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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and fourteen percent of Republicans say they

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Speaker 1: would take action to overturn the election of Trump loses.

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Speaker 1: In case you're wondering, that's a lot of people. We

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Speaker 1: have such a great show for you today. The Groundwork

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Speaker 1: Collectives executive director Lindsey Owens comes to talk to us

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Speaker 1: about price gouging and how Vice President Harris, if elected,

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Speaker 1: will fight it. Then we have Democracy Forwards Sky Perryman

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Speaker 1: on how her organization is pushing back against republicans constant overreaches.

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Speaker 1: Then as a bonus, we have a portion of our

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Speaker 1: conversation at Democracy Forwards event at the DNC with Congresswoman

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Speaker 1: Becca Balent, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, and Congressman Maxwell Frost. But

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Speaker 1: first we have the host of the Lawrence O'Donnell Show,

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Speaker 1: ms NBC's Lawrence O'Donnell. Welcome back to Fast Politics. Fan

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Speaker 1: favorite and also my favorite, Lawrence.

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Speaker 2: You're not supposed to say you have a favorite. When

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Speaker 2: you're in the business of inviting guests, Ask me who

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Speaker 2: my favorite is your favorite?

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Speaker 1: Guest on my Shaw, who's your favorite?

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Speaker 2: I don't have a favorite. See, by the way, Molly,

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Speaker 2: this morning's lesson in parenting. Okay, if you have more

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Speaker 2: than one child, you're supposed to know this and hopes.

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Speaker 1: They're all your favorite. Correct, And right now again, yet

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Speaker 1: another day of unprecedented times? Do you get ever? Do

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Speaker 1: you ever get sick of living in sort of unprecedented times?

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Speaker 2: I've been sick of it every single day since Trump

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Speaker 2: went up to about twenty four percent in the polls

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Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen. Before that, it was a joke, he was.

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Speaker 2: He started at three percent in the Republican primary polls.

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Speaker 2: He doubled that to six, and I think then double

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Speaker 2: that to twelve. And I'm pretty sure that was the

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Speaker 2: point when I declared authoritatively on Morning Joe, well, of

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Speaker 2: course he's never going to get higher than that. And

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Speaker 2: so once he got up there and he was like

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Speaker 2: running in second place to Jeb Bush, that was sickening.

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Speaker 2: And so it's been sickening ever since, and so tired

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Speaker 2: of it. And I don't think this is too dramatic

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Speaker 2: a frame to use for this, because it's a kind

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Speaker 2: of necessary frame for how the human mind copes with

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Speaker 2: a long term oppressive struggle. And it's like asking somebody,

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Speaker 2: you know, in World War two and you know, nineteen

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Speaker 2: forty three, are you sick of this?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: And they're you know, and there's two and a half

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Speaker 2: more years of World War Two. And I mean people.

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Speaker 2: I don't mean the soldiers. I mean like people living

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Speaker 2: in the United States, you know, who could not buy

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Speaker 2: gasoline because it was rationed, or they could not buy

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Speaker 2: tires because that was ration and you couldn't and America

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Speaker 2: stopped manufacturing new cars, and there was all sorts of

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Speaker 2: collective countrywide kind of stress and varying degrees of deprivation

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Speaker 2: because of World War Two and because of this nut

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Speaker 2: Hitler what he was doing to us without ever having

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Speaker 2: reached this country. What you will find from people who

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Speaker 2: lived through that is that most days they were laughing

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Speaker 2: and joking and living completely normal lives and never actually

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Speaker 2: living without that horrible feeling of what we were going

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Speaker 2: through and what was at risk. And so this no,

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Speaker 2: I never get used to this horrible Trump era, which

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Speaker 2: is the single worst era in American electoral politics and

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Speaker 2: American electoral history. It's not you know, the worst era economically,

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Speaker 2: or the worst era or the worst era, you know,

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Speaker 2: in a foreign policy or war challenges and things like that,

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Speaker 2: but it is the single worst era of American history

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Speaker 2: created entirely by politics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's such an important point that this

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Speaker 1: is an electoral nightmare and could perhaps end in you

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Speaker 1: know not and it could very likely end in a

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Speaker 1: non reelection of Trump, but either way it's possible. But

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Speaker 1: I do think it's really important that the sort of

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Speaker 1: sword of damocles is of Trumpism has really been there

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Speaker 1: the whole decade almost.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I now find myself saying things, you know,

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Speaker 2: on my show to audience members who may not be

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Speaker 2: aware of how weird it all is. You know, if

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Speaker 2: you're twenty four, how long have you been paying attention?

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Speaker 2: By the way, if you're twenty four, have you begun

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Speaker 2: paying attention?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: And I would say, if you're twenty four and you

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Speaker 2: never paid attention before at all, like you never paid

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Speaker 2: attention to the elections, and you didn't vote in the

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Speaker 2: last presidential election, the one thing you're aware of about

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Speaker 2: this presidential election, the one thing I guarantee you every

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Speaker 2: twenty four year old is aware of, is Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: saying from his crazed you know semi straight jacketed condition

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Speaker 2: there in Florida on Sunday morning. I hate Taylor Swift. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And so when I was talking about that the other night,

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Speaker 2: I had to say, thinking about that twenty one year

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Speaker 2: old or the eighteen year old, and oh, by the way,

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Speaker 2: the fourteen year olds, that you have to understand, Presidents

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Speaker 2: do not use the word hate as a verb applied

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Speaker 2: to a human being, right, you know? And I just said,

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Speaker 2: you know, because I know, having lived long enough and

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Speaker 2: listened long enough, that you're not going to find it,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you search everything Jimmy Carter ever said,

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Speaker 2: or Bill Clinton ever said, it's never going to be

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Speaker 2: I hate a person. Right. I have studied a great

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Speaker 2: deal of the World War two era, and from my study,

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Speaker 2: I would say to you, off the top of my head,

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Speaker 2: Franklin Roosevelt, president of the United States, never said I hate.

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Speaker 1: Hitler, right, though he had every reason too.

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Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, And that's how rare that is. Winston Churchill

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Speaker 2: I found yesterday once said that he hated Hitler. He

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Speaker 2: said that once, okay, and he said it in a

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Speaker 2: pretty elegantly phrased you turn and was apologizing for the

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Speaker 2: use of the word at the same time. And so

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Speaker 2: it's things like that. It's moments like that where you

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Speaker 2: have this opportunity to remind people, and even you know,

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Speaker 2: the forty year olds working on my show, it had

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Speaker 2: never really crossed their minds when I was saying to

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Speaker 2: them yesterday, find me an instance of a president of

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Speaker 2: the United States saying I hate a person. Go ahead,

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Speaker 2: you have the world Wide Web. You got a couple

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Speaker 2: of hours. Find me one. And the best they could

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Speaker 2: come up with former President George H. W. Bush when

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Speaker 2: he was seventy eight years old, just like Docald Trump

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Speaker 2: saying I hate Saddam and then in his Connecticut Yankee

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Speaker 2: way kind of immediately apologizing for the use of the

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Speaker 2: word hete But one of the things, one of the

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Speaker 2: contexts to remember about that is that there had just

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Speaker 2: been uncovered a Saddam, an alleged Saddam plot about somehow

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Speaker 2: trying to assassinate his son, President George Reash. So it

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Speaker 2: was kind of, you know, that was the one slip

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Speaker 2: in the previous presidential history of dignity, avoidance of hate

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Speaker 2: as a verb, And there wasn't the slightest ripple of

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Speaker 2: surprise anywhere when Donald Trump, you know tweeted I hate

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Speaker 2: Taylor Swift. And by the way, I know it's not

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Speaker 2: on Twitter, and I know Twitter's not called Twitter anymore. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: I'm not changing my language.

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Speaker 1: Yeh, good for you.

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Speaker 2: So no one was even slight surprised, and no one

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Speaker 2: even really thought it was a big deal, And that

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Speaker 2: is a tragic corruption of presidential and post presidential discourse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, the fact that the office of presidency

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Speaker 1: has been so genteel in a certain way, even though

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Speaker 1: there have been definitely things done. Presidents have done things

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Speaker 1: in this country and towards Americans, even in the House, well,

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Speaker 1: the House of Non American Activities was not presidential, but

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Speaker 1: certain things, like you know, the way they've treated ethnic

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Speaker 1: groups in this country. I mean, they have done things,

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Speaker 1: but they have always presented themselves in a really genteel way.

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Speaker 1: And Trump is stylistically different, but he's also ethically, morally

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Speaker 1: profoundly different.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And it hasn't really been a matter of gentility.

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Speaker 2: It has been a matter of best strategic practice. So

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Speaker 2: let's go to the example of Franklin Roosevelt never saying

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Speaker 2: I hate him Hitler And oh, by the way, there's

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Speaker 2: no record of him saying it privately. It's very clear

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Speaker 2: he did. When you get into his private the things

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Speaker 2: he did say privately about Hitler, he absolutely would pass

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Speaker 2: the test of hating Hitler and certainly hating everything Hitler did.

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Speaker 2: The reason not to say it is not some aristocratic gentility.

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Speaker 2: The reason not to say it is that you don't

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Speaker 2: want the mother in Missouri thinking that her son at

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Speaker 2: that time is being sent off to war and possibly

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Speaker 2: die in a war with Germany because you hate Hitler. Right,

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Speaker 2: that war has to be about something other than you

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Speaker 2: personally hating Hitler. It must be, and so it was

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Speaker 2: about something other than personally hating Hitler. And at the

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Speaker 2: same time, you know, we were allies in that war

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Speaker 2: with the second worst dictator on the planet, Joseph Stalin,

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Speaker 2: and you had to embrace that struategic balance in order

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Speaker 2: to win World War Two. So if you think you

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Speaker 2: can kind of flippantly say I hate Hitler while your

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Speaker 2: teammates with Joseph Stalin temporarily, temporarily and strategically to save

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Speaker 2: the world, by the way, that's you know, you got

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Speaker 2: a problem. And it's also President's understanding that no matter

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Speaker 2: what job they had before this, whether it was governor

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Speaker 2: or senator. The weight of their words now as president

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Speaker 2: or a post president is just really profound. And they

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Speaker 2: have all been in awe of that, you know, that

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Speaker 2: weight of those words that they that they must live by,

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Speaker 2: and you know, you see it to a point of timidity.

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Speaker 2: For example, in George W. Bush, right, the only living

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Speaker 2: former Republican president who lives in absolute silence, absolute and

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Speaker 2: total silence, and all any decent person wants him to

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Speaker 2: do is to say, you know, don't vote for Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump and here's why. And he won't even do that.

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Speaker 2: And I do think that may be of the of

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Speaker 2: the negatives in George W. Bush's legacy which are profound,

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Speaker 2: That one, I think is the one that you can

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Speaker 2: really take very seriously as an identifier of the dimensions

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Speaker 2: of that person's conscience. And when you listen to what

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Speaker 2: George W. Bush's vice president has said, and you listen

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Speaker 2: to what the daughter of George W. Bush's vice president

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Speaker 2: has said, and if you listen to their words, it

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Speaker 2: is morally indefensible for George W. Bush not to say

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Speaker 2: the same thing, unless and only unless he actually wants

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump to win.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when Dick Cheney has become the arbitrary. I mean

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Speaker 1: he you know, has become the moral compass of the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party, which he has at this moment. Can you

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Speaker 1: talk about I wrote a piece about this because it

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Speaker 1: just struck me as so blatant. But the lie about Ohio, Springfield, Ohio,

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Speaker 1: the lie about Haitian immigrants who are there legally, who

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Speaker 1: Trump wants to deport to Venezuela, that lie is just

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Speaker 1: yet another one of these things they do that autocrats do,

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Speaker 1: I mean, so blatant, so transparent, but also I mean,

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Speaker 1: talk to me about what your take on that was.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think one of the more important

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Speaker 2: things to know about it is that it's not new

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Speaker 2: in America or in other countries. They said this about

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Speaker 2: the Irish and you know, the eighteen fifties in Boston

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Speaker 2: and New York and they were lying then and literally

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Speaker 2: by the way, literally you know, the eating of dogs

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Speaker 2: and that that sort of thing, that specific thing has

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Speaker 2: been used at many times in our history. And you know,

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Speaker 2: when you look at the things that Hitler said about Jews,

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Speaker 2: they were that and worse, you know, and much worse,

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Speaker 2: like they'll eat your children. Yeah, So it's a thing

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Speaker 2: you know what these bad people immigrants. You know, in

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Speaker 2: the Germany case, the Jews that Hitler was talking about

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Speaker 2: it certainly at first were not immigrants. They were actually

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Speaker 2: you know, born native residents of Germany, but they were

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Speaker 2: the demonized group. And here the demonized group are the immigrants,

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Speaker 2: and now specifically Haitian immigrants, you know, not randomly chosen

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Speaker 2: from the potential immigrant group. You know, you've got a

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Speaker 2: solidly black group of immigrants that he can identify that way.

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Speaker 2: And it's extremely deliberate. And because Donald Trump is not

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Speaker 2: has not once in his entire political career tried to

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Speaker 2: convert a voter who he doesn't have already. He doesn't

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Speaker 2: care how stupid it looks to us, and how evil

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Speaker 2: it looks to us, and how stupid it looks to

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Speaker 2: you don't know, women, suburban voters in Ohio who you know,

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Speaker 2: know for a fact that it's not true. He doesn't

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Speaker 2: care about that. He cares that it energizes the people

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Speaker 2: who share his hatreds. And that's the currency he's been

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Speaker 2: trading in from the start. Can my hatreds win the

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Speaker 2: electoral college? Do my hatreds? Are my hatreds shared by

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Speaker 2: enough people geographically distributed in a way that will allow

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Speaker 2: me to win the electoral college, not win the most votes.

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Speaker 2: That's not the campaign. He's not in a campaign to

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Speaker 2: win the most votes. He's never won the most votes.

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Speaker 2: It's the electoral college. And you know, in twenty sixteen

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Speaker 2: they were distributed in such a way that could allow

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Speaker 2: for that, and so it's horrific. And of course, you know,

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Speaker 2: and of course, because you know, Donald Trump is the

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Speaker 2: clown writing this history. Clown history, of course, would hand

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Speaker 2: us the situation where within days of Donald Trump saying

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Speaker 2: that Haitian immigrants are eating cats and dogs in Springfield, Ohio,

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Speaker 2: the federal prosecutor who is now investigating the latest accused

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Speaker 2: assassination attempt of Donald Trump is a Haitian immigrant. He

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Speaker 2: arrived in this country when he was sixteen years old,

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Speaker 2: not speaking much English at all, got into public high

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Speaker 2: school in Miami, graduated, joined the Marines immediately after graduation,

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Speaker 2: eventually got back to college and law school, works in

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Speaker 2: the US Attorney's office for a couple of years, goes

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Speaker 2: into private practice in a prestigious Miami law firm. And

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Speaker 2: now we have a fifty four or so year old

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Speaker 2: Haitian immigrant exactly precisely who Donald Trump says is poisoning

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Speaker 2: the blood of America. That's who's in charge of the

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Speaker 2: investigation of the latest person to get near Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: with a gun.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and these people who Trump accuses all of this

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Speaker 1: stuff of are actually the reason that the American economy

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Speaker 1: is doing better than almost any economy in the world.

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Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you can just we don't have a

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Speaker 1: ton of time, but I want you to take a

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Speaker 1: shot at this. Why do you think that JD. Vance

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Speaker 1: uses all the same tropes as Trump and somehow can't

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Speaker 1: make it work for him.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a wonderful experiment that we've run

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Speaker 2: a couple of times now, and JD. Evans is the

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Speaker 2: latest example of it, which is that trump Ism is

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Speaker 2: not transferable. It is not There's not going to be

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Speaker 2: another one. The seventy eight year old Trump is going

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Speaker 2: to expire from politics and there will not be another one.

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Speaker 2: No one is going to be able to stand up there.

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Speaker 2: Mike Pompeo thought he was the guy who was going

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Speaker 2: to be able to do this. You know. JD. Evance

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Speaker 2: clearly wants to be the guy. You know, Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: Junior wants to be the guy. There is not going

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Speaker 2: to be another guy. They're going to have to proceed

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Speaker 2: in a Republican Party without Donald Trump and without any

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Speaker 2: policies and without any wild guess about what do we

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Speaker 2: do next? Because it has been nothing but a cult

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Speaker 2: of personality, you know, absolutely nothing. But and as strongly

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Speaker 2: as FDR held his grip on the Democratic Party such

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Speaker 2: that he won, you know, four presidential elections in a row,

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Speaker 2: it was never a cult of personality. It was a

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Speaker 2: program of policies, the most advanced and set of public

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Speaker 2: policies in the history of the presidency, directed at domestic governance.

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Speaker 2: And so when he died in office and Harry Truman

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Speaker 2: took over, Harry Truman, who had absolutely no following in

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Speaker 2: the United States of America, won the next presidential election when,

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Speaker 2: by the way, everybody predicted he was going to lose,

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Speaker 2: including every single reporter on the on the Truman campaign train.

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Speaker 2: They liked the guy, but they were sure he was

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Speaker 2: going to lose. And so it was kind of that

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Speaker 2: election of Harry trumpan was kind of proof, Okay, this

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Speaker 2: wasn't a cult of personality. As much as FDR was

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Speaker 2: loved and so We've never seen an actual cult of

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Speaker 2: personality take over one of the political parties, so we

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Speaker 2: don't have any idea what happens to that party when

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Speaker 2: that personality leaves that stage.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well we're going to see, right, or maybe we won't.

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Speaker 2: He's seventy eight years old. We are going to see.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Thank you, Lawrence, Thank you very much.

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Speaker 5: We have even more toward dates for you. Did you

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Speaker 5: know the linked projects? Rick wils did a fast politics

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Speaker 5: Bali jug Faster heading out on tour to bring you

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Speaker 5: a night of laughs for our dark political landscape. Join

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Speaker 5: us on August twenty sixth at San Francisco at the

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Speaker 5: Swedish American Hall, or in la on August twenty seventh

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Speaker 5: at the Regent Theater. Then we're headed to the Midwest.

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Speaker 5: We'll be at the Vivarium in Milwaukee on the twenty

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Speaker 5: first of September, and on the twenty second we'll be

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Speaker 5: in Chicago at City Winery. Then we're going to hit

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Speaker 5: the East coast. On September thirtieth, we'll be in Boston

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Speaker 5: at Arts at the Armory. On the first of October,

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Speaker 5: we'll be in affiliate City Winery, and then DC on

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Speaker 5: the second at the Miracle Theater, and today we just

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Speaker 5: announced that we'll be in New York on the fourteenth

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Speaker 5: of October at City Winery. If you need to laugh

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Speaker 5: as we get through this election and hopefully never hear

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Speaker 5: from a guy who lives in a golf club again,

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Speaker 5: we got you covered. Join us in our surprise guests

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Speaker 5: to help you laugh instead of cry your way through

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Speaker 5: this election season and give you the inside analysis of

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Speaker 5: what's really going on right now. Buy your tickets now

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Speaker 5: by heading to Politics as Unusual dot bio. That's Politics

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Speaker 5: as Unusual dot bio.

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Speaker 1: Lindsey Owens is the executive director of Groundwork Collective. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, Lindsay Owens, Hi, thanks for having me

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Speaker 1: explain to us. You are an expert on price gouging.

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Speaker 1: Explain to us how you get to be an expert

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Speaker 1: on that and what that looks like and what you do. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: So, I run a think tank in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 6: Called the Grammar Collaborative, and we focus on policies that

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Speaker 6: build an economy that works for everyone. And for the

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Speaker 6: last few years, the biggest topic in the economy has

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Speaker 6: really been inflation and high prices, and as part of

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Speaker 6: that work, we have really spent a considerable amount of

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Speaker 6: time digging into the research and the legal theories around

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Speaker 6: price gouging, price fixing, profiteering, all of the things that

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Speaker 6: have sort of worked against bringing costs down for families

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Speaker 6: over this last few years.

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Speaker 1: Explain to us where we are right now in the

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Speaker 1: kind of price gouging cycle, you.

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Speaker 6: Know, really beginning with the pandemic. One thing that we

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Speaker 6: saw over and over again is you know a number

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Speaker 6: of companies and you know some individual Americans as well,

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Speaker 6: started gouging on essentials. You may remember that we saw

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Speaker 6: a lot of examples of guys hoarding PPP and their

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Speaker 6: garages and selling it, you know, at a very high

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Speaker 6: price point. We saw companies spiking the price of essentials.

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Speaker 6: We have an example recently where the New York Attorney

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Speaker 6: General came to a settlement with Walgreens over price gouging

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Speaker 6: on baby formula. Remember we had that baby formula shortage,

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Speaker 6: you know, a couple of years back, and you know,

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Speaker 6: Walgreens took advantage of it and really hiked the price

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Speaker 6: point of baby formula, and Tiss James, the new Attorney

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Speaker 6: General in New York State, deployed the regulations that new

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Speaker 6: York State has on the books against price gouging to

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Speaker 6: settle with Walgreens and basically deliver ninety five hundred cans

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Speaker 6: of baby formula back to New Yorkers. So we had

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Speaker 6: a number of examples of this. We see price gouging

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Speaker 6: in food and agriculture quite frequently. I mean there we

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Speaker 6: have the impact of natural disasters, and pandemics and other

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Speaker 6: diseases are quite substantial in food and agriculture. So we've

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Speaker 6: had examples of Calmine, one of the largest egg producers

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Speaker 6: in the country. There was recently a jury trial that

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Speaker 6: found them guilty of price gouging during the bird flu.

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Speaker 6: So of course, you know during bird flu, you know,

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Speaker 6: we had fewer eggs, but they weren't just charging more

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Speaker 6: because there were fewer eggs. They were also really fanning

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Speaker 6: the flames of the shortage. So they were exporting eggs

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Speaker 6: to keep the number of eggs in the US lower,

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Speaker 6: and they were also culling the flock right to keep

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Speaker 6: the egg production down and keep those high prices going

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Speaker 6: for longer.

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Speaker 1: So it's sort of like every company has become OPAQ.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that, you know, in a version of

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Speaker 6: the world in which disasters are more frequent, we're going

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Speaker 6: to see the kind of activities of disaster capitalism. Price

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Speaker 6: gouging is one of those hallmark activities more frequently and

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Speaker 6: more forcefully. And I think you know, when it comes

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Speaker 6: to essentials, the things that matter most to families, keeping

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Speaker 6: a roof over their head and food on the table,

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Speaker 6: it makes a lot of sense for lawmakers at the

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Speaker 6: state level and at the federal level to take a

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Speaker 6: look at what additional tools we might need to curb

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Speaker 6: this really excessive exploitative behavior.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that Robert Reich has said

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Speaker 1: on this topic is that part of the reason why

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Speaker 1: price gouging is such a problem is because of monopolies.

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Speaker 1: Is that true, and if so, explain.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's absolutely true. Look, if you want to charge

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Speaker 6: high prices, it helps if there's no one across the

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Speaker 6: street charging lower prices. Right at the end of the day,

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Speaker 6: if you are looking over the shoulder and competitors are

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Speaker 6: nipping at your heels, it's tougher to run away with

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Speaker 6: these really high prices. And so competition, while not a panacea,

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Speaker 6: is a really important check on excess corporate power, and

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Speaker 6: companies with a lot of power have a lot of

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Speaker 6: market share, and they also have a lot of pricing power,

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Speaker 6: and pricing power is really what you need if you

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Speaker 6: want to push pricing to anti competitive levels. So it's

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Speaker 6: not just price lounging that you can execute more seamlessly

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Speaker 6: if you have a little size and a little pricing power.

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Speaker 6: It's also price fixing, right. If there are fewer people

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Speaker 6: to coordinate with to set prices, it is easier to

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Speaker 6: fix prices at a higher level. It's also the case

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Speaker 6: that sometimes companies are just pricing anti competitively, or pushing

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Speaker 6: prices just a little above where they would be otherwise

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Speaker 6: in a competitive market. We might not think that constitutes

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Speaker 6: sort of true price gouging, which usually is triggered by

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Speaker 6: an emergency, usually really only applies to essentials. We're not

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Speaker 6: really cracking down on price gouging and luxury handbags, for example,

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Speaker 6: but we do see anti competitive pricing throughout the economy,

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Speaker 6: and a great example just really this week, we've seen

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Speaker 6: the Federal Trade Commission blocking the merger of Kroger and Albertsons.

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Speaker 6: Kroger trying to buy Albertsons, and you know, in twenty

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Speaker 6: two states, these are competitors. Kroger and Albertsons compete for shoppers.

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Speaker 6: And what we've learned throughout that trial, which you know,

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Speaker 6: many folks have attended and journalists have covered, you know,

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Speaker 6: really well, is that Koger and Albertson has basically admitted

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Speaker 6: that they've been pricing anti competitively because of their size.

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Speaker 6: And so I think, you know, while we wouldn't call

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Speaker 6: that price gouging, it's just another way, another kind of

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Speaker 6: countervailing pressure that we've seen during this period of high

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Speaker 6: inflation that really cuts against getting prices back on the level.

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Speaker 1: So can you explain to us how tariffs would be

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Speaker 1: inflationary and how they would make prices more expensive?

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Speaker 6: You know, so President Trump has proposed this sort of

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Speaker 6: broad based, across the board twenty percent tariff, and the

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Speaker 6: basic idea is that you know, companies in the US

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Speaker 6: would have to work over more to import goods from abroad,

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Speaker 6: and that you know, the fact that companies you know

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Speaker 6: inside the US are paying more means they're going to

433
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 6: pass those higher prices along to consumers at the endpoint,

434
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 6: at the point of sale. And so it's almost impossible

435
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 6: to imagine a scenario in which broad based traff like

436
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 6: those that President Trump is proposing won't increase prices for Americans. Now,

437
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 6: I think there are more narrow settings in which targeted

438
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 6: and curated tariffs can make a lot of sense. President

439
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 6: Biden is pursuing tariffs as well, in particular around electric vehicles,

440
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 6: to really prevent China from sort of dumping in the

441
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 6: electric vehicle space and making it hard for the US

442
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 6: to build its own electric vehicle industry, which is you know,

443
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 6: nascent and burgeoning and was a big part of what

444
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 6: the investments in the Inflation Reduction Act aimed to do.

445
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 6: So I think there are good reasons for well targeted tariffs.

446
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 6: There are economic reasons for them, there are national security

447
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 6: reasons for them. There are resiliency reasons for them. We

448
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 6: want to be a country that has a strong manufacturing

449
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 6: base here. We learned the hard way on the eve

450
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 6: of the pandemic when there were a lot of things

451
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 6: that we couldn't make in the US that we had

452
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 6: to import, and we couldn't import because of the pandemic.

453
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 6: And so I think, you know, there's a lot you

454
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 6: can do with tariffs, but the type of broad based

455
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,719
Speaker 6: tariffs that President Trump is proposed will surely raise prices

456
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 6: broadly for American families, But can.

457
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: You explain sort of what Harris's plan is to lower

458
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: inflation and also more importantly, to hit these prices like

459
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: the eggs and the meat and etc.

460
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 6: The Vice President laid out an economic agenda in a

461
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 6: speech in North Carolina a few weeks ago, and it

462
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 6: was really her first speech, you know, letting the American

463
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 6: people know what she would pursue visa via economic policy

464
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 6: if she were elected. And she basically said that she

465
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 6: was going to be laser focused on lowering costs for Americans.

466
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 6: And so she talked about bringing down housing costs using

467
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 6: a few different policies, including building three million homes. She

468
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 6: talked about cracking down on price fixing in the rental

469
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 6: market a couple of weeks ago. We really saw the

470
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 6: wisdom of that approach when we learned that the Department

471
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 6: of Justice brought a lawsuit against real Page, a Texas

472
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 6: based real estate technology company runs an algorithm called yield Star,

473
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 6: which helps corporate landlords in large markets in the United

474
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 6: States price fix and by their own admission, Real Page

475
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 6: is increasing rents anywhere between two and seven percent above

476
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 6: competitive levels in major markets. So she talked a lot

477
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 6: about housing prices, but she also talked about food prices,

478
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 6: and she proposed effectively a federal price gouging ban. So,

479
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 6: you know, nearly forty states have price gouging laws on

480
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 6: the books, right. These are kind of plane vanilla laws

481
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 6: that have been on the books for decades in many

482
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 6: states that prevent companies from exploiting crises to gouge customers.

483
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 6: So they basically have four parts. Part one, they're triggered

484
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 6: by some sort of crisis, you know, a natural disaster,

485
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 6: a pandemic, a period of economic uncertainty. Part two, they

486
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 6: really apply only to necessities. Again, you're not going to

487
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 6: see someone cracking down on price gouging for luxury items.

488
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 6: The third component that these laws typically have is a

489
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 6: hibit unconscionably excessive. That's a legal term price hikes. So

490
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 6: companies who are charging two three percent more during a

491
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 6: pandemic are not going to be, you know, brought to

492
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 6: justice for price gouging. These are really price hikes, you know,

493
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 6: well in excess of ten percent usually. And then the

494
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 6: final component is that you know, lawmakers have to take

495
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 6: a close look to ensure that price hikes can't be

496
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 6: justified by underlying increases in costs. So if you're raising

497
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 6: prices because you're selling diapers, and diapers the main ingredient

498
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 6: in diapers is wood pulp that comes from timber, right,

499
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 6: that's the absorbent paper, And the price of timber is up,

500
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 6: and you're just passing along your rising costs the input

501
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 6: costs of timber. You're not going to be looked at

502
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 6: for price gouging, right, So you really need all four

503
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 6: of those components in a price gouging law. And that's

504
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 6: what you see commonly, you know, throughout the United States

505
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 6: and in most states and red states and blue and

506
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 6: so what the Vice President proposed in her speech is

507
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 6: a federal statute that would ban price gouging. You know,

508
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 6: obviously she didn't lay out a huge amount of detail

509
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 6: in a short speech, but I think it would probably

510
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 6: look a lot like the state laws, and it might

511
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 6: look a lot like a piece of legislation currently in

512
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 6: the Senate that Senator Warren has, which is basically a

513
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 6: federal price gouging ban. And so you would imagine something

514
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 6: modeled closely after Senator Warren's proposal. And I think the

515
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 6: federal version of this policy makes a ton of sense.

516
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 6: At the end, of the day. A lot of the

517
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 6: disasters that we experience, a lot of the uncertainty that

518
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 6: we experience in the economy, you know, happens at the

519
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 6: national level, not the state level. A lot of the

520
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 6: companies that we've seen engage in price gouging are not

521
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 6: operating only in one state. They're operating across state lines.

522
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 6: This is interstate commerce. And so I think it would

523
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 6: be really helpful going forward for the FEDS to have

524
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 6: a tool, for the Federal Trade Comission to have a

525
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 6: tool to take a look at price gouging federally. So

526
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 6: I think it's a pretty common sense piece of legislation

527
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 6: in some ways, a bit of a vanilla piece of legislation.

528
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 6: But obviously, you know, the reaction to it was quite strong.

529
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: One on the podcast were fans of hers, But I

530
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: certainly know a lot because I live in New York.

531
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: I know a lot of business people of venture capitalists,

532
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: investment bankers, etc. Who are truly threatened by her. Can

533
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: you explain to us sort of why they're threatened by

534
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: her or why stuff like this is so threatening? And

535
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: if you think that there's a way to thread the

536
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: needle to have a responsible capitalism, that puts its finger

537
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: on the scale in a way that helps workers, but

538
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: that isn't wasteful, thoughtless.

539
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's a good question. So I'll take

540
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 6: the first piece first around, sort of why why Senator

541
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 6: Warren elicits such strong reactions in the business community. You know,

542
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 6: I worked for Senator Warren for several years in the

543
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 6: Senate in Washington, and I think that Senator Warren has

544
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 6: two things that motivate her. The first, I would say

545
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 6: is she really does have a theory of what a

546
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 6: healthy economy should look like. And it's a pretty clear

547
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 6: and strong theory. Right, It's an economy where the workers

548
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 6: who power the economy are doing well. It's an economy

549
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 6: where the consumers who's spending powers the economy, are doing well.

550
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 6: It's an economy where caregivers who's unpaid labor keeps the

551
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 6: economy afloat, are doing well. And it's an economy where

552
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 6: where companies have to play fairly, right, they have to

553
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 6: play by the rules. They can make a profit, they

554
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 6: can compete with each other, but there has to be

555
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 6: free and fair competition. She also has a clear theory

556
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 6: of what's wrong with the economy and why the economy

557
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 6: doesn't look like the healthy economy that she so desires.

558
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 6: And there, I think the answer is fairly clear, which

559
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 6: is that in the United States context, for years, companies,

560
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 6: through do regulation through tax cuts have really amassed outsized

561
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 6: power in our economy such that they're not actually competing anymore,

562
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 6: they're just controlling. She has supported, i think, in some

563
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 6: ways and omnivorous and sort of I would say policy

564
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 6: tool agnostic approach to fixing that problem. I mean, she

565
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 6: really supports any prescription, any surgery, any procedure that will

566
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 6: help get the economy back to a fair place that's

567
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 6: working good and well for workers and families. And so

568
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,479
Speaker 6: she supports having people like Lena Khan at the Federal

569
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 6: Trade Commission using every tool that the Federal Trade Commission

570
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 6: has to build that healthy economy, whether that's suing to

571
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 6: block the merger of Kruger and Alberton's, whether that's dusting

572
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 6: off regulatory authority at the FTC for the first time

573
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 6: in decades and issuing a rule to ban noncompete so

574
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 6: that workers can vote with their feet when they want

575
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 6: to leave a job, whether that's building the Consumer Financial

576
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 6: Protection Bureau to ensure that consumers a cop on the beat,

577
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 6: as she used to say, or someone advocating for them

578
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 6: in the mortgage process, in the credit card acquisition process. Right,

579
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 6: So she really supports that I think omnivorous approach. She

580
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 6: really is willing to turn over every rock, use every

581
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 6: tool in the toolkits, sort of whatever metaphor you want

582
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 6: to profer to build that economy. Look, I think it

583
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 6: is fair to say that many companies in the United

584
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 6: States have benefited from the exact opposite approach, which is

585
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 6: to say, a government and Congress who has mostly let

586
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 6: companies do what companies want to do. Whether that's an

587
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 6: FTC that rubber stamped mergers for decades, whether that's regulators

588
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 6: captured regulators in some cases who didn't pick up any

589
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 6: of the tools that they had to use to make

590
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 6: the economy more fairic poor consumers. Whether that's Congress whose

591
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 6: greenlit tax cuts under Democratic and Republican administrations. Right, we

592
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 6: have Reagan pushing tax cuts fifty years ago, we have

593
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 6: Bush pushing tax cuts, but we also have Obama extending

594
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 6: Bush tax cuts. Right, So I think we I've been

595
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 6: sort of working and rowing in one direction for a

596
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 6: really long time. You know, the Senator, and I think

597
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 6: many others who are inspired by her or enjoy working

598
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 6: alongside her in this broader movement, are interested in sort

599
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 6: of rerouting the ocean liner. And I think it is

600
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 6: threatening to many companies to see someone who's taking this

601
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 6: on aggressively, but frankly also effectively. The people that she's

602
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 6: put in positions of power in the White House, the

603
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 6: people she's helped mentor and support in agencies at the

604
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 6: state level, at the federal level, they're smart and they're effective.

605
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,800
Speaker 6: They're getting wins in the courts, they're getting wins in Congress,

606
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 6: they're getting wins in the administration. And so I think,

607
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 6: you know, if you're someone who benefits from a kind

608
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 6: of rigged status quo, then it's absolutely the case that

609
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 6: the warrant approach is a real threat to your model.

610
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So interesting. I hope you will come back.

611
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 6: I'd love to.

612
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how

613
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: awful Trump's second term could be? Well, so are we,

614
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,879
Speaker 1: which is why we teamed up with iHeart to make

615
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: a limited series with the experts on what a disaster

616
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five would be for America's future right now.

617
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: We have just released the final episode of this five

618
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: episode series. They're all available by looking up Molly Jong

619
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube. And if you

620
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: are more of a podcast person and not say a YouTuber,

621
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: you can hit play and put your phone in the

622
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 1: lock screen and it will play back just like the podcast.

623
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: All five episodes are online now. We need to educate

624
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: Americans on what Trump's second term would or could do

625
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: to this country, So please watch it and spread the word.

626
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: Sky Perryman is the president of Democracy Forward. Welcome back

627
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 1: to Fast Politics.

628
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 7: Sky, thanks for having me always get to talk to you.

629
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: So you and I we were both at the DNC

630
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 1: and we did a panel together. We're going to have

631
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: some snippets of the panel in this podcast because there

632
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: are some great things that people said, and we had

633
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: some great congresspeople there, Maxwell Frost, we had Jasmine Crockett,

634
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,479
Speaker 1: we had beca ballot. Sky explained is what your organization does.

635
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 7: Democracy Forward is a legal organization that believes that people

636
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 7: in communities in this country, all the vast majority of them,

637
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 7: want to embrace freedom and democracy, but to do that

638
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 7: they have to have representation in court because so many

639
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 7: of our rights and our freedoms are on the line

640
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 7: in courts and communities across the country. So we represent

641
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 7: people in communities across the country to disrupt anti democratic policies,

642
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 7: whether those are abortion bans or voter suppression initiatives, or

643
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 7: book bans or blacklisting companies, which is the state of

644
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 7: doing these days, I mean all kinds of things. And

645
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 7: then we also defend positive policies for people that the

646
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 7: democratic process has produced that are being challenged in the

647
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 7: courts by far right legal organizations and organisms, including those

648
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 7: that are behind Project twenty twenty five. We got our

649
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 7: start in the first year of the Trump administration when

650
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 7: it was clear that democracy and people in communities needed

651
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 7: some additional lawyers on the on the Tech took the

652
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,839
Speaker 7: Trump administration to court more than one hundred times. We

653
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 7: reversed a lot of problematic and harmful policies, and now

654
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 7: we have expanded our mission and are working in communities

655
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 7: across the country to disrupt extremism and build for the future.

656
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: So I want to say that you're one of the

657
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: groups that when Republicans try to break the law, and

658
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: they do in the state of Texas, is a really

659
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: good example. Remember they repealed ROW a year before the

660
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: Supreme Court did with SBA. So when Republicans try to

661
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: break the law, which is sort of their metier at

662
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: this point, you guys go in there and you fight.

663
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, when any extreme lawmaker, we're a non partis an organization,

664
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 7: But when any abuses their power to the detriment of

665
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 7: people in communities, we are one of the groups that

666
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 7: has the honor of being there on the front lines.

667
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 7: In Arkansas, Governor Sarah Huckabee Sanders signed into law a

668
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 7: measure that would have criminalized librarians, and so we went

669
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 7: in and were able to stop that on a pulmonary

670
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 7: injunction or continuing to litigate that case. Like I just said,

671
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 7: in Texas, this Texas Legislature and Greg Abbatt have a

672
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 7: law on the books that are blacklisting companies in the state.

673
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 7: Even though the thing it's a pro business environment, blacklisting

674
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 7: companies were there on the front line. And then in

675
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 7: West Virginia, of course we are there on the front

676
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 7: lines to help ensure medication of wortion access. So those

677
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 7: are some examples of the types of things that we do.

678
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: Right and things that should not be partisan It's a

679
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: really good point that this is about bad actors and

680
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: not it doesn't matter if they have a D or

681
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 1: an R next to their name.

682
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 7: Well, and the vast majority of people in this country,

683
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 7: they don't necessarily agree on all kinds of policy matters

684
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 7: are but most of the work that we have the

685
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 7: pleasure of doing are things that the vast majority of

686
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 7: people want. They want people to be paid fairly for

687
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 7: their work. They want people to be able to raise

688
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 7: their kids and take, you know, send them to a

689
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 7: school where there's not going to be a school shooting, right.

690
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 7: They want to be able to access healthcare and not

691
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 7: have women dying during pregnancy because of being deprived of

692
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 7: emergency here. And so, you know, we have the pleasure

693
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 7: of getting to really provide people in communities tools to

694
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 7: make their voice heard and to try to make society

695
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 7: more democratic and toward the terrible threats.

696
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 1: Yes, and I think that's a really important point. So

697
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: why don't we talk a little bit about kind of

698
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: what that looks like. So one of the things that

699
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: Trump did with his policy is that you never really

700
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 1: had policy proposals, but the people who got him into

701
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 1: office and paid, you know, and paid for his campaign

702
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 1: and his ads and the things that a presidential campaign needs.

703
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 1: Those people have policies they want, and so those groups

704
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: which are funded by those people put together a policy

705
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: sort of doctor are in called Project twenty twenty five. Now,

706
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: it turns out the reason that a lot of these

707
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: Republicans ever put stuff on paper is because it's very,

708
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: very very unpopular and in some cases illegal, what they

709
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: want to do. So talk to me about what that

710
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: looks like for you, guys. VERSUS Project twenty twenty.

711
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 7: Five for US, Project twenty twenty five showed the American

712
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 7: people what we fight against all day long, because we

713
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 7: have known and see in our work every day that

714
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 7: there is an ecosystem of far right extremists that do

715
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 7: not represent the vast majority of this country, but that

716
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 7: seek to wield a tremendous amount of political power. And

717
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 7: we saw that in the prior administration. We saw, for instance,

718
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 7: I was one of the lawyers that challenged the Pence

719
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 7: Cobok voter Commission. We're even in twenty seventeen former President Trump,

720
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 7: you know, he was seeking to undermine our trust and election.

721
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 1: Can you explain what the Pence Kobok Voter Commission.

722
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 7: Is yeah, because it's really all that after former President

723
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 7: Trump won the electoral College but did not win the

724
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 7: popular vote, he did not ascribe to the notion that

725
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 7: millions of people had actually voted for Secretary Clint And

726
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 7: so there was an effort in the early days of

727
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 7: the Trump administration called the Pence Kobok Voter Commission, that's

728
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 7: Vice President Pence and Chris Kobok, to seek to undermine

729
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 7: our confidence in our elections, to seek to intimidate voters,

730
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 7: including voters of color and voters who are immigrants, and

731
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 7: to challenge the counts and the elections. And they actually

732
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 7: set up they sought to set up panels around the

733
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,800
Speaker 7: country to investigate whether there was voter fraud, all because

734
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 7: the former president was unhappy and unwilling to admit that

735
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 7: he lost the popular vote. And so we and other

736
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 7: organizations filed a volume of lawsuits against that commission, and

737
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 7: actually the administration was forced to disband it are found fraud.

738
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 7: There was no fraud. This was a voter intimidation effort.

739
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 7: And I always like to bring this up because we

740
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 7: saw in those early days how this far right ecosystem,

741
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 7: these groups that you see behind Project twenty twenty five.

742
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 7: The former president has administration, many of whom, by the way,

743
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 7: many of the officials in the former administration have written

744
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 7: chapters of Project twenty twenty five. We're just sort of

745
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 7: deeply uncomfortable with the notion that the vast majority people

746
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 7: do not support what they believe in what they are

747
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 7: peddling to the American people, and so to us, Project

748
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 7: twenty twenty five is a manifestation of what we've known forever,

749
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 7: which is that there is this ecosystem that is seeking

750
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 7: to shape American policy in regressive ways, in ways that

751
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 7: are unpopular and that are harmful, and that are often unlawful.

752
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 7: And at Democracy Forward, we have put together a people's

753
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 7: guide to Project twenty twenty five, which you and I

754
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 7: have talked about before. Your listeners can get it at

755
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 7: democracyford dot org that really breaks down what is in

756
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 7: the document for people to understand a lot of this.

757
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 7: They try to hide this extreme and not you know,

758
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 7: in sort of policy language or nine hundred pages, hoping

759
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 7: that people won't understand. The encouraging thing is that we

760
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 7: know people are rejecting Project twenty twenty five and a

761
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 7: Democracy Forward, we want to make sure people understand and

762
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 7: I think this was one of the highlights of the

763
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 7: conversation you and I had the pleasure of having in

764
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 7: Chicago with our friends from Congress. But that product twenty

765
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 7: twenty five is already happening in states like Texas, you know,

766
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 7: Representative Crockett talked about that, in states like Florida as

767
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 7: Representative Frost.

768
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: And Oklahoma too, right and Oklahoma right.

769
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 7: It's happening in these states with anti democratic leadership, and

770
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 7: it's also happening in the courts that these a lot

771
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 7: of these people, a lot of these organizations are legal organizations,

772
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 7: and they're going into court to try to win in

773
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 7: court what they can't win among the American people, whether

774
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 7: that's seeking to ban medication abortion, which we've seen, whether

775
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 7: it's seeking to undermine over time or minimum wage protections.

776
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 7: So this is really a movement that's afoot in many

777
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 7: different ways in our society.

778
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: Can you expec ex blame to us how Congress works

779
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: sort of in tandem to organizations like.

780
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 7: This, Yes, And this is a good opportunity to also

781
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 7: highlight an organization that I have the pleasure being an

782
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 7: advisor for Demand Justice, which also co hosted the panel

783
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 7: with us Molly, you'll remember, yes, And there are a

784
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 7: number of things that Congress can do, and I was

785
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 7: really inspired to hear some of our congressional leaders mention it.

786
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 7: I mean, first of all, many of the things that

787
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 7: these far right organizations seek to do in court, Congress

788
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 7: could try to overturn through clear lawming. So that's in

789
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 7: all instances. Unfortunately many instances now these legal organizations are

790
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 7: claiming Congress has no power, which is something we're trying

791
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 7: to raise the alarm bell around. But there are things

792
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 7: that can be done through legislation. You've seen that President

793
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 7: Biden propose and no Person above the Law constitutional amendment,

794
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 7: which is something that would require state to do as well.

795
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 7: But another thing, and this is where demand justice comes in,

796
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 7: and I thought was a great part of the conversation

797
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 7: we had, is that many people think that they think

798
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 7: that our courts are untouchable and they are a coequal

799
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 7: branch of go They don't exist above the law either,

800
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 7: And so one thing that Congress can do is to

801
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 7: ensure that our courts are operating in ways that serve everyone,

802
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 7: to ensure that there are enforceable ethics codes at the

803
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 7: Supreme Court, which there are not currently to ensure that

804
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 7: the justices that are at the Supreme Court or operating

805
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 7: in accordance with ethics and not taking you know, gifts

806
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 7: and failing to disclose them or other ethical problems that

807
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 7: we've seen. And they have a lot of power to

808
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 7: control the way the federal judiciary, including the Supreme Court, operates,

809
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 7: and Congress has done so in the past, and so

810
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 7: I thought the conversation and you know, was really great

811
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 7: in terms of highlighting and a lot of the members

812
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,479
Speaker 7: of Congress highlighted the tools that Congress itself has, which

813
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 7: means that we the people have to fix some of

814
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 7: this extremism. And this Project twenty twenty five that we're

815
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 7: already seeing alive and well in communities and courts across

816
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 7: the country.

817
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 1: Can you explain to us what it means to put

818
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: together binding ethics code, like how that would work for

819
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court.

820
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 7: There's a range of ways that ethics codes can be enforceable,

821
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 7: but right now there's just no oversight. The Court is

822
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 7: sort of seeking to self police itself, and they've assured,

823
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 7: you know, Justice Roberts assured Congress that it could do that.

824
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:32,240
Speaker 7: And then we've had a whole host of a number

825
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 7: of examples of where ethics codes have been violated conflicts

826
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 7: of interest. There's a real concern, and so I think that,

827
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:44,280
Speaker 7: you know, both through legislation as well as through continued oversight,

828
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 7: it's really important. And so President Biden has recently proposed

829
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 7: an enforceable code of ethics and has urged Congress to

830
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 7: do that. There's a number of people on Capitol Hill,

831
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 7: both on the Senate side and on the House side,

832
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 7: working very hard. And then we have some members of

833
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 7: Congress have just had it and they want, you know,

834
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 7: they are seeking to investigate, and of course, you know,

835
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 7: Representative you know AOC filed impeachment charges in order to

836
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 7: raise I think awareness about the level of unethical conduct

837
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 7: that we're ce.

838
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 1: Do you think there is a world where you can

839
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: get the past? I mean, how would it work? It

840
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: would be a bill, Yeah, I do think.

841
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 7: So, what we know about the American people is that

842
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 7: while they may have some disagreements on policy, the vast

843
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 7: majority support freedom and support democracy. The vast majority of

844
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 7: people oppose restrictions on our freedom and restrictions on a

845
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 7: vision of our constitution that protects that freedom. You've seen

846
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 7: that in geographically diverse, you know, states across the nation

847
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 7: that are voting on abortion freedom initiatives. And we also

848
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 7: know that the Supreme Court's favorability rating is nearing historic

849
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 7: lows at this moment because of the range of problematic

850
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 7: conduct that we've seen out of the court. And that's

851
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 7: really a problem for democracy. By the way. You don't

852
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 7: want you don't want people to not have confidence in

853
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 7: their courts. And so I think that there are a

854
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 7: number of impolling has shown this, you know, is there

855
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 7: are a number of policy solutions that can help fix

856
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 7: the quandary that we're in where our courts are not

857
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 7: working for everyone, and some of our courts are reversing rights,

858
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 7: not protecting rights that are popular. And so a lot

859
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 7: of the work, I think is around education and making

860
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 7: sure that people and communities understand these are things that

861
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 7: their representatives have the power to do and to consider,

862
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 7: and ensuring that those people in communities are making their

863
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 7: voices heard. There is a recent campaign called Moms for

864
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 7: a Fair Court that I am my personal capacity and

865
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 7: a part of, but a lot of other Shannon Watts,

866
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 7: Fatima Goss grades, you know, many women are joining and

867
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 7: are part of that are really highlighting the importance in

868
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 7: our families and our communities on fair courts. And I

869
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 7: think more of those types of efforts are going to

870
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 7: be important to show the support that these basic protections have.

871
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 7: I mean, most people think the Supreme Court is already

872
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 7: under an enforce code of ethics, and we're shocked to

873
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 7: learn that it is not. And so these are not

874
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 7: proposals that should have a problem if there's a political

875
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 7: will to get them done right.

876
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: It's a really good point. And Roberts's really just sort

877
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 1: of fallen asleep at the switch, or perhaps this is

878
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 1: what he's always wanted. Can you sort of explain to

879
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: us what you can do in a state where the

880
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: state legislature has done craziness. I'm thinking of Oklahoma. Talk

881
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: to me about sort of one thing they've done and

882
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 1: how you and organizations like yours have pushed back on it.

883
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 7: Yes, I mean, well, a number of these states, and

884
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 7: you know Oklahoma is one, Texas is one, Florida are

885
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 7: passing laws and their legislatures that are deeply unpopular even

886
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 7: with their own people, because their legislatures are now a

887
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 7: function of gerrymanderd congressional districts, and the example that I

888
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 7: always give of that Molly is people forget that. In

889
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,879
Speaker 7: twenty eleven in Mississippi, in the state of Mississippi, far

890
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 7: right interests came in to try to pass a personhood

891
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 7: ballot initiative and put it to the vote of the

892
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 7: whole people, and it was rejected. And they the legislature

893
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 7: in Mississippi, which is you know, forced the functioning of

894
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 7: many years of jerrymandering, had to pass the law that

895
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 7: fundamentally became the law that led to the Dobbs decision

896
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 7: out of their legislature. Because even in Mississippi, when you

897
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 7: put these things to the people, they don't have work

898
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,720
Speaker 7: that they like. And so I think in some states

899
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 7: where ballot initiatives are an option and don't have to

900
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 7: be referred from the legislators, in Texas, they have to

901
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 7: be referred from the legislature, so people have, you know,

902
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 7: even further hurdles to have their voices heard. But I

903
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 7: think that's why you're seeing the rise of ballot initiatives

904
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 7: in the fight for ballot initiatives in these states right,

905
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 7: allowing people to actually vote on the issues when their

906
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 7: legislatures are failing to protect these things themselves. I think

907
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 7: in addition, though, the courts are a huge counterweight in

908
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 7: these states, and we find that even in states with

909
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 7: extremely far right leadership and where the courts are elected,

910
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 7: that litigation continue us to be a way to disrupt

911
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 7: the anti democratic activity. We win in difficult places all

912
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:12,320
Speaker 7: the time, and we also are able to provide opportunities

913
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 7: for people to make their voices heard through raising awareness

914
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 7: of the unlawful activity that these states are engaging in.

915
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 7: And so I think, you know, there is a deep

916
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 7: level of hope in what we call the hard places

917
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 7: here at Democracy Forward. We believe that's what the fight

918
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 7: for democracy is all about. It's not just about federal work,

919
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 7: although that's important too, It's also about the state and

920
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 7: local community work. And we see in our work every

921
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 7: day the hope that can exist when people in communities

922
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 7: have the tools they need to fight back, which is

923
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 7: what we are we really try to put people with.

924
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's really important, but it's also how

925
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: much of an effect does the Supreme Court zealotry have

926
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: when you're doing legislation.

927
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 7: We know that the US Supreme Court has emboldened a

928
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 7: real era of extremism that it sort of came from

929
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 7: it was shaped out of an era of extremism, and

930
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 7: extremism by the way that deprived President Obama and the

931
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 7: American people of present Obama's final nominee. We have to

932
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 7: remember how we got to this court then immediately ushered

933
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 7: in the confirmation of two justices, and then of course

934
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 7: later very late in the Trump term, just a month

935
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 7: before the election, quickly moved to confirm the third justice.

936
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 7: And then they even confirmed justices after Trump lost, Federal

937
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 7: justice after Trump lost. So we have to remember that.

938
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 7: But I think that you know, look, we know that

939
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 7: the Supreme Court is a reality, but what we've also

940
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,360
Speaker 7: seen is some of its extreme behavior is so extreme

941
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 7: it's been rejected by the Supreme Court. You know, in

942
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 7: the myth of pristone case, just this last term, the

943
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 7: Court nine zero said that the case never belonged in

944
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 7: the court. That tells you how extreme the Fifth Circuit

945
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 7: has become. When this Supreme Court is knocking that down.

946
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 7: And we know that that's not the end of the

947
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 7: fight on mif of pristone. But I just remember that.

948
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 7: But the other piece is I think that in many instances,

949
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 7: it shows people what's at stake, right, the need to

950
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 7: get engaged at all levels of government. It's not just

951
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 7: about your court case. It's also about making sure that

952
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 7: members of Congress, which is why I really appreciated the

953
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 7: conversation we had in Chicago understand the role that they

954
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 7: play and the role that we the people play in

955
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 7: making sure that our laws represent us. And so there

956
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 7: are famous, you know, cases where Congress has had to

957
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:25,320
Speaker 7: legislate after the Court has struck something down to correct

958
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 7: what the court has done. And then of course we

959
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 7: know that there is just work to be done in

960
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 7: this country to restore legitimacy to the Supreme Court so

961
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:37,839
Speaker 7: that we don't have historically low and ury concerning favorability

962
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 7: ratings of the Court, which is something that Congress can

963
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 7: do too, by ensuring that the Court is not above

964
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 7: the law and has to operate consistent with ethics. You know,

965
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 7: the consideration of term limits is important, thinking about jurisdiction

966
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 7: is important. So all the tools that Congress has, Thank you, Sky,

967
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 7: thanks for having.

968
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: And now for a special bonus, we have portion of

969
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 1: the conversation that we had at Democracy Forwards event at

970
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: the DNC with Congresswoman Becca A. Lint, Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett

971
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 1: and Congressman Maxwell Frost.

972
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 8: Project Plane five.

973
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:19,439
Speaker 9: Is really Trump's plan, and so this is if Trump went.

974
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 9: Maybe Trump doesn't want to do this, but the people

975
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 9: who are.

976
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 8: Actually gonna be in charge will be.

977
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 9: And so that is why we're focused on it, because

978
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 9: it really is the groundwork for what we're gonna do

979
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 9: to unwind a lot of our rights. And I'm gonna

980
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 9: start with Representative Crockett because you.

981
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 8: Are an oversight tell us.

982
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 9: About her many A viral video has come ProView on oversight.

983
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 10: Talk to us.

984
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 9: About your own oversight project twenty twenty five.

985
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 8: Is like, really, how can you fight against this? Talk

986
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 8: to us about what Oversight's job is. Also, talk to

987
00:55:57,920 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 8: us about being on oversight.

988
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 9: Didn't Republican polers right now that it's so controlled by

989
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 9: the far right.

990
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 8: So mollys to asking about Overside.

991
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 11: I just want to make sure that everyone knows that

992
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,839
Speaker 11: actually the three of us actually.

993
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 8: All started on Oversight together and none.

994
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,879
Speaker 11: Of us thought over side, and the three of us

995
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 11: actually all wanted to go to get to tradiiars and

996
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 11: Becca is the only one that needs no graduating.

997
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 8: And because it's this year, so Max and I are

998
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 8: still on overside, saw all three of us. That is

999
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 8: what we were. That was our introduction.

1000
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 9: Can you explain why they wanted judiciary or oversight?

1001
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 11: So I think for each of us it's probably a

1002
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 11: little different, but it's probably still all in the same

1003
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 11: judiciary For me as an attorney, obviously it's a safe

1004
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 11: space for me, and doing civil rights works on a

1005
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 11: lot of promote business work.

1006
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 8: That's where that legislation work.

1007
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 6: Cool.

1008
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 11: I will assume that Rebecca being a huge advocate for

1009
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 11: the LGBUSI a community, that's exactly where all of that

1010
00:56:58,200 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 11: legislation comes through.

1011
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 12: As well as most problem though that because I mean

1012
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 12: he started organizing in the streets around gun by lice

1013
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 12: and mass shootings and just getting guns off our streets.

1014
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 8: And again that legislation goes through judiciary, so.

1015
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 11: A lot of the things that in fact, I want

1016
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 11: to say that probably this freshman class had more requests

1017
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 11: that served as the freshman representatives to leadership. I honestly

1018
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 11: think the judiciary was the most requested committeed of our class,

1019
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 11: which really speaks to the things.

1020
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 8: That actually brought us to Congress. We have just an

1021
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 8: amazing bitch of.

1022
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 11: Freshmen who really care about the social issues and fairness

1023
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 11: and equity, and so these are the things that we

1024
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 11: fight towards, these things that brought us there.

1025
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 8: But to quickly kind of give you an idea of.

1026
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 11: What oversight does, because it obviously doesn't deal with judiciary,

1027
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 11: a guess which seems like it kind of sorder because

1028
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 11: we spent lots of time talking about the same stuff.

1029
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 11: So of course, if you if you go way way back,

1030
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 11: our very first hearing involves Hunter Biden and his.

1031
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 8: Laptop and his news. And then the very first thing

1032
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 8: that's not really what oversight is. It is.

1033
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 12: That's actually cor Marjorie Upsets, unsets with somebody's package. But nevertheless,

1034
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 12: you know, so old Side is really supposed to do

1035
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 12: the things that I think most Americans care about.

1036
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 8: Right when we think about the.

1037
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 11: Conversations that are happening about the war enforcing my dollars

1038
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 11: are going overseas.

1039
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 8: We really are supposed to make sure that there's no.

1040
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 11: Misuse, waste, or fraud in governments, whatever that is. And

1041
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 11: so we oversee all of the federal agencies and we

1042
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 11: are supposed to be the anyway basically how they're performing,

1043
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 11: and come up come up with legislation it will allow

1044
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 11: them to perform better.

1045
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 8: For the American people. Unfortunately, literally that what we've been doing.

1046
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 11: If you have tuned in to the drama that happens

1047
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 11: on overside, we have done everything but what we should

1048
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 11: be doing. In fact, they have used this committee really

1049
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 11: more so to push their political agenda. And because president

1050
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 11: who was the president, well that was their agenda. So

1051
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 11: it was all about in teaching the president, and then

1052
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 11: it went to the teaching May Orgust, and then it

1053
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 11: went to let's.

1054
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 8: Jail our attorney general.

1055
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 11: And so honestly, the day that Marjorie and I had

1056
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 11: our biggest spec because that was not those expect that

1057
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 11: we were there and we were supposed to be discussing

1058
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 11: whether or not we should hold the Attorney General of

1059
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 11: the United States and contents and potentially jail.

1060
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 8: That is what the hearing was supposed to be about.

1061
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 12: But the Republicans decided to take the field trips to

1062
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 12: New York you're with.

1063
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 11: And go hang out with their fearless orange slavior and

1064
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 11: in the criminal court room is where they were. So

1065
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 11: we did not have our hearing at ten am like

1066
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 11: were supposed to.

1067
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 8: Instead, they called this.

1068
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 11: In at eight m and Marjorie was still stuck on

1069
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 11: Judge Marshaun and what happened at court. And so that's

1070
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 11: kind of how the beginning of the evolution because as

1071
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 11: it relates to projects, when twenty five, I think a

1072
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 11: lot of the bad actors have probably come in front

1073
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:56,439
Speaker 11: of us.

1074
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 8: Another committee that I started.

1075
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 11: On this organization from the federal governments, and so I've

1076
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 11: had the Heritage Foundation in front of me more than

1077
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 11: once from and I'm also very familiar with them, and

1078
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 11: I'm Rebecca is as well because she works in the

1079
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 11: state legislature. And when you say things like Project tween

1080
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 11: twenty about governor here, that is because when you think

1081
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 11: about things like who's heard of crt oh no, yeah, right,

1082
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 11: So that was a whole gimme make at a gang.

1083
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 11: It just cleared right, right, But that was a gimmick

1084
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 11: and a ganger that came out of the Heritage Foundation

1085
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 11: that was making a move to make sure that we

1086
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 11: could delete certain portions of our piecetivity.

1087
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 4: Right.

1088
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 11: They handed down this legislation in state houses all throughout

1089
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 11: and usually it was in the Republican led houses that

1090
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:41,919
Speaker 11: this legislation would come through. Same thing with the six

1091
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 11: week abortion of bands. As we've seen throughout the country.

1092
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 8: They called it a Heartbeat bill in Texas.

1093
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 11: But again, this all happened and this was free docs,

1094
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 11: So I I just wanna be clear that this has

1095
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 11: been underway. What they decided to do is basically say

1096
01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 11: you know what we're gonna play in your places, and

1097
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 11: like you don't see what you see.

1098
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 8: It's over one.

1099
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 11: Thousand pages and it's laying out everything.

1100
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:05,920
Speaker 8: That they want to do.

1101
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 11: And for this idea of Trump separating himself, there is

1102
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 11: no daylights.

1103
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 8: He turned Trump at Projects twenty twenty five. And I'm

1104
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 8: not saying that just because I'm a proud immigrants.

1105
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:16,439
Speaker 11: I'm saying that because over thirty people that either worked

1106
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 11: on his administration or worked on his campaign are the

1107
01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:22,720
Speaker 11: authors of this right, So therefore there is no daylights.

1108
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 11: I will stop there because I'm like a lease have

1109
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 11: great things to add, and I'm sure we'll dig in

1110
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 11: a little bit differ.

1111
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 13: And I would also like to add that his name

1112
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 13: is mentioned. Trump's names mentioned three hundred plus times in.

1113
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 9: The document, which is a pretty good sign that it's back.

1114
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 3: You have done so.

1115
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 10: Much more for LGBT two protections, this Project twenty twenty five,

1116
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 10: which I think Jasmine has a really good point is

1117
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 10: already here is square a laye coming after your rights?

1118
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, it is here. And I want to just say

1119
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 8: I have no idea when I got.

1120
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 14: Cheated on unitionary that I would see the kind of

1121
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 14: hatred and vitriol and demonization directed at my community if

1122
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 14: we arey transcrimuted it.

1123
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 4: And it sneaks into hearings that aren't not even about

1124
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 4: anything related.

1125
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 8: To gender identity or sexuality. And it has become so

1126
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 8: clear to.

1127
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 4: Me that they want to make it so that there

1128
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 4: is a very narrow definition of what a legitimate American is.

1129
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 3: That's what it's about.

1130
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 8: It's about who who belongs and who doesn't.

1131
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 4: And one of the most hateful hearings I was ever

1132
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 4: part of was when the man who was now Speaker.

1133
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 8: Speaker Johnson was on that committee. He was on.

1134
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 4: Undistry, and he held essentially a fate hearing on the

1135
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 4: dangers of trans Americans.

1136
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 3: That's what it was.

1137
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 8: It was hours and hours of hatred.

1138
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 4: And so a man who purports to me a Christian

1139
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 4: is conducting a hearing specifically on that, and I just

1140
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 4: have to highlight for you one of the most poignant

1141
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 4: moments was looking at one of the witnesses that we called.

1142
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 8: Right, So when you're in.

1143
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 4: A hearing on judiciary, the majority gets to call the

1144
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:20,919
Speaker 4: bulk of the witnesses, and we get to call usually

1145
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 4: just foreign our tutors.

1146
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 8: And in this instant it was a.

1147
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 4: Conservative Republican Christian mom of a trans kid was our

1148
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 4: witness and she is sitting there being robby by these

1149
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 4: people because of the way that she showed up for

1150
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 4: her child.

1151
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 8: And that's what I'm talking about here.

1152
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 4: So it is constant, and I hear from constituents a lot,

1153
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 4: which is do they understand what it feels like for

1154
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 4: us to have our own government talking about us.

1155
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 8: People, human beings, citizens.

1156
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 4: And says hateful, hateful terms. And so I didn't know

1157
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 4: that that would be a lot of the work that I.

1158
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 8: Have to do on judiciary, but it is. I'm proud

1159
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 8: to be able to do that work. But as you said,

1160
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 8: it's already here. And when you look at what they

1161
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 8: want to do in Project.

1162
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:20,479
Speaker 4: Twenty twenty five, before I was in Congress, I before I.

1163
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 8: Was in politics at all, I was a teacher.

1164
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 4: I taught middle school love that Hell's Gate prepare me

1165
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 4: for commerce, and they was Project Trade twenty five two

1166
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 4: they want to criminalize teachers and linemprarians when they are.

1167
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 8: Simply trying to create.

1168
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 4: In their classrooms, in the whole libraries of support of

1169
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 4: the environment for all students.

1170
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 8: And that's what I want people to understand.

1171
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 4: That it is an incredibly narrow definition of who gets

1172
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:49,720
Speaker 4: to belong there, who is an American and this attack

1173
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 4: specifically on who are in trans people.

1174
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 8: This was set up before this term started.

1175
01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 4: Republicans got together and said, well, essentially we've lost the.

1176
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 8: Battle for saying sex marriage right.

1177
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,600
Speaker 4: The country has moved on everybody then to a lesbian wedding.

1178
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 8: Okay, we've all helped.

1179
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 4: People move with you all, we've all all be there,

1180
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 4: not as sary. So they said, what can we fire

1181
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 4: the base up on, and they settled on trans people

1182
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 4: And it is despicable.

1183
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 8: Maxwell Frost, you are a young person.

1184
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 13: I'm sorry I shouldn't say that because I was young

1185
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:25,960
Speaker 13: one anymore.

1186
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 8: How to get young people fired up?

1187
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 9: Like, how do you transmit this enthusiasm and we're seeing

1188
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 9: it now more than gapocrats have ever seen it, or

1189
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 9: at least recently, And how do you translate this into

1190
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 9: registration voting and almost more imprely, you know, pushing back.

1191
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:48,479
Speaker 11: On Project twenty twenty five.

1192
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 3: That's a good question because there's so much energy.

1193
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 15: Right now behind Vice President, behind the work that we're doing.

1194
01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 15: The questions like how do you take that energy and

1195
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:01,320
Speaker 15: put into real life action and actual votes? And what

1196
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 15: I was I still am an organizable when I wasn't organizing.

1197
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 15: What I'd always tell my organizers and I've worked for

1198
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 15: our lives is the true testament of our work isn't

1199
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 15: when if there's a shooting that happens and everybody cares

1200
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 15: about gun violence and everyone wants to talk about it,

1201
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 15: everyone wants to volunteer, and everyon wants to donate the

1202
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 15: media to talk about it.

1203
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 3: The true testament of our work is how strong are

1204
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 3: we when no one gives a damn? When no one's

1205
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 3: talking about how.

1206
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 15: Are we preparing ourselves for these Unfortunately, I hate to

1207
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 15: say this, eventual moments that happen in our country where

1208
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 15: there will be millions of people who are looking around

1209
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 15: as saying that's not right.

1210
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 3: What can I do?

1211
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 15: That's when it's our job as organizers, as people to

1212
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,040
Speaker 15: do this work to give people a political hope, to

1213
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 15: show people how they get a harness that energy towards the.

1214
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:50,959
Speaker 3: Future that they want.

1215
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 15: And if we hadn't prepared ourselves and our infrastructure to

1216
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 15: take those folks in, we could lose out on that moon, right.

1217
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 15: And the good thing about this moment that we're in,

1218
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 15: I feel like we are prepared as a movement, and

1219
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 15: this campaign is prepared because there are gonna be folks.

1220
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 3: Who are very fire up about the vice president who walk.

1221
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 15: Into an office who warn't off yours want to make

1222
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 15: bote caws. Like two or three days after the president

1223
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 15: passid Baton, I went to I was in Las Vegas, Nevada,

1224
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 15: for a few office openings and se.

1225
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 3: These events we're supposed to have like seventy five people

1226
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 3: of peace. I pull up the first one at four

1227
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty people at I just be like three oclos.

1228
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 15: The next one, it was supposed to be like a

1229
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 15: post guard party with twenty people. One hundred and twenty

1230
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 15: people people doing postcards in their cars because there wasn't

1231
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 15: room and people were just so excited.

1232
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 3: But here's the thing. And as someone who used.

1233
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 15: To do a lot of like pro organizing, sometimes our

1234
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 15: volunteer basically was a little old.

1235
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 3: But being in those rooms, it was actually very diverse.

1236
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 15: There was tons of high schoolers there who came there

1237
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 15: weren't groups of high.

1238
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 3: Schoolers who came together to do it together.

1239
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:01,040
Speaker 15: And that shows that our movement, the Vice president, what

1240
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 15: you're doing has gotten to the culture right, and that's

1241
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 15: when you have truly untapped movement. Potentially, think about any

1242
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 15: of the social movements in our country's history that have

1243
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 15: actually made a big difference. They all have combined and

1244
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 15: really blurred the lines between civics and culture right.

1245
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,600
Speaker 3: And so that we say on my campaign is like finding.

1246
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:24,720
Speaker 15: Ways to bridge the gap between pool and consciousness.

1247
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 11: When you do that.

1248
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 15: And it's not and it's authentic and it's not like

1249
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:30,080
Speaker 15: a printage.

1250
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 3: Things, I remember the remark for our lives, Like, I'm

1251
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 3: at the rally.

1252
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 15: In Orlando and I'm running into friends that like hate politics.

1253
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:37,920
Speaker 3: They never cared to have it, and I went up

1254
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 3: to them. I was like, why why do you call them?

1255
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 3: I'm curious?

1256
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 15: Are like, you know, one person, my friend Will made

1257
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:45,719
Speaker 15: a comp again with my friend's culture right, Like I

1258
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:47,640
Speaker 15: felt like I knew to d or all my friend's work, go,

1259
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 15: that's culture Ario and Brande told me it's different.

1260
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 3: But when we do that we really have attacked potential

1261
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:57,720
Speaker 3: and we have that right. That's why it's up to us.

1262
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:00,800
Speaker 15: But now the harnessings we're not going to win this

1263
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 15: race no matter what right it's gonna because we do

1264
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 15: the work.

1265
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 3: Nothing's gonna be handed here.

1266
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 15: And those decent moments when people feel validated, whether it's

1267
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 15: funny or exciting.

1268
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,679
Speaker 3: Or this and that, and this moment's making the culture.

1269
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 3: It's impactful. It brings more people in, right like when

1270
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 3: Chad when that happening and brought new people in right.

1271
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:22,720
Speaker 4: Right.

1272
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 3: But there's probably a.

1273
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 15: Lot of like YouTube pages and people like that who

1274
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 15: gave it on this like not like politicize, but now

1275
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:33,799
Speaker 15: they like, oh god, they're saying there seems she has going.

1276
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 3: On right like and like those messages getting cross little

1277
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:38,639
Speaker 3: by little. I think a lot of times in politics

1278
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 3: we've put.

1279
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:42,480
Speaker 15: A lot of fresh ourselves where like this one conversation

1280
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:44,440
Speaker 15: needs to change this person's.

1281
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:45,960
Speaker 3: Life, and they're there are knocking doors and put on

1282
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 3: the you know, because they're right and with Biden going

1283
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 3: with Hares.

1284
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 2: And everything like that.

1285
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:57,280
Speaker 3: But the reality is and is this work.

1286
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 15: I feel like we need to feel ourselves to work

1287
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 15: that we' as a part of somebody's time.

1288
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 3: Right, and it could be that pivotal moment for them,

1289
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,680
Speaker 3: and it might lead to that pivol And I think

1290
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:10,680
Speaker 3: as long as we're like rounded and bad, we were

1291
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:13,519
Speaker 3: all working on this team together. So I'm really excited

1292
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 3: about this moment.

1293
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 8: Young people are.

1294
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 3: Scared about the Project twenty twenty five.

1295
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 15: Obviously it's like a laundering list of a lot of

1296
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 15: conservative talking points and platforms and policies that a lot

1297
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:26,200
Speaker 15: of us know of. But the scariest part for me

1298
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 15: is a subvergent of democracy and the fact that the

1299
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 15: right wing is wising up. Like in twenty twenty, seventy

1300
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:36,560
Speaker 15: percent of gen Z voting for Democrats and half the

1301
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:40,719
Speaker 15: Genzkenu voting, So they see that. I guess young people

1302
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 15: don't like fascism and so they want to change the

1303
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:45,400
Speaker 15: way young people could think.

1304
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,560
Speaker 3: That's why that's one of the reasons that they're so

1305
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:48,799
Speaker 3: focused on education.

1306
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 15: That band looks changing what's spoken about intentionally marginalized public education,

1307
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 15: so everything is privatizing, it's even more control over what

1308
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 15: students get. But I think it's really having a backlash

1309
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 15: effect because it's not they're not changed to the spies.

1310
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 3: It's signal and they're going after work.

1311
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 16: There no moment, Jesse Cannon, Molly Jung Fast Who would

1312
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:20,600
Speaker 16: have thought that Justice Roberts was actually conservative?

1313
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,360
Speaker 1: I would have thought it, Yes, we all would have

1314
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 1: thought it. But some people seem to have been tricked. Yes,

1315
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: it's true. I guess some people didn't think he was

1316
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 1: a completely in the tank for Trump. But in New

1317
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: New York Times, Peace, which had a lot of leaked

1318
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 1: documents and interviews with people from the court, show that

1319
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 1: actually John Roberts is the man behind the curtain. He

1320
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 1: is the wizard in the Wizard of Oz, just like

1321
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:50,600
Speaker 1: we thought he was. And our moment of fuckery belongs

1322
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 1: to the guy who pretended to be a centrist but

1323
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: is really as brainwormed as Alito and Thomas. Your man,

1324
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 1: Justice Roberts. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.

1325
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the

1326
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:09,719
Speaker 1: best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos.

1327
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:12,680
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to

1328
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks

1329
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:16,719
Speaker 1: for listening.