WEBVTT - Understanding 'The 5 Types of Wealth' with Sahil Bloom 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:11.879 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Masters in 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:15.480 Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.000 This week on the podcast strap Yourself In for another 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.759 extra special guest, saw Hill bloom is the author of 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.360 a new book, The Five Types of Wealth. He's also 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.880 worked in both private equity and finish capital, as well 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.440 as running his own firm. The book is kind of fascinating, 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:38.120 focusing on not just money as a source of wealth, 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:44.680 but time, your social life, your mental and psychological attitude, 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:49.320 your physical health, as well as your financial wellbeing. That 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:55.400 by focusing and only measuring money, we use a scoreboard 0:00:55.520 --> 0:01:00.120 that really doesn't sum up everything that we should be 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.600 thinking about. I found a conversation to be really fascinating. 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:06.720 The book is really interesting, and saw Hill is really 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:11.280 knowledgeable person who's lived for a relatively young person, a 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:16.040 fascinating life. Came to a realization that he was wasting 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.679 his time, his physical health, and a lot of other 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:24.200 assets that he had, and kind of rejiggered his whole 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.080 approach to what he was doing. I thought the discussion 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.920 was really fascinating, and I think you will also with 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:34.480 no further ado. My conversation with saw Hill Bloom, the 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:36.560 author of Five Types of Wealth. 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:38.560 Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:39.639 be able to do this in person. 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.720 Yet a little unusual sort of building and fun sort 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.040 of place relative to what you were used to on 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:50.120 the West Coast. You relocated to the East coast, right, 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.880 I did. Yeah, we'll talk about that. Yeah, we'll talk 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.880 about that because I was very touched by what you 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.520 wrote in the book about that. Let's start out with 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:03.280 your background Stanford bachelor's and economics and sociology and a 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:07.160 master's in public policy. What was the career plan? 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.760 To be honest, I don't think I knew. I've never 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:15.639 been a very good planner my entire life. My dad's 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:18.680 an economics professor, and so economics seemed like a good 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.640 undergraduate plan. But frankly, at the time, my real plan 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.880 was to go play professional baseball. My entire life had 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.079 been a baseball player. I got a scholarship to play 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:31.480 at Stanford, played there, and probably somewhat naively thought that 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.320 I could go make a career out of it playing 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:36.280 in the big leagues, and a shoulder injury my end 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.160 of my junior season sort of derailed those aspirations, and 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.520 I had to find my footing in something else. 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.840 So you're almost lucky it happened sooner than later, right. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.040 I think so? I think, you know, in hindsight's twenty 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.760 twenty on these things, there's always a silver lining, as 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.200 they say, I think, what would have happened if I 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:56.600 had tried to play professionally was I would have ended 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.760 up spending you know, three, four or five years toiling 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.359 or in some like bus in the middle of nowhere 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.160 in the miners, and then ended up having to go 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.320 start at you know, twenty eight or twenty nine rather 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:07.000 than twenty two. 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.560 Huh. And you worked with Condoalieza Rice as your advisor 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:15.120 at Stanford. That sounds pretty fun. What sort of lessons 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:15.960 did you learn from her? 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.800 I mean, she's a remarkable woman politics aside. I mean, 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.720 a woman who grew up in the Deep South in 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:26.800 Alabama and rose to become Secretary of State of the 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.120 United States of America. I mean just. 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.480 Mind blowing, pretty impressive. 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.519 What she actually built and what she created in her life, 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:36.720 and the intelligence that she displays in the grace with 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:40.440 which she displays it has always wowed me. And I 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.520 you know, look, I cold emailed her when I was 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:44.120 at Stanford to try to ask her to be my 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:48.200 master's advisor, and was fortunate that she at least gave 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:49.960 me a chance to go speak to her in person 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.400 and convince her to do that. And I got to 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.240 take her course that she teaches at Stanford, which was 0:03:56.280 --> 0:04:01.320 sort of a small group live basically live action seminar 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.360 where you kind of do these simulations of real world 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.640 foreign policy events where each person's sort of taking on 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.160 a different role, and you go through these simulations like 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:11.720 get woken up at two in the morning to go 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.520 through some crisis event. And it was just fascinating to 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.000 have someone in the room like her who had actually 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.040 been through those things and hear the stories she told 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.520 about her battles with Vladimir Putin and whatnot. It was 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:23.280 just incredible. 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.000 I can only imagine you spend all four years at 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:31.400 Stanford on a Division one baseball team that's very high level. 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.880 I always like to ask people to draw parallels. What 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:41.160 sort of skills and philosophies did you as a college 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:45.520 athlete find applicable to the rest of your life and 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:47.800 or wealth and finance. 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:53.599 Effectively, every single lesson that I feel I have benefited 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.240 from in my career was something that I learned in baseball. 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:00.200 I think, first off, teamwork and the ability to manage 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:04.320 multiple diverse personalities in a single environment is a meta 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.479 skill for life that rarely gets taught, and a team 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.039 forces you to learn that very early and very quickly, 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.080 and if you don't, you will not function as a team. 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.240 You know, like the understanding that not everyone is wired 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.120 the same, that not everyone is motivated by the same things. 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:19.800 That you need to meet people where they are and 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.480 then hopefully all rise to the level of the expectations 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.880 you have as a group. That is really an important 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.320 lesson to learn for life, you know. Look, the other one, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.120 which people talk about often is just the alpha that 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:36.000 you can generate through resilience as a human being, and 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:40.359 it is very, very difficult to develop in a context 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.080 outside of sports. And I think that, you know, there's 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:46.559 a reason that a lot of athletes and a lot 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:50.479 of military former military end up being incredible employees and 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.440 team members because they have had to battle. They understand 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.960 that failure is not final, that it's a learning lesson 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.400 that you can take the event, learn the lesson from it, 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.440 and move on to the next situation that you face. 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.839 Right, It's all about process, not outcome. If you have 0:06:04.920 --> 0:06:07.440 an unlucky bounce and you lose, you still got to 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.240 get up, dush yourself off, and start all over tomorrow. 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:14.200 Very applicable to trading desks and other things involved in finance. 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.760 Yeah, and I think it's the combination here that's important. So, 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.880 you know, we live in a world where, especially today, 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.839 a lot of people want to focus on the inputs. 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.000 And you have all these people like, oh, you know, 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:28.200 you should really care about the inputs and just focus 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.799 on feeling proud of the inputs. And I actually agree 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.320 with that, uh to some extent, because at the end 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.640 of the day, the world will judge you for your outputs. 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:41.200 It doesn't matter whether you feel great about the input 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.440 the deep work routine, the morning routine, all of the 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.880 rituals that you had, if your output is and athletes 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.080 know that, right, we do. We focus on the inputs. Absolutely, 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:51.839 you show up at practice every single day, but we 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.560 also know that no one gets an eighth place metal. 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:56.080 There are no participation. 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:58.320 No, they're not handing those out. And you have to 0:06:58.440 --> 0:06:59.760 learn that in life, you know, Like I have a 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:01.479 two and a half year old son now and I 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:03.120 want him to know that. And it's sort of a 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.280 harsh truth of the world that like, yes, your inputs matter, 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.039 and I want you to focus on them and be 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:10.600 proud of them and continue to refine them. But at 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:11.920 the end of the day, you are going to be 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:13.240 judged for your outputs. 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:18.400 Huh. Really really interesting. So you end up at Altamont 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.240 Capital Partners, which at the time was running about three 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.920 and a half billion dollars. How'd you find your way there? 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:24.720 What were you doing? 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.239 So it's a private equity fund in the Bay Area. 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:29.560 It was a spin out from a now much larger 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:34.120 firm called Golden Gate Capital. Incredible group of people, small group. 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:36.880 They were just starting to hire at the analyst level 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:38.760 when I was getting done with school. So you know, 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.560 I was originally planning to go join you know, an 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.960 investment bank, or go join McKenzie and try to basically 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:48.200 do the two years prior and then go to business 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.480 school and then you know, go join a private equity 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.560 funder a hedge fund after you know, really with the 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:55.160 thesis that like that's the path that I see successful 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.160 and rich people following, So let me do that. I'm 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.000 gonna do the two years at Goldman Sachs or McKenzie, 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:00.720 I'll do the business school and then and I'll try 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.840 to find a fund. And I met the team at 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.200 Altamont and they were hiring at the analyst level, and 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:09.360 it just seemed like a screaming opportunity to go join 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.760 straight out of school and have the opportunity to, you know, 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.320 really drink from a fire hose, learn in an environment 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.440 where you are having to learn on the fly path 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:19.640 that you know nothing about. 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:24.600 So first you transition from sports to finance. Then you 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:30.440 effectively transition from finance to content creation. We mentioned the 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:34.480 Curiosity Chronicles and full disclosure, I've been subscriber for a 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:38.640 long time. I love how you really pull a lot 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:42.880 of really interesting things from all sorts of disparate subjects 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.839 together in a very cohesive way. And now you have 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:49.640 this book. Tell us about that second transition. 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:54.080 Yeah, this was a more painful one in my own life. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:56.960 I probably for the first four or five years in 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:01.240 my professional career working in private equity, had an incredible 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:05.560 experience and was learning a ton and you know, working 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.440 with a great group of people making money, you know, 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.000 doing the things that I thought a successful life looked like. 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:17.679 And along that path, my own priority set and the 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.559 things that I was focusing on grew more and more 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:25.880 narrow and entirely focused on making money as the means 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.839 to achieving the happy and fulfilling life that I was after. 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:32.600 Let me interrupt you a second just to ask, because 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:37.400 whenever I have this conversation, either on the air or 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:43.040 just talking to people and friends about it, how comfortable 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.480 or not so comfortable was your upbringing? It seems like 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.240 your father's a professor at a college, Like it wasn't 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:52.959 that you really wanted for anything. I'm always curious what 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:57.240 motivates people to what degree to chase the dollar. 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:02.040 Yeah, we were upper middle class, probably by national standards. 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:05.080 My dad's a professor at Harvard, so he wasn't a 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.679 hedge fund guy. We weren't rich. I lived in a town, actually, 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:10.480 I grew up in a town called Weston, Massachusetts, where 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.200 a lot of my friend's parents were really successful in finance, 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.760 and so I was surrounded by people who had made 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:20.839 a lot of money. And it's always relative, right, And 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:22.680 then when I was a kid, I was like really jealous. 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:26.199 Like my best friend growing up had this incredible house, 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.280 his family flew on private jets, they went to all 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.559 these places, and you know, like I was very jealous 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:33.520 of all the things that he had that I didn't. 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:37.000 And I never really questioned the fact that, like I 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.360 would leave after hanging out with him and he would 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.840 have like chef prepared meal by himself in front of 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.640 the TV, and I would get to go home and 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.000 have dinner with my parents around the dinner table. And 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.600 I never questioned whether that actually made me quite rich. 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.360 And you mentioned that in the book, that anecdote and lots, 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:56.840 and we'll talk a lot about the book in a bit, 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:00.320 but I found a lot of the personal anecdote and 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:06.320 stories really compelling and very sincere because they you know, 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:10.720 we all have different lived experiences, but there's an overlap. 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.160 We all share certain types of things. And I very 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.360 much related to a lot of the things you were 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.480 talking about. That story was like you don't know what 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.280 happens behind closed doors, and you don't know what burdens 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:23.240 people are carrying. 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.440 Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's definitely right. I'm glad they 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.280 resonated I. But look, all of this to me was 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:35.240 about my own priorities had grown so narrow to the 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.480 point where I was focusing on the one thing money 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:42.280 at the expense of everything else, and nothing in this 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:44.240 book is to say that money doesn't matter. And I 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.520 really want to be clear about that because I think 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:48.720 there's this common trope of saying, like, you know, you 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:50.400 come out and you say, oh, money doesn't matter. All 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.440 these other things are more important, and look, money matters, 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:56.400 and actually the science is pretty clear on this. You know, 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.160 money does directly buy happiness up to a point. It 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:02.000 reduces fun mental stresses and burdens, It allows you to 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.760 take care of people, create experiences, there's a lot of good. 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.920 Money isn't nothing. It simply can't be the only thing. 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:10.360 And in my own path, and I think on a 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.679 lot of people's paths, we grow so narrowly focused on 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.480 money as the way to this happy, good life and 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.280 we lose sight of the other things. And the reason 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.040 that I propose for that is because money is the 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:25.600 thing that we can measure. And as Peter Drucker, the 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.240 management theorist, said, what gets measured gets managed means you 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:31.440 optimize around the one thing that you can measure. And 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:34.240 so because money is so measurable, it becomes the thing 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.920 that you focus all of your energy and attention around 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.040 and often to the detriment of these other things. Money 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.600 is your life scoreboard, if you will, and so you know, 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.800 you might be winning on that scoreboard, but if that 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.160 scoreboard doesn't capture the bigger picture of your life, you 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.560 may win the battle but lose the much broader war. 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.520 And that was really where I found myself when COVID 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.560 hit in March of twenty twenty. COVID hit, we were 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:00.560 stuck at home, and it was the first time that 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:02.960 I had really zoomed out and been able to kind 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.320 of see and assess my own life. I was making money, 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.600 I was getting promoted, you know, I had some of 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:10.440 the things that you would say or like the trappings 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:14.880 of success, but I was pretty miserable. My relationships, like 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.120 with my parents, I was never seeing them. We lived 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:21.360 three thousand miles away. They're getting older and super close 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.000 to them my whole life, and I just wasn't seeing them. 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.120 My relationship with my sister had ground to a halt. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.559 My wife and I were struggling to conceive at the time, unfortunately, 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:31.839 and that was creating strain in our relationship. My health, 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:33.920 I mean I was drinking six or seven nights a week, 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.640 not you know, raging, but like it had crept up 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.120 on me and that was impacting my sleep, my stress levels. 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.080 All of these areas of my life had started to 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:46.240 suffer because my priorities had gotten so focused in on 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.240 like money being the exclusive thing that was going to 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.800 lead me to the good life. And it all came 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.600 to a head for me. May of twenty twenty one, 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:56.760 I went out for a drink with an old friend 0:13:57.520 --> 0:13:59.200 and we sat down. He asked how I was doing, 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.520 and I said that it had started to get tough 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.240 being as far away from my parents as we were. 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.680 They'd started to get older and I started to notice 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:11.080 their own mortality. And he asked how old they were 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.400 and I said mid sixties. And he asked how often 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.040 I saw them. I said about once a year, and 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.040 he just looked at me and said, okay, so you're 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.400 going to see your parents fifteen more times before they die. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.680 And I just remember feeling like I had been punched 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.560 in the gut. I mean, the idea that the amount 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.080 of time you have left with the people you love 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:36.200 most in the world is so finite, so countable, that 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:38.800 you can put it onto a few hands shook me 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.480 to the core, and I realized in that moment that 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.840 we needed to make a change or we were going 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:46.440 to end up in a place where we didn't want 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.560 to be. And so I told my wife the next 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:50.200 day that I thought we needed to make a move. 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.440 And within forty five days, I had stepped away from 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.040 my full time position at the firm, we had sold 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.080 our house in California and moved three thousand miles to 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.520 be closer to both of our sets of parents. 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.080 That's an amazing story. As I was reading it in 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:10.360 the book, my only reaction was what a devastating realization 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:15.120 to recognize not just your own mortality, but hey, your 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.400 parents are a generation or two older than you. They're 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.960 not here forever. The thought of only seeing them once 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:25.720 a year and then they're gone pretty powerful stuff. 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:31.480 It's powerful and devastating, but also empowering and inspiring. And 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:33.760 the reason I say it's empowering and inspiring is because 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.800 it reminds you that time is your most precious asset. 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.800 It is quite literally the only thing that matters in 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:42.480 the end. And you know, I go ask young people, 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.840 would you trade lives with Warren Buffett? He's worth one 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.360 hundred and thirty billion dollars. He has everything that you want, 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.040 one hundred thirty billion dollars, access to anyone in the world, 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.880 flies around on private jets, you know, mansions all over 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.080 the place. He reads and learns for a living. But 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:59.600 you wouldn't trade lives with him simply because he's ninety. 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:00.200 Five years old. 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.640 There's no way you would agree to trade the amount 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.120 of time you have left for all of the billions 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.040 that he has. And similarly, he would give anything to 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.160 be in your shoes today and have the amount of 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:12.160 time you do. He would give up all of his money. 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.360 And so you know in the back of your mind 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.080 that time has this incalculable value, and yet on a 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.880 daily basis, we sit around wasting it. We scroll around 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.640 on our phones, you know, scrolling on TikTok, looking at 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.120 social media, comparing ourselves to other people, low value, low 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.640 energy tasks. We don't spend time with the people we 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.480 care about. We do all these things that are spitting 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.640 on the value of our most precious asset. And that 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.120 really is the call to action around this idea. It 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.720 is to recognize time as your most precious asset to 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.280 make a change, because the empowering part of all of 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.360 this is you are much more in control of your 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.320 time wealth than you think. We took that number the 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.440 fifteen times before we die. We made a change. It's 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.800 in the hundreds. Now. I see my parents several times 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.080 a month. They're a huge part of my son's their 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.800 grandson's life. We took an action that created time. 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:08.200 So we were talking earlier about something that was really fascinating. 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:13.160 You said, money isn't nothing, but it can't be the 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.879 only thing. And I think that really sums up a 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.720 great amount of insight. So tell us how you win 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:24.960 from kind of being unhappy in your West Coast life 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:28.239 and not seeing your family to writing this book. What 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:29.480 was the motivator here? 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.920 It was a manifestation of my own journey, and that 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:36.439 journey was really to try to understand what was a 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.440 better way to measure our lives. What was a better scoreboard, 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:43.800 if you will, that we could track and measure against. 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:47.520 And the realization there is that when you measure the 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.960 right thing, you take the right actions and you create 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.840 the right outcomes. When you measure for the broader war 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.280 of the life you're trying to live, you will take 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.080 the right actions to win that war. And if all 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:02.400 you're measuring for is the battle of money along the way, 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:05.320 you may win that battle, but you will lose the war. 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.359 And we've seen a lot of people, we all know 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.159 a lot of people who have done that, who have 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:11.920 won the money battle, but they end up with three 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.520 ex wives, they end up with six kids who don't 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.320 want to have anything to do with them, They end 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:20.919 up overweight, in a really bad place mentally. All of 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.119 those things are an example of winning the battle but 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.680 losing the war. And I was determined to not live 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.480 that same fate because it feels very avoidable if you 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.040 are thoughtful about how you design your life along the way. 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:34.160 And so this book is an outflow of that idea. 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.720 It's an outflow of creating the right scoreboard to measure 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.960 the things that matter in your life, to define what 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.320 really matters to you so that you can take actions 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.240 to go and build your life around those things. 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.560 So one of the five types of wealth is time. 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.680 And you spoke earlier about the value of time. How 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.280 do you convince someone in their teens or twenties or 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.439 even thirties, because back then we're all immortal. That's the 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:04.639 advantage of being twenty something Hey, we're going to live forever. 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.800 The elapsing of time is just so abstract. How do 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:12.160 you get them to realize time is a finite asset 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.880 and it's your most valuable asset. 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.879 I love that question that I asked earlier about trading 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.280 lives with Buffett, because it does bring to light the 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:24.440 fact that you do place significant value on your time. 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:26.120 You just don't know it. It's not in the front 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.320 of your mind, you know. And look, I think that 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.000 some of these tools that people have created, like there's 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.320 this calendar, the Momento Mory calendar if you've seen it, 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:36.840 which is you're filling in weeks of your life. So 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.360 it's fifty two, you know, squares across and then it's 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.640 about eighty or ninety squares going down, and so it's 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.399 basically every week of the course of your life, and 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.240 you fill it in so that you get this visual representation, 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:50.480 very visceral, raw real of the amount of time that 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.480 has passed and the amount of time you have left 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:56.399 on average in your life. And that is again a 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.800 little bit morbid, but also a call to action to 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.639 take very seriously every single week because you think about 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.000 if you zoom out and just think about how many 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.359 weeks have you just kind of slept through, done like 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.280 not much, not really remembered anything, not really been present 0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.040 in moments, You've just let them kind of slip by. 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:18.600 They've just come and they've gone. And when you look 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:21.040 at it in the in the perspective of that calendar 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.000 and you say like, well, that's a black mark that 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.800 I'm never going to get back because I was stressing 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.359 about something sillier, I was worried about the future. Thinking 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.679 about the past, it really does draw you into the present. 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:34.440 And so I think that is a really effective way. 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.720 You know, I'm fascinated by a book written by Oliver 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.680