1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,719
Speaker 1: She said she was in the Hell's Angels for a while.

2
00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:04,519
Speaker 2: Wow, this woman does sound intriguing.

3
00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:05,480
Speaker 1: She claimed she was a.

4
00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:08,280
Speaker 3: Werewolf, So I'm believing the Hell's Angel thing a little

5
00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:08,760
Speaker 3: bit less.

6
00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,680
Speaker 4: A lot of things that may or may not have

7
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:12,280
Speaker 4: been true.

8
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,920
Speaker 2: You've never met a Cherokee Hell's Angel wolf. Come on.

9
00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:18,840
Speaker 5: If you have your own story of being in a

10
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,680
Speaker 5: cult or a high control group.

11
00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,720
Speaker 3: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

12
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 3: that you'd like to share.

13
00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 5: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

14
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,280
Speaker 5: four seven eight six trust.

15
00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 3: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

16
00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,839
Speaker 5: Or showed us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

17
00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,199
Speaker 6: Trust me, Trust me.

18
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:41,920
Speaker 5: I'm like a swad person.

19
00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:43,040
Speaker 1: I've never lived.

20
00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:44,560
Speaker 4: To you.

21
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,239
Speaker 5: If you think that.

22
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,600
Speaker 3: One person has all the answers, don't welcome to trust Me.

23
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:52,479
Speaker 7: The podcast about cults.

24
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,360
Speaker 3: Extreme belief and manipulation from two cosmic witches who've actually

25
00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:57,000
Speaker 3: experienced it.

26
00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,600
Speaker 2: I'm low LeBlanc and I am Megan Elizabeth.

27
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,720
Speaker 3: Today our guests are Camille and Trillium. These are two

28
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,840
Speaker 3: women who were members of a Southern coffin that became

29
00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 3: extremely culty. You guys, I am so glad that Camille

30
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,520
Speaker 3: reached out because this I feel like we have never

31
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,679
Speaker 3: had anything quite like this one. This is a pretty

32
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,959
Speaker 3: unique story. Okay, they'll each share how they joined the coven.

33
00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,920
Speaker 3: What it's charismatic leader, whom we'll call Kathy, was like,

34
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,800
Speaker 3: the dubious claims Kathy made about her powers and the

35
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,680
Speaker 3: elaborate course she designed to keep everyone in the group

36
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,400
Speaker 3: always working to get to her level shivers.

37
00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,920
Speaker 5: We'll get into how Kathy tried to isolate them from

38
00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,920
Speaker 5: their loved ones, how Camille was ostracized from the group

39
00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,160
Speaker 5: when she told the truth about Kathy's son's harmful behavior,

40
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,920
Speaker 5: and the various ways Kathy would try to mess with them,

41
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,280
Speaker 5: including calling CPS to try to take away Trillium's own son.

42
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 6: Oh el fuck this witch.

43
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, plus how their shared experiences brought them together despite

44
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 3: being pitted against each other while they were still in

45
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:56,360
Speaker 3: the group.

46
00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,200
Speaker 6: This is yeah, this is good. I'm excited for this one.

47
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 3: Sam, all right, before we dive in, Megan, please tell

48
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:03,240
Speaker 3: me what the couldies thing that happened to you this

49
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:03,680
Speaker 3: week was?

50
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 5: All right? Well, I just read an article of that

51
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,320
Speaker 5: really blew my mind. It's from Brazil. I think it

52
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,639
Speaker 5: was around nineteen eighties when this started happening.

53
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:16,160
Speaker 2: There is a woman.

54
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,680
Speaker 5: Who told people she was talking to aliens and they

55
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,239
Speaker 5: told her that every man born after nineteen eighty one

56
00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:25,800
Speaker 5: was inherently evil.

57
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,120
Speaker 6: They told her, or she told them.

58
00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,040
Speaker 2: They told her the aliens.

59
00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 6: Oh, the aliens told her. Oh yeah, yeah, okay, got it.

60
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,720
Speaker 2: The aliens told her, Lola, keep up. The aliens told.

61
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:41,079
Speaker 5: Her it's a true story, and every boy after nineteen

62
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,640
Speaker 5: eighty one evil, which sure, I can get behind that.

63
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 5: But what she decided to do was to castrate and

64
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 5: murder them. She did this to nineteen people, and they

65
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,800
Speaker 5: started noticing when they were finding some of the bodies, like, Wow,

66
00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:02,079
Speaker 5: the person castrating them isn't just like you know Texas

67
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,639
Speaker 5: Chainsaw massacre, crazy person.

68
00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:05,560
Speaker 2: This is a doctor.

69
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,960
Speaker 5: And the people that were involved were two surgeons, a

70
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,920
Speaker 5: pretty big businessman, and she got away with it. She

71
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,520
Speaker 5: fled the country and then when she got back to

72
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,799
Speaker 5: face I guess the court system, they finally got her.

73
00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 5: She was able to prove that she was never there

74
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:28,840
Speaker 5: at any of the actual killings. So Valentina di Andred

75
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:30,280
Speaker 5: was freed.

76
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,760
Speaker 6: Oh my god, I didn't know that part.

77
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

78
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:34,239
Speaker 6: Wow.

79
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,320
Speaker 3: This was called the Superior Universal Alignment UFO called if

80
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:39,560
Speaker 3: anyone wants to google.

81
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,440
Speaker 6: It, Jesus Christ. Right, do we know if she's alive?

82
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 2: You know, it kind of sounds like she is.

83
00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,160
Speaker 5: I didn't actually look that up, but it says that

84
00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:55,960
Speaker 5: she is living free in Brazil and that she's happy

85
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,360
Speaker 5: as a peg and chit.

86
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:02,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no clear answer on whether she is still alive,

87
00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 3: but that there's Oh okay. It was called the Altimira

88
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,080
Speaker 3: Child Emasculations.

89
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,240
Speaker 6: That's fucking horrible. Do you know the boys? Do you

90
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,480
Speaker 6: know how old the boys were? Yeah? Little aged eight

91
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:13,480
Speaker 6: to fourteen?

92
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:20,640
Speaker 3: Tortured eight to fourteen, Oh my god, tortured. That's fucking insane.

93
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,880
Speaker 3: How is this not something that everybody knows about?

94
00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:23,600
Speaker 6: That's wild.

95
00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,200
Speaker 3: I think people just get really fixated on American cults

96
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,800
Speaker 3: and because of that, because of the news shows us

97
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,080
Speaker 3: American cultsu there's this bias that makes us think, thinks

98
00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:34,760
Speaker 3: to the news, that makes us think that cults are

99
00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:35,839
Speaker 3: an American thing, y'all.

100
00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,920
Speaker 6: They are not. They are fucking not at all at all,

101
00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:40,560
Speaker 6: at all at all.

102
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,600
Speaker 2: What's your cultiest thing of the week?

103
00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:47,320
Speaker 3: Loa the Flash Star Ezra Miller seeking treatment for quote

104
00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:52,920
Speaker 3: complex mental health issues. So Ezra Miller is non binary.

105
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 3: They go by veay them, so I'm going to use

106
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,000
Speaker 3: them pronounce. They released the same in saying, having released

107
00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,480
Speaker 3: recently gone through a time of intense crisis, I now

108
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,960
Speaker 3: understand that I am suffering complex mental health issues and

109
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,160
Speaker 3: have been begun ongoing treatment. I want to apologize to

110
00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,400
Speaker 3: everyone that I've alarmed and upset with my past behavior.

111
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,320
Speaker 3: I am committed to doing the necessary work to get

112
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,480
Speaker 3: back to a healthy, safe, and productive stage in my life.

113
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:20,159
Speaker 3: But the flash is apparently amazing. It's going to be

114
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,720
Speaker 3: a big deal. Everyone wants to see it. They are

115
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,880
Speaker 3: the star of like one of the biggest franchise movies,

116
00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,240
Speaker 3: I mean, a two hundred million dollar fucking movie. Like so,

117
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,359
Speaker 3: I'm the timing seems a little interesting to me that

118
00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,800
Speaker 3: this is when they're releasing the statement about their mental

119
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,040
Speaker 3: health because they are trying not to get this fucking

120
00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:44,600
Speaker 3: movie canceled. But meanwhile, there's so the stuff that they've

121
00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,080
Speaker 3: been doing is like extremely gnarly.

122
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 7: I don't know.

123
00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,159
Speaker 3: I don't know them, I don't know the situation with

124
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 3: their mental health. What I do know is that they've

125
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,160
Speaker 3: been causing a lot of harm. They have like a

126
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,720
Speaker 3: fucking ninety acre branch and like a mom and her

127
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,240
Speaker 3: three kids have been staying there. Their dad has not

128
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,839
Speaker 3: seen them. They've broken into places, They've been violent.

129
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:11,600
Speaker 6: With multiple people.

130
00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 3: There've been two different sets of parents who filed restraining

131
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,200
Speaker 3: orders because Azra Miller apparently is like got their children

132
00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 3: under their spell. Like there's a lot of really really

133
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,880
Speaker 3: bad behavior here that's really like, not to use the

134
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,360
Speaker 3: word alarming, two episodes in a row, but it's alarming.

135
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,719
Speaker 6: So you know, I don't know why, So tell me

136
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:31,159
Speaker 6: your take.

137
00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,680
Speaker 5: Well, honestly, I just saw a girl that I know

138
00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,880
Speaker 5: share it today, like I'm so happy that they're going.

139
00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 2: To get help.

140
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,360
Speaker 5: Everybody deserves a chance. And I'm like their PR person

141
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:43,599
Speaker 5: wrote this, Yeah, they.

142
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 2: Don't fucking mean it. They've been attacking people up and

143
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,760
Speaker 2: down Hawaii, around and around.

144
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:55,160
Speaker 5: I wanted, but then everybody commenting is like people are heartless,

145
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,719
Speaker 5: like they've blah blah blah, and I'm just like, I

146
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:00,520
Speaker 5: don't understand life anymore.

147
00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,599
Speaker 3: If this didn't literally completely in every way coincide with

148
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,000
Speaker 3: the attempted release of the Flash, of course, then maybe

149
00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,000
Speaker 3: I would have a little bit more, you know, less

150
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,960
Speaker 3: of a skeptical eye about it.

151
00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:14,360
Speaker 6: But y'all, come on.

152
00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,000
Speaker 3: There's a million, hundreds of millions of dollars invested in

153
00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:18,600
Speaker 3: this person.

154
00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just such a bullshit apology, Like you really think.

155
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,480
Speaker 3: That it's gonna stop, Like it's not. I mean, listen,

156
00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,440
Speaker 3: who's to say. Who's to say maybe they're extremely bipolar

157
00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,440
Speaker 3: and that they're just auto manic. But this behavior is

158
00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,080
Speaker 3: there are lots of people who have all kinds of

159
00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,440
Speaker 3: mental illnesses and do not harm people to the degree

160
00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:41,040
Speaker 3: that they are.

161
00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,400
Speaker 5: Because I know people have been trying to get them

162
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,040
Speaker 5: to apologize for a long ass time, and obviously they haven't.

163
00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,240
Speaker 5: They've just been on this s bender.

164
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 3: We need to talk about Kevin. Great fucking movie, love

165
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,040
Speaker 3: that movie there.

166
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,080
Speaker 6: They play the sociopath in it.

167
00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:02,640
Speaker 3: And if they were potentially, you know, possessing a personality

168
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,960
Speaker 3: characteristic similar to that, like telling them they need to

169
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:07,640
Speaker 3: get their shit together is not gonna be the thing

170
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 3: that changes the behavior. Yeah yeah, I mean, like listen,

171
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,600
Speaker 3: no one wants to miss out on all the money

172
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 3: and whatever, so who fucking knows. But in my experience,

173
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,800
Speaker 3: the more powerful people get, the less accountable they are

174
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,760
Speaker 3: most of the time because every you know, they're surrounded

175
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,200
Speaker 3: by people who want to utilize that success for their

176
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 3: own means. We obviously should be empathetic to people who

177
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:38,200
Speaker 3: have experienced extreme mental health blips. You know, I don't

178
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,560
Speaker 3: want to say that we shouldn't. We obviously should let

179
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:45,760
Speaker 3: people recover. But there's a fine line between having empathy

180
00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,720
Speaker 3: and just straight up making excuses for someone.

181
00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, I saw them, like Jerry Steinfeld right now, you

182
00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,880
Speaker 5: know what it is. But it's like, maybe you don't

183
00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 5: have an opinion on it yet, maybe if you want

184
00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,360
Speaker 5: to talk about it, you posted it and you say

185
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,240
Speaker 5: interesting because we don't know what's gonna happen yet, don't.

186
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:04,520
Speaker 6: We don't know that's gonna happen.

187
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:06,360
Speaker 2: You don't know if.

188
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,360
Speaker 5: They're good or if they're bad. So why are people

189
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,320
Speaker 5: in my Why am I jocking Facebook?

190
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:12,760
Speaker 2: Who knows?

191
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:12,960
Speaker 5: Am I?

192
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,560
Speaker 6: Why are you check your Facebook?

193
00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:20,679
Speaker 5: Because there's a Facebook group from Michael Okay? But you know, like,

194
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,319
Speaker 5: maybe maybe we shouldn't be so quick to have an

195
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,199
Speaker 5: opinion on things, and if we want to talk about it,

196
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,439
Speaker 5: we just say this is interesting.

197
00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,760
Speaker 3: Well, here's why I think an opinion might be relevant?

198
00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,960
Speaker 3: At this point because the first couple that happened, the

199
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,800
Speaker 3: first couple incidents, I was like, interesting, at this point,

200
00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:45,120
Speaker 3: there's a like clear established, ongoing pattern of behavior that

201
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,880
Speaker 3: is causing harm to others. So, like, my opinion is

202
00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:53,200
Speaker 3: that that should stop. And then my other opinion is

203
00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:59,160
Speaker 3: that the team written pr statement about getting help probably

204
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,440
Speaker 3: isn't the most trustworthy timing in the world.

205
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,840
Speaker 5: Could they have not added a tiny bit of heart

206
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,640
Speaker 5: and soul into that. It looks like it was typed

207
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,520
Speaker 5: from accounting, Like, oh, that's so weird.

208
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,640
Speaker 3: I mean whatever, Listen, I hope I hope they get help.

209
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,200
Speaker 3: I hope everyone gets help. You know, I've known a

210
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,080
Speaker 3: couple of people in the past couple of years who

211
00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,319
Speaker 3: have needed to be temporarily hospitalized because they were having

212
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 3: such extreme, you know, moods and delusions and stuff. That

213
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,719
Speaker 3: there was nothing wrong with having those experiences. Y'all all

214
00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,720
Speaker 3: should we all should be getting help all the time. Also,

215
00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,160
Speaker 3: maybe let's not curate a group of people who are

216
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,120
Speaker 3: following us around the country as we're committing crimes and

217
00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:44,880
Speaker 3: brainwashing them.

218
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:50,480
Speaker 5: I don't know, Yeah, who knows, well, potato potato, all right, all.

219
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:51,280
Speaker 6: Right, we did it.

220
00:10:51,440 --> 00:11:06,000
Speaker 3: Let's get into our episode now. Welcome Camille and Trillium.

221
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,160
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us.

222
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,360
Speaker 1: Hi yay, thanks for having us.

223
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:13,920
Speaker 6: I'm so glad that you reached out.

224
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,600
Speaker 7: We're both super super interested in this.

225
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,920
Speaker 3: So it's twenty fourteen, right when this all begins. Yes,

226
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:21,280
Speaker 3: you're twenty years old.

227
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:26,280
Speaker 1: Okay. So I was a fresh No, I was barely

228
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,800
Speaker 1: a sophomore in college. I had like just turned twenty.

229
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,120
Speaker 1: I was seeing this guy who had just gotten back

230
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,600
Speaker 1: into this group. He had known a lot of people

231
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,840
Speaker 1: in it, and he was talking it up a lot.

232
00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,040
Speaker 1: You know, this coven, a bunch of witches out in

233
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 1: the country, and they're cool and it's magical, it's magnetic.

234
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:51,720
Speaker 1: And I was just squirdo liberal in a southern conservative college,

235
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,600
Speaker 1: having a hard time making connections. And so I begged him, like,

236
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,480
Speaker 1: oh my god, I have to meet them. I have

237
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,480
Speaker 1: to meet these people. And we asked her and finally

238
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,719
Speaker 1: convinced her to set up a meeting with me, and

239
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,200
Speaker 1: so we go out to the house. Originally the premise is, oh,

240
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 1: she's not taking any more students. We'll have a conversation.

241
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,240
Speaker 1: Maybe she'll set you up with a different pagan community.

242
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,520
Speaker 1: So we sit down, we talk. She asks me a

243
00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:21,760
Speaker 1: lot about myself.

244
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:23,440
Speaker 7: Tell us who you're talking about?

245
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:24,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, who is this woman?

246
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,360
Speaker 1: We're calling her Kathy. She's this fifty or so year

247
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,160
Speaker 1: old woman lives out in the country, like twenty minutes

248
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,920
Speaker 1: out of the college town we were in.

249
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:35,240
Speaker 2: And this is in Alabama.

250
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,560
Speaker 1: Yes, this is in Alabama college town.

251
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,280
Speaker 5: You're feeling kind of lonely, like I don't know anybody,

252
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:43,920
Speaker 5: what am I supposed to do? You're dating a guy

253
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,880
Speaker 5: and he's like, I'm in a witch covin.

254
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,720
Speaker 1: Yeah essentially, Yeah, exactly. I was feeling really isolated. I

255
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,840
Speaker 1: had a really rough freshman year, so this sounded like

256
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:55,520
Speaker 1: exactly what I needed. You know.

257
00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,800
Speaker 3: So were you into WIKA? Like what was your spiritual

258
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:01,640
Speaker 3: life like.

259
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:02,160
Speaker 7: At that point?

260
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:02,800
Speaker 4: So?

261
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 1: I was raised Catholic, but my parents weren't super strictly

262
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 1: religious or anything. So I was like in that, but

263
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,120
Speaker 1: I wasn't like it in it. And then I got

264
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,439
Speaker 1: into astrology, like really big with my friend. I did

265
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,240
Speaker 1: a million birth charts. That's really as far as I

266
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,040
Speaker 1: had taken it. But I knew I kind of liked

267
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,080
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, and I like really wanted to

268
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,720
Speaker 1: believe in magic. So as soon as I heard about this,

269
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,560
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, this is for me.

270
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,880
Speaker 3: What I love about this story is I feel like

271
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:32,880
Speaker 3: most of the women that.

272
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,440
Speaker 6: I know can relate to the idea of.

273
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,839
Speaker 3: Like wanting to join a coven. Like we joke about

274
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,120
Speaker 3: it a lot. We love the craft, We love practical magic,

275
00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,800
Speaker 3: you know, we love these like witch movies. And then

276
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,800
Speaker 3: when need to find out like, oh, there are actual

277
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,679
Speaker 3: like practicing wickens and they really do have a coven

278
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,240
Speaker 3: and you can go have you know, this like earthy,

279
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,360
Speaker 3: feminist sort of spiritual life, Like that feels very exciting.

280
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. It was very focused, which I had used hiking

281
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,760
Speaker 1: as kind of like a mental health thing in college,

282
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,960
Speaker 1: and so like the focus on earth and plants was

283
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,640
Speaker 1: really a draw for me as well. I wanted to get,

284
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,280
Speaker 1: you know, more connected with all of that. And you know,

285
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,920
Speaker 1: when I first met with her, I wanted to mention

286
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,800
Speaker 1: that she said that she predicted that I was coming,

287
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 1: which was a weird, big love bombing moment.

288
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,240
Speaker 2: Do you think that the guy that took you to

289
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 2: her targeted you?

290
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 1: I mean I don't think. So he got out, you know,

291
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 1: while we were dating, he got he was like getting out.

292
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:37,960
Speaker 1: I mean, we talk now.

293
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 4: I was going to say, I think that that is

294
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 4: a tactic she used a lot, was to pull other

295
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,880
Speaker 4: people's friends in. I know she pulled a lot of

296
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,560
Speaker 4: my friend group in and that was one of her

297
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,080
Speaker 4: two main sources of new people for her. Cobin, I

298
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,880
Speaker 4: think he was as much of a victim, and correct

299
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:54,320
Speaker 4: me if I'm wrong, Camil, but I would say he

300
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 4: was as much as a victim as either of us.

301
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,800
Speaker 3: Well, and that's standard too, is people who are victims

302
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,880
Speaker 3: and holts often end up recruiting other members and that's

303
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,560
Speaker 3: just sort of how it goes. Victims bring in other

304
00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 3: victims not realizing that they're all going to be victims.

305
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,880
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, you think you're sharing something awesome.

306
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, totally so, Trillium.

307
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,280
Speaker 3: Before we get back to Camille's story, can you tell

308
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,960
Speaker 3: us what your origins are with the group, and do

309
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,240
Speaker 3: you guys have a name for the group, like even

310
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:21,160
Speaker 3: just like a fake one.

311
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,280
Speaker 1: Let's call it the Celtic Coven.

312
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 6: The Celtic cent Okay.

313
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:30,360
Speaker 1: We'll go with that.

314
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 4: So I actually was there, I guess two or three

315
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,840
Speaker 4: years before Camille. I started in about twenty eleven. She

316
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,920
Speaker 4: was actually my professor at the university that we went to.

317
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,600
Speaker 4: No way, I was already involved with the pagan community.

318
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:49,120
Speaker 4: I was a pagan but didn't have that sense of community.

319
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 4: And you know, I grew up in small churches and

320
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,240
Speaker 4: so that sense of community and that I hate to

321
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,000
Speaker 4: say that I was looking for group think, but I

322
00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 4: was looking for a group.

323
00:15:59,240 --> 00:15:59,640
Speaker 6: Yeah.

324
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,440
Speaker 4: She provided that. And she provided I guess the best

325
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,640
Speaker 4: word for it would be a sense of legitimacy. It

326
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,800
Speaker 4: made it feel much more like this is a real

327
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 4: thing and not just something that I'm picking and choosing

328
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 4: bits and pieces of different things that work for me.

329
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 7: Yeah.

330
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,160
Speaker 4: And and of course, you know, yeah I was a

331
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 4: broken or sorry I almost said a cuss word. I

332
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 4: don't please, I was up twenty something.

333
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

334
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know that it is catnip to these people.

335
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 5: And and she's your professor, Like that is such a power.

336
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,480
Speaker 3: You don't have to say like a specific class or anything,

337
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:38,800
Speaker 3: but like what kind of professor?

338
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:40,840
Speaker 4: She was a liberal arts professor.

339
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 7: Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

340
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry, what are we calling her again? I just

341
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 3: want to write it down so I don't forget.

342
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,400
Speaker 4: Kathy, Cathy or you know, the Southern fried narcissist whichever.

343
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,400
Speaker 3: So Kathy is a professor and she recruits her student

344
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,120
Speaker 3: to join. What did she tell you that it is

345
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 3: when you guys first start talking about it.

346
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,639
Speaker 4: Oh, much like Camille. It you know, starts out with, oh,

347
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,680
Speaker 4: I'm not accepting anyone new, We're very close, we're very private.

348
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,959
Speaker 4: You know. She has to get that that making you

349
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 4: really wanted and make you fight for it thing. And

350
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 4: it was a much younger covin when I started. She

351
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 4: was just getting started. I think she had three other

352
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,680
Speaker 4: members and one of them was related to her.

353
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:30,359
Speaker 1: When I was joining, she made me ask her if

354
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,359
Speaker 1: she would be my teacher. I had to ask her.

355
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 1: So she told you I was going to ask me. Okay,

356
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,399
Speaker 1: She's like, are you going to ask me? And like

357
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,760
Speaker 1: looks at me, like yes, And I didn't even know

358
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:42,720
Speaker 1: ask you.

359
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,080
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's the same.

360
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:46,359
Speaker 7: That was weird.

361
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:47,320
Speaker 4: That was a thing.

362
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,439
Speaker 6: So how did you figure out what she was asking

363
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:50,399
Speaker 6: you to ask her?

364
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 1: The guy that I came with kind of gave me

365
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,840
Speaker 1: much told me I love it. She wouldn't say it,

366
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:56,600
Speaker 1: which is weird.

367
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,639
Speaker 3: Well, it's almost like she is making you feel like

368
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,920
Speaker 3: it's your your idea and you're consenting like she had,

369
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 3: you know, to like keep her side of the street

370
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,680
Speaker 3: clear or something interesting.

371
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,840
Speaker 2: It's like my friend who made her boyfriend propose to her.

372
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:15,120
Speaker 7: Well, who's not doing that?

373
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,480
Speaker 2: You're gonna ask me to marry you? Okay? Cool? I

374
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 2: think I'm caught up on her. So she sounds like

375
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:24,400
Speaker 2: she has.

376
00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,840
Speaker 5: No very real boundaries, because crossing that line with the

377
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:30,040
Speaker 5: student is pretty wild.

378
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 3: It is really wild, And I just want to mention

379
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,680
Speaker 3: like I've I wouldn't consider myself a wickanner o pion

380
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,359
Speaker 3: at all, but I've definitely had phases where I was

381
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,320
Speaker 3: dabbling in that. And to your point, Trillium, it is

382
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,639
Speaker 3: like a very it can be a very like individual

383
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,680
Speaker 3: sort of solo lonely experience because there aren't like it's

384
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 3: not like Christianity where you can just like find your

385
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 3: local church. It's a much more difficult to find a

386
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 3: community in that way. So I can imagine that this

387
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,600
Speaker 3: would feel really like exciting and like a relief that

388
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,879
Speaker 3: you get to find some community in this spiritual system

389
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 3: that you're practicing.

390
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,800
Speaker 4: Right, it was shiny and offered a sense of comfort

391
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,399
Speaker 4: and family. We use the word family a lot, which

392
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 4: I know is a hallmark of cults now now that

393
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 4: I've got some more studying on.

394
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,200
Speaker 7: Them, right, you know, right, But that was.

395
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,640
Speaker 4: It was presented as a very pleasant and appealing thing.

396
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 3: Of course, I mean, that's that's what they got to do.

397
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 3: So by the time that you join Camille, how big

398
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 3: is it?

399
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 1: I think it was like ten members. They stayed pretty small.

400
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 1: I think the largest the group was ever at was

401
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:47,159
Speaker 1: like maybe thirteen. She's pretty quick to kick people out

402
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,840
Speaker 1: if they don't bend to her will. There is like

403
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 1: a very strategic tactic with their, like their the structure

404
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,280
Speaker 1: of the group when you first join for six months

405
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,400
Speaker 1: where you're just going to group meetings, so you're auditing,

406
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,440
Speaker 1: which I think another cult used that term, and you're

407
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: like in it for six months. Yeah, you're not going

408
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,360
Speaker 1: to private lessons. You're just doing the group lessons and

409
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,920
Speaker 1: the fun stuff, the rituals, the holidays. So okay, it's

410
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,880
Speaker 1: kind of like a way for her to test out,

411
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,120
Speaker 1: you know, is this going to work? Is this person gonna,

412
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 1: you know, be able to work for me in a way.

413
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 3: Does she like have a house that people live with

414
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 3: her at or is it just kind of like everybody

415
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 3: visits for the weekly rituals, Like what's the setup.

416
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 1: She's got her house that she lives at. It's small,

417
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 1: modest house, like a half acre of land with the

418
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,639
Speaker 1: big farm. So everybody helps on the farm. We have

419
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,439
Speaker 1: work days and we help on the farm, but we

420
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: all live on our own, so everybody comes into her place.

421
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: She rarely would leave the house or the property. But

422
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 1: you know, one time she like called, like, I was

423
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: hanging out with one of her sons and she like

424
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 1: called them to get her cigarettes. That's how little she

425
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: left the house of Wow, nobody really lived there. I

426
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: mean occasionally people like when they were on hard times,

427
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 1: would stay there. But with a lot of expectations to

428
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,439
Speaker 1: help out and do everything around the house.

429
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 2: Would she keep you guys pretty busy? Was there?

430
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 5: Like lots of rituals, lots of work days, lots of

431
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 5: lots of time spent.

432
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 1: It was every other week, there was a weekly group meeting.

433
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: There's like eight holidays a year. There wasn't like a

434
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,719
Speaker 1: particular schedule per se for private lessons when she started

435
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 1: on that. But if you didn't do like once or

436
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: twice a month, she'd get mad. And then there was

437
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: a lot of homework, like you know, things to bring

438
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 1: in and then you know everything secret, so you can't

439
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,120
Speaker 1: talk with anybody who's not in the group about any

440
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: of it. And you're excited about it, you want to

441
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,120
Speaker 1: talk about it, but you're scared if you say something right,

442
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna get in trouble.

443
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,439
Speaker 5: Right, So Camille, take us back to this guy bringing

444
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 5: you there?

445
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 2: What did she tell you when you came?

446
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 5: So he and her disappeared and you kind of hear

447
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 5: them arguing back and forth and then they come back out,

448
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 5: and what did she say?

449
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: Well, so it had come up that I was a

450
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: libra because I had a recent birthsday, This was October,

451
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,919
Speaker 1: and then like she asked me if I was bisexual,

452
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: and I was like yeah, And they had recently lost

453
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: a bisexual Libra supposedly very dramatically, and they're like, oh,

454
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: well you I predicted a bisexual Libra was coming to

455
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: replace her, so it's you. And so they went and

456
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 1: argued because technically group members aren't supposed to date, and like,

457
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: you know, the guy and I were, you know, kind

458
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:55,400
Speaker 1: of seeing each other. It was like a flingy thing college,

459
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 1: but she wanted to make sure that it would work

460
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: with him, with our.

461
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 7: Thing age old tactic.

462
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 6: I had a prophecy that you would arrive.

463
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 7: We've been waiting for you.

464
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. And then she called all the troops in.

465
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: Everybody came in. It was very love bomby. Everybody came

466
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 1: in and asked me questions about myself. We sat out

467
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 1: on the porch drinking wine all night, improped to lesson

468
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 1: celebrate me, like I just met this woman, Like yeah

469
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: that day, I mean it was it felt so special.

470
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: I felt it felt very special and magical. Yeah, and

471
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: I was like this, I was sold that night. It

472
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: was quick.

473
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 7: Were you there Tillian for this?

474
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 4: I was? I think at that point I was actually

475
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 4: kind of her right hand person, and I remembering that correctly, yeah,

476
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 4: because that was after it.

477
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 1: It was like you and Jill, you were kind of

478
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: like neck and neck at that point. She always had

479
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: you here.

480
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was trying to remember the timeline, but yeah,

481
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 4: I was. She had kind of two sub minions, if

482
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 4: you will, and I was one of them. So I

483
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 4: definitely was part of that and had a lot of

484
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 4: voice in whether or not people were allowed to join.

485
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 5: Had you guys really lost a Libra bisexual member or

486
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 5: was that you really had?

487
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 4: We really had that was not right, lost probably about

488
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 4: a year or two before, but it was a very

489
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 4: dramatic thing, and it was I.

490
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: Believe it was about a year to the day, which

491
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: she made a big deal about.

492
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 4: Uh huh, yeah, it's probably right. I don't remember precisely

493
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 4: because yeah.

494
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, very well.

495
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 3: I want to hear a little bit from both of you,

496
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 3: just like about what Kathy was, like, Like is she pretty?

497
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: Is she strong?

498
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 7: She have like a wisdom? Like what is she exuding?

499
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 7: Tell us about her?

500
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: I'll go first. She's kind of short, pale, She wears

501
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: dark makeup, a lot of eye make up, you know,

502
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: has a like a stare that really gets in your

503
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: short hair with like streaks, kind of kind of a

504
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: witchy style, but not really what you would expect, not

505
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: the long flowing hair. She claimed to be half Cherokee

506
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: or a quarter Cherokee, which we've never really got proof.

507
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 3: For sounds like a lot of there was a lot

508
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 3: of appropriation if that was not true.

509
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: Again, I don't know, So I don't want to say

510
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: that for a fact, because I mean, I'm not trying

511
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: to disrespect anybody's culture. But she was very pale. She

512
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: was a writer, so she had a way of speaking

513
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: in a really magnetic way, scarves and cleavage, and I

514
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: don't know it was. It's weird thinking about that.

515
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 3: It sounds like kind of an alt like, kind of

516
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: an alt girl look almost like.

517
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, she always would tell people that, you know, she

518
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,400
Speaker 4: was in eighties rock which she didn't say rock star.

519
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 4: What does she say? Biker chick, biker chick. There you go. Yeah,

520
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 4: that was a story that was kind of the persona

521
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 4: she biker chick turned academic.

522
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,360
Speaker 7: Interesting. I mean that sounds very.

523
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: Hell's angel is what she would claim. But yeah, she

524
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: claimed that. I don't know if it was true, but

525
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: she said she was in the Hell's Angels for a while.

526
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 2: Sorry. Wow, this woman does sound intriguing. I know, what

527
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 2: does magnetic mean to you? When you say that word?

528
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you just like you wanted to know more

529
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: from her. She had this way. She seemed like she

530
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 1: felt like she had this deep knowledge that no one

531
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: else had about this witchcraft, Like she felt magical. She

532
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: really did feel. I mean, I don't know if it

533
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: was the way that she cultivated the people around her

534
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: and the way they looked at her kind of gave

535
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: that aura. Yeah, I mean, she she claimed she was

536
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: a werewolf. Do did I mention that?

537
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 7: Oh no, oh.

538
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 2: Wow, that's exciting.

539
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: Did I imagine that? Because sometimes I forget that trillium?

540
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: Was that a thing she did?

541
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: So I'm believing the Hell's Angel thing a little bit less.

542
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 7: Now, Yeah, there are.

543
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 4: A lot of things that may or may not have

544
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 4: been true.

545
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: You've never the Cherokee Hell's Angel.

546
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: Come on, I mean, and she wouldn't throw that one

547
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: in till you were in really deep before. She was

548
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: kind of testing those boundaries of like what you would

549
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: believe and wouldn't believe, because you know, at the beginning,

550
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: it's a lot of just like pagan holidays, like the

551
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 1: historic stuff that you can find online, like the stuff

552
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: like that, the actual stuff that ancient Celtic and Cherokee

553
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: tribes would have done. Like so, but then right exactly,

554
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: like those rituals like communicating with your loved ones who

555
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: have passed and all of that stuff, Like it starts

556
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: with that stuff that's really grounded and connect in reality,

557
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 1: and then as you get deeper and she throws in

558
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: astral projection and you know, pendulum work and like stuff

559
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: that you know may or may not have some reality

560
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: in it. But like when you go as far as

561
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: where wolf something's.

562
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 7: Happened, you know, yeah, yeah, Trillium.

563
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 4: Do you have I think that I would say that

564
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 4: she was very good at exuding the feeling of being genuine.

565
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 4: I think that she believed her own lies so much

566
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,719
Speaker 4: that it was very hard to realize that she wasn't

567
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 4: everything she said she was. And it definitely took me

568
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 4: years at least to realize how much of that was

569
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 4: a personality created just for me, indicater specifically to the

570
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 4: things that I saw and needed and would connect with.

571
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 5: Okay, so she's magical, she's exciting, she's smart, and she's

572
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 5: got you guys and a coven.

573
00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: Great.

574
00:28:58,600 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 5: I like it.

575
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 6: I hear that love a file again, Trillium.

576
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 3: So you were a couple of years earlier in it.

577
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 3: How did you witness it kind of changing over time?

578
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 4: It definitely went from being kind of a small you know,

579
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 4: friends get together and yes, she taught. From the beginning,

580
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 4: it was always close knit, but it was less. There

581
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 4: were less internal politics early on than there were later

582
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 4: and as it grew and as I think Camille mentioned that,

583
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 4: you know, she said she was not accepting students. That

584
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 4: was always the line, but there was always an exception

585
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 4: for adding this person who's just shown up right, And

586
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 4: the more people she had to manipulate and move around

587
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:48,239
Speaker 4: and politic with, the more triangulation there was, and the

588
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 4: more resentment fostered between each other because we were supposed

589
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 4: to be family, and she would go on and on

590
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 4: about how, you know, we needed to create relationships with

591
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 4: each other, not just with her, but anytime anyone did

592
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 4: all hell broke loose.

593
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, hang in of dissonance there, that's confusing.

594
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's ostensibly a community, but it's really just her community, right,

595
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 3: And time I.

596
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: Got in, they had this, uh, this like practice where

597
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,239
Speaker 1: like we would go to council, which was basically like

598
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: that thing they do in Synanon where they put you

599
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,479
Speaker 1: in the middle of the circle and everybody tells you

600
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: what you did wrong until you cry, and that that

601
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: would be for as little of things as you haven't

602
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: been helping up out enough in this past month, like

603
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: you're not you you're not enthusiastic enough about helping and

604
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: so we're gonna make you cry, and like they snuck

605
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: it on you.

606
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 7: Was that actually you made this soap?

607
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: What'd you say?

608
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: Death soap? I think it was somebody like pursed some

609
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 1: soap and like was trying to kill someone at one I.

610
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 4: Did not curse the soap. I did exactly what she

611
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 4: said to do to the soap, everything.

612
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 5: That they loved.

613
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 4: It was life for an entire booth. What's my fault?

614
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 5: This is until I one night and suddenly I.

615
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 4: Was in the hot seat.

616
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: Oh my, were you guys both in the hot seat?

617
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 4: Theory?

618
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: Oh what was I've been?

619
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: Well, okay, everybody got the hot seat. You know, if

620
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: you got too comfortable, she'd find a reason to put

621
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: you there. So that's you know, we all got it.

622
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: But that time, trillion, was that before you were about

623
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: to finish.

624
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,719
Speaker 4: It was actually after I had finished. And then remember

625
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 4: she recan did because you know, I was the first

626
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 4: one to finish the program, and no one ever finished

627
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 4: and got to stay.

628
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: So my theory, yeah, I think she made up the

629
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: death soap trillium because you finished and nobody could be

630
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: as powerful as her. The only other person who got

631
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: us close was Jill, and she never finished because she

632
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: tried to poison.

633
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 6: Kathy in quotation marks the quotation.

634
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: Oh wow, okay, so it was a whole thing.

635
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: She called everybody like crying. The police were involved, Like,

636
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: nobody saw Jill try to poison Kathy, so that probably

637
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: didn't happen. She tried to give her tea Wow.

638
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 3: So I feel like there were too many things I

639
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 3: was asked at the same time, and my brain shorts

640
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 3: her kind.

641
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 5: Of this is intriguing, Okay, so everybody got the hot seat.

642
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 5: Sounds very traumatizing, and she would just kick people out

643
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 5: all the time, correct, like if you're not falling in line, goodbye.

644
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 4: No, no, no no. It was more complicated than that,

645
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 4: ok because this would start days before with her calling

646
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 4: every other coven member to complain about you and make

647
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 4: sure that they were fully on her side, to find

648
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 4: all the things that she could convince them that they

649
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 4: felt wrong badly about you.

650
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 7: Oh, they could.

651
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 4: All participate in this.

652
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 6: Wow.

653
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: It was never.

654
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 4: She never acted alone without having other people that she'd

655
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 4: already gotten to align with her desires.

656
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 3: There, because God forbid it should cause other people in

657
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: the group to question, So she'd have to make sure

658
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 3: no one else would question first.

659
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 4: Precisely, so she'd.

660
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: Have to get everybody really hyped up against the people first.

661
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: And she'd also like there was a supposed departure ritual

662
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: that existed that I never saw that you're supposed to

663
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: be able to leave the group peacefully if you do

664
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: this ritual, it's the only way to leave peacefully. But

665
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: almost every time that you're trying to get out, it's

666
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: because you're in trouble for some stupid thing and they're

667
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: berating you from all different directions, and at that point

668
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: it's like you have to run because it's scary and

669
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: you're not happy anymore. And I mean like they try

670
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: to be like, oh, we're not kicking you out, We're

671
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: just gonna make you start over and you'll still be

672
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: in the group, but you just have to start over,

673
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: or we're going to strip you of everything you've done,

674
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: you know, all the work you've done. So it was

675
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: more often I saw that berating that led to people

676
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: leaving as opposed to getting kicked out.

677
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 3: So can you guys explain what the what this program

678
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 3: is because you're saying you would need people would need

679
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 3: to start over or like you know, trilling, you completed

680
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 3: the program, what is the program and what's the goal

681
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 3: of it?

682
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: So it was like, so you had that six month

683
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: auditorship where you didn't really do anything on your own.

684
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: You just did the group stuff and then after that

685
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: there were four degrees that you would do. Right, it

686
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: was three, Yeah, we're three, while.

687
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 2: It was wait, did you guys have to pay for them?

688
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 7: Did you have to pay?

689
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: But there was each level, there was a gifting process.

690
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: There was a lot of time commitment. There was a

691
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: lot of you know, buying supplies here and there, helping

692
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: in the garden, but surprisingly not really much for the

693
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 1: financial commitment. But yeah, three levels of learning. Each level

694
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,240
Speaker 1: you had more secrets to keep, you were more special,

695
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: and then you were supposed to be able to graduate

696
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: and be a high priestess with her and teach people

697
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 1: at that point, but nobody ever did as we said

698
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: it is well.

699
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 4: And you also became more responsible for helping micromanage the

700
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 4: people in a lower degrees. So that was kind of

701
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 4: that scaffolding approach of having, like I said, she had

702
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 4: a kind of head minions. So you've got these people

703
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 4: who are, oh, you're a second degree, so you need

704
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 4: to go tell those first degrees what they need to

705
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 4: do and keep them in line, make sure they don't

706
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 4: be misbehave or you'll be in trouble.

707
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 3: Oh right, Yeah, I was going to ask with her

708
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 3: actual course books like text, like what does the coursework

709
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 3: look like?

710
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 1: So you write all of your own notes. You get

711
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 1: you have your group lessons, which everybody has, and then

712
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: you have there are different lessons that she recites, and

713
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 1: then you write every word as she's saying it down

714
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: in your own notebook. Of those, she had like a

715
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: lesson book of her own that was handwritten that she

716
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: would read out to you for each degree. So you'd

717
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: like have assignments. You'd have to memorize things and be

718
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: tested on it. To pass your degree. You would do

719
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: a big spell at the end and you'd have to

720
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: like check certain boxes to pass that spell, and then

721
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: you have a big party for you where you graduate

722
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: to the next step. Also, I did want to point

723
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: out we all changed our names when we signed the initiation.

724
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: Oh shit, what did that look like? What were? What?

725
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 3: How?

726
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: What? What names are? Are the kind of names?

727
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: So she would usually kind of push you to lean

728
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: Celtic or cherokee Ish because that was kind of her

729
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: angle and it was a first and last name, so

730
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: it would just come to you, you know, your name

731
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: would come to you. You pick it that night, Like

732
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: in your initiation, you're staring her in the eyes and

733
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: you have to say your new name.

734
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: That is so much pressure.

735
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 7: I know. Yeah, it took me.

736
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: Like three from a children's book you did.

737
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have just picked from the things I

738
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: was looking at it too.

739
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 4: I never told her that.

740
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: I would be like, I would be like marinating on

741
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: it and thinking about it. And she's like, it's not

742
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: that it's not going to be that it's going to

743
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: just come to you. It's not that I'd had so

744
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: many different names picked out and then in the moment,

745
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: I just picked one from a kid's book. I loved.

746
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 3: Wow, were you supposed to refer to yourself? Is that

747
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 3: even outside the group or just within the group?

748
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: Just within the group? Like within in those lessons, and.

749
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, I, my Lola is not my

750
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 3: real name. My real name is Candace Melanocus.

751
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 7: Because I because I do music.

752
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 3: It took me like months to come up with the name.

753
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 3: I could not It was so hard to pick a

754
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 3: name for myself. I cannot imagine doing it in one evening.

755
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 2: And trying to pretend it's just coming to you from.

756
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 7: Ah, I'm as far.

757
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 2: That's so that would stress me out so much. Yeah,

758
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: I think I had.

759
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 4: The advantage of we weren't doing the oh you must

760
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 4: come up with it now thing when I join, so

761
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 4: I at least had some time to think about it

762
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 4: and come up with something. But yeah, it was supposed

763
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 4: to be an on the spot come up with it

764
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 4: now thing.

765
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 3: What a way to strip your identity from you so

766
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 3: that you don't think for yourself within the group.

767
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 7: Classic move.

768
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 5: Boop.

769
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 6: I mean I.

770
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: Went as far as I was, like painting and signing

771
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: that name on paintings. I still have naintings with that

772
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: name sang on it. Wow, I need to change that.

773
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 4: I still have paintings with that name signed on them.

774
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 5: At least you guys got this beautiful friendship out of it.

775
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 2: You're so you know, you guys are great. Anyway, Yeah

776
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 2: we did.

777
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 4: It took a while, there was definitely some rocky territory there,

778
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 4: but I'm glad we came back around.

779
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 7: I can't imagine.

780
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't believe she built an entire She's like

781
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 3: an actual professor, but then in her spare time, decides

782
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 3: to continue to be a professor.

783
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 7: Course.

784
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 5: She built her own course, that's I mean, and she's

785
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 5: not getting money for it.

786
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 7: She's getting free labor and power though, right.

787
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, and attention and accolades, yeah right.

788
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: She wants, you know, people telling her how amazing she

789
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: is all the time, or she will not survive.

790
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: Is she still running? Is she still running this coven?

791
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 4: As far as I know, Yes, But I have distanced

792
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 4: myself as much as possible from that, so I'm not

793
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 4: one hundred percent positive, gotcha.

794
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 3: I mean, someone like that, I imagine, doesn't just abandon

795
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 3: that project, even if she kind of restructures it or

796
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 3: finds a new way of doing it.

797
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 7: Those people typically, I.

798
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 4: Know she has a podcast and a Patreon, but I'm sorry.

799
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 2: She has a podcasts a podcast?

800
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: I know this?

801
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 5: Oh my god?

802
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 6: What about what?

803
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: Okay?

804
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: Fuck, don't tell me the name of the podcast. I'll

805
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 2: probably enjoy it, do you?

806
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 6: I mean, can you tell us the general topic area?

807
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 7: Trillium?

808
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 4: It's which the same thing. It's a Celtic Cherokee witchcraft

809
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 4: that she talks about. I have not listened to it

810
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,720
Speaker 4: in what is this twenty two three years?

811
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 3: Okay, So she's trying to pull a tell Swan. She's

812
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 3: she's like trying to do go full on Internet guru lady.

813
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 7: Now that's fascinating all right.

814
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: I imagine that COVID probably have affected her ability to

815
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: recruit new members. I do know that there was a

816
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: girl that I brought into the group pretty soon before

817
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: I left who married her son, and so that's interesting.

818
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: She's probably still familiar.

819
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: You were set up with her sons, both of them correct,

820
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 2: mm hmmm, Cane.

821
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: So that kind of that kind of kind of leads

822
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: to the end. So she had an older son and

823
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: younger son. She always talked super positive about the older son.

824
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: He's amazing. We're gonna just call him Z and the

825
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: youngers Jay. But she would always talk about Z and

826
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: try to set him up with all the like cute

827
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: new young recruits or whatever. But her younger son is

828
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: the one who actually ended up, you know, flirting with me,

829
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 1: and like we dated briefly at the beginning, and she

830
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: said members can't date, but we dated, you know, he

831
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: was her son, so but we didn't date that long

832
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: and we ended up being really good friends. But then

833
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: her older son and I got involved, and it was

834
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: not cute. He I was his rebound basically, and whenever

835
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 1: we hooked up, he would come over like basically black

836
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: out drunk, and it got aggressive and I you know,

837
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 1: she would always just tell me, oh my god, he

838
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: chose you. It's so like this is so soon for

839
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 1: him to like he's heart and broken and he chose

840
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: you because he's attracted to you. Like she made me

841
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: feel like so special to be involved with him. But I,

842
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, it got it got too aggressive, and I

843
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 1: told her about it, which she believed in the moment,

844
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: And then after that I never saw her again because

845
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 1: she decided.

846
00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 4: I was lying.

847
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: He's never done anything wrong. He says it didn't happen.

848
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: He probably didn't remember it right. He never kissed me

849
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 1: on the lips, like it was just sex. I felt

850
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: like it felt disgusting. But I told her about it,

851
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,760
Speaker 1: and she flipped out and just had a panic attack,

852
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: and and it was pretty bad from there. Trillium was

853
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: involved in that, but she's apologized a lot. But you

854
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 1: know Kathy her minions, Yeah, she sends out her minions.

855
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: So she sent them to my house, Trillium and another

856
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: member to talk about, you know, how I've been lying

857
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: and they can't trust me anymore and I have to

858
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: start over. And I can't even tell my mom. And

859
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm really close with my mom, but she's like you

860
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 1: can't tell your mom about this, you know, right, And

861
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 1: so as soon as they leave, I call my mom.

862
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 5: Good and.

863
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: I loved everybody.

864
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 4: And I think Camille's coming new a little bit of

865
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 4: a break here, but I'll go, I'll tell the whole

866
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 4: part of this, because she didn't just send me to

867
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 4: go talk to her and you know, give her a

868
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 4: tongue lashing. She sent us with a recording device trying

869
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 4: to get us to make sure Camille said that didn't

870
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 4: really do any of those things.

871
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 5: So she wanted and I'm assuming Camille did not say

872
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 5: anything of the of the sort.

873
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: No, I mean, it wasn't a lie. I mean it's like,

874
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: I mean, as far as sexual talk goes, this seems

875
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: feels pretty minor. But like the reason I told her

876
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: in the first place is because I felt like I

877
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: was hiding it. And she was so extreme about like,

878
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: don't lie, don't hide things like you get in so

879
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,720
Speaker 1: much trouble for that. She took lying and hiding things

880
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: very seriously. And at that point I had had many

881
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: phone calls with her, with her yelling at me about

882
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: small things like saying something and shouldn't have said to

883
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: somebody you or you know, hiding things? Are you hiding

884
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: things for me?

885
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 8: Like?

886
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 1: I got this stress?

887
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 3: So you think you're doing the life thing by telling

888
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 3: her the truth, the right thing exactly.

889
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 1: I thought I would get in trouble if I didn't

890
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 1: tell her. I was older, and you know then I'm lying.

891
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 4: Well, and let's be fair, you would have gotten in

892
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 4: trouble if you didn't tell her. There was no winning

893
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 4: in that situation.

894
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the berating and the constant fear of

895
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: getting in trouble got so far as I had to

896
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: change my ring tone. I I like turned my phone

897
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: on do not disturb for like six months after because

898
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 1: I was just afraid to hear my phone ring.

899
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 6: It's fine now though, Yeah, Well, how long were you

900
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 6: in the group?

901
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 7: Total?

902
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: Four years? Pretty much on the dot for me, and

903
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 1: I've been out four years.

904
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 7: Now, which is cool, it's amazing.

905
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 4: And I was there for eight so eight years.

906
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 2: Wow. Was it something that happened with Camille that made

907
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 2: you see the light?

908
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 4: It actually wasn't. I actually didn't see the light until

909
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 4: it bit me in the ass. She called DHR and

910
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 4: told them a bunch of lies.

911
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 7: Wait, what is dhr CPS?

912
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, human Resources?

913
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 4: I think they deal with you know, child protection services

914
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 4: and all that, and I should clarify that I never

915
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 4: because those calls are anonymous, I will never prove that

916
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 4: it was her.

917
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 7: However, who else would it be.

918
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: I can prove that it was her because she traded

919
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,240
Speaker 1: to get me to call them on Trillium, So really

920
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: it was her.

921
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 5: Just say oh wow, yeah.

922
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 4: But she told them that I locked my child in

923
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 4: his room for days on end while I got shit faced,

924
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 4: and that of course led to an investigation because they

925
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,879
Speaker 4: didn't know me from Adam and had to make sure

926
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 4: he was safe, which of course I understood, but it

927
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 4: was still a really hilacious time. And when that all

928
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 4: happened and I had to sign him over to they

929
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,240
Speaker 4: told me to either pick a guardian or they would

930
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 4: put him in foster care.

931
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

932
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 4: So I called some other friends, and they were friends

933
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 4: who I had lived with before they had kids about

934
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 4: his age. I trusted them implicitly, and when I did

935
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 4: that shortly thereafter, I think her plan was that she

936
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 4: thought I would call her and she would end up

937
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 4: with custody of him. She did not think. Two and

938
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 4: a half days after all of this went down, she

939
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 4: locked me out of the blue on Facebook made a

940
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 4: blog post about how her dogs deserved better than for

941
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,959
Speaker 4: her to waste her time with workless souls. And I've

942
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 4: not actually spoken to her since I've run into her

943
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 4: in public once or twice.

944
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: Why do you think she wanted your son?

945
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 4: Got one text about returning some things that I had

946
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 4: of hers and she had of mine.

947
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 6: Oh wow, yeah, Why why do you think she wanted?

948
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 3: First of all, this is so everything you guys are

949
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 3: describing as like evil, This is horrible, crazy.

950
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's insane.

951
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: She was obsessed with babies and kids. I don't know

952
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 1: if that's why she went after Trillia's son, but she

953
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,040
Speaker 1: like was really weird about babies and kids. She was

954
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: always like I had a pregnancy scare with her her

955
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 1: son ze right, and she was trying to convince me

956
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: to keep it if I was pregnant, which I wasn't,

957
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 1: thank fuck.

958
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

959
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: But she was like I think obsessed with having like

960
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: a grand kid.

961
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 4: Well, she wanted she was, I know she wanted more

962
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 4: kids than she had. I think she liked kids as

963
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 4: much as she could control them, and that they were

964
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 4: props for her persona. And when all that happened, I

965
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 4: had just moved about an hour and a half away,

966
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 4: and I think she felt herself losing control, even though

967
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 4: honestly she wasn't at that point with me. But she

968
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 4: got there real quick when she did that, and I

969
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 4: think she tried to solidify her hold. She figured she

970
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 4: was losing me, but I think she thought she'd take him.

971
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 3: If Yeah, if she can't have you, she'll take the

972
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:19,240
Speaker 3: thing that's the most.

973
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 7: Important to you pretty much.

974
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 6: How did that turn out to you? Did you get

975
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 6: your kid back?

976
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 5: Oh?

977
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 4: Yes, Like I said, they obviously had to investigate. It

978
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 4: took them, I think two weeks to completely clear that.

979
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 4: They you know, the house we were living in, I

980
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 4: was already looking at moving out of because it was

981
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 4: a disaster. So we stayed with our other friends for

982
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 4: about six months while we found alternative housing. And you

983
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,879
Speaker 4: know that it turned into nothing. Well it was enough,

984
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:53,919
Speaker 4: but it was a nothing that turned my life upside down.

985
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 7: So that's horrible.

986
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,319
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm glad it worked out, but at least

987
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 6: it got you out.

988
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. I sometimes say that that was the biggest

989
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 4: favor she ever did me.

990
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 2: Mmm, do you think you'd still be in it if

991
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 2: she hadn't probably.

992
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 4: I have some major issues with being able to walk

993
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 4: away from things, so yeah, I probably would still be.

994
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 4: It was going to take something major to push me

995
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 4: out like that.

996
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty much rock bottom of things that you

997
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 3: can do to a mother.

998
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 7: I mean, yeah, you.

999
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 5: Guys have something interesting that we hear a lot about.

1000
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,359
Speaker 5: But you're a dynamic with both of you. It's so clear,

1001
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 5: Like you said, you brought a friend to the group

1002
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 5: and she ended up marrying one of her sons.

1003
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: Is that correct?

1004
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 1: She married the younger son, which I think he's a

1005
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: victim too, honestly. I mean he's he got a lot

1006
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: of abuse from his mom, Kathy. So I mean, I

1007
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: I was really good friend. I was really good friends

1008
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: with both of them, and the way that it all

1009
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: happened was weird. But I really I do hope they're happy.

1010
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: But they have a kid together now, and I know

1011
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 1: that she's still involved. I only know that because I've

1012
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: had my weak moments where I looked at their Facebook briefly.

1013
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I feel guilty sometimes about it,

1014
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I really don't know enough about

1015
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: where they're at right right.

1016
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's that's out of your hands exactly exactly.

1017
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 5: It is like people, but people struggle with that that

1018
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 5: we hear like, oh I brought somebody, and then but

1019
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 5: it's not your fault exactly, and then you know, truly,

1020
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 5: I'm even being like, yeah, I came to spy on you,

1021
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 5: like you just have to know.

1022
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: Like I was completely brandished.

1023
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 7: All indoctrinated.

1024
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:48,840
Speaker 2: It's so wild.

1025
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, everybody's doing things they wouldn't normally do.

1026
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: Briefly after I left, she had everybody from the group

1027
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: come steal all my plants from my yard when I

1028
00:51:59,400 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: was out of town.

1029
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 4: I know, not everybody that would all be That's a

1030
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 4: really good example. She was very good at putting people

1031
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 4: up to things while making it seem like it was

1032
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 4: their ideas. So like she didn't call me and say, hey,

1033
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 4: go steal all Camille's plants. She called me and spent

1034
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 4: an hour crying about all the plants she had given

1035
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 4: Camille and how much she missed those babies and how

1036
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 4: she just couldn't stand the idea that they were going

1037
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 4: to go away with her, and so on and so

1038
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 4: forth until I went over there and got them. So

1039
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,240
Speaker 4: when she has this plausable deniability of well, I didn't

1040
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 4: tell you to do that.

1041
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 2: She's a smart, brilliant Yeah, she's very intelligent.

1042
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 4: That's I think one of the most dangerous things about her.

1043
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 2: She's a doctor, a doctor as a PhD.

1044
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah she I mean, I don't was that trillium? Do

1045
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: you know if that was like for real? I'm pretty

1046
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 1: sure she did have a PhD.

1047
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure she couldn't have taught at the university

1048
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 4: without one, So I'm assuming that that was real.

1049
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 7: Did anyone ever report her to the university?

1050
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 5: Oh?

1051
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: Yes, she got fired for it?

1052
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:13,720
Speaker 7: Oh hell yeah?

1053
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: And then she taught online.

1054
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 3: Yeah better, I guess, yeah better. I mean, so, Camille,

1055
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 3: you had this experience with her demanding that you say

1056
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 3: that you were lying about something you were obviously not

1057
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 3: lying about. So I guess I wasn't super clear on

1058
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 3: how did the actual transition, like, what did the what

1059
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 3: did that final decision look like?

1060
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 1: Uh? So, Really the kicker for me was when she

1061
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: said that I couldn't tell my mom about it, because

1062
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:52,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I wasn't lying. I wasn't. I mean I was.

1063
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: I was crying and sobbing like more than I've ever

1064
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,239
Speaker 1: cried in my life on the phone with her. She's

1065
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: telling me, I'm going to strip you of your degrees

1066
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: if you even stay. People had come to my house

1067
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: saying they can't trust me anymore. So basically they were saying,

1068
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: the only way you can stay in the group is

1069
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 1: if you tell us that you were lying, and it

1070
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 1: wasn't and I wasn't going to say that. I didn't

1071
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: want to stay hard enough. And the fact that she

1072
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: was saying I couldn't talk to my mom about this,

1073
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: that was the only thing I wanted to do was

1074
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: to call my mom and cry, My mom is the best.

1075
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: She's an angel, she is heaven sent. And I think

1076
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that Kathy always was jealous of.

1077
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: I was one of the only people who had a

1078
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: super strong connection with their mom. She always wanted to

1079
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: play mommy with everyone, but she could never fully do

1080
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: that with me. I mean, she went as far as

1081
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: trying to convince me that she was my first mom

1082
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: in a past life.

1083
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 2: Oh my god, she did.

1084
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, she did did astral projection life. I'm not surprised,

1085
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: but I did.

1086
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 2: Not know that she's that of everything.

1087
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, she did astral project which was basically she

1088
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:07,240
Speaker 9: would I would guess essentially hypnotize us and like travel

1089
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 9: us to a past life or a future life.

1090
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: And then kind of I feel like, I don't know,

1091
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: I've made a lot of shit up in my head,

1092
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: but I mean she tried to, you know, make you

1093
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: believe it, and and kind of it feels like some

1094
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 1: of the stories that we got out of that word

1095
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: somewhat led, if you.

1096
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 7: Know what I mean, right, yeah, totally.

1097
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1098
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 3: As someone whose mom is her best friend as well,

1099
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 3: I feel you on needing to be able to tell

1100
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 3: your mom shit if Yeah, But I will say, like

1101
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 3: there would be many people in your situation who probably

1102
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 3: would pretend that they'd been lying because they were under

1103
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 3: so much pressure. And I mean, I think it's really

1104
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 3: incredible that you were able to like hold your ground

1105
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 3: and not give into that, because that's I mean, yeah,

1106
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 3: that is like a very difficult situation to be in.

1107
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: I think it would have been a lot harder if

1108
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 1: I didn't have my mom. I mean, like I said,

1109
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: as soon as I had that conversation on the phone

1110
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,439
Speaker 1: with her, that was the last conversation I ever had

1111
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,479
Speaker 1: with her, where she's telling me, you may not even

1112
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: be able to stay, but we're stripping you of everything

1113
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: and all that you can't tell your mom. I'm sobbing.

1114
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 1: We hung up. I immediately called my mom and I

1115
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: think something. And that was liberating in the fact that

1116
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 1: before I had been afraid of telling my mom certain things,

1117
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:27,959
Speaker 1: but I wasn't scared anymore. It was like the worst

1118
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 1: thing that could happen has happened. Like I'm getting kicked

1119
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: out essentially, and I'm not scared anymore. Like this is it.

1120
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: Like this is as low as it can get in

1121
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: this group, and it's not worth it anymore. Followed my

1122
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 1: mom and told her everything.

1123
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1124
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,280
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just just another great example of how

1125
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 3: crucial isolation is to keeping control over people. And the

1126
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 3: fact that you had this connection outside of the group

1127
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 3: seems like that was such a big part of what

1128
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 3: helped you get out, and so so much of why

1129
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 3: she wanted you to not talk to anyone.

1130
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 7: That's the only way to control you.

1131
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 4: I will say on that note, that's a thing she

1132
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 4: was very good at. You know, Camille's talking about being

1133
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 4: afraid to call her mom, and she was very good

1134
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:18,120
Speaker 4: at making you convince that everyone you knew was talking

1135
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 4: to her and telling her everything, which made you very

1136
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 4: afraid to talk to anyone else, or to to talk

1137
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 4: to anyone else inside group or outside of the group, because,

1138
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:29,919
Speaker 4: like I said, I was very involved in the paying

1139
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 4: community in that area and still am. And she was

1140
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 4: very good at convincing me that, oh, those people aren't

1141
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 4: really your friends. You know, they tell me everything you say,

1142
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 4: even when I wasn't saying anything, you know, not allowed.

1143
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 4: She those triangulation games were strong with her.

1144
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, well then you always feel like you have to

1145
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 3: watch your back and be tiptoeing and be on your

1146
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 3: best behavior.

1147
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 7: This seems so hard.

1148
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 3: To be, like, to be lying to this many people

1149
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 3: and manipulating on this level. It seems like such a

1150
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 3: spider web of things you have to keep straight. I

1151
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 3: don't even know how you have the energy to do that, honestly,

1152
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 3: Like who you've told what, and who's talking about what

1153
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 3: to whom and what, whether you're awarewolf or a fucking vampire, Like,

1154
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 3: it's it's a lot.

1155
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 7: This woman has endless energy.

1156
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 1: It was really stressful at the end, before any of

1157
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: like the climactic events happened, I was feeling a lot

1158
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: more anxiety. I was, you know, my I was on

1159
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: medication which wasn't working, which is also another thing I

1160
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: did want to point out that she encouraged me to

1161
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: get off of my depression that way. Yeah, she made

1162
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: tinctures with herbs, and she's like, well these will all

1163
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: help if you do all these different ones. This any

1164
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: times to day is just as good, if not better. Yeah, reckless.

1165
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: So I was freshly off of my meds and feeling stressed,

1166
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: trying to keep track of what I said to who,

1167
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: like you said, this web of confusion.

1168
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 4: And let's not forget that everyone in her coven has anxiety.

1169
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:12,480
Speaker 4: It's like a magical DNA thing that couldn't possibly have

1170
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 4: anything to do with you. In this high measure environment,

1171
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 4: you never know when the flour is going to fall

1172
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 4: out from under youth that had anxiety. It couldn't have

1173
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 4: been that she gave it to us, right, nor that

1174
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:27,280
Speaker 4: we were really part of the coven.

1175
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, oh my god, it's such a beautiful irony that

1176
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 5: the technique she used to keep both of you actually

1177
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 5: made both of you leave.

1178
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 2: That's nice, you know.

1179
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 5: Tell your mom, okay, calling her, you know, I'm taking

1180
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 5: your son. No you're not, we're leaving. Yeah, it's really

1181
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 5: nice though.

1182
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: You sort of beautiful karma.

1183
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, have other people left? Are you in touch

1184
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 3: with anyone else who used to be part of it?

1185
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 1: I'm actually in touch with the person who brought me in.

1186
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: We don't talk as much about the group specifically as

1187
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: Trilium and I do, but like I kind of just

1188
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: popped in on his Instagram and was like, hey, I

1189
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: got out, just saying hi, and you know, we just

1190
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: send each other funny memes and stuff at this point,

1191
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 1: but it's just I don't know, There's it's nice, you know. See.

1192
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: I've also reached out to another person, but I haven't

1193
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: really talked with her.

1194
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm in touch with a couple of other people,

1195
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 4: some of them, like I said, she kind of sucked

1196
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 4: in a large portion of my friend group, huh so,

1197
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 4: and we became not friends for a while because of

1198
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 4: that and been all the aftermath of everything falling out.

1199
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,920
Speaker 4: But they're out. I think they were out actually before me.

1200
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, they were out before I was, and

1201
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 4: we did reconnect. There's I've at least chatted with almost

1202
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 4: everyone who was there long term, except for the guy

1203
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 4: who brought you in, Camille, and I haven't been able

1204
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 4: to contact him. I'd really like to, but doesn't have

1205
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 4: a chance.

1206
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 3: I'm just interested in how you two were able to

1207
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 3: sort of get past what you experienced together and Trillium,

1208
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 3: I also just want to commend you for how much you're.

1209
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 7: Able to own.

1210
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 3: How you participated in Kathy's bullshit.

1211
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I will say that a mutual

1212
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 4: friend I think brokeered our reconnection initially who was never

1213
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 4: involved in the cult at all. But I think for me,

1214
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 4: a lot of it has to do with knowing that

1215
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 4: we were all victims of her manipulation and lies and deceit,

1216
01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:39,560
Speaker 4: and that makes it a lot easier to look at

1217
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 4: people that I had serious issues with at the time

1218
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 4: and go, oh wait, you weren't the problem. This was

1219
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 4: all coming from the Southern Fried narcissist.

1220
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're all being manipulated. And I feel like, you know,

1221
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 3: you look at people who were in exim or all

1222
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 3: of these groups and ended up recruiting a lot of people.

1223
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 3: And obviously there are different degrees, there are different degrees

1224
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 3: of things that happen. But like, ultimately the person at

1225
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 3: the top, who's the one who is sending down the

1226
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 3: instructions and sending down you know, like doing the manipulation,

1227
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 3: That is the person who is responsible for the majority

1228
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 3: of the things that happened.

1229
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 4: Right, I think that we have to be careful not

1230
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 4: to let ourselves too much off the hook. There is

1231
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 4: I have to look at myself and go, what is

1232
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 4: there in me that made me susceptible to that? What

1233
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 4: made me buy into that? And what do I need

1234
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 4: to heal so that I don't do it again?

1235
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1236
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 3: You know, I mean I think that's great and that's

1237
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 3: really important, and it is about finding that balance of like,

1238
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 3: I can take responsibility for what I'm responsible for, but

1239
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 3: I am not responsible for how the degree to which

1240
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 3: I was manipulated by a person who is like an

1241
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 3: active arcissist.

1242
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 7: And sorry, Camille, what you're gonna say, Yeah, I mean.

1243
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: I was just Trillian was the first person I spoke

1244
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 1: to who had also escaped after I left, and it

1245
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: was really hard for me to accept because I was

1246
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 1: fearful for a long time and she was involved in

1247
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff at the end, and so

1248
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: it was hard for me to trust that. But that

1249
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: mutual friend reaching out and telling me that yeah, well

1250
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 1: she got she got fucked over just as much as

1251
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: you did, if not more. I don't know that knowing

1252
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: that she got fulked over in a sad, weird way

1253
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: really helped me see, Okay, yeah, well she's also a

1254
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 1: fucking victim of this bitch like this crazy psychoh like yeah,

1255
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 1: and I at that point, I had been out for

1256
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: a year, and I was really struggling mentally and really

1257
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 1: felt alone and isolated and in this and I really

1258
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: needed somebody to talk to you about, like I thought

1259
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,919
Speaker 1: about this shit that happened the other day, that it's.

1260
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 5: So important, Yeah, to have somebody who understand the language

1261
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 5: the like person.

1262
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so great.

1263
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you've found each other and are talking

1264
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 3: about this and hopefully, you know, you can continue to

1265
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 3: connect with people who are also victims.

1266
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 7: Of Kathy.

1267
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 6: Of the Southern Tribe narcissist.

1268
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 8: As you say, I think that you know, with you

1269
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,919
Speaker 8: saying that knowing that someone else got fucked over makes

1270
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 8: you more willing to talk to them.

1271
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 4: I think that also has to do at least for

1272
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 4: me knowing that they've been burned badly enough that they

1273
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 4: really are out, Because a lot of people will get

1274
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 4: kicked out and end up going back, and it's the

1275
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 4: extreme fucking over was enough that I think that's why

1276
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 4: Comia was one of the first people I talked to

1277
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 4: was I knew she'd been burned badly enough that she

1278
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 4: really was out and it was not as big of

1279
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 4: a risk.

1280
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 3: Right, that's a really good point. Yeah, yeah, it can be.

1281
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 3: That can be an ongoing process for years for people.

1282
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. With the guy that I was seeing, it was

1283
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:55,800
Speaker 1: similar because I was kind of his antagonist and his

1284
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 1: getting out because we were dating when he was trying

1285
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:03,080
Speaker 1: to get out of the group, right, And then Kathy

1286
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: at that time was like whispering into my ear, he's

1287
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 1: leaving you. He doesn't want to be with you, he's

1288
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: cheating on you, he's leaving you, not leaving the cult,

1289
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 1: he's leaving you. And so for the longest time I

1290
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: thought of him so negatively. But when I kind of

1291
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 1: finally had that realization, I reached out at that time

1292
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 1: and you know, told him about what happened. But I mean,

1293
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: it just goes to show how manipulative she is when

1294
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:33,280
Speaker 1: people are getting out, and how she and triangulates people

1295
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:38,160
Speaker 1: and makes everyone the enemy when they're leaving. And yeah,

1296
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: so you don't reach out, hopefully probably if you.

1297
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:42,960
Speaker 2: Do get out master manipulator.

1298
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm like, yeah, I mean, this is she's she

1299
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 5: deserves an award or something, well, a bad award.

1300
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 3: Imagine if she put that energy and intelligence towards anything.

1301
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 7: Useful, I know, really anything, I know.

1302
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 2: I know.

1303
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, can you both tell us just what do

1304
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 3: you what have.

1305
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 7: You learned from this whole experience? What are your takeaways?

1306
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 1: Red flags? Oh? I you know, I've learned a lot

1307
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 1: of red flags to look out for. I don't know,

1308
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit more of a loner these days,

1309
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 1: just because I was so quick to trust with her

1310
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 1: that I feel like I've had to put more of

1311
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: a guard up. Yeah, he's yeah, yeah, But I mean

1312
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,320
Speaker 1: I've learned a lot about like certain boundaries that I

1313
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: need to set for myself after that experience, and certain

1314
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 1: things to look out for with gaslighting and manipulation. Typically,

1315
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:39,439
Speaker 1: if somebody's narcissists, they're pointing fingers at everybody else calling

1316
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 1: them narcissist. So that's a red flag. And she certainly

1317
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 1: did that.

1318
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 3: Oh don't you love that tactic of just calling everyone else.

1319
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 7: What they are? They always do that.

1320
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: Speaking of that, Right before I left Funny Fact, there

1321
01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: was a group lesson called Dun Dun Dumb. Why we're

1322
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 1: not in a cult.

1323
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 2: Hey, that's pretty smart.

1324
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 6: That is so common too, that's so funny.

1325
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:10,440
Speaker 2: I know, Oh my god, what about you?

1326
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I would agree with all of that that.

1327
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 4: It has definitely taught me. I've learned so much about

1328
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:23,720
Speaker 4: narcissists and cults of personality and red flags, and I've

1329
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 4: gotten a lot better at setting boundaries and knowing the

1330
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 4: things that are deal breakers up front. For me, specifically,

1331
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 4: I don't cut slack for people who want to tell

1332
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 4: me one thing and another person another thing, and I'm

1333
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 4: going to tell this person over hear this, but don't

1334
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 4: tell them because I need I was never about those games,

1335
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 4: but I tolerated them because I loved her right and

1336
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 4: I did love her.

1337
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:53,439
Speaker 7: Yeah, of course.

1338
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 4: But I will never cut that kind of slack again.

1339
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1340
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm proud of you both. I know me too.

1341
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 7: Amazing.

1342
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 2: That's wow. What a journey.

1343
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 7: How are you guys now?

1344
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 6: Are you What are your lives like? Are you happy?

1345
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 7: Are you thriving? What's going on?

1346
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: I am growing plants at a nursery now in New Orleans,

1347
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 1: has like a job, and I make pretty good money,

1348
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 1: I mean, not great, but I'm living alone and supporting myself.

1349
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:20,719
Speaker 7: Awesome.

1350
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:22,639
Speaker 4: I get paid to play with dogs.

1351
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 2: Dream life.

1352
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, I you know, have a roommate who I adore life.

1353
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 4: My kid is doing well. He doesn't remember hardly any

1354
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 4: of this because he was very young at the time.

1355
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 7: Good.

1356
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 4: Once in a long while, i'll get a question about

1357
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 4: did we do social SOCIALID? Yeah, yeah that was you know,

1358
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 4: that was that was what those bad people who try

1359
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 4: to take me away from you, Yes, that is what

1360
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:46,840
Speaker 4: that was.

1361
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:47,639
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1362
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:50,600
Speaker 4: But overall, yeah, no, life is good. I am. Like

1363
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:52,800
Speaker 4: I said, I'm still involved in the pagan community. I'm

1364
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:56,960
Speaker 4: still pagan. It's one thing that shocked me a lot

1365
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 4: was how much, once I was well and truly out,

1366
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 4: how many people came to me with, Oh my god,

1367
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 4: I'm so glad that you're we can be friends now.

1368
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,760
Speaker 4: I'm so glad that you're out of that. You know

1369
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 4: that I had an entire community, that community I was

1370
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:15,960
Speaker 4: looking for was just waiting for me. As soon as

1371
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,479
Speaker 4: I wasn't underheard thone, Oh that's beautiful.

1372
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:20,200
Speaker 6: I'm so glad.

1373
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 2: I hope that for everyone.

1374
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't really do much witchcraft anymore because I

1375
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 1: hadn't really dipped my toe in before everything. I don't.

1376
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:33,600
Speaker 1: I don't really fox with it no more. I don't know.

1377
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: It's the vibe is still weird. I like astrology, that's

1378
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 1: still But I found a really good community down here.

1379
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 1: Costumes being weird, listening to good music, you know, love,

1380
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: that's my cult love.

1381
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 3: I'm gonna DM you when I eventually visit New Orleans,

1382
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 3: which hopefully will be next year, and you can show

1383
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 3: us the cool places.

1384
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'll show you all the good trees.

1385
01:09:58,960 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 7: Awesome.

1386
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 3: Well, is there anything that you guys want to like?

1387
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 3: Do you want to put your social media handles or

1388
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 3: is there anything you want to mention or promote or anything.

1389
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:09,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you can follow me at my Instagram, Greenwitch

1390
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 1: of Nola. Other than that, I'm just chilling. It's just

1391
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of flower picks and plants and butterflies and.

1392
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 7: Stuff that sounds lovely cool. Well, thanks so much for

1393
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 7: talking to us, both of you.

1394
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 3: I think I speak for both of us when I

1395
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 3: say we really admire you and everything that you have

1396
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 3: overcome overcome. Yeah, yeah, and thank you again for reaching

1397
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 3: out Camille. I'm really glad we made this happen.

1398
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you guys so much for the podcast. It's

1399
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:36,000
Speaker 1: really been so helpful for me hearing about other people's experiences.

1400
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:38,839
Speaker 1: It makes me feel less alone, and I'm really thankful

1401
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:40,120
Speaker 1: for it.

1402
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:44,400
Speaker 5: It makes our hearts beat. Yeah, it makes us so happy.

1403
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 5: It makes our hearts to beat.

1404
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 2: Yeah that makes sense.

1405
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 7: Wow.

1406
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:49,960
Speaker 6: No, honestly, well, I'm glad your heart is beating.

1407
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I need compliments to make it keep beating.

1408
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: Guys, No, you're not a vampire.

1409
01:10:58,560 --> 01:10:59,519
Speaker 2: I'm aware aware of Well.

1410
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 5: Yes, well, thank you for being so open and yeah,

1411
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 5: have a great eating Yeah.

1412
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 4: Please, thank you for having us. You know, Camille, thanks

1413
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 4: for including me in asking me to join you on this.

1414
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 1: Truly, I'm really glad you came. Couldn't have done it

1415
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:13,960
Speaker 1: without you.

1416
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,520
Speaker 4: Seriously, things come a little bit full circle sometimes.

1417
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 2: It really does.

1418
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 3: What amazing women I am. I am so glad that

1419
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 3: they shared their stories with us, and I'm so glad

1420
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,920
Speaker 3: they found each other. I now would like to ask

1421
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,759
Speaker 3: you the question, which is, would you join this coven?

1422
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 5: Absolutely? One hundred percent sign me up? Where's the way?

1423
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 5: I would yes, yes, especially if I was Camille being

1424
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 5: a lonely freshman and then finding this group of people.

1425
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:45,719
Speaker 2: It's it's a movie.

1426
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 5: I would have been so sucked in and then they're like,

1427
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 5: oh my god, we've been expecting a libra who's bisexual,

1428
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 5: but I've been like, oh my god, like fully fully yeah,

1429
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 5: fully done.

1430
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, I totally get it.

1431
01:11:59,439 --> 01:11:59,679
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1432
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 3: The one time, I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but

1433
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 3: I got really interested in like Wiccan stuff. So I

1434
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 3: went to a couple of like Wiccan meetup groups Wickan Pagan.

1435
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:10,639
Speaker 3: The woman running them.

1436
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:12,639
Speaker 7: Had this long gray hair and.

1437
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,720
Speaker 3: She literally looked like when you picture a witch that's

1438
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:16,599
Speaker 3: it in a movie.

1439
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 6: This is what she looked like.

1440
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:22,720
Speaker 3: And the house smelled like cinnamon, and there were cats everywhere,

1441
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 3: and we were talking, sitting down and talking about this

1442
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 3: like these like ancient rituals. And you know, while I'm

1443
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 3: not an especially, I'm not one to necessarily gravitate toward

1444
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 3: mysticism or spiritual groups in that way, it was still

1445
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 3: very alluring even as someone who's me, because it was

1446
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 3: really more about like diving into the history and earth, yeah, earth.

1447
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:46,679
Speaker 6: And herbs and rituals.

1448
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:48,960
Speaker 3: I love rituals like I might not believe they have

1449
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 3: magical powers, but I love participating in them.

1450
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 7: They feel.

1451
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:56,120
Speaker 6: I don't know, they make me feel like I'm.

1452
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, alive.

1453
01:12:58,200 --> 01:12:59,920
Speaker 3: I couldn't think of a better thing to say that,

1454
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 3: but so yeah, even even being me, I think joining

1455
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:07,360
Speaker 3: showing up to this group, especially with this woman in

1456
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 3: charge who happens to be professor, which, as we all know,

1457
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:12,640
Speaker 3: is my is my kryptonite.

1458
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:13,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1459
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 5: One plus one equals you're gone forever. Yeah, this would

1460
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:19,240
Speaker 5: have been a tough one, especially.

1461
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:20,280
Speaker 3: If it's on a farm. She said it was on

1462
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 3: a farm, right, Yeah, on a farm, Like, come on,

1463
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 3: come on, I'm all I want is to like read

1464
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 3: books with weird ladies on a farm, Like that's my dream. Yeah.

1465
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 3: Also with like at least one hot guy, ideally Jack. Yeah,

1466
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 3: of course you know how we do.

1467
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 6: All right. Well that's the end of it for now.

1468
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:42,120
Speaker 5: It is it is. We are so glad that you

1469
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 5: guys are here with us. We can't wait to see

1470
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 5: you again next week. Remember to follow your gut, watch

1471
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 5: out for red flats, and never.

1472
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:53,519
Speaker 6: Ever trust me. Thank bye.

1473
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 3: Trust Me is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and Steve.

1474
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 2: Dellan, with special thanks to Stacy Para.

1475
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 6: And her theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1476
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:07,680
Speaker 5: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1477
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 5: Twitter at trust Me Cult pod or on TikTok At

1478
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 5: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1479
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,520
Speaker 6: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1480
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 5: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1481
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 5: Hicks on Twitter.

1482
01:14:21,160 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 6: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.