1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Colz Media A warning. 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 2: This episode includes violent content which some listeners might find disturbing. 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 3: I'm Michael Phillips, an historian, the author of a history 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 3: of racism in Dallas called White Metropolis, and the co 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 3: author with longtime journalists Betsy Freoff, the history of eugenics 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 3: in Texas called Purifying Knife. 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 2: And I'm Stephen RONCHOLLI I'm an investigati journalist in Dallas 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: who specializes in political extremism and the far right. And 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 2: I report for places like the Texas Observer, the Barbed Moire. 10 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 3: And more like millions across the United States. Mark Anthony 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 3: Strohman was startled by the events then folded on the 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 3: terrible morning of September eleventh, two thousand and one. The 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 3: disbelief that greeted that terrorist attacks against the World Trade 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 3: Center and the Pentagon can be heard on the first 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 3: announcement of the tragedy on a Dallas talk radio station WBAP. 16 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 4: All right, thank you our seven point fifty one, nine 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 4: minutes before eight o'clock a dues talk a twenty WBAP 18 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 4: here on the here on the Tuesday morning. And the 19 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 4: reason I am hesitating here there's a word of a 20 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,919 Speaker 4: plane crashing into the World Trade Center in downtown Manhattan, 21 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 4: and the World Trade of plane actually crashing and to 22 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 4: the side of the World Trade Center. We're going to 23 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 4: have details for you on that from ABCDWS in just 24 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 4: a couple of moments. 25 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 3: Strowman later wrote that September eleventh filled him with a 26 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 3: great sense of rage, hatred, loss, bitterness, and utter degradation. 27 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 3: He blamed Arabs and Muslims as a group for the 28 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 3: events that day and wanted to quote those Arabs to 29 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 3: feel the same sense of insecurity about their immediate surroundings. 30 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 3: I wanted to feel the same sense of vulnerability and 31 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 3: uncertainty on American soil. Strowman, Dallas resident, had already served 32 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 3: two prison terms, during which he had joined the Aryan 33 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 3: Brotherhood prison gang. Adicted to meth and sporting neo Nazi tattoos, 34 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: he began cruising Dallas in his nineteen seventy two Chevy 35 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 3: Suburban hunting for quote unquote Arabs. As he later admitted, 36 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 3: he wasn't entirely sure what an Arab looked like, but 37 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 3: nevertheless he stalked people with quote shawls on their faces. 38 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 3: Stroman launched his crusade by running cars into ditches. If 39 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 3: he suspected the vehicles were driven by Muslims, he escalated 40 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 3: his campaign of terror. On September seventeenth, two thousand and one, 41 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 3: he fatally shot Wakhar Hassan, a forty six year old 42 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 3: Pakistani immigrant, as the clerk grilled to hamburger at Mom's 43 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 3: Grocery in Dallas. A few days later, Stroman found his 44 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,679 Speaker 3: next victim, a farmer pilot for Bangladesh's Air Force named 45 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 3: Rased Bouyan. Mister Bouyan, who has experienced robberies prior to 46 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 3: his encounter with Stroman, told us what happened that day. 47 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 5: At the Maturity First two thousand and one. To us 48 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 5: friday eron Juden, a customer walked in wearing bandana, sunglasses, 49 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 5: baseball cap and holding a double barrel a sort of 50 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 5: double barrels shotgun on his right side. And from the 51 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 5: previous rubbery experience, I thought it would be and the robbery. 52 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 5: So I put all the money on the counter and 53 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 5: offered in the cash as soon as he walked in, 54 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 5: and I said, sir, here is all the money, take it, 55 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 5: but please do not shoot me. Basically I begged for 56 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 5: my life and his gaze remained fixed, and then he 57 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 5: mumbled a question, where are you from. Before I could 58 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 5: say anything more than excuse me, he pulled the trigger 59 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 5: from point blank ring. I felt it first, like a 60 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 5: million bees were singing my friends. And I looked down 61 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 5: and saw blood pouring like an open faceter from the 62 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 5: right set of my head. And I remember screaming mom 63 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 5: about my voice. And I looked down some block pouring 64 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 5: like an open boset from the right set of my head, 65 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 5: and then I looked left. I saw the gunman still standing, 66 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 5: pointing at a director of the phrase, and I realized 67 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 5: that if I did not, you know, do something to 68 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 5: show that I'm dying, he might shoot be again. So 69 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 5: I fell to the floor and he finally left a 70 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 5: few seconds beyond. 71 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 2: Survived the attack, but he was blinded in his right eye. 72 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: He would endure not only multiple painful surgeries, but also 73 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 2: the unique financial horrors of the American healthcare system. Meanwhile, 74 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 2: Strowman was not done terrorizing the Dallas area Muslim community. 75 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: On October fourth, the shooting spree came to an end 76 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,679 Speaker 2: when the white supremacist pulled up to a shell station 77 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 2: in Mesquite at about six forty five in the morning 78 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 2: and ordered the clerk, nine year old Vasa Dev Patel, 79 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: a Hindu immigrant from India, to hand over all the 80 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 2: money from the cash register. Patel reached under the counter 81 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 2: for a twenty two caliber pistol, and seeing the gun, 82 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: Stroman fired his weapon. The bullet struck Patel in his 83 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 2: chest and killed him. A security camera captured the scene, 84 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: and Dallas police arrested Stroman the next day. 85 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 3: At Stroman's home, investigators found a semi automatic rifle, an 86 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 3: Uzi knockoff, a forty four magnum, and a forty five 87 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 3: cult that also found evidence that Stroman planted to attack 88 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 3: a mosque in a nearby suburb. Jury found Stroumman guilty 89 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 3: of capital murder in April fifth, two thousand and two, 90 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 3: and sends him to die by leafal injection. The story 91 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 3: then took an unexpected turn. During a two thousand and 92 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 3: nine pilgrimage to Mecca, Buyan said he realized that simply 93 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: forgiving his assailant would not be enough. He believed he 94 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 3: had a moral obligation to do all he could prevent 95 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 3: Strouman's death. Buyon filed a lawsuit attempting to halt Stroman's execution. 96 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 3: Despite of Buyon's best effort, the suit was rejected by 97 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 3: state and federal courts, and Stroman died by lethal injection 98 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 3: July twenty, twenty eleven. 99 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: Buyon's campaign of mercy, however, made a major impact on 100 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: capital punishment in the United States. He effectively shamed European 101 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: drug companies, debanning the use of the products used in 102 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 2: the lethal injection that killed Stroman. In turn, some states, 103 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: like Texas, decided to start buying lethal drugs illegally. In 104 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 2: this final episode on the history of the lethal injection 105 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 2: in the United States, Beyond will tell us about his 106 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: campaign against capital punishment and its impact. We'll also speak 107 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 2: to a priest, the Reverend Jeff Hood, who has accompanied, 108 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 2: by the time of this interview ten men to their executions. 109 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 2: He will also tell us why he has devoted himself 110 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 2: to showing love to people so despised, and also address 111 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 2: the future of the death penalty in the United States. 112 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 3: After being blows I did a hate crime race. Beyond 113 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 3: struggles through numerous traumas. He told us that after getting 114 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 3: shot at the convenience story where he worked, he ran 115 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 3: to a barbershop next door. There, he had the first 116 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 3: sight of his injuries, I. 117 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 5: Caught myself in the mirror and the image reflected back 118 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 5: was like something off of the horror movie. And on 119 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 5: my way to the hospital, I felt my eyes were closing. 120 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 5: I felt that my time was up. And you know, 121 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 5: while I was reciting from the Holy Koran and asking 122 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 5: God for mercy and forgiveness and giving me a second chance, 123 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 5: I also begged him to, you know, to send my life, 124 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 5: to give me a chance to live. And I promised 125 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 5: God that if you give me a chance to live, 126 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 5: I would help others. 127 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: In the emergency room, doctors put Beyond on life support 128 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: for time. His condition was touch and go. Beyond, a 129 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: young immigrant living on his salary as a convenience store clerk, 130 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 2: said that when he next opened his eyes and doctors 131 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: told him he had survived, he cried tears of joy. 132 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 5: So my eyes were full of tears, not from the pain, 133 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 5: but from the joy of still being alive, but then 134 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 5: joining the last long because the hospital where I was 135 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 5: taken was private and expensive, and I had no health 136 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 5: insurance at the time, so they discharged me with a 137 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 5: couple of hours and told me to arrange follow up 138 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 5: medical treatments On my own. So, you know, the first 139 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 5: part of my American nightmare was being shot in the 140 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 5: face after nine to eleven, and second part began when 141 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 5: I was kicked up from the hospital. So as a 142 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:39,479 Speaker 5: result of this shooting, I you know, underwent several eye surgeries. Unfortunately, 143 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 5: though I lost the mission in one eye, I still 144 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 5: carry more than three dozen shut palas on my face. 145 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 5: And my father suffered a stroke when he heard what 146 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 5: about what happened to me? But luckily he's a bde. 147 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 5: I lost my fiance but gained more than sixty dollars 148 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 5: in medical bills. 149 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 3: Strumman languished on Texas Death Row. Buyan began picking up 150 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 3: the pieces. 151 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 5: I moved on rebuilding my life. I worked in restaurant 152 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 5: and went back to school, and slowly I was, you know, 153 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 5: climbing the letter and getting better in my own you know, 154 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 5: life journey. And in two thousand and nine I went 155 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 5: the mact of a polgrimage a mother and it wasn't neca. 156 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 5: I deeply realized that though I forgave my attacker marks trument, 157 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 5: it was not an hour. I felt that, you know, 158 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 5: by executing Mark, we would simply lose a human life 159 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 5: with a dealing with the hood cause. I strongly believed 160 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 5: that if he was giving a chance, he might be 161 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 5: able to become a better human being. And I began 162 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 5: to see him as a human being like me, not 163 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 5: just simply a killer. I saw him as a victim too, 164 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 5: and I befelt for him. And I remember my promise 165 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 5: on my devdad that if I did a chance to live, 166 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 5: I would help others. And I felt that I needed 167 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 5: to start with him first to get my promies. So 168 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 5: I've returned from Mecca with a very changed heart. Look 169 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 5: at clarity and then you found purpose, and I launched 170 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 5: a campaign to try and save my attack that's wife 171 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 5: from Texas death. 172 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: We'll pick up the story of Beyon's campaign to spare 173 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,719 Speaker 2: Stroman's life and how his efforts changed the history of 174 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: the American death penalty after a word from our sponsors. 175 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 2: Doctor Rick Halprin began teaching human rights courses at Southern 176 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 2: Methodist University in Dallas in nineteen ninety, where he now 177 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 2: hads one of only nine human rights programs at the 178 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: universities in the country. He has also chaired Amnesty International's 179 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: Board of Directors three times, and since nineteen seventy two 180 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: has been an anti death penalty activist. Halprin became famous 181 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 2: on Texas death Row as a result of his efforts, 182 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: and after Stroman was informed of his July twentieth, twenty 183 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: eleven execution date, the condemned man wrote a letter to 184 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,719 Speaker 2: Halperin asking for help in making final arrangements, such as 185 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: locating an affordable undertaker. 186 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 3: By coincidence, shortly after Stroman reached out to Halperin, the 187 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 3: professor received a surprise visitor to his office. The stranger 188 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 3: was Stroman's victim, Race Bouyan. B Yan, who had recently 189 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 3: become an American cist, hoped Halperin could help him find 190 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 3: a creative and effective way to fulfill the promise he 191 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 3: had made to God when he thought he was dying. 192 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 3: He began his campaign to save Stroman's life. Bu Yan, Halpern, 193 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 3: and another human rights activist, Hatti Juwad, carried their efforts 194 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 3: from Dallas to the state capitol in Austin and as 195 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 3: far as the European Parliament. 196 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 2: A weak point in the American death penalty machinery was 197 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 2: its reliance on companies that provided the lethal injection chemicals. 198 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 2: In twenty eleven, Italy and anti death penalty Nation successfully 199 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 2: pressured the Illinois company Hospira to stop selling sodium theopental, 200 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: the muscle relaxant used in the three drug lethal injection 201 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: protocol used in Texas since the early nineteen eighties. That 202 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 2: same year, Reprieve, a British human rights nonprofit, arranged for 203 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: Beyond to travel to Europe to meet face to face 204 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 2: with executives at the corporate headquarters of the Danish pharmaceutical 205 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: company Lundbeck. Aware that the meeting would put them in 206 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 2: the international spotlight, Lundbeck three days prior, announced that they 207 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 2: would stop shipping the sedative nembitol, which was being used 208 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 2: as a substitute for sodium the appent hall to American 209 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: prison systems. Beyond described his conversation with the Lumbeck company 210 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 2: an interview with US the one. 211 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 5: Hour of great conversation. They agreed to write a letter 212 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 5: to the governor of Pixas asking him not to use 213 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 5: their product to kill human being. 214 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 3: The state of Texas, however, was unwilling to grant a 215 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 3: crime victim as fervent wish, even though Texas politicians repeatedly 216 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 3: claimed they execute murderers to bring the victims closure. Boullion 217 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 3: said he was denied this by the Texas Border Paroles 218 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: and Pardons and then Governor Rick Perry. 219 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 5: I reached out to the prison system and asking for 220 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 5: a mediation dialogue, but unfortunately, you know, that turned down 221 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 5: my request multiple times, and the reason they showed was 222 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 5: it would really victimise me. So basically a mediation dialogue, 223 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 5: I thought it would be helpful for me to find closure, 224 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 5: to find a lot of answers, but it was for them, 225 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 5: it would be, you know, a revictimization process for me. 226 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 5: So they they rejected my request to multiple crimes, and 227 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 5: it really made me sad that when they needed me 228 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 5: to testifying the court the conviction to get the death penalty. 229 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 5: I was a good victim, but then when I tried 230 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 5: to exercise my right as a victim to have a 231 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 5: mediation dialogue, I became that victim because I asked when 232 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 5: it right. 233 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 3: In his final hours, Strowman spoke directly to his surviving victim. 234 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 5: I had the opportunity to talk to him of the 235 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 5: phone before he was executed, and it was the day 236 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 5: of his execution where he put my name as one 237 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 5: of the people he would be able to talk. So 238 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 5: I was lucky enough to talk to him, and when 239 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 5: he came on the phone, I was about to, you know, 240 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 5: go to the court to give a last fight to, 241 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 5: you know, stead the execution. So I was thinking, what 242 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 5: would I say to a human being who is about 243 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 5: to be executed in a couple of hours. And I'm 244 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 5: going to, you know, go to a court to give 245 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 5: a you know, a last fight to to you know, 246 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 5: see if he could say them. So I was very 247 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 5: emotional when he on the phone. I told him that Mark, 248 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 5: you know for sure that I never hated you. I 249 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 5: forgave you and I'm doing my best to you know, 250 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 5: save your life, you know, through this court hearing. And 251 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 5: he said that rays I never expected that from you, 252 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 5: and I love you, brother, And that brought tears into 253 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 5: my eyes. That it is the same human being who 254 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 5: shocked me for no reasons other than having hated and violence. 255 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 5: These are and now ten years later he saw me, 256 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 5: he could see me as his brother, and he said 257 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 5: he loved me. Why he couldn't see me as his 258 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 5: brother ten years ago? And why could he say the 259 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 5: same thing ten years ago? So, you know, at least 260 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 5: it helped me to find closer a little bit. It 261 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 5: helped me to move forward. At least I had the 262 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 5: chance to talk to my attacker and and give you 263 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 5: a lot of hope that people can change. 264 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 2: The execution itself. However, left Beyond cold. 265 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 5: Well definitely this execution that was not of the victims, 266 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 5: because the victims and the victims' family members requested and 267 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 5: also fought for clemency. In a way, you went ahead 268 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 5: and requested the Governor of Texas, the Board of Burdens 269 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 5: and Earls that do not execute him in all names 270 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 5: in a show. 271 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 2: Marcie Mark Strowman died as scheduled on July twentieth, twenty eleven, 272 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 2: and though Beyond and Helprint failed to stop it, they 273 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 2: had helped start an international movement to thwart the ability 274 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 2: of states to carry out such lethal injections, as Professor 275 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: Colorine Elaine revealed in her book Secrets of the Killing State. 276 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 2: After Haspira stopped producing sodium viapental, the vacuum was filled 277 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: by a fly by night company called Dream Pharma. The 278 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: drug distributor quote turned out to be two desks at 279 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 2: a filing cabinet hidden in the back of a London 280 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: driving school. As Lane wrote, once this operation was exposed, 281 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: Great Britain banned sodium theopental sales to the United States. 282 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 3: By December twenty eleven, the entire European Union had titan 283 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 3: export controls on any chemicals that could potentially be used 284 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 3: in executions. The new expanded EU ban made life much 285 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 3: more difficult for would be executioners in the United States. 286 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 3: In twenty twelve, when the state of Missouri announced it 287 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 3: would use the drug pro poufal as an anesthetic in 288 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 3: its executions, the EU said it would cut off exports 289 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 3: of that drug, which is used for surgeries in the 290 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 3: United States about fifty million times a year. Combined, these 291 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 3: moves created a lethal injection drug shortage that changed how 292 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 3: executions took place. 293 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 2: In twenty twelve, Texas moved then to a single drug protocol, 294 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 2: using pennel barbitol alone rather than the old three drug 295 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 2: cocktail made out of thin air by Oklahoma corner Stephen 296 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 2: Coleman back in the nineteen seventies. Autopsies reveal that prisoners 297 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 2: executed with this single drug protocol die from pulmonary edema, 298 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 2: a condition in which the lungs fill with fluid. Medical 299 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 2: experts believe prisoners suffer intense chest pain as they suffocate, 300 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 2: even if they appear fully unconscious. Execution witnesses also say 301 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: they have seen prisoners eyes pop open, their eyes fill 302 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 2: with tears, have seen them pull against restraints, and have 303 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 2: heard them grown and class their jaws during such executions. 304 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 3: As the drugs needed to carry out lethal injections become 305 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 3: harder to find, states have to rely on shady tactics 306 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 3: so they can keep on killing. Officials have lied to 307 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 3: pharmaceutical companies that are buying drugs to provide medical care 308 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 3: for prisoners that they later use in the death chamber. 309 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 3: Death penalty. States have violated federal laws. They have illegally 310 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 3: swapped these drugs across state line, or they bought them 311 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 3: on the black market or to legally marginal so called 312 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 3: gray market, Professor Lane describes as shading lengths the state 313 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 3: of Ohio went to in order to buy these drugs. 314 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 6: The state took fifteen thousand dollars in cash in a suitcase. 315 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 6: I mean, you can't make this stuff up, you know, 316 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,440 Speaker 6: and chartered a private plane to fly over to Washington 317 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 6: where they did an under the table deal for drugs 318 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 6: with this little pharmacy. You know, you need a prescription 319 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 6: for these drugs, and so here's a pharmacy that, for 320 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 6: fifteen thousand dollars is willing to sell drugs under the 321 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 6: table and allegedly in a Walmart parking lot. 322 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: To cope with the shrinking supply, states have made illegal 323 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 2: purchases overseas. Like other states, Texas has tried to circumvent 324 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 2: tightening restrictions by purchasing death penalty supplies from loosely regulated 325 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 2: compounding pharmacies, and some of them have been here in 326 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 2: the States. In twenty eighteen, it was revealed that Texas 327 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 2: repeatedly bought drugs from the Green Park Compounding Pharmacy in Houston, 328 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 2: which is a company that had been fined forty eight 329 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 2: times by federal regulators for safety violations, including providing the 330 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 2: wrong medication to children who were subsequently hospitalized. The number 331 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 2: of agonizingly prolonged executions in Texas suggests that the drugs 332 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 2: the state buys are often out of date or impure. 333 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 3: Finding out where the leflow drugs are coming from is 334 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 3: becoming increasingly difficult. A number of states have passed laws 335 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 3: may it illegal to report on who carries out the execution, 336 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 3: what companies supply the drugs, or how these drugs were purchased. 337 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 3: In any case, the difficulty in getting execution drugs has 338 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 3: led to a decline the death penalty across the nation. 339 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 3: At the time of the landmark nineteen seventy two Firman 340 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 3: versus Georgia case that temporarily halted executions in the United States, 341 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 3: forty states had the death penalty. Currently only twenty seven 342 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 3: do In twenty twenty four, four states alone, Alabama, Missouri, Oklahoma, 343 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 3: and Texas carried out seventy six percent of the executions 344 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 3: that unfolded in the United States. Some of the remaining 345 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 3: states with the death penalty on the books have responded 346 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 3: to the shortage of lethal drugs by authorizing the use 347 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: of the firing squad and killing prisoners with nitrogen gas epoxia, 348 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 3: which suffocates them by forcing them to breathe pure nitrogen 349 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 3: after another outbreak. You'll hear from a priest who has 350 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 3: witnessed executions in ten different states, including death by nitrous epoxia, 351 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 3: and will end this three part series by discussing the 352 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 3: future of the death penalty. Born in the South Atlanta 353 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 3: neighborhood in Georgia, Jeff Hood grew up in a religiously 354 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 3: conservative home and was ordained as a Southern Baptist minister 355 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 3: when he is only twenty two. His worldview, however, was 356 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 3: shaken when he attended to his religious mentor, who was 357 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 3: dying of lung cancer. Before he passed away, the seventy 358 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 3: five year old confessed to Hood quote, I'm gay and 359 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 3: I've always been described this moment as earth shattering, and 360 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 3: his religious views transformed dramatically from what he later called 361 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 3: his backwards thinking. 362 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 2: When Hood moved to Dallas in the early twenty tens, 363 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 2: he became well known in his new home as he 364 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 2: fought to make local churches more inclusive of the LGBTQ 365 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 2: plus community, and he got arrested along with other clergy 366 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 2: outside of the White House in twenty fourteen when he 367 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 2: was protesting President Barack Obama's aggressive campaign to port migrants. 368 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 2: On July seventh and twenty sixteen, Hood led a Black 369 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 2: Lives Matter protest in downtown Dallas, during which a sniper 370 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 2: opened fire and targeted police officers. 371 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 3: Micah X Johnson and IRAQ war Veteran was enraged by 372 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: the police killings of Alton Stirling in Louisiana and Filando 373 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 3: Castile in Minnesota, so Johnson shot and killed five police officers, 374 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 3: the deadliest incident for law enforcement since September eleventh, two 375 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 3: thousand and one. Police killed Johnson that evening by detonating 376 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 3: a bomb carried by a robot to the shooter's hideout 377 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 3: in part garage, marking the first execution by robot in 378 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 3: American history. Reverend Hood was traumatized not only by the 379 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 3: sniper attack, but also when he got scapegoaded for the 380 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 3: deaths that day. Fox News hosts Megan Kelly put a 381 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 3: target on Hood's back in the aftermath of the sniper attack. 382 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,440 Speaker 7: Jeff Hood, he was one of the organizers of the march, 383 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 7: and quickly condemned the shootings. 384 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,919 Speaker 1: Today never and ah, while the dreams would we have 385 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: imagined that five police officers would be dead this morn. 386 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 7: But critics were quick to point out that we were 387 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 7: hearing a very different message from the Reverend just a 388 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 7: short time before the shots rang out last night. Here 389 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 7: are some of that. 390 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 5: But I'm a. 391 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 8: Channel an old Richard that I am out tremendously jel 392 00:23:49,840 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 8: am all right, and I'm gonna say, God, damn White America, 393 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 8: God damn America. White America, of the bodies a boot 394 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 8: and brown people people being flooded in our. 395 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 3: Free Hood agreed to be interviewed by Kelly, but the 396 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 3: minister soon realized that Fox viewers blamed him for the 397 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 3: officer's death and they threatened vengeance. 398 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: I mean after Youlaw the Seventh Man, there was talk 399 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 1: about threats. Didn't PD was having to take the kids 400 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: to school, and it was. 401 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 3: It was absolutely horrible witnessing people die that day, including 402 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 3: the sniper Johnson's impromptu execution via remote control robot, deep 403 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 3: in Hood's opposition to violence, including state killing. In twenty 404 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 3: twenty two, he is ordained again, this time as a priest, 405 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 3: and was called the Old Catholic Faith, which accepts many 406 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 3: of the doctrines and rights of the Roman Catholic Church 407 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 3: that rejects the doctor front of people infallibility and authority. 408 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 3: Hood began writing to those on death row and then 409 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 3: talking and praying with them in person. In twenty twenty two, 410 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 3: the United States Supreme Court ruled in the Ramirez versus 411 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 3: Collier case that condemned prisoners have the right to die 412 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 3: in the company of a spiritual advisor. Hood became a 413 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 3: companion to the condemned in their last minutes. 414 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: I began to have people reaching out during that time, 415 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: you know, and asking me if I would accompany them 416 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: to the death chamber. And you know, it's one thing 417 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: to be willing to have relationships with people who are executed. 418 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: It's a whole nother thing to be asked to participate 419 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: in the process. And so since then, I've witnessed or 420 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: been in the chamber with ten different guys. So from 421 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: January of twenty twenty three to now, I've watched ten 422 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: different men executed by the state. 423 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 2: But attended his first execution in the state of Oklahoma, 424 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 2: put Scott Eisenberg to death on January twelfth, twenty twenty three. 425 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 2: Twenty years earlier, Eisenberg murdered an elderly couple, including a 426 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 2: man he bludgeoned to death. 427 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: My first execution was Scott Eisenberg in Oklahoma, and he 428 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: Scott had a number of things going on, but. 429 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 5: We were very close. 430 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: He had a lot of anger issues and I think 431 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: difficulty controlling his temper and whatnot, and you know, so 432 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,239 Speaker 1: the reality was I was very frightened before I went 433 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: in because I thought Scott was just going to go ballistic, 434 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: and you know, to be in that room with someone 435 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: that goes ballistic, I mean, it's it's already traumatic enough. 436 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure you can imagine without you know, something like that. 437 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: But then again, you couldn't. You can't blame them for 438 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: wanting to, you know, push back and for their lives 439 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: and whatnot. I found myself shaking, just you know, my 440 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 1: hands and my legs. This terror, I mean, just utterly terrified. 441 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: And then they opened the door and I was led 442 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: in and I saw Scott. And it's incredibly strange to 443 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: see someone hooked up to machines that look like they're 444 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: there to support life, and yet you know that they're 445 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: there to take his life. And so I wasn't able. 446 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I knew that there was a window on 447 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: one side. I wasn't able to see through that window 448 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: because there was a curtain down. And I began to 449 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: pray with Scott. Scott had asked me to read a 450 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: number of scriptures and I did, and I dropped my 451 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 1: Bible at one point because I'm shaking so bad. I 452 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: was having trouble holding it. You know, he notices that 453 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: I'm shaking, he notices that I'm upset, and he looks 454 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: at me and tells me everything's gonna be okay. And 455 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm thinking to myself, no, it's not, like, no, it 456 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: is not. And I'm thinking, you know, you're gonna die 457 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,239 Speaker 1: and and I'm gonna be scarred for life. Everything is 458 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: not going to be okay. And I went to the 459 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: scripture in John chapter eight where Jesus encounters the adulterous woman, 460 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: and there's that famous line, famous verse, you who are 461 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: without sin cast the first stone, and I read that 462 00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: in the chamber, and one of the lighter moments when 463 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: we were in there was when I read that you 464 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: who are without sending cassa the first tone. I remember 465 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: Scott looking up and pointing at the executioners and saying, 466 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, he's talking to y'all, like this is about y'all. 467 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,959 Speaker 2: Pud said that any sense that death by lethal injection 468 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 2: is nonviolent is an illusion. 469 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: In every lethal injection, I have immediately heard snoring and 470 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: what sounds not like you know, snoring from you know 471 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: that one would have when they sleep or whatever, but 472 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: more of a gurgling kind of a snoring, and you 473 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: know it's the body responds in a very panicked fashion. 474 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: And so It's almost like it's like drowning someone who's 475 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: completely paralyzed. And I think that that's I think that's 476 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: what it's been like every time. I think that there 477 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: is a level of suffering that is that is hidden. 478 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: There's a reason that, again that it's made to look 479 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: like a medical procedure, because it does look like a 480 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: medical procedure. I think it is a cont. 481 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 3: Hood found the lethal injections traumatizing, but that did not 482 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 3: prepare for him for what he witnessed when Alabama began 483 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 3: executing prisoners through nitrous hypoxia. 484 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: I can tell you that as horrible as a lethal 485 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: injection is, and yes, it is a con job, I 486 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: can tell you that I what I saw during that 487 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: nitrogen execution is indescribable. I can tell you that I 488 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: think I would rather be burned to death than be 489 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: executed by nitrogen. 490 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 5: I mean it is that bad. 491 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 3: Wod attended the hypoxia suffocation of Kenneth Smith, a contract killer, 492 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 3: on January twenty fifth, twenty twenty four, the first such 493 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 3: execution in American history. Smith had been sent to death 494 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 3: thirty six years earlier. That's at the horror for him began. 495 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 3: We stepped into the death chamber and saw Smith outfitted 496 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 3: with a large mass that would deliver the poison gas. 497 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 3: Attending this execution actually put Hood's life in jeopardy. 498 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 5: I can describe it for y'all's listeners. 499 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: But the mask which I'm holding right here a replica, 500 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: is basically something that is gasnetting in the back and 501 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: has silicone straps. It's put over the back of someone's 502 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: head and it is strapped as tight as possible to try. 503 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 5: To keep it on. 504 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: And it looks like a firefighter's mask with sort of 505 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: a plexiglass plate on the front. And then there's a 506 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: hose that's going from the firefighter's mask with the plexis 507 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:53,959 Speaker 1: plate to the nitrogen and so what is happening is 508 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: they try to pump as much nitrogen as possible through 509 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: through this line. The problem is is that these masks 510 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: don't completely hold the form. I guess it's the best 511 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: way of saying it in that it's. 512 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 5: Difficult for you to get an air tight seal. 513 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: So the more oxygen that gets in here, the more 514 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: it's displacing nitrogen. And so the more oxygen that's in here, 515 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: and obviously there's going to be oxygen too, there's gonna 516 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: be oxygen in the mass before the thing even starts. 517 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: Is going to create more suffering. It's going to create 518 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: a longer process. 519 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: Knew that he would be in a chamber in which 520 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 2: poison gas would be released, and he felt obligated to 521 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,959 Speaker 2: tell his children in advance that he could be harmed. 522 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 2: They were terrified, of course, but he felt an obligation 523 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 2: to provide smith company and compassion as well. Again, we 524 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 2: remind listeners that what they are about to hear might 525 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: be upsetting. 526 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: So by the time we get to the point where 527 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: they turn the nitrogen on, all the witnesses, everybody in 528 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: the room is like going Nobody knows what's about to 529 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: happen because it's never been tried before. And so they 530 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:13,400 Speaker 1: turn it on and Kenny immediately begins to heave back 531 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: and forth and back and forth, over and over. And 532 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: every time he heaves forward, the back of the mask 533 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: was strapped to the gurney, so every time he heaves forward, 534 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: his face is hitting the front of that mask over 535 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: and over and over and over, and so it's like 536 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: watching someone get like hit their face against the playglass window, 537 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: and it's like his nose and his face is flattening 538 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: every time he does it. And he begins to shake 539 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: back and forth and back and forth, heaving up and down. 540 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: I see spit and saliva and snot, and you know, 541 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: eyewater and all sorts of fluid is coming out of 542 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: his face. And that fluid begins to build up on 543 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: the front of the mask, and it begins to drizzle 544 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: like a waterfall. 545 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 3: Smith's convulse was so much for his prison officials worried 546 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 3: his mask might come off, interrupting the execution and possibly 547 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 3: killing Hood and maybe others in attendance. A window separated 548 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 3: Hood from other witnesses in the violence of Smith's death 549 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 3: caused a commotion. 550 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: The windows are like super thick. I shouldn't have been 551 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: able to hear anything, but I could hear somebody behind 552 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,240 Speaker 1: me screaming stop stop stop stop, please stop stop stop. 553 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: And it was It was an absolute nightmare. And Kenny 554 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: did not die for at least twenty two minutes, and 555 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: it's very possible that he didn't die for a longer 556 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: period of time. But the state of Alabama declares they say, oh, 557 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,879 Speaker 1: you know, he's not breathing, he's dead. Then they'd push 558 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: everybody out of the room and then they bring the 559 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 1: doctor in after everybody's led to declare him dead. 560 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 2: But admits that some of the men he's counseled are 561 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 2: capable of unspeakable evil even after years on death row, 562 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 2: but he still recalls each death he's witnessed with pain. 563 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: I feel morally compromised, horrified, but I feel cold or 564 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 1: pushed to keep going because I think that the more 565 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: traumatic thing would be to leave these guys alone. Now, 566 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 1: in terms of actually seeing it, I think that it's 567 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:39,359 Speaker 1: these images don't leave you. There's nightmares. I always say 568 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: that these guys haunt me. They come night after night. 569 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:45,919 Speaker 1: You know, I'll see them at the end of my bed. 570 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, just yeah. So, so trauma is 571 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 1: something I've come to know very well. 572 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 3: In twenty nineteen, the United States Supreme Court ruled the 573 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 3: prisoners do not have a right to a painless death 574 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 3: when a green lighted the execution of Russell Buckloo, who 575 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 3: had blood filled tumors and his head, neck and mouth 576 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 3: that could have broken up and as he was put 577 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,279 Speaker 3: to death. The highest court seems to have rendered the 578 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 3: Eighth Amendments ban on cruel and unusual punishment moved. 579 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 2: Meanwhile, in recent years, It has not only been states 580 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 2: that have enforced the death penalty. Between nineteen sixty and 581 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, the federal government carried out only three executions, 582 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 2: but in twenty twenty to early twenty twenty one, during 583 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 2: the last six months of Donald Trump's first term as president, 584 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 2: the federal government executed thirteen men and women. These included 585 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,320 Speaker 2: Brandon Bernard, who committed a double murder when he was 586 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 2: only eighteen, and another Lisa Montgomery, whose psychologists believed was 587 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 2: severely mentally ill and detached from reality at the time 588 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 2: that she murdered a pregnant woman and cut the baby 589 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 2: from her victim's body in order to raise the child 590 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 2: as her own. 591 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 3: Joe Biden, on the other hand, at the end of 592 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 3: his presidential term, sought to prevent a similar execution spree. 593 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 3: Forty people are on death row, and he commuted the 594 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 3: sons of thirty seven of them. The remaining three were Zokharzarnev, 595 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 3: the twenty thirteen Boston Marathon bomber, Dylan Rufe, who massacred 596 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 3: nine members of the Mother Emmanuel Ame Church in Charleston, 597 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,240 Speaker 3: South Carolina twenty fifteen, and Robert Bowers, who killed eleven 598 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,760 Speaker 3: at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh. Back in power, however, 599 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 3: Trump is vowed to make the death penalty great again. 600 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 9: Anybody murders something in the capitol, capital punishment, capital capital punishment. 601 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 9: If somebody kills somebody in the capitol Washington, DC, We're 602 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 9: going to be seeking the death penalty. And that's a 603 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 9: very strong preventative. 604 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 2: Trump's immediate plans aside, the future of the death penalty 605 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 2: in the long term is not so certain. According to 606 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 2: a twenty twenty four Gallop opinion poll, support for the 607 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,359 Speaker 2: death penalty has sunk to its lowest level in half 608 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 2: a century. Only fifty three percent of Americans favor capital punishment, 609 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 2: but that number skews heavily towards older Americans. More than 610 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,720 Speaker 2: half of Americans between the ages of eighteen and forty 611 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 2: three oppose the death penalty, and almost sixty percent of 612 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,720 Speaker 2: the so called gen z those born between nineteen ninety 613 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 2: seven and twenty twelve are firmly against the death penalty. 614 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 2: While Professor Karna Lane believes that even record low support 615 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 2: for the death penalty is exaggerated and that support for 616 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 2: capital punishment drops even further when other options are provided 617 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 2: to voters. 618 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,479 Speaker 6: You know, the President issued this executive order, a day 619 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:41,680 Speaker 6: one executive order. 620 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 10: Let's go for the death penalty anytime we can. Let's 621 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 10: execute everybody. And one of the things to realize is 622 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 10: that the death penalty is dying in this country for 623 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 10: reasons that an executive order cannot fix. People have less 624 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 10: confident and the death penalty. They don't trust the death penalty, 625 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 10: nor should they. Two hundred people have been exonerated from. 626 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 3: Death row, and race Bouillon agrees. 627 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 5: The decline in executions in the United States reflects a 628 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:21,399 Speaker 5: broad US shift in how society views death penalty. I mean, 629 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 5: more states are repealing it, juries are imposing it less often, 630 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 5: and the public support while student bting has steadily decreased, 631 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 5: especially as concerns about wrongful convictions in the racial bias 632 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 5: and the high costs of capital punishment came to light. 633 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 3: At the beginning of the nineteenth century, hangings were public, 634 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 3: but they so often went awry and produced such grizly 635 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 3: seen states smood as executions inside prison yards, and some 636 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 3: more humane alternative that new method, the allow electric chair, 637 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 3: proved horrifying as well and was deemed unsuitable for general audiences. 638 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 3: The Supreme Court imposed a four year pause in the 639 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 3: death penalty beginning in nineteen seventy two because of its 640 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 3: random application. In nineteen seventy six, the High Court reauthorized 641 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 3: capital punishment. A crisis ensued when a Texas TV reporters 642 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 3: sued for the right to televise executions. Horrified at the 643 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,359 Speaker 3: prospectively condemned essentially being burned alive in the electric chair 644 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 3: in front of a primetime audience, States approved the latest 645 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 3: innovation stake killing death by lethal injection. 646 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 2: But throughout this history of execution, insurmountable flaws have remained consistent. 647 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 2: The quest for a human way to kill people on 648 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 2: an announced schedule has been futile. Each form of the 649 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 2: death penalty has been proven to be violent and cost 650 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 2: suffering at great expenditure of public money, and plausibly innocent 651 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,400 Speaker 2: people have been put to death as the people in 652 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 2: charge of punishment have changed execution methods over the years, 653 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 2: also tried to prevent public backclash to revolting scenes of suffering, 654 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,320 Speaker 2: which could create the opposition to capital punishment that they fear. 655 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 2: Politicians eager to prove they are tough on crime, have 656 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,359 Speaker 2: also fought to hide these gruesome spectacles from public view. Nevertheless, 657 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 2: Race Bouyon is optimistic that this grim aspect of life 658 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 2: in the United States might soon come to an end. 659 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 5: More than two thirds of you know countries have about 660 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 5: his death penalty in law or practice, with only a 661 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 5: few countries carrying out the vast majority of executions. And 662 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 5: I think the future is one where the death penalty 663 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 5: continues to strain one life as values of human rights, dignity, 664 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 5: and justice without irreversible punishment. Again ground. 665 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 3: Until next time, I'm Michael Phillips. 666 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 2: And I'm Stephen Montchelli. 667 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:55,320 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening. 668 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 10: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 669 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 7: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 670 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 7: Coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 671 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 7: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 672 00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 7: now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly 673 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:14,759 Speaker 7: in episode descriptions. 674 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening.