WEBVTT - Candid Convo: Sali Christeson: Outfitting Ambition 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:09.239 Welcome back to Sheep Pivots. I'm Sally Christisen. Welcome back 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:13.280 to Sheep Pivots. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. When 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:15.320 I was planning this season, I wanted to make sure 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.840 she pivots was a means for building connections. I said 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.759 during our season launch party that we're the generation of 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.720 women who build bridges and don't tear each other down. 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:27.520 And she pivots as a way to empower women to. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:30.600 Look inward, to find success for themselves and not buy 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:31.840 society standards. 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:33.280 And it's working. 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.880 We're seeing a substantial change in the way women think 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.280 about and talk about their lives and their careers. I'm 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.080 so excited to dig deeper into these pivotal moments through 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:45.920 these shorter, more conversational. 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:47.800 Candid conbos this season. Let's jump right in. 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:55.000 If you know me, you know I love an argent 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.480 suit and I'm so excited to have these. Sally Christison 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:01.800 on the show today to talk about how she's transforming 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:06.039 the businesswear industry for women. Her famous hot pink suit 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:10.200 has been worn by Kerrie Washington, Ashley Graham, Governor Gretchen Whitmar, 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.759 or Big Gretch, and so many more. She's truly defined 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.480 how women think about work wear, and she doesn't seem 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:21.160 to be slowing down. Stay tuned for another inspiring and 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:22.319 cantid conversation. 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.400 My name is Sally Christensen. I'm the founder and CEO 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:29.160 of Argent. 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:32.280 Okay, so we'll do we'll just do like a little 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.400 like just a quick background here. Where did you grow up? 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.520 What did you see yourself doing when you grew up? 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.360 Were you dancing around in suits? 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:41.800 Not at all. 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.440 I grew up in Hardyville, South Carolina, on a farm. 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.760 I spent my summers in Turkey. So my dad's Turkish 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.120 and my mom is very Southern, and that combination shaped 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:55.520 a lot of who I am. Entrepreneurial, That's what I am. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.760 With that said, I think that my upbringing shaped a 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.640 lot of what I'm doing now because I grew up 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.120 in a place that I didn't feel like I had 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.200 a lot of modeling or options in terms of what 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.000 career could look like because I was in the Southeast, 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.560 which is really banking, law and healthcare. 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:16.280 Well, when you say that that your your dad being 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:20.160 Turkish and your mom being very Southern shaped you like, 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:21.840 what traits of theirs? 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:23.919 Was it their relationship. Was it each of their own 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:25.200 traits that shaped. 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:28.480 You well, I think having the perspective that I did, 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.720 like from traveling to Turkey quite frequently. I just it's 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:37.760 a completely different culture. It's much more familial. My dad's 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:42.160 one of ten siblings. I have one bajillion cousins. And 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.519 we would spend our summers in Kumba and we'd all 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.239 stay in this one apartment building. Kumba is a small 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.880 beach town outside of Istanbul, and we would spend our 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.560 days going from one floor to the other to the 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.560 other and seeing different aunts and uncles, seeing my grandmother, 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:02.079 seeing like our great aunt, and it was just so special, 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:07.160 and it gave me such an appreciation for Islam, for 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.119 the Middle East, just for you know, all of these 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.160 things that I grew up, you know, that was half 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.480 of who I am. And I also grew up speaking Turkish, 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.800 so it just really is a huge part of me. 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:22.240 And then the South is the South. I'm really grateful 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.680 to have had that because I think it gives me 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.080 a deep understanding of what's happening in our country right now. 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.760 But it was a really special place. Like I spent 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.480 most of my days outdoors. I would go jump on 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.360 a horse and ride bareback, like been doing very dangerous things, 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:40.640 very adventurous things, but as a really spirited child. But 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:42.960 I think that like a lot of people don't really 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.440 get out of South Carolina. So the fact that I 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:48.840 got the option to do that with these trips to 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:50.400 Turkey really gave me perspective. 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.040 Yeah, a spirited child, I have one of those. I 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.440 know that two of those. I know how that goes. 0:03:57.200 --> 0:03:59.760 That's so interesting. First of all, one of ten siblings 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.440 my mind. But I mean Argent is about the work woman, 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.600 which is so interesting. What I loved that broadsheet, Like, 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:08.560 I love the way the broadsheet was framed by the 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:10.120 way like you are honing in on that, and I'm 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:11.240 going to get back to that later. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:14.080 Was your mom a professional? Did she wear suits? 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.360 No? My mom was, and this was pretty consistent with 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.640 all of my friends. She was a mom and she 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.760 was the best, and she very much shaped who I am. 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.120 She's she right now works the farm, like that's her 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.000 dream as to drive a tractor and to be on 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:35.320 her own. And she's very tough, and I think that 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.240 she inspired a lot of who I am. But no, 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.599 I think that the modeling that I saw from a 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:47.240 work perspective came more from television, my dad, my parents 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:52.840 raising me without really putting gender norms on me, and 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.279 so I used to my dad's a he's an entrepreneur. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:58.359 He had a rug shop that he which is pretty 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.240 typical that he ran out of our house when I 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.160 was really young and then had a shop in Hilton Head, 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.720 South Carolina, and I used to go with him, and 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:09.640 it was there that I remember being like, all I 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:11.599 want is like a stapler and a desk, like the 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.760 Internet didn't even exist, but I was like, I just 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.159 want to work, like this is this speaks to me. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:19.920 Do you remember who it was on TV that modeled 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.640 for you, Like I feel like maybe Murphy Brown, Katie Kuric, 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:23.599 Katie Kuric. 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:28.400 But I also watched like the NBA is as you know, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.360 it's like one of my favorite things on the planet. 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:33.680 But also watching Men and Women. I think I think 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.479 both were modeling for me. But I've grew up, you know, 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.000 at the age of five watching Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:43.719 et Cetera, Rosio O'Donnell. But I was really just consuming 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.039 a lot of magazines, reading a lot of books, all 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:49.520 kinds of things. There's no one person that really jumps out. 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:51.720 But it was really like men and women that I 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:54.440 was you know, it's pretty typical of kids our age. 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:56.560 I feel, yeah, okay, I was thinking a lot about 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.880 this in preparing for this conversation with you. You all 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:04.680 please describe your father as an entrepreneur, which like when 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:06.520 does someone get the title of entrepreneur? 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:08.919 Like what about it? Did you give him the title? 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:11.919 Like what makes someone an entrepreneur versus a small business 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.520 owner versus like opening a lot of business or one business? 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.320 Like why do you describe him that way? So I 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.440 actually think my mom will hate this. But my dad 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:25.080 grew up with no running water. They would share clothes 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.960 to be able to go to school, and he started 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.400 selling water in the Turkish bazaars at the age of five, 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:36.000 and he was constantly having to hustle to make money 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.240 for his family in order for them to put food 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:42.120 on the table. And through doing that, he learned so 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:46.040 many languages. I mean, he is such a lovely, special 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.360 human being, and he learned so much about people and 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:53.919 different cultures. And I was just such an ambitious person 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:58.280 by necessity, to be honest, But he is the third 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:03.159 in the family, and there's a lot of pressure on men, 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:08.160 especially you know, antiquated, outdated gender and expectations. But there 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.600 was a lot of pressure on him to provide for 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.560 the family. And so then, you know, he worked his 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.600 entire life and then he worked in the bazaars and 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:21.600 Turkey selling rugs eventually, and that's where he met my 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:23.800 mom and they I mean. 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.840 That's the whole story in and of itself. It's fantastic. 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.360 But then he moved back with her eventually and opened 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.320 his own rugshop. But I mean, just the sheer nature 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:36.120 of what he's always done is like, define whatever it 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.800 is that he's going to be selling, and he owns 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.240 the entire experience and process of that and the good 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:42.280 and the bad that comes with that. 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:44.200 Okay, but now I want to hear about how your 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:44.680 parent's met. 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.920 So my mom she comes from a more privileged background, 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.440 so I'll say that, so their backgrounds are very, very. 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.119 Different, which is also shaped who I am. 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:58.880 She went abroad after graduating from college with a group 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:03.800 of friends and they did this six month trek through Europe. 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.200 They went into Russia and they were in Turkey for 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.840 a short stint and while they were there, their tour guide, 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:14.120 who was Turkish, was bringing them through Istanbul, and my 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.600 dad saw my mom at a post office and asked 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.360 her to go out with him, and she politely declined. 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.080 And then later that day they were in the bazaar 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.000 and he saw her again and asked her out, and 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:29.440 she'd declined again, and then he convinced the tour guide 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:31.880 to ask her best friend so they could do a 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.640 double date to make her more comfortable. They went out 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:39.600 that night. He took her rowing his big grower, and 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:44.679 then they finished. My mom and her group finished their 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.480 trip and she ended up moving back to Turkey in 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.199 with my dad, which she used to be the story 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.640 I told us if it's normal, and now that I'm 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:56.440 an adult, I'm like, oh, that's wild. Wild, I'm like, yeah, totally. 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.600 Then she just moved in with him and stayed there 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:01.360 for a year to the wait where my very traditional 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.440 grandfather was writing letters to Turkey threatening my dad to 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.320 like send his daughter home, and then they ended up 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.839 moving back to Asheville, North Carolina, which is where my parents. 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:16.200 My grandparents were in retirement and eventually got married. But 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.880 they're still married forty something plus years. 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:20.600 I could do the Math forty eight. 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.360 But the best part of the story is actually that 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.760 the other couple is also married living in Ashville, North Carolina. 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:30.400 No, that is wild. Yeah. 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:34.800 Wow, the matches that happen in a Turkish bazaar are 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.040 like better than mumble, Like, this is unbelievable. 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:39.040 Yeah. 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.520 So that's really what I hope to take away of 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:43.840 this episode to be is for everyone to rush to 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.800 Turkey to the bazaar that's looking for a relationship. 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:48.120 It's there. 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.400 Do you think that that's sort of like pick up 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:56.160 and move, like pick up and go story, really, like 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.480 you really internalize that, like as a normal thing to do, 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.480 because when you graduated college, you just picked up and 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.000 moved to Chicago like you didn't know anyone, you didn't 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:04.680 have a job. 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:09.200 Yes, I'm probably inspired by my parents for sure. I 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.800 think that they did a really great job raising me. 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:14.560 I just I love them very much. 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.720 I have an older brother, and they gave me the 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:21.320 confidence to just pursue whatever felt right. 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:23.640 And I think my entire upbringing. 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:25.640 As much as I appreciate and loved being raised in 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:27.640 the Southeast, it was obviously that's not really where I 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.360 was meant to be. Long Like in my adulthood, and 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:34.120 so after college, I knew I wanted a big city, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.679 and everyone kept saying New York was way too big, 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:38.520 which I would have loved New York, you know, but 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.280 I was like, Okay, what's like the next next option? 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.720 So I just chose Chicago and moved there sight unseen. 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.560 Were you prepared for the wind? Yes, you knew it 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.920 was coming. Nope, I was prepared for whatever was going 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.960 to come my way. I figured it out. How did 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:56.880 you figure it? Like? Did you get off the plane 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:01.000 and went where I'd scout? Did so. 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:07.200 Through I studied abroad my senior year in college, and 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.280 I met kids from all over the country, and when 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.680 we came back, we would do these reunions. And one 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.600 of those reunions took place in the University of Oregon 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.920 and one of my best friends from studying abroad was 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.280 his best friend from growing up is now my husband. 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.040 But I met him during one of those trips. Was 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.800 the last week of college, Dave. Dave moved to Chicago. 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.800 So Dave, who I met one time, was in Chicago 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.800 and I was like, can I come check out apartments? 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.800 And like, will you just show me around? He was 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:40.679 definitely not interested. In a relationship at that point and 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.040 had a lot of growth in front of him. But 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.240 that was like my only real connection to the city. 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.719 And I found an apartment, went home, packed up my car, 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.960 drove to the city, and then just started networking. 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.160 Wait, okay, this is a new element of this. 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.240 Was there an underlying there that you were like, well, 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:02.760 let me just see what happens if I'm in the 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:04.640 same city as Dave or not, even like it was 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:05.520 totally platonic. 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:07.160 I think it was more. 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:10.520 I think I was more focused on my career at 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:14.200 that point, and that the happy coincidence of where things 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:17.400 have gone with Dave is, you know, just the upside 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:18.320 of that choice. 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.440 So did it take a while before you guys started years? 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:23.559 Years before? Did you say friends the whole time? Are 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:25.680 you just again at a Turkish bazaar to run? 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.280 We both went to Turkey, but we we a lot 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:34.440 of my friend group was formed through Dave's friend group 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.800 as well, So like a friend of theirs growing up 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:38.640 had gone to Northwestern, so we became friends with a 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:39.880 lot of kids from Northwestern. 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.040 I was just really social at. 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:43.920 That stage, and we didn't have phones, we didn't use 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:45.560 technology in the same way, so we were really like 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:49.400 forced to get out and just be social. Yeah, and 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:51.360 those were some of the best years of my life 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.880 because you're not close enough to family, so your friends 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.679 become your family and you have to really I mean, 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.800 there's so much learning your early twenties. And I actually 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.480 sat around after college for a long time waiting for 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:07.760 someone who would live with me, and I was so 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.280 annoyed because everyone would like fake commit and then just 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.280 not really not really like do it. And so I 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:15.280 finally just did it on my own because I was 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.000 so annoyed by that. I have a very real bias 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.439 for action. And it was the best decision I ever made. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:21.760 Its firt of set me on the past that I 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.200 this journey and we've moved a lot though since then, 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:26.199 but it just sort of gave me the confidence, I think, 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.680 to just take big risks and put myself out there and. 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:30.559 It all works out. 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:32.559 I feel like you just put language to something that 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:34.480 I felt my entire life and never known how to 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.960 articulate a bias for action. Oh yeah, did you come 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:39.800 up with that term yourself? I really feel that. 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:40.600 I sure didn't. 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.200 There was my manager at Cisco used that to describe 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:46.880 me once and I was like, what does it mean? 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:53.719 So so then I figured out what it meant and 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:55.240 I was like, oh, yeah that's me. 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:59.200 So yeah, that's incredible. I love that came from a manager. 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.760 I feel like I got like the negative version of 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:08.040 that in performance reviews. That was like you're always jumping 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.560 ahead of everyone, Like why don't you let the process 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:12.120 play out? 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:13.000 Isn't that? 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.760 So like female specific though, I feel like we get 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:20.760 the worst professional like guidance sometimes stay in your lane, 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:25.560 do less, you know, just be perfect cool, great. 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:29.280 Totally, so okay, so you got you were always thinking 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.440 about yourself, like you wanted the stapler, the desk, you 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.800 wanted the job, like I love thinking about Like young Sally, 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.040 You're like, I'm here to network and I'm also here 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:38.960 to be a corporate boss. 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:40.120 You know what's funny. 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:42.080 I was actually in Chicago to have a good time. 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:46.600 So undergrad, I was the worst student on the planet. 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:50.960 I've really just banked on my like I'm smart enough. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:52.960 I like didn't apply myself. So I was like i'll 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:54.880 get I'll be fine, I'll get like b's and c's 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:55.760 and we'll call it a day. 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.320 But I was very social, and I. 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:00.760 Actually think that that was is one of the best 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.800 decisions I have made. Granted, I'll think, oh, I wish 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.440 I'd spent more time in the library, because that's not 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.200 what I love. Like, I love learning. I'm a total introvert, 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.840 you know. I've really accepted who I am more. But 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.360 in those days, it was a great exercise of like 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.160 human learning, and that I think is like sixty percent 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.160 of success, if not more, is understanding people and how 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:27.440 people operate, and like understanding like your self and how 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.520 to interact with different people and just sort of navigating 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.680 and like the networking aspect of things and the life 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.600 aspect of things, and understanding people's motivations, et cetera. So 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.680 I actually think that was really a huge takeaway from undergrad, 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.000 which I then applied to Chicago because my plan was 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:44.480 to go back to grad school and I knew that, 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.440 so I just wanted a job that I was learning 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.920 from because I am always wanting to just be learning. 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:54.000 That's like a that's a trend that you'll see throughout 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.000 all my career choices. But in Chicago, I spent more 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.960 time being social as well. And then once I got 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.480 back into grad school, top of the class, I feel like. 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.240 I am learning so much about myself in this conversation. 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:08.400 I have like. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.560 These ways that you are illuminating. 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.320 And reframing choices that I made, like are making me 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:15.160 reflect on this. 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.200 Like. Similarly, I did not do like I was terrible 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:18.680 in college. 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:23.080 I was just partying and I but I've never looked 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.800 upon that favorably, like I don't tend to look back 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:27.600 on my own choices with a lot of regret. Like 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:29.400 I think that regret is sort of like a wasted 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.720 agree a wasted feeling, because I think you learn something 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:34.760 out of all of it. The one thing I do 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.080 kind of regret is really how little I applied myself 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:38.600 in college. 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.400 I really missed a lot of opportunity. 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:43.600 I don't think I was doing any like particularly sophisticated 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:45.840 thinking about navigating interpersonal relationships. 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:47.640 I think I was just partying all of the time. 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.160 But then similarly, I went to law school and I 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.760 was like a different person, Like it turned on for me. 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.400 I was applied in the first time and similarly graduated 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:57.600 in the top of my class because I was a 0:16:57.680 --> 0:16:58.280 different person. 0:16:58.680 --> 0:16:58.920 Yep. 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:01.400 But I didn't know I was going to go to 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.560 grad school. I thought I wasn't smart because I had 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.800 done so badly in college. So what about you gave 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.280 you that confidence to think like, oh, I'll just turn 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:10.159 it on to grad school. 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:12.439 I don't know if it was intentional, like, yeah, I'm 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:16.440 benefiting from hindsight and these stories. But I have always 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.640 my parents will say, I've always been confident. And it's 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.840 similar to what you said about regret, Like I think 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:25.920 there's certain things where we own these emotions and we 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.960 deserve to be like kind to ourselves. We deserve to 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.159 be confident, and it's a learned trait for some people, 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.919 you know, but we waste we waste a lot of 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:41.160 energy on guilt, on shame, on all sorts of things. 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.199 And so it's I don't know, probably like I have 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.880 a natural tendency toward like to be confident, but it's 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.359 something that I wish for everyone because it does shape 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:53.600 kind of your life experience, you know, But I don't. 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:55.560 I just have had it. I don't know. I don't 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:55.960 know why. 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.159 Okay, so you didn't just go to graduate school. You 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.280 went to get your MBA. That's really serious. That's a 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:04.560 really serious question. 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:08.600 In law school's not Yeah, but I thought I was 0:18:08.640 --> 0:18:09.439 going to be a lawyer. 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:11.320 Oh yeah, And I thought I had to go to 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.639 law school because I was going to be a lawyer. Sure, 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:15.440 Like NBA is just like, well, I think I'm good 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:18.080 at business, and I want to be really good at business. 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:19.199 You know what it is for me. 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.560 So the way that I operate is I really need context. 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.199 So if you just come at me with like a 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.199 story and it's a piece of something, I struggle a 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.639 little bit if I don't have like full context. So 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:34.919 knowing that about myself, I wanted to get some experience 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.480 after undergrad and I studied business and undergrad as well, 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:40.240 I wanted some applied experience and I wanted to take 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:41.760 that back into getting an. 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.000 MBA because I needed a better. 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.679 Understanding of like the major functions of business and in 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:49.560 your twenties, you know nothing like I think back to 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:51.840 some of the questions I asked in interviews as if 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:53.600 I was smart, and I'm like, oh, I sounded just 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.879 so young, you know. And so then I had that 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:59.680 experience and as part of that, I lived abroad in 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:01.840 German for a year, which was the draw to this 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.679 particular program. It's the International MBA Program at the University 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.160 of South Carolina, and so I got to live in Germany, 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:09.360 and then I worked at Daimler as part of that 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.120 and came back got hired at Cisco Systems and they 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.919 have a leadership rotational program. And again it was like 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.720 me wanting to have applied experience on the heels of 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:25.040 academic experience. All of these choices were intentional to try 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.080 and de risk starting my own company, and so I 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.679 spent about ten years just trying to understand business as 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.359 best I could and then took the lead. 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.200 So you were always thinking there would be a company 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:37.960