WEBVTT - Interview With Byron and Charlie: Masters in Business (Audio) 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.520 The future may not be clear, but our commitment is 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:04.480 so when you sit with an advisor at Merrill Lynch, 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.240 we'll put your interests first. Visit mL dot com and 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.680 learn more about Merrill Lynch. An affiliated Bank of America, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:12.319 Mary Lynch makes available products and services offered by Merrill Lynch. 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:14.680 Pierce Federan Smith Incorporated, a registered broker dealer remember s 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:18.119 I PC. This week on the podcast, I have two 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:22.759 very extra special guests. Uh, this is really quite fascinating. 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.360 Byron Scott is a former l a Laker part of 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:30.120 the Showtime Lakers, won three national championships as a player, 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:35.880 went to the finals several times as a coach. Charlie 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:39.199 Norris is the former CEO of McKesson Water as well 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.239 as deer Park Water, who has a history of taking 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:48.000 these damaged or or floundering companies and turning them around 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:52.480 and selling them for a substantial uptick from from how 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.960 we found them. This is really a story of a 0:00:56.000 --> 0:01:01.840 fascinating friendship that developed over time, starting in an Equinox 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.360 gym in Los Angeles where Scott used to work out 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:12.200 after his playing days. Um, this is really a fascinating 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:16.040 tale of how these two gentlemen who could not look 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:20.240 more differently if you were seeing them from across the room, 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:24.959 and yet they turn out to be philosophically and temperamentally 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:29.640 so similar, and a fast friendship develops with a lot 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:35.040 of exchange of ideas in terms of how sports and 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:41.000 business have all these overlaps, questions of leadership, questions of motivation, 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:45.320 questions of threading your way through a variety of of 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:50.000 different challenges and how best to respond to them, And 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.760 what ends up happening is a a lifelong friendship develops 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.680 and at a certain point they kind of look at 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.200 each other and say, hey, there's a book here. We 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:05.160 really have to share what we've discovered. It's it's a 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:09.280 lovely story. I found the two of them to be 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:14.720 absolutely charming and delightful. My only regret is this interview 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:16.959 is barely an hour. I could have chatted with them 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.040 for another hour. They were They were just a blast. 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:28.400 So here are Charlie Norris and Byron Scott discussing corporate 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:35.000 leadership in the modern age. This is Masters in Business 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:42.200 with Barry Ridholtz on Boomberg Radio. My special guests today 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:47.120 are Byron Scott and Charlie Norris Byron was a NBA 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:50.640 player with the Showtime era Los Angeles Lakers, where he 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:56.320 won three national championships, playing alongside Magic Johnson, James Worthy, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.920 Kareem Abdul Jabbar. He went on to have a successful 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.000 career as a coach where he got two more championship 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:07.800 rings uh coaching the New Jersey Nets and the Milwaukee Bucks. 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.799 Is that right, Hornets? That's right who eventually became the 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:16.800 Charlotte Hornets and and his co author is Charlie Norris, 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:20.400 who is a successful businessman. He is the former CEO 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:25.200 and president McKesson Water. He helped take dear Park spring 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.120 Water to a new level where it was subsequently sold 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:34.360 off to Clorox Water was sold off to Dannon. Both 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:39.040 gentlemen co authored a book called Slam Dunk Success, Leaning 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:43.040 from Every position on Life's Court. Gentleman, Welcome to Bloomberg. 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.120 Thank you, Berry appreciate it. So we were talking earlier 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:48.960 and I said, you know, I'm really not a big 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:53.120 fan of business books using sports as a metaphor. They're 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.440 always cliche and blab, but this was a really fun book. 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.040 It's light and breezing, and it's filled with some really 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:05.240 smart insight. Tell us how this came about. Wow, Um, well, 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:08.040 I mean to kind of get in it, I guess, real, 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.400 real easily. From the beginning, Charlie and I met at 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.600 Equal Nuts in West Los Angeles nine years ago, and 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.120 a mutual friend introduced us. Uh, and after we met 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:19.760 a couple of weeks later, we started to do some 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.320 cardio workouts together and uh, you know, from then on 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:25.839 we started lifting weights and and basically we really just 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.440 started to get to know each other and workouts became 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.560 very intensified. And next thing you know, we're on the 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.159 map one day after one of our unbelievable workouts, and 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:37.440 we're both sitting there and Charlie says, b we should 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.320 write a book. And at the time, Barry, we you know, 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.880 we really looked at it, something very lightheartedly and maybe 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.080 a little paperback book, and we thought we would have 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:47.800 a bunch of pictures in there, and we were gonna 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.120 call it how to work Out when You're fifty years 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:52.479 and older. So I have to ask a question. You 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:57.479 said your workouts became intensified, sir, How did that happen 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.200 when the two you guys are just you know, either 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.680 of you are professional athletes. Any longer. You're both in 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:08.159 your one of us never was. That's you're both fifty 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.440 plus fifty and fifty five and sixty five along those 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:16.440 those age range. Thank you for that. How why did 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:19.040 the workouts become or at the time you're forty five 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.920 and sixty fifty five? Why did the workouts become more intensified? 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:25.400 Why were you driving each other to work harder? Well, 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.400 Charlie came to me and said, b I need to 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:29.880 lose weight. And I said, all right, Charlie, we're gonna 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.440 start lifting weights and we're gonna intensify the uh the 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.360 cardio workout. And you know, being an ex athlete, I 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:38.599 know how to work out, and I know how to 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.479 work out hard. And having a partner like Charlie, my 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:43.840 only problem at the time when we first got together 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:45.919 was wondering if he could really keep up with me, 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:48.839 and if if he could help me by pushing me 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:50.960 as well. I'm wondering if I could keep up with Charlie. 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:56.040 That's that's a good question, that's question. What Byron didn't 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.960 know is that I had run two marathons and I 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:03.080 and I'm always goal oriented, so you're both competitive to say, 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.520 and that did he push you? Did you have to 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:08.200 work out her? I mean, you know, the thing was 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.640 that he pushed me to be better and lift more 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.480 weights and and do some things on the on the 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.400 elliptical machine and a treadmill that I hadn't done before. 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:18.960 So it was a great match because we were able 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:22.800 to really push each other. There's a wonderful story in 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.320 the Bidding beginning of the book of how people just 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:27.760 keep coming up to you and saying, what is this 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:32.479 odd couple development? What was the general reaction to people 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:36.520 for you two guys. I want to come back even 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:40.640 a little further, because as we talked, I'm a Bostonian, 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:45.440 Byron being from Los Angeles, so you guys are natural enemies. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:50.600 And what he didn't tell what a surprise. But I 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:55.159 was a Laker hater from when I was in embryo, 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:59.880 and uh, then I have to ask, he's bragging on 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.839 elbowing Danny Ainge in the chin and that was that 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:07.640 was okay with that was okay with that. But I 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:12.080 really I met Byron, but it wasn't love at first 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:17.960 sight because honestly, I didn't know who Byron was and 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.760 I was observing him at the gym where we work out. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.400 It has a couple of floors, and Byron would be 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:26.200 down on the first floor. I'd be up on the 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.400 second on one of the cardio machines, and I'd watch him. 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:34.679 And what really impressed me was he was serious about 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.600 his workout, but if people came up to him, he 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.480 took time too. He didn't just brush them off. He 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.880 took time to talk to them, but kept going because 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.720 he wanted to stay on his workout without being rude 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.560 about it. And when we first met and started to 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:54.960 do things together, I was really impressed with the fact 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.440 that he knew the names of the people picking up 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:01.480 the towels in the gym, the people that were handing 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:05.920 out food in the downstairs, in the in the dining area. 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.040 He knew not only their names, but they're going to 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:13.360 night school, if they had kids. He really cared about 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:18.880 the front line everyday people. So I what really attracted 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.560 me to him was more than the question of his 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.760 leadership style was one of getting to the hearts of people. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.160 It was it was obvious to me, which is mine. 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:35.040 So back to your question, Uh, every day, five to 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.320 ten people would come up and say, what do you 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.280 two have in common? Why are you having so much fun? 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:43.600 Be you're gonna kill that old man? Why? Why you? Why? 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.560 Why are you working out together? But they never asked 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.079 the second question, which is, you know, it was sort 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.120 of an ironic question and then they go off to whatever. 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.480 But they never asked the second question, what do you 0:08:56.640 --> 0:09:01.920 really have in common? And on this particular day that 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:05.240 that Byron is alluding to, when we were sweating away, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.080 there must have been fifteen people who asked that question 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.800 and wandered off, And I said, there really is a 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.000 book here, because the book is not only the workout, 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:19.400 but this unlikely friendship. And really you can't judge a 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:22.760 book by its cover. Uh that we do have a 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.640 lot in common, but nobody takes the time to really 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:29.120 try to understand that. Coming up, we continue our conversation 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:33.719 with Byron Scott of the Lakers and Charlie Norris of McKesson, 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:39.360 discussing similarities between coaching a team and running a company. 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.760 I'm Barry Ridholts. You're listening to Master's in Business on 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.840 Bloomberg Radio. My special guests today are Byron Scott of 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:51.480 the NBA championship Los Angeles Lakers and Charlie Norris former 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:55.760 CEO and president of McKesson Water and Deer Park spring Water. 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.560 We were discussing the similarities between coaching a team and 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:04.920 running a business. What are the not so obvious overlaps 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:09.160 between these two endeavors and where do they differ. What 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:13.120 was a great experience for me UH when Byron got 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.240 the Laker coaching job. We started working out whenever they 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:21.600 were home. We started working out together virtually every day 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.760 at the Laker facility, and he included me in UH 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:30.559 film sessions with the players, coaches, meetings of the practices, 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:35.280 and I really started to see how his leadership style 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.559 in mind were aligned in in many ways. And one 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:44.520 of the similarities is you win if your team wins. 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.400 And how you score in business is a little different 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:52.160 than how you score in sport in our In our world, 0:10:52.480 --> 0:10:56.120 you score if you gain market share from the competition, 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:00.840 and market share is a huge indicator both of how 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:05.480 you're the consuming public views you, but also what you're 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.200 doing better than the competition to be gaining share. If 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:12.040 that's not you're not just buying it, you're gaining it, 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.240 and your profitability is going up with it. And that 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.680 clearly is a team exercise on a corporate level, it's 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.920 a total team exercise. And so back to an earlier 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:27.479 question you asked about why it's important to get to 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:29.840 be a people person and know what's going on with 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:34.400 the people. Uh, A very high percentage of our frontline people, 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.319 especially on the route, the route sales reps, they were 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:42.800 former athletes. Yeah, they were. They were former athletes. A 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:48.480 couple actually were former professional athletes, and they understand that 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.440 you have to get to have the back of the 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:55.559 people around you. And by that, if somebody is sick 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.600 one day, uh, the others would take over and make 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:03.000 sure that their customers reserved. They would help each other, 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.880 and sometimes they would move bottles from one truck to 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:11.760 another if one guy was already his truck was already empty, 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.880 and it was easier to have someone in the field 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:19.840 given bottles rather than to come back to the manufacturing facility. 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.560 And we wanted to make sure at every level people 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.240 understood that we're in it as a team. And so 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.559 things that I would do with Deer Park, for example, 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.800 even the union employees we gave a stock to. We 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.560 gave stock to everybody because if we were going to 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.400 be successful, UH, then we wanted the whole team to 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.959 be seen everybody. So then how do you incorporate your 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:51.320 then coaching the Lakers, how do you incorporate these big 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:57.160 business principles to managing people? How does that apply to 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.640 you know, I think of professional athletes as you know, 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:09.079 high strung, highest level. I it's a terrible um uh 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.199 way to conceptualize it, but these are people competing at 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:17.160 the very highest level of physical achievement. It seems that 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.640 would be a very different set of rules. Then let's 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.640 go sell more widgets today or am I completely wrong 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.040 and not? I think the rules are pretty much the same. 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.719 Like Charlie said, it's all about the teamwork and when 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.720 you have a team of five on that floor and 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:32.760 really it's a team of twelve or fifteen, because it's 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.600 the whole team. And one of the things that Charlie 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:37.840 taught me is that, you know, you have to put 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:40.520 the people, uh, the front line people at the top. 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:42.600 You know, he has his upside down pyramid that we 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.120 talked about, and the coaches at the bottom. You know, 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.600 so that twelve and at eleventh and tenth and ninth 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.920 and eighth guy is just as important as the number one, 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.760 number two guy on any team because at the end 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.080 of the day, as a teammate, when I played the 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.840 game of basketball, I didn't want to let my teammates down. 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:00.720 So I had to make sure every night I came 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:03.360 ready to play and do my part. And in turn, 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.559 our guys all felt that way. And as a team also, 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.920 you have to have it has to be one common goal. 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.680 You can't have all these guys have different goals because 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.319 it's not gonna work. And our whole gold and the 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:18.120 whole mindset was always win championships. Uh. We We didn't 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.360 care about the individual achievements because we knew if we 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.720 wanted as a team that everybody would win and everybody 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.520 would would would prosper from that, you know. So it's 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.320 very important for us to understand that the name on 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.080 the front of the jersey is much more important than 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:31.520 the name on the back of the jersey. And that's 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:33.400 how we kind of, you know, looked at it as 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.240 we do in business. When you know, when I'm dealing 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.160 with Charlie and we're talking business and I'm really just 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.800 you know, grabbing his coat tel and listening every world 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.520 he has to say. When I'm in these board meetings 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.440 and in these bank meetings. I get a kick out 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.360 of that because it's it's so much like basketball. You know, 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.360 everybody has to be on the same page in order 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:53.800 for it too. You know, he's not. He's not on 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:57.680 my coattail. In fact, what I found that is amazing 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.960 to me. Uh, If I ask another consumer package goods guy, 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.560 what do you think about this problem or this issue 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.960 with that personnel issue that we might have, I'll get 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.680 an answer that's probably pretty close to what my way 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.080 of thinking is because we grew up with studying the 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.240 same courses. When I asked Byron that question, I'll get 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:23.240 a very different answer, and often times that answer will 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.680 turn on the lightbulb. Boy, I never thought about it 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.440 that way. I've got to modify what I'm doing and 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.400 incorporate what he's suggesting. You have to take these elite 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.880 athletes and get them to perform really at the very 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:41.720 highest level. When you're working with staff employees, you want 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.600 them to do their best. But it's a very different 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.320 set of parameters. So so where are the differences. What 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.760 do you pick up from Byron that you can't get 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.880 from someone else in a package goods business. I can't, 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.400 I can't say that and make a generalization around that. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.520 But all I can tell you is I've on on 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.320 numerous occasions, said I'm having a problem with this person 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.240 or this issue, and he'll say, you know, this is 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:15.520 how I've done it in the past, and sometimes there's 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.240 something that will click, and I'll say, you know, I'm 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.840 gonna try to use that to see if I can 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.800 motivate the person better than I've been motivating him or 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:30.280 her in the past. Uh. And that's the same thing 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.800 with Charlie, where I've asked him a question that I 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:34.720 know I can go to one of my coaches and ask, 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:36.760 but I'm gonna get a I'm gonna get a basketball answer. 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.480 And you know, he sees the game. You know, he's 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:42.280 been in the meetings, he sees all the things that 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:45.120 we're doing. But I'm gonna get a very objective answer 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:47.360 from him that's totally different than what I would probably 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:49.560 get from my coaches. And the answer I would get 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.360 from them is something I probably expect to get, you 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:53.800 know what I mean. So Charlie puts it in a 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.000 different form where again, like he says, it kind of 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.320 clicks with me and it resonates and I can go 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:00.280 to that player and put it in a different form 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.960 where it makes sense. And we've used each other on 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.399 number of number of occasions that way, and uh, I 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:08.479 remember the last time we did that, you know, I 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.640 was so giddy. I was like, Charlie, that is fantastic. 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.919 I'm gonna go use this and it it worked extremely 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:15.879 well with the the young man I was talking to. 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.720 So you know, it's great that we can bounce things 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.720 off of each other because we're both getting a different perspective. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.800 I'm not giving him the old the old company you know, 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.200 you know answer, and he's not giving me the old 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.880 coach's answer, and I think that's what makes it really work. 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.359 Coming up, we continue our conversation with Byron Scott of 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:38.240 the Lakers and Charlie Norris of McKesson discussing what it's 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.320 like playing the game at the highest level. I'm Barry Ridhults. 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.000 You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.920 special guests today are Byron Scott, formerly of the Los 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:54.480 Angeles Lakers, and Charles Norris. He is currently chairman of 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.920 Fresh Pet. Previously he was CEO of McKesson Water. Let's 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.439 talk a little bit about playing the game at the 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:06.960 highest levels, be it sports or or business. Um, I'm 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.800 a I'm a big fan of of hoops and I 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:15.200 read not too long ago that Oscar Robertson has been 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:19.080 pretty rough on on some current players, saying saying that 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.880 they're soft today, that it's not like the old days 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.199 where you had a man up and get hurt and 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.920 play through the pain and what have you. What what's 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.080 your view on this? Has the game changed? Are these 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:34.639 modern players really soft? Yes? Really? Oscar is not pulling 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.600 any punches anybody never done. No, he never does. But 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.280 you know a lot of us old school players feel 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.840 that way, that the game has gotten a loss a 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.560 lot softer. Uh. You know, the freedom of movement, you know, 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.480 rule is totally different than it was back in the day. 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.760 You know, every time you got up and down the court, 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:54.639 you got hit. You know, back in the eighties and 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.439 the seventies and the nineties, Uh, there was no freedom 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.920 of movement. If it wasn't just every know, it was everybody, 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.080 I mean, everybody played by the same rules. Detroit just 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:05.080 took it to the you know, to the limit, you 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.920 know what I mean, and maybe sometimes a little over. 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:09.760 But but that was a part of the game. You 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:11.520 knew that you were gonna get hit when you went 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:13.520 to the basket, and you you accepted it. You get up, 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:15.200 you make your free throws, and you go down the court. 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.280 So the game has gotten a lot soffer and I 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.160 think for a lot of the reasons why is because 0:19:20.200 --> 0:19:22.080 the NBA wanted to open up the game a lot more. 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.280 They wanted to make it much more offensively friendly, because 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.840 they know the more you score, the more fans are 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.080 in there are in the seats, and the more fans 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.480 are watching watching the television, so the viewer, the viewership 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:37.600 becomes much more higher. So I understand it. Um. And 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.040 obviously the game right now is in a very good place. Uh. 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:42.760 And I do like the way the game is being played. 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.040 I you know, it's totally different than when I played. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.720 When it was inside out. Now it's outside in. And 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.840 you couldn't have had in a Golden State doing what 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.760 they're doing back in the eighties and nineties. Well they 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:55.760 could have. I still think I'm not gonna take anything 0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:58.159 from those guys because Curry is a great basketballer, a 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.920 big final Uh. But he would have been he would 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:03.679 have been beat up a lot, you know, back in 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.560 the day. So it's it's a lot more uh leaning 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:09.520 it towards guys that are that are smaller, and it's 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:12.679 really brought the smaller guy back into play because if 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:14.360 you could shoot it from deep and if you can 0:20:14.400 --> 0:20:16.760 handle the ball, then there's a place in the NBA 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.560 for you. So I grew up in the era of 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:25.520 Magic and Bird and Michael Jordan's and and and it 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:29.120 was I thought it was, you know, a long suffering 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:36.000 Knicks fan and the uh Starks Oakley uh era Patrick. 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.720 You know, of course it was. It was frustrating always 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.400 getting to Chicago and you know, more or less one 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.080 thing to roll away from making it into the finals. 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.119 But I thought that was a fun game and it 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.879 was a physical game. As much as it's fun to 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.400 watch on TV, it's totally different than it used to be. 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:57.840 It's it's yeah, it's faster. So have they ruined basketball 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:00.600 or is it? Have they commercialized? Well, I think they've 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:03.040 commercialized it a lot more. It's no doubt about that. 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.240 Ruined it is a is a very harsh word to 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:08.520 use in the NBA. I think the game is still 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:12.040 flourishing right now. You know, the game probably right now 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.480 is more popular than it's ever been, especially with Yeah, 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.000 especially with the fact that you know, from a social 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:22.159 media standpoint, you can go globally and I'm not I 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:23.920 don't think I would be crazy to say that there's 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:28.040 going to be an NBA overseas somewhere in the near future. Um, 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:29.879 you know, so the game is prosperous. I mean, the 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:33.040 game is doing extremely well. Uh, it's a great game 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.159 to watch when you've got teams like Golden State in 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:39.440 San Antonio, uh, Cleveland, teams that play what I call 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:41.960 the right way. You know, they played, they played a win, 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:45.000 and they're playing for individual glory. They playing the win championships. 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:48.919 And I think that's the beauty of basketball. So if Charlie, 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:52.480 if Byron brings you to the NBA headquarters and they say, listen, 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:54.680 we're having some concerns about the future of the game, 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.760 what what would you recommend they do to uh take 0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:03.760 to the next level? From a from a corporate perspective, Barry, 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:09.919 That's that's a really hard question because just fix I'm 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:14.000 not anything challenging. Just take a billion dollar industry and 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:18.199 make it better. Uh. Still that that's a hard question 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.640 when it comes comes to basketball, or what about their 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.800 own internal management. What what do you think they do well? 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.199 And what do you think they don't do well? I 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:30.560 could tell you, am I allowed to say this? I've 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:33.520 seen the four one k that the NBA has from 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:36.679 their own players, and it's terrible for their own employees. 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:39.200 Not that the players, but if you're an employee of 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.560 the National Basketball Association, your four O one case. Thanks. 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:45.119 I was shocked at that, which made me wonder what 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:49.760 else might they be doing well. I've had this conversation 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:55.000 on innumerable times with Byron and other friends of mine 0:22:55.000 --> 0:23:00.119 who had played in the NBA, and it's shocking to 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:04.800 me the percentage of players five years after they've retired 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:11.600