Speaker 1: Welcome to the Psychology Podcast, where we give you insights
Speaker 1: into the mind, brained behavior and creativity. I'm doctor Scott
Speaker 1: Barry Kaufman, and in each episode I have a conversation
Speaker 1: with a guest who will stimulate your mind and give
Speaker 1: you a greater understanding of yourself, others, and the world
Speaker 1: to live in. Hopefully we'll also provide a glimpse into
Speaker 1: human possibility. Thanks for listening and enjoy the podcast today.
Speaker 1: I'm really glad to have Katie Morton on the podcast.
Speaker 1: Morden is a licensed marriage and family therapist practicing in
Speaker 1: Santa Monica, California. Morden is an entrepreneur and YouTube creator
Speaker 1: who has built a global mental health online community and
Speaker 1: as author of the book Are You Okay? A Guide
Speaker 1: to Caring for Your Mental Health. Thanks for chalgling with
Speaker 1: me today, Katie, Yeah, thanks for having me on. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: it's my pleasure. I really enjoy your YouTube channel, and
Speaker 1: I learned a lot the other about DBT dialectical behavioral
Speaker 1: therapy from your video about it. Yeah, I've been trying
Speaker 1: to think about what's the difference between that and like
Speaker 1: ACT therapy, you know, which they they are so similar
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways they are. Isn't act created
Speaker 1: more for anxiety though? If my memory serves yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so like these things like we're created for serving primarily
Speaker 1: different purposes. But when you look at the details, it's like, wow,
Speaker 1: everyone's about mindfulness. It's like that's the first step of
Speaker 1: everything these days. Well, totally, the more aware we are
Speaker 1: how we feel, the sooner we can like nip it
Speaker 1: in the bud, so to speak. Yeah, but you're not
Speaker 1: going to see like a new form of therapy pop up.
Speaker 1: It's like our first step is non mindfulness. Like I
Speaker 1: just feel like it's like unverifiable because no one's going
Speaker 1: to do the control condition totally. Yea, but everything you feel,
Speaker 1: that's how we start. Just go automatic, you know, just
Speaker 1: don't be mindful of it, you know, just like being
Speaker 1: like be impulsive, go ahead, go ahead, you know you
Speaker 1: want to anyway, it would be like the anti therapy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And DBT was primarily for borderline disorder, right correct. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was created by Marshall innihand she herself has a
Speaker 1: BPD borderline personality disorder, and DBT is kind of a
Speaker 1: build on CBT. If anybody like cognitive behavioral therapy so
Speaker 1: it's like got the addition of you know, mindfulness and
Speaker 1: some emotion regulation stuff like that. Yeah, but then they
Speaker 1: have you know, what's cropped up recently is mindful CBT
Speaker 1: as a sub So I'm trying to think what's the
Speaker 1: difference between that, and it just gets all confusing because
Speaker 1: like every you get to the point where you start
Speaker 1: to think, like people just like come up with stuff
Speaker 1: for their ego, like to create a brand like me
Speaker 1: and you should we should create like something like we
Speaker 1: should we want to coin, well, we need the word
Speaker 1: mindful in it, and if we want to sell books totally,
Speaker 1: so like mindful you know, we're going to like make
Speaker 1: you feel awesome therapy. Yeah, it's mindful compassion based therapy exactly.
Speaker 1: All the buzzards in there. It's like too many, there's
Speaker 1: too many types. I think it's really confusing for the
Speaker 1: end user then, which I don't really like. But I
Speaker 1: think it's an ego thing personally. Yeah, So okay, well,
Speaker 1: maybe let's get a little serious then a little more
Speaker 1: serious but feel free. Let's you know, we want to
Speaker 1: be that as serious throughout this whole thing. But what's
Speaker 1: the difference between mental health and mental illness. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I talk about that in the first chapter of my
Speaker 1: book because I think people I'm glad you read it.
Speaker 1: I think people confuse the two and use them interchangeably,
Speaker 1: but they're very different. It'd be akin to having a
Speaker 1: physical health or a physical illness, like we all have
Speaker 1: a mental health that needs to be tended to. Like
Speaker 1: I'm going to need to take breaks in my day
Speaker 1: or in my work week so that I can keep
Speaker 1: doing what I do. I need to check in with myself,
Speaker 1: be mindful, to use the word everybody loves, and so
Speaker 1: that's just kind of a basic upkeep, just like I
Speaker 1: try to eat somewhat healthfully, exercise regularly, and drink a
Speaker 1: lot of water to take care of my physical health.
Speaker 1: I think people forget that your mental health needs tending to,
Speaker 1: and we all have it. And then mental illness, on
Speaker 1: the other hand, is when our mental health has derailed
Speaker 1: and we're not doing well so much so that it
Speaker 1: impairs our ability to function. Meaning if I have to
Speaker 1: go to work or school or engage in social activities,
Speaker 1: those things become extremely difficult, if not impossible, for me
Speaker 1: because of whatever's going on in my head. I just
Speaker 1: can't do it. So yeah, so that's in a nutshell
Speaker 1: with the differences. So your argument that it's important to
Speaker 1: distinguish with them, does that really to the one of
Speaker 1: the main principles of the field of positive psychology, that like,
Speaker 1: the absence of mental illness is not necessarily the presence
Speaker 1: of thriving or you know, being above zero mental health. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit of that. And then
Speaker 1: I also think it's important that we use the right
Speaker 1: words because I don't want the more we actually talk
Speaker 1: about things openly and honestly, I feel like the less
Speaker 1: stigma can exist because I think people use the term
Speaker 1: mental health because it's thin, can in some ways feel
Speaker 1: less loaded, like it's not as bad, Like, oh, my
Speaker 1: cousin just struggles with mental health issues, but really he
Speaker 1: has schizophrenia and that's a mental illness, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like I do, But why should that be
Speaker 1: any worse? And it's just another term, And I think
Speaker 1: we should use the proper term and not be afraid
Speaker 1: to talk about it, not be afraid to Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's a big part of your work is reducing the
Speaker 1: stigma around mental illness. You know, I read in an
Speaker 1: article a couple of days ago. That has stuck in
Speaker 1: my mind, showing that mental illness is a deal breaker
Speaker 1: for greater than fifty percent of people in relationships, you know,
Speaker 1: especially like the early stage of dating. You know, if
Speaker 1: you find out that the person you're dating or has
Speaker 1: a diagnosable mental illness, that is literally a deal breaker
Speaker 1: for the relationship. I know, I know. And that whole
Speaker 1: article was framed around the I'll send it to you
Speaker 1: after this chat was around this about the stigma and
Speaker 1: what can we do about that? So you know, the
Speaker 1: stigma plays out not just in conscious ways, I guess,
Speaker 1: is the point I want to raise. But you know,
Speaker 1: we have lots of subconscious sort of maybe some of
Speaker 1: like inborn build and biases you know, through evolutionally that
Speaker 1: caused us to have these reactions. But doesn't mean we
Speaker 1: as human beings can't transcend those instincts. Yeah. And I think,
Speaker 1: like a lot of times, going like back to our
Speaker 1: original thing about mindfulness, I think we had to be
Speaker 1: mindful of what our stigmas are because we all have them.
Speaker 1: We all have our own perceptions and the biases, like
Speaker 1: you said, and I think that oftentimes we don't pay
Speaker 1: enough attention and recognize that we have them, and so
Speaker 1: they go unchecked and then we take them as fact.
Speaker 1: Like let's say in relationships, I found out the person
Speaker 1: I was dating had bipolar disorder. If I understood what
Speaker 1: that meant, and they were medicated and it was managed
Speaker 1: and they had like a treatment team, that wouldn't hurt anything,
Speaker 1: that wouldn't hinder our relationship or the ability for it
Speaker 1: to thrive. I think it's just people don't understand, and
Speaker 1: they get scared about what they don't know and then
Speaker 1: act accordingly, and then then that makes the stigma worse,
Speaker 1: and then that makes it really hard for people with
Speaker 1: mental illness to want to tell people. Like I've had
Speaker 1: patients who've been in a relationship for like a year,
Speaker 1: and they're like, so when do I tell them? I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, I understand why they were scared to because
Speaker 1: like the article you read, yeah, yeah, you know, if
Speaker 1: they really care about somebody and that person cares about
Speaker 1: them and doesn't know about it, what does that mean?
Speaker 1: You know? Does that mean? I think that shows us
Speaker 1: that the stigma exists, and it's not fair, it's not right.
Speaker 1: We have to understand what it really means. We have
Speaker 1: to seek to learn about it. Yeah, I agree. So
Speaker 1: what are some of the core issues that you discussed.
Speaker 1: Let's look what your YouTube channel for a second, you know,
Speaker 1: before we get into your book. What are some of
Speaker 1: the core issues that you discussed in that channel, Like,
Speaker 1: were some of your most popular videos? What were they about?
Speaker 1: What resonates with people? It's funny, it's not at all
Speaker 1: what I thought it would be. It's always the way,
Speaker 1: and anything to do with trauma usually does really well
Speaker 1: and resonates with people. And it's got me thinking more
Speaker 1: and more about trauma in the world, like how traumatized
Speaker 1: we all are, and I think that people just don't
Speaker 1: know to what word to put to it or if
Speaker 1: happened when we're younger. As we're older, we look back
Speaker 1: and we're like, oh, it wasn't that bad, and you know,
Speaker 1: kind of invalidate our own experience and our own expression
Speaker 1: of it. So I think that's why the trauma videos
Speaker 1: really resonate because a lot of us have had a
Speaker 1: trauma in our life. What counts is the trauma anything
Speaker 1: that makes you fear for your life or the life
Speaker 1: of someone else. Do it. But that sounds like okay,
Speaker 1: that's I think we'd all agree on that. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: I mean if you say it that way, you're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: But think about as a child, like if a parent
Speaker 1: yelled at you, like really because they were scared and
Speaker 1: they were upset and they were worried. As a child,
Speaker 1: you could be terrified and think they might kill you
Speaker 1: or hurt you. And even though maybe our parent was
Speaker 1: never physically abused and never did anything else, that time,
Speaker 1: that thing still happened and we were still traumatized. So
Speaker 1: I always tell people, remember you, like five year old
Speaker 1: you when that happened, that would be scary. You didn't
Speaker 1: have the understanding or the wisdom that you do now.
Speaker 1: So anyways, in short, trauma videos do really well. Also,
Speaker 1: anything to do with borderline personality does really well, I
Speaker 1: think because those people can feel people who struggle with
Speaker 1: VPD can feel very marginalized and very stigmatized. And because
Speaker 1: it's one of my specialties, like I can talk about
Speaker 1: it in a real way and in a more hopefully
Speaker 1: loving and understanding way. This is one of your specialties
Speaker 1: dealing with borderline personality disorder. I do DBT. That's why
Speaker 1: that's one of the therapies I practiced. So and that's
Speaker 1: what it's made for. Do you have personal experience with
Speaker 1: that mental illness? No, I actually don't, but it's because
Speaker 1: I trained did a lot of my training and the
Speaker 1: Eating Disorder Treatment Center, and there's a lot of comorbidity
Speaker 1: or happening at the same time, like VPD with an
Speaker 1: eating disorder, and so that's kind of where that came
Speaker 1: out of. And that's when I actually got certified as
Speaker 1: a dialectical behavior therapist and you know, have kept up
Speaker 1: with it ever since. So those do really well. And
Speaker 1: then the final one or like anything with numbers like
Speaker 1: people love, like the six signs of depression or the
Speaker 1: five ways to beat anxiety. That, yeah, those are kind
Speaker 1: of the top four types that do well. What are
Speaker 1: the five ways of eating anxiety? Like pulling out my
Speaker 1: pulling out my notepad? Do you have to watch my video?
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know. I like that answer.
Speaker 1: That's yeah. So what is the difference between a psychologist,
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist a therapist? You know, if you google in
Speaker 1: New York, you know, I like top therapists. You actually
Speaker 1: don't just get top therapists. You get things ranging from
Speaker 1: people who got a bachelor's degree in psychology to like
Speaker 1: those who can call themselves life coaches, and then the psychiatrists.
Speaker 1: How do you sort all these things out? What's the
Speaker 1: difference between all these things? It's I mean, overall, when
Speaker 1: you're looking for someone, you want someone who I would
Speaker 1: prefer someone who's licensed because then they're held accountable. So
Speaker 1: if something does derail and you are harmed by them,
Speaker 1: at least you can file a complaint. And they are
Speaker 1: governed by a board like I. You know, you and
Speaker 1: I were licensed through our own states and our own
Speaker 1: whatever our degrees are, right, so I'm an LMFT whatever
Speaker 1: we practice licensed that way, and so that ensures not
Speaker 1: only that we have an education, but that we know
Speaker 1: what we're doing and we've taken you know, our exams
Speaker 1: and we've passed them, and that kind of gives you,
Speaker 1: like some security in the treatment because we've done that
Speaker 1: much work. And so that is like an LCSW, an LMFT,
Speaker 1: a psychologist. All of those will offer basic therapy or
Speaker 1: an LPCC in the state of California that have licensed
Speaker 1: professional clinical counselors, which is different from someone just calling
Speaker 1: themselves a counselor a counselor can just have gotten their
Speaker 1: bachelor's in psychology, which in my opinion, ask someone who
Speaker 1: has their bachelors in psychology. That doesn't really mean much
Speaker 1: and that doesn't really prepare you to offer therapy. And
Speaker 1: so also I talk about how it's important you can ask,
Speaker 1: but you can always ask someone what their degree is, like,
Speaker 1: what they're for their resume, and that's part of what
Speaker 1: your ability is. So there's I mean, in the book,
Speaker 1: I get into a lot more detail about like schooling
Speaker 1: and clinical hours and training, but that's why I really
Speaker 1: think at the bare bones, you just want someone who's licensed,
Speaker 1: because that means that they've gone through graduate school in
Speaker 1: some form and pass the licensing exam, and then you
Speaker 1: just want to feel like you like them. That's really all.
Speaker 1: If you're finding someone, it doesn't honestly matter if it's
Speaker 1: a psychologist or a social worker, they can often do
Speaker 1: very similar things. It really matters more that you feel
Speaker 1: connected to them, you feel like they're on your team
Speaker 1: and they're listening to you, because that's what really makes
Speaker 1: therapy so powerful. So do you have any other sussestions
Speaker 1: for how to find the right therapist for you? I
Speaker 1: really like though, just simple like do you like this person?
Speaker 1: Where are other criteria you should think about and being
Speaker 1: thinking whether or not they're a good match for you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can think if you have any certain specificities, like
Speaker 1: it is trauma, Do I think that that should be
Speaker 1: the focus of my treatment? I know not everyone's going
Speaker 1: to have those answers, but just thinking about it, like
Speaker 1: do I think that's a big issue? Like if I
Speaker 1: had an eating disorder, seeing an eating disorder specialist would
Speaker 1: be the best because they're going to understand and so
Speaker 1: specialties can be really helpful and important. Also, just how
Speaker 1: easy is it for you to get to their office?
Speaker 1: Which I know sounds silly, but I mean you're in
Speaker 1: New York, it can be a nightmare accessibility from a
Speaker 1: like a bus stop or a train stop. Like just
Speaker 1: making sure it's easy for you so that you don't
Speaker 1: arrive to therapy more stressed out than when you started,
Speaker 1: Like that's not the goal. And then also cost, like
Speaker 1: being okay with paying that and knowing it's part of
Speaker 1: your budget because that shouldn't be an extra stress. Overall,
Speaker 1: I feel like therapy shouldn't add more stress to your life.
Speaker 1: It should start helping you take it away. Yes, therapy
Speaker 1: is hard work, but just the logistics of it shouldn't
Speaker 1: be too terrible. So those are some things. Making sure
Speaker 1: they remember the things you told them. You feel comfortable
Speaker 1: with them, You like the feeling of their office, even
Speaker 1: like preference of gender, Like I prefer a female therapist.
Speaker 1: Not everybody does. But just consider if you want someone older, younger.
Speaker 1: In the book I talk about this isn't a place
Speaker 1: for like being you know, totally pc about things. Just
Speaker 1: figure out what you want and look for that because
Speaker 1: we want you to be comfortable. It could be someone
Speaker 1: with the same religious beliefs as you or similar experience
Speaker 1: in life. Just making sure that you know whatever you're
Speaker 1: looking for. Try to find the best fit that way,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. It's a lot, yeah, regardless of fit. Like,
Speaker 1: what are some signs of just a really terrible therapist?
Speaker 1: Like in general, oh, if they like read science, you
Speaker 1: know you talk about themselves because that's not our time,
Speaker 1: that's your time. What that really is as a therapist,
Speaker 1: I'm like, Wow, they need to get into therapy themselves,
Speaker 1: that's what that means. But so you shouldn't talk about
Speaker 1: yourself you as a therapist. They should remember what you say,
Speaker 1: Like they have notes. We take notes, right, I still
Speaker 1: do pen and paper. I know I'm old school, but
Speaker 1: if they have a computer, they should be typing in
Speaker 1: like your spouse or partner's name, or that best friend
Speaker 1: that you live with, or your mom's name, so that
Speaker 1: they can recall that we're not perfect. We will mess up,
Speaker 1: but like they should be trying to And so if
Speaker 1: you are always having to repeat, if they call you
Speaker 1: by the wrong name, any kind of confusion like that,
Speaker 1: I'm always like once okay, but if it keeps happening,
Speaker 1: that's just not right. I even had viewers tell me
Speaker 1: their therapist is falling asleep on them. No, that's bad.
Speaker 1: What if the person was really boring though fair enough?
Speaker 1: Can you imagine what that would make you feel, like
Speaker 1: a patience, Especially what if you went to therapy because
Speaker 1: people keep falling asleep on you and you're like, I
Speaker 1: really need help doc, like everyone keeps like thinking I'm boring,
Speaker 1: like and then like, before you know, the doctor falls asleep,
Speaker 1: not reinforced, making it worse exactly. Yeah, okay, so those
Speaker 1: are just some of the basics of it. Okay, cool,
Speaker 1: So if you're a really anxious person, like, don't go
Speaker 1: as someone who like makes you even more anxious on
Speaker 1: a regular basis. Yeah, totally. Yeah, Okay, cool. So we've
Speaker 1: already covered a lot of ground for people who are like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like everyone should have a therapist.
Speaker 1: Why not? I think if they could afford it, you know, like,
Speaker 1: it'd be nice to have free health care for therapy.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be nice? In America? It would be nice? Well, well,
Speaker 1: and our system is just so it's just so messed
Speaker 1: up when it comes to that, like having to make calls.
Speaker 1: As any clinician knows, when you make calls to get coverage,
Speaker 1: it can be like the worst thing ever and it's
Speaker 1: so annoying. But I do have to say that even
Speaker 1: my viewers who do have free health like mental health coverage,
Speaker 1: they'll have to wait for like a year and a half.
Speaker 1: And that's not okay either. So there's got to be
Speaker 1: a better way. Yeah, there's got to be. So you
Speaker 1: focus on marriage and family therapy. So do you see
Speaker 1: a lot of couples in your work? I actually don't.
Speaker 1: That's kind of the one of the like misconceptions of
Speaker 1: an LMFT. It really an LMFT. No, you're fine, it's
Speaker 1: totally fineotypes of that, And I can see couples. That
Speaker 1: is part of what I do, but the focus of
Speaker 1: an LMFT is on relationships. That's why it says marriage
Speaker 1: and family therapists, So it is correct. But I personally
Speaker 1: don't see a lot of couples or families. Mainly it's
Speaker 1: just my own preference. In a private practice, Luckily, you
Speaker 1: kind of get to prefer, you to pick who you
Speaker 1: want to see to some extent, because couples, I mean
Speaker 1: I have seen couples every now and again, but I
Speaker 1: ask them a lot of like really tough questions at
Speaker 1: the beginning because they usually come in when it's too late,
Speaker 1: Like they've been struggling for like ten years, haven't had
Speaker 1: sex in like three years, and they want to come
Speaker 1: therapy to fix it, and they're so angry, and it's
Speaker 1: it's like it's almost too late. Not that it can't
Speaker 1: get better. I don't want to think that it can
Speaker 1: always get better, but it just becomes I feel like
Speaker 1: more almost like a referee in a fight than I
Speaker 1: do a therapist sometimes, So depending on how the couple is,
Speaker 1: I'll decide whether or not I will take them honest
Speaker 1: with a client or not. Okay, So people who have
Speaker 1: been in a relationship but haven't had sex in three years?
Speaker 1: Not people like random dudes come in and be like,
Speaker 1: I haven't had sex and three years like in Genier.
Speaker 1: Yeah no, that's totally yeah and help me with that. Okay, good,
Speaker 1: that's totally fine. Yeah. It's more like with the couples
Speaker 1: in a relationship, that's a signal to you that there's
Speaker 1: something amiss in that relationship, Like how important do you
Speaker 1: see sex as? How important is that in a relation?
Speaker 1: I guess it differs my it differs from couple to couple.
Speaker 1: But I do think that sex is like a barometer
Speaker 1: for something going on, like especially if you used to
Speaker 1: have regular sex and then you don't what's happened because
Speaker 1: it's all based on like I'll take couples back to
Speaker 1: like when you first were dating, and I know no
Speaker 1: relationship stays like that, but that's always like an idea
Speaker 1: of Okay, so if you were super in love and
Speaker 1: excited and like have all that like butterflies of the person,
Speaker 1: this would be what you would do. Your sex life
Speaker 1: would look like X. Right. But then if we've moved
Speaker 1: into now not even kissing or touching each other in
Speaker 1: any kind of loving way, or you know what resentments
Speaker 1: have built up, and what does that say about other
Speaker 1: things going on? Because sex itself, like I'm not a sexologist,
Speaker 1: but sex and relationships if there's a lot of it
Speaker 1: or not enough of it, or they're thinking about opening
Speaker 1: it up to other people, having an open relationship, all
Speaker 1: of that to me are just like signals of something
Speaker 1: else going on. It's like little red flags. Really, an
Speaker 1: interest in polyamory is a red flag if it wasn't
Speaker 1: part of the relationship before and it's just one member
Speaker 1: of the partnership. Okay, do you see what I mean?
Speaker 1: Not mutual exactly, Like about the couple, Yeah, because it's
Speaker 1: a couple themselves. Is like I'd like to explore our sexuality,
Speaker 1: like to invite other people into the broment. That sound
Speaker 1: right then that's totally fine. Yeah, It's just all about
Speaker 1: clear communication and agreeance and understanding between the couple. Got
Speaker 1: because as a therapist, like I'm sure you know this,
Speaker 1: but like when you take on a couple, of the
Speaker 1: couple is your patient, so you're looking at them as
Speaker 1: a that like their relationship is what you're working on
Speaker 1: and the dynamics between that, so you have to make
Speaker 1: sure that both partners, both parts of that couple are
Speaker 1: on board. Yeah, thanks for that clarification, Thank you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why I ask all these clarifying questions because I
Speaker 1: want to make sure we were talking about the right parameters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're on the same page. And I also don't want
Speaker 1: you to be misrepresented or misquoted, you know, as you're saying,
Speaker 1: like anyone who's not into uh, yeah, that's a red flag.
Speaker 1: I don't think you're saying that. No, so I know
Speaker 1: you're not saying that. So moving on from that topic,
Speaker 1: I want to cover lots of swaths of humanity. You know,
Speaker 1: what is the best way to deal with a toxic
Speaker 1: co worker? Ooh, and that's always kind of tricky, and
Speaker 1: the best way we can do it first, like with
Speaker 1: anything in life, I feel like, is just communication. If
Speaker 1: it's safe, it's really great to try to communicate with
Speaker 1: them to figure out like, let's say the toxic co
Speaker 1: worker is like, you know, fighting with you at every
Speaker 1: turn while you work on this project together. But you
Speaker 1: have to work with them because it's not like you
Speaker 1: have a choice, right, You've been placed in this group
Speaker 1: together and you have this presentation. Let's say you have
Speaker 1: to give. That's really important. Yeah, I think it's really
Speaker 1: best first to communicate with them and say something the
Speaker 1: effect of, you know, Scott, it was I'm really trying
Speaker 1: to work with you, and I just feel that you're
Speaker 1: not happy with the way things are going, and can
Speaker 1: you tell me what's going on? Like is there something
Speaker 1: that I'm doing? Like first, we have to come at
Speaker 1: it so we don't make them defensive. We want to
Speaker 1: open it up and be like, is there something I
Speaker 1: can do better? Is there something that's happened that's upsetting,
Speaker 1: Because oftentimes people are like when they're lashing out like that,
Speaker 1: it's like passive aggressive behavior, and so we need to
Speaker 1: give them a way to not be passive about it,
Speaker 1: to be direct and assertive. And obviously if things perpetuate
Speaker 1: and they don't get better and they won't communicate with you,
Speaker 1: and when you try to talk they just scream or
Speaker 1: you know, stonewall and don't talk to at all, then
Speaker 1: the next step is to take it to like your
Speaker 1: boss or HR, because it is a work environment and
Speaker 1: you don't have to put up with it. If they're
Speaker 1: all jerks, change jobs, you should probably start looking for
Speaker 1: another job, and also talk to HR because like you
Speaker 1: might like, quitting means that you don't get any funding
Speaker 1: to find another job. Let's say it's so terrible that
Speaker 1: you don't feel safe at your job. You know there
Speaker 1: are laws to protect you, so that you do have
Speaker 1: some you know, whether it's part of the unemployment that
Speaker 1: you get or something like that, they can still allow
Speaker 1: you to have that stuff because you should feel safe
Speaker 1: where you work. Communication, I find solves most problems, and
Speaker 1: I know in the working environment, it's best for us
Speaker 1: to at least try that so that we have like
Speaker 1: record that we tried, Like keep emails you've sent, you know,
Speaker 1: keep voicemails they've left for you, keep that stuff so
Speaker 1: that you have that to be like, no, I've really tried,
Speaker 1: and this is what happened, so that you're kind of
Speaker 1: protecting your job and at the same time, you know,
Speaker 1: and then when you reach out to HR, they don't
Speaker 1: think that or your boss for instance, they don't think
Speaker 1: they were there your first stop that you also tried
Speaker 1: other things first, because most people want you to be
Speaker 1: an adult and try to work it out on your own.
Speaker 1: You know, they're not there to babysit people. And I've
Speaker 1: heard that from a lot of my viewers that when
Speaker 1: they went to their boss, they're like, well, if you
Speaker 1: tried on your own first, would you apply these similar
Speaker 1: principles to if you are in a toxic relationship with
Speaker 1: someone you know, like not just a toxic business partner,
Speaker 1: but you're a relationship and you're like, well, you have
Speaker 1: the sun realization, well this person is really toxic. How
Speaker 1: do you get out of that? It's a little different
Speaker 1: when it's a not a work relationship, because we can't
Speaker 1: always get out of our work relationships. Yeah, sure we
Speaker 1: can look for another job, but that's not always an
Speaker 1: option for people, and we can feel a little more stuck.
Speaker 1: And so when it comes to our personal relationships again,
Speaker 1: the same does apply. Like the communication, we should always
Speaker 1: try to talk to them and say like, hey, I've
Speaker 1: you know, I've been feeling this way, and try to
Speaker 1: use ie statements, don't blame them and I statements really
Speaker 1: just means instead of me saying something like you always
Speaker 1: do this or you are so judgmental, people are going
Speaker 1: to get defensive if we use those statements, so they
Speaker 1: shut down. But if we use statements like you know,
Speaker 1: I have been feeling really stressed out lately, with the
Speaker 1: way our relationship is working, and when I'm spoken to
Speaker 1: and what I assumes an aggressive manner, I find myself
Speaker 1: shutting down and I want to talk to you about it,
Speaker 1: And so we're trying to tease. I know, the language
Speaker 1: seems so like small changes, but it really changes them
Speaker 1: from being potentially defensive and shutting down or fighting with
Speaker 1: us too, hopefully being able to lean back, open up
Speaker 1: and have a conversation. And so that's always the first
Speaker 1: step is at least try to talk to them, because
Speaker 1: if there's anything worth if you can salvage the relationship,
Speaker 1: we should try. But I understand that's not always safe,
Speaker 1: nor are we able at that point. I usually tell
Speaker 1: my clients and my viewers like, give it a break,
Speaker 1: get some space, because with space can sometimes come a
Speaker 1: little bit of clarity and you can decide whether you
Speaker 1: do want to try to work on things or maybe
Speaker 1: you should, you know, end the relationship. And again, when
Speaker 1: we end the relationship, if you can, if it's safe enough,
Speaker 1: I do still think it's best to call, if not
Speaker 1: see them in person and talk to them about that.
Speaker 1: How much do you deal with narcissism in your practice? Right? No,
Speaker 1: not that much. I've had some in the past, parents
Speaker 1: of the children I have seen, as well as patients
Speaker 1: of mine. It can be really difficult even as a
Speaker 1: clinician because they can be very manipulative trying to get
Speaker 1: their way, because if people don't understand what narcissists are,
Speaker 1: what narcissism means, it's really people who put off this
Speaker 1: grandiose sense of self. They're all about self preservation and
Speaker 1: making themselves look the best and putting themselves first. So
Speaker 1: that's kind of in a nutshell always yes, but it's
Speaker 1: really because they feel really frat and not secure. So
Speaker 1: it's all I call it, like they're puffer chesting, you know,
Speaker 1: like imagine a rooster like to stressen around fish exactly,
Speaker 1: Like yes, right now. So they're like boastful and putting
Speaker 1: out their best, but they really don't feel that great.
Speaker 1: And so in order to keep people thinking they're the
Speaker 1: best and doing what they want and getting their needs
Speaker 1: met first, they'll manipulate to make that happen. And so
Speaker 1: it can be tricky in therapy because as soon as
Speaker 1: a therapist, at least in my experience, as soon as
Speaker 1: I identify that that's what's going on and try to
Speaker 1: work with them to better understand they stop coming, And
Speaker 1: that's not one hundred percent of the time, but it's
Speaker 1: most of the time. Like I've had the parents pull
Speaker 1: their children out or they'll stop coming because they try
Speaker 1: to manipulate to get what they want. And that's not
Speaker 1: always you know, it doesn't always work out. But I
Speaker 1: do believe everybody can get better if they want to.
Speaker 1: So if they wanted to, they could. I really like
Speaker 1: that attitude, very hopeful. You know, there's a form of
Speaker 1: narciss and I've been staying in my research called vulnerable narcisism,
Speaker 1: which is not the puffing out version, but it's more
Speaker 1: introverted and more tied to neuroticism as a person, and
Speaker 1: vulnerarcisism is more of like tied to borderline. In fact,
Speaker 1: we found that's what I was thinking because I was
Speaker 1: like anger in instead of anger out. That's exactly so
Speaker 1: there's a more extra line is externalizing form of narcissism
Speaker 1: and internalizing form of narcissism. It's more linked to depression.
Speaker 1: And but they're resenting everyone in the world, and you know,
Speaker 1: like they're laying in their bed and they're not leaving
Speaker 1: their bed. You know, because they're like, they're like, why
Speaker 1: won't everyone just like realize how vulnerable I am and
Speaker 1: how much, you know, my issues and problems are more
Speaker 1: important than everyone else's issues and problems, and so it
Speaker 1: is actually very tied, is very weak. We find a
Speaker 1: point in some research, point nine to five correlation between
Speaker 1: vulnerable narcissism and borderline scales. So I could see that,
Speaker 1: and I have a video about like quiet borderline, which
Speaker 1: is like, because some borderlines are very because they feel
Speaker 1: everything really intensely, so they'll lash out at people, but
Speaker 1: some lash in, so it'll be like intense depressions, suicide
Speaker 1: attempts lots of self injury because it's almost like instead
Speaker 1: of anger out, anger in, which is kind of how
Speaker 1: we describe depression, depression with anger in. Yeah, that's really fascinating.
Speaker 1: But while most people with narcissm have depression, most people
Speaker 1: depression don't have vulnerable narcissisms. I should make it both ways.
Speaker 1: It's not reverse backwards compatible, but yeah, yeah, so anyway,
Speaker 1: I think it's an interesting form of narcissism that has
Speaker 1: more well, we wrote this paper recently arguing that's the
Speaker 1: one with more mental health implications you know, you're unlikely
Speaker 1: to see the grandiose narcissists stay long on the therapist couch,
Speaker 1: but you're very likely to see a lot of more
Speaker 1: vulnerable narcissists. Yeah. Yeah, that man to really makes sense
Speaker 1: because borderline patients love therapy. Yeah, they tend to be
Speaker 1: in therapy a lot. Yeah. I mean they could be
Speaker 1: very thoughtful individuals who are very interested in understanding themselves
Speaker 1: and understanding why are they I mean, they're human too.
Speaker 1: It's a great Yeah, that's a great trait I think too,
Speaker 1: Like I think people try to stigmatize certain types of
Speaker 1: mental illness, but I'm like, hey, if they're willing to
Speaker 1: do the work, they can get better. So that's really great.
Speaker 1: So how do I know if I need help? You know,
Speaker 1: what are some warning signs and what to look out for. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think the first warning sign is usually something to
Speaker 1: do with like a psychosomatic symptom that tends to be
Speaker 1: people notice most. And when I say psychosomatic symptom, I
Speaker 1: mean like the way our mental health has deteriorated is
Speaker 1: affecting us physically, so where we kind of feel like
Speaker 1: we have a cold or the flu, but we go
Speaker 1: to the doctor and they're like, no, nothing's wrong with you.
Speaker 1: We have body aches, we feel really tired, it can
Speaker 1: be really hard to concentrate. So those are some of
Speaker 1: the symptoms and signs that something bigger is going on.
Speaker 1: And that's usually where my patients, like, I'll get a
Speaker 1: lot of referrals from doctors I work with because they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: they came in thinking they had the flu, but I
Speaker 1: think they're struggling with depression or anxiety, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: And so I think that those are some of the
Speaker 1: first symptoms. But I find my patients are more apt
Speaker 1: to notice because that is like a physical ailment. They're
Speaker 1: more apt to notice when they can't function in their life.
Speaker 1: So aside from just you know, feeling like you might
Speaker 1: have a cold, it can get to the point where
Speaker 1: it's like I'm just crying all the time. I'm tearful
Speaker 1: on my way to work, or I feel panicked all
Speaker 1: the time, my heart is racing, I can't sleep well.
Speaker 1: I had to call in sick twice last week and
Speaker 1: three times this week from work because I just couldn't
Speaker 1: get out of bed and I couldn't shower. I think,
Speaker 1: if there's ever or we can't socialize, Like we find
Speaker 1: ourselves making plans and having to cancel them because we're like,
Speaker 1: I just can't do that. If the things that we
Speaker 1: used to be able to do with ease have become really,
Speaker 1: really difficult, I think that's as soon as you can
Speaker 1: notice that in yourself, if it's just one thing you
Speaker 1: had to cancel or a few things. Hopefully the earlier
Speaker 1: the better, But that's when you really should consider seeing someone.
Speaker 1: Is it okay to have like days like this morning?
Speaker 1: I felt I ticked all those boxes, like is that
Speaker 1: okay to have days like that where you like wake
Speaker 1: up at ben and you're like, you know what, I
Speaker 1: don't really want to deal with the world today. Days
Speaker 1: in a row. I mean, I give my patients like
Speaker 1: a week to maybe almost two weeks before I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's a problem. I feel like most people have bad
Speaker 1: days or a few bad days, or we'll have like
Speaker 1: a stressful week or two. But if it gets passed
Speaker 1: in my mind, if it gets pasted like twelve thirteen days,
Speaker 1: then I'm going to start to worry because I feel
Speaker 1: like all of us can have like a three or
Speaker 1: four days. Okay, you can feel bad, and that's just
Speaker 1: kind of part of the EBB and flow of being
Speaker 1: a human and having life stressors and yeah, you're good,
Speaker 1: don't worry, You're totally good. It's not time to callcaated Morgan.
Speaker 1: I want to circle back to something we started talking
Speaker 1: about in the very beginning of this podcast, but we
Speaker 1: didn't close the thread, And that's what are the main
Speaker 1: types of therapy that exists right now that you think
Speaker 1: are have the most scientific support for them, and have
Speaker 1: you think are really valid? I mean CBT, Cognitive behavioral
Speaker 1: therapy is the one that's easiest for researchers to track.
Speaker 1: It can be very easy to track symptoms that way,
Speaker 1: you know, because that's kind of what they do, is
Speaker 1: like behavioral techniques, and then how many of these behaviors
Speaker 1: are you still doing that are harmful versus helpful? CT
Speaker 1: is probably the most research supported type of therapy. And
Speaker 1: then DBT. Obviously I'm a huge believer in DBT dialectical
Speaker 1: behavior therapy. I also believe in a lot of the
Speaker 1: trauma work. Like I have a friend of mine who
Speaker 1: does EMDR, which is I movement? What is it? Why
Speaker 1: do I always forget what that's called? But I actually
Speaker 1: have to reference my own book for this because I
Speaker 1: forget all the ones that I included because there are
Speaker 1: quite a few therapies. And I also tell my viewers,
Speaker 1: I like, don't think that just because you haven't heard
Speaker 1: of a type of therapy, that doesn't mean it's not
Speaker 1: going to help you. And just because a therapist tells
Speaker 1: you that this type of therapy is great doesn't mean
Speaker 1: that it's going to work. Like everybody's going to be different,
Speaker 1: and most therapists pick and choose from different types. Like
Speaker 1: I do a lot of CBT, I do a lot
Speaker 1: of DBT, but I also have pulled in things I've
Speaker 1: learned over the years, Like I do a lot of
Speaker 1: narrative therapy, where I have my patients tell me the
Speaker 1: stories of times because the more I learn about trauma,
Speaker 1: the more I realize that our brain likes to store stories,
Speaker 1: and so if you have them into a narrative, it
Speaker 1: can be easier for them to process. There's exposure therapy
Speaker 1: if you struggle with any kind of fear of phobia.
Speaker 1: I think that's a great tool. Those are just off
Speaker 1: the top of my head, the ones that I utilize
Speaker 1: the most, but aren't there. I mean, what you're saying
Speaker 1: sounds good, But aren't there really just BS therapies out
Speaker 1: there that just like, you know, like if I go
Speaker 1: like and so I was like, okay, I'm going to
Speaker 1: like align your fifty seven chakra like the you know,
Speaker 1: I call this the crystal vibrational frequency therapy of your soul. Like,
Speaker 1: aren't I allowed to call BS on that? Like even
Speaker 1: if I feel like it's working, like some things are
Speaker 1: actually BS even like we can like they're placebos, right,
Speaker 1: That's why we have science. Yeah, yeah, But I think
Speaker 1: the reason that people struggle to rule out things completely
Speaker 1: is because psychology is like a social science. It's not
Speaker 1: always something you can quantitatively. Yeah, you can't like quantitatively
Speaker 1: look at it. You can't say, oh, well this helped
Speaker 1: these people there. You know, beck depression scale went down
Speaker 1: from six, you know, all the way down to one,
Speaker 1: so they're doing better. But because that's not always how
Speaker 1: you can track it, people aren't always like that. Mental
Speaker 1: health can be different for everybody, and so there are
Speaker 1: some tried and true therapies. I feel like there's a
Speaker 1: therapy for everything, but the most common ones are the
Speaker 1: ones I mentioned in my book and the ones that
Speaker 1: I feel like are supported and things that you should
Speaker 1: try and be open to. But overall, we know that
Speaker 1: it matters more about the therapist and less about the
Speaker 1: therapy style. Oh, that's that's very interesting because more about
Speaker 1: the relationship. That's all comes down to. Then, Like shouldn't
Speaker 1: we pick our friends very carefully? Yes? One hundred. Always
Speaker 1: get rid of toxic friends, Yes, if you can, if
Speaker 1: they won't change. Yeah, because the relationships with the people
Speaker 1: we have end up like filling up all of our
Speaker 1: free time and then changing, making our life better or worse.
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like there's an easier mechanism to
Speaker 1: break up with a relationship partner than a friend, Like
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like, you know, you say, like
Speaker 1: there's something in place for that, like, hey, we've been
Speaker 1: together and I think it's time for us to take
Speaker 1: a break. But when you do that with the friends people,
Speaker 1: it's how like it's worse. You know, it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, and I just don't be your friend anymore,
Speaker 1: Like for some reason, someone takes like if someone says
Speaker 1: I don't want to be your lover anymore, it's almost
Speaker 1: like it might hurt, But we like understand that that's
Speaker 1: like a mechanism. Yeah, that's part of what we've had
Speaker 1: to deal with. If it doesn't work out, we break up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's nothing like no culturally. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: for friendship break Yeah, there's no for this is like
Speaker 1: a seinfold episode, but it is no. But it makes
Speaker 1: sense though, because I think the problem is I was
Speaker 1: just talking to one of a colleague and a friend
Speaker 1: of mine. Her name is Alexa. I've had her in
Speaker 1: my videos, Alexa and my Alexa Amazon thing just turned on.
Speaker 1: Oh did it recognizes my voice? Yeah? It does. Do
Speaker 1: you want to ask alexas anything? Maybe later I have
Speaker 1: to think about it. But my friend Alexa, she she
Speaker 1: and I were talking about how it's for some reason
Speaker 1: in our culture. Maybe maybe it's just in our culture.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but it's expected that once you have
Speaker 1: a friend, you have them for life unless something happens,
Speaker 1: right big thing. She was like, I disagree with that,
Speaker 1: and I was like me too, because we grow, we change, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we grow and change, and like it doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be And I mean I've ended friendships in the past,
Speaker 1: let's say like three to five years. I've ended two
Speaker 1: close friendships, not because I hated them, not because I'm angry,
Speaker 1: but because we're not compatible anymore. That's it. But the
Speaker 1: thing is, but people, Yeah, but people will get very
Speaker 1: defensive over that, like they won't be able to even
Speaker 1: if you say, like, it's nothing really personal, like I'm
Speaker 1: not saying you're a horrible human being. It's just like,
Speaker 1: you know, we're just different, we're not compatible. If you
Speaker 1: say we're not compatible, or like if you say that
Speaker 1: in like a relationship context, like people get it what
Speaker 1: that means when you say that in the friendship thing
Speaker 1: that they like will take it so personally. Oh totally,
Speaker 1: because I don't know why that is. But one of
Speaker 1: my friends did that when I was just trying to
Speaker 1: like consciously uncouple from them, as people say, Yeah, they
Speaker 1: got really mad and tried to start a fight, and
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I care for you, I'm not
Speaker 1: mad at you. I just I don't think we're friends
Speaker 1: anymore exactly, and I don't. I mean, it didn't end
Speaker 1: up going that well, but it was as good as
Speaker 1: I could get it to go. You know. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know you're practicing what you preach because you
Speaker 1: are a big believer that communication is the key to
Speaker 1: a happy healthy life, and a big part of communication
Speaker 1: is healthy assertiveness and healthy assertiveness of your needs. And
Speaker 1: as you have talked about some of your videos about
Speaker 1: the difference between aggressive assertiveness a healthy assertiveness passive aggressive
Speaker 1: assert I find that the worst people who are the
Speaker 1: worst the past, Like I almost would prefer the angry
Speaker 1: one if I had to choose between the angry or
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, other passive guys, because at
Speaker 1: least I know assive, like vulnerable narcissm is crorely passive aggressive.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like they never just actually say what
Speaker 1: they just resent to resent it secretly, and they do
Speaker 1: other things to make your life. You're like, yeah, half
Speaker 1: the time of actually probably like ninety percent of the time,
Speaker 1: you don't even know you've done anything wrong. You're like,
Speaker 1: why are they being such a jerk? I know exactly.
Speaker 1: So that's why communication is so it sounds like you're
Speaker 1: practically you're preaching. I mean, if you feel like you're
Speaker 1: not growing with I mean, isn't it better to break
Speaker 1: off a friendship that you feel like isn't healthy than
Speaker 1: staying in it and faking it and neither of you
Speaker 1: are growing. Yeah, I completely agree. I think it is
Speaker 1: healthier to end it. And I think the unfortunate thing
Speaker 1: is that I've learned by being doing my best to
Speaker 1: communicate is that people are so used to people not
Speaker 1: communicating that when you do, it's like, uh, they don't
Speaker 1: know how to manage like an actual conversation, and that's
Speaker 1: why people can lash out and everything. But I still
Speaker 1: believe that the more we all communicate, the better it
Speaker 1: will feel. And the sooner we get toxic relationships out
Speaker 1: of our lives or relationships that are just not benefiting
Speaker 1: either party, and the freer will feel to be our
Speaker 1: best self, you know, isn't that the goal to like
Speaker 1: grow and change and be happier and be the best
Speaker 1: we can be. I love it, well, yes, yes, I
Speaker 1: think so. Yeah. For listeners out there, if you are
Speaker 1: trying to communicate and people aren't used to you communicating,
Speaker 1: know that it can take them a little time to
Speaker 1: get used to it as well and to be open
Speaker 1: to it. So yeah, tread lightly at first, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: phrase it in a compassionate way. Don't say like, look
Speaker 1: I'm over you, like I'm so over this friendship and
Speaker 1: now of course you're feeling that right Like. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of people. You know, if we're being honest,
Speaker 1: you might have friends where you're feeling I'm so like,
Speaker 1: they keep calling me every weekend, Hey can we hang out?
Speaker 1: And like, you just all you really want to do
Speaker 1: is be like, no, I don't want to hang out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But we say how often do we say yes in
Speaker 1: our lives when we don't really want to? And this
Speaker 1: is a general principle of life, is that I feel
Speaker 1: like most of us say yes to things a lot,
Speaker 1: just out of politeness, not out of authenticity, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think the more we can live an authentic life,
Speaker 1: the better. And sometimes I always something I was reading
Speaker 1: the other day and I forget who it was was
Speaker 1: saying it, but anyway, if somebody had put something up
Speaker 1: on either like Instagram or Facebook, and I was reading
Speaker 1: the caption and they were like, I've been trying to
Speaker 1: live in more authentic life, and they said, sometimes I
Speaker 1: find myself saying yes when I don't mean it. And
Speaker 1: I found that a very small no can equate to
Speaker 1: a very large yes. And that just really resonated with
Speaker 1: me because I was like, sometimes you say yes even
Speaker 1: when you don't want to, and if you said no,
Speaker 1: that opens up that time to do something that makes
Speaker 1: you feel so much more yourself and so much better.
Speaker 1: And it could really be healing. It could be that
Speaker 1: self care that you need, or putting more effort into
Speaker 1: that relationship you've been wanting to put effort into, you know.
Speaker 1: And sometimes that small no that can feel kind of
Speaker 1: hard at the time, but it's really not that big
Speaker 1: of a deal. It can open up all this other stuff.
Speaker 1: And so I keep trying to think of that, like,
Speaker 1: sometimes a small no equals a big yes. I truly
Speaker 1: love that. So what are some things people can do?
Speaker 1: Like how can people get more help when they really
Speaker 1: do need it? Like can you give some practical advice
Speaker 1: to people who are listening to this podcast too, may
Speaker 1: feel like they don't really know where to start their
Speaker 1: search for help. Yeah, I think if we're having trouble
Speaker 1: in life and we're just feeling like we just need
Speaker 1: a little extra support, going to therapy once a week
Speaker 1: is kind of where you start, because that's like the
Speaker 1: lowest level of care. That's what all of us can
Speaker 1: benefit from, like going every exactly, and it's the easiest
Speaker 1: to get even though I know it's a total pain sometimes,
Speaker 1: But like, if you want to use insurance, go through
Speaker 1: your insurance, get the list, make some calls. The best
Speaker 1: way to find a therapist is to get like a
Speaker 1: referral from a friend, like word of mouth, who's seen someone.
Speaker 1: Or if you already see a regular doctor, which most
Speaker 1: of you should get your physicals every year, you can
Speaker 1: ask them if they work with any therapists or no
Speaker 1: of any therapists in the area, or you're psychiatrist, like
Speaker 1: I work with a lot of different people. So those
Speaker 1: are kind of the ways to get in. And then
Speaker 1: you just have to notice how you're feeling. So if
Speaker 1: going in once a week leaves you still feeling worse
Speaker 1: and you find your mental health getting worse, Rember, we
Speaker 1: talked about it turning into mental illness, and I can't function,
Speaker 1: I can't get to work, I can't engage with my
Speaker 1: friends in the way I want. Then ask your therapist
Speaker 1: to see you twice a week, and then from there,
Speaker 1: if it's still not getting better, then there are like
Speaker 1: partial programs where you go in for let's say three
Speaker 1: half days a week, so you get group therapy, you
Speaker 1: get extra one on one therapy. You can kind of see,
Speaker 1: we're just building up the support that you get and
Speaker 1: then from there there are full programs where you go
Speaker 1: in for most of the day, like every day, like
Speaker 1: three to five days a week, all day, and then
Speaker 1: they're inpatient. So then those are ones that you live at,
Speaker 1: and then hospitalizations above that if you have, like it
Speaker 1: depends on where you live and what's available to you,
Speaker 1: whether you have the difference between inpatient and hospitalization available.
Speaker 1: But that's when you just don't feel safe living on
Speaker 1: your own, like your mental health is deteriorated so much
Speaker 1: so that your illness is taking over and you just can't.
Speaker 1: I know, there's no shame in increasing your level of care.
Speaker 1: It's better that we do it sooner. So if you
Speaker 1: feel you're not getting better, ask for that extra session
Speaker 1: because it can get better and more quickly that way,
Speaker 1: and not like white knuckle and hold on until you
Speaker 1: need impatient or a hospitalization. Well, you're doing such a
Speaker 1: great service to people, so many people. I know that
Speaker 1: you get so many people viewing your YouTube videos and
Speaker 1: assume a lot of people have bought your book, and
Speaker 1: so I hope this adds to that, you know, this conversation,
Speaker 1: I hope that people listen to this and realize there
Speaker 1: is hope that we can change if we want to,
Speaker 1: you know, but yeah, Ytna want to. Yeah. I'm going
Speaker 1: to end this podcast with a quote from you that
Speaker 1: I like you said, let's work together to shed light
Speaker 1: on the truth and keep the positive conversation about mental
Speaker 1: health going. I know I will. Yeah. That's the very end.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, I know. Thank you. It's also the end
Speaker 1: of this podcast today. So thank you for having me
Speaker 1: on this show, or not, not only I mean thanks
Speaker 1: for being on. Thanks for being I'm gonna try that again.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on this show, Kittie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. Thank you so much. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening to the Psychology Podcast. I hope you enjoyed
Speaker 1: this episode. If you'd like to react in some way
Speaker 1: to something you heard, I encourage you to join in
Speaker 1: the discussion at the Psychology podcast dot com. That's the
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