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Speaker 1: The future may not be clear, but our commitment is

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Speaker 1: so when you sit with an advisor at Merrill Lynch,

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Speaker 1: we'll put your interests first. Visit mL dot com and

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Speaker 1: learn more about Merrill Lynch. An affiliated Bank of America,

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Speaker 1: Mary Lynch makes available products and services offered by Merrill Lynch.

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Speaker 1: Pierce Federan Smith Incorporated, a registered broker dealer remember s

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Speaker 1: I PC. This week on the podcast, I have two

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Speaker 1: very extra special guests. Uh, this is really quite fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Byron Scott is a former l a Laker part of

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Speaker 1: the Showtime Lakers, won three national championships as a player,

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Speaker 1: went to the finals several times as a coach. Charlie

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Speaker 1: Norris is the former CEO of McKesson Water as well

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Speaker 1: as deer Park Water, who has a history of taking

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Speaker 1: these damaged or or floundering companies and turning them around

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Speaker 1: and selling them for a substantial uptick from from how

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Speaker 1: we found them. This is really a story of a

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Speaker 1: fascinating friendship that developed over time, starting in an Equinox

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Speaker 1: gym in Los Angeles where Scott used to work out

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Speaker 1: after his playing days. Um, this is really a fascinating

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Speaker 1: tale of how these two gentlemen who could not look

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Speaker 1: more differently if you were seeing them from across the room,

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Speaker 1: and yet they turn out to be philosophically and temperamentally

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Speaker 1: so similar, and a fast friendship develops with a lot

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Speaker 1: of exchange of ideas in terms of how sports and

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Speaker 1: business have all these overlaps, questions of leadership, questions of motivation,

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Speaker 1: questions of threading your way through a variety of of

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Speaker 1: different challenges and how best to respond to them, And

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Speaker 1: what ends up happening is a a lifelong friendship develops

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Speaker 1: and at a certain point they kind of look at

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Speaker 1: each other and say, hey, there's a book here. We

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Speaker 1: really have to share what we've discovered. It's it's a

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Speaker 1: lovely story. I found the two of them to be

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Speaker 1: absolutely charming and delightful. My only regret is this interview

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Speaker 1: is barely an hour. I could have chatted with them

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Speaker 1: for another hour. They were They were just a blast.

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Speaker 1: So here are Charlie Norris and Byron Scott discussing corporate

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Speaker 1: leadership in the modern age. This is Masters in Business

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Speaker 1: with Barry Ridholtz on Boomberg Radio. My special guests today

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Speaker 1: are Byron Scott and Charlie Norris Byron was a NBA

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Speaker 1: player with the Showtime era Los Angeles Lakers, where he

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Speaker 1: won three national championships, playing alongside Magic Johnson, James Worthy,

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Speaker 1: Kareem Abdul Jabbar. He went on to have a successful

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Speaker 1: career as a coach where he got two more championship

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Speaker 1: rings uh coaching the New Jersey Nets and the Milwaukee Bucks.

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Speaker 1: Is that right, Hornets? That's right who eventually became the

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Speaker 1: Charlotte Hornets and and his co author is Charlie Norris,

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Speaker 1: who is a successful businessman. He is the former CEO

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Speaker 1: and president McKesson Water. He helped take dear Park spring

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Speaker 1: Water to a new level where it was subsequently sold

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Speaker 1: off to Clorox Water was sold off to Dannon. Both

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Speaker 1: gentlemen co authored a book called Slam Dunk Success, Leaning

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Speaker 1: from Every position on Life's Court. Gentleman, Welcome to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Berry appreciate it. So we were talking earlier

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Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I'm really not a big

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Speaker 1: fan of business books using sports as a metaphor. They're

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Speaker 1: always cliche and blab, but this was a really fun book.

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Speaker 1: It's light and breezing, and it's filled with some really

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Speaker 1: smart insight. Tell us how this came about. Wow, Um, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean to kind of get in it, I guess, real,

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Speaker 1: real easily. From the beginning, Charlie and I met at

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Speaker 1: Equal Nuts in West Los Angeles nine years ago, and

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Speaker 1: a mutual friend introduced us. Uh, and after we met

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks later, we started to do some

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Speaker 1: cardio workouts together and uh, you know, from then on

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Speaker 1: we started lifting weights and and basically we really just

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Speaker 1: started to get to know each other and workouts became

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Speaker 1: very intensified. And next thing you know, we're on the

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Speaker 1: map one day after one of our unbelievable workouts, and

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Speaker 1: we're both sitting there and Charlie says, b we should

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Speaker 1: write a book. And at the time, Barry, we you know,

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Speaker 1: we really looked at it, something very lightheartedly and maybe

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Speaker 1: a little paperback book, and we thought we would have

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Speaker 1: a bunch of pictures in there, and we were gonna

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Speaker 1: call it how to work Out when You're fifty years

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Speaker 1: and older. So I have to ask a question. You

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Speaker 1: said your workouts became intensified, sir, How did that happen

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Speaker 1: when the two you guys are just you know, either

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Speaker 1: of you are professional athletes. Any longer. You're both in

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Speaker 1: your one of us never was. That's you're both fifty

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Speaker 1: plus fifty and fifty five and sixty five along those

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Speaker 1: those age range. Thank you for that. How why did

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Speaker 1: the workouts become or at the time you're forty five

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Speaker 1: and sixty fifty five? Why did the workouts become more intensified?

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Speaker 1: Why were you driving each other to work harder? Well,

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Speaker 1: Charlie came to me and said, b I need to

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Speaker 1: lose weight. And I said, all right, Charlie, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: start lifting weights and we're gonna intensify the uh the

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Speaker 1: cardio workout. And you know, being an ex athlete, I

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Speaker 1: know how to work out, and I know how to

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Speaker 1: work out hard. And having a partner like Charlie, my

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Speaker 1: only problem at the time when we first got together

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Speaker 1: was wondering if he could really keep up with me,

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Speaker 1: and if if he could help me by pushing me

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Speaker 1: as well. I'm wondering if I could keep up with Charlie.

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Speaker 1: That's that's a good question, that's question. What Byron didn't

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Speaker 1: know is that I had run two marathons and I

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Speaker 1: and I'm always goal oriented, so you're both competitive to say,

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Speaker 1: and that did he push you? Did you have to

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Speaker 1: work out her? I mean, you know, the thing was

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Speaker 1: that he pushed me to be better and lift more

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Speaker 1: weights and and do some things on the on the

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Speaker 1: elliptical machine and a treadmill that I hadn't done before.

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Speaker 1: So it was a great match because we were able

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Speaker 1: to really push each other. There's a wonderful story in

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Speaker 1: the Bidding beginning of the book of how people just

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Speaker 1: keep coming up to you and saying, what is this

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Speaker 1: odd couple development? What was the general reaction to people

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Speaker 1: for you two guys. I want to come back even

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Speaker 1: a little further, because as we talked, I'm a Bostonian,

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Speaker 1: Byron being from Los Angeles, so you guys are natural enemies.

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Speaker 1: And what he didn't tell what a surprise. But I

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Speaker 1: was a Laker hater from when I was in embryo,

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Speaker 1: and uh, then I have to ask, he's bragging on

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Speaker 1: elbowing Danny Ainge in the chin and that was that

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Speaker 1: was okay with that was okay with that. But I

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Speaker 1: really I met Byron, but it wasn't love at first

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Speaker 1: sight because honestly, I didn't know who Byron was and

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Speaker 1: I was observing him at the gym where we work out.

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Speaker 1: It has a couple of floors, and Byron would be

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Speaker 1: down on the first floor. I'd be up on the

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Speaker 1: second on one of the cardio machines, and I'd watch him.

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Speaker 1: And what really impressed me was he was serious about

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Speaker 1: his workout, but if people came up to him, he

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Speaker 1: took time too. He didn't just brush them off. He

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Speaker 1: took time to talk to them, but kept going because

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Speaker 1: he wanted to stay on his workout without being rude

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Speaker 1: about it. And when we first met and started to

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Speaker 1: do things together, I was really impressed with the fact

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Speaker 1: that he knew the names of the people picking up

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Speaker 1: the towels in the gym, the people that were handing

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Speaker 1: out food in the downstairs, in the in the dining area.

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Speaker 1: He knew not only their names, but they're going to

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Speaker 1: night school, if they had kids. He really cared about

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Speaker 1: the front line everyday people. So I what really attracted

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Speaker 1: me to him was more than the question of his

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Speaker 1: leadership style was one of getting to the hearts of people.

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Speaker 1: It was it was obvious to me, which is mine.

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Speaker 1: So back to your question, Uh, every day, five to

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Speaker 1: ten people would come up and say, what do you

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Speaker 1: two have in common? Why are you having so much fun?

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Speaker 1: Be you're gonna kill that old man? Why? Why you? Why?

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Speaker 1: Why are you working out together? But they never asked

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Speaker 1: the second question, which is, you know, it was sort

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Speaker 1: of an ironic question and then they go off to whatever.

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Speaker 1: But they never asked the second question, what do you

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Speaker 1: really have in common? And on this particular day that

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Speaker 1: that Byron is alluding to, when we were sweating away,

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Speaker 1: there must have been fifteen people who asked that question

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Speaker 1: and wandered off, And I said, there really is a

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Speaker 1: book here, because the book is not only the workout,

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Speaker 1: but this unlikely friendship. And really you can't judge a

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Speaker 1: book by its cover. Uh that we do have a

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Speaker 1: lot in common, but nobody takes the time to really

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Speaker 1: try to understand that. Coming up, we continue our conversation

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Speaker 1: with Byron Scott of the Lakers and Charlie Norris of McKesson,

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Speaker 1: discussing similarities between coaching a team and running a company.

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Speaker 1: I'm Barry Ridholts. You're listening to Master's in Business on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. My special guests today are Byron Scott of

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Speaker 1: the NBA championship Los Angeles Lakers and Charlie Norris former

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Speaker 1: CEO and president of McKesson Water and Deer Park spring Water.

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Speaker 1: We were discussing the similarities between coaching a team and

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Speaker 1: running a business. What are the not so obvious overlaps

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Speaker 1: between these two endeavors and where do they differ. What

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Speaker 1: was a great experience for me UH when Byron got

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Speaker 1: the Laker coaching job. We started working out whenever they

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Speaker 1: were home. We started working out together virtually every day

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Speaker 1: at the Laker facility, and he included me in UH

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Speaker 1: film sessions with the players, coaches, meetings of the practices,

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Speaker 1: and I really started to see how his leadership style

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Speaker 1: in mind were aligned in in many ways. And one

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Speaker 1: of the similarities is you win if your team wins.

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Speaker 1: And how you score in business is a little different

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Speaker 1: than how you score in sport in our In our world,

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Speaker 1: you score if you gain market share from the competition,

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Speaker 1: and market share is a huge indicator both of how

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Speaker 1: you're the consuming public views you, but also what you're

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Speaker 1: doing better than the competition to be gaining share. If

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Speaker 1: that's not you're not just buying it, you're gaining it,

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Speaker 1: and your profitability is going up with it. And that

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Speaker 1: clearly is a team exercise on a corporate level, it's

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Speaker 1: a total team exercise. And so back to an earlier

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Speaker 1: question you asked about why it's important to get to

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Speaker 1: be a people person and know what's going on with

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Speaker 1: the people. Uh, A very high percentage of our frontline people,

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Speaker 1: especially on the route, the route sales reps, they were

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Speaker 1: former athletes. Yeah, they were. They were former athletes. A

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Speaker 1: couple actually were former professional athletes, and they understand that

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Speaker 1: you have to get to have the back of the

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Speaker 1: people around you. And by that, if somebody is sick

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Speaker 1: one day, uh, the others would take over and make

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Speaker 1: sure that their customers reserved. They would help each other,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes they would move bottles from one truck to

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Speaker 1: another if one guy was already his truck was already empty,

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Speaker 1: and it was easier to have someone in the field

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Speaker 1: given bottles rather than to come back to the manufacturing facility.

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Speaker 1: And we wanted to make sure at every level people

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Speaker 1: understood that we're in it as a team. And so

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Speaker 1: things that I would do with Deer Park, for example,

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Speaker 1: even the union employees we gave a stock to. We

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Speaker 1: gave stock to everybody because if we were going to

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Speaker 1: be successful, UH, then we wanted the whole team to

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Speaker 1: be seen everybody. So then how do you incorporate your

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Speaker 1: then coaching the Lakers, how do you incorporate these big

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Speaker 1: business principles to managing people? How does that apply to

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Speaker 1: you know, I think of professional athletes as you know,

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Speaker 1: high strung, highest level. I it's a terrible um uh

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Speaker 1: way to conceptualize it, but these are people competing at

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Speaker 1: the very highest level of physical achievement. It seems that

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Speaker 1: would be a very different set of rules. Then let's

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Speaker 1: go sell more widgets today or am I completely wrong

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Speaker 1: and not? I think the rules are pretty much the same.

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Speaker 1: Like Charlie said, it's all about the teamwork and when

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Speaker 1: you have a team of five on that floor and

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Speaker 1: really it's a team of twelve or fifteen, because it's

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Speaker 1: the whole team. And one of the things that Charlie

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Speaker 1: taught me is that, you know, you have to put

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Speaker 1: the people, uh, the front line people at the top.

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Speaker 1: You know, he has his upside down pyramid that we

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Speaker 1: talked about, and the coaches at the bottom. You know,

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Speaker 1: so that twelve and at eleventh and tenth and ninth

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Speaker 1: and eighth guy is just as important as the number one,

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Speaker 1: number two guy on any team because at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, as a teammate, when I played the

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Speaker 1: game of basketball, I didn't want to let my teammates down.

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Speaker 1: So I had to make sure every night I came

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Speaker 1: ready to play and do my part. And in turn,

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Speaker 1: our guys all felt that way. And as a team also,

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Speaker 1: you have to have it has to be one common goal.

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Speaker 1: You can't have all these guys have different goals because

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Speaker 1: it's not gonna work. And our whole gold and the

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Speaker 1: whole mindset was always win championships. Uh. We We didn't

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Speaker 1: care about the individual achievements because we knew if we

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Speaker 1: wanted as a team that everybody would win and everybody

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Speaker 1: would would would prosper from that, you know. So it's

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Speaker 1: very important for us to understand that the name on

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Speaker 1: the front of the jersey is much more important than

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Speaker 1: the name on the back of the jersey. And that's

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Speaker 1: how we kind of, you know, looked at it as

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Speaker 1: we do in business. When you know, when I'm dealing

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Speaker 1: with Charlie and we're talking business and I'm really just

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Speaker 1: you know, grabbing his coat tel and listening every world

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Speaker 1: he has to say. When I'm in these board meetings

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Speaker 1: and in these bank meetings. I get a kick out

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Speaker 1: of that because it's it's so much like basketball. You know,

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Speaker 1: everybody has to be on the same page in order

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Speaker 1: for it too. You know, he's not. He's not on

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Speaker 1: my coattail. In fact, what I found that is amazing

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Speaker 1: to me. Uh, If I ask another consumer package goods guy,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about this problem or this issue

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Speaker 1: with that personnel issue that we might have, I'll get

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Speaker 1: an answer that's probably pretty close to what my way

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Speaker 1: of thinking is because we grew up with studying the

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Speaker 1: same courses. When I asked Byron that question, I'll get

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Speaker 1: a very different answer, and often times that answer will

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Speaker 1: turn on the lightbulb. Boy, I never thought about it

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Speaker 1: that way. I've got to modify what I'm doing and

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Speaker 1: incorporate what he's suggesting. You have to take these elite

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Speaker 1: athletes and get them to perform really at the very

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Speaker 1: highest level. When you're working with staff employees, you want

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Speaker 1: them to do their best. But it's a very different

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Speaker 1: set of parameters. So so where are the differences. What

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Speaker 1: do you pick up from Byron that you can't get

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Speaker 1: from someone else in a package goods business. I can't,

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Speaker 1: I can't say that and make a generalization around that.

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Speaker 1: But all I can tell you is I've on on

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Speaker 1: numerous occasions, said I'm having a problem with this person

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Speaker 1: or this issue, and he'll say, you know, this is

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Speaker 1: how I've done it in the past, and sometimes there's

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Speaker 1: something that will click, and I'll say, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna try to use that to see if I can

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Speaker 1: motivate the person better than I've been motivating him or

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Speaker 1: her in the past. Uh. And that's the same thing

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Speaker 1: with Charlie, where I've asked him a question that I

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Speaker 1: know I can go to one of my coaches and ask,

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Speaker 1: but I'm gonna get a I'm gonna get a basketball answer.

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Speaker 1: And you know, he sees the game. You know, he's

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Speaker 1: been in the meetings, he sees all the things that

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Speaker 1: we're doing. But I'm gonna get a very objective answer

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Speaker 1: from him that's totally different than what I would probably

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Speaker 1: get from my coaches. And the answer I would get

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Speaker 1: from them is something I probably expect to get, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. So Charlie puts it in a

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Speaker 1: different form where again, like he says, it kind of

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Speaker 1: clicks with me and it resonates and I can go

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Speaker 1: to that player and put it in a different form

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Speaker 1: where it makes sense. And we've used each other on

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Speaker 1: number of number of occasions that way, and uh, I

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Speaker 1: remember the last time we did that, you know, I

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Speaker 1: was so giddy. I was like, Charlie, that is fantastic.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go use this and it it worked extremely

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Speaker 1: well with the the young man I was talking to.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's great that we can bounce things

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Speaker 1: off of each other because we're both getting a different perspective.

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Speaker 1: I'm not giving him the old the old company you know,

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Speaker 1: you know answer, and he's not giving me the old

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Speaker 1: coach's answer, and I think that's what makes it really work.

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Speaker 1: Coming up, we continue our conversation with Byron Scott of

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Speaker 1: the Lakers and Charlie Norris of McKesson discussing what it's

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Speaker 1: like playing the game at the highest level. I'm Barry Ridhults.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My

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Speaker 1: special guests today are Byron Scott, formerly of the Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles Lakers, and Charles Norris. He is currently chairman of

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Speaker 1: Fresh Pet. Previously he was CEO of McKesson Water. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about playing the game at the

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Speaker 1: highest levels, be it sports or or business. Um, I'm

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Speaker 1: a I'm a big fan of of hoops and I

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Speaker 1: read not too long ago that Oscar Robertson has been

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Speaker 1: pretty rough on on some current players, saying saying that

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Speaker 1: they're soft today, that it's not like the old days

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Speaker 1: where you had a man up and get hurt and

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Speaker 1: play through the pain and what have you. What what's

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Speaker 1: your view on this? Has the game changed? Are these

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Speaker 1: modern players really soft? Yes? Really? Oscar is not pulling

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Speaker 1: any punches anybody never done. No, he never does. But

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Speaker 1: you know a lot of us old school players feel

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Speaker 1: that way, that the game has gotten a loss a

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Speaker 1: lot softer. Uh. You know, the freedom of movement, you know,

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Speaker 1: rule is totally different than it was back in the day.

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Speaker 1: You know, every time you got up and down the court,

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Speaker 1: you got hit. You know, back in the eighties and

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Speaker 1: the seventies and the nineties, Uh, there was no freedom

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Speaker 1: of movement. If it wasn't just every know, it was everybody,

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Speaker 1: I mean, everybody played by the same rules. Detroit just

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Speaker 1: took it to the you know, to the limit, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, and maybe sometimes a little over.

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Speaker 1: But but that was a part of the game. You

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Speaker 1: knew that you were gonna get hit when you went

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Speaker 1: to the basket, and you you accepted it. You get up,

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Speaker 1: you make your free throws, and you go down the court.

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Speaker 1: So the game has gotten a lot soffer and I

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Speaker 1: think for a lot of the reasons why is because

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Speaker 1: the NBA wanted to open up the game a lot more.

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Speaker 1: They wanted to make it much more offensively friendly, because

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Speaker 1: they know the more you score, the more fans are

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Speaker 1: in there are in the seats, and the more fans

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Speaker 1: are watching watching the television, so the viewer, the viewership

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Speaker 1: becomes much more higher. So I understand it. Um. And

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Speaker 1: obviously the game right now is in a very good place. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I do like the way the game is being played.

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Speaker 1: I you know, it's totally different than when I played.

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Speaker 1: When it was inside out. Now it's outside in. And

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Speaker 1: you couldn't have had in a Golden State doing what

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Speaker 1: they're doing back in the eighties and nineties. Well they

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Speaker 1: could have. I still think I'm not gonna take anything

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Speaker 1: from those guys because Curry is a great basketballer, a

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Speaker 1: big final Uh. But he would have been he would

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Speaker 1: have been beat up a lot, you know, back in

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Speaker 1: the day. So it's it's a lot more uh leaning

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Speaker 1: it towards guys that are that are smaller, and it's

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Speaker 1: really brought the smaller guy back into play because if

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Speaker 1: you could shoot it from deep and if you can

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Speaker 1: handle the ball, then there's a place in the NBA

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Speaker 1: for you. So I grew up in the era of

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Speaker 1: Magic and Bird and Michael Jordan's and and and it

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Speaker 1: was I thought it was, you know, a long suffering

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Speaker 1: Knicks fan and the uh Starks Oakley uh era Patrick.

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Speaker 1: You know, of course it was. It was frustrating always

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Speaker 1: getting to Chicago and you know, more or less one

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Speaker 1: thing to roll away from making it into the finals.

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Speaker 1: But I thought that was a fun game and it

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Speaker 1: was a physical game. As much as it's fun to

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Speaker 1: watch on TV, it's totally different than it used to be.

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Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, it's faster. So have they ruined basketball

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Speaker 1: or is it? Have they commercialized? Well, I think they've

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Speaker 1: commercialized it a lot more. It's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 1: Ruined it is a is a very harsh word to

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Speaker 1: use in the NBA. I think the game is still

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Speaker 1: flourishing right now. You know, the game probably right now

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Speaker 1: is more popular than it's ever been, especially with Yeah,

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Speaker 1: especially with the fact that you know, from a social

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Speaker 1: media standpoint, you can go globally and I'm not I

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Speaker 1: don't think I would be crazy to say that there's

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Speaker 1: going to be an NBA overseas somewhere in the near future. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, so the game is prosperous. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: game is doing extremely well. Uh, it's a great game

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Speaker 1: to watch when you've got teams like Golden State in

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Speaker 1: San Antonio, uh, Cleveland, teams that play what I call

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Speaker 1: the right way. You know, they played, they played a win,

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Speaker 1: and they're playing for individual glory. They playing the win championships.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's the beauty of basketball. So if Charlie,

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Speaker 1: if Byron brings you to the NBA headquarters and they say, listen,

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Speaker 1: we're having some concerns about the future of the game,

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Speaker 1: what what would you recommend they do to uh take

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Speaker 1: to the next level? From a from a corporate perspective, Barry,

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Speaker 1: That's that's a really hard question because just fix I'm

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Speaker 1: not anything challenging. Just take a billion dollar industry and

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Speaker 1: make it better. Uh. Still that that's a hard question

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Speaker 1: when it comes comes to basketball, or what about their

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Speaker 1: own internal management. What what do you think they do well?

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Speaker 1: And what do you think they don't do well? I

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Speaker 1: could tell you, am I allowed to say this? I've

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Speaker 1: seen the four one k that the NBA has from

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Speaker 1: their own players, and it's terrible for their own employees.

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Speaker 1: Not that the players, but if you're an employee of

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Speaker 1: the National Basketball Association, your four O one case. Thanks.

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Speaker 1: I was shocked at that, which made me wonder what

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Speaker 1: else might they be doing well. I've had this conversation

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Speaker 1: on innumerable times with Byron and other friends of mine

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Speaker 1: who had played in the NBA, and it's shocking to

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Speaker 1: me the percentage of players five years after they've retired

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Speaker 1: who are totally bankrupt, to have no career direction. And

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Speaker 1: clearly it's it's getting worse and worse because back in

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Speaker 1: the day you had to be three years out of college.

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Speaker 1: Today year one year and you can and many many

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Speaker 1: of the players go overseas for that year and don't

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Speaker 1: do college at all. Coming up, we continue our conversation

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Speaker 1: with Byron Scott and Charles Norris, authors of Slam Dunk Success,

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Speaker 1: Leaning from every position on life's court, discussing the changing

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Speaker 1: worlds of business. I'm very rich Halts. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special guests today

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Speaker 1: are Byron Scott of the l A Lakers and Charlie Norris,

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Speaker 1: currently chairman of Fresh Pet former CEO of McKesson Water.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the world of business

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Speaker 1: today and and these are some questions that I pulled

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Speaker 1: pretty much right from the book. You discuss the importance

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Speaker 1: of being transparent and honest in every one of your

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Speaker 1: interactions with clients with employees. How important is that sort

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Speaker 1: of transparency and honesty to to business today. I think

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Speaker 1: it's hugely important. M My my view is there's no

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Speaker 1: dumb person and everybody if you're the leader of an organization,

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Speaker 1: and especially if you're a leader who's who gets out

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Speaker 1: with the employees as much as I did. And I'll

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Speaker 1: come back to that in a second. Uh, the employees

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Speaker 1: are watching you, and they're watching what you say and

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Speaker 1: how you behave and what what you do. And if

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Speaker 1: you don't walk the talk, uh, they'll know it, and

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Speaker 1: they won't respond as favorably. And the in fact, they

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Speaker 1: won't respond favorably at all if they think that you're

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Speaker 1: you're up there and you're just raking in your your

430
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: salary and your bonus, and you don't care what's happening

431
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: to the business or happening to them in their own lives.

432
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: So when I got to McKesson Water Products them there

433
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: was one reserve parking space. There was one reserved parking

434
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 1: space in the whole company, and it was mine. And

435
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: the first thing I did in my first day on

436
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: the job was eliminate that one reserved parking space. Then, uh,

437
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: did people recognize that and understand why you did that?

438
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: Right away? We had fifty odd locations and consultants said

439
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 1: we were like a an African village in terms of

440
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: bongo drums, telling different systems, and oh yeah, and and

441
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: i'd I'd say two days later, everybody in those fifty

442
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: locations it heard some uh, some story around that somewhere

443
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: around that act. You said early in the book when

444
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: you came to McKesson, if you didn't do something to

445
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: restructure the company, all people would lose their jobs when

446
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: the company went bankrupt. So you had to let go

447
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: a thousand people. And Byron, you talk about what it's

448
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: like being cut and what it's like to have to

449
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: let a player go. How do you go about making

450
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: those having those difficult conversations. What's the best approach for

451
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: for those sorts of things. Well, first of all, I

452
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: was the new guy on the block, and there was

453
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: several people internally who felt that they should have gotten

454
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: the CEO role who were already there. I had a

455
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: water background, but East coast, and I was coming to

456
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: the West coast, so I were there East co West

457
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: coast water battles like East Coast West Coast or is it? Well,

458
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: I can imagine you know, this is this is this

459
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: is an interesting story. On the East coast, it was

460
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: largely office delivery. On the West coast, over fifty of

461
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: our sales were too homes, not just two offices. On

462
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: the East coast it was large, at least with with

463
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: Deer Parket was all Teamsters unions. On the West coast

464
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: there was very there were pockets of union largely non

465
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 1: union and on the West Coast. I was just shocked

466
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: when I first got there that there were bulges in

467
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: the pockets of our route sales reps. I was saying,

468
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,959
Speaker 1: what are you, what are you? What are in your pockets? Well,

469
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: they all had massive amounts of keys, and I'd say

470
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: that up to half of their accounts. The people had

471
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: given them the keys to their home, the house keys,

472
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: house keys. If they weren't home, they could bring the

473
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: bottle into the kitchen or wherever the water cooler was,

474
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: take off an empty, put on a full, or put

475
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: it inside the house. And to take this to the

476
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: next level, when we did research on how did customers

477
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: who had a relationship with the route rep how did

478
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: they view our company versus customers who didn't have a

479
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: relationship and didn't see the route wrap on on a

480
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: frequent basis when they were making deliveries. Well, if they

481
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 1: saw the route wrap, the water tasted better, the road

482
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: truck was cleaner, the water cooler, the water dispatched was

483
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: warmer and colder. Everything was better. The the quit rate

484
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: amongst those customers who saw the route rep on a

485
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: regular basis was dramatically lower than the quit rate was

486
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: of people who didn't see the route. No substitute for

487
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: pressing the flesh, none whatsoever. So back to this, I

488
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: made sure that every one of our senior managers were

489
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: out on a route at least every three months, and

490
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: they had to deliver half the bottles, and they had

491
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: to go to all the different parts of the country.

492
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: So they had to be in the summer in Phoenix,

493
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: they had to be in the winter in Pennsylvania. They

494
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: had to they had to live what those route reps

495
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: were doing on on a daily basis. Every one of

496
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: the senior managers had to be in the call center

497
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: we were taking we had when I got toward the

498
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: end of when I was there, we had over eight

499
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: hundred thousand UH customers. We were taking hundred calls a day.

500
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: They had to go in, answered calls with the customers,

501
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: find out what the issues were, and really live what

502
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: the frontline people were experiencing. And all of a sudden,

503
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: the people said, Wow, they really are paying attention to

504
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: what we're doing. And across the board, the managers were

505
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: much smarter about what needed to change from the policies

506
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,479
Speaker 1: we currently had in place. So, so you said I'm

507
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: gonna I didn't answer, by the way, you're so, let's

508
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: stay with that. Because so, how do you fire a

509
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: thousand people and make it not be the most miserable

510
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: experience for everybody involved? Well, first of all, I had

511
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: to paint the picture of what was wrong with the organization.

512
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: Nobody is going to be comfortable with that level of

513
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: staff reduction if there isn't a clear reason why you're

514
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: doing it, and you describe in the book, you have

515
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: two hundred thirty people in the finance division for a

516
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: company with two thirty million dollars in sales, it's probably

517
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: ten times what you need to run that best. We

518
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: the way the company was grew it was through acquisition,

519
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: and there was never a time when they integrated all

520
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: of the companies. It was a hodgepart so if if

521
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to buy another company, I would have to

522
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: set up another SPU. So we had seven separate spu

523
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: s strategic business units doing the same thing seven different ways,

524
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: with seven separate chart of accounts, and a consolidation finance

525
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: group that put it into language that could go to

526
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: McKesson Corporate. It was way way overstaffed, So so you

527
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: paint a picture and you basically get everybody, if not

528
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: to buy in, at least understand the company's going out

529
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: of business. And if we don't make major changes, everyone

530
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: loses their jobs. So it makes that easier how but

531
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: there was one other thing. I didn't do this myself.

532
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: A I had smart people around me, and we set

533
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: up across the board task forces made up of the

534
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 1: frontline people to come back with their own recommendation. That

535
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: was really interesting in the book What needed to Change,

536
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: where some people said, hey, my own position is duplicated

537
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: three places some of us. That's amazing to get employees

538
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: to say you need to either fire me or fire

539
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: people like me because there are too many of us

540
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: for the amount of business we have. How does how

541
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: do you do this? At a as a coach, you

542
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: describe the exit you had from the Lakers after what

543
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: is it ten years, eleven years, three championships? So so

544
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: you said that was like a graceful How often have

545
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: you fired? And you'll get out and leave? But basically

546
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: everybody done really good terms and as tearful as it was.

547
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: What was the life lesson Jerry West tought you when

548
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: you left? Well, you know the one thing you know,

549
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: Jerry West the logo taught me as you don't burn bridges.

550
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: The logo for people who aren't basketball fans, anytime you

551
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: see the NBA logo, that is Jerry West. Jerry West,

552
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 1: and so his nickname the logo is the logo. We

553
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: called him that very affectionately, but it was it was

554
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: crazy because he brought me into the Lakers. He made

555
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: a trade that was very unpopular at the time. Uh,

556
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: and you know, we end up winning three more championships.

557
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: And then when he brought you in, he pulls you

558
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: aside and says, hey, everybody hates me for this trade,

559
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 1: and in three years they're gonna call this the greatest

560
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: trade I've made. How does that make you feel? When

561
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: you're nervous, your rookie, you're starting out, well, the first

562
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: thing that does, Barry puts a whole lot of pressure

563
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: on you, you know what I mean. And it was

564
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: great for me because I knew that at that particular

565
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: time that he had a lot of faith in me,

566
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: and also knew that I wasn't gonna let him down,

567
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: you know, because he stuck his neck out for me.

568
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: So uh. It was a and it still is, an

569
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: unbelievable relationship that I had with the logo. Uh. But

570
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 1: when he wanted to change directions, you know, it was

571
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: very tearful for both of us. And I knew he

572
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: was doing it because it's a business decision that had

573
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: nothing to do with being personal about it. And I

574
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: also knew that, you know, because of the way he

575
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: had treated me or I was going to leave on

576
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: very good terms. You know, even though I wanted to

577
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: still be a Laker for life, I understood the business

578
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 1: of basketball. There's sometimes these decisions have to be made.

579
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: We have been speaking with Byron Scott of the l

580
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: A Lakers and Charlie Norris of Fresh Pet and McKesson Water.

581
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this conversation, check out our podcast after Us,

582
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: where we keep the tape rolling. You can find that

583
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: at Apple iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. Read my

584
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: daily column at Bloomberg View dot com, or follow me

585
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: on Twitter at rid Holts. I'm Barry Ridholts. You've been

586
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. What could

587
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: your future hold? More than you think? Because at Merrill

588
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 1: Lynch we work with you to create a strategy built

589
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: around your priorities. Visit mL dot com and learn more

590
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: about Merrill Lynch. An affiliated Bank of America. Merrill Lynch

591
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: makes available products and services offered by Merrill Lynch. Pierce

592
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 1: Federan Smith, Incorporated, a register broker dealer. Remember s I PC.

593
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast. Thank you guys for doing this.

594
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: It's it's a privilege and it's I find this sort

595
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: of stuff a lot of fun. I really enjoy doing this.

596
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: I know I only have you for a short period

597
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: of time. There was one question I did not get

598
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: to and this applies to both you. You tell the

599
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: story Byron early in the book about after the trade,

600
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: the Lakers make it through the Western Um Conference finals,

601
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 1: and you go back into the locker room and you're

602
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: ready to celebrate and their old business and the team

603
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 1: culture as we only sell celebrate winning championships. You sell Charles,

604
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 1: you sell McKesson for over a billion dollars when you

605
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: had basically taken over a company that was a mess

606
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: a few years earlier. At what point do you after

607
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: you achieve that level of success do you stop and say,

608
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: now what I mean? Is it anticlimactic? How do you

609
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: keep motivated after you do what you set out to do?

610
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: I remember reading about Michael Jordan's having, you know, the

611
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: whole gambling discussion was he needed something else after the

612
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: third or fourth or fifth or sixth championship. He needed

613
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: something else to motivate him. How do you keep motivated

614
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,959
Speaker 1: after you achieve your goals? Well? For me, you know, uh,

615
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: winning is the ultimate motivation factor for me um in

616
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: that eight four when we got to the finals and

617
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to run in the locker room and celebrate

618
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: and magic, and all the guys kind of looked at

619
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: me crazy. It's like, no, no, no, we we don't

620
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: celebrate Western Conference champions We celebrate NBA champions And that

621
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: year we lost to the Celtics, you know, my rookie year.

622
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: So the next year was much easier, obviously to get

623
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 1: wrapped up for because you just had a disappointing season

624
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: and in our rise, you know, getting to the finals

625
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: and losing wasn't you know, was it was a failure

626
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: season for season for us. So the next year we

627
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: win the championship. And I think after every time that

628
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: we won a championship, I wanted to win another one,

629
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: you know. And and that's that's the the mark of

630
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 1: of of a great champion is that you you're just

631
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: not living on your laurels. You're not thinking about what

632
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: you just did in the pass. You're worried about the

633
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: next year and the next year and the next year.

634
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: And the guys I played with, it wasn't very difficult

635
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: to get up for that next year. You know, those

636
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: guys were all driven, just like I was, and we

637
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: want to win. We wanted to win as many championships

638
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: as possible. Ronney Lot, who I know, you know, a

639
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: very good friend of mine, and when he was with

640
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: the forty nine before they went on their championship runs,

641
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: you know, we were talking one day and he asked

642
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: me the same question, what keeps you guys going? And

643
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: I said, but we only got a short amount of

644
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 1: time in this profession, you win as many as you

645
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: can while you can take advantage of the situation. And

646
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,399
Speaker 1: I remember he did a Sports Illustrated story and told

647
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: the guy the exact same thing that we had talked about,

648
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, So that was my motivation. Factors that nobody remembers,

649
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: Barry how many points I scored in my career. But

650
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: every time my name comes up in the conversation, they'll

651
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: say how many championships did you win? Two? Or three? Four?

652
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: And they're always really close, you know, But if I

653
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: asked them three as a players, didn't win As a coach,

654
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: I went. I went to twice. But they always remember

655
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: how many championships you won. Nobody remembers unless you are

656
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: really a basketball history geek. That I scored over fifteen

657
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: thousand points in my career, and I was on a

658
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: team with three unbelievable Hall of famers, really four, because

659
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: Bob was on the team as well. You started eighty

660
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: two consecutive games? Was it three seasons? Is that? Is

661
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: that right? I think three out of four seasons started

662
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 1: well today, Yeah, because guys rest all the time. You

663
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: know again, going back un who seems to be running well,

664
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: you know what, Lebron is the only guy to me

665
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: and the league that can say if I need a

666
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: day off, that nobody should ever question. And he runs

667
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: more minutes than any other more more minutes per game

668
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 1: than anybody. He's went to the final six straight years.

669
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you know how hard that is, So nobody

670
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: should ever complain if Lebron James came out and said, uh,

671
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: you know what, guys, I'm gonna take the day off,

672
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: there should not be one person in the world that says, oh,

673
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: that and that's not right. He's the only guy to

674
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: me right now in the NBA that can say I

675
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: want a day off, and there shouldn't be a question

676
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: about could he play back in your era? Do you

677
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: think Lebron James could get in the time machine go

678
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: back to the eighties and be competitive in that time period. Absolutely,

679
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: because a lot of players that you could say that

680
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: about I don't either, you know, Kobe Bryant was one

681
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: that I thought was a old school, you know type shack.

682
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: Lebron James is definitely one of those guys that would

683
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: still be uh in Hall of Famer in the eighties

684
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: because he has all the skills. He has the magic

685
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: Johnson skills of being able to see the floor, make

686
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: players better that are around him, and when need be,

687
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 1: can take over games. So Lebron, yes, absolutely, So we

688
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: were talking about not spiking it in the end zone.

689
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: After you have a big success, What do you do

690
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: after you sell a company for more than a billion dollars,

691
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: you get yourself a nice paid a how do you

692
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 1: not say, Okay, I'm the best, I don't need to

693
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: do anything else. What what's the next step for you? Charlie? Well,

694
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: in my case, I was exhausted through that whole process

695
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: of turning around McKesson water sleepless nights you describe. It

696
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: was not easy. It's not easy, and you know, we

697
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: were talking about eliminating a thousand positions. That was a

698
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: horrible thing, right, but you still everyone has survivor's guild. UH.

699
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: The company had UH certainly a culture of embracing, not

700
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: uh willie nilly firing people. They always found a new home.

701
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: And UH it was the whole that whole experience was

702
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: just a really difficult one, UH on the heels of

703
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,959
Speaker 1: a similar thing with Deer Park. And so I took

704
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: a year where I UH thought what did I want

705
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 1: to do next? And my family decided we we ended

706
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: up having a set up a donor advised trust with

707
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: the California Community Foundation because we wanted to become much

708
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 1: more active in philanthropy. UH and UH during that year,

709
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: I started to reach we we did a business plan

710
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: for philanthropy, and my wife and my two kids and

711
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: I each had our own areas and we started to

712
00:41:55,320 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: go out and and look at uh different organizations to

713
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: see which ones we wanted to support. And in my case,

714
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: I was involved with children at risk and job creation

715
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:17,879
Speaker 1: and we actually created a prototype of a UM operation

716
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: that combined UH life skills training with sport and at

717
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: the end of that if if the kids did both

718
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: the life skills training and U participated in the work

719
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 1: at the sport workouts, which were basketball. We gave them

720
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: a hundred hours of a paid internship at a company

721
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: so they would start to get a feeling about what

722
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 1: it was like working and they all ended up having

723
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: better grades. And Byron is the poster childhood this as well,

724
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: because he does tremendous work with a summer basketball camps

725
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: and again is doing the same type of things. So

726
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: that was an area. Uh. And then I started to

727
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: think about what I wanted to do next, and with

728
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: the help of a friend of mine, Rick Kane, who

729
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: um founded Kane Capital Advisors, we started to buy businesses

730
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: and I started to get on boards, and I was

731
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: still very active in business, but not the day to

732
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: day responsible person for you know, running it. When you say,

733
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,240
Speaker 1: people look at you two is so different because visually

734
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 1: you're different. But you know, I have the advantage of

735
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: having spoken with you for forty five minutes. It's pretty

736
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: obvious why there's a friendship here, and there's an overlap

737
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: and interest because you guys really are cut from the

738
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: same cloth, even though you're coming from completely different places.

739
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: I only have you that well, it's apparent just listening

740
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 1: to you both talk with such enthusiasm about the things

741
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: you're talking about and it makes you realize how people

742
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: are superficial. He's a white guy in a black eye.

743
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: Oh they must be completely different people. Not really, but

744
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: you know what with what we've done and and uh,

745
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: Byron Um is brilliant about taking a moment, taking a

746
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: deep breath, and then saying I'm going forward, I'm not

747
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: going backward. And literally one day after his coaching with

748
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: the Lakers ended, he was already into what where am

749
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 1: I going next? What where am I going to do?

750
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: And if if you're wired like that, I will never

751
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: not be doing something and trying to do it at

752
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: the best that I possibly can. And Byron is a

753
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: hundred like that. In the book, you reference getting to

754
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: know the various people when you came into McKesson, and

755
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: you reference knowing everybody who worked in the forum practically

756
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 1: from the hot dog salespeople to the people swept the

757
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: floor at night. What is the mean to running a business,

758
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: running a company to really know your staff, your suppliers,

759
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: your competitors, your clients. How important is that? Well? I

760
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: think it's extremely important. Um. And like Charlie said, I

761
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: try to treat everybody the way I want to be treated.

762
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: Uh So, getting to notice security guards at the form

763
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: when we walk in and know their backgrounds and know

764
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: their family members and know what type of uh things

765
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 1: they have in store and what they want to achieve

766
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: in life. Is getting them to understand that you do

767
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: really care about them. And it's the same with your players. Uh,

768
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: it's the same with my coaches, you know. So I

769
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: make it a point uh to get to know them

770
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: on a personal level as well as a professional level.

771
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: And you know what, to be honest with you, all

772
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: these years that I had been doing that, I didn't

773
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: know that that was a form of being a great leader.

774
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 1: It was just something that came natural to me. And

775
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 1: tell I met Charlie and we started writing down some

776
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 1: of the things that we thought would make a great leader.

777
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: And when he started telling me, you know, we have

778
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: to get to the heads and hearts of people and

779
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: be you do it naturally, then I start really thinking

780
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: about it. You know. But it was something that just

781
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 1: really came natural to me because I think it was

782
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 1: something that was instilled to me at a very early

783
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: age by my mom and my dad. Uh, you know

784
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: that old saying, Like my mom used to say, you know,

785
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: you treat people the way you want to be treated,

786
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: and that's how I kind of took it. And so

787
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: getting to know that the guy at the hot dogs stand,

788
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: getting another guy us to selling the T shirts, getting

789
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: to know the guy that's on the floor that's one

790
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: of the security guys in the in the red jackets,

791
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: getting to know Tony, our man at the at the

792
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: security when we would come into the lake a facility

793
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: to work out. You know, they appreciate that because now

794
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: you make them feel they're important, and they are. And

795
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 1: I thought that was very important that every job that

796
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: I've been to to get to know the other people.

797
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 1: Are the people that really make the company running in

798
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: in Charlie's case, or make that arena really work. Are

799
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: the people that people don't see on an everyday basis. Now,

800
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: I'll take it one step further, and I think this

801
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: supplies to Byron's world as well as mine. Um with

802
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: mckets and Water Products Company, we had dread employees and

803
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: a very high percentage of them touched the end user

804
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: every single day. And if you can't have those people

805
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 1: feel comfortable telling you whether your programs are working or

806
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 1: not working, what needs to change If they don't feel

807
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: that you care about what they're saying. Then you've lost it.

808
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: You have no chance of being successful, uh, running that business.

809
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: And we got to the point where we stopped doing

810
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: customer satisfaction surveys. All we did were employees satisfaction surveys

811
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: because I knew if the employees were happy, if they

812
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: felt that they were heard, the customer would would be

813
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: happy with our product and service. Discipline basically brings different

814
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: related ideas that you get to apply in a in

815
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: a different way. Yeah, I'll give you an example of

816
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: one thing that we talked about that because of timing

817
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: being never got to incorporate, but we were. We were

818
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,320
Speaker 1: one day talking about, uh, it's in many ways pot

819
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:18,400
Speaker 1: luck with the draft and and uh what uh uh

820
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 1: the drafted player, how well that person might fit in

821
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: with the organization once they're there. And I said, have

822
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: you ever considered psychological testing of the prospective draftees before

823
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: you actually go out and draft them? And he said, no,

824
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: we've never done that. And so we started talking about

825
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: how we use it when we're hiring in business and

826
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: and Byron thought, you know, this is something I really

827
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: want to bring to what I'm doing. So that was

828
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: that was an example, where uh, from my end to

829
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,919
Speaker 1: to his, it was clearly an opportunity that hadn't been

830
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 1: considered before. So so what should the This is true

831
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: for professional sports. There was a big Sports Illustrated article

832
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,720
Speaker 1: about ten years ago about the number of football players

833
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 1: were and this was before the whole um concussion trauma

834
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: issue became Yeah, I mean in in the in the NFL,

835
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: you have the issue of uh, the average lifespan of

836
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 1: an offensive alignment is some ridiculously early twenty years exactly.

837
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: I mean, so what should they What should professional sports

838
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 1: leagues be doing two develop some financial literacy for for

839
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 1: their places. I know, I know what the problems are

840
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: with the collective bargaining agreements, and I know what the

841
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,879
Speaker 1: agents are allowed to do are not allowed to do.

842
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,760
Speaker 1: But at some point I think it would be really

843
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: important for the league to and for the unions to

844
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: find a way to manage force players to uh manage

845
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: money better. Uh. Perhaps there'd be a way to hold

846
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,479
Speaker 1: back a certain percentage, like having a four oh one

847
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: K or some other plan of that nature, and make

848
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 1: it a forced requirement to ensure that the players have

849
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 1: money five years or seven years after retirements. Easy enough

850
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: to to build something like that well, But on the

851
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: other hand, you want to treat everybody as an adult,

852
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 1: and it has to be done in a way that

853
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,439
Speaker 1: everyone believes it's in their best interest. And I think

854
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 1: that's that's the hardest thing, to get them to feel

855
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: that they're not going to live forever in play forty

856
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: years in the NBA or in the NFL or whatever,

857
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: that they have to do this to secure their future. Gentlemen,

858
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much

859
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Speaker 1: for being so generous with your time. We have been

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Speaker 1: speaking to the authors of Slam Dunk Success, Leading from

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Speaker 1: Every Position on Life's Court, written by Byron Scott and

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00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 1: Charlie Norris. If you enjoy this conversation, be sure and

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00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: look up and entered down an Inch on Apple iTunes

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00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 1: or Bloomberg dot Com or SoundCloud for our other hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty nine or so of these conversations. I would

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Speaker 1: be remiss if I did not thank my head of research,

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Speaker 1: Michael bat Nick, my producer booker Taylor Riggs, my recording

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Speaker 1: engineer Medina Parwana. I'm Barry Ridhults. You have been listening

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Speaker 1: to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. Our world is

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00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 1: always moving, so with Mery Lynch, you can get access

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Speaker 1: to financial guidance online, in person or through the app.

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00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: Visit mL dot com and learn more about Mery Lynch.

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Speaker 1: An affiliated Bank of America, Mary Lynch makes available products

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00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: and services offered by Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Feder and Smith,

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Speaker 1: Incorporated or Registered Broker Dealer remember s I PC