WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Pauline Storment (Archive Episode) 0:00:46.480 --> 0:00:51.961 School of Humans. Helen got Murder Line actively investigates cold 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:55.361 case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 0:00:55.401 --> 0:00:58.761 witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:02.961 be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 0:01:03.001 --> 0:01:06.160 from family and community members, their statements should not be 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.961 considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 0:01:10.041 --> 0:01:14.000 inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:17.160 presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 0:01:17.961 --> 0:01:20.840 Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 0:01:21.041 --> 0:01:23.601 that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 0:01:24.121 --> 0:01:27.121 is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.320 It was April twelfth, nineteen seventy one. A twenty seven 0:01:33.401 --> 0:01:36.560 year old woman named Pauline Stormant was walking down South 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.721 Duncan Avenue in Fayetteville, Arkansas, just a few blocks from 0:01:39.761 --> 0:01:43.681 her apartment. She didn't know that someone was following her 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:47.681 in the darkness. Pauline worked two part time jobs. One 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.241 is a cashier at the Malco Theater and another as 0:01:50.281 --> 0:01:53.241 a secretary at the ROTC Center on the University of 0:01:53.281 --> 0:01:57.201 Arkansas campus. Pauline had recently started going back to school 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:00.361 as a mature student. She enrolled as a sophomore at 0:02:00.401 --> 0:02:02.921 the University of Arkansas at Fayetble, where she was a 0:02:02.921 --> 0:02:07.561 social welfare major. Pauline had a roommate, Alice pat Murphy. 0:02:08.921 --> 0:02:13.641 Pat later told the authorities that Pauline wasn't dating anyone. Actually, 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.081 Pauline spent most of her free time hitting the books. 0:02:16.401 --> 0:02:18.841 She was very focused on school work, which meant that 0:02:18.921 --> 0:02:22.361 she was often pulling late nights at the library. On 0:02:22.481 --> 0:02:25.601 that night, on April twelfth, Pauline did a shift at 0:02:25.601 --> 0:02:28.961 the ROTC. While she was there, she mentioned to a 0:02:29.001 --> 0:02:31.681 coworker that she might go to a gospel concert later, 0:02:32.761 --> 0:02:36.281 but she ended up going to the library to study. Now, 0:02:36.321 --> 0:02:40.041 according to her roommate, Pauline's regular routine would have had 0:02:40.041 --> 0:02:42.601 her coming home at around ten thirty or eleven PM. 0:02:43.721 --> 0:02:46.681 Something made her lead the library a little earlier that night, 0:02:46.881 --> 0:02:50.441 around nine thirty PM, and then while she was walking, 0:02:50.841 --> 0:02:53.120 when she was just a few blocks from her apartment, 0:02:53.921 --> 0:02:57.921 someone came out of that darkness and attacked Pauline, stabbing 0:02:57.961 --> 0:03:00.801 her over and over eight times in all, in a 0:03:00.841 --> 0:03:05.001 frenzied attack that lasted several minutes. It was a hot night, 0:03:05.601 --> 0:03:08.201 a lot of people had their windows open, and at 0:03:08.281 --> 0:03:11.840 nine forty five pm when Pauline started screaming. A lot 0:03:11.881 --> 0:03:14.841 of people in the area heard her screaming, and there 0:03:14.841 --> 0:03:18.641 were several witnesses who saw a man come up behind her. 0:03:19.681 --> 0:03:23.801 But despite that, Pauline's killer escaped into the night. And 0:03:24.041 --> 0:03:27.601 even though the police have questioned tons of people, lots 0:03:27.601 --> 0:03:30.281 of theories have been explored over the years, and there 0:03:30.401 --> 0:03:35.281 was one arrest, Pauline's killer has never been found. I'm 0:03:35.361 --> 0:03:38.841 Catherine Townsend. Over the past five years of making my 0:03:38.921 --> 0:03:42.641 true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned there's no such 0:03:42.721 --> 0:03:46.561 thing as a small town where murder never happens. I've 0:03:46.601 --> 0:03:49.641 received hundreds of messages from people all around the country 0:03:50.081 --> 0:03:52.681 asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, 0:03:52.921 --> 0:03:54.801 their families, and their communities. 0:03:55.401 --> 0:03:56.321 If you have a. 0:03:56.321 --> 0:03:58.281 Case you'd like me and my team to look into, 0:03:58.921 --> 0:04:00.961 you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone 0:04:01.041 --> 0:04:04.761 Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four six 0:04:04.921 --> 0:04:08.361 one four or five. That's six seven eight seven four 0:04:08.441 --> 0:04:46.281 four six one four five. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.640 Police got to the scene really quickly. They rushed Pauline 0:04:50.681 --> 0:04:54.361 to Washington Regional Hospital, but they couldn't do anything to 0:04:54.401 --> 0:04:57.401 save her, and she was pronounced dead just after eleven PM, 0:04:58.241 --> 0:05:01.121 so the assault had very quickly turned into a murder case. 0:05:01.681 --> 0:05:06.081 Pauline's body was sent for an autopsy. Forensic testing revealed 0:05:06.161 --> 0:05:09.001 that Pauline had died of the stab wounds. She had 0:05:09.041 --> 0:05:11.601 been stabbed in the arm, the chest, and the stomach. 0:05:12.161 --> 0:05:15.201 Investigators said the murder weapon was a knife like a 0:05:15.201 --> 0:05:19.241 butcher knife, around six to eight inches long, and they 0:05:19.281 --> 0:05:23.041 believed serrated on both sides. Police did not find the 0:05:23.121 --> 0:05:26.841 murder weapon at the scene, but several days later, the 0:05:26.881 --> 0:05:29.361 sheriff did find a butcher knife that was stabbed into 0:05:29.361 --> 0:05:32.201 the ground behind an apartment complex that was across the 0:05:32.241 --> 0:05:35.481 street from where Pauline lived. They sent that knife in 0:05:35.521 --> 0:05:38.361 for testing, but I haven't been able to figure out what, 0:05:38.521 --> 0:05:41.481 if anything, happened with that weapon. A lot of people 0:05:41.521 --> 0:05:43.481 doubted that that butcher knife had been the weapon in 0:05:43.521 --> 0:05:46.841 the place because it wasn't serrated. But as far as 0:05:46.881 --> 0:05:49.641 I know, and there is a lot of information missing 0:05:49.721 --> 0:05:52.801 in this case, there was nothing conclusive, ever proven one 0:05:52.841 --> 0:05:56.961 way or the other. Sadly, that knife, along with a 0:05:57.041 --> 0:05:58.880 ton of other evidence, has been lost. 0:05:59.321 --> 0:06:00.481 We'll get to that later. 0:06:03.561 --> 0:06:06.401 Side note, While I was working on Gail Vaught's case, 0:06:06.441 --> 0:06:09.241 which we covered a couple of weeks back, as part 0:06:09.281 --> 0:06:12.841 of that, we started looking around for other unsolved murders 0:06:12.841 --> 0:06:16.921 in the same area of Arkansas. Even though Pauline's murder 0:06:17.001 --> 0:06:20.681 happened nine years earlier than Gail's murder in nineteen eighty, 0:06:21.201 --> 0:06:24.561 I couldn't help but be struck by Pauline's case because 0:06:25.001 --> 0:06:28.561 even though them was completely different. For Pauline and Gail, 0:06:29.001 --> 0:06:30.760 Gail was shot in the head and appeared to have 0:06:30.761 --> 0:06:33.880 been sexually assaulted, while Pauline was stabbed in a semi 0:06:33.881 --> 0:06:37.801 public area. Both women were tall, with shoulder linked brown hair, 0:06:38.321 --> 0:06:40.521 and both cases were unsolved. 0:06:41.521 --> 0:06:43.641 I want to be cleared. Nothing in the evidence. 0:06:43.321 --> 0:06:46.281 I've seen indicates these cases are connected in any way. 0:06:47.121 --> 0:06:50.201 The mos were completely different. Gail was shot in the 0:06:50.241 --> 0:06:53.200 head and appeared to have been sexually assaulted. Pauline was 0:06:53.241 --> 0:06:58.320 stabbed in a semi public area. Amy reached out to 0:06:58.361 --> 0:07:02.280 a member of Pauline's family named Lance Gosnell. His great 0:07:02.321 --> 0:07:05.761 grandmother is Pauline's aunt, so he's her cousin and he's 0:07:05.801 --> 0:07:09.200 been hearing about Pauline's story about this famous unsolved murder 0:07:09.201 --> 0:07:11.321 in his family for a long time, since he was 0:07:11.441 --> 0:07:14.361 very young. A few years ago, he decided to try 0:07:14.401 --> 0:07:17.561 and find answers. He started writing about the case. The 0:07:17.641 --> 0:07:21.961 website is at who Murdered Pauline dot WordPress dot com, 0:07:22.481 --> 0:07:25.761 and he's compiled a tremendous amount of evidence over the 0:07:25.841 --> 0:07:28.601 years that he's collected a lot of it through Foyer requests. 0:07:29.681 --> 0:07:32.761 Pauline Stormant was born on April third, nineteen forty four, 0:07:32.801 --> 0:07:36.241 in Ozark, Arkansas, and her family her mom and dad 0:07:36.281 --> 0:07:39.481 were still living in Ozark when she died from a 0:07:39.521 --> 0:07:42.041 young age. Her family described her as someone who was 0:07:42.201 --> 0:07:45.961 very serious, pretty quiet, and liked to study. She was 0:07:46.001 --> 0:07:48.481 not a drinker or a partier in high school, and 0:07:48.521 --> 0:07:51.001 it seemed to be pretty much the same story in college. 0:07:53.001 --> 0:07:56.001 After she graduated from high school, she attended Arkansas Tech 0:07:56.081 --> 0:07:59.601 University in Russellville. She finished her freshman year there and 0:07:59.641 --> 0:08:03.041 after that she left school and started doing some secretarial work. 0:08:04.041 --> 0:08:07.961 So one thing about Pauline's Stormant, her studies and her 0:08:08.001 --> 0:08:11.801 work life are pretty well documented. Her personal life is 0:08:11.961 --> 0:08:13.081 much more of a mystery. 0:08:13.801 --> 0:08:15.241 There are some years. 0:08:15.041 --> 0:08:18.041 Between when she was twenty one and twenty seven where 0:08:18.081 --> 0:08:21.481 we don't know a lot about her personal relationships. When 0:08:21.561 --> 0:08:23.881 she was twenty one years old, in nineteen sixty five, 0:08:24.081 --> 0:08:27.041 Pauline got married to a man named Charles Joseph Pate. 0:08:27.761 --> 0:08:30.121 A lot of their relationship, as we said, is a mystery, 0:08:30.641 --> 0:08:33.801 but we do know that whatever happened between them apparently 0:08:33.841 --> 0:08:37.081 did not end very well. Charles and Pauline lived in 0:08:37.121 --> 0:08:39.961 Memphis for a while. While Pauline was in Memphis, she 0:08:40.001 --> 0:08:42.081 taught first aid for the Red Cross, as well as 0:08:42.121 --> 0:08:45.481 doing some secretarial work. Again, a lot of the history 0:08:45.521 --> 0:08:48.681 about Pauline in this case was provided by her cousin Lance. 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.001 One other thing that jumps out in my mind is 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:55.680 the records show that she was married to a man 0:08:55.800 --> 0:09:01.281 named Charles Pate. The marriage didn't last long. I can't 0:09:01.321 --> 0:09:05.721 find a door divorced certificate, but she had mentioned to 0:09:05.881 --> 0:09:09.281 a roommate who she had lived with when she was 0:09:09.321 --> 0:09:13.001 either in Memphis or Atlanta, that she was deathly afraid 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:13.881 of her ex husband. 0:09:15.560 --> 0:09:18.881 So Pauline and Charles were estranged, but according to her 0:09:18.881 --> 0:09:21.601 family and to court records, they may not have been 0:09:21.601 --> 0:09:26.881 officially divorced. So in nineteen seventy one, Pauline was at 0:09:26.881 --> 0:09:29.761 the University of Arkansas. She had put her studies on 0:09:29.801 --> 0:09:32.841 hold while she was married to Charles, but once Pauline 0:09:32.881 --> 0:09:35.481 got the chance to complete her education, she seemed to 0:09:35.481 --> 0:09:40.041 really throw herself into it. Information from a foyer request 0:09:40.081 --> 0:09:44.641 from an old police report shows that Pauline's former roommate, 0:09:44.761 --> 0:09:47.761 the one who Lance was referring to, who she had 0:09:47.801 --> 0:09:51.081 lived with in Memphis. That woman's name was Iris Fletcher. 0:09:51.681 --> 0:09:54.081 She was the one who talked about Pauline's fear of 0:09:54.081 --> 0:09:58.761 her ex husband. But apparently police ruled out Charles fairly early. 0:09:59.521 --> 0:10:02.081 I don't know why. I have really tried to figure 0:10:02.081 --> 0:10:04.040 that out, but I don't have a lot of information 0:10:04.081 --> 0:10:06.561 about the investigation because a lot of the case file 0:10:06.641 --> 0:10:10.001 is gone over the years, A lot of the evidence 0:10:10.041 --> 0:10:13.121 and a lot of the pages have been lost. But 0:10:13.241 --> 0:10:16.721 apparently he attended the funeral, was cooperative with the police, 0:10:16.721 --> 0:10:22.561 and was cleared early. Pauline's college roommate, Pat the one 0:10:22.561 --> 0:10:25.721 who said that Pauline didn't date that much, was asked 0:10:25.721 --> 0:10:28.280 by police if anything strange had happened on the day 0:10:28.321 --> 0:10:31.641 Pauline was murdered, and she said, yes, there was one 0:10:31.681 --> 0:10:34.961 thing that was out of the ordinary. She said that 0:10:35.041 --> 0:10:38.641 at around two pm that afternoon, apparently, two men who 0:10:38.721 --> 0:10:43.241 were described as white men, young guys who Pauline in 0:10:43.241 --> 0:10:47.121 her roommate didn't know, invited Pauline and Pat for drinks. 0:10:47.601 --> 0:10:49.681 The two women said no thanks and didn't take them 0:10:49.761 --> 0:10:53.601 up on their offer. Later, the two men reportedly went 0:10:53.641 --> 0:10:57.561 toward the residence of a guy named Gordon Cummings. Gordon 0:10:57.641 --> 0:11:00.921 Cummings with someone who we know Pauline had been introduced to. 0:11:01.721 --> 0:11:03.440 She knew him, but we don't know how well she 0:11:03.521 --> 0:11:05.921 knew him, and that will be the case with a 0:11:06.041 --> 0:11:09.081 lot of these relationships. Trying to figure out exactly how 0:11:09.081 --> 0:11:11.921 these people were related and connected each other is a 0:11:12.001 --> 0:11:16.761 huge part of this. We all know that sometimes in 0:11:16.801 --> 0:11:20.601 these cases, these tiny little details that we know are 0:11:20.641 --> 0:11:22.961 true and am using air quotes there turn out to 0:11:22.961 --> 0:11:26.761 be slightly wrong, and those slightly wrong details can multiply 0:11:26.921 --> 0:11:30.081 over the years and turn into a much larger distortion. 0:11:30.201 --> 0:11:33.041 We've seen this happen over and over with so many cases. 0:11:33.441 --> 0:11:37.081 Facts are wrong from the beginning and they're repeated wrong 0:11:37.161 --> 0:11:41.401 over the years. At the same time, though, sometimes tiny 0:11:41.441 --> 0:11:44.321 details are left out and you never know which ones 0:11:44.361 --> 0:11:45.641 could lead to cracking the case. 0:11:47.561 --> 0:11:49.641 Jane Jones wrote a long. 0:11:49.601 --> 0:11:52.561 Very in depth article about this case in Ay about 0:11:52.641 --> 0:11:55.841 U magazine back in twenty twenty. She pointed out that 0:11:55.921 --> 0:11:58.281 it was a full moon that night. This was something 0:11:58.321 --> 0:12:01.281 that had appeared in some early news reports, and that 0:12:01.441 --> 0:12:04.241 detail supposedly meant that Pauline could be seen by the 0:12:04.241 --> 0:12:09.121 witnesses that night. But actually, because I obsess over these things, 0:12:09.201 --> 0:12:11.681 I went back and found out actually the moon wasn't 0:12:11.721 --> 0:12:12.361 full that night. 0:12:12.441 --> 0:12:13.881 It was a waning gibbous moon. 0:12:14.441 --> 0:12:16.641 Not that that makes any difference in the context of 0:12:16.641 --> 0:12:20.280 the investigation at all, because actually a waning gibbus is 0:12:20.321 --> 0:12:22.201 almost a full moon. It's actually the part of the 0:12:22.241 --> 0:12:25.361 lunar phase right after the moon is full. It would 0:12:25.361 --> 0:12:27.961 be almost as light as a full moon out there, 0:12:28.561 --> 0:12:31.841 but probably a little bit less poetic in a newspaper article. 0:12:32.241 --> 0:12:34.361 And I'm bringing this up just to illustrate it's. 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.121 One tiny example of something we thought we knew wrong. 0:12:38.161 --> 0:12:41.881 Information gets repeated over the years, and sometimes it multiplies. 0:12:42.121 --> 0:12:44.121 So I'm really trying to go back and take a 0:12:44.121 --> 0:12:46.361 look at every single piece of information that we have 0:12:46.561 --> 0:12:49.761 and try to understand if we really know everything that 0:12:49.761 --> 0:12:56.361 we think we know. Police were trying to figure out 0:12:56.441 --> 0:12:59.681 what Pauline's plans had been that night, to see if, 0:12:59.761 --> 0:13:02.321 other than the two guys asking her in her roommate 0:13:02.361 --> 0:13:05.041 to have drinks, anything else oude of the ordinary had happened. 0:13:06.041 --> 0:13:08.721 Police talked to a woman named Terry Keating. Now Terry 0:13:09.161 --> 0:13:12.401 worked with Pauline at the ROTC office. She said she 0:13:12.441 --> 0:13:15.361 had seen Pauline at around seven thirty pm and that 0:13:15.441 --> 0:13:19.161 Pauline had mentioned something about a gospel concert hosted by 0:13:19.161 --> 0:13:22.961 a group called Black Americans for Democracy. This concert was 0:13:23.001 --> 0:13:25.241 going to be held at the Union Ballroom, a building 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:28.201 that was basically very close right next door to the 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:33.121 ROTC building. It started at eight pm. But whether Pauline 0:13:33.161 --> 0:13:36.241 attended that concert or not is still kind of a 0:13:36.321 --> 0:13:40.121 question mark because some reports say she was planning to go. 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.761 Other media reports say she told someone she had a 0:13:42.801 --> 0:13:46.081 class or a conflict and she could not attend. Lance 0:13:46.161 --> 0:13:49.721 pointed out something interesting on his website. He said that 0:13:49.841 --> 0:13:53.841 we're talking about nineteen seventy one Arkansas, and he was speculating, 0:13:53.841 --> 0:13:57.001 but he said, could some racist person have taken offense 0:13:57.041 --> 0:14:00.080 at a white woman planning to go to this concert 0:14:00.361 --> 0:14:02.040 where there were going to be a lot of black 0:14:02.081 --> 0:14:06.281 singers total speculation, but given the political climate at the time, 0:14:06.761 --> 0:14:09.601 I do think it's something that police would have to consider. 0:14:10.441 --> 0:14:12.761 But there was no evidence that this was ever a factor. 0:14:13.561 --> 0:14:17.561 So whether or not Pauline made it to that concert, eventually, 0:14:17.641 --> 0:14:20.321 after she worked her shift at the ROTC, she ended 0:14:20.401 --> 0:14:26.481 up at the library. She was seen by multiple witnesses there, 0:14:26.961 --> 0:14:30.881 but then she left suddenly. We don't know exactly what time, 0:14:31.161 --> 0:14:35.361 but by tracing her route, she must have headed outside 0:14:35.441 --> 0:14:36.681 at around nine point thirty. 0:14:37.521 --> 0:14:39.441 So why did she leave early? 0:14:39.841 --> 0:14:43.081 Was it a coincidence or did she see something or 0:14:43.121 --> 0:14:47.481 someone and there that bothered her. After she left the library, 0:14:47.521 --> 0:14:51.041 Pauline's route would have taken her south along Duncan Avenue. 0:14:51.121 --> 0:14:52.161 She was walking. 0:14:51.841 --> 0:14:54.601 Pretty slowly and carefully because she had a big stack 0:14:54.641 --> 0:14:57.601 of books in her hands, So again I'm betting that 0:14:57.641 --> 0:15:00.561 she headed straight home because she was balancing. 0:15:00.121 --> 0:15:01.321 Lots of school books. 0:15:02.321 --> 0:15:02.881 She was at the. 0:15:02.841 --> 0:15:06.481 Intersection of Duncan Avenue and Treadwell Streets when her attacker struck. 0:15:08.241 --> 0:15:12.081 The vicious attack happened very quickly, and then her attacker 0:15:12.161 --> 0:15:15.441 left the scene on foot. Another thing that we know 0:15:15.761 --> 0:15:17.801 for sure in this case is the time of death. 0:15:17.881 --> 0:15:20.721 We know she was screaming at nine forty five pm 0:15:20.841 --> 0:15:24.281 because several people heard her at the same time. One 0:15:24.361 --> 0:15:26.961 of them was twenty four year old Jack Huff. He 0:15:27.041 --> 0:15:30.161 lived at the Summit Terrace apartments, which were nearby. He 0:15:30.361 --> 0:15:33.601 said when he heard that scream, he ran downstairs and 0:15:33.641 --> 0:15:37.561 he saw Pauline kind of staggering toward him and holding 0:15:37.601 --> 0:15:42.041 her stomach. He told the police that Pauline said someone 0:15:42.161 --> 0:15:44.521 hit her in the chest and that she said someone 0:15:44.641 --> 0:15:49.721 was following her, someone who was wearing glasses. Another witness 0:15:49.801 --> 0:15:53.641 named Mike Adare, also lived nearby. He said he'd actually 0:15:53.681 --> 0:15:56.721 seen Pauline before the attack happened. He said he was 0:15:56.801 --> 0:15:59.761 driving home and at the corner of Duncan and Center, 0:15:59.841 --> 0:16:02.321 right where she got attacked. He said he saw her 0:16:02.401 --> 0:16:05.041 carrying some really heavy books and he saw a. 0:16:04.921 --> 0:16:05.841 Man following her. 0:16:07.001 --> 0:16:10.801 Two other men, Gary Gammel, and Joe Clifton, were driving 0:16:10.921 --> 0:16:13.961 in separate cars north on South Duncan and they were 0:16:13.961 --> 0:16:17.681 approaching that same intersection. Joe also lived at the Summit 0:16:17.761 --> 0:16:21.921 Terrace apartment complex. He told investigators that he also saw 0:16:21.961 --> 0:16:25.201 a man following Pauline. He said he noticed she was 0:16:25.201 --> 0:16:28.281 carrying some heavy books and he thought about asking her 0:16:28.321 --> 0:16:31.001 if she wanted a lift, but in the end he didn't. 0:16:31.401 --> 0:16:34.241 Then a few seconds later, he said he heard the scream. 0:16:34.881 --> 0:16:38.601 He heard her screaming, help me. So Joe and Gary 0:16:38.641 --> 0:16:41.641 are also there in their cars. They both rushed up 0:16:41.681 --> 0:16:44.721 to the scene. Gary said that from his point of view, 0:16:45.001 --> 0:16:47.401 he saw Pauline collapse to the ground. He said when 0:16:47.401 --> 0:16:50.321 he looked around, he saw her books and her personal 0:16:50.321 --> 0:16:53.241 belongings on the ground, but he didn't see anyone else. 0:16:53.761 --> 0:16:56.561 He said, when he saw Pauline, she was holding her chest. 0:16:57.081 --> 0:17:00.081 He approached her and when he got closer he could 0:17:00.121 --> 0:17:02.081 see that she was lying half in the yard and 0:17:02.121 --> 0:17:04.840 half in the street. He said that her white skirt 0:17:04.921 --> 0:17:08.921 in one of her arms were completely soaked blood. Joe 0:17:09.041 --> 0:17:11.521 said that he asked Pauline if the man that was 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:12.561 following her did this. 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:15.041 She told him yes. 0:17:16.120 --> 0:17:18.360 He then started trying to help her, asking where her 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.561 cuts were and which way the man went. But he 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.121 said at this point Pauline didn't know where the man went, 0:17:25.321 --> 0:17:28.041 and she was kind of slipping in and out of consciousness. 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:37.721 She kept asking for her books. Detectives did find Pauline's 0:17:37.721 --> 0:17:41.121 black purse with her wallet and ida in it near 0:17:41.201 --> 0:17:44.041 her body. They took it in for testing, but only 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.160 found one set of fingerprints, and it turned out that 0:17:46.201 --> 0:17:49.880 they were Pauline's, so police knew it was unlikely the 0:17:49.961 --> 0:17:52.521 killer's motive had been robbery. It didn't seem like they 0:17:52.561 --> 0:17:55.521 grabbed for her purse at all. They were trying to 0:17:55.601 --> 0:18:00.241 hurt her, not take her stuff. Police asked all four 0:18:00.281 --> 0:18:03.121 witnesses some detailed questions about the man that they said 0:18:03.161 --> 0:18:05.121 they saw following Pauline. 0:18:05.241 --> 0:18:06.481 Mike Adair said. 0:18:06.241 --> 0:18:08.721 The man following Pauline was wearing a brown sport coat 0:18:08.881 --> 0:18:12.241 and had blonde or dirty blonde hair, around five ten 0:18:12.281 --> 0:18:14.161 to six feet tall, and wearing glasses. 0:18:14.961 --> 0:18:16.881 So the police did a sketch. 0:18:16.681 --> 0:18:20.601 According to these guys descriptions and in the end it's 0:18:20.721 --> 0:18:22.921 kind of random, but the sketch, a lot of people 0:18:22.921 --> 0:18:26.081 pointed out, kind of looked like the Zodiac Killer. By 0:18:26.121 --> 0:18:28.881 the way, no, there was no evidence the Zodiac Killer 0:18:28.921 --> 0:18:33.120 was ever involved, So like the Zodiac Killer sketch, the 0:18:33.281 --> 0:18:36.321 sketch in Pauline's case was pretty generic. No one had 0:18:36.321 --> 0:18:39.640 actually seen this man's face, so it was a sketch 0:18:39.681 --> 0:18:43.721 of a guy was slipped back, hair and glasses, again, 0:18:43.521 --> 0:18:45.761 a pretty common look on a college campus. 0:18:46.121 --> 0:18:47.441 This guy could have been anyone. 0:18:48.161 --> 0:18:50.921 When Mike was asked about the police sketch, he said, yes, 0:18:50.961 --> 0:18:53.360 it did look similar to the man he saw, but 0:18:53.601 --> 0:18:55.360 he pointed out that the hair of the guy he 0:18:55.401 --> 0:18:58.441 saw was messier, not slip back like on that sketch. 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.801 There were two other potential witnesses, Robert Spray and John Hall. 0:19:04.961 --> 0:19:08.321 These guys lived nearby at twelve South Hill Street. They 0:19:08.401 --> 0:19:10.121 said they had seen a man who could have been 0:19:10.121 --> 0:19:12.401 involved in the crime because the guy kind of fit 0:19:12.441 --> 0:19:15.321 the description of the assailant. He had a sport code on. 0:19:15.681 --> 0:19:18.321 He was described as being medium height with a slight build. 0:19:18.801 --> 0:19:21.080 They said that this guy was kind of stumbling around 0:19:21.201 --> 0:19:24.041 like he was drunk. But they didn't have a lot 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:26.080 to go on. They didn't have a description of the car, 0:19:26.521 --> 0:19:29.841 and in the end, police never definitively found that person, 0:19:30.321 --> 0:19:33.001 so it seemed to be a dead end. So police 0:19:33.041 --> 0:19:35.521 had no idea what the motive had been. But they 0:19:35.561 --> 0:19:39.440 did have potentially four different people who said they definitively 0:19:39.481 --> 0:19:43.281 saw the killer, but their descriptions differed slightly, which of 0:19:43.281 --> 0:19:46.600 course is not uncommon in a case like this, But 0:19:46.721 --> 0:19:49.600 they did all agree on one thing. Pauline had been 0:19:49.641 --> 0:19:53.961 attacked by one person, one man who stabbed her multiple times, 0:19:54.601 --> 0:19:56.920 and they said that man had been following her and 0:19:57.001 --> 0:19:59.521 was able to get very close to her before he pounced. 0:20:01.561 --> 0:20:04.441 Because of where Pauline's injuries were the fact that she 0:20:04.481 --> 0:20:07.121 had stab wounds on the front of her body, police 0:20:07.161 --> 0:20:09.601 figured out she had turned around to face her attacker, 0:20:10.441 --> 0:20:13.961 so they wondered was it someone she knew, Was that 0:20:14.161 --> 0:20:18.041 how they were able to get that close, or were 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.721 they just really fast and could they have snuck up 0:20:20.761 --> 0:20:24.840 on her that quickly. The police admitted they didn't know 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.440 if this had been someone fixated on Pauline specifically, or 0:20:28.601 --> 0:20:33.081 someone targeting women totally randomly, or even possibly a case 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.961 of mistaken identity. Because it was pretty dark it was night, 0:20:37.361 --> 0:20:40.080 none of the men who saw this stranger were that close, 0:20:40.681 --> 0:20:44.241 so even though there were multiple witnesses, not a single 0:20:44.281 --> 0:20:47.200 one got a good look at the killer's face. But 0:20:47.281 --> 0:20:50.680 police did know one thing that was such a vicious attack, 0:20:51.321 --> 0:20:55.201 the person who stabbed Pauline would have blood on their clothing, 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:59.201 so police canvassed the area they were looking for a 0:20:59.281 --> 0:21:03.160 suspect covered in blood, and it wasn't long before they 0:21:03.201 --> 0:21:07.201 found one a few minutes after the stabbing, police were 0:21:07.241 --> 0:21:10.441 cruising the area when two officers saw two young men 0:21:10.481 --> 0:21:14.321 sitting on a bench. According to a very good article 0:21:14.361 --> 0:21:17.600 in Master Detective magazine from nineteen seventy four, they were 0:21:17.641 --> 0:21:19.960 around five blocks away from the crime scene when they 0:21:20.001 --> 0:21:22.681 saw these guys. One of them was seventeen year old 0:21:22.801 --> 0:21:26.081 Wallace Peter Cunkle. So the police start talking to these 0:21:26.080 --> 0:21:29.201 guys and apparently they told the officers that they were 0:21:29.201 --> 0:21:32.360 just hanging around. They were supposed to have had dates 0:21:32.401 --> 0:21:34.640 with two girls, but they'd been stood up. But when 0:21:34.721 --> 0:21:37.440 police asked them for more details, the guys said they 0:21:37.441 --> 0:21:39.961 didn't even know these girls' names, which honestly seems a 0:21:39.961 --> 0:21:42.201 little bit strange to me that they wouldn't even have 0:21:42.241 --> 0:21:45.321 a first name. But apparently the police thought this story 0:21:45.361 --> 0:21:48.801 was believable. As the detective was talking to Peter Cunkle, 0:21:48.881 --> 0:21:52.801 he noticed some dark spots on his white shirt, jacket, 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:57.481 and trousers. Later it was determined those were blood. When 0:21:57.521 --> 0:22:00.081 the officer asked Peter why he had blood on his clothes, 0:22:00.401 --> 0:22:04.161 Peter said he'd had a nosebleed recently. Now, to police, 0:22:04.161 --> 0:22:07.041 with everything going on, this seemed like a pretty big coincidence. 0:22:07.401 --> 0:22:10.440 So they took him in for questioning. They took his clothes, 0:22:10.481 --> 0:22:13.441 and they took samples of his blood. Now, obviously this 0:22:13.561 --> 0:22:16.281 was back in nineteen seventy one, so the testing they 0:22:16.281 --> 0:22:18.481 could do on blood was much more limited than it 0:22:18.561 --> 0:22:21.961 is now. They could basically tell you what type of 0:22:21.961 --> 0:22:27.360 blood it was, and that's about it. Peter got a lawyer, 0:22:27.761 --> 0:22:31.601 and his lawyer said he refused to take a polygraph test. Now, 0:22:31.681 --> 0:22:33.561 by the way, I don't hold this against him at all, 0:22:33.761 --> 0:22:36.481 just my opinion, but I've said this before. I actually 0:22:36.481 --> 0:22:39.281 think this is a very smart move. Honestly, asking for 0:22:39.321 --> 0:22:42.281 an attorney, especially in a situation like this where you 0:22:42.361 --> 0:22:45.161 know the police are kind of on a fishing expedition, 0:22:46.001 --> 0:22:50.321 is something that I think everyone should do. Peter told police, 0:22:50.361 --> 0:22:52.441 and this is according to his police statement that was 0:22:52.481 --> 0:22:55.400 released via a Foyer request, that he and a friend 0:22:55.641 --> 0:22:57.801 were boiling water with speed that night. 0:22:58.521 --> 0:23:00.600 So we've talked about injectable speed before. 0:23:00.721 --> 0:23:02.961 That was a big thing in the seventies and eighties 0:23:03.001 --> 0:23:06.161 in Arkansas, and what they were using was a drug 0:23:06.201 --> 0:23:08.801 that was similar to finfinn. Now, if you were around 0:23:08.801 --> 0:23:11.241 in the eighties, you may remember that this was an 0:23:11.361 --> 0:23:14.041 ingredient and a diet drug before it got removed from 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.321 the market by the FDA in the mid nineties because 0:23:16.361 --> 0:23:19.721 people who took it were experiencing heart damage. These pills 0:23:19.761 --> 0:23:23.281 were very strong, they were speed. What they would do 0:23:23.401 --> 0:23:25.681 is boil water, throw a lot of pills in there, 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.321