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Speaker 1: By US standards, Brazil's Highway BR fourteen is certainly no

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Speaker 1: Indiana Turnpike or New York State Thruway. Meandering one three

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty miles from Belem to Brasilia through the

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Speaker 1: jungles and scrub of Brazil's wild interior, it is barely

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Speaker 1: two lanes wide. The surface is dust in the dry season,

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Speaker 1: mud in the wet and some of the ruts could

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Speaker 1: swallow a Volkswagen alive. Yet, in the eyes of former

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Speaker 1: President Juicellino Kubacek, who built the road between nineteen fifty

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Speaker 1: six and nineteen sixty, BR fourteen is the highway of

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Speaker 1: dreams for underdeveloped Brazil and the means to a new

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Speaker 1: civilization on the central plateau. So it is since the

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Speaker 1: road's opening in nineteen sixty, some six hundred thousand settlers

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Speaker 1: have poured into the area to tap Brazil's immense riches.

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Speaker 1: Every day, long lines of trucks rumble north and south,

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Speaker 1: carrying out lumber, rubber, and vegetable oil. New farmlands produce beans, rice, corn,

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Speaker 1: and fruit to feed Brazil's exploding population. What was once

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Speaker 1: useless scrub in the central state of Goyas is now

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Speaker 1: pastureland for four million head of cattle, and prospectors fanning

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Speaker 1: out from the road have found a vast mineral potential,

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Speaker 1: with deposits of nickel, tin, lead, zinc, copper, gold, diamonds,

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Speaker 1: and quartz. Towns are sprouting every few miles. If I

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Speaker 1: don't pass a certain stretch of road for two or

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Speaker 1: three weeks, says one road engineer, I almost always find

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Speaker 1: a new cluster of shacks there when I get back.

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Speaker 1: Our Guayina, which got its start in nineteen fifty eight

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Speaker 1: as a road construction camp five hundred miles north of Brasilia,

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Speaker 1: is now up to eight thousand people, has its own

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Speaker 1: branch of the Bank of Brazil, and will soon have

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Speaker 1: a one point six million dollar factory that will refine

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Speaker 1: oil from native babecue, nuts, peanuts, cotton, and sunflower seeds,

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Speaker 1: and produce the cans in which to export the oil

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Speaker 1: and cut up local mahogany to make cases for the cans.

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Speaker 2: I love your newscaster voice, thank you, and I hate

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Speaker 2: everything else about that.

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Speaker 1: I think it so. That was from excerpted from a

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Speaker 1: Time article published on January seventh, nineteen sixty six, titled

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Speaker 1: Brazil on the Road. To dreams, and it's such a

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Speaker 1: fascinating reflection. I think of how forward progress was viewed

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Speaker 1: at the time, like yeah, we must go forward, and

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Speaker 1: like it's it's also understandable, right right, Like there's this

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Speaker 1: is economy that's driving this. But the reason that we

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Speaker 1: picked this particular article or this excerpt is because that

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Speaker 1: construction on that road is what is thought to have

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Speaker 1: led to the spillover and spread initially of the focus

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Speaker 1: of today's episode, which is or a pouch virus. Hi,

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Speaker 1: I'm Aaron Welsh and I'm Erin Alman Updike, and this

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Speaker 1: is this podcast, will kill you? Welcome to or a

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Speaker 1: push virus? Or a push virus. Yeah, we've got one

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Speaker 1: time to learn how to say that. Yeah, this morning.

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Speaker 1: We've gotten some requests over the years for this virus,

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Speaker 1: and it's interesting. I feel like we've been seeing it

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Speaker 1: trickle more and more in the news lately, and so

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Speaker 1: we wanted to just kind of like get a lay

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Speaker 1: of the land. What's going on, how is it transmitted?

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Speaker 1: Why is it suddenly making headlines.

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Speaker 2: It's it's gonna be a great episode because I feel

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Speaker 2: like it's really going back to urine my roots. Erin

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Speaker 2: of like, what got us wanting to make this podcast

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Speaker 2: in the first place. And it's been a really long

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Speaker 2: time since we've done a vector worn disease, since we've

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Speaker 2: done an infectious disease.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, how do we do this? I

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Speaker 1: know there aren't many books to read on this right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So yeah, We've got a lot for this episode

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Speaker 2: and I'm excited about it.

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Speaker 1: Me too, Me too. What are we drinking this week, Aaron?

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Speaker 1: We're drinking sloth sprits. Yeah, or push virus is often

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Speaker 1: called sloth fever or sloth flu. Been seen it called,

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Speaker 1: and I don't love it, no, but we are going

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Speaker 1: to honor the sloth in this way. I love sloths.

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Speaker 1: I do too, I do too. Yeah, tell us what's

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Speaker 1: in sloth sprits?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's a delicious little concoction of passion fruit

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Speaker 2: juice or whatever, nectar nectar, passion fruit, lime, mint, and

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Speaker 2: you know, some bubbly of some kind.

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Speaker 1: Choice's delicious, refreshing, et cetera. All the above. We'll post

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Speaker 1: it on our socials. In our socials, on our socials,

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Speaker 1: not our website.

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Speaker 2: But on our website you can find a lot of

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Speaker 2: other great stuff, like, for example, transcripts from all of

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Speaker 2: our episode sources from this in every single episode, Bloodmobile.

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Speaker 2: Who does the music? We've got merch This is an

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Speaker 2: old one. I don't know if it's still available.

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Speaker 1: I love that shirt though, met too.

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Speaker 2: We've got Patreon, We've got a contact us form, a

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Speaker 2: first hand account form.

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Speaker 1: Listen, it's basing than Look. Yeah, this podcast will kill

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Speaker 1: you dot com. It's there, It's there. I have a

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Speaker 1: piece of business because this has been bothering me since

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Speaker 1: we listened to the episode for like QC purposes. You

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Speaker 1: know what I'm gonna say, erin I do elephant I didn't.

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Speaker 1: This has bothered me deeply that I mess this up.

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Speaker 1: Elephant's poop. If I had thought about it, I would have.

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Speaker 1: I would have. I would have realized that fifteen pounds

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Speaker 1: sounds like a lot to us, but for an elephant,

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Speaker 1: which is gargantuan, right, actually doesn't sound like that much

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Speaker 1: in a day. And it's true, it's not that much

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Speaker 1: for an elephant in a day. Fifteen pounds is more

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Speaker 1: like in one poop sash throughout the day. It's about

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Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty pounds. That's pounds, and they poop

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Speaker 1: like twelve to fifteen times a day. So that's how

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Speaker 1: the wow maths. Yeah, twelve to fifteen times a day.

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Speaker 1: They're basically it's just they're just poopish. Yeah, the constant wow.

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Speaker 2: I love knowing that fat for more poop facts. What's

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Speaker 2: really funny, Aaron is in that episode when you say

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Speaker 2: fifteen pounds, I'm like, fifty pounds because I also clearly

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Speaker 2: was like that sounds like so much. I numbers are

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Speaker 2: really hard to conceptualize sometimes.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you're talking about pounds of poop, it

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Speaker 1: really does feel Yeah. Yeah, So anyways, anyways, that's my correction. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to mention this is technically the start

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Speaker 1: of season nine. I know, there's no break, and so

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Speaker 1: if we if you hear AU say season nine or

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Speaker 1: new season or whatever, it's only for at this point

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Speaker 1: our file, organizational system, our file.

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Speaker 2: But and also like I think, our hearts because I'm

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Speaker 2: really proud that we've made it to season nine.

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Speaker 1: Are you hitting me? Yeah? We doing this for that long? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Halloween twenty seventeen. Yeah, we're still there's still more things

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Speaker 1: that can kill you.

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Speaker 2: So speaking of a whole season planned, but first we

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Speaker 2: begin with or a poosh virus right after this break

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Speaker 2: or a pooshe virus is an arbovirus, which means that

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Speaker 2: it's a virus that is transmitted by arthropods, an arthropod

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Speaker 2: born virus. Some of our favorites that we've ever covered,

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Speaker 2: I think are arboviruses vector born diseases in general.

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Speaker 1: I mean disease ecology really, you know, Yeah, it's in

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Speaker 1: our heart of hearts. True.

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Speaker 2: But one of the things that's quite unique about this

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Speaker 2: virus compared to any other that we have covered before,

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Speaker 2: is that it's transmitted by a whole new arthropod that

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Speaker 2: we have never talked about on this podcast, and that.

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Speaker 1: Is a midge. A midge, So let's talk about what

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Speaker 1: image is, shall we. Yeah, I am, I can't I

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Speaker 1: truly can't wait. I mean that sincerely.

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Speaker 2: So a midge or a biting midge is a type

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Speaker 2: of biting fly, And the term biting midge is not

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Speaker 2: a very scientific grouping of biting fly whatsoever, because in

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Speaker 2: some places these might be called sandflies, even though they

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Speaker 2: might not be what we would have called sand flies.

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Speaker 2: In other places, they might be called no sums. And

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Speaker 2: there's probably even more other terms that people use for these,

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Speaker 2: but in any case, these are teeny tiny, and by

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Speaker 2: teeny tiny, I mean they're like one to three millimeters long.

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Speaker 2: Like the there's pictures of them online on someone's thumbnail

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Speaker 2: where they barely take up the space that like between

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Speaker 2: your cuticle and your thumb.

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Speaker 1: Like barely, Sam, Yeah, no, barely, Sam.

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Speaker 2: There's other pictures online of them next to a mosquito,

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Speaker 2: and you think of mosquitos, like, they're not very large

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Speaker 2: compared to many other types of flies.

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Speaker 1: Depending on the mosquito. But yeah, yeah, some of them

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Speaker 1: are heaty, scary ones.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, but they're but compared to a mosquito, they're

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Speaker 2: like so deeny.

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Speaker 1: They're like the size of a.

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Speaker 2: Mosquito's head that is cheni, I know, kind of adorable.

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Speaker 2: And in this case, we're talking about these biting midges

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Speaker 2: in the family serato Pogona dae, specifically this species. There's

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Speaker 2: one major species that we think is the primary vector

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Speaker 2: for oropoosch virus, and that is Culaicoid's paraensis. Yes, and

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Speaker 2: these biting midges in this family and in this genus,

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Speaker 2: they share some similarities with mosquitoes, but also quite a

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Speaker 2: lot of differences. First of all, they're quite small. They're

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Speaker 2: proboscis that they use to bite us and do their

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Speaker 2: blood feeding is not nearly as long or robust as mosquitoes,

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Speaker 2: so they can't as easily bite through our clothing.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's good news. It is good news.

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Speaker 2: However, they're so small that they can fit through things

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Speaker 2: like most of our screensh No, yes, yes, so they're

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Speaker 2: harder to keep out of your house and things like that. Okay,

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Speaker 2: But similar to mosquitoes, their larvae are aquatic, and similar

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Speaker 2: to mosquitoes, it is only the females who blood feed

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Speaker 2: in order to mature their eggs. So in the case

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Speaker 2: of oropush virus, this midge Quliicoid's paraensis will take a

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Speaker 2: blood meal from an infected person or animal. We'll get there,

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Speaker 2: and then upon their next blood meal, we'll spit that

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Speaker 2: virus back out into another host. And that is kind

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Speaker 2: of all that I can say about the transmission cycle.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes in these virus or arbovirus or vector borne disease episodes,

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Speaker 2: we can get into a lot more detail about what's

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Speaker 2: going on inside that vector, about how long it takes

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Speaker 2: for this virus to disseminate and then be able to

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Speaker 2: be transmitted. It is amazing how relatively little we know

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Speaker 2: about this virus. So we think that this one species,

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Speaker 2: Kuloicoid's paraensis, this one species of biting midge is the

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Speaker 2: primary vector to humans and probably to other animals. But

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Speaker 2: much like many other vector born diseases that we've covered

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Speaker 2: on this podcast, there are kind of two different cycles

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Speaker 2: of this virus. Right, there's a wild cycle or a

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Speaker 2: sylvatic cycle, and there's an urban cycle. And in the

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Speaker 2: wild or silvatic cycle. It's thought that sloths, especially three

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Speaker 2: toe sloths as well as I know, right.

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Speaker 1: They're like, I'm sorry, but they are the cuter slot,

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Speaker 1: but you apologize just like by far. Yeah, it's quite dramatic,

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Speaker 1: it is. They're the ones with a mask.

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Speaker 2: If you haven't, if you don't distinctly know off the

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Speaker 2: top of your head the differences between a two tone

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Speaker 2: and in addition to the number of toes, the three

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Speaker 2: toes are the ones with the black and white little mask,

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Speaker 2: and the two toes are brown and have a little.

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Speaker 1: Pig nose, which is also cute, but it is a

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Speaker 1: different way, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, And I do like how fuzzy like their fur

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Speaker 2: is like longer and anyways, this is not an episode

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Speaker 2: about slots.

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Speaker 1: It should be it could be done.

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Speaker 2: So it is thought that sloths, as well as non

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Speaker 2: human primates like capuchins and howler monkeys and some bird species,

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Speaker 2: these are probably the most important vertebrate hosts of this virus.

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Speaker 2: But when it comes to the vector species, we don't

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Speaker 2: really know exactly which arthropods, which biting insects are playing

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Speaker 2: the biggest role in transmission in this wild cycle.

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Speaker 1: Especially so we.

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Speaker 2: Know that this biting midge, the Culicoiles paraensis, is definitely

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Speaker 2: present in the selvatic cycle. It definitely can and does

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Speaker 2: bite freely other animals in addition to humans. But there's

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Speaker 2: some evidence that various mosquito species, including some Clex mosquitoes

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Speaker 2: which transmit a wide variety of other illnesses, and some

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Speaker 2: eighties mosquitoes which are the primary vectors for things like

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Speaker 2: dengae virus which circulates in the same area as or

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Speaker 2: a pooch virus. Some of these mosquite have been found

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Speaker 2: to be infected with or a push virus, but we

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Speaker 2: don't really know are they what we call competent vectors,

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Speaker 2: can they actually transmit this virus to other animals, and

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Speaker 2: like how big of a role do they play in

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Speaker 2: the environment. We don't know, which is fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so a question about that, like what is the

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Speaker 1: midge's habitat preferences? Great question, We don't really know. We

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Speaker 1: don't really know.

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Speaker 2: Apparently the larva, especially of these species, this species in particular,

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Speaker 2: wasn't even like described and identified until the nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 2: which is so recent, and so we really just don't

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Speaker 2: know nearly as much as we should about the natural ecology.

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Speaker 2: And while other biting midge species are known to be

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Speaker 2: important vectors of a variety of animal diseases like blue

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Speaker 2: tongue virus and other viral infections as well, I don't

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Speaker 2: think that they have historically been considered as imp important

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Speaker 2: of a vector of human diseases compared to something like mosquitoes.

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Speaker 2: And so that's probably part of why their natural ecology

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Speaker 2: and just their understanding as vectors and just in general

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Speaker 2: is not as robust as it's just it's.

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Speaker 1: Just so interesting because I feel like they they occupy well,

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Speaker 1: do they occupy a similar niche as mosquitoes? They yeah,

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Speaker 1: But like there's there's like why do midges play less role?

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Speaker 1: This is like a bigger question than, but you can

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Speaker 1: ask it in general. You know, mosquitoes are what we

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Speaker 1: think of when we think of like vector born diseases

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Speaker 1: like mosquitoes, ticks and and midges don't feature very heavily.

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Speaker 2: Why why great question, I don't know, so yeah, But

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Speaker 2: so that's we think though, that this is the main

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Speaker 2: vector species. There's one other species of Kuliquoides as well

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Speaker 2: that has sometimes been found to be infected that might

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Speaker 2: play a role, especially in the urban cycle as well.

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Speaker 2: And the urban cycle meaning in the human cycle of.

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Speaker 1: Or A push virus.

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Speaker 2: It really is us humans who play the primary vertebrate host.

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Speaker 2: Our domestic animals do not seem to play a big

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Speaker 2: role in the maintenance of this virus in urban cycles,

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Speaker 2: except maybe chickens.

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Speaker 1: Even then, Yes, we don't study it enough.

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Speaker 2: Will know a lot more in the coming years, but

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Speaker 2: there is still so much that we don't really know

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Speaker 2: about this virus. What we do know is how it

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Speaker 2: tends to present. Even though the symptoms of or A

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Speaker 2: push virus really overlap with so many other arboviral so

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Speaker 2: like vector born viral illnesses and just other viral illnesses

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Speaker 2: in general, so they're very nonspecific. The symptoms tend to

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Speaker 2: start with a fever.

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Speaker 1: Classically.

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Speaker 2: Classically, headache is a very very common symptom, as well

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Speaker 2: as muscle aches, joint aches, dizziness. You might get chills.

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Speaker 2: Oftentimes people will have like ocular symptoms, eye symptoms like photophobia,

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Speaker 2: like your eyes hurt if you're trying to look at

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Speaker 2: the light. Or sometimes people get like redness in their eyes,

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Speaker 2: not like as full on as like a you know,

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Speaker 2: red eye, like pink eye infection, but just a bit

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Speaker 2: of like redness overall in the eyes.

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Speaker 1: Isn't doesn't that happen with zica or chicken guna, It

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Speaker 1: can happen with Yeah, I just feel like it was

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Speaker 1: like a feature symptom in one of those mosquito born ones.

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Speaker 1: That is more than I can remember, Aaron. It could

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Speaker 1: be a false memory, that's possible.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes people will have some like GI symptoms like nausea, vomiting,

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Speaker 2: abdominal pain. Sometimes they might have anorexia, like you just

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Speaker 2: feel so sick you don't really want to eat anything.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes people can get a rash, and I've seen it

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Speaker 2: described as kind of a Rubella type of rash. And Rubella,

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Speaker 2: if you don't remember, is another viral illness, not vector

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Speaker 2: born that causes this red, splotchy, pinpricky type of rash

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Speaker 2: that often is on like the torso and then can

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Speaker 2: spread to the face and spread downward. But it's really

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Speaker 2: like a very kind of non specific viral looking rash,

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Speaker 2: is the way I would describe it. And rarely sometimes

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Speaker 2: people can have haemorrhagic symptoms, so that might be things

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Speaker 2: that look like you're having a bit of bleeding, but

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Speaker 2: not like bleeding everywhere, but maybe your gums or maybe

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Speaker 2: a nose bleed or other kind of mucosal type of bleeding.

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Speaker 1: How is the virus causing these symptoms?

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Speaker 2: Great question, aarin no idea. Okay, we know so little.

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Speaker 2: I have a bit on this later on, but i'll

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Speaker 2: tell you now erin. We know so little about the

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Speaker 2: like pathophysiology of what this virus is doing in our bodies,

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Speaker 2: what sells? Is it even infecting? What sells? Does it

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Speaker 2: preferentially and effect? And where does it replicate? Like are

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Speaker 2: there specific tropisms, meaning are there certain types of cells

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Speaker 2: that it preferentially is going to infect and how and

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Speaker 2: why those cells?

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Speaker 1: And what are these symptoms? We don't know. We don't

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Speaker 1: know any of that as far as I can tell.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So yeah, we don't know why it's causing

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Speaker 2: these very non specific viral type symptoms.

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Speaker 1: But it is another thing though.

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Speaker 2: That we see with our push virus that we see

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Speaker 2: with a lot of other arboviral diseases, is that the

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Speaker 2: course of your symptoms can be what we call biphasic,

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Speaker 2: meaning that three to ten days or so after you

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Speaker 2: get infected, that's the usual incubation period. So after you

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Speaker 2: get these bites from these midges and you get infected,

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Speaker 2: you start with these symptoms that I've described, and that

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Speaker 2: first phase usually lasts like two to four days or so, okay,

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Speaker 2: and then you will get better, but then a week

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Speaker 2: to ten days later you might have a resurgence of

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Speaker 2: very similar symptoms. How often does this happen, we don't

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Speaker 2: really know, because again there's so much that we don't know,

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Speaker 2: but it suggested that it's like in up to sixty

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Speaker 2: percent of cases, which is quite high, so quite common

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Speaker 2: that you would have this kind of bi phasic illness.

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Speaker 1: And most of the time, I think the.

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Speaker 2: Best news about or a push virus is that the

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Speaker 2: vast majority of the time this is a self limited disease,

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Speaker 2: meaning those symptoms that I describe. You feel miserable, you

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Speaker 2: feel sick. Maybe it comes back and it lasts for

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Speaker 2: quite a while, but then you get better. When this

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Speaker 2: disease causes more severe symptoms, which it can, it can

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Speaker 2: result in a meningitis or a meninjo encephalitis, meaning infection

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Speaker 2: in the brain brain stem, causing swelling in your central

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Speaker 2: nervous system. Even in those cases, people almost always recover

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Speaker 2: and recover completely as far as we know, and there

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Speaker 2: are asterisks there, but up until twenty twenty four or

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Speaker 2: a PUSH virus had not been known to cause any deaths.

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Speaker 2: That's no longer true, but we'll talk more about it later, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Immunity immunity, great question. We don't know.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we don't know how good of immunity we generate.

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Speaker 2: Is our antibody immunity like long lasting? Can you get

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Speaker 2: reinfected with this?

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Speaker 1: We don't know. Are there different strains or like subtypes?

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Speaker 2: So there definitely are, Okay, there definitely are. And this

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Speaker 2: is actually a really important part of our push biology

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Speaker 2: that we do know.

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Speaker 1: Quite a bit about. Okay.

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Speaker 2: So, similar to flu viruses oropush viruses, are an RNA

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Speaker 2: virus that has a segmented genome, which means their genome

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Speaker 2: is not just like one piece of RNA, it's three

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Speaker 2: different chunks. They're named small, medium, in large, SM, and

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Speaker 2: L and similar to flu viruses, if a host like

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Speaker 2: say a sloth, is infected with two different strains of

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Speaker 2: this virus at the same time, it can lead to

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Speaker 2: a mixing up of different chunks of their genome and

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Speaker 2: result in a completely new version of this virus, often

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Speaker 2: one that is drastically different than either of the so

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Speaker 2: called parent viruses. There's actually a few other viruses that

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Speaker 2: have different names, Equito's virus, Madre de Dios virus, and

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Speaker 2: perdos virus. I might be pronouncing that one wrong, which

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Speaker 2: that one doesn't infect humans, but these contain parts of

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Speaker 2: the oropushe virus and then another segment from a related

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Speaker 2: virus in the same what we call zero group, the

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Speaker 2: same group of viruses. So yes, the fact that oropush

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Speaker 2: can recombine is a really important aspect of the like

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Speaker 2: virology of this virus, and we think it was probably

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Speaker 2: involved in the most recent outbreak that we saw twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four twenty twenty five, and we'll talk a little

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Speaker 2: bit more about that later in this.

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Speaker 1: Episode, changing virulence patterns and all of those things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and speaking of transmission, so this is a virus

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Speaker 2: that is transmitted via vectors, right via these biting midges.

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Speaker 2: There has not been shown so far any direct human

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Speaker 2: to human transmission, so even if you're sick and miserable,

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Speaker 2: you're not transmitting it to other people. However, similar to

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Speaker 2: zica virus, there is now evidence that our push can

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Speaker 2: be transmitted across the placenta, so if someone is infected

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Speaker 2: while they're pregnant, it can infect the fetus, and it's

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Speaker 2: been thought to be associated with a number of stillbirths,

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Speaker 2: fetal losses, so miscarriages, and things like microcephaly, which is

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Speaker 2: when the brain does not fully develop, similar to how

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Speaker 2: we saw with zicavirus. Unlike with zecavirus, we don't know

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Speaker 2: enough about the virology yet to understand what's going on

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Speaker 2: or how common or any of that. But epidemiologically, this

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Speaker 2: pattern seems to have come out of this most recent

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Speaker 2: outbreak that we've seen, and so we do think that

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Speaker 2: it's crossing the placenta and can cause damage to the fetus,

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Speaker 2: which is pretty serious.

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Speaker 1: But no sexually transmitted or great question. Great question.

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Speaker 2: At least one paper that I saw said that they

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Speaker 2: thought that they had detected it in semen. Does that

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Speaker 2: mean that it's able to be transmitted?

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Speaker 1: Right? We don't know. It's a huge open question, right, Okay, yep.

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Speaker 1: Question about the habits of these biting midges when you

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Speaker 1: know how like mosquitoes love down and dusk doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that they don't bite you in other times of day,

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Speaker 1: but like where do they bite you? When do they

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Speaker 1: bite you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Do I'm assuming because they are their larval stage develops

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Speaker 1: in water, that there's like a seasonal or climate component

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Speaker 1: to this what's going on?

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Speaker 2: You're very right, So there is definitely a seasonal and

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Speaker 2: climate component. So we see that the highest burden of

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Speaker 2: these of our push virus tends to be during rainy season,

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Speaker 2: and that's going to be when you have more water

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Speaker 2: available for larva to you know, mature and for the

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Speaker 2: females to lay their eggs and things like that. So

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Speaker 2: that's definitely the case. In terms of when exactly they bite,

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Speaker 2: they can potentially be kind of throughout the day. They

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Speaker 2: do tend to be done in dusk, similar to a

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Speaker 2: lot of some mosquito species. Not all mosquitoes are like that,

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Speaker 2: but like I said, because they can't bite through clothing,

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Speaker 2: they're going to tend to go towards areas that are

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Speaker 2: more available. So a lot of times they're biting on legs,

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Speaker 2: they're biting on arms, they're betting on things that they

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Speaker 2: can actually access, and they're really voracious.

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Speaker 1: Their bites hurt.

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Speaker 2: And then beyond that, there's probably more that either I

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Speaker 2: don't know or that we don't know yet about about

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Speaker 2: these vectors.

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Speaker 1: And maybe you're getting there in the current section. But

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Speaker 1: distribution geographic distribution of midge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So this species of midge is found throughout Central

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Speaker 2: and South America and throughout the southern part of North

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Speaker 2: America all the way up into like the eastern seaboard.

431
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 2: You can even find them sometimes in Michigan and Wisconsin

432
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 2: and things like that, and then all throughout the south

433
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 2: southern United States. Which is an important part of the

434
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: distribution of this virus so far is that this virus

435
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 2: has not been found everywhere, but the vector does exist

436
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: far beyond the range that we have seen the virus

437
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: so far.

438
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: Right, which just means potential for spread. Potential for spread, Yeah, exactly, yeah,

439
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: which is also I mean, I know that we'll get there,

440
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: but like the fact that this virus can infect so

441
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 1: many vertebrates, so many, it seems like, and we don't know,

442
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: we don't know.

443
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 2: We don't know the extent we from what we have

444
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: found so far, we think sloths, capuchins, howlers, and some birds,

445
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: but like birds is a huge category alone right now,

446
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 2: it's just fun.

447
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: It's Central and South America, I know, some of the

448
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: most biodiverse areas on this planet, right exactly.

449
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, so we don't we don't know, you know,

450
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 2: And who is playing the biggest role, who is involved

451
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 2: in the spillover events and why, Like we don't know any.

452
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: Of those things. We don't know. We don't know.

453
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: And as is the case for so many tropical especially

454
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 2: viral and other infectious diseases, diagnosis remains a really big

455
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: challenge and that severely limits our understanding of the true

456
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 2: epidemiology and spread of this because you can't diagnose it

457
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 2: without adequate identification, especially because the symptoms are so nonspecific

458
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 2: and they overlap so much with other diseases that are

459
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 2: in the same geographic areas, So you have to have

460
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 2: access to either serology or like PCR rtPCR, which isn't

461
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 2: available everywhere, especially in the range of where this virus

462
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,639
Speaker 2: is found. And as with so many other viral illnesses,

463
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 2: we have no specific treatment for it. We have no

464
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 2: vaccine and spoiler alert, no vaccines on the horizon that

465
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 2: I have seen, Like as of twenty twenty two, there

466
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 2: was like one paper about vaccine development for oro poosh virus.

467
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: So this is pretty neglected viral illness. Yeah, even though

468
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 2: it's not technically considered a neglected tropical disease yet, which

469
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 2: is wild.

470
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it is. It's really interesting to

471
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: read back through some of these outbreaks and epidemics and

472
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: it's like so much, so much a shot I don't

473
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: want to say shot in the dark, but like the

474
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: these estimates are based on the information that was available,

475
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: which is can be very often limited based on what

476
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: you said, how you have to have testing, you have

477
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: to have and because the virus itself is so tends

478
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: to cause these self limited infections. Someone's better in a

479
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,719
Speaker 1: few days. They may never you know, like right, they

480
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: may never know that they had or a push virus exactly. Yeah.

481
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so our estimates are very very limited, but

482
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: that aaron is or a push.

483
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: Can you tell me where it came from?

484
00:28:52,960 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 4: I can, I can okay.

485
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: On September twenty sixth, nineteen fifty five, a twenty four

486
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: year old man entered the fever clinic that was run

487
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: by the Trinidad Regional Virus Laboratory in Sangre Gerondi, Trinidad.

488
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: I love that there's a fever clinic. Oh, there'll just

489
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: I'll tell you more about it. He hadn't been feeling

490
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: ill for very long, just like one day, and his

491
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: symptoms weren't too extreme. He had just had a back

492
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: ache and a little cough, no sore throat, with the

493
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: exception of his fever, which was one hundred and four

494
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: degrees fahrenheit. Oh, pretty high, pretty high. I didn't write

495
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: that down in celsius, but it's high high thirty over

496
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: forty maybe over forty maybe forty. Yeah. He was referred

497
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: to this clinic, which was kind of standard practice at

498
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: the time, but his symptoms were so vague that it

499
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: was like, well, we don't really know what this could be.

500
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: Let's run some standard tests, which included, you know, looking

501
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: at blood smears under the microscope. There was one smear

502
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: that looked like maybe there was one single malaria parasite,

503
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: but it wasn't conclusive, and then people who looked at

504
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: it later were like, there's nothing here. So it was

505
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: kind of like, well, this guy got better really quickly.

506
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: His illness lasted three days total. In normal circumstances, like

507
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,239
Speaker 1: in many of the time, we would think that like

508
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: that person would fly under the radar and you're done

509
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: with that. That's not what happened. And in retrospect, it's

510
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: kind of amazing that he made it to the clinic

511
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: in the first place while that illness was still ongoing,

512
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: which meant that the doctors could the researchers there could

513
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: take blood samples while he was acutely ill, so then

514
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,959
Speaker 1: they could take that blood and run more tests on it.

515
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: So they took serum from that blood sample gave it

516
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: to mice who died, which suggested that a path gen

517
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: virus was involved. What virus was it? Like, this is

518
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: not this is this is concerning right, that's a great question.

519
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: It didn't seem to be one of the usual or

520
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: even one of the unusual suspects, and so it was

521
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: given a new name or a poosh virus. Yeah, why

522
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: or a poosh. Well, the man who had visited the

523
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: clinic that kicked off this pathoge and hunt, he lived

524
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: nearby in a small community called Vega Day or a Push,

525
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: So that's it's a place name. Yeah, where you're from.

526
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: This is yeah, it was before that became against the

527
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: you know, when it was right while naming diseases after

528
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: places was still a conventional thing to do, but subsequent

529
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 1: tests with the virus revealed that it could cause disease

530
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: in a range of animals like mice, guinea pigs, and

531
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: chicken embryos, so it definitely wasn't nothing to worry about.

532
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: Whether or not those animals could play a strong role

533
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: in it's spread is not clear, but just the fact

534
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: that it could cause disease and death in that right

535
00:31:59,320 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: is you.

536
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: Could have symptoms. And also they were just like culturing

537
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: this virus from this dude's serum this whole time.

538
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, I know, I know, he.

539
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: Just went to the best possible climate. Come yeah, I

540
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: mean he got better on his own, so I guess

541
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: think he got much for him.

542
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: But right right, they were running all these test finding

543
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: that it was indeed some sort of you know, previously

544
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 1: undescribed potentially pathogenic or seemingly pathogenic virus. Where did it

545
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: come from? And this was the question that the Trinidad

546
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 1: Regional Virus Laboratory was very motivated and equipped to answer.

547
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: The first clue came from the patient himself. Although he

548
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: resided in the village like most of the time vegadevo

549
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: or Pousche, for two weeks before his illness, he had

550
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: actually been working and sleeping in a forest a few

551
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: miles away where he worked as a charcoal burner. Okay,

552
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: so if you didn't know, I certainly did not. A

553
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: charcoal burner is someone who makes charcoal by burning a

554
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: bunch of woods, you know, deforested area chopped out a

555
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: bunch of trees. You burn those trees and you have

556
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: to stand by your your charcoal pit for weeks, often

557
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: on end, while the charcoal is being made. It's a long,

558
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: lonely job. There's even like a poem by the creator

559
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: I think of we need the pooh about it, like

560
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: how sad it is. And because you have to stay

561
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: by your charcoal pit in the woods around where no

562
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: one else is there. It's not like this is a

563
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: group activity. Oh Okay, and so learning that this guy

564
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: was a charcoal burner, it immediately set off red flags

565
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: for the researchers because they were like, Okay, you are

566
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: spending a lot of time in the forest. This suggests

567
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: that it's probably vector borne. There's probably a mosquito or

568
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: something else out there. This is a spillover event. I

569
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: love that they that that ough. I love this story,

570
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: Aaron keeping, and so they went out there. In the

571
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one paper that first describes as virus, quote,

572
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: when it became evident that an agent pathogenic for mice

573
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: had been isolated from a forest, steps were taken to

574
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: attempt recovery a virus from blood sucking diurnal insects prevalent

575
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: about the patient's home and charcoal pit in the forest. Reasonable.

576
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: Next story, very very and mostly as far as I

577
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: could tell, it was mosquito species that were collected, and

578
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 1: none of them seemed to be the clear culprit, although

579
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: it did suggest that there was, like I think in

580
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: a later collection. In a later paper, they found one

581
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: instance of the virus in a mosquito. So they were like, okay,

582
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: well that doesn't rule it out, but it's clearly not

583
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 1: mosquito's entirely. They did also do antibody testing in some

584
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: animals like primates, and they found that yes, some primates

585
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: seem to have been exposed to this virus previously, and

586
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: so this suggested that oropush virus was not uncommon in wildlife. Also,

587
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: they like developed an antibody test for it already. I know,

588
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: I'm amazed. I can't wait to tell you were okay

589
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: this was I will say, like it's you're amazed, right,

590
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: Like it's really cool to look at this, beautiful Like okay, logical,

591
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: next steps. You have the resources to look at this,

592
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: you understand what you're looking for all this stuff, right,

593
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: This was not front page news even in the world

594
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: of viruses because it was first of all, viruses are

595
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: very diverse. There are so many undiscovered viruses out there.

596
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: And this was one person this who had recovered quickly.

597
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: This was yeah, this was a handful of howler and

598
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: capuchin monkeys that showed past infection. Maybe an infected mosquito

599
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: or two. I mean, this was one of an untold

600
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: number of viruses circulating in wildlife that remained to be name.

601
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: It was like, who cares, Okay, so you found a

602
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: new virus right. It was like, thank you for recording

603
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: that information. Right, we'll add it to our list of

604
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: thousands of viruses, right, just like this. Yeah. And also

605
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: maybe it was a fluke. Maybe this was a one

606
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: time event that happened. And the next five years of

607
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: silence that surrounded this vires seemed to suggest that that

608
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: was actually the case, until it popped up again in

609
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty, this time in an entirely different country, over

610
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: one thousand miles away. Ooh, not good, not good, well intriguing, yeah,

611
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,240
Speaker 1: and not good. A three toad sloth in northern Brazil

612
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: was found to be infected with the virus in a

613
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: way kind of foreshadowing the sizeable epidemic that would occur

614
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 1: in the region in the following year. So in nineteen

615
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: sixty one, and estimated eleven thousand people were infected with

616
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: ore A push virus in the same region. Oh wow.

617
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: And so, as it turned out, no, yeah, that not

618
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: only was that first nineteen fifty five case not a

619
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: one off, this epidemic would also be just the first

620
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: in a series that occurred over the next decades, as

621
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: the virus spread to much of Central and South America

622
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: and especially throughout Brazil.

623
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: So, but they were able to identify it as or

624
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: a pushe virus because of the work of the people

625
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: who identified it.

626
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, nineteen fifty five. That's incredible. There's yeah, because of

627
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: this work, because of this network of information, this virus

628
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: was able to be name, described, identified, and linked to

629
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 1: an outbreak. That's it's pretty it's pretty impressive. It's very impressive. Yeah.

630
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: And over the next decades, I'm kind of like squeezing

631
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: a lot in here, the numbers kept climbing. So between

632
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight and nineteen eighty one and estimated two

633
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty thousand cases, thirty outbreaks along the Amazon

634
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: River between nineteen sixty one and nineteen ninety six, with

635
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,959
Speaker 1: an estimated half a million cases, and most of these

636
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: are in Brazil. And it wasn't just the number of

637
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,240
Speaker 1: cases that kept growing though, it was also the virus's

638
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: geographic distribution. First there was that case, the individual case

639
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: as far as we knew, in Trinidad. Then there was

640
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,479
Speaker 1: the outbreak in northern Brazil, then all along the Amazon River,

641
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: then in these non endemic regions of Brazil than in Panama, Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, Venezuela, Haiti, Colombia,

642
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: French Guyana. You just like, yeah, Guatemala, Cuba, on and on, just.

643
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: To all of these, all of these places, by the way,

644
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 2: that don't all touch and are not all that close

645
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 2: geographically necessarily.

646
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: Some of these cases are you know, whether or not

647
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: this indicates local spread. I'll let you answer that later on.

648
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: But the increasing number of countries that are reporting this

649
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: virus at all shows two things. It shows that the

650
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: potential for increased geographic spread, and it also shows an

651
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: increased awareness becauset better detection and awareness might be driving

652
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: some of this because for decades or a pooshe virus

653
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: cases were probably wrongly ascribed to dengey or like outbreaks.

654
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: So like how many of the past and gay outbreaks

655
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: were actually or pooh, could it r mix this kind

656
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 1: of stuff or checking don yet like they're all so

657
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: they're all so kind of similar. Yeah, but there's there

658
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: is no doubt that this disease is on the move

659
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: and it might actually be evolving to become more virulent,

660
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: you know some recent cases, or it has the potential

661
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: to become more virulent. Given what you told us, Aaron

662
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: about the virus's characteristics. You know, it's high mutation or

663
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: recombination rate, multiple insect vector hosts, and multiple vertebrate reservoirs.

664
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: This is not entirely surprising that we're seeing this kind

665
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: of spread, but it is concerning and it begs a

666
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: few questions. Where did this thing come from? Again? And

667
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: how is it spreading so quickly? H And why was

668
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: anyone looking for viruses and sloths in the first place? Yeah,

669
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 1: that's what I want to know.

670
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 2: Who tasted that slothyting that slot?

671
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to answer the first two questions. First,

672
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 1: I could do this pretty quickly, or a push virus

673
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: probably originated in Brazil anywhere from Prepare yourself for a

674
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: wide range. Wide range here eighty to three hundred and

675
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: sixty years ago. Smaller range than we have for a

676
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: lot of other things.

677
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: Wait wait, wait, eighty to three hundred and sixty Yeah.

678
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: Wow, so it's super new, super new three it's the

679
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: oldest they think it is is in the hundreds of years. Okay,

680
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: but here's here's the thing that I I kind of

681
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: have questions about because we talked about how it has

682
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: these different like the segment to genome with a lot

683
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: of reassortment, and so our existing data is like the

684
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: diversity of these viruses is maybe not reflective of the

685
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: overall history. I'm not sure, but I was thinking about

686
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 1: how flu we have complete extinct viral lineages right right right,

687
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: So whether.

688
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 2: That's called those different viruses or would we Yeah, it

689
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 2: is because the zero group that or a push belongs

690
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 2: to is called the Simbu zero group. And I had

691
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 2: a really hard time sorting through, like are these different genotypes?

692
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: Are these different viruses?

693
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 2: Are these different and there are a number that they

694
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 2: classify as different viruses even though they are quite similar.

695
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, it is.

696
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 2: It is a confusing phylogeny of that whole group, including

697
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 2: or a poosh virus, So that I guess makes sense

698
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 2: in that way. So like the Simbu zero group is

699
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: probably much older, but or a poosh itself, who knows.

700
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 4: I don't know.

701
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I do think that it's

702
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: like there are viruses that emerge or evolve, and when

703
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: when does a new virus become a new virus? I

704
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: think is a that's a question.

705
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 3: For a virologist philosophical question too, or a philosopher, sure,

706
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 3: but I think that whenever it originated, it has seemed

707
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 3: to expand relatively recently, like it's only in the last

708
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 3: few decades that it's expanded across the most of South

709
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 3: America and Central America.

710
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: Why it has done so is because of humans. Bottom line,

711
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: deforestation and widespread movement of humans created the perfect conditions

712
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 1: for aur poosh virus spillover and spread as forests were

713
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: cut down. That led to more opportunities for infected mosquitoes

714
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: to bite the humans living on the forest edges. So like,

715
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: think about the construction of that highway highway and then

716
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: increased movement for humans, both short scale like from deforested

717
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 1: region to city and then long scale from one city

718
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: to another region or another country drove the spread of

719
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: this virus. So consider, if you will, the sequence of events.

720
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: Someone is working on the construction of a road through

721
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 1: a newly deforestd region of the Amazon, for instance, like

722
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: the road that we discussed in our first hand One day,

723
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: they're bitten by a midge that's infected with or push virus.

724
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: A few days later, they take their day off to

725
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: drive back to their nearby city to visit with some

726
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: friends and family. There, a midge bites them, picks up

727
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: the virus. That midge then bites someone else, infecting them.

728
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: Another midge bites that person, and suddenly you've got an

729
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: epidemic on your hands. This is how one spillover event

730
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: can lead to sizeable outbreaks. And the story doesn't end there.

731
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,879
Speaker 1: So now, let's say somebody else was in town during

732
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 1: this outbreak, and they also happened to be working on

733
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: road construction in a newly deforested area, but in another

734
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: part of the country or another country entirely where or

735
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: push virus is not present. They get infected during this

736
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: city outbreak, head back to their work site, where another

737
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: midge bites them, becomes infected, then bites a sloth or

738
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: a howler monkey, Another midge or a mosquito picks up

739
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: the virus, and then suddenly or a pushes endemic in

740
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: this new forested region. This is spillback, spill it over,

741
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: spill back into two wildlife. Spill bat doesn't get talked

742
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: about enough.

743
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 2: I feel, no, it doesn't, It really doesn't. But yeah,

744
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 2: it's an important part.

745
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: It is a really important part, and I wanted to

746
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 1: mention before I forget that I'm wearing my spillover. I'm

747
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 1: gonna call it my spillover sweater today. Yep, it's got

748
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: If you're watching on YouTube, you can see this. It's

749
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:12,720
Speaker 1: got a woodpecker, it's very cute, and some little squirrels, squirrels,

750
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: it's very cute, so cute. So it's from now on,

751
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: anytime we do another Oh, I've got it. I've got it,

752
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: cuts down on decision making. It's wonderful, fantastic spillover in

753
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 1: spillback for aur a poosh virus, they're not just like

754
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: likely to happen, but there they have happened, and they

755
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: are likely to result in sustained transmission or turning an

756
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: uninfected area into an endemic one. And this is for

757
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 1: for all the things that we've already talked about, right,

758
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: the wide host range, the recombination multiple potential different species

759
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: of vectors. We don't really know. I mean, this virus

760
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: is like it has never heard of a dead end host.

761
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: It's just like, so what it seems like, what's the

762
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: It's all about those borders between humans and wildlife becoming

763
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: more porous due to human activities like deforestation. In fact,

764
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 1: deforestation in the Amazon rainforest in Brazil from the nineteen

765
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: fifties to the nineteen eighties coincided with two hundred arboviruses

766
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: being discovered in the region. So oropush is not the exception,

767
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 1: but it is rather the rule. In fact, roughly seventy

768
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 1: five percent of all emerging infectious diseases have an animal origin,

769
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 1: and seventy percent of those come from wildlife. Yeah, wildlife.

770
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 1: I've got some good stats too, got so good.

771
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 3: That's yeah, wildlife like the sloth, who is the subject

772
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 3: of our third question.

773
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: Why were people looking at sloth viruses?

774
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 3: Anyway?

775
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 1: I love that someone funded this, so give it to me. Okay, Okay, So,

776
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 1: given what I just said about the high proportion of

777
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: human pathogens that come from animals, maybe the answer is

778
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: self evident, like why someone was looking at a sloth well,

779
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 1: because wildlife can carry viruses. But I want to dig

780
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: a bit deeper, exploring not only why researchers were examining

781
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: wildlife for new pathogens in the mid twentieth century, but

782
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: also the infrastructure that allowed them to do so. Both

783
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: the first described case of our poush virus and this

784
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: isolation from a three toad sloth took place at two

785
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: viral research institutes, one in Trinidad and one in northern Brazil.

786
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: Both of these institutes, the Trinidad Regional Virus Laboratory and

787
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 1: the Belem Virus Laboratory, were established and funded at least

788
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 1: in part by the Rockefeller Foundation in the mid twentieth century. Okay, interesting,

789
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: we've encountered the Rockefeller Foundation before on this podcast, maybe

790
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: most notably during our hookworm episode. The organization, which was

791
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: started by one of the wealthiest people in history, it

792
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: played a pivotal role in eliminating hookworm in the early

793
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds in the southern US. Or at least that

794
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: If that part is controversial or for debate, sure that's fine.

795
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: What it did is it at least elucidated some of

796
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: the factors that sustained its transmission, and over the following decades,

797
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: the Foundation broadened its goals beyond the US. Its mandate,

798
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: as set out in nineteen oh nine, was quote to

799
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 1: promote the well being and to advance the civilization of

800
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: the peoples of the United States and its territories and possessions,

801
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: and of foreign lands, in the acquisition and dissemination of knowledge,

802
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: in the prevention and relief of suffering, and in the

803
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: promotion of any and all of the elements of human

804
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: progress end quote. Okay, it's a notable goal. Yeah. I

805
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: wish more billionaires would take up philanthropy instead of the

806
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: other alternatives. Yeah, yeah, But I think it would be

807
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 1: incomplete to view this foundation or the field of tropical

808
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:55,760
Speaker 1: medicine as a whole, as solely philanthropic, whether in intent

809
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: or impact. Philanthropy was part of it, but it was

810
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: not all. Why were people trying to better understand how

811
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: yellow fever was transmitted or how to prevent leshmaniasis in

812
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: part the Panama Canal exactly so that imperialist powers like

813
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,959
Speaker 1: the US and England could install local governments without people

814
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: dying of infection. Infectious disease in these regions became the

815
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 1: first hurdle to overcome in you know, settlement, whatever that meant, like,

816
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 1: you must first conquer infectious diseases before you can conquer

817
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: this nation. Scientific and medical knowledge may have benefited the

818
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: populations under imperialism, it did not always, and if it did,

819
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: it often came. Those benefits came much later on, and

820
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: it came with tremendous costs. That knowledge was not freely shared,

821
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: and in some cases it wasn't shared at all. The

822
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 1: colonizers were often the only ones to benefit from that

823
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: knowledge or have the capacity to implement it. Oh, screens

824
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 1: prevent mosquitoes, which could then prevent yellow fever. Put those

825
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: screens in our houses, our houses. Yeah, clean water screens,

826
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: bugsprit medications, stuff like that. That was not like, oh,

827
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: and then now here it is everyone. He was not

828
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: in the age of imperialism from the late eighteen hundreds,

829
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: so the early nineteen hundreds, scientific progress was not democratized,

830
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: and the concurrent rise of germ theory enabled the use

831
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: of tropical medicine as a tool of imperialism. The Rockefeller

832
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: Foundation which emerged as this period was winding down. As

833
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 1: the age of imperialism was winding down, it seemed from

834
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: my reading, less focused on conquer and more on capitalism,

835
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: which is unsurprising given Rockefeller's prowess as a businessman. He

836
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: saw progress, particularly economic progress, as viewed from a capitalistic

837
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: Western perspective. He saw this progress as being hindered by

838
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,760
Speaker 1: poor health. It wasn't just that life was being cut short,

839
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: it was also labor and productivity. Similar to how today

840
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 1: we use the metric disability adjusted life years to measure

841
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: the impact of a disease, right, Rockefellers saw that improving

842
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 1: the overall health of a region through public health interventions

843
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: would ultimately lead to greater economic prosperity, which was great

844
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: if the region was under the control of the US,

845
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 1: but if it wasn't, then that also meant more money

846
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,919
Speaker 1: to be pumped into the global capitalism machine, which predominantly

847
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: benefited Western imperialist powers. So it's kind of a yes

848
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: and situation. Yeah, So the virus labs and other Rockefeller

849
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: initiatives absolutely reduce the overall disease burden in certain areas,

850
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: and they advanced scientific and medical knowledge and the US

851
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: and probably Rockefeller and his descendants enjoyed some of the

852
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: economic benefits from those efforts. Maybe that feels like a

853
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: touch cynical or something.

854
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 2: I mean, but we've always said like how much money

855
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 2: you save with public health and how investment in public

856
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 2: health is. Like it's just like it's a clear example

857
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 2: of someone having enough money to do that, which is

858
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 2: really interesting, fits.

859
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: Simple, right, And it's like it's kind of one of

860
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: these things where it's like we're money or public health

861
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 1: is money saving, it's not revenue generating, right, And so

862
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: investment in public health ultimately is like the smartest thing

863
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: that you can do as an economic power. Are billionaires

864
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: listening right, right? And so it's like, Okay, if we

865
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: can't convince you to do this out of the good

866
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: you know, good for mankind, just to have a leave

867
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 1: a legacy that means something more than just consumer and

868
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: profiting off of whatever, right, all of that, then let

869
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: us convince you because it makes more financial sense to

870
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: do so it will eventually save us a lot of money. Yeah, yeah,

871
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 1: but it still feels like it still feels a little

872
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: bit cynical. And so I also, I don't know. I

873
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 1: wanted to also add that I think that the researchers

874
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: and probably the organizers the administrators of this foundation who

875
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 1: were involved and wanted to take part in these efforts,

876
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 1: I think that they probably or possibly had good intentions,

877
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: like the purest of intentions. Right. Maybe they went into

878
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: this field to reduce human suffering, to devise new vaccines,

879
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: to identify pathogens, or simply just add to this body

880
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 1: of knowledge to help make the world a better place.

881
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 2: Well, and like a bunch of nerds getting to actually

882
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 2: do this important science, Like.

883
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? It's the dream, and it's not

884
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: like local populations where these labs were established were just

885
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 1: like passive players. Many citizens and regional governments became directly

886
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: involved in primary research as well as the application of

887
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 1: that knowledge and in funding. It was often like meeting

888
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 1: the funding need. Yeah. From nineteen fifty to nineteen seventy,

889
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: the Rockefeller Foundation provided the arbovirus program with thirty million

890
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,960
Speaker 1: dollars in funding, which is worth about two hundred and

891
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: thirty million dollars in today's and many local governments directly

892
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: matched that funding. Wow, it's it's kind of staggering when

893
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: you think about what a force that must have been

894
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 1: and how investment in basic research really has pays off.

895
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 1: It pays off.

896
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 2: I just still can't get over the fact that they

897
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 2: found this virus from one dude, and then within a

898
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 2: couple of years we're able to identify outbreaks that easily.

899
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 2: I mean, how many times have you told a story

900
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 2: on this podcast, Aaron where it's like, yeah, someone found

901
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: this virus and named it, but then decades later, someone

902
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 2: else found this virus and they thought they were the

903
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 2: first person ever to identify it.

904
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 1: Like that's usually how these stories go. It's usually how

905
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 1: it goes. I think part of it has to do

906
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: with when this like the historical context of when this

907
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 1: was happening, and so in a lot of those cases

908
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 1: there was not the technology or the scientific know how

909
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 1: to be like, this is a virus at.

910
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: All, right, or to be able to share that information.

911
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 2: We'll share the information, yeah yeah.

912
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: So I think this was sort of a confluence of

913
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: we have the equipment to do this, we have the

914
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 1: minds to do this, we have the funding, and we

915
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: have this this network of information that can be spread

916
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: and the incentive to identify this like, hey, here's this money,

917
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: find out what you can about.

918
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 2: About arboviruses, and so that's what they were doing with

919
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 2: this sloth. But they were like, we've got money to

920
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 2: find viruses, and so we're going to test a bunch

921
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 2: of animals anywhere. Oh yeah yeah, but that was my

922
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: dream job for TI.

923
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: So these Rockefeller Foundation virus laboratories were established initially to

924
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: keep better track of the yellow fever virus, which had

925
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: caused deadly outbreaks in Central and South America in the

926
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: early decades of the twentieth century and had hindered the

927
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: US progress in building the Panama Canal check out our

928
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: yellow fever episode. It also had been in the US

929
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,720
Speaker 1: for a long time. Blah blah blah. Yeah, anyway, Hamilton

930
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 1: Hamilton Field Laboratories were established not just in Trinidad and Brazil,

931
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: but also Egypt, India, South Africa, Nigeria and Colombia. And

932
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: as researchers uncovered more information about the ecology of yellow fever,

933
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: its mosquito vector, its vertebrate hosts, how climate induced its transmission,

934
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 1: two things happened, at least. The first was that in

935
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 1: their ecological studies of yellow fever, they were also finding

936
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: other arthropod born viruses that had never been described. You know,

937
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: test this mosquito, screen, this monkey, sloth, etc. Oh, that's

938
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 1: something we haven't seen before. Let's dig a little bit deeper.

939
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: The second is that they were leveraging their knowledge about

940
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 1: yellow fever to make meaningful, sustained progress in its control.

941
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: If you could make such headway against a long feared,

942
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: deadly disease, maybe you could do the same for these

943
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:45,320
Speaker 1: new viruses that you were finding. Identify the arthropod vectors,

944
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,720
Speaker 1: figure out which vertebrates act as reservoir host, measure affection

945
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,880
Speaker 1: against climatic or seasonal variables and then use all that

946
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 1: information to disrupt the chain of transmission and prevent disease.

947
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 1: Even though it wasn't called that at the time, this

948
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: embodies a one health approach where animal, human, and environmental

949
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: health are all taken into consideration. Historically, after the early

950
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: years of germ theory and epidemiology, where animals and the

951
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 1: environment were more likely to feature in studies alongside human disease,

952
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 1: these different fields were often siloed so like there was

953
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: pre germ theory, it was like, oh, the weather has turned,

954
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,439
Speaker 1: this might lead to an outbreak of plague, you know

955
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Once we found one bacteria, one disease,

956
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: that sort of segmented segmenting, chopping up these diseases into

957
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 1: discrete entities. That also meant that specialties were also segmented

958
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,319
Speaker 1: and siloed, like a biomedical researcher wasn't necessarily inclined to

959
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: observe a disease under natural conditions. If a lab environment

960
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,280
Speaker 1: and an experimental animal could suffice like you could control

961
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: the ecological noise much better that way, and collaborations between

962
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: physicians and veterinarians dwind as the fields grew more specialized

963
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 1: who's got the time? Or you would have to learn

964
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: a lot more about like a horse's guts than you

965
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: were prepared to. One area, though, that resisted such rigid

966
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 1: boundaries among disciplines was that of medical entomology and tropical medicine.

967
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 2: Oh love that, And these.

968
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 1: Were the two areas in which the Rockefeller Foundation was

969
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: heavily involved. How could you predict the movement of a

970
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: mosquito born virus without considering the mosquito itself, right, you.

971
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 2: Cannot, and all the other things they're feeding on, and

972
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 2: their environment and where they're living, and yes, how hot

973
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 2: it is and how long it takes for their larmy

974
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 2: to develop, and how long they live.

975
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: And it's the environment, it's the wildlife, it's the domestic animals,

976
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: it's humans, it's all of these things.

977
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

978
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: So the Rockefeller Virus Labs, staffed as they were by

979
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: researchers interested in cycles of infectious disease and natural environments,

980
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: they were well positioned to ask and answer these questions

981
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: of what about the mosquito, what about the wildlife? What

982
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: about the environment, what about the climate and the weather,

983
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: And so hopefully that answers the question of why people

984
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 1: were looking at sloth viruses in the first place. This

985
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: one health approach is not just one lens through which

986
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: to view a disease like or a push fever. It's

987
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: the only lens that we should be looking at this right. Fortunately,

988
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: that is the framework that many researchers are using today

989
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: to better understand what this virus might have in store

990
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: for the future. Speaking of the future, Erin, could you

991
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 1: tell me where we stand with or a push virus today?

992
00:58:38,400 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 2: I would love to, Erin. I have some stats to

993
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 2: start you off with GAT. It's very similar to some

994
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 2: of the ones that you hit us with ARIN. According

995
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 2: to a paper from twenty twenty four in the Lancet,

996
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 2: Infectious Diseases, vector born disease specifically, vector born diseases account

997
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 2: for nearly twenty nine percent of all emerging infectious diseases.

998
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 2: Of all emerging infects disease are vector born and arboviruses specifically,

999
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 2: so viral vector diseases are forty percent of all pathogenic

1000
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 2: viruses found in humans from the late eighteen hundreds through

1001
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 2: twenty ten.

1002
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I feel like I'm doing

1003
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: a research for my dissertation.

1004
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 2: I know, and it is it is bringing me back

1005
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 2: in a way that I didn't realize how much I

1006
00:59:55,520 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 2: missed this. The true burden of arboviral diseases is not

1007
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 2: known period. However, we do know that over the last

1008
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 2: several decades the global burden has been increasing, not decreasing. Yeah,

1009
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 2: and or a push virus. I am just so shocked

1010
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 2: that I did not know about this. Like when we

1011
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 2: were in grad school, I had not heard of or

1012
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 2: a push virus, which is so weird because we were

1013
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 2: so deep in this world.

1014
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: Well, I think that also just shows silos again, Like again,

1015
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't directly applicable to our readings and our research exactly.

1016
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 2: It is and has been considered one of the most

1017
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 2: prevalent arboviruses, where it's documented second only to dengay virus.

1018
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: It's very prevalent.

1019
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 2: It's very very prevalent. We think that there has been

1020
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 2: at least half a million cases, at least five hundred

1021
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 2: thousand cases, and that is almost certainly an underestimate because

1022
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 2: of so much of what you talked about, Aaron, that like,

1023
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 2: we didn't know until we were able to identify this,

1024
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 2: we didn't know that it existed. How many times between

1025
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 2: then and before then and now has this been misidentified

1026
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 2: as malaria, as dengae, as zika, as chicken gunya, as

1027
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 2: so many other viral illnesses. But even as of twenty seventeen,

1028
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 2: the research at least to that time had suggested that

1029
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 2: it was only found in a few countries which were

1030
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 2: not all geographically that close, because by then twenty seventeen

1031
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 2: paper it was like Panama, Brazil, Peru, Trinidad and Tobago,

1032
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 2: and that's not the entire the entirety of its range.

1033
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 2: And we know now from the most recent outbreaks that

1034
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 2: that is definitely not the entirety of its range. We

1035
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 2: also know from a few more recent outbreaks that the

1036
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 2: attack rate of this virus, so if it gets into

1037
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 2: a community, how many people isn't likely to infect might

1038
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 2: be quite high.

1039
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: Seems like it. It seems like it.

1040
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 2: There was an outbreak in twenty twenty in French Guiana

1041
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 2: where about forty three percent at least of a population

1042
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 2: was infected in one outbreak. And there haven't been that

1043
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 2: many sero prevalence studies, but the ones that have been

1044
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 2: done in Colombia and Brazil have found between ten and

1045
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 2: sixteen percent of people in the regions that they've studied

1046
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 2: show evidence of prior infection with oropusch virus.

1047
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:26,560
Speaker 1: Wow, I know, I know.

1048
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:29,920
Speaker 2: But the biggest news with Ora pouch virus, and the

1049
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 2: reason that we started getting email requests for this back

1050
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four, is that there was a very

1051
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 2: very large multi country outbreak that spanned really it started

1052
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 2: in like the end of twenty twenty three, but especially

1053
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five, that spread across

1054
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 2: at least eleven countries, including Bolivia, Brazil, Colombia, Cuba, Ecuador, Guyana, Panama, Peru,

1055
01:02:55,200 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 2: and with travel associated cases in the US, Canada, Cayman Islands,

1056
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 2: and multiple country trees in Europe. By the end of

1057
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, there had been over sixteen thousand confirmed

1058
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 2: cases thirty nine thousand suspected cases, and that was not

1059
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 2: the end of the outbreak, because in twenty twenty five,

1060
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:21,520
Speaker 2: an additional thirteen thousand confirmed cases were reported across the

1061
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 2: Americas and another seventeen thousand suspected cases were identified that year.

1062
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 2: And like we talked about in terms of the seasonality

1063
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 2: of this, the vast majority, like we saw several kind

1064
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 2: of outbreak waves. If you look at the graphs. The

1065
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 2: Pan American Health Organization PAHO has a really great you

1066
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 2: can go in and look like month by month and

1067
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 2: look at these graphs of all of these reported cases.

1068
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 2: But the vast majority of these cases were in the

1069
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 2: rainy seasons, which kind of do vary depending on where

1070
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 2: you are. This is a very large range geographically, from

1071
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 2: like the mid Central America and the Caribbean all the

1072
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:02,240
Speaker 2: way into South America. But the outbreak seemed to kind

1073
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 2: of wane by June July of twenty twenty five, and

1074
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 2: since then there have just been sort of sporadic reports.

1075
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 2: It seems like that particular outbreak is over, but was

1076
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 2: incredibly large. It won't be the last, no, absolutely not.

1077
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 2: And in those two years some really big changes also

1078
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 2: seem to have happened with our poosh, not just how

1079
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:26,240
Speaker 2: much more widespread this was, right we saw it in

1080
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 2: countries like Cuba, where we didn't even know that this

1081
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 2: vector species existed. It has now been found in Cuba.

1082
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 2: But when the first cases appeared, people were like, what

1083
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 2: the heck is vectoring it in Cuba? Culicoid's parentsis doesn't

1084
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 2: exist there. Maybe it does, or maybe it was a

1085
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 2: different vector species it's still a little bit unclear, okay.

1086
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 2: But so the geographic spread was astonishing in that it

1087
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 2: was in so many places that we had not previously

1088
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 2: seen it. We also saw the first ever reported deaths

1089
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 2: from our A pooh virus. In twenty twenty four. There

1090
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 2: were two deaths reported, both of them from Brazil, and

1091
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 2: the last majority of these cases were in Brazil across

1092
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 2: both of these years, twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five.

1093
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty four, there were two deaths in Brazil,

1094
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 2: both in two otherwise young women in their twenties, healthy

1095
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 2: with not any known conditions that would put them at

1096
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 2: high risk. And in twenty twenty five there were six

1097
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:23,919
Speaker 2: additional deaths, five in Brazil and one in Panama. And

1098
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 2: that does not count the miscarriages or pregnancy losses and

1099
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 2: still births which we saw that we think were associated

1100
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:33,480
Speaker 2: with Ora push virus, or the congenital malformations that we

1101
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:36,680
Speaker 2: think might be associated so microcephaly and the lack of

1102
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 2: brain development that we have seen in a handful of

1103
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:43,720
Speaker 2: cases as well. Yeah, so huge changes that we saw

1104
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 2: with Ora push virus in the last couple of years

1105
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:52,480
Speaker 2: compared to anything that we had seen previously. Why we

1106
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 2: don't really have great answers. There was Elminho years during

1107
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 2: some of that time, and so we think that, you know,

1108
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 2: the seasonality and the increase in rainfall and things are

1109
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 2: likely associated with that particular outbreak and will be in

1110
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:08,640
Speaker 2: the future.

1111
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 1: Right, just higher numbers of midges for exactly.

1112
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 2: Exactly, And like I said, there are still questions to

1113
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 2: be answered about what was different about this particular viral strain,

1114
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 2: but it does seem like the almost all the cases

1115
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four to twenty five, these large outbreaks

1116
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 2: were from this kind of novel reassortment where we saw

1117
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 2: a virus that looks quite different than or a push

1118
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 2: viruses that we have seen in the past. And so

1119
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 2: that and how big of a role that played, and

1120
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 2: what about this novel reassortment made it so that this

1121
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 2: outbreak could happen, We still don't know, but it is

1122
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 2: very likely that that played at least part of a role.

1123
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 2: In addition to the vectors and the rainfall and the

1124
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 2: climate and the deforestation and the travel and the globalization

1125
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 2: and all of.

1126
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,919
Speaker 1: The past that play. I feel like some things are

1127
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 1: could be If you're thinking about this in terms of

1128
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: like a fire, right, some things are the matches and

1129
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 1: some things are the kindling. Yeah, and so it's like,

1130
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 1: what the El Nino year is not the match, but

1131
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 1: it's the kindling, you know, like that that kind of stuff. Yeah,

1132
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: I'm curious for the genetic diversity of these viruses in

1133
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: that outbreak was all the same.

1134
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 2: As far as I could tell, it does seem to

1135
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 2: be kind of all this big novel reassortment that is

1136
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 2: quite different than any of the other or push viruses

1137
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 2: that we've seen in the past.

1138
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: Okay, we have covered a lot of mosquito born and

1139
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,919
Speaker 1: arboviruses on this podcast, and there are many, many, many

1140
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 1: more out there that we have not covered. And I

1141
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 1: think sometimes the number just like the sheer diversity of

1142
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 1: sort of like how I was like, well, this is

1143
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 1: not the or A push is not the exception. It's

1144
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 1: the rule. Can paradoxically make you go, oh, well, then

1145
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 1: there are so many like whatever, but or a poosh

1146
01:07:56,280 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 1: is it is exceptional in many ways, in its its

1147
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 1: ability to spread, in its vector prevalence and distribution, and

1148
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:12,160
Speaker 1: in the increasing frequency, and just sort of also the

1149
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: fact that like we're not I worry that the that

1150
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:18,919
Speaker 1: we all have maybe a little bit of headline fatigue

1151
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:21,360
Speaker 1: when it comes to things like this, and it's like

1152
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:24,639
Speaker 1: this inclination to go, oh, it's just an exaggeration or whatever,

1153
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:28,679
Speaker 1: but like, no, I really these things will continue to happen.

1154
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 2: Yep.

1155
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: Modern medicine won't prevent us if it's not if it's

1156
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: not able to be accessed and not shared equitably, right yeah, yeah, And.

1157
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 2: I mean we still from what I can tell, it's

1158
01:08:42,160 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 2: not like this has led to a huge boost in

1159
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:46,840
Speaker 2: or A push funding and now we have all these

1160
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 2: vaccines on the horizon. There's not there's none, there's nothing,

1161
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 2: there's I.

1162
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 1: Mean, I certainly don't see that happening with this administration.

1163
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:58,000
Speaker 2: So definitely not Yeah, yeah, no, it's uh. I think

1164
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 2: or a Push is another example of so many that

1165
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 2: we have seen of these will just keep coming. Viruses

1166
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:09,720
Speaker 2: will just keep coming, They will keep spilling over. We

1167
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 2: will keep seeing new ones and.

1168
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 1: The end great stuff.

1169
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:19,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, We've got lots of people want to read

1170
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:22,719
Speaker 2: more about or a push virus.

1171
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: We do, Okay, So I there was a paper from

1172
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four that I really liked. It was by

1173
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:33,719
Speaker 1: Tilston Linnell from twenty twenty four or a push virus

1174
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,640
Speaker 1: and emerging Ortho bunya virus. That was great. There were

1175
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 1: a few more there were. Honestly, I have a lot

1176
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 1: of a lot of papers if you're interested in reading

1177
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:44,920
Speaker 1: more about sort of like the Rockefeller and public health

1178
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: imperialism perspective. There's a paper from nineteen seventy six by

1179
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:53,040
Speaker 1: Brown titled public Health and Imperialism Early Rockefeller Programs at

1180
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:56,280
Speaker 1: Home and Abroad. And then finally, I just want to

1181
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: recommend these papers because it was really interesting to think

1182
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 1: about the on health and where did this where did

1183
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,719
Speaker 1: this idea come from? From Anchetta at All From twenty

1184
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:08,679
Speaker 1: twenty one, there are two papers, the Origins and Lineage

1185
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 1: of One Health Part one and Part two. Love it about.

1186
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:13,799
Speaker 1: I also had a number of papers.

1187
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 2: One from twenty seventeen by d Rosa at All from

1188
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:18,799
Speaker 2: the American Journal of Tropical Medicine Hygiene.

1189
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: I really liked.

1190
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 2: That was called Aura push virus Clinical Epimological and molecular

1191
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:26,679
Speaker 2: aspects of a neglected Ortho Bunya virus or bunia virus

1192
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. There was also a review from the

1193
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 2: Lancet Infectious Diseases from twenty twenty four by Wesselman at all.

1194
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 1: The it was.

1195
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 2: Titled Yeah, that was a good one. That was a

1196
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 2: good one, Emergence of Aura push fever in Latin America,

1197
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 2: a narrative review. And then if you want more detail

1198
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,719
Speaker 2: on this novel reassortment, there was a Nature Medicine article

1199
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 2: from twenty twenty four by Noveca or Novesa at all

1200
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 2: titled human outbreaks of a novel reassortment or a push

1201
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 2: virus in the Brazilian Amazon Region. And then I also

1202
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:57,519
Speaker 2: want to shout out one that was more focused on

1203
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 2: the vectors themselves by Galley Choate. I'm probably pronouncying that

1204
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:05,719
Speaker 2: wrong and I'm really sorry, And it was from plast

1205
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:08,600
Speaker 2: Neglected Topical Diseases that was called vector Competence for or

1206
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,520
Speaker 2: a PUSHFIREUS, A systematic review of pre twenty twenty four experiments.

1207
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:14,480
Speaker 2: It was it was a really good one.

1208
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: It's like we don't know anything, I know. I mean,

1209
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like, despite the fact that we've

1210
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 1: kept saying, well, we don't we know, we don't know,

1211
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,120
Speaker 1: it's understudied to understuded people. A lot of people have

1212
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:24,600
Speaker 1: done a lot of great work on it, and so

1213
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: check out these papers totally. There's a lot. There is

1214
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 1: a lot there. We just we still don't know the comparative.

1215
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 2: To other viral and arboviral illnesses. This has not gotten

1216
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 2: the cell attention or recent reasons funding that it deserves.

1217
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay. Thank you to Bloodmobile for providing the

1218
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:44,560
Speaker 1: music for this episode in all of our episodes.

1219
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:47,679
Speaker 2: Thank you to Tom and Leanna and Pete and everyone

1220
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,759
Speaker 2: at exactly Right for everything you need to make this possible.

1221
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,839
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. Thank you to anyone who enjoys

1222
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:57,559
Speaker 1: this podcast in any way or participates or partakes or whatever.

1223
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:01,439
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, thank you, and especially thank you to our

1224
01:12:01,479 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 2: patrons for your support over on Patreon. It really really

1225
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:05,240
Speaker 2: does mean a lot to us.

1226
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 1: It does. It does U. Until next time, wash your

1227
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 1: hands you feelthy animals