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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane Jay Lee.

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Speaker 1: We bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,

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Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg Francie

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Speaker 1: Laquad Queen Victoria Street and she is with David folks

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Speaker 1: Landa as well. Francying just an extraordinary research piece from DFL.

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Speaker 1: This really harkens back to his thoughtful pieces decades ago.

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Speaker 1: And I'd like to go to a piece of this

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Speaker 1: right now for Francy, for you to bring up the

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Speaker 1: conversation with DFL negative interest rates and they have a

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Speaker 1: punishment to them, the aggressive implementation of a new regulatory

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Speaker 1: regime and the failure to create a unified homemark. It

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Speaker 1: are this rating bank profitability. Needless to say, since the

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Speaker 1: introduction of negative interest rates, EU banks have lost two

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Speaker 1: fifths of their market value, while US banks have gained

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Speaker 1: the same amount. It is inappropriate for DFL to speak

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Speaker 1: of transactions of German banks, but Francine certainly he can

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Speaker 1: speak to a larger bank banking system. Right now, how

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Speaker 1: do we clear this mess David, I'll tell me what

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Speaker 1: first needs to understand that there in modern economies, the

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Speaker 1: intermedia is financial intermedia is are key to making it work.

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Speaker 1: They're not just there to take the positis and make loans,

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Speaker 1: but they allocate credit. And they's just key if if

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Speaker 1: banks don't if banks are sick, economies don't do well.

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Speaker 1: That's sort of a fundamental proposition. And once you see that,

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Speaker 1: then you get worried because then you see the European

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Speaker 1: banking system compared to the US, is in dire straits.

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Speaker 1: In all the normal metrics of return on assets, return

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Speaker 1: on tangible equity, uh that interest margins, European banks are

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Speaker 1: pale shadow compared to the Americans, and so it's very

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Speaker 1: very difficult for them to making money, to organically raise capital,

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Speaker 1: organically deal with non performing loans. And there's a history

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Speaker 1: to this, of course, and sen sense. The Americans were

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Speaker 1: restructured early after the crisis. In Europe didn't do that,

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Speaker 1: so we had we had a lot of legacy issues

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Speaker 1: in the banking system. But this is a serious problem

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Speaker 1: and and and it affects fundamental verbles like productivity. As

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Speaker 1: I said before, if you have to make loans when

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Speaker 1: you capital constraint, you stay with you stay with with

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Speaker 1: the with the borrowers where you already have your money.

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Speaker 1: You don't take it from him and give it to

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Speaker 1: new borrowers, because then you've got it write down the

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Speaker 1: old money. So and that requires capital. So you have

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Speaker 1: all kinds of of inflexibilities in the system that developed

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Speaker 1: when you were When you were are not profitable, so

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Speaker 1: profitability is important. What kind of banking system does Europe

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Speaker 1: actually need? It's pretty straightforward what has to be done.

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Speaker 1: We need to have a unified banking system. The only

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Speaker 1: one percent of household loans come from across border. Now

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Speaker 1: imagine if we talk about single markets for twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours a day. Yet the borrowers in Italy don't borrow

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Speaker 1: from German banks. In German banks don't lend to Spanish borrowers,

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Speaker 1: not because they don't onto it, because there's just so

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Speaker 1: many hindrances going across borders. So the completion of the

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Speaker 1: banking union and of the capital markets union is the

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Speaker 1: first thing that has to go done. And this is

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Speaker 1: where I keep criticizing the European authorities that it's so

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Speaker 1: easy to do these things. I want to do these

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Speaker 1: things with monetary policy. But that's a very blunt tool

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Speaker 1: to steer an economy when when you're failing to do

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Speaker 1: the more elementary but also the hardest stuff, namely the

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Speaker 1: completion of the single market. D David focused lend does

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Speaker 1: thriank you so much? For our US audience, particularly a

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Speaker 1: US drive time audience, There's no I think that's going

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Speaker 1: to make you turn the channel like another discussion of Brexit.

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Speaker 1: But we can do that, and we can make it

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Speaker 1: charming and lovely. Always with Anna Edwards, Chief Brexit corresponded.

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Speaker 1: Anna helped the US audience here with an absolutely original phrase,

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Speaker 1: an indicative vote. What is an indicative vote? Well, good

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Speaker 1: morning to you, Tom and Jonathan. We're all on a

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Speaker 1: on a big learning cave when it comes to Brexit.

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Speaker 1: Another part at the twist and turning Brexit process for

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Speaker 1: you this morning. Indicative votes. So basically the way this goes.

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Speaker 1: MP spend today coming up with options that they see

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Speaker 1: for a way forward on Brexit. They suggest those to

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Speaker 1: the Speaker of the House. Do you remember him, John Burgo,

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Speaker 1: the one who shouts order, order a lot. He comes

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Speaker 1: up with this list. The list goes on a piece

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Speaker 1: of paper and then they all rank which options they

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Speaker 1: would tolerate, which ones they would like, which ones they

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Speaker 1: could hold their nose and vote for. And then after

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Speaker 1: that process next Monday, the top few get debated and

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Speaker 1: and Parliament craft some sort of preference out of all

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Speaker 1: of that. Oh, that's wonderful, except that reads like that

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Speaker 1: required summer reading, seventh grade Lord of the Flies. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is not, you know, required democracy as well. It's

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Speaker 1: unusual who controls this process or does it turn into

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Speaker 1: something completely original for the home of constitutional law. It

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Speaker 1: does seem as if a lot of what we're seeing

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Speaker 1: in this Brexit process is being i mean being crafted creatively,

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Speaker 1: shall we put it up to now? What we've seen

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Speaker 1: a lot is the government bringing motions and members of

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Speaker 1: the opposition tabling amendments to that, and that's been the

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Speaker 1: process we've been going through. But this is something new.

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Speaker 1: This is something different. The government is called this something

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Speaker 1: dangerous with an unpredictable precedent because it does certainly open

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Speaker 1: up the floodgates for other activity like this in the future.

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Speaker 1: It upends the balance between the democratic institutions. Is the

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Speaker 1: government's ache on this? Those who put this forward though,

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Speaker 1: and I have to point out this is a cross bench,

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Speaker 1: across party group of MPs who put this plan forward.

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Speaker 1: They see this as really trying to answer the question

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Speaker 1: as too okay, we know what Parliament doesn't want, but

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Speaker 1: what does Parliament really want? What can parliament get behind

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Speaker 1: important to note though, this doesn't mean that this is

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Speaker 1: what will come to part. Parliament will express its wishes

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Speaker 1: this way, but the Executive does not have to listen

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Speaker 1: to this. Theresa May and her team have been saying

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Speaker 1: we can't pre commit to implement a plan that we

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Speaker 1: don't know what that is. That would not be responsible.

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Speaker 1: So Anna, I'm wondering whether they actually all of this

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Speaker 1: mess plays into the Prime minister strategy that she gets

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Speaker 1: the hardcore Brexiteers to start thinking that it's either her

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Speaker 1: plan or they're not going to get anything they want.

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Speaker 1: That is exactly the subject of the most recent modcast.

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Speaker 1: If you've not heard of this, Jonathan and Tom, this

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Speaker 1: is the Jacob Reese Marko, I'm sure you have heard of,

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Speaker 1: the leader of the e r G, the sort of

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Speaker 1: breakaway part of the Conservative Party, far on the right side,

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Speaker 1: the brexiteer side at the Conservative Party. He does a

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Speaker 1: podcast called modcast he releases this morning, and it makes

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Speaker 1: that point. But the choice, there's a continuum of choices,

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Speaker 1: and May's deal, he says, he is better than no

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Speaker 1: deal at all. He said it before and last night

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Speaker 1: he said he would be tempted to hold his nose

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Speaker 1: and vote for the reason May's deal if this was

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Speaker 1: the best chance of getting any kind of Brexit. And

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Speaker 1: so what's interesting about indicative votes is that they could

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Speaker 1: paint a picture of the way forward, or they could

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Speaker 1: just be used to whip the E r G and

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Speaker 1: other holdouts into supporting Thereason May's deal. In the end, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm lost and thank you so much, greatly appreciate it,

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Speaker 1: and can't say enough about her work on the green

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Speaker 1: at Westminster. She has been absolutely extraordinary. What Jack far

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Speaker 1: and I love to do is to fold like six

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Speaker 1: of the Zeitgey stories at the moment into one lovely story.

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Speaker 1: And John, we can do that with Jennifer Bailey, vice

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Speaker 1: president of Apple PA yesterday who got up and introduced

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Speaker 1: the Goldman Sachs Apple Titanium credit card, and there in

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Speaker 1: front of thousands of Apple fans, you know, the Apple idiots,

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Speaker 1: was the Titan card and across it. It's a Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: Curry not let me get away with that. Did you

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Speaker 1: just call the Apple fans the Apple idiots? You know,

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Speaker 1: the fan boys, the fan boys, they're all into it.

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Speaker 1: And there was David Solomon there, and there's the titanium

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Speaker 1: Apple card and it says across a commodity guru Jeffrey Curry,

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Speaker 1: Jeff carries with us. But Jeff Curry can always say

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Speaker 1: that you've got an Apple if X I do. But but,

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Curry, titanium and credit. What is titanium used for?

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Speaker 1: I prefer the precious medals over these rare earth metals,

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Speaker 1: but platum but not titanium unfortunately. But it's but but

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Speaker 1: they're like they're different from gold. I get that. What

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Speaker 1: did you do with palladium and platinum um? They go

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Speaker 1: into autocats and because of the VW problem um the

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Speaker 1: demand for diesel cars collapse and the platinum goes into those.

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Speaker 1: And then at the platinum price went down and we

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Speaker 1: buy more gasoline cars in lieu of the diesel cars

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Speaker 1: and palladium. And so as of yesterday, are you're covering titanium?

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Speaker 1: Not yet? Not yet? So, Jeff the question used to

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Speaker 1: be what's going on with China just OSCA commodity strategists.

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Speaker 1: Now it's which commodity do I look at to understand

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Speaker 1: what he's going on with China? Woke me through a

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Speaker 1: Jeff Well. In general, the policy in China has become

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Speaker 1: much more selective, Like if you look at their how

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Speaker 1: they stimulated housing this time around, they went in city

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Speaker 1: by city, credit worthy by credit worthy, and so you

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Speaker 1: end up with these very idiosyncratic stories. Now, in terms

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Speaker 1: of thinking about the current environment, the one thing we've

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Speaker 1: learned is they won't step aside and let the economy collapse,

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Speaker 1: nor are they going to turbot charge it. So really

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Speaker 1: what it does it creates a relatively benign outlook, like

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Speaker 1: our outlook for steel demand in China this year's flat

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Speaker 1: ere overyear. I think that's really the core outlook going forward.

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Speaker 1: But that reluctance not to step aside has that also

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Speaker 1: made it more difficult over time to boost the economy

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Speaker 1: when they need to know when two thousand and fifteen

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Speaker 1: and sixteen they did it in the large scale, and

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Speaker 1: they did it again back in was it twelve and thirteen?

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Speaker 1: It looks different this time though, Jeff, They've been trying

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Speaker 1: to stimulate the economy, for one, and there are very

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Speaker 1: little signs of it actually stimulated the economy. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you got rid of the tail risk, you know,

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Speaker 1: you look at you know, the the underlying um economic

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Speaker 1: growth is somewhere in that five and a half to

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Speaker 1: six percent growth range, and they've taken down their targets.

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Speaker 1: Does dr copper work anymore? Really important question about you know,

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Speaker 1: what do you follow for China? I mean, the regression

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Speaker 1: from two thousand and ten is not pretty No, it's not.

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Speaker 1: But but if you look at um what copper was

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Speaker 1: primarily used to create that electrical grid system in China,

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Speaker 1: and infrastructure projects are slower right now. As a result,

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Speaker 1: demand is slower for copper and other base metals right now.

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Speaker 1: Do you have a good handle on various industrial demands?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean we run into in oil all

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Speaker 1: the time, supply, supply, supply. Nobody really wants to measure demand.

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Speaker 1: Is it truly measurable? Well, you get an implied demand

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Speaker 1: that I think it's pretty close to it, and it's

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Speaker 1: consistent with the underlying economic data. But I think the

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Speaker 1: key here is durable demand, whether if it's houses, autos,

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Speaker 1: in the developed markets or infrastructure in China is a

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Speaker 1: lot lower today than it was five ten years ago,

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Speaker 1: and that's primary reason why copper and the rest of

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Speaker 1: the metals complex is lower. So Tom's brought up an

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Speaker 1: interesting point about DR copper. If DR copper along has

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Speaker 1: a PhD, and I cannot believe what the inversion of

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Speaker 1: the yield curve is used to tell me, or is

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Speaker 1: telling me? Now, what is the signal that I get

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Speaker 1: from price? Where do I get signal from price anymore? Well,

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Speaker 1: if you look at the prices across the complex, they're

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Speaker 1: sitting pretty much on their equilibrium values. We got coppers

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Speaker 1: a little bit stronger UM, but more broadly UM. Most

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Speaker 1: of these prices are telling you it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: mid lean type story, consistent with the underlying fundamentals. And

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Speaker 1: one of my great charts I put this out years ago.

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Speaker 1: It's the old c R y c RB indexes, ancient

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Speaker 1: stuff folks, back to the fifties, and I adjust for

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Speaker 1: inflation and the answer is cop blended commodity prices now,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Curry, are back to where they were in on

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Speaker 1: an inflation adjusted basis. We haven't broken that cycle, other

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Speaker 1: than the one off commodity boom. What's the house call

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Speaker 1: at Goldman Sex, I'm breaking this deflationary cycle. Well, if

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Speaker 1: you take the non energy, which a CRB is primarily composed,

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Speaker 1: it's bacing. That's that lack of Chinese demand for capex commodities.

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Speaker 1: The op x commodities like oil looks a lot better.

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Speaker 1: So it offsets that chart and makes it slightly tilt

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Speaker 1: up as opposed to tilting down. What's your calling oil

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Speaker 1: right now? Have you revisited that seventies seventy five? The

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Speaker 1: market is really tight today. You know, we got million

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Speaker 1: barrel per day deficit forward curves in backgradation, so it's

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Speaker 1: a rock solid story right now. However, you got a

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Speaker 1: relatively barry story going into because of the pipe capacity,

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Speaker 1: and as a result, we think this markets can remain back.

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Speaker 1: This is on w T I s Brent, I was

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Speaker 1: gonna send us a big job from what we are now.

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Speaker 1: That's still eight dollars. That's a big move. Well, from

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Speaker 1: fifty to seventy five, I was thinking that that was

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Speaker 1: a little bit, but from sixty whatever. Jef, last time

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Speaker 1: you were with us, we talked about gold, and I

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Speaker 1: think a fourteen hundred dollar price target on gold. Are

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Speaker 1: you still there is how we're still looking for? Definitely? Um,

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Speaker 1: you know most of the evidence coming in on central

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Speaker 1: bank buying is there. Um. The Chinese bought in both

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Speaker 1: December as well as January ten tons Um, you have

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Speaker 1: a dovish fed Um. You know the flying the white

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Speaker 1: mate right now is really what's going on with the

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Speaker 1: US dollar. But you take the the underlying fundamental picture

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Speaker 1: and you get a stronger e M, which looks to

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Speaker 1: be the case ex China. Um, that's the tail wind

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Speaker 1: that you need to push gold up to fourteen we

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Speaker 1: viewed as a grain higher as opposed to is the

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Speaker 1: house view still for a week a dollar from here?

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Speaker 1: And what undepends that? Jeff? Yeah, I mean it's you know,

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Speaker 1: the situation in Europe is probably about as bad as

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Speaker 1: is it's going to get at this point right now. Um.

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Speaker 1: And if you look at the dollar against the e

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Speaker 1: M x China, it's it's it's much weaker than what

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Speaker 1: it was last year. Jeff created John Ferre and I

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Speaker 1: need to be in Vienna April eighteen or seventeen. In

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Speaker 1: April eighteen, do we need to be there for the

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Speaker 1: OPEC meetings? I mean, do we need to be there

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Speaker 1: for all the excitement of OPEC now. I think I

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Speaker 1: think the big question with OPEC right now is the

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Speaker 1: exit strategy and when they're gonna start talking about it,

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Speaker 1: our rexit strategy. From Vienna Aprilt Tomas just trying to

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Speaker 1: arrange a vacation. I don't think it's going to be

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Speaker 1: that exciting this April. This is this last time. Jeff

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Speaker 1: is great to catch up with you. Now you've got

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Speaker 1: to run to TV. So thank you very much, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Come back when you can say, Vienna looks lovely in April,

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Speaker 1: just for a night, just for a night. Jeff went

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Speaker 1: once in I was six, just killing us. So when Jeff,

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Speaker 1: when Jeff goes to Vienna after that getting started, just

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Speaker 1: emailed in and said, you'll be lucky. You'll see Vienna Virginia.

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Speaker 1: Christina Huper here with Investco, their chief global market strategist,

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Speaker 1: to help us reset this morning. Let's look back first,

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Speaker 1: how did you reset on December of last year. Well,

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Speaker 1: we recognized at that point that the FED may actually

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Speaker 1: be feeling more flexible and maybe beginning to pivot um.

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Speaker 1: But having said that, it really wasn't confirmed for a while,

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Speaker 1: and so I don't think that man any adjusted portfolios

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Speaker 1: because of that slight indicate. But on the south side,

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Speaker 1: they're report December rather December, they're doing it for three

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Speaker 1: weeks of December. You gotta rip that up, throat and

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Speaker 1: waste basket. What's your new twenty page report when you

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Speaker 1: speak to invest Goo shareholders. Well, clearly it's a much

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Speaker 1: more accommodative environment for risk assets because of the FED pivot.

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Speaker 1: But the caveat is if economic data holds up, because

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Speaker 1: that's really the concern because this pivot was so abrupt,

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Speaker 1: was so dramatic. What it does is raise very significant

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Speaker 1: concerns about the state of the global economy. So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna need to follow the data closely before we really

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Speaker 1: have a solid picture of what is to come this year. Um,

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Speaker 1: my expectation is that we will see the global economic

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Speaker 1: data hold up, that China stimulus, for example, will power

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Speaker 1: the Chinese economy and enable them to hit that six

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Speaker 1: to hit six and a half percent target? Is that

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Speaker 1: very easily? That is my call. Your call is a

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Speaker 1: six percent plus China GDP. That is correct. That is

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Speaker 1: lonely Joe, Well, that's China is called as well and

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Speaker 1: typically what China's call is is what growth will be

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Speaker 1: as lonely as you'd expect. I think that the thing

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Speaker 1: that I find really hard to reconcile right now is

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Speaker 1: why the rates market would begin kind again pricing get

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Speaker 1: a rate cut at the same time that risky parts

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Speaker 1: of credit continue to rally. A question I asked this morning,

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Speaker 1: is an environment where the FED needs to cut is

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Speaker 1: not typically an environment where risk performs well. So I

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Speaker 1: think something's got to give. Either the rate cut doesn't happen,

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Speaker 1: or the credit market needs to adjust and adjust quickly.

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Speaker 1: Which one is it? Christina? From what you're saying, you

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Speaker 1: just don't think the right cut happens. I don't expect

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Speaker 1: a rate cut to happen. I know that the probability

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Speaker 1: is going up if we look at FED funds futures,

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Speaker 1: but we have seen a decoupling between expectations and FED policy,

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Speaker 1: so I wouldn't be surprised if that continues. I just

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Speaker 1: believe that the economic data will hold up fairly well.

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Speaker 1: I'm not telling you we're going to see very strong

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Speaker 1: global growth, but it's not going to be as bad

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Speaker 1: as many expect. As the treasury market the coupled from

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Speaker 1: the domestic growth story. Uh, it has to a certain extent.

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Speaker 1: But I think that that is to be expected given

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Speaker 1: just the abrupt change that the FED made that set

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Speaker 1: off all kinds of alarm bells and has made many

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Speaker 1: investors wonder what's going on. So we have to wait

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Speaker 1: for the data to appear to really confirm views. So

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Speaker 1: when does that actually come? Because there was an immense

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Speaker 1: amount of faith that China would be able to stabilize

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Speaker 1: the situation, that we would see it stabilized as the

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Speaker 1: year progresses. Are you seeing any of that in the

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Speaker 1: data at the moment, not particularly, although it's not terrible.

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Speaker 1: I think what we're likely to see is improvement as

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Speaker 1: we move through the spring into the summer. What gives

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Speaker 1: you the confidence because I have a lot of confidence

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Speaker 1: that the Chinese government, when they want something to happen,

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Speaker 1: they make it happen. Um. They have a lot of

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Speaker 1: stimulus that they're throwing at this fiscal, monetary administrative and

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Speaker 1: I believe it will ultimately result in grow. I want

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Speaker 1: to point out that within what we saw the last

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Speaker 1: number of days, John, that we heard the same thing

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Speaker 1: in a different way from Dr Shepherdson Pantheon. Absolutely that

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Speaker 1: within the I mean, I'm sorry, I'm looking at the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg screen and it's not giving me Christina Hooper's story

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Speaker 1: right now, but she's looking out to a restorative process.

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Speaker 1: I'm catching up with Wackin Fouls of PIMCO a little

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Speaker 1: bit later, and their cyclical outlook came out a couple

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Speaker 1: of days ago, flatlining at the new neutral. And ultimately

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Speaker 1: their take is what I think many people's take is

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Speaker 1: now that the swing factor in the global economy is

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Speaker 1: China and what happens with China later this year. They

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Speaker 1: also share that faith that we will have a little

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Speaker 1: bit of stability there, we will have a bottoming out

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Speaker 1: process that begins as the year progresses. Christina, some people

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Speaker 1: don't buy into that. How do you convince them when

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Speaker 1: you speak to clients. Well, one argument is to just

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Speaker 1: point to the US China trade war. It behooves China

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Speaker 1: to stimulate its economy so that it can last through

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Speaker 1: the U S China trade wars until the US capitulates.

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Speaker 1: That is an incredibly powerful incentive to throw stimulus at

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Speaker 1: the economy right now. So if I believe that, the

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Speaker 1: next question is how to express that in financial markets?

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Speaker 1: If I believe that China is going to stabilize, then

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at the markets right now, I'm thinking, well, actually,

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Speaker 1: European equities have already having a decent year. Chinese equities

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Speaker 1: are already having a different decent year. Likewise, with credit

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Speaker 1: markets have fixed income in Asia, in Europe? Where do

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Speaker 1: I get value? Where should I push that view through

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Speaker 1: that China is going to stabilize and things will be okay?

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Speaker 1: Is it on the short side and rates? Is it

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Speaker 1: long in equity somewhere? What should I be doing? I

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Speaker 1: see opportunities and equities, and we have a significant amount

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Speaker 1: of altility, so there's an opportunity to buy on the dips,

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Speaker 1: both in the US and emerging markets equities. Although I

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Speaker 1: focus on Asia, E m interesting. Christina Hooper grets to

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Speaker 1: catch up with you, Investco Chief Global Markets, trying just

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Speaker 1: on a really interesting morning til an interesting wickip price

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Speaker 1: action to well, the interesting Waka price action. But what's

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Speaker 1: interesting about it is where we are and where the

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Speaker 1: mood is. I mean, right now, John, if we created

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Speaker 1: a dot plot today and with the market perception of it,

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Speaker 1: it would be an original dot plot. It would would

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Speaker 1: Let's be clear about that. I mean the market could

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Speaker 1: could have its ound dot right now on the FMC

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Speaker 1: del plant, you know what I mean. The Christina, they

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Speaker 1: don't move. I know you've got to get up and leave,

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Speaker 1: but but Christina, I think this is critical. And then

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Speaker 1: I went back and looked at two years of dots,

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Speaker 1: which you could do on the Bloomberg, and the slopes

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Speaker 1: have all changed. I mean, the view out for the

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Speaker 1: fancy people at the FED is radically different than it

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Speaker 1: was two years ago, right, absolutely, But I think that

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Speaker 1: has a lot to do with the fact that this

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Speaker 1: is a policy prescription essentially created in a vacuum by

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Speaker 1: each individual member of the f o MC, So it

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Speaker 1: doesn't reflect group think and the kind of consensus that

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Speaker 1: goes along with Actually, but our listeners don't have a

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Speaker 1: luxury of group think in consensus. They're just scared stuff

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Speaker 1: and they missed the rebound January February and Cell, what

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Speaker 1: are you doing to allocate right now for those that

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Speaker 1: didn't enjoy up eleven. Well, we're encouraging them to take

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Speaker 1: a long term view, which means that right now central

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Speaker 1: bank policy is relatively accommodative. Although I would say that

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Speaker 1: one area I do worry about and We've already seen

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Speaker 1: a run up there as European equities just because one

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Speaker 1: thing that not many people is talking are talking about

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Speaker 1: is that Marrow Droggy leaves this position at the end

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Speaker 1: of October. So he's essentially a lame duck, and so

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Speaker 1: no matter what kind of stimulus we see coming out

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Speaker 1: of the e c B, we may not see markets

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Speaker 1: to Christina Uper, thank you so much with Investco. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen

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Speaker 1: to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast platform

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Speaker 1: you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom Keane before the podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio