1
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,960
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anie and Samantha and welcome to stuff

2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,800
Speaker 1: I've never told you production of I heart rate here.

3
00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,200
Speaker 1: It is time for another feminist movie. Friday July Edition.

4
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,159
Speaker 1: This is kind of an outdoorsy movie. Yeah, I guess so,

5
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,440
Speaker 1: I don't know it would be want to be in

6
00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,640
Speaker 1: like a cave during this time. I guess it's colder.

7
00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,519
Speaker 1: Maybe have you ever gone caving? I have not. Wait, no,

8
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 1: I have not. I have gone down through caves one

9
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,159
Speaker 1: of those like really big nice caves where they use

10
00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,960
Speaker 1: it for music or show, which is one of the

11
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,199
Speaker 1: things they're making fun of in this movie. Yes, as

12
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,120
Speaker 1: they should. It's also good like I have a good

13
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,880
Speaker 1: friends who are part of that world. And when I

14
00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 1: whenever I said splunking, they got really mad at me,

15
00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,000
Speaker 1: getting mad at me. Oh I see, yes, I too

16
00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,360
Speaker 1: have never like gone caving in this sense. I've gone

17
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,800
Speaker 1: blackwater rafting, which is when you go white basically rafting

18
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,720
Speaker 1: through a cave. And then I've gone in. I've gone

19
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 1: into caves that aren't I mean, they were touristy, but

20
00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,720
Speaker 1: you did have to crawl and maybe like maneuver, but

21
00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 1: it wasn't like I didn't use a rope or that

22
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,280
Speaker 1: there was nothing like that that I've never done, and

23
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,160
Speaker 1: I lay down. I think we've talked about this before.

24
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I've done the very embarrassing thing they make

25
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,400
Speaker 1: you do in elementary school. We have to climb up

26
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:38,440
Speaker 1: that wall and everyone's watching you. Oh yeah, I did

27
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 1: not do well with those. It's so embarrassing. And there's

28
00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,679
Speaker 1: that moment where everyone, it feels like everyone including you,

29
00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,080
Speaker 1: knows you're not going to make it any further, but

30
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,160
Speaker 1: no one's willing to say right and not. Your body

31
00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,880
Speaker 1: is hardening, as well as getting the worst weggie ever.

32
00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,480
Speaker 1: So embarrassed and everything. Yeah, and everything's really heightened because

33
00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,160
Speaker 1: this is tightened up. I'll crotch and there's bun is

34
00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,600
Speaker 1: everywhere you all right, I don't know. I did go

35
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 1: on a date to your rock climbing place once and

36
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 1: the metal piece hit me in the head and it

37
00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 1: was really it's really awkward because I felt so bad

38
00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,240
Speaker 1: about it and I was like, this is just it's fine.

39
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,480
Speaker 1: It was bound to happen. Um. So today we are

40
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 1: talking about the Descent, which content warning in case you

41
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,240
Speaker 1: haven't seen it, we are going to be talking about

42
00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:30,080
Speaker 1: some gory stuff. It's a horror movie, which reminds me

43
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,440
Speaker 1: the first time. I actually avoided this movie for a while,

44
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,200
Speaker 1: and I came to it late in the game because

45
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 1: I had seen still images of it and it was

46
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,200
Speaker 1: usually the cover or the image of one of the

47
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:48,079
Speaker 1: women covered in blood, and I was thinking that I

48
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,600
Speaker 1: I misunderstood, and I thought it might be sort of

49
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,120
Speaker 1: one of those like um torture films or like a

50
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,640
Speaker 1: sexploitation film or something, and that's not my thing. So

51
00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,639
Speaker 1: I avoided it. But my friend Katie, who I've had

52
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:06,320
Speaker 1: on the show, her family super conservative, very religious, her

53
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:13,280
Speaker 1: mom like sweet, small, very like active woman, loves documentaries,

54
00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 1: and uh, she ordered The Descent through her her satellite

55
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,480
Speaker 1: because at the time I was so jealous because they

56
00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,760
Speaker 1: had like satellite and could get all those channels, and

57
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:33,600
Speaker 1: she thought it was a documentary. And she, Katie tells me,

58
00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,680
Speaker 1: she made it until like the first person got killed

59
00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:46,920
Speaker 1: before she she made it through the girl breaking her leg. Yes,

60
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,280
Speaker 1: and I'm pretty And also like just the way it opens,

61
00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,480
Speaker 1: I'm thinking she somehow missed the beginning, so she missed

62
00:03:55,480 --> 00:04:00,960
Speaker 1: the whole pipes and the herd dream of her getting

63
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,360
Speaker 1: stabbed in the which was like a jump scare for sure.

64
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, like maybe she just sort of fast forward.

65
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,560
Speaker 1: I don't know. As someone who has made a mistake

66
00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,400
Speaker 1: like this before, I am puzzled as to how this

67
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,360
Speaker 1: could have happened as she went that far into because

68
00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,440
Speaker 1: it's just like that's the climax, but it goes fit quickly, right.

69
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:26,280
Speaker 1: And also I mean that whole like camp before they

70
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,200
Speaker 1: go into the cave, where there at the cabin and

71
00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,560
Speaker 1: they're like having a fun time. There's a lot of

72
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,520
Speaker 1: stuff that happens in that scene that I don't think

73
00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,559
Speaker 1: she would have been very happy with. Um, so that's fair,

74
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,600
Speaker 1: but it is one of my very favorite like kind

75
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:45,000
Speaker 1: of shading Freuda. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. That's sad and

76
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 1: hilarious because she's probably haunted by it too. She's like,

77
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,880
Speaker 1: what am I watching? What am I watching? Speaking of? What? Yes,

78
00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,360
Speaker 1: we're talking about The Descent. It is a two thousand

79
00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,239
Speaker 1: five British horror movie written and directed by Neil Marshall.

80
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,680
Speaker 1: It was a critical and financial success and it's still

81
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,280
Speaker 1: on many people's number one horror movie list. Like that

82
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,039
Speaker 1: is the one that scares the most. I've been told

83
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,279
Speaker 1: about this movie a lot when I was going through

84
00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,880
Speaker 1: my whole like I think it was about five years ago,

85
00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,000
Speaker 1: and I started to really enjoying horror movies because for

86
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,120
Speaker 1: the longest time like, nope, these nights, these are nightmares.

87
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,240
Speaker 1: I don't like it. And I was like, well, actually

88
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,440
Speaker 1: I do enjoy this. This was everybody's number one on

89
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,800
Speaker 1: THEIRS and I never understood why. And it went on

90
00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,359
Speaker 1: to spawn a sequel in two thousand nine called The

91
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 1: Dissent Part two. Did you watch this? I have seen

92
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,040
Speaker 1: the just sent part to you. I've seen it multiple times,

93
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,640
Speaker 1: multiple times. Do you know what that much? Or you

94
00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,240
Speaker 1: just happened to watch it? Um, I'm somebody who is

95
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:46,440
Speaker 1: very guilty of UM maybe starting to read a fan

96
00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,200
Speaker 1: fiction in the middle of a movie or something, so

97
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,000
Speaker 1: like I'll see the first half and like I really

98
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 1: know the first half or you know, something like that.

99
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it was enjoyable enough. It was not something

100
00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,560
Speaker 1: like I would sit down and watch probably, but like

101
00:05:58,600 --> 00:05:59,960
Speaker 1: if I have it on the background, if I'm just

102
00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,640
Speaker 1: for a cheesy heart I don't know, cheesy kind of

103
00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,640
Speaker 1: cheesy horri beyond in the background. It was a good

104
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,159
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about that very very briefly, and yeah,

105
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,120
Speaker 1: like you were saying, Samantha, this is like if you

106
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,520
Speaker 1: look up feminist horror movies that just harmonies, but like

107
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,600
Speaker 1: feminist harm movies, this movie comes up a lot. This

108
00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,200
Speaker 1: was several listeners suggested it. I think we've talked about

109
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 1: it on the show. But I'm not someone I'm not claustrophobic,

110
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,560
Speaker 1: but but I do. I'm like on the verge of claustrophobic,

111
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,360
Speaker 1: if that makes sense. I don't think I could be

112
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 1: like diagnosed, but it makes me very, very uncomfortable. It

113
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,680
Speaker 1: makes me really nervous seeing scenes and thinking you can't move. Yeah,

114
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 1: that's this is why I think I remember because I

115
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:44,920
Speaker 1: told you as we were preparing for it, I was like, oh,

116
00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,080
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, and I can't remember why. I

117
00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,000
Speaker 1: think I blocked that part out, even though I know

118
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,279
Speaker 1: it is a part of this movie, and that's part

119
00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,680
Speaker 1: of the suspense in the horrors, like people prays on

120
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,080
Speaker 1: people's fears of darkness, of never ending holes and being

121
00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 1: stuck in small space. I have a lot of weird

122
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,680
Speaker 1: part of that, uh, And I acknowledge that when it

123
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,440
Speaker 1: comes to my fear of factors like that, I have

124
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,080
Speaker 1: unreasonable fears like things coming to life and getting me.

125
00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,960
Speaker 1: I'm just sure of that. Not being able to see

126
00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 1: in the water one of those. So for those stupid

127
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,920
Speaker 1: little rides that we do, they have water rise. I

128
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,440
Speaker 1: can't stand it. I don't like being on the edge

129
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,600
Speaker 1: because I'm afraid something's gonna come and grab me because

130
00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,800
Speaker 1: I can't see. So that that plays into this as

131
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,440
Speaker 1: well as the small space thing that is not unreasonable,

132
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,280
Speaker 1: I don't think, but that whole thing where she's actually

133
00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,760
Speaker 1: stuck and having a panic attack, I almost had to

134
00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 1: fast forward it and like stop because I was like, yeah,

135
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 1: this is like as I'm talking about in my heart

136
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,720
Speaker 1: starting to race a little bit because I can't. So

137
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 1: I tried to do this. I took classes because you know,

138
00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,320
Speaker 1: if you really want to do this right, you need

139
00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,200
Speaker 1: to take classes. You need to you need to understand

140
00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,320
Speaker 1: what's happening. So I'm gonna pretend that they did these

141
00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,160
Speaker 1: women did, and not just like walk into this and

142
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,320
Speaker 1: be like I can do this for sure, but like

143
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 1: I went and take these classes, and as we were

144
00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,600
Speaker 1: sitting there talking about things and they were showing videos

145
00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,960
Speaker 1: and then how small the spaces were, I was like, no, nope,

146
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,160
Speaker 1: I think I did two classes and walked out. Yeah. Yeah,

147
00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,920
Speaker 1: this movie is a horrifying Samantha listeners just made the

148
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,280
Speaker 1: stake of watching this before she went to bed last

149
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,400
Speaker 1: I kind of forgot and I was like, look, I

150
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,520
Speaker 1: want to I want to go to bed Albumine as well.

151
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,320
Speaker 1: Because I'm dead with the work. I'll just watch it

152
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,480
Speaker 1: in my room. Sat there. I was like, oh, no,

153
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:28,200
Speaker 1: I've made a huge mistake. No, oh no, I watched

154
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,040
Speaker 1: it before I went to bed. But it's all okay.

155
00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,600
Speaker 1: So Marshall and his business partner deliberately chose to cast

156
00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,880
Speaker 1: all women because he believed they were underrepresented in the

157
00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,679
Speaker 1: horror genre. On top of that, he asked for advice

158
00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,120
Speaker 1: from female friends about friendships between women in an attempt

159
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:50,440
Speaker 1: to avoid cliches. The movie stars Sean McDonald, Natalie Mendoza,

160
00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,920
Speaker 1: Alex Street, Sasha Moulder, Nora Jane Noon, and Mayanna Burring

161
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,960
Speaker 1: as friends going on a caving trip. The film opens

162
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,920
Speaker 1: with a whitewater rafting trip between Sarah played by McDonald,

163
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,880
Speaker 1: Juno played by Mendoza, and Beth played by Reid. After

164
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,240
Speaker 1: they are having this lovely time, After they get to

165
00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,920
Speaker 1: the end um, Sarah and her husband and daughter are

166
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,880
Speaker 1: involved in a car accident and only Sarah survives. This

167
00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 1: is where the pipe yeah submission comes in. So it's

168
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,480
Speaker 1: pretty horrifying. And if you haven't watched this movie and

169
00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,079
Speaker 1: you plan to watch this movie after the fact, be prepared. Also,

170
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,160
Speaker 1: that's also ridiculous fear because I've actually had you know that,

171
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,760
Speaker 1: that's kind of like that final destination level, like, oh

172
00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,880
Speaker 1: my god, that thing's gonna kip me so many fears.

173
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:40,559
Speaker 1: So once a year has passed, friends Sarah, Juno, Beth, Sam, Rebecca,

174
00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 1: and Holly meet up to go caving in North Carolina,

175
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,520
Speaker 1: which is actually not in North Carolina. They just pretendedly

176
00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,720
Speaker 1: they North Carolina made me laugh. So when they entered

177
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,600
Speaker 1: the cave, Juno offers Sarah an apology for not being

178
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,520
Speaker 1: there for her in the wake of the loss of

179
00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,040
Speaker 1: her family um and Sarah is very quiet, dismissive and

180
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:01,560
Speaker 1: doesn't respond to and more she's trying to move on

181
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,960
Speaker 1: past it. The group traverses a narrow, yes, very narrow,

182
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,240
Speaker 1: claustrophobic passageway that collapses behind them after a really intense

183
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,480
Speaker 1: scene of her being stuck and having a panic attack.

184
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 1: Like I said, and it got me, it got me,

185
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,120
Speaker 1: which leads to attends confrontation between the group where Juno

186
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,520
Speaker 1: No Juno reveals that she lied when she told them

187
00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:25,880
Speaker 1: they were exploring a fully discovered route, but she instead

188
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,679
Speaker 1: led them into an unmapped cave system, hoping they could

189
00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,080
Speaker 1: discover and name it. This means that the prospects of

190
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:38,600
Speaker 1: rescue are pretty much zero as uh. She leaves behind

191
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,320
Speaker 1: the map a they didn't report where they were going

192
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,520
Speaker 1: to the Yeah, and the person who reported it thought

193
00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,720
Speaker 1: they were going to a different cave and that's what

194
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,920
Speaker 1: they reported. Huh uh, And Juno claims she did it

195
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:56,040
Speaker 1: to mend her and Sarah's relationship. Yeah. The group presses

196
00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,959
Speaker 1: on in search of her way out, encountering really old

197
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,800
Speaker 1: cating equipment and cave paintings that suggest that others have

198
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,480
Speaker 1: been here before and that there is an exit. When

199
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,320
Speaker 1: Holly thinks she sees sunlight, she rushes towards it and falls,

200
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,559
Speaker 1: breaking a leg also a pretty gruesome sane. While the

201
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,760
Speaker 1: group argues about what to do, Sarah goes off for

202
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,480
Speaker 1: a bit and witnesses a pale, fleshy humanoid creature drinking

203
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,280
Speaker 1: water before it crawls off and these creatures are called crawlers.

204
00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,360
Speaker 1: They never say that in the movie, I don't think,

205
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,400
Speaker 1: but that's what everybody calls him. Later, the group uncovers

206
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,040
Speaker 1: just a lot of appears to be animal bones before

207
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,440
Speaker 1: they are attacked by one of these creatures, resulting in

208
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,320
Speaker 1: Holly's death after it rips through her throat. The group

209
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,280
Speaker 1: separates and panic Sarah falls down another hole and is

210
00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,680
Speaker 1: knocked unconscious. Juno pursues the crawler in an attempt to

211
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,520
Speaker 1: save Holly's body, killing the crawler with a pickaxe. In

212
00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,920
Speaker 1: a state of adrenaline, she accidentally hits Beth in the

213
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,560
Speaker 1: neck with the axe. Beth grabs Juno's necklace, falling backwards

214
00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,360
Speaker 1: and pleading that Juno stay with her. But Juno please

215
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,680
Speaker 1: and shock right. So. Sarah regains consciousness in a cave

216
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,880
Speaker 1: of the animal bones and carcasses, just in time to

217
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,840
Speaker 1: see Holly ripped apart and eaten by the crawlers. She

218
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,080
Speaker 1: stays still to evade their attention. Meanwhile, Juno finds cave

219
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,839
Speaker 1: paintings that seem to indicate an exit before she reunites

220
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,599
Speaker 1: with Sam and Rebecca, who have figured out that the

221
00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,760
Speaker 1: creatures are blind and depend on sound. Um and Juno

222
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,400
Speaker 1: shares the information about the potential exit with them, but

223
00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,160
Speaker 1: will not leave until they find Sarah. And I didn't

224
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,920
Speaker 1: really think the scene was really nice, not notice necessarily

225
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,240
Speaker 1: in the fact that all the hell has broken loose,

226
00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,400
Speaker 1: but that uh, Sam and Rebecca are cleaning to each

227
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,400
Speaker 1: other and really prospective of each other. Yes, says sisters,

228
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,440
Speaker 1: and it's obvious that their relationships are closed. Of course,

229
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,400
Speaker 1: we don't mention the fact that, you know, when they

230
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,880
Speaker 1: were climbing, she's like cuts her hand, which, by the way,

231
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 1: I felt that, I felt that everything about that when

232
00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,840
Speaker 1: the rope slides out of our hands because they have

233
00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:03,840
Speaker 1: to rescue Juno. But yeah, I did like that scene.

234
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,320
Speaker 1: I thought it was sweet. Um and Sarah discovers a

235
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 1: dying Beth, who tells her Juno attacked her and then

236
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,800
Speaker 1: left her to die and give Sarah Juno's necklace. Of course,

237
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 1: Sarah realizes that the Nicholas was a good from her

238
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,200
Speaker 1: husband when Beth says Paul when she's holding that so

239
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,280
Speaker 1: the best new is the best new from the beginning,

240
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,880
Speaker 1: and that he and Juno were having an affair, which

241
00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,760
Speaker 1: is kind of implied at the very beginning where you

242
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,920
Speaker 1: see him taking off her helmet and they're just staring

243
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:37,440
Speaker 1: a little too closely. Yeah, like, why don't you believe

244
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,040
Speaker 1: Sarah will take care of this? Yeah? And then of

245
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,839
Speaker 1: at best desperate request, Sarah kills Beth by bashing her

246
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 1: head with a rock. Of course, this is after she

247
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,559
Speaker 1: tells Sarah but not to trust Juno, which is the

248
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,400
Speaker 1: whole different thing, And yeah, that seems bad. The noise

249
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,560
Speaker 1: draws several callers to the location, but Sarah is able

250
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,560
Speaker 1: to kill the them and parted by staying still in

251
00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,840
Speaker 1: a pool of blood, and she merges absolutely soaking in blood,

252
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,240
Speaker 1: which was reminiscent of Carry to Me. Things are going

253
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,719
Speaker 1: great for Juno, Rebecca and Sam Um They're fleeing from

254
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,080
Speaker 1: a group of crawlers when they arrive at a chasm,

255
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,280
Speaker 1: and Sam, poor Sam tams to cross it, but is

256
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,640
Speaker 1: ambushed by a crawler who is on the ceiling and

257
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 1: then kills her and leaves her hanging over the drop. Yeah,

258
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,720
Speaker 1: that was really sad. Rebecca is dragged away and eaten,

259
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 1: so Juno tries to cross using Sam's body, instead falls

260
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,160
Speaker 1: into the water, fights another crawler, and then climbs back up,

261
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:38,120
Speaker 1: where she's reunited with Sarah. Who hasks her about Beth.

262
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,480
Speaker 1: You know, hey, Juno Beth. Yeah, and Juno tells her

263
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 1: that she saw Beth die. The pair fight off a

264
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,320
Speaker 1: group of crawlers like they do have like a bad

265
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,240
Speaker 1: moment together, like we're going to kill them before so

266
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,880
Speaker 1: reveals that she knows what happened to Beth and about

267
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,560
Speaker 1: the affair between Juno and Sarah's husband, which was a

268
00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,560
Speaker 1: nice interaction. They did a good job in acting that.

269
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,520
Speaker 1: The face. There's a lot of should because I think

270
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,480
Speaker 1: Sarah did one ward would just say one word at

271
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,280
Speaker 1: a time. She drops the necklace that comes out of

272
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,680
Speaker 1: her fist and yeah, which, by the way, on the

273
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,000
Speaker 1: necklace it says love each day, which Sarah says at

274
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,320
Speaker 1: the beginning of the scene, saying that that's where her

275
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,840
Speaker 1: husband used to say so obvious. Obvious. So she drops

276
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,880
Speaker 1: that necklace, lets her know, I know, I know what

277
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,080
Speaker 1: you did, and Sarah his Juno in the leg with

278
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,960
Speaker 1: a pick axe. Oh yeah, it's really fierce, and leaves

279
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,120
Speaker 1: her crawling towards the light as Juno screams. However, Sarah

280
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,520
Speaker 1: gets knocked out after falling down a hole. Also falling

281
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,640
Speaker 1: down holes in this there's so many holes. Yes, yes,

282
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,480
Speaker 1: So this is where we come to the endings, and

283
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,600
Speaker 1: that's right endings, because there are two, the US one

284
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,080
Speaker 1: and the UK one. In the US ending, Sarah wakes

285
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,440
Speaker 1: up and see sunlight and she clambers towards it and

286
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 1: she emerges out into the world. She rushes to their

287
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,320
Speaker 1: car and peels off before stopping them alongside the road

288
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 1: to Puke. When she and the camera raise up, there

289
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,760
Speaker 1: is a hallucination of Juno in the car with her,

290
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,400
Speaker 1: and Sarah screams, and that's the end. In the UK ending,

291
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 1: Sarah wakes in the cave and sees her daughter across

292
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,040
Speaker 1: from her with candles and a cake, which was sort

293
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 1: of this recurring image throughout the movie. Sarah smiles with

294
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,360
Speaker 1: the audience realizes the candles are Sarah's torch. She is

295
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 1: still trapped in the cave and the crawlers are approaching.

296
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,640
Speaker 1: So the reason there are two endings. According to Entertainment

297
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:32,360
Speaker 1: Weekly is America did not like the quote uber hopelessness

298
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,280
Speaker 1: of the UK. To be fair, you don't know as

299
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,640
Speaker 1: hopeless she could have made it out, it's true, And

300
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 1: that is a good segue into a very brief summation

301
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 1: of the plot of the two thousand nine sequel, directed

302
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,560
Speaker 1: by John Harris, who was involved in the first one.

303
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,560
Speaker 1: Sarah wakes up unable to remember what happened in the cave,

304
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,520
Speaker 1: so this is whatever ending she survived, I suppose. Um.

305
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,000
Speaker 1: She's taken to a hospital where police question her about

306
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,760
Speaker 1: location of her friends. She agrees to go with the

307
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,200
Speaker 1: authorities and cave specialists back into the cave system, where

308
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,840
Speaker 1: she starts experiencing these flashbacks as they discover the bodies

309
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,560
Speaker 1: of her friends. Some suspect she is behind the deaths

310
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,400
Speaker 1: of the other women. There's a cave collapse and Sarah

311
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:21,480
Speaker 1: regains her memories. Juno arrives to save one of the party,

312
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 1: and she's really angry Sarah lef her to die. She

313
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,120
Speaker 1: tries to kill Sarah, but has stopped one of the group,

314
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,680
Speaker 1: lying that Sarah came in search of Junos and being like, no,

315
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 1: she wanted to come and save you. Juno rulens and

316
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,520
Speaker 1: later intervenes to save Sarah's life. Sarah later returns the favor,

317
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 1: but Juno dies in Sarah's arms. Sarah tries to save

318
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 1: another woman in their party, um shouting and running off

319
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,280
Speaker 1: to give her some time to escape. The woman does escape,

320
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,880
Speaker 1: but is knocked unconscious by a dude that lives near

321
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,359
Speaker 1: the cave. When she wakes, a crawler is coming towards her,

322
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,640
Speaker 1: So the implication being this dude is like the guardian

323
00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,119
Speaker 1: of the cave entrance and is making sure they're like

324
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 1: fit and it's kept hidden. Okay, Yeah, he's like the

325
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,960
Speaker 1: guy at the beginning of a horror movie that's like, oh, no,

326
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 1: one goes down that way, and then they did, let's

327
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,840
Speaker 1: live if you don't see her die, but it's implied

328
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 1: that she did, but it's implied that she didn't the

329
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 1: first one. So you know, yeah, well, I guess the

330
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,200
Speaker 1: American version is probably more for the sequels. Probably well,

331
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 1: Neil Marshall said he didn't think there was a need

332
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 1: first equel and he did not want there to be

333
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,000
Speaker 1: a sequel, so and the UK ending is his preferred ending.

334
00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 1: So I think it's like we have two Cannon universes.

335
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 1: We've got the one in the UK. Those those UK people,

336
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 1: they like sadness. They yes, j K. We did want

337
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 1: to talk about some thieves, but first we're gonna pause

338
00:18:49,000 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 1: for a quick break for word from our sponsor, ammer Back.

339
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,439
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. So Perhaps one of the biggest themes,

340
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 1: and one of the things that makes this movie stand

341
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,160
Speaker 1: out in the horror genre is that it's primarily focused

342
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 1: on friendships and betrayals between women who don't fit into

343
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,160
Speaker 1: the traditional horror stereotypes of the horror who gets killed

344
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,919
Speaker 1: first after we see her naked body and or she

345
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 1: has sex and the madonna either the final girl who's

346
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,919
Speaker 1: pretty traditionally virtuous are the mother figure, but in this

347
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 1: we have six friends who are a mix of mothers

348
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 1: and not in relationships and not um They are complex,

349
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,240
Speaker 1: thought out characters, so as the group descends into the

350
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,879
Speaker 1: womb like oppressive, claustrophobic caves as things get more and

351
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 1: more frightening, they don't fall back into the classic Dames

352
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 1: one distressed tropes so often employed in horror movies. Uh,

353
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 1: there's no man to save them or to take control

354
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,200
Speaker 1: of the situation. While they are fearful and angry, they

355
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 1: do not let it overwhelm them completely. They think critically

356
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 1: of possible solutions are ways to move forward, and they're

357
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: physically strong, capable, and impressive. Yeah, they're very strong. The

358
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 1: scenes where they scale across the roof with just carabineers

359
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 1: and upper arm strength. Yeah, I was like, I'm dead, sure,

360
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 1: no I could. That seems shocks me every time where

361
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 1: she's holding on with a one arm reaching into her pocket.

362
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yep, I would definitely have died. And yeah,

363
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 1: they're they cause some gnarly deaths for these crawlers, the

364
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: whole like cooking of the eye. Yeah, the fruit, Like

365
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 1: when Juno comes and breaks his neck, I was like, yeah,

366
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 1: go ahead, good Yeah. Building off the support of other

367
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,000
Speaker 1: women and what they pass on, that's another scene that

368
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 1: we see through these friendships in the poster and I

369
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: actually never noticed this, and now I feel quite silly. Um,

370
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 1: the characters use their bodies to provide support for each other.

371
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,879
Speaker 1: But it's it makes us symbol of a female skull.

372
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 1: So that's it's a flipping of women being protective and

373
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 1: supportive into something that promises horror. Yeah, I've never noticed

374
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 1: the skull thing. Now you didn't know. So building on,

375
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,680
Speaker 1: let's dig into the betrayal, which is at the heart

376
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 1: of this film. Obviously, between whether it's the death, whether

377
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,880
Speaker 1: it's the fair, there's a lot of patrol in here.

378
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: So Juno's affair with Sarah's husband Juno's character's name comes

379
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: from Jupiter's wife, who in Greek and Roman mythology was

380
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,360
Speaker 1: scheming and full of rage. Um. And when Juno decides

381
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: in a desperate and pretty selfish and impatient attempt to

382
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: make amends with Sarah, yeah, of course, and this never works,

383
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 1: all know the septions that never works By lying to

384
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 1: the group about exploring an unknown cave system and leaves

385
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 1: behind the map, which just does not make sense. That

386
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: seems like she wanted to kill somebody, which and and

387
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: could have saved them, she unknowingly maybe knowingly, dooms them

388
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 1: in her arrogance. Again, I get the whole like, let's

389
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: discover something, okay, leaving a map? Why? Yeah? And I

390
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: actually did want to have a discussion about this because

391
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: I think this is a testament to the movie, into

392
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,479
Speaker 1: the development of the characters, that there's no part of

393
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 1: me that thinks that that wasn't a terrible thing to do,

394
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: a very unwise thing to do. And even if in

395
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: the best of circumstances they had discovered a new cave,

396
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 1: I guarantee you people would still been mad. Maybe they

397
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: would have been like also happy, but also mad, And

398
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: it could have gone just like this right, especially when

399
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: you're supposed to come together to celebrate life, essentially like

400
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 1: trying to get her into a better place because she's

401
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: gone through so much trauma and you trying to do

402
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: this like you can't do death like level death defying

403
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: experiences as a way to come together. That's not how

404
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: this works, right, I mean it is incredibly selfish and arrogant,

405
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: and I I for some reason, I often think of

406
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: that line that's in um is that civil war? Civil war,

407
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 1: or the woman says like people who have a lot

408
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: of guilt are the ones that are like very active

409
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,359
Speaker 1: and like charity and stuff like that. Well, at the

410
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: end us a separate conversation, but I love I feel

411
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 1: like it's sort of that too, where Juno feels very

412
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: very guilty and just wants to feel better and it's

413
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: all about herself and she's like feels this such overwoman guilt.

414
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: But like my point is there's a part of me

415
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 1: that I don't hate, you know, like there's some parts

416
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 1: of her they're bad. I think that's the thing, is

417
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 1: like I don't hate you know. Maybe it's because I'm like, hey,

418
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: look Asian sister, cool, for get it, but also for

419
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: the fact that she is trying to be a leader,

420
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: she is trying to protect some of them. She did

421
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: try to go find Holly. She was the one that

422
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 1: warn't stopped doing this because Holly was probably the most

423
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: impulsive and running trying to get the places. Had to

424
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: stop everyone because she almost fell off the side of

425
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: like she's producted people as well as a leader. Weird

426
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: little moment of like her doing that stretch at the

427
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,479
Speaker 1: beginning of the scene, I was like, is that supposed

428
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: to imply something? I'm confused, what is happening? Impressive, It's

429
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: funny because we're watching this. I've watched this that. I mean,

430
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: I was younger, I was probably in college. But for

431
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: some reason I thought that two of them were together

432
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 1: in a romantic relationship. And I think that was probably

433
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 1: just me being like I'm not used to seeing women

434
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: women and trying to put them together. But I kept

435
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: like that scene in particular, I was like, who is

436
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: the couple? I can't remember. It turns out there isn't one,

437
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: but I remember when she was doing I was like,

438
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 1: she's showing off or something, or she is showing off

439
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: but not romantically. Yeah, she showing off because she went

440
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: running and she did all these things and I'm so

441
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: in shape and ready to go, right, But yeah, but yeah,

442
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: but I really liked her character and I didn't want

443
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: her to die because I feel like the two of them,

444
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: we're such a strong team. As angry as Sarah was,

445
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: of course, maybe this could be everything to my own empathies.

446
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,239
Speaker 1: She didn't deserve to die. No, I'm the same, and

447
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: I think that's what makes this a good movie, and

448
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,479
Speaker 1: that shows that the character development is good, because I've

449
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,399
Speaker 1: seen movies similar to this where I would have hated

450
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: that character, like you if you got rid of the

451
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: map and I'm thinking of Blair, which now, but if

452
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: you had done things like that, which I do think

453
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 1: are really things to do, then I would have just

454
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: hated you. And that's the slot that you fit in,

455
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: is you're the evil, bad character of this idy. But

456
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: instead like there, you know, I get really mad at her,

457
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: and then there are other parts where I'm like, wow,

458
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 1: So maybe it's the actress who did it, and she

459
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: did it so well even with best that her leaving

460
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: were was yeah but understandable, as well as the fact

461
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: that it was an accident. It was a complete accident,

462
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: and she's horrified, and she has much guilt on top

463
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: of her for this, and it is bad. But again,

464
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: this is not menacing. It was not her being selfish.

465
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: It wasn't her being selfish. Tried to push, like it's

466
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: not someone who pushes someone out the door that they

467
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: could be saved, right, And I think people are complicated

468
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: in that way to you where it's certainly a level

469
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: of selfishness when she says like, I'm not leaving without Sarah.

470
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: But I do think there's a part of her that

471
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: was like, no, not leaven, I got her in this situation.

472
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: I already really royally messed up for life how she feels,

473
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to leave without her. And I

474
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: think it's also interesting because you don't see Paul, Sarah's husband,

475
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: but for like less than a minute, and I think

476
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: he only says one thing, and it's I've never read

477
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 1: read it like this, but it's implied. I guess that

478
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: Sarah's husband's guilt about the affair led to the car

479
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: accident that killed him and Sarah's daughter. So just all

480
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: this guilt. But it's it's what we've talked about before

481
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: of like it takes two to cheat, right, So we

482
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: don't have his characters, so we don't know what was

483
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: going on or anything. It seems that Sarah was happy

484
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: and especially you know, loving of the of her family.

485
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: But like, again, yeah, mad at Juno. It sounds like

486
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: Guno apologies, but that's fine, but it does take We

487
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: know Paul was up to this as well, right well,

488
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, so you had started already working on

489
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: this and I read over this before I watched it,

490
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: So when I read that part, I was like, oh, yeah,

491
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: I see it now, because it's that weird interaction between

492
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: you know, at the beginning, like he's pretty must caressing

493
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: her face weirdly and there he's thinking. It's obviously he's thinking.

494
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: In the car, she touches them and he jarks away,

495
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: which is kind of that implication of that guilt, uh,

496
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: and she's like you okay, and he's trying to look

497
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: at her lovingly to prove that he was okay, and

498
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: that's when the accident happens. So yeah, I think that

499
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: makes sense that it was implied. But yeah, with the

500
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: the whole level, Juno fells due to her arrogance. She's

501
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: caught by her friends but hurts them in the process,

502
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: which it's like she continues to make that bad decision

503
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: so selfish. All of this is for selfishness. But this

504
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: is how she handles saying I'm sorry. Um, And she

505
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: runs from the damage and pain she causes. Again, we've

506
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: seen that in the way she talks about not being

507
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: there for Sarah, or when Sarah first wakes up in

508
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: the hospital, she runs literally runs away from her because

509
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: she's like crying and leaves. Uh. And she also experiences

510
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 1: the second hand trauma. Yeah. Yeah, And I mean again,

511
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: we don't know what this relationship between either of these

512
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: women was were with Paul, but she, as she says

513
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: in the movie, like everybody lost something in that crash

514
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: that day, So for all we know, she was really mourning.

515
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: That doesn't excuse her behavior at all, but it is yeah, no, no,

516
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 1: not not okay at all. Um. And yeah, she says

517
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: at one point like why can't things go back to

518
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: where the way they were? Um? When Juno first sees

519
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: Sarah alive, covered in blood, she asked, like, what happened

520
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: to you? It sort of feels to me like she's

521
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: asking about the trauma of like facing the damage that

522
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: she helped cause at least a little of like finally

523
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: looking Sarah in the face, realizing things aren't just going

524
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: to go back to how they were, right, Yeah, And

525
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: and I did want to put in here. While we

526
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: do see this element of cattiness between women, we do

527
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: see other moments of tender friendship and fierce loyalty. And

528
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: even the cattiness part is like less catty and more

529
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: like a legit argument, right, little moment of oh my god,

530
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna die because this is happening, right exactly, not

531
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: so much like you. It's just I think when I

532
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: heard the description for it, and when you think about

533
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: like the cheating element, there's just a kneejerk part of

534
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: me that's like, oh, it's about catty women again fighting

535
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: over a man. But it really isn't that. But we

536
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:57,959
Speaker 1: do want to talk about something we talked about a

537
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: lot on here, which is female revenge and anger. But

538
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: first we're gonna pause for one more quick break for

539
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor m E went back, thank you sponsored.

540
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: So yes, we also see what happens when a woman's

541
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: grief is twisted into a vengeance. Um the visual of

542
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: Sarah being covered in blood and in the original ending,

543
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: jaxaposed against her smiling softly at her daughter is a

544
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: good representation of this is a very gray visual, right,

545
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: and a part of this two is something we've discussed

546
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: at length trauma and grief. Both Sarah and Juno are

547
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: grieving the loss of Sarah's husband and Sarah's grieving her daughter.

548
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: This and and Judo's need to pretty much get rid

549
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: of her guilt at Sarah's grief because again, yes, this

550
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: is partly our fault um which propels the whole storyline

551
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: of hard needing to fix it, so this is way

552
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: of fixing it. Cave could also represent this as well,

553
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: descending into the darkness of grief and the monsters it

554
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: can reveal within us or eventually will always come out

555
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: and haunt you really um and could slow eat away

556
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: at you. Literally. The original ending suggests that we can

557
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,479
Speaker 1: never fully escape by trauma, and the blood, the bones,

558
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: the darkness, the primordial design of the crawlers, all of

559
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: it is evocative of the darkness of traumas in their

560
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: search for their exit and the light in the search

561
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: for healing. Yeah, I never I think I watched this

562
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 1: before I started really doing my feminist interpretations of movies,

563
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: so i'd never really thought about it in this way,

564
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: but it makes a lot a lot of sense to

565
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: me of it being just this sort of like gory

566
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: horror representation of trauma and grief and trying to heal,

567
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: like that search for healing, right, and all of this

568
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: is like it's they're blinded, kind of like the Crawlers

569
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: or the monsters within, they're blinded by all of this.

570
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: They're blinded by all of the damage that they've they're seeing,

571
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: and this revenge is needed without seeing how far into it,

572
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: because yeah, part of the ending for Sarah seeing you know,

573
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: the ghost of you know, is that guilt even though

574
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: just like he felt good about at the moment, is

575
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: that guilt and being blinded by the hate or the

576
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: hurt again, it's kind of the same thing, and so

577
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 1: it eats away at you. Well again, yeah, it's a

578
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of running and trying to feel

579
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: better and by doing so, making things worse. Yes, And

580
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: sometimes when you dig too deep, you're coming in with

581
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: these double meanings. You know, I'm saying, I love it.

582
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: I love it. So the Crawlers are like us, And

583
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: that was a deliberate choice that the creators made. If

584
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: we had never seen, like we'd never evolved, and as

585
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: the women descend into the womb Wit cave, as they

586
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: lose their their rope there on biblical cord, they descended

587
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: to more raw, dark emotions and choices like pure violent

588
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: anger fueled by grief. And yeah, just looking at this

589
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: as like grief is the real nightmare, and I, yeah,

590
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: I forgot about this when Sarah unhooks her monitoring equipment

591
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: in the beginning and she's flatlining like a piece of

592
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: her diet and she kind of has this really terrifying nightmare.

593
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: When Sarah gets stuck in the cave and can't breathe

594
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: can't move without a friend supporting her. Her friend Beth,

595
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: who goes back in for her, says, the worst thing

596
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: that could have happened to you already happened. The cave

597
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: in behind her blocks her off from her old life,

598
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: forcing her to move forward again. This is all like

599
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: me really getting into this idea that it's about grief.

600
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is ever intentional, but I

601
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: think it makes sense. I am curious when this came

602
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: out because I, like I said, I was late to

603
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: the game, so I kind of always knew the general

604
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: gist of it. I'm curious when this came out if

605
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: you were supposed to think it was all on Sarah's head,

606
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: because there's the shot of the pills at the one part,

607
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 1: there's the nightmares. There's a couple of instances where she

608
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 1: sees the crawlers and no one else does, which could

609
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: plan to that thing We've talked about a lot with

610
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: horror movies as well. Why didn't you believe her? Not

611
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: believing women. I'm just curious if any listeners remember seeing

612
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: this before everyone kind of knew what it was all about,

613
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: if that was something that you like, maybe this is

614
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: all in her head, right, I don't know. So when

615
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: I initially heard about this movie, I knew it was

616
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: about caving, and I didn't even know it had monsters.

617
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: I was actually I had no clue. I had nothing.

618
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: I had no clue. So I watched it and I

619
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, okay, okay, co co co cocoa co

620
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: cool humanois who got stuck down there that survived by

621
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: eating and by the way, they were all family. Did

622
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: you notice that? So when Sarah fights the person in

623
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,959
Speaker 1: the pool of blood, is is the mother who after

624
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: seeing her her child killed, which is a whole different thing.

625
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: I was like, they made it, people, they made it.

626
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: And then that one figurehead apparently called Scar did you

627
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: see this regrets? Okay, he was the head of the family. Um,

628
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: their life was destroyed too, like the truly are they

629
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: truly monsters or are they just surviving and a living

630
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: and you came into their domain and now your food.

631
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: But like you saw the two mothers head to head too,

632
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: and I thought that was purposeful and pointed as well

633
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 1: the rage and the hurt and the anger that happened

634
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: between the two females. I guess, because I guess the

635
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: creature as a woman, I don't. I don't know. But

636
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: when I initially watched it, of course I'm not looking

637
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: at the view of women, this representation of women, but

638
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: I did note that, yes, this is all about somehow

639
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: justifying guilt, assaging the guilt and or the pain, so

640
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 1: trying to move on and pretend that you're okay. So

641
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: for me, I saw that Now when I saw the

642
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: Sarah stuff, to me, I felt like you're supposed to

643
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: just be her, like you're supposed to feel what she's

644
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: going through and the nightmare that she's going through. That

645
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 1: that's the setup because you need some one person to

646
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: uh go beyond that empathy level, yeah, be like the audience, yeah,

647
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: and to see that perspective. So that's how I saw it.

648
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 1: Not necessarily she wasn't, but I could see it being

649
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: like a whole Shamalan. Well, I bet they were at

650
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: least playing on that. But yeah, we would love to

651
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 1: hear from listeners. Clearly, we've had some deep thoughts about

652
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: the Deep Caving movie that I will not go up to. Yes, no, thanks.

653
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,919
Speaker 1: You can send your thoughts and suggestions for our next

654
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 1: movie to our email, which is definitely your mom Stuff

655
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: at I hurt me dot com. You can find us

656
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You, are on

657
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our

658
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: super producer Christina. Thank you Christina, and thanks to you

659
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: for listening Stuff I Never Told you. The protection of

660
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio for more podcast on my Heart Radio because

661
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: the art radio app, Apple Podcast or reveryl listen to

662
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: your favorite shows