1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: Frying and I'm Tracy Vie Wilson. One of the things 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: we talked about this week, it was Rudolph Diesel and 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: his Diesel engine and really the vanishing of Rudolph Diesel, 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: which is really what I wanted to talk about. Um, 7 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: listen Borderline Spooky Time. Yeah, I think based on my 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: vague memory that back when I was on also that 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: other podcasts in addition to this one called This Day 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: in History Class, I feel like I did an episode 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: that was about the day that Rudolph Diesel disappeared. Yeah. Um, 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: and I think I had had uh this on my 13 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: short list. A short is like I'm total miss number 14 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: number like this. This is a short list of eight things. Yeah. 15 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: And clearly it was not a priority to me because 16 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: in all of that time it never moved up to 17 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: the top. But also when I went on there today 18 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: to delete it, since we were recording this, I realized 19 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: I didn't even have his actual name on there. It 20 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: just said guy who invented Diesel question mark, I love it, 21 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:19,320 Speaker 1: I love it. I did check with Tracy Usually if 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: something comes up and we think the other might be interested, 23 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: we'll say like, hey, I'm the thing about wearing on 24 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: this are you? And Tracy was like, well I had 25 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: him on a list. I was like, oh, then I 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: won't do it. She said, no, I haven't touched it 27 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: in years. Go ahead, So not a priority. I mean 28 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 1: every once in a while I would kind of return 29 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: to it and then just get distracted by something else. 30 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: And similarly, the thing that was really drawing me to 31 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: it was the questions around his disappearance and death. Yeah, 32 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: it's um, it is interesting. So I I mentioned during 33 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: the episode that I wanted to talk a little bit 34 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: about press coverage of it and also the way his 35 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: family and colleagues talked about it, like they were so 36 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: insistent that nope, no way, not our loved one would 37 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: never ever take their own life, and that I think 38 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: is I mean, obviously it's unfortunate, Like we know, we 39 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: know now a lot more about depression and anxiety and 40 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: what leads people to do grave things. Um, but it 41 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: does sort of break my heart that, like that denial 42 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: is probably what led so many people to feel like 43 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: they could never get any help, even when help started 44 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: to be more readily available in the mental health sciences, 45 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: which is so weird. But from the journalistic standpoint, it 46 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: is such a strange and abrupt thing to me, the 47 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: way the headlines in particular change because they are very 48 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: they're much worthier when we don't know what happened to Diesel, right, 49 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: when they're like mysteries surround the disappearance of Rudolph Diesel, 50 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: no clues have become available, Um, you know, Dr Rudolph 51 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: Diesel dead. It is feared like these are literal things 52 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 1: I'm I'm reading, and then suddenly it's like Diesel was bankrupt, 53 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: and it's so almost accusatory and it's bluntness at that 54 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: point that again it's that thing of like we have 55 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: always had this culture where failure it's the worst sin, 56 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: and it's so strange to me because they're also I think, 57 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: I hope, listen, this is my Pollyanna side coming out. 58 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: I hope that there is more recognition that like failure 59 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: is really a way people can learn. Obviously, if you 60 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: fail in a way that harms others, that's a little 61 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: more grave and serious. But like, I don't know anybody 62 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: who always gets everything right. If they claim they do, 63 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: they're probably fibben um So I really I'm I have 64 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: in my my later years, certainly not when I was younger, 65 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: because I wasn't being as thoughtful about much of anything. 66 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: But you know, try to embrace the idea that failure 67 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: is not bad, it is a good thing, like you 68 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: can make peace with it and recognize that it's part 69 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: of growth. But the fact that as a society that 70 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: was not an avenue of possibility for so many people 71 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: for so many years that I really wonder how many 72 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: people found themselves in circumstances like this where they might 73 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,799 Speaker 1: have considered doing something dire or did do something dire, 74 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,239 Speaker 1: just because we had not evolved in our thinking about 75 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: such things. Just troubling, and it wouldn't help if you 76 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: were someone who was depressed and seeing the press then 77 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: drag all of his financial affairs through the pages of 78 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: their papers to sell more copies. Anyway, it just makes 79 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: me wax a little bit pensive about how we look 80 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: at celebrities, uh and inventors and scientists today and talk 81 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: about their work, because clearly this was not a person 82 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: that was um the least bit claiming he had done 83 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: things he hadn't right, He was so troubled and upset 84 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: when people were like no, but it was a mechanics 85 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: that figured out the problems, And it's like, yes, but 86 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: in a thing he created, um, you know, which was 87 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: really quite revolutionary at the time, and I think he 88 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: felt like he was being discredited, which could not have 89 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: helped any of these other issues that were going on. Anyway, 90 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: It just makes me want to be my I mean, 91 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: I try to be more thoughtful certainly than I was 92 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,559 Speaker 1: when I was younger about how I talked about anybody publicly. Um, 93 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: you don't know what you know. You're the thing you 94 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: say on even Twitter or Instagram or whatever about a person. Um, 95 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: you don't know what life that those words have beyond 96 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: your keyboard. And I think it's important to consider at 97 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: a time when we can kind of see how this 98 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: this atmosphere where things like a financial failure became sort 99 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: of gossipy and a little list us in the way 100 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: they were covered, when really that's just a thing that 101 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,159 Speaker 1: happens to people. Sometimes he made bad business decisions. No 102 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: one's arguing that, but like, yeah, I also think like 103 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, most people's minds are primed 104 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: to fill in gaps and information, and frequently there is 105 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: a big gap between the thing that happens and the 106 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: like sort of backstory yes that a person's mind will 107 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: fill in the blanks, and sometimes that invented backstory then 108 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: becomes circulated as fact and we don't actually now. Um yeah, anyway, 109 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: so that was Rudolph Diesel. There's part of me that 110 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: hopes some piece of unearthed level information appears that he 111 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: was in fact living in Canada. But I don't think 112 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,119 Speaker 1: that's going to happen alas I certainly, I mean, I 113 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: I understand the desire to to uh entertain conspiracy theories 114 00:06:55,080 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: and be like, well, isn't it interesting that sudden me 115 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: Like I The first thing that I thought the conspiracy 116 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: theorist in my brain went, do we know that he 117 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: put that black mark in his calendar? Or did somebody 118 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: else do it when they were handling? Like a lot 119 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: of things like that are still question marks. We're never 120 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: going to know really what happened to him or what 121 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: his mental state was at night. He may have been fine. 122 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: He may have slipped after folding his coat carefully and 123 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: placing it on the deck. We don't know. He may 124 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: have felt lightheaded and stumbled right. Any number of things 125 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: could have happened. But um it also is just a 126 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: good thing to challenge any assumptions that one makes. Granted, 127 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: there was a ruling in his cause of death, but 128 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: it seems like that was made without maybe a ton 129 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: of evidence one way or the other. It's okay to question. 130 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: One of our episodes this week was on Emman Caldan. 131 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: I still wish I could remember what led me to 132 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: put the extremely inadequate description of Iman Caldune, Muslim historian 133 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: onto my episode short list. I don't remember at all. Well, 134 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: that's more than I usually put on any of mine. 135 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: I just put like a name. Yeah, sometimes I put 136 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: them in the Halloween subcategory with a name, and then 137 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: I'll come back and be like, I just put this 138 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: in the wrong place. This isn't the least bit HALLOWEENI 139 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: I have clarifiers on some of the things on my 140 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: short list, and sometimes it's because like it's I say 141 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: short list, it's probably a hundred things, Like it's more 142 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: than a year worth of episodes on that short list. 143 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 1: But that means sometimes I will come back to it 144 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: when I'm trying to figure out what I want to 145 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: add to like the immediate pipeline, and I will not 146 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: remember who somebody is, and so sometimes after having that 147 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: happen once or twice, I will put in that clarifying 148 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: note to be like, this is who the person is 149 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: that I put on the list. Something we did not 150 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: really talk about that I find interesting is that, possibly 151 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: because there was a gap in how well known and 152 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: well distributed his work was from the time that he 153 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: died until it was rediscovered centuries later, a lot of 154 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: the discussion of it, particularly in terms of his work 155 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: in economics, has been more focused on like comparing him 156 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: to figures from Europe in particular, or talking about how 157 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: he sort of predicted the work of European economists. I 158 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: think we used that term at the show at one point. 159 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: There has not been as much analysis of like his 160 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: economic theories as their own thing, Like not as much 161 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: deep dive into like let's look at sort of an 162 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: even Caldoonian theory of economics and see what that means. 163 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: There's a lot more of like this is an idea 164 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: that later shows up in Adam Smith, or this is 165 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: an idea that later shows up in Reaganomics or whatever. Um. 166 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: I don't know that I would have fully understood it 167 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: had there been a lot of exploration of his economics 168 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: work as its own thing, because that is not a 169 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: field I have spent a lot of time on. Yeah. No, no, 170 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: that wouldn't wouldn't necessarily be illuminating for me. Yeah, I 171 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,319 Speaker 1: will say that I had to chuckle a little bit because, um, 172 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: as we mentioned at the beginning of that episode, right, 173 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: he lived at a time that was pretty chaotic, constantly 174 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: shifting power structures, uh, and that impacted his work. And 175 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: I was like, so, it's like academics, but but because 176 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: everyone I know that's in academia at like higher learning 177 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: institutions is always reporting how did you know drum attic 178 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: and and whatnot? Their jobs are, in their departments, various 179 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: intrigues that are going on. And I was like, it's 180 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: always been there. That's very very um diminishing view of it. 181 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: I don't mean to send any academics. I just you know, 182 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: when you're gossiping with your friends and they're like, ah, 183 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: and then this in my department chair, and then and 184 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: then this and that this person is jockeying for this, 185 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, it's like that's just say 186 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: it's always been that way. One of the things that 187 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: I've for some strange reasons remember from college, even though 188 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: this was half my life ago. At this point, I 189 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: had a humanities teacher who was in the history department, 190 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: and occasionally he would tell these stories about faculty meeting 191 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: and then he would like, part of the story was 192 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: one of the time, and then we had a knockdown, 193 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: drag out fight about it. As Like, as a student, 194 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: I was like, how can there be this many not 195 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: drag knockdown drag out fights in the history department faculty meeting. 196 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: I'm now I understand this more as an adult who has, 197 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: you know, many years of adult experience, not in academia 198 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: but in any workplace setting where people don't agree on 199 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: how to do something. But I still just kind of 200 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: part of me is like, I want to ask that guy, 201 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: what were all these not down drag out fights about it, 202 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: which at this point might would require a seance because 203 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: it's people are not with us anymore. That would be 204 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: funny a seance of academics who then get into a knockdown, 205 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: drag out fight from the afterlife. Yeah yeah, uh. Anyway, 206 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: I find I find really interesting and it's again not 207 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: atypical at all that there would have just been no 208 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: mention at all of his wife and daughters. Did he 209 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: have sons, I'm not actually sure, but he definitely had 210 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: five daughters who were killed in the shipwreck. And it's 211 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: just like his mention of them and his autobiography is 212 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: almost off hand about it. I mean, of course, I 213 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: would be like, I have not read any of this 214 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: work in the original Arabic because that is not a 215 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: language that I know, and I have heard in one 216 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: of the interviews that I listened to that was about 217 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: this work, which was with a historian who I think 218 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: speaks Arabic is a first language. Um, Like the English 219 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: translations I have heard just don't compare to what the 220 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: language of the original is like at all. Like the 221 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: original language is just a lot more poetic and meta 222 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: metaphorical in a way that a lot of the English 223 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: translations are not. But um, his description of this shipwreck 224 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: is described as almost just offhand, like it gets kind 225 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: of mentioned in passing. So it's he had so many 226 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 1: tragedies in his life apart from all of the political 227 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: chaos and instability that he was part of. You know, look, 228 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: a lot of his family to the black death, and 229 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, other friends and family members being either murdered, 230 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: murdered for political reasons or executed. Uh. And then the 231 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: loss of his wife and daughters just so much and 232 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 1: it seems like logically that would have all affected him, 233 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: and we just have no real documentation of his thoughts 234 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: on any of it. Well, and it's worth noting, right 235 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: Like you you mentioned in the episode that it was 236 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: not it would not have been unusual for writings at 237 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: the time by a scholar of his nature to to 238 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: not really focus on that. But also everybody deals with 239 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: tragedy differently, Like I definitely have family members who will 240 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: talk about someone who they were utterly devoted to and 241 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: they're passing and it's like a quick drive by mention 242 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: and then you move on. I don't think that's uncommon either, right, So, 243 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: like there are layers of like what's probably going on 244 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: in his very minimal discussions of it. Not everyone is 245 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: a big feeling sharer, so that may inform that as well. 246 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: We just don't know. Yeah, So anyway, I find them 247 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: really interesting and I'm glad I finally got to correct 248 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: my overly reductive description of him in Metal episode short 249 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: List If you want to send us a note about 250 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: this more history podcast that I heart radio dot com. 251 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: It's Friday. I hope your Friday is going well. I 252 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: hope your weekend goes well whatever is on your plate. Uh, 253 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: We'll be back Saturday with a Saturday Classic and something 254 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: brand new will be in your feet on Monday. Stuff 255 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: you Missed in History Class is a production of I 256 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: heart Radio. 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