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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Story Stay ECUA.

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Speaker 1: Six six. Welcome back to sixteenth Minute, the podcast where

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Speaker 1: we take a look at the Internet's characters, see how

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Speaker 1: their moment affected them and what that says about us

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Speaker 1: and the Internet. I'm your host, Jamie Loftus, and today

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Speaker 1: after a saga that took us all the way back

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Speaker 1: to the turn of the twentieth century in American marketing

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Speaker 1: and up to literally last week, this is the fourth

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Speaker 1: and final installment in our sentient Brands that sometimes get

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Speaker 1: too violent or horny series. So just to start, if

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Speaker 1: you haven't listened to our first several parts, please.

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Speaker 2: Go do that.

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Speaker 1: And if you're joining us again, congratulations you have made

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Speaker 1: it to the duo lingo this OWL episode. Hopefully that's

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Speaker 1: thrilling for you. Now. When we left off in our

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Speaker 1: last episode, we spoke with Nathan Alibach of the nihilist

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Speaker 1: Stakum's account and we began to inch ever closer toward

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Speaker 1: the present. But while Nathan still works in marketing, as

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Speaker 1: do Amy Brown of Wendy's Twitter Rosemaster Fame, neither are

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Speaker 1: still posting on the accounts that they initially made famous.

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Speaker 1: Today that changes my interview for the final part of

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Speaker 1: this series is with someone who I've received potentially a

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Speaker 1: weird amount of requests for. Her name is Zaria Parvez,

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Speaker 1: but you probably know her as the duo lingo owl

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Speaker 1: on TikTok. It is not Zaria in the owl suit,

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Speaker 1: at least not usually. Usually it's some guy named Mark.

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Speaker 1: I got the exclusive Keep listening. But before we can

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Speaker 1: explore how Zaria Parvez, a recent college graduate, went from

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Speaker 1: suggesting that the inoffensive green owl mascot of a free

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Speaker 1: language learning app become extremely horny and virtually grow the

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Speaker 1: company single handedly, let's return to the two marketing roads

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Speaker 1: diverging in a wood we were talking about in our

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Speaker 1: last episode, Ian get the music going. Okay, here we

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Speaker 1: are in the wood. We've explored nihilism as a marketing

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Speaker 1: tactic now through Nathan Allabach's time running social media for Stakum,

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Speaker 1: and we discussed his feelings on running the account now

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Speaker 1: all these years later. So today we're taking a turn

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Speaker 1: into what was until five or so years ago, the

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Speaker 1: final frontier of selling product to a logged in Internet

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Speaker 1: person being weirdly horn I want to explain being horny

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Speaker 1: to you. You know it when you see it, when

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Speaker 1: you feel it, you little pervert. But as far as

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Speaker 1: social media marketing goes, being horny as a brand really

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Speaker 1: came alive in the late twenty tens and experienced a

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Speaker 1: somewhat unsettling uptick in the early twenty twenties. And wouldn't

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Speaker 1: you know it, Nathan Alibach carefully tracked and published a

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Speaker 1: short history that marked this turn from anxiety and nihilism

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Speaker 1: in social media advertising being the flavor of the month

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Speaker 1: to the owl that fucks. He published this in Vulture

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two. It's a piece called When Brands

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Speaker 1: Got Horny, and I've linked it in the description. So

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Speaker 1: to give you an idea of what I mean by

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Speaker 1: horny brands, consider where we're coming from here, where Amy

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Speaker 1: Brown at Wendy Twitter tapped into a propensity for violence.

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Speaker 1: Nathan and Stakham subsequently appealed to anxiety and depression on

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Speaker 1: social media at the time, although because it hasn't come

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Speaker 1: up yet, I will say that no one took advantage

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Speaker 1: of depression more directly, although I do believe it was

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Speaker 1: taken out of context mid thread than the fake orange

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Speaker 1: juice brand Sunny D in February twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Saying I can't do this anymore.

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Speaker 1: This still makes me laugh. I'm sorry, but at this

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Speaker 1: point a tweet like this would prompt a reaction from

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Speaker 1: other brands that was well received but kind of expected.

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Speaker 1: At this point, Moonpies replies to sunny D, asking if

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Speaker 1: they're okay, Pop Tart offers sunny D a hug. You

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Speaker 1: get the idea. Even the official account of Satan, Blue,

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Speaker 1: Check and Everything.

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Speaker 3: Replied, I feel you, sunny D, my friend.

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Speaker 1: We have to keep moving. And while there were some

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Speaker 1: horny accounts earlier in the decade, it was mostly because

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Speaker 1: being a horny was what actually made sense for that company.

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Speaker 1: Think the porn Hub Twitter account. But in the back

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Speaker 1: half of the twenty tens, it seems like the success

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Speaker 1: of the fifty Shades of Gray franchise sort of emboldened

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Speaker 1: some social media managers to get a little kink.

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Speaker 3: Here.

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Speaker 1: From the same week that sunny D threatened suicide, the gigantic,

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Speaker 1: multi billion dollar company Verizon tweeted the following.

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Speaker 3: Yes, T Mobile, We're into BDSM, bigger coverage map, devastating

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Speaker 3: speed and massive capacity.

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Speaker 1: Verizon is a terrible company and yet I am laughing

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Speaker 1: at that. The other examples Nathan Ahlabach uses in his

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Speaker 1: piece are photoshops or quote tweeted replies to horny contents

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Speaker 1: from brands like Jimmy John's and the mixtape dropping grocery

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Speaker 1: store brand itself Hamburger Helper in twenty seventeen. But it's

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Speaker 1: the next year that Nathan identifies that being horny on

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Speaker 1: Maine and yes, I do feel quite old saying that,

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Speaker 1: but being horny unmean is now culturally acceptable, which means

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Speaker 1: that more brand accounts are willing to do it. And

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Speaker 1: this is a very long way of saying that twenty

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Speaker 1: eighteen was the year that it became popular for brands

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Speaker 1: to participate in no Nut November. I quit, I quit

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Speaker 1: my job just getting Here's a tweet from Burger King

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Speaker 1: on November one, twenty eighteen, him it's only a month

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Speaker 1: wif fu crying emoji, and Burger King follows us up

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Speaker 1: with welcome to King Burger, where we can do it

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Speaker 1: your way, but don't get crazy. Okay, this month is

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Speaker 1: so unpleasant. Next, corn Nuts spells out the word nut

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Speaker 1: in nut emojis. Mister Peanuts. Social media says that you

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Speaker 1: can eat him in November because he's technically a lagome.

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Speaker 1: You can see how this fanned out. Nutter Butter obviously

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Speaker 1: got in on this, really name a nut based product

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Speaker 1: with a Twitter account, and they were engaging with no

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Speaker 1: Nut November twenty eighteen. But I will say that corn

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Speaker 1: Nuts did take the cake because they just at one

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Speaker 1: point posted what is the craziest place you've nutted enough?

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Speaker 1: Another successful account posting horny stuff was Netflix in the

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Speaker 1: late twenty tens, And keep in mind this was when

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Speaker 1: Netflix was much better thought of in the public sphere

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Speaker 1: than it is today and was still sort of considered

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Speaker 1: to be a place to find generally good TV and

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Speaker 1: wasn't yet bleeding subscribers. But what's interesting here is that

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Speaker 1: Netflix social media accounts for multiple countries. We're posting horny

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Speaker 1: tweets to the point where it's safe to assume that

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Speaker 1: this was a globally mandated media strategy.

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Speaker 3: We're seeing post like one time, babe doing a step

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Speaker 3: on me and it was awesome, what's something you.

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Speaker 1: Can say during sex? But also when you manage a

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Speaker 1: brand Twitter account, And in most detail, to line up

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Speaker 1: with the release of that Zach Effron Ted Bundy movie,

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Speaker 1: I've seen a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of talk about Ted Bundy's alleged hotness and would

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Speaker 3: like to gently remind everyone that there are literally thousands

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Speaker 3: of hot men on the service, almost all of whom

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Speaker 3: are not convicted serial murderers.

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Speaker 1: You get the idea. By early twenty twenty, Arbi's had

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Speaker 1: created their own WIFU character, and by the time the

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Speaker 1: pandemic lockdown happened, Nathan Alibach Crace's accounts like this, moving

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Speaker 1: into a more blue Ball's horny style of content. So

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Speaker 1: by this logic, we were to believe, as social media

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Speaker 1: consumers that the brands were sitting at home along with

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Speaker 1: millions of other people not having sex. By twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 1: horny brands have been fully normalized. I'm talking weird posts

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Speaker 1: of build a Bears and silk robes called build a

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Speaker 1: Bear after Dark. I'm talking KFC's Twitter posting jacked Colonel

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Speaker 1: Sanders fanart without any comment, and even Denny's Parkening back

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Speaker 1: to our first episode in this series comes full circle

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Speaker 1: and pulls from the IHOB playbook, briefly rebranding itself as

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Speaker 1: Wait for It, Daddies, and It's here we arrive at

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Speaker 1: the duo Lingo owl horny saga that has since evolved

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Speaker 1: into multiple story arcs, and most recently, a pivot back

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Speaker 1: to violence when the green owl Duo Lingo mascot named

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Speaker 1: Duo was quote unquote hit by a cyber truck and killed.

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Speaker 1: And all of this happened just as I started working

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Speaker 1: on this series in early February twenty twenty five. And yes,

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Speaker 1: because it is twenty twenty five, Duo Lingo immediately had

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Speaker 1: merch to launch their dead mascot.

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Speaker 2: With twenty twenty five has got us all knocked down.

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Speaker 2: But not to worry. Where monetizing grief because we are

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Speaker 2: in corporation.

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Speaker 4: For the low price of twenty nine ninety nine, you

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Speaker 4: could prove you really love Duo and friends with the

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Speaker 4: customs cop.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you got to hand it to them, monetizing grief.

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Speaker 1: Who do they think they are? Me and every comedian

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Speaker 1: I've ever met. But none of this would be possible

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Speaker 1: without the Duo Lingo head of social Media, Zaria Parvez,

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Speaker 1: who moved from Portland, Oregon to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, shortly after

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Speaker 1: graduating college to start working at Duo Lingo, and whose

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Speaker 1: energy and enthusiasm and frankly just being a longtime poster

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Speaker 1: brought the company to New heights and escalated all the

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Speaker 1: way to showing Duo the Owl's little ass cheeks during

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Speaker 1: a Super Bowl commercial. And because we did an ethics

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Speaker 1: check in our last episode to see how closely the

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Speaker 1: business practices of Stakhum aligned with Nathan's progressive social media campaign,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to take this chance to do a quick

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Speaker 1: look at the product that the unhinged energy of Zaria's

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Speaker 1: interpretation of Duo the Owl. So let's take a look

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Speaker 1: at Duo Lingo. Honestly, after looking at this for a while,

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Speaker 1: I think Zaria Parvez has it a little bit easier

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Speaker 1: than anyone else I've talked to during this series, really,

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Speaker 1: just because she is not hawking processed meat. Instead, it's

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Speaker 1: her job to try and engage younger audiences online into

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Speaker 1: learning a second language on their phone. It is a

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Speaker 1: comparatively wholesome mission, and the company itself has been mostly

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Speaker 1: without scandal. And I say mostly because like many longtime

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Speaker 1: successful apps, there has been an increased reliance on AI

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Speaker 1: from Duo Lingo that's given them the excuse to lay

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Speaker 1: off much of its workforce. And we can assume using

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Speaker 1: AI has had a tremendously negative impact on the environment.

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Speaker 1: No company without sin, but Duo Lingo was founded in

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Speaker 1: twenty eleven by two twenty some things. As these businesses

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Speaker 1: tend to be founded by a guy named Lewis van

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Speaker 1: On and the bone chillingly named Severin Hacker. Imagine knowing

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Speaker 1: a guy with that name. So while the AI controversy

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Speaker 1: is entirely bullshit, and from what I can tell, the

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Speaker 1: founders have been very evasive about it as far as

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Speaker 1: an app that inevitably collects user data goes, NordVPN recently

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Speaker 1: said that Duo Lingo is a relatively safe app to use.

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Speaker 1: Sure they've had data breaches before, but not more than

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Speaker 1: your average app. I actually used Duolingo myself for a

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Speaker 1: while during the summer of twenty nineteen after I saw

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Speaker 1: the movie Midsummar and decided, Hey, Jamie, what if you

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Speaker 1: learned Swedish so you can Midsummar. I'm not sure what

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Speaker 1: the thinking was there, and it was really vulnerable of

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Speaker 1: me to tell you that, because since the twenty twenty lockdown,

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Speaker 1: Duolingo membership with both pay and free account options has

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Speaker 1: continued to increase. It's a very successful app, and Zaria

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Speaker 1: Parvez explains in our interview that She chose to go

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Speaker 1: to Duo Lingo over other marketing jobs because of its mission.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to work for a company whose mission she

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Speaker 1: believed in and a workplace that was likely to be

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Speaker 1: more diverse. Because being Pakistani American, she very often found

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Speaker 1: herself being the only non white person in the room

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Speaker 1: and hoped that a company with a multicultural mission stood

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Speaker 1: to be a little bit different. So Zaria comes aboard

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Speaker 1: to Duolingo. In twenty twenty a terrible time to be

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Speaker 1: a person, much less a recent college graduate, but as

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Speaker 1: we just revisited, a sort of darkly advantageous time to

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Speaker 1: be a social media marketer. Speaking in the most cynical

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Speaker 1: terms possible, you weren't likely to find a more captive

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Speaker 1: audience than twenty twenty, and learning a lot language mostly

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Speaker 1: for free seemed to many like a less nihilistic way

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Speaker 1: to spend one's time. But even with that considered, prior

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Speaker 1: to early twenty twenty one, Duo Lingo wasn't really known

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Speaker 1: for its social media presence, even though, as we just

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Speaker 1: talked about, Horny Brand's strategy on social media had already

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Speaker 1: reached its peak at this time, at least over on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: So while Zaria didn't invent this style, she has essentially

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Speaker 1: perfected it because, as any convincing social media marketer does,

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Speaker 1: I've gleaned at this point, she's made her own playbook

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Speaker 1: and posted what she actually thought was funny authenticity. It's

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Speaker 1: the thing that all advertisers are going for, and so

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Speaker 1: few actually accomplish. Okay. Early twenty twenty one, Zaria Parvez

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Speaker 1: has yet to take the lead on Duo Lingo's social media,

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Speaker 1: but has been at the company for about a year

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Speaker 1: at this point, and Duo Lingo at this time is

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Speaker 1: running a pretty dry social strategy, and for the purposes

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Speaker 1: of this episode, I'm going to focus on TikTok, where

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Speaker 1: they've had the most success at this time. The plan

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Speaker 1: was ostensibly to pay existing TikTok influencers to collaborate with

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Speaker 1: the brand and talk about the languages that they were

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Speaker 1: learning in order to get their fans to sign up

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Speaker 1: for the app. You've seen stuff like this before. It's

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Speaker 1: nothing particularly edgy, but the posts you're cute.

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Speaker 5: Did you know that?

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Speaker 6: In Dutch there is the saying new compt de app

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Speaker 6: out the mau, which means now the monkey comes out

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Speaker 6: a sleeve.

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Speaker 2: New compt de app out.

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Speaker 3: The mau is used when something is revealed that was

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Speaker 3: previously secret.

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Speaker 1: However, the posts were also underperforming, and per Azaria in

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Speaker 1: our interview, the company didn't think it was worth the

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Speaker 1: fees of the influencers to continue it, and instead of

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Speaker 1: thinking of a new strategy, Duo Lingo very nearly deprioritized

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Speaker 1: TikTok marketing entirely, and Zaria, an avid TikTok fan herself,

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Speaker 1: disagreed with this and asked for the chance to just

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Speaker 1: chase a few trends on the app. And almost immediately

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Speaker 1: this approach blew up, in no small part thanks to

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Speaker 1: a mascot suit of Duo, the Green Owl, that Zaria

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Speaker 1: found hanging around the office luring at everybody. The first

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Speaker 1: video that blows up is one of Zaria herself, because

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Speaker 1: in the beginning she appeared in these videos pretty regularly.

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Speaker 1: She's sitting at a desk in the Duo Lingo offices

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Speaker 1: with the creepy empty owl mascot suit sitting behind her,

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Speaker 1: with trending audio playing. How am I supposed to live

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Speaker 1: laugh love in these conditions? And in part because of

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Speaker 1: the weirdness of it, and in part because of using

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Speaker 1: that trending audio, this TikTok blows up and before you

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Speaker 1: know but Zaria is on a roll. She asks a

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Speaker 1: coworker to jump into the duo owl suit that's Mark,

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Speaker 1: and within a couple of weeks, the TikTok account had

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Speaker 1: fully pivoted to using Duo as a sometimes menacing, sometimes

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Speaker 1: vaguely horny tool to remind people on TikTok to do

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Speaker 1: their daily duo lingo or to sign up and start

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Speaker 1: learning a language if they hadn't already. Now, if you

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Speaker 1: haven't used duo Lingo before, this probably sounds weird and circuitous,

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Speaker 1: but if you have, it's no surprise that Zaria's strategy,

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Speaker 1: which was both very intentional and really fun for her

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Speaker 1: to do, worked really well because the way that she

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Speaker 1: was anthropomorphizing Duo the Owl was very similar to the

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Speaker 1: way that fans of Duo Lingo had been making popular

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Speaker 1: memes about that same character for years. The difference was that,

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Speaker 1: prior to Zaria taking on this role at the front

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Speaker 1: of social media, the company had never interacted with these

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Speaker 1: very popular memes. So while it might sound out of

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Speaker 1: nowhere that Zaria having a static image of the Duo

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Speaker 1: mascot suit in the office with her eyes, mouth and

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Speaker 1: voice lip syncing to audio like this.

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Speaker 3: Uh oh oh, I know what the consequences of my actions.

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Speaker 1: You know it's your boy, and I just want to

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Speaker 1: apologize here because I know how painful it is for

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Speaker 1: people to explain tiktoks to you. Just ask your most

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Speaker 1: annoying friend. But the comments that Duo or Zaria was

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Speaker 1: replying to here all had to do with Duo Lingo

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Speaker 1: streaks or basically, did you use Duo Lingo today to

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Speaker 1: preserve your however many day long streak of learning whichever language.

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Speaker 1: It's a big incentive of using the app and always

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Speaker 1: had been so. Users had made a ton of memes

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Speaker 1: of the reminder push notifications that Duo Lingo would often

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Speaker 1: send its users to remind them to do their daily

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Speaker 1: lessons or lose their streak, and these notifications were presented

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Speaker 1: somewhat menacingly by the supposedly friendly Duo the owl, and

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Speaker 1: this led to the user generated meme Evil Duo Lingo Owl,

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Speaker 1: a photoshop version of Duo holding a gun and saying

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Speaker 1: something like the Duo Lingo owl when you haven't practiced

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Speaker 1: in two days. It was pretty funny and it became

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Speaker 1: a meme format for other stuff. But this meme became

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Speaker 1: popular among Duo Lingo users all the way back in

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. I can confirm this because it definitely existed

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Speaker 1: the summer that I failed to learn how to introduced

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Speaker 1: myself in Swedish. But it took four full years until

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one for the Duo Lingo company via Zaria,

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Speaker 1: to embrace this ethos as their mascot's actual personality. So again,

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Speaker 1: Zaria is using raw material that was already there. Where

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Speaker 1: social media managers like Amy Brown or Nathan Alabach had

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Speaker 1: to create a personality for a legacy company, Zaria Parvez

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Speaker 1: is taking existing memes and using her own creativity to

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Speaker 1: amplify it for a relatively young company, and she gets

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Speaker 1: a lot of support internally to do this. Zaria was

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Speaker 1: in her early twenties when this began and was basically

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Speaker 1: given free reign to turn Duo the Owl into a

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Speaker 1: mascot suited TikTok sitcom agent of chaos, and, as she

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Speaker 1: explains in our interview, the account's ever climbing presence seemed

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Speaker 1: to boost user retention and daily use on the app itself,

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Speaker 1: particularly among young people, because keep in mind that in

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Speaker 1: the early twenty twenties, the vast majority of TikTok users

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Speaker 1: were still teenagers and people in their early to mid twenties,

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Speaker 1: and so particularly in twenty twenty one, to do well

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Speaker 1: on TikTok was to uniquely corner a market of young people,

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Speaker 1: and these young people on TikTok, from what at least

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Speaker 1: initial conventional studies have reflected, were more willing to interact

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Speaker 1: with a brand account on social media than the millennials

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Speaker 1: and particularly gen Z Internet users of your were. And

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Speaker 1: we've traced this throughout this series because even when a

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Speaker 1: brand was attempting to act authentically even ten years earlier,

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Speaker 1: you would very frequently see the comments flooded with silence

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Speaker 1: brand memes. But by the time Zo Maria Parvez is

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Speaker 1: acting as Duo the Owl, if a brand was coming

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Speaker 1: off as authentically online seeming, there were very few calls

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Speaker 1: of this nature. Because Duo was playing knowingly into a

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Speaker 1: then four year old, originally fan made meme and represented

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Speaker 1: an ostensibly wholesome company, most young users didn't seem to

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Speaker 1: really have a problem with it. And another big difference

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Speaker 1: was that these young users seemed well aware that the

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Speaker 1: account was being run by one of them, making it

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Speaker 1: easier to play into the fun. Going back to the

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Speaker 1: character of Duo of the Owl, when Duo was characterized

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Speaker 1: as violent, it was a brand focused kind of violent.

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Speaker 1: He was willing to kill in order to keep Duo

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Speaker 1: Lingo users' streaks going, and so in the early days

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Speaker 1: of the account's virality, the shorthand for this was Spanish

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Speaker 1: or Vanish, and the followers of the Duol account loved

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Speaker 1: this and interacted with it very, very frequently, which only

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Speaker 1: boosted its engagement in the algorithm. When the Duo Lingo

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Speaker 1: account posted a vague threat to keep its members on

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Speaker 1: their streaks, commenters would jokingly beg for their lives. Here

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Speaker 1: are a few examples.

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Speaker 6: Duo, it's the FBI release the families don't feel like

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Speaker 6: it thinks, so Duo watches over my lessons more than

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Speaker 6: the FBI watches over the most wanted criminals.

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Speaker 1: Duo, it's hard being a single mom who works two

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Speaker 1: jobs and the survive. But Zaria also switches things up

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Speaker 1: every so often so that no one approach lasts long

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Speaker 1: enough to burn out fans of the account, and that

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Speaker 1: was hard on an Internet trend cycle that kept moving

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Speaker 1: faster and faster. But I know why you're here. You're

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Speaker 1: here to hear about the horny posts. So for your purposes,

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Speaker 1: two things stand out. Not because Duo the Owl was

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Speaker 1: the first to be a horny anthropomorphized character for from it,

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Speaker 1: but Duo certainly went the furthest that a prominent brand

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Speaker 1: had gone to this point. One we'll discuss in more

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Speaker 1: detail in our interview, which was a collaboration between Duo

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Speaker 1: Lingo and Fellow Down for whatever style social media brand

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Speaker 1: scrub Daddy, which is a sponge company that genders sponges.

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Speaker 1: I have a scrub mommy in my sink right now.

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Speaker 1: No time we talk about it in the interview, but

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Speaker 1: the two social media teams met up, and long story short,

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Speaker 1: Duo Lingo and scrub Daddy decided to make it seem

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Speaker 1: as if their two mascots had a baby together. I

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Speaker 1: promised this will be the last very scary thing I

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Speaker 1: described in this episode. So as this music is playing,

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Speaker 1: it's accompanied by a slideshow of pictures of the scrub

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Speaker 1: Daddy anthropomorphic sponge character holding Duo the Owl's shoulders as

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Speaker 1: the Owl literally gives birth to owl shaped sponges at

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Speaker 1: what cost? At what cost? And keep in mind this

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Speaker 1: is fairly recent in social media history, so after the

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Speaker 1: fall of the clickbait marketing zenith, years of BuzzFeed, Mashable,

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Speaker 1: you name it. So if you want to go viral

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Speaker 1: as a brand, now it's up to employees to capture

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Speaker 1: the interests of users directly, not a random underpaid writer

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Speaker 1: beholden to posting twenty clickbait pieces a day, and in

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Speaker 1: order to do that, you need to do more. You

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Speaker 1: can't just be horny. You have to be the horniest

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Speaker 1: brand that's ever existed. The other example in Duo Lingo's case,

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Speaker 1: which sort of served as a story arc, was Duo

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Speaker 1: the Owls crush on Dua Lipa. Don't overthink it. The

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Speaker 1: name sounds similar, and because TikTok is run by an opaque,

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Speaker 1: uncannily people pleasing algorithm, a TikTok using trending audio that

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Speaker 1: featured the photo of a current celebrity like Dua Lipa

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Speaker 1: was bound to have a good start in the algorithm

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Speaker 1: in terms of gaining subtraction, but it wasn't enough, and

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Speaker 1: the Duo Lingo account escalated most memorably when they posted

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Speaker 1: Duo photoshopped with Zaria's eyes and mouth onto Duo in

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Speaker 1: a public pool, asking ew who pete.

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Speaker 3: In the pool?

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Speaker 1: Cut two a photo of Dua Lipa on the red carpet,

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Speaker 1: captioned sorry it was me. Cut two Duo the Owl

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Speaker 1: photoshopped as a mermaid swimming underwater, swimming in hot Girl piss.

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Speaker 2: Yay, we did it.

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Speaker 1: You listen to this series for three hours just so

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Speaker 1: you could get to do a leapus piss. You could

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Speaker 1: just watch porn. The wild thing here is that even

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Speaker 1: when the approach seems deeply unhinged on Duo Lingo's behalf,

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Speaker 1: Zaria is one of the few social media managers that

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Speaker 1: can prove her approach leads to user retention. Data bears

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00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: this out, but there is also proof from the comments

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Speaker 1: in these same horny posts from Reddit after the Piss TikTok.

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Speaker 3: Honestly, every time Duo shows up on my for you page,

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Speaker 3: I log and do my owl homework for the day,

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Speaker 3: so it seems like they're doing something right. Do aleapap

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Speaker 3: jokes be damned.

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Speaker 1: The Duo Lingo TikTok account hits a million followers in

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Speaker 1: late twenty twenty one and now boasts nearly seventeen million followers,

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Speaker 1: and none of this would have happened with the old

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Speaker 1: vagaries of the influence overlap attempt that existed when Zaria

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Speaker 1: began working there. Not only did other young TikTokers love

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Speaker 1: the way that Duo interacted with trends, but they also

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Speaker 1: clearly understood that behind this account was a social media

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Speaker 1: manager working hard and hopefully having fun. A comment from

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two bears this out.

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Speaker 3: If they fire you, I will never duoh another lingo

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Speaker 3: and I literally have a one hundred and fifty nine

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Speaker 3: day streak because of this account.

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Speaker 1: And this also indicates a pretty significant generational shift from

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Speaker 1: the time that we began covering this series. Our first

430
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: interview was with Serenity Disco, who, when acting as Denny's

431
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Tumbler, had some Internet users recognize that

432
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 1: they were a middle class person operating the account, but

433
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: it wasn't assumed that they were. The way it is

434
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: now where Zaria was and is catering to multiple generations

435
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: of online users, and what seems indisputable based on available research,

436
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: is that millennials were more willing to engage with targeted

437
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: ads than Gen X, Gen Z was more willing to

438
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: engage with targeted ads than millennials, and now Gen alpha

439
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: is more willing to engage with targeted ads than Gen Z. Terrifying. Yeah,

440
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: I'm still constantly pursing out how young people are both

441
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: uniquely attuned to the ways in which capitalism is dismantling

442
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: their lives and are willing to engage with it when

443
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: it's fun. But I'm no better. Gen X is the same,

444
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 1: Gen Alpha is the same. And while I do believe

445
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: that the children are our future, blah blah blah, the

446
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: children are being raised by algorithms are generation made, and

447
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: we don't know what we're doing, so it's a cycle

448
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 1: that is bound to continue repeating. Okay, we're talking about

449
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: the horny owl. By twenty twenty four, Duo Lingo was

450
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: horny posting during Super Bowl ads, playing the following commercial

451
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: and just try to guess what's happening based on the sound. Okay,

452
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: you win one hundred dollars if you knew that was

453
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: duo the owls but inflating until it popped into a

454
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: second Duo the Owl and then just the words do

455
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: your duo Lingo. While Zaria did not conceive this commercial directly.

456
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: She made this possible, and as time passed, Zaria was

457
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: given the funding to build out her own team and

458
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: work with other ad agencies to build her vision for

459
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: Duo to factor directly into the app itself. More recently,

460
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: when a social media campaign with Duo is rolled out,

461
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: it's reflected in the logo of the app. So if

462
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: Duo is sick on TikTok, Duo is sick on the

463
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: Dual Lingo app, and you can't really lose if you're

464
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: the company here, because even if a user does not

465
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: engage with the brand online, seeing an icon that's normally

466
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: a smiling owl suddenly being a vomiting owl might make

467
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: you stop in your tracks and remember to practice Spanish again.

468
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: Most recently, as I mentioned earlier, this resulted in a

469
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: stunt that had Duo the Owl and all the other

470
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: expanded universe Duo Lingo characters murdered by a cyber truck,

471
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: which got mainstream attention. That's genuinely hard to pull off

472
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: these days when so many clickbait aggregators have fallen or

473
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: pivoted to Nazism. I mean, Dua Lipa herself mourned Duo

474
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: the Owl just a couple weeks ago.

475
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 5: Duo the Owl is dead and pop star Dual is responding.

476
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 5: On February eleventh, the language learning app Duolingo announced their mascot,

477
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 5: Duo the Owl, was fatally hit by a Tesla cybertruck.

478
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 5: In a statement, the app wrote, tbh, he probably died

479
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 5: waiting for you to do your lesson, but what do

480
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 5: we know. Duo Lingo also encouraged users to share their

481
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,239
Speaker 5: credit card numbers in the comments, adding at the end,

482
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 5: we appreciate you respecting do Alipa's privacy at this time,

483
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 5: and now do a Lipa is responding on X with

484
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 5: her own words of mourning, writing till death Duo part,

485
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 5: adding a broken heart.

486
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: Emoji and if killing the mascot sounds familiar, it's because

487
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: this kind of mirrors the nut Alert Mister Peanut death

488
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: stunt of twenty twenty. There was also a Super Bowl

489
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: commercial for this, complete with the kool Aid man's tears

490
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: fertilizing the ground and growing a baby. Mister Peanut.

491
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,719
Speaker 3: Mister Peanut, he spent his life bringing people together.

492
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 5: I know he'd be happy that we all hit together.

493
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: Thankfully. Dual Lingo changes course quickly after killing off Duo

494
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: the Owl and instead of doing a weird commercial, instead

495
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: cross promoted between marketing and the Duo Lingo app itself

496
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: to quote bring Duo back to life. This meant having

497
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: users engage with the app in order to do so,

498
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: and two weeks and a shitload of press later, Duo

499
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: the Owl was back to normal. And that amount of

500
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 1: cooperation across departments and a company is pretty unique by

501
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: today's standards. So enough, horny setup, change your underwear. Let's

502
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 1: hear it from the Green Owl's proxy herself. Up next,

503
00:34:47,280 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: my conversation with Zaria Parves. Welcome back to sixteenth minute.

504
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: I just wanted to take a moment to say I

505
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: really appreciated the thread on the sixteenth minute reddit board

506
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: from last week asking politely if I farted during the

507
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: interview last week. And sorry to disappoint, but I am

508
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: pretty sure that was a glitch on Apple podcasts. A

509
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 1: likely story, I know. Anyways, here's my interview with Dual

510
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: Lingo's own, Zaria Parvez. This interview has been edited for

511
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: time and clarity.

512
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Hi, my name is Zaria.

513
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 4: I'm the global Senior Social Media Manager at due Lingo

514
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 4: and I've been here for about five years. I handle

515
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,320
Speaker 4: all of our content with my amazing content team that

516
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 4: you see on our TikTok our Instagram or YouTube.

517
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 2: So really just in it and the weeds with social

518
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: at due Lingo.

519
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 4: What a lot of people don't know is actually Duelingo

520
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,880
Speaker 4: is my first job out of college. Yeah, so I

521
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 4: did not job before this, which is kind of crazy,

522
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 4: But I grew up in Portland to Oregon and I

523
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 4: attended University of Oregon. I studied marketing there and my

524
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 4: focus was actually brand strategy. Then the pandemic came around

525
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 4: and I graduated, so I was like a twenty twenty

526
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 4: grad and I knew I wanted a job in marketing,

527
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 4: but I was seeing what was out there, and I think, like,

528
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 4: for me, like my biggest thing is I really wanted

529
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 4: to be like I always say, I work best in

530
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 4: the shadows and in the preiphery, So like I wanted

531
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 4: to be at a company that was kind of like

532
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 4: still starting up with like their marketing, they weren't like

533
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 4: number one in the game at the time, but also

534
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 4: like a company that had a good ethos. So like

535
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 4: that's kind of how I stumbled into like going to Pittsburgh,

536
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 4: I guess from Portland and like finding dueling go and

537
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 4: all of this was I just wanted to be at

538
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 4: a company that was like inherently diverse, and I thought, hey,

539
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 4: like a place that teaches languages sounds like a pretty

540
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 4: diverse place to be. And they had a social media

541
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 4: coordinator role open when I was starting, Like, I was

542
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 4: interested in marketing, but I didn't know it was social

543
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,279
Speaker 4: and I was just more chasing the company versus the job.

544
00:36:58,400 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 4: And I was like, I'm new, I'll figured it out

545
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 4: and if it's for me, great, If not, we can

546
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 4: always pivot. But yeah, that's a little bit about me.

547
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: I hope this sounds like the compliment is intended to be.

548
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: It makes so much sense that you're from Portland. It

549
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: just really clarifies a lot. That makes me feel good

550
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: because I miss organ every day. Well, in my experience

551
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: in college, they weren't teaching the internet correctly or well,

552
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: I'm curious, how did you get drawn to marketing and

553
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: how is it taught to you versus what the industry

554
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 1: ended up being.

555
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 2: Like, that's such a cool question. I don't think I've

556
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 2: ever been asked that before. I actually was in pre med.

557
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 4: I like every other Pakistani kid that I was going

558
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 4: to become a doctor and quickly learned one quarter in

559
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 4: that I am not going to chemistry and it wasn't

560
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 4: for me. But what I did really love about chemistry

561
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 4: in general was like writing the lab reports. Like that

562
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 4: for me was like, oh, this is fun, and like

563
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 4: especially the last part that's always like explain why this

564
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 4: matters in the world. And I think for me, like

565
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 4: that was kind of a moment where I was like, Okay,

566
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 4: I'm a writer, and like I'm failing my chem tests,

567
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,919
Speaker 4: but I'm doing well on lab reports, so maybe there's

568
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 4: something here. And as people do in college, started exploring

569
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 4: other things and just seeing what was out there, and

570
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 4: advertising a university organ is huge because like White and

571
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 4: Kennedy Nike, it like all comes from organ so I

572
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 4: knew of it and I just like took one class

573
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 4: one quarter and absolutely was like, Yeah, this is what

574
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 4: I want to do.

575
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:26,479
Speaker 2: I can be creative and I can.

576
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 4: Write, and I can create things and get paid fairly

577
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 4: well for it, So like, yeah, why would I not

578
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 4: do this? And at my heart and at my core

579
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 4: even now, I still think I'm a writer. Like writing

580
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 4: is my true joy, whether that's like comedy writing or

581
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 4: like little captions or like the punchy lines that you

582
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 4: see on Duo's tiktoks, or like long form marketing just

583
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 4: kind of became like my whole personality, which is kind

584
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 4: of cringe. But in college I was like part of

585
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 4: like our ad team and like went to nationals and like.

586
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: Created campaigns for like Wiener Schnitzel.

587
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 4: And like Adobe, which is so random, very class president energy,

588
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 4: but I just really fell in love with it. I

589
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 4: loved the fact that it mixed art and science, and

590
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 4: I loved the fact that it was just like it

591
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 4: was just cool, like you could do cool things and

592
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 4: create cool stuff and see it out in the world.

593
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 2: But they did not teach social media.

594
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 4: Like going back and looking at these campaigns I made,

595
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 4: they were like, yeah, we'll activate maybe on TikTok, but

596
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 4: social was like not there. I think what helped me

597
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 4: stand out is I was just I loved it as

598
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 4: a consumer, Like I was just on social and I

599
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 4: always scared about my grids and how things looked, and

600
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 4: that also, I think is kind of what set us

601
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 4: up for success here at Duo in the sense where

602
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 4: like I was kind of entering this job as like

603
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 4: someone who just loves social media and like looking deeper

604
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 4: into it versus like an advertiser who specializes in social media,

605
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 4: Like it allowed me to not work as an advertiser

606
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,439
Speaker 4: and generally they just work as like a creator, which

607
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 4: I think ultimately helped the brand because it allowed us

608
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 4: to not be so caught up on like advertising things.

609
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: I do think it's interesting how little you were taught

610
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: about social media in your marketing class and now you

611
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: are quite literally at the top of social media marketing

612
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: because it wasn't necessarily what you learned at school. What

613
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 1: was your relationship with the internet like growing up, What

614
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: was your sort of flavor of being online growing up?

615
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah?

616
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 4: So I mean I don't remember a life without an internet,

617
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 4: Like I feel like that's always been around me. And

618
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 4: then I think the funniest thing is I actually wasn't

619
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 4: allowed to have social media until I was a junior

620
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 4: in high school.

621
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: So did you secretly have it?

622
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 2: End? Absolutely yes.

623
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 4: So my favorite story is actually, when I was in

624
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 4: third grade, YouTube was like the big thing, right, and

625
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 4: so I actually got suspended for making a YouTube video

626
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 4: that accidentally went viral and it was yeah, and it

627
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 4: was about why students shouldn't be attending my strict Catholic school,

628
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 4: and like I was like it was like, so like

629
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 4: don't come here because a bit, but for some reason,

630
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 4: it like blew up and I got called to the

631
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 4: principal's office and I remember this so well, and she's like,

632
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 4: in my dad was there, and my dad my mom

633
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 4: and dad both works, and like I always went to

634
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 4: like after school things like if my dad's there in

635
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 4: the middle of the day, I'm like, I'm WoT. Yeah,

636
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 4: I saw him and I was like, oh, but he

637
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 4: wasn't like Matt, Like he was just sitting there neutral,

638
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 4: So like, okay, what's going on? And our principals like,

639
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 4: so we know you have a YouTube channel and I

640
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 4: was like, oh god, Like I was more worried about

641
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 4: her saying that my dad getting mad. And she's like,

642
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 4: you had this one video and I was like what

643
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 4: are you taught? And I was like and it was

644
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 4: like such a nothing video to me, and she was

645
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 4: like it under your name, Yeah, it was under the

646
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 4: Mega Freakable.

647
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:31,959
Speaker 2: That was my Like okay.

648
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 3: I was like what was the user?

649
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, And she was like we have like we're

650
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 4: trying to fundraise for like this new school and like

651
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 4: this has blown up and it's inappropriate because you're like

652
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 4: bashing the school and the program whatever. And she's like,

653
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 4: because of this, like we'll be giving you like a

654
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 4: one day suspension. And my dad was like we were

655
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,320
Speaker 4: just like okay, like it was really neutral, and I

656
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 4: was like, he's going to like give it to me

657
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 4: after we leave this meeting.

658
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 2: We walk out and he's like, well, at least you

659
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: get a Monday off. And I was like, what is

660
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 2: going on? Literally, and he was like he's like, he's like,

661
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: I saw it.

662
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 4: He's like, never make a YouTube video ever again and

663
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 4: delete your account, which happened, but he was like, I

664
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:10,919
Speaker 4: don't see any problem with it. He's like, I'm glad

665
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 4: for you. I'm glad that you used your voice. And

666
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 4: I'm like, great, thank you. Oh oh yeah, that's so great.

667
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: And that was in third grade.

668
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 4: So I think like for me, like Duo's personality of

669
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 4: like being unhinged, being out of pocket, like it's just

670
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 4: kind of my personality in a way of like I've

671
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 4: always probably said the wrong thing or did the wrong thing,

672
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 4: and like working for a brand that has that persona

673
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 4: made it really easy. But yeah, that was just kind

674
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 4: of my my relationship with social has just been like

675
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 4: I've always just been on it and used it and

676
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 4: loved it.

677
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: How does your relationship with social media kind of evolve

678
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 1: as you're growing up.

679
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: I loved it, like I was always on it.

680
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,439
Speaker 4: I cared about my Like getting my Instagram my junior

681
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 4: year was like the biggest thing ever. I was like,

682
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 4: oh my god, I finally have an account. Loved Twitter,

683
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 4: had had the classic like mean girl Twitter moment with

684
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 4: like you know, your middle school enemies and like all

685
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 4: of that stuff. Going on social was like every part,

686
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 4: Like that was what I did my free time. And

687
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 4: it's like, I mean obviously other activities too, but like

688
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 4: social was just always part of my life, like it

689
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 4: was never That's why it was like never nothing. So

690
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 4: like when I saw this, I was like, yeah, I

691
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 4: could do social for a brand, Like how hard can

692
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 4: it be? Like I know, like content basics, I know

693
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 4: marketing basics, Like how hard can it be to bring

694
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 4: the expertise that I know personally with professional work, which

695
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 4: is a little naive but maybe I needed.

696
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: That to have that confidence.

697
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: So Okay, so you get this job right out of college?

698
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I was in Portland, but then I moved

699
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 4: on my own because I just wanted to move to

700
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 4: Pittsburgh in August of twenty twenty, but our office didn't

701
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 4: open until September of twenty twenty one, when like we

702
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 4: had people coming in and that's actually when our like

703
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 4: TikTok really took off. So like I was doing like

704
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 4: so like quote unquote boring social work for Duo too

705
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 4: for a year, Like I was just figuring out like

706
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 4: what it even means to be working a nine to

707
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 4: five and what corporate life is.

708
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 1: How do people talk about duo online because I feel

709
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: like I've been seeing duo with the gun for years.

710
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 4: Yes, when we started the memes exist, we did not

711
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 4: acknowledge them. Like it was very like brand safety, we

712
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 4: can't say that we can't do that, or language learning

713
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 4: app that means we have to have proper punctuation because

714
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 4: people are gonna look.

715
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: To us blah blah blah.

716
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 4: Like it was very much that way, and I mean

717
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 4: I was Neil was like, yeah, you're right, Like who

718
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 4: am I to like change that? Like I'm just here

719
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 4: to clock and clock out create the content. So that's

720
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:19,720
Speaker 4: kind of how it started.

721
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: So that was that was like the policy at the time, Yeah,

722
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: like that's just what it was.

723
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 4: I also wasn't like we need to be doing this,

724
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 4: Like I didn't see it at that time because I

725
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 4: was still learning like just how to navigate it. I

726
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 4: think the switch kind of happened when that original like

727
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 4: learn Italian on TikTok and all that stuff started coming

728
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 4: out and it wasn't doing that well. And that was

729
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 4: like the first time we actually put like investment into

730
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 4: like a social platform, so like money and budget were

731
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 4: being put behind that, and they were like, yeah, we

732
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 4: need to cut this, like this is not worth our spend,

733
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 4: and it got to the point where I see I

734
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 4: was like TikTok's on a company priority, like we don't

735
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 4: into doing this. And I remember at that point kind

736
00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 4: of feeling like no, like TikTok still like works, We're

737
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 4: just doing it wrong. And I think even that was

738
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 4: like a year into my career where I was like

739
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 4: able to build more of a voice and build like

740
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 4: more of an understanding of our brand and like just

741
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 4: kind of absorb what it is to like work in

742
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 4: social And so then to my boss.

743
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 2: She stopped that.

744
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 4: We're like Okay, that's fine, Maybe that's just not the

745
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 4: way to go about it my boss. We got back

746
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 4: into the office and this was my first day actually

747
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 4: in the office during the pandemic, after the pandemic pandemic.

748
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 4: So I walk in and this suit is like in

749
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 4: this back corner and this suit is actually was first

750
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 4: made just for like hr like recruiting events, like just

751
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 4: kind of internal things. It was never posted ever on

752
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 4: any of our platforms. I was like, that's weird, Like

753
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 4: why is there just like an owl suit sitting by

754
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 4: the market. Like it looked weird, So we see it,

755
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 4: and I like by the time, like I was just

756
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 4: on social and I was like, oh, like there's like

757
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 4: this trend that's like how am I supposed to like live, laugh,

758
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,919
Speaker 4: love in these conditions? And I'm like I literally feel

759
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 4: like that right now, Like this is like staring at me.

760
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 4: I'm in marketing in like a corporate office, and it's

761
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 4: just like whatever. And I was taught telling my boss,

762
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:01,439
Speaker 4: I was like, gonna be funny if we like filmed

763
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 4: a TikTok of like me sitting here working and like

764
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 4: this owl looking at me being like how am I

765
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 4: supposed to live left love in these conditions?

766
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,919
Speaker 2: And she's like, yeah, that's funny. And I was like, oh, yeah,

767
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 2: that's funny. Can you actually film me?

768
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 4: And I think I have an idea here, and so

769
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 4: she's like sure, So she grabbed her phone and we

770
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 4: just put like the duo suit behind me and we

771
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 4: filmed it with that audio and we posted it and

772
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 4: it went stupid viral and that was like, wait a minute,

773
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 4: like there is something here with this suit and the comedy,

774
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 4: and like since that day, like five like four years ago,

775
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 4: like it's just been iterating and iterating and iterating on

776
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 4: that court insight that like that suit is just ridiculous

777
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,800
Speaker 4: and it's almost like a form of satire because marketing

778
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 4: was so fresh at Duelingo at that point, like we

779
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 4: didn't have these systems even in place to like get

780
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 4: marketing checks or like social checks and like we're an

781
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 4: engineering first org. Like respectfully, they didn't care about marketing

782
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 4: at that point, like we were not a priority team, like,

783
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 4: which is fine, Like that's just how it was.

784
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 2: That's how it was.

785
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,919
Speaker 4: But because there was it was a start up vibe

786
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 4: and no one really cared. We had free rein to

787
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 4: kind of just do whatever.

788
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: Seeing like the other sort of weird approaches to two

789
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: brands had you seen, like the Wendy's Twitter back in

790
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 1: the day, was the stuff you were familiar with? Was

791
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: was there any inspiration you were taking from past approaches?

792
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think, I mean I think everyone knew about

793
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 4: Wendy's Twitter, like obviously I think for me though, it

794
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 4: was never as an Internet person, I didn't care about

795
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 4: brand Twitter or like brand talk. I guess now is

796
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 4: what I like and like when I grew like that

797
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 4: was not who I was following, Like yeah, and I

798
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 4: would hear the couple of clapbacks from Wendy, It's like

799
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 4: that one's super viral, But it was never like, oh,

800
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 4: this is my source of inspiration. I think more of

801
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 4: what was my source of inspiration for social and how

802
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 4: I wanted to build duo on like TikTok particularly, was

803
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 4: the success the character has had on the app, and

804
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 4: like the funny sentences or like the things people are

805
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 4: already sharing. And I actually think a lot of brands

806
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 4: do have memes already made about them. They're just scartlean and.

807
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 2: Like we were.

808
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 4: But like my whole thing was like okay, like we've

809
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 4: had a couple of Twitter moments that community has made,

810
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 4: like do it with a gun, like how do I

811
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 4: bring that to life on TikTok, Like that was my

812
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 4: job was translating that. So I think my inspiration was

813
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 4: actually more of like how our designers and product team

814
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 4: and content team built our app to be like naturally

815
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 4: gamified and interesting and getting people like make fan art

816
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 4: about it, or like getting people to like talk about

817
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 4: the different dynamics of the characters, like there's something there

818
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 4: if like people are organically talking about a brand, because

819
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 4: no one really does that on social, like at least

820
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 4: I still don't. I mean, I do a little bit

821
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 4: for my job outside of that, Like I feel like

822
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 4: if I didn't work in marketing, I probably would not

823
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 4: care about brands on social. So that was really cool

824
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 4: to me that people were they cared about this brand

825
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 4: for some reason.

826
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: When you start getting kind of like a longer leash

827
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: to try weirder stuff, it seems like the whole office

828
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: is on board and is like regularly cast and stuff.

829
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I always say that, Like the number one

830
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 4: person that believe me was obviously my boss who filmed

831
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 4: the first video, and then Mark Pavoc, who wore the

832
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 4: duo suit for me.

833
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so is it the is it the same guy.

834
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 4: It changes now now that our team's grown and evolved.

835
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 4: We like higher dancers and stuff because Mark does have

836
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 4: a full time job at due Lingo.

837
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 2: That's not doing that before everything blew up.

838
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 4: Or I was like I had these ideas, but like

839
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 4: no one wants to film with me, Like can you

840
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 4: because I just know you, like from just working.

841
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 2: Together, and he was like, yeah, of course, I don't know.

842
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 4: I feel like I literally owe my career to him,

843
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 4: and like MICHAELA who was my first boss, because they

844
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 4: believed in me and they did it. And then the

845
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 4: video started popping off and doing well. And the other

846
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 4: person that really believed in me was our legal uh

847
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 4: legal Steve was like I love what you're doing on TikTok,

848
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 4: Like here's some trends I see, or here's some things

849
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 4: we can do, or like how do we make this

850
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 4: like streamline? So it wasn't like I think that's what's

851
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 4: special about duos because it was so small and startupy.

852
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 4: It never had these like social versus legal or social

853
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 4: versus like. It was never that energy and because we

854
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 4: started off so viral early on, we've kind of just

855
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:57,080
Speaker 4: kept that.

856
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 2: Energy to never exists because we never knew a world

857
00:49:59,400 --> 00:49:59,959
Speaker 2: where that exis.

858
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:03,720
Speaker 1: Does the staff their skew younger generally?

859
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean yeah, we definitely do have some like

860
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 4: more seasoned marketing people, but they're very like we hired

861
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 4: a sow like because I was the only social coordinator

862
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 4: at the time, Like, we hired you because we know

863
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 4: we're bad at this and we need to be better

864
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 4: at it, so please do it. Like that was the mentality.

865
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 4: And then as I hired my team out, I think

866
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 4: I'm the eldest, and I'm like it's crazy because I'm

867
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 4: still used being the youngest, but like I was youngest

868
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 4: on the team and now I'm twenty seven, and like

869
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 4: our team spans from like twenty one to twenty four,

870
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 4: so like it's a very young team. But we also

871
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 4: have like like millennials as well on our team that

872
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 4: like help us with like other things. So it's like

873
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 4: we kind of just all use our assets as like

874
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 4: across age ranges. I actually really need, like my role

875
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 4: managers like expertise and like how do you navigate a

876
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 4: strategy and sell it? Like how do you show that

877
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 4: like the impact I have actually matters? It's like that's important,

878
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 4: right then I also need like the twenty year old

879
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 4: on my team of like what does what does Jen

880
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 4: alpha in doo now? Because like I'm not gen Alpha

881
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 4: and like to help bring that to life. So I

882
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 4: think everyone just plays their part in a really different way.

883
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 4: So as you know, I love writing, so I always

884
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 4: believe that, like, yes, humans were natural storytellers, and like

885
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 4: that is what brands want to do. But we're so

886
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 4: obsessed with telling our own story that we're not listening

887
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 4: I guess to the stories that like other people are saying,

888
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 4: which sounds like so like bad da, but like other stories,

889
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 4: like people are puttingduo with a gun, Like that's a

890
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 4: story too, all right, So like for me, it's like yeah, exactly,

891
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 4: And I think that for me was like how do

892
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:34,319
Speaker 4: I build almost a sitcom around this character and show

893
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 4: these different storylines? And like we all have the tropes, right,

894
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 4: Like there's the lover, there's the enemy, there's the like

895
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 4: hero's journey, there's the struggle, there's the things they love,

896
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 4: the things they hate, and like why can't brands have that,

897
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 4: especially when you have a character involved, Like yeah, like

898
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 4: I'm going to do it, and the only way to

899
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 4: do it is to just keep exposing the audience to it,

900
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 4: so like that was like where du Alipa came from,

901
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 4: and the insight is just like Duelingo just sounds like

902
00:51:58,760 --> 00:51:59,720
Speaker 4: du Alipa, So we're.

903
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 1: Like dumb people are saying that anyways.

904
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and she's hot, so we're like perfect, that's

905
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 4: who Like Duo is going to be upset, like that's

906
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 4: his love interest or like just kind of integrating the

907
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:11,760
Speaker 4: way that we know how to tell stories as humans

908
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 4: or the stories that we enjoy and just finding the

909
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 4: pieces that need to be filled and figuring out who

910
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 4: those are was like, I think kind of how we

911
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 4: built our strategy around it.

912
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: And has there been any sort of pitch that you've

913
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 1: experienced pushback on?

914
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 2: Oh all the time.

915
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 4: Actually, Like the scrub Daddy video, our CEO messaged me

916
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 4: to take it down, but it already I was like,

917
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 4: it already made us around striking, I'll take it down.

918
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,359
Speaker 1: Is the original not of because I remember it's not yea,

919
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: I guess the different one.

920
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 3: So okay.

921
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 2: The story around this was.

922
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,600
Speaker 4: Something I was trying to do at that stage in

923
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 4: my career, was like, how do I find more like

924
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 4: minded like brands and social teams to like kind of

925
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 4: amplify our presence, like as just being content creators. And

926
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 4: the scrub Daddy team was a team that I really

927
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 4: looked up to. They made really funny content and it

928
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 4: literally was just like, hey, guys, do you guys want

929
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 4: to do like a free content club, Like we'll bring

930
00:52:57,760 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 4: the duo suit, you bring the scrib Daddy suit, come

931
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 4: to the office, we'll create stuff.

932
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 2: We're like, all right, this is like what we want

933
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 2: to do.

934
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:04,919
Speaker 4: And then they were like, oh, we created these cute

935
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 4: little duo sponges and I was like, oh, that's are

936
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 4: cute babies.

937
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 2: And that was kind of it.

938
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 4: And we were creating content and I was like, guys,

939
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 4: what if like I've been seeing this like pregnancy like

940
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 4: TikTok going off. I don't know, Like it was so crazy,

941
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 4: very tradwife kind of stuff, and I was like, what

942
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 4: if we use this glad you came with this video

943
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 4: and they were like, yeah, yeah, why not. So we

944
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 4: like filmed it, we put it up, we posted it,

945
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 4: and it blew up, and I think, like for us,

946
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 4: and this is actually also in a sense happened with

947
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 4: the Dead Duo.

948
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 2: We kind of forget like how attached people are.

949
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 4: To duo that like we're so lost in the sauce

950
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 4: sometimes that we're like, yeah, we'll posted an ogle viral.

951
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 4: Well I guess like maybe I won't even go that

952
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,439
Speaker 4: far or maybe maybe a million views, And then people

953
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 4: were like no, no, no, we like this, and now

954
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 4: it's like lore. When we posted that, it stayed up

955
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:52,720
Speaker 4: for like four hours and our c I was like, guys,

956
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 4: we cannot be doing this. And I was like, okay, great,

957
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 4: I'll take it down. However, what do you not like

958
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 4: about it? He's like the visuals weird, but like he's like,

959
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 4: more than that, the glad you came makes it like

960
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 4: really weird. So I was like, okay, what if I

961
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,439
Speaker 4: repost it, but just don't add that part to the top,

962
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 4: like the glad you came and change the audio And

963
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 4: he's like, okay, fine. Like it's always a negotiation for

964
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 4: like these high risk moments, and it's never a like

965
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 4: take it down, you're in trouble. How dare you do

966
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 4: this to our brand? Like it's not punishment. It's like

967
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 4: we're iterating and learning, and the only way you know

968
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 4: where the line is until you cross it on social

969
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 4: because social changes every day. Honestly, like the people that

970
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 4: are most upset about duo things or marketers like usually

971
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 4: are And that's where we were like, well, who are

972
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 4: we prioritizing, Like if we see this negative sentiment going up,

973
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 4: like who's driving this? And ninety percent of the time

974
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 4: it's someone who works in marketing that's just like upset

975
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 4: about us not having the clear brand guidelines and strategy

976
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 4: and things that we've all learned to do, while our

977
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 4: audience is like, we love it and we're getting new users,

978
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 4: so I'm like, our priority is always going to be

979
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 4: our new users and new business while like obviously like

980
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 4: we love marketers and want them to enjoy what we're doing.

981
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 2: But like when we.

982
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 4: Prioritize, like how we assess risk, its goal is going

983
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 4: to have like our users first. I think what was

984
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 4: cool is like we have how did you hear about

985
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 4: a survey which before just existed as an onboarding survey

986
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 4: when you joined, and it would say like did you

987
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:16,320
Speaker 4: learn about.

988
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:17,879
Speaker 2: Us from friends, from family, from Google? Whatever?

989
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 4: And as our TikTok started blowing up, we were like,

990
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 4: what if we just add TikTok to that and see

991
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,400
Speaker 4: like who knows? Because at the time we were like impressions,

992
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 4: great brand awareness done, and then it was like maybe

993
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 4: there is a tie, and then we just added TikTok

994
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 4: and every time we had a viral video, like a

995
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 4: video over a million views, bam, a spike any users, bam.

996
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,719
Speaker 4: It would keep like we would keep seeing it. And

997
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 4: then that's also when a sl team senior leadership was

998
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 4: like let them cook. And that's literally what it's been like,

999
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:48,800
Speaker 4: which is so awesome. And I think the origin stories

1000
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 4: of how we almost worked backwards like has worked out well.

1001
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,359
Speaker 4: And now it's funny because you'll see like SLT pitch ideas.

1002
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 2: To us and they're like will they accept it?

1003
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 4: Like will they green light it, which is like different

1004
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 4: than like a lot of social teams where they're hoping

1005
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,879
Speaker 4: that like their senior leadership like allows them to post

1006
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 4: what they want to post.

1007
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: Right, you have the power, Yeah, exactly, And we'll be

1008
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: right back with more. Zaria Parvez and Horny Little Owl.

1009
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: Welcome back to sixteenth minute. I'm in the middle of

1010
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 1: reading that new tell All memoir about working high up

1011
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: at Facebook, and guys, I think this Mark Zuckerberg guy

1012
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 1: might be kind of a bad fella. Mark.

1013
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 3: He's wired in Sorry, he's wired in? Yes, about now

1014
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 3: you're still wired in?

1015
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 1: Where's the rest of my interview with Zaria Parvez.

1016
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,479
Speaker 4: A big part of my like what I've been working

1017
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 4: on honestly, like this past half and like this year

1018
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 4: is evolving our brand and what does that look like.

1019
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,240
Speaker 2: So we actually started like a writer's room.

1020
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 4: Where I brought in people who were like I've always

1021
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 4: enjoyed their work, love them, think they're smart, and they

1022
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 4: have no care about dueling. Go like, let like come

1023
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:12,919
Speaker 4: in and like just tell me, like how you would

1024
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 4: like how would you advertise due lingo music? And like

1025
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,919
Speaker 4: I gave pretty much gave them no context, barely any

1026
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 4: brief just to see what they would come out with. Glean,

1027
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 4: I like, never want unhinged to just be like our crutch.

1028
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 4: So I like, for me, it's like we should be

1029
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 4: unhinged to be funny, Like it shouldn't just be like

1030
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 4: showing duos, but just to get engagement, Like it needs

1031
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,040
Speaker 4: to have like a reason why we're being unhinged, because

1032
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 4: that makes it that just makes a joke smarter and funnier.

1033
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 4: WHOA like you guys just put duos but on national

1034
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 4: TV like as brands as we try to strategize everything

1035
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 4: so much, and like humans don't think in strategy, Like

1036
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 4: some of these things are serendipitous and good moments. And

1037
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 4: like I always say, it was like seventy five percent

1038
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 4: luck honestly that it took off, and then like, what's

1039
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 4: seventy five was twenty Yeah, twenty five. I'm like, we're

1040
00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 4: a good one hundred and then twenty five.

1041
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: Percent of like just into marketing I know, right well,

1042
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: I was like I need to do go math, but.

1043
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 4: Like twenty five percent of just like us optimizing it

1044
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 4: and like leaning in and like taking advantage of the

1045
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 4: moment because it's so sad when I see like something

1046
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 4: viral that a brand can let land, like you know,

1047
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 4: lean into and they don't, And I'm like, just take

1048
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 4: advantage of it.

1049
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that.

1050
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:21,600
Speaker 4: That's the cool part about it is we were allowed

1051
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 4: to take advantage of that moment.

1052
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 1: So how did dead duo so but that that sounded

1053
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: like a sort of a full company collaboration.

1054
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, So essentially what happened was, as I mentioned a

1055
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 4: little bit earlier, every maybe like four months, the product

1056
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,959
Speaker 4: team does an app icon change where the normal duo

1057
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 4: green owl on your phone changes to a different emotion

1058
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 4: or something just something different, And the whole point is

1059
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:48,920
Speaker 4: for you to be on your phone and you're so

1060
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 4: used to seeing that green bird and all of a sudden,

1061
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 4: like it's sick and there's like a big booger coming

1062
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 4: out and you're like, ea, what is that? And that

1063
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 4: resurrects new users. Something we realized though, is like when

1064
00:58:58,160 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 4: it's an emotion, like we did it with sick, do

1065
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:01,920
Speaker 4: we did it with like a wrinkly face like old

1066
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 4: looking duo that when it has a user emotion or something,

1067
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 4: people talk a lot about it on social. Then we

1068
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 4: were like, Okay, this works well when social works with product.

1069
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 4: Next time around, let's build another campaign and again maybe

1070
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 4: it'll do well like whatever. And what happened is product

1071
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 4: ab tests two things. So they had a debt duo

1072
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 4: and I think they had like a crying duo. They

1073
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 4: both kind of came out the same like marketing like,

1074
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 4: since you already kind of did a campaign before, what

1075
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 4: do you want to do?

1076
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 2: Like for us, it's kind of the same.

1077
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 4: And I was like, I think we should do debt

1078
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 4: duo because it's an emotion, like people can react and

1079
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 4: relate to it. And then they'll probably post about it

1080
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 4: and we can actually build a storyline around. And originally

1081
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 4: it was just supposed to be four posts. He died,

1082
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,280
Speaker 4: we announce his death, show the funeral cause of death,

1083
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 4: then we resurrect him and that and the whole brand

1084
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 4: messaging behind that was to be like Duo would fake

1085
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 4: his own death just for you to do your lesson,

1086
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 4: Like there's nothing this bird won't do for you to

1087
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 4: just open your damn phone.

1088
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:03,439
Speaker 2: So we posted this fake pr state and it blew up, like, Yeah,

1089
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 2: virality beyond I've ever seen.

1090
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 4: And I think being in Pittsburgh, you're kind of in

1091
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 4: your own little like bubble because you're not in New York,

1092
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 4: you're not on LA, you're not in these big cities.

1093
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 4: When we were like, oh, we were going to post

1094
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 4: just like the funeral video tomorrow, but we should post

1095
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 4: it now like people want answers, And so then we

1096
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 4: post the funeral video and then we're like, wait, what

1097
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 4: if we like also kill the other characters and like

1098
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 4: say they're also debt, and like that's like how it

1099
01:00:24,120 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 4: kind of kept building, like the narrative, like these posts

1100
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 4: sort of entering that weren't part of our original social

1101
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 4: plan and we're like, oh, dang, we really did build

1102
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 4: an icon and we killed him and people cared, and

1103
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 4: I think for us that was a realization moment too.

1104
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 2: Of like what did we just do?

1105
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 4: And so like that was that was really fun and

1106
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,120
Speaker 4: we've just we got to work with different team members

1107
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 4: to just bring it to life in different ways, and

1108
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 4: it was it was such a joy.

1109
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 2: It was like one of my highlights of my career

1110
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 2: for sure.

1111
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: Part of the reason you went to do Olingo is

1112
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: because it was a company that aligned with your values,

1113
01:00:55,800 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: which I know, when we're talking about marketing and advertising general,

1114
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 1: that is a mine field to find a place that

1115
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: you feel good about. Yeah, and now, just having been

1116
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: in advertising your entire professional life, what are your feelings

1117
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 1: on that? How have you seen that sort of manifest

1118
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: in other areas of this industry.

1119
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 4: So I was able to internet the advertising agency my

1120
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 4: junior year summer. I think the first reaction I had

1121
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 4: was like, oh, it's like really white and like I

1122
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 4: grew up like very proudly Pakistani, very proudly Muslim. Like

1123
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 4: it was just such a different lifestyle, I think, and

1124
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 4: it was really weird to like walk into a space

1125
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 4: where like new York City's one of the most diverse

1126
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 4: cities right ever in the world, and then you just

1127
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 4: walk in and you're like, there's literally no one that

1128
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 4: looks like me. And I think that's also like candidly,

1129
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 4: a lot of Muslims also don't enter communications fields because

1130
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 4: naturally most of us tend to be kids of immigrants,

1131
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 4: and immigrants care about sciences and arts and not arts, sorry,

1132
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 4: not art, but like sciences and math, and so like

1133
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 4: a lot of people come engineers and doctors, and like

1134
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 4: we don't enter communications fields. And then we ask, hey,

1135
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 4: like why are Muslims being like badly represented in media,

1136
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 4: and like because none of us are there, Like we're

1137
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 4: not prioritizing like being in these spaces, and that's going

1138
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 4: to have ramifications. And so for me, like that was

1139
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 4: kind of a big wake up call during like this

1140
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 4: experience and like nothing like happened.

1141
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 2: It just felt weird.

1142
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 4: And my entire thesis in college that I was writing

1143
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 4: for graduation was actually about like a playbook of how

1144
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 4: to advertise to Muslims and communicate with Muslims and.

1145
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 2: Like what does that look like?

1146
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 4: So part of that playbook was like all about like

1147
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 4: diversity marketing, in a sense and like what's the right

1148
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:45,440
Speaker 4: appropriate way to go about it?

1149
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 2: But also like a part of us.

1150
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 4: Like exploring like who are like the five Muslims in

1151
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 4: marketing because I can barely find any and interviewing them,

1152
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 4: being like how did you end up here?

1153
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 2: And like what is the situation?

1154
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 4: And like now in my five years, I've seen it

1155
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 4: grow and expand and I'm so glad to see that

1156
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 4: there's more diversity there. But like it was just a

1157
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 4: really interesting wake up call for me where I was like,

1158
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 4: I I feel happy and most creative in places that

1159
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:11,080
Speaker 4: I feel safe, and so like that's where kind of

1160
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 4: how do lingo fit into the narrative? Where I was like,

1161
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 4: this seems like a company that has to be inherently

1162
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,120
Speaker 4: diverse because you need people to speak different languages and

1163
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 4: usually people who speak different languages come from different parts

1164
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 4: of the world and have to be part of this mission.

1165
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 4: And then the co founders themselves are both immigrants. So

1166
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 4: it was just like so many levels of oh, this

1167
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:32,439
Speaker 4: makes sense, And like I remember when I accepted the job,

1168
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 4: doing marketing was not anything, and I remember like I

1169
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 4: was a top performer at University of Oregon. It was

1170
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 4: like You're gonna go to Nike, you and know Addin

1171
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 4: Kennedy and do all this stuff. And I remember accepting

1172
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 4: it and somebody like straight up being like that was

1173
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 4: the biggest mistake you've ever done, Like you should not,

1174
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:47,360
Speaker 4: Like why are you doing that?

1175
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 2: Like why do you give up an agency?

1176
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 4: Like because I had an agency offer at the time,

1177
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 4: and it was like a whole thing, and I was

1178
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 4: like stressed, Like I was like, did I just like

1179
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 4: throw in my career?

1180
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 2: Like I don't even know what I'm doing.

1181
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:01,280
Speaker 4: But I just something in my gut just felt safe there,

1182
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 4: Like talking to the people in the interview process, I

1183
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 4: was like, this is just what I want to do,

1184
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 4: and I'm just going to try it and do it.

1185
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 4: And it worked out that safety feeling also working in

1186
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 4: a place where you just feel comfortable, like I was

1187
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 4: allowed to be myself, which means I was allowed to

1188
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 4: be unhinged and weird, which means I was allowed to

1189
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 4: post these things. Like it creates an environment of like

1190
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,280
Speaker 4: safety and creativity and like bringing in different ways of

1191
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 4: thinking and like I always say, like being an immigrant kid,

1192
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 4: like I was a third culture kid. I knew how

1193
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 4: to like be wide enough for my white friends at

1194
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 4: school and be broad enough for my parents at home,

1195
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 4: and like navigate literally jumping between different audiences and different

1196
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 4: groups and different people. And that's what you have to

1197
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:40,920
Speaker 4: do in marketing. You have to know how to talk

1198
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 4: to different people in their own language. So like third

1199
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 4: culture kids are like set up for this, they just

1200
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 4: need this space and the opportunity to do it. So

1201
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 4: like that's also why I think Dueling Go is so successful,

1202
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:55,800
Speaker 4: because we focused on that third culture energy in that space,

1203
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 4: and like sometimes you'll still see like Tiktoks and Earth

1204
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 4: that were reaching a new audience. It's still viral because

1205
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 4: it's like stuff that I know, or like I'm really

1206
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 4: intentional about our team, Like I want our team to

1207
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 4: be as diverse as possible, and like we have people

1208
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 4: from all walks of life, all backgrounds. No one on

1209
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 4: my content team actually as a traditional marketing background, or

1210
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 4: if they do, it's like very lightly touched.

1211
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 2: Our production assistant, for example, saw.

1212
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 4: Her volunteering somewhere and I was like, I just like

1213
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 4: the way you work with like the systems of the

1214
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 4: people here.

1215
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 2: I think you could be a great PA. Would you

1216
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 2: like to like join?

1217
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 4: So like she does that, which is like crazy, even

1218
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 4: like our content designer she got rejected from douling Go

1219
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 4: from douling Goo's illustration and design team, and I was like, cool,

1220
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 4: I'll take you, and like it was like stuff like

1221
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 4: that where it's just like I love the underdogs because

1222
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 4: I think those stories are like the people who try

1223
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 4: the hardest, who want to do the best and just

1224
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 4: never got the opportunity to do it for me, Like

1225
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 4: even brands that like because I'm so part of gen

1226
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 4: Z and like brands that I like, I'm actually not

1227
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 4: a brand talk person in general, Like I'm like, I

1228
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 4: work on this, I don't want to see it outside

1229
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 4: of it. But like any brands that I do fallow

1230
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 4: where like either I really care about their founders ethos

1231
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 4: or like you know, it's just more like there's some

1232
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 4: responsibility or accountability there that feels like they care and

1233
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 4: you can't about it and people can see right through

1234
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 4: it when it's not the.

1235
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 1: Last thing I wanted to talk about burnout and protecting yourself. Yes,

1236
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 1: how do you've managed that? And I know that no

1237
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 1: one has the answer, but I'm curious how you've had

1238
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 1: to sort of manage that throughout your career.

1239
01:06:21,600 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so for me. I.

1240
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 4: I am so grateful that I was able to skyrocket

1241
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,480
Speaker 4: to so much success so early on. Like I remember

1242
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 4: when I got four of thirty or thirty at like

1243
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 4: twenty two years old. I was like, whoa, I'm not

1244
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 4: just saying that to be like eh, eh, include, you

1245
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 4: know what I mean, but like it was just.

1246
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 2: It felt really surreal.

1247
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 4: But the drawback of that was like I don't think

1248
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 4: I got the opportunity to make mistakes because every mistake

1249
01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 4: I made was in public, and I don't think it's

1250
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 4: anyone's fault, Like it like it's not like, oh, do

1251
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 4: overwork to me or like I did this, Like it

1252
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:58,720
Speaker 4: was just the reality of this situation, and like, I'm

1253
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 4: glad I took ownership of the world. I'm glad I

1254
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 4: stood up and said, hey, that was me that created it.

1255
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 4: But at the same time, like that created this mental

1256
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 4: load on myself to the point where I actually took

1257
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 4: a medical leave last year for like five months of

1258
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 4: just like sorry, not five months, five weeks.

1259
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:13,959
Speaker 2: I wish it was five months.

1260
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 4: And I remember telling my boss. I was like, I'm

1261
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 4: like not well, like I feel anxious coming into the office.

1262
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 4: I'm scared of something flopping I'm scared of like what

1263
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 4: people will say about me, Like I don't want my

1264
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:27,520
Speaker 4: face being seen anywhere I get exactly like and that's

1265
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 4: not me. Like I feel very fortunate my entire life.

1266
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 4: I've never actually had like crazy, any like mental health issues,

1267
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 4: and I was happy with like who I was and

1268
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 4: what I wanted to do. And I was like, I'm

1269
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:40,920
Speaker 4: just burnt out and I just need time away from

1270
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 4: the spotlight, Like I just need a break to reset

1271
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 4: and recharge. And I'm lucky I'm at a place that

1272
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 4: like allowed that and supported that, and like everyone knew.

1273
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:50,800
Speaker 4: I wrote about it too, like I said, I loved writing.

1274
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 4: I wrote about it on my LinkedIn and I shared it,

1275
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 4: and it was it was one of those things where

1276
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:58,040
Speaker 4: like as social managers, like we're always expected to wear

1277
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 4: so many hats that like at some point that's get

1278
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 4: heavy and it's like I can't, I can't do this.

1279
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 4: I came back and I remember my biggest thing was

1280
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,440
Speaker 4: like I just never I never want to feel burnout,

1281
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 4: and I never want to make other people feel burnout

1282
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 4: around me, especially my team after going through what I

1283
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,040
Speaker 4: went through. And I think what I really hang on too,

1284
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 4: is like creativity ebbs and flows, and like we need

1285
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 4: to be mindful of that. If if you want impact,

1286
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 4: you have to have those moments of like ebbs. You

1287
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 4: have to be okay with, like not posting stuff for

1288
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:30,600
Speaker 4: a couple of weeks. You have to be okay with

1289
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 4: like people saying I need time off, or hey I

1290
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 4: need to work leave work early, or hey, I need

1291
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 4: to work from home today, Like this is overwhelming, Like

1292
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 4: that needs to be okay and like accepted in part

1293
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 4: of your strategy and part of your team structure. So no,

1294
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:45,680
Speaker 4: I don't have a cure to burn out, but I

1295
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 4: think for me, that's what I really try to do

1296
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 4: of like, I am very aware of it, and I

1297
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,960
Speaker 4: just try to find moments of like I never want

1298
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 4: you to feel like all you are to meies like

1299
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 4: an impression generator, Like feel creative when you feel creative,

1300
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:00,560
Speaker 4: and let's figure out how you can work at it.

1301
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 4: That's kind of how I've been approaching it. I don't

1302
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:03,639
Speaker 4: know if it's the right way or the wrong way,

1303
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,080
Speaker 4: but it's working relatively. So some quarters are going to

1304
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:09,560
Speaker 4: be great and some aren't. And like, not everyone is

1305
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 4: meant to go viral, and if they were, then like

1306
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 4: virality wouldn't exist like, that's just part of the cycle

1307
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,600
Speaker 4: of the Internet and life. So as more gen z

1308
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 4: become role managers who have been through the ringer like

1309
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 4: how they act and behave and hopefully prevent burnout.

1310
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 1: Thank you so much again, Tazaria for her time and

1311
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 1: her work. I want her to be a comedy writer

1312
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,759
Speaker 1: so bad. Follow her at the links in the description.

1313
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:37,599
Speaker 1: And with that, dear listener, we emerge from the sacred

1314
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:42,519
Speaker 1: wood of sentient brand marketing on social media. And where

1315
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 1: does this leave us? I don't know, honestly. Well, I'm

1316
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: very grateful to the marketing professionals and just kind people

1317
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 1: who lent their time and experience to make this series possible.

1318
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 1: It still does give me some uneasy about the future

1319
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:05,000
Speaker 1: of what marketing is going to look like on the Internet,

1320
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,959
Speaker 1: and as some listeners were right to point out, representing

1321
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: a company online that is very often cloud chasing on

1322
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:16,599
Speaker 1: Internet trends can lead and often does lead to something

1323
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:20,559
Speaker 1: called digital blackface, which is defined by CNN's John Blake

1324
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:24,160
Speaker 1: as quote a practice where white people co opt online

1325
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:28,759
Speaker 1: expressions of black imagery, slang, catchphrases, or culture to convey

1326
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 1: comic relief or express emotions unquote, although I would say

1327
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 1: in the case of this discussion, as there are obviously

1328
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 1: non white people in corporate marketing, although Aszaria pointed out,

1329
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 1: this itself is still a very white dominated space. That

1330
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 1: digital blackface has been used as a way for companies

1331
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:50,560
Speaker 1: to seem as if they're a part of the mainstream

1332
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:55,320
Speaker 1: Internet culture that, like so many creative worlds, has been

1333
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 1: innovated by black artists and creators before having that work

1334
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:03,759
Speaker 1: co op did by white people, or just capitalism in general.

1335
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,640
Speaker 1: Jen Alpha is the first generation to truly have no

1336
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,880
Speaker 1: memory of what it's like to build a sense of

1337
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 1: self free from the Internet, and it remains to be

1338
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 1: seen what that's going to mean down the line. Because

1339
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,640
Speaker 1: I don't mean to fear monger, I genuinely don't know.

1340
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 1: These will be my kids, my nieces, my nephews. And

1341
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:28,080
Speaker 1: the only thing I think you can do that's more

1342
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: unproductive and self sabotaging than assume your children's generation is

1343
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:37,479
Speaker 1: going to ruin the world is that your children's generation

1344
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:42,559
Speaker 1: is solely responsible for saving the world. It does freak

1345
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:45,760
Speaker 1: me out that kids are more vulnerable than ever to

1346
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:49,240
Speaker 1: this kind of advertising, and it's a relief when that

1347
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:54,799
Speaker 1: advertising is for something as innocuous as learning a second language.

1348
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:59,400
Speaker 1: But in the big picture, it's hard to say. I

1349
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 1: have plenty of young parents in my family and friend

1350
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:05,559
Speaker 1: groups who are trying to shield their kids from pernicious marketing.

1351
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:08,240
Speaker 1: But let's be honest, we're not going to be any

1352
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 1: more successful than our parents were. Think of virtually every

1353
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 1: social media manager you've heard from in this series. Serenity

1354
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 1: Disco found themselves on live journaling sites before becoming the

1355
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 1: Denny's tumbler. Amy Brown was Amy from MySpace before becoming

1356
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:28,919
Speaker 1: the Wendy's Twitter. Nathan Alibach was an anti capitalist musician

1357
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 1: before translating that ethos to the stake of Twitter. Zaria

1358
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 1: Parvez was the kid that was scolded out of taking

1359
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 1: down a Catholic school in the third grade before becoming

1360
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 1: the horny due Lingo bird. As long as there are

1361
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:49,719
Speaker 1: creative kids, they're going to get around what their parents

1362
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 1: don't want them to access. And all of these social

1363
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 1: media managers and writers are talented, funny, creative people who

1364
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:00,360
Speaker 1: have had to make a living. I think a little

1365
01:13:00,360 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 1: bit too easy to criticize this class of writer before

1366
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 1: considering how lucky or more often financially privileged. You need

1367
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 1: to be just to be able to write without worrying

1368
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:16,240
Speaker 1: where your next rent check is coming from, your healthcare,

1369
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:20,719
Speaker 1: whatever it may be. Most of us are serving a machine,

1370
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: and to be able to extract yourself from that is

1371
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 1: a tremendous privilege. But that also doesn't mean that it's

1372
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 1: the only way to make ends meet. And I feel,

1373
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:34,560
Speaker 1: to some extent like I'm blowing hot air here. I

1374
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:38,679
Speaker 1: probably am because I'm broadcasting this on iHeartRadio. And while

1375
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 1: I've been really lucky to have basically full creative control

1376
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 1: of my work here, it's because it's monetized to serve

1377
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 1: something larger than myself. So I'm certainly not above this,

1378
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 1: and any criticism of this environment is a criticism of

1379
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 1: myself too. The only conclusion I can ever come to

1380
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 1: is that what would resolve this kind of creativity having

1381
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:05,560
Speaker 1: to be used to sell something is a public reinvestment

1382
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 1: into arts and affirming it as something that's important, which

1383
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:14,080
Speaker 1: under the current American administration. Best of luck, but we

1384
01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:18,360
Speaker 1: should keep talking about it. This weirdly tapers into what

1385
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about next week, and so

1386
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:25,640
Speaker 1: with a little luck and a little bit of revolutionary

1387
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 1: action Sentient two Horny Brands. Your sixteenth Minute ends Now.

1388
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 1: Sixteenth Minute is a production of Cool Zone Media and

1389
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 1: iHeart Radios. It is written, posted, and produced by me Jamielrossis.

1390
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,519
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Sophie Lichtman and Robert Evans. The

1391
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:51,519
Speaker 1: Amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and our editor.

1392
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:55,920
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Sad thirteen. Voice acting is

1393
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:59,880
Speaker 1: from Brant Crater and Pet. Shoutouts to our dog producer Anderson,

1394
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:03,040
Speaker 1: my cats fleeing Casper and my pet rock Bird will

1395
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:04,599
Speaker 1: outlive us all. Bye.