Speaker 1: Welcome back to Sheep Pivots. I'm Sally Christisen. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Sheep Pivots. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. When
Speaker 1: I was planning this season, I wanted to make sure
Speaker 1: she pivots was a means for building connections. I said
Speaker 1: during our season launch party that we're the generation of
Speaker 1: women who build bridges and don't tear each other down.
Speaker 2: And she pivots as a way to empower women to.
Speaker 1: Look inward, to find success for themselves and not buy
Speaker 1: society standards.
Speaker 2: And it's working.
Speaker 1: We're seeing a substantial change in the way women think
Speaker 1: about and talk about their lives and their careers. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to dig deeper into these pivotal moments through
Speaker 1: these shorter, more conversational.
Speaker 2: Candid conbos this season. Let's jump right in.
Speaker 1: If you know me, you know I love an argent
Speaker 1: suit and I'm so excited to have these. Sally Christison
Speaker 1: on the show today to talk about how she's transforming
Speaker 1: the businesswear industry for women. Her famous hot pink suit
Speaker 1: has been worn by Kerrie Washington, Ashley Graham, Governor Gretchen Whitmar,
Speaker 1: or Big Gretch, and so many more. She's truly defined
Speaker 1: how women think about work wear, and she doesn't seem
Speaker 1: to be slowing down. Stay tuned for another inspiring and
Speaker 1: cantid conversation.
Speaker 3: My name is Sally Christensen. I'm the founder and CEO
Speaker 3: of Argent.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we'll do we'll just do like a little
Speaker 1: like just a quick background here. Where did you grow up?
Speaker 1: What did you see yourself doing when you grew up?
Speaker 1: Were you dancing around in suits?
Speaker 2: Not at all.
Speaker 3: I grew up in Hardyville, South Carolina, on a farm.
Speaker 3: I spent my summers in Turkey. So my dad's Turkish
Speaker 3: and my mom is very Southern, and that combination shaped
Speaker 3: a lot of who I am. Entrepreneurial, That's what I am.
Speaker 3: With that said, I think that my upbringing shaped a
Speaker 3: lot of what I'm doing now because I grew up
Speaker 3: in a place that I didn't feel like I had
Speaker 3: a lot of modeling or options in terms of what
Speaker 3: career could look like because I was in the Southeast,
Speaker 3: which is really banking, law and healthcare.
Speaker 1: Well, when you say that that your your dad being
Speaker 1: Turkish and your mom being very Southern shaped you like,
Speaker 1: what traits of theirs?
Speaker 2: Was it their relationship. Was it each of their own
Speaker 2: traits that shaped.
Speaker 3: You well, I think having the perspective that I did,
Speaker 3: like from traveling to Turkey quite frequently. I just it's
Speaker 3: a completely different culture. It's much more familial. My dad's
Speaker 3: one of ten siblings. I have one bajillion cousins. And
Speaker 3: we would spend our summers in Kumba and we'd all
Speaker 3: stay in this one apartment building. Kumba is a small
Speaker 3: beach town outside of Istanbul, and we would spend our
Speaker 3: days going from one floor to the other to the
Speaker 3: other and seeing different aunts and uncles, seeing my grandmother,
Speaker 3: seeing like our great aunt, and it was just so special,
Speaker 3: and it gave me such an appreciation for Islam, for
Speaker 3: the Middle East, just for you know, all of these
Speaker 3: things that I grew up, you know, that was half
Speaker 3: of who I am. And I also grew up speaking Turkish,
Speaker 3: so it just really is a huge part of me.
Speaker 3: And then the South is the South. I'm really grateful
Speaker 3: to have had that because I think it gives me
Speaker 3: a deep understanding of what's happening in our country right now.
Speaker 3: But it was a really special place. Like I spent
Speaker 3: most of my days outdoors. I would go jump on
Speaker 3: a horse and ride bareback, like been doing very dangerous things,
Speaker 3: very adventurous things, but as a really spirited child. But
Speaker 3: I think that like a lot of people don't really
Speaker 3: get out of South Carolina. So the fact that I
Speaker 3: got the option to do that with these trips to
Speaker 3: Turkey really gave me perspective.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a spirited child, I have one of those. I
Speaker 2: know that two of those. I know how that goes.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. First of all, one of ten siblings
Speaker 1: my mind. But I mean Argent is about the work woman,
Speaker 1: which is so interesting. What I loved that broadsheet, Like,
Speaker 1: I love the way the broadsheet was framed by the
Speaker 1: way like you are honing in on that, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to get back to that later.
Speaker 2: Was your mom a professional? Did she wear suits?
Speaker 3: No? My mom was, and this was pretty consistent with
Speaker 3: all of my friends. She was a mom and she
Speaker 3: was the best, and she very much shaped who I am.
Speaker 3: She's she right now works the farm, like that's her
Speaker 3: dream as to drive a tractor and to be on
Speaker 3: her own. And she's very tough, and I think that
Speaker 3: she inspired a lot of who I am. But no,
Speaker 3: I think that the modeling that I saw from a
Speaker 3: work perspective came more from television, my dad, my parents
Speaker 3: raising me without really putting gender norms on me, and
Speaker 3: so I used to my dad's a he's an entrepreneur.
Speaker 3: He had a rug shop that he which is pretty
Speaker 3: typical that he ran out of our house when I
Speaker 3: was really young and then had a shop in Hilton Head,
Speaker 3: South Carolina, and I used to go with him, and
Speaker 3: it was there that I remember being like, all I
Speaker 3: want is like a stapler and a desk, like the
Speaker 3: Internet didn't even exist, but I was like, I just
Speaker 3: want to work, like this is this speaks to me.
Speaker 1: Do you remember who it was on TV that modeled
Speaker 1: for you, Like I feel like maybe Murphy Brown, Katie Kuric,
Speaker 1: Katie Kuric.
Speaker 3: But I also watched like the NBA is as you know,
Speaker 3: it's like one of my favorite things on the planet.
Speaker 3: But also watching Men and Women. I think I think
Speaker 3: both were modeling for me. But I've grew up, you know,
Speaker 3: at the age of five watching Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen,
Speaker 3: et Cetera, Rosio O'Donnell. But I was really just consuming
Speaker 3: a lot of magazines, reading a lot of books, all
Speaker 3: kinds of things. There's no one person that really jumps out.
Speaker 3: But it was really like men and women that I
Speaker 3: was you know, it's pretty typical of kids our age.
Speaker 1: I feel, yeah, okay, I was thinking a lot about
Speaker 1: this in preparing for this conversation with you. You all
Speaker 1: please describe your father as an entrepreneur, which like when
Speaker 1: does someone get the title of entrepreneur?
Speaker 2: Like what about it? Did you give him the title?
Speaker 1: Like what makes someone an entrepreneur versus a small business
Speaker 1: owner versus like opening a lot of business or one business?
Speaker 3: Like why do you describe him that way? So I
Speaker 3: actually think my mom will hate this. But my dad
Speaker 3: grew up with no running water. They would share clothes
Speaker 3: to be able to go to school, and he started
Speaker 3: selling water in the Turkish bazaars at the age of five,
Speaker 3: and he was constantly having to hustle to make money
Speaker 3: for his family in order for them to put food
Speaker 3: on the table. And through doing that, he learned so
Speaker 3: many languages. I mean, he is such a lovely, special
Speaker 3: human being, and he learned so much about people and
Speaker 3: different cultures. And I was just such an ambitious person
Speaker 3: by necessity, to be honest, But he is the third
Speaker 3: in the family, and there's a lot of pressure on men,
Speaker 3: especially you know, antiquated, outdated gender and expectations. But there
Speaker 3: was a lot of pressure on him to provide for
Speaker 3: the family. And so then, you know, he worked his
Speaker 3: entire life and then he worked in the bazaars and
Speaker 3: Turkey selling rugs eventually, and that's where he met my
Speaker 3: mom and they I mean.
Speaker 2: That's the whole story in and of itself. It's fantastic.
Speaker 3: But then he moved back with her eventually and opened
Speaker 3: his own rugshop. But I mean, just the sheer nature
Speaker 3: of what he's always done is like, define whatever it
Speaker 3: is that he's going to be selling, and he owns
Speaker 3: the entire experience and process of that and the good
Speaker 3: and the bad that comes with that.
Speaker 2: Okay, but now I want to hear about how your
Speaker 2: parent's met.
Speaker 3: So my mom she comes from a more privileged background,
Speaker 3: so I'll say that, so their backgrounds are very, very.
Speaker 2: Different, which is also shaped who I am.
Speaker 3: She went abroad after graduating from college with a group
Speaker 3: of friends and they did this six month trek through Europe.
Speaker 3: They went into Russia and they were in Turkey for
Speaker 3: a short stint and while they were there, their tour guide,
Speaker 3: who was Turkish, was bringing them through Istanbul, and my
Speaker 3: dad saw my mom at a post office and asked
Speaker 3: her to go out with him, and she politely declined.
Speaker 3: And then later that day they were in the bazaar
Speaker 3: and he saw her again and asked her out, and
Speaker 3: she'd declined again, and then he convinced the tour guide
Speaker 3: to ask her best friend so they could do a
Speaker 3: double date to make her more comfortable. They went out
Speaker 3: that night. He took her rowing his big grower, and
Speaker 3: then they finished. My mom and her group finished their
Speaker 3: trip and she ended up moving back to Turkey in
Speaker 3: with my dad, which she used to be the story
Speaker 3: I told us if it's normal, and now that I'm
Speaker 3: an adult, I'm like, oh, that's wild. Wild, I'm like, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3: Then she just moved in with him and stayed there
Speaker 3: for a year to the wait where my very traditional
Speaker 3: grandfather was writing letters to Turkey threatening my dad to
Speaker 3: like send his daughter home, and then they ended up
Speaker 3: moving back to Asheville, North Carolina, which is where my parents.
Speaker 3: My grandparents were in retirement and eventually got married. But
Speaker 3: they're still married forty something plus years.
Speaker 2: I could do the Math forty eight.
Speaker 3: But the best part of the story is actually that
Speaker 3: the other couple is also married living in Ashville, North Carolina.
Speaker 2: No, that is wild. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, the matches that happen in a Turkish bazaar are
Speaker 1: like better than mumble, Like, this is unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So that's really what I hope to take away of
Speaker 3: this episode to be is for everyone to rush to
Speaker 3: Turkey to the bazaar that's looking for a relationship.
Speaker 2: It's there.
Speaker 1: Do you think that that's sort of like pick up
Speaker 1: and move, like pick up and go story, really, like
Speaker 1: you really internalize that, like as a normal thing to do,
Speaker 1: because when you graduated college, you just picked up and
Speaker 1: moved to Chicago like you didn't know anyone, you didn't
Speaker 1: have a job.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm probably inspired by my parents for sure. I
Speaker 3: think that they did a really great job raising me.
Speaker 2: I just I love them very much.
Speaker 3: I have an older brother, and they gave me the
Speaker 3: confidence to just pursue whatever felt right.
Speaker 2: And I think my entire upbringing.
Speaker 3: As much as I appreciate and loved being raised in
Speaker 3: the Southeast, it was obviously that's not really where I
Speaker 3: was meant to be. Long Like in my adulthood, and
Speaker 3: so after college, I knew I wanted a big city,
Speaker 3: and everyone kept saying New York was way too big,
Speaker 3: which I would have loved New York, you know, but
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, what's like the next next option?
Speaker 2: So I just chose Chicago and moved there sight unseen.
Speaker 2: Were you prepared for the wind? Yes, you knew it
Speaker 2: was coming. Nope, I was prepared for whatever was going
Speaker 2: to come my way. I figured it out. How did
Speaker 2: you figure it? Like? Did you get off the plane
Speaker 2: and went where I'd scout? Did so.
Speaker 3: Through I studied abroad my senior year in college, and
Speaker 3: I met kids from all over the country, and when
Speaker 3: we came back, we would do these reunions. And one
Speaker 3: of those reunions took place in the University of Oregon
Speaker 3: and one of my best friends from studying abroad was
Speaker 3: his best friend from growing up is now my husband.
Speaker 3: But I met him during one of those trips. Was
Speaker 3: the last week of college, Dave. Dave moved to Chicago.
Speaker 3: So Dave, who I met one time, was in Chicago
Speaker 3: and I was like, can I come check out apartments?
Speaker 3: And like, will you just show me around? He was
Speaker 3: definitely not interested. In a relationship at that point and
Speaker 3: had a lot of growth in front of him. But
Speaker 3: that was like my only real connection to the city.
Speaker 3: And I found an apartment, went home, packed up my car,
Speaker 3: drove to the city, and then just started networking.
Speaker 2: Wait, okay, this is a new element of this.
Speaker 1: Was there an underlying there that you were like, well,
Speaker 1: let me just see what happens if I'm in the
Speaker 1: same city as Dave or not, even like it was
Speaker 1: totally platonic.
Speaker 2: I think it was more.
Speaker 3: I think I was more focused on my career at
Speaker 3: that point, and that the happy coincidence of where things
Speaker 3: have gone with Dave is, you know, just the upside
Speaker 3: of that choice.
Speaker 1: So did it take a while before you guys started years?
Speaker 2: Years before? Did you say friends the whole time? Are
Speaker 2: you just again at a Turkish bazaar to run?
Speaker 3: We both went to Turkey, but we we a lot
Speaker 3: of my friend group was formed through Dave's friend group
Speaker 3: as well, So like a friend of theirs growing up
Speaker 3: had gone to Northwestern, so we became friends with a
Speaker 3: lot of kids from Northwestern.
Speaker 2: I was just really social at.
Speaker 3: That stage, and we didn't have phones, we didn't use
Speaker 3: technology in the same way, so we were really like
Speaker 3: forced to get out and just be social. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: those were some of the best years of my life
Speaker 3: because you're not close enough to family, so your friends
Speaker 3: become your family and you have to really I mean,
Speaker 3: there's so much learning your early twenties. And I actually
Speaker 3: sat around after college for a long time waiting for
Speaker 3: someone who would live with me, and I was so
Speaker 3: annoyed because everyone would like fake commit and then just
Speaker 3: not really not really like do it. And so I
Speaker 3: finally just did it on my own because I was
Speaker 3: so annoyed by that. I have a very real bias
Speaker 3: for action. And it was the best decision I ever made.
Speaker 3: Its firt of set me on the past that I
Speaker 3: this journey and we've moved a lot though since then,
Speaker 3: but it just sort of gave me the confidence, I think,
Speaker 3: to just take big risks and put myself out there and.
Speaker 2: It all works out.
Speaker 1: I feel like you just put language to something that
Speaker 1: I felt my entire life and never known how to
Speaker 1: articulate a bias for action. Oh yeah, did you come
Speaker 1: up with that term yourself? I really feel that.
Speaker 2: I sure didn't.
Speaker 3: There was my manager at Cisco used that to describe
Speaker 3: me once and I was like, what does it mean?
Speaker 3: So so then I figured out what it meant and
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, yeah that's me.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's incredible. I love that came from a manager.
Speaker 1: I feel like I got like the negative version of
Speaker 1: that in performance reviews. That was like you're always jumping
Speaker 1: ahead of everyone, Like why don't you let the process
Speaker 1: play out?
Speaker 2: Isn't that?
Speaker 3: So like female specific though, I feel like we get
Speaker 3: the worst professional like guidance sometimes stay in your lane,
Speaker 3: do less, you know, just be perfect cool, great.
Speaker 1: Totally, so okay, so you got you were always thinking
Speaker 1: about yourself, like you wanted the stapler, the desk, you
Speaker 1: wanted the job, like I love thinking about Like young Sally,
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm here to network and I'm also here
Speaker 1: to be a corporate boss.
Speaker 2: You know what's funny.
Speaker 3: I was actually in Chicago to have a good time.
Speaker 3: So undergrad, I was the worst student on the planet.
Speaker 3: I've really just banked on my like I'm smart enough.
Speaker 3: I like didn't apply myself. So I was like i'll
Speaker 3: get I'll be fine, I'll get like b's and c's
Speaker 3: and we'll call it a day.
Speaker 2: But I was very social, and I.
Speaker 3: Actually think that that was is one of the best
Speaker 3: decisions I have made. Granted, I'll think, oh, I wish
Speaker 3: I'd spent more time in the library, because that's not
Speaker 3: what I love. Like, I love learning. I'm a total introvert,
Speaker 3: you know. I've really accepted who I am more. But
Speaker 3: in those days, it was a great exercise of like
Speaker 3: human learning, and that I think is like sixty percent
Speaker 3: of success, if not more, is understanding people and how
Speaker 3: people operate, and like understanding like your self and how
Speaker 3: to interact with different people and just sort of navigating
Speaker 3: and like the networking aspect of things and the life
Speaker 3: aspect of things, and understanding people's motivations, et cetera. So
Speaker 3: I actually think that was really a huge takeaway from undergrad,
Speaker 3: which I then applied to Chicago because my plan was
Speaker 3: to go back to grad school and I knew that,
Speaker 3: so I just wanted a job that I was learning
Speaker 3: from because I am always wanting to just be learning.
Speaker 3: That's like a that's a trend that you'll see throughout
Speaker 3: all my career choices. But in Chicago, I spent more
Speaker 3: time being social as well. And then once I got
Speaker 3: back into grad school, top of the class, I feel like.
Speaker 1: I am learning so much about myself in this conversation.
Speaker 3: I have like.
Speaker 2: These ways that you are illuminating.
Speaker 1: And reframing choices that I made, like are making me
Speaker 1: reflect on this.
Speaker 2: Like. Similarly, I did not do like I was terrible
Speaker 2: in college.
Speaker 1: I was just partying and I but I've never looked
Speaker 1: upon that favorably, like I don't tend to look back
Speaker 1: on my own choices with a lot of regret. Like
Speaker 1: I think that regret is sort of like a wasted
Speaker 1: agree a wasted feeling, because I think you learn something
Speaker 1: out of all of it. The one thing I do
Speaker 1: kind of regret is really how little I applied myself
Speaker 1: in college.
Speaker 2: I really missed a lot of opportunity.
Speaker 1: I don't think I was doing any like particularly sophisticated
Speaker 1: thinking about navigating interpersonal relationships.
Speaker 2: I think I was just partying all of the time.
Speaker 1: But then similarly, I went to law school and I
Speaker 1: was like a different person, Like it turned on for me.
Speaker 1: I was applied in the first time and similarly graduated
Speaker 1: in the top of my class because I was a
Speaker 1: different person.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: But I didn't know I was going to go to
Speaker 1: grad school. I thought I wasn't smart because I had
Speaker 1: done so badly in college. So what about you gave
Speaker 1: you that confidence to think like, oh, I'll just turn
Speaker 1: it on to grad school.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was intentional, like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: benefiting from hindsight and these stories. But I have always
Speaker 3: my parents will say, I've always been confident. And it's
Speaker 3: similar to what you said about regret, Like I think
Speaker 3: there's certain things where we own these emotions and we
Speaker 3: deserve to be like kind to ourselves. We deserve to
Speaker 3: be confident, and it's a learned trait for some people,
Speaker 3: you know, but we waste we waste a lot of
Speaker 3: energy on guilt, on shame, on all sorts of things.
Speaker 3: And so it's I don't know, probably like I have
Speaker 3: a natural tendency toward like to be confident, but it's
Speaker 3: something that I wish for everyone because it does shape
Speaker 3: kind of your life experience, you know, But I don't.
Speaker 2: I just have had it. I don't know. I don't
Speaker 2: know why.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you didn't just go to graduate school. You
Speaker 1: went to get your MBA. That's really serious. That's a
Speaker 1: really serious question.
Speaker 2: In law school's not Yeah, but I thought I was
Speaker 2: going to be a lawyer.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And I thought I had to go to
Speaker 1: law school because I was going to be a lawyer. Sure,
Speaker 1: Like NBA is just like, well, I think I'm good
Speaker 1: at business, and I want to be really good at business.
Speaker 2: You know what it is for me.
Speaker 3: So the way that I operate is I really need context.
Speaker 3: So if you just come at me with like a
Speaker 3: story and it's a piece of something, I struggle a
Speaker 3: little bit if I don't have like full context. So
Speaker 3: knowing that about myself, I wanted to get some experience
Speaker 3: after undergrad and I studied business and undergrad as well,
Speaker 3: I wanted some applied experience and I wanted to take
Speaker 3: that back into getting an.
Speaker 2: MBA because I needed a better.
Speaker 3: Understanding of like the major functions of business and in
Speaker 3: your twenties, you know nothing like I think back to
Speaker 3: some of the questions I asked in interviews as if
Speaker 3: I was smart, and I'm like, oh, I sounded just
Speaker 3: so young, you know. And so then I had that
Speaker 3: experience and as part of that, I lived abroad in
Speaker 3: German for a year, which was the draw to this
Speaker 3: particular program. It's the International MBA Program at the University
Speaker 3: of South Carolina, and so I got to live in Germany,
Speaker 3: and then I worked at Daimler as part of that
Speaker 3: and came back got hired at Cisco Systems and they
Speaker 3: have a leadership rotational program. And again it was like
Speaker 3: me wanting to have applied experience on the heels of
Speaker 3: academic experience. All of these choices were intentional to try
Speaker 3: and de risk starting my own company, and so I
Speaker 3: spent about ten years just trying to understand business as
Speaker 3: best I could and then took the lead.
Speaker 1: So you were always thinking there would be a company
Speaker 1: that you had found. In the end, it wasn't like
Speaker 1: I think some people come to this with like a
Speaker 1: specific product in mind or specific function in mind. You
Speaker 1: were thinking about skill building. Were you also looking to
Speaker 1: find what that company was going to be or you
Speaker 1: just felt like it would come to you.
Speaker 2: This was skill building. I love that articulation.
Speaker 3: That is certainly like it was in the back of
Speaker 3: my mind that I wanted to start a company.
Speaker 2: Period.
Speaker 3: I was passively there. I was not actively thinking what
Speaker 3: company should it be. I just assumed that it would
Speaker 3: present itself and the timing would present itself. And I
Speaker 3: actually actively tried to not start the company I ended
Speaker 3: up starting because I was like, I really like apparel
Speaker 3: seems tough, you know, and this is not what I do,
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. But it was just sort of
Speaker 3: like undeniably slapping me on the face that this was
Speaker 3: my calling.
Speaker 1: So here we are, Okay, we're gonna get there, and
Speaker 1: what's get to the founding? But what skills do you
Speaker 1: think that you did get? You know, whether it was
Speaker 1: to the international MBA like let's foreshadow a little bit,
Speaker 1: or whether it's like, I mean, ten years at Cisco
Speaker 1: is nothing.
Speaker 2: It slapped it like that's a serious.
Speaker 1: Not at Cisco, ten years across all of these oh,
Speaker 1: ten years across all of them, but like that's real
Speaker 1: time you put in there, Like what you know, if
Speaker 1: the premise of the show is like everything builds us
Speaker 1: to the next thing, Like what skills do you look
Speaker 1: back on now? And you were like, thank goodness, I
Speaker 1: did international what's it called like import export or you
Speaker 1: know whatever the thing was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean there's so many examples of it.
Speaker 3: I think we already touched on the piece about just
Speaker 3: interpersonal skills.
Speaker 2: All of that.
Speaker 3: I ended up in client facing roles generally and across
Speaker 3: all of my experiences, and I think that was sort
Speaker 3: of an obvious thing for me with a background like
Speaker 3: waiting tables, et cetera, you know, in my childhood and
Speaker 3: so in Chicago, I think there was a lot of
Speaker 3: personal development that needed to happen and growth. And then
Speaker 3: going into my MBA, I was an adult at twenty four.
Speaker 3: You know, we all were just I feel like we
Speaker 3: all reached that stage where we're like, I know everything.
Speaker 3: But then it was the grad school that I was
Speaker 3: forced into different groups and different projects, you know, carrying
Speaker 3: some weight of the team sometimes you know, like mixed
Speaker 3: caliber of partners, but they're like forcing you. And that's
Speaker 3: what all you do in grad school is just work
Speaker 3: together on projects, and so you're like carrying the load
Speaker 3: or the weight of the team sometimes and other times
Speaker 3: you've got like shared load.
Speaker 2: Well let's hope they listen to this podcast and feel
Speaker 2: called out. I just want to name, I'd just like
Speaker 2: to call out I want some accountability for you groups
Speaker 2: in this podcast.
Speaker 3: I've actually been building up to this moment where I
Speaker 3: can call out the people that forced me to do
Speaker 3: the projects.
Speaker 2: Company, the stores, the l profile. It was all building
Speaker 2: to this moment to call out your people.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just learned so much. Where I learned
Speaker 3: the most though, was definitely Cisco. So Cisco was I
Speaker 3: chose a program. It's Leadership Development rotational program for NBA students.
Speaker 3: They put four people in this program every year and
Speaker 3: you do six months and all the major functions of
Speaker 3: supply chain and Cisco as a top ten gartner supply chain.
Speaker 3: So in addition to that, because there's like an executive
Speaker 3: course that goes along with that where you're getting exposure
Speaker 3: to all the like top management at Cisco, which incorporate environments.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've had experience with this, those
Speaker 3: are like celebrities, you know, like it's like the weirdest dynamic.
Speaker 3: But it was so good because executives in tech at
Speaker 3: that level are excellent at what they do, Like they're
Speaker 3: so smart. They pushed me so much, and I cultivated
Speaker 3: these relationships with individuals that really helped me grow personally
Speaker 3: and professionally. I also really like honed my skills, my
Speaker 3: skills set around communication. My favorite saying is, if I'd
Speaker 3: had more time, I would have written you a shorter email.
Speaker 3: So good, so good, because it's like you have to
Speaker 3: take into consideration like who you're communicating with and how
Speaker 3: you and what you communicate and how much detail they
Speaker 3: need or how you distill it to like one sentence,
Speaker 3: because it's the CEO who is receiving a billion emails,
Speaker 3: you know. Yeah, so that consideration is probably what came
Speaker 3: from Cisco.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The last one is that at Cisco, I made the
Speaker 3: intentional choice to join the Cloud Group as which was
Speaker 3: a new initiative. They invested two billion dollars into Cloud
Speaker 3: they relate to the game, and I was the seventh
Speaker 3: person on a team that grew to two fifty in
Speaker 3: a year.
Speaker 2: And that was entrepreneurship. It was you know, I.
Speaker 3: Had the luxury of like you know, endless cash essentially
Speaker 3: and being able to learn on Cisco's dime. But I
Speaker 3: got to build a team, to find a team, grow
Speaker 3: a team, manage people for the first time, which is
Speaker 3: really you know, you learn a ton from doing that.
Speaker 3: And then I gained some confidence in myself through doing
Speaker 3: that and felt like, okay, this is the point, Like
Speaker 3: I'm ready.
Speaker 1: Like I've essentially launched a business without my own risk
Speaker 1: in it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I feel like I understand all that I
Speaker 3: needed to to go start something.
Speaker 1: I feel like what I'm hearing from you is when
Speaker 1: you say you know you love the context for something.
Speaker 1: I also think you give yourself context because if you're
Speaker 1: moving through all of these like this rotational program, in
Speaker 1: these different positions, where you go into it with the
Speaker 1: mindset of learning, that takes away some of the sting
Speaker 1: of like putting our own egos in it, of being like, oh,
Speaker 1: I got feedback and I didn't do it right, and
Speaker 1: I'm trying or you know, like or maybe I'm trying
Speaker 1: to stay in the same position because i know that
Speaker 1: I'm doing it really well and I'm too scared to
Speaker 1: try something else. We're going to take a short break
Speaker 1: for some ads. Now back to the show. But like,
Speaker 1: I hear your mindset going into it as a learning mindset,
Speaker 1: and then I think you were able to get so
Speaker 1: much more from it.
Speaker 2: I love that observation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that we give up too much power
Speaker 3: sometimes to our jobs and to our employers and it
Speaker 3: should be a mutually beneficial relationship. And for me, and
Speaker 3: we've touched on the fact that I'm a confident person,
Speaker 3: but I do walk in with confidence that if it's
Speaker 3: not working out, and let's say I do lose my job,
Speaker 3: then I can find another job, no harm, no foul.
Speaker 3: But if I'm not my like authentic self and speaking
Speaker 3: my mind and going after problems and trying to learn
Speaker 3: and doing all these things, like, that's not fulfilling to me.
Speaker 3: And on the flip side, to walk in scared that
Speaker 3: I'm going to lose my job is just not a
Speaker 3: great dynamic. And so I think my approach to employment
Speaker 3: has always been how many jobs in the world are they? Like?
Speaker 3: Can I just get a like this is going to
Speaker 3: be a good experience, and I'm going to learn from it,
Speaker 3: And I always want to make sure that I'm in
Speaker 3: a position where I'm learning.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Starting your own company is definitely being in a position
Speaker 1: of constantly learning, but you do become very attached to it,
Speaker 1: like it is your vision. So you went through this,
Speaker 1: you felt prepared for it. How did the specific product
Speaker 1: lane come to you in that moment?
Speaker 2: You mean, how did I land on Argent? Yeah? Like,
Speaker 2: how did you land on Argent?
Speaker 3: I have always been frustrated by the fact that nobody
Speaker 3: is catering to the professional woman from a war droming perspective.
Speaker 3: My mom will tell you, like we went to a
Speaker 3: number of places for my first job interview to just
Speaker 3: find a suit, and how much I would complain about
Speaker 3: it because there was just it was such an afterthought
Speaker 3: for these legacy brands, and you know, I was just
Speaker 3: always sort of sour about it, and I think about
Speaker 3: what I wore across all my experiences, and I was
Speaker 3: never deriving confidence from it. It was always such a
Speaker 3: time suck to find anything, let alone something I felt
Speaker 3: decent in. And I worked across different industries that all
Speaker 3: call for different dress codes, like it was a whole thing,
Speaker 3: you know. And then when I was at Cisco, I
Speaker 3: read a study that showed that women are judge based
Speaker 3: on appearance, and I quantified the impact of what you
Speaker 3: wear on your bottom.
Speaker 2: Line of your lifetime and that was all it took.
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, you know what, I have thought
Speaker 3: about this long enough. In a decade, no one has
Speaker 3: innovated the category from a product perspective, and I see
Speaker 3: an opportunity to do that. I'm at the forefront of
Speaker 3: the casualization of the workforce. Women in tech are really
Speaker 3: being left to their own devices because there is no
Speaker 3: model of dress in tech. No one's setting the dress
Speaker 3: code outside of a few men. I just saw a
Speaker 3: real opportunity to create a work where authority that was
Speaker 3: a resource to these powerhouse women across you know, every industry,
Speaker 3: every city, and really it's a time constrained, ambitious woman
Speaker 3: that doesn't really want to be thinking about it, but
Speaker 3: she does want to wear something.
Speaker 2: She goes grat in.
Speaker 3: Everyone does because we derive confidence from what we wear.
Speaker 3: So I think I saw an opportunity from a product perspective,
Speaker 3: and then I'm sure as obvious now on the mission side,
Speaker 3: I had a front receipt to a lot of misogyny
Speaker 3: throughout my childhood into my career, and I'm very, very
Speaker 3: much I mean, someone who just loves women and feels
Speaker 3: that they deserve equal opportunities. And I saw how that
Speaker 3: conversation was being handled and how everyone was sort of
Speaker 3: checking boxes, but it didn't feel like anything was really
Speaker 3: changing the narrative and impacting in a meaningful way. And
Speaker 3: this was in twenty fifteen, and it almost got to
Speaker 3: the point where we were talking about it so much
Speaker 3: that people assumed that change had happened, but it wasn't happening.
Speaker 3: And I'd like remember talking to people about this idea
Speaker 3: for Argent in twenty fifteen, and they're like, Oh, We're
Speaker 3: about to have our first female president. How could you
Speaker 3: say that so many people, But to me, the conversation
Speaker 3: just wasn't nuanced in any capacity. And I saw an
Speaker 3: opportunity to do that through a brand, because I think
Speaker 3: that brands are the most powerful thing in the world
Speaker 3: and can have very real impact with their platforms.
Speaker 2: And the gap that I touched on.
Speaker 3: Earlier that I saw was that no one was catering
Speaker 3: to the professional woman from a product perspective, but also
Speaker 3: no one was capturing those women through their visuals. No
Speaker 3: one was celebrating the women that I was seeing at
Speaker 3: Cisco day and day out, and like telling their story
Speaker 3: in a way that encourages women to just pursue whatever
Speaker 3: it is that they want to and gave them representation
Speaker 3: and allowed them to see themselves in all walks of life.
Speaker 3: And so I wanted to do that through the brand
Speaker 3: and really serve as a resource.
Speaker 1: As you're again, you're making me think about, like reflecting
Speaker 1: so much in my own life, like the choices that
Speaker 1: I've made. I always wanted to be a costume designer.
Speaker 1: What I almost went to art school.
Speaker 2: Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel very strongly about how that you put
Speaker 1: on your armor, like you are reflecting the way you
Speaker 1: want to feel, the confidence you want to bring into
Speaker 1: a room. And so I've always I kind of fluctuated
Speaker 1: in the way that I've dressed, like either like very
Speaker 1: wild or then I was like, now I'm a law student,
Speaker 1: this is corporate me.
Speaker 2: And so I don't think I ever told this.
Speaker 1: You know how people like notoriously take the bar in
Speaker 1: their pajamas, like people like that, Oh, this is like
Speaker 1: a thing. They're like, oh god, I've been like studying
Speaker 1: so hard I can't even get dressed. Yeah, well, I
Speaker 1: did the exact opposite that. I had to look like
Speaker 1: a lawyer, and so I took my only suit and
Speaker 1: I wore it to every single exam I took in
Speaker 1: law school, and I wore it to every single day
Speaker 1: of the bar.
Speaker 2: Head to toe.
Speaker 1: I wore a suit, I wore a shirt, I wore heels,
Speaker 1: I wore jewelry that I would have to take off
Speaker 1: so we didn't bang on the desk when I wrote
Speaker 1: in because I had to dress like it. And then
Speaker 1: you know, I moved to Washington and I worked in
Speaker 1: military policy and so I had like an all black
Speaker 1: suit look for that, probably a lot of Ann Taylor.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's just generally people who were wearing
Speaker 1: a Washington. And then as soon as I left the
Speaker 1: military policy job, I was like, well, now I'll dress
Speaker 1: the way I want, although not really so Washington, but
Speaker 1: there was no middle ground for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh that's so fascinating. Also, let's not write off
Speaker 3: costume designing. Thank you so much. Yeah, just saying I
Speaker 3: still kind of dress.
Speaker 2: Like I'm in costume.
Speaker 3: I think that though, is like when I talk about
Speaker 3: the study and like awareness of the fact that you're
Speaker 3: being judge based on appearance. I think that it's good
Speaker 3: to be aware that there is very much gender inequity
Speaker 3: in our society. But I also think we've tried to
Speaker 3: flip that to focusing on giving women confidence and what
Speaker 3: they're wearing and giving them options that make them feel
Speaker 3: like their best self. Yeah, and like their authentic self.
Speaker 3: And it also serves as armor. So it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: when you step into and this was me at Cisco,
Speaker 3: a room full of men and you're the only woman.
Speaker 3: You want to feel the part you want to look,
Speaker 3: the part you want to feel. Your best, you know,
Speaker 3: and I can dissect also of you know, things that
Speaker 3: happen and why it matters around that. But I think
Speaker 3: that it is so important that we find clothes that
Speaker 3: make us feel our best into and we can use
Speaker 3: that to our advantage, especially in like a corporate setting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you want to feel your best.
Speaker 1: But I think the era of the black suit, you know,
Speaker 1: when I was doing it, when I had to as
Speaker 1: a lobbyist and a military policy, I didn't feel like
Speaker 1: I could bring any of myself into it. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so I think I was downplaying my own perspective and experiences,
Speaker 1: like I was only there as a vessel to.
Speaker 2: Communicate on behalf of our clients.
Speaker 1: I think if I had had something where I could
Speaker 1: feel like I was dressing more aligned with myself, then
Speaker 1: maybe I would have had more confidence to bring my
Speaker 1: own perspective into it as well.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: And by the way, my kids wear uniforms and Fridays
Speaker 1: are dressed down days, and my four year old was
Speaker 1: a costume every single Friday.
Speaker 2: Is that your spirited one? She's my spirited Yeah?
Speaker 3: Are okay? Our daughter is daughters? Yeah, it would be
Speaker 3: of course. Yeah, best mines on four two, and she
Speaker 3: is a lot of costumes, a lot of costumes.
Speaker 1: Love.
Speaker 2: I encourage. I think it's great.
Speaker 1: Like, if this is how you feel you want to
Speaker 1: express yourself today, it's Unicorn day, it's mermaid. I actually
Speaker 1: today she went to school in a wolf costume.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's perfect. Okay, So you entered a new category
Speaker 1: of apparel. This is not I mean, even though you
Speaker 1: had sort of entrepreneurship, a lot of tactical experience, leadership experience,
Speaker 1: apparel was new. And I feel like, maybe I'm maybe
Speaker 1: generalizing here, but I feel like most people that go
Speaker 1: into a pail actually don't come from a business background.
Speaker 2: They come from like a design background. That's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So how do you think you had unique challenges?
Speaker 1: And then how could you have solved them with your background?
Speaker 1: How did you solve them?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: So I think that business is sometimes like underappreciated or undervalued,
Speaker 3: and it's important in every business, business and business. But uh,
Speaker 3: but I do think that my skill set could be
Speaker 3: applied to a lot of different categories. Like that's just
Speaker 3: the sheer nature of business and that excites me. That's
Speaker 3: why I was drawn to it. When it comes to apparel,
Speaker 3: it is a very challenging category. And I had seen
Speaker 3: a lot of people actually start businesses focused on women's work,
Speaker 3: were they all looked the same. No one was innovating,
Speaker 3: and it felt as if oftentimes the consumer was then
Speaker 3: designing the product, so it would be the equivalent of
Speaker 3: me then designing the product, which is I would not
Speaker 3: be here if I had done it that way, because nobody's.
Speaker 2: Going to want to wear what I'm designing.
Speaker 3: Similar to our careers and like you know how we've
Speaker 3: taken a not so linear path, but like everything's built
Speaker 3: up to this point, there are so many talented men
Speaker 3: and women who are pursuing creative careers focused on product design,
Speaker 3: and you know, they are creative aspects of any business
Speaker 3: that go hand in hand with that skill set. And
Speaker 3: so I knew out of the gates that I was
Speaker 3: going to need to find creative counterpart, and that's always
Speaker 3: been represented with an argent Our creative director now she
Speaker 3: joined us three years ago, is unbelievably talented. I mean,
Speaker 3: she's twenty plus years in design, She's worked across a
Speaker 3: number of incredible companies, and she's designing the product. She's
Speaker 3: picking the color palette, et cetera. And I'm the consumer
Speaker 3: and it's very much collaborative, but I'm pretty hands off,
Speaker 3: like she's the expert. And I think you have to
Speaker 3: recognize what you know and what your blind spots are.
Speaker 3: And I was very aware that that was pretty critical
Speaker 3: to building a product led company. Can you talk us through?
Speaker 1: I mean, what every entrepreneur says is that the things
Speaker 1: they don't know once they start end up kind of
Speaker 1: defining the first couple of years.
Speaker 2: Okay, let me set up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, come here.
Speaker 1: Can you talk us through a couple of those Like,
Speaker 1: you know, you decided to produce in the US, which
Speaker 1: was not happening a ton there. You had to change
Speaker 1: creative directors at different points, like can you talk us
Speaker 1: through some of those pieces where you thought, Okay, I
Speaker 1: might be.
Speaker 2: Out of my death here.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that it's incredibly important to be able
Speaker 3: to have micro failures. And that's true of any career.
Speaker 3: It's especially true when you're building something because there's no
Speaker 3: way that you're going to come out perfectly in every
Speaker 3: you know, like in every aspect of what you're building.
Speaker 3: And there's a lot of personal growth and development that
Speaker 3: comes along with this. You have to when you make
Speaker 3: the decision to take the leap and start a company,
Speaker 3: you have to have conviction and vision in terms of
Speaker 3: what the end goal is. And I tell people, if
Speaker 3: you have that, then you will make it. That's the
Speaker 3: only way you'll make it. If you do not have that,
Speaker 3: do not start. Because how naive I felt going into
Speaker 3: this journey was pretty startling. You just there are so
Speaker 3: many things that you have to figure out and get
Speaker 3: through and it takes very thick skin. And with that said,
Speaker 3: back to the failure piece, like, it's just part of
Speaker 3: the journey that you make mistakes and that are correcting
Speaker 3: from those.
Speaker 1: Were you able to have that perspective when you were
Speaker 1: in it, similar to the way you went into learning
Speaker 1: experiences like it's okay, I'm learning, Like were you able
Speaker 1: to say, okay, this has been a microom mistake where
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, it's over.
Speaker 3: I never thought it was over, and I'll never think
Speaker 3: it's I think that's what makes me a good entrepreneur.
Speaker 3: There's a learning that's baked into that which we can
Speaker 3: come back to as well. But for me, Argent will
Speaker 3: succeed because I believe that women deserve it, So I
Speaker 3: will do everything in my power to make that a reality,
Speaker 3: and I have overcome things like COVID. Right, that was
Speaker 3: an intentional choice of survival because the opposite was the
Speaker 3: more obvious choice, which would be to just shutter the
Speaker 3: company because we went to zero dollar days overnight.
Speaker 2: I want to go back to COVID.
Speaker 1: Can you because I have more questions about COVID, can
Speaker 1: you give us more examples of like sort of micro failures.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so some of mine. I think that starting thing
Speaker 3: is really lonely, and it's become way less lonely for me.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've been doing this for nine years, but
Speaker 3: because it is lonely, you are a bit vulnerable.
Speaker 2: And when you're hiring, and this.
Speaker 3: Was mine, but you're I would project my enthusiasm and
Speaker 3: my passion onto people that I was interviewing to the
Speaker 3: point that I would convince myself that they were perfect
Speaker 3: for the role, and they I wasn't letting them convince
Speaker 3: me of that, And I allowed people into the company
Speaker 3: or agencies into the company that were not the right fit.
Speaker 2: But it was because I was so desperate.
Speaker 3: For you know, rounding out a skill like the skills
Speaker 3: that I did not have, because I was aware of,
Speaker 3: like some of the things that I didn't know or
Speaker 3: that I needed, So I think that was one for me.
Speaker 3: It was rushing hiring decisions, and now we've gotten much
Speaker 3: better at that higher slow fire fast fire fast is
Speaker 3: probably another one that I have had to learn over time.
Speaker 3: I used to give people the benefit of the doubt
Speaker 3: or try and justify X y Z. But I've really
Speaker 3: that muscle to recognize when someone's not working out, and
Speaker 3: if they're not working out, you've just got to follow
Speaker 3: your gut and do it quickly.
Speaker 1: That's a topic we actually have not gotten into on
Speaker 1: this show, so I'm really curious to talk a little
Speaker 1: bit more about it. How long do you give them now?
Speaker 1: What do the conversations look like.
Speaker 3: It's really challenging and has been one of the hardest
Speaker 3: parts of business, the personal piece, especially as a woman.
Speaker 3: What I've noticed is that the second you give negative
Speaker 3: feedback to an agency, or you fire an agency, or
Speaker 3: you fire a person, it pivots from professional to personal.
Speaker 3: And it's not a personal conversation. Anyone that we hire.
Speaker 3: We have a business need for hiring that person, and
Speaker 3: I want them to succeed If it doesn't work out.
Speaker 3: I think two things are true. One, we should be
Speaker 3: able to give very I should be able to give
Speaker 3: very direct feedback and criticism on work or whatever and
Speaker 3: not be judged personally for it.
Speaker 2: That's more true.
Speaker 3: On the age of side. I've had a lot of
Speaker 3: experiences where you know, older men will become very I
Speaker 3: don't even know what word to you. They're too emotionally
Speaker 3: to lead. Men are too emotional to lead.
Speaker 2: Unprofessional. Yeah, too emotional to lead. It's wild.
Speaker 3: It is actually very true. So I've dealt with that,
Speaker 3: and you just develop thick skin. Like I just said,
Speaker 3: now see it for what it is. And then in
Speaker 3: terms of firing fast, Argent is an extension of me,
Speaker 3: and I'm the most tuned in on the cultural piece.
Speaker 3: So we are very much trying to hire people that
Speaker 3: are a fit for our culture. We are collaborative, we
Speaker 3: are supportive, there's no room for politics. And just as
Speaker 3: a sound bite, like they're the first ten hires at
Speaker 3: any startup, shape your culture.
Speaker 2: It is so important to what you're building. It is everything.
Speaker 2: And then once someone starts, I'll start seeing things I
Speaker 2: think I'm you know, it's either they're over delivering or
Speaker 2: there might be some flags. It comes in at different points.
Speaker 2: But the second I mean the second you realize that
Speaker 2: it's not right, like you have the second you have
Speaker 2: that thought, it's not going to change. It's only reinforced.
Speaker 2: And so that's what I'm saying, Like from early days,
Speaker 2: I would see those flags for years and not do
Speaker 2: anything about it. And now I'll see I'll see a
Speaker 2: flag and it's done the next day. Because the thing
Speaker 2: that happens is that it sits with you, and time
Speaker 2: is your most valuable resource. And I need to ensure
Speaker 2: that not only for myself, but for the entire team,
Speaker 2: that we're not distracted by someone that's not a fit,
Speaker 2: and that we're not having to carry that load and
Speaker 2: we're not getting caught up in the stresses that come
Speaker 2: along with that. And so we'll make those decisions and
Speaker 2: have those conversations very quickly.
Speaker 3: It's not something I'm an expert at. I would say
Speaker 3: I think that we've done both ways. We've tried to
Speaker 3: coach people, you know, and get them to a place
Speaker 3: where it could work. We've never had success with that,
Speaker 3: and so I think think that we have had people
Speaker 3: come in that have areas of opportunity that work out
Speaker 3: long term. But I don't think we've ever had the
Speaker 3: sense of, oh, it's not the right fit. I think
Speaker 3: it's just that, oh, there's some development that can happen here,
Speaker 3: and there's some learning thing can happen here. When it's
Speaker 3: not the right fit. It's a pretty cut and dry conversation,
Speaker 3: and that's where it can really go off the deep
Speaker 3: end personally, and I've experienced that a number of times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting. It's really interesting to hear you
Speaker 1: talk through this. You know, the majority of my professional
Speaker 1: career has been working in politics, and there's this sense
Speaker 1: that I think because we are brought to the work
Speaker 1: emotionally or not emotionally, but values based, it's a sort
Speaker 1: of an extension. We're working on an extension of what
Speaker 1: we believe in that it's so personal that there's also
Speaker 1: the sense that you can't fire anybody. And I actually
Speaker 1: think a big part of the dysfunction of politics is
Speaker 1: that you can't fire people because it would be perceived
Speaker 1: as rejecting them personally. And so I actually have like
Speaker 1: no insight into how to run a corporate environment. And
Speaker 1: my sister and I were sort of like coming up
Speaker 1: at the same time, like She was very corporate and
Speaker 1: I was working in politics, and she'd be like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I had to fire someone again today, And I.
Speaker 2: Was like, you can't.
Speaker 4: Did they steal? Like did they murder your first board?
Speaker 4: Like I thought that was the bar of firing somebody.
Speaker 4: I just I had no sense of it. So I
Speaker 4: see how it can actually be much healthier.
Speaker 3: It's necessary, and the best leaders, your sister is one
Speaker 3: of them. The best leaders can do it, and they'll
Speaker 3: do it quickly, and they'll do it unemotionally. It's pretty
Speaker 3: cut and dry, and we just have to shield ourselves
Speaker 3: as much as possible emotionally because I can recognize when
Speaker 3: it's coming from someone's own baggage and it's not about me.
Speaker 3: They're just sort of projecting onto me. But it's such
Speaker 3: a bummer because you know, it's disappointing. Like I said,
Speaker 3: we're hiring people that I like personally, and I've had
Speaker 3: to let people go that I like a lot personally
Speaker 3: but aren't the right fit for what we're building. And ultimately,
Speaker 3: I'm a steward of Argent, and like, I have to
Speaker 3: protect the company. That's my job and people have to
Speaker 3: recognize that as well. And I have to protect the
Speaker 3: people on the team that are delivering. I want to
Speaker 3: also mention I think that it works out for both parties.
Speaker 3: So I've seen people that do react really negatively, but
Speaker 3: then they land on their feet elsewhere and somewhere that
Speaker 3: is the right fit. So I don't think we are
Speaker 3: for everyone. Like I don't think we're perfect either, and
Speaker 3: I have learned from every instance where it hasn't worked
Speaker 3: out because I'm definitely not perfect. I think we hold
Speaker 3: women to such an impossibly high standard. With all of
Speaker 3: that said, you just can't hold something like keep someone
Speaker 3: that's not working, and you want to make sure that
Speaker 3: you have perspective that where they land afterwards is going
Speaker 3: to be a better fit for them.
Speaker 2: You know, it always works out. It totally okay.
Speaker 1: Well, this leads me into the team that you've built
Speaker 1: as a whole, because that now also includes it's your husband.
Speaker 2: Have you considered firing him? Never?
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I'm like, please never leave us. I
Speaker 3: was actually complimenting him this morning. We are opposites. We
Speaker 3: took a personality test. This was something we took at
Speaker 3: Cisco that I loved so much that we now do
Speaker 3: it at Argent every year. And it's so good for
Speaker 3: team building because we learned how we all like tick
Speaker 3: and operate and communicate. And he and I took it
Speaker 3: and we're like exact opposites, which I think I knew,
Speaker 3: but to see it in black and white like that,
Speaker 3: it was like pretty fun. But the beauty of it
Speaker 3: is that I trust him completely and in our personal lives,
Speaker 3: like he I know that he's going to take care
Speaker 3: of things and do things and I don't even have
Speaker 3: to think about it, and he doesn't stress about things
Speaker 3: that I stress about, and vice versa. So like we're
Speaker 3: just a really good balance. And for him to step
Speaker 3: in professionally, that didn't happen until twenty nineteen. I launched
Speaker 3: Argent in twenty sixteen. I started working at twenty fifteen.
Speaker 3: I was looking for a mark. I was looking for
Speaker 3: someone that has that CMO skill set, and I was
Speaker 3: living with that person, but I was I was not
Speaker 3: using Dave on the business because I needed an outlet,
Speaker 3: and he was my outlet those first few years. And
Speaker 3: so we got to this point where I'd been looking
Speaker 3: for this role for a long time. I think it's
Speaker 3: actually one of the hardest roles to fill, and he
Speaker 3: slowly started taking you just slowly started like dipping his
Speaker 3: toe and doing some of the work, and it was
Speaker 3: obvious that he was the perfect fit.
Speaker 2: I mean, he has the perfect background.
Speaker 3: He has worked across electronic arts, Apple, Adidas, you know,
Speaker 3: just McDonald's. He gets such a cool resume, such a
Speaker 3: cool skill set, and yeah, he started in twenty nineteen
Speaker 3: and it's been a wild ride because two kids have
Speaker 3: also come, you know, along with that.
Speaker 2: But it's it's perfect.
Speaker 1: Do you guys have boundaries for keeping the professional and personal?
Speaker 1: No boundaries perfect right now?
Speaker 3: If you need to know anything about mindfulness and like
Speaker 3: taking care of yourself and boundaries, I'm not your gal.
Speaker 2: Okay, great, well I'm not either. I would even not
Speaker 2: questions to ask. I think, I do think and people
Speaker 2: talk about this.
Speaker 3: It becomes really fluid when you start something because it
Speaker 3: is fun. Like what I'm doing is really fun. So stressful,
Speaker 3: there's so many times we're like, oh, like you know,
Speaker 3: you think about quitting, like that's just the name of
Speaker 3: the game. But at the end of the day, like
Speaker 3: I'm always thinking about urgent and that's the beautiful thing
Speaker 3: about it. But I have flexibility that I can go
Speaker 3: pick my kids up at four thirty or even I
Speaker 3: can go, you know, do something random on a Friday.
Speaker 3: So it's it works for us. It's all very blended.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a short break for some ads.
Speaker 1: Now back to the show. When I looked at you know,
Speaker 1: I look at your product of like suiting, work where office,
Speaker 1: and I look at the timeline of starting in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: I think I intellectually knew there must have been like
Speaker 1: kind of a dip around COVID. But then I went
Speaker 1: back to listen to interviews that you've done, and you
Speaker 1: did a big podcast in twenty twenty, right before the
Speaker 1: pandemic hit, and the punchline, like the kind of launching
Speaker 1: pad of that podcast was we've never really you look
Speaker 1: so uncomfortable right now. You've never really marketed, and we're
Speaker 1: about to do a big marketing push.
Speaker 2: And I felt it.
Speaker 1: I was like, if she only knows what's coming, Oh yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so talk us through this.
Speaker 3: So I am a slow and methodical person, and I
Speaker 3: think building a company in apparel takes about seven years
Speaker 3: to strike it all right. So it's like you're iterating
Speaker 3: on product, photography, visuals, team, all the things and we
Speaker 3: were on a more accelerated path, but I was always
Speaker 3: a little bit slower to market. We got to twenty
Speaker 3: twenty and it was like it was a time where
Speaker 3: everyone was like gang bust. I don't know if you
Speaker 3: remember this, but early twenty twenty and he was doing
Speaker 3: great the economy of striving like it was a good time.
Speaker 2: Honestly. I had a third baby in February of twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: I don't remember much.
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, May twenty twenty, but anyway, we were just
Speaker 3: all of our metrics they were excellent, like we were
Speaker 3: ready and we were going. And then eight and a
Speaker 3: half months pregnant, March thirteenth, and the world shuts down
Speaker 3: and everyone was writing emails like in two weeks we'll reopen,
Speaker 3: and Dave and I had to have some really hard
Speaker 3: conversations because I was thinking I was going on maternity
Speaker 3: when I'm going to have like a proper break because
Speaker 3: we had a nice team in place, and instead it
Speaker 3: was like what's about to happen and how aggressive do
Speaker 3: we want to be with it?
Speaker 2: And it ranged from.
Speaker 3: Do we quit to do we furlough the team, layoff
Speaker 3: some team members, get out of all of our leases,
Speaker 3: we had four stores at the time in an office,
Speaker 3: and we went with that option, with the choice of
Speaker 3: trying to survive and just gut it out, and it
Speaker 3: ended up really working on our favor because we made
Speaker 3: that choice when no one else saw what was coming,
Speaker 3: and so it gave us a two week head start
Speaker 3: and we got out of our leases, which allowed us
Speaker 3: to survive. Then had a baby, which was actually a
Speaker 3: nice escape because I had had like I had a
Speaker 3: proper leave, but I mean a lot to unpack there
Speaker 3: as well, because it was just the two of us
Speaker 3: and two kids and just no help.
Speaker 1: I'm also feeling super stressed out for you that a
Speaker 1: newborn baby felt like a nice stressless release for you,
Speaker 1: Like I'm concerned for your mental health care.
Speaker 2: That's the right take a look.
Speaker 3: But it gave me, like some joy at a time
Speaker 3: that was so tough and brutal. And I got a
Speaker 3: text from an investor I'll never forget there's an article
Speaker 3: from CNN that said work where is dead forever and
Speaker 3: she said we should talk. And I just didn't throw
Speaker 3: on my phone, but I certainly could have. I was
Speaker 3: so angry because it was so inconsiderate, like it lacked
Speaker 3: such empathy for something that I've been building for such
Speaker 3: a long time that I'd put my blood, sweat and
Speaker 3: tears into Fast forward to now that person's like my
Speaker 3: best friend and reposting and sharing and anyway love her.
Speaker 3: But it was stuff like that where it was like,
Speaker 3: I'm so focused and locked in right now on surviving
Speaker 3: and how we're going to get there. We ended up
Speaker 3: running a campaign in October of twenty twenty that made
Speaker 3: our year in one day, the super Majority campaign, the
Speaker 3: Hot Pigsuits. It went viral, billions of impressions. At the
Speaker 3: height of the pandemic, we sold out of a hot pigsuit.
Speaker 3: It was bananas. And behind the scenes, I'm walking around
Speaker 3: with like a sleeping baby, you know, on my front,
Speaker 3: and Dave's playing with a toddler somewhere, and it's like
Speaker 3: the two of us really running this like massive campaign,
Speaker 3: and that gave us, I think, some pep in our step,
Speaker 3: and you know, fast forward to twenty twenty one. We
Speaker 3: started seeing the return to certain industries, so we kind
Speaker 3: of dressed women that were working at the White House throughout.
Speaker 3: We then see, you know, some lawyers around that start
Speaker 3: to return, and we just started seeing parts of the
Speaker 3: country start to return. And so the beauty of COVID
Speaker 3: is it it allowed us to step back and really
Speaker 3: really restrategize on everything, and take all of our key
Speaker 3: early learnings and apply them all at the same time
Speaker 3: and just come out swinging. So in the fall of
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, I bet the farm on the return
Speaker 3: to the category delayed consumerism. Women are going back to
Speaker 3: the office. They haven't shopped for this in a long time.
Speaker 3: Bodies have changed. The list is long, and that proved
Speaker 3: to be true. And on the heels of that, I've then,
Speaker 3: you know, raised some money and the rest is really
Speaker 3: I mean, now we're just scaling and we've been trying
Speaker 3: to catch up with demand and we're finally in a
Speaker 3: position where I feel like we're slightly ahead of it.
Speaker 3: And it's been so fun and it's been the opposite
Speaker 3: experience of what COVID has and we're executing in a
Speaker 3: different place and the competitive landscapes wiped out. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of upside in COVID for us, but I'm sure
Speaker 3: there's still a lot of trauma for me to unpackage.
Speaker 2: I'n't dealt with, you know, someday will.
Speaker 1: All of us that time at home with the kids. Yes, really,
Speaker 1: so where do you think you're going?
Speaker 3: So the vision of Argent is to provide tools and
Speaker 3: resources to women to allow them to optimally navigate their career,
Speaker 3: to remove barriers for women. And I think that for us,
Speaker 3: our goal is to be the work where authority but
Speaker 3: also to really own the office because nobody does. And
Speaker 3: it's the thing that excites me the most in the
Speaker 3: world learning women's stories, connecting them, bringing men into the
Speaker 3: conversation in a meaningful and significant way. And so I
Speaker 3: think for me, I want Argent to be synonymous with
Speaker 3: working women, I mean just incredible women and reframing how
Speaker 3: we think about what society looks like and having women
Speaker 3: represented at all levels, and also reshaping how we talk
Speaker 3: about moms because that's the hardest job in the world,
Speaker 3: and so how do we establish some form of flexility
Speaker 3: that supports them in those dark early days you know
Speaker 3: that can be really demanding, and then also allows them
Speaker 3: to put mom on their resume and then go back
Speaker 3: into the workforce and speak with authority to the skill
Speaker 3: set that they've taken from being a mom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel very strongly about that.
Speaker 1: What is one thing that you look back and at
Speaker 1: the time you thought, oh my god, this is the
Speaker 1: worst thing that's ever happened to me. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to make it out of this, and now in retrospect,
Speaker 1: you see it as having really positioned you to where
Speaker 1: you are now.
Speaker 2: I mean, COVID.
Speaker 3: I hate to answer with COVID since we just talked
Speaker 3: about it, but in what scenario was I thinking, Oh wow?
Speaker 3: And then there'll be that day where nobody goes to
Speaker 3: an office, So you're like constantly assessing risk and you've
Speaker 3: got your risk mitigation plan, whether it's formal or informal.
Speaker 3: But my job is to ensure that no decision is fatal,
Speaker 3: and so I'm always like hedging our bets. And so
Speaker 3: I think the second it was obvious that women weren't
Speaker 3: going to be going back into offices and who knew
Speaker 3: when they'd be returning was a.
Speaker 2: Pretty like a fuck moment.
Speaker 3: And then getting past that, I mean, just the entire
Speaker 3: that's a very stark example that does not happen for everyone,
Speaker 3: but that exists in everyone's journey. There are moments where
Speaker 3: you're like I just need to go watch Netflix, or
Speaker 3: like I just don't want to fight through this. This
Speaker 3: is so it's such a hard it's such a hard thing.
Speaker 2: It's impossible to articulate.
Speaker 3: And there are just those days or those weeks where
Speaker 3: everything seems to be no everything like you just everything's
Speaker 3: going against you, and you kind of learn how to
Speaker 3: like navigate that over time and just allow it to
Speaker 3: happen and just sort of take a back seat when
Speaker 3: you need to, and then when things are going your
Speaker 3: way to lean in all you know completely.
Speaker 2: But it really all.
Speaker 3: Goes back to the fact that Argent has to exist, period,
Speaker 3: and I'll do anything to make that happen. And because
Speaker 3: I feel that way, there's really like nothing that I'll
Speaker 3: allow to take us out of the game.
Speaker 2: I believe it. I believe it. Well, thank you, Sally,
Speaker 2: thanks for having me. This is so fun, so fun.
Speaker 1: Sally is still building her Powersuit empire and lives in
Speaker 1: New York with her family. Be sure to shop all
Speaker 1: the amazing Argent suits at argentwork dot com. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to this candid convo episode of she Pivots. Check
Speaker 1: back in weekly for more conversations with inspiring women. To
Speaker 1: learn more about our guests, follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: she Pivots. The podcast. Leave us a rating and comment
Speaker 1: if you enjoyed this episode to help others learn about it.
Speaker 1: Talk to you next week, Hey listeners, Before we close
Speaker 1: out this episode, I just wanted to pop in and
Speaker 1: let you know that, on top of having the pleasure
Speaker 1: of interviewing Sally, I'm also a proud investor in Argent.
Speaker 2: As I interview and meet people through.
Speaker 5: She Pivots, I've been lucky enough to get involved with
Speaker 5: a few of our guests and their brands, and Sally
Speaker 5: and Argent being one of them. I'm so proud that
Speaker 5: I'm able to invest in these incredible women own brands,
Speaker 5: and I'm excited to continue to do my small part
Speaker 5: in helping these women embrace their pivots. It's all for now,
Speaker 5: Talk to you next week. Special thanks to the She
Speaker 5: Pivots team, Executive producer Emily Edaveelosi, Associate producer and social
Speaker 5: media connoisseur Hannah Cousins, Research director Christine Dickinson, Events and
Speaker 5: logistics coordinator Madeline Sonovic, and audio editor and mixer Nina Pollock.
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