WEBVTT - S2:Ep 6 - A Golden Year 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:05.840 Okay, Erica, you gotta get ready. This is too good. 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:09.840 What are we watching? So we're in my basement and 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:14.440 I'm going to force you to watch The Nutcracker, and 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:19.079 not just any Nutcracker. You're Nutcracker when you were Marie 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:27.040 aka Clara and other versions, but the main character that 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:37.400 was a Golden Year? A Golden Year? How did you 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:41.680 get these on your computer? Because weren't they vhs? Yeah? 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:44.879 How did you get these? Mom? And Dad? Can we 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.720 get to watch it? Because I'm dying to watch? All right? 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:49.320 I think this is going to be fun. I know 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.120 you're probably a little bit anxious. Oh my gosh, just 0:00:52.159 --> 0:01:00.040 seeing the still of the costumes. So I guess I 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:03.160 should tell you. My name is Alan, I'm Erica's sister. 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.399 I also produced this show. I know it might feel 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.399 abrupt to suddenly hear from me, but there's something about 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.119 Erica that she's extremely reluctant to talk about that I 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:18.600 think you should know. Okay, I'm going to click on it. 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:29.000 We're going to full screen it. You're ready. The Youth 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:36.880 Ballet Company presents two thousand and one The Nutcracker December fourteenth, fifteenth, 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:41.280 and sixteenth. WHOA, this is epic they have, like the 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:44.680 roles they have, the whole cast, little List, Mouse Cook, 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.720 Missus Stallbam, doctor Stalbam. I didn't know he's a doctor. 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.240 Erica devoted her life to ballet for more than ten years. 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.040 She thought about trying to go all the way to 0:01:54.200 --> 0:02:01.480 join a company and become a professional dancer. I can 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:03.960 picture all of these dancers and like how they danced. 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.920 I remember what their feet looked like, what looked like 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:17.880 definitely Marie so Bam, Erica Lance. Clearly, I'm enthusiastic. I'm 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.560 trying to pump Erica up and get her more excited, 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.160 but she's visibly uncomfortable. As the music plays and the 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:28.639 opening credits role, She's shifting in her seat. She's good 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:30.919 at masking how she feels, but I can tell it's 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:34.520 sparking a memory. I'm asking Erica to go back to 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:39.400 a time that honestly feels like another life, a time 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.840 when ballet defined her, a time when her ambition to 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.880 perform well and maybe to go pro consumed our family. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.320 We haven't talked much about it for probably fifteen years, 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.919 and I think there's a reason for that, because when 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:58.560 Erica left, she closed that door and never opened it again. 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:01.840 As much as she loved it, she suffered in it. 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.080 At least that's what I think I saw. I was 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:09.200 so young that it feels like this hazy, distant silhouette 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.880 of a thing that doesn't feel real, like a wild 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:18.680 dream that I can't fully recall. Curtains opening, Where would 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:20.959 you have been in the wings? In the wings? Yep, 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.200 getting ready for my first entrance. I love that you 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:31.080 remember your first entrance. Of course, there you are. Oh, 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.760 are yours out here? I'm sneaking out trying to see 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:42.160 the presence. We'll look at those pointed feed Wow. I 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:47.160 look better than I expected somehow. Yeah, you look amazing. 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:54.960 You're acting with your whole body and moving very gracefully. Wow. 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:58.000 I'm actually really proud of my dancing in this. I 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:02.120 think I forgot how good I was at this point. 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.760 Does it bring you back, like, how did it feel 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:10.920 to be performing the lead role in the Nutcracker? It's 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.760 just so fun. I loved all of those rehearsals, and 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.880 I was always there for a very long time because 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.159 I was the main character, and I did not mind 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:25.880 at all. It's just pure fun, pure fun, totally worth 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.680 any pain, all right. Being tired or something totally worth it. 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:39.480 I absolutely loved it. Working on this series has been 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.720 hard on Erica. She's often had a quick aside like 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:44.960 why am I doing this? Or I don't know why 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:49.200 I signed up for this. It also brings up a 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:53.679 lot of what ifs and regrets. Interviewing people and writing 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.840 about ballet every day has made us both realize how 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:58.719 much her time in ballet is a part of who 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:03.200 she is. It led to a conversation that honestly, we 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:20.800 needed to have as sisters from Rococo Punch and iHeart Podcasts. 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:25.159 This is the turning Room of mirrors. I'm Alan Lance Lesser, 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:38.080 Part six a golden year, So thanks Erica for finally 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.359 doing this. I feel like it's been pulling teeth to 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.599 get you to sit down and talk about some of 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.120 the stuff. And I'm not sure quite why, but I 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:48.599 feel like part of it is that you don't like 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.520 to talk about yourself too much. Yeah, I do feel 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:57.120 self conscious. You feel self conscious? How so? Yeah? I 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:02.680 mean not maybe not self conscious, but I mean honestly, like, yes, 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.360 I studied ballet when I was a kid, but I 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:10.320 didn't become a professional dancer. I didn't actually like fully 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.800 commit and go all the way, and so I just 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:18.839 feel like a fraud. I'm not the person who has 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:21.279 the most insight into this by like any stretch of 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:25.839 the imagination, So why would I be talking about my 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.919 own story or my own experience, Like there are so 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:33.200 many other people who are more important. So you basically 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:37.600 are experiencing imposter syndrome. I bet Also, if you had 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.720 become a professional, you still would be like, well, I 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.720 wasn't a principal, so my story doesn't matter, like you 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:49.880 would find any reason to not count your story as worthwhile. 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:53.800 And the fact is, like you devoted your life totally 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.800 to ballet for years. I know again I can just 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:04.760 feel you being uncomfortable talking about this. But anyway, do 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:08.840 you remember what was your favorite performance that you did? 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.400 I don't know, but definitely one of the most meaningful 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.240 to me was the year I was Marie and the 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:20.920 Nutcracker or Clara. That was obviously a huge deal. It 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.720 was really special because I had looked up to these 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.760 dancers for years who played Murrie. So getting cast as Marie, 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.040 I mean, it's like a dream come true. At age twelve, 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:39.720 you were twelve. Looking back, it's like twelve sounds so young. Yeah. Wow. 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:41.880 But by the time I was twelve, I was dancing 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:45.080 every day, and I was at a school that also 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:50.160 had this like youth ballet company essentially, and so we 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:54.440 were performing constantly. WHOA, what's weird is I almost feel 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:59.360 like I've blocked out some of these memories about how 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:03.720 much it was that was every day. Jeez. I mean, 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:08.800 it is true when you're dancing that seriously, you really 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:10.840 do feel like you have to dance every day to 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.560 keep up what you're doing and to be improving every day. 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.920 At that point, you're so in tune with your body that, yeah, 0:08:16.960 --> 0:08:19.480 when you take a day off, you feel it. And 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.200 I remember one time I took like three days or 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.720 something off and I can't remember if I was sick 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:26.680 or if our family went out of town for a 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.800 few days, but I came back to class and I 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.240 actually thought I was having an okay class. I don't 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.600 think I felt like I was doing particularly badly. And 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.640 I was standing at the bar in the studio and 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:43.640 my teacher, who is this Russian teacher who I absolutely adored. 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:47.800 She had really high standards, which I loved, but at 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:49.920 one point and she like stopped and I could tell 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.079 she was upset, and she looked at me and she said, Erica, 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.040 Edica like she said it in her Russian accent, like 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.800 you miss one day, you notice the difference you missed 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.959 two two days. I noticed the difference you missed three days. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:08.240 Everybody notices the difference. WHOA that makes her sound mean. 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.280 I actually adored her as a teacher, but that really 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.760 stuck with me, and it definitely made me feel like 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:24.120 it's just not worth it to take days off. How 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:29.559 did you feel in that moment? Probably embarrassed, but it 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:33.800 wasn't like a big out of the normal thing, like 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:35.720 you're used to being called out in class, You're used 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.800 to being corrected in front of everyone. But it was 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.240 more just this very memorable phrase that was a good 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:49.040 reminder of the importance of staying in class at home. 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.840 The dynamics of Erica's ballet, classroom casting, and technique, it 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:56.680 all became our form of childhood gossip. I loved being 0:09:56.720 --> 0:10:00.559 in on it. I watched Erica constantly improved and grow 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:07.199 into this polished dancer, but she'd also come home every 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:10.960 night in physical pain. I can remember the constant bags 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:16.000 of frozen peas or footpaths or full salt baths. Sometimes 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.439 Erica would sit in the middle of our living room floor, 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.480 slowly stretching her aching muscles and tending to her wounds, 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.280 and sometimes she just collapse onto this big green recliner 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.400 and just lie there for hours. She always seemed to 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:39.840 be on the mend. When did you first start having injuries? 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:44.720 I think the first time I sprained my ankle, I 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:49.200 was five, And after that first sprain, I was always 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.520 aware of my ankle. I always had ankle problems. And 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.440 the thing is, when you injure your ankle, after it heals, 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:00.400 it is a little more susceptible to injury. And so 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.480 it just felt like a constant battle with my ankle. 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:08.040 And eventually it went from like having mild sprains from 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.720 time to time too. I did develop chronic tendonitis in 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.240 my achilles tendons, which I think is like super common, 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.719 but it was really painful and I was experiencing it 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.000 I think at a level that it wasn't like normal, 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.480 and that's what I started seeing a bunch of physical 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:31.440 therapists for for years. It was such a constant I mean, 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.319 you're always dancing through pain, but you kind of get 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:38.680 used to it. Always. Yeah, I mean to some extent. 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.040 I do remember one day in particular, it was like 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.080 a Saturday day of rehearsals. I can picture the point 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:47.640 whose I was wearing. It was a pair of grish goes. 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.000 They might have been like slightly too broken in at 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:57.000 that point, but we were preparing for multiple performances coming up. 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.679 I just remember that I was cast in a lot 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:03.920 of things. It was a really exciting set of castings 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.120 because I was kind of cast above my level. But 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.600 the result is that I like didn't get any time off. 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.160 Like I was just constantly rehearsing one after the next, 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.880 and my friends were getting little breaks and I just 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:20.200 like wasn't getting a break. And there was this one 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.840 piece where we're basically on point the whole time, Like 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.400 the whole thing is that we're burying across the floor 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:30.040 like the entire dance, so you're like literally never not 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:34.840 on point. And I had like so many blisters that day, 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.880 and I just was like, oh my god, I cannot 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:39.800 run this piece one more time, and that you'd be like, 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.080 let's run it again, and I'd just be like please. Now. 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.479 I just remember thinking to myself, my god, this is insane, 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.800 But Also it was like so exhilarating because I felt 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.600 like such a professional because I just like was dancing 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:59.160 all day and you know, you feel important if you 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.920 like don't have time for breaks, and you do feel 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:03.840 like an adult. I mean, when you're making those types 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.360 of sacrifices where you're not hanging up with friends, you're 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.680 in the studio and you're dancing through pain, you feel 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:22.880 like a grown up. And it's partly because the instructor 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:24.760 to some extent, treats you like a grown up, Like 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.600 the expectations are so high you need to like put 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.040 on your adult behavior. Kind of that's what kids want. 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:36.480 They want to probably to a certain extent, they want, 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.320 like teachers to have high standards and high expectations or 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.000 to challenge them. Like I do think that that's so 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.319 empowering to not be seen as just like a kid 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.960 who's doing this for fun. It's like, no, take me seriously, 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.560 Like I wouldn't want any less. I would want to 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.439 be treated that way because I took it so seriously. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.920 And also I don't want my fellow dancers slacking off either, 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:57.439 because we all want it to be the best it 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:28.160 can be. Erica really wanted to be the best she 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:31.840 could in every way, and I remember noticing that desire 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:39.440 shift to how she felt about her appearance. I want 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.120 to pause here because we're about to talk about topics 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.240 that could be really triggering and even unhealthy to listen to. 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.400 They have to do with body image and include some 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:52.320 really skewed and unhealthy thinking. And if you feel you 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.400 might be triggered by explicit discussions of body image or 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:59.640 eating disorders, you might want to stop listening here. There's 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.680 a reason search to suggest that hearing specifics about eating 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:08.760 disorders could contribute to actual symptoms. I loved so much 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.000 of my body when I was dancing, like I liked 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:16.120 my feet, I liked my legs. I liked the level 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:17.960 of hyper extension. I felt like it was a little 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.280 but not too much. I liked a lot of my shapes. 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.920 I loved how I looked in a lot of ways, 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.480 and I was looking at myself all the time. I 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:33.000 was proud of my body, except for the I wanted 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:37.640 to be thinner. I just I really wanted bones jutting out. 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.400 But like, where do you think that came from? Because 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:47.080 I don't feel like it came from you. I thought 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:54.800 I was too fat starting from age four. Geez, can 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.080 you tell me your first like, why do you say 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:59.880 age four? What's your first memory of that? I think 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.680 it was four. It could be that I'm not don't 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.200 have the age right. My first memory of feeling that 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.800 I was too fat was not in ballet class, but 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.600 I think it was influenced by dance. There was like 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.800 a stage where we would do cabarets in the summer 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:18.320 and things. I was on stage and I had I 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.200 was like kind of standing with a sway back. I 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:22.400 had more of a sway back because like a toddler, 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.000 and I was aware suddenly that my like that made 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:31.520 my stomach stick out. And that's my first, like very 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:41.320 concrete memory of wishing that my stomach were smaller, and 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:47.160 that never went away. I started dance classes when I 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.800 was three, and I mean, I think it's it's hard 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:56.520 to just stand in a leotard in front of a 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:01.720 mirror every day as a kid. Do you remember any 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:06.800 times when a teacher like specifically told you to lose 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:12.120 weight or implied it in some way. No, that's the thing. 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.120 I don't think I ever had a teacher say, Erica, 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.960 you need to lose weight. No, I think it's like 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:22.040 very clear that you want to be thin, Like no 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.600 one needs to say that explicitly in class. There was 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.119 just such an awareness that thinness was clearly important. And 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.200 I think sometimes teachers would tell stories about their own 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.560 training that were kind of intended to point out how 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:41.760 messed up something was, but also inevitably then communicated maybe 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:48.119 the messed up message to us unintentionally. So like I 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:53.399 remember one of my teachers who was from Ukraine and 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:57.520 she'd been trained in Russian schools. She would tell stories 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:01.840 that a teacher would go and pinch your back, and 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:04.160 if they could pinch your back and get any kind 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:08.240 of like fat in the pinch, the teacher would say, oh, 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.240 I see, even having a little too much milk in 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:13.960 other words, like drinking milk was making them fat. But 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.240 I was like, oh, I guess I don't want any 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.479 pinchable fat in my back. She also would tell us 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.159 stories about how Russian schools worked at the time. You know, 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:26.480 you're a little girl between age six and ten. I 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:28.920 don't know the exact age, but if you want to 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.200 get into a Russian school, you go in. You're auditioning. 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.560 At one point, you take off your clothes you're naked, 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:41.280 I think for the audition often your topless as a 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.800 little girl. And then you also have like a medical 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.720 examination where they measure your body. They might even like 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.879 look at your parents to see how you're likely to 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:55.040 develop physically, basically saying we only want to admit people 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:59.159 into our school who have the exact proportions and ballet 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:03.719 body that we're looking for. Yeah, you're also thinking, you 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.680 know what I cut it in Russia. I don't know. 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.040 I think I remember the teacher that you're talking about, 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.080 and she was I think, amazing in a lot of ways. 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:16.159 But like also, I feel like to a certain degree, 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.919 there's an element of psychological breeding with that by just 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:24.280 saying like, oh, listen to how bad I had it, 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:30.040 or the types of disparaging comments I received. These other 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.480 comments I'm making are nothing compared to that. Yeah, the 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.520 messaging is, oh wow, look how intense that is over 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:41.080 in Russia, wasn't it? Nicely? Don't do that here? But 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.439 now I have these ideas that I'm supposed to have 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:46.600 certain measurements in order to be the best ballerina. Now 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.440 I'm aware of that, even if that wasn't the intention. 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:57.399 I do remember one time you walked in because you 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.560 were always there because you're always having to like with 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:02.679 mom as she's like driving me to class and stuff. 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.800 But you walked in, and I think she was like, oh, 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:09.280 you you would be accepted. You ailin? Yeah, you know. 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:13.320 I even remember she had me do first position and 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:17.120 she like, I'm not even her student, and she took 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.120 her hands and put them on my ankles and crept 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:22.119 her hands all the way up to my up my 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:27.360 legs to my hips, feeling my turnout wow, and literally 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.040 put her hands all over my legs up to like 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:33.479 my butt, and then was like, yes, you would be 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:37.080 accepted or something. And I felt so good at the 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:41.840 time because I mean like I was even totally drenched 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.800 in ballet culture at this point, because I was, you know, 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:49.000 just watching you all the time. Yeah, And then I 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.280 feel like you were like, oh, what the heck, why 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:59.840 didn't she say that about me? Yeah? Definitely, every day 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:03.919 I saw Erica striving for some image of perfection. I 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.360 remember when she got obsessed with the idea that her 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:10.760 ponytail should be smooth with no bumps. She'd spend what 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:14.280 felt like forever stuck in a loop slicking her hair back. 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.040 Then checking it for bombs, taking it out, and starting 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:21.000 all over again. I'd watch her perform these rituals in 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.320 the mirror, the mirrors at home and in the ballet 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:29.280 studio became a decider of Erica's self worth. There are 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:31.840 a lot of like body markers, body checking, like just 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:37.280 things that I think are probably potentially super triggering for people. 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:43.280 But yeah, I remember, like we shared a bathroom and 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:47.320 you just had certain rituals of checking yourself in the 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.280 mirror in certain ways that you would do almost like 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:54.760 repetitively padding certain parts of your body. I would like 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:58.160 turn and profile to the mirror. I'd like go one 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.399 way and then the other, and I would look at 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.360 my profile, see how then I was. I'd put one 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:04.879 hand in front of my stomach and one hand on 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:08.520 my back and go tap tap the other side, tap tap, 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:13.800 like how then are we today? Yeah? And then you would, 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:19.800 you know, do that regularly throughout the week, throughout the day. 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.320 I have a memory or two of you actually like 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:35.639 teaching me the body checking. Not oh God, no, that 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:39.440 sounds bad, not in like a judgmental god or no. 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:43.360 I was more like curious, like I would ask you explicitly, 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:46.280 like what are you doing or like what is that 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.320 supposed to do? What you're doing right there, that specific thing, 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:50.800 and then you'd be like, oh, well, I just go 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:53.679 like this and like that to check this, and I 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:56.720 think it helps with this. And like being a younger sister, 0:22:56.840 --> 0:22:58.280 you know, I kind of looked up to you and 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:05.280 would almost like you know, be like oh wow. And 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:08.080 then you had lots of rules about when you could eat. 0:23:09.080 --> 0:23:11.919 And again these were like also explicit things that we 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:15.240 talked about and that you'd be like, I've heard that 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:18.200 if you don't eat after X time, it like really 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:23.840 helps for this for that reason, which I mean didn't 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:28.200 even really make sense. But my point is ballet had 0:23:28.400 --> 0:23:35.000 permeated our family culture or our family Yeah, and so 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:39.520 talking about that stuff, even explicitly, it was just like 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:48.800 oh interesting, got to try that accepted. Yeah. I also 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:54.640 think there was a lot less awareness of eating disorders 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:58.120 and what that meant at the time. Yeah, I mean 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:00.480 we had heard of eating disorders before, but we thought 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:05.440 like the more extreme versions when someone's being hospitalized for 0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:09.040 an eating disorder. Yeah, at the time, we thought it 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:15.520 was anorexia or bolimia. And because Alan, you, like you 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:17.919 were home from summer break or something. In college, you 0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:23.480 were researching eating disorders and you were like, oh, yeah, Erica, 0:24:23.560 --> 0:24:25.880 you had an eating disorder or you had a disordered 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:29.240 eating of some kind. I was like what, and you 0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:31.800 listed a bunch of things, and I remember you explaining 0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:35.879 what body checking was. And I actively did not want 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:39.800 an eating disorder, and I knew how dangerous they could be, 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:43.040 and I was very aware of the dangers of it, 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:47.800 but I definitely didn't restrict food as much as I 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:50.480 wanted to be able to restrict food. And then I 0:24:50.520 --> 0:24:53.400 remember with bolimia, like also I did not want bulimia, 0:24:53.720 --> 0:24:57.080 but I did try to throw up on multiple occasions, 0:24:57.720 --> 0:25:00.679 and I just like literally couldn't do it physically. And 0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:02.600 that was probably a really good thing because I could 0:25:02.640 --> 0:25:05.920 see myself getting into that back then. But one year 0:25:05.960 --> 0:25:09.439 I ended up homeschooling because my dance schedule at that 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:12.760 particular ballet school was so intense that like, I was 0:25:12.800 --> 0:25:16.120 missing a lot of school. During that time, I got 0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:18.840 really into like trying certain foods. So for a while 0:25:18.880 --> 0:25:21.200 I was really into grape fruit and grape nuts, which 0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:22.680 I also thought was funny because it was like the 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:25.280 word great and both of these foods, and like I 0:25:25.320 --> 0:25:28.760 would eat like a late breakfast because I was homeschool 0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:30.640 so I could do this. I would eat late breakfast 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:33.800 of like half a grapefruit and some grape nuts and 0:25:33.840 --> 0:25:39.199 then some other snack or food and then you know, 0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:42.840 not eat after my allotted hour and be done eating 0:25:42.840 --> 0:25:48.360 for the day. Wow. And that year, I don't think 0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:51.679 I really noticed it, but I guess I must have 0:25:51.720 --> 0:25:54.479 lost a lot of weight. I remember at the end 0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:56.960 of the year, I was like at the bar next 0:25:56.960 --> 0:25:59.119 to the mirror. We wasn't during class. It was like 0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:01.440 maybe people we're putting their point shoes on or something. 0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:06.800 My teacher said Erica, like, I've noticed your leotards. Look 0:26:06.880 --> 0:26:09.720 your leotard's loose. Your leotard's loose on you. You're looking 0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:15.159 good or something like that, jeez, basically complimenting me that 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:19.840 my leotard, which I had worn, you know, regularly throughout 0:26:19.840 --> 0:26:24.159 the year, was now loose on me. And I felt 0:26:24.160 --> 0:26:27.480 so good when she said that. Oh my god, Oh 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:32.200 I was so happy. I was so happy. Around this time, 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:36.240 I remember how ballet started monopolizing our family life, either 0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:39.320 because Erica wasn't around as much or just because we 0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:46.520 were spending so much time doing things for ballet. We'd 0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:49.080 spend time in the Point shoe store while Erica tried 0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:51.199 on shoes, and our mom and I would help se 0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:54.200 on ribbons. We'd burn the edges with a lit match 0:26:54.280 --> 0:26:56.600 so they wouldn't fray. We'd go to the mall and 0:26:56.640 --> 0:27:00.320 purchase expensive hair pieces or stage makeup that the school requested. 0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:04.040 Then there were the countless car rides and waiting for 0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:08.760