1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,961 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,121 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 2: It was April twelfth, nineteen seventy one. A twenty seven 13 00:01:33,401 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: year old woman named Pauline Stormant was walking down South 14 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,721 Speaker 2: Duncan Avenue in Fayetteville, Arkansas, just a few blocks from 15 00:01:39,761 --> 00:01:43,681 Speaker 2: her apartment. She didn't know that someone was following her 16 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,681 Speaker 2: in the darkness. Pauline worked two part time jobs. One 17 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,241 Speaker 2: is a cashier at the Malco Theater and another as 18 00:01:50,281 --> 00:01:53,241 Speaker 2: a secretary at the ROTC Center on the University of 19 00:01:53,281 --> 00:01:57,201 Speaker 2: Arkansas campus. Pauline had recently started going back to school 20 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,361 Speaker 2: as a mature student. She enrolled as a sophomore at 21 00:02:00,401 --> 00:02:02,921 Speaker 2: the University of Arkansas at Fayetble, where she was a 22 00:02:02,921 --> 00:02:07,561 Speaker 2: social welfare major. Pauline had a roommate, Alice pat Murphy. 23 00:02:08,921 --> 00:02:13,641 Speaker 2: Pat later told the authorities that Pauline wasn't dating anyone. Actually, 24 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,081 Speaker 2: Pauline spent most of her free time hitting the books. 25 00:02:16,401 --> 00:02:18,841 Speaker 2: She was very focused on school work, which meant that 26 00:02:18,921 --> 00:02:22,361 Speaker 2: she was often pulling late nights at the library. On 27 00:02:22,481 --> 00:02:25,601 Speaker 2: that night, on April twelfth, Pauline did a shift at 28 00:02:25,601 --> 00:02:28,961 Speaker 2: the ROTC. While she was there, she mentioned to a 29 00:02:29,001 --> 00:02:31,681 Speaker 2: coworker that she might go to a gospel concert later, 30 00:02:32,761 --> 00:02:36,281 Speaker 2: but she ended up going to the library to study. Now, 31 00:02:36,321 --> 00:02:40,041 Speaker 2: according to her roommate, Pauline's regular routine would have had 32 00:02:40,041 --> 00:02:42,601 Speaker 2: her coming home at around ten thirty or eleven PM. 33 00:02:43,721 --> 00:02:46,681 Speaker 2: Something made her lead the library a little earlier that night, 34 00:02:46,881 --> 00:02:50,441 Speaker 2: around nine thirty PM, and then while she was walking, 35 00:02:50,841 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 2: when she was just a few blocks from her apartment, 36 00:02:53,921 --> 00:02:57,921 Speaker 2: someone came out of that darkness and attacked Pauline, stabbing 37 00:02:57,961 --> 00:03:00,801 Speaker 2: her over and over eight times in all, in a 38 00:03:00,841 --> 00:03:05,001 Speaker 2: frenzied attack that lasted several minutes. It was a hot night, 39 00:03:05,601 --> 00:03:08,201 Speaker 2: a lot of people had their windows open, and at 40 00:03:08,281 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: nine forty five pm when Pauline started screaming. A lot 41 00:03:11,881 --> 00:03:14,841 Speaker 2: of people in the area heard her screaming, and there 42 00:03:14,841 --> 00:03:18,641 Speaker 2: were several witnesses who saw a man come up behind her. 43 00:03:19,681 --> 00:03:23,801 Speaker 2: But despite that, Pauline's killer escaped into the night. And 44 00:03:24,041 --> 00:03:27,601 Speaker 2: even though the police have questioned tons of people, lots 45 00:03:27,601 --> 00:03:30,281 Speaker 2: of theories have been explored over the years, and there 46 00:03:30,401 --> 00:03:35,281 Speaker 2: was one arrest, Pauline's killer has never been found. I'm 47 00:03:35,361 --> 00:03:38,841 Speaker 2: Catherine Townsend. Over the past five years of making my 48 00:03:38,921 --> 00:03:42,641 Speaker 2: true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned there's no such 49 00:03:42,721 --> 00:03:46,561 Speaker 2: thing as a small town where murder never happens. I've 50 00:03:46,601 --> 00:03:49,641 Speaker 2: received hundreds of messages from people all around the country 51 00:03:50,081 --> 00:03:52,681 Speaker 2: asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them, 52 00:03:52,921 --> 00:03:54,801 Speaker 2: their families, and their communities. 53 00:03:55,401 --> 00:03:56,321 Speaker 3: If you have a. 54 00:03:56,321 --> 00:03:58,281 Speaker 2: Case you'd like me and my team to look into, 55 00:03:58,921 --> 00:04:00,961 Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone 56 00:04:01,041 --> 00:04:04,761 Speaker 2: Murder Line at six seven eight seven four four six 57 00:04:04,921 --> 00:04:08,361 Speaker 2: one four or five. That's six seven eight seven four 58 00:04:08,441 --> 00:04:46,281 Speaker 2: four six one four five. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. 59 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 2: Police got to the scene really quickly. They rushed Pauline 60 00:04:50,681 --> 00:04:54,361 Speaker 2: to Washington Regional Hospital, but they couldn't do anything to 61 00:04:54,401 --> 00:04:57,401 Speaker 2: save her, and she was pronounced dead just after eleven PM, 62 00:04:58,241 --> 00:05:01,121 Speaker 2: so the assault had very quickly turned into a murder case. 63 00:05:01,681 --> 00:05:06,081 Speaker 2: Pauline's body was sent for an autopsy. Forensic testing revealed 64 00:05:06,161 --> 00:05:09,001 Speaker 2: that Pauline had died of the stab wounds. She had 65 00:05:09,041 --> 00:05:11,601 Speaker 2: been stabbed in the arm, the chest, and the stomach. 66 00:05:12,161 --> 00:05:15,201 Speaker 2: Investigators said the murder weapon was a knife like a 67 00:05:15,201 --> 00:05:19,241 Speaker 2: butcher knife, around six to eight inches long, and they 68 00:05:19,281 --> 00:05:23,041 Speaker 2: believed serrated on both sides. Police did not find the 69 00:05:23,121 --> 00:05:26,841 Speaker 2: murder weapon at the scene, but several days later, the 70 00:05:26,881 --> 00:05:29,361 Speaker 2: sheriff did find a butcher knife that was stabbed into 71 00:05:29,361 --> 00:05:32,201 Speaker 2: the ground behind an apartment complex that was across the 72 00:05:32,241 --> 00:05:35,481 Speaker 2: street from where Pauline lived. They sent that knife in 73 00:05:35,521 --> 00:05:38,361 Speaker 2: for testing, but I haven't been able to figure out what, 74 00:05:38,521 --> 00:05:41,481 Speaker 2: if anything, happened with that weapon. A lot of people 75 00:05:41,521 --> 00:05:43,481 Speaker 2: doubted that that butcher knife had been the weapon in 76 00:05:43,521 --> 00:05:46,841 Speaker 2: the place because it wasn't serrated. But as far as 77 00:05:46,881 --> 00:05:49,641 Speaker 2: I know, and there is a lot of information missing 78 00:05:49,721 --> 00:05:52,801 Speaker 2: in this case, there was nothing conclusive, ever proven one 79 00:05:52,841 --> 00:05:56,961 Speaker 2: way or the other. Sadly, that knife, along with a 80 00:05:57,041 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: ton of other evidence, has been lost. 81 00:05:59,321 --> 00:06:00,481 Speaker 3: We'll get to that later. 82 00:06:03,561 --> 00:06:06,401 Speaker 2: Side note, While I was working on Gail Vaught's case, 83 00:06:06,441 --> 00:06:09,241 Speaker 2: which we covered a couple of weeks back, as part 84 00:06:09,281 --> 00:06:12,841 Speaker 2: of that, we started looking around for other unsolved murders 85 00:06:12,841 --> 00:06:16,921 Speaker 2: in the same area of Arkansas. Even though Pauline's murder 86 00:06:17,001 --> 00:06:20,681 Speaker 2: happened nine years earlier than Gail's murder in nineteen eighty, 87 00:06:21,201 --> 00:06:24,561 Speaker 2: I couldn't help but be struck by Pauline's case because 88 00:06:25,001 --> 00:06:28,561 Speaker 2: even though them was completely different. For Pauline and Gail, 89 00:06:29,001 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 2: Gail was shot in the head and appeared to have 90 00:06:30,761 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: been sexually assaulted, while Pauline was stabbed in a semi 91 00:06:33,881 --> 00:06:37,801 Speaker 2: public area. Both women were tall, with shoulder linked brown hair, 92 00:06:38,321 --> 00:06:40,521 Speaker 2: and both cases were unsolved. 93 00:06:41,521 --> 00:06:43,641 Speaker 3: I want to be cleared. Nothing in the evidence. 94 00:06:43,321 --> 00:06:46,281 Speaker 2: I've seen indicates these cases are connected in any way. 95 00:06:47,121 --> 00:06:50,201 Speaker 2: The mos were completely different. Gail was shot in the 96 00:06:50,241 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 2: head and appeared to have been sexually assaulted. Pauline was 97 00:06:53,241 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 2: stabbed in a semi public area. Amy reached out to 98 00:06:58,361 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 2: a member of Pauline's family named Lance Gosnell. His great 99 00:07:02,321 --> 00:07:05,761 Speaker 2: grandmother is Pauline's aunt, so he's her cousin and he's 100 00:07:05,801 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: been hearing about Pauline's story about this famous unsolved murder 101 00:07:09,201 --> 00:07:11,321 Speaker 2: in his family for a long time, since he was 102 00:07:11,441 --> 00:07:14,361 Speaker 2: very young. A few years ago, he decided to try 103 00:07:14,401 --> 00:07:17,561 Speaker 2: and find answers. He started writing about the case. The 104 00:07:17,641 --> 00:07:21,961 Speaker 2: website is at who Murdered Pauline dot WordPress dot com, 105 00:07:22,481 --> 00:07:25,761 Speaker 2: and he's compiled a tremendous amount of evidence over the 106 00:07:25,841 --> 00:07:28,601 Speaker 2: years that he's collected a lot of it through Foyer requests. 107 00:07:29,681 --> 00:07:32,761 Speaker 2: Pauline Stormant was born on April third, nineteen forty four, 108 00:07:32,801 --> 00:07:36,241 Speaker 2: in Ozark, Arkansas, and her family her mom and dad 109 00:07:36,281 --> 00:07:39,481 Speaker 2: were still living in Ozark when she died from a 110 00:07:39,521 --> 00:07:42,041 Speaker 2: young age. Her family described her as someone who was 111 00:07:42,201 --> 00:07:45,961 Speaker 2: very serious, pretty quiet, and liked to study. She was 112 00:07:46,001 --> 00:07:48,481 Speaker 2: not a drinker or a partier in high school, and 113 00:07:48,521 --> 00:07:51,001 Speaker 2: it seemed to be pretty much the same story in college. 114 00:07:53,001 --> 00:07:56,001 Speaker 2: After she graduated from high school, she attended Arkansas Tech 115 00:07:56,081 --> 00:07:59,601 Speaker 2: University in Russellville. She finished her freshman year there and 116 00:07:59,641 --> 00:08:03,041 Speaker 2: after that she left school and started doing some secretarial work. 117 00:08:04,041 --> 00:08:07,961 Speaker 2: So one thing about Pauline's Stormant, her studies and her 118 00:08:08,001 --> 00:08:11,801 Speaker 2: work life are pretty well documented. Her personal life is 119 00:08:11,961 --> 00:08:13,081 Speaker 2: much more of a mystery. 120 00:08:13,801 --> 00:08:15,241 Speaker 3: There are some years. 121 00:08:15,041 --> 00:08:18,041 Speaker 2: Between when she was twenty one and twenty seven where 122 00:08:18,081 --> 00:08:21,481 Speaker 2: we don't know a lot about her personal relationships. When 123 00:08:21,561 --> 00:08:23,881 Speaker 2: she was twenty one years old, in nineteen sixty five, 124 00:08:24,081 --> 00:08:27,041 Speaker 2: Pauline got married to a man named Charles Joseph Pate. 125 00:08:27,761 --> 00:08:30,121 Speaker 2: A lot of their relationship, as we said, is a mystery, 126 00:08:30,641 --> 00:08:33,801 Speaker 2: but we do know that whatever happened between them apparently 127 00:08:33,841 --> 00:08:37,081 Speaker 2: did not end very well. Charles and Pauline lived in 128 00:08:37,121 --> 00:08:39,961 Speaker 2: Memphis for a while. While Pauline was in Memphis, she 129 00:08:40,001 --> 00:08:42,081 Speaker 2: taught first aid for the Red Cross, as well as 130 00:08:42,121 --> 00:08:45,481 Speaker 2: doing some secretarial work. Again, a lot of the history 131 00:08:45,521 --> 00:08:48,681 Speaker 2: about Pauline in this case was provided by her cousin Lance. 132 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,001 Speaker 4: One other thing that jumps out in my mind is 133 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 4: the records show that she was married to a man 134 00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:01,281 Speaker 4: named Charles Pate. The marriage didn't last long. I can't 135 00:09:01,321 --> 00:09:05,721 Speaker 4: find a door divorced certificate, but she had mentioned to 136 00:09:05,881 --> 00:09:09,281 Speaker 4: a roommate who she had lived with when she was 137 00:09:09,321 --> 00:09:13,001 Speaker 4: either in Memphis or Atlanta, that she was deathly afraid 138 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:13,881 Speaker 4: of her ex husband. 139 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:18,881 Speaker 2: So Pauline and Charles were estranged, but according to her 140 00:09:18,881 --> 00:09:21,601 Speaker 2: family and to court records, they may not have been 141 00:09:21,601 --> 00:09:26,881 Speaker 2: officially divorced. So in nineteen seventy one, Pauline was at 142 00:09:26,881 --> 00:09:29,761 Speaker 2: the University of Arkansas. She had put her studies on 143 00:09:29,801 --> 00:09:32,841 Speaker 2: hold while she was married to Charles, but once Pauline 144 00:09:32,881 --> 00:09:35,481 Speaker 2: got the chance to complete her education, she seemed to 145 00:09:35,481 --> 00:09:40,041 Speaker 2: really throw herself into it. Information from a foyer request 146 00:09:40,081 --> 00:09:44,641 Speaker 2: from an old police report shows that Pauline's former roommate, 147 00:09:44,761 --> 00:09:47,761 Speaker 2: the one who Lance was referring to, who she had 148 00:09:47,801 --> 00:09:51,081 Speaker 2: lived with in Memphis. That woman's name was Iris Fletcher. 149 00:09:51,681 --> 00:09:54,081 Speaker 2: She was the one who talked about Pauline's fear of 150 00:09:54,081 --> 00:09:58,761 Speaker 2: her ex husband. But apparently police ruled out Charles fairly early. 151 00:09:59,521 --> 00:10:02,081 Speaker 2: I don't know why. I have really tried to figure 152 00:10:02,081 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: that out, but I don't have a lot of information 153 00:10:04,081 --> 00:10:06,561 Speaker 2: about the investigation because a lot of the case file 154 00:10:06,641 --> 00:10:10,001 Speaker 2: is gone over the years, A lot of the evidence 155 00:10:10,041 --> 00:10:13,121 Speaker 2: and a lot of the pages have been lost. But 156 00:10:13,241 --> 00:10:16,721 Speaker 2: apparently he attended the funeral, was cooperative with the police, 157 00:10:16,721 --> 00:10:22,561 Speaker 2: and was cleared early. Pauline's college roommate, Pat the one 158 00:10:22,561 --> 00:10:25,721 Speaker 2: who said that Pauline didn't date that much, was asked 159 00:10:25,721 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: by police if anything strange had happened on the day 160 00:10:28,321 --> 00:10:31,641 Speaker 2: Pauline was murdered, and she said, yes, there was one 161 00:10:31,681 --> 00:10:34,961 Speaker 2: thing that was out of the ordinary. She said that 162 00:10:35,041 --> 00:10:38,641 Speaker 2: at around two pm that afternoon, apparently, two men who 163 00:10:38,721 --> 00:10:43,241 Speaker 2: were described as white men, young guys who Pauline in 164 00:10:43,241 --> 00:10:47,121 Speaker 2: her roommate didn't know, invited Pauline and Pat for drinks. 165 00:10:47,601 --> 00:10:49,681 Speaker 2: The two women said no thanks and didn't take them 166 00:10:49,761 --> 00:10:53,601 Speaker 2: up on their offer. Later, the two men reportedly went 167 00:10:53,641 --> 00:10:57,561 Speaker 2: toward the residence of a guy named Gordon Cummings. Gordon 168 00:10:57,641 --> 00:11:00,921 Speaker 2: Cummings with someone who we know Pauline had been introduced to. 169 00:11:01,721 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 2: She knew him, but we don't know how well she 170 00:11:03,521 --> 00:11:05,921 Speaker 2: knew him, and that will be the case with a 171 00:11:06,041 --> 00:11:09,081 Speaker 2: lot of these relationships. Trying to figure out exactly how 172 00:11:09,081 --> 00:11:11,921 Speaker 2: these people were related and connected each other is a 173 00:11:12,001 --> 00:11:16,761 Speaker 2: huge part of this. We all know that sometimes in 174 00:11:16,801 --> 00:11:20,601 Speaker 2: these cases, these tiny little details that we know are 175 00:11:20,641 --> 00:11:22,961 Speaker 2: true and am using air quotes there turn out to 176 00:11:22,961 --> 00:11:26,761 Speaker 2: be slightly wrong, and those slightly wrong details can multiply 177 00:11:26,921 --> 00:11:30,081 Speaker 2: over the years and turn into a much larger distortion. 178 00:11:30,201 --> 00:11:33,041 Speaker 2: We've seen this happen over and over with so many cases. 179 00:11:33,441 --> 00:11:37,081 Speaker 2: Facts are wrong from the beginning and they're repeated wrong 180 00:11:37,161 --> 00:11:41,401 Speaker 2: over the years. At the same time, though, sometimes tiny 181 00:11:41,441 --> 00:11:44,321 Speaker 2: details are left out and you never know which ones 182 00:11:44,361 --> 00:11:45,641 Speaker 2: could lead to cracking the case. 183 00:11:47,561 --> 00:11:49,641 Speaker 3: Jane Jones wrote a long. 184 00:11:49,601 --> 00:11:52,561 Speaker 2: Very in depth article about this case in Ay about 185 00:11:52,641 --> 00:11:55,841 Speaker 2: U magazine back in twenty twenty. She pointed out that 186 00:11:55,921 --> 00:11:58,281 Speaker 2: it was a full moon that night. This was something 187 00:11:58,321 --> 00:12:01,281 Speaker 2: that had appeared in some early news reports, and that 188 00:12:01,441 --> 00:12:04,241 Speaker 2: detail supposedly meant that Pauline could be seen by the 189 00:12:04,241 --> 00:12:09,121 Speaker 2: witnesses that night. But actually, because I obsess over these things, 190 00:12:09,201 --> 00:12:11,681 Speaker 2: I went back and found out actually the moon wasn't 191 00:12:11,721 --> 00:12:12,361 Speaker 2: full that night. 192 00:12:12,441 --> 00:12:13,881 Speaker 3: It was a waning gibbous moon. 193 00:12:14,441 --> 00:12:16,641 Speaker 2: Not that that makes any difference in the context of 194 00:12:16,641 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 2: the investigation at all, because actually a waning gibbus is 195 00:12:20,321 --> 00:12:22,201 Speaker 2: almost a full moon. It's actually the part of the 196 00:12:22,241 --> 00:12:25,361 Speaker 2: lunar phase right after the moon is full. It would 197 00:12:25,361 --> 00:12:27,961 Speaker 2: be almost as light as a full moon out there, 198 00:12:28,561 --> 00:12:31,841 Speaker 2: but probably a little bit less poetic in a newspaper article. 199 00:12:32,241 --> 00:12:34,361 Speaker 3: And I'm bringing this up just to illustrate it's. 200 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,121 Speaker 2: One tiny example of something we thought we knew wrong. 201 00:12:38,161 --> 00:12:41,881 Speaker 2: Information gets repeated over the years, and sometimes it multiplies. 202 00:12:42,121 --> 00:12:44,121 Speaker 2: So I'm really trying to go back and take a 203 00:12:44,121 --> 00:12:46,361 Speaker 2: look at every single piece of information that we have 204 00:12:46,561 --> 00:12:49,761 Speaker 2: and try to understand if we really know everything that 205 00:12:49,761 --> 00:12:56,361 Speaker 2: we think we know. Police were trying to figure out 206 00:12:56,441 --> 00:12:59,681 Speaker 2: what Pauline's plans had been that night, to see if, 207 00:12:59,761 --> 00:13:02,321 Speaker 2: other than the two guys asking her in her roommate 208 00:13:02,361 --> 00:13:05,041 Speaker 2: to have drinks, anything else oude of the ordinary had happened. 209 00:13:06,041 --> 00:13:08,721 Speaker 2: Police talked to a woman named Terry Keating. Now Terry 210 00:13:09,161 --> 00:13:12,401 Speaker 2: worked with Pauline at the ROTC office. She said she 211 00:13:12,441 --> 00:13:15,361 Speaker 2: had seen Pauline at around seven thirty pm and that 212 00:13:15,441 --> 00:13:19,161 Speaker 2: Pauline had mentioned something about a gospel concert hosted by 213 00:13:19,161 --> 00:13:22,961 Speaker 2: a group called Black Americans for Democracy. This concert was 214 00:13:23,001 --> 00:13:25,241 Speaker 2: going to be held at the Union Ballroom, a building 215 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,201 Speaker 2: that was basically very close right next door to the 216 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:33,121 Speaker 2: ROTC building. It started at eight pm. But whether Pauline 217 00:13:33,161 --> 00:13:36,241 Speaker 2: attended that concert or not is still kind of a 218 00:13:36,321 --> 00:13:40,121 Speaker 2: question mark because some reports say she was planning to go. 219 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,761 Speaker 2: Other media reports say she told someone she had a 220 00:13:42,801 --> 00:13:46,081 Speaker 2: class or a conflict and she could not attend. Lance 221 00:13:46,161 --> 00:13:49,721 Speaker 2: pointed out something interesting on his website. He said that 222 00:13:49,841 --> 00:13:53,841 Speaker 2: we're talking about nineteen seventy one Arkansas, and he was speculating, 223 00:13:53,841 --> 00:13:57,001 Speaker 2: but he said, could some racist person have taken offense 224 00:13:57,041 --> 00:14:00,080 Speaker 2: at a white woman planning to go to this concert 225 00:14:00,361 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 2: where there were going to be a lot of black 226 00:14:02,081 --> 00:14:06,281 Speaker 2: singers total speculation, but given the political climate at the time, 227 00:14:06,761 --> 00:14:09,601 Speaker 2: I do think it's something that police would have to consider. 228 00:14:10,441 --> 00:14:12,761 Speaker 2: But there was no evidence that this was ever a factor. 229 00:14:13,561 --> 00:14:17,561 Speaker 2: So whether or not Pauline made it to that concert, eventually, 230 00:14:17,641 --> 00:14:20,321 Speaker 2: after she worked her shift at the ROTC, she ended 231 00:14:20,401 --> 00:14:26,481 Speaker 2: up at the library. She was seen by multiple witnesses there, 232 00:14:26,961 --> 00:14:30,881 Speaker 2: but then she left suddenly. We don't know exactly what time, 233 00:14:31,161 --> 00:14:35,361 Speaker 2: but by tracing her route, she must have headed outside 234 00:14:35,441 --> 00:14:36,681 Speaker 2: at around nine point thirty. 235 00:14:37,521 --> 00:14:39,441 Speaker 3: So why did she leave early? 236 00:14:39,841 --> 00:14:43,081 Speaker 2: Was it a coincidence or did she see something or 237 00:14:43,121 --> 00:14:47,481 Speaker 2: someone and there that bothered her. After she left the library, 238 00:14:47,521 --> 00:14:51,041 Speaker 2: Pauline's route would have taken her south along Duncan Avenue. 239 00:14:51,121 --> 00:14:52,161 Speaker 3: She was walking. 240 00:14:51,841 --> 00:14:54,601 Speaker 2: Pretty slowly and carefully because she had a big stack 241 00:14:54,641 --> 00:14:57,601 Speaker 2: of books in her hands, So again I'm betting that 242 00:14:57,641 --> 00:15:00,561 Speaker 2: she headed straight home because she was balancing. 243 00:15:00,121 --> 00:15:01,321 Speaker 3: Lots of school books. 244 00:15:02,321 --> 00:15:02,881 Speaker 5: She was at the. 245 00:15:02,841 --> 00:15:06,481 Speaker 2: Intersection of Duncan Avenue and Treadwell Streets when her attacker struck. 246 00:15:08,241 --> 00:15:12,081 Speaker 2: The vicious attack happened very quickly, and then her attacker 247 00:15:12,161 --> 00:15:15,441 Speaker 2: left the scene on foot. Another thing that we know 248 00:15:15,761 --> 00:15:17,801 Speaker 2: for sure in this case is the time of death. 249 00:15:17,881 --> 00:15:20,721 Speaker 2: We know she was screaming at nine forty five pm 250 00:15:20,841 --> 00:15:24,281 Speaker 2: because several people heard her at the same time. One 251 00:15:24,361 --> 00:15:26,961 Speaker 2: of them was twenty four year old Jack Huff. He 252 00:15:27,041 --> 00:15:30,161 Speaker 2: lived at the Summit Terrace apartments, which were nearby. He 253 00:15:30,361 --> 00:15:33,601 Speaker 2: said when he heard that scream, he ran downstairs and 254 00:15:33,641 --> 00:15:37,561 Speaker 2: he saw Pauline kind of staggering toward him and holding 255 00:15:37,601 --> 00:15:42,041 Speaker 2: her stomach. He told the police that Pauline said someone 256 00:15:42,161 --> 00:15:44,521 Speaker 2: hit her in the chest and that she said someone 257 00:15:44,641 --> 00:15:49,721 Speaker 2: was following her, someone who was wearing glasses. Another witness 258 00:15:49,801 --> 00:15:53,641 Speaker 2: named Mike Adare, also lived nearby. He said he'd actually 259 00:15:53,681 --> 00:15:56,721 Speaker 2: seen Pauline before the attack happened. He said he was 260 00:15:56,801 --> 00:15:59,761 Speaker 2: driving home and at the corner of Duncan and Center, 261 00:15:59,841 --> 00:16:02,321 Speaker 2: right where she got attacked. He said he saw her 262 00:16:02,401 --> 00:16:05,041 Speaker 2: carrying some really heavy books and he saw a. 263 00:16:04,921 --> 00:16:05,841 Speaker 3: Man following her. 264 00:16:07,001 --> 00:16:10,801 Speaker 2: Two other men, Gary Gammel, and Joe Clifton, were driving 265 00:16:10,921 --> 00:16:13,961 Speaker 2: in separate cars north on South Duncan and they were 266 00:16:13,961 --> 00:16:17,681 Speaker 2: approaching that same intersection. Joe also lived at the Summit 267 00:16:17,761 --> 00:16:21,921 Speaker 2: Terrace apartment complex. He told investigators that he also saw 268 00:16:21,961 --> 00:16:25,201 Speaker 2: a man following Pauline. He said he noticed she was 269 00:16:25,201 --> 00:16:28,281 Speaker 2: carrying some heavy books and he thought about asking her 270 00:16:28,321 --> 00:16:31,001 Speaker 2: if she wanted a lift, but in the end he didn't. 271 00:16:31,401 --> 00:16:34,241 Speaker 2: Then a few seconds later, he said he heard the scream. 272 00:16:34,881 --> 00:16:38,601 Speaker 2: He heard her screaming, help me. So Joe and Gary 273 00:16:38,641 --> 00:16:41,641 Speaker 2: are also there in their cars. They both rushed up 274 00:16:41,681 --> 00:16:44,721 Speaker 2: to the scene. Gary said that from his point of view, 275 00:16:45,001 --> 00:16:47,401 Speaker 2: he saw Pauline collapse to the ground. He said when 276 00:16:47,401 --> 00:16:50,321 Speaker 2: he looked around, he saw her books and her personal 277 00:16:50,321 --> 00:16:53,241 Speaker 2: belongings on the ground, but he didn't see anyone else. 278 00:16:53,761 --> 00:16:56,561 Speaker 2: He said, when he saw Pauline, she was holding her chest. 279 00:16:57,081 --> 00:17:00,081 Speaker 2: He approached her and when he got closer he could 280 00:17:00,121 --> 00:17:02,081 Speaker 2: see that she was lying half in the yard and 281 00:17:02,121 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 2: half in the street. He said that her white skirt 282 00:17:04,921 --> 00:17:08,921 Speaker 2: in one of her arms were completely soaked blood. Joe 283 00:17:09,041 --> 00:17:11,521 Speaker 2: said that he asked Pauline if the man that was 284 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:12,561 Speaker 2: following her did this. 285 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:15,041 Speaker 3: She told him yes. 286 00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 2: He then started trying to help her, asking where her 287 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,561 Speaker 2: cuts were and which way the man went. But he 288 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,121 Speaker 2: said at this point Pauline didn't know where the man went, 289 00:17:25,321 --> 00:17:28,041 Speaker 2: and she was kind of slipping in and out of consciousness. 290 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:37,721 Speaker 2: She kept asking for her books. Detectives did find Pauline's 291 00:17:37,721 --> 00:17:41,121 Speaker 2: black purse with her wallet and ida in it near 292 00:17:41,201 --> 00:17:44,041 Speaker 2: her body. They took it in for testing, but only 293 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 2: found one set of fingerprints, and it turned out that 294 00:17:46,201 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 2: they were Pauline's, so police knew it was unlikely the 295 00:17:49,961 --> 00:17:52,521 Speaker 2: killer's motive had been robbery. It didn't seem like they 296 00:17:52,561 --> 00:17:55,521 Speaker 2: grabbed for her purse at all. They were trying to 297 00:17:55,601 --> 00:18:00,241 Speaker 2: hurt her, not take her stuff. Police asked all four 298 00:18:00,281 --> 00:18:03,121 Speaker 2: witnesses some detailed questions about the man that they said 299 00:18:03,161 --> 00:18:05,121 Speaker 2: they saw following Pauline. 300 00:18:05,241 --> 00:18:06,481 Speaker 3: Mike Adair said. 301 00:18:06,241 --> 00:18:08,721 Speaker 2: The man following Pauline was wearing a brown sport coat 302 00:18:08,881 --> 00:18:12,241 Speaker 2: and had blonde or dirty blonde hair, around five ten 303 00:18:12,281 --> 00:18:14,161 Speaker 2: to six feet tall, and wearing glasses. 304 00:18:14,961 --> 00:18:16,881 Speaker 3: So the police did a sketch. 305 00:18:16,681 --> 00:18:20,601 Speaker 2: According to these guys descriptions and in the end it's 306 00:18:20,721 --> 00:18:22,921 Speaker 2: kind of random, but the sketch, a lot of people 307 00:18:22,921 --> 00:18:26,081 Speaker 2: pointed out, kind of looked like the Zodiac Killer. By 308 00:18:26,121 --> 00:18:28,881 Speaker 2: the way, no, there was no evidence the Zodiac Killer 309 00:18:28,921 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 2: was ever involved, So like the Zodiac Killer sketch, the 310 00:18:33,281 --> 00:18:36,321 Speaker 2: sketch in Pauline's case was pretty generic. No one had 311 00:18:36,321 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 2: actually seen this man's face, so it was a sketch 312 00:18:39,681 --> 00:18:43,721 Speaker 2: of a guy was slipped back, hair and glasses, again, 313 00:18:43,521 --> 00:18:45,761 Speaker 2: a pretty common look on a college campus. 314 00:18:46,121 --> 00:18:47,441 Speaker 3: This guy could have been anyone. 315 00:18:48,161 --> 00:18:50,921 Speaker 2: When Mike was asked about the police sketch, he said, yes, 316 00:18:50,961 --> 00:18:53,360 Speaker 2: it did look similar to the man he saw, but 317 00:18:53,601 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 2: he pointed out that the hair of the guy he 318 00:18:55,401 --> 00:18:58,441 Speaker 2: saw was messier, not slip back like on that sketch. 319 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,801 Speaker 2: There were two other potential witnesses, Robert Spray and John Hall. 320 00:19:04,961 --> 00:19:08,321 Speaker 2: These guys lived nearby at twelve South Hill Street. They 321 00:19:08,401 --> 00:19:10,121 Speaker 2: said they had seen a man who could have been 322 00:19:10,121 --> 00:19:12,401 Speaker 2: involved in the crime because the guy kind of fit 323 00:19:12,441 --> 00:19:15,321 Speaker 2: the description of the assailant. He had a sport code on. 324 00:19:15,681 --> 00:19:18,321 Speaker 2: He was described as being medium height with a slight build. 325 00:19:18,801 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 2: They said that this guy was kind of stumbling around 326 00:19:21,201 --> 00:19:24,041 Speaker 2: like he was drunk. But they didn't have a lot 327 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: to go on. They didn't have a description of the car, 328 00:19:26,521 --> 00:19:29,841 Speaker 2: and in the end, police never definitively found that person, 329 00:19:30,321 --> 00:19:33,001 Speaker 2: so it seemed to be a dead end. So police 330 00:19:33,041 --> 00:19:35,521 Speaker 2: had no idea what the motive had been. But they 331 00:19:35,561 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 2: did have potentially four different people who said they definitively 332 00:19:39,481 --> 00:19:43,281 Speaker 2: saw the killer, but their descriptions differed slightly, which of 333 00:19:43,281 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 2: course is not uncommon in a case like this, But 334 00:19:46,721 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: they did all agree on one thing. Pauline had been 335 00:19:49,641 --> 00:19:53,961 Speaker 2: attacked by one person, one man who stabbed her multiple times, 336 00:19:54,601 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 2: and they said that man had been following her and 337 00:19:57,001 --> 00:19:59,521 Speaker 2: was able to get very close to her before he pounced. 338 00:20:01,561 --> 00:20:04,441 Speaker 2: Because of where Pauline's injuries were the fact that she 339 00:20:04,481 --> 00:20:07,121 Speaker 2: had stab wounds on the front of her body, police 340 00:20:07,161 --> 00:20:09,601 Speaker 2: figured out she had turned around to face her attacker, 341 00:20:10,441 --> 00:20:13,961 Speaker 2: so they wondered was it someone she knew, Was that 342 00:20:14,161 --> 00:20:18,041 Speaker 2: how they were able to get that close, or were 343 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,721 Speaker 2: they just really fast and could they have snuck up 344 00:20:20,761 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: on her that quickly. The police admitted they didn't know 345 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 2: if this had been someone fixated on Pauline specifically, or 346 00:20:28,601 --> 00:20:33,081 Speaker 2: someone targeting women totally randomly, or even possibly a case 347 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,961 Speaker 2: of mistaken identity. Because it was pretty dark it was night, 348 00:20:37,361 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 2: none of the men who saw this stranger were that close, 349 00:20:40,681 --> 00:20:44,241 Speaker 2: so even though there were multiple witnesses, not a single 350 00:20:44,281 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 2: one got a good look at the killer's face. But 351 00:20:47,281 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 2: police did know one thing that was such a vicious attack, 352 00:20:51,321 --> 00:20:55,201 Speaker 2: the person who stabbed Pauline would have blood on their clothing, 353 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,201 Speaker 2: so police canvassed the area they were looking for a 354 00:20:59,281 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 2: suspect covered in blood, and it wasn't long before they 355 00:21:03,201 --> 00:21:07,201 Speaker 2: found one a few minutes after the stabbing, police were 356 00:21:07,241 --> 00:21:10,441 Speaker 2: cruising the area when two officers saw two young men 357 00:21:10,481 --> 00:21:14,321 Speaker 2: sitting on a bench. According to a very good article 358 00:21:14,361 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 2: in Master Detective magazine from nineteen seventy four, they were 359 00:21:17,641 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: around five blocks away from the crime scene when they 360 00:21:20,001 --> 00:21:22,681 Speaker 2: saw these guys. One of them was seventeen year old 361 00:21:22,801 --> 00:21:26,081 Speaker 2: Wallace Peter Cunkle. So the police start talking to these 362 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,201 Speaker 2: guys and apparently they told the officers that they were 363 00:21:29,201 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 2: just hanging around. They were supposed to have had dates 364 00:21:32,401 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 2: with two girls, but they'd been stood up. But when 365 00:21:34,721 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 2: police asked them for more details, the guys said they 366 00:21:37,441 --> 00:21:39,961 Speaker 2: didn't even know these girls' names, which honestly seems a 367 00:21:39,961 --> 00:21:42,201 Speaker 2: little bit strange to me that they wouldn't even have 368 00:21:42,241 --> 00:21:45,321 Speaker 2: a first name. But apparently the police thought this story 369 00:21:45,361 --> 00:21:48,801 Speaker 2: was believable. As the detective was talking to Peter Cunkle, 370 00:21:48,881 --> 00:21:52,801 Speaker 2: he noticed some dark spots on his white shirt, jacket, 371 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,481 Speaker 2: and trousers. Later it was determined those were blood. When 372 00:21:57,521 --> 00:22:00,081 Speaker 2: the officer asked Peter why he had blood on his clothes, 373 00:22:00,401 --> 00:22:04,161 Speaker 2: Peter said he'd had a nosebleed recently. Now, to police, 374 00:22:04,161 --> 00:22:07,041 Speaker 2: with everything going on, this seemed like a pretty big coincidence. 375 00:22:07,401 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 2: So they took him in for questioning. They took his clothes, 376 00:22:10,481 --> 00:22:13,441 Speaker 2: and they took samples of his blood. Now, obviously this 377 00:22:13,561 --> 00:22:16,281 Speaker 2: was back in nineteen seventy one, so the testing they 378 00:22:16,281 --> 00:22:18,481 Speaker 2: could do on blood was much more limited than it 379 00:22:18,561 --> 00:22:21,961 Speaker 2: is now. They could basically tell you what type of 380 00:22:21,961 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 2: blood it was, and that's about it. Peter got a lawyer, 381 00:22:27,761 --> 00:22:31,601 Speaker 2: and his lawyer said he refused to take a polygraph test. Now, 382 00:22:31,681 --> 00:22:33,561 Speaker 2: by the way, I don't hold this against him at all, 383 00:22:33,761 --> 00:22:36,481 Speaker 2: just my opinion, but I've said this before. I actually 384 00:22:36,481 --> 00:22:39,281 Speaker 2: think this is a very smart move. Honestly, asking for 385 00:22:39,321 --> 00:22:42,281 Speaker 2: an attorney, especially in a situation like this where you 386 00:22:42,361 --> 00:22:45,161 Speaker 2: know the police are kind of on a fishing expedition, 387 00:22:46,001 --> 00:22:50,321 Speaker 2: is something that I think everyone should do. Peter told police, 388 00:22:50,361 --> 00:22:52,441 Speaker 2: and this is according to his police statement that was 389 00:22:52,481 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 2: released via a Foyer request, that he and a friend 390 00:22:55,641 --> 00:22:57,801 Speaker 2: were boiling water with speed that night. 391 00:22:58,521 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 3: So we've talked about injectable speed before. 392 00:23:00,721 --> 00:23:02,961 Speaker 2: That was a big thing in the seventies and eighties 393 00:23:03,001 --> 00:23:06,161 Speaker 2: in Arkansas, and what they were using was a drug 394 00:23:06,201 --> 00:23:08,801 Speaker 2: that was similar to finfinn. Now, if you were around 395 00:23:08,801 --> 00:23:11,241 Speaker 2: in the eighties, you may remember that this was an 396 00:23:11,361 --> 00:23:14,041 Speaker 2: ingredient and a diet drug before it got removed from 397 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,321 Speaker 2: the market by the FDA in the mid nineties because 398 00:23:16,361 --> 00:23:19,721 Speaker 2: people who took it were experiencing heart damage. These pills 399 00:23:19,761 --> 00:23:23,281 Speaker 2: were very strong, they were speed. What they would do 400 00:23:23,401 --> 00:23:25,681 Speaker 2: is boil water, throw a lot of pills in there, 401 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,321 Speaker 2: and then inject this stuff into their veins. So Peter 402 00:23:29,401 --> 00:23:31,201 Speaker 2: Kunkle said that's what they were doing that night. He 403 00:23:31,241 --> 00:23:33,921 Speaker 2: said he started shooting up at around seven thirty pm. 404 00:23:34,361 --> 00:23:37,161 Speaker 2: He took another shot at eight pm and then did 405 00:23:37,201 --> 00:23:39,321 Speaker 2: a few other things. Stopped by a local store called 406 00:23:39,361 --> 00:23:42,001 Speaker 2: the jet Set to get a sprite. Then between nine 407 00:23:42,161 --> 00:23:44,721 Speaker 2: thirty and nine to forty five pms, so the crucial 408 00:23:44,961 --> 00:23:48,121 Speaker 2: time when Pauline would have been walking from the library, 409 00:23:48,561 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 2: He said, a friend of his named Richard Finley, who 410 00:23:50,681 --> 00:23:52,961 Speaker 2: had been hanging out with that night, asked Peter to 411 00:23:53,001 --> 00:23:55,921 Speaker 2: take him home. So Peter said they borrowed one of 412 00:23:55,961 --> 00:23:58,961 Speaker 2: their friend's motorcycles, and then he claims that he gave 413 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,481 Speaker 2: Richard a ride home and their route would have involved 414 00:24:02,481 --> 00:24:06,761 Speaker 2: cutting right through Dixon Avenue, right through the crime scene. 415 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,881 Speaker 2: After dropping Richard home, Peter said that he went back 416 00:24:09,961 --> 00:24:12,481 Speaker 2: to the Grayhouse. This was the place where he'd been staying, 417 00:24:13,521 --> 00:24:17,081 Speaker 2: so Peter was in the area. According to the Arkansas 418 00:24:17,121 --> 00:24:21,961 Speaker 2: Razorback newspaper, both Peter Cuncle and Pauline had Type A blood, 419 00:24:22,401 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 2: but unfortunately, these small amounts of blood that drops on 420 00:24:26,681 --> 00:24:28,561 Speaker 2: Peter's clothes, they. 421 00:24:28,441 --> 00:24:30,681 Speaker 3: Didn't have enough to test it in the lab back then. 422 00:24:31,481 --> 00:24:33,921 Speaker 2: So the bottom line was a lot of people have 423 00:24:34,041 --> 00:24:37,561 Speaker 2: blood Type A and they had no physical evidence tying 424 00:24:37,601 --> 00:24:40,961 Speaker 2: Peter to the crime scene. And Peter had a good attorney. 425 00:24:41,921 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 2: His attorney was on point and he to deal with 426 00:24:44,201 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 2: the police. He said, Peter would agree to take a 427 00:24:46,921 --> 00:24:50,361 Speaker 2: lot of detector test, but only if the police would 428 00:24:50,361 --> 00:24:53,561 Speaker 2: agree that if Peter passed that test, basically they would 429 00:24:53,561 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 2: clear him. And apparently the police agreed to do that 430 00:24:56,681 --> 00:25:00,361 Speaker 2: and Peter passed. So Peter Conkle was released from police 431 00:25:00,361 --> 00:25:05,721 Speaker 2: custody and publicly cleared by law enforcement. The police chief, 432 00:25:05,721 --> 00:25:10,281 Speaker 2: Hollis Spencer, said that police were quote satisfied that he 433 00:25:10,361 --> 00:25:13,041 Speaker 2: had no part in the murder of Miss Stormant end quote. 434 00:25:14,561 --> 00:25:17,641 Speaker 2: Then Peter Councle and his parents held a press conference 435 00:25:18,121 --> 00:25:20,441 Speaker 2: and he was very emotional at this press conference. I 436 00:25:20,441 --> 00:25:22,881 Speaker 2: remember he's only seventeen years old and he was crying. 437 00:25:23,001 --> 00:25:25,321 Speaker 2: He told everybody he didn't blame the police, they were 438 00:25:25,361 --> 00:25:27,521 Speaker 2: just doing their job. He said he always knew he 439 00:25:27,561 --> 00:25:30,561 Speaker 2: would be cleared, and he completely denied having anything to 440 00:25:30,601 --> 00:25:34,921 Speaker 2: do with Pauline's murder. By the way, the charges against 441 00:25:35,001 --> 00:25:37,441 Speaker 2: Peter were dropped, but they were what we call nolly 442 00:25:37,521 --> 00:25:41,961 Speaker 2: prost meaning dismissed without prejudice, so if new evidence ever 443 00:25:42,041 --> 00:25:47,441 Speaker 2: comes to light, he could technically have been retried. After 444 00:25:47,481 --> 00:25:51,481 Speaker 2: Peter was released, police started looking for other people of interest. 445 00:25:51,521 --> 00:25:54,321 Speaker 2: They did a lot of interviews, they reportedly gave a 446 00:25:54,321 --> 00:25:58,441 Speaker 2: lot more a lie detector test, and then, just a 447 00:25:58,481 --> 00:26:02,641 Speaker 2: month after Pauline was murdered, a second University of Arkansas 448 00:26:02,681 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 2: co ed was stabbed. Her name was Andrea Jones, and 449 00:26:07,201 --> 00:26:10,321 Speaker 2: she lived about one point eight miles from where Pauline 450 00:26:10,361 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 2: was attacked. Police arrested a man named Eddie Rush. He 451 00:26:14,481 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: was twenty one years old and not a student at 452 00:26:16,641 --> 00:26:21,361 Speaker 2: the University of Arkansas. Apparently, Eddie Rush lied his way 453 00:26:21,481 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 2: into Andrew's apartment and attacked her. He stabbed her several times, 454 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,321 Speaker 2: but she survived. Eddie Rush was convicted and sentenced to 455 00:26:30,361 --> 00:26:34,681 Speaker 2: twenty one years in prison for attempted murder. And we're 456 00:26:34,721 --> 00:26:39,441 Speaker 2: bringing Eddie Rush up because his picture in the newspaper 457 00:26:39,721 --> 00:26:43,441 Speaker 2: from back then looks very much like the sketch that 458 00:26:43,521 --> 00:26:47,721 Speaker 2: wasulated a Pauline's attacker. He's got a short buzz cut, 459 00:26:47,761 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 2: but he does have glasses, and he would seem to 460 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,001 Speaker 2: fit the general description. Eddie Rush passed away several years ago, 461 00:26:56,601 --> 00:27:01,921 Speaker 2: and because in Pauline's case, there's no DNA attest, sadly 462 00:27:02,001 --> 00:27:05,081 Speaker 2: there's no way to investigate him now. But after that, 463 00:27:05,241 --> 00:27:08,761 Speaker 2: no one else was arrested or charged. Then, on May 464 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,121 Speaker 2: twenty second, nineteen eighty one, a man named Jack Butler 465 00:27:12,201 --> 00:27:15,641 Speaker 2: walked into the Fayetful Police Department. He said he had 466 00:27:15,681 --> 00:27:19,161 Speaker 2: something to tell police. He claimed that he had murdered 467 00:27:19,201 --> 00:27:29,561 Speaker 2: Pauline Storman. Jack Butler's story was that he was hanging 468 00:27:29,601 --> 00:27:32,441 Speaker 2: around a swimming pool on the University of Arkansas campus. 469 00:27:32,801 --> 00:27:34,801 Speaker 2: He said after that he went home and got a 470 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,961 Speaker 2: pocket knife and started strolling through Evergreen Cemetery. He said 471 00:27:38,961 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 2: that he saw a woman and started following her and 472 00:27:41,441 --> 00:27:44,761 Speaker 2: attacked her and stabbed her from behind. This is where 473 00:27:44,761 --> 00:27:47,801 Speaker 2: the story gets a little strange, because apparently he thought 474 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,681 Speaker 2: the woman was his wife. He told police when he 475 00:27:50,721 --> 00:27:53,281 Speaker 2: got home. He was shocked because he thought his wife 476 00:27:53,321 --> 00:27:55,481 Speaker 2: was dead and she was ready to have dinner. He 477 00:27:55,521 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 2: said he only later realized that the woman he had 478 00:27:58,641 --> 00:28:03,361 Speaker 2: supposedly stabbed was Pauline Stormant. But he said a lot 479 00:28:03,361 --> 00:28:05,561 Speaker 2: of things that didn't seem to fit the evidence or 480 00:28:06,001 --> 00:28:10,001 Speaker 2: actually make sense. Like he said he had stabbed Pauline 481 00:28:10,041 --> 00:28:12,281 Speaker 2: three times, when we know she had been stabbed a 482 00:28:12,321 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 2: lot more than that. And he also said she was 483 00:28:15,201 --> 00:28:18,281 Speaker 2: carrying a record player at the time. If you were 484 00:28:18,321 --> 00:28:20,681 Speaker 2: anywhere near that scene, you know she had a big 485 00:28:20,721 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 2: stack of books in her hands. Police apparently decided this 486 00:28:23,921 --> 00:28:27,241 Speaker 2: confession was erroneous and Jack Butler was cut loose. Also, 487 00:28:28,921 --> 00:28:33,001 Speaker 2: more time went by in the case seemed to go cold. 488 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,801 Speaker 2: I like to look at old cases so we can 489 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,841 Speaker 2: see the techniques that work. On April eighth, nineteen eighty one, 490 00:28:39,961 --> 00:28:44,441 Speaker 2: ten years after Pauline's murder in Texarcana, the two siblings, 491 00:28:44,481 --> 00:28:47,761 Speaker 2: fourteen year old Karen Alexander and thirteen year old Gordon Alexander, 492 00:28:48,321 --> 00:28:52,481 Speaker 2: were fatally stabbed to death inside their home. For decades, 493 00:28:52,601 --> 00:28:55,681 Speaker 2: this was a cold case. Police said Karen had been 494 00:28:55,721 --> 00:28:59,601 Speaker 2: sexually assaulted shortly before the murder. The murder weapon was 495 00:28:59,641 --> 00:29:03,761 Speaker 2: a butter knife, but police never made any arrests. Over 496 00:29:03,801 --> 00:29:06,841 Speaker 2: the years, Like in Pauline's case, a lot of people 497 00:29:06,841 --> 00:29:08,481 Speaker 2: said it could have been a serial killer, could have 498 00:29:08,521 --> 00:29:12,361 Speaker 2: been Henry Lee Lucas. Apparently he claimed responsibility for those killings, 499 00:29:12,841 --> 00:29:16,641 Speaker 2: but later, like so many of Henry Lee Lucas's other confessions, 500 00:29:16,801 --> 00:29:19,841 Speaker 2: it was proven to be false. He was nowhere near 501 00:29:19,921 --> 00:29:24,961 Speaker 2: Texarkana when these murders happened. It was a really tragic 502 00:29:25,001 --> 00:29:28,241 Speaker 2: story because after the murders of her children, their mother 503 00:29:28,401 --> 00:29:31,721 Speaker 2: took her own life after suffering from depression. And it 504 00:29:31,761 --> 00:29:35,241 Speaker 2: wasn't until forty two years later, when a detective took 505 00:29:35,281 --> 00:29:38,601 Speaker 2: up the case and resubmitted some forensic evidence into Codis 506 00:29:38,921 --> 00:29:39,401 Speaker 2: that they. 507 00:29:39,321 --> 00:29:41,521 Speaker 3: Discovered the killer was there all long. 508 00:29:42,081 --> 00:29:46,001 Speaker 2: It was the children's father in Alexander, who had supposedly 509 00:29:46,121 --> 00:29:49,081 Speaker 2: had an airtight alibi working an overnight shift a copper 510 00:29:49,081 --> 00:29:53,801 Speaker 2: tirron rubber plant. Police believe he had been sexually assaulting 511 00:29:53,801 --> 00:29:56,401 Speaker 2: his daughter, Karen for months. They believe that on the 512 00:29:56,441 --> 00:29:59,161 Speaker 2: morning when the children were killed, or possibly the night before, 513 00:29:59,561 --> 00:30:02,761 Speaker 2: he attempted to rape Karen, she fought him off or 514 00:30:02,761 --> 00:30:04,681 Speaker 2: her brother tried to intervene. 515 00:30:04,761 --> 00:30:06,801 Speaker 3: They both ended up being brutally murdered. 516 00:30:07,241 --> 00:30:10,761 Speaker 2: It is a sad and horrific case, but I'm bringing 517 00:30:10,761 --> 00:30:14,521 Speaker 2: it up because sometimes all it takes is one fresh 518 00:30:14,561 --> 00:30:16,961 Speaker 2: set of eyes who can look at the case file 519 00:30:17,281 --> 00:30:20,201 Speaker 2: and break the case. The time of death being a 520 00:30:20,201 --> 00:30:23,201 Speaker 2: little bit earlier or later than police think someone's alibi 521 00:30:23,281 --> 00:30:24,001 Speaker 2: not checking out. 522 00:30:24,441 --> 00:30:28,481 Speaker 3: Even the coldest cases can be solved. Now. 523 00:30:28,521 --> 00:30:32,921 Speaker 2: Obviously, in that case, the Alexander murders, there was DNA 524 00:30:33,041 --> 00:30:35,521 Speaker 2: that could be resubmitted, which I'm not sure is true 525 00:30:35,561 --> 00:30:39,681 Speaker 2: for Pauline's case. But for all the families out there 526 00:30:39,761 --> 00:30:41,721 Speaker 2: who have a cold case that has been going on 527 00:30:41,801 --> 00:30:48,441 Speaker 2: for years or decades, there's always hope. So back to 528 00:30:48,481 --> 00:30:53,841 Speaker 2: Pauline's case. Pauline's family didn't give up, and eventually Lance 529 00:30:53,881 --> 00:30:56,721 Speaker 2: started writing on his website and posting on sites like 530 00:30:56,761 --> 00:31:03,121 Speaker 2: web slues. Lance said that at one point law enforcement 531 00:31:03,241 --> 00:31:07,281 Speaker 2: actually put in an email quote at the moment, only 532 00:31:07,321 --> 00:31:10,201 Speaker 2: a deathbed confession or a secret diary hidden away in 533 00:31:10,201 --> 00:31:12,841 Speaker 2: an attict basement or bible will close this case. 534 00:31:13,281 --> 00:31:15,801 Speaker 3: End quote. Given the fact that. 535 00:31:15,681 --> 00:31:18,921 Speaker 2: Police say there's no DNA, and this is what we're 536 00:31:19,041 --> 00:31:22,081 Speaker 2: left with. What's next for this case? If the Foyer 537 00:31:22,161 --> 00:31:25,001 Speaker 2: request information we have so far as correct. There's apparently 538 00:31:25,081 --> 00:31:28,481 Speaker 2: no DNA to test, so authorities can't do, for example, 539 00:31:28,521 --> 00:31:32,801 Speaker 2: familial DNA testing. Over the years, a lot of people 540 00:31:32,841 --> 00:31:35,601 Speaker 2: have put a lot of different theories forward. Some people 541 00:31:35,641 --> 00:31:39,921 Speaker 2: compared Pauline's case to Betsy Ardsma's murder because both of 542 00:31:39,961 --> 00:31:42,961 Speaker 2: them were killed in college libraries. Police have said there's 543 00:31:43,001 --> 00:31:46,401 Speaker 2: no connection betwe those two cases. Some people suggested it 544 00:31:46,441 --> 00:31:48,921 Speaker 2: could be the Zodiac or Ted Bundy a serial killer, 545 00:31:48,921 --> 00:31:51,881 Speaker 2: but again, there was absolutely no evidence of this, and 546 00:31:51,921 --> 00:31:56,161 Speaker 2: this was not Ted Bundy's mo Honestly, there's no evidence 547 00:31:56,161 --> 00:31:58,761 Speaker 2: that this was a serial killer at all. But as 548 00:31:58,841 --> 00:32:01,841 Speaker 2: Lance said, so far, the evidence seems to point to 549 00:32:01,881 --> 00:32:04,841 Speaker 2: a more personal murder, some kind of crime of passion. 550 00:32:05,481 --> 00:32:07,281 Speaker 2: So if there's going to be a break in this case, 551 00:32:07,561 --> 00:32:10,201 Speaker 2: it's almost certainly not going to be from retesting of 552 00:32:10,281 --> 00:32:13,441 Speaker 2: DNA because so much of it has been lost. It's 553 00:32:13,441 --> 00:32:16,841 Speaker 2: going to be from someone who knows something. It's also 554 00:32:16,961 --> 00:32:20,161 Speaker 2: interesting that so many people, all the witnesses, seem to 555 00:32:20,201 --> 00:32:23,041 Speaker 2: agree on a couple of things, including the fact the 556 00:32:23,121 --> 00:32:26,561 Speaker 2: person who stabbed Pauline approached on foot. None of them 557 00:32:26,561 --> 00:32:29,881 Speaker 2: remember hearing a car afterwards. So this is a person 558 00:32:29,921 --> 00:32:32,681 Speaker 2: who obviously felt confident enough that they could move quickly 559 00:32:32,801 --> 00:32:35,521 Speaker 2: enough on that campus that they could get very close 560 00:32:35,561 --> 00:32:38,441 Speaker 2: to her without her being alarmed and without anyone else 561 00:32:38,561 --> 00:32:41,681 Speaker 2: noticing them. They believe that they fit in, and they 562 00:32:41,721 --> 00:32:45,681 Speaker 2: probably did, because remembers several people saw a man following 563 00:32:45,681 --> 00:32:48,321 Speaker 2: Pauline and they didn't realize that was anything out of 564 00:32:48,361 --> 00:32:50,521 Speaker 2: the ordinary until they heard the screams. 565 00:32:51,321 --> 00:32:53,001 Speaker 3: This person's plan was to. 566 00:32:52,961 --> 00:32:55,881 Speaker 2: Attack Pauline and to flee the scene, and that's what 567 00:32:55,921 --> 00:32:58,881 Speaker 2: they did, and it worked because up until now, this 568 00:32:58,921 --> 00:33:01,841 Speaker 2: person has gotten away with this murder. They walked up 569 00:33:01,881 --> 00:33:03,841 Speaker 2: to a young woman in the prime of her life, 570 00:33:04,561 --> 00:33:08,841 Speaker 2: murdered her and got away clean. Was it someone who 571 00:33:08,921 --> 00:33:11,641 Speaker 2: knew Pauline who had some kind of a grudge or 572 00:33:11,721 --> 00:33:13,841 Speaker 2: was it someone who maybe was obsessed with her who 573 00:33:13,881 --> 00:33:16,601 Speaker 2: wanted to know her and was frustrated because they couldn't 574 00:33:16,641 --> 00:33:20,081 Speaker 2: make contact in the way they wanted. Remember, in nineteen 575 00:33:20,121 --> 00:33:23,361 Speaker 2: seventy four, Master Detective magazine had published that big article 576 00:33:23,561 --> 00:33:27,361 Speaker 2: about the killing. In the nineteen eighties, the magazine got 577 00:33:27,361 --> 00:33:34,841 Speaker 2: an anonymous letter. The letter was postmarked Capron, Virginia, and 578 00:33:34,921 --> 00:33:37,441 Speaker 2: so that police had not caught the real killer. The 579 00:33:37,521 --> 00:33:40,361 Speaker 2: letter said that Pauline's killer had targeted her because they 580 00:33:40,441 --> 00:33:43,001 Speaker 2: believed she was someone else, that the whole thing had 581 00:33:43,001 --> 00:33:47,041 Speaker 2: been a mistake. Investigators did take some fingerprints off that document, 582 00:33:47,081 --> 00:33:50,401 Speaker 2: but tragically those prints, along with so much other evidence, 583 00:33:50,841 --> 00:33:53,481 Speaker 2: suffered the same fate. They were lost by law enforcement. 584 00:33:54,401 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 2: But the postmark is interesting for another reason. There's a 585 00:33:57,961 --> 00:34:01,601 Speaker 2: correctional facility there called the Southampton Correctional Center. Lance points 586 00:34:01,601 --> 00:34:06,161 Speaker 2: that out on his website. Now, there were some inmates 587 00:34:06,201 --> 00:34:09,401 Speaker 2: there who did time who were supposedly friends of Peter Cuncle's, 588 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,881 Speaker 2: and Joe Clifton, one of the witnesses, was also there 589 00:34:13,921 --> 00:34:17,721 Speaker 2: incarcerated for a period of time. This is very interesting 590 00:34:17,761 --> 00:34:21,281 Speaker 2: to me because I wonder could that mean that the 591 00:34:21,321 --> 00:34:24,321 Speaker 2: police were wrong about Peter Cunkle, that maybe he targeted 592 00:34:24,321 --> 00:34:27,521 Speaker 2: Pauline because he thought she was his dad who stood 593 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,241 Speaker 2: him up. And what about Joe Clifton, Could he have 594 00:34:30,321 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 2: been more than a witness. There are so many mysteries 595 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,321 Speaker 2: in this case. I have so many questions about the investigation, 596 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,841 Speaker 2: about these people's relations to each other, whether all of 597 00:34:45,881 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: them just happened to randomly be there, or whether there 598 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:48,441 Speaker 2: was more. 599 00:34:48,321 --> 00:34:49,041 Speaker 3: To these stories. 600 00:34:49,361 --> 00:34:52,721 Speaker 2: And I also have questions about Pauline's ex husband, how 601 00:34:52,761 --> 00:34:55,441 Speaker 2: conclusively he, or for that matter, any of these people 602 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,681 Speaker 2: were ruled out. I'm not saying that any one of 603 00:34:58,721 --> 00:35:01,881 Speaker 2: these people is responsible for her murder. Again, We're just 604 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,641 Speaker 2: trying to follow the threads to pick up on anything 605 00:35:04,681 --> 00:35:07,161 Speaker 2: that might have been missed over the years. No one 606 00:35:07,201 --> 00:35:10,761 Speaker 2: has ever been arrested or charged with this murder, so 607 00:35:10,881 --> 00:35:13,721 Speaker 2: I'm doing what I usually do. We're reaching out to 608 00:35:13,801 --> 00:35:16,361 Speaker 2: anyone who may have been in the area on that day, 609 00:35:16,401 --> 00:35:19,361 Speaker 2: who may have seen anything, any detailed, no matter how small. 610 00:35:19,761 --> 00:35:22,921 Speaker 2: We're breaking out a giant pot of coffee, and we're 611 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,481 Speaker 2: going through some case files with a lot of missing pages. 612 00:35:26,481 --> 00:35:30,881 Speaker 2: According to his obituary, Charles pay after he divorced Pauline, 613 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,881 Speaker 2: served in Vietnam, got numerous commendations, and later got a 614 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 2: job working for the Smithsonian Institute. He moved back to 615 00:35:38,041 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 2: Arkansas and became a fishing guide. He passed away in 616 00:35:41,001 --> 00:35:46,481 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. Then there's Gordon Cummings, the guy Pauline knew, 617 00:35:47,121 --> 00:35:49,721 Speaker 2: and the two friends who asked the girls if they 618 00:35:49,761 --> 00:35:52,441 Speaker 2: wanted to have drinks that day? Who were those guys? 619 00:35:52,481 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 2: Could they have had anything to do with this. Could 620 00:35:54,081 --> 00:35:57,081 Speaker 2: they have seen something or could those two men have 621 00:35:57,161 --> 00:36:00,201 Speaker 2: had anything to do with Peter Kunkle and his friend, 622 00:36:00,601 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 2: the ones who said they had dates who stood them up. Yes, 623 00:36:04,081 --> 00:36:06,401 Speaker 2: Peter was cleared by police, but as we know, he 624 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 2: had a very good lawyer, and sometimes mistakes are made. 625 00:36:10,721 --> 00:36:13,201 Speaker 2: Lance said that while he hopes to have answers one 626 00:36:13,241 --> 00:36:16,121 Speaker 2: day in this case, he would also really love to 627 00:36:16,161 --> 00:36:19,881 Speaker 2: have Pauline's memory honored somewhere in the University of Arkansas campus. 628 00:36:20,481 --> 00:36:23,721 Speaker 5: My long term goal with this project and anything that 629 00:36:23,801 --> 00:36:27,681 Speaker 5: comes out of it, I would be completely happy if 630 00:36:28,601 --> 00:36:33,401 Speaker 5: somehow I could see some kind of plaque with her 631 00:36:34,081 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 5: memory telling the story erected somewhere in the vicinity. 632 00:36:41,401 --> 00:36:44,081 Speaker 4: That's my long term goal to see that happens. 633 00:36:44,521 --> 00:36:46,281 Speaker 5: I think that would be the best way to honor 634 00:36:46,321 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 5: her memory, is. 635 00:36:47,401 --> 00:36:50,801 Speaker 4: To tell her story for all to see whenever they 636 00:36:50,841 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 4: come across it. If the university would do it, I 637 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,401 Speaker 4: would love to have it right there at the top 638 00:36:56,481 --> 00:36:59,201 Speaker 4: of South Duncan, at the edge of Dixon Street. 639 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,681 Speaker 5: This is what happened in one of our students. 640 00:37:04,361 --> 00:37:07,161 Speaker 2: I'm hoping that someone out there remembers April twelfth, nineteen 641 00:37:07,201 --> 00:37:11,641 Speaker 2: seventy one, at that intersection near the University of Arkansas. 642 00:37:12,161 --> 00:37:15,921 Speaker 2: Someone who heard a scream or saw something heard someone 643 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,961 Speaker 2: who was there talking about what happened that night, someone 644 00:37:19,041 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 2: who might have answers and who can help us get 645 00:37:22,041 --> 00:37:26,201 Speaker 2: closer to finding out what happened to Pauline Stormant. I'm 646 00:37:26,281 --> 00:37:31,401 Speaker 2: Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone 647 00:37:31,481 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 2: Murder Line is a production of School of Humans and 648 00:37:33,561 --> 00:37:37,321 Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend 649 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,881 Speaker 2: and produced by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to Amy Tubbs 650 00:37:40,921 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 2: for her research assistance. Music contributed by Ben Sale, Executive 651 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 2: producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Crowley. If 652 00:37:49,641 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 2: you have a case you'd like me and my team 653 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,601 Speaker 2: to look into, you can reach out to us at 654 00:37:53,601 --> 00:37:56,041 Speaker 2: our Helen Gone Murder Line. It's six seven eight seven 655 00:37:56,081 --> 00:37:59,241 Speaker 2: four four six one four five. That's six seven eight 656 00:37:59,601 --> 00:38:02,201 Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. 657 00:38:13,401 --> 00:38:14,321 Speaker 1: School of Humans