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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A four year old little girl,

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Speaker 1: the oxygen getting sucked from her body as her mommy

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Speaker 1: stands by and watches. It's not quite what you think.

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Speaker 1: The four year old little talk girl nearly dying from

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Speaker 1: head life. You heard me right. A four year old

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Speaker 1: talk girl nearly dying from headlife. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: A four year old talk girl dying from headlines. How

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Speaker 1: does that happen? Listen? This is a situation. Local health

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Speaker 1: officials say they are shocked by, and they say the

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Speaker 1: situation was one hundred preventable. This is very rare. This

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Speaker 1: is the exception, not the norm. According to court documents,

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Speaker 1: in Scottsburg, Indiana, two children were brought to the hospital

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Speaker 1: with a severe lice infestation. One of the children's infestation

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Speaker 1: was so severe the hospital said the four year old

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Speaker 1: was near death. How can that be? And how could

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Speaker 1: a mother stand by and watch it happen? Again? Thanks

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Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation in series

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Speaker 1: one eleven with me an all star panel to try

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Speaker 1: and make sense of it. First of all, judge, trial,

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Speaker 1: lawyer or anchor Court TV. Ashley Wilcot at Ashley Wilcot

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Speaker 1: Dot com doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic psychologists at panther mitigation

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Speaker 1: dot com. Author of criminal Behavior with us, Doctor Bernard Cohen,

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Speaker 1: Professor Pediatrics and Dermatology at Johns Hopkins Children's Center. Author

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Speaker 1: a pediatric dermatology Cheryl McCollum, Director of the Coldcase Research Institute,

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Speaker 1: forensics expert. You can find her at Coldcase Crimes dot org.

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Speaker 1: An Anjanette Levy Emmy nominated reporter and anchor, and you

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Speaker 1: can find her on Twitter at Anjanette five. First to

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Speaker 1: doctor Bernard Cohen, Professor Pediatrics and Dermatology at Johns Hopkins. Doctor,

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Speaker 1: how is it that lice can end up killing you?

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Speaker 1: I mean, to be honest with you, this is a

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Speaker 1: rares hens teeth, To be honest with you. This would

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Speaker 1: if I had a child who team in with an

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Speaker 1: iron level, a red blood cell, you know, a blood

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Speaker 1: level that this low, it would make me think about

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Speaker 1: more than just the headlights issue. It would make me

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Speaker 1: think that there's issues of neglects that I want to

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Speaker 1: know a lot more about this kid's history, the immusations

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Speaker 1: up to date, the child seeing the pediatrician as this

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Speaker 1: kid had normal, normal care at helmet would make me worry.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it's so rare. I looked to see if

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Speaker 1: I could find any data on how much's blood these

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Speaker 1: organisms that take from your scalp, and it turns out

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Speaker 1: that in a normal kid it gets infested with the

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Speaker 1: head lasts that it's like each each byte takes like

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Speaker 1: like one hundredth one hundredth or one ten thousandth of

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Speaker 1: a milli leader of blood, and one milli leaders would

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Speaker 1: be one thirtieth of an ounce. So there were a

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Speaker 1: couple of rare reports of patients presenting and a couple

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Speaker 1: of children presenting with very very very low iron levels

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Speaker 1: and very very low red blood cell levels, and these

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Speaker 1: of organisms in the scalp, which is again incredibly rare.

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Speaker 1: I've never ever seen or heard of anything like this,

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Speaker 1: and even well, you're never going to believe this, doctor Cohen.

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Speaker 1: But in the last six months, I've covered a case

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Speaker 1: where a little girl died from headlines. They had been

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Speaker 1: sucking her blood for so long, and there were so

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Speaker 1: many of them. I mean, for this child, this little

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Speaker 1: four year old taught girl, and a six year old

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Speaker 1: girl to be in such bad shape, how many headlines

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Speaker 1: would there have to have been. It's hard for me

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Speaker 1: to understand it. I can give you a sense of this,

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Speaker 1: But again, in the few rare reports, in most people

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Speaker 1: with headlights there maybe a couple hundred organisms. I mean

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Speaker 1: maybe two hundred organisms. The one case that I'm actually

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Speaker 1: found in the literature had like twenty five hundred, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know how that's something that could have been neglected.

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Speaker 1: So you're talking about not just headlines. You're talking about

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Speaker 1: kids who are neglected overall. So it would make me

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Speaker 1: worry about just everything in the household is to keep

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Speaker 1: getting adequate nutrition, Is everything else being taken care of?

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Speaker 1: And how long has this kid been neglected? And the

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Speaker 1: thing is this is it everybody with that kind of infestation,

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Speaker 1: everybody in the household would be infested. So it makes

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Speaker 1: me worry there's something more going on with his mom

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Speaker 1: in terms of her general care of the kids at

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Speaker 1: home other than just the head life issue and gets

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Speaker 1: secondary infection can cause severe complications too, but doesn't happened quickly.

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Speaker 1: This is different. Doctor Bernarco, along with doctor Sherry Schwartz,

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Speaker 1: asked you Wilcott Shell, McCallum and a Jeanette Levy. I

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Speaker 1: hope you're sitting down, take a. Listen, you were hearing

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Speaker 1: our friend l Smith wha S eleven. Listen. Stephen Harold,

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Speaker 1: an officer with the Scottsburg City Police, worked this case

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Speaker 1: and in the probable cause said, I began receiving information

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Speaker 1: and photographs of the four year old and six year

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Speaker 1: old that showed an infestation of life like nothing I

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Speaker 1: had ever seen before. That four year old girl could

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Speaker 1: no longer walk and needed four blood transfusions. Why the

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Speaker 1: child's hemoglobin levels were one point seven rather than the

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Speaker 1: normal twelve? Okay, what does that mean, doctor Bernard Cohen?

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Speaker 1: At one point seven rather than twelve, and she can

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Speaker 1: no longer walk, needed four blood transfusions. Well, if that

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Speaker 1: happened to you, uh, let's say, if today you were

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Speaker 1: twelve point seven, heman Globin, and tomorrow you are at

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Speaker 1: one point seven, you'd be dead. This is something that

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Speaker 1: could have only happened over a period of many years

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Speaker 1: because because they well she's only four. I know, can

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Speaker 1: I jump in, Nashley, But we're going what else is

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Speaker 1: going on in this family? So I don't want to

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Speaker 1: know you're right. You're right about that, and doctor, and

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Speaker 1: let me tell you, this is like a big family

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Speaker 1: sitting around the separate table arguing, so go a habit aus.

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Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott and Cheryl McCollum will interrupt you. Okay, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: ash all right, thank you, because the doctor's absolutely right

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Speaker 1: and he's been kind. He's saying, I would want to

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Speaker 1: know I'd be concerned about abuse or neglect, specifically neglect.

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Speaker 1: As a judge, I sit on the bench, I hear

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Speaker 1: these cases. I'm a child welfair law specialist, and I

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Speaker 1: say that to tell you this. He's absolutely spot on right.

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Speaker 1: This type of infestation is a result of medical neglect. Period.

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Speaker 1: It's neglect. A parent is not paying attention to nor

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Speaker 1: taking care of their child if it reaches this level

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Speaker 1: of infestation. I mean, you know, Cheryl McCollum, director of

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Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute, I know Doctor Bernard Cohen

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Speaker 1: is saying this is rare. You and I just investigated

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Speaker 1: a case in the last six months of a little

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Speaker 1: girl that died from life's infestation and an as doctor

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Speaker 1: Cohen is saying, total neglect because if you can't see

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Speaker 1: there's something wrong with your child when the hemoglobin is

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Speaker 1: one point seven rather than the normal twelve, as doctor

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Speaker 1: Cohen just said, you'd be dead if that were one

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Speaker 1: of us. How can the mom and where's the dad?

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Speaker 1: I haven't even heard about him, not noticed there's something

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Speaker 1: wrong with the child. I mean, you know what the

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Speaker 1: other day, Cheryl, I was so worried about Lucy. She

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Speaker 1: was sheet white and she had dark circles under her eyes.

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Speaker 1: I immediately, as soon as I could get an appointment,

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Speaker 1: took her to the pediatrician. And she was, believe it

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Speaker 1: or not, borderline anemic. She got in her hat. She

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a vegan. No if it's to vegans.

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Speaker 1: But I was worried about this very same thing. And

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Speaker 1: you know it happened. She was not anemic, but she

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Speaker 1: needed help with her blood, the iron in her blood.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying is I immediately got worried. How can

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Speaker 1: you not notice your child is it can't walk anymore? Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a reason this mother's been charged with a crime,

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Speaker 1: because she's a straight up criminal. You have a four

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Speaker 1: year old who has this suffering four years at least

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Speaker 1: half of her life. She has slowly being killed by

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Speaker 1: life to the point she can't walk. Yeah, mama needs

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Speaker 1: are being jail. Straight up crime stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: you know what, Let's just start at the beginning, joining

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Speaker 1: me right now and Jeanette Leavy, Emmy nominated reporter and

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Speaker 1: anchor on Twitter at a Jeanette five. And Jeanette, tell

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Speaker 1: me what happened? What do we know? Well, we know

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Speaker 1: that the little girl there was a four year old girl,

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Speaker 1: the one who nearly died in her six year old sister,

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Speaker 1: and the school had told the they had life. And

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Speaker 1: this was in March, and the mom was told that

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Speaker 1: she needed to take care of us. And the children

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Speaker 1: missed thirty one days of school beginning in March, and

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Speaker 1: the six year old had the lice for three days.

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Speaker 1: The school told the mom in March. She then missed

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Speaker 1: thirty one days of school, according to the court records,

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Speaker 1: and her human globin levels were low, but not as

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Speaker 1: low as her younger sisters. So child's Services took the

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Speaker 1: children away from the mom and gave them Can I

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Speaker 1: circle back on something you just said? You said the

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Speaker 1: school alerted the mother your child has had lice, and

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Speaker 1: then immediately she got taken at school for thirty one days. Well,

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Speaker 1: she missed thirty one days of school, which makes you

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Speaker 1: wonder Usually if kids missed too much school, The school

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Speaker 1: gets involved and calls the police, and you know, there's

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Speaker 1: an investigation. Lone did that happen? Here? We're not one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent sure of that Child's services did get involved.

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Speaker 1: So oh, plays, that's like yelling out the car window

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Speaker 1: on Madison Avenue. You call Defects Department, Family Children's Services.

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Speaker 1: Nothing happens. They probably made a note in a file

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Speaker 1: that they put away in a warehouse. And here this

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Speaker 1: little girl can hardly walk. I see a failure, Assue Willcott.

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Speaker 1: I don't think the school took action with a child

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Speaker 1: missing thirty one days of school and defects that's a joke.

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Speaker 1: Calling child Protective services forget about it. And the unfortunate

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Speaker 1: thing is, you know, often child Protective Services is dealing

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Speaker 1: with a death of a child, and so things like oh,

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Speaker 1: a child has life, they don't pay as much attention to.

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Speaker 1: But thirty one days out of school, that would that

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Speaker 1: would get my attention. I would think the child could

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Speaker 1: be dead. Absolutely, That's what I was going to say.

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Speaker 1: The school issue compounds that, and something should have been

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Speaker 1: done before thirty one day. And let me just add something,

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Speaker 1: a little addendum, as we love to say in the

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Speaker 1: law a caught. Also to speak, CPS is dealing with

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Speaker 1: dead children for a reason because CPS puts abused children

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Speaker 1: back in the home for them to get murdered. That's

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Speaker 1: why CPS is in on it, because it's their fault

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Speaker 1: along with the killer. Here we've got a child at

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Speaker 1: of school thirty one days and nobody notices, nobody lifts

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Speaker 1: a finger. Well, I want you to take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our cut four l Smith of h as eleven.

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Speaker 1: Kathain Webb, an infection and prevention manager for Scott Memorial Hospital, said,

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Speaker 1: this case of lice is uncommon. It's extremely rare to

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Speaker 1: have a case that is that severe. And I think

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Speaker 1: you can see through that case if you are. If

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Speaker 1: it does go on and on, it can lead to that.

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Speaker 1: But that would be, in my opinion, a very heavy

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Speaker 1: infestation that's gone on for a great deal of time.

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Speaker 1: So that tells me even more the mom stood by

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Speaker 1: and watched this happen, as doctor Bernard Cohen told us

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Speaker 1: for a great period of time. To doctor Sherry Schwartz

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Speaker 1: joining us for psychologist, author of Criminal Behavior and Where

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Speaker 1: Law and Psychology intersect, Dodger Schwartz, that takes uh, let

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Speaker 1: me say, a unique type of criminal mind to stand

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Speaker 1: by and watch two little girls suffer too near death. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: I'm you know, it's it's really you know, it's really

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Speaker 1: troubling that she is told by the school there's this

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Speaker 1: headlice problem, and it seems that she doesn't do anything

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Speaker 1: to try to solve it, and that makes me wonder

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Speaker 1: what's going on with her. This kind of neglect of

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Speaker 1: children that is seen over and over in the courts.

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Speaker 1: Often the parent than neglectful parent has some sort of

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Speaker 1: major mental illness, possibly clinical depression, major depression, maybe bipolar disorder.

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Speaker 1: But also there could be you know, drug problems that

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Speaker 1: she might have. And if she's an addict, then she's

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Speaker 1: not caring about much of anything. It's hard to imagine

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Speaker 1: that she also didn't have a life's problem. If it

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Speaker 1: was it was it was so prolific in her home

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Speaker 1: and she's around these children, then surely she must also

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Speaker 1: have the problem. I would be very surprised to find

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Speaker 1: that she didn't. I want to follow up on what

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Speaker 1: you're saying, Aryl McCollum. We are hearing renown forensic psychologist

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Speaker 1: doctor Sherry Schwartz speaking about what may or may not

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Speaker 1: be plaguing the mother. Depression, bipolar, possible drugs. We don't

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Speaker 1: know any of that. But my overarching question, charl McCollum,

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Speaker 1: is do I care? Do I care why the mother

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Speaker 1: tortured her children too near death? Do I? I mean,

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Speaker 1: if she has bipolar, I want her to be treated.

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Speaker 1: I don't want her to suffer. If she has a

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Speaker 1: drug problem. I wanted to get well, But I'm focused

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Speaker 1: right now on the little girl that can't walk. Don't

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Speaker 1: come whining to me that you're depressed and that's why

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Speaker 1: you didn't take care of your children and let them

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Speaker 1: come that close to death, to the brink of death.

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Speaker 1: Can I make a comment to here sort of the

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Speaker 1: vicious cycle sort of phenomena. So let's say she gets

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Speaker 1: a headlights infestation, gets a normal headlights infestation, but when

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Speaker 1: she gets this kind of infestation with thousands of organisms,

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Speaker 1: which is incredibly rare, it makes me think that she's

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Speaker 1: becoming chronically ill, malnourished. There's all sorts of other things

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Speaker 1: going on which allows her to get thousands of organisms

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Speaker 1: for a period of years. That is profound And I

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Speaker 1: totally agree this. This mom a long time ago needed

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Speaker 1: to be fully evaluated for all these other issues that

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Speaker 1: may have confounded and created the maltreatment or neglect. Probably think,

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Speaker 1: for the love of Pete, this woman is sorry and

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Speaker 1: good for now. That's all there is to it. And

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Speaker 1: we can sit there and say, oh, she's this, or

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Speaker 1: she's that, or she's this, or she's she's a mama,

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Speaker 1: and by that, she had an obligation legally and morally

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Speaker 1: to take care of those babies. And I guarantee you

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Speaker 1: this six year old sister is going to make an

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Speaker 1: incredible witness because before that four year old rendered able

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Speaker 1: to walk, how many times she hain't it? Think how

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Speaker 1: many times she really catch your breath? She had energy,

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Speaker 1: those organisms subtly oxygen added blood. She couldn't play like

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Speaker 1: a normal four year old. She couldn't eat like a

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Speaker 1: normal four year old. She probably laying around with urgic

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Speaker 1: and pitiful while we sit around talking about she may

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Speaker 1: have been depressed, Mommy may have been depressed. Doctor co

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Speaker 1: When you're preaching to the choir, all right, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if they have that saving saying it, Johns Hopkins,

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Speaker 1: but I'm on board with you. Of course she was

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Speaker 1: neglecting the children. I agree, But right now I'm worried

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Speaker 1: about the thousands of headlines sucking the auxygen out of

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Speaker 1: her blood. And you know that's an easy fix. That's

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Speaker 1: actually an easy fix. To be honest with you, You're right,

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Speaker 1: I know that I get it. But she didn't do it.

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Speaker 1: That's what is so incredibly poignant. It is an easy fix,

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Speaker 1: but instead of fixing it, she let her girls suffer.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at crime online dot

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Speaker 1: com our cut eight. After discovering the lece infestations, sings

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Speaker 1: grandmother says she confronted Sing about how the lice infestation

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Speaker 1: had gotten so out of hand, but Sing allegedly replied

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Speaker 1: that she didn't notice that she was just in a fog.

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Speaker 1: Looking for advice. The grandmother took the photos of the

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Speaker 1: infestation to a pharmacist, and the pharmacists recommended getting the

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Speaker 1: children to the hospital. She took the advice. They were

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Speaker 1: admitted in such poor physical condition that child Services contacted

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Speaker 1: local police. The grandmother reportedly told police that the girls

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Speaker 1: also had life last November, but that scene was just

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Speaker 1: too lazy to help comb them out, and it would

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Speaker 1: start all over again. Too lazy to comb them out.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, but you Enginette Levy,

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Speaker 1: reporter and anchor. So the grandmother steps in and tries

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Speaker 1: to say the girls she knows something horribly wrong. She

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Speaker 1: confronts the mother, and the mother says, oh, I didn't notice.

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Speaker 1: Did I understand that correctly? Yes, you did. And the

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Speaker 1: mother said that she was in a fog. That makes

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Speaker 1: you wonder if she was on drugs or just didn't care.

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Speaker 1: So okay, actually I'm not really wondering. I'm not wondering,

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Speaker 1: and I'll tell you why because I'm more concerned about

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Speaker 1: the children than nearly died at mommy's hands. Now, if

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Speaker 1: it were a case of documented insanity, which is a

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Speaker 1: legal defense under the law, I might perk up and listen.

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Speaker 1: But other than that, to sit by and watch your

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Speaker 1: children as they are dying and you do nothing, I mean,

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Speaker 1: as she will caught in my mind, this is really

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Speaker 1: no different than the House of Horrors out in California,

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Speaker 1: where the Turpin parents wouldn't feed their children and kept

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Speaker 1: them locked and chained to their beds and starved them.

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Speaker 1: They stood by and watched them starve. Here she's watching

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Speaker 1: her children die and didn't notice. Right now, there are

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Speaker 1: obviously other issues, other concerns, other things, because there's no way,

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Speaker 1: there's no way a person wouldn't notice and they are

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Speaker 1: watching them die because this level of infestation, Okay, nice

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Speaker 1: life knits or eggs. You may not be able to see.

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Speaker 1: You may not notice unless you're specifically looking. This level

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Speaker 1: of infestation. Anybody can see when I see anybody. You

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Speaker 1: could walk the child through a grocery store and one

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Speaker 1: of us would say, oh my gosh, look at their head.

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Speaker 1: They need medical care. This mother wasn't paying attention. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about a four year old and a

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Speaker 1: six year old little girl, two of them sisters, that

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Speaker 1: nearly die as mommy sits by twirling her thumbs. I

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Speaker 1: believe it or not, life infestation and as our friend

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Speaker 1: doctor Bernard Cohen fron Johns Hopkins says, it was probably

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Speaker 1: hand in hand with so many other types of neglect.

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Speaker 1: But this is what we know. The hemoglobin account was

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Speaker 1: low enough to kill someone and a little four year

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Speaker 1: old couldn't even stand up. Where were the social workers?

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Speaker 1: Where were the school? Nobody knows, but take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our friends at crime Online. The pharmacist's advice likely

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Speaker 1: saved the four year old's life. Doctors described the girl's

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Speaker 1: condition as a near fatality because she had lost so

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Speaker 1: much blood. Life's feed on human blood, and if left untreated,

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Speaker 1: an infestation can cause anemia. According to an Affidavid, hospital

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Speaker 1: staff told police they measured the girl's hemoglobin levels when

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Speaker 1: she was admitted. Hemoglobin is a protein in red blood

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Speaker 1: cells that carries oxygen throughout the body and gets rid

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Speaker 1: of carbon dioxide. Typically, hemoglobin levels are around twelve grams

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Speaker 1: per desolator, but hospital staff said the four year old

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Speaker 1: girls levels were the lowest they had ever seen, measuring

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Speaker 1: just one point seven. Court documents showed that the four

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Speaker 1: year old had to have at least four blood transfusions

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Speaker 1: and was so sick she could not walk. The six

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Speaker 1: year old girls hemoglobin levels were eight point seven grams

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Speaker 1: per desolator. Take a list our friend Rick van Hughes

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Speaker 1: at w lk Y He's of arrest of the Scotsburg

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Speaker 1: woman after investigators say a four year old had life

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Speaker 1: so bad she almost died. Cheyenne Singh faces multiple neglect charges.

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Speaker 1: Officials say the girl was take into a hospital last

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Speaker 1: month and nearly died because of the lice it had

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Speaker 1: been feeding on her blood for so long? And what

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Speaker 1: does it look like? If your child has lice, much

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Speaker 1: less enough not lies to kill them, take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our cut sixty American Academy of Dermatology. First see

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Speaker 1: if your child has lice by sitting your child under

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Speaker 1: a bright light. Separate hair into sections, and carefully search

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Speaker 1: each section. Look for eggs called nits that look like

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Speaker 1: tiny seeds attached to the hair. In contrast to dandruff,

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Speaker 1: the nitz cannot be easily removed from the hair. The

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Speaker 1: nitz can be yellow, brown, or tan. If the lice

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Speaker 1: haven't hatched. Live knitz are clear and found within an

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Speaker 1: inch of the scalp. Lice and nits are more commonly

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Speaker 1: found in the hair behind the ears and around the

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Speaker 1: nape of the neck. So to you, doctor Bernard Cohen,

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Speaker 1: have you ever seen a case like this? For the

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Speaker 1: child is near death? Now listen, this is something that

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Speaker 1: did not happen overnight, because if you go from twelve

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Speaker 1: grams to one point one point seven overnight, you're dead.

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Speaker 1: That's what happens when you get your leg cut off

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Speaker 1: and have a giant bleed. You know, she got four transfusions.

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Speaker 1: This is something that happened over probably a period of

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Speaker 1: at least a year or longer. I did several years,

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Speaker 1: and it just and not only that, but again, at

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Speaker 1: this point, she probably had many hundreds or of thousands

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Speaker 1: of life in her scalp. This is the kind of

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Speaker 1: thing where you don't need to magnify her to see this.

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Speaker 1: If you just look at her hair, you probably see

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Speaker 1: these things crawling all over the place. It also makes

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Speaker 1: me wonder a couple of the case reports I found

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Speaker 1: showed evidence not just that headlights, but also body lice,

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Speaker 1: ubig lice. But I mean to be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: this would have been possibly thousands of organisms at this point.

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Speaker 1: And this is something that happened over a very long

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Speaker 1: period of time. This is something that if they were

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Speaker 1: out in public, other family members, friends, neighbors, you're right,

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Speaker 1: in the shopping center, everybody in the in the store

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Speaker 1: would notice this. This is not something difficult to say.

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Speaker 1: So this is something where these kids were probably hidden

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Speaker 1: away from the public. I don't know what their ortal

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Speaker 1: intake was like, we don't know how they were fed,

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Speaker 1: we don't know what this mother did, But this is

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Speaker 1: a lot more than lice. My suspicion is that lice

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Speaker 1: is just one of the many symptoms of what was

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Speaker 1: going on crazy in this household. You know, I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about what this child went through. Doctor Barnard co and

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Speaker 1: joining us from Johns Hopkins. He is a pediatric dermatologist.

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Speaker 1: He is the author of Pediatric Dermatology. He literally wrote

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Speaker 1: the book, Doctor Barnard Cohen. How would the children have felt?

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Speaker 1: Would they feel any pain? Oh my god? I mean

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Speaker 1: initially these kids would have I mean they would have

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Speaker 1: been itchy, like crazy, They would have been uncomfortable. I

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Speaker 1: can't imagin And then you were able to sleep at night.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot going on here, and I could say

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Speaker 1: you're Pemoglevan doesn't drop from twelve to one point seven

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Speaker 1: overnight without killing you. It's got to be something that

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Speaker 1: happens chronically over a long period of time. So these

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Speaker 1: kids were absolutely miserable for a long period of very

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Speaker 1: long period of time. There's no question as she will caught.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever get totally saturated with crimes on children

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Speaker 1: where each case seemingly is worse than the case before, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely, And you think you've seen it all, and

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Speaker 1: you think, oh my gosh, I'm never going to see

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Speaker 1: this again. And it all gets worse and you see more.

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Speaker 1: And this is a case of you never think that

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Speaker 1: somebody's going to neglect something that's so visible to the

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Speaker 1: naked eye, but yet parents do this over and over.

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Speaker 1: This is not the first case. And did you hear

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Speaker 1: our friends at crime online dot Com to Cheryl mccollin

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Speaker 1: directrical case researches, did you say, if it had not

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Speaker 1: been for that pharmacist, this girl would have died right

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Speaker 1: And Nancy, I'll tell you I've been looking at her

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Speaker 1: social media and it looks like her two children had

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Speaker 1: almost crew cuts before. I don't know if this has

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Speaker 1: happened again, but I'm pretty sure said and it happened

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Speaker 1: before and to the point they needed their head shaved.

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Speaker 1: Nancy May I in subject for one second, just to

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Speaker 1: share some context, because Cheryl and doctor Collen are right

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Speaker 1: on the money. It looks like Cheyenne Nichol Singh was

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Speaker 1: charged with a felony neglect of a dependent back in

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Speaker 1: June of twenty nineteen. This is public record, so this

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Speaker 1: has been a chronic, ongoing problem. It doesn't say why.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if this was life, but it also

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Speaker 1: was in a different jurisdiction, So it makes me, from

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Speaker 1: a psychological perspective, wonder. This case is supposed to go

426
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: to trial in August, so it makes me wonder. So

427
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: she get up and moved to the neighboring jurisdiction because

428
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: she knows that she's in trouble. And actually we see that.

429
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: That call it in practice living Cheryl Or asked she

430
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: jumping in, Cheryl, Yeah, I was just about to say,

431
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: we see that a lot with abused children. Go ahead, Cheryl,

432
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: it's common practice. If the cab counties investigating you moved

433
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: to Grannette, if Glenette gets a hold of you, moved

434
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: to Fulton, and they're not gonna hardly be able to

435
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: keep up and find you. So you just stay ahead

436
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: of being charged and you are able to maintain because

437
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 1: of your children time stories with Nancy Grace. Well, guys,

438
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 1: I hate to crash all your theories that mommy has

439
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: depression and maybe she's on dope and maybe she's bipolar. No,

440
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: I'm looking at her picture right now. She's a ammer

441
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: girl on Facebook and Insta. She's got all these pictures

442
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: totally made up, looking awesome, doing that trout pucker thing

443
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: with her lips at the camera. Mmm, no, I'm looking

444
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: right at her. I wonder if she's going to look

445
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: like that in court, because it's almost time for her

446
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: first appearance. At the hospital, the girl's levels of iron

447
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: were so low they declared it a near fatality for

448
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: blood transfusions for a four year old girl. What does

449
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: that mean to you, doctor Bernardo, when a blood transfusion

450
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: four of them? Well, just again, when you have when

451
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: your blood level was that low, you don't want to

452
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: give a large quantity of blood to correct it overnight

453
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: because that could be overwhelming and could cause some complicate,

454
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: serious complications as well. What you probably would like to

455
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: do is spread out the transfusions so that the child

456
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: can accommodate to the volume of blood that they're giving

457
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: this kid. And again, I mean how much is for

458
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: blood transfusions versus how much blood is in your body?

459
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: To start with, Guys, we're talking to doctor Bernarco and

460
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: joining us from Johns Hopkins Children's Central. Doctor comen how

461
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: much blood is even in your body? Well, again, I

462
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: usually figure like, uh, you know, one hundred one hundred,

463
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: one hundred ccs, which is like three ounces for every

464
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: can you speak to me and like gallons or cartons

465
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: of milk or coke bottles. Well, and a kid this

466
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: age you're you're probably talking about, got the normal weight.

467
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: It's like about twenty five kilos. You're talking at like

468
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: two and a half two and a half liters or

469
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: three leaders, which would be like what like, um, a

470
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: gallon of milk? Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah a little

471
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: bit more than that. But the thing is this is okay,

472
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: a gallon and a half of milk, that's how much

473
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: blood we have and about a body of say a

474
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: four year old girl. All right, how much is for

475
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: blood transfuse? Well, again, what they're not telling you is

476
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: the quantity that gave you with each blood transfusion, because

477
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: they probably had to give her a fairly large quantity,

478
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: but they divided it over a period of time so

479
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: as not to put her into heart failure. You know,

480
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: if you if you corrected that overnight, you could cause

481
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: more trouble then trying to figure out how much I mean,

482
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: did she look? Does she have to have half her blood?

483
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: She added? I mean how much? Again? I remember that

484
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: when you give elect transfusion, you're giving a certain volume, uh,

485
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: you know, to replace it, and the blood on the

486
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: transfusion is probably normal concentration, so it's probably going to

487
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: be like a twelve or thirteen uh Gram's Fermill leaders

488
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: now say, that's just the kind of talk that I

489
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: never left before a jury, because nobody knows what you're saying.

490
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: The bottom line is milk cartons and coke bottles. Please,

491
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: you probably have to give her. You probably have to

492
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: give her a homemark milk Carton to replace that. But

493
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: you can't do it. Thank you, because you can't. And

494
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: you know another thing that's thrown me off, doctor Bernard Cohen,

495
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: is I'm looking here at mommy to use Cheryl McCollum.

496
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 1: You know how you always see the Kardashians. I happen

497
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: to see them during my legal research every morning. But

498
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: they're always taking a there's a picture of them taking

499
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: a picture of themselves with a cell phone. I'm not

500
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: knocking them. They're laughing all the way to the bank. Okay.

501
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: My point is I'm looking at mommy. In this case,

502
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: that's what she's doing, taking a selfie of herself with

503
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: some kind of crown on her head. I don't know

504
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: what that is, but this woman, she's not worried about

505
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: these two children. Have you seen She's got too many posting,

506
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: too many selfies to be worried about her children, right, Nancy.

507
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: It looks like she's had her eyebrows done, her hair's

508
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: always done, and some of the pictures that she's got,

509
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, other accessories on his children or the other

510
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: thing that makes me word what doctor, I'm just gonna

511
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: say the other thing that makes me worries that since

512
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: this is a problem that occurred chronically over probably a

513
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: period of at least a year or two, maybe even longer,

514
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to believe that if the mob,

515
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: if the child of the children were actually seeing the

516
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: grandparents on a regular basis or other friends on a

517
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: regular basis, that nobody else would have jumped on us

518
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: way before that, doctor, they could hardly walk. I don't

519
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: think they're visiting very many friends and relatives. The grandma

520
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,719
Speaker 1: did find out about it, and doctor Cohen, remember how

521
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: you were You said this was very rare. Well, take

522
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut nine. This is ashen Web

523
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: at channel thirteen wmaz dvacs by will show a call

524
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen about the home being quote bug infested,

525
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: excessive cats and hazardous conditions. Our folks came in, they

526
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: saw that the house was really a wreck, dvax and greed,

527
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: the house was unsanitary, and Caitlyn was placed outside the

528
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: home with an ant, but returned six days later. So

529
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: they responding very quickly to our requests that they made

530
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: this house a fit place to live. That indicated to

531
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: us that they were in fact capable of caring for Kaitlyn.

532
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: He says, there wasn't enough evidence to pull Caitlyn out

533
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: of the home in two thousand and eight or twenty eighteen.

534
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: The standard required to remove a child from home is

535
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: that the child is an imminent dangerous and there's the

536
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: child's safety. Is it really a threat? Now, that can

537
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: be emotional safety as well as physical safety. But we

538
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: also do get involved with cases that maybe are a

539
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: little less than that, but that where there's a chronic

540
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: issue where we need the assistance of the courts in

541
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: making sure the family does what they need to do

542
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: to remedy the situation. There, you're hearing the speaker address

543
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: what doctor Cohen is saying. With severe headlines infestation to

544
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: the point of near death, there are other issues typically

545
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: in the home issues of neglect and in that case,

546
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends w XIA eleven cut twelve.

547
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: In August, Katie Horton and Joey Yazviiak were both charged

548
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 1: with murder and child cruelty in the twelve year old's death.

549
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: A GBI investigator testified Monday that Caitlin's death likely resulted

550
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: from a severe lice infestation. Special Agent Ryan Hilton testified

551
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: that Caitlin's primary cause of death was cardiac arrest, the

552
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: secondary cause was anemia. He said the girl's life infestation

553
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: was the worst he'd ever seen and doctors had ever seen,

554
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: and it may have lasted for years. Hilton said repeated

555
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: bites lowered her blood iron levels, which likely caused that

556
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: anemia and may have triggered the heart attack. After hearing

557
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: the evidence, Judge Brenda Trammell ruled there was enough evidence

558
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: to charge both parents that little girl dies because of

559
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: life's infestation after living years of misery, because mommy and

560
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: daddy do nothing to you. And Jeanette Levy, Emmy Nominated

561
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: Reporter and anchor, where is mommy now? And hey, it's

562
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: not all her. I haven't heard a word about daddy.

563
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: Where is he We don't know anything about the dad.

564
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: The mom is facing the charges, but we haven't really

565
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: heard anything about dad, and there's nothing showing dad on

566
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: the Instagram or the Facebook that I can see, and

567
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: I'm wondering how much time she can face. Typically with

568
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: a case like this, it's a revolving door, as she

569
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: will cut. Oh, of course, absolutely, it is so the

570
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: thing that happens in cases like this. It's a little

571
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: bit different when it gets this the beer, but it's

572
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: true when they first investigate, the goal is always by

573
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 1: the bed's reunification. The child may get treated and then

574
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: the child goes home. Nancy, that's the reality of what

575
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: happens back in the home. Sad to say, I do

576
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: know that the mom is still in custody and straight

577
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: out to you got to Sherry Schwartz. Based on what

578
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: I'm seeing and this is just on the outside looking

579
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: in and all of her postings of herself, it doesn't

580
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: look like mommy's at all concerned about the children. What

581
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: frame of mind, what mindset is that? Well, one of

582
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: the things that you know, in considering that and looking

583
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: at her social media and you know, all of those postings,

584
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: is you know, you think about self centered possibly rising

585
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: to the level of narcissism. But the one problem with that,

586
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: and it doesn't mean it's not true, but the one

587
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 1: question mark in my mind is a narcissist generally will

588
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: want their children to look a certain way too right,

589
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: because they you know, they want to trot them out

590
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: for social media. But maybe in this case, because she's

591
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: not doing that, that she's only putting herself out there.

592
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: It could be where she just wants to pretend she

593
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: doesn't have children, and you know, it doesn't take a

594
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: really big leap to then completely neglect those children. There

595
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: are a few photos where she has them kind of

596
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: like on parade, using them as props. We wait as

597
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: justice unfalls and mommy goes before a judge. I'm still

598
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:42,439
Speaker 1: looking for Daddy. Nancy Grace Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,