1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: I'm George Severis and I'm Julia Clair, and this is 2 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: United States of Kennedy, a podcast about our cultural fascination 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week we go into one 4 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: aspect of the Kennedy story. And today we are taking 5 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: a little break from our regularly scheduled programming to talk 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: about something that's been in the news lately that is 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: right up our alley. 8 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: And no, we're not talking about RFK Junior's erotic poetry 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 2: or his recent decision to change the CDC websites language 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 2: on vaccines and autism. 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: We are talking about something a little less alarming than that, 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: which is that one of our favorite characters here on 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: United States of Kennedy, Jack Schlasberg, JFK's only grandson, has 14 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: announced that he is running for Congress in New York. 15 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: Schlasberg is one of over ten people currently running to 16 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,319 Speaker 2: replace Jerry Nadler in New York's twelfth congressional district. This 17 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: is the wealthiest district in New York and a huge 18 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: Democratic stronghold. According to the New York Times quote, it 19 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 2: offers immediate access to the city's concentration of wealthy donors, 20 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,199 Speaker 2: media giants, and democratic top Brass. 21 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: So we've talked about Schlasberg before on the podcast, mostly 22 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: as a sort of confounding curiosity. This very strange, very 23 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four twenty twenty five social media star. So 24 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: he's posting shirtless videos of himself singing and dancing. Then 25 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: he's starting fights with his cousin RFK Junior. He is 26 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: talking about how the Democratic Party needs to move on 27 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: from old men, and he's endorsing Zarnmmdani in the New 28 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: York mamurial election. And then there is the sort of 29 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: more trollish part of him. He once, of course tweeted 30 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: to his followers asking if Usha Vans is hotter than 31 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: his own grandmother, Jacqueline Kennedy. And when he's confronted about 32 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: this behavior, he claims that it is all a strategic 33 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: ploy to get people to talking about politics and reclaim 34 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: the attention economy from the Republicans. 35 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 3: I mean, clearly, he's a genius. 36 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 2: But today we wanted to talk more specifically about his 37 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: foray into electoral politics and what the race might look 38 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 2: like for him to do that. We are joined by 39 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 2: Washington Post political features writer Kara Vote Okay. 40 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: Hello, Kara, So let's get into it. Almost exactly a 41 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: year ago today, you wrote this big piece in the 42 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: Washington Post on Jack Schlossberg titled we don't know Jack, 43 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: and I want to know what led to that piece 44 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: and what the experience of trying to chase him down. 45 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 3: Was, like, thank you for asking. As I write in 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 3: the piece, I encountered Jack the way I'm sure all 47 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 3: of you did, which is on the internet. And I 48 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: can't remember exactly what led me to it, but I 49 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 3: think it was the videos of him doing the various 50 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: impressions of New Yorkers who do not want to vote 51 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 3: for Robert F. Kennedy Junior for president. This was back 52 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 3: in I think it was April or May. 53 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: Yes, and there were a lot of accents from what 54 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: I remember that some people took issue with. You know, 55 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: Julia and I in past lives work comedians, so we 56 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: are obviously very well versed in sort of character work, 57 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 1: and we really appreciate the intent, right. 58 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 3: There was definitely some blowback. I think the New York 59 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 3: Times headline on him doing that was like offensive accents 60 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 3: from the Kennedy scion, which was funny to me because 61 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 3: they totally missed the point. But I will also say 62 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 3: that missing the point was why I was so intrigued 63 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:33,959 Speaker 3: by Jack, because I feel like I got the bit. 64 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 3: I feel like I understood what he was doing, that 65 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 3: he was lending this political heritage, this really American idealism 66 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 3: that anyone who knows the Kennedys has come to admire, 67 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 3: lending it to this new way of doing politics. And 68 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 3: I thought, holy shit, this kid is doing something fascinating. 69 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 3: And I thought it was funny too, because he was 70 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 3: still doing all the very traditional Kennedy things of going 71 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 3: to the Profile and Courage awards and shaking hands and 72 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 3: putting on a suit and talking about his grandpa. So 73 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,119 Speaker 3: I reached out to him on Instagram and I asked 74 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 3: him for his email address, and he gave it to me, 75 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 3: and we started a correspondence of I'd like to write 76 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 3: about you. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and 77 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 3: we kept setting dates to get together to talk. And actually, 78 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 3: I can talk about this now because I'm sure listeners 79 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: of this show will have seen the news that his sister, 80 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 3: Tatana Schasburg, has terminal cancer. Right about a month after 81 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 3: Jack and I first started talking, we had set a 82 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 3: date to get together for early June for this profile 83 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 3: that I was going to write about him, and he 84 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 3: said to me, I'm so sorry. My sister has just 85 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 3: had a baby and we think there's also cancer. And 86 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 3: I was like, oh my goodness, wow, And I said, well, okay, totally. 87 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 3: Please take time in you for your family. And as 88 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 3: Tatiana writes in the piece, again, I don't feel bad 89 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 3: disclosing this now because I think that this is all 90 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 3: sort of in the open. She's really been on a 91 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 3: roller coaster of she's better, she's not doing better. She's 92 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 3: better for most of twenty twenty four, at least the 93 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 3: times when Jack and I were talking a lot, she 94 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 3: seems like there was a good sense that she was 95 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 3: on her way to remission and was going to be okay. 96 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 3: But anyways, we had a false start there and we 97 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 3: got together. I happened to be in New York at 98 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 3: the end of June. We took a long walk together 99 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 3: in Chelsea, where Jack lived, and talked about his family, 100 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 3: about the campaign, about This was the weekend after the 101 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 3: debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, so everyone's like, 102 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 3: what's going on. He was himself trying to figure things out. 103 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 3: He just signed this contract with Vogue. He didn't know 104 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 3: what the Vogue thing was going to be, but he's like, 105 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 3: you know, I think things are better, Like we should 106 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,799 Speaker 3: do the profile sometime this summer, and I said great. 107 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 3: And then the can just kept getting kicked down the 108 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 3: road for various reasons of busy or not a good time. 109 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 3: I detail a lot of that in the story I 110 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 3: wrote about him. And our plan had always been to 111 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 3: go paddleboarding, and that's one of Jack's favorite activities. And 112 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 3: when I said let's do something around the Chicago convention, 113 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 3: the Democrats were there to coordinate Kamala Harris, he said, great, 114 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 3: And this is very funny. The kinds of things you 115 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 3: do as a journalist are not so dissimilar from the 116 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 3: kinds of things you do on a date or when 117 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 3: you're like getting ready to meet up with somebody, Like 118 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 3: you pick out what are you going to wear? How 119 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 3: are you going to bring? All the tools you need 120 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 3: for the job without seeming really weird. Our job is 121 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 3: so weird. We're like really invasive, and we're doing these 122 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 3: weird things with people, these stunts. So I had ordered 123 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 3: a very special waterproof case for my phone that would 124 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: still allow me to use a microphone, so while we 125 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 3: were out paddleboarding, I would have what I needed. But 126 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 3: of course we never went paddle boarding. He blew me 127 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 3: off and he just just like, now's not a good time. 128 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 3: I'm the only person here representing my family at the DNC. 129 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 3: It's not a good time. And I was at this 130 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 3: point we'd pushed it or four times, So speaking for myself, 131 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 3: I was really mad. So that's such as life. Such 132 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 3: as life. And then when all of these Jack Schlosberg 133 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 3: lookalike contests started showing up last November, about a year ago, 134 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 3: I said to my editor at the time, I am 135 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 3: the world's foremost expert on John Bouvier Kennedy Schlosberg, and 136 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: I am feeling crazy seeing all of these various things exploding, 137 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 3: all of the interest in him hitting this like fever pitch. 138 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 3: And at the time Jack and I weren't talking that much, 139 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 3: but he was still very much in the way that 140 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 3: we all surveil each other. He's still looking at my 141 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 3: Instagram stories and he's looking at what I'm doing. And 142 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 3: something I should have said at the beginning the full disclaimer. 143 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 3: We all know the term silly goose has been our 144 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 3: lexicon for a long time. But when Jack and I 145 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 3: first started talking, when I was trying to pitch him 146 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 3: on the kind of story I would do, I said, 147 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 3: you know, you're like a silly goose. Like a silly 148 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 3: goose is like trying to get the truth out there. 149 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 3: And he was like, Oh, that's really That's a good 150 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 3: way to think about it, and thought about myself that way. 151 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 3: Then everywhere I go, I see Jack calling himself a 152 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 3: silly goose, And this happens all the time. Moreen Dowd, 153 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 3: who just wrote the wonderful profile of Jack for The 154 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 3: New York Times, I happened to know that she had 155 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 3: called Dick Cheeney darth Vader, and it became a name 156 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 3: he liked so much that he stuck with it. And 157 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 3: she said to me, like, yeah, take it as a 158 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 3: term of endearment or as a sign of you doing 159 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 3: good work that someone's she says something to someone as 160 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 3: a writer and they want to make it their own thing. 161 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 3: Long story short, I use the arc of Jack to 162 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 3: tell the story of Jack and what he's liked and 163 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 3: trying to give a sense of not only his energy, 164 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 3: his persona what he was doing as this online influencer 165 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 3: for the Democrats, but then also a sense of what 166 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 3: it's like to be a Kennedy, which I feel like 167 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 3: with him, I got a good glimpse, which is enough 168 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 3: attention to note and to have an impact, but not 169 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 3: so much that there's scrutiny, and not so much that 170 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 3: there's pressure. And the very weird extended family. I feel 171 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 3: like I got a little glimpse into that too, that 172 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 3: there's an expectation that because you related to someone who 173 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 3: has a Kennedy last name, that you will behave a 174 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 3: certain way, you have a certain duty, right. I feel 175 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 3: like Jack really thinks that tension, that kind of expectation 176 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 3: that we put on Kennedy's I feel like he felt 177 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 3: that very much. 178 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, he both tries to live up to it 179 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: sometimes and doesn't at others. I mean, the tension you're 180 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: describing is him being a silly goose, as you say, 181 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: in the sense that he is posting crazy things online, 182 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: whether it's shirtless videos of himself dancing or really provocative 183 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: Twitter jokes or whatever. So he's doing that on the 184 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: one side, and then he's also interviewing Mike Pence and 185 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: giving him the Profile and Courage Award on the other. 186 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: So it's interesting now seeing him run for Congress. You're 187 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: sort of like, so, which one of the two one over? 188 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: On the one hand, the Kennedy side did because he's 189 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: going into electoral politics, which he feels is his birth rate. 190 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: On the other hand, what set him apart is the 191 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: sort of crazy, crazy social media star thing, and so 192 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: if he abandons that, then he only has a Kennedy 193 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: name to trade it. But since writing this piece, how 194 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: has he changed? Would you describe him differently now? In 195 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 1: the year since then? Obviously Donald Trump was eventually elected 196 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: after Jack was like very focused on being a mouthpiece 197 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: for the DNC and going on Jimmy Kimmel and speaking 198 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: at the DNC and whatever. How has he evolved over 199 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: the last year. 200 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 3: So I'm going to bring in some of the reporting 201 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 3: from Maureen Dad's profile and fill it in with some 202 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 3: of my own knowledge. So about a year and a 203 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 3: half ago last spring, Jack was living in Hawaii working 204 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 3: in a surf shop. He did not have a plan, 205 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 3: he did not know what he was going to do, 206 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 3: and the videos were pretty organic and silly and they 207 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 3: took off. It was the right content for the right 208 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 3: time in a moment of politics that felt so icky 209 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 3: and weird, and here's this symbol of Americana helping us 210 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 3: feel a little less icky and weird about all of it. 211 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 3: He was gonna be an actor, he was going to 212 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 3: practice law, he was going to work for the Biden campaign. 213 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 3: I mean, the jobs that Maureen mentions in that piece. 214 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 3: It's almost like when you ask a five year old 215 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 3: what they want to be when they go. It was 216 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 3: all very like anything anything. And I don't have inside 217 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 3: knowledge into this, but what I've seen from Jack over 218 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 3: the last eighteen months two years is an attempt to 219 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 3: formalize whatever that organic energy is, an attempt to put 220 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 3: it into something like a YouTube show and now like 221 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 3: run for Congress. I do believe that he very much 222 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 3: embodies this sense of, you know, to quote his grandfather, 223 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 3: what can you do for your country? I just really 224 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 3: watched that on a Kennedy podcast. I'm really sorry. 225 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 2: Wait, it's ask not what your country can do for you, 226 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 2: ask what you can do for you. 227 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: You can do for your country. I have to say 228 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: I've always thought that it's such a crazy thing to 229 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 1: say in an inauguration speech when you're trying to prove 230 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: what you are offering to the people. To be like, Okay, 231 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,959 Speaker 1: thank you for electing me, and now the balls in 232 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: your court, folks, Like it really has always struck me 233 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: as so strange. 234 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: We'll be back with more United States of Kennedy after 235 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 2: this break, and we're back with more United States of Kennedy. 236 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: One of the reasons why I'm asking about the YouTube 237 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: show is because we noticed that it's one of the 238 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: many things that has now been scrapped from the internet. 239 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: So if you go on the YouTube page, it says 240 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: all ten episodes are unlisted, which means I believe that 241 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: if you have the link, you can watch them. They're 242 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: not like deleted, but but they're not publicly available. Yeah. 243 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: So yes, and the YouTube show, for anyone who does know, 244 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: he was in a van and doing a combination of 245 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: like speaking directly to Cameron also interviewing guests. 246 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 3: Right, and I think it was mostly to camera stuff. 247 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 3: I didn't catch every episode. I did watch the Schumer 248 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 3: episode because I was like, what are we doing here? 249 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 3: The show did not take off. I think that he 250 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: has much more of an audience when he is just 251 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 3: kind of reacting spontaneously. And I also think that there's 252 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 3: a lot of people with shows. There's a lot of 253 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 3: influencers who have a YouTube show he is not special 254 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 3: and he's late to the game in that regard. And 255 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 3: now we're seeing in his congressional run that's an attempt 256 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 3: to formalize some of that Jua demive too, of like 257 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 3: trying to fit it into the strictures of running for office. 258 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 3: And you have to wonder what his campaign would look 259 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: like if he was not a Kennedy, because plenty of 260 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 3: influencers run for office. I'm forgetting her name. There was 261 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 3: a young woman in Arizona who just ran in the 262 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 3: special election. Who is that? She's a Democratic influencer? Right, yes, great, 263 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 3: very big deal gen Z Democratic influencer and they're not 264 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 3: really bound by the should I go to shake hands 265 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 3: at the soup kitchen energy? Kept up with what Jack 266 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 3: stops have been so far about organizing that kind of thing. 267 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: But there's a real. 268 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 3: Old school energy that feels like it's on his campaign 269 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 3: and I have to wonder how much of that is 270 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 3: just that's the way Jack wants it, and how much 271 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 3: of that is there's an expectation that he would have 272 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 3: a more traditional campaign in some respects, and also do 273 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 3: I see it that way because of the way that 274 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 3: we all view Kennedy's is this all kind of novel 275 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 3: and new and interesting, But we always have this lens 276 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 3: on him because of where he came from. What past 277 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 3: generations did Kennedy's a wursehock test? 278 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: Right? 279 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 3: The way that we see them tells us as much 280 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 3: about us as it does about Yeah. 281 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: Totally right. 282 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 2: And I think when he first came into the public consciousness, 283 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: it was through these very silly videos, and I think 284 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 2: that did butt up against a lot of our views 285 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 2: of what a Kennedy is or what a Kennedy is 286 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 2: quote unquote supposed to be. And now his campaign is 287 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: like a push and pull between those two almost opposing forces, 288 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: because the reason why he has become notable and popular 289 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 2: is because of this goofiness, silliness, these kind of irreverent 290 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: social media posts. But now that he is running for 291 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 2: a congressional seat, it seems like he is either himself 292 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 2: or he is being advised to pull back and distance 293 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 2: himself from that what has made him prominent. 294 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: Right, That's what seems confusing to me. Because we watched 295 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: and listened to some interviews with him last time we 296 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: talked about him on a broader level, a few months ago, 297 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: he did this interview with Jen Saki, He went on Kimmel, 298 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: and his value proposition has always been I am being 299 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: intentionally provocative in order to gain the attention economy the 300 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: same way Republicans do, because Democrats are too scared to 301 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: be controversial and provocative. But if we gain the attention economy, 302 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: get eyeballs and ears on our side, then we can 303 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: use that attentional power to talk about the real issues. 304 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: And you even said it like he's a silly goose 305 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: and he's out there to spread the truth or whatever. 306 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: And I really have noticed that since announcing the congressional run, 307 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: he hid his YouTube series. He has deleted certain tweets. Julia, 308 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: what was the one you found? 309 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 3: Oh? 310 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 2: The one immediately after the twenty twenty four election where 311 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 2: some of Harris staffers went on Pod Save America and 312 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: the tweets said, I think pod saved my limptic right, 313 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 2: So that's gone now? So that's gone now? Oh I 314 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 2: should check my profile for broken links. I think I 315 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 2: mentioned that one at lengths. 316 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember last time we were talking about him, 317 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: I looked through his Twitter to be like, what are 318 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: his craziest recent tweets and it was like I would 319 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: scroll for, you know, fifteen minutes and it would still 320 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: be like a week ago. I did the same thing today, 321 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: and he barely tweets anymore, and when he does, it's 322 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: very serious. So I don't know, what do you think 323 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: this makes sense as a strategy. Isn't he sort of 324 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: abandoning what drew people to him? 325 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 3: So I have a rule for myself, because I live 326 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 3: in Washington and I work for the Washington Post, that 327 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 3: I do not go too deep on New York politics 328 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 3: because it's a city that is so full of so 329 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: many political reporters with way too much time on their hands. 330 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 3: So I cannot speak to the particular of the New 331 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 3: York twelve. What I can say is what he is 332 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 3: doing is not why he resonated with people in the 333 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 3: first place. Yeah, Like, I feel that in my bones, 334 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 3: And I don't know if it's a political strategy. I 335 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 3: have no idea what these voters are like. It is 336 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,719 Speaker 3: interesting to me though, in a moment when so much 337 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 3: of the discourse in politics is about authenticity, you know, 338 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 3: I'm thinking about not to like compare him to Graham Platner, 339 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 3: the Senate candidate who's running in Maine, who in case 340 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 3: your listeners are not caught up Democrat progressive, but likes 341 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 3: hunting and as an oyster farmer and has this kind 342 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 3: of hipster energy to him, like sort of Noah concre 343 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 3: And he has this tattoo from when he was in 344 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 3: the Armed Services that it turns out was a Nazi 345 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 3: symbol and he got it covered up recently once the 346 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 3: symbolism of the tattoo was known. And I'm bringing this 347 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 3: up because there's a way in which really leaning into 348 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 3: who you are and your story and where you've been 349 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 3: without shame is really powerful for a lot of people. 350 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 3: There's a lot of people in this world who have 351 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 3: made a lot of mistakes and said things they wish 352 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 3: they hadn't said, and posted things they wish they hadn't posted, 353 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 3: and have talked about, you know, learn my lesson or 354 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 3: yeah that was weird, or even just owned it and 355 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 3: been like you know what at the time, pod should 356 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 3: save my limp dick, you know, like for example. And 357 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 3: I feel like what made Jack powerful last year and 358 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 3: what made him so interesting is that because of who 359 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 3: he was, there were things that he could get away 360 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 3: with and things that were funny and things that made sense. 361 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 3: If they came out of anybody else's mouth orround anyone 362 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 3: else's feed, you would be like, what, Like, I can't 363 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 3: even imagine most other interesting democratic influencers saying pod save 364 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 3: my olymptck and having it have that effect. And I 365 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 3: would be curious what this campaign would have looked like 366 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 3: if he just left everything up there and the OPO 367 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 3: people went through. And also it's very silly because like 368 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 3: anyone who works in oppositional research has already gotten all 369 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 3: these tweets because they know how this works, since ways 370 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 3: to recover them very easily. So it's not like if 371 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 3: an enterprising reporter wasn't asking around, they could just get 372 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,239 Speaker 3: the entire ream of any filthy thing he ever said, right. 373 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: If anything, That's what makes me think it is an 374 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: incorrect strategy, Not because he's like trying to be respectable, 375 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: like I get trying to be respectable, to even think 376 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: this could make a difference, makes me think he's working 377 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: with someone who doesn't quite know how the media ecosystem. 378 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. 379 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 2: Also, you know, we just obviously in New York, we 380 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 2: just had the mayoral race, and Zoron is someone who's 381 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: also a digital native, a social media native, and he 382 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 2: just left all of his tweets up, which I think 383 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 2: makes sense in those music videos, right, and he kind 384 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 2: of made it part of his campaign and like, oh 385 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 2: look at me, I was so silly. And to your 386 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 2: point about Graham Platner, a lot of his posts, you know, 387 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 2: Opposition Research has uncovered some Reddit posts of his, and 388 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,239 Speaker 2: he has also folded that into his story, saying I 389 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 2: was a lost young man, as so many American men are, 390 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 2: and I, you know, I have since learned and educated 391 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 2: myself and changed, and there's something powerful, there is something 392 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 2: that resonates with people. And I'm confused about Jack's decision 393 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: to distance himself from the very thing that endeared him 394 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 2: to people. 395 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we wanted to sort of take some 396 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: time to go through his campaign website and more specifically, 397 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,719 Speaker 1: you know, okay, so how is he selling himself? 398 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 2: Now? 399 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: This is like his This is almost like a big reset. 400 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: For let's say two years, all the media coverage of 401 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: him was like, look at this strange curiosity. You'll never 402 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: believe this. He's a Kennedy but he's shirtless and he's hot, 403 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: and he like has a funny, good relationship with his parents, 404 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: and there's sometimes in his videos, but then he also 405 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: can dress up and suddenly he's covered like an influencer. 406 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: And then suddenly it's this very old fashioned. First of all, 407 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: the imagery Julia planted this out to me earlier. The 408 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: imagery really like references a bunch of old Kennedy yes images, 409 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 1: whether that's his grandfather or whether that's JFK. Junior. And 410 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: then we have twelve promises to the people of New 411 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: York's twelfth District, and it's these really like platitude written 412 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: sentences for each one. 413 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 3: Also not for nothing, but like I just googled Jack 414 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 3: Schlosberg to pull this website up, and it wasn't even 415 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 3: the first five pages of results. I had to actually 416 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 3: put in Jack Schlossberg campaign to get it. So that 417 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 3: doesn't coos ceo. 418 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 2: So the twelfth Promises to the People of New York's 419 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 2: twelfth District service courage, strength, accountability, optimism, independence, focus, pragmatism, unity, patriotism, creativity, 420 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: and positivity. I mean they almost strike you as something 421 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 2: you would find on bad art at home goods. 422 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and also each of them is truly written 423 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: as like a thesis statement in a high school essay 424 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: or something. It really is very much like Gandhi once said. 425 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 2: Like under focus, it says all three branches of government 426 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 2: are equal, but Congress comes first. 427 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 3: Just check the Constitution. It's Article one for a reason, 428 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 3: People's House has all the power. 429 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: I do want to say in his defense, you know 430 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: it's important to remember, and I know we don't want 431 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: to talk about the ins and outs of New York politics, 432 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: it's important to remember he is running for New York's 433 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: twelve congressional district, which is if you're thinking of like 434 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: the most stereotypical rich, out of touch vote blue no 435 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: matter who Democrats, that will respond even to this day, 436 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: to like we got to get that cheeto out of 437 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: the White House. This is that district. So yes, it 438 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: might seem completely beside the point to us, and we 439 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: might think it sounds like lame or something, but these 440 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: are exactly the kind of people who would respond to 441 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: this kind of messaging. So that would be my one 442 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: point in his defense. 443 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 3: I also think that one of the through lines of 444 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 3: Jack from the time when he and I first started 445 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 3: talking to now is he's it's really earnest and even 446 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 3: though he is funny, there is an earnestness in his humor. 447 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 3: He has never actually totally detached. There isn't a ry nous, 448 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 3: there isn't a cynicism. It's silly, it's ridiculous, over the top, 449 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 3: but it's always earnest. And Julia, as you were reading 450 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 3: those qualities aloud and some of the descriptions, what's funny 451 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 3: is the intonation of it is still very Jack like 452 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 3: in that he has a kind of Peter Panish quality 453 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 3: to him that is part of the charm, a little 454 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 3: bit like I'm not going to be weighed down by 455 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 3: my three and a half decades of living in America 456 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 3: in a mostly post nine to eleven world. I Am 457 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 3: going to still see the good qualities. And there's a 458 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 3: bit of a wink and a nod to me as 459 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 3: I hear you read through them that if you know 460 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 3: Jack and you're familiar with his game, you can kind 461 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 3: of see the sort of content behind the earnestness. And 462 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 3: I guess to the point George was just making about 463 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 3: the voters. If you don't know it, it just sounds 464 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 3: like a nice young boy whose grandfather was their favorite president, 465 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 3: go out and vote for him. So maybe he's trying 466 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 3: to kind of have it both ways. I don't know 467 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 3: if it'll be effective for voters, but I could see 468 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 3: it that way. He's not being dishonest and like totally 469 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 3: burying who he was, but he's playing up the very 470 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 3: particular aspect of his earnest self to various audiences and 471 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 3: seeing how the chips fall. 472 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 2: I mean, he's also not making any specific policy promises. 473 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 2: It's all these, as George said, vague platitudes. So I 474 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 2: don't know, it's interesting. It kind of strikes me as 475 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 2: someone who doesn't quite know who he is yet, but 476 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 2: also someone who much has been asked of him, specifically 477 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 2: from the Democratic establishment, you know, as you noted in 478 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 2: your piece. In twenty twenty four, he was named a 479 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 2: New York delegate at the DNC, and then he was 480 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 2: a speaker at the DNC in Chicago. But then in 481 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 2: the aftermath of Kamala's loss, he was very critical of 482 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 2: Kamala's campaign, you know, rightfully, so sure, but I'm confused 483 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: about this push and pull with Hi, like, do you 484 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,879 Speaker 2: have a sense of how he is perceived within the 485 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 2: Democratic Party. 486 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,199 Speaker 3: I think it was telling that Jack was asked to 487 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,719 Speaker 3: speak and to be clear like this convention came together 488 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 3: very quickly. It wasn't like, oh, we know exactly what's 489 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 3: going to happen, because Kamala Harris became the nominee a 490 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 3: couple of weeks before, so a lot of seat of 491 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 3: the pants stuff. I know that his addition was a 492 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 3: little bit on the later side, and it was telling. 493 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 3: I think that they had him show up with Jimmy 494 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 3: Carter's grandson. Remember that it was an early block. I 495 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 3: forgot what day of the week it is, was not 496 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 3: during the primetime. So this was a really fan service 497 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 3: for the people in the convention center, and it was 498 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 3: getting the blessing of the Kennedy family and the blessing 499 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 3: of the Carter family. And that was important in a 500 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 3: moment when RFK Junior is still glooming as this free radical. 501 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 3: He hadn't quite linked arms with Trump yet. I think 502 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 3: that was coming in like the week or so later, 503 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 3: and that's what he talked about at the DNC. He 504 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 3: talked about the legacy, he talked about the baton. He 505 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 3: didn't talk about himself, he didn't talk about his videos. 506 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 3: He didn't talk about what the party could be doing 507 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 3: reaching out to young people who the likes of whom 508 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 3: follow him. He was talking about his grandparents and he 509 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 3: talks about his mother, and I think the Democratic Party 510 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 3: he is still that he is, above all else, a 511 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 3: Kennedy who can remind Democrats of the good times. 512 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: It's also like because RFK Junior, especially now obviously is 513 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: inside the Trump administration, which he wasn't, then there is almost, 514 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: I would imagine, in the Democrat's mind this idea, they 515 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: have the bad Kennedy and we have the good Kennedy. Look, 516 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: they have the one who's spreading misinformation and having affairs 517 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: with journalists, and then we have the one who's young 518 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: and attractive and has hope in his eyes and you know, 519 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 1: is inspiring the youth. 520 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's probably right. But I think it's 521 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 3: telling because I don't think the value they saw in 522 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 3: him is really through the things that connected so many 523 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 3: people to him, which is his social media and his 524 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 3: like just attention talent. And that's what we talked to 525 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 3: Jen Zacki about. In other interviews, he's discussed this. There 526 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 3: is a real disconnect between the value that Jack can 527 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 3: add to Democrats and the value they want him to add, 528 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 3: at least historically speaking. The run for Congress is like 529 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 3: a whole other things. 530 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: Right, We're going to take a short break, stay with us, 531 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: and we're back with United States of Kennedy. 532 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 2: Well, it seems like the value that perhaps he has 533 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: to the Democratic Party how they see him is symbolic, 534 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 2: and I'm curious if you have a sense of how 535 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,479 Speaker 2: he sees himself in that way, and how do you 536 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 2: think he sees his own role inside or outside of 537 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 2: the Democratic establishment. 538 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 3: So Jack and I have never spoken on the record, 539 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 3: so I want to just promise what I'm about to 540 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 3: say that way, because I'm not a liberty to share 541 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 3: what's in his head. But I think you see this 542 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 3: play out on social media. I think you see it 543 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: play out before he started cleaning up his various feeds. 544 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 3: I think there's a real tension of being yanked in 545 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 3: the direction of like, Okay, it's your turn, kid, we 546 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 3: need you to come do this thing, and just like 547 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 3: your sisters and your mother before you, it's your turn 548 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,719 Speaker 3: to carry the mantle for us. And I think he 549 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 3: does have really strong ideas about the fact that the 550 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 3: party is not doing what it can to attract new audiences, 551 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 3: to bring people into the fault. I think his criticism 552 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 3: of the campaign after the fact was the most telling 553 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 3: aspect of this. 554 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: And his endorsement of Zoron you could say, like he 555 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: felt very passionate about you know, he has this famous 556 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: video where he's like, we need to get all these 557 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: old Democrats out of office. We need young blah blah blah. 558 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: Julian and I were talking about this off Mike earlier, 559 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: and she made the point that he both represents the 560 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: establishment and not the establishment, like in his mind he 561 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: doesn't shy away from the Kennedy name, like it's very open. 562 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: It's on his website, like he both thinks part of 563 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: the value proposition is that he is a quintessential Democratic 564 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: candidate from the old times and also that he's part 565 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: of a new generation that is unseating the old crusty men, right. 566 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 3: And I think that, as we've been discussing, though it 567 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 3: doesn't work so seamlessly as him being able to do 568 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 3: both things. In fact, both things are often at odds 569 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 3: with each other in how they manifest in him. 570 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so we've talked about, you know, how he's 571 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: perceived within the Democratic Party, how he perceives himself. I mean, 572 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: the obvious next question is how actual normal people perceive him, 573 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: because I have to say I was not surprised, but 574 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: I was intrigued by the fact that, despite all the 575 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: love he has experienced over the last two years, when 576 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: he did finally announce his run, the reaction that I 577 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: saw at least was mostly negative. All these people that 578 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: thought he was so fun and funny and shared his 579 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: videos were not being like, all right, I'm pumped up, 580 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: let's go. I think part of that is because it's 581 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: such a crowded field, and I was just saying before, like, 582 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: he's not even in this field the young and hot one. 583 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: There's literally like a twenty five year old, yeah, former 584 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: Parkland teen who's cool and gay and going around and 585 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: giving like fun interviews, which really sucks for him. He 586 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: can't even be like the offantoreable of this specific campaign totally. 587 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: What is your take on the response, I mean, it's 588 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: sort of landed with a thud to me. Yeah. 589 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 3: I think there's a couple of things going on. One 590 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 3: of them is, for sure, this is a really crowded 591 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 3: race full of charismatic gay beautiful men exactly. Yeah, but 592 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 3: like also maybe George Conway, Kelly and Conway that has been. 593 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 3: It is a clown car of people. 594 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: And there's also like in the more serious side, there's 595 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: you know, Michael Asher is like Jerry Nadler's protege, and 596 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: Nadler will probably endorse him. Like there's already a candidate 597 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: for the serious older people, there's already a candidate for 598 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: the like young progressive people. There's very little grasp on too. 599 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 3: But the comparison point and the scene setting here is 600 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 3: important because you could imagine in another race where it's 601 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 3: just I don't know, just for example, let's say Jack 602 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 3: and Dan Goldman, the kind of old or I forget 603 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,720 Speaker 3: which district he represents, forgive me New. 604 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 2: Yorkers, but it's mine, Yeah, it's ours, ye okay, great. 605 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 3: So he is very serious and a little bit older 606 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 3: and not a good hang and like very establishment coded. 607 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 3: And you could see like someone like Jack running against 608 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 3: him and just kind of dancing circles around him being like, yeah, 609 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 3: look at me. He can't do that in this race. 610 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 3: So his fish tank is he's a little bit boxed 611 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 3: in by the other fish that are already there. I 612 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 3: don't know why I'm talking about fish, just please bear 613 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 3: with me. It's a tableau. The other thing is I 614 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 3: do think that, for whatever reason, there are some people 615 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 3: who are getting the ick out there. I think that 616 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 3: Jack's popularity really was peak pre post election, and in 617 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 3: fact pre twenty twenty four election, when he was starting 618 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 3: to do more events with Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro and 619 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 3: Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, you could kind of see this 620 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 3: like strain of like he's trying to make these guys 621 00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 3: a little cool, like make it kind of get people 622 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 3: excited about the election. I felt like that was some 623 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 3: of his weakest content that he was making, and after 624 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 3: the election he exploded with his like tear it all 625 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 3: down energy, And then with the show, I hear more 626 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 3: people who last summer were saying, oh my god, Carol, 627 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 3: he's going to be at the convention, what if we 628 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 3: kissed under the balloon drop? Just like fantasizing about like 629 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 3: what it would be like to meet Jack slaws. 630 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 2: I mean, they were calling him the internet's baby girl, right, 631 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 2: very baby girl. 632 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 3: People of both genders, I should say, were like pitching 633 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,959 Speaker 3: out to me all sexual orientations were like what if 634 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 3: we kiss under the ball drop? To now being like 635 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 3: ew ew, I'm just so sick of seeing Jack Schlossberg. 636 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 3: He's giving me the egg. I don't know what makes 637 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 3: the Internet turn on somebody like that. I can't figure 638 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 3: it out. I'd be curious if you guys have any 639 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 3: thoughts on why that is. But it is definitely happening. 640 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 3: I have a theory in this particular political moment. It's 641 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 3: interesting because Jack, as we said, he endorsed Uran. In 642 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 3: Zoran's victory speech, he specifically referenced that his election is 643 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 3: the end of a political dynasty. It is the end 644 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 3: of the Cuomo dynasty, and it is implicitly or explicitly 645 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 3: hopefully the end of dynastic politics in America. And crucially, 646 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 3: a Cuomo dynasty is in part of Kennedy dynasty. Given 647 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 3: the marriage to right. I can see why. 648 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 2: People like Jack Schlossberg as a fun, kooky almost like 649 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 2: a little eadie, deeply for the modern age. But it 650 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 2: seems that there is really not an appetite right now 651 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: for dynastic politics, at least maybe not in his district honestly, 652 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 2: because his district went for Cuomo. So maybe there is 653 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 2: more of an appetite in his district for a member 654 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 2: of a political dynasty. 655 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 3: But I think it's. 656 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 2: Both the fact that we are sick of dynastic politics 657 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 2: writ large in this country and also that the other 658 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 2: most prominent Kennedy right now is. 659 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 3: Anesthma to anyone left of center. That's my theory, right. 660 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: And the fact that Jack has obviously spent so much 661 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 1: of his time arguing with the Kennedy referring to RFK 662 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: Junior is not quite having the intended effect. It's like 663 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: the Kennedy name has still taken a hit because of 664 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: you know, the last two years, likeingly, and to be honest, 665 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: the last generation that really associated the Kennedys with this 666 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: statesmanship and with JFK is the Boomers, Like it just 667 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:28,760 Speaker 1: isn't that anymore. 668 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,760 Speaker 2: John Junior was going to be the last great hope, 669 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 2: I think, and maybe would have been that person for 670 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 2: gen X had he not breached his untimely end. And 671 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 2: it seems like Jack is trying to kind of emulate 672 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 2: that too. He wants to be connected to that legacy. 673 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 2: On his campaign website, there's a picture of him on 674 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 2: a bicycle that is almost an exact recreation of a 675 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 2: paparazzi shout of JFK Junior. So I think what I 676 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 2: keep coming back to over and over again. Is that 677 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 2: this is someone who kind of has a little bit 678 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 2: of an identity crisis. 679 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think that this is probably not 680 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 3: unique to a Kennedy. But if you're going to pursue 681 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 3: the family business with a name like that, it is 682 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 3: impossible to figure out who you are without that history 683 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 3: weighing on you. And it'd be one thing if a 684 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 3: member of the Bush family went and opened a pizza shop. 685 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 3: No one in the Bush family, as far as I know, 686 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 3: has a pizza shop, And you don't have to think 687 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 3: too hard about how Prescott Bush made pizza or George H. 688 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 3: W or George W. Because who the f knows. But 689 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 3: if you're going into politics, there is a thought and 690 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 3: expectation about who you are and what you represent. I 691 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,479 Speaker 3: don't know what ended up happening. One of the Bush 692 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 3: grandchildren was thinking about running for was a governor or 693 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 3: senate in Maine. I don't know if he actually launched 694 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 3: his campaign, But you know, what is a Bush in 695 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 3: twenty twenty five in the midst of Maga. You know, 696 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 3: there is constantly both the liberal nostalgia for the Bushes 697 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 3: but also Maga hatred for them. When Dick Cheney died. 698 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 3: I follow a lot of the right online because of 699 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 3: my job, and there was a real good is that 700 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 3: to me being thirty six years old? Gosh, it was 701 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 3: the most firebrand liberals growing up who were like, I 702 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,720 Speaker 3: wish death upon Dick Cheney. So to see the maga 703 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 3: people like spitting on his grave, I was like, Wow, 704 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 3: we've really come far. So that is also say that 705 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,879 Speaker 3: I can only imagine how hard it is to figure 706 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,200 Speaker 3: out how to be a person in general when you 707 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 3: have a legacy behind you, a high profile one, and 708 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 3: you're trying to be yourself against that backdrop. I don't 709 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 3: know if it's a possible thing. 710 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: To pull off. 711 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 2: And I think, to your point, what is a Bush 712 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 2: right now? And what is the role of a Kennedy? 713 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 2: I actually think that the person who has gotten it 714 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 2: exactly right is Jenna Bush. That's right, and that is 715 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 2: right kind of and and honestly I could see someone 716 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,720 Speaker 2: like Jack being equally as successful in a similar role 717 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 2: in a non political but still entertainment, still a very 718 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 2: visible legacy of this family. 719 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 3: Well, he wanted to be an actor, I mean yet 720 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 3: Patrick Schwarzenegger, and I know that he comes by that 721 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 3: for various ways. But Maria Shriver was a journalist. John 722 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 3: Junior was a journalist. There's a way of being able 723 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 3: to translate the life experience and the people you know 724 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 3: for the rest of us that I think is one 725 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,399 Speaker 3: of the most compelling ways to be a Kennedy right now. 726 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, And when Jack was a kooky social media influencer 727 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 1: and Vogue columnist, there was something sort of perfect about that. 728 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: It was like, all right, that's exactly what we can 729 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: do with you, and you can sort of serve that function. 730 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,240 Speaker 2: So you note in your profile or what was supposed 731 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 2: to be a profile last year that it did end 732 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,919 Speaker 2: up calling apart because, as you said, the Ken kept 733 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 2: getting kicked down the road. And one of the passages 734 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 2: that I thought was really interesting that you ended on 735 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 2: was and now here. I was just another journalist who 736 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 2: tried to scale the walls of Camelot only to belly 737 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 2: flop into the moat. What is it about the Kennedys 738 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 2: that makes them court media attention and then simultaneously spurneth. 739 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 3: The best example that comes to mind for me is 740 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 3: the Royal family in England that their power is only 741 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:03,719 Speaker 3: really derived from public attention, and yet to lend oneself 742 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 3: publicly in the way that the royal family does is 743 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 3: also to lose the really humanity of being a private citizen, 744 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 3: of having things you do that are not publicly available 745 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,720 Speaker 3: for consumption. But the Kennedys are kind of the same, 746 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,839 Speaker 3: and this has been a repeating theme throughout the generations, 747 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 3: of knowing that having an audience and keeping America enmeshed 748 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,279 Speaker 3: in the myth and the legacy is like, there's only 749 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 3: power as long as that's still true. 750 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:29,359 Speaker 1: Right. 751 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 3: If every Kennedy decided today to go be a private citizen, 752 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 3: this generation would have some questions and be like, huh, 753 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 3: what's up with them? But probably by the time the 754 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,839 Speaker 3: next couple generations came through, we wouldn't think about it 755 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 3: and be like, oh, yeah, there used to be Kennedy 756 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 3: the same way like there used to be you know, 757 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 3: other very famous families Asters. I don't know if Asters 758 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 3: are still around. That's probably not a good example. But 759 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 3: this is all to say that it feels to me 760 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 3: it's a two way street that there are at least 761 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 3: some members of the family who aren't ready to give 762 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 3: up on being this important family for America. I don't 763 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 3: think every member of the family feels this way. And 764 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 3: I think that great New York magazine piece about the 765 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 3: Kennedy's got it. This is like how much mileage do 766 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 3: does the family member want from being a Kennedy. But 767 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 3: I think that they let us get close and push 768 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 3: us away because they understand the public and their love 769 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,359 Speaker 3: of them sustains the family name. 770 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,239 Speaker 1: Wow, that is a perfect place to end. It could 771 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: be the final sentence of every of every episode of 772 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: the United States of Kennedy. Thank you so much, kar 773 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: This was really great and our best wishes to Jack. Sadly, 774 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: Julia and I are not in his districts, so we 775 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,320 Speaker 1: can't vote for him. 776 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 3: But Jackie and Jack, you always have an invitation to 777 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 3: come on the. 778 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: Show, and maybe if you do, we will. We will 779 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,800 Speaker 1: move to the Upper West Side. I hear it's really affordable. 780 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 3: Really really nice. Yeah, and I would also say that 781 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,839 Speaker 3: no matter what you think about him and what he's 782 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 3: up to, he's definitely going through a lot with tatianas 783 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 3: of course, Yes, nothing but good thoughts for her and 784 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 3: her family as there as they're making their way through it. 785 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and from us as well. 786 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,720 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Kara, Thanks guys, Thank you Karen. 787 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: So that's it for this week's episode. 788 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 2: Next week, we're talking about the history of Kennedy Fashion. 789 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 2: So subscribe and follow the United States of Kennedy for 790 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 2: all things Kennedy each week. United States of Kennedy is 791 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,840 Speaker 2: hosted by me Julia Clair and George Saveres. 792 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: Original music by Joshua Chapolski. 793 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 3: Editing by Graham Gibson. 794 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: Mixing and mastering by Doug Bame. 795 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 3: Research by Dave Bruce and Austin Thompson. 796 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: Our producer is Carmen Laurent. 797 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 3: Our executive producer is Jenna Cagle. 798 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: Created by Lyra Smith. 799 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 2: United States of Kennedy is a production of iHeart Podcasts.