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Speaker 1: Pushkin Before we get started, let's talk about Pushkin Plus.

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Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus is a subscription podcast program available on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Members will get access to exclusive bonus content like my

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Speaker 1: weekly bookmarks, where I talk about how I got a

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Speaker 1: book agent and what I'm watching on TV that week.

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Speaker 1: You'll get uninterrupted listening to many of your favorite podcasts

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Speaker 1: like Revisionous History, Cautionary Tales, and The Happiness Lab. Sign

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Speaker 1: up for Pushkin Plus on the show page in Apple

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Speaker 1: podcast or at pushkin dot Fm. For me, it brings

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Speaker 1: me so much joy to have written. Not when I'm writing,

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Speaker 1: but to have written is joyful for me. And in

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Speaker 1: order to get to that joy, I have to write.

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Speaker 1: Writing is hard work, and when you become as successful

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Speaker 1: a writer as Jacqueline Woodson, there is a whole new

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Speaker 1: level of noise and distraction that seeps in. So how

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Speaker 1: do you settle down and just write? Welcome to Well

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Speaker 1: Read Black Girl, the literary kickback you didn't know you

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Speaker 1: need it. I'm your host, Glory Adam. Each week I

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Speaker 1: sit in conversation with one of my favorite authors. We

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Speaker 1: talk about the craft of writing and of course, what

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Speaker 1: it means to be well bred. Jacqueline Woodson is a

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Speaker 1: literary rock star. She's an award winning author, has written

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Speaker 1: over thirty books for adults and children, and in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: she even nabbed the MacArthur Genius Award. She also writes

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Speaker 1: screenplays screen plays. Jacqueline turned her book Miracles Boys into

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Speaker 1: a TV mini series and it is currently working on

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Speaker 1: a screenplay for another one of her books. Among her

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Speaker 1: many accomplishments, one near and dear to my heart is

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Speaker 1: Baldwin for the Arts, a residency program that Jacqueline founded

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Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen. This residency gives artists a space to

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Speaker 1: just slow down and focus on their craft. It's a

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Speaker 1: real gift to be able to give that time and

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Speaker 1: space to writers, and I'm happy to say that I'm

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Speaker 1: on the board of that organization. We touch on all

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Speaker 1: these things in our conversation today, including her latest fuck.

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Speaker 1: It's a picture book for kids that came out earlier

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Speaker 1: this year, and it's called The Year We Learned to Fly.

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Speaker 1: Jacqueline and I were able to have such a great

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Speaker 1: conversation about her book's exploration of mindfulness for children and

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Speaker 1: the need for escape. I plan to read it to

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Speaker 1: my little boy, Zeek. How are you doing, How are

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Speaker 1: you feeling good? It's so good to see you, Glory.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about your new book, and like

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Speaker 1: how you keep turning them out, like every time you

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Speaker 1: write a new book. It is just so phenomenal and

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Speaker 1: well done. And I just got my copy. I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to read it to Zeek. He might try to

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Speaker 1: eat the pages, but I think you will understand the

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Speaker 1: concept of being free and flying and being your fullest self.

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Speaker 1: What made you write this new book and what inspired you?

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Speaker 1: The crazy thing about it is I keep saying, you

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Speaker 1: know what, I need to stop writing because I started

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Speaker 1: it before the pandemic, right, and I started in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: and I was thinking about the way kids get put

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Speaker 1: in time outs, the way they feel it, the sense

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Speaker 1: of powerlessness, and the sense that their physical bodies aren't

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Speaker 1: their own, because we get to say, take that physical

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Speaker 1: body to school, take that physical body to bed, take

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Speaker 1: that physical body up to your room, and think about

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Speaker 1: what you just said. And so I started thinking about

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Speaker 1: how the thing we can control is our mind and

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Speaker 1: what happens inside it. And then I was writing it

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Speaker 1: and trying to think of it in the moment. But

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Speaker 1: I can never think of stuff like just in the moment,

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Speaker 1: because we don't live in the moment. We live in

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Speaker 1: this history. And so then I went back and read

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Speaker 1: The People Could Fly because that was such a story

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Speaker 1: I had loved forever, Virginia Hamilton's book, and thinking about

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Speaker 1: our ancestors and the way they had to escape using

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Speaker 1: their minds. And I had read The Water Dancer by

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Speaker 1: Tanahasi Coats and it just all started coming together, and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about gape and the power and

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Speaker 1: the psyche, and then we got locked down. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is timely in a very scary way. But by

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Speaker 1: that time I had pretty much finished writing. It was

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Speaker 1: a little freaky for me to be like, oh, here

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Speaker 1: are my characters and they're stuck in some space, and

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Speaker 1: here's the world, and we're stuck in a space. But

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Speaker 1: it was bananas. I was talking to Raphael Lopez, who's

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Speaker 1: the illustrator, about it, and it was interesting because you

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Speaker 1: look at the illustrations and no one has on a mask,

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Speaker 1: right because it was before the pandemic, and I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about what's going to happen to picture books from this

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Speaker 1: moment on, like, well, kids look at them and see

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Speaker 1: maskless people and say, is this an old timey book

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Speaker 1: right right? This is our new reality? It's yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: wild to think about that. It's so wild. But I

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Speaker 1: love the fact that you are so intentional about mindfulness

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Speaker 1: for young people, for children, for little people that are

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Speaker 1: just trying to come into themselves, because I don't think

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Speaker 1: I really started meditating or had a really clear concept

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Speaker 1: of that and to adulthood. You know, I've read all

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Speaker 1: your books, and I love Brown Girl Dreaming, and I

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Speaker 1: think the one thing that stood out for me when

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Speaker 1: I opened the book is the family tree, the fact

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Speaker 1: that we get to know who your people are before

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Speaker 1: we even start to go into the beautiful story. And

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Speaker 1: I'm really curious to learn more about your family and

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Speaker 1: how your family helped you become the person you are today.

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Speaker 1: Can you share what you like your first childhood memory

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Speaker 1: of books were or just reading anything. Oh, that's such

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Speaker 1: a great question. I'm trying to think my earliest memory.

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Speaker 1: I have to say that the first time a story

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Speaker 1: struck me in the gut was The Little match Girl

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Speaker 1: by Hans Christian Anderson. And the fact that it was

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Speaker 1: the first time I read a book where a character

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Speaker 1: died at the end, and I was like, wait, where's

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Speaker 1: the happily ever after, Like turning the page and like, wait,

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Speaker 1: it's not supposed to end this way, and being devastated

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Speaker 1: because I felt like I had been taught to believe

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Speaker 1: that fiction always had a happy ending, right, because you

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Speaker 1: start with the fairy tales, then you go to the

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Speaker 1: parable the fables, and then here was this book where

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Speaker 1: this girl, this child who was young like me, hadn't survived.

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Speaker 1: And I had not known any young people who died, thankfully,

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Speaker 1: but that really kind of struck a chor with me

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Speaker 1: and really made me think about not only looking back

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Speaker 1: on it, fiction and writing and the way stories get told,

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Speaker 1: but also social justice, because it just felt so wrong

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Speaker 1: that a child would be homeless, that a child would

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Speaker 1: be without family, that a child would have to be

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Speaker 1: in the streets selling matches and trying to make a

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Speaker 1: living for themselves and not having someone to take care

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Speaker 1: of them, That a child would die of neglect. So

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Speaker 1: all of those things really puzzled me and angered me.

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Speaker 1: And of course a first step toward activism is rage, right,

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Speaker 1: and a desire to change things. I also think that

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Speaker 1: there's something to be said about this slow and steady

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Speaker 1: growth as an artist, as a writer, as a person

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Speaker 1: in general. And you have been very vocal about even

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Speaker 1: how you read. You know, you've mentioned before that you

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Speaker 1: can be a slow reader, and very intentional about that.

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Speaker 1: What do you think you've gained from taking your time

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Speaker 1: with things? How has that like influenced how you just

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Speaker 1: like move in the world, and how you even write

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Speaker 1: and revise. It's such a journey, and it's one that

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Speaker 1: I've always been on as a slow reader, as someone

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Speaker 1: who's always thought, if I do this, then this is

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Speaker 1: going to happen, and then I'm going to need to

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Speaker 1: do this. I need to follow through with that not

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Speaker 1: so much like a game of chess, but contemplative. So

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Speaker 1: I think that I've always written that way. And when

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Speaker 1: I see writers who are thinking, Okay, I finished this book,

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Speaker 1: We'll have ten other people read it. Have you revised

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Speaker 1: it ten times? Have you read it out loud to

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Speaker 1: see what it sounds like? What has the character wanted

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Speaker 1: and how have they gotten it? Has that been answered?

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Speaker 1: What about you know, the non primary characters? And then

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Speaker 1: next thing is like, well, how come such and such

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Speaker 1: got a big advance and I didn't get a big

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Speaker 1: advance and all of those things that when I was

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Speaker 1: coming up, I was like, yeah, I get an advance.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea what anyone else got because I

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Speaker 1: don't have the internet, right, it hasn't been invented yet,

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Speaker 1: so so it is a different time. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's because I'm older. Let the world feels

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Speaker 1: so much noisier now and there's so many more ways

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Speaker 1: to procrastinate, right. I started out in the eighties on

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Speaker 1: a typewriter, and so there was no distraction. There was

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Speaker 1: no phone to pick up unless I was picking up

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Speaker 1: the phone that was plugged into the wall and calling someone.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like, oh I'm stuck at a place, let

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Speaker 1: me go online shop or let me go check my

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Speaker 1: Twitter account or Instagram. That didn't exist. So it's like, okay, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: all you got are these words in front of you,

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Speaker 1: and if you don't do something with them, they're going

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Speaker 1: to still be in front of you unfinished. I think

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Speaker 1: we are bombarded with so much noise and the mindfulness

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Speaker 1: the slowing down to be more quiet and subdued, and

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Speaker 1: just like relaxing into our bodies. How would you like

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Speaker 1: advise or recommend people do that? I mean the obvious thing,

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Speaker 1: we can go to residency of state, you know, But

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Speaker 1: for a new writer that may not have those tools yet,

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Speaker 1: how can you like build your practice of like quieting

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Speaker 1: down and just like being focused on the writing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when I first went to mcdell, you know, it was

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Speaker 1: it was before cell phones. You got to your cabin,

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Speaker 1: you had nothing. Nothing was happening there except the windows

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Speaker 1: and the deer outside, and your table and your typewriter

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Speaker 1: are your laptop and your printer. Actually I didn't even

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Speaker 1: have a printer. I would go back to the main

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Speaker 1: house to print, and that would be a reason for

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Speaker 1: me to leave my studio. But they would bring a

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Speaker 1: basket lunch to your door when you were ready to

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Speaker 1: go outside. You get your lunch, you eat, and keep

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Speaker 1: on writing until the dinner bell rang at six pm.

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Speaker 1: And what they wanted was at six pm all the

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Speaker 1: artists to stop working. And this was the time to

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Speaker 1: engage with the visual artists and the composers and the

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Speaker 1: other writers, and it was a time to talk about

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Speaker 1: art and then people would do performances. People were deliberate

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Speaker 1: about how they were going to engage with their work

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Speaker 1: and their art. And that's how I learned it, and

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Speaker 1: I think now that's a mindset can be built by

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Speaker 1: young artists, right, So be deliberate about it. Say from

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Speaker 1: eight to twelve or whatever those hours are, I'm plugged.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get any text from anyone. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to leave my phone off or in a different room,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to turn on some program to not

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Speaker 1: let anything come through my computer and just be very

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Speaker 1: deliberate about letting the people come, right, because the characters

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Speaker 1: aren't going to come to you. If there's a sale

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Speaker 1: at Bloomingdale and whatever that's happening, that's going to keep

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Speaker 1: you from having the voices that become the fiction ter.

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Speaker 1: And it's a muscle, right, And the more you use it,

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Speaker 1: the stronger it gets, and the less you use it,

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Speaker 1: the more at atrophies. And I definitely do feel like

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Speaker 1: you have to fight the noise and be intentional and

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Speaker 1: set those boundaries for yourself. And it's interesting because I

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Speaker 1: think people are looking more at self care now and

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Speaker 1: looking more at the ways that they can do the

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Speaker 1: stuff they love. And it's also kind of interesting that

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Speaker 1: there's could be a fight against writing, right because is

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Speaker 1: this work? Do I really want to be working now

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Speaker 1: you know, if we don't do the work, the writing

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Speaker 1: doesn't get done. So for me, it brings me so

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Speaker 1: much joy to have written. Not when I'm writing, but

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Speaker 1: to have written is joyful for me. And in order

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Speaker 1: to get to that joy, I have to write. I'm Glory, Adam,

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Speaker 1: and this is well Red Black Girl. I'm speaking with

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Speaker 1: writer Jacqueline Woodson. I have been thinking about this idea

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Speaker 1: of pairing self care and self discipline, and this idea

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Speaker 1: of when things are challenging, it's actually okay to sit

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Speaker 1: with difficult moments and work through them and build through

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Speaker 1: that uncertainty because in the end, the end result is

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Speaker 1: what we're building towards. But I'm finding them learning to

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Speaker 1: love revision and I'm loving to learn to like rewrite

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Speaker 1: and rewrite like that. Revision process for me is so rewarding,

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Speaker 1: and I'm really curious to learn how you get into

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Speaker 1: your revision process, especially when you're juggling multiple narratives. It's

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Speaker 1: so crazy, Glory. It's yesterday. I was taking notes on

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Speaker 1: a new book that I'm writing, and I took the

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Speaker 1: notes and I put them to the side because I'm

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Speaker 1: working on an outline for a screenplay that I have

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Speaker 1: to finish by tomorrow, and you know I'm gonna do it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna sit here until it's done. I close my

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Speaker 1: office and I'm gonna pull my curtains close. And that's

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Speaker 1: how I do it. I love a deadline. I love

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Speaker 1: the revision process. I love when I can see a

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Speaker 1: book falling apart. Right you're writing and as wonderful and

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Speaker 1: it's fabulous and it's the best thing you've ever written,

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Speaker 1: and it's the next great novel. And then you get

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Speaker 1: to that point and all the characters are trash, right,

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Speaker 1: and it's cliche, and you're like using adjectives that lead

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Speaker 1: us nowhere and all of that, and that's the point

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Speaker 1: where you have to start scaffolding, right, That's the point

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Speaker 1: where you have to ask what your character wants and

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Speaker 1: how your character is going to get it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: what's the hero's journey. I always I depend a lot

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Speaker 1: on the hero's journey. And so when I get to

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Speaker 1: that point of scaffolding, I sit and I'm mad at

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Speaker 1: myself for a couple of days, and then I bring

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Speaker 1: fresh eyes and I read everything out loud. So so

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Speaker 1: usually in the morning, when i'm starting a rewrite, I'll

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Speaker 1: start by reading it out loud to bring the story

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Speaker 1: back into my body and my head, and that really

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Speaker 1: helps me sit down and start taking it apart or

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Speaker 1: piecing it back together. I don't have to worry about

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Speaker 1: characters getting mixed up, and of course they're overlapping themes

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Speaker 1: in all of my work, but I do try to

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Speaker 1: keep the characters different. I love that. I love that

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Speaker 1: because I'm now working on a couple of different projects

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Speaker 1: and it's been and I literally have all these like

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Speaker 1: sticky notes on my wall to like organize them. But

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Speaker 1: seeing it visually does help me. You've written over thirty

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Speaker 1: books for children and adults. What drives you to continue writing?

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Speaker 1: It keeps me sane, A writing really does, And any

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Speaker 1: writer out there knows that. I'm sure you know that

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Speaker 1: that the writing is the thing that keeps me feeling

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Speaker 1: like I have some control over what happens in the world,

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Speaker 1: whether or not I do or not. I know I

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Speaker 1: have it in fiction, so it makes me feel like

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Speaker 1: it's a place I can go to, and it's also

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Speaker 1: a place that helps me breathe better. So I couldn't

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Speaker 1: imagine not doing it. I've never done it for the money.

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Speaker 1: The money has been nice and when it's come, but

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Speaker 1: early on, as a lot of people know, the money

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Speaker 1: does not come, and you have to have other jobs.

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Speaker 1: And when I had the many, many other jobs, I

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Speaker 1: was never happy doing them, and I was always happy

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Speaker 1: when I was writing. So and that still holds true.

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Speaker 1: The thing about writing is it keeps me happy, It

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Speaker 1: keeps me sane, It keeps me feeling like I have

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Speaker 1: some way of creating change in a world that so

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Speaker 1: often makes us feel powerless to creating change. I see

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Speaker 1: that in your work today, and now I see it

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Speaker 1: as it transforms into the Baldwin Residency, in this community

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Speaker 1: that aims to protect writers, especially when they're most vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: And I'm so honored to be part of your team

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Speaker 1: building Baldwin for the Arts because it is so important.

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Speaker 1: Can we talk about how that originated and you know

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Speaker 1: what led to you starting the community and what your

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Speaker 1: vision is for the residency. When I was coming up

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Speaker 1: as a writer in the eighties and early nineties, I

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Speaker 1: just remember this sense of invisibility because I was in

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Speaker 1: a different world. So I have Virginia Hamilton, I have

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Speaker 1: Walter Dean Myers, I had the writers who really supported

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Speaker 1: and mentored me and held me up. I was also

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Speaker 1: writing for adults, and that was a different world. That

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Speaker 1: was a world outside of young people's literature. And I

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Speaker 1: found that that world was a lot of white guys,

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Speaker 1: a lot of attention paid to white guys, and very

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Speaker 1: little attention paid to writers of color, especially writers of

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Speaker 1: color who are coming from young people's literature. And it

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Speaker 1: just it made no sense. So I would send out

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Speaker 1: to your stories, they would get rejected. I would apply

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Speaker 1: for fellowships, I'd get rejected. And then I'd see the

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Speaker 1: people who had gone through these residencies and gotten these fellowships.

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Speaker 1: And I remember I used to call the Whiting the

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Speaker 1: white People's Award because for so long I didn't see

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Speaker 1: any people of color getting the Whiting. And there are

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Speaker 1: a number of awards happening like that at that time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you look at the history of the

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Speaker 1: National Book Award, when you go back and you look

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Speaker 1: at the winners early on, it was very undiverse and

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Speaker 1: part of the reason those people weren't theirs because they

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Speaker 1: hadn't had the foundational structure. There was that period where

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Speaker 1: if you went through the Iowa Writer's Workshop, you were

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Speaker 1: golden right, that period's gone, thankfully, but there was this

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Speaker 1: way in which you had to belong to this certain

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Speaker 1: kind of club that a lot of people who were

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Speaker 1: outside of that narrative couldn't be a part of. So

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Speaker 1: people of the global community, queer people, and so the

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Speaker 1: first residency I got finally was at McDowell, and when

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Speaker 1: I got there, I was one of very few black folks.

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Speaker 1: I think Tulani Davis was there at the time the

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Speaker 1: first time I went there. But for decades I always

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Speaker 1: dreamed of a safe space for people of the global majority,

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Speaker 1: for bipoc people, you know, for people who are trying

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Speaker 1: to do their work without having to explain anything to anyone,

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Speaker 1: especially people at the beginning of their work, where I

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Speaker 1: think there's such a fragility and it's so easy to

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Speaker 1: lose young writers and composers and visual artists because they

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Speaker 1: don't have support systems. They don't have someone saying I

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Speaker 1: see you come for a week comfort a month and

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Speaker 1: do of work and I will support you. And so

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Speaker 1: it was this kind of back of the head dream

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Speaker 1: of mine that I thought, when I finally get enough

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Speaker 1: money from writing books and when I'm older, I can

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Speaker 1: do it. And then I got the Alma Award, which

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Speaker 1: was at that point was about five hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: and maybe something more. And I thought, this is a

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Speaker 1: sign that I can do this work now, and so

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Speaker 1: I know, bought the property and started building the vision

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Speaker 1: of Baldwin for the art and thankfully people like you

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Speaker 1: came on board and helped with the vision. And of course,

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Speaker 1: you know, you were one of the early people I

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Speaker 1: thought of, because what I saw with well Ware Black

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Speaker 1: Girl was the vision you started with and the amazingness

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Speaker 1: that it has grown into. So I really wanted to

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Speaker 1: do that and it's been crazy to see the result

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Speaker 1: of that, and the fellows that have come through it

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Speaker 1: are all so grateful and also creating amazing stuff, Like

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Speaker 1: I think that was kind of a surprise to me.

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Speaker 1: It's like these young artists, and of course it's not

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Speaker 1: just young agewise right as people at the earlier stages

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Speaker 1: of their career are doing some phenomenal stuff that I

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Speaker 1: had never imagined would be the kind of work I'd

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Speaker 1: see because of course I'm older, like, oh, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be this and that, and it's like, whoa this is?

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Speaker 1: This is amazing. I have Oh gosh, I have so

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Speaker 1: many questions because I'm thinking about you winning your first

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Speaker 1: National Book Award and then winning this prize that gave

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Speaker 1: you the funds to start this institution, and you are

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Speaker 1: now on the other side. You are this incredible elder

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Speaker 1: that is guiding and providing insight and wisdom. But now

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Speaker 1: you're part of the club. You know, like you were

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Speaker 1: outside of the club, you know before you were looking

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Speaker 1: at the Whiting Foundation and how like, what does it

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Speaker 1: feel like to be on the other side and be

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Speaker 1: part of that community that once you felt so outside of.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny glory. I was at a economy event

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Speaker 1: and it was packed and there were no seats anywhere.

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Speaker 1: And I came in and three people got up and

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Speaker 1: gave me, you know, try to give me their seats.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, they're so sweet. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're giving me their seat because you know, I'm a woman,

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Speaker 1: or because I don't know what. And then I sat

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Speaker 1: down and I looked around. I'm like, I'm Auntie, and

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Speaker 1: it dawned. I mean, I'm like, everyone in this room

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Speaker 1: is probably about twenty years younger than I am, and

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Speaker 1: they're giving me my seat because I'm an elder. And

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Speaker 1: it blew my mind. Like it feels like it happened

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Speaker 1: very quickly. Elizabeth said it took thirty years to become

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Speaker 1: an overnight sensation, right, right, right, And it is true

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Speaker 1: that since that time, thirty five forty years have passed,

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Speaker 1: and here I am. And it's surprising when I even

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Speaker 1: see my name or someone calls me out, or someone

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Speaker 1: recognizes me outside of the world of children books, like

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Speaker 1: it is still this thing I'm coming to understand is

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Speaker 1: myself being in a different place. I know I'm in

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Speaker 1: a different place economically, but also in terms of the attention.

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Speaker 1: Like I see the awards and I know I've gotten them,

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Speaker 1: but I think also because of the pandemic, Right, so

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Speaker 1: since the pandemic, I got the Hans Christian Anderson, I

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Speaker 1: got the MacArthur, and those awards are international, and so

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Speaker 1: then when I go into these spaces, which is so

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Speaker 1: rare now, then I see that people know, oh, you're

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Speaker 1: the MacArthur fellow or you're the one who got the

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Speaker 1: Hans Christian Anderson Award, and it's like, oh, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: didn't just happen in a small room in my house,

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Speaker 1: you know. With a couple of zoom interviews like it

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Speaker 1: happened on a bigger level, so it's interesting. It's a journey. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm Jacqueline Woodson and you're listening to well read Black Girl. Okay, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: it's time for everyone's favorite segment, rapid Fire, where I

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Speaker 1: ask you a series of questions and you answer the

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Speaker 1: first thing that pops into your head. So okay, First one,

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Speaker 1: name one book that is on your nightsand it's a

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Speaker 1: galley called Trust by Hernan daz Oh. That sounds good, okay. Next,

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Speaker 1: one favorite board game as a child, Checkers, Free Sag

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Speaker 1: or red Light Green Lights. I have to say red

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Speaker 1: Light green Light. I've read that somebody. Okay, do you

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Speaker 1: prefer to write in pencil or penum pen describe Bushwick

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Speaker 1: in three words? Um the bushwiive my childhood or today's

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Speaker 1: Bushwick because they are a different choice. Okay, let's do

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Speaker 1: childhood colorful a lot, I'm home, that's beautiful. Name three

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Speaker 1: items on your desk headphones, CBD oil, and a stack

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Speaker 1: of projects in folders. You need the oil for those

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Speaker 1: stack of projects. Yes, between beloved the book or beloved

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Speaker 1: the film? Which was better? Definitely the book? Definitely the book.

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Speaker 1: I think the performances in the film were extraordinary, but

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Speaker 1: no one was how I imagine them in the book,

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Speaker 1: especially not um Tanny Newton's character. I was just like,

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Speaker 1: what is going on here? There was something so ethereal

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Speaker 1: about beloved the book and then when I saw it

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Speaker 1: on this where I was like, no, sorry, And being

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00:26:04,337 --> 00:26:07,137
Speaker 1: someone who's at this point, you know, trying to turn

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Speaker 1: narrative into something visual for the screen, there is a

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Speaker 1: way in which some stuff has to be left unseen

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Speaker 1: except on the page, because that's where it was meant

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Speaker 1: to work. I know your screen Blight's gonna give us

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Speaker 1: all the feelings, I hope. So it gave me all

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Speaker 1: the feelings right in, and I won't say those are

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Speaker 1: always good ones. Thank you Jackie for your time and

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00:26:39,337 --> 00:26:42,217
Speaker 1: your energy and just sharing all your wisdom with us.

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00:26:42,657 --> 00:26:48,137
Speaker 1: Are wonderful. Eldert, Thank you, Gloria. I'm so glad to

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Speaker 1: have made it this far. I'm so glad for your

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00:26:50,817 --> 00:26:53,177
Speaker 1: work in the world. I'm so proud of you and

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00:26:53,337 --> 00:26:55,857
Speaker 1: so thankful and thanks for having me on the show.

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Speaker 1: I learned so much from my conversation with Jacqueline. I

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Speaker 1: think for me, I'm really inspired to pay more attention

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00:27:11,937 --> 00:27:15,937
Speaker 1: to how I treat myself when I'm writing. I need

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00:27:15,977 --> 00:27:19,497
Speaker 1: to give myself the space to breathe and create, and

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00:27:19,697 --> 00:27:24,057
Speaker 1: you should too. Aspiring writers, you know I'm always looking

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00:27:24,057 --> 00:27:27,097
Speaker 1: out for you. You can find information on how to

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00:27:27,137 --> 00:27:30,617
Speaker 1: apply to Baldwin for the Arts Residency on their website

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00:27:31,257 --> 00:27:35,457
Speaker 1: Baldwin for the Arts dot org. And everyone should go

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00:27:35,497 --> 00:27:37,497
Speaker 1: out and pick up the year We learn to fly

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00:27:37,897 --> 00:27:41,817
Speaker 1: for a little person in your life. In the next episode,

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Speaker 1: I'll be speaking with me one and only, Gabrielle Union.

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00:27:46,017 --> 00:28:03,977
Speaker 1: Don't forget to tell your friends well read. Black Girl

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00:28:04,137 --> 00:28:07,737
Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. It is written and

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00:28:07,777 --> 00:28:12,137
Speaker 1: hosted by me Glory Adam and produced by Cher Vincent

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Speaker 1: and Brittany Brown. Our associate editor is Keishall Williams, Our

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00:28:17,497 --> 00:28:22,697
Speaker 1: engineer is Amanda ka Wang, and our showrunner is Sasha Matthias.

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00:28:22,697 --> 00:28:28,177
Speaker 1: Special thanks this week to Vicki Merrick. Our executive producers

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00:28:28,257 --> 00:28:32,897
Speaker 1: are Mia Lobell and Leet Hall Molad. At Pushkin Thanks

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00:28:32,897 --> 00:28:39,577
Speaker 1: to Heather Fane, Carly Migliori, Jason Gambrau, Julia Barton, Jen Goerra,

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00:28:40,217 --> 00:28:44,697
Speaker 1: John Schnars, and Jacob Wiseberg. You can find me on

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00:28:44,697 --> 00:28:47,697
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram. At Well read black Girl. You can

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00:28:47,737 --> 00:28:51,257
Speaker 1: find Pushkin and all social media platforms at pushkin Pods,

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Speaker 1: and you can sign up for our newsletter at pushkin

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Speaker 1: dot Fm. If you love this show and others from

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Speaker 1: Pushkin industry, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is

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Speaker 1: a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and uninterrupted listening

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Speaker 1: Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you're already a subscriber, make

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00:29:15,057 --> 00:29:18,817
Speaker 1: sure to check out my exclusive Bookmark series on Pushkin Plus.

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00:29:18,857 --> 00:29:22,857
Speaker 1: Starting on February eighteenth. You'll hear extended interviews with book

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Speaker 1: club members, bookstore owners, and more. And do you get

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00:29:27,097 --> 00:29:29,817
Speaker 1: to hear What's on my mind, What's on my radar,

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00:29:30,337 --> 00:29:33,377
Speaker 1: and of course what's on my reading list? Each week.

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Speaker 1: To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you like to listen