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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. In this episode number one. Today

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Speaker 1: the show, we're joined by Gordon Whittington of North American

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Speaker 1: Whitetail Magazine, and we're discussing the challenges of hunting October

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Speaker 1: bucks and a whole lot more. All Right, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by sit Gear.

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Speaker 1: And today in the show, we're joined by the editor

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Speaker 1: in chief of North American Whitetail Magazine, Gordon Whittington, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to be discussing a number of different interesting topics,

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Speaker 1: including some things related to the challenges of hunting during

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Speaker 1: the month of October, and a lot of stuff actually

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Speaker 1: related to the fact that Gordon has had a wide

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Speaker 1: variety of experiences hunting all over the country. So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna dive into some of these different regional specifics to

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Speaker 1: maybe some stuff about hunting in Texas, maybe some stuff

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Speaker 1: about hunting in the Southeast, how that all compares with

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Speaker 1: the Midwest, and different stuff along those lines. So it's

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Speaker 1: going to be interesting. But before we get Gordon on

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Speaker 1: the line with us, it's been a long while actually

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Speaker 1: since Dan and I have been able to catch up

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Speaker 1: and fill all of you in on how our seasons

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Speaker 1: are going so far. So Mr co host Daniel Johnson,

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Speaker 1: it's good to have you back. Yeah. Have you ever

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Speaker 1: been so busy that you forget to go to the bathroom.

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Speaker 1: It's not you go with your pants or anything, but

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Speaker 1: you're like, holy cow, I haven't p today, I haven't

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Speaker 1: poop today, I haven't had water in like a day. Like,

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Speaker 1: have you ever been that busy? You know, I've been

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Speaker 1: close to that busy, but usually that's a high priority

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Speaker 1: for me, So no matter what, I still still make

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Speaker 1: it happen. But I know you're a different type of

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Speaker 1: You're different animals. So yeah, that's right, one of those day.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's one of those things where it's

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Speaker 1: like I'm really, really, really busy, and then I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to fit bow hunting into into the mix. So we

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Speaker 1: have not talked since the beginning of hunting season, or

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Speaker 1: at least not at the beginning of your hunting season. Um,

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Speaker 1: how many times have been out? Uh, Well, I went out,

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Speaker 1: say Friday morning, Friday night, Saturday morning, Saturday night, and

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Speaker 1: then looked for a deer on Sunday morning and couldn't

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Speaker 1: find her. Now that's this past weekend, though, did you

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Speaker 1: hunt it all opening weekend? I got out Wednesday or

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Speaker 1: I got out Sunday night and that was it? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So walk us through because today is October, I think

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Speaker 1: right to October eleventh, so there's been a lever of

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Speaker 1: ten days of hunting so far from you in Iowa.

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Speaker 1: So you went on Sunday night anything studying that night.

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Speaker 1: Let's see, here's what happened. Um, I first night in

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Speaker 1: the stand, and I don't know if you know the

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Speaker 1: very I don't know how you are, but the very

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Speaker 1: first night in the stand for me is almost like

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Speaker 1: a decompression chamber where you're just trying to get back

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Speaker 1: into like the hunting mindset. You know. I did my

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Speaker 1: first running gun set up. UM. I took it slow.

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Speaker 1: I made sure I was doing everything right. Um. And

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Speaker 1: then once I was set up, I you know, tried

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Speaker 1: to clear my mind of everything else except what was

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Speaker 1: currently in front of my face. Right, So I was

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Speaker 1: just trying to decompress. And UM, I had had a

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Speaker 1: fairly good night. Um, I saw three deer um. One

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Speaker 1: of them was a three year old that I didn't

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Speaker 1: get the opportunity to pass him, but I would have

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Speaker 1: probably passed him. How how big of a three year

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Speaker 1: old are we talking from? From a headgear standpoint? I

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Speaker 1: think he's going to be sitting around like the high

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Speaker 1: one twenties, lowe one thirties. Um, he's a he's a

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Speaker 1: nine pointer. He's kind of got a weird, funky uh

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Speaker 1: left side. But uh but yeah, you know nothing, you

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Speaker 1: know nothing that made me personally jump out of my seat.

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Speaker 1: It was cool seeing the first buck of the year,

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Speaker 1: though for the triestan um and then he was it's funny.

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Speaker 1: So right now you're thinking, Okay, they're eating acorns or

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Speaker 1: they're eating I watched him clear out an entire bush

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Speaker 1: of out right now there's these there's it's a bush,

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Speaker 1: it's green, and they got these red little berries on them.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever know if you know

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Speaker 1: what those are. But yeah, you know, I I even

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Speaker 1: know the name of him. But I'm struggling right now

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Speaker 1: to think of what is it choke cherries? Maybe I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I'm not sure. I feel like but I know,

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Speaker 1: I can't think of that, right, but he he cleared

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Speaker 1: out an entire bush, I mean along along this field edge,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I'm so. I was like, man, you know

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Speaker 1: those are a field edge. Yes, don't tell anybody, don't

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Speaker 1: tell anybody field but listen, I think you got it

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Speaker 1: mixed up because I I do hunt field edges when

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Speaker 1: I'm in an observation set because I want to see.

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Speaker 1: I want to see. But but when I go in

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Speaker 1: for the you know, dive in, I'm not hunting field edges. However, this, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I I saw him clear out this entire bush.

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Speaker 1: Three dose or two dos came out, and he starts

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Speaker 1: pushing them like he's putting his nose to the ground

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Speaker 1: sniffing and you know, doing a half as type of chase,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They weren't having it. He

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Speaker 1: knew it wasn't time, so um, they just all kind

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Speaker 1: of mingled around this this little inside corner of a

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Speaker 1: field for a while and then right at last light,

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Speaker 1: another deer stepped out. It was a dark bodied, bigger body.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't see the head on it, um, but it

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Speaker 1: pushed that other buck out of the picture, and the

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Speaker 1: does kind of just started working their way away and

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Speaker 1: this other deer. By the time it kind of got

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Speaker 1: to where I could see they were, it was too dark,

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Speaker 1: So I don't know what that was. Could have been

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Speaker 1: a you know, one of the bucks, the bigger bucks

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Speaker 1: on the property, but nothing, you know, I couldn't I

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Speaker 1: couldn't tell what it was. Interesting, So pretty good first

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Speaker 1: sip though, So then what the week passes. We got

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Speaker 1: the big cold front that came through this past weekend,

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Speaker 1: so you took took Friday off, hit the stand. Uh

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Speaker 1: Friday morning saw three Larri's or dinks and uh then

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Speaker 1: one dough They all four came out at one time

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Speaker 1: and just kind of milled around this slow spot in

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Speaker 1: the field before they headed into the timber. Um. I

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Speaker 1: checked trail cameras, came back home for a little bit,

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Speaker 1: then headed down to my main farm and uh for

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Speaker 1: for Friday nights hunt and had an absolutely awesome hunt. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I was kind of doing another I was doing another

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Speaker 1: observation type of set, but knowing what works their way

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Speaker 1: through there. Um and after consulting deer lab. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you use that or not, so you know

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Speaker 1: I'm using I'm using my dear lab. I'm going up

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Speaker 1: and I'm saying, okay, last year at this time or

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Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen or two thousand thirteen, let's just check

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Speaker 1: my trail camera pictures that I've had I have uploaded

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Speaker 1: on there, and they they are, you know, saying that

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Speaker 1: I have some activity at this certain this certain fence crossing.

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Speaker 1: All right, So I'm gonna go sit there. It's not

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Speaker 1: only a good observation stand I can see everything coming in,

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Speaker 1: but statistically it's a it's a high spot because my

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Speaker 1: goal was to shoot a dough. Well, the short story

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Speaker 1: is I had to. I have five does come from

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Speaker 1: the south, three does come from the north, and they

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Speaker 1: they're walking through this bean field that has been cut

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Speaker 1: blown over by wind, and it's making a lot of noise,

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Speaker 1: almost the sound like me walking through it. So the

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Speaker 1: does to the south get scared and start blowing at

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Speaker 1: the uh dose to the north, which ends up scaring

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Speaker 1: the dose to the north, and they all kind of

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Speaker 1: run away, so they spooked each other. Now after a

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Speaker 1: while they all came out back again. Um. I ended

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Speaker 1: up passing uh a really big bodied three year old

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Speaker 1: with like a hundred non typical. He may have been

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Speaker 1: a little bigger than nine thirty, but he had like

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Speaker 1: a uh four point side and then he or yeah

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Speaker 1: before it was a five point side, real small, and

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Speaker 1: then it's like a crazy non typical double brow with

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Speaker 1: like a twisted kind of a drop type of deal.

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Speaker 1: But that's awesome. But yeah, it was pretty pretty decent buck.

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Speaker 1: And then um passed two more four corns and then uh,

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Speaker 1: probably with about thirty minutes thirty five minutes left in

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Speaker 1: the night, I start hearing what I thought was rattling

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Speaker 1: in the distance, So I put my binose up into

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Speaker 1: this uh you know, through the tree line, and I

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Speaker 1: can see two bucks sparring. They weren't fighting, but they

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Speaker 1: were tickling each other's antlers, and one of them was

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Speaker 1: I believe. I couldn't tell because there's so many leaves

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Speaker 1: still on the tree, but I believe one of them

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Speaker 1: was a buck that I have put on my hit list. Um,

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Speaker 1: kind of an eight pointer with his brows are split

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Speaker 1: like banana peals, Like they don't split and go up,

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Speaker 1: they split and both kind of peel down. So um,

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Speaker 1: that's a four year old, I believe. And other than that, then, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the does never did get close enough to

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Speaker 1: within shooting range because they got spooked. And then they

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Speaker 1: all came out further down the fence line into this cornfield.

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Speaker 1: Uh so that was over. Um. Then the wind shifted,

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Speaker 1: so I wasn't able to hunt in that area for

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Speaker 1: the following day. Um. The next morning, I went to

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Speaker 1: what I thought was going to be a historical travel

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Speaker 1: pattern travel corridor back to the um betting area in

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Speaker 1: a different area. Didn't see any deer. I heard him

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Speaker 1: across the ravine, but I couldn't see them they were

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Speaker 1: too far down. And then, um, what a Saturday night.

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Speaker 1: I went to this little back pocket where I had

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Speaker 1: we're in the past when the corns in there, they

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Speaker 1: feel very comfortable coming into this this corner of this

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Speaker 1: different corn field and they just hang out there. I

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Speaker 1: bumped one dough at two thirty or one buck to

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Speaker 1: thirty in the afternoon, walking in who was already in

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Speaker 1: this cornfield, and then I set up, he came back

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Speaker 1: out and what else? Oh? Um, so I'm sitting there, I'm,

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Speaker 1: you know, just kind of hanging out waiting for it

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Speaker 1: to get to the good, good time of the night.

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Speaker 1: And a dough and a buck. A buck's already following

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Speaker 1: this dough and it's a maybe a hundred inch buck,

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Speaker 1: maybe an eight pointer, and he's kind of following this

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Speaker 1: dough real close, and I'm I'm by this time, I'm

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Speaker 1: standing up looking down in the The dough looks at

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Speaker 1: my bottom stick on my tree, on the tree, my

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Speaker 1: bottom bottom lone wolf stick follows every stick up and

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Speaker 1: looks at me and blows and runs into the timber.

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Speaker 1: She didn't know what I was, so she blew and

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Speaker 1: she I'm talking thirty minutes of blowing, and by this

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Speaker 1: time I'm just like, oh my god, do I get

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Speaker 1: down right? Well? She she gets close again, she stopped blowing,

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Speaker 1: She gets close, she blows and blows and blows again,

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Speaker 1: and then she goes back into the timber. And then finally,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why, why dear do this? If they're

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Speaker 1: afraid of something, but they get curious because they don't

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Speaker 1: officially know what it is, because she never had my scent.

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Speaker 1: She steps out in the field and I draw back

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Speaker 1: and I ranged the spot where she stepped out at.

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Speaker 1: I had a gap between the field edge and a

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Speaker 1: tree limb right, and she came out fairly fast, and

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Speaker 1: I ranged the spot and the spot was thirty thirty

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Speaker 1: five yards and she stepped out a little bit further

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Speaker 1: than that. So I put my forty yard pin on

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Speaker 1: her and I set the you know, I you know, settled,

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Speaker 1: let the arrow fly, and I hit her. But I

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Speaker 1: couldn't see really where because she was right in line

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Speaker 1: with a corn row. So then she she jumps out.

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Speaker 1: She goes into the cornfield and she stands there for

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty minutes, and she every step she took, it

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Speaker 1: looked like she was getting ready to fall over. So

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Speaker 1: I said to myself, you know, I think I hit guts.

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Speaker 1: I think I hit a little bit low and a

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Speaker 1: little bit back, but there's a chance I got liver,

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Speaker 1: all right. So I said, okay, I gotta treat this

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Speaker 1: like any deer if it was a big buck, what

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Speaker 1: would I do? Back out? We give it time. So

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Speaker 1: I went home. The next morning, I come back with

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Speaker 1: my stepdad and we started with where she was standing, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean it, if she took a step, she was

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Speaker 1: almost getting ready to fall over. And we go there.

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Speaker 1: We find a little bit of blood and I'm talking

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Speaker 1: maybe ten fiftt of blood and nothing, and we we

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Speaker 1: ended up gritting probably close to forty acres of cornfield

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Speaker 1: and timber, and I ended up not being able to

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Speaker 1: find her and it it basically ruined my weekend. Yeah, jeez,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say it sounds like a great weekend

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Speaker 1: and then you really ended on a downer. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: you know, it's one of those things where it was

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Speaker 1: a forty yard shot in an open corn field. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I've I felt confident enough to take

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Speaker 1: the shot and it didn't work out. I was off. Um,

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Speaker 1: it sucks that I ended up wounding a deer and taking,

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Speaker 1: you know, a shot. You know, some people out there

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Speaker 1: probably would say, hey, you don't you shouldn't be able

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Speaker 1: to you shouldn't take a shot like that. Well I

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Speaker 1: look at it this way. If that buck was two,

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Speaker 1: I would have taken the shot, just like I would

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Speaker 1: take the shot on the dough, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like you have to just because of it's a giant

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Speaker 1: buck doesn't mean you should change your you know, change

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Speaker 1: your your range. Right. You have to be and and

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Speaker 1: ethically I felt that I was good at forty yards

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Speaker 1: and I pulled off a shot that was not as

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Speaker 1: good as I hoped it to be. And unfortunately, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know who knows if this uh, this dough is

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Speaker 1: a lib or not. And it really it really sucks. Sorry, man,

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Speaker 1: I know when we've talked about this type of thing

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Speaker 1: happens and it's uh, it's the the worst part of

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Speaker 1: hunting is when something that goes wrong and we do

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Speaker 1: everything we can possibly do to have you know, as

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Speaker 1: quick an ethical kill as possible, but as as you

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Speaker 1: and I both know it, no matter what you no

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Speaker 1: matter how hard you try sometimes or how much of practice,

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Speaker 1: sometimes just stuff happens. Well, And it's crazy, right because

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Speaker 1: you can practice on a target all day long, you

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Speaker 1: can practice from a tree stand at a target. But

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Speaker 1: the hunting not to make excuses for a poor shot.

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Speaker 1: But you don't practice for a deer that you have

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Speaker 1: to stop, you don't have to have. You don't practice

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Speaker 1: for a deer that's already been spooked. You don't practice

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Speaker 1: on um, you know, all these different scenarios because in

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Speaker 1: the timber, some of these scenarios are almost un unpracticable,

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Speaker 1: if that makes sense. So you know, and don't I'm

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Speaker 1: the last guy to make excuses. I feel bad that

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Speaker 1: I end up winning this deer um, So you know,

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Speaker 1: I gotta keep doing what I do, and that's practiced

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Speaker 1: in my off time. So yeah, keep on keeping on. Yep. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear about how that first weekend went.

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Speaker 1: I I now have forty five seconds to give you

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Speaker 1: an update on how my last eleven days run hunting. Dude,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I just you should have said shut up.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you the really, really quick, cliff notes version

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Speaker 1: of what's going on. I just want to know if

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Speaker 1: you had any encounters with holy Field. I've hunted holy

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Speaker 1: Field four times. I've yet to see him. I saw

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Speaker 1: one other potential shooter at one of my other stand

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Speaker 1: locations while I was hunting one spot. I saw him

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Speaker 1: like four hund yards away. And then I hunted a

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Speaker 1: couple of new properties in between during the week and

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Speaker 1: I saw a potential shooter on one of them, didn't

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Speaker 1: get a shot. That's basically my season so far. So

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Speaker 1: do you think you know where he's stepping out? Holy Field? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I don't know what holy Fields doing anymore. I saw

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Speaker 1: him the last night. I don't have any trout, although

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Speaker 1: I've I've no I've got two cameras i've checked since

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Speaker 1: opening night. He's not on them. The one camera that's

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Speaker 1: in the middle of his core area. I have not

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Speaker 1: checked since opening night, so I'm going to do that

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Speaker 1: in the next day or two. Drive the fore wheler

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Speaker 1: out there. Check that um. But last time I saw

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Speaker 1: him was the night before the season, and since then,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I went and hunted four different times.

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Speaker 1: I was obsessively care the first three times I hunted

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Speaker 1: in that little core area, once in the ground blind

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Speaker 1: where I had to put waiters on and walked up

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Speaker 1: a stream for like a hundred fifty yards to get

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Speaker 1: into this little spot. Then I crawled on all hands

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Speaker 1: and knees to get into the back of this ground

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Speaker 1: blind so that no possible way anything could hear me,

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Speaker 1: see me, smell me, etcetera. I didn't see anything that night.

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Speaker 1: Then the next day the next two hunts, I hunted

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Speaker 1: a tree stand in that area, and I took like

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Speaker 1: this crazy roundabout route that I've never done before. But

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Speaker 1: I'm just like trying to take every possible, every possible

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Speaker 1: thing I can do to reduce the chances of this

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Speaker 1: buck seeing me or hearing me when I sneak in.

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Speaker 1: If he was betted up there in the front there

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Speaker 1: and still didn't see him, I mean, everything was pretty

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Speaker 1: darn great. I didn't spook any deer and never at

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Speaker 1: least that I heard or saw. I never spooked any

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Speaker 1: deer um, but just he was he wasn't moving, So

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Speaker 1: there could be a million different reasons why. Maybe he

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Speaker 1: still did hear me or saw me or smell me.

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Speaker 1: Maybe other neighboring property hunters spooked him and kind of

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Speaker 1: caused him to go nocturnal. But it's kind of how

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Speaker 1: it is here, at least where I'm hunting in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: It's like you've got the first day or two maybe,

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Speaker 1: and then these bucks just on a dime switch it

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Speaker 1: up because there's literally there's probably twenty guy is within

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Speaker 1: yards probably of where I'm hunting, maybe last I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of maybe not twenty, but a lot,

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Speaker 1: a lot a lot of hunters, and that changes things.

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Speaker 1: So have you now switched your attention over to this

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Speaker 1: other shooter that you show that you saw. I still

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Speaker 1: focusing on Holy Field. I'm basically pulling out there, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna hunt again until either I get daylight

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Speaker 1: trail camera pictures or laid October cold front happens. Otherwise

335
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Speaker 1: I'm just laying off this property completely now. Um. Now

336
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Speaker 1: that said, if I get to that time period and

337
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Speaker 1: it starts getting good and I go in to hunt,

338
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Speaker 1: and if I see this other buck and I actually

339
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,120
Speaker 1: saw another buck from the road one night I didn't hunt,

340
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Speaker 1: I still was able to scout just at last light,

341
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Speaker 1: and I saw a different buck that was super crazy wide.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen a buck this wide and this property before.

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Speaker 1: He might be a four year old or three year old,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Um. So if one of those two

345
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Speaker 1: other bucks shows up and presents me a great shot opportunity,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a decision to make. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what I would do right now, because I'd love to

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Speaker 1: kill holy Field. But at the same time, in Michigan,

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Speaker 1: if you get your shot at a three year old

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Speaker 1: or four year old buck, um, and if it's you know,

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Speaker 1: one twenty or something like that, I mean, that's a

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Speaker 1: really really really rare dear here. And if you get

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Speaker 1: one opportunity year, you're in the top five percent. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I can pass up that opportunity. Um.

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Speaker 1: If I did end up shooting one of those bucks,

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Speaker 1: then I would lay off the property the rest of

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Speaker 1: the year, and I would let holy Field hopefully just

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Speaker 1: create a sanctuary again and hopefully hunt him again at five.

359
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Speaker 1: So maybe that will happen, or maybe I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: focus on holy Field. That's my number one best option.

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Speaker 1: I hope that's what happens, but I'm just gonna see

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Speaker 1: how plays out. I guess how many how many trail

363
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Speaker 1: cameras do you have right now surrounding where you think

364
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Speaker 1: holy Field lives? I have three on that property right now.

365
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Speaker 1: I'm going to add a fourth here in the next

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Speaker 1: day or two when I go out. I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: out and take the four wheeler and just check these cameras,

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Speaker 1: um that I haven't been able to get to because

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Speaker 1: I've been so careful not to go in there. But now,

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Speaker 1: since I'm not gonna hunt it for like another three weeks,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna take the four whiller and drive up to

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Speaker 1: these edges where I can just easily change out the

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Speaker 1: cards and batteries on these cameras and just get them

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Speaker 1: ready to be, you know, hopefully collecting some intel from

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Speaker 1: me all these next three weeks, and then um, you know,

376
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Speaker 1: once we get to that late October time period, then

377
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try again all right man, well, good luck,

378
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: thank you sir. So I know, uh, we need to

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Speaker 1: we need to pause here a second before we get

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Speaker 1: gored on the line and take a break to thank

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Speaker 1: our partners at Sick of Gear, and then we will

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Speaker 1: start talking with Gordon Whittington. So as we do every week,

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Speaker 1: we have a sick story today, and we're joined again

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Speaker 1: by Sick of Gear employee Brad Christian, who sharing me

385
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: a pretty awesome story of an unexpected hunting role reversal

386
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Speaker 1: between him and his wife. Now set the stage quickly.

387
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: Brad's away from home and he gets this text from

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Speaker 1: his wife asking he'll come back home and watch the

389
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Speaker 1: kids for the night because she wanted to go hunting. Now,

390
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Speaker 1: Brad is all about his wife getting on in the woods,

391
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Speaker 1: but he knew this could be a little bit tricky

392
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Speaker 1: as she had a flight to catch at five am

393
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Speaker 1: the next morning. I said, absolutely, draw home, you know,

394
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 1: jam back, and kind of past each other in the driveway.

395
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 1: I five, you know, and wished her luck, and you

396
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: know she makes up the tree and and you know,

397
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Speaker 1: I'm getting the play by play if you know sawbird,

398
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, here's the here's the weather, you know, here's

399
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 1: the wind. Here's you know, the selfie you know in

400
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: the SI caface mask, you know that that kind of thing,

401
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: and and uh, you know, she's she's a planner, I think,

402
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, like like a lot of us. She's texting

403
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,719
Speaker 1: me like, hey, what if I you know, what if

404
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,439
Speaker 1: I kill a buck? You know what what you know

405
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 1: in terms of processing and and everything, And I'm thinking, goodness,

406
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 1: like probably statistically right, just you know, not trying to

407
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: be Debbie down a room. Probably not something you know,

408
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not not real worried about it, you know.

409
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: And she's like, I gotta leave. I mean my fight

410
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: leaves at five am, so I gotta be gone. And

411
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,400
Speaker 1: I'm just like, hey, but that would be an awesome

412
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 1: problem to have. Let's just well we'll cross that bridge,

413
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 1: you know when we get there. Um so I I

414
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 1: you know, kind of forget about it. And then you know,

415
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: the saft fox and then you know, a little bit later,

416
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 1: out of buck and I'm like what text her back.

417
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: She goes and I'm sorry, so sorry, my battery is dying.

418
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh my gosh, of course your battery

419
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 1: is dying, because your batteries always dying and she's like, sorry,

420
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: this is gonna be it. I'm like, did you hit

421
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: him good? She's because, yeah, I think so. But I'm

422
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: my girlfriend. You she she saw the butt to go by,

423
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: so I'm questioning and my battery seriously gonna die. And

424
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 1: then she's gone, and I'm like, awesome. Great. She's like,

425
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,719
Speaker 1: I don't know, a couple of hours away, you know, leaving,

426
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: you know, in you know, at three in the morning.

427
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 1: I got the kids, and I'm just like, well, that's that.

428
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: So I try to stay up for I was exhausted,

429
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: and eventually I I passed out on the couch and

430
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 1: just you know, that was it. And I wake up

431
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: in the morning and I'm like, oh my goodness, what happened?

432
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: You know, I'm still okay. I'm like running around. She's gone.

433
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: She's not in our bed. I look out my trucks

434
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 1: in the driveway, and so i'd be line it out

435
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: there and I dropped the tailgate down and there's this

436
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: buck laying in the bed of my truck. With it,

437
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: there's a piece of computer paper that's like pierced by

438
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: the G two. It's just hanging there that says thanks

439
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: Mr Mom, I'll text you my processing and instruction. That's awesome,

440
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,959
Speaker 1: pretty awesome. Indeed, that was a sickest story. And if

441
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: you'd like to learn more about Sick of Gears technical

442
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: hunting apparel, you can visit sick of gear dot com.

443
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 1: And now let's get back to the show and give

444
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 1: Gordon a call. All right, with us on the line

445
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: now is Gordon Whittington. Welcome the show. Gordon, glad to

446
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: be here, guys. Yeah, we appreciate you taking the time,

447
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: especially you know during hunting season. I always feel bad

448
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: trying to get people to come on the show during

449
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: hunting season in an afternoon when I know a lot

450
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: of people are thinking about hunting at least, So appreciate

451
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: you doing that, Gordon. And I guess before we dive

452
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: into talking about that topic hunting right now, I guess

453
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 1: it would be I think helpful for all of us

454
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: to hear a little bit about who you are, some

455
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: of your background. You know, we I briefly introduced you

456
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the show. Folks, I'm sure familiar

457
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: with what you've done North American white Tail, But I

458
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: guess how did you get to this point? Well, that's

459
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: an interesting question. I grew up on a cattle ranch

460
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: in central Texas. UM killed my first deer when I

461
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: was seven. That was nineteen sixty three. I was sitting

462
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: on my grandfather's knee shooting an open side at thirty

463
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: to twenty Model ninety two Winchester car being UM there

464
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: was only a few hundred serial numbers apart from the

465
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: one John Wayne used in True Grit. So I guess

466
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: that's my I guess that's my earliest claim to fame.

467
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: If there was such a thing. There was the dough.

468
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: And I've told I've told many people. I say, you know, look,

469
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 1: I shot that dough through the heart and at the

470
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: same moment, deer hunting shot meat through the heart. Because

471
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: I absolutely never after that I could think of anything

472
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: cooler than deer hunting. And and I'd grown up. I'd

473
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: grown up in a ranch, like I say, and and

474
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: and my parents were in the meat processing business. So

475
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: they not only was in the cattle business, but every

476
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: fall they would take in eight hundred to a thousand

477
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: deer process And this is GOLLI fifty years ago now.

478
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: And and so I grew up around that and hunters

479
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: bringing in deer and just being around all that, and

480
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: and my talents such as it was, I knew was

481
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: never going to be an engineering or mathematics or anything

482
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: like that. And I wasn't going to play in the

483
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: NBA a little old me, so I kind of figured,

484
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, I need to figure out something that I

485
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: can do with language, and my love was to deal

486
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: with what was was to write and dealing with images

487
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: and just trying to convey and communicate information. And it

488
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: turned out that deer hunting was a perfect entree into

489
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: that for me, As it turned out to be at

490
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: a time when the white tail population was starting to grow,

491
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: we were starting to get more specialized media, and I

492
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 1: came aboard North American whitetail just as that wave was

493
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: starting to swell in the early eighties, and I put

494
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: my surfboard up on top of it, and I've been

495
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: writing it ever since. But I'm I know, I'm getting

496
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: close to shore now because I'm sixty years old, but

497
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: I'm still having a good time. That's awesome. So given

498
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: you have a unique perspective, I think compared to a

499
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: lot of us, and that you got to observe this

500
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: rise in this in this wave of deer hunting media

501
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: and excitement and the I don't know, this big buck

502
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: hysteria of sorts maybe that we're living and now I'm

503
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: kind of curious, what are your thoughts and where things

504
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: have gone from that time that North American White til

505
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: first started to where we are now today. Well, if

506
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: you look back in the early eighties, North American white

507
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: Tail his very first issue came out in the fall

508
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: of nine two, so we've we've been at it a

509
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: little over three decades now. And I came aboard and

510
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: I wrote two articles for the third issue of the

511
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: magazine that was an early eighty three and I was

512
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: still living in Texas at the time, and the magazine

513
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: was founded here in the Atlanta area, and in summer

514
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: of eighty four, I moved over here to actually work

515
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: on the magazine, and I've been here ever since. So

516
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: if I have kind of been here through you know,

517
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: the long haul of it, if you will. Certainly there

518
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: were a lot of people very interested in white tail

519
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: deer long before I was born, and certainly the white

520
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: tail has been important in American hunting, in North American

521
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: hunting for for you know, centuries now. But but the

522
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: restoration that was really just you know, coming on strong

523
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: in the sixties and seventies, and obviously eighties and nineties

524
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: all the way up into early two thousand's across much

525
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: of North America, particularly the Midwest and in some parts

526
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: of the Northeast. I think we saw that there was

527
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: just this latent interest in big game hunting that otherwise

528
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: was not available for people, and so it was such

529
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: a rush for them to get to go out and

530
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: hunt something beside squirrels and rabbits you know, we're ducks,

531
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: and really go out and feel like there were big

532
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: game hunting in part of the country where that had

533
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: been absent for a while. And so I think that

534
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: was part of the mystique and the allura that that

535
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: really got people chummed up and interested in not just

536
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: shooting deer, but as they as they started to find

537
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: doubt that there were giant deer at least had existed

538
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: in the past, whether they still did or not, people

539
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: were fascinating. Body's big here? And who doesn't want to

540
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: shoot a big deer after you know they exist? I mean,

541
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: you you know that old six pointer, you know that

542
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,239
Speaker 1: hangs out behind the farm pond. It looks pretty good

543
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: to you until you've been to the Deer show and

544
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 1: seeing the hole in the hornbuck hanging there, and all

545
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: of a sudden you realized, there's a different world out

546
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: there than I live in, and yet it's here in

547
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: North America, and regular people sometimes with the guys shooting

548
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: these mega giant deer. Well, I think that that dream

549
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: and fantasy of being one of those guys and and

550
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: having a chance to really kind of live out that fantasy.

551
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: I think that was a big part of the allure

552
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: of of the megabuck, if you will. Back in the

553
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties in particular, some people feel like, now, well,

554
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 1: you know, we've seen so many giant deer. There's so

555
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: many farm deer now, there's so many videos, there's so

556
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: many sheds, there's so many everything out there, collections and stores,

557
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: replica as you name it. That there is a certain

558
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: amount of what I think Dr Dr Crowe has often

559
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: references antler fatigue. We don't have any less interest in

560
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: shooting these mega giant deer. We're still excited about the

561
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: idea of it. But seeing these giants deer that are

562
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: that thirty years ago, we're totally unknown and now somewhat

563
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: somewhat more common, whether through social media, whether through just

564
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 1: the general blitz of media in general, including us here

565
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: at North American whitetail. I do think that's taken some

566
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: of the mystique, if you will, off the off the

567
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: world class buck. But nonetheless, hunting those deer is still

568
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: as magical as it ever was, and maybe more so. Yeah,

569
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: what is it about? What is it about a giant

570
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: buck that has guys like us daydreaming all year around?

571
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: You know? What's what's? What do you think that draw is? Well,

572
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: you have to there are several things I believe, I mean,

573
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: as impressive as a giant pronghorn antelope or a mountain goat.

574
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: Is they all pretty much look like the same animals.

575
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: Some are a little bit bigger than others, but white tails,

576
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: even a hundred and twenty class nine pointer, they don't

577
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: all look alike. They don't all Uh, they aren't all

578
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: taken by the same method, in the same way and

579
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: exactly the same kind of habitat. There's all sorts of

580
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: different situations. Uh, you know, the land holdings. Sometimes they're small.

581
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: We understand that the odds are against us getting a

582
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,479
Speaker 1: shot at the monster versus making the guy across the

583
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: fence or two farms over, so we've got that. We

584
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: felt like there's a massive challenge to that number one

585
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: because we know it. You just don't shoot these big

586
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: deer every day. Uh and and sometimes you go with

587
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: fifty years and you never get a chance at a

588
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty deer. And yet you could be the

589
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 1: best hunter in your county, but you just don't have

590
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: big deer to hunt. And so I think knowing how

591
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: rare it is, and how special these animals are and

592
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: how difficult they are to hunt, I think all of

593
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: that contributes to this fantasy that man, will I ever

594
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: be the guy that shoots a deer like that? Or

595
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: can I make it happen if a deer like that

596
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: comes by me? Can I keep it together? Can I

597
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: get the job done? I think I think there's so much,

598
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: if you will, just an aura about these mega giant

599
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: deer that it's in some ways they're intimidating. And in fact,

600
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: I've heard the writers say one time, you know, this

601
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: is the only animal that can intimidate you without even

602
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: knowing that you're in its presence, because he can just

603
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: walk by your spand and you fall apart, and he

604
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: just walked by blissfully not even know when you were

605
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: in a tree trying to kill him. If you turn

606
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: to Jolo and he never was even threatened by your presence.

607
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: Yet that's why you were there, was to kill that deer.

608
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: And so when you realize that, that's the effect they

609
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: have on us. And sometimes the more you yearn for

610
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: that opportunity, the harder it is to make it happen

611
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: because you put so much pressure on yourself and sometimes

612
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: a deer just blissfully goes on its way and doesn't

613
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: even know that it was close to die thing, and

614
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: yet you you almost sell out the treaty. So you know,

615
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how many big game animals can do that,

616
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: but a white tailed deer can do that. Do you

617
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: still do you still feel that, Gordon, You've You've killed

618
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: a lot of deer in your day. Do you still

619
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: fall apart and turn to jellow one when some of

620
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: these big boys roll through. Well, you know, to be

621
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: honest with you, you know, I I can keep it

622
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: together pretty well myself, And I think one of the

623
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: reasons is that because I'm so often now basically there

624
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: with a cameraman and we're trying to shoot TV footage

625
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: and while internally, of course you're a wreck sometime because

626
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: it's the tense situation, a lot of anticipation and adrenaline,

627
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: You're you're having to focus pretty hard to make sure

628
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: you do your part because you are there to shoot

629
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: TV footage. At the same time, at its basic level,

630
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: this is still hunting, and if you don't have any emotion,

631
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 1: you really do need to look for something else to do,

632
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: because it's too much time and trouble and effort and

633
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: money to go hunt big deer if you don't get

634
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: anything out of it in terms of a thrill or

635
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: an elevated pulse rate, I mean, otherwise, why even bothered? Yeah,

636
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: that the day that I don't get that elevated pulse rate,

637
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: it will be the day that probably I, like you said,

638
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: consider some other hobbies or easier ways of acquiring my

639
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: food maybe, because that definitely is an important part of it,

640
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: and it never it has yet to get old for me,

641
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,799
Speaker 1: Thank goodness. Um I guess so speaking of that, right, uh,

642
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: For the fifteen minutes actually before you came onto the

643
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: show with us, me and Dan, we're just talking about

644
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: our October hunting woes. All things have gone wrong for us,

645
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,840
Speaker 1: and how we have not killed a deer yet. Um.

646
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what I wanted to start our

647
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: conversation with Gordon was just about some of the challenges

648
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: of hunting this time of year we're entering, and we've

649
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: all heard a thousand times, we're entering this period of

650
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: the season that many people referred to as the October

651
00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: lull Um. I guess maybe what do you think about that, Gordon?

652
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: Is there such a thing Do you believe that the

653
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: October law is? Is that factor fiction? Well, I think

654
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: there is no question that at various times of the fall,

655
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: and really year round obviously, but during the time of

656
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: year when hunting is legal, we all know there are

657
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: times a year when your probability of seeing a mature

658
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: buck on his feet in legal shooting light are better

659
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: than others. It depends on habitat, weather, moon phase, but

660
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: mostly hunting pressure, to some extent, habitat type. There's all

661
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: these different factors involved, deer densities, so many things. But

662
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: I would say that in general, if you if you

663
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: talk to the guys who have let's say, like in

664
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: Michigan October one bowl opener of Illinois, that way, you know,

665
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: right around October one, at least you've got you know,

666
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: the deer have been out of velvet for three weeks

667
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: to a month. The bucks are you know, of course,

668
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: somewhat reclusive and solitary. Really when they come out of velvet,

669
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 1: they come out of their bachelor groups, they really go

670
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: into a short travel pattern. They don't move much in daylight,

671
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: even if they're not spook or being hunted, they're not

672
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 1: moving a long way to food. And you know, maybe

673
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: out in the prairie of Wyoming you've got deer walking

674
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: two miles from alfalfa fielding back, you know, even in

675
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: early season. But for the most part, in most habitats,

676
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: you have deer on a very short travel pattern. And

677
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: that's you know, compounded by the fact that then suddenly

678
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: we get the acorns and the other fall masts that

679
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 1: starts to come into play. And that's a that's mostly

680
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: back in the woods, and we're trying to kill these

681
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: deer on the edges because we don't want to penetrate

682
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: their sanctuaries, and yet their sanctuaries might literally have acorns

683
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: dropping into their bedding areas as those deer lying there

684
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: waiting for dark, well that deer's got very little incentive

685
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: unless he's really thirsty. He's got very little incentive to

686
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: get up and move much in daylight. And I think

687
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: if you look at Reggio telemetry and you look at

688
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: all the different GPS studies that have been done on

689
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: while deer, you'll see that mature bucks just have a

690
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: very short travel pattern at this time of year. So

691
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 1: there aren't if you have the terminus, let's say, is

692
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,479
Speaker 1: a food plot, and it may be the best food

693
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: plot in the county, and you may have the best

694
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: bedding area two hundred yards away from there in a

695
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: swap or something. If that buck is in that swamp

696
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: and he's going to that food plot at night, he's

697
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: got very little ground to cover to get there, and

698
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: he can get on his feet right at dark, you know,

699
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: stretch a little bit, rub his rack a couple of times,

700
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: and then prance right out of the food plot, and

701
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 1: he's already too late for you to kill him. Now,

702
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: that's just the fact of life that, you know, hunting

703
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: pressure didn't necessarily cause that. It might have accentuated that pattern,

704
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: but it didn't really cause it. He's just got no

705
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 1: incentive to get there early. He's also got no incentive

706
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 1: to stay there after daylight in the morning. By the

707
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 1: time you got daylight coming over a food plot, he's

708
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: normally back in a place where you can't get him killed.

709
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: So these are just realities, and he's not very responsive

710
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: to rattling or calling. Generally speaking, you don't want to

711
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 1: do a deer drive. There's all sorts of things that

712
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: you're not going to do an early season that otherwise

713
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: might compensate for that lack of mobility on his partners,

714
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: a lack of a daytime pattern. You put all that together,

715
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: and that's a really long winded way of saying, Uh,

716
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: they're hard to kill now, but but we understand why

717
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: they're hard to kill. They're just not on their feet

718
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: much in daylight. And and I don't know what you

719
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: can ultimately do to change that pattern very much. Trail

720
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 1: cameras clearly have made it easier for us to pinpoint

721
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: those locations where they're spending time, but you have to

722
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: be very careful not to blow the deer out either

723
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: checking cameras or going in to hunt that spot. And

724
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: a lot of guys just get so impatient, and early

725
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: season there's like, oh, man falls finally here, I've been

726
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: waiting all all year to get in the tree. I'm going, well,

727
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: when is not quite right, I'm going anywhere, you know,

728
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: I gotta go. It's Saturday. I'm going, Well, you can

729
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: go and blow him out and not see him again

730
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 1: for three months and have your neighbor killing three weeks later.

731
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: And that's a lot of times. It's just the reality

732
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: of what happens is that we just don't have the

733
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: discipline to wait for better conditions. So would you typically

734
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: recommend Let's say we've got someone who's hunting in that

735
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: type of scenario you just listed there where he's not

736
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: getting daily trout camera pictures of a buck. He's not

737
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: seeing daily activity from a buck yet because of that situation, right,

738
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 1: he's this buck doesn't need to travel very far. Maybe

739
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: he hasn't been overly pressured yet, but he just doesn't

740
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 1: have that incentive to move during daily So that's our scenario.

741
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: Would you tell this person, I guess, would you typically

742
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: think this type of person should wait until the run

743
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 1: or are there some things that they should do now

744
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: to try to still make it happen. I would I

745
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: would go to a separate area and try to get

746
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 1: my dough shot. That's the first thing I would focus

747
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: on if I can't get him shot in the in

748
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: the setup that I feel is most likely to produce

749
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: an opportunity in the first time or two or three

750
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 1: that I sit there during the earliest days of season

751
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: and catch him unaware and possibly get him shot before

752
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 1: he knows the season it's even open. If I can't

753
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 1: do that, I'm gonna pull out. I'm gonna go somewhere else.

754
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to get my doze shot, or to

755
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: be honest with you, for many of us, it's I'm

756
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 1: gonna try to get all my jobs done around the

757
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: house so that when prime time gets here, I can

758
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: spend more time in the woods. And I do think

759
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: that's some of It's a function of time allocation. We

760
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: all have limited time, even those of us who hunt

761
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: quote for a living. We all still have other things

762
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 1: in our life we have to do. And the worst

763
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: thing in the world is to put all those off.

764
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: Hunt hard in October, mess up your spot didn't come

765
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: to sifth and November, and realize you're behind on your

766
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: honey dues, and then have to spend three days in

767
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: prime time catching up so you can then go and

768
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 1: chase deer again. I mean, I think sometimes we just

769
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: don't have a really good game plan. And because of that.

770
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: That's not to say people don't kill big ones in

771
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: October or even mad October. They certainly do. I mean,

772
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: there's been some big ones kill the last couple of

773
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: weeks all over North America. But the number of people

774
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: hunting relative the number of big deer opportunities is with

775
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: a pretty skewed ratio. Yeah, definitely, I mean, I think

776
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: it's hard to argue with that. It's definitely possible, but

777
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,720
Speaker 1: at the same time as challenging, at least from everything

778
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: I've ever learned and from all the different people we've

779
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: talked to on this podcast, I think, you know, one

780
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: of the big things that comes down to is, you know,

781
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: there's certain types of conditions, or certain little weak spots

782
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: in a big box armor of sorts that you can

783
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 1: take advantage of if you have that perfect scenario for it.

784
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: But eight times out of ten, you know, either you

785
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: don't have that scenario or you don't have all the

786
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: intel that you need to make a smart move or

787
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. Eight times out of ten, usually

788
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 1: the smarter bet is to wait until those right conditions,

789
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 1: because to your point, when you start pushing in there

790
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: and doing things before the times, right before the scenario

791
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: is right, you're just gonna muck things up before you

792
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: ever even had a chance. And then when you might

793
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: have had that better chance, maybe in late October or November,

794
00:41:58,200 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: whatever it is, or when the cold front comes through,

795
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: you know, now you can't take advantage of that because

796
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: you've already educated that buck. And that's a tough lesson

797
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: to learn. Yeah, it's difficult, and and I could never

798
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 1: blame anybody for saying, Look, I just flat enjoy being

799
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: in the deer woods, and even if it messes up

800
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 1: my chances of killing the big one, I want to go. Well,

801
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: how on earth could you tell a guy that you

802
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 1: shouldn't go. I mean, I you know a deer. Deer

803
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: hunting is supposed to be to be fun, and if

804
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: that's fun to him and he's legal and safe and ethical,

805
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: then good for him. I mean, I hope he shoots one,

806
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: but if he doesn't shoot one, I at least know

807
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: that he was out there, you know, exercising his right

808
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: and the privilege to go hunting and be part of

809
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: the American hunting force that we're also proud of. So

810
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: I don't really and it's hard for me to bash

811
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: that guy and say, oh, you're crazy or you're not

812
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: being smart. I mean, I would like for him to

813
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: see the payoff for doing things a little different way.

814
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,439
Speaker 1: But I'm never going to bash him because he made

815
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: a quote poor decision and educated the buck that he

816
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 1: might have otherwise shot. I mean, that's that's his call,

817
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: not mine. Yeah. Now, given your position, you know, with

818
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: North American Whitetail magazine, you get to hear a live

819
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: different perspectives from other writers and hunters who do sometimes

820
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,720
Speaker 1: push a little bit more in October and have success.

821
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: Are there any I don't know any standout tactics that

822
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: you have seen from some of these other guys who

823
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: do like to focus on October that either intrigue you

824
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: the most or that you think have the most merit. Well,

825
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: I think if you, I thank you, You've got control

826
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 1: of your land and have attack to where you can

827
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: have number one, a very relaxed deer herd, you know,

828
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: and and and go out of your way to minimize

829
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 1: the pressure on those deers so that you can wait

830
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: for that little cool front. That really gets the buck

831
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: a little bit more active, you know, a little earlier

832
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: in the evening, coming out to the plot, and you've

833
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: got a plot set up so that you've got places

834
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: between bedding and feeding where you can get him shot.

835
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 1: I do feel like if you can, if you can

836
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,919
Speaker 1: almost landscape your proper or your hunting areas that way,

837
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: or or put the scouting in to find those situations,

838
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: that clearly that's going to give you an advantage over

839
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: the guy who's just randomly going to go say, well,

840
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: there's acorns falling here and there's some deer pellets, I

841
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: think i'll set here. Um, yeah, he might kill a

842
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: many world record, but the chances are better for the

843
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: guy who's actually got a plan, as we all know.

844
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 1: So so I look at it and say, yeah, if

845
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: you can find that you know, a place where deer

846
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: or pushed a little bit more into a travel pattern

847
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: because the topography changing crops possibly, Um, you know you've

848
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 1: got isolated food sources as opposed to widespread food sources.

849
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: If you can find those little honeyholes, if you will

850
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: and really be super careful with the wind, be be

851
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: very disciplined about how you go in there. And get

852
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: out of them and and hunt them lightly, but give

853
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: yourself a chance on the periphery of that dear's travel

854
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: pattern to get a crack at him if he makes

855
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 1: a little little bit of a slip up one afternoon

856
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,959
Speaker 1: or one morning. But you know, day and day out,

857
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: you're just going to have to be very disciplined and

858
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: how you approach it, because again it's it only takes

859
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: one slip up on our part and the buck is

860
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: totally educated to at least that particular hunting set up.

861
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: Now he might continue to run widely across the area

862
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: and get shot by somebody else. But but his knowledge

863
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: of that one particular ambush site that you've set up,

864
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: we want to minimize that. And we and you know,

865
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, because we've hunted it sloppily. You know,

866
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: we we went in there wrong wind, or we threw

867
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: trash on the ground, or we didn't you know, we didn't.

868
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: We went in bad conditions, and we basically left a

869
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 1: lot of of of of tell tale of knowledge for

870
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: him to pick up by our presence. Even if he

871
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: didn't come by the stand when we were in it,

872
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: he still knows we were there and what we got

873
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: to just continue to go back to is minimizing the

874
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 1: possibility of that. But I do think that the guys

875
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: they are most successful most often or really just crowding

876
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: in as far as they dare on the downwind side

877
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: of a travel pattern that they have reason to know

878
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: is they're either because of sidings, you know, sign or

879
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: more often anymore, it's just simply trail camera images that

880
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 1: tell them that they're on the right pattern. You still

881
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: have to be careful about how you hunt it. Yeah,

882
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: And speaking of that whole topic of you know, just

883
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: being particularly careful about everything related hunting pressure. UM. You

884
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: might remember I actually wrote an article for North American

885
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: Whitetail a few years ago about how I personally have

886
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: decided to minimize almost completely the number of mornings that

887
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: I hunt during early to mid October UM. And it's

888
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: a long running discussion that me and Dan here have

889
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: with between ourselves and other guests and stuff. And I

890
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: guess I'm just curious about your take on that. What's

891
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: your perspective on morning hunts in early to mid October. Well,

892
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: I have shot some some books in the morning in

893
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: let's say, the third week of October somewhere, and there where,

894
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: of course, but later you get in October the generally

895
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: speaking to better things were going to get. Um. I

896
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: have had a little bit of luck on some bucks,

897
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: some early bucks starting to cruise small isolated food plots

898
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: and sometimes even coming into a to a buck decoy,

899
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: and I've had I've had pretty good luck doing that.

900
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: I do feel like that kind of minimizes my disturbance

901
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: of any real security cover because I'm out there on

902
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: the edge of an opening, and uh, you know, I

903
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: can hunt that way. And if he if he comes

904
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: out and he sees a decoy and he's responsive to it,

905
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: then he comes around, gives me a shot, he's the

906
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 1: right buck, then then I'm golden. If it doesn't happen,

907
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 1: I've not have at least not disturbed any significant security

908
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: cover in the process. I can back out, take my

909
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: decoy and go home, so I have seen. You know,

910
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: sometimes you tend to think, well, I've got to be

911
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 1: back in the deepest, darkest swamp to kill one, you know,

912
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 1: during this low period. Maybe not, but you do need

913
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: a little bit of weather or something to get that

914
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: buck a little bit more interested in what's about to

915
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: come in November, and if you get that set of conditions.

916
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: I do think that's a great time to get to

917
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: get a shot at, you know, at some relatively mature buck.

918
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,359
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on all us, Dan, I just

919
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 1: have a question, you know, I always like to learn

920
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: from how I fail? What do you think from from

921
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: a hunter standpoint? Or you know, what do we fail

922
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: at the most? And then how how should we fix

923
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: that failure by learning? Well, here's the thing. You know,

924
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: if you ever run into to some guy who's bragging

925
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: about how smart he was or what a great hunter

926
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: he was because he finally killed the big buck, you

927
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 1: know what I like to do is turn it around

928
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: the other way and say, look, if you want to

929
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 1: take credit for every time you kill a big one,

930
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: you also have to take the blame for every time

931
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: you don't kill one. And that ratio will not be

932
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 1: favorable for anybody. We're all going to fail dozens and

933
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 1: dozens and dozens of times. And when I say failed,

934
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: I mean fails to fill a tag with a mature buck.

935
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that we did anything wrong. And maybe

936
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: he just didn't come by that day, and maybe we

937
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 1: hunted him on the only place in our hunt, our

938
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: potential hunting area where we had a chance, and he

939
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: just didn't walk by that day. We can't make him

940
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: walk by, So sometimes you have to understand that this

941
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,919
Speaker 1: is a if there's a lot of patients involved here.

942
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,919
Speaker 1: I believe it was Jane Winsle who said, many years ago,

943
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: the great Jeane Winsle who said, you know, if you know,

944
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,919
Speaker 1: for us to have a successful season, we've only got

945
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 1: to be right one time. We hunt a hundred days,

946
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: but we only got to be right one time and

947
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: we won the buck. To have an unsuccessful season only

948
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: has to be wrong one time. So you know, if

949
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: you look at it that way, then he ends up dead.

950
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 1: So if look at it that way, you realize our

951
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,760
Speaker 1: steaks are much much lower than his. And the fact

952
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: that we didn't see him does not mean that we

953
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: messed up. It might mean that he just wasn't there

954
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 1: that day. We couldn't hunt where he was. It might

955
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: mean that he never got out of his bed that

956
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: day and we were unwilling to push him out of

957
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 1: his bed to see him so we could say, hey,

958
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 1: we saw a big buck. Doesn't do any good to

959
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 1: say you saw a big buck. You don't get a

960
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: good shot. All you did was mess up your spot.

961
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: So a lot of times what people terms failure, Oh

962
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: too bad, you had a bad hunt. You didn't kill one. Hey,

963
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: some of the best hunts I've ever been on, I

964
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 1: never even saw a big deer, you know, I just

965
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 1: I just loved the people I was with the time

966
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: I was there at the countryside. It challenged the whole

967
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: field of the trip was it was a great trip,

968
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 1: and yet I totally got skunked. So I quote failed.

969
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 1: And other times I've killed a big deer, but I

970
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 1: just didn't particularly like the experience because there were people,

971
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 1: problems or something about it wasn't it just wasn't that

972
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: much fun. And so while I have a nice here

973
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: on my wall, I don't look at that is necessarily

974
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 1: a quote overwhelming success either, because a big part of

975
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: what I was going for was fun and and the

976
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: chance to just to be out in creation and to

977
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: enjoy myself. So so some of it comes down to

978
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: success and failure. Frankly is goes beyond the whether or

979
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: not you feel the tag. So we have to we

980
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: have to be realistic about even why we're out there.

981
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: And I think once we take a little pressure off ourselves,

982
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: I think we just enjoy the hunt more, and frankly

983
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: sometime we hunt better. Do you think that you think

984
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:37,439
Speaker 1: that a lot of hunters are putting pressure on themselves too,

985
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, maybe they're hunting for the

986
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: wrong reasons. I don't think there's any question that that's

987
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: the case. If we if we could get you know, ego,

988
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: which is of course, is just a you know, just

989
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: a basic human frailty, if you will, I mean, I

990
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: think that everybody's got some ego, and yet when we

991
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 1: let it dominate, I want to kill a big deer

992
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: because I want to kill eleven pointer, because old Joe's

993
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: never killed an eleven point. I want to kill a

994
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: deer bigger and Joe's killed. Or I want to dear

995
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: that scores more than so and so, or I want

996
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: people to think I'm the great hunter instead of so

997
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: and so. Well, why are you even out there? Then?

998
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: Because only one guy is gonna kill or one woman

999
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 1: is going to kill the biggest one. Everybody else then

1000
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: theoretically as a failure. You know, if you don't kill

1001
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: the biggest one, that I guess you're you're all losers. Right, Well,

1002
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,240
Speaker 1: I'd hate to think that that's how we gauge deer hunting.

1003
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: But yet some people are that way, and I think

1004
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: perhaps the emphasis on score and ranking and perhaps pro

1005
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 1: staffing television, all the perception by the quote regular person

1006
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 1: that you know, the people out in front of the

1007
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: cameras or in the ads or in the TV, in

1008
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: the magazine articles, perhaps they're um, you know, they think

1009
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: they're better than us. Or you never know how people's

1010
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: minds work, and everybody's different. We know that, but I

1011
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 1: do think there's a lot of people that there's a

1012
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: there's just inherent in the factor here, and and I

1013
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: don't blame them for being an envious of the opportunity

1014
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: for other people have. I think that's it goes without

1015
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 1: saying that they see somebody on TV shooting a monster

1016
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: buck out in beautiful country, they say, gohly, I wish

1017
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: that was me. Um, But I think that's human nature.

1018
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: But but at the same time, I do think if

1019
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: you let it control you and and drive you, you

1020
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 1: can that's where we end up, frankly, with some real

1021
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: legal issues. We certainly end up with ethical problems, and

1022
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: I think we get just a lot of bad blood

1023
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: and none of that is productive for deer hunting. Yeah,

1024
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: very true. It's a it's something that I think that

1025
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,479
Speaker 1: social media and something. We actually had an episode about

1026
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,799
Speaker 1: this relatively recently. We were just talking about this and that.

1027
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: I think social media sometimes is like a compounding factor

1028
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 1: on all these things. Right when you now have the

1029
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 1: ability to everyone can share, everyone sees what everyone else

1030
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 1: has done or has killed, or is doing or whatever

1031
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: it might be. Everyone can comment, and it sometimes creates

1032
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 1: a uh a nasty situation at times that I think

1033
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: seems to then continue this vicious cycle. That is a

1034
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: challenge I think today maybe more so than it ever

1035
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 1: has been. Well, you know what, you know what, you

1036
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: know what you're run into sometimes. I mean, if a

1037
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,720
Speaker 1: buck is too big, if a buck is so big

1038
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:19,960
Speaker 1: that you just have a hard time believing that he's

1039
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: even real. You know, if you put it on Facebook,

1040
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: there will be a response sooner or later, usually within

1041
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 1: the first hour. Well it looks like it's out of

1042
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: a high fence to me, or I think that was

1043
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: poached or so and so bought that off the game

1044
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: farm or fill in the blank. I mean it'll be

1045
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: something negative. Now, Now, I don't think very awesome, to

1046
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: be honest with you that there's any real fire whore

1047
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: the smoke is in this case. I think most big

1048
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: deer are killed the way that people say, and I

1049
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 1: think they're killed fair chase and ethically. But there have

1050
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 1: been enough outliers, if you will, that we know it's

1051
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 1: possible that somebody could try to pull one. And even

1052
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: if the deer is not killed illegally in the high fence,

1053
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: I mean the perception that you're trying to pull something

1054
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: by by bragging about a high fence deer and not

1055
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 1: saying that it's high spence. I think that that has

1056
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 1: got people pretty leary of some of the really big

1057
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: deer that we're legitimately taken. And so, you know, I

1058
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: told somebody one time, I said, man, I said, my

1059
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: my dream is to have shot so many giant bucks

1060
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:26,760
Speaker 1: that everybody thinks I'm a poacher, you know. But but

1061
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 1: but it's a joke, but in some ways it's almost true.

1062
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: It is like, if you've killed very many really big deer,

1063
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: there is somebody that thinks you must be doing it

1064
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: wrong with as well. After all, they lived there their

1065
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 1: whole life and they've never killed one that big. And

1066
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 1: the only alternative to you being a poacher is that

1067
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: you're a better hunter than they are and they can't

1068
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: handle that, so they'll that's impossible. Yeah, you know, and

1069
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: so that's just that's just how people are. I guess again,

1070
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: human nature is explains a lot of these problems, but

1071
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 1: social media has only made it easier for bad human

1072
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: nature to be to be evidence to other people. Yeah, yeah,

1073
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: that's the truth. Well, um, pivoting off, pivoting off of

1074
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: us back to a brighter topic, I suppose, back to

1075
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: back to killing deer. Um. You mentioned trail cameras a

1076
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: little bit as one of the pieces of the puzzle

1077
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: sometimes for people in October. Just kind of curious to

1078
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: hear about your overall take on how you're utilizing trail

1079
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: cameras throughout the year. We always like to kind of

1080
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 1: hear everyone's different perspective on this as it's, of course,

1081
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 1: you know, one of the most commonly used and probably

1082
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:32,240
Speaker 1: um positively used tools out there for helping deer hunters.

1083
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 1: Is that a big piece of what you're doing, you know.

1084
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 1: I I don't use them as religiously as some people do,

1085
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: and part of that is because I tend not to

1086
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: hunt the same locations as nearly as often as the

1087
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: average person does. I U. For instance, this year, I

1088
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 1: was in Wyoming a few weeks ago. Dr Carol and

1089
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: I were hunting out there. It was a ranch I've

1090
00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: never been to before. I don't know if I'll ever

1091
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: be there again. Uh. They were used trail cameras heavily,

1092
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: and they certainly played into our taking a couple of

1093
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 1: beautiful bucks. Um that said, you know, so it isn't

1094
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: always you know me personally, it's actually running the cameras

1095
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 1: as much as people I'm hunting with or hunting on

1096
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: their property or their operations. So in many cases, of course,

1097
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: that is playing directly into where we where we have

1098
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: been set up, and where we end up killing deer.

1099
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: Um that said, I mean, I do still think that

1100
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:32,439
Speaker 1: the greatest advantage of trail cameras is not so much

1101
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 1: indirectly leading to a kill of a certain deer that

1102
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: was on camera. I still believe the greatest advantage, if

1103
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: you will. Number one, they're fun. People love, you know,

1104
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: It's like Christmas. Every time they get to their trail camera,

1105
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: it's like, well what's on my camera? Well, that frankly

1106
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: might be more fun to them than actually sitting in

1107
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 1: a frozen tree, waiting for a buck that never comes by.

1108
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: And that's what that's what the reality of hunting itself

1109
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: often is. We know that the anticipation of deer season

1110
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: is quite often more interesting and enjoyable than hunting itself.

1111
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's just the fact of life, based

1112
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: on the conditions we deal with. So so if you

1113
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: can extend throughout the whole year, whether it's shed hunting,

1114
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: whether it's trail cameras, in particular, the study and the

1115
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: observation and and the sense of wonder you get from quote,

1116
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: watching your dear at two o'clock in the morning over

1117
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 1: a bait station, which you could never see that yourself

1118
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 1: with your own eyes, and yet you get to observe

1119
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: nature in a way that thirty years ago we simply

1120
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 1: could not do. Well. Is that a bad thing? And

1121
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: certainly I look at that as a very positive thing. Um,

1122
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,919
Speaker 1: And yet I would say that that's why I say

1123
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: that in many cases guys have got deer on trail camera,

1124
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: but they never they never see the deer in daylight,

1125
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: or the neighbor killed it three months later, two miles

1126
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: away chasing the dough. But yet they know what dear

1127
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 1: it was so their involvement with specific deer, and their

1128
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 1: ability to manage their land and and understand their buck

1129
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: do ratios and all these things, the fawn crop and

1130
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 1: predator problems and so many things. Even trespassing, obviously security

1131
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: is a big, a big boon of trail cameras. So

1132
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 1: I look at all of this and say, it has

1133
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,920
Speaker 1: added tremendously to our enjoyment of the deerwoods. Whether it

1134
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 1: has resulted in us pinpointing Old Smokey and getting him

1135
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: shot the third morning he comes down that trail, that's

1136
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: another matter. But just enjoying what we do as deer

1137
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: hunters and deer managers, I think that's been a tremendous boon.

1138
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: So I looked at it like, even when I'm not

1139
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 1: running them myself, I'm a I'm very much in favor

1140
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: of their use, and and honestly, when I have a

1141
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 1: chance to use them myself, I certainly do. But when

1142
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 1: we jump around hunt four days here on the place

1143
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 1: we've never been, and then and then a month later

1144
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: we're a thousand miles away hunting five days with somebody

1145
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: we've never never placed, we've never been before. Uh, it's

1146
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: a little difficult to use them for patterning per se

1147
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: in our hands, but we do utilize the knowledge that

1148
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: they they have provided to the landowner before we ever

1149
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: got there, So in that sense, we do use them

1150
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: quite a bit. So, you know, on the topic of

1151
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: the fact that you are traveling all across all across

1152
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 1: the country, you've hunted in in many different areas compared

1153
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: to probably the average hunter um and I'm kind of

1154
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: curious about it's picking your brain about some of those

1155
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: regional differences. You know, one thing we've never talked about

1156
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 1: on this show is hunting Texas. And it sounds like

1157
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: you grew up in Texas. Imagine you've hunted there a lot.

1158
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 1: Can you speak at all about some of the unique

1159
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,720
Speaker 1: aspects of hunting in Texas, whether it be the culture

1160
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: or strategies you know, To be honest with you, it is,

1161
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: you know, almost everything about hunting white tails in Texas

1162
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: is a little different in some way. A white tail

1163
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: is still a white tail. I mean, we we understand

1164
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: the animal is still the same whether he's in South Florida,

1165
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: whether he's in Northern Alberta. It's still the same animal,

1166
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: but he lives in such a different world that in

1167
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: many ways, it's it's like hunting a different spe see.

1168
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: But nonetheless it's you know, people are the same in Ethiopia, Argentina, Canada,

1169
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 1: you know, fill in the blank. A person is still

1170
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 1: a person, but their lifestyle and what they've dealt with

1171
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: in their cultural everything about their their existence is tied

1172
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: to where they're from and and who they're surrounded by. Well, dear,

1173
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: the same way so Texas, Dear, I've often said, are

1174
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: if until you've been to Texas and hunted white tails,

1175
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: you can't really say that you've checked all the boxes

1176
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:35,959
Speaker 1: as a white tail hunter. And I say that knowing

1177
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: that a lot of people will never get that opportunity.

1178
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: And I don't I don't demean people who never go.

1179
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 1: Believe me, I've blessed to been born there and hunted

1180
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: there many times. But this is it's a different world. Um.

1181
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: You see a lot of deer. Generally speaking, the deer

1182
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: are not terribly you know, running over the farthest mountain

1183
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: as soon as they see somebody stick their head up

1184
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: over the horizon. They the deer acting like deer. They're

1185
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: acting like deer should everywhere. But many cases, deer hunted

1186
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 1: so hard they don't get to act that way, and

1187
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 1: yet in Texas you kind of see them act the

1188
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 1: way deer want to act. Well, that's that's a good thing,

1189
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: because that's really that's part of the appreciation of the

1190
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: animal is seeing their natural behavior. You see a lot

1191
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 1: of bucks. Um, yeah, the dear, smaller body, but you

1192
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: see so many of them who cares and the bigger

1193
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 1: deer still impressive. But it's the culture. It's the people,

1194
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 1: it's the size of the land holdings, it's the unique habitat,

1195
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: it's the hunting methods. Almost anything goes in Texas. You

1196
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 1: can ride around in a motor vehicle, don't even have

1197
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 1: to turn the motor off on private land, roll the

1198
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 1: window down and shoot one you feel like shooting one

1199
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 1: that way, you can't. Well, if it's run deer hunting

1200
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 1: in Texas, it's you know, I can't tell that there

1201
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 1: they've got three million deer left. I mean, you know,

1202
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't look to me like it's exactly wipe them out.

1203
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,600
Speaker 1: That said, I understand that that's a foreign way of hunting.

1204
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: It's a foreign way of looking at the at hunting

1205
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: uh in a general sense to a lot of people

1206
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 1: who never been exposed to that. But you don't get

1207
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 1: a lot of deer drives down there. You don't get

1208
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:06,919
Speaker 1: a lot of people shooting it running deer. You get

1209
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: people hunting, you know, relatively calm deer acting naturally on

1210
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: private land. Uh in nice habitat. That is that is

1211
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: different from almost anywhere else. And and and that to

1212
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 1: me is just you know, if I can only hunt

1213
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 1: one state from now, I would hunt Texas. But it

1214
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 1: isn't because the size of the deer. It's just that,

1215
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, Texas is in my home state, and I

1216
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: just feel like there's so many different kinds of hunting there. Um,

1217
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's seven hundred miles across the state, So

1218
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's a lot of different habitats

1219
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: to hunt there. You'd never run out of different ways

1220
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: to hunt. And there's a lot of big bucks. And

1221
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:47,439
Speaker 1: you can hunt them with a rifle and the rug,

1222
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 1: you can hunt them with the bow, you hunt with

1223
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:50,720
Speaker 1: a cross bow. I guess you could do whatever you

1224
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:54,960
Speaker 1: want to. And basically, you know, it's just one of

1225
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: those special places in the deer universe. I you know,

1226
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 1: I'm I'm blessed to have grown up there. I'll put

1227
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:04,520
Speaker 1: it that way. Now, what's the public I'm sorry, go ahead, Mark, No, Danny,

1228
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 1: it's it's all you. What's the public land presence in Texas? Well,

1229
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 1: there isn't much of it, of course, if you look

1230
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: at you look at you know, Illinois has almost none either, uh,

1231
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: Iowa doesn't have much. A lot of states don't have

1232
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: very much. But in Texas what makes it different is

1233
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: that the private land is not only overwhelming, but very

1234
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: but not very much of it can be hunted for free.

1235
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: And it's been that way though since before I was born.

1236
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: I remember back to the early sixties of deer hunting

1237
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: in Texas and it was the leasing already existed in

1238
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: Texas then. Um so when it came to the Midwest.

1239
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,560
Speaker 1: In other places, of course, it was closer shock because

1240
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 1: people just, oh, my goodness, this is the end of

1241
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: the world. Well seem normal to me because I've grown

1242
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 1: up around it. But you know, so there wasn't There's

1243
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 1: never been much of it in terms of public land

1244
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: or free access compared to most states. However, Man, last year,

1245
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 1: I mean a guy took a bow and killed the

1246
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 1: deer over I think he gross about to fifteen in

1247
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 1: central Texas on public land on core of Engineers land,

1248
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: and yet that's an area that people say, we can't

1249
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 1: kill a big buck there, Well, this gotta kill one,

1250
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: you know, big, non typical, and so so there's opportunity

1251
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: there North Texas upon Lake Texoma. You know, to deer

1252
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: over to fifty have been killed in that county with

1253
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 1: a bow. So I mean, it's not like there's no opportunity,

1254
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 1: it's just that you know, it's spotty and you have

1255
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 1: to know what you're looking for. So on that topic,

1256
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: why why is it? And maybe it's just I don't

1257
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:42,240
Speaker 1: know the fate of history order, but why is the

1258
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: culture in Texas in relation to hunting and with access

1259
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 1: so different? I mean, why is it that leasing took

1260
01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: place so early on? And then secondarily, why is the

1261
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 1: fenced hunting culture high fence, low fence, whatever. Why is

1262
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: that so prevalent in Texas compared to everywhere else based

1263
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 1: on your experience and we've heard and seen sure. Now

1264
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: now of course you know right up front we even

1265
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 1: with the fencing thing, most most land in Texas is

1266
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 1: not high fenced. Um. In fact, even most land in

1267
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:12,920
Speaker 1: South Texas I would say probably is not high fence.

1268
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 1: It's just that defenses. When you drive down a road

1269
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 1: in Texas, I mean, if there's high sense that's right

1270
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: next to the road, maybe it's on both sides, and

1271
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 1: you just think, goli, I'm in the middle of a

1272
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: you know, some kind of a prison compound or something.

1273
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: Then it goes on for thirty miles, you know. But

1274
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 1: but sometimes sometimes there's you'll have large areas that are

1275
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 1: all high fence, all individual rants is all fenced apart

1276
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 1: from each other. Now, now, of course, sometimes you're talking

1277
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 1: about a place that is U thirty tho acres and

1278
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: all of the brush has thorns on it, and it's

1279
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 1: so thick you can't see twenty ft unless you're on

1280
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 1: a road or on a fence line, and so you

1281
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 1: have to practically have a helicopter to see the deer

1282
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 1: that are in it. Yet they're surrounded by a high fence.

1283
01:06:56,560 --> 01:07:00,240
Speaker 1: And so you know how that began. I mean there

1284
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,440
Speaker 1: were people there that had their resources. I mean, there

1285
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 1: were some very wealthy ranchers there that had resources, and

1286
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: they either you know, we're having neighbor problems. That's generally

1287
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:13,560
Speaker 1: what causes fencing problems. UH fences to be built is

1288
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 1: the problem with neighbors. It isn't so much that. In fact,

1289
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 1: I know people would have built fences because they had

1290
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 1: food plots, and they were low fence with their neighbors,

1291
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 1: and their neighbors made no effort to control their dear number.

1292
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,920
Speaker 1: So every time the neighborhood, this guy would plant a

1293
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 1: food plot, especially if you irrigated it. Well, here came

1294
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: all these deer will come to dear season. You shoot

1295
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:35,720
Speaker 1: all these those and you think, okay, I've got my

1296
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 1: dear number done. And next year here comes in other ways,

1297
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: because there's nothing to stop them from coming off the

1298
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: neighbor So in some cases fences were literally built to

1299
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 1: keep deer out more so than to keep deer in. Nonetheless,

1300
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 1: when they are confined, I understand, you know as well

1301
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 1: as anybody, the rule of fair chase with would be

1302
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 1: in c N T N L I as you just

1303
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: can't have them, you know, inside an artificial confinement of

1304
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 1: that nature. Um, you know they call it fair chase.

1305
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 1: But I have also said, look, if I were if

1306
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: you told me, I could be a buck chasing a

1307
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 1: dough and I could be in a fifty thousand acres

1308
01:08:10,720 --> 01:08:15,200
Speaker 1: pasture of head, high brush and cactus. In South Texas

1309
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:19,640
Speaker 1: surrounded by a high fense. Or I could be in

1310
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 1: a snowfield in Alberta and the one wood lot that's

1311
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,800
Speaker 1: in this whole half a county, and I've I've gone

1312
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: in there with this dough into this wood lot in

1313
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: in knee deep snow, and there's two sets of tracks

1314
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: going into it and none coming out. And there's twenty

1315
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 1: five guys in orange lined up in the circle around

1316
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 1: that wood lot. Which buck would I rather be? I'd

1317
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: way rather be the buck in the highest fence, then

1318
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 1: I would that quote free ranging buck in Canada, you know,

1319
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 1: because which one's got a better chance of escaping? I mean,

1320
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: and so so you. It's hard to define high fence

1321
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 1: as good, bad, or otherwise. I think it's just another

1322
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 1: management tool. I understand the people that say, oh, look, well,

1323
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: that's not fair chaise. The fact of the matter is

1324
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 1: that most people, in my opinion, who complain about fair chaise,

1325
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 1: they're not worried about fair to the animal. They're worried

1326
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 1: about fair to them, quote competing with the guy that

1327
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 1: gets the hunt inside of one. That's the reality of it.

1328
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 1: I don't believe any of these people are concerned about

1329
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 1: animal welfare. I don't think that's why they oppose high fence.

1330
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 1: They just feel like that guy's got an edge on

1331
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:28,720
Speaker 1: them and they don't like it. And I don't, and

1332
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:31,680
Speaker 1: nobody will ever convince me otherwise. And so I just

1333
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 1: think if people look deep in their hearts, that they

1334
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: will realize that's why they don't like high fence. They're

1335
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: not worried about the deer. Deer inside of high fence

1336
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: are probably better taking care of than a lot of

1337
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 1: low fense there are. And I say all this as

1338
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:44,920
Speaker 1: a guy who doesn't I've hunted high fence many, many

1339
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:47,120
Speaker 1: years ago, but I don't do it anymore. But I

1340
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: have no problem with it as a management tool because

1341
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 1: I know most of the people that have high fences

1342
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: also really love their ranches and they love their land

1343
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: and are trying to grow big deer even though they

1344
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 1: know they can't go on the record book. They us

1345
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 1: want to do the best they can with their land

1346
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:05,599
Speaker 1: and offensive wells and to do that, so it isn't

1347
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:07,759
Speaker 1: I don't put it out there. It's a polarizing topic

1348
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:10,440
Speaker 1: as much as I just think it's it's poorly understood

1349
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 1: by people who have never been around it. Yeah, it's

1350
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:16,000
Speaker 1: definitely something very foreign to so many of us who

1351
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:17,960
Speaker 1: have never been exposed to anything like that. And I

1352
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,839
Speaker 1: can understand how there's definitely some shades of gray, especially

1353
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 1: large properties like that. But I'm curious, would you would

1354
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:29,160
Speaker 1: you make the same defense for one of these situations

1355
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:33,600
Speaker 1: where it's the small areas, like a twenty acre enclosure,

1356
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:37,760
Speaker 1: where they are micro breeding with you know, artificial insemination

1357
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 1: of these bucks and you know, creating these gargangelan animals, etcetera, etcetera,

1358
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:43,679
Speaker 1: and then selling off, you know, one of those deer

1359
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 1: to be shot in there for fifty dollars. Is that

1360
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 1: something that is different than what you're describing. Yeah, that's

1361
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:54,840
Speaker 1: animal husbandry, and that is basically you have converted there

1362
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 1: into livestock at that point, Um, I have no interest

1363
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 1: in hunting livestock. I don't ink that's a positive image

1364
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 1: for hunting. Now. That said, you know, it's of course

1365
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 1: up to every I guess the public or the leaders

1366
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 1: in every state or province to decide what's legal and

1367
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:17,679
Speaker 1: what's not in terms of uh, you know, enclosures and

1368
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:20,680
Speaker 1: and and commercialized hunting inside high fences and all this

1369
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: sorts of things. I really don't. Don't look at it

1370
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 1: as having a blanket statement on it's saying okay, there's

1371
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 1: a definitive if it's if it's six acres, it's okay.

1372
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 1: If it's five nine, it's not. Well, I think we

1373
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:37,799
Speaker 1: all know that, you know, there's a lot more variables

1374
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 1: than that, um and so I can understand the taking

1375
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 1: the high road on it as the as the record

1376
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,120
Speaker 1: books have and just saying simply, we're not going to

1377
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 1: get into this shades of gray routine. We're going to

1378
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:50,600
Speaker 1: just say you've either got a fence, a hunme it

1379
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: or you don't. If it's it's half a Texas inside

1380
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 1: of one fence and you have access to all of

1381
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 1: it as a hunter, then it's high fence, you know.

1382
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 1: And so again there's all the different shades of gray

1383
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:05,559
Speaker 1: sometimes because we have the uh, you know, we do

1384
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: have the people that are saying, well, mine is almost

1385
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:10,519
Speaker 1: all high fence, except I left the gate open on

1386
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:13,400
Speaker 1: one end, and if I sit there long enough, I'll

1387
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,360
Speaker 1: kill a buck that comes through that gate. Well, in effect,

1388
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 1: you have altered the habit at and you've altered the

1389
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:23,559
Speaker 1: deer's opportunity to escape. But your quote legal perhaps by

1390
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 1: Boone and Crockett poping young. I mean, people are always

1391
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 1: going to look for the loopholes. But I would say

1392
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 1: that in general, if you start breeding animals specifically almost

1393
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:37,800
Speaker 1: if you start calling it put in take hunting, let's say, um,

1394
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:40,640
Speaker 1: you know, you know, we don't look at you know,

1395
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:43,639
Speaker 1: game birds is like, well, what's the state record rooster

1396
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 1: for Minnesota? Which one had the longest tail? Well that

1397
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 1: one was shot in a while, but this one was

1398
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 1: a release bird, so he doesn't count well. Same with

1399
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 1: stock fish. I mean, we have different attitudes sometimes about

1400
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:57,759
Speaker 1: big game being stocked and released and you know, putting

1401
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:01,640
Speaker 1: tag versus hunt small game birds or fish something of

1402
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 1: that nature. We we kind of differentiate that in our minds,

1403
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 1: I think, But when it comes to big game, I

1404
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:09,600
Speaker 1: just don't think you can have an animal that was

1405
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 1: ever handled by man and really and then release back

1406
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: into an enclosure at any point. It's one thing to

1407
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 1: say you had a faun that you got out of

1408
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 1: a fence, he turned him loose, and five years later

1409
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 1: out in a while he became a boon and Crockett, well,

1410
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 1: that's different from saying you you bottle fitting you know,

1411
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 1: or you you gave him a name, or you tattooed

1412
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 1: something a number in his ear. He was walking around

1413
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,560
Speaker 1: with the yellow ear tag him and he shot him.

1414
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 1: You know, all these are different shades of livestock and

1415
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 1: animal husbandry as opposed to pure wildlife management in my opinion,

1416
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 1: I mean, my opinion doesn't account from us, but that's

1417
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 1: just my opinion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I tend to tend

1418
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 1: to agree with you on that. I don't personally think

1419
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 1: that I would not call that hunting um and I

1420
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 1: think that there in lies some of the issues I

1421
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 1: take with with some of those practices. But I've I've

1422
01:13:57,520 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 1: talked plenty about my things, not all that on past

1423
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: past conversations and everything. But I think you bring up

1424
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,760
Speaker 1: an interesting point, and it's one that sometimes I I

1425
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 1: sometimes fail to think through because of just not having

1426
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:13,080
Speaker 1: that context, you know, having experience in Texas where I

1427
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 1: think it's easy for some of us to put to

1428
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: throw that blanket negativity on high fence, when to your point,

1429
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:21,600
Speaker 1: you know, there's very different shades of gray when it

1430
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 1: comes to that whole issue. But back to back to

1431
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:29,360
Speaker 1: killing dear, if I'm in Texas and this is a

1432
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: horrible question, I know this is a horrible question. But

1433
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 1: like I mentioned, we've never really talked about Texas hunting

1434
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:37,000
Speaker 1: on this show before. And I apologize to everyone who

1435
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 1: hunts in Texas and who listens and who's thought, why

1436
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:41,639
Speaker 1: why don't you guys care about us? So I'm gonna

1437
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 1: put a lot of pressure on you right now, Gordon.

1438
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:46,519
Speaker 1: For someone hunting in Texas, that's okay, I don't I

1439
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:50,560
Speaker 1: don't mind. I'll talk about Texas all day. It's so

1440
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:54,360
Speaker 1: so for somebody hunting in Texas, you know, on their

1441
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 1: own in like, can you give me a cliff Notes

1442
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:01,639
Speaker 1: version overview of your best ice for killing mature deer

1443
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 1: in Texas? Handful? You had to pick a handful of things.

1444
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 1: If if if the thing about it in Texas, it's

1445
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:14,760
Speaker 1: all about access. If you have access where the habitat

1446
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:20,679
Speaker 1: is good, it probably has a stable and relatively dense

1447
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 1: population of white tails already there. I mean, there are

1448
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 1: some marginal habitats in northwest Texas. You get out in

1449
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: some real open, dry country with very little habitat. It's

1450
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:33,559
Speaker 1: a little bit of linear habitat, but very fragmented. Some

1451
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 1: of that country doesn't have many deer in it. But

1452
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 1: if you get anywhere in the eastern half or two

1453
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:42,759
Speaker 1: thirds of the state. And what I would tell somebody

1454
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:44,720
Speaker 1: is if you were going to go to Texas and

1455
01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 1: you said, look, here's because we all have a budget.

1456
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 1: You know, we may not adhere to it, but we

1457
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:51,080
Speaker 1: all have some idea of what we can spend to

1458
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:53,880
Speaker 1: go deer hunting every year. If somebody says, look, I've

1459
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:56,719
Speaker 1: got a thousand dollars, I've saved it for two years

1460
01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:58,640
Speaker 1: and a coffee. Can I want to go Texas? To

1461
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 1: Texas and at least say I went hunt? Okay, well

1462
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 1: and dollars, that's going to cost you your license. So

1463
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,040
Speaker 1: already you're down to pretty much gas money and eating

1464
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 1: free toes, you know. But okay, where can you go

1465
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 1: and have a chance to kill a deer? Well, yeah,

1466
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 1: you can put in for some of these corps of

1467
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:19,839
Speaker 1: engineer hunts. They're mostly bow hunts. There are some probably

1468
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 1: you can knock on enough doors, if you had enough time,

1469
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: you you probably could get somebody in a little not

1470
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 1: in the prime areas, but some of these fringe areas

1471
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:29,400
Speaker 1: you probably get somebody say yeah, I'll let you hunt

1472
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:32,080
Speaker 1: for fifty dollars or whatever. You know, go out and

1473
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 1: sitting on that stump and see if one comes by,

1474
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:35,920
Speaker 1: you might kill a big buck doing that. I mean,

1475
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,440
Speaker 1: in general, if you really want to take it seriously,

1476
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:41,439
Speaker 1: most outsiders are going to end up either hunting with

1477
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: family or they're going to to to in many cases

1478
01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:48,600
Speaker 1: actually do a seasoned lease of land the way a

1479
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 1: lot of people now do in the Midwest. They may

1480
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 1: not live there, but they may say, look, we're, you know,

1481
01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 1: four of us going to go together in lease this

1482
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:59,680
Speaker 1: little farm or wrench. And that's how most guys end

1483
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 1: up doing it. But finding that place is difficult no

1484
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 1: matter where you go, your place of inequality. And so

1485
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:09,600
Speaker 1: I would say myself, based on the size of some

1486
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 1: of the deer killed around some of the public reservoirs,

1487
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 1: the Corps of Engineers land, I probably would look at

1488
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:19,120
Speaker 1: that first and say, that's my best shot at killing

1489
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:23,240
Speaker 1: a really nice deer at quote bargain prices in Texas.

1490
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 1: That that would be my that would be my approach personally. Interesting,

1491
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:30,240
Speaker 1: and this is another thing that I've read a lot

1492
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:32,960
Speaker 1: about in the past, just a tactic that I've heard

1493
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 1: that works remarkably well in Texas compared to a lot

1494
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:38,639
Speaker 1: of places. And that's just rattling, right. We all rattled

1495
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 1: all across the country with varying levels of success. But

1496
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 1: from what I understand, it's different in Texas. Is that true?

1497
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:49,439
Speaker 1: Well it probably you know, who's to say where it

1498
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 1: really started. I do think it was. It was popularized,

1499
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:55,439
Speaker 1: no question in South and central Texas, probably back in

1500
01:17:55,479 --> 01:18:01,280
Speaker 1: the fifties and even into the sixties. Early practitioners in

1501
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 1: Texas circles Bob Ramsey's He's dead and gone now, but

1502
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:07,879
Speaker 1: he was considered one of the uh truly the founding

1503
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,400
Speaker 1: father of modern rattling in Texas, and he caught a

1504
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:13,240
Speaker 1: lot of the outdoor riders. He and they have then

1505
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:17,600
Speaker 1: get proliferated from there, long before television or anything of

1506
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: that nature. But I will say that there's something about

1507
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:27,360
Speaker 1: Texas when you when you start rattling in Texas and

1508
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 1: things are right, you'd better have your gun ready and

1509
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:35,519
Speaker 1: you'd better be looking because literally, I mean, I've killed

1510
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:37,880
Speaker 1: deer that what that jumped out of the brush within

1511
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 1: ten seconds, mature deer and just said here, I am

1512
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:44,719
Speaker 1: shooting me, okay, And I shot him. Now, I didn't

1513
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:46,719
Speaker 1: I didn't argue with him, I just shot him, okay.

1514
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 1: So uh and sometimes sometimes it's just that magical. Sometimes

1515
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 1: you can sit in one spot in the brush have

1516
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:58,240
Speaker 1: and say that I saw ten or more bucks, and

1517
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:00,200
Speaker 1: there you're You're on the ground and the brother you're

1518
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 1: not even in a blind, you're not a tree, you're

1519
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 1: not You're just in the brush, okay, and you saw

1520
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 1: ten bucks that you could identify differently come in and

1521
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:11,200
Speaker 1: kind of have circle you like sharks almost, And then

1522
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:13,439
Speaker 1: they'd leave and get down wind and they'd run off

1523
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 1: or whatever. Then someone would come back and then a

1524
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: little one would run into the middle of them. Say

1525
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:20,679
Speaker 1: what's going on, guys? I mean sometimes it's just that's

1526
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:24,240
Speaker 1: a nuthouse sometimes. So does it work like that in

1527
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:29,040
Speaker 1: most other places? Absolutely not, Um Texas, there's something about

1528
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 1: it that's just magical. It must be the herd dynamics.

1529
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:37,200
Speaker 1: That may be the habitat type, but South Texas in particular,

1530
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:40,640
Speaker 1: if you if you hit the antlers, you need to

1531
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:43,200
Speaker 1: have your gun loaded, you need to be looking around,

1532
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 1: you need to be ready, ready to shoot something, because

1533
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:49,200
Speaker 1: then literally before you can get settled in, you might

1534
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:51,559
Speaker 1: have the biggest buck you've ever seen in twenty yards

1535
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:55,240
Speaker 1: from your looking right down your throat. Now why if

1536
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:57,200
Speaker 1: that why it's that way? I wish I could tell you,

1537
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 1: because I'd make it that way everywhere, But and I'm

1538
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:03,000
Speaker 1: not that smart. You know, that would be nice. What

1539
01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:05,800
Speaker 1: is the right you said, like, when the timing is

1540
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:07,439
Speaker 1: right or something along those lines, What are the right

1541
01:20:07,479 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 1: conditions at the right time to actually pull off that

1542
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:12,519
Speaker 1: type of scenario in Texas? Is it just the rut?

1543
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 1: When is that? I don't know, is this something different?

1544
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 1: You know? It's funny. I've I've rattled in a lot

1545
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:20,679
Speaker 1: of places. I think the earliest I've ever seen deer

1546
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:23,280
Speaker 1: come to rattling was like tinkling antlers was like early

1547
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:26,840
Speaker 1: September in Kansas. And the latest I've ever seen them

1548
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 1: relative to the rut was like January ninth in Iowa,

1549
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 1: where I've seen a deer commenced say clarity that deer

1550
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:36,559
Speaker 1: is responding to rattling. The latest I've killed the deer

1551
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:40,679
Speaker 1: that I could say was coming into quote rattling, although

1552
01:20:40,720 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 1: in this case it was an actual live buck fight

1553
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:46,600
Speaker 1: that he was responding to, was February the twenty in

1554
01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:51,280
Speaker 1: South Texas, um we heard the deer fighting in the brush.

1555
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 1: The sixth and a half year late, pointer there's like

1556
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:56,320
Speaker 1: two thirty on the hoof big big Texas deer. He

1557
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:58,720
Speaker 1: goes rushing over there. I whistle, let him stop him

1558
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:01,000
Speaker 1: and shot him before we got to the fight. But

1559
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:03,640
Speaker 1: we could hear the fight in the brush. This was February,

1560
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: but that's also about two months past peak rut in

1561
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:11,599
Speaker 1: that area. Those deer normally rut in December, so it

1562
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:15,559
Speaker 1: wasn't like February in Arkansas or something, but it but

1563
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 1: it was definitely way, way way late in the year,

1564
01:21:18,240 --> 01:21:20,120
Speaker 1: and that was one of those places. Yet you know,

1565
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 1: you could one of those ranches you could hunt through

1566
01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:24,120
Speaker 1: the end of February with the you know bucks and

1567
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 1: does because of a special permit situation. But we literally

1568
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 1: killed a buck on February twenty two running to an

1569
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:32,920
Speaker 1: actual buck fight. So you know, if I look at

1570
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 1: it and I say, you know, what are the conditions

1571
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:39,719
Speaker 1: that it takes. Um, I've tried it early, I've tried

1572
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:43,599
Speaker 1: it late. You know, mostly you're gonna kill him in between. Uh.

1573
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:46,160
Speaker 1: Some people say, man, I just don't like I don't

1574
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:49,240
Speaker 1: like peak rut because that's you know, all the big

1575
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 1: bucks with those Well, there are times during peak road

1576
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:55,240
Speaker 1: even granted that's a little bit later than you normally

1577
01:21:55,320 --> 01:21:58,080
Speaker 1: get the best response. Normally late free road is when

1578
01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:00,479
Speaker 1: you get the best response all so when you get

1579
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 1: the best response to like bug de coin. But I

1580
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:06,920
Speaker 1: would say that you can rattle in some really big

1581
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:09,360
Speaker 1: deer during the absolute peak of the rudd because they

1582
01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:13,720
Speaker 1: happened to be between those. Um I rattled in a

1583
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:16,519
Speaker 1: big hundred fifty something is nine pointer in Alberta one

1584
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:18,759
Speaker 1: time on the ground at seventeen steps in the middle

1585
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:22,600
Speaker 1: of a ball field swamp November the eighteenth. That was

1586
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 1: as peak rudder as you could get. And yet he

1587
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:26,560
Speaker 1: came walking in at living thirty in the morning and

1588
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:28,080
Speaker 1: just walk up and see what I was, and I

1589
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: shot him, So you know it. You know, they don't

1590
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 1: swarm around you in Alberta maybe the way they do

1591
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 1: in South Texas, but it still works. It's just a

1592
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 1: function of lower deer densities. Sometimes they have to travel

1593
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:43,759
Speaker 1: farther to get to you. But you know, if you're patient,

1594
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:46,280
Speaker 1: if you can't rattle the man, if you don't try

1595
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:48,240
Speaker 1: to rattle them, that's the one thing about it. You know,

1596
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:50,599
Speaker 1: you'll never rattle in the deer you don't try to rattle.

1597
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: So a lot of people say that, well, it just

1598
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:55,639
Speaker 1: doesn't work. I try it one time, it didn't work. Well,

1599
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:59,000
Speaker 1: it's like saying I try to green, you know, jitterbug

1600
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,000
Speaker 1: one time and I didn't catch a big bass on it,

1601
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:03,679
Speaker 1: so it's not a good bass lure. Well that's that's

1602
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:06,720
Speaker 1: that's crazy. But yet that's if you don't have confidence,

1603
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 1: you can you can fake yourself out of almost any

1604
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 1: kind of success if you try hard enough. And a

1605
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:14,120
Speaker 1: lot of people just don't have the confidence because they think, oh,

1606
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: this is silly, this isn't gonna work. Well, your opinion

1607
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:19,760
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. The deer's opinion is what matters, you know,

1608
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 1: And if you do it right and you give it

1609
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,000
Speaker 1: a chance a lot of times, you'll you'll realize, man,

1610
01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:27,000
Speaker 1: this this stuff works. And that's true of almost any tactic.

1611
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:30,040
Speaker 1: You gotta give it a fair chance. All right. Well,

1612
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:32,200
Speaker 1: before we move on to my next question for Gordon,

1613
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:35,160
Speaker 1: we need to pause briefly for word from the sponsors

1614
01:23:35,200 --> 01:23:38,880
Speaker 1: of this episode of the podcast Carbon Express Arrows. And

1615
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 1: I've been shooting Carbon Express errors for very close to

1616
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 1: my entire bow hunting life. But one thing that I

1617
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:46,360
Speaker 1: know I've personally struggled with at times and I know

1618
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 1: a lot of other hunters have to is just wrapping

1619
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 1: my head around all the technology that goes into an

1620
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 1: arrow and how it might make one arrow better than another.

1621
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:58,000
Speaker 1: So that said, today I pulled in carbon Expresses alex

1622
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:00,639
Speaker 1: Tap to help us try to understand that very question

1623
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:05,160
Speaker 1: in regards to their flagship arrow, the Maxima Red. What

1624
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:07,519
Speaker 1: goes into that arrow is UM, First of all, a

1625
01:24:07,520 --> 01:24:10,240
Speaker 1: lot of technology UM, something that you just really don't

1626
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:14,919
Speaker 1: see on the market UM across the board. So difference

1627
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:17,320
Speaker 1: between that and your general ARRA that you're going to

1628
01:24:17,360 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 1: find in any other company is going to be the

1629
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 1: triple spine. So what that means is there's three separate

1630
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:27,320
Speaker 1: sections that are fused together UM, the middle section being

1631
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:32,599
Speaker 1: extremely weak, the end sections being extremely stiff. What that does,

1632
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 1: UM for a bow hunter specifically, is it keeps all

1633
01:24:36,560 --> 01:24:39,519
Speaker 1: of that flex in the middle. So an arrow does

1634
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 1: need to flex to be accurate. UM. It needs to

1635
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:44,559
Speaker 1: flex a certain amount, not too much, not too little.

1636
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:48,639
Speaker 1: And that's why you see different spines UM for different drawings,

1637
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,800
Speaker 1: different poundages, because that arrow does need to flex a

1638
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:55,800
Speaker 1: specific amount UM. So getting back to the red zone,

1639
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:58,559
Speaker 1: what that what that does differently is that it still

1640
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:00,680
Speaker 1: flexes just as much as it need too, but your

1641
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:03,920
Speaker 1: broadhead moves around less, your veins are moving around less,

1642
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:06,720
Speaker 1: you're not moving around less. All of that flex is

1643
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:10,719
Speaker 1: harnessed in the middle um and it really helps with accuracy,

1644
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:15,800
Speaker 1: specifically with broadhead accuracy. Now that makes sense to me.

1645
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 1: So if you'd like to learn more about carbon Express

1646
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 1: arrows or the Maxima reds, which are in fact the

1647
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:24,839
Speaker 1: arrows that I personally shoot, you can visit carbon Express

1648
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:29,800
Speaker 1: Arrows dot com. And now back to the show and

1649
01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:32,160
Speaker 1: now and now. A lot of these aggressive tactics like

1650
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 1: that kind of rattling and stuff. I feel like these

1651
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:36,640
Speaker 1: are assumptions, but I feel like that's something you know

1652
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:39,759
Speaker 1: that that works particularly well in a spot like Texas,

1653
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:42,200
Speaker 1: where you mentioned there's some kind of unique herd dynamics,

1654
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:45,760
Speaker 1: or maybe in a spot like Iowa, Kansas, where you

1655
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 1: know there's a disproportionate high number of older deer and

1656
01:25:49,160 --> 01:25:51,280
Speaker 1: lower numbers of hunters relatives to a lot of spots

1657
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:55,280
Speaker 1: in the country. But I'm curious Texas, it's a southern state. Now,

1658
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:57,280
Speaker 1: compare that to one of these other southern states, one

1659
01:25:57,280 --> 01:26:00,960
Speaker 1: of the south Southeastern states like Alabama, Georgia where you live,

1660
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 1: or anything along those lines. How does it differ from

1661
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:06,919
Speaker 1: Texas to those parts of the country. Is are aggressive

1662
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:10,040
Speaker 1: tactics like rattling and everything, you know, on average something

1663
01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:12,160
Speaker 1: that are going to be on par with their neighbor

1664
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 1: in Texas or is it totally different in that part

1665
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 1: of the country. I think you're I think relative to

1666
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 1: the number of bucks within hearing range, good property is

1667
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:26,160
Speaker 1: good property. I think. You know, I can't say this

1668
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:28,920
Speaker 1: because it's never hunted New Hampshire, but I suspect that

1669
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 1: if you're in New Hampshire and you're in a bus

1670
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:33,280
Speaker 1: in the right frame of mind, and you rattle to

1671
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:36,160
Speaker 1: him and he hears you, that there's a very good

1672
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:41,800
Speaker 1: chance that he's coming. Now the habitat type, his particular

1673
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:45,599
Speaker 1: aversion to moving, you know, through openings and things like that,

1674
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:48,680
Speaker 1: based on hunting pressure and all that. I mean, I

1675
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:51,599
Speaker 1: do think that obviously all that comes into play, much

1676
01:26:51,600 --> 01:26:53,760
Speaker 1: as it does with you know, does a big bull

1677
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:57,240
Speaker 1: elk on public land it's it's heard five thousand bad

1678
01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:01,160
Speaker 1: bugles from hunters or kirkey yelps hunter, you know whatever.

1679
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:04,599
Speaker 1: Do all these animals get educated and do they get

1680
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:07,360
Speaker 1: you know, call shy and all that. Well, absolutely they do.

1681
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 1: You know, the older ones have heard this routine before.

1682
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 1: But in general, if you say, I have not over

1683
01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 1: rattled or called or decoyed or whatever the tactic is,

1684
01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:20,559
Speaker 1: but I'm going to apply it at the right time,

1685
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 1: let's say, late pre run early breeding period, the right

1686
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:27,400
Speaker 1: kind of habitat. You know, where do you feel comfortable

1687
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:31,040
Speaker 1: moving in daylight through this habitat to get to the

1688
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 1: to the sound of the fight or or the ground

1689
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:36,720
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. And I do think that on

1690
01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:40,840
Speaker 1: an individual basis, the deer in here in the southeast

1691
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:44,080
Speaker 1: or just about as likely to respond. They might not

1692
01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 1: come in acting like you know while that act like

1693
01:27:47,160 --> 01:27:48,960
Speaker 1: they want to fight, but they do come in to

1694
01:27:49,080 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 1: check it out. And that's really, frankly, about all you need.

1695
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 1: You know, ideally, he just wanted to come in where

1696
01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:55,920
Speaker 1: you can get him shot. You don't care if he

1697
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 1: comes in with his hair on fire. But but I

1698
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:01,639
Speaker 1: would say that you don't tend to see the response

1699
01:28:01,680 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 1: here as much because, frankly, the landholdings are smaller, the

1700
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:09,679
Speaker 1: hunting pressure is higher, the deer is somewhat more educated

1701
01:28:09,720 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 1: in general, and frankly, there's so much cover here that

1702
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:15,880
Speaker 1: they're very difficult to see. Uh, they're very difficult see

1703
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:17,760
Speaker 1: in Texas too, But you just set up where they

1704
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:20,240
Speaker 1: have to cross the sendero or a cactus flat or

1705
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 1: something where you've got to fighting chance to at least

1706
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:24,680
Speaker 1: get a look at them before they smell you and

1707
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:27,439
Speaker 1: run off. And so and there you've got so much

1708
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:29,599
Speaker 1: more land to work. I mean, if if you rattle

1709
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:32,120
Speaker 1: right here in Texas and you say, well, we didn't

1710
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 1: rattle in but a couple of two year old, let's

1711
01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:36,599
Speaker 1: let's walk three yards cross wind and go over there

1712
01:28:36,600 --> 01:28:38,559
Speaker 1: and set up by that stock pond, and we'll rattle again.

1713
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:40,360
Speaker 1: Where you go over there and there's seven different bucks

1714
01:28:40,400 --> 01:28:41,800
Speaker 1: and you and you shoot one of them, and then

1715
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:43,400
Speaker 1: you walk half mile over here and then you see

1716
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:46,280
Speaker 1: another big one. Okay, well that's that's a different world.

1717
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:50,599
Speaker 1: And almost anybody can you can relate to in whitetail hunting,

1718
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:54,719
Speaker 1: because that's just not quote normal. Uh. But yet down

1719
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:57,639
Speaker 1: there you have you may have thousands of acres one pasture,

1720
01:28:57,720 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 1: so you don't you're not limited to one tree space.

1721
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:01,719
Speaker 1: I'm sitting up on one two week of food plot.

1722
01:29:02,160 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got your your hunting a very big world. Yeah,

1723
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:09,640
Speaker 1: that's so so different. So in that in that situation

1724
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 1: in the southeast where there's so much cover and a

1725
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:15,040
Speaker 1: lot more hunters. Um. I guess, reverting back to what

1726
01:29:15,160 --> 01:29:17,720
Speaker 1: we originally talked about at the beginning of our conversation,

1727
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:21,400
Speaker 1: let's say that's our situation. I'm hunting the southeast, lots

1728
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:24,800
Speaker 1: of cover, lots of hunters, and it's October. Is there

1729
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 1: anything different than I'm doing down there than I would,

1730
01:29:27,080 --> 01:29:28,400
Speaker 1: you know, for me up here in Michigan, like the

1731
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:30,680
Speaker 1: stuff we talked about early, is there anything unique to

1732
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:32,559
Speaker 1: that part of the country that you know, I could

1733
01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:36,200
Speaker 1: possibly apply if I was trying it out done there. Well,

1734
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:40,360
Speaker 1: here in Georgia, you tend to get in November rut um,

1735
01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:45,000
Speaker 1: places like South Carolina low country, the coastal plains there

1736
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:48,040
Speaker 1: that parts of South Georgia that are adjacent to that

1737
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:51,680
Speaker 1: you tend to get into October rut um. The low

1738
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 1: country of South Carolina right now is pretty much peak

1739
01:29:54,280 --> 01:29:57,439
Speaker 1: rut So you could you could definitely, you know, ramp

1740
01:29:57,520 --> 01:30:01,080
Speaker 1: up your aggressive tactics, um, whether it was calling or

1741
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:04,639
Speaker 1: just hoping to catch bucks out, cruising food plots, and

1742
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:07,320
Speaker 1: and and cutovers and things like that. Looking for a dough,

1743
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:09,880
Speaker 1: you get a lot more daytime movement. You come up

1744
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:12,160
Speaker 1: here to Georgia right now, and the movement's not nearly

1745
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:14,680
Speaker 1: as high. A lot of these places were restocked with

1746
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:18,360
Speaker 1: totally different geno types of deer over a long period

1747
01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:20,880
Speaker 1: of time, and those genotypes have tended to hold in

1748
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:25,559
Speaker 1: terms of rutting dates. So Georgia, even parts of Georgia,

1749
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:28,960
Speaker 1: one part of one county was restocked with Texas deer

1750
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:31,760
Speaker 1: they run at a certain time, and another part of

1751
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:34,559
Speaker 1: that same county was restocked with Michigan deer. One well,

1752
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:37,679
Speaker 1: they they have still had two separate kind of ruts

1753
01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:41,720
Speaker 1: in that one county even fifty fifty years later. And

1754
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:47,120
Speaker 1: that's that's roughly fifteen generations of deer. Let's say that

1755
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:50,640
Speaker 1: they still have basics and those deers not totally homogenized.

1756
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:52,880
Speaker 1: And so you really do have to know when you

1757
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:55,840
Speaker 1: say October in the southeast, well, that could mean if

1758
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:58,720
Speaker 1: that means Alabama, Mississippi, where they have a December a

1759
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:02,360
Speaker 1: Christmas rut, or in Black Belt of Alabama where you

1760
01:31:02,439 --> 01:31:05,759
Speaker 1: have when I shot a buck chasing a dough January thirtieth,

1761
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:08,559
Speaker 1: A few years ago. It's a fully mature buck and

1762
01:31:08,920 --> 01:31:11,320
Speaker 1: next to the last day of the season. And so

1763
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:14,719
Speaker 1: you know where else could you find that? Not many places,

1764
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:17,680
Speaker 1: but yet so but that's just the deer they have.

1765
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:20,720
Speaker 1: They have very late running deer. Other places, like say

1766
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:24,120
Speaker 1: South Carolina, they happen to be early. So it's a

1767
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:27,840
Speaker 1: broad you know, it's a broad topic to try to cover.

1768
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:31,639
Speaker 1: To say, any given date in the Southeast is uh,

1769
01:31:31,720 --> 01:31:33,879
Speaker 1: it's not like the Midwest, whom you say, Gali November

1770
01:31:33,880 --> 01:31:35,960
Speaker 1: tenth is a magical day. It's always going to be.

1771
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:38,080
Speaker 1: I don't care what the weather is, whatever else. Some

1772
01:31:38,120 --> 01:31:42,160
Speaker 1: big bucks looking for a dough or November the tent somewhere, Uh,

1773
01:31:42,200 --> 01:31:45,960
Speaker 1: but maybe not, maybe not in Alabama, maybe not in Louisiana,

1774
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:50,080
Speaker 1: maybe not in South Carolina. So you know, it's difficult

1775
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:53,040
Speaker 1: down here. A big part of what it is is

1776
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:55,200
Speaker 1: you have so much food hit the ground all at once.

1777
01:31:55,240 --> 01:31:58,519
Speaker 1: You've got so many acorns and they're so widespread, and

1778
01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:02,120
Speaker 1: the deer scattered out a huge amount of cover. A

1779
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:05,160
Speaker 1: while that cover in pine wood there's evergreen cover, so

1780
01:32:05,479 --> 01:32:08,479
Speaker 1: good luck to you. And you can't bait in most

1781
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:10,160
Speaker 1: of these areas. Some of them you can, but not

1782
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:12,559
Speaker 1: all of them. So what are you going to do

1783
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:14,680
Speaker 1: to pull him into this one spot? I mean, you

1784
01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:18,200
Speaker 1: better have a really hot food plot. You better really

1785
01:32:18,439 --> 01:32:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, have some really uh you know, be be

1786
01:32:21,160 --> 01:32:24,240
Speaker 1: dialed in with trail cameras on exactly which trails a

1787
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:26,680
Speaker 1: big buck is using. If you had that advantage, you

1788
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:29,000
Speaker 1: know that you work for. I do think you'd have

1789
01:32:29,040 --> 01:32:31,000
Speaker 1: a fighting chance, but it's still going to be better

1790
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:33,360
Speaker 1: in general down here you should get later in the year.

1791
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:40,000
Speaker 1: Switching up questions just a little bit. You've been to

1792
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:43,120
Speaker 1: a lot of state, different states to hunt, and aside

1793
01:32:43,200 --> 01:32:46,559
Speaker 1: from your home state of Texas, do you have a

1794
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:53,400
Speaker 1: favorite state that you like to go hunting. Well, yeah,

1795
01:32:53,400 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 1: there's many places that I would you really love to

1796
01:32:57,720 --> 01:32:59,680
Speaker 1: just just hunt, you know, any time I got an

1797
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:03,320
Speaker 1: offer tunity, I have not hunted. If you talk to

1798
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:05,920
Speaker 1: most people that grew up in open country as I did,

1799
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:09,680
Speaker 1: most of those people feel somewhat coustrophobic as you get

1800
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:11,439
Speaker 1: into the woods. I mean, I'm kind of that way.

1801
01:33:11,439 --> 01:33:14,760
Speaker 1: I grew up in in Brushew hilly ranch country, where

1802
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:17,200
Speaker 1: if you saw a deer half mile way just went

1803
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:19,839
Speaker 1: over there and shot him, or try to shoot him. Uh.

1804
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:22,439
Speaker 1: You know, that's three farms away here in Georgia, you know,

1805
01:33:22,600 --> 01:33:25,559
Speaker 1: I mean, and it's all flat pine woods. So so

1806
01:33:25,640 --> 01:33:28,400
Speaker 1: there's certain kinds of habitat that I don't feel as

1807
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:32,920
Speaker 1: comfortable in and as proficient in, uh and in heavy

1808
01:33:33,160 --> 01:33:35,920
Speaker 1: bottom land, swamps and things of that nature. Not really

1809
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:39,240
Speaker 1: in my cup of tea. I've hundred New Brunswick. I've

1810
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 1: hunted Nova Scotia, you know, I've hunted a lot of places.

1811
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:44,320
Speaker 1: But some of that country is very good deer hunt

1812
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:47,040
Speaker 1: deer country, and but it is not particularly suited to

1813
01:33:47,160 --> 01:33:50,320
Speaker 1: my way. I like to hunt. Um. I like to

1814
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:52,200
Speaker 1: be able to get out on foot. I like to

1815
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:54,559
Speaker 1: be able to cover some ground. I like to be

1816
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:56,280
Speaker 1: able to find a good set up and then and

1817
01:33:56,280 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 1: then work that set up. And I like to have

1818
01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:00,080
Speaker 1: some roll to the land. I like to have a

1819
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 1: little bit of openness so I can kind of see

1820
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:05,000
Speaker 1: the land in three dimensions, because I don't want to

1821
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:07,040
Speaker 1: have to be living off my GPS to tell far

1822
01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:08,720
Speaker 1: I am. I'd like to just be able to get

1823
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:11,799
Speaker 1: out in the country and just kind of go. Now. Naturally,

1824
01:34:11,880 --> 01:34:14,040
Speaker 1: some type of some parts of the world don't lend

1825
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:16,920
Speaker 1: themselves of that at all. Uh, you know, good luck

1826
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:19,679
Speaker 1: in eastern North Carolina. You know, you can't see twenty

1827
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:22,719
Speaker 1: feet and it's all a swamp. However, if I get

1828
01:34:22,760 --> 01:34:26,879
Speaker 1: into central Montana, if I get into western South Dakota,

1829
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:30,800
Speaker 1: if I get into Texas Panhandle on up through really

1830
01:34:30,840 --> 01:34:34,439
Speaker 1: all up into North Dakota, all that country on the

1831
01:34:34,479 --> 01:34:38,760
Speaker 1: western Great Plains, I would say, in general, is a

1832
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:41,400
Speaker 1: little bit more my cup of tea. And that could

1833
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:43,639
Speaker 1: be from Texas all the way north clear up into

1834
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:46,920
Speaker 1: the prairie provinces of Alberta. But I do think some

1835
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:50,240
Speaker 1: of the more overlook stuff is really you know, western

1836
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:53,960
Speaker 1: Dakota's uh, you know, parts of Nebraska. They don't get

1837
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 1: talked about much, but man, that's that's some good deer

1838
01:34:57,120 --> 01:34:59,280
Speaker 1: country up there where your shot. Like I say, Dr

1839
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:02,600
Speaker 1: Crol and I will to you know, northeastern Wyoming and

1840
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:04,720
Speaker 1: you know last month and we sawt a couple of

1841
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:08,160
Speaker 1: beautiful deer up there, and that country is is very

1842
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:11,439
Speaker 1: scenic and productive. I just feel like that kind of

1843
01:35:11,479 --> 01:35:14,639
Speaker 1: country is what I enjoy hunting, regardless of what's there.

1844
01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:16,720
Speaker 1: But it also tends to have some really nice deer

1845
01:35:16,760 --> 01:35:20,240
Speaker 1: in it as well. Yeah, I just hunted Montana for

1846
01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:22,559
Speaker 1: the first time, which was my first western white tailed trip,

1847
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:26,240
Speaker 1: and that was just incredible, both as you mentioned, scenery

1848
01:35:26,280 --> 01:35:28,600
Speaker 1: and the actual deer and deer hunting element of it,

1849
01:35:29,120 --> 01:35:33,000
Speaker 1: um Man. I could see myself getting pretty quickly addicted

1850
01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:36,840
Speaker 1: to that hunting well. And the thing about it is

1851
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:39,439
Speaker 1: that you know, we understand, we're we're we're blessed to

1852
01:35:39,479 --> 01:35:41,600
Speaker 1: get the travel, and we understand that I've hunted. I

1853
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:44,400
Speaker 1: think I don't know if I've ever totally counted them up,

1854
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:46,880
Speaker 1: but I think I've hunted close to forty states and

1855
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:50,240
Speaker 1: provinces four white tails, and that you know, I have

1856
01:35:50,320 --> 01:35:52,680
Speaker 1: not hunted South America, but I've hunted been one of

1857
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:56,599
Speaker 1: hunter New Zealand, of Hunter Canada, Mexico, most of the US.

1858
01:35:56,720 --> 01:35:58,599
Speaker 1: I mean, at least been there long enough to say, hey,

1859
01:35:58,640 --> 01:36:01,040
Speaker 1: I was here, I see what the hunting here is like.

1860
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:02,960
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean I've shot deer in all those places,

1861
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:05,360
Speaker 1: but you know, I've gone out of my way to

1862
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:07,360
Speaker 1: go to a lot of places because I feel like

1863
01:36:07,439 --> 01:36:11,600
Speaker 1: that educates me and helps me understand what's relevant to

1864
01:36:11,640 --> 01:36:13,840
Speaker 1: a reader or two of you or the TV show.

1865
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:16,160
Speaker 1: So I look at that as you know, it's a

1866
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:18,360
Speaker 1: I won't say as a job, but it or a duty.

1867
01:36:18,439 --> 01:36:22,000
Speaker 1: But it is certainly helped me to come up with

1868
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:24,760
Speaker 1: what I think is relevant content because I see what

1869
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:27,680
Speaker 1: people have to deal with here in Georgia. George is

1870
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:29,559
Speaker 1: hard state to hunt, but they have some big deer.

1871
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:33,240
Speaker 1: None of less, it's hard state to hunt. You know, Kentucky.

1872
01:36:33,320 --> 01:36:35,439
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to go to Kentucky. Kentucky is not the

1873
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:38,920
Speaker 1: easiest state to hunt, but they do have big deer um.

1874
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:41,639
Speaker 1: You know, some of those parts of northwestern Montana, Idaho,

1875
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:44,000
Speaker 1: eastern Washington. A lot of that country up and there

1876
01:36:44,080 --> 01:36:46,800
Speaker 1: is beautiful and has big deer. But the deer don't

1877
01:36:46,840 --> 01:36:48,720
Speaker 1: just run out and say here, I am shooting me.

1878
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:51,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, big deer hard to kill pretty

1879
01:36:51,120 --> 01:36:55,200
Speaker 1: much wherever you go. But I would say that clearly.

1880
01:36:55,320 --> 01:36:57,599
Speaker 1: You know, some places are hot spots for a reason.

1881
01:36:57,680 --> 01:37:00,800
Speaker 1: They just got more big deer. The regulation and that

1882
01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:05,120
Speaker 1: season timing, the weapon restrictions, whatever, they just make it

1883
01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 1: easier to kill. And that's why we tend to think

1884
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:09,960
Speaker 1: of those as the hotspots. But you know, a great

1885
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:13,880
Speaker 1: deer hunting probably can be had almost anywhere you have deer,

1886
01:37:14,360 --> 01:37:16,559
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's what we make of it. It's it's

1887
01:37:17,160 --> 01:37:20,559
Speaker 1: our expectations have to be tempered, what's realistic, and if

1888
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:23,720
Speaker 1: they're not, then we're quite often going to find ourselves frustrated.

1889
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:25,280
Speaker 1: I don't care if you're in the business or not.

1890
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:27,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you're not going to shoot what's not there.

1891
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:29,559
Speaker 1: And if you don't give yourself a fighting chance to

1892
01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:32,080
Speaker 1: stay there long enough to kill one figure one out,

1893
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:34,680
Speaker 1: your chances aren't very good either. I don't care how

1894
01:37:34,680 --> 01:37:38,479
Speaker 1: good the place is. So so every situation has its

1895
01:37:38,479 --> 01:37:41,200
Speaker 1: own challenges. Is just that some have a much greater

1896
01:37:41,280 --> 01:37:44,679
Speaker 1: payoff than others. Yeah, yeah, that's that's such great advice there.

1897
01:37:46,280 --> 01:37:48,200
Speaker 1: I got a question and it kind of it kind

1898
01:37:48,200 --> 01:37:51,559
Speaker 1: of goes back to your profession of of being a writer.

1899
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:57,759
Speaker 1: When when you do write an article about maybe strategy

1900
01:37:57,920 --> 01:38:02,920
Speaker 1: or um of we're hunting in general, how do you

1901
01:38:03,160 --> 01:38:07,280
Speaker 1: how do you approach your writing that will allow someone

1902
01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:10,040
Speaker 1: from Texas or someone from New England or someone from

1903
01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:13,439
Speaker 1: the Dakotas to all read it and maybe take something

1904
01:38:13,439 --> 01:38:17,080
Speaker 1: away from that. Well, I don't know that there is

1905
01:38:17,120 --> 01:38:20,920
Speaker 1: any universal advice that equally applies. I guess if if

1906
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:23,519
Speaker 1: every article started with go where there's a lot of

1907
01:38:23,560 --> 01:38:26,080
Speaker 1: big deer hunt a lot and be able to shoot.

1908
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:30,360
Speaker 1: You know. In fact, I've said that in seminars before.

1909
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:32,280
Speaker 1: I said, look, I can tell you in ten seconds

1910
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:34,400
Speaker 1: you know how to kill big deer, and said, now

1911
01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:36,519
Speaker 1: I'm going to spend the next fifty nine minutes and

1912
01:38:36,520 --> 01:38:39,760
Speaker 1: fifty seconds explaining what I just said in ten seconds.

1913
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:44,320
Speaker 1: But that the reality of it is is that you're

1914
01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:46,959
Speaker 1: always and that's that's part of the advantage of traveling

1915
01:38:47,160 --> 01:38:49,639
Speaker 1: now anymore, we all feel like we get to travel

1916
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:53,040
Speaker 1: because if we stay on Facebook or Instagram or whatever

1917
01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:57,160
Speaker 1: long enough, or watching enough outdoor TV or read the magazines,

1918
01:38:57,200 --> 01:38:59,080
Speaker 1: will feel like we just went on a world tour

1919
01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:03,200
Speaker 1: every time we every half hour and and maybe just so,

1920
01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:06,479
Speaker 1: in some ways, the world has gotten smaller UM, and

1921
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:09,559
Speaker 1: people that don't even hunt outside of their home county ever,

1922
01:39:10,160 --> 01:39:12,280
Speaker 1: may feel like they know what it's like to hunt

1923
01:39:12,280 --> 01:39:16,600
Speaker 1: in Illinois or Alberta or or Florida because they've just

1924
01:39:16,640 --> 01:39:18,960
Speaker 1: been exposed to it now, which is a good which

1925
01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:20,800
Speaker 1: is a very good thing. I think that's I think

1926
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:23,840
Speaker 1: that's great. People enjoy doing that. UM. But when it

1927
01:39:23,840 --> 01:39:26,120
Speaker 1: comes time to talk about what really works in all

1928
01:39:26,160 --> 01:39:31,200
Speaker 1: these places, there is no universal tactic that I could say, oh,

1929
01:39:31,320 --> 01:39:33,280
Speaker 1: just this is the magic being. I mean, all you

1930
01:39:33,360 --> 01:39:35,479
Speaker 1: gotta do is either plant this and you know and

1931
01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:38,120
Speaker 1: get your gun ready, or you gotta rattle a certain

1932
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:40,960
Speaker 1: way and here they come, or you know, if you

1933
01:39:41,080 --> 01:39:44,000
Speaker 1: use this scent or this cameo or whatever else. I

1934
01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:45,760
Speaker 1: think I think most of us are smart enough to

1935
01:39:45,760 --> 01:39:49,479
Speaker 1: know that there's a lot of different ways to kill deer. Okay,

1936
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:53,160
Speaker 1: and not everybody in the same area that successful uses

1937
01:39:53,200 --> 01:39:57,160
Speaker 1: the same equipment or hunts in the same way. But

1938
01:39:57,360 --> 01:40:00,280
Speaker 1: they may all kill for knife deer occasionally, well that

1939
01:40:00,280 --> 01:40:02,960
Speaker 1: that's because myths deer lived there, you know. But but

1940
01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:04,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean it just cause you kill one big

1941
01:40:04,920 --> 01:40:07,240
Speaker 1: deer one time in your life that that you even

1942
01:40:07,320 --> 01:40:09,559
Speaker 1: hunted the best way that day. Maybe you killed him

1943
01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:12,920
Speaker 1: despite yourself, you know. So so sometimes I think we

1944
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:17,760
Speaker 1: have to take these individual, isolated cases of success and

1945
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:20,719
Speaker 1: be and be honest with ourselves about it and say, look,

1946
01:40:21,320 --> 01:40:23,760
Speaker 1: you know this was you know, just cause some and

1947
01:40:23,840 --> 01:40:25,680
Speaker 1: so kill a big one doesn't mean that everybody needs

1948
01:40:25,720 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 1: to hunt the way he did. So I take all

1949
01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:31,800
Speaker 1: of these, you know, monka buck kills to some extent

1950
01:40:31,840 --> 01:40:33,880
Speaker 1: with a grain of salt. I mean, I know most

1951
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:36,000
Speaker 1: of the guys that kill most of the very biggest

1952
01:40:36,040 --> 01:40:38,800
Speaker 1: deer they have ever been documented, at least that we

1953
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:40,960
Speaker 1: can identify the hunter. I know most of the guys,

1954
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:45,200
Speaker 1: and very few of them are Daniel Boone. Okay. They

1955
01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:46,760
Speaker 1: were in the right place, right time to kill a

1956
01:40:46,760 --> 01:40:49,280
Speaker 1: great deer, and they made it happen. They didn't blow

1957
01:40:49,320 --> 01:40:51,360
Speaker 1: it when he when he came out, they shot him.

1958
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:54,600
Speaker 1: They got him killed. Okay, so good for them. But

1959
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:57,679
Speaker 1: most of them don't put themselves forth as Daniel Boone either.

1960
01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:01,880
Speaker 1: They just say, look, you know, I did what seemed

1961
01:41:01,880 --> 01:41:03,680
Speaker 1: to work, and one day it was magic and it

1962
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:06,920
Speaker 1: was my turn. Okay. So so when I look at

1963
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:10,320
Speaker 1: my own tactical approach, I say, what the first thing

1964
01:41:10,360 --> 01:41:12,920
Speaker 1: I want to do is look for common denominators. I

1965
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:14,880
Speaker 1: wrote an article a few years ago in fact, is

1966
01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:17,040
Speaker 1: that I think it's a good example of this. I

1967
01:41:17,080 --> 01:41:19,120
Speaker 1: look back at one season and I said, you know,

1968
01:41:19,120 --> 01:41:24,280
Speaker 1: in the last year, I killed four or five mature

1969
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:27,679
Speaker 1: bucks on food plots or right next to food plots

1970
01:41:27,720 --> 01:41:31,120
Speaker 1: in the morning. Now, most people would say that can't

1971
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:34,000
Speaker 1: be done. Okay, you can't. At no point, even hunting

1972
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:36,400
Speaker 1: the food plot in the morning. However, I killed almost

1973
01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:40,000
Speaker 1: all these deer around the rut. And my take on it,

1974
01:41:40,080 --> 01:41:42,439
Speaker 1: whether I kill one, I kill one in Maryland, I

1975
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:46,320
Speaker 1: kill one in South Dakota, I kill one in Wyoming,

1976
01:41:46,640 --> 01:41:49,800
Speaker 1: another one in Texas, another one in Kansas. I think

1977
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:52,960
Speaker 1: that was it. And one year I killed mature bucks

1978
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:55,360
Speaker 1: on food plots and all those places hunting in the morning.

1979
01:41:56,160 --> 01:41:58,439
Speaker 1: And most people would say that's a lifetime of morning

1980
01:41:58,479 --> 01:42:02,200
Speaker 1: food plot success. And I at it in like two months. Okay,

1981
01:42:02,400 --> 01:42:04,280
Speaker 1: now I'm not saying I did that, cause I'm Daniel

1982
01:42:04,280 --> 01:42:06,840
Speaker 1: Boone either, but I am saying that when I saw

1983
01:42:06,920 --> 01:42:10,439
Speaker 1: that pattern evolving in front of my eyes, I said,

1984
01:42:10,479 --> 01:42:12,960
Speaker 1: you know, there might be an article here. And what

1985
01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:14,680
Speaker 1: made me think it was an article is not that

1986
01:42:14,720 --> 01:42:18,120
Speaker 1: it was just one isolated, oddball incident of killing a

1987
01:42:18,240 --> 01:42:22,360
Speaker 1: nice beer. But in three different time zones over two months,

1988
01:42:23,160 --> 01:42:26,880
Speaker 1: you know, halfway across the continent, the same pattern held.

1989
01:42:27,080 --> 01:42:29,280
Speaker 1: And so I said, look, there may be something to

1990
01:42:29,439 --> 01:42:31,320
Speaker 1: this pattern. And here's what I think there is to

1991
01:42:31,400 --> 01:42:33,920
Speaker 1: the pattern. And I talked about the fact that running

1992
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:37,240
Speaker 1: activity bucks coming back to circle back to food feeding

1993
01:42:37,240 --> 01:42:40,040
Speaker 1: areas in mid to late morning sometime looking for that

1994
01:42:40,160 --> 01:42:44,120
Speaker 1: last though, h etcetera, etcetera, And these were this all

1995
01:42:44,240 --> 01:42:47,840
Speaker 1: played into my success that one year. Um, And I

1996
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:49,880
Speaker 1: didn't say, look, you can do this anytime you want to.

1997
01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:52,280
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, look, in one year, I saw this

1998
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:55,000
Speaker 1: happen in a wide variety of situations, and these I

1999
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:58,120
Speaker 1: think with the common denominators. So to me, that's the

2000
01:42:58,320 --> 01:43:02,160
Speaker 1: essence of the advantage of travel and the advantage of

2001
01:43:02,160 --> 01:43:04,880
Speaker 1: seeing all these different habitats is sometimes you do get

2002
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:09,160
Speaker 1: to compare and contrast in fairly short order one place

2003
01:43:09,240 --> 01:43:11,960
Speaker 1: sources another, and you do see what the common thread

2004
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:15,320
Speaker 1: seems to be of either success or failure. If you

2005
01:43:15,360 --> 01:43:18,160
Speaker 1: can do that, you might can help somebody that's hunting

2006
01:43:18,160 --> 01:43:20,599
Speaker 1: in one of those kind of places. And again you're

2007
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:22,760
Speaker 1: talking about a number of different habitats and number of

2008
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:28,639
Speaker 1: different latter cudes and launch cues. So then we're coming

2009
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:30,160
Speaker 1: up on time here, Gordon. So I want to ask

2010
01:43:30,160 --> 01:43:32,439
Speaker 1: you one final question, and I want to kind of

2011
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:36,240
Speaker 1: push you to answer the impossible as you just described that.

2012
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:38,880
Speaker 1: You know, there's so many different ways that people can

2013
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:41,240
Speaker 1: go about it. There's so many different things across all

2014
01:43:41,280 --> 01:43:45,920
Speaker 1: these different locations. But just hypothetically We've got a reader

2015
01:43:45,960 --> 01:43:48,640
Speaker 1: of North American Whitetail magazine who's hunted his whole his

2016
01:43:48,760 --> 01:43:51,920
Speaker 1: or her life, reading these stories, seeing these great big bucks,

2017
01:43:52,560 --> 01:43:55,680
Speaker 1: and they still haven't got it done. They've not been

2018
01:43:55,720 --> 01:43:57,759
Speaker 1: able to kill whatever it is that they're trying to shoot.

2019
01:43:58,000 --> 01:44:02,639
Speaker 1: So for this person, it wants to take that jump

2020
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:05,360
Speaker 1: to now be targeting and actually successfully killing let's say

2021
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:08,680
Speaker 1: the top ten of bucks in their area, so it's

2022
01:44:08,760 --> 01:44:12,880
Speaker 1: relative to where they're at. Is there one common dominator

2023
01:44:13,080 --> 01:44:15,240
Speaker 1: you could share, one common concept that no matter if

2024
01:44:15,240 --> 01:44:19,200
Speaker 1: you're hunting in Texas or Maine or Iowa or Michigan,

2025
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:22,200
Speaker 1: is there one concept or a couple of concepts that

2026
01:44:22,280 --> 01:44:25,920
Speaker 1: you could share that could help that person make that

2027
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:30,520
Speaker 1: next step up. Well, if if I make the assumption

2028
01:44:30,600 --> 01:44:33,880
Speaker 1: that the person will cash in on their opportunity when

2029
01:44:33,920 --> 01:44:36,439
Speaker 1: they get it, that what's not holding them back is

2030
01:44:36,479 --> 01:44:39,479
Speaker 1: the inability to shoot or to hold it together under pressure,

2031
01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:41,880
Speaker 1: But they just are not getting the opportunity. If that's

2032
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:45,080
Speaker 1: if that's what's holding them back, you know, the one

2033
01:44:45,120 --> 01:44:47,000
Speaker 1: thing I would tell you is you have to be

2034
01:44:47,160 --> 01:44:51,840
Speaker 1: sure that what you're hunting is where you hunt. I mean,

2035
01:44:51,880 --> 01:44:54,479
Speaker 1: if you say that you know I'm just I'm a failure.

2036
01:44:54,479 --> 01:44:58,040
Speaker 1: I haven't killed at one fifty here in Georgia. Most

2037
01:44:58,080 --> 01:45:00,240
Speaker 1: guys in Georgia I don't care. And there's some lers

2038
01:45:00,240 --> 01:45:02,479
Speaker 1: here in Georgia they just there's not a one fifty

2039
01:45:02,479 --> 01:45:06,559
Speaker 1: where they hunt. Okay, So you have to and sometimes

2040
01:45:06,560 --> 01:45:09,880
Speaker 1: that means breaking away from where you your comfort zone.

2041
01:45:10,280 --> 01:45:12,080
Speaker 1: I think that's one thing that a lot of guys

2042
01:45:12,160 --> 01:45:16,000
Speaker 1: are unwilling to do because of whatever the scenario. They

2043
01:45:16,080 --> 01:45:18,720
Speaker 1: just feel like, well, this is my hunting club. I've

2044
01:45:18,720 --> 01:45:20,559
Speaker 1: been a member here for so long. I don't want

2045
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:22,000
Speaker 1: to find a new club. I don't want to go

2046
01:45:22,080 --> 01:45:23,679
Speaker 1: to a new place. I don't want to quit hunting

2047
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:25,519
Speaker 1: with Jerry, even though he smokes in the truck on

2048
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:27,680
Speaker 1: the way up to the woods. I used, buddy, it's

2049
01:45:27,720 --> 01:45:30,200
Speaker 1: my brother in law Kent. You know, at some point

2050
01:45:30,240 --> 01:45:33,439
Speaker 1: you have to just weigh what's holding you back and

2051
01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:35,880
Speaker 1: if you really feel like, hey, there's one thing holding

2052
01:45:35,920 --> 01:45:37,599
Speaker 1: me back. The one thing we know is that if

2053
01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:40,080
Speaker 1: we keep doing what we've been doing in the same places,

2054
01:45:40,160 --> 01:45:42,200
Speaker 1: the chances are we're gonna get the same results. Right,

2055
01:45:42,680 --> 01:45:45,599
Speaker 1: So we've got to try something new, and sometimes new

2056
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:48,639
Speaker 1: is it will scare people. You know, I don't want

2057
01:45:48,680 --> 01:45:50,400
Speaker 1: to go look for more land to hunt on. I

2058
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:52,519
Speaker 1: don't want to go knock on doors. I don't want

2059
01:45:52,520 --> 01:45:55,280
Speaker 1: to do blah blah blah blah blah. Well, sometimes you

2060
01:45:55,360 --> 01:45:57,760
Speaker 1: just have the man up and say, you know, if it,

2061
01:45:57,880 --> 01:46:00,200
Speaker 1: if it means that much to me, I gotta what

2062
01:46:00,280 --> 01:46:02,280
Speaker 1: it takes to break out of the mold. And the

2063
01:46:02,360 --> 01:46:05,120
Speaker 1: mold is probably holding you back in ways you don't understand.

2064
01:46:05,800 --> 01:46:08,840
Speaker 1: So I really think sometimes you just have to say, man,

2065
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:10,680
Speaker 1: I gotta be a lone wolf. I gotta go do

2066
01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:13,160
Speaker 1: it my way. I gotta hunt harder. I can't let

2067
01:46:13,200 --> 01:46:15,200
Speaker 1: my brother in law hold me back. I gotta go.

2068
01:46:15,920 --> 01:46:19,400
Speaker 1: I gotta push the envelope harder. And you know, and

2069
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:22,240
Speaker 1: then but still hunting really really smart and be disciplined.

2070
01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:25,439
Speaker 1: I think if you do that in good country, you're

2071
01:46:25,439 --> 01:46:28,559
Speaker 1: gonna get a chance. Now what the deer is and

2072
01:46:28,600 --> 01:46:31,040
Speaker 1: as he busted up when he walks by, you know,

2073
01:46:31,080 --> 01:46:32,960
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, as he stopped behind a tree and

2074
01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:35,040
Speaker 1: you can't shoot him. I don't know, you know, those

2075
01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:37,000
Speaker 1: things happen, But I do know if you put yourself

2076
01:46:37,040 --> 01:46:40,200
Speaker 1: in close proximity to a mature deer, you've got a

2077
01:46:40,200 --> 01:46:43,080
Speaker 1: better chance than if you don't. And if you just

2078
01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:45,840
Speaker 1: if you'll just break free of what's been holding your

2079
01:46:45,840 --> 01:46:50,519
Speaker 1: back in some cases psychologically, but but often its location. Uh,

2080
01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:52,960
Speaker 1: you just got a better chance. I am twice as

2081
01:46:53,040 --> 01:46:55,960
Speaker 1: good a trophy hunter where there are twice as many

2082
01:46:56,040 --> 01:46:59,120
Speaker 1: big deer. I know that. That's the one thing I

2083
01:46:59,160 --> 01:47:02,280
Speaker 1: know about sophy. I am. I am just better when

2084
01:47:02,320 --> 01:47:05,840
Speaker 1: there's more to shoot, and so go where they are,

2085
01:47:06,120 --> 01:47:08,879
Speaker 1: and if they're not where you are, either grow them

2086
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:11,880
Speaker 1: or go somewhere else. Those the things that in the

2087
01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:15,120
Speaker 1: end you'll be glad you did. Yeah, I can't argue

2088
01:47:15,120 --> 01:47:17,240
Speaker 1: with that. And I really like your advice when it

2089
01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:19,960
Speaker 1: comes to just breaking out of the mold. Um. That's

2090
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:22,080
Speaker 1: one of those things that I think, even if you're

2091
01:47:22,200 --> 01:47:25,000
Speaker 1: stuck in the same spot, even let's just say hypothetically,

2092
01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:27,000
Speaker 1: for whatever reason you only have this one place to hunt,

2093
01:47:27,040 --> 01:47:30,600
Speaker 1: even if you just totally look in new ways of

2094
01:47:30,640 --> 01:47:33,760
Speaker 1: going about things, you're gonna learn something new. You're going

2095
01:47:33,840 --> 01:47:36,080
Speaker 1: to break out of the same patterns that maybe your

2096
01:47:36,080 --> 01:47:39,200
Speaker 1: local deer have patterned you on. I mean, there's some inherent,

2097
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:43,719
Speaker 1: immediate benefits to just breaking outside of the daily routine,

2098
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:46,400
Speaker 1: trying new things. Um, I think that's a that's a

2099
01:47:46,439 --> 01:47:47,880
Speaker 1: great thing for all of us to try to do

2100
01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:50,200
Speaker 1: a little bit more, because it is really easy and

2101
01:47:50,280 --> 01:47:53,360
Speaker 1: comfortable to stick with the same old, same old. I

2102
01:47:53,400 --> 01:47:56,880
Speaker 1: think all of us probably fall into that sometimes. So, Gordon,

2103
01:47:56,960 --> 01:47:58,840
Speaker 1: this has been This has been a lot of fun,

2104
01:47:58,840 --> 01:48:02,120
Speaker 1: it's been interesting. Um, some different perspectives here that I

2105
01:48:02,160 --> 01:48:03,960
Speaker 1: think are really helpful for us to hear about. So

2106
01:48:04,040 --> 01:48:06,639
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing all that. And then if people

2107
01:48:06,680 --> 01:48:09,519
Speaker 1: want to learn more about what's going on with North

2108
01:48:09,560 --> 01:48:12,080
Speaker 1: American White Tail the magazine or the website or the

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01:48:12,080 --> 01:48:14,280
Speaker 1: TV show or anything like that, where where can they

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01:48:14,320 --> 01:48:17,599
Speaker 1: go to to get that? Well, the simplest place would

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Speaker 1: be North American Whitetail dot com. We certainly you know.

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Speaker 1: Obviously the magazine is out there on newsstands and most

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01:48:25,040 --> 01:48:27,960
Speaker 1: people subscribe to it of our readership, And obviously the

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01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:31,360
Speaker 1: TV shows itself is on Sportsman Channel several times a week.

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Speaker 1: So wherever you find us, we welcome you and I

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01:48:34,640 --> 01:48:39,120
Speaker 1: hope everybody has a fantastic season. Awesome. Well, thank you, Gordon,

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Speaker 1: and we wish you the best of the luck of

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01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:43,519
Speaker 1: the rest of your hunts too. Thanks so much guys

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Speaker 1: have a good one too, and with that we are

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Speaker 1: going to shut this one down, so thank you all

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01:48:50,400 --> 01:48:53,000
Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. And before we go, of course,

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Speaker 1: we do need to thank our partners who helped make

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Speaker 1: this podcast possible. So big thank you to sit Gear,

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01:48:57,760 --> 01:49:02,680
Speaker 1: Redneck Blinds, Hunter Ta Maps, Yetie Coolers, Ozonics, Carbon Express,

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01:49:02,760 --> 01:49:06,440
Speaker 1: Maven Optics, and the White Tailed Institute of North America.

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Speaker 1: Also little uh, I guess favor to ask. I suppose

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Speaker 1: if you haven't yet, if you could give us a

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01:49:12,520 --> 01:49:16,000
Speaker 1: rating or review on iTunes. That is a huge, huge, huge,

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Speaker 1: massive help. It takes like thirty seconds to a minute,

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01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:21,000
Speaker 1: and we'd love to hear an honest review from you.

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01:49:21,240 --> 01:49:25,040
Speaker 1: Same thing goes for the Wild podcast, which we're continuing

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01:49:25,080 --> 01:49:27,360
Speaker 1: to produce. Is our Q and a shorter form show

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01:49:27,400 --> 01:49:29,880
Speaker 1: with the guys over at Drury Outdoors and they've really

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01:49:29,880 --> 01:49:31,960
Speaker 1: been having some good ones lately, so be sure to

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01:49:32,040 --> 01:49:33,920
Speaker 1: check that out and if you have any feedback, we'd

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01:49:33,960 --> 01:49:37,599
Speaker 1: love to see your review too. All that said, thank

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Speaker 1: you again for joining us today. I hope you enjoyed

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Speaker 1: this conversation with Gordon. I hope your hunts are going well,

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Speaker 1: and I hope you will stay wired to hunt,