WEBVTT - Collections | Ashley's Story 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:04.960 He denied it. He was like, I'm not gonna get 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.400 in trouble for anything, and then I mean, at one 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:11.600 point he admitted, yes, there were pictures of kids, but 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.080 I've checked all the laws on this and there's nothing 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:16.320 wrong with what I'm doing. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:34.720 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal Episode six collections. 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:40.840 As I mentioned in previous episodes, we heard from women 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.120 all over the country. It's what made us realize there's 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.600 a bigger story here. People from all walks of life 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.280 are in possession of child sexual abuse material, also known 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:55.800 as c SAM. There's no economic difference or profession that 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.760 separates deviant behavior as humans. For families that are stung 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:04.640 by betrayal, the shock manifests in different ways. We heard 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.280 from Erin, whose story has a lot in common with Ashley's, 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:12.559 but it's also very different. You've heard about fight, flight 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:16.319 or freeze. This brave lady took it to another level. 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.360 I'm a marriage and family therapist. My dad was military 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:26.039 and my oldest brother was also military. My mom had 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.479 a real heart for the families that were left behind 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:33.120 during deployments, and I think that really inspired me to 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.399 become a marriage and family therapist. Someone who could understand 0:01:36.440 --> 0:01:42.360 that helping out first responders and military is impacting their lifestyle. 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:49.080 During the height of going to Afghanistan and going over 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.400 to the Middle East, deployments were happening a lot more quickly, 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:56.120 so you have these guys out there, and rather than 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.280 doing your time and then coming home, you were rotating 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.400 out like every six months, so this trauma was never 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:04.280 really ending. 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:10.160 Aaron's mother is now deceased, but her influence remains. Erin 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:14.359 is comfortable around military culture and its people. Through her family, 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:15.960 she met a soldier. 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.680 Joel would come home from deployments and hang out at 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:24.639 my brother's house where we became friends. And I had 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.200 recently gone through a breakup and my brother said, you 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:33.120 have shit tasted men. You really should date someone more 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.640 like Joel because he was a soldier. He was in 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.720 the military, so there were things that we thought were 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:45.680 like inherent guarantees, you know, like he wouldn't be on drugs, 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.040 he would be background checked, you know, certain things that 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:53.440 you figure you probably have the same value system. And 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:55.760 we grew up in the same community. 0:02:55.919 --> 0:03:00.400 That friendship grew into a relationship and then into a marriage. 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.960 Aaron was happy they eventually had two kids, a little 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:04.959 boy and girl. 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.119 Ninety percent of the time, I would say it fit 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:16.880 the mold of my perfect relationship. He was supportive and loving, 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:22.120 and we had a symmetrical relationship where we could easily 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.240 interchange parts. You know, I'd mo Thelann, he'd mow thelan. 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.800 I'd change a diver, he'd change a diver. Like either 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.000 of us could take over some task and knock it 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:31.799 out and get it done. 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:36.920 Aaron's husband had the highest military clearance. She understood that 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.400 she'd never know everything he faced. 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:48.040 Joel worked in explosive ordnance disposal. His job was to 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.680 make sure that there were no bombs in certain areas, 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:54.240 or if there were bombs, to send in a person 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:57.800 or a robot to disarm that bomb. Also to pick 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:02.920 up any debris, and sometimes that was bodies. You wouldn't 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.120 leave a body behind, so you'd have to pick it up, 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:06.200 bag it and take it home. 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.200 She knew his job had unique stressors, so she made 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:14.200 some allowances for bad behavior. When the family relocated to 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:17.000 a small town in Texas, I took a toll on her. 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.560 She felt disconnected from people, and since that her husband 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:22.680 was becoming more distant as well. 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:27.640 When I noticed that our marriage was declining. I thought 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:30.200 it was because I was having a hard time adjusting 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:34.039 to this new area. You know, everything was different. It 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:38.200 was further away from my family. I felt more and 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.680 more isolated from them. My mom had died just before 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:46.640 we got married, and we had really good communication. But 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.680 when Jamison got involved, that's when we would fight. 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.240 Jamison was Joel's whiskey of. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.800 Choice when he was really under the influence of alcohol. 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.039 I felt like I could I didn't reach him, I 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.359 couldn't talk to him. He would kick in the door 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.760 or I would ask for space. I would say, let's 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.440 come back to this in an hour and let ourselves 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:12.520 cool off, and then we can talk about this again. 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.520 He would pick the lock to the bedroom. 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.080 She's a therapist, so she did the natural thing, asked 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.600 for help, not just for herself but also for her husband. 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:26.240 But the therapist was discouraging. 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.560 He said, I honestly think you should just not bring 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.440 that up because he could lose his job, or he 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.120 could lose his weapon, and so I would just sort 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:38.200 of keep that to yourself. 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.960 Aaron thought about other areas where her marriage was struggling. 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.479 Their sex life was one of them. 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.680 I did feel like it was very automatic, and it 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.880 was very one sided. So like when you have one 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:54.480 of those Xbox controllers and you're like up down, up down, 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:58.719 x y Okay, it's done. Like I just like Mortal Kombat, 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:00.840 you know, like I know exactly what to do. I 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.000 know exactly what you like. And it didn't matter what 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.880 I liked. But maybe this is a part of marriage, 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.200 is it gets routine. 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.559 After a while, she wondered if there was something else 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:15.360 going on. 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.120 One night, he had gone out with a friend and 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:22.520 I had the inclination to snoop on his phone. I 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.040 feel like an angel or a guardian angel just was 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:29.440 nudging me, like, hey, something's off here. Go look through 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.000 his phone, go do something. So I looked through his 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:39.960 phone and I pulled up a picture in his search history. 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:44.119 It was a girl in a jazz outfit. It looked 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:48.480 like a Facebook page almost. She was maybe about six 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.799 years old. She was not naked, it wasn't anything lude. 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:54.880 It was like your wallet sized photos that you would 0:06:55.000 --> 0:07:00.320 order from whatever. And she looked really sad. But the 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:05.279 comments underneath the picture are what really bothered me. This 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.800 is our little Jenny with like the devil emoji, like 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:12.480 a smiling devil emoji or whatever, and I thought this 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:17.679 is weird. So I confronted him about that, and he said, 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:19.320 I don't even know what that is. I don't know 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.440 what you're talking about. Maybe I clicked on something, you know, whatever, 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:24.280 it's accidental. 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.320 Arin wasn't buying Joel's story. 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.520 It just didn't feel right to me. I knew he 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:35.760 had a history with porn, which I didn't necessarily mind. 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:40.360 But this wasn't pornography. These were disturbing comments around a 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.160 little girl's photo in her husband's search history. 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:48.600 He gas lit me and I didn't accept it, but 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.080 I didn't think it was to the point where it 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:57.920 was something reportable because I don't know this girl. I 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:02.239 don't know how he got to this page. 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.600 Now they were a critical mass, and Erin knew he 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:06.280 needed help. 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:11.200 I got him a therapist that was experienced in the military. 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.679 He was actually a retired military person, and we paid 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:17.440 cash so there would be no record of him going 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.200 to therapy, and I just tried to make it as 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:23.760 easy as possible for him to go. 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:28.640 But he wasn't getting better. His behavior was growing more concerning. 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:33.200 We got into a fight in May. It was a 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.160 silly fight, like he had been storing all night. So 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.440 I went and slept on the couch so I could 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:42.440 just finally get some sleep. And he woke me up 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.720 in the morning because he wanted to have sex, and 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.840 I was just so delirious and cranky. I was like, 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:53.760 get away from me. I finally fell asleep, don't touch me. 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.880 So he got upset and he was in a really grouchy, 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:04.679 powdy mood because I had rejected him. I started making 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:11.120 breakfast for him and the kids. My daughter was one, 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.160 my son was three. 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:19.360 The tension escalated. Joel said something ugly and Aaron responded 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:19.839 in kind. 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.400 I walked away. He threw a sippy cup at my back, 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.600 which doesn't sound like a big deal, but it really 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.280 her like. He really threw that cup at me hard 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.559 and it hit me in the shoulder. So I went 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.600 in the bathroom and I cried for a while. I 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.280 ended up leaving. I just got in my car and 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:42.520 went for a drive and sat by the side of 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:44.160 the road and cried and thought for a while. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:54.640 She needed more support, but she didn't know where to turn. 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.000 I was kind of afraid to tell my family what 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:00.360 was going on, because already they often had his back 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.240 on things, and I had this reputation for being the 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:09.199 dramatic baby sister, So I just kind of sat there 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:10.839 and thought, like, what am I going to do with this? 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.920 You know, maybe I can talk to him and get 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:17.080 him to agree, like he shouldn't be violent with me, 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.040 or whatever the case may be. But I was getting 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.880 really really anxious in having an increase in panic attacks 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.680 by this point because his behavior was getting more and 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.520 more unpredictable like that. I ended up coming back to 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:33.920 the house because my son had a soccer game, and 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:37.840 so there we go, just being normal couple again. We 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:39.640 get in the car, we go to the soccer game, 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.480 and we watch it. Then when we came back to 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.120 the house, I think he was trying to punish me. 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.280 So he took off for a while and left me 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:51.800 with the kids, and I figured, okay, whatever, let him 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.760 cool off and I'll see him later. That's when that 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:56.320 little nudge came at me again. 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.000 So she followed her gut. 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.679 I decided to look at his computer. There was no 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:07.520 search history, there was nothing, It was completely clean, and 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:12.520 I went into his recently deleted files and that's where 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:17.600 there was just a plethora of pictures the titles of 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:23.200 these things were pretty indicative of there being young women 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:28.440 on there, like little Miss Country USA. All different ages, 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.160 all different looks. It's not like he had one kink 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:38.760 or one fetish. It was so many people he had collected. 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.160 I clicked on one and it was this little girl 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:47.600 who I'd never seen before, don't recognize at all, standing 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.000 naked on a beach. She had a look on her 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.480 face like, this is not me being cute and playing 0:11:54.520 --> 0:12:00.160 on the beach. No, it was inappropriate. So I actually 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.560 took a picture of her from the face up because 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.080 I just needed to prove to myself that I wasn't crazy. 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:09.720 And then I took a picture of the names of 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:11.920 the files, and then I shut it all down and 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:16.400 I put it all back. I called his brother, who 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.120 was a cop in Colorado and works with cases specifically 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:20.520 like this. 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.400 She was far away from friends and family. 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:28.800 I'm in Texas and my family live in California, so 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.440 I was completely frozen in fear, not knowing what to do. 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:34.240 And he said, do you think you can get the 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.680 laptop and take it with you? Hell no, I don't 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.360 even know if I can take me and take it 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:42.440 with me. Like there was no way. I was going 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.200 to go back into that lion's den and let him 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.920 know that I was on to him. 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.160 But she knew now, she knew what he was doing. 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.400 He had a large stash of photos. She had to 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.240 get herself and her young kids out of there. He 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.480 had a weapon, and he was a soldier. Now she 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:02.200 feared him. 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.400 He was probably gone for a couple of hours. So 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.920 when he came home and I am just soaked with tears, 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:11.840 he thought it was because of our fight that morning. 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.040 He said, you know, I'm really sorry. I hope you 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.320 can forgive me. Let's just move past this, and so 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:22.120 I played along. I said, yeah, you know, it really hurt, 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.920 but I'll get over it. I just want to go 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:31.160 through the kid's clothes because their dressers are overflowing, and 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:32.920 I'm going to take some of these clothes over to 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:37.600 the donation bin. So we're fine. It's fine. We actually hugged, 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:42.160 which was so cringey, but I was just trying to 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:43.120 get out of there safely. 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.240 The donating clothes of a ruse. She was packing clothes 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.880 for the kids, just enough for a few days. Aaron 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:53.840 offered to take the kids on a play date so 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:54.800 he could take a nap. 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.040 I'd packed the bag and I just got in the 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.040 car and I went to the airport. Is a very 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:04.920 small airport, so it's like one man friends the whole thing. 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.040 And I think he could tell the look on my 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.280 face because he said, it's going to cost you like 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:15.240 seventeen hundred dollars to fly out tomorrow on the next flight, 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.320 and I said, I don't care, let's do it, let's go. 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.280 Aaron took the kids to a hotel near the airport 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.320 and stayed the night. When he called asking when they'd 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:25.040 be home. 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:26.760 I just told him like, oh, I'm at one of 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.680 my friend's house. The kids are watching a movie. You know, 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.840 we'll be home later. Oh, the kids fell asleep. I'm 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.400 just going to let them spend the night here and 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.360 we'll be home in the morning. And I think he 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.760 was content with that because then he could just continue 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.920 to drink and play video games and kind of do 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:48.840 his own thing, so he wasn't really alerted. He found 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:54.560 out that we were gone when I landed in Dallas 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.120 and when I got to California, and then that's when 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.680 I told him, you know, I know what's on your computer. 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.160 I know what's going on. I know that this isn't 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:05.440 going away, and I'm not coming home until I get 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.080 some answers on what's going on. 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.960 Arin returned to her hometown, where two older brothers and 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:15.600 her father lived and Joel's parents were close by. Two. Now, 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.320 with her family, she wouldn't have to face this alone. 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.680 I went straight to my brother because he was the 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.120 closest to me at that time, we were the closest 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:27.400 in age, and so I went to his house. I 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:29.880 called all the family over and I said, this is 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:33.200 what I found, this is what's going on, and I 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.080 don't know how to handle this situation and I need help. 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.760 My dad was like, let's think about this because if 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.040 he goes to jail or something, you're going to lose 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:50.320 all of your military benefits. Like I give a fuck 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.520 another question. They asked, well, how old are these girls? 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:57.280 It doesn't fucking matter. 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.000 Another one of her family members count her with words 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.400 like love the sinner, hate the sin, And I realized 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.280 there seems to be a kind of ignorance or impediment. 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.720 There are people who just can't understand that viewing this 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:15.000 material is egregious criminal behavior. It reminded me of what 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.120 John Huber said a few episodes back. 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:20.280 We were getting some pushback from federal judges of why 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.720 are you bringing these cases people looking at pictures? You know, 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.840 what's the big deal. We thought that was a misunderstanding 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.680 and that we need to communicate better to the judges 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:33.200 what we're talking about. 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.480 But Erin understood perfectly. 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:41.160 If they had been seventeen or sixteen, it's still not consensual. 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.800 These kids are still affected for the rest of their life. 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.960 They didn't put their pictures up there. Somebody's abusing them, 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.640 so like, what were you going to say that it's okay? 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.600 Even with the pain? Aarin was able to think about 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.560 the long term consequences of reconnecting with him. 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.320 If I covered for him, if I didn't bring this up, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.480 if I didn't tell anyone, but I knew that this 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.760 had happened, I would never feel okay with my kids 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.480 having a slumber party. They could never have a birthday 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:13.960 party at our house. How could I be sure that 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:20.080 he would perpetrate online but not perpetrate people in real life? 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.439 You know? How was I to know that it wouldn't 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.600 snowball into that, Like I would have to constantly be 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.240 on guard. I would have to take them to every 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:32.920 grocery trip. It's impossible, and that's not a life for 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:38.679 kids to have to live. So that wasn't reasonable. 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.679 She wasn't getting the family support she had hoped for, 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.040 but she did find someone who listened. 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.840 I saw my therapist from when I was fifteen years old. 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:49.639 I got a hold of her and she's a really 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.520 great therapist, and she made time to see me for 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:55.399 just a few minutes. She said, so, what are you 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:59.280 doing back in California? And I just bawled and broke 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.880 down and told her. She said, if you don't report this, 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.760 I'm gonna report this. And I was like, oh fuck, 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:08.160 it's go time. 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:11.239 She called the office where Joel worked and reported it. 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:16.280 His colleague asked questions, one of them was how old 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:17.560 were the girls in the photos? 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:20.600 Like, maybe I don't have to report it if their 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.879 birthday's coming up, you know, Like no, it's a big deal. 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.440 And he really kind of acted like maybe we'd gotten 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.919 in a fight. I was being a vindictive wife, Like 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.040 I'm just throwing these accusations out there. 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.120 It's hard to stomach the reaction from Joel's coworker. It's 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.960 another version of are you just being dramatic? This was difficult. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:42.680 This was a loss for Erin. 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:47.800 Initially I felt like, yes, I'm doing the right thing, 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:50.760 but I feel like someone just cut off my right arm. 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.960 I just betrayed my husband, and I don't know what's 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:55.400 going on. 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.160 She held onto a little bit of hope that there 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.040 was a reason Joel had done this. Maybe it's a 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.040 part of a secret mission. She couldn't know about. 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.000 What if there's some miraculous thing, like there's a reasonable 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.359 explanation for this. And I just completely betrayed my best friend, 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.560 you know, And now I'm shoving him out the door. 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:20.160 I'm pushing him off the cliff. It just fell awful. 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.600 I felt gas lit for a lot of years, thinking 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:27.720 not did I do the right thing. I know I 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.280 did the right thing, but I just felt gas lit 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:35.520 because no one else could understand that, and I felt 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:37.480 really alone and miserable. 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.720 To be honest, Aaron wasn't finding any evidence of a 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:46.560 reasonable explanation. She was finding more suspicious activity. 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:52.400 I found charges on his credit card to like weird websites, 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.760 and I was like, oh my god, this is not good. 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.480 He's been doing this for a while. He took some 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.360 of the money and started paying off those credit cards 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.679 were reporting him stolen to kind of like start covering 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:07.679 his tracks, and I was like, Okay, now I know 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.119 this is bad because your reaction. 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:13.560 Aaron's call to the military made its way to the 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:17.479 Office of Special Investigations the OSI. 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:22.080 And then OSI facetimed me and asked me again what 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:25.800 I had seen and what I had heard, and they said, okay, 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:29.640 well we are going to take care of this. We're 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:31.359 not going to scare him or anything. We're not going 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:32.320 to hurt him or anything. 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:37.280 Erin was upset, heartbroken and angry, but she still didn't 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:38.680 want Joel to be injured. 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.520 And then what actually happened the next day was that 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.320 they decided, because we didn't technically live on base, they 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.760 passed it over to the local police department, and the 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.359 local police department decided that because he had all this 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:58.040 top secret security clearance, because he had experienced working with bombs, 0:20:58.080 --> 0:20:59.640 that he was a high threat. 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.320 And the local police weren't taking any chances. 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.040 They went into the house with flashbangs, knocking down the door. 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.320 The detective told me he was sitting at the couch 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:15.399 with his hard drives, trying to erase everything, trying to 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.280 get rid of all of this evidence. So they went 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.040 in there and they arrested him, and they took all 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.600 the electronics. I'm really glad we weren't there for that. 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.359 Joel was arrested and made bail soon after, and he 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.760 was determined to see his wife and kids. 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:41.199 I think he was trying to be nice to me, 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:44.600 hoping that I would renag or whatever, like pull back 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:46.600 on all of this stuff. And I said, we're not 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:51.280 going home until I fully understand what happened here, what's 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:54.040 going on, Like, you can't have any secrets from me, 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:57.520 So until you're ready to just spill your guts, we 0:21:57.600 --> 0:21:59.600 are not going back there at all. 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:04.560 She fled Texas with just her children. She had left everything, 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.160 her job, her clothes, the kid's toys. 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.240 He did come out at one time after I left, 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:13.600 to bring me some of my stuff and the kids 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:14.160 this stuff. 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:20.159 His visit to California went downhill quickly. Joel returned to 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:21.040 work in Texas. 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.679 He went back to work, and the military decided that 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:29.760 because he wasn't convicted, he wasn't found guilty yet, that 0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.200 they would just put them in a different position. That's 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:35.960 what they call like pencil whipped, you know, basically like, 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:38.399 you're going to do paperwork over here for a while 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:39.720 until this settles down. 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:43.920 Aaron says that Joel wasn't contrite about downloading the images 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:45.000 he had collected. 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.440 He denied it. He was like, I'm not going to 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.880 get in trouble for anything. And then I mean, at 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:54.680 one point he admitted, yes, you know, there were pictures 0:22:54.720 --> 0:22:57.880 of kids, but it's art. It's considered art. I'll never 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:01.760 forget that. H was saying, like, I've checked all the 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:06.960 laws on this, and I know exactly what is considered 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:10.119 art and what is considered pornography, and there's nothing wrong 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:13.320 with what I'm doing. And I said there is, though, 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:17.680 because those kids are not even old enough to consent 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:20.800 to having their pictures taken. These kids are being abused, 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:25.160 and you are facilitating that, You're endorsing that. I don't 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:28.480 care what your excuse is. And I pretty much didn't 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:30.800 even bother to debate it with him anymore. I was 0:23:30.840 --> 0:23:31.400 just so done. 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:37.840