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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Masters in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: This week on the podcast strap Yourself In for another

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Speaker 2: extra special guest, saw Hill bloom is the author of

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Speaker 2: a new book, The Five Types of Wealth. He's also

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Speaker 2: worked in both private equity and finish capital, as well

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Speaker 2: as running his own firm. The book is kind of fascinating,

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Speaker 2: focusing on not just money as a source of wealth,

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Speaker 2: but time, your social life, your mental and psychological attitude,

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Speaker 2: your physical health, as well as your financial wellbeing. That

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Speaker 2: by focusing and only measuring money, we use a scoreboard

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Speaker 2: that really doesn't sum up everything that we should be

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Speaker 2: thinking about. I found a conversation to be really fascinating.

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Speaker 2: The book is really interesting, and saw Hill is really

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Speaker 2: knowledgeable person who's lived for a relatively young person, a

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Speaker 2: fascinating life. Came to a realization that he was wasting

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Speaker 2: his time, his physical health, and a lot of other

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Speaker 2: assets that he had, and kind of rejiggered his whole

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Speaker 2: approach to what he was doing. I thought the discussion

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Speaker 2: was really fascinating, and I think you will also with

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Speaker 2: no further ado. My conversation with saw Hill Bloom, the

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Speaker 2: author of Five Types of Wealth.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled to

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Speaker 3: be able to do this in person.

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Speaker 2: Yet a little unusual sort of building and fun sort

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Speaker 2: of place relative to what you were used to on

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Speaker 2: the West Coast. You relocated to the East coast, right,

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Speaker 2: I did. Yeah, we'll talk about that. Yeah, we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about that because I was very touched by what you

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Speaker 2: wrote in the book about that. Let's start out with

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Speaker 2: your background Stanford bachelor's and economics and sociology and a

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Speaker 2: master's in public policy. What was the career plan?

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Speaker 3: To be honest, I don't think I knew. I've never

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Speaker 3: been a very good planner my entire life. My dad's

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Speaker 3: an economics professor, and so economics seemed like a good

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Speaker 3: undergraduate plan. But frankly, at the time, my real plan

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Speaker 3: was to go play professional baseball. My entire life had

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Speaker 3: been a baseball player. I got a scholarship to play

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Speaker 3: at Stanford, played there, and probably somewhat naively thought that

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Speaker 3: I could go make a career out of it playing

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Speaker 3: in the big leagues, and a shoulder injury my end

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Speaker 3: of my junior season sort of derailed those aspirations, and

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Speaker 3: I had to find my footing in something else.

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Speaker 2: So you're almost lucky it happened sooner than later, right.

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Speaker 3: I think so? I think, you know, in hindsight's twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty on these things, there's always a silver lining, as

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Speaker 3: they say, I think, what would have happened if I

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Speaker 3: had tried to play professionally was I would have ended

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Speaker 3: up spending you know, three, four or five years toiling

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Speaker 3: or in some like bus in the middle of nowhere

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Speaker 3: in the miners, and then ended up having to go

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Speaker 3: start at you know, twenty eight or twenty nine rather

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Speaker 3: than twenty two.

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Speaker 2: Huh. And you worked with Condoalieza Rice as your advisor

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Speaker 2: at Stanford. That sounds pretty fun. What sort of lessons

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Speaker 2: did you learn from her?

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Speaker 3: I mean, she's a remarkable woman politics aside. I mean,

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Speaker 3: a woman who grew up in the Deep South in

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Speaker 3: Alabama and rose to become Secretary of State of the

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Speaker 3: United States of America. I mean just.

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Speaker 2: Mind blowing, pretty impressive.

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Speaker 3: What she actually built and what she created in her life,

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Speaker 3: and the intelligence that she displays in the grace with

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Speaker 3: which she displays it has always wowed me. And I

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Speaker 3: you know, look, I cold emailed her when I was

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Speaker 3: at Stanford to try to ask her to be my

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Speaker 3: master's advisor, and was fortunate that she at least gave

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Speaker 3: me a chance to go speak to her in person

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Speaker 3: and convince her to do that. And I got to

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Speaker 3: take her course that she teaches at Stanford, which was

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Speaker 3: sort of a small group live basically live action seminar

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Speaker 3: where you kind of do these simulations of real world

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Speaker 3: foreign policy events where each person's sort of taking on

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Speaker 3: a different role, and you go through these simulations like

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Speaker 3: get woken up at two in the morning to go

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Speaker 3: through some crisis event. And it was just fascinating to

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Speaker 3: have someone in the room like her who had actually

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Speaker 3: been through those things and hear the stories she told

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Speaker 3: about her battles with Vladimir Putin and whatnot. It was

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Speaker 3: just incredible.

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Speaker 2: I can only imagine you spend all four years at

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Speaker 2: Stanford on a Division one baseball team that's very high level.

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Speaker 2: I always like to ask people to draw parallels. What

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Speaker 2: sort of skills and philosophies did you as a college

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Speaker 2: athlete find applicable to the rest of your life and

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Speaker 2: or wealth and finance.

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Speaker 3: Effectively, every single lesson that I feel I have benefited

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Speaker 3: from in my career was something that I learned in baseball.

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Speaker 3: I think, first off, teamwork and the ability to manage

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Speaker 3: multiple diverse personalities in a single environment is a meta

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Speaker 3: skill for life that rarely gets taught, and a team

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Speaker 3: forces you to learn that very early and very quickly,

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Speaker 3: and if you don't, you will not function as a team.

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Speaker 3: You know, like the understanding that not everyone is wired

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Speaker 3: the same, that not everyone is motivated by the same things.

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Speaker 3: That you need to meet people where they are and

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Speaker 3: then hopefully all rise to the level of the expectations

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Speaker 3: you have as a group. That is really an important

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Speaker 3: lesson to learn for life, you know. Look, the other one,

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Speaker 3: which people talk about often is just the alpha that

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Speaker 3: you can generate through resilience as a human being, and

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Speaker 3: it is very, very difficult to develop in a context

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Speaker 3: outside of sports. And I think that, you know, there's

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Speaker 3: a reason that a lot of athletes and a lot

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Speaker 3: of military former military end up being incredible employees and

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Speaker 3: team members because they have had to battle. They understand

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Speaker 3: that failure is not final, that it's a learning lesson

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Speaker 3: that you can take the event, learn the lesson from it,

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Speaker 3: and move on to the next situation that you face.

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Speaker 2: Right, It's all about process, not outcome. If you have

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Speaker 2: an unlucky bounce and you lose, you still got to

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Speaker 2: get up, dush yourself off, and start all over tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Very applicable to trading desks and other things involved in finance.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it's the combination here that's important. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, we live in a world where, especially today,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people want to focus on the inputs.

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Speaker 3: And you have all these people like, oh, you know,

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Speaker 3: you should really care about the inputs and just focus

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Speaker 3: on feeling proud of the inputs. And I actually agree

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Speaker 3: with that, uh to some extent, because at the end

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Speaker 3: of the day, the world will judge you for your outputs.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't matter whether you feel great about the input

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Speaker 3: the deep work routine, the morning routine, all of the

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Speaker 3: rituals that you had, if your output is and athletes

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Speaker 3: know that, right, we do. We focus on the inputs. Absolutely,

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Speaker 3: you show up at practice every single day, but we

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Speaker 3: also know that no one gets an eighth place metal.

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Speaker 2: There are no participation.

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Speaker 3: No, they're not handing those out. And you have to

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Speaker 3: learn that in life, you know, Like I have a

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Speaker 3: two and a half year old son now and I

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Speaker 3: want him to know that. And it's sort of a

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Speaker 3: harsh truth of the world that like, yes, your inputs matter,

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Speaker 3: and I want you to focus on them and be

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Speaker 3: proud of them and continue to refine them. But at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, you are going to be

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Speaker 3: judged for your outputs.

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Speaker 2: Huh. Really really interesting. So you end up at Altamont

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Speaker 2: Capital Partners, which at the time was running about three

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Speaker 2: and a half billion dollars. How'd you find your way there?

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Speaker 2: What were you doing?

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Speaker 3: So it's a private equity fund in the Bay Area.

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Speaker 3: It was a spin out from a now much larger

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Speaker 3: firm called Golden Gate Capital. Incredible group of people, small group.

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Speaker 3: They were just starting to hire at the analyst level

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Speaker 3: when I was getting done with school. So you know,

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Speaker 3: I was originally planning to go join you know, an

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Speaker 3: investment bank, or go join McKenzie and try to basically

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Speaker 3: do the two years prior and then go to business

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Speaker 3: school and then you know, go join a private equity

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Speaker 3: funder a hedge fund after you know, really with the

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Speaker 3: thesis that like that's the path that I see successful

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Speaker 3: and rich people following, So let me do that. I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna do the two years at Goldman Sachs or McKenzie,

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Speaker 3: I'll do the business school and then and I'll try

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Speaker 3: to find a fund. And I met the team at

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Speaker 3: Altamont and they were hiring at the analyst level, and

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Speaker 3: it just seemed like a screaming opportunity to go join

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Speaker 3: straight out of school and have the opportunity to, you know,

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Speaker 3: really drink from a fire hose, learn in an environment

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Speaker 3: where you are having to learn on the fly path

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Speaker 3: that you know nothing about.

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Speaker 2: So first you transition from sports to finance. Then you

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Speaker 2: effectively transition from finance to content creation. We mentioned the

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Speaker 2: Curiosity Chronicles and full disclosure, I've been subscriber for a

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Speaker 2: long time. I love how you really pull a lot

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Speaker 2: of really interesting things from all sorts of disparate subjects

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Speaker 2: together in a very cohesive way. And now you have

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Speaker 2: this book. Tell us about that second transition.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this was a more painful one in my own life.

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Speaker 3: I probably for the first four or five years in

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Speaker 3: my professional career working in private equity, had an incredible

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Speaker 3: experience and was learning a ton and you know, working

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Speaker 3: with a great group of people making money, you know,

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Speaker 3: doing the things that I thought a successful life looked like.

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Speaker 3: And along that path, my own priority set and the

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Speaker 3: things that I was focusing on grew more and more

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Speaker 3: narrow and entirely focused on making money as the means

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Speaker 3: to achieving the happy and fulfilling life that I was after.

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Speaker 2: Let me interrupt you a second just to ask, because

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Speaker 2: whenever I have this conversation, either on the air or

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Speaker 2: just talking to people and friends about it, how comfortable

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Speaker 2: or not so comfortable was your upbringing? It seems like

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Speaker 2: your father's a professor at a college, Like it wasn't

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Speaker 2: that you really wanted for anything. I'm always curious what

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Speaker 2: motivates people to what degree to chase the dollar.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we were upper middle class, probably by national standards.

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Speaker 3: My dad's a professor at Harvard, so he wasn't a

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Speaker 3: hedge fund guy. We weren't rich. I lived in a town, actually,

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Speaker 3: I grew up in a town called Weston, Massachusetts, where

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Speaker 3: a lot of my friend's parents were really successful in finance,

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Speaker 3: and so I was surrounded by people who had made

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Speaker 3: a lot of money. And it's always relative, right, And

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Speaker 3: then when I was a kid, I was like really jealous.

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Speaker 3: Like my best friend growing up had this incredible house,

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Speaker 3: his family flew on private jets, they went to all

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Speaker 3: these places, and you know, like I was very jealous

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Speaker 3: of all the things that he had that I didn't.

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Speaker 3: And I never really questioned the fact that, like I

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Speaker 3: would leave after hanging out with him and he would

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Speaker 3: have like chef prepared meal by himself in front of

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Speaker 3: the TV, and I would get to go home and

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Speaker 3: have dinner with my parents around the dinner table. And

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Speaker 3: I never questioned whether that actually made me quite rich.

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Speaker 2: And you mentioned that in the book, that anecdote and lots,

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Speaker 2: and we'll talk a lot about the book in a bit,

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Speaker 2: but I found a lot of the personal anecdote and

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Speaker 2: stories really compelling and very sincere because they you know,

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Speaker 2: we all have different lived experiences, but there's an overlap.

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Speaker 2: We all share certain types of things. And I very

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Speaker 2: much related to a lot of the things you were

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Speaker 2: talking about. That story was like you don't know what

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Speaker 2: happens behind closed doors, and you don't know what burdens

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Speaker 2: people are carrying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's definitely right. I'm glad they

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Speaker 3: resonated I. But look, all of this to me was

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Speaker 3: about my own priorities had grown so narrow to the

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Speaker 3: point where I was focusing on the one thing money

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Speaker 3: at the expense of everything else, and nothing in this

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Speaker 3: book is to say that money doesn't matter. And I

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Speaker 3: really want to be clear about that because I think

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Speaker 3: there's this common trope of saying, like, you know, you

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Speaker 3: come out and you say, oh, money doesn't matter. All

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Speaker 3: these other things are more important, and look, money matters,

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Speaker 3: and actually the science is pretty clear on this. You know,

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Speaker 3: money does directly buy happiness up to a point. It

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Speaker 3: reduces fun mental stresses and burdens, It allows you to

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Speaker 3: take care of people, create experiences, there's a lot of good.

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Speaker 3: Money isn't nothing. It simply can't be the only thing.

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Speaker 3: And in my own path, and I think on a

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Speaker 3: lot of people's paths, we grow so narrowly focused on

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Speaker 3: money as the way to this happy, good life and

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Speaker 3: we lose sight of the other things. And the reason

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Speaker 3: that I propose for that is because money is the

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Speaker 3: thing that we can measure. And as Peter Drucker, the

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Speaker 3: management theorist, said, what gets measured gets managed means you

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Speaker 3: optimize around the one thing that you can measure. And

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Speaker 3: so because money is so measurable, it becomes the thing

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Speaker 3: that you focus all of your energy and attention around

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Speaker 3: and often to the detriment of these other things. Money

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Speaker 3: is your life scoreboard, if you will, and so you know,

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Speaker 3: you might be winning on that scoreboard, but if that

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Speaker 3: scoreboard doesn't capture the bigger picture of your life, you

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Speaker 3: may win the battle but lose the much broader war.

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Speaker 3: And that was really where I found myself when COVID

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Speaker 3: hit in March of twenty twenty. COVID hit, we were

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Speaker 3: stuck at home, and it was the first time that

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Speaker 3: I had really zoomed out and been able to kind

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Speaker 3: of see and assess my own life. I was making money,

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Speaker 3: I was getting promoted, you know, I had some of

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Speaker 3: the things that you would say or like the trappings

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Speaker 3: of success, but I was pretty miserable. My relationships, like

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Speaker 3: with my parents, I was never seeing them. We lived

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Speaker 3: three thousand miles away. They're getting older and super close

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Speaker 3: to them my whole life, and I just wasn't seeing them.

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Speaker 3: My relationship with my sister had ground to a halt.

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Speaker 3: My wife and I were struggling to conceive at the time, unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: and that was creating strain in our relationship. My health,

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Speaker 3: I mean I was drinking six or seven nights a week,

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Speaker 3: not you know, raging, but like it had crept up

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Speaker 3: on me and that was impacting my sleep, my stress levels.

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Speaker 3: All of these areas of my life had started to

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Speaker 3: suffer because my priorities had gotten so focused in on

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Speaker 3: like money being the exclusive thing that was going to

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Speaker 3: lead me to the good life. And it all came

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Speaker 3: to a head for me. May of twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 3: I went out for a drink with an old friend

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Speaker 3: and we sat down. He asked how I was doing,

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Speaker 3: and I said that it had started to get tough

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Speaker 3: being as far away from my parents as we were.

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Speaker 3: They'd started to get older and I started to notice

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Speaker 3: their own mortality. And he asked how old they were

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Speaker 3: and I said mid sixties. And he asked how often

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Speaker 3: I saw them. I said about once a year, and

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Speaker 3: he just looked at me and said, okay, so you're

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Speaker 3: going to see your parents fifteen more times before they die.

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Speaker 3: And I just remember feeling like I had been punched

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Speaker 3: in the gut. I mean, the idea that the amount

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Speaker 3: of time you have left with the people you love

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Speaker 3: most in the world is so finite, so countable, that

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Speaker 3: you can put it onto a few hands shook me

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Speaker 3: to the core, and I realized in that moment that

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Speaker 3: we needed to make a change or we were going

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Speaker 3: to end up in a place where we didn't want

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Speaker 3: to be. And so I told my wife the next

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Speaker 3: day that I thought we needed to make a move.

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Speaker 3: And within forty five days, I had stepped away from

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Speaker 3: my full time position at the firm, we had sold

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Speaker 3: our house in California and moved three thousand miles to

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Speaker 3: be closer to both of our sets of parents.

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Speaker 2: That's an amazing story. As I was reading it in

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Speaker 2: the book, my only reaction was what a devastating realization

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Speaker 2: to recognize not just your own mortality, but hey, your

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Speaker 2: parents are a generation or two older than you. They're

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Speaker 2: not here forever. The thought of only seeing them once

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Speaker 2: a year and then they're gone pretty powerful stuff.

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Speaker 3: It's powerful and devastating, but also empowering and inspiring. And

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Speaker 3: the reason I say it's empowering and inspiring is because

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Speaker 3: it reminds you that time is your most precious asset.

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Speaker 3: It is quite literally the only thing that matters in

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Speaker 3: the end. And you know, I go ask young people,

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Speaker 3: would you trade lives with Warren Buffett? He's worth one

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Speaker 3: hundred and thirty billion dollars. He has everything that you want,

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Speaker 3: one hundred thirty billion dollars, access to anyone in the world,

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Speaker 3: flies around on private jets, you know, mansions all over

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Speaker 3: the place. He reads and learns for a living. But

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't trade lives with him simply because he's ninety.

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Speaker 2: Five years old.

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Speaker 3: There's no way you would agree to trade the amount

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Speaker 3: of time you have left for all of the billions

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Speaker 3: that he has. And similarly, he would give anything to

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Speaker 3: be in your shoes today and have the amount of

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Speaker 3: time you do. He would give up all of his money.

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Speaker 3: And so you know in the back of your mind

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Speaker 3: that time has this incalculable value, and yet on a

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Speaker 3: daily basis, we sit around wasting it. We scroll around

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Speaker 3: on our phones, you know, scrolling on TikTok, looking at

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Speaker 3: social media, comparing ourselves to other people, low value, low

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Speaker 3: energy tasks. We don't spend time with the people we

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Speaker 3: care about. We do all these things that are spitting

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Speaker 3: on the value of our most precious asset. And that

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Speaker 3: really is the call to action around this idea. It

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Speaker 3: is to recognize time as your most precious asset to

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Speaker 3: make a change, because the empowering part of all of

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Speaker 3: this is you are much more in control of your

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Speaker 3: time wealth than you think. We took that number the

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Speaker 3: fifteen times before we die. We made a change. It's

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Speaker 3: in the hundreds. Now. I see my parents several times

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Speaker 3: a month. They're a huge part of my son's their

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Speaker 3: grandson's life. We took an action that created time.

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Speaker 2: So we were talking earlier about something that was really fascinating.

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Speaker 2: You said, money isn't nothing, but it can't be the

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Speaker 2: only thing. And I think that really sums up a

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Speaker 2: great amount of insight. So tell us how you win

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Speaker 2: from kind of being unhappy in your West Coast life

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Speaker 2: and not seeing your family to writing this book. What

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Speaker 2: was the motivator here?

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Speaker 3: It was a manifestation of my own journey, and that

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Speaker 3: journey was really to try to understand what was a

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Speaker 3: better way to measure our lives. What was a better scoreboard,

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Speaker 3: if you will, that we could track and measure against.

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Speaker 3: And the realization there is that when you measure the

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Speaker 3: right thing, you take the right actions and you create

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Speaker 3: the right outcomes. When you measure for the broader war

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Speaker 3: of the life you're trying to live, you will take

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Speaker 3: the right actions to win that war. And if all

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Speaker 3: you're measuring for is the battle of money along the way,

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Speaker 3: you may win that battle, but you will lose the war.

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Speaker 3: And we've seen a lot of people, we all know

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Speaker 3: a lot of people who have done that, who have

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Speaker 3: won the money battle, but they end up with three

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Speaker 3: ex wives, they end up with six kids who don't

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Speaker 3: want to have anything to do with them, They end

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Speaker 3: up overweight, in a really bad place mentally. All of

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Speaker 3: those things are an example of winning the battle but

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Speaker 3: losing the war. And I was determined to not live

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Speaker 3: that same fate because it feels very avoidable if you

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Speaker 3: are thoughtful about how you design your life along the way.

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Speaker 3: And so this book is an outflow of that idea.

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Speaker 3: It's an outflow of creating the right scoreboard to measure

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Speaker 3: the things that matter in your life, to define what

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Speaker 3: really matters to you so that you can take actions

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Speaker 3: to go and build your life around those things.

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Speaker 2: So one of the five types of wealth is time.

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Speaker 2: And you spoke earlier about the value of time. How

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Speaker 2: do you convince someone in their teens or twenties or

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Speaker 2: even thirties, because back then we're all immortal. That's the

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Speaker 2: advantage of being twenty something Hey, we're going to live forever.

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Speaker 2: The elapsing of time is just so abstract. How do

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Speaker 2: you get them to realize time is a finite asset

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Speaker 2: and it's your most valuable asset.

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Speaker 3: I love that question that I asked earlier about trading

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Speaker 3: lives with Buffett, because it does bring to light the

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Speaker 3: fact that you do place significant value on your time.

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Speaker 3: You just don't know it. It's not in the front

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Speaker 3: of your mind, you know. And look, I think that

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Speaker 3: some of these tools that people have created, like there's

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Speaker 3: this calendar, the Momento Mory calendar if you've seen it,

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Speaker 3: which is you're filling in weeks of your life. So

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Speaker 3: it's fifty two, you know, squares across and then it's

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Speaker 3: about eighty or ninety squares going down, and so it's

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Speaker 3: basically every week of the course of your life, and

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Speaker 3: you fill it in so that you get this visual representation,

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Speaker 3: very visceral, raw real of the amount of time that

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Speaker 3: has passed and the amount of time you have left

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Speaker 3: on average in your life. And that is again a

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Speaker 3: little bit morbid, but also a call to action to

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Speaker 3: take very seriously every single week because you think about

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Speaker 3: if you zoom out and just think about how many

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Speaker 3: weeks have you just kind of slept through, done like

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Speaker 3: not much, not really remembered anything, not really been present

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Speaker 3: in moments, You've just let them kind of slip by.

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Speaker 3: They've just come and they've gone. And when you look

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Speaker 3: at it in the in the perspective of that calendar

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Speaker 3: and you say like, well, that's a black mark that

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Speaker 3: I'm never going to get back because I was stressing

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Speaker 3: about something sillier, I was worried about the future. Thinking

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Speaker 3: about the past, it really does draw you into the present.

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Speaker 3: And so I think that is a really effective way.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm fascinated by a book written by Oliver

401
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 2: Berkman on your otherat. All you need to do is

402
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Speaker 2: hear the title of the book, four thousand Weeks Time

403
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Speaker 2: Management for Mortals. It's really so amazing in that, you know,

404
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Speaker 2: he talks about human life is insultingly brief, and you're

405
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Speaker 2: talking to the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Oliver is a wonderful modern day philosopher. He has a

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Speaker 3: new book called Meditation for Mortals, which is also similarly fantastic,

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Speaker 3: And I think it is exactly that. Look, I think

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Speaker 3: that time wealth really what it's about is it is

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Speaker 3: the freedom to choose who you spend your time with,

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Speaker 3: where you spend it, how you spend it, when you

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Speaker 3: trade it for other things. It is about freedom, it

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Speaker 3: is about control. And people think that money buys freedom.

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Speaker 3: You think that money buys you that time wealth, but

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Speaker 3: it's not true. I know plenty of people who work

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Speaker 3: eighty to one hundred hour weeks, making ten million dollars

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Speaker 3: a year, all the money in the world, but have

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00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 3: zero freedom, zero control over their calendar, because they've tied

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Speaker 3: themselves into a life where they need to continue working

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Speaker 3: that way, to continue making that money, to continue to

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Speaker 3: feed the lifestyle that they have, and they have no

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Speaker 3: ability if they don't want to work for a month.

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Speaker 3: They can have all the money in the world, but

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Speaker 3: they are stuck in this lifestyle, this treadmill that they're

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Speaker 3: currently on. And so the insight there is that it's

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Speaker 3: not money that buys you free them. It is thoughtfully

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00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 3: designed and invested money that gets you the freedom. It

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Speaker 3: is the actual way that you construct and create your

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Speaker 3: life that has to be free.

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Speaker 2: I love the phrase hedonic treadmill because the blind pursuit

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Speaker 2: of more as opposed to what you describe, which is

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Speaker 2: understanding what enough means really becomes very significant.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. One of my favorite stories is that whole idea

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Speaker 3: of the fisherman and the investment banker. You have a

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Speaker 3: story of an investment banker goes down to a Mexican

437
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 3: fishing village and he comes upon this fisherman who's on

438
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 3: a boat and has caught a few fish, and he says,

439
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 3: how long did it take you to catch those fish?

440
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 3: The fisherman says, only a little while, and the banker

441
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 3: is confused. He says, why didn't you fish for longer?

442
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 3: The fisherman says, well, I have all I need. I

443
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 3: fish for a little while in the morning, catch a

444
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 3: few fish. Then I go home, have lunch with my wife,

445
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 3: take a nap, and then in the evenings I go

446
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 3: into town and drink water and play music and laugh

447
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 3: with my friends. And the banker's like, you're doing this

448
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 3: all wrong. Here's what you have to do. You have

449
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 3: to fish for longer so you can catch more fish.

450
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: Then you use the profits from that to buy a

451
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 3: second boat. You hire people, then they catch fish. Then

452
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 3: you buy a third boat, fourth boat. You create a

453
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 3: huge fishing enterprise. You move to the big city, take

454
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 3: the company public, and you'll make millions. And the fisherman

455
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 3: looks at him and says, and then what, And the

456
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 3: banker says, what do you mean? And then what? Then

457
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 3: you can retire, and you can move to a small

458
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 3: fishing village. You can fish for a few hours in

459
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 3: the morning, and then you can have lunch with your wife,

460
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 3: you take a nap, and then in the evenings you

461
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 3: can go into town drink wine and play music and

462
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 3: laugh with your friends.

463
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 2: And look.

464
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:42,439
Speaker 3: The story is typically interpreted as saying that the banker

465
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 3: is wrong and the fisherman is right, and I actually

466
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 3: disagree with that, and I talk about this in the book.

467
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: What I think the meaning of the story is is

468
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 3: defining your version of a meaningful life and then going

469
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 3: and building your life with actions around those things. For

470
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 3: the banker, his definition of success version of a meaningful

471
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 3: life might be creating something big, creating a bunch of jobs,

472
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 3: creating something around his purpose, creating things of value. For

473
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 3: the fishermen, he's already living his definition of his meaningful life.

474
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,959
Speaker 3: He's already in it, and so neither one of them

475
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 3: is right or wrong. It's about really figuring out where

476
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 3: you are on that spectrum from fishermen to investment banker

477
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 3: and then going and taking action to actually create your

478
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: life around that definition.

479
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 2: So you described this as the scoreboard problem in the book.

480
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 2: It seems that today, more than ever, the scoreboard problem

481
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 2: has become very prevalent. Why do you think that is?

482
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 3: We are obsessed with tracking and measuring ourselves, and I

483
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 3: think in a world of you know, in a world

484
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 3: where our ability to do that on a real time

485
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 3: basis has become more and more readily available, we become

486
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,400
Speaker 3: more and more obsessed. Right Like when you were young,

487
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 3: you could not track your net worth down to them.

488
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 3: You probably just couldn't. I mean, at some point, you know,

489
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 3: if you were buying stock in a company, like you

490
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 3: had to check the daily thing that came up in

491
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 3: the newspaper, like when my dad was a kid, versus

492
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 3: now literally instantaneously you can see changes in your network

493
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 3: on your phone, on your phone, on any of the things.

494
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 3: And I have friends who are obsessed with just checking

495
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 3: that over and over and over again and so again,

496
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 3: when you were measuring that, you are going to focus

497
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 3: on it. It's going to consume all of your energy.

498
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 3: And we are we are wired to want to see

499
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 3: the number go up, so we take actions to do that.

500
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,160
Speaker 3: But if the actions to do that are actually pulling

501
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 3: you away from your longer term goal in other areas,

502
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 3: then that's not positive. And that comes from the fact

503
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: that the scoreboard is incomplete. It's not that the scoreboard

504
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 3: is completely wrong, it is that it is incomplete. It

505
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 3: is only around money. We need to measure these other

506
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 3: areas of life, the other four types of wealth in the.

507
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: Book, So let's talk about other ways of measuring things.

508
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 2: For the book, you interviewed a lot of folks older

509
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 2: in their life seventies, eighties, ninety years old, and a

510
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 2: lot of the answers were kind of fascinating. What surprised

511
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 2: you when in the answers you got I think.

512
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: The most surprising thing or interesting thing was everyone sort

513
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 3: of wants the same thing and it has very little

514
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: to do with money. Money is sort of a tool,

515
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,880
Speaker 3: but not the goal, which is surprising as a young

516
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 3: person to hear that, because when you're young, you're barraged

517
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 3: and bombarded by information that's like, oh, you know, money, money, money, right,

518
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 3: fast cars, watches, all these fancy things, that's how you're

519
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 3: gonna be happy. But what you learn when you talk

520
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: to people at the end, and the advice they would

521
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 3: give to their younger selves is always basically around four things. Time, people, purpose,

522
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 3: and health. Those are the four things that come up

523
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 3: again and again. Money is an enabler to some of those,

524
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 3: but it is not an end in and of itself.

525
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 3: If you ask young people to define their ideal day

526
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 3: at age eighty, no one talks about being on a

527
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 3: private jet by themselves, right. You talk about being in

528
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 3: a place surrounded by people you love, healthy of body

529
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: and mind, feeling some sort of meaning or purpose in

530
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: the things that you're doing. So it's really about that freedom,

531
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 3: it's really about the people, it's really about your health,

532
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 3: it's about your purpose. Those are the things that were

533
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 3: actually after But then when you ask those people what

534
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 3: they're doing on a daily basis to create that future,

535
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: it couldn't be more disjointed. The actions actually aren't leading

536
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 3: you to that future you're trying to create for yourself.

537
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 2: You mentioned the private jet or the car, or the

538
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 2: watch of the boat. I love the line in the

539
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: book there's always going to be a bigger boat. Tell

540
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: us about that.

541
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 3: This is a story from a friend who had sold

542
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 3: his company and made a whole lot of money, you know,

543
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 3: tens maybe one hundred million dollars. And after the event,

544
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 3: he had decided to take a bunch of his closest

545
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 3: family and friends on this yacht trip. He was going

546
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: to rent this yacht for a week and take everyone

547
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: as a celebration, and he was so excited. It was

548
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 3: so gratifying to him to be able to have created

549
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 3: this moment for everyone. And everyone arrives to go get

550
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 3: on this beautiful boat, and one of his friends as

551
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 3: he walks up, looks over at the mooring next to

552
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 3: it and sees this way bigger boat and says, wow,

553
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: I wonder who's on that boat, pointing over at it,

554
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 3: And in that moment, all of the joy of the

555
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: experience that my friend had felt melted in the face

556
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 3: of this comparison to this boat. At the next morning,

557
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 3: and the lesson there is a very powerful one, which

558
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 3: is there's always going to be a bigger boat. If

559
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 3: you define all of your worth and success and meaning

560
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 3: around money, there is always going to be a bigger boat.

561
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 2: Let me give you a corollary to that. As a boater,

562
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 2: there's an old joke. Every boater's favorite boat is his

563
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: second to last boat. And what that means is like

564
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 2: my first boat was a little dinghy a cost me nothing.

565
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: I ended up buying it for a few hundred bucks.

566
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: You save a couple of bucks, you get a little

567
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: boat with an appboard. During the financial crisis, I bought

568
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 2: a twenty five four foot bow Rider that was a

569
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: short sale. In other words, you're buying it before the

570
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: bank repossesses it, just paying off the balance. And you know,

571
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: I've been looking at thirty foot boats. I've been looking

572
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 2: at I know at friends we're looking at forty foot boats.

573
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: And that line means if you're not happy with what

574
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: you have, and you just keep going for bigger and

575
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: bigger and bigger, eventually you just go right past the

576
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: perfect thing that solves your desires, wants, needs and use case.

577
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 2: But it's more expensive, it's more complicated, it's harder to

578
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 2: handle some of these boats. They require a crew, and

579
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: you forget, Hey, I just bought this boat to go out,

580
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: have a couple of beers with friends, hang out on

581
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: a Sunday afternoon on the Sound. Every boater's favorite boat

582
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: is their second to last boat. It's I love that

583
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: it's very much along the same lines.

584
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 3: My wife and I talk about this a lot that

585
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 3: all of these sort of quote unquote upgrades that we

586
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 3: think were to make in life are running the risk

587
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 3: of buying yourself a headache. I mean, the house you

588
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 3: go buy, the second home you buy, ends up being

589
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 3: the second home you complain about. I don't know a

590
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 3: single person actually that has a second home that doesn't

591
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: complain about some aspect of owning a second home. And so,

592
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 3: like the thing that you bought thinking oh, it was

593
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 3: going to be this amazing set of experiences, you have

594
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 3: to be comfortable with the knowledge that it may just

595
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 3: end up being that headache that you just bought for

596
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: yourself in your life. And so I often think about

597
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 3: the value that comes from just avoiding unforced errors in life,

598
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,479
Speaker 3: like you know that Charlie Monger, know where you're gonna die,

599
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 3: so that you never go there. And I sometimes think

600
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 3: that like these things that we stretch for thinking that

601
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 3: they are going to materially improve our life or happiness

602
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 3: end up actually being the thing that detracts from it.

603
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: I love the story in the book about Joseph Heller

604
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 2: and Kurt Vonnegut, two of my favorite authors. Catch twenty

605
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: two and slaughter House five. Tell us a little bit

606
00:30:58,560 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: about that story.

607
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: That's one of my favorite stories, and it's very simple,

608
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: which is that Vonnagut and Heller were at the home

609
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 3: of this billionaire and Vonnaguet says to Heller, Joe, how

610
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 3: does it feel that just yesterday the owner of this

611
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 3: home made more money than your famous book Catch twenty

612
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 3: two made in its entire lifetime. And Heller replies, yes,

613
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 3: but I've got something he'll never have, And Vonnaguet says, yeah,

614
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 3: what's that? And Joseph Heller just says, the knowledge that

615
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 3: I've got enough, And that idea of enough is really

616
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 3: at the heart of this entire book. Really defining what

617
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 3: enough means to you and having that clear as a

618
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 3: picture in your mind is so important, because in the

619
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 3: absence of that knowledge, you just chase whatever more the

620
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 3: world tells you you should want.

621
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,239
Speaker 2: Huh, really, really very fascinating. Let's talk a little bit

622
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 2: about fomo. We talked about the bigger boat. You kind

623
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: of went through your do I call it quarter life

624
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: crist Is During the pandemic, seems like fomo was rampant.

625
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: Between bitcoin and meme stocks and just all the other

626
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: Mayhem that was going on. What advice would you give,

627
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: especially to a younger person who seems to be experiencing Hey,

628
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: everybody else has these great things and I don't have.

629
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 3: Them disconnect more often. I think that a lot of

630
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 3: FOMO in the modern day is driven by these things

631
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 3: that we carry in our pockets and the fact that

632
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 3: we're connected at all times to this constant dopamine drip

633
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 3: of information, which frankly is designed to convince you that

634
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 3: you are not doing enough, that you are not doing

635
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 3: the right things that you should be with someone else

636
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 3: doing something else, you know, thinking something else. That is

637
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 3: what gets clicks and what gets shared on social media,

638
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 3: and so that's what you were hit with. And that

639
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 3: is really dangerous because you know, look, it convinces you

640
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: to make bad short term decisions. We all know this

641
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: that the most valuable things in life, the reason they

642
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 3: are so valuable is because they are hard to earn.

643
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 3: There's no such thing as a shortcut or a hack

644
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 3: to achieve the most meaningful things in life. You cannot

645
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: build a meaningful business overnight, you cannot build a meaningful relationship,

646
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 3: you can't build a healthy body. These things have to

647
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 3: be hard. That is why they are valuable. If they

648
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: weren't so hard, you actually wouldn't value them as much.

649
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 3: And yet you live in a world where everyone is

650
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 3: seeking the shortcut or the cheat code or the hack

651
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 3: or the quick way to make a million dollars or

652
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 3: ten million dollars. And look, I just saw this incredible

653
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 3: chart that showed that the amount of money that each

654
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 3: generation thinks it requires to make it. And it was

655
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 3: like a chart that basically showed that all the other

656
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 3: generations like boomers, you know, on through millennials, it was

657
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 3: like around two hundred thousand dollars or issh a year,

658
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 3: and then gen Z said, like six hundred thousand is

659
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 3: what you need to make. So there's this crazy thing

660
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: that's happening in terms of our expectations of what we

661
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 3: should be earning. And also, by the way, eighty percent

662
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 3: of the gen Zers that were interviewed said that they

663
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 3: thought they would do that. So you have this like

664
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 3: insane expectation that has been created by social media of

665
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 3: how easy it is to make money, and this loss

666
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 3: of the understanding that the only way to make money

667
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 3: is to create value. You create value and you receive value.

668
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 3: The only way to make a lot of money is

669
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 3: to create a lot of value and capture a little

670
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 3: portion of that along the way. And so really the

671
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 3: entire focus needs to just be identify a problem, create

672
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 3: a solution, and then scale that solution. The more scalable,

673
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 3: the more money you'll make.

674
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 2: Huh. Really quite fascinating. So you and I both agree

675
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 2: social media is fairly toxic. I'm curious how significant is

676
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,959
Speaker 2: the impact on our psychological wealth and on our social wealth.

677
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 3: It can be a force for good. And look, you're

678
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 3: talking to someone who has made a career out of

679
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 3: being on social media in some way. And I think

680
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 3: that the difference is whether the content that's being shared

681
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 3: is designed to educate and create value versus make you

682
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 3: feel like you're not enough, make you feel like you're

683
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 3: not doing enough, or it's trying to, you know, sell

684
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 3: some sort of course or community to convince you that

685
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,479
Speaker 3: you can get rich quickly, which are clearly bad things.

686
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 2: I want to get rich trading, just take my course.

687
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. And by the way, that's the whole meme

688
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 3: of like the person that's standing in front of the

689
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 3: private jet telling you that you can get rich trading.

690
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 3: They got rich by selling you the course, not by

691
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 3: actually trading. And look, there's an entire legacy of people

692
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 3: that have done that very successfully, by the way, because

693
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 3: it's a tried and true business model apparently, but it's

694
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 3: it's sad. Jonathan Hate you know, Anxious Generation just published

695
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 3: this incredible book, published a book on the exact thing

696
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 3: of just how detrimental social media has been to our

697
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 3: youngest generation. In particular, I recently saw a stat that

698
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 3: teenagers in the United States are spending seventy percent less

699
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 3: time in person with their friends than they were two

700
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 3: decades ago. It's terrifying, amazing, I mean terrifying statistics. And look,

701
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 3: we know scientifically that relationships are the key to a happy,

702
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 3: healthy life. The Harvard Study of Adult Development, this amazing

703
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 3: study done over the course of eighty five years. They

704
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 3: followed the lives of thirteen hundred original participants in about

705
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 3: seven hundred of their descendants. They found that the single

706
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 3: greatest predictor of physical health at age eighty was relationship satisfaction.

707
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 2: At age fifty, physical health, not even mental physical health.

708
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 3: Your actual healthy aging was determined by your relationship satisfaction

709
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 3: in your youth. And it wasn't your blood pressure. It

710
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 3: wasn't your cholesterol, it wasn't your smoking or drinking habits.

711
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 3: It was how you felt about the people in your life.

712
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 3: And so not investing in your social wealth, as I

713
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 3: talk about it in the book, is something that is

714
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 3: going to come back and hurt you. And I say

715
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 3: investing because that's a very important meta term for the

716
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: entire book. We all know Bloomberg Radio. You know the

717
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 3: power of investing in financial assets. You know that if

718
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 3: you invest one hundred dollars today, it's going to compound

719
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 3: in value in your life into the future. You know

720
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 3: that investing one hundred dollars today is better than zero

721
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 3: dollars today because of that compounding that applies to every

722
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 3: single area of your life. Investing a little bit in

723
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 3: your relationships today will compound in value in those relationships

724
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 3: for the long term. And your relationships, I would argue,

725
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 3: are the single greatest investment you can make. They will

726
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 3: pay dividends in your health and in your happiness for

727
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 3: your entire life.

728
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 2: Last point on social media and the toxicity. Morgan Houselites

729
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 2: likes to point out, you see the big house down

730
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 2: the street and the really nice cars in the driveway,

731
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 2: that's what's visible. What you don't see is the actual

732
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: debt those people are carrying to pay for that. You

733
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: don't know. Are they buying that with cash? Are they

734
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: out over their skis. That doesn't show up on social media.

735
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 2: You don't see that on Instagram or TikTok. All you

736
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 2: see are the trappings of wealth and not what that's

737
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 2: actually doing to those people.

738
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you also, you just have to know that you

739
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 3: know when people are status signaling in those ways with

740
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 3: bot status. I talk about in the book. The difference

741
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 3: between bot status and earned status status is important. It's

742
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 3: part of our social hierarchy, how we operate as human beings. Really,

743
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 3: what we're seeking is to have respect and admiration from

744
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 3: people that we care about. And people think they can

745
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 3: buy that, but you cannot. No one is giving you

746
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 3: the lasting, durable respect and admiration for buying a fancy thing.

747
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 3: No one cares, because then we would respect and admire

748
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 3: lottery winners more than anyone else in the world. Look,

749
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 3: you made a billion dollars, Okay, Now I respect and

750
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 3: admire you know. That's not how it works a CEO.

751
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 3: If you want a CEO to respect you, you have

752
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 3: to build something. You have to build something meaningful to

753
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 3: earn the respect of that person. So that is earned status.

754
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 3: It is working on things that you have to earn.

755
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 3: That's why I say that a fit physique is a

756
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 3: better flex than a rolex on your wrist. It's just

757
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 3: the reality because you have to earn it. And so

758
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: people that see you know certain things about you, about

759
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 3: the way that you operate as a human being, that

760
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 3: confers upon you the respect and admiration that you seek,

761
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 3: much more than any fancy thing that you can buy.

762
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 2: Huh, really really really fascinating. You know. One of the

763
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 2: things that quote my eye in the book was the

764
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 2: blurb by Tim Cook, CEO of Apple, who's called the

765
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: book a quote powerful call to action. First of all,

766
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 2: how did you get the book in his hands?

767
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 3: The way that I know Tim might make you want

768
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 3: to buy more Apple stock. I am not an investor

769
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 3: in Apple. I don't own any Apple stock other than

770
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 3: via like s and P five hundred index funds. But

771
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 3: I am a huge, huge fan of Tim's as a

772
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 3: human being. I met him originally in twenty fourteen when

773
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: I first started took my first job. I was working

774
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 3: out at the gym at four forty five in the

775
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 3: morning every single day. He was one of five other

776
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 3: people that was crazy enough to show up at the

777
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 3: gym at four forty five every single day to this day,

778
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 3: I know that he continues and maintains that habit. I'llbeit

779
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 3: at private facility now because he's a big enough figure

780
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 3: that he cannot go to a public gym in the

781
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 3: way that he did then. But it ended up sparking

782
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 3: a friendship and a mentorship that has lasted through these

783
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 3: years he's been He was an incredible force in giving

784
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 3: me the courage to leave the path that I was

785
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 3: on and walk down this non traditional one, and was

786
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 3: kind enough to read and provide that blurbo of support

787
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 3: for the book.

788
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 2: That's an amazing story. I like, I'm curious, how did

789
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 2: other people treat Tim Cook then COO now CEO of

790
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 2: Apple when he's in the gym he was I.

791
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 3: Think in twenty fourteen, you'd have to fact check me

792
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 3: on this. I think he was the new CEO. I

793
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 3: think maybe the year before he'd become CEO. He was

794
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 3: not treated any differently than anyone in the gym in

795
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 3: that setting, and to the point where I didn't know

796
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 3: who he was for six months. I was talking to

797
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 3: him every day. I wasn't in tech, I wasn't like

798
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 3: in that world. And he doesn't look the way he

799
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 3: looks on stage when he's working out in the gym

800
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 3: in the morning. And so I talk to him every

801
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 3: day for about six months before I knew who he was.

802
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 2: That's amazing. Yeah, And I you know, I have learned

803
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 2: in this gig that when you speak to people like that,

804
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 2: like the regular people, they really appreciate it. They don't

805
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: want to be formed over most of them don't want

806
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: to be formed over. A few of them do. So

807
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: you're just chatting this guy up for six months.

808
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean the thing you learn about people

809
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,720
Speaker 3: that have, you know, achieved on that level of success,

810
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 3: is that their entire life is is actually quite lonely

811
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 3: in the sense that everyone that they meet wants something.

812
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 3: Every one that they meet is coming to them with

813
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 3: a handout. And so I actually think it's rare that

814
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 3: they can find environments where they can just feel like

815
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 3: a normal person in that way. And Tim is a

816
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 3: quite introverted person just as a human being. And so

817
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 3: it's actually interesting having seen his journey now he wasn't

818
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 3: as famous then as he is now. I you know,

819
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 3: went to the Berkshire Hathaway Annual meeting last year with him,

820
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 3: and when we walked into the arena to go take

821
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 3: our seats, it was like walking in somewhere with Justin Bieber.

822
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 3: I mean, like I've never experienced anything like that, say

823
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 3: in terms of the people rushing circling the you know,

824
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 3: like it is a very different life than at the

825
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 3: time when he didn't even need security at the time,

826
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 3: like there wasn't a fanfare around it. You know, it

827
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 3: very quickly did start to change. By like twenty seventeen

828
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, he had become more prominent. People were starting

829
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 3: to like come up to him at the gym and

830
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 3: pitch him on things, et cetera. And so, you know,

831
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 3: I think then his life really started to change based

832
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,720
Speaker 3: on the growth that they had experienced.

833
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,799
Speaker 2: So six months later you figure out, oh, this guy

834
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: in the gym turns out to be the CEO of

835
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: the biggest company in the world. What's the next conversation,

836
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 2: Like I just.

837
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 3: I don't remember there being a next conversation that was

838
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 3: particularly significant, but I did ask him if he'd be

839
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 3: willing to grab breakfast and just chat about my career

840
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,399
Speaker 3: and things that I was trying to learn. I wasn't

841
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 3: looking for a job, so I was very clear, You're like,

842
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 3: I'm not pitching you on something. I would just love

843
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 3: to learn from you. And I think that stands out,

844
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 3: like in a world of people that are very short

845
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 3: term focused and looking for the transaction the networking, right,

846
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 3: I've just never been someone that believes in networking. I

847
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 3: really build and I believe in building fifty year relationships

848
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 3: with people. And I think in ten years of knowing Tim,

849
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 3: the number of times we've talked about Apple, I can

850
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 3: probably count on like one hand. I just don't I

851
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 3: don't really care to be like I'm not. I said,

852
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 3: I don't own stocks.

853
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 2: Like you're wearing a garment watch, I shudn't.

854
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 3: Tell He'll get mad at me. I'm wearing a Chorros Yeah,

855
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 3: running watch. He'd probably get mad at me. I just

856
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 3: don't really care. What I really care about is learning

857
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 3: from people, and he has incredible access to people and

858
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 3: stories and his understanding of geopolitics, which is an area

859
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 3: I have extreme interest in given my public policy background.

860
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 3: I just feel like I learned so much from being

861
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 3: around him. Plus he's someone that has navigated some incredible

862
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 3: different changes in his own life. In his path, he

863
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 3: was on a traditional path at IB stepped off it

864
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,959
Speaker 3: to go to this computer startup Compac, then got picked

865
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 3: up by Steve Jobs at Apple. And I can benefit

866
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 3: so much from just learning and understanding from being around

867
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 3: someone like that.

868
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 2: And I could tell you firsthand, I have a number

869
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 2: of friends who have kids who are gay or lesbians.

870
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:23,439
Speaker 2: And I recall the statement he released not long after

871
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:24,959
Speaker 2: that I remember was fifteen.

872
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 3: Or twenty fifteen, sixteen.

873
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that people when we subsequently discussed it, said hey,

874
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 2: they have friends who were you know, depressed, suicidal and

875
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 2: tim coming and saying what he said made a huge

876
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: difference to a lot of young people's lives. It really,

877
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 2: it really was. I don't know how often we all

878
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 2: get to move the needle that much, but it was

879
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 2: so impactful for so many families. All Right, So I

880
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: know I only have you for a limited amount of

881
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: time before I get to my favorite questions that I

882
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 2: ask all of my guests. I have a couple of

883
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: curveballs to throw to you. And if I could have

884
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 2: thrown a carve ball, I would probably have been a

885
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: pitcher on the varsity team, but didn't have that skill.

886
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: I love this line in your Twitter bio. Gave up

887
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 2: a grand Slam on ESPN and twenty twelve and still

888
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 2: waiting for it to land.

889
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: Discuss, Yeah, this is my last hurrah. Maybe it's me

890
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 3: trying to relive the glory or anti glory days. I

891
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 3: was a pitcher at Stanford and this was in the

892
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 3: NCAA Superregionals, which is the final sixteen teams in the country.

893
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 3: And I came into this game at Florida State on ESPN,

894
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 3: my whole family watching all my friends from home, so

895
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 3: excited that I'm pitching on national television, and I gave

896
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 3: up a monster grand slam that ended the game effectively,

897
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 3: and we lost and had to go home. And the

898
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 3: funniest part about it was, like, you know, I was

899
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: obviously destroyed, and I'm at the team hotel after I'm

900
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 3: really upset, and I get a text from one of

901
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 3: my best friends in the world just saying like, hey, man,

902
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 3: say flight home. Hope the plane doesn't get hit by

903
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 3: that home run you just gave up. So was the

904
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 3: guy who hit the home I think his name was

905
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: Seth Miller. If I were to recall and I don't

906
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 3: think he ended up having a baseball career. He's probably

907
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 3: somewhere out there, so if he hears this shout out

908
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 3: Seth Miller.

909
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the other curveball. In the book, you explain

910
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 2: you're half Jewish, half Indians, so no parental pressure there.

911
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 2: But you tell this very poignant story about your father

912
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 2: who's Jewish, telling his parents he's gonna date or marry

913
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:47,479
Speaker 2: a woman who's Indian and he never sees them again.

914
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: Tell us about that. Yeah.

915
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 3: My mom was born and raised in Bangalore, India. My

916
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,919
Speaker 3: dad from a Jewish family in the Bronx, New York.

917
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 3: And when they crossed paths at Princeton University, basically a

918
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 3: two week period that they crossed over there, my dad

919
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 3: was finishing his PhD. My mom was just starting a

920
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 3: master's there and they went on a date and my

921
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 3: dad told my mom my parents will never accept us.

922
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 3: And my mom was so blinded by the use of

923
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 3: the word us that she completely missed the message. And

924
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 3: unfortunately he was right. His father was not accepting and

925
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 3: told him that he had to choose between my mom

926
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 3: and his family, and he walked out the door. And

927
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 3: to this day I never met my dad's parents. His

928
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: father passed away many years ago. I believe his mother's

929
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 3: still alive. He has three siblings I've never met, first

930
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 3: cousins that I've never met, And you know, in the

931
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 3: midst of something very sad, there was something very beautiful

932
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,280
Speaker 3: that came from it, which was this decision to reject

933
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 3: common convention and choose love. Was a decision that had

934
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,760
Speaker 3: ripple effects through my entire life and really is ingrained

935
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 3: in my DNA, and I am very grateful for that.

936
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 2: To say nothing about your entire existence correct being ode

937
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 2: to your dad's decision. But I found that part of

938
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: the book to be very poignant, very touching, and that

939
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 2: sort of tone and sincere recognition of the world just

940
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: permeates the whole book, and I found it really very

941
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,720
Speaker 2: honest and very interesting throughout. Let's jump to our favorite

942
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 2: questions that we ask all of our guests, starting with

943
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 2: what are you streaming these days? What are you listening to?

944
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 2: What's just keeping you entertained?

945
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 3: My wife and I are really enjoying the new season

946
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 3: of Dexter. Really, yeah, Dexter. I think it's like New

947
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 3: Beginnings or something like that. Yeah, it's great. I loved

948
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 3: Dexter back in the day. So this new new take

949
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,399
Speaker 3: on his childhood years is really good.

950
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,720
Speaker 2: Let's talk about mentors who helped shape your career.

951
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 3: We talked about Tim Cook. He's been an incredible mentor

952
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 3: on this journey and you know, felt a lot of

953
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 3: courage to take this different and unique path through him.

954
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 2: Really interesting. What about some books. What are your favorites?

955
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 2: What are you reading right now?

956
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 3: I would say When Breath Becomes Air is the most

957
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 3: powerful book that I've read.

958
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 2: Why do I know that? Who wrote that?

959
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 3: Paul Kallanathy. He was a Stanford neurosurgeon who got diagnosed

960
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 3: with terminal cancer and he wrote the book in the

961
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 3: last year of his life. You know, everyone says man

962
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 3: Search for Meeting. I think Man Search for Meeting is wonderful.

963
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 3: I actually think When Breath Becomes Air is a more

964
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 3: impactful book for the modern era.

965
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 2: Anything else and any other things you're reading currently?

966
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 3: Currently I read a lot of sci fi, to be honest,

967
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 3: let's go to talking to you. Preach into the Choir project.

968
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,120
Speaker 3: Hail Mary was one of my favorites. Andy Weir, He's

969
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 3: the author of The Martian, among other things. That's fantastic.

970
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 3: If you're looking for a short story that you can

971
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 3: read in five minutes, go read The Egg by Andy Weir.

972
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 3: You can find it anywhere online. It's incredible.

973
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 2: Huh, really really interesting. Our final two questions what sort

974
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 2: of advice would you give to a recent college grad

975
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 2: interesting in a career in either private equity, finance or

976
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 2: content creation?

977
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 3: Create value? Just focus on creating value. If you create

978
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 3: value for the people around you, you will receive value

979
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 3: in return. You will always find success. And if you

980
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 3: can do that while just becoming a reliable person, I

981
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,919
Speaker 3: think that is the most important thing. My grandfather gave

982
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 3: me a piece of advice when I was younger, and

983
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 3: he said, you will achieve more by being consistently reliable

984
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,240
Speaker 3: than by being occasionally extraordinary. And I've never forgotten.

985
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 2: Uh, that's a great line. And I'm trying to figure

986
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: out how to make this final question applicable to you,

987
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 2: because really the answer is this book, But I'll ask

988
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: it anyway. What do you know about the world today

989
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,839
Speaker 2: You wish you knew twenty or so years ago when

990
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 2: you were first getting started.

991
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 3: That you don't need to accept the default definitions of

992
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 3: success that are handed to you. That you can carve

993
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 3: your own way. You can build a life around the

994
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 3: things that truly matter to you, not what everyone tells

995
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 3: you should matter.

996
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 2: Thank you so Hill for being so generous with your time.

997
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 2: We have been speaking with Sohill Bloom, author of The

998
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 2: Five Types of Wealth of Transformative Guide to Design your

999
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,919
Speaker 2: Dream Life. If you enjoy this conversation, check out any

1000
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 2: of the five hundred previous podcasts we've done over the

1001
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 2: past ten years. You can find those at iTunes, Spotify, YouTube,

1002
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 2: wherever you find your favorite podcast, and be sure to

1003
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,840
Speaker 2: check out my new book How Not to Invest The ideas, numbers,

1004
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 2: and behaviors that Destroy Wealth, coming March eighteenth. I would

1005
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: be remiss if I did not thank the Crack team

1006
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 2: that helps with these conversations together each week. Meredith Frank

1007
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 2: is my audio engineer. Sean Russo is my head of research.

1008
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,439
Speaker 2: Anna Luke is my producer. Sage Bauman is the head

1009
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 2: of podcasts at Bloomberg. I'm Barrier Faultz. You've been listening

1010
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,760
Speaker 2: to Master's Business on Bloomberg Radio.

1011
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:08,800
Speaker 3: H