1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: On the night of April twenty eighth, two thousand and one, 2 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,719 Speaker 1: a young woman returned to her apartment in Cleveland Heights, Ohio. 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: When two men approached. She got a brief look at 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: one of their faces before being forced inside at gunpoint. 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: They covered her face and both men raped her. They 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: also stole her purse and cell phone before fleeing the scene. 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: A rape kit was performed and the victim described the 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: one assailant she had seen, as well as his clothing. 9 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: Two days later, investigators tracked down the cell phone to 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: a man named Chris Smith, who had clothing that was 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: similar to what the victim described. Even though Chris claimed 12 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: that he bought the phone second hand, he was arrested 13 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 1: and identified. But this is wrongful conviction. Wrongful conviction has 14 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: always given voice to innocent people in prison, and now 15 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: we're expanding that voice to you us at eight three, three, 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,479 Speaker 1: two oh seven, four six sixty six, and tell us 17 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: how these stories make you feel and what you've done 18 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: to help the cause, even if it's something as simple 19 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: as telling a friend or sharing on social media. We've 20 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: really appreciated hearing from our audience so much so that 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: we've included one of the messages at the end of 22 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: this episode, So stick around for that, and if you 23 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: have something to say, we definitely want to hear it, 24 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: and you might just hear yourself in a future episode. 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: Call us eight three three, two oh seven four six 26 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: sixty six. Welcome back to Ronful Conviction, where we have 27 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: yet another case out of Cuyahoga County on the east 28 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: side of Cleveland, Ohio, where it appears that there was 29 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: evidence that should have kept our guest, Chris Miller, from 30 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: ever having been even brought to trial, much less convicted 31 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: and sentenced to sixty years. So Chris, first, let me 32 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: just say how glad I am that you're here with 33 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: us today rather than back inside where you never should 34 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: have been in the first place. Thank you and joining 35 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: him as a partner at FG and G and a 36 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: proud member of his legal team. 37 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: Jack one Green, absolutely a proud member. Thanks for having 38 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 2: me here of course. 39 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: Now, Chris, let's talk about your life before prison. Where'd 40 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: you grow up, what was your family life like? Give 41 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: us the whole background. 42 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 3: I grew up in the east side of Cleveland, Saint Claire. 43 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 3: I was raised ball women, my great grandmother Auntie, my mom, 44 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 3: and my girl cousin. My grandfather dad when I was 45 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 3: ten years old, so he was the only man at 46 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 3: the house. So eleven years old, I was the man 47 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 3: at the house, you know, dealing with with women and boyfriend. 48 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 3: And I'm fighting grown me when I was eleven years old. 49 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: I had to grew up kind of fast because my 50 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: grandfather when he dad, everything got tight. No, he was 51 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 3: the money. My grandfather was a mechanic, you know. So 52 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 3: eleven years old, I was in the streets. Then I 53 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 3: was in the streets some drugs. 54 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: Chris helped to keep the family afloat until about the 55 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: time of this crime. He was twenty four years old, 56 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: had two kids of his own and one on the way, 57 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: and he and his girlfriend needed a phone for the 58 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: new place they were moving into. And it appears that 59 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: a chance encounter one morning with a man named Dwayne 60 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: Collins had devastating effects on Chris's life. Collins approached Chris 61 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: and a man named Desmond Fletcher on a street corner 62 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: with a phone to trade for drugs. 63 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: It was a Sunday morning that with Fletcher. He gave 64 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 3: him the drugs. I just gave him the money. He 65 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 3: gave it. Due to drugs I didn't know all this 66 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 3: was coming with it. 67 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: By it, he means the phone which belonged to a 68 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: white woman who will refer to as LB. She had 69 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: survived the rape the previous night in Cleveland Heights. 70 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 2: April twenty eight, two thousand and one. LB. She's out. 71 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: She's returning home at the end of the night. She's 72 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: got a ground floor apartment in a building with a 73 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: number of units. It's a little after eleven o'clock. She 74 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: comes in through this exterior door. There's like a half 75 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 2: flight of stairs that goes down from kind of a 76 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: parking area, and you know, her doors down the hall 77 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: of it. So she goes to close the door to 78 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: apartment and she hears some voices like up, I think 79 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: on the flight of the stairs, and she turns. She 80 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: calls out. Two guys appear at the top the landing, 81 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: and of course she doesn't know who they are at 82 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,839 Speaker 2: the time. One of them comes down, grabs her arm, 83 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: holds a gun to her neck, and they force her 84 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: into the apartment at gunpoint. They put something over her 85 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 2: face during these events, so she only really saw one 86 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 2: guy briefly of the two. Then they sectually assault her, 87 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: both of them before leaving. One of them tells her, 88 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: you know, don't report the attack. They take her purse, 89 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 2: they take her cell phone, they take other items, and 90 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 2: they leave. That night. LB does go to the hospital. 91 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: There is an examination and a rape kit done, so 92 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 2: there are specimens obtained for the purpose later of testing 93 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: that is done. We end up learning there's a mixture. 94 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: There are two contributors, and she. 95 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: Did get a brief look at one of the assailants. 96 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 2: There are a couple different early reports that came to light. 97 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: The first description from LB is quote first mail as 98 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: a black mail about five eleven, one hundred and fifty 99 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: to one hundred and seventy pounds, eighteen to twenty two 100 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 2: years old, no facial hair, wearing a white T shirt 101 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: possibly with a black circle on the chest, blue jeans 102 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 2: and a green coat. 103 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 3: Six one. When I got arrested, I was like one. 104 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: Night, so Chris is or now he's taller and he's 105 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 2: brought her right. 106 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard to mix up one hundred and 107 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: fifty and one hundred and ninety pounds man. But then 108 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: somehow the clothing took on a more important role, especially 109 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: the circular pattern on his shirt. And we'll get back 110 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: to that in a bit. As the investigators moved beyond 111 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: the victim and the crime. 112 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 2: Scene, Detective Mark shit Schmid, I'm gonna say that again. 113 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: Detective Mark Schmidt of the Cleveland Heights Police Department. He comes. 114 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 2: He's now the lead detective on this case. And Schmidt 115 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: focuses on this cell phone. And there had been some 116 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: calls made from the phone overnight and then earlier in 117 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: the morning to like a number stored in the phone, 118 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: to a number from LB's little date book that was 119 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: in her purse. And then round eight o'clock in the 120 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: morning or so, the phone starts getting used pretty steadily. 121 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: And this is when Chris has the phone. 122 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 3: It's Sunday. I shouldn't even been on the corner anyway. 123 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 3: They guy walk up. You got then I got a phone. 124 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 3: I'm annoying. Hedn't found the phone down the street in 125 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 3: the field. So the dudes was after they did what 126 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 3: they Didaturday night, they rolled down through my neighborhood and 127 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 3: through the phone in the field. He was one in 128 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 3: the field to use the bathroom and heard the phone 129 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 3: ring it, so he picked it up and came up 130 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 3: on nine nine Saint Clear and sold it to me 131 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 3: for five dollars, So you know, I was using the phone. 132 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 3: It was charged up, had the phone for probably a 133 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 3: day and a. 134 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: Half, And sometime during that day and a half, Detective 135 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: Schmidt started visiting the people who had received calls from 136 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: the phone, including Chris's girlfriend. 137 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 3: When I pull off for my mother's apartment building, I 138 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 3: look at the riview she following me. I'm like, so 139 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 3: I pulled over. She said, the police came to my 140 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 3: house talking about you robbed somebody for a phone. She's like, 141 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 3: get rid of that phone. Now. They don't say nothing 142 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 3: about the rape. Then they just sayd I robbed somebody. 143 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,039 Speaker 3: When I got home, I just put it in sewer 144 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 3: right front the house when in the house. 145 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: But by then, Detective Schmid had already figured out that 146 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: Chris was the person who had this phone, which was 147 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 1: enough for him to obtain an arrest warrant on April thirtieth. 148 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 3: So I went home. I'll get my son in a bath. 149 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 3: I take a bath. I'll fall asleep a couple hours. 150 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 3: Then I hear somebody just dog in my mother doorbill. 151 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 3: I wake up on my sleep, I'm like, who is this? 152 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 3: I go down there. It's just like fifty cops. I'm like, 153 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 3: and my aunts was at the door with them and 154 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 3: was letting them in that I was coming to open 155 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: the door to see who they was. So they come 156 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 3: in the house. He like he had a warrant, so 157 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: I signed war let him search. I ain't got an 158 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 3: ass so I let him search. I was draws, no shirt, 159 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 3: no socks on. 160 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 2: How'd you get the clothes to wear to go to 161 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 2: the police station. 162 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: They dug him out the dirty clothes and made me 163 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 3: put them on. 164 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: Who gave them to you? 165 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: Schmidt? 166 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 2: So Mark Schmitt himself is the one who gives these 167 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: clothing items to Chris to wear. Remember, Mark Schmidt is 168 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: the person who had previously interviewed LB. We know about 169 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 2: that later on in the story, but at this time 170 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: Schmidt has information. He finds clothes for Chris to wear 171 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: out of the house for the arrest. 172 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 3: She said, I had a white T shirt with Circle 173 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 3: of Emotions. They went there and took a white jersey 174 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 3: with pinky purple letters Toronto Raper's jersey, Vince Carter jersey. Yeah, 175 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 3: made me put it on and said it that's that's 176 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 3: what I had on. Like, I ain't have on that, bro. 177 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 3: They just found anything and just tried to put it 178 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 3: on the Fifth Day theory. 179 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: Since Chris didn't have a green jacket like LB had described, 180 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: they chose as black one. I guess they figured that's 181 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: close enough. Now they've got Chris dressed up prime for identification, 182 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: and they dragged him from his house for what he 183 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: believes was the stolen cell phone at. 184 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 3: The MARTIALISTMS take me out of the house and put 185 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 3: me in the car. I'm so half sleep, I don't 186 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 3: even know my mother and the man even in the house. 187 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 3: My mother and Shark my daughter and walked to the 188 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 3: corner store. So by the time they come out of 189 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 3: the store, I'm in the beckseat of the police car. 190 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 3: The cop come to the car like, hey, turn your 191 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 3: legs out. He said, your daughter wants you. She was 192 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 3: five years old. Said she comes, she gets betray my 193 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 3: legs and she said, dad, what's going on? Said? They said, 194 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 3: I robbed somebody, so I shouldn't be back. You know, 195 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 3: they figure out when. 196 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: Me you're listening to Ron for Conviction. You can listen 197 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 198 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: week early and ed free by subscribing to Lava for 199 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: Good plus on Apple podcasts. 200 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 3: The night is going to happen, Me and two of 201 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: my friends rode to Harvard and leave. 202 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: There. 203 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 3: Used to be a restaurant there, a seafood restaurant called 204 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 3: Dave Servant Turf. We used to come all the way 205 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 3: across down to go there, and they had cameras in there. 206 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 3: I got to telling her, I said, man, do is 207 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 3: go to the day Surf. I'm on the cameras when 208 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 3: you walk in till the clock. I told him everything 209 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 3: I ordered, because I went in and ordered for all 210 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 3: three of us. 211 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: However, this camera footage from the time of the crime 212 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: never surfaced. Meanwhile, back at the police station, Chris was 213 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: photographed in the outfit they had chosen for him, and 214 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: his interrogation continued. 215 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: This goes through the nighttime. Detective Schmidt keeps coming to you, 216 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 2: Chris right, and trying to question you, question you repeatedly 217 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 2: over the course of the night. Every time you told 218 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: me before Right you were about to fall asleep, he'd 219 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 2: come back in and pull you out to question you 220 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: some more, you know, just trying to wear Chris down, 221 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: trying to get him to say something, you know, that 222 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 2: would implicate him. 223 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 3: I didn't have no tell him I didn't do nothing 224 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 3: like a ball the phone. 225 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: The following day, the victim came in to make an identification, 226 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: but curiously, instead of viewing a liveline, investigators chose to 227 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: show her a photo array. 228 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: So the photo array contains a photograph of Chris from 229 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 2: his arrest, wearing this shirt that Schmidt has handed to 230 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: him that has this, you know, kind of design on it. 231 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 3: But I also think everybody else in Atlanta had on 232 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 3: County orange. 233 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, you look different than the other pictures. So that's 234 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 2: another piece of the puzzle here, right. So LB looks 235 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 2: at this array of photos for like four or five minutes, 236 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 2: is what the record show. That's a while, you know, 237 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 2: to look and think. Eventually she ends up picking out Chris. 238 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: Chris is arrested based on the phone, but then on 239 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,599 Speaker 2: the identification. This is what leads to him being charged 240 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: with multiple counts of rape, aggravated robbery, aggravated burglary, kidnapping, 241 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 2: intimidation of Filoniu's assault, the. 242 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 3: Saying they put me in a Cleveland Heights. It was 243 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 3: a board outside the window, so anytime I looked up 244 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 3: out the window, you got all my name and all 245 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 3: them charges. I'm like when I see what I was 246 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 3: in there because they said robbery, I see the try. 247 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 3: I'm like man with a rape and all that come for. 248 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 2: This identification from Schmidt to LB is the through line 249 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 2: to how Chris then ends up wrapped up in this 250 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 2: criminal case he had nothing to do with. 251 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: Not only was this a cross racial misidentification, which study 252 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,719 Speaker 1: after study after study have shown are less accurate than 253 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: guessing yeah, you heard that right, but then further suggestion 254 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: was added through this careful selection of clothing by detective Shit, don't. 255 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 2: Please, don't put that on you. That was an accident? 256 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 3: Was it? 257 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: I can't help my subconscious, okay, but really accident. 258 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: At this point, the case was as good as closed. 259 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: Except for the rape kit. So far, we just know 260 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: that there had been two contributors. 261 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 2: At the time, they use what was new technology is 262 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: str DNA testing. That's primitive compared to what we've got 263 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: available as technology at the current. So they test the 264 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 2: samples in the rape kit. There's a mixture. There are 265 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 2: two contributors, and only one contributor could be identified at 266 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 2: the times with the str DNA testing. What we knew 267 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: is the contributor was a single mail profile Chris was 268 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: excluded from being that particular contributor, so he's not that guy. 269 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: There is another contributor, though, right, and that second contributor 270 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 2: was determined to have been an azospermatic contributor. 271 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: So the guy had a low sperm count. 272 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: Chris doesn't have that problem. Chris, you know, gave his 273 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 2: DNA to write for comparison. 274 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: He was excluded from the spermatic contributor by the DNA 275 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: testing and then excluded as the other contributor by logic. 276 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: He didn't have a low sperm count, so this should 277 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: have ended the madness right then and there, but instead 278 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 1: they tried to square the circle. 279 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 3: Said they found DNA on my jersey didn't match her. 280 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 2: They tried to test your clothes for cat hairs, hoping 281 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: they would match Elbie's cats. 282 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 3: Right, because my mother had cats that didn't match. Dude, 283 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 3: I don't know this lady. He wasn't me. 284 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: You can hear about hair comparison on Wrongful Conviction Junk 285 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: Science that'll be linked in the episode description. So while 286 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: they were tinkering around with fucking cat hair, Chris awaited 287 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: trial from jail for a year and a half and 288 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: then in Walks's public defender who instead of trying to 289 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: track down the restaurant camera footage or hiring an expert 290 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: to explain that Chris was ruled out of being a 291 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: contributor in the rape kit, she relayed the prosecutions deal 292 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 1: cop out an idea, you're alleged accomplice. 293 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 3: She just kept trying to give me to come out 294 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 3: to seven years. I'm like, I'm not coming on those 295 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 3: sel years. They want to give you a long time. 296 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 3: I said, well, they give me all of it. I 297 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 3: ain't about scoping those seven years. I ain't do I said, man, 298 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 3: get out of here. 299 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 2: You were not going to stand down. And at a 300 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 2: certain point, you know, before you're getting ready to go 301 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: to trial, your lawyer puts on the record she's told 302 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 2: you about the plea deal, right, and you've refused it. 303 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 2: You're continuing to say you're innocent. The court talked to 304 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,599 Speaker 2: you right and wanted to make sure you understood the 305 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 2: risks to go into trial. 306 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 3: I mean, they was trying to take my life for 307 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 3: somebody to do something. But I'm like, I got a fight. 308 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 3: I can't lay down like that. Man. I couldn't. Then 309 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 3: it was too much time. I'm like, hey, and I 310 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 3: didn't do nothing like I'm not gonna see here just 311 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 3: copp out to something. At least if I go to 312 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 3: trial Va Louse, I could still fight it. You know 313 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 3: what I'm saying. 314 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: That's the fucked up math that Chris and so many 315 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: other men and women are forced to do. I mean, 316 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: deciding whether or not to roll the dice on what 317 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: could happen as a result of taking a case to trial. 318 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: And for Chris, this was a trial that should have 319 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: never even happened. If he was azospermatic, maybe they could 320 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: have said he was the second contributor, but he didn't 321 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: have a low sperm count. Nevertheless, trial began in January 322 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: two thousand and two, and this is what the state 323 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: had to present. 324 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 2: It was made in the phone and the id ID 325 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: and that was it right. 326 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 3: Everything they did. It wasn't nothing from my fingerprints. K here. 327 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: I really can't with this. I mean the fucking cat 328 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: hair like. 329 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: So no physical evidence connecting Chris to the crime whatsoever. 330 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: Then it appears that maybe the prosecutor knew the case 331 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: was weak considering how he argued the case. 332 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 2: I'm going to just read a quote from the prosecutor 333 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 2: from the opening statements. He goes several days later when 334 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: he's arrested with some of the same clothing on that 335 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 2: she had described to Detective Schmidt that he had on 336 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: that night. And listen carefully. She will describe for you 337 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 2: the clothing that he was wearing and some of that 338 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: same clothing he had on a couple days later when 339 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: he was arrested, and the prosecutor tells the jury that 340 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 2: LB will talk to you very specifically about what she 341 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 2: saw with regard to the clothing. 342 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: Up until this point, we've been referring to LB's initial 343 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: description of the clothes blue jeans, white T shirt with 344 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: a circular pattern in black, and a green jacket. However, 345 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 1: this initial description was not shared with the defense, so 346 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: they didn't have it in order to impeach her trial testimony, and. 347 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 2: So in the trial, LB identifies this black jean jacket 348 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 2: as the one that the perpetrator wore that night. LB 349 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 2: describes the attacker who had the gun right in this duo. 350 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 2: She describes him as having now a V neck shirt 351 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 2: with a half circle. The writing she testified was his 352 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 2: half circle, and it looked to be like what she 353 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 2: said was the state's exhibit, which was your Raptor's jersey, 354 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 2: albeit admits that she's only seen one of the attackers briefly, 355 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: but she testified at the trial she was confident that 356 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 2: her identification of Chris was right. 357 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, she got up there and point me on. He 358 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 3: was on top of me. I'm like wow. 359 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: But Chris was excluded by the DNA evidence as one 360 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: contributor as well as the azospermatic designation of the second. 361 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 2: So forensic asper testify there's no physical evidence, including Danna 362 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: her figure Princess, specifically tie Chris to this crime. Lena 363 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: testifies she saw Chris at home that night. 364 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: Lena was Chris's girlfriend, and then two more alibi witnesses 365 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: were presented, starting with the guy he was with when 366 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: he got the phone, Desman Fletcher. 367 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 2: But there were some little discrepancies in his story from 368 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 2: what really happened. 369 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 3: He let the the texts them scare him, like he 370 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 3: don't remember what due had on. He had them all black, Dude, 371 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 3: you don't remember what he had on? The say that 372 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 3: he had MUNI already knew he gonna come here and 373 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 3: say something like he messed up, like he don't remember, 374 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 3: all right, knew that I said, cause lit Yes, him 375 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 3: Munity Rustling walked down the al I'm like, fuck, you 376 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 3: got muney phone five piece? What is gonna plump his 377 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 3: stomach for a five dollar piece? Of eighteen's ago. 378 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: Since the official story went that Fletcher sold Dwayne Collins 379 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: crack after Colin sold Chris the phone, it appears that 380 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: they were holding drug charges over Fletcher's head while he testified, 381 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: and who knows what effect that had on his truthfulness 382 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,119 Speaker 1: or his appearance to the jury. However, they were able 383 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: to locate Dwayne Collins. 384 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 3: I'll say, if I would have never met him, I 385 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 3: wouldn't be here. Man. He had to fall first, so 386 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:33,719 Speaker 3: y'all should have him here. When they brought him in there, 387 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 3: Dwayne Kylas told him that he sold me the phone 388 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 3: and everything. I'm going home, And. 389 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: It appears the jury didn't have an easy time with it. 390 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: On one hand, you had a definitive identification from the victim, 391 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: who also said that the clothes Chris was wearing when 392 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: he was arrested with a clothes worn by the assailant. 393 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: But then there was a plausible story about the phone 394 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: as well as DNA testing and the azos pramatic contributor 395 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: that excluded Chris, but maybe that was just about confusing 396 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: enough for the jury to totally misunderstand. 397 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 2: The jury deliberated for three days in this case. It's 398 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 2: a long time. There was clearly a struggle to determine 399 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 2: what the outcome was going to be in this case. 400 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,239 Speaker 2: But eventually they came to a verdict aggravated burglary, two 401 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 2: counts of rape with a sexually violent predator specification, as 402 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: well as aggravated robbery, kidnapping, flowings of salt intimidation along 403 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 2: with firearms specifications for all this stuff. And this too 404 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 2: is at a time in Ohio where you hit a 405 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 2: specific year's sentence, right, so you get what you get. 406 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 2: It's not like you serve ten and then you get 407 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 2: a chance to go to the parole board and see 408 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 2: if you serve the rest. It wasn't like that at 409 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 2: the time Chris was in prison on this sentencing regime 410 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 2: in Ohio. 411 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 3: Well, you know, they came back in they made like guilty. 412 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 3: I'm like, mentally, I wasn't even there. It took me 413 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 3: months before and realize so much time. I got man 414 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 3: forty years flat. Then sink in it won real too. 415 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 3: I had to go through the sex program with all 416 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 3: the rapists and sex offenders all over Ohio. There was 417 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 3: some weird motherfucker said, hear me this guy next door. 418 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 3: I ain't no, but I kept asking the guy I 419 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 3: was the selling, like man, why that lady on? What 420 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 3: you going there and sell? A couple of days the 421 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 3: dude taught me said, just standing the door, y'alls to watch. 422 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 3: So I stood in the door while she tearing the 423 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 3: sail up she had was doing collides. I said, oh, 424 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 3: this dude tripping. He was cuttings as of girls. He 425 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 3: cut him off the paper and they underwear and all that. 426 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 3: After the shopping sparked making colliges. That was a wake 427 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 3: up call, cause it's a it's a dorm for the 428 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 3: sex offender. That's for real, That's all it is. It 429 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 3: was guys like my age, nineteen twenty years old. It 430 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 3: was fireman in there cocks. That was the weirdest shit 431 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 3: I ever went through my life. 432 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, violence against women finds a home in seemingly every 433 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: walk of life. In fact, it turned out that the 434 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: pervasionists of violence against women even became an issue with 435 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 1: Christ's jury for post conviction. 436 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 3: Well jew said, oh, he looked he looked guilty when 437 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 3: I came in, getting to kind of found out she 438 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 3: was in the rape for Robert case herself, so she 439 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 3: shouldn't have been on the jury. So when they bring 440 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 3: me back from the EVERDJ here the prostitutent that got 441 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 3: to the lady. Now that they're told on everybody, they'll 442 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 3: mess with her. Now she don't even want to talk. 443 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: And so that issue didn't pan out for Chris after 444 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: his initial denials. A bit of serendipity worked in Chris's favor. 445 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: In two thousand and four. 446 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 2: So Ohio a Bureau of Criminal Investigation and Identification also 447 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: known as BCI. They have this database access to DNA profiles, 448 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 2: and they turn up a hit to one of the 449 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 2: male DNA profiles from the LB rape kit in the 450 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 2: Federal Code of database. It matches a guy named Richard 451 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: Marlin Stadmeire. 452 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: Like with most of these cases, while the state is 453 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: busy prosecuting an innocent person, the actual assailants remained free 454 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: to commit more heinous acts. It's almost like the tax 455 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: dollars that we pay are funding a system that protects 456 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: the actual perpetrators while they go about framing innocent people. 457 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: So while detective Schmidt was putting around with cat hairs. 458 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 1: Another rape and robbery happened in May two thousand and one. 459 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just about three weeks after the LB rape. 460 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 2: In May two thousand and one, Stadmeire and another guy 461 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 2: were arrested and charged with sexual assault and battery. Is 462 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 2: about only five miles away from where Albe's apartment was 463 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 2: in Mayfield Hights, Ohio. Wow. And in that other case, 464 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 2: the perpetrators ambush the victim, held a gun to her neck, 465 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 2: They forced her under her car, and they sexually assaulted 466 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 2: and robbed her. And Stadmeyer was caught quickly for that case. 467 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 2: He was convicted in March of two thousand and two. 468 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 2: The other man involved turned out to Stadmeyer's friend and accomplice, 469 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 2: Charles Boyd. And Boyd in that case he pled guilty 470 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 2: to the Mayfield Heights attack and. 471 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 3: He had to. When they take the chick to the ATM, 472 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 3: the camera and the ATM called us tattoo. 473 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 2: He got a lenient sentence in exchange for testifying against 474 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 2: Dadmire at trial. 475 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 3: In that one serial predators man. 476 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 2: Going back to Chris's case, remember there were two DNA profiles. 477 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 2: Stadmeire matched the one that Chris had already been excluded 478 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 2: from right, the azospomatic contributor still remains unidentified at that point. Now, 479 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: of course, Charles Boyd should have been the obvious person 480 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 2: to go test and compare and try to see if 481 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,160 Speaker 2: he's that second person, given this other case from three 482 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 2: weeks later, five miles away. 483 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: Instead, Detective Schmidt once again tried to fit that same 484 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: old square peg into the round hole. 485 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 2: Detective Schmidt goes and interviews Stadmeyre and Boyd. Right, both 486 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 2: guys were initially not cooperative. They denied involvement in the 487 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: LB attack. Schmidt shows both men pictures of Chris Miller 488 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: at the time Boyd was Mansfield. He confirmed at that 489 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 2: time that he didn't know Chris, he only recognized him 490 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 2: as another guy in the same prison. Stadmeyer also looked 491 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 2: at the photo array told Schmidt he couldn't identify anybody. 492 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 2: Several weeks later, Schmidt goes back and reinterviews Boyd, and 493 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 2: at this point in time, miraculously Boyd comes around. He 494 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 2: admits he's part of the attack against delb. He can 495 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 2: describe Lbe's apartment with a lot of detail, but he's 496 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 2: adamant that he never actually went in the apartment and 497 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 2: instead he was just the lookout guy while Stadmeyer and 498 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 2: Chris went in and raped del B. Boyd claimed that 499 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 2: he had only met Chris a few hours before the 500 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 2: attack against Delb and that after the rape, he and 501 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 2: stan Meyer went up to a club to split the 502 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 2: proceeds from the robbery, and Chris simply disappeared on foot, 503 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: you know, miles away from where Chris lived. 504 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 3: Phanom I'll want none of the money. I'm cool. 505 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes no sense, he. 506 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 3: Said, his friend brought me to him. You'll free of 507 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 3: bringing me to you. You just wanna go rob somebody 508 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 3: with me? 509 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 2: You won't know me. Come on, that's crazy, right. 510 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: We can only guess how Schmidt got Boyd to change 511 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: his story. 512 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 2: Well, let me shed maybe a little bit of light 513 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 2: on that. You can make some inferences if you want. 514 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 2: This is something that came out in our subsequent civil case. 515 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 2: So again, even at the time of the exoneration, nobody 516 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 2: knew this yet. We in our civil case got an 517 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,120 Speaker 2: affidavit from Richard Stadmeyer about when Schmidt came to see him, 518 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 2: and so I'm going to read you some of the 519 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 2: things that he says. At some point in two thousand 520 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: and four. Two thousand and five, I met with the 521 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 2: Tecta Schmidt in another officer. Detecta Schmidt showed me a 522 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 2: card with two rows of photographs. I told the tectave 523 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 2: Schmidt that I did not know anyone in the photographs. 524 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 2: Detective Schmidt called me a smart ass and said, are 525 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,719 Speaker 2: you sure you don't know c. Mills. Detective Schmidt then 526 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 2: showed me the photographs again and pointed out a photograph 527 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 2: of a man. I did not recognize the man in 528 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 2: the photograph. I later learned that the man in the 529 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 2: photograph was Christopher Miller. Detectave Schmidt told me to quote 530 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 2: make this easier on myself. I understood that Detective Schmidt 531 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 2: was telling me that if I identified Chris Miller from 532 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 2: his photograph as the rapist, then he would help me. 533 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 2: Detective Schmidt said he knew that Christopher Miller was the 534 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 2: rapist and asked if I was just to look out. 535 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 2: I again told him I do not know Christopher Miller. 536 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 2: Detectave Schmidt became angry and frustrated. Detecta Schmidt threatened me 537 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: that he was going to talk with Charles Boyd and 538 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 2: say that Boyd would be eager to give up information. 539 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 2: So I think there's some assumptions we could make about 540 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: how his conversation with BOYD went to that come out 541 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 2: of that. Sadmar's indicted rape, robbery, kidnapping, all of these things. 542 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 2: He pleads not guilty. He goes to trial. Of course, 543 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 2: Chris testifies at the Sammar trial, basically again asserting her 544 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 2: innocence and being like, I don't know anything about any of. 545 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 3: This, right, well, I don't know them. Now he got stall, 546 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 3: he told him, like I don't know him. He went 547 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 3: with us, the prosecutor. You get to cussing me out, 548 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 3: like why am I trying to get you out? Why 549 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 3: are you trying to get you out? Saying, man, I 550 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 3: ain't due with bro. That's all I can tell you. 551 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 3: I didn't do it. 552 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: I don't know. 553 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 3: I don't know them dues, and they just send me 554 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 3: back to the BOD. 555 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 2: Now, remember LB, and everything we've ever heard has always 556 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 2: been consistent. There are only two guys involved in this attack. Now, 557 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 2: Schmidt saying on the stand, even though he testified in 558 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,239 Speaker 2: Chris's trial about her telling him about two attackers, now 559 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 2: it's sad Meireer's trial. He's saying, he told me there 560 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 2: were three guys. And he's pressed about this. He says 561 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 2: about LB quote is not her responsibility to remember the 562 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 2: facts of the case, which is just wild. 563 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: On June twelfth, two thousand and six, Dad Meyer got 564 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: an additional forty three years. Chris's conviction was strengthened by 565 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: what appears to have been perjured testimony, and Boyd took 566 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: a five year sentence for his alleged role as a lookout. 567 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 2: And concurrent with the case he was already serving, right. 568 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. 569 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: In two thousand and seven, Chris tried to get a 570 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: new trial on the Code has Hit, but the motion 571 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: was denied. Meanwhile, the OHIO In Thisis Project began investigating 572 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: Chris's innocence claims. 573 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 2: Sometimes you can request a set of records from a 574 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 2: place and not get anything useful or new, and you 575 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 2: request the same set you know later on right, and 576 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 2: you're going to get different stuff. Sometimes that's what happens. 577 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 2: In twenty sixteen, though, when things really break, because that's 578 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 2: when they finally they get a response to a public 579 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 2: records request that they've sent. It includes new police reports, 580 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 2: new notes, handwritten notes from Schmidt written shortly after the 581 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 2: attack on LB being disclosed for the very first time. 582 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 2: These reports and these notes contained exculpatory evidence, and they 583 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 2: show that Schmidt has presented false and fabricated evidence to 584 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: the prosecutors and during the trial and given false testimony 585 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 2: throughout the course of this case. 586 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 1: This is when they discovered LB's initial description of the 587 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: attackers close and how that changed to align with what 588 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: Schmid had pulled from Chris's hamper and closet. 589 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 2: And this now forms the basis for new post conviction 590 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: filings for Chris that his counsel, Brian Howe of the 591 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 2: Ohio Innocence Project filed for him, and that included an 592 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 2: application for DNA testing, a motion for new trial, and 593 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 2: a petition for post conviction relief. 594 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: The latter two were stayed, while newer and more sensitive 595 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: DNA testing for the azosbramatic contributor moved forward. 596 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 3: Neil Brien was just talking two or three times a week. 597 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 3: You know, we've been waiting on the DNA. 598 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 2: May thirty one, twenty eighteen, BCI issues that report. Lo 599 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 2: and Behold comes back. It's Charles Boyd. 600 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 3: Sort of lose a full life news on. Everybody in 601 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 3: the dorm gonna wait me up, man, you're on a TV, 602 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 3: but I got my headphones on something like what he like, 603 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 3: stand up? So when I stood up out my faces 604 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 3: on everybody TV in the door, I'm like, so he 605 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 3: turned my TV to try to wait on watching him 606 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 3: like man, I was. He got a kicking and hind 607 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 3: the walls. I was like, whoa, that was real. Then 608 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 3: the CEOs like they were sitting in the dudes from 609 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 3: they blocks, go get see meals, tell him come over here, 610 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 3: like I know you didn't do that. You ain't your character? 611 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 3: You know? 612 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: Man? 613 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 3: That was so surreal. Then Brian come see me go 614 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 3: in the room. Brian got his note bad I'm reading 615 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 3: upside down. He got his questious like where I want 616 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 3: to eat? Like I'm kind of like, I mean tears now, 617 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 3: like you know, yeah, that was awesome. 618 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 2: Man. 619 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 3: That dude fought he used to come see me on 620 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 3: the regular. Man, I got so much love for her, like, 621 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 3: ain't my family? You know that DNA coming back was 622 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 3: the best thing that ever happened to me. 623 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: Amen to that. So where'd you go to eat? 624 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 3: Real lobster? I met all the guys, all the other things. 625 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 3: Nanner reeves that day was like I can't believe that 626 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 3: I was out to this day is still like is 627 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 3: emotional to me. 628 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: Chris was soon reunited with his children. 629 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 3: You know, my oldest daughter, she stayed with me. My 630 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 3: three grandkids and my son stayed next door because I 631 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 3: bought my mother house next door to me, So my 632 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 3: mother and my son stayed next door, and me and 633 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,719 Speaker 3: my daughter and my grandkid had stayed house next door. 634 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: His eldest daughter was the five year old little girl 635 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: who had run to her father handcuffed in the back 636 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: of the squad car on April thirtieth, two thousand and one. 637 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: There's no amount of money that could make up for 638 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: that lost time, but at least the civil suit made 639 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: it possible to afford the house Chris just mentioned, but 640 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,479 Speaker 1: not before he had to face Detective Schmidt. 641 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 3: You know, I can't face the face with him. I 642 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 3: got he was in the room for two hours and 643 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 3: didn't even say nothing. 644 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 2: Turn your deposition. 645 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 3: He was in the room with me and Sarah for 646 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 3: two hours, shook my hand and anything. When I walked 647 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 3: in there, when his lawyer said, yeah, my client, Mark Smith. 648 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 3: When I heard that name, I said who, he said, Marshman, 649 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 3: I said where he said? He nodded his head doing 650 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 3: and when I looked at him, I looked at him 651 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 3: his head and I just everything came back. All I 652 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 3: remember he had, he got the little psoriasisting on his 653 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 3: elbows and all on his hands. But the whole time 654 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 3: in the room he looking out the window like this. 655 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, and you you didn't recognize him 656 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 2: at first. So and it has a party to a lawsuit, 657 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 2: you have a right two at ten depositions, But you 658 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 2: also have a choice about whether you come to stuff 659 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 2: like that. And I got a lot of cases where 660 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 2: you know, those officers don't show up. Mark Sant he 661 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 2: decided he was going to come to this one, you know. 662 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 3: The social path. 663 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: Well, at least he had the good sense to look away. 664 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 3: I said, why you won't look at me? Dude? These 665 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 3: a piece of ship. 666 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 2: Going through these lawsuits is awful. I mean, it's obviously 667 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 2: fathomably awful to be in prison for a crime you 668 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 2: didn't commit and then seeking vindication through civil rights cases 669 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 2: in the aftermath. Is it keeps the wound open, and 670 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 2: it's like rubbing salt in the wound. And then you 671 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 2: got to sit in the room and be polite to 672 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 2: these people who took away years and years of your life. 673 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 3: You know his lords won't be out of light. 674 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: No, they're not. So is there anything you'd like to 675 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: ask from our audience. 676 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 3: Just know that this could happen to anybody. Happening. Your brother's, 677 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 3: your sisters, your mom. You're happening, and they're you're not 678 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 3: going to stop. So the people's jail, you know, it's 679 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 3: still dues in there doing the rest of their life. 680 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: There is there anyone in particular that's coming to mind 681 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 1: right now. 682 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 3: There's a lot of guys. The Anthony Johnson, he's still 683 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 3: in there. They stole all his evidence. 684 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: Anthony Johnson. All right, well, let's talk after this about Anthony. 685 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: And with that we're gonna go to my favorite part 686 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: of the show. It's called closing arguments, where I first 687 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: thank you both from the bottom of my heart for 688 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: joining us, and then I'm just gonna kick back in 689 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: my chair, close my eyes and listen to anything else 690 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: you feel is left to be said. So let's start 691 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: with Jacqueline and then Chris, you take us off into 692 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: the sunset. 693 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 2: I think the conduct of Mark Schmidt in this case, 694 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 2: it's one of the worst kinds of police misconduct where 695 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 2: he was so hell bent on getting and then keeping 696 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 2: a conviction that he was willing to manipulate other people 697 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 2: and to lie on the stand. And there's no denying that, 698 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 2: because there's two sets of testimony that are totally different. 699 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 2: You know, we have these records in his own handwriting 700 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 2: that make that clear. And it just goes to I 701 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 2: think the really deeply rooted problems in our criminal legal 702 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 2: system where winning is so often more important than the truth, 703 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 2: and what justice are we serving and how are we 704 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 2: in any way serving our communities or our societies if 705 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 2: that's what our legal system is set up to do 706 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 2: and the players in it are attempting to do. I'm 707 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 2: so glad that the truth came to light in this case, 708 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 2: but I'm also just so enraged and sad that Chris 709 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 2: had to live through this hell. You know, before that happened. 710 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 2: You know, he's not the only one, Like he just said, 711 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 2: there are other people. There are a lot of other 712 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 2: people who've lived the same kind of hell. We have 713 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 2: to demand better, we have to demand different, We have 714 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 2: to radically change the way our legal system works or 715 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 2: this kind of thing is going to keep happening. So 716 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 2: I appreciate that we got here, but we have hell 717 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 2: a lot of work to do. 718 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 3: It's been a hard fight. I ain't never really been 719 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 3: quitter never, so I don't I don't know about quitting, 720 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 3: you know. And the prosecutors they need to start getting 721 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 3: some some you know, they need something, needapping in for 722 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 3: just sending people to jail like that. It's like just 723 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 3: sending people jail with no evidence, no nothing, you know, 724 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 3: like people fucked my life up, you know, even though 725 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 3: I'm finding notally able to live, wonder my life still 726 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 3: fucking GOSDT, anxieties, this other stuff, mental health, but I'm 727 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 3: able to deal with it. My man never raised me 728 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 3: later out so I can't take care of my family 729 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 3: and try to enjoy the rest of his life. I got. 730 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 3: You know, it's a free man because I wasn't living. 731 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 3: I was I wasn't living in there. I wasn't living. 732 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrong for Conviction. You can 733 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcast 734 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: us one week early by subscribing to Lava for Good 735 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team, 736 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 1: Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow 737 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cleiburn. The 738 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: music in this production was supplied by three time Oscar 739 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across 740 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at 741 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at 742 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava 743 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One. 744 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 4: My name is Laura Asil. Your podcast has actually had 745 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 4: a profound impact on my life. I happened to pawn 746 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 4: your podcast about five years ago, and at that time, 747 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 4: I thought, like a lot of people, that if you 748 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,720 Speaker 4: were in prison, you did something wrong and you're guilty. 749 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 4: I never, in a million years thought that prosecutors and 750 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 4: detective I just never thought they could get away with 751 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,600 Speaker 4: all the stuff that they've gotten away with. And from 752 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 4: there I started getting interested in a lot of other 753 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 4: social issues because I think the criminal justice system really, 754 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 4: in my mind, is kind of a snapshot of racism 755 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 4: and classism and all those kinds of things. When I 756 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 4: started listening to your podcast, I would probably have labeled 757 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 4: myself a conservative. I am now a registered Democrat and 758 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 4: someone who is very active in my community. I volunteer 759 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 4: in the criminal justice system. I volunteer to help put 760 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 4: Democrat candidates in office. I don't think that anybody would 761 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 4: have had on my BINGO card that I would have 762 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 4: been a volunteer for any Democrat ever, and that my 763 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 4: politics would completely completely change and the way I thought 764 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 4: about a lot of things completely changed. So I want 765 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,919 Speaker 4: to thank you for opening up my eyes. I want 766 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 4: to thank all your wonderful guests for sharing their stories 767 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 4: and being people who forced me to listen. Like I said, 768 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 4: my whole outlook and everything on the whole world our 769 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 4: country completely changed, and it started just by listening to 770 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 4: one episode of your podcast.