 4: it's a because otherwise what will happen is you just

1397
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 4: won't manage it how it needs to be managed. And

1398
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:23,639
Speaker 4: and you'll tell yourself when you're planting it, now, I'll

1399
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 4: figure it out, I'll get it, you know, I'll get

1400
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:27,680
Speaker 4: it burned. And then that you're standing there with the

1401
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 4: box matches in your hands, you like, there ain't no

1402
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 4: way I'm lighting the stame on fire, you know, And

1403
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:34,479
Speaker 4: so may you know a little bit of a little

1404
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:37,640
Speaker 4: bit of good planning on what's going to be realistically

1405
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:41,840
Speaker 4: manageable to you is critically important. Otherwise what ends up

1406
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 4: happening to those prairies is eventually they go without the

1407
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:49,080
Speaker 4: proper maintenance and they just get mowed and then seeded

1408
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 4: back down into some kind of turf grass. So you

1409
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 4: want it, you want it to be something that's going

1410
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:55,840
Speaker 4: to stick around for the long haul. So a little

1411
01:15:55,880 --> 01:16:01,280
Speaker 4: bit of a little bit of planning goes a long way.

1412
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 2: Measure twice that once that's right, well, we've only just

1413
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:09,280
Speaker 2: barely scratched the surface of a lot of these topics.

1414
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:12,639
Speaker 2: I mean, this is this is really some very basic

1415
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:16,720
Speaker 2: introductory into a lot of this. But you guys, I

1416
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 2: have to commend you. You guys have put together a

1417
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:24,040
Speaker 2: really great resource with your podcast. You do a great

1418
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 2: job with your social clips getting those out there. I

1419
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:31,000
Speaker 2: think that's that's really well done. I've learned really interesting

1420
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 2: little nuggets over the last handful of years following that,

1421
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:38,479
Speaker 2: and then in the podcast, just a tremendous marketing mechanism

1422
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 2: for your business, I'll say, and then also great resource

1423
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:45,120
Speaker 2: for anybody who wants to learn more. And it's not

1424
01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:48,720
Speaker 2: just about, uh, you know, the specifics of planting a

1425
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 2: prairie or planting native grasses or anything like that. You

1426
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 2: guys are not telling you guys anything new, but to

1427
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 2: the folks listening, I've really appreciated you know, you guys

1428
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 2: explore a lot of conservation related issues, a lot of

1429
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:00,639
Speaker 2: things related to the farming account of me and small

1430
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:04,799
Speaker 2: business owners, and and just lots of really fascinating stuff.

1431
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 2: I'm glad that my buddy recommended checking you guys out,

1432
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:10,679
Speaker 2: because every time I drop in and listen to something,

1433
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:13,439
Speaker 2: I find myself thinking, like, these guys.

1434
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 3: Are doing this well.

1435
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 2: There's a lot of podcasts out there and I don't

1436
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 2: say that about a lot of them.

1437
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 3: You guys really.

1438
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:24,920
Speaker 2: Well, you're welcome, and I want to give you guys

1439
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 2: an opportunity here real quick before we wrap it up,

1440
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:30,720
Speaker 2: to just let folks know where can they find your

1441
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 2: guys's work, both the content and then also how can

1442
01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 2: they connect with with Hoxy and the seeds and maybe

1443
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 2: get some of your products in their hands. Will either

1444
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:40,519
Speaker 2: one of you guys like to share that?

1445
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, uh, well, we have two different social media

1446
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:49,120
Speaker 3: so we have Hoxy, h ok s e Y, Hoxy

1447
01:17:49,240 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 3: Native Seeds. I think it's on basically everything, and what

1448
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 3: we do there is we talk about what we have

1449
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 3: going on the farm and we uh have little clips

1450
01:17:57,120 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 3: about that. Usually it's ken to face, although Mark you

1451
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 3: want to hear something kind of sad. We had two

1452
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 3: guest videos from two different people. They are two of

1453
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 3: by far, the most watched videos we've ever had on

1454
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 3: the social account. That Maks Yeah that that art me

1455
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:17,600
Speaker 3: ken or Riley is just like somebuddy. And then the

1456
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:19,960
Speaker 3: other one is the Prairie Farm podcast. That one's also

1457
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 3: ever I think you can watch the most. A few

1458
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 3: months ago we started posting them on YouTube as well,

1459
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:29,680
Speaker 3: but otherwise the major platforms, the Prairie Farm podcast, and

1460
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:33,160
Speaker 3: I want to give one more shout out. And my

1461
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:37,719
Speaker 3: dad in the eighties one against farming and was made

1462
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:40,479
Speaker 3: fun of by his neighbors to start a prairie farm.

1463
01:18:41,439 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 3: And he passed away this past summer from cancer cancer

1464
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 3: that is not proven because but highly correlated with water

1465
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 3: quality issues, the exact thing he was fighting against. And

1466
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 3: I'm very grateful for him, and so every time I

1467
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:59,080
Speaker 3: show my face publicly, I just want to commend him

1468
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:01,080
Speaker 3: as and I'm grateful to say he was a good

1469
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:03,080
Speaker 3: dad and a good person behind the scenes as well,

1470
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 3: and so yeah, I really want to commend him. And

1471
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,200
Speaker 3: this is all everything we're doing is possible because of this.

1472
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:13,640
Speaker 3: And before anybody ever listened to our podcast, he I

1473
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:16,559
Speaker 3: bet he spent fifty thousand dollars on the podcast, believing

1474
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 3: in Kent and I just going around interviewing these people

1475
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:21,880
Speaker 3: for you know, a year and a half before probably

1476
01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 3: a single listener came on. So we're very grateful to him.

1477
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 2: That's that's incredible, and of course very sorry for the loss,

1478
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:33,519
Speaker 2: but also so so impressed with with your dad's story

1479
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:35,400
Speaker 2: and what you guys have built and what he built

1480
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 2: and the mission that you guys seen beyond it. It's inspiring,

1481
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:43,160
Speaker 2: it's encouraging in a world where if you care about

1482
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 2: the natural world, if you care about native wildlife, habitat,

1483
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:50,320
Speaker 2: clean air, clean water, if you pay attention to it,

1484
01:19:50,360 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 2: you can recognize the fact there's a lot of wounds

1485
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 2: out there. You know, Leopold said, we live in a

1486
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,600
Speaker 2: world of wounds once you kind of have eyes to

1487
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 2: see it.

1488
01:19:58,160 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 3: But work like the.

1489
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 2: Kind that you guys are doing gives me hope that

1490
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:06,000
Speaker 2: we can we can address those wounds and we can

1491
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:08,880
Speaker 2: make things better. So keep up the good work. I

1492
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:11,839
Speaker 2: appreciate you guys, and thanks for being here on the podcast.

1493
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:13,920
Speaker 3: Absolutely thanks for having us.

1494
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:17,080
Speaker 2: All right, and that's going to do it for us today.

1495
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:19,280
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me here on the podcast. I

1496
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:23,120
Speaker 2: hope you learned a few things about native prairie habitat

1497
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:27,240
Speaker 2: and ecosystems, native grasses, flowers, forbes. Now, all of that

1498
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:29,479
Speaker 2: can help you as a deer hunter. It can help

1499
01:20:29,479 --> 01:20:31,960
Speaker 2: your white tail deer. It can help your turkeys, your pheasants,

1500
01:20:32,040 --> 01:20:34,839
Speaker 2: your grouse, your quail, your butterflies, your birds, your bunnies,

1501
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 2: all across the board.

1502
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:38,840
Speaker 3: This is a good thing. I hope in.

1503
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:40,320
Speaker 2: Your neck of the woods you can help put a

1504
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 2: little more of it on the ground. I certainly will

1505
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:45,280
Speaker 2: be trying to do the same. So until next time,

1506
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:49,040
Speaker 2: thank you for being here, and stay wired to hugg