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Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on

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Speaker 1: what we saw on January six was the worst attack

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Speaker 1: on our democracy since the Civil War, hasn't it? Trump

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Speaker 1: lit the flame, He poured gasoline on the fire. He

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Speaker 1: is unfit for any office. Ours is not a system

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Speaker 1: of justice where foot soldiers go to jail and the

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Speaker 1: masterminds and ring leaders get a free pass. Bloomberg Sound

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Speaker 1: on Politics, Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. This

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Speaker 1: probably goes down as one of the most successful congressional

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Speaker 1: committees in modern history. And I'm sure the Justice Department

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Speaker 1: will take whatever recommendations that they make and take them serious.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The

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Speaker 1: January six Committee completes its work with criminal referrals. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the fastest hour in politics, as the committee recommends

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Speaker 1: charges against the former president Donald Trump and several of

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Speaker 1: his associates for trying to overturn the election. In the

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Speaker 1: case of Trump and lawyer John Eastman inciting an insurrection,

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Speaker 1: we'll bring you inside the hearing room for today's session

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Speaker 1: and talk about its significance with former federal prosecutor Michael Zelden.

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Speaker 1: And Bloomberg national political reporter Mike Dorning, along with our

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Speaker 1: panel Bloomberg political contributor, Democratic analyst Genie Schanzano, along with

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Speaker 1: Republican strategists Lisa Kamusa Miller, former calms director at the

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Speaker 1: r n C. It was the final meeting of the

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Speaker 1: January six Committee today, with a couple hundred people gathered

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Speaker 1: in the room, including reporters like me. Chair Benny Thompson

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Speaker 1: dropped the gabble once more. The Select Committee to Investigate

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Speaker 1: the January's six attack on the United States Capitol will

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Speaker 1: be in order, allowing the nine members of the panel

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Speaker 1: to walk through the evidence they found over the course

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Speaker 1: of seventeen months and over a thousand witness interviews. Congresswoman

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Speaker 1: Liz Cheney among the most shameful of this committee's findings

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Speaker 1: was the President Trump sat in the dining room off

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Speaker 1: the Oval office watching the violent riot at the Capitol

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Speaker 1: on television for hours. He would not issue a public

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Speaker 1: statement instructing his supporters to disperse and leave the Capitol.

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Speaker 1: Congressman Jamie Raskin was tasked with walking through the committee's

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Speaker 1: criminal referrals to the Justice Department. We believe that there

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Speaker 1: is more than sufficient evidence to refer former President Donald J. Trump,

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Speaker 1: John Eastman, and others for violating Title eighteen, Section three.

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Speaker 1: This statute makes it a crime to conspire to defraud

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Speaker 1: the United States. In other words, to make an agreement

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Speaker 1: to impair, obstruct, or defeat the lawful functions of the

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Speaker 1: United States government by deceitful or dishonest means. Conspire to

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Speaker 1: defraud the United States is actually one of four charges outlined,

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Speaker 1: including as well citing an insurrection. The president has an

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Speaker 1: affirmative primary constitutional duty to act to take care that

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Speaker 1: the laws be faithfully executed. Nothing could be a greater

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Speaker 1: betrayal of this duty than to assist an insurrection against

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Speaker 1: the constitutional order. This is where we begin with Mike Dorning,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg National politics reporter, who has been steeped in this

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Speaker 1: process since the first hearing. Well, I guess I should

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Speaker 1: say since January six. Actually, Mike, it's great to see you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for coming back, uh to talk to us

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Speaker 1: here an important day. Donald Trump is referred along with

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Speaker 1: John Eastman. This was his lawyer who who crafted the

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Speaker 1: whole idea of the alternate slate of electors. That's right,

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Speaker 1: It's pretty amazing. When you think about it a particularly

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Speaker 1: since he's heading into a reelection campaign. There is a

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Speaker 1: constitutional disqualifification. If you're convicted of insurrection, you can't um

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Speaker 1: serve in any office. Um. But more importantly, it's a crime.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you to be convicted of it, that

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Speaker 1: is a very you know, a crime that sort of

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Speaker 1: cuts to the heart of the political order and would

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Speaker 1: be you know, certainly a staying on him. In this case,

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Speaker 1: it's really just a detailed case being laid out at

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Speaker 1: the American Public hast. There was a reference to other

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Speaker 1: co conspirators. Will we be getting more names when the

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Speaker 1: final report is released? Well, the the actual summary report

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Speaker 1: does refer to um Rudy Giuliani, another legal advisor who

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Speaker 1: was Mayor of New York, Mark Meadows, his chief of staff,

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Speaker 1: and Jeffrey Clark, who is this kind of obscure Justice

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Speaker 1: Department official who tried to get Trump to a point

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Speaker 1: of Attorney General to kind of pursue this idea of

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Speaker 1: fraud in the elections. Do we know what kind of

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Speaker 1: communication there has been between the committee and the Department

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Speaker 1: of Justice. They're going to get a big package in

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Speaker 1: the mail here or the courrier is going to knock

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Speaker 1: on the doors. Hey, these guys have been real busy. Uh.

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Speaker 1: To what extent has the d o J already gone

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Speaker 1: through all this stuff? Well, they've they've obviously watch the

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Speaker 1: hearings like everyone else, and all the things that are

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Speaker 1: out there in public. My understanding from speaking to Chairman

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Speaker 1: Thompson just a few days ago, is that they have

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Speaker 1: not yet turned over all the um transcripts and stuff

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Speaker 1: to the Justice Department, but will very quickly and they

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Speaker 1: will give them the final report and a criminal referral

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Speaker 1: letter with evidence that they'll be sending later this week.

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Speaker 1: The final report likely to be out Thursday, from what

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Speaker 1: I understand or at some point later on this week

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Speaker 1: point later on. Hundreds of pages long, yeah, eight chapters. Now,

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Speaker 1: just the summary was a hundred and sixty one pages long,

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Speaker 1: so you're probably talking like a thousand pages with complete,

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Speaker 1: uh verbatim of all the witness testimony I understand or

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Speaker 1: will be selected. I think that there is going to

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Speaker 1: be the transcripts verbatim transcripts released subsequent to that final report,

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Speaker 1: and they say that will all come out by the

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Speaker 1: end of the year when the committee will evaporate with

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Speaker 1: the Congress anything surprise you today. I know there was

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Speaker 1: talk of charges, um, not necessarily four of them. Well, um,

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Speaker 1: to me, the main thing was pretty well telegraphed in advance,

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Speaker 1: which was, Um, what's important here is the criminal referral

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Speaker 1: against Trump and particularly adding an insurrection charge, which is

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Speaker 1: the most inflammatory charge, And that is what is really

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Speaker 1: going to matter politically and probably substantively coming out of

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Speaker 1: this report. Um. The main thing about this report is

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Speaker 1: just because there's a referral doesn't mean the Justice Department

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Speaker 1: has to do anything formally, I mean as a legal matter.

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Speaker 1: It's just like you and I wrote a note and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: he ought to be prosecuted that said, this is a

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Speaker 1: big committee in Congress with more than a thousand witnesses,

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Speaker 1: and they're gonna lay out a really serious report that's

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Speaker 1: going to make this case and what the ideas it

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Speaker 1: will stand for history, and that it will be sort

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Speaker 1: of a bulwark of this idea that Trump committed insurrection.

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Speaker 1: That is an important thing that I feel like people forget.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's asking all day about well, what's the d o

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Speaker 1: J gonna do? What's and what was the point of

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Speaker 1: this committee? Anyway? The d o J. The point was

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Speaker 1: to to set the record straight. The point was history

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Speaker 1: posterity right, so people a hundred years from now could

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Speaker 1: find out what happened on January six. That is exactly

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Speaker 1: the way the committee members think about it, and that

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Speaker 1: is that they want for the rest of history, no

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Speaker 1: sort of lost cause, the restoration of Trump reexamination of this.

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Speaker 1: They want their record to be there for everyone to

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Speaker 1: look at and to set the tone for history. Got it,

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Speaker 1: my great work, and thank you for helping us understand

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Speaker 1: all of this over the past many meetings. Thank you

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Speaker 1: have to find something else toitude. Mike Dorning, Bloomberg Politics

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Speaker 1: reporter with us here on Bloomberg Sound On as we

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Speaker 1: add the voice of Michael Zelden, former federal prosecutor and

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Speaker 1: former special counsel to Robert Mueller while at the Department

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Speaker 1: of Justice. Michael's helped us a lot through this time

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Speaker 1: as well. And Michael, it's great to have you back.

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Speaker 1: I'll ask you the same question I asked Mike Dorning.

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Speaker 1: What does d O J to when all of this

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Speaker 1: material arrives, They read it, and they assess it, and

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Speaker 1: they evaluated in relationship to the material that they are

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Speaker 1: themselves independently gathering in their grand jury investigation, and then

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Speaker 1: in the review process they make determinations as to whether

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Speaker 1: or not they believe they have a prosecutable case that

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Speaker 1: they can win at trial and sustain on appeal, and

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Speaker 1: if so, then they make a decision whether to charge.

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Speaker 1: And do you have a gut check after everything you've

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Speaker 1: heard here, or give us a sense of the cultures,

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Speaker 1: you know, competing cultures between DJ and Congress. They've got

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Speaker 1: their own investigation going. They're potentially learning more than the

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Speaker 1: Committee did, except that they don't have to prove anything

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Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt. They just have to have evidence

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Speaker 1: that they feel is sufficient to justify a referral. The

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Speaker 1: justice forman then has to be able to marshal that

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Speaker 1: evidence and the facts supporting it to have a jury

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Speaker 1: reach a verdict beyond reasonable doubts. So it's a different

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Speaker 1: span dared that each has. That said, of course, they're

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Speaker 1: looking at the same category of witnesses and they're gathering

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Speaker 1: the same types of testimony, with the big difference being

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Speaker 1: that d o J, because of its subpoena power in

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Speaker 1: the context of a criminal investigation, has been able to

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Speaker 1: breach the stonewalling of false claims of executive privilege. So

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Speaker 1: they've been getting the testimony that the Congress could not get.

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Speaker 1: So they've got the stuff that's additive to what the

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Speaker 1: Congress was not able to get. How much of this

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Speaker 1: is about Donald Trump versus his co conspirators? John Eastman

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Speaker 1: was named by the committee today, others were listed, uh

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Speaker 1: in the summary of the forthcoming report. Are they all

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Speaker 1: in really big trouble? Or is this a Donald Trump story? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a Donald Trump story from headline News, if you will.

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Speaker 1: But in terms of legal liability, they alleged conspiracies here,

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Speaker 1: and conspiracies require more than one per and so there

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Speaker 1: are people here who have jeopardy and you know, I

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Speaker 1: expect are represented by hopefully good lawyers, because the system

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Speaker 1: works best when everyone has good lawyers. And I think

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Speaker 1: that there are a lot of people who are going

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Speaker 1: to be facing very difficult decisions about whether to fight

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Speaker 1: this or begin now to cooperate. There's a category of

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Speaker 1: crimes here or potential crimes here that hasn't been explicitly

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Speaker 1: set forth in the report, but which are implied in

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Speaker 1: the report, which is suburb suborning, perjury and witness tampering

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Speaker 1: and that's the testimony for some people like I Hope

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Speaker 1: Hicks said that before she testified, she got a call

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Speaker 1: which said essentially, he's watching. He can help you. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can not recall things. Even if you recall them.

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Speaker 1: That stuff, if provable, are very serious charges against lawyers

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Speaker 1: for supporting the perjury and for witness tampering for those

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Speaker 1: who gave the directions to pass along the will protect

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Speaker 1: you if you do the right thing. And if they

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Speaker 1: have evidence sufficient of h to that, then I think

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Speaker 1: you're going to see a lot of people rushing to cooperate. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's and and and Zola referred to that today. I'll

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Speaker 1: never forget that. The conclusion of I think it was

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Speaker 1: the eighth hearing Liz Cheney referring to witness tampering. That's

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Speaker 1: a big part of this case that we haven't followed

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Speaker 1: through with, isn't it exactly? And from a pure prosecutors standpoint,

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Speaker 1: if you have evidence from a witness that says I

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Speaker 1: received a call from an attorney on behalf of his

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of um, not necessary client, but but

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Speaker 1: on whose behalf he was speaking to say do the

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Speaker 1: right thing and will protect you, that's you know, straight

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Speaker 1: out of the last scene in The Godfather before the

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Speaker 1: guy kills himself in the bathtub. That's serious stuff, and UM,

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Speaker 1: people just don't want to lose law, licenses or liberty

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Speaker 1: for protecting people, um in that way. And I think

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Speaker 1: as a prosecutor, who's going to look at that stuff

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Speaker 1: and say, this is a gold mine for me to

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Speaker 1: obtain cooperation and even convictions. Well, the hits keep coming here, Michael.

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to sneak up on you, but we've

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Speaker 1: got a breaking story that has emerged since you and

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Speaker 1: I started talking, and it has to do with this

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Speaker 1: Title forty two border rule. The Supreme Court Chief Justice

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Speaker 1: John Roberts has just temporarily blocked the scheduled ending of

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Speaker 1: Title forty two this week. Is something that got a

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Speaker 1: lot of talk over the weekend leading up to this.

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Speaker 1: We know that there are, uh, there are huge numbers

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Speaker 1: of people who have been inspired to approach the border

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Speaker 1: because of this rule change. This was the COVID rule

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Speaker 1: change put in place during the Trump administration. Uh. Do

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Speaker 1: you have a sense, Michael, of of what this means,

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Speaker 1: uh for the administration. Roberts is asking the White House

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Speaker 1: to respond to the request by five o'clock tomorrow five

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Speaker 1: pm on Tuesday, UM. The restrictions have been scheduled to

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Speaker 1: end on Wednesday. The order gives the court more time

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Speaker 1: to decide how to handle the case. Where's this going well?

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Speaker 1: And in Robert's order, he says, the Court wants to

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Speaker 1: act quickly on this. So, as you say, the biderization,

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Speaker 1: Widen administration has until five pm tomorrow, and I think

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Speaker 1: that the Court is going to take this up as

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Speaker 1: quickly as they can. I think this freeze is gonna

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Speaker 1: stay in place until they have a decision. And all

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Speaker 1: of this, of course means that the burden is on

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Speaker 1: Congress to come up with an immigration plan that's comprehensive.

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Speaker 1: George W. Bush almost had it, but we just couldn't

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Speaker 1: quite get there. And you know, people can criticize Biden,

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Speaker 1: or they can criticize Trump about the policy are bad,

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Speaker 1: but really the burden is on Congress to come up

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Speaker 1: with a solution here that makes sense. And hopefully this

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Speaker 1: will precipitate Congress doing that. But in the meantime, these

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Speaker 1: crossings are gonna remain blocked, and the title forty two

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Speaker 1: stuff is going to remain in place until the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court issues final ruling, and that could be sometime from now.

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Speaker 1: How does this work with the administration's response. I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: that that that's that's written already. Well, I assume that

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Speaker 1: they did have a sense that this would be sued

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Speaker 1: and that there would be a likelihood of termination of

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Speaker 1: the uh temporary hold in the termination of the of

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Speaker 1: the Trump era immigration policy Title forty two. You know,

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Speaker 1: in most of these cases, if you're in the White

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Speaker 1: House and you're waiting for a decision by the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court during Supreme Court week, you write a press release

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Speaker 1: that says we're very pleased, and you write a press

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Speaker 1: release says we're so disappointed, and you figure out which

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Speaker 1: one you're gonna do after they it comes out. And

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Speaker 1: so I think that they they had two files who said,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Spreme Court did the right thing, and

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Speaker 1: then the one said, you know, we're disappointed, but we're

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Speaker 1: going to proceed. And so they're disappointing they're going to proceed.

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Speaker 1: To be clear, Republican officials from nineteen states asked to

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Speaker 1: keep Title forty two in place. Arizona's Attorney general making

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Speaker 1: that move today, and that that's why I guess what

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Speaker 1: precipitated the ruling. Would we have heard from the Chief

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Speaker 1: Justice otherwise? No. I think that's right. I think the

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Speaker 1: Arizona Attorney General, I've never had pronounce his name, Brown

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Speaker 1: vich Um, taking the lead for the for the forty

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Speaker 1: two states, said you know, this is a reckless thing

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Speaker 1: to get rid of Title forty two, and the Spreme

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Speaker 1: Court said, yeah, let's let's take a look at this.

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Speaker 1: Spending time with Michael Zelden, former federal prosecutor, former Special

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Speaker 1: counsel Robert Mueller while out the Department of Justice, do

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Speaker 1: you have a sense of how long, Michael, it will

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Speaker 1: take us getting back to the January six matter and

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Speaker 1: the potential for an indictment of Donald Trump. How long

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Speaker 1: it will take the special counsel to wrap his work.

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Speaker 1: I think it's going to take a bit of time

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Speaker 1: because while the d o J is running its own

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Speaker 1: investigation now, they're going to receive a thousand depth positions

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Speaker 1: and a million documents. As with the committee said, they've

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Speaker 1: gathered and they've got to look at all that stuff

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Speaker 1: because they have to make a determination as to if

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Speaker 1: there was a criminal trial, what stuff is potentially exculpatory,

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Speaker 1: because that has to by law go to the defense,

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Speaker 1: and so they've got to work their way through all

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Speaker 1: of this evidence weighing against their own evidence, decide where

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Speaker 1: they can indict, decide what they have to give the

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Speaker 1: other side. So I don't think we're looking at anything

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Speaker 1: that's going to be done the next couple of weeks. Michael,

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Speaker 1: Thank you as ever. Michael Zelden with us again on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound on the Fastest Hour in Politics. Will assemble

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Speaker 1: the panel next for their take. This eas Bloomberg. The

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Speaker 1: question is on the motion to favorably report to the House.

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Speaker 1: Those in favors say I I. Those opposed No, in

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Speaker 1: the opinion of the chair, guys have it? Mr Chairman,

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Speaker 1: I request a corded vote. A recorded vote is requested.

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Speaker 1: The clerk will call the role Miss Cheney, I, Miss Cheney, I,

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Speaker 1: Miss Laugheran, Hi, Miss Laughran, Mr Chef Hi, Mr Chef, I,

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Speaker 1: Mr Aguilar, Mr Aguilar, Hi, Mrs Murphy, Mrs Murphy, Hi,

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Speaker 1: Mr Askin, Hi, Mr Raskin, I, Mrs Lauria, Mrs Lauria, I,

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Speaker 1: Mr Kinzinger Kinsinger, Mr Kensinger, Hi, how's the chair recorded?

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Speaker 1: Mr Chairman? You are not recorded? The chair votes? I

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Speaker 1: Mr Chairman, I the clerk will report the vote. Mr Chairman.

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Speaker 1: On this vote, there are nine eyes and zero knows.

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Speaker 1: The motion has agreed to without objection. A motion to

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Speaker 1: reconsider is laid on the table without objection. And so

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Speaker 1: it went today in the Cannon House Office Building, the

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Speaker 1: culmination of a seventeen month investigation. And what you just

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Speaker 1: heard is the first time ever such a referral of

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Speaker 1: a former US president has taken place in the history

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Speaker 1: of the capital. It's pretty remarkable. I'm Joe Matthew and

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Speaker 1: Washington is we reflect on this final January six committee

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Speaker 1: hearing its implications with our panel. Genie Schanzano is with

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Speaker 1: us Bloomberg Politics contributor and Democratic analyst, along with Lisa

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Speaker 1: Camusa Miller, former communications director the r n C. It's

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Speaker 1: great to have both of you with us here. Genie.

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Speaker 1: The criminal referrals do not, of course lead to charges,

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Speaker 1: but it at a pronounced level of argument to what

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Speaker 1: the Department of Justice is already reading. Yeah, they do.

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Speaker 1: I mean obstruction, conspiracy and incitement and surrection and all

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Speaker 1: against the president or the former president, plus John Eastman

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Speaker 1: and others. Of course, they left that open. And then

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Speaker 1: the referral of four sitting members of Congress, including the

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Speaker 1: next head of the Judiciary Committee, potentially the next speaker

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Speaker 1: to the House Ethics Committee. I mean, these are big referrals.

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Speaker 1: They don't hold the weight of the law certainly, but

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Speaker 1: they do put pressure on the White on the d

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Speaker 1: O J rather and they also, uh, you know, importantly

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Speaker 1: hold the former president accountable in a way. I don't

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Speaker 1: think when this started many of us would have thought.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many things about the way this

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Speaker 1: committee conducted itself that I think forever change the way

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Speaker 1: select committees on oversight like this conduct themselves going forward.

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Speaker 1: For instance, I don't think we'll ever see another opposition

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Speaker 1: party minority party refused to see members ever again. Big mistake.

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Speaker 1: Big mistake, you could argue for Kevin McCarthy, who, to

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Speaker 1: your point, uh, is being accused of violating House Ethics rules. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I want to get into this for just a moment,

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Speaker 1: because everybody's talking about the criminal referrals here. This again

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Speaker 1: has Congressman Jamie Raskin getting to this point. He wasn't

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Speaker 1: even naming names today, but talked about the four lawmakers involved.

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Speaker 1: We took the significant step of issuing them subpoenas based

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Speaker 1: on the volume of information particular members possessed about one

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Speaker 1: or more parts of President Trump's plans to overturn the election.

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Speaker 1: None of the subpoena members complied, and we are now

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Speaker 1: referring four members of Congress for appropriate sanction by the

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Speaker 1: House Ethics Committee for failure to comply with lawful subpoenas. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so they are the aforementioned Kevin McCarthy, he who would

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Speaker 1: be Speaker, Jim Jordan's Republican from Ohio, Scott Perry of Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: and Andy Biggs, the Republican from Arizona, who was actually

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Speaker 1: running against Kevin McCarthy. Uh, Lisa, your thoughts on this,

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Speaker 1: knowing that it's going to be a Republican House next year,

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Speaker 1: these are going nowhere right? Well? I mean, Joe, I

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Speaker 1: think what keeps me up at right now going forward

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Speaker 1: is that this is like a political catastrophe. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is the one thing that I can think about.

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Speaker 1: We're coming up on the second anniversary of January six.

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Speaker 1: It's taken this long to get to this point, so

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Speaker 1: we've hand of probably another even if they even if

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Speaker 1: refers to d O J even if d O j

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Speaker 1: decides to take it up. It's going to happen in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the next presidential campaign. And how is

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Speaker 1: that going to work? Right? Well, I can't begin to imagine.

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Speaker 1: Uh does that mean you're looking for an indictment? By

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Speaker 1: the way, Well, it certainly means that something has to happen.

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Speaker 1: I think this is Joe Biden's legacy, if you're asking me,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that this is his opportunity to

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Speaker 1: preserve democracy and he can he should do everything he

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Speaker 1: can to encourage the d o J to move forward. Unfortunately, though,

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Speaker 1: what does that mean for his presidential campaign? Yes, when

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Speaker 1: we come back in January, the Republicans will take over

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Speaker 1: the House. It still remains to be seen who's going

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Speaker 1: to be in charge of the House Republicans. I still

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Speaker 1: think it's Kevin mcarthy has a long way to go

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Speaker 1: to get to a team. And does this hurt or help?

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Speaker 1: I think it hurts him. It hurts him. So your

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Speaker 1: Speaker Scalise could be rising in this case, Genie, he

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Speaker 1: could listen at this point, Joe Matthew, you could be

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Speaker 1: Speaker of the House. And it's what Lisa could be

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Speaker 1: speaker now, it's you know, it's tough. He's not to

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Speaker 1: Lisa's point, he's he's not near the two eight teen.

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Speaker 1: There's a long way to go on that he is

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Speaker 1: going to have to make every deal under the sun,

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Speaker 1: including to agree that one member of his uh his

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Speaker 1: house could vote to remove him. And I think we're

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Speaker 1: going to see several removals if that's allowed. So he's

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Speaker 1: you know, really really setting himself up if he is

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Speaker 1: elected for a very weak speakership. Certainly this referral to

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Speaker 1: the Ethics Committee that will expire the minute Republicans take

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Speaker 1: over on January three. But that said, I think it's

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Speaker 1: a reminder that this has far reaching implications because it's

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Speaker 1: not just a former president that's bad enough. These are

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Speaker 1: people who are leading our country. Speaker of the House

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Speaker 1: is third in line to the presidency, and he is

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Speaker 1: acute most of this kind of level of violation of

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Speaker 1: Congress potentially next speaker. That's true, that is tremendous. Not

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Speaker 1: to mention Perry Jordan's Biggs and of course Moe Brooks,

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Speaker 1: who is out and not named, but he still faces

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Speaker 1: charges as well. I want to ask you both about

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Speaker 1: the way this session ended. Knowing that Republicans call this

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Speaker 1: a political exercise. The president, the former president Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: in this case, refers to it as the Unselect Committee.

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Speaker 1: But listen to Benny Thompson as he drops the gavel

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Speaker 1: on this session to a close, being no further business

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Speaker 1: without objection, the Select Committee stands a joint Okay, so

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Speaker 1: a lot of people in the room. There's the gavel.

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Speaker 1: People get the members get up. But listen to this

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Speaker 1: applause from the back of the room. That was not,

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Speaker 1: by the way, Jeanie and Lisa coming from the reporters

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Speaker 1: who you know, you don't you don't applaud, You don't

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Speaker 1: move at a news event, right, this is journalism. But

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Speaker 1: there are many rows of people who are there to observe,

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Speaker 1: and they all have their own reasons for being there. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But Lisa, does that call into question this exercise and

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Speaker 1: reinforce the idea that it is a political one. I

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Speaker 1: disagree with that, a dent. Listen, I'll tell you, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I worked in the House. I worked for the Speaker

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Speaker 1: of the House and and for me, it was really

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Speaker 1: important for me to make sure that democracy was preserved

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Speaker 1: and that we worked at the highest level because of

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Speaker 1: the job that we were given so I think that

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Speaker 1: the committee conducted themselves amazingly. I couldn't stand not to

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Speaker 1: see the coverage as it went. I think Liz Cheney

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Speaker 1: and Adam Kinzinger did a fantastic job as leaders in

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Speaker 1: the party. I feel like the ones who didn't step up,

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Speaker 1: you didn't come forward, who didn't speak up and say

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Speaker 1: what they had to say, that would happen on January six,

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Speaker 1: or cabets as well. Put Jennie, it's not lost on

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Speaker 1: me that nearly half of that panel, the nine members

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Speaker 1: sitting on that committee are done after this. They either

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Speaker 1: lost their elections, they were primaried, or they're retiring. That's right,

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Speaker 1: and then that sort of points you to where we're

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Speaker 1: gonna go in the one and eighteen Congress, in the

429
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 1: House at least, and you know what I mean worth noting, right,

430
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: this committee ended careers, Genie. It absolutely ended careers, you know,

431
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: particularly on the Republican side. Um their votes to impeach

432
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,359
Speaker 1: the president, particularly for the second time, the second impeachment,

433
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: ended careers. And that's really you know, listen, he's ended

434
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's you know, Donald Trump has you know, impacted

435
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: seriously Kevin McCarthy's ability to be speaker because without Donald Trump,

436
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: arguably Kevin McCarthy could have had the thirty to sixty

437
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: extra members in the House that he thought he was

438
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: going to have. And Donald Trump's, you know, sort of

439
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: monkeying around in the primaries left him with a very

440
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: very small margin, and now he's beholden to this far

441
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: right wing, never Kevin's wing of the party. Well, so

442
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: here we are, Lisa. Indeed, a lot of careers were

443
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: ended with this exercide. Is I'm also assuming that Rudy

444
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: Giuliani and maybe Johnny has been not going to have

445
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: very pronounced legal careers after this. What about Donald Trump's

446
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: political career? Well, I've never kept the man out because

447
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: every time I think we do, we underestimate how powerful

448
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: that bases behind it, right, So I think that there's

449
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: so many factors at play here. He still does very

450
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: much have control over a very vocal and very noisy

451
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: part of the party that I'll be honest with you,

452
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: it's the bright light that the media and columnists and

453
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 1: everybody else in the world that's following politics are still

454
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: paying attention to. So they still have a platform, they

455
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: still have a lot to say, and people are unhappy

456
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: they're seeing the Congress is still playing games, and in

457
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: their opinion, they're not getting immigration done, they're not getting

458
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: the budget done in time, they're not getting money in

459
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: the pockets of the people who care about that. The

460
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: So people are still angry and if they're looking for

461
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: someone to point to right now, unfortunately it's the party

462
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: that's in the lighthouse. And that makes it very difficult

463
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: for Joe Biden to come back. But also Joe who's

464
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 1: going to run against him? No one so far has stood.

465
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: That is the rub, isn't it? At least for now?

466
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: Lisa Kamusa Miller and Genie Schanzano. We've got a great

467
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: panel today and we have yet to discuss this breaker

468
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 1: on Title fourteen with them. We're gonna get a news

469
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: update and will dig into that as well with Greg Store,

470
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: Supreme Court reporter uh in short, Title forty two that

471
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: I say fourteen, Title forty two will not be lifted

472
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: this week as scheduled. This is Bloomberg, So No with

473
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Republican officials from over a

474
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: dozen states asked the Supreme Court to keep Title forty

475
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: two in place just days before the COVID era border

476
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 1: rule was to be lifted. The Supreme Court Chief Justice

477
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 1: John Roberts did so, this story breaking a short time ago,

478
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: so that blocks the scheduled ending of these Title forty

479
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: two restrictions that were actually put in place by Donald Trump.

480
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: And it's a story that spent in the air because

481
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: of the looming end of these rules loomed large on

482
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: Sunday morning television. Senator Alex Padilla, the California Democrats, chairs

483
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: the Senate Judiciary Committee's Immigration, Citizenship and Border Safety Subcommittee,

484
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: was on ABC this week. He pushed back against what

485
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: he called Republican rhetoric. All the Republican rhetoric about chaos

486
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: at the border, open bords, etcetera. Number One, they have

487
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: yet to come forward with the plan of how to

488
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: better handle the scenario. Number Two, they have not been

489
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 1: willing to commit the additional resources that the Apartment and

490
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: agencies say that they need to handle this big influx. That's,

491
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: of course, before we knew this was going to happen.

492
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: Even today. Karine John Pierre, the White House Press Secretary,

493
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: asked about this in the briefing room, making the case

494
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: for it to be lifted if they are serious Republicans

495
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: and Congress are serious about securing the border, then they

496
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 1: should assist in making sure the men and women at

497
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: the DHS have what they need to get this done.

498
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: For more on this, we talked to our expert on

499
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, Bloomberg Supreme Court reporter Greg's store is here.

500
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: That was a pretty quick turnaround. I guess it had

501
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: to be Greg. With these rules set to be lifted

502
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: just two days from now, Uh, what's going to happen next?

503
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: I know that the administration has to respond by tomorrow afternoon,

504
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: and then what happens. Yeah, So what's important to keep

505
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,959
Speaker 1: in mind is what the Chief Justice did here as

506
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: an administrative order, and the Court has been doing this

507
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: a lot lately, basically just saying we know we have

508
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: a deadline, let's just pause everything while we consider this request.

509
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: It doesn't necessarily mean one way or the other how

510
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: they're going to deal with the request. So what I

511
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: would expect to happen potentially in very short order, because

512
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: as you said, it's it's only tomorrow after it's only

513
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: until tomorrow that the administration has to respond. I expect

514
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: the Court as the whole will say whether it is

515
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: going to block the ending of these restrictions while the

516
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: courts consider the legal challenge to it. So it is

517
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: possible the Court will basically doing about face from what

518
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: Roberts did temporarily today and actually UM allow these restrictions

519
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: to UH to expire as scheduled this week. What is

520
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: the case in this legal challenge? What are the grounds? Yeah,

521
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: so it's procedurally complicated. The core of it is that

522
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: a judge said that uh, back when in the Trump

523
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: administration era, when when this policy was put in place. UH,

524
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: a judge said, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

525
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: didn't follow the law known as the a p A

526
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: the Administrative Procedures Act, didn't follow proper procedures in and

527
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: putting these restrictions in place. And so the judge ordered

528
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: the policy struck dout. And the question, the more recent

529
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: question is can these states intervened to try to revive

530
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: these restrictions. The Biden administration is content to let them end,

531
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: and because it has been sort of pursuing the end

532
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: of it on a separate track, and so kind of

533
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: the issue before the Supreme Court right now is really, UH, narrowly,

534
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: whether the states can jump in and do the defending

535
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: of the rule that the Biden administration doesn't want to do.

536
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 1: How does the administration prepare for this? They obviously need

537
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: to have resources lined up for when this rule is lifted. Yeah, yeah,

538
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: And that is a good question. And and a big

539
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: part of what the States are arguing right now is

540
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: that this has been an unleashed chaos at the border

541
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: and it's gonna potentially double the number of people who

542
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: cross the border. Uh. Whether or not that actually happens

543
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: remains to be seen, but that's sort of the the

544
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: what the Supreme Court is being confronted with this argument

545
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 1: that there's uh, you know, a really really big interest

546
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: in that it's going to fall hard on the states

547
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: that might have to pick up some of the costs

548
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: for dealing with additional people coming across the border. What

549
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: are the chances this actually is lifted on Wednesday? You know,

550
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: I'd really hate to predict, because you know, with all

551
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: the procedural complications, you know, that possibility exists, right, it

552
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: does exist. I think probably more likely if it gets lifted,

553
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: it won't be Wednesday, if only because there's a good

554
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: chance that or at least a reasonable chance that somebody

555
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: on the court will want to write something about this.

556
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: Whoever is on the losing side will want to write something,

557
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: and that may take a few days. So the Chief

558
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: Justice's order today at least buys the court a little

559
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: bit of time, so it could happen later on the week,

560
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: It could happen next week. We'll just have to wait

561
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: and see. What a great time for this to all

562
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: happen in the Border Patrol on Christmas Eve? Basically next

563
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: to you, Happy holidays, Greg Store, Thank you as always,

564
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: always an intelligent conversation with Greg helps us distill what

565
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: in the world we're getting from the Supreme Court. Greg.

566
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: But the Governor of Texas UH tried to put his

567
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,239
Speaker 1: finger on if the courts not intervene uh and and

568
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: put a halt to the removal of Title forty two,

569
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a total chaos. That's the way it

570
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,479
Speaker 1: sounded on ABC this week yesterday. I want to hear

571
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: from the panel on this. Well, we have a moment

572
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:20,479
Speaker 1: with Jeanie Schanzano and Lisa Camuso Miller our panel today. Lisa,

573
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: is this a win for Republicans or is it more

574
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: complicated than that? I think it's way more complicated than that.

575
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: I think it sounds like that both sides agree that

576
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: if the title was lifted then it would be a

577
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: catastrophe for the country. And so I think that the

578
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: one thing I heard last week, Joe, when they were

579
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: talking about the fact that Senator Cinema from Arizona was

580
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: going to come and she was going to change parties

581
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: and she was going to be an independent, there was

582
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: some discussion that that might be useful to the Republican

583
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: leader McConnell, because he had he definitely has conference and

584
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: met with her in the past over immigration, and that

585
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: he might be easily persuaded or more easily persuaded to

586
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: consider this now that she might conference with the Republicans. Well,

587
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: this is interesting for the Biden administration, Genie, how do

588
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: you manage this after making the argument over and over

589
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: that these rules need to be lifted. Now you know,

590
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: in my view, this is a win for the Biden

591
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 1: administration that they will not talk about. They will say

592
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: exactly what the Press secretary said, we follow the law,

593
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: we follow what the Chief justice, and that they were

594
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: saved by the bell. They were saved by the bell.

595
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: The last thing they needed was this lifted on Wednesday,

596
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 1: and you know, five to six thousand people coming over

597
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 1: the borders three Christmas more on Christmas weekend. The pictures

598
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: coming out of there over the weekend are disastrous. It's

599
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: freezing cold there. This is a humanitarian disaster. They haven't

600
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: done enough on the border. They need to get down

601
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 1: there and do that, and this buys them a little

602
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: bit of time. So politically it's a short term win

603
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: for them, but one that they're not going to talk about,

604
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: just like McCarthy's not going to talk about the fact

605
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: that an omnibus would be the best thing that ever

606
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,439
Speaker 1: happened to him while he's telegraphing the opposite. There's politics. Well,

607
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: that's right, although I mean, Lisa, you can call this

608
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: so a moral victory for Republicans, right, I mean, they

609
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: just fulfilled their argument before the Supreme Court, and while

610
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: we still have to get through the response and all

611
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: that tomorrow. John Roberts sided with Greg Abbott. He did,

612
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: and I think though I think everybody is saying that

613
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: this was going to be an issue, so as much

614
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: as you know it's an r D problem, the problem

615
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: is that no one has done enough at the border,

616
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: and the immigration issue has got to be resolved, and

617
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: there has to be some come together on this. So

618
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: neither of you expect comprehensive, comprehensive immigration reform in this

619
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: next Congress, do you, Lisa? No, I definitely don't zero

620
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: chance of it, Joe. And so the clock ticks, we'll

621
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: have some final thoughts with our panel, Jeanie Schanzano and

622
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: Lisa Camuso Miller on the next Donald Trump story, not

623
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: the one today, the one tomorrow, the tax returns. We'll

624
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 1: get into that with the panel ahead on the Fastest

625
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: Hour in Politics, Live from Washington. I'm Joe Matthew. This

626
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg. Sound on with Joe Matthew

627
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. You know, in any normal year, we'd

628
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: be talking this week about the budget, right, we'd be

629
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: getting into government funding and what's going to happen between

630
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: now on the deadline Friday, we might even refer to

631
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: a possible shutdown. But then there's this year, and I

632
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: haven't even mentioned the word omnibus yet this hour. Look

633
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: credit for that. Of course, we had the January six

634
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: committee hearing today, the final one, the referral of criminal charges.

635
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 1: We had a breaker this hour Title forty two maybe

636
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: not going to be lifted this week, and then tomorrow

637
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: we get the tax returns, remember the Trump tax returns.

638
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: I think the public has a right to know. That's

639
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: why we should pass legislation requiring candidates to do that.

640
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: That's why every other candidate has except you know who,

641
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: and who shall remain nameless here. But but um, yeah,

642
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: So I would hope that the public would have the opportunity.

643
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: Speaker Nancy Pelosi in the first of December. There once

644
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court again ruled that the House Ways and

645
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: Means Committee in fact could gain access to those documents.

646
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: So it looks like tomorrow they will be made public.

647
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: The Ways and Means Committee, it's got a closed door

648
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: session private business tomorrow in which they are going to

649
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: review the returns and some think vote to release them,

650
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: or at least some of them. See what the panel

651
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: thinks about it. Lisa Calusa Miller is with US former

652
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: Calms Director the r n C along with Genie Schanzano,

653
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor and Democratic analyst Lisa uh. We've heard

654
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: a lot of times about tax returns. It almost seems

655
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: impossible that these would be made public. What impact would

656
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: that have. Well, it's certainly not going to change the

657
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: mind of the fringe right, and it's not going to

658
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: change the mind of the left. But it is going

659
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: to potentially offer some illumination to the swing voters about

660
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: where they're potentially could be conflicts of interest, and that,

661
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: I think alone is something that could be very, very

662
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: damaging to any candidate that wants to run, especially Trump

663
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: for reelection. Conflicts of interest in terms of dealings with

664
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,439
Speaker 1: with foreign agents or what are we talking about here,

665
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: foreign agents other other corporations. The truth is is we

666
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: don't know. But I do still think that those tax

667
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: returns are relevant and important, and I don't, like I said,

668
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: I don't think it's necessarily going to change either base,

669
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: but swing voters are going to be interested to know

670
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: more about it. I think timing is incredible here, Jennie,

671
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: that day after the January six committee got a special

672
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: council underway. Now, the tax returns, You wonder if Donald

673
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: Trump is actually more upset about them, because they will

674
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: likely show he is not as wealthy as he claims

675
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, very bad we for Donald Trump. And

676
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: you know, the best thing that happened this week was

677
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: a sell out of the n f T S and

678
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: that's not saying much. And now these two days back

679
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: to back, thank you for updating that story. I'd like

680
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 1: to do that. Um. You know, they likely will vote

681
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: to your point to release them. Um. They've requested him

682
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen. After a hard fought court fight, they

683
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: finally got them. But of course at the very last

684
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: hour they likely make this vote. But the question is

685
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 1: is there any political ramifications for this? Does anybody notice

686
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 1: or even care in this environment? And is there anything

687
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: they're worth you know, investigating, like, you know what, don't

688
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: we uh? You know what? Could Trump have done that

689
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: anybody would be shocked at at this point. It's hard

690
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 1: to imagine. Maybe foreign agents, if that's even reflected in

691
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: tax records, but likely it's just that he's not worth

692
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: as much as he said, or he didn't pay taxes

693
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: as much as he should have, both of which I

694
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: don't think it's going to have much of a political

695
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 1: impact at this point. Well, he's bragged about not paying taxes, right, Lisa.

696
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: Does that surprise anybody if that's the case. No, I

697
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 1: don't think that's the case at all. I do think though,

698
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: that to Genie's point that this could be the kind

699
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: of thing that illuminates the fact that he's not necessarily

700
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: as economically uh substantial as he suggests that he is

701
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: maybe takes a little bit of the air out of

702
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 1: the sales for folks who think, well, if he's that wealthy,

703
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: then he should run the country. Yes, right. Also, I

704
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: also think that I'm with Jennie. I think it's a

705
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: it would be great if it was happening in January.

706
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: It feels like it's kind of just another bad day

707
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump this week. Well, boy, we've got a

708
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: lot to learn still. Tomorrow. You better be here tomorrow

709
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: because we're gonna be talking about this at this time,

710
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: remembering Donald Trump referred to himself as the King of

711
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:42,479
Speaker 1: Debt during the presidential campaign. Jeanie Chanzina, Lissa Camuso, Miller,

712
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: great talk and thank you. I'll meet you back here

713
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 1: tomorrow on the Fastest hour in Politics, Live every day

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Speaker 1: from Washington. It's sound Off here on Bloomberg