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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern.

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Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Business App.

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Speaker 1: Or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 3: Israel sends more troops into Gaza. Welcome to the fastest

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Speaker 3: show in politics, as Israeli forces also conductor raid in

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Speaker 3: the West Bank and another airstrike in Syria as the

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Speaker 3: war with Hamas enters a new phase. We're joined by

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Speaker 3: Brett Brewin, former US diplomat now President of the Global

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Speaker 3: Situation Room for the latest on this speaker, Mike Johnson

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Speaker 3: says he will bring Israeli funding as a standalone bill

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Speaker 3: to the House floor this week. And the latest polling

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Speaker 3: from Iowa shows Nicki Hayley on the ascent in a

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Speaker 3: field that no longer includes Mike Pence. Analysis today from

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Speaker 3: our panel Bloomberg Politics contributor Republican strategist Rick Davis, joined

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Speaker 3: by Alvin Jordan, Vice president at Rock Solutions Democratic Strategy.

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Speaker 3: We've got a lot to cover on this Monday, Let's

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Speaker 3: get to it. Welcome to Monday, the Monday edition of

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington, where again

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Speaker 3: we're painting out of several buckets today and we'll bring

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Speaker 3: you the latest on Israel, on the new Republican speaker,

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Speaker 3: and the agenda ahead for the House. No one in

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Speaker 3: town right now. Lawmakers don't come back until Wednesday, as

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Speaker 3: a matter of fact, and of course the campaign trail

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Speaker 3: with new numbers today following Mike Pence dropping out of

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Speaker 3: the race over the weekend. So let's get to it.

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Speaker 3: We begin in Israel as we prepare to bring in

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Speaker 3: Brett Bruin. More Israeli forces have entered Gaza this headline

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Speaker 3: crossing the terminal ten fifty five am local time. More

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Speaker 3: forces rolling into Gaza, with the invasion advancing gradually and

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Speaker 3: according to plan, according to spokesman Daniel Hagari, who says

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Speaker 3: now two hundred and thirty nine people are thought to

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Speaker 3: be held by Hamas. John Kirby, speaking for the National

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Speaker 3: Defense Apparatus at the White House earlier today on ABC's

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Speaker 3: Good Morning.

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Speaker 4: America, the situation in Gaza is very perilous, which is

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Speaker 4: why the President spoke to Prime Minister NETANYAHUO yesterday to

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Speaker 4: make sure we can continue to accelerate that flow and

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Speaker 4: increase that flow of humanitarian goods.

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Speaker 3: The latest though on the terminal, Army says captive soldier

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Speaker 3: freed in ground fight. This is brand new, Israel says,

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Speaker 3: a female soldier held captive in Gaza was freed as

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Speaker 3: the army extends ground operations in the territory. But of

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Speaker 3: course we saw a lot happen over the weekend. We

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Speaker 3: saw Israel conduct arraid in the West Bank. We saw

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Speaker 3: another air strike in Syria. We also saw skirmishes to

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Speaker 3: the north where there are great fears that a second

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Speaker 3: front could be opening. And that's where we begin our

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Speaker 3: conversation with Bret Bruin, the president of the Global Situation Room,

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Speaker 3: former US diplomat, back with us here on Bloomberg. Brett,

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Speaker 3: it's great to see you. This is the new phase

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Speaker 3: as announced by Israel, and there's a lot of pressure,

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Speaker 3: of course, coming upon Israel to spare the lives of

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Speaker 3: Palestinian civilians. How is this going so far? How effective

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Speaker 3: has this operation been?

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Speaker 5: Well?

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Speaker 6: Look, obviously news of the release of this Israeli soldier

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Speaker 6: is encouraging and obviously will bolster Prime Minister net Nyahu

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Speaker 6: and his efforts to expeditiously undertake an operation, and it's

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Speaker 6: one Joe. I think it's important for listeners to take

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Speaker 6: account of the fact that after nine to eleven, after

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Speaker 6: the rise of ISIS in Iraq, there was no talk

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Speaker 6: of a cease fire. There was no notion that a

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Speaker 6: terrorist organization was going to be able to abide by

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Speaker 6: those terms, or quite frankly, that we would be any

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Speaker 6: better off, any safer in pursuing one. So Israel sees

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Speaker 6: the situation through that lens, and it's an understandable one

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Speaker 6: after having suffered the most significant terrorist attack on its

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Speaker 6: soil since the founding of the Jewish State. So it

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Speaker 6: obviously is a very difficult endeavor, and one that because

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Speaker 6: of how Hamas has ensconced itself in and amongst civilians, obviously,

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Speaker 6: you know these operations will have as a result a number,

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Speaker 6: a high number of civilian casualties.

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Speaker 3: AMAS says eight thousand, three hundred and six Palestinians have

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Speaker 3: been killed since the seventh of October. Authorities in Gaza

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Speaker 3: say more than three thousand of them children. Brett, This

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Speaker 3: is a very difficult narrative here for an operation that's

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Speaker 3: still widening to what extent Israel in fact trying to

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Speaker 3: spare civilians' lives. We know we're talking about dense urban

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Speaker 3: warfare and a pretty tall order for Israeli troops who

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Speaker 3: are being sent into harm's way as well.

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Speaker 6: And obviously those numbers are truly tragic and ones that

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Speaker 6: speak to just how difficult these operations have been will

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Speaker 6: be going forward. And yet obviously it is part of,

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Speaker 6: unfortunately the kind of military operation that Hamas initiated. Hamas

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Speaker 6: chose to reinitiate its attacks on Israel, and that led

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Speaker 6: to the death of fourteen hundred civilians, capture, as you

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Speaker 6: mentioned earlier, of two hundred and fifty odd civilians as

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Speaker 6: well as soldiers. All of that creates what he is,

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Speaker 6: without question, an extraordinarily difficult and dangerous situation. And it's

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Speaker 6: why I think it's important that not only the US,

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Speaker 6: but particularly regional partner are pressured to do more. You

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Speaker 6: have to ask questions, For instance, why has Egypt made

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Speaker 6: it so difficult to get humanitarian aid in let alone

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Speaker 6: allowing gozens out. You have to wonder why there have

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Speaker 6: not been more efforts by the likes of Saudi Arabia Kutar,

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Speaker 6: as well as other Golf states and close US partners

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Speaker 6: to try and pressure on both sides that there are

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Speaker 6: fewer rocket attacks, that there is a commitment to swearing

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Speaker 6: off the kinds of brutal tactics that were used in

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Speaker 6: these attacks by Hamas.

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Speaker 7: So I think there is.

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Speaker 6: Obviously, as we often discussed, diplomacy has to be central

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Speaker 6: to these efforts. Obviously the military operations are underway and

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Speaker 6: will continue, but ultimately the solution is one that runs

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Speaker 6: through diplomatic efforts.

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Speaker 3: Is it really a realistic conversation though, Brett to be

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Speaker 3: talking about sparing civilian in life when we're seeing the

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Speaker 3: use of bunker busting bombs to try to get to

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Speaker 3: these tunnels underneath Gaza, there are buildings on top of

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Speaker 3: those tunnels, and when you start getting into civilians as

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Speaker 3: human shields. The stated goal is to eliminate Hamas. Can

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Speaker 3: you eliminate Hamas without killing scores more civilians?

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Speaker 7: Well?

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Speaker 6: I think first the initial phase of the Israeli operation

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Speaker 6: did unfortunately involve quite a number of air results. It's

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Speaker 6: the same tactics that the US that our allies use,

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Speaker 6: whether it was in Israel, Afghanistan, or in other places

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Speaker 6: where ahead of sending in your troops you're going to

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Speaker 6: want to take out some of those command and control points,

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Speaker 6: some of those rocket batteries and other high value military targets.

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Speaker 6: And yes, the images coming out of Gaza are absolutely

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Speaker 6: horrific and we shouldn't lose sight of that.

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Speaker 7: And we should as I think we.

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Speaker 6: Have heard over the last several days and the last

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Speaker 6: couple of weeks efforts by the Biden administration by other

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Speaker 6: world leaders to impress upon Israel the importance of doing

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Speaker 6: everything possible to limit civilian casualties, and I think we've

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Speaker 6: seen some results to that, whether it was delaying in

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Speaker 6: that initial invasion or in just the last couple of

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Speaker 6: days restoration of telephone internet service into Gaza as well.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure saw images from this airport in Russia over

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Speaker 3: the weekend Brett Maka Kala, if I'm saying it right,

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Speaker 3: capital of Dagistan, where a mob went on a rampage

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Speaker 3: after a Red Wings plane from Tel Aviv arrived. There

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Speaker 3: are images and video of crowd running through the airport

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Speaker 3: chanting a la akbar, looking for Jews, trying to get

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Speaker 3: onto the engine. Somebody got onto the wing of the airplane.

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Speaker 3: They had to shut the entire airport down, and we

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Speaker 3: have further news on this today Brett that Vladimir Putin

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Speaker 3: is meeting with top government officials to address these anti

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Speaker 3: Semitic protests in what we should notice a predominantly Muslim

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Speaker 3: region of the country. John Kirby spoke about this earlier

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Speaker 3: today on ABC. Here's what he said.

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Speaker 4: It's certainly worrisome footage to see that all that hatred

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Speaker 4: and potential violence against the Jewish passengers on an airplane.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's absolutely unacceptable, and I mean, these are

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Speaker 4: two entities, Russia and AMAS, that want to white neighboring

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Speaker 4: countries off the map.

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Speaker 8: So that's it's very concerning.

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Speaker 4: I don't know that there was any, you know, high

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Speaker 4: level endorsement of that activity, but it's definitely definitely worrisome.

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Speaker 3: He's referring to a meeting with Hamas that Vladimir Putin had,

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Speaker 3: and I just wonder what you can tell us about

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Speaker 3: all of this bread Obviously, this was chilling to see

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Speaker 3: and something that we wouldn't have thought necessarily would have

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Speaker 3: involved Vladimir Putin to the extent that it does here.

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Speaker 3: But how concerned are you about what happened over the

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Speaker 3: weekend in Russia?

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Speaker 6: Absolutely was chilling and brought back echoes of the stories

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Speaker 6: I used to hear from my grandparents who left Russia,

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Speaker 6: Eastern Ukraine and Moldova at the time because of pagrums,

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Speaker 6: those attacks that took place against Jews in various villages

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Speaker 6: across Russia and neighboring countries. So this ought to set

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Speaker 6: off alarm bells in capitals around the world. It ought

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Speaker 6: to joe, I think, especially here in the US, where

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Speaker 6: some of the rhetoric used by politicians on both sides

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Speaker 6: of the Isle, whether it's in describing Israel's actions, whether

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Speaker 6: it's in describing what Israel or the United States should do,

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Speaker 6: need to be much much more careful. The language that

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Speaker 6: I've seen in just the last couple of weeks in

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Speaker 6: public statements and interviews as well as social tweets, is

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Speaker 6: adding more fuel to this fire, is exacerbating and quite frankly,

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Speaker 6: is endangering Americans with some of the suggestions like Vivekarswami

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Speaker 6: Ramaswami over the weekend, who suggested what ought to be

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Speaker 6: done and I'm not going to repeat it to Hamas soldiers,

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Speaker 6: these kinds of very vicious, very just extreme descriptions of

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Speaker 6: the situation. Quite frankly, inaccurate descriptions or ill considered descriptions

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Speaker 6: are exacerbating the conditions and are a leading to the

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Speaker 6: kind of mass hysteria that played out yesterday at that

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Speaker 6: Russian airport.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, mass hysteria is another good way of putting it.

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Speaker 3: And this comes against the backdrop of calls for Benjamin

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Speaker 3: Attania whose resignation Brett, while you're still with us, I

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Speaker 3: wonder if you could speak to this as he is

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Speaker 3: now apologizing for blaming security chiefs in a tweet that

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Speaker 3: was then deleted. It's kind of a long story here,

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Speaker 3: but he doesn't seem to be keeping the people of

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Speaker 3: Israel with him. As I look at the Jerusalem Post,

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Speaker 3: four of five Jewish Israelis believe the government and Prime

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Speaker 3: Minister Netanya who are to blame for the mass infiltration

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Speaker 3: of Hamas terrorists into Israel. How much trouble is he in?

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Speaker 9: Oh?

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Speaker 6: Without question, there will be a high political price to

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Speaker 6: pay for what obviously details still to be forthcoming, but

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Speaker 6: completely inacceptable, unacceptable that Hamas fighters could get into Israel.

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Speaker 6: And ultimately the buck has to stop with that Yahoo

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Speaker 6: at some point, through these investigations and ultimately a determination

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Speaker 6: of accountability. I think both he as well as perhaps

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Speaker 6: some of his cabinet members will be ushered out, and

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Speaker 6: hopefully Israel is able to put forward a government that

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Speaker 6: is going to both address the current crisis. But let's

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Speaker 6: not forget, Joe, there are a lot of issues when

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Speaker 6: it comes to settler activity, when it comes to the

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Speaker 6: judicial reform that Netnyahu was pursuing beforehand, which have obviously

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Speaker 6: created a very fragile foundation for democracy and for peace

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Speaker 6: and stability in Israel.

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Speaker 3: Brett, it's good to see you. Thanks for starting your

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Speaker 3: week with us Brett Ruin of course, at the Global

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Speaker 3: Situation Room here on Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe, Matthew

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Speaker 3: and Washington. As we assemble our panel today, Rick Davis

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Speaker 3: is with US Bloomberg Politics contributor Republican Strategist, joined by

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Speaker 3: Democratic analyst Alvin Jordan, vice president at Rock Solutions. We'll

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Speaker 3: have plenty of time to dive into this, though, Rick,

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Speaker 3: I wonder your thoughts on what you saw over the

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Speaker 3: weekend with the minute or so time that we have.

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Speaker 3: Is this next phase just the tip of the iceberg?

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Speaker 3: Or is this the ground invasion you were waiting for?

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Speaker 10: Well, I think this is a ground invasion we were anticipating,

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Speaker 10: but I'm not sure it represents just the next phase.

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Speaker 10: I mean, this is such a multi phase.

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Speaker 8: Attack plan that the Israelis have, and I.

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Speaker 10: Would say that we have to give them time to

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Speaker 10: really formulate that plan and let it see what happens

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Speaker 10: when it hits the ground, what kind of opposition you'll get,

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Speaker 10: whether or not they're successful with negotiating through the Kataris

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Speaker 10: to get hostages at back.

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Speaker 8: I mean, this is a multi stage.

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Speaker 10: Effort, and I think that the ground forces being there,

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Speaker 10: rolling up terrace elements within the Hamas organization is just

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Speaker 10: one aspect of that.

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Speaker 3: We'll have the deep dive next with our panel, not

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Speaker 3: only what's happening on the ground in Israel, but here

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Speaker 3: in Washington. Whether a request for funding will be taken

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Speaker 3: up by the House this week, the new speaker talking

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Speaker 3: about it over the weekend. That'll be Israel funding alone. However,

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Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

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Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern.

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Speaker 11: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com.

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Speaker 12: And the Bloomberg Business app.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play. Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 3: The new Speaker of the House says he stands ready

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Speaker 3: to pass aid for Israel as soon as this week.

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Speaker 3: In fact, it looks like there will be a vote

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Speaker 3: come Thursday. That's the reporting at Bloomberg. Mike Johnson speaking

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Speaker 3: with Fox over the weekend, remembering that the supplemental request

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Speaker 3: that came from the White House included funding for Israel,

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Speaker 3: for Ukraine sixty billion dollars worth, also for Taiwan, and

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Speaker 3: then the rest for border security. That's the way the

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Speaker 3: Senate is tackling this, apparently not this Republican Ledhouse. Here's

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Speaker 3: the new speaker.

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Speaker 13: Well, listen, we're going to move a standalone Israel funding

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Speaker 13: bill this week in the House. I know our colleagues

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Speaker 13: are Republican. Colleagues in the Senate have a similar measure.

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Speaker 13: We believe that that is a pressing and urgent need.

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Speaker 13: There are lots of things going on around the world

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Speaker 13: that we have to address, and we will, but right now,

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Speaker 13: what's happening in Israel takes the immediate attention.

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Speaker 3: All right, let's get into this with our panel as

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Speaker 3: the ground assaults in Israel enters a new phase, something

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Speaker 3: we were just discussing with Brett Ruin. Rick Davis joins,

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Speaker 3: of course, Bloomberg Politics contributor Republican Strategist today with Democratic

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Speaker 3: analyst Alvin Jordan at Rock Solutions. Alvin, it's great to

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Speaker 3: have you back. Thanks for joining the conversation. What's going

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Speaker 3: to happen here? If the House decides to tackle Israel

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Speaker 3: funding alone, knowing that the Senate and the White House

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Speaker 3: see this differently, isn't this kind of inevitable how this

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Speaker 3: is going to go? It'll slow things down until the

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Speaker 3: combined bill actually becomes law at some point, or are

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Speaker 3: these going to go one at a time, each cause

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Speaker 3: gets its own piece of legislation.

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Speaker 7: I think the hope truly is to have these go

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Speaker 7: one at a time.

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Speaker 14: And I think that the you know, news speaker correctly

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Speaker 14: points out that by prioritizing the immediate need in this

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Speaker 14: particular instance, that the turmoil in Israel I think demands

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Speaker 14: is a you know, great place and a clear point

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Speaker 14: of view. I think as far as you know, looking

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Speaker 14: at the situation as it stands, and I think we

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Speaker 14: would all hope that as opposed to kind of backlogging

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Speaker 14: and jamming this up a bit more, that this would

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Speaker 14: free it up and just kind of set the basis

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Speaker 14: for an understanding that we kind of have to tackle,

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Speaker 14: you know, kind of one bite at the elephant at

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Speaker 14: at a time.

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Speaker 3: Rick, It's not lost on us that Mitch McConnell is

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Speaker 3: appearing today Louisville with Oksana Markarova, the Ukrainian Ambassador of

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Speaker 3: the US, who is no stranger to American media. This

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Speaker 3: new speaker is going to have a real issue with

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Speaker 3: the Republican leader in the Senate, isn't he.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, he's got an issue, you know, with the approach

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Speaker 10: that Speaker Johnson's taking by taking these one by one.

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Speaker 10: But he's also got a problem with his own Senate

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Speaker 10: Republican caucus. Just recently, jd Vance, Mike Lee, Ted Cruz

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Speaker 10: from Texas, they all indicated a willingness to move forward

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Speaker 10: right away with an Israeli bill to fund that supplemental

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Speaker 10: request and to do it on an independent basis.

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Speaker 8: So, in addition to problems.

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Speaker 10: He's got in the House of Representatives moving forward on

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Speaker 10: a standalone basis with israel funding, he's got a sort

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Speaker 10: of back effort in the Senate that he has to

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Speaker 10: stall in order to just make sure his own caucus

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Speaker 10: is on his side.

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Speaker 3: Well, you do wonder how this is going to come together,

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Speaker 3: and if Ukrainian funding reaches the sixty billion or so

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Speaker 3: that the President is looking for, much of that's going

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Speaker 3: to be spent domestically. Alvin, and I wonder if you

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Speaker 3: see the messaging coming out of the White House as

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Speaker 3: being effective here when you hear not another dollar for

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Speaker 3: Ukraine from some on Capitol Hill, They're not thinking about

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Speaker 3: our own munitions here, our own stockpiles, and our own

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Speaker 3: work with American defense contractors. Do you agree?

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Speaker 14: I think the important part to remember here is, you know,

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Speaker 14: just taking a step back, are you know, kind of

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Speaker 14: new speaker has already shown the ability to unite what

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Speaker 14: seemingly seems to be a kind of divided group, And

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Speaker 14: so I think you have to kind of look at

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Speaker 14: the statements from the administration and from the President kind

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Speaker 14: of with that same lens as if it is very

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Speaker 14: clear where the administration and where the president president wants

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Speaker 14: this to go from a funding standpoint. But we really,

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Speaker 14: I think, have to do the work in prioritizing what exactly.

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Speaker 7: That means considering just.

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Speaker 14: The amount of not just funding that we've already sent

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Speaker 14: out out of the door, but just considering the turmoil

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Speaker 14: that the world is in and the amount of assistance

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Speaker 14: that will be needed. I think anything hasty that kind

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Speaker 14: of overlooks that true point is just, you know, not

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Speaker 14: in the in the best interest holistically, you know, at

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Speaker 14: this given time.

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Speaker 3: Well, when you take a look at some of the

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Speaker 3: other items facing the new Speaker as soon as this week,

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Speaker 3: it looks like an interesting party here, Rick. It also

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Speaker 3: includes not just an effort to fund the government with

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Speaker 3: a shutdown looming on November seventeenth, and we can talk

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Speaker 3: about that, of course, but three privileged resolutions, one to

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Speaker 3: expel George Santos, two others to censure members Marjorie Taylor

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Speaker 3: Green and Representative to Lee, who I realize is not

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Speaker 3: a Republican in this case. But the Speaker still has

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Speaker 3: to herd cats in this House of Representatives. Should all

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Speaker 3: of these come to the floor, and what happens when

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Speaker 3: they do?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, no, Look, I mean these are most of the

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Speaker 10: junk resolutions. They're not going to pass. They'll get scheduled

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Speaker 10: in due course by the Rules Committee. And they'll come

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Speaker 10: up in regular business. So I don't think those things

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Speaker 10: are going to sort of slow him down. And I

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Speaker 10: would be shocked if he took any of his time

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Speaker 10: and prestiges the brand new Speaker of the House to

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Speaker 10: even address them much publicly, right, I mean, they are

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Speaker 10: these are sort of leftovers, you know, from a period

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Speaker 10: of time that he's trying to avoid, which is sort

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Speaker 10: of the Balkanization of both parties fighting with each other

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Speaker 10: internally and then taking those fights out, you know, on

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Speaker 10: the floor of the on the floor of the House.

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Speaker 10: So he's got his work cut out for him to

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Speaker 10: be able to accomplish this. But every indication I've got

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Speaker 10: from his his allies on Capitol Hill is that he's

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Speaker 10: going to resist as much as he can these kinds

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Speaker 10: of public stunts and try to get some of the

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Speaker 10: business done, knowing that you know, as you say, Joe,

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Speaker 10: we've got to fund the government. We've got to fund Ukraine,

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Speaker 10: We've got a fund Israel, we've got to fund the

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Speaker 10: border problems.

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Speaker 8: There's a real need.

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Speaker 10: To act in the House to catch up to where

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Speaker 10: the Senate is on these appropriations bills. I mean, he's

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Speaker 10: got other things to worry about that actually have real

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Speaker 10: upside for the country.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's a Congressman from Ohio named Max Miller.

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Speaker 3: He wants to change the threshold on the motion to vacate.

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Speaker 3: This is, of course, how Kevin McCarthy got fired, and

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Speaker 3: it's still technically hanging over the speaker here to force

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Speaker 3: one hundred and twelve members in this case of the

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Speaker 3: majority or minority to sign onto the resolution to fire

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Speaker 3: a speaker of the House. Does that need to happen? Alvin?

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Speaker 3: Will it happen?

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Speaker 7: I hope it doesn't happen.

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Speaker 14: I think, just as we've seen just up until this point,

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Speaker 14: just how much this really just muddies the waters and

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Speaker 14: just gives a larger barrier, you know, to injury. As

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Speaker 14: far as allowing the speaker to do their job, I think,

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Speaker 14: you know, more than anything right now, you know, kind

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Speaker 14: of the collaboration and the work across the aisle just

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Speaker 14: really matters more than anything. And I think given any

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Speaker 14: kind of you know, credence or just look back to

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Speaker 14: to these types of things, I think just slows the process.

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Speaker 14: So you would like for you know, for us to

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Speaker 14: find ourselves in a place where this isn't something that

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Speaker 14: continues to kind of become that dark cloud over the speakership,

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Speaker 14: if you will.

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Speaker 3: I think he wants to make it more difficult though,

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Speaker 3: and actually raise the threshold. Is that something you'd support

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Speaker 3: to give the speaker a slightly easier ride here?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean in that way. Sure.

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Speaker 14: I just think that up until this point we really

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Speaker 14: need to I mean we're talking about you know, funding

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Speaker 14: and sending money out of the door and just you know,

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Speaker 14: finding ourselves in a place where we're working collaborative, collaboratively,

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Speaker 14: and so I just think that in this particular instance, sure,

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Speaker 14: you know, making it a hearder threshold is fine, but

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Speaker 14: we really need to kind of, you know, pass this

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Speaker 14: topic of discussion which seems to keep creeping back up

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Speaker 14: into discussion.

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Speaker 3: Well what do you do, then, Rick, do you raise

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Speaker 3: the threshold or get rid of it all together?

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Speaker 10: Well, you can't get rid of it all together, but

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Speaker 10: there are mechanisms to make it more difficult, if not

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Speaker 10: downright unfeasible, And and and again they probably ought to

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Speaker 10: do that. They should have done it the day Johnson

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Speaker 10: got elected. Every day that goes by, guys like Matt

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Speaker 10: Gaets get a little bit more oxygen.

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Speaker 8: I mean he's been chastised, right.

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Speaker 10: I mean, here's one guy who was more desperate to

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Speaker 10: get a speaker elected than anybody else because he was

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Speaker 10: to blame for three and a half weeks of complete,

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Speaker 10: you know, misfunctioned malfunction, lack of function of the House

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Speaker 10: of Representatives. I mean, that's a heck of a burden

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Speaker 10: to carry around with you for the balance your term.

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Speaker 8: So I suspect that.

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Speaker 10: There's nobody who's really keen to exercise a motion of

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Speaker 10: vacate right now, and so they ought to just clean

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Speaker 10: that up. But again, you know, I don't think there's

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Speaker 10: any there there right now. I think between now and

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Speaker 10: the end of the year, you know, they've got so

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Speaker 10: much business to do that there is a sense, as

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Speaker 10: Alvin said, of a new spree of corps to get

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Speaker 10: things done a little bit of by partisanship hopefully, And

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Speaker 10: I think it'll be mostly tested by this Ukraine resolution.

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Speaker 10: Will the Speaker put a Ukraine resolution on the floor

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Speaker 10: without a majority of the Republicans supporting it, because it'll

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Speaker 10: pass overwhelmingly with almost the entire Democratic caucus backing it.

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Speaker 10: But will we allow a bipartisan solution?

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Speaker 3: We will find out. Rick Davis, Alvin Jordan. Great panel,

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Speaker 3: they stayed with us. As we turn to the campaign

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Speaker 3: trail next, new numbers from IOWA and Selzer's latest just out,

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Speaker 3: and of course it's all about number two. We'll have

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00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 3: a lot more on that ahead.

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00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

443
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

444
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

445
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcast.

446
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 3: Prime Minister Benjamin Netan Yahoo just wrapped up a news

447
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 3: conference in Israel, generating a couple of headlines on the

448
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 3: terminal for starters and not a surprise. He says he

449
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 3: will not agree to any cease fire with Hamas and

450
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: getting to one of the issues we were speaking to earlier,

451
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 3: calls for his resignation after over the weekend apologizing for

452
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 3: blaming Israeli military and intelligence officials for the Hamas terror

453
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 3: attack and missing the cues that might have led to it.

454
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 3: Dismissing calls for his resignation as Prime minister officially, he

455
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 3: says he is working for Hamas to resign. I'm Joe

456
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 3: Matthew in Washington. Thanks for being with us on Bloomberg's

457
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 3: sound on the war with Hamas was a huge issue

458
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 3: over the weekend in Las Vegas, as the Republican candidate

459
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 3: spoke to the RJC, the Republican Jewish Coalition, Nicki Haley

460
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: among others speaking to the crowd. Donald Trump was there.

461
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 3: He said he would reinstate the Muslim ban if re elected.

462
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 3: Nicki Haley went after the former president for his remarks

463
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 3: recently about Benjamin Ettanya Who and Hamas.

464
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 9: While the polls are notable, principles matter a lot more.

465
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 15: As president, I will not compliment Hesbla.

466
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 9: Nor will I criticize Israel's prime minister in the middle

467
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 9: of a tragedy in.

468
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 3: War not exactly a standing ovation, but she wasn't booed

469
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: for it either. As we reassemble our panel, Rick Davis

470
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 3: and Alvin Jordan Rick, of course, Republican strategist, Alvin Democratic

471
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 3: analyst from Rock Solutions. This is a must stop, Rick,

472
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 3: obviously when you're speaking to the arch They each took

473
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 3: their own path here, and of course Mike Pence made

474
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 3: some news dropping out of the race, and that really

475
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 3: kind of became the headline for the campaign over the weekend.

476
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 3: I don't know, if you were expecting the former vice

477
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 3: president to be the next one to drop here. But

478
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 3: how important is that for this whole conversation that we're having.

479
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 3: Other than former President Trump and Nikki Haley, he was

480
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 3: the only one with direct foreign policy experience on that stage.

481
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think it's you know, it's important to note that,

482
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 10: You're right. I mean, he had incredible foreign policy chops.

483
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 10: You know, the four years he spent with President Trump,

484
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 10: he was all over the world developing these relationships, and

485
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 10: he just wasn't able to gain traction in Iowa, a

486
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 10: very key state, especially for midwesterner like himself. And I

487
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 10: thought it was actually very impressive that he took the

488
00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 10: RJC conference to announce that he was suspending his campaign,

489
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 10: because that would have been a group that I think,

490
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 10: you know, probably would have been more supportive of Vice

491
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 10: President Pence than most of the Republican crowds you have,

492
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 10: especially during a crisis like this, and especially due to

493
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 10: the fact that he was such a strong supporter of

494
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 10: Israel throughout his political career, but especially as vice president,

495
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 10: so all that lined up perfectly for him. I think

496
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 10: that it does put more focus onto Nikki Haley, one

497
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 10: of the very few other Republicans besides the President himself,

498
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 10: who have actionable foreign policy experience, and she's been willing

499
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 10: to make it a case for that on the campaign trail,

500
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 10: even before the war broke out in Israel. So she's

501
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 10: she got to that trough first. Obviously the president has

502
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 10: made President Trump has made many missteps along the way,

503
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 10: especially related to this current fight in for Gaza and

504
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 10: against Hamas, and so yeah, advantage Nicki Hayley consolidation is

505
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 10: important to her. Getting the spotlight on her commander in

506
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 10: chief credentials is important to her, and showing a true

507
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 10: contrast with the president, as she did in her speech

508
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 10: at DRJC, was I think a really good weekend for her.

509
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 3: Well, she certainly has a good showing in this and

510
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: Selzer poll. This is NBC news. Des Moines register shows

511
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: Donald Trump dominating the field. That's not news. He's leading

512
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 3: everyone by nearly thirty percent, but Nicky Haley rising into

513
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 3: second place to ty Ron de Santis at sixteen percent,

514
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 3: tied at second. Reminding you that in August, Nicky Haley

515
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 3: was at six percent in this poll, Ron DeSantis was

516
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 3: at nineteen percent, and so Alvin when this really starts

517
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 3: to be looking like a second place coalescing around Nicky Haley.

518
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 3: Is that not Joe Biden's great worry right now? He

519
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 3: wants to run a against Donald Trump. Does a Republican

520
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 3: nominee named former ambassador, former governor Nicki Haley keep him

521
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 3: up at night?

522
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 7: I think it absolutely has to keep him up at night.

523
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 14: I think any you know, formidable politician with as you mentioned,

524
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 14: kind of the chops to match and the resume to

525
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 14: match is exactly you know what the Democrats and Joe

526
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 14: Biden just don't want to see.

527
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 7: I know we've kind of, you know, joked.

528
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 14: In in our back and forth that this was, you know,

529
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 14: has been at least a race to second place. But

530
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 14: I think as you know, Nikki Haley's base grows and

531
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 14: she continues to outpace kind of what is that second

532
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 14: tier group? I think you definitely have to get a

533
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 14: little bit bit nervous if you're the Biden team, for sure.

534
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 3: What do you think of the results of this pull Rick,

535
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 3: the trajectory for Ronda Santis and the trajectory for Nicki

536
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 3: Haley or hard to.

537
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 8: Deny, Yeah, it is hard to deny.

538
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 10: I mean, Desanta's has been you know, sort of just

539
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 10: going nowhere. And we've been talking about the phenomena that

540
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 10: he has because he has to make a mark in Iowa.

541
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 10: He doesn't have another state to really campaign in. All

542
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 10: his one hundred million dollar super pack is getting spent

543
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 10: in Iowa and the fact that he's actually ticking down

544
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 10: in this survey is really bad news for him. In reverse,

545
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 10: Nikki Hayley, who's actually been making moves in New Hampshire

546
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 10: and actually we've seen in public polls increasing her capacity

547
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 10: and even outstripping DeSantis in New Hampshire, now can add

548
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 10: Iowa as a potential battleground because she almost doubled the

549
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 10: amount of support that she had since the last de

550
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 10: Wine registered poll and frankly, with very good underlying data

551
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 10: a little bit, I've been able to dig in on

552
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 10: this pole. I mean, she doubled her numbers with Independence,

553
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 10: while everybody else either went down or stayed the same.

554
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 8: So you know, Independence makeup.

555
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 10: Almost a quarter of all the caucus goers and it's

556
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 10: a it's a likely group that would really attach themselves

557
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 10: to her, and all the while, nobody else in the

558
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 10: field moving No, Chris Christy, no, Right, Vivic Ramaswami none,

559
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 10: of these other people have made any progress.

560
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 12: Now.

561
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 3: Of course, Mike Pence is out, so we'll see where

562
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 3: his couple of percentage points go in Iowa with Rick

563
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 3: Davis and Alvin Jordan. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.

564
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

565
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern.

566
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 11: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

567
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 12: The Bloomberg Business App.

568
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

569
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

570
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: Speaker Mike Johnson has got a long to do list,

571
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 3: but what can he get done? Welcome to hour two

572
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: of Sound On. As the new Speaker of the House

573
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 3: promises a standalone bill to fund Israel on the House

574
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 3: floor this week, even as the Senate moves in another

575
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 3: direction and a government shut down looms. Just what three

576
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 3: weeks away. We're joined by Jack Fitzpatrick, Bloomberg government appropriations

577
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 3: and Congress expert, and we'll have our weekly conversation with

578
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: Nick mulvaney, co founder of the Freedom Caucus, former acting

579
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 3: Chief of Staff in the Trump White House. Three up

580
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 3: and three down. You might have heard it. GM cuts

581
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 3: a tentative deal with the UAW that takes care of

582
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,959
Speaker 3: all three of the big three automakers. We'll be joined

583
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 3: by Arthur Wheaton, director of Labor Studies at Cornell, and

584
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 3: his expertise on the way forward.

585
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 12: Here.

586
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 3: Welcome to our two of Bloomberg Sound on Monday edition.

587
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 3: It doesn't feel like a Monday at all.

588
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 15: Kaylee, Oh, it very much does.

589
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 3: Kaylee lines is with us, of course. The thing is,

590
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 3: Kaylee has an excuse. Kaylee ran a marathon over the weekend.

591
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 3: I slept through the weekend and I feel like I

592
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 3: need another weekend though. Half marathon. Congratulations. You do this

593
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 3: like every weekend though, if you have a Saturday, Kaylee,

594
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 3: as a marathon. It's completely the way things work around here.

595
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 3: You know, you're just killing time for the appropriations to begin, exactly.

596
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 3: I understand how this works. Well. We did get a

597
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 3: speaker last week, and that was a big deal around here.

598
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 3: Now the speaker's got a menu here of things that

599
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 3: a lot of people are asking for, and it's unclear

600
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: exactly how all of this is going to work and

601
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: whether the government will stay open through November seventeenth, though

602
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 3: I know Jack is going to tell us that it

603
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 3: will happen right well?

604
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 16: He very well, mae should, we asked Jack, Well, we

605
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 16: certainly can't rotate some share there He is now Jack

606
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 16: Fitzpatrick Bloomberg Government from next door on K Street.

607
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: It's good to see you, sir, Thanks for coming in.

608
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 3: Not a big shocker to hear Mike Johnson say over

609
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 3: the weekend he wants to stand alone vote on Israel funding.

610
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 3: He said last week what buyfei or kate was the

611
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 3: word he used. Now speaking with Fox News, he does

612
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 3: it again. Just for good measure. Here's Mike Johnson when

613
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 3: asked about the big request for money for Israel, Ukraine,

614
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 3: Taiwan and the border.

615
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 13: Well, listen, we're going to move a standalone Israel funding

616
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 13: bill this week in the House. I know our colleagues

617
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 13: are Republican colleagues in the Senate have a similar measure.

618
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 13: We believe that that is a pressing and urgent need.

619
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 13: There are lots of things going on around the world

620
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 13: that we have to address, and we will, but right now,

621
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 13: what's happening in Israel takes the immediate attention.

622
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 3: So how is this going to work when the Senate

623
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 3: apparently wants to do it the way the President is asking.

624
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 3: Mitch McConnell is appearing in Louisville today with the Ukrainian

625
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: ambassador to the US to make the point, do we

626
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 3: already have a standoff?

627
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 17: This is a fight. I'm not sure it is the fight.

628
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 17: On one hand, yes, the President said, give me a

629
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 17: bunch of things all in one, and there are lawmakers

630
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 17: who think it makes sense to put Israel, Ukraine, US

631
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 17: Mexico border, Taiwan, and the Indo Pacific funding all together

632
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 17: in one big thing. House Republican leadership clearly does not agree.

633
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 17: But I remember just a week ago or so a

634
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 17: group of House Republicans who are pretty pro Ukraine. They

635
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 17: were led by Dan Crenshaw, sort of defense hawks, said

636
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 17: the real question is can we get a deal on

637
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 17: Ukraine with the border stuff.

638
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 3: That's the political trade off.

639
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 17: So that the neoliberal neoconservative people get what they want

640
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 17: in a Ukraine package, the more hardline conservatives get what

641
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 17: they want in a border measure. And I do not

642
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 17: think that separating Israel necessarily makes everything collapse. They can

643
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 17: do multiple bills, but there's still this opportunity to maybe

644
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 17: bring the two wings together if Ukraine and borders still

645
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 17: go together.

646
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 16: Okay, so you're talking about multiple bills here in terms

647
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 16: of supplemental funding, but there's also a number of bills

648
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 16: to contend with in terms of appropriations. I know they're

649
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 16: going to try to pass a couple more this week,

650
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 16: right What exactly is the sequencing here?

651
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 17: We don't know yet how much the House is actually

652
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 17: going to sincerely try to do.

653
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 3: There was a detailed.

654
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 17: Plan by Mike Johnson put Forth as he was running

655
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 17: for speaker that said, here's how we're going to pass

656
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 17: all our bills by November seventeenth. The House is not

657
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 17: actually coming back this week until Wednesday, and they are

658
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 17: going to vote, he said, on this Israel measure which

659
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 17: then leaves out Ukraine and the border by Thursday. They

660
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 17: are going to have to vote this week.

661
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: They have to.

662
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 17: Legally vote within two legislative days on the expulsion of

663
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 17: George Santos because of a measure that was filed that

664
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 17: requires a vote on that. So there's a plan to

665
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 17: vote on three more regular appropriations bills in the House.

666
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 17: There are a lot of distractions though, and that's also

667
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 17: the case in the Senate. They've got about ten amendments

668
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 17: left to go on the Senate on this three bill package,

669
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 17: so it's pretty slow going.

670
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 3: Before we bring in Mick mulvaney, I want to ask

671
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 3: you about the motion to vacate. There's a new effort

672
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 3: I guess, to increase the threshold on the motion. Does

673
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 3: that have support in the House after this whole saga

674
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 3: we just lived through.

675
00:38:55,719 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 17: That wasn't answered clearly during the speaker fight, and given

676
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 17: that Mike Johnson did not make his candidacy contingent on

677
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 17: people agreeing to change that, that seems more like a

678
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 17: conversation that has to happen rather than something that's going

679
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 17: to be forced in action sometime soon.

680
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 16: It was interesting in that interview he did with Sean

681
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 16: Hannity last week, though there was a moment in there

682
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 16: and it was Hannity was getting ready to ask another question,

683
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 16: but Mike Johnson was kind of like, I think we're

684
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 16: going to change it.

685
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 15: I think we're going to change it, and then that's

686
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 15: kind of going to do.

687
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 3: So we'll see Jack. Great to see you, Thanks as always.

688
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 3: Jack Fitzpatrick our colleague at Bloomberg Government, right next door

689
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 3: Congress reporter who specializes in appropriations, not unlike Mick mulvaney

690
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 3: who's with us now, each Mondy at this time, the

691
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 3: former OMB director. I'm just putting that first, because I

692
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 3: never do. The co founder of the Freedom Pop is

693
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: for the acting chief of Yeah, there's something else in

694
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: here I could put in front of it. It's good

695
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 3: to see you, Mick. As always, before we get into

696
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 3: the real work. Does this motion to vacate actually change?

697
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 3: There's an effort right now. I believe it's Max Miller

698
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 3: of Ohio who says this should this should require one

699
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 3: hundred and twelve members. Do you agree?

700
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 18: Well, that was the rule under Nancy Pelosi. I think

701
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 18: she'd changed it to the majority of the majority. Other

702
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 18: than that brief, I think it was two or four

703
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 18: year period. Every speaker in history had to deal with

704
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 18: the motion made by one person, and there's a lot

705
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 18: of weight of history there. Then the question is not

706
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 18: the number of people, it's the people you've got. So's

707
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 18: I'd be curious to Jack still listening. I don't remember.

708
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 18: I've been out of the House now about seven years.

709
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 18: I don't remember how to change the rules in the

710
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 18: middle of a Congress. I think the burden is higher

711
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 18: the boat burden is higher during a Congress to change

712
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 18: the rules than it is at the outset of every Congress.

713
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 18: Typically at the beginning of each congress, right after they

714
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 18: pick a speaker, what happens is they adopt the rules

715
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 18: package for that Congress for that two year congress, and

716
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 18: they usually don't change that during the two years, but

717
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 18: they can. I just think there's a higher burden, and

718
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 18: if there is, it's highly unlikely you're going to change this.

719
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 5: Look, everybody I've talked to said that while you know.

720
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 18: That they're watching Mike very closely, I'm sure the appropriates

721
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 18: are watching Mike very closely. Folks in the center of

722
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 18: the Republican Party watching him extraordinarily closely and will hold

723
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 18: him his feet to the fire. I'm making sure things

724
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 18: work in the folks I talk to Joe Gaily, I

725
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 18: don't get the impression there's a lot of appetite right

726
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 18: now for either changing the rules on the speaker or

727
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 18: more importantly, having another speaker vote. I think Mike Johnson

728
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 18: is going to be the speaker for the rest of

729
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 18: this Congress, and then this discussion will go over into

730
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 18: what happens after the next election.

731
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 16: Okay, mix, So if we operate under that assumption that

732
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 16: it will be Speaker Johnson at least until twenty twenty five,

733
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 16: how much power and influence does Speaker Johnson really have,

734
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 16: considering a lot of people didn't even really know who

735
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,359
Speaker 16: he was before he ultimately got the gabble. Is this

736
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,359
Speaker 16: really going to be Speaker Johnson in the front and

737
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 16: Steve Scalice is the man behind the curtain.

738
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 15: How do you think the power dynamics are going to

739
00:41:59,120 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 15: work here?

740
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 5: Well?

741
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 18: You know no, I mean that both Louisiana I assumainly

742
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 18: know each'all. Again, I don't know Mike Johnson very well.

743
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 18: He got there just as I was leaving. I know

744
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 18: Steve Scaleze very well. My guess is to answer your

745
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 18: question that Mike Johnson will have roughly the same amount

746
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 18: of authority that Kevin McCarthy had. It's an institutional sort

747
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 18: of authority. What does the speaker get to do? He

748
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 18: gets to pick which bills come to the floor. He

749
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 18: gets to a sort of as he's heavily involved in

750
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 18: the committee chairmanships, but those have already been set. So

751
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 18: the Speaker has some authority, but not a tremendous amount

752
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 18: of authority, especially when the margins are this tight, keep

753
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 18: in mind Nancy Pelosi did not have a lot of

754
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 18: authority when she was Speaker, and that sounds strange to

755
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 18: say it, so let me take two seconds to explain

756
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 18: why that is. She only had a margin of four

757
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 18: or five votes. And while she had more control over

758
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 18: her conference than Kevin McCarthy did or Mike Johnson will,

759
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 18: she still had to essentially bring stuff to the floor

760
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 18: that everybody could vote for. She couldn't pass anything that

761
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 18: was controversial within her party. She had a sort of

762
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 18: go wherever her majority point at her. And that's the

763
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 18: same sort of environment that Kevin was in. It will

764
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 18: be the same environment that my Johnson is in.

765
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 3: Cool a lot there, And I wonder your thoughts on

766
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 3: Ukraine funding, specifically with Mitch McConnell. I keep referring to this, Mick,

767
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 3: but I think it's fascinating he's spending time appearing with

768
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 3: Oksana Markoova today in Kentucky. Of course, Ukraine's ambassador to

769
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 3: the US, who is a known entity in our media

770
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 3: here and has been for the better part of two years.

771
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 3: This is not something that he's going to drop very easily.

772
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 3: Is the Speaker do you think already in touch with

773
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 3: the Senate Republican leader on.

774
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 18: This, Oh, sure, one hundred percent. I think Jack actually

775
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 18: in your previous segment hit the nail on the head.

776
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 18: Is that, Look, a lot of Republican members, a lot

777
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 18: of congressmen and women from both parties don't like these

778
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 18: monster deals right where you throw a bunch of crap

779
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 18: in a bill, and if I want to get the

780
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 18: one thing i'd like, I have to vote for nine

781
00:43:58,160 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 18: things that I don't like.

782
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 5: They don't like that.

783
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 18: It perverts the process. That's a bipartisan sort of objection.

784
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 18: So you hear the speakers say I want to split

785
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 18: off funding for Israel, My guess is there's going to

786
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 18: be a good level of support for that. That does

787
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 18: not necessarily kill Ukraine funding because, as Jack pointed out,

788
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 18: it still allows the folks in the Senate to talk

789
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 18: about marrying Ukraine funding with the border. So you could

790
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 18: have instead of one monster bill, you might have two.

791
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 18: You'd have one for Israel, which is a relatively small bill.

792
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,959
Speaker 18: Keep on the funding for Israel's about fourteen billion dollars

793
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 18: or roughly twelve percent of the overall bill. Have one

794
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 18: bill for Israel, and then another bill for Ukraine married

795
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 18: with a border. That's the type of thing that sounds

796
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 18: like it might have some life to it and allow

797
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 18: everybody to have their own vote, vote yes on one,

798
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 18: no on the other. But the House in the Senates

799
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 18: still get to work their will without forcing down a

800
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 18: monster omnibus bill down a lot of people's throats. So

801
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 18: I'm cautiously optimistic that sounds like it is the way

802
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:57,879
Speaker 18: that things should play out.

803
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 16: So it's going to come down to the math and

804
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 16: whether or not any of those individual things can get

805
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 16: the adequate number of votes. And while we're thinking about

806
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 16: numbers and counting Votesmick, knowing all that work needs to

807
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 16: be done, that there's so many bills that they're going

808
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 16: to need to pass, is there any real chance that

809
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 16: the Republicans kicked George Santos out of the House and

810
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:18,280
Speaker 16: narrow their margin even further.

811
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 5: Ooh, really good question.

812
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: You know.

813
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 18: I think Mike Johnson had said early on that that

814
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 18: wasn't going to be a priority, that other stuff to do.

815
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 16: I no longer the Expulsion resolution could come to the

816
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,919
Speaker 16: floor this week, And I just wonder how many people

817
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 16: are going to vote.

818
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 18: Yeah, the questions are they going to Kaylee, and I'm

819
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 18: asking you a question I don't know the answer to.

820
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 5: Is that a privileged motion? Do they have to vote

821
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 5: on it?

822
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 16: Yes, two legislative days is our understanding.

823
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 18: So it's sort of like the same as the motion

824
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 18: of vacate. It has to sit for forty eight for

825
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 18: two days to ripen, but then it can be brought

826
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 18: at any time. Keep in mind there's two different things there.

827
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 18: By the way, as soon as I say that out loud,

828
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 18: you know, people got the motion to vacate wrong. They

829
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 18: said that after it was interduce used it would have

830
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 18: to get him up in forty eight hours or two days.

831
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,399
Speaker 18: That's not true. It's after it was introduced. It could

832
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,839
Speaker 18: come up at any time after two days, as long

833
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 18: as someone then.

834
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 5: Brought the motion to the floor.

835
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 18: If the motion did to expel Santos falls into a

836
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 18: sort of a similar category. You could file the motion

837
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,760
Speaker 18: and then you can bring the motion force a vote

838
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 18: anytime after two days. But it doesn't mean the vote

839
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 18: automatically takes place after two days. So if you're a

840
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 18: Republican from New York and you want to sort of

841
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 18: beat your chest and say you want to get rid

842
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 18: of George Santos, you could file the motion but then

843
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 18: not bring it up for a vote. I don't know

844
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 18: that George Santos thing is really, really weird. I don't

845
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 18: know the guy, Thank goodness. My guess is he's probably

846
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 18: gone if it does come to a vote. And now

847
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 18: that the speaker thing is sort of put to bed,

848
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 18: maybe for the rest of this Congress, the Republicans be

849
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 18: more likely to get rid of him because they don't

850
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 18: care about that extra one vote. In terms of emotion

851
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 18: to vk.

852
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 3: Well, I was compelled by his answer when asked about

853
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,439
Speaker 3: this on Fox last week.

854
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,439
Speaker 18: The Speaker did lie for due process compelled You weren't

855
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 18: compelled by anything, said, are.

856
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 3: You kidding me? I don't know if yes, right not.

857
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 3: Due process was invoked, but not until after he talked

858
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 3: about the thin margin in the House.

859
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 12: MC.

860
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 3: Here's Speaker Johnson, here's the reality, Sean.

861
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 13: We have a four seat majority in the House. It

862
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 13: is possible that that number may be reduced even more

863
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 13: in the coming weeks and months, and so we'll have

864
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 13: what may be the most razor thin majority in the

865
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 13: history of the Congress. We have no margin for error,

866
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 13: and so George Santos is due due process, right, he is.

867
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 13: My understanding is I think he's appearing in a federal

868
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 13: court tomorrow and we have to allow due process to

869
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 13: play itself out. That's what our system of justice is for.

870
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 7: He's not convicted, he's charged.

871
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 13: He's charged. And so if we're going to expel people

872
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,839
Speaker 13: from Congress just because they're charged with a crime, then

873
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 13: you know, are accused, that's a that's a problem.

874
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 3: So Mick, we're just saying it out loud, right, this

875
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 3: is not about due process. It's about keeping every vote

876
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 3: you can.

877
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 5: Joe, and I owe your apology.

878
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 18: I thought you meant you were compelled by something that

879
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 18: George Santos had said.

880
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 5: I was taking you to task on that, and.

881
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 3: I'm compelled by everything George Santos says, that's not a question.

882
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 18: Look at this point, I don't know if there's as

883
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 18: much of a difference between a five vote margin and

884
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 18: a four vote margin. It's going to be tight regardless.

885
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 18: So you know, I think he's let The safe place

886
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 18: for him to go is to do process. I think

887
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 18: I respect that and to say, look, the House will

888
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 18: work its will. It is typical that you know if

889
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 18: you're if you're under indictment.

890
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 5: You're supposed to, you're supposed to.

891
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 18: I know you're supposed to get off your committees, and

892
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 18: I think George has already done that, or they kicked

893
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 18: him off of this committee. I don't know what the

894
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 18: precedent is on indictment on on I don't know if

895
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 18: there's anybody who's been expelled for an indictment. If not,

896
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 18: then George is probably safe for a while.

897
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 5: I think he pled not guilty late last week, right

898
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:55,919
Speaker 5: after that interviews taking place.

899
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty remarkable he did. It was actually just our

900
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 3: after I always wish we had more time with mcmulvaney.

901
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 3: It's great to see you make Let's do it in

902
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 3: a week. Just imagine what will happen between now and then.

903
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 3: Mick mulvaney here on Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew

904
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 3: with Kaylee Lines. This is Bloomberg.

905
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

906
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern.

907
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg

908
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcast.

909
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 3: So, our historic auto workers strike appears to be over.

910
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 3: This is just tentative now, but GM is the last

911
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 3: piece to fall in place following Ford in Stilantis. I'm

912
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 3: Joe Matthew along with Kaylee lines that news coming this morning.

913
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 3: GM cutting a deal means the whole thing is done, right,

914
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 3: This was all three of the Big three.

915
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean this is still tentative.

916
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 16: It'll have to be approved by the union, So we're

917
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 16: talking thousands of members that will have tens of thousands

918
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 16: of them that have to sign off on this. But

919
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 16: it does seem like this brings the beginning of the

920
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 16: end of a six week long strike. And what they

921
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 16: got is very similar to what they got out of

922
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 16: Ford and Stilantis. And when I say they, I mean

923
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 16: the uaw twenty five percent increase in wages, cost of

924
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 16: living allowances included in this, and it's Delantis's case, it

925
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 16: was also an issue of making job security concessions as well.

926
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,439
Speaker 3: Does Sean Fain get like a parade? Does he get

927
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 3: what are the members do for Sean Fain? Throw himself

928
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 3: a parade.

929
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 15: Gift him some more Camo shirts.

930
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 3: Right, it'll be all white Camo. He must be writing

931
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 3: a ripper right now for his next Facebook Live. I

932
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 3: don't know, maybe you know when that happens. This is

933
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 3: what he was sounding like last week when it was Ford.

934
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 3: Of course we were talking about.

935
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,399
Speaker 19: We took our strike to a new phase and hit

936
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 19: the companies with maximum effect. On Monday, we called on

937
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 19: our UAW family at Sterling Heights Assembly to stand up

938
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 19: that is stillanus's biggest and most profitable plant. On Tuesday,

939
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 19: our UAW family at Arlington Assembly answered the call and

940
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 19: they went out on strike, shutting down GM's biggest and

941
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 19: most profitable plant. Ford knew what was coming for them

942
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 19: on Wednesday if we didn't get a deal that was.

943
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 3: Checkmate, checkmate, maximum effects, he says. The strike delivered, and

944
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 3: so Sean Fain may have just set a massive precedent

945
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 3: for organized labor all over the country, which is another

946
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,240
Speaker 3: part of maybe the next part of this story.

947
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,439
Speaker 16: Yeah, because we're thinking about a four year contract here.

948
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 16: So there's the potential that all this song and dance

949
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 16: happens again in twenty twenty eight. And what's interesting is

950
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 16: the UAW has asked other unions to time their contracts

951
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 16: around the same May twenty twenty eight.

952
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 15: Everybody could be going on strike.

953
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 3: This is something and he could probably be the one

954
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 3: to pull it off right.

955
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 15: Maybe it's a movement, not a moment. We'll see.

956
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: That was good.

957
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 15: Oh, thank you.

958
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 3: I want to talk to the professor. Professor Wheaton, director

959
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 3: of Labor Studies at Cornell University School of Industrial and

960
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 3: Labor Relations. Loved our conversation in the throes of this.

961
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 3: Arthur Wheaton has helped to actually negotiate labor contracts before,

962
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,320
Speaker 3: and it's with us now that we have some news.

963
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 3: It's good to see professor. Thanks for joining us here

964
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 3: once again. On Bloomberg's sound on Sean Fain got more

965
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 3: than a lot of people thought he would get. How

966
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 3: would you grade his level of success here?

967
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 20: I think he should receive a grade of an A plus.

968
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 20: I think he far exceeded what I thought possible for

969
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 20: him to get. And it's important to remember that they

970
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 20: got quite a bit for the workers that were hired

971
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 20: before two thousand and eight, but they got massive increases

972
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 20: for the new hires, temporaries and what they refer to

973
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 20: as in progression workers, in some case up to one

974
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 20: hundred and sixty five percent increases in their wages.

975
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 16: Yeah, and it's not just about wages, as we know,

976
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 16: there's other benefits at play. Here, we're still trying to

977
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 16: figure out what exactly the details are in the case

978
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 16: of gm as retirement benefits where real sticking point we

979
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 16: understood in the conversation, so they must have ironed that

980
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 16: out in some way. But net looking at this, looking

981
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 16: at what the UAW has been able to pull off

982
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 16: here with these automakers, is this something that is Sean

983
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 16: Fain and an Auto workers union specific, or is this

984
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 16: something that other labor forces are going to be able

985
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 16: to replicate when they're dealing with companies going forward.

986
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 20: I think it's also building upon the success that the

987
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 20: Teamsters had with ups, and it's building upon this strong

988
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 20: labor market. We have to help in this case, but

989
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 20: Sean Fain deserves a tremendous amount of our respect and

990
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 20: support for what he was able to accomplish, not just

991
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 20: for the UAW, but for all workers, because people will

992
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 20: start paying higher wages to avoid unionize union drives at

993
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 20: their places. So this should help all folks in manufacturing,

994
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 20: especially in the auto sector.

995
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 3: Should we assume these are all around FID.

996
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 20: You never you can never assume anything. They thought they

997
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 20: had a deal at mactruck and that did not get ratified.

998
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 20: I'm optimistic this one will get ratified, but I'm making

999
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 20: no guarantees, but really big improvements, much higher than most

1000
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 20: analysts dream possible.

1001
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 16: When you talk about how this creates something that is

1002
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 16: much bigger than the UAW or a force that is

1003
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 16: greater than just the United Autoworkers, I also just wonder

1004
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 16: thinking about auto workers that aren't at these these big three,

1005
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 16: like those that are employed by say Tesla. Do you

1006
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 16: think we could see this force spread there?

1007
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 12: Oh?

1008
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:41,879
Speaker 7: Absolutely.

1009
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 20: Tesla has had a Elon musk Is like the saying

1010
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 20: he's paying as much as the UAW so that there's

1011
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 20: no incentive to join the UAW because they pay decent wages.

1012
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 20: But these improvements for all of the different categories and

1013
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 20: classifications for the UAW means that's no longer the case,

1014
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 20: so they will have an incentive to pay higher or

1015
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 20: face additional organizing drives. And according to Sean Fain, his

1016
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,479
Speaker 20: phones ringing off the hook for members trying to join

1017
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 20: with the UAW now that they've got big gains on

1018
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 20: the table. So if you get a big contract, it

1019
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 20: really helps in your organizing efforts.

1020
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 3: Well, you tend to believe him. What did he refer

1021
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 3: to the Big Three becoming the Big five or six

1022
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 3: that would have to include Tesla. I'm assuming Kayley, Professor,

1023
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 3: I want to ask you about the greater picture here.

1024
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 3: We still don't have an actors' union contract, and as

1025
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 3: we look around the country, we can find any number

1026
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 3: of others that appear coiled and set to spring, not

1027
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 3: the smallest of which is in Las Vegas. We've got

1028
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 3: the Culinary Union on the Las Vegas Strip, on the

1029
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 3: verge of what appears to be a massive labor action

1030
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 3: that would come on the eve of an F one race,

1031
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 3: the Super Bowl, the Consumer Electronics show, the type of

1032
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:03,879
Speaker 3: strike that a lot of people would see and would

1033
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 3: likely get a lot of media coverage. We know how

1034
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 3: important that group is for Democrats coming up in the

1035
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 3: Nevada caucuses will also be held at the beginning of

1036
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 3: next year. It could be a collision when it comes

1037
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 3: to timing. Does this deal that we're seeing here in

1038
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 3: the recent action by the UAW prompt more labor actions

1039
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,279
Speaker 3: like those it can?

1040
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 20: It shows success of collective bargaining works and taking collective

1041
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 20: action can make a difference. And why would it happen

1042
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 20: with the same sorts of events you're talking about because

1043
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 20: you strike when you have the most leverage and you

1044
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 20: want to make sure you can get the biggest gains.

1045
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 20: If there was nothing happening and you were during the

1046
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 20: heights of the pandemic and no one was going to Vegas,

1047
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 20: it wouldn't have as much impact. Now that you have

1048
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 20: Vegas starting to attract major events, that's when you have

1049
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 20: the most leverage at the table. That's when you want

1050
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 20: to try to get your piece of that economic action.

1051
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 20: So it only makes sense, and I think it's going

1052
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 20: to happen in other sectors as well. I hope they

1053
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:06,839
Speaker 20: get the SAG after ratified very quickly. And you're seeing

1054
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 20: President Biden already trying to make changes for artificial intelligence,

1055
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 20: and that's one of the issues actors are facing. So's

1056
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 20: it's not just one small piece of the puzzle, where

1057
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 20: a lot of people that are just workers and trying

1058
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 20: to get a little bit bigger piece of the pie.

1059
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 19: Yeah.

1060
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 16: I'm glad you brought up President Biden because what you

1061
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 16: just said about the UAW deal being a testament to

1062
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 16: the power of collective, collective bargaining and unions. That's essentially

1063
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 16: what the President said in the statement he put out

1064
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 16: after the news of the Stalantis UAW deal was announced.

1065
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 15: What grade would you.

1066
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 16: Give him in terms of his support of unions and

1067
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 16: his efforts here with the UAW. Knowing that he did

1068
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 16: go visit the picket line in Detroit.

1069
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 20: Being the first sitting president to ever walk a picket

1070
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 20: line and support of the union, I'd have to give

1071
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 20: him an A. I think that's at least an A

1072
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 20: for effort and trying to be there. I think you

1073
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,919
Speaker 20: if you try to give all of Congress a great

1074
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 20: that's a little harder to do. So you can only

1075
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 20: do so much as president, and I think he's got

1076
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 20: a good positive attitude towards union, along with about seventy

1077
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 20: percent of America has a positive attitude about unions.

1078
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 3: I thought it was an E for effort, Professor, I

1079
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 3: don't know how that goes that. That's very generous for

1080
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 3: Joe Biden. Does that mean that Donald Trump gets a

1081
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 3: different grade? He went out there to speak to union

1082
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 3: members as well.

1083
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,240
Speaker 20: I would have to give him a failing grade, because

1084
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 20: if you're going to go and support of union members,

1085
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 20: you might want to try going to a union facility.

1086
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 20: So he went to talk to non union people in

1087
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 20: a non union factory and trying to criticize the union

1088
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 20: that was on strike. So I think there, in terms

1089
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 20: of their efforts towards helping the workers, I would have

1090
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 20: to give Biden the edge on that going to the

1091
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 20: people actually involved in the same cities they're involved.

1092
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 3: All Right, we got maybe this will be a thing

1093
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,439
Speaker 3: on sound one didn't we never did the grading before.

1094
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 3: Thank you for playing along. Arthur Wheaton, director of Labor Studies,

1095
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 3: Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations. Don't assume, Kaylee.

1096
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 3: He says that these deals will be ratified.

1097
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 16: Yeah, I think we should probably be calling them tentative deals.

1098
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,439
Speaker 3: Fair enough, and you did. I think we both used

1099
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 3: that word. I think I'm going to give us both

1100
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,439
Speaker 3: credit for that, But boy, that would be a major

1101
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 3: blow for Sewn Fain. Yes, well done. That's an A

1102
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 3: I think an editor. That's an E for editorial.

1103
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 12: Nevermind.

1104
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

1105
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern.

1106
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 11: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in alf, Bloomberg dot Com,

1107
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 11: and the.

1108
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 12: Bloomberg Business App.

1109
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

1110
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

1111
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 3: As the Biden administration brings artificial intelligence back into the

1112
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 3: conversation today, this is not the first time, Kaylee lines,

1113
00:59:55,760 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 3: it will not be the last, as Capitol Hills seek

1114
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 3: some sort of legislative solution that won't be coming anytime soon.

1115
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 3: We can't even fund the government. The administration should get

1116
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 3: some credit for keeping the drum beat on this. The

1117
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 3: President today signing another executive order, is going to be

1118
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 3: talking about this momentarily here too. I hate to say

1119
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 3: this again, to put guardrails around this emerging technology?

1120
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 12: How did I do?

1121
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 3: Would that go in the news release?

1122
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 15: Yeah, that pretty much sums it up because.

1123
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean anything to us, and we don't always

1124
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:28,959
Speaker 3: know what we're talking about when it comes to AI,

1125
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 3: right to begin with.

1126
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 16: And a lot of these executive orders are multi prompt

1127
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:36,120
Speaker 16: and he's directing different departments and agencies to do different things,

1128
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 16: but broadly sweeping, it's just let's try to do something

1129
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 16: about AI, yes, right, and then it gets a little

1130
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 16: bit more specific. But to be honest, show a lot

1131
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:45,400
Speaker 16: of this still feels.

1132
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 3: Quite a MorphOS sure, and it begins with the matter

1133
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 3: of privacy here and of course getting corporate partners to

1134
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 3: sign on. You were up on Capitol Hill when Elon

1135
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 3: Musk and everyone else came up there to brief lawmakers.

1136
01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 3: That was the all Senators briefing. Nothing followed that though, right,

1137
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 3: that was a conversation and a photo op.

1138
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 16: And yeah, Chuck Schumer had said, this is going to

1139
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 16: be the first of many. And really it was about education.

1140
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 16: It wasn't about actually trying to set policy. It was

1141
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 16: just trying to get members of Congress to wrap their

1142
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 16: head around this technology and hear from people so that

1143
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 16: they can proceed on a path forward. And yeah, I

1144
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 16: haven't heard much about what that path forward, at least

1145
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 16: legislatively is too well.

1146
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 3: Bloomberg government was the first to get their hands on

1147
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 3: the Order on the EO. Here we go again, new

1148
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 3: standards on security and privacy protections for AI, with far

1149
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 3: reaching impacts on companies developers such as Microsoft, Amazon, Alphabet.

1150
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 3: Of course, these are the main AI concerns out there.

1151
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 3: Google's parent will be directed to put these models through

1152
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 3: safety tests and submit results to the government before their

1153
01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 3: public release. So if you're teaching one of these models something,

1154
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 3: apparently you have to tell the government first. I don't

1155
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 3: know how that's going to work or exactly what they

1156
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 3: agree to, but I don't think any of this is

1157
01:01:58,400 --> 01:01:59,120
Speaker 3: binding either.

1158
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 16: Well that's very good point of whether these are just

1159
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 16: you know, agreements in principle. Yeah, and then we'll see

1160
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 16: about actual enforcement. Something else is asking the Commerce Department

1161
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:12,680
Speaker 16: to help develop measures to counter public confusion about authentic content.

1162
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,280
Speaker 16: This is when we start thinking about deep fakes and misinformation.

1163
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 3: So yeah, well, this afternoon at the White House change anything.

1164
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:20,959
Speaker 3: I don't know, but we wanted to talk to Kaitlyn

1165
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 3: Lagaki about it. Four Corners public affairs partner and spent

1166
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 3: time as an advisor to the Commerce Secretary in this administration. Caitlyn,

1167
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 3: it's great to see you. I know, this is something

1168
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 3: that you were actually briefing the Commerce Secretary on. And

1169
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 3: the Biden administration is trying to keep up with the

1170
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 3: flow here and it feels like Washington is already behind.

1171
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 3: How important is this executive order today?

1172
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, Kaylee mentioned earlier that a lot of

1173
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 9: this still feels a little bit soft. I was actually

1174
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 9: surprised at how far this executive order went. We're obviously

1175
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 9: still in the early ages, but this was or early stages,

1176
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 9: but this was much more robust than I was expecting.

1177
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 9: I think they cover a breadth of topics, whether it's healthcare, education,

1178
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 9: national and economic security that a lot of folks are

1179
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 9: concerned about. And so, like you said, this is a

1180
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 9: very important first step. But I think the most important

1181
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 9: thing is that at least the Biden administration and to

1182
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 9: an extent, Capitol Hill have learned the lessons of you know,

1183
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 9: the social media debate on Capitol Hill, and they want

1184
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 9: to place some sort of guardrails on this before the

1185
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 9: horse gets too far out of the barn, because you know,

1186
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 9: once these technologies take hold, it's so hard to reel

1187
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 9: them back in. And so I think this executive order

1188
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 9: is a really important first step to kind of one

1189
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 9: tell companies what the administration is concerned about, what they're

1190
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 9: looking at. But it also sent a message with its

1191
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 9: utilization of the Defense Production Act that they want companies

1192
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 9: and businesses at the time table shaping solutions. But this

1193
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 9: administration is not afraid to go even further without them.

1194
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 16: Okay, well, you say it kind of gives companies a

1195
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 16: better idea of what their concerns are and gives companies

1196
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 16: some directives as to what they should be practicing. But

1197
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 16: how hard is it to actually make what has been

1198
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 16: outlined in this executive order a reality, for it to

1199
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 16: have real effect be enforced.

1200
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 9: That's a great question. I mean the interagency coordination that

1201
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 9: this document is going to require as a job in

1202
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 9: and of itself, I saw at least five different Cabinet

1203
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 9: agencies names. You're obviously going to have additional equities within

1204
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 9: the White House Department of Defense, so that I think

1205
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 9: that is, frankly one of the biggest challenges. The good

1206
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 9: news is that as the Biden administration has been approaching

1207
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 9: this question of AI, they've had all of those folks

1208
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 9: at the table from the beginning. But you're totally right

1209
01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 9: that there are questions about enforcement. There are questions about

1210
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 9: how is this going to match up with legislation should

1211
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 9: it ever get through the Congress. But I think one

1212
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 9: of the most important things that is in this document

1213
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 9: that is going a little bit under the radar is

1214
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 9: how the government is going to use its procurement capacities

1215
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 9: to help shape some of this technology. The government is

1216
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 9: going to be spending billions and billions of dollars on

1217
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 9: AI technology, both for national security but also for how

1218
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 9: we do business within the government. Enforcing companies to comply

1219
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 9: with this set of guidelines in order to get federal

1220
01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:39,120
Speaker 9: contracts is going to be an important tool to enforce

1221
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 9: compliance with these goals.

1222
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 3: That's pretty big leverage, is that? Why, then, Caitlin, all

1223
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 3: fifteen companies signing onto these commitments are actually with the

1224
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 3: president today to try to make a united front here.

1225
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 3: These are the same companies who are asking in some

1226
01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 3: cases to be regulated.

1227
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 9: A little yeah that, I think everyone recognizes the importance

1228
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:09,320
Speaker 9: of having a shared set of goals and values and

1229
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:13,919
Speaker 9: guidelines for how we implement this technology. But you're right

1230
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 9: when you look at the companies that aren't with the president,

1231
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 9: it's a lot of the biggest players in the space.

1232
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 3: They have a lot.

1233
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,440
Speaker 9: At stake in terms of getting this right and protecting

1234
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 9: their corporate brand reputations. But I also do think that

1235
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 9: companies don't necessarily want to be on the hook for

1236
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 9: managing this on a case by case basis. The way

1237
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 9: that many social media companies are when it comes to

1238
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 9: disinformation on their platforms. They recognize the value and having

1239
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:42,919
Speaker 9: everyone playing from the same set of rules.

1240
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 16: Finally, Kaitlyn, we only have about a minute left, But

1241
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 16: we were just having a whole conversation on labor in

1242
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 16: the power of unions and artificial intelligence's role in that

1243
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 16: was raised in that discussion. How much is this executive

1244
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 16: order going to have an impact on job security for

1245
01:06:58,440 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 16: American people.

1246
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:02,479
Speaker 9: I don't know that it does yet. I think where

1247
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:04,840
Speaker 9: you'll see a lot of it is in terms of

1248
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 9: figuring out where within the government you can automate tasks

1249
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:14,919
Speaker 9: using that as a pilot. But this administration is very

1250
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 9: focused on making sure that we're balancing those equities and

1251
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 9: that we're not pushing people out of jobs, or if

1252
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 9: there are jobs that are being phased out because of

1253
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,919
Speaker 9: technological advancements, how do we account for that. I don't

1254
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 9: see this going away as a major labor issue anytime soon.

1255
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 9: I also see it emerging as a huge issue in

1256
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 9: education and healthcare, and we've been very focused, I think,

1257
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 9: on the consumer applications for this, and.

1258
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 3: It depends up where we had more time with you,

1259
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:46,840
Speaker 3: Kaitlin Legaki from Four Corners This is cut. Thanks for

1260
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 3: listening to the sound on podcast. Make sure to subscribe

1261
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 3: if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else

1262
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 3: you get your podcasts. And you can find us live

1263
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 3: every weekday from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern Time

1264
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 3: at Bloomberg dot com.