WEBVTT - #493 Jason Flom with Ronnie Miller 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:06.320 On February eleventh, twenty ten, a baby girl was born 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:10.440 to unwed parents, Lourie Johnson and Ronnie Miller in Rockford, Illinois, 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:15.760 but her parents' relationship gradually became contentious, which only worsened 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:20.680 during the custody battle. During a heated exchange on July twelfth, 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:25.840 twenty fifteen, Ronnie threatened to sue for full custody. A 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:28.640 few days later, he was accused of sexually assaulting their 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:33.400 daughter in a video statement made with Child Protective Services. 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:35.839 The daughter appeared to have been coached into making the 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.560 accusation on the record, an accusation that she repeatedly recanted 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.519 and never again affirmed. Yet the state was able to 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:48.120 find a nurse who claimed that the daughter's medical history 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:52.199 was suspicious for sexual abuse, and that was enough for 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:56.000 a jury to send Ronnie away for twenty long years. 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:10.640 This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to ronful conviction, where 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:13.440 we have a case where it appears that false accusations 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.040 were used to weaponize our courts and child Protective services 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:21.800 to settle a custody battle and ultimately victimized the child 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.440 whom they purported to protect, as it seems that she 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:29.720 was used against her own will to incarcerate her father, 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:35.600 Ronnie Miller, who's now calling in from an Illinois correctional facility. Ronnie, 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.960 I'm sorry you're here, but I'm really happy to be 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.240 able to share your story and I appreciate you being here. 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:42.920 Welcome, Thank you very much. 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:46.760 And joining him his post conviction attorney, Leonard Goodman. 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:47.680 Yes, thank you. 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.840 And later we'll hear from Ronnie's sister, Deborah, But first 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.360 let's hear about what Ronnie's life was like before all 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:55.680 of this. 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.480 I grew up in Rockford, Illinois. Not a good place 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.480 growing up, but it became a teenager. 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:02.600 Who moved out. 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.320 I dropped out of school, I got my ended up 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.559 getting my dad, and then kind of just fell into 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:11.720 factory work. Up until this, I actually had a pretty 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.520 decent pharmaceutical packaging company. I worked in the warehouse, you know, 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.520 I'd been there four years. All the other factories that 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.440 I worked in Rockford were pretty much shitholes, horrid conditions 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:25.560 and a little bit of money. So this company that 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.120 I actually made it into that the work was clean. 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:31.959 You're in a pharmaceutical company, The people were friendly, nice, 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.280 you had room for success. It was a pretty good 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:36.720 place to work at on my way to becoming management. 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:42.440 This was from two thousand eleven until twenty fifteen. 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.640 During which time Ronnie was trying to copat his daughter 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:46.120 with a woman named Laurie Johnson. 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:49.760 I had known Laurie off and on. We had our 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.280 daughter in twenty tens, but in the beginning of the 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.480 relationship it wasn't nothing serious. It was just having fun 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.920 until she wanted me to move into her place, which 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.320 I did. We had been doing good for i'd say 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.160 about a whole year before she found out she was pregnant, 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.880 and at that time she already had a child before, 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:16.200 so I would say she was questionable about having another. 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.920 For me, this would have been my first child, which, yeah, 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:21.679 I was stoked that I was going to be a dad. 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:25.720 I made every doctor's appointment that it was scheduled. I 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.400 remember at one time I found out that my daughter 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.640 she could hear me, so I started reading books and 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:36.120 talking and playing music and everything, but a lot of reading. 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.320 So you know, during the birth, she came out screaming. 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:41.640 She screamed, and the nurses got her in her hands 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.960 and everything, and I remember saying to her, it's okay, 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:49.000 baby girl. Here's daddy, and she immediately knew my voice. 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.960 Even the nurse commented was like, oh she knows you. 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:53.360 You know something I'll never forget. 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:57.080 So while fatherhood seemed to suit Ronnie, he and Laurie 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:58.440 weren't a natural fit. 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:01.720 We made it like the first when I found out 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.720 she was cheating on me with a another man, and 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.040 we pretty much broke things off. I was out of 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:11.240 the house, but it was a very toxic relationship to 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.040 where I would move out and she would convince me 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.720 to come back and all this, oh, let's do it 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.640 for the babies. I'd fall for it every time I 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.480 wanted my daughter to see us together. My parents were 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.080 divorced and I didn't want that for her, So yeah, 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.360 of course I kept coming back, even though the way 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:30.720 she treated me was like shit. But when I wasn't 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.479 with her, she would hold the child from me. No 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:35.680 you can't see her, No you can't talk to her, 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:38.800 this type of stuff, to where she would use the 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:40.760 kid as leverage. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.720 My understanding is that if he was not allowed to 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:45.720 see her, he would get a court order so that 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.520 the mom's obstruction of his visitation would be put to 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:49.760 a stop by the judge. 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.520 And it appeared that this was a pattern for miss 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:55.000 Johnson that had been playing out with the father of 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.599 her fifteen year old son, Tristan oh Man. 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.760 If you talk to Wayne Gilberto, he'll tell you the 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.479 exact same thing. And she had me believing this man 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:07.600 was a heroin addict, the just the worst person imaginable. 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.280 She was selling to me, and of course I believed her, 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.120 But later on I found out this dude was going 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.920 to work wanting to see his kid, wanted to be 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:19.760 in his kid's life, but because he wouldn't submit to her, 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.040 she did the exact same thing with him, use the 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:24.040 kid as leverage. 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.359 If you look at the family court records, you'll see 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.359 similar accusations made against that father or that other child. 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:35.320 But that child had a history of some mental illness 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.280 and was doing things that were frightening. 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.520 He threatened to commit suicide, spent like two weeks in 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.800 the side corps getting on this medication. She told me, okay, 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:52.040 he was at one point accused by his father that 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:56.080 he was touching his stepdaughter on like a weekend visit 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.919 over there, and she kept it real hush with me, 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.400 so I didn't know the exact detailed. I just knew 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.720 that he wasn't allowed to go over there because of 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.960 these allegations. Okay, and his dad called him a pervert, 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:13.400 and then she went to DCFF trying to say that 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:18.080 Wayne was abusing Driston by accusing him of these things 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:19.279 that were not true. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:23.320 It appears that mister Gilberto was interested in protecting his stepdaughters, 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.920 but miss Johnson took that as an opportunity to weaponize 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.839 the Illinois Department of Child and Family Services, or DCFS 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.640 to restrict his access to their son. Meanwhile, Ronnie and 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:38.000 his sister Deborah began fearing for GM safety. 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:41.640 Yeah, so I used to watch GM every day, So 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.279 there was things that GM would say to me about 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.760 things happening in the household with her brother. There was 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.080 one instance where she told me she woke up with 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.560 her brother standing over her and she was afraid. And 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.240 I told her mom about that and she told me, no, 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.880 she's just lying. She's making things up. And I become 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.640 concerned and I start telling Ronnie, like some of the 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:05.919 things that GM has been saying to me. 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.640 That's why I was concerned about my daughter living over there. 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:13.240 And I confronted Maurie about this. She said oh, no, Tristan, 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:15.920 he wouldn't do that. I said, well, why wouldn't my 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:18.920 daughter be lying about this? I said, I don't feel safe, 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.200 especially him coming out of a psych ward, being doped 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.160 up on all this medication, and then all of a sudden, 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:27.960 couple weeks later, you take him off his medication and 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.200 now he's acting all fucking weird and shit. 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.239 Then later on we come to find out in court 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:39.240 record Tristan has sexually abused his dad's girlfriend's daughters. But 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.760 none of this was ever brought to court. 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:44.920 Which seems like some really important context, almost as important 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:46.000 as what happened next. 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.240 So I told her I was going to take her 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.040 back to court for full custody because I'm concerned about 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:52.680 what's going on here, and I'm going to let the 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:56.000 courts know about his psych ward visits, about all this 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.320 stuff that you say he's not doing but obviously is. 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.360 So yeah, yeah, I threatened to take her back to 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.800 court for full custody. And then I believe that was 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:09.880 on like a Sunday, and here it is Wednesday. Now 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.440 I'm being accused of sexually molesting my daughter. 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.920 So it appears that July twelve, twenty fifteen, was the 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.120 Sunday of the argument, and then Ms Johnson called DCFS. 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:22.600 We don't know because we weren't there, but maybe the 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.040 mom said the daughter had some itchiness and she asked 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.320 her about it and she said, oh, daddy's weird. 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:28.160 He touches me. 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:30.920 And that was the initial report that was made, and 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.680 that report was enough to get in order of protection. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.439 The way I found out was through my sister, because 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.600 my sister watched my daughter. They showed up at my 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:42.120 sister's house on Friday. 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:44.760 She came by to pay me for the week before 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.400 because heard my brother split paying me, and she made 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.880 GM wait outside like Laurie was telling me all these things. 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.440 And GM was looking through the screen door and she's like, yeah, yeah, 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.600 I got to tell you something. So I come outside 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:00.600 and she runs to the back of my yard and 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:02.760 I have like a trampoline and everything because I have kids, 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.520 and she's like, yeah, I got to tell you something. 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.480 Daddy touches me. And then she runs off and goes 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:11.040 and jumps on the trampoline like it was nothing, no 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.040 big deal. I go to my brother because obviously, if 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.160 a child is being hurt, I want to protect that child. 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:22.240 GM was examined by their pediatrician, doctor Rhodes, who found 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:26.040 no cause for concern. Meanwhile, Aunt Debbie called the family together. 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.280 I instantly called my mom, my brother, and I'm like, look, 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.800 this is what's going on. So then Ronnie called Laurie 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:34.760 and got Laurie to come over to my mom's house. 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.760 And she's telling everybody it's too late. DCFS is involved. 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.520 I've taken her to the doctor. GM. She comes in 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.440 the house and she wants to sit with her dad like. 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:48.199 She actually cried because she wanted to stay with all 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.400 of us. When Laurie told her it's time to go. 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:52.079 You tell them what you have to tell them, and 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.079 let's go. And she was sitting on Ronnie's lap crying 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:58.920 and screaming as Laurie took her to leave. That's actually 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:15.240 the last time Ronnie seen her when GM was sitting 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:18.200 on my brother's lap. And I'm sitting there talking to 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:21.120 her and I'm explaining to her like GM, I'm an adult. 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.559 I'm here to protect you. If there's anything going on. 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.319 You can share this with Aunt Debbie and I'll make 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:28.520 sure you know I keep you safe. That's what adults 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:30.840 are supposed to do. And then She looked at me 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:33.760 and she goes, so, if that was happening to Abby, 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.320 which is my daughter, they're only a few years apart. 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:38.760 She's like, would you do the same thing? And I 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.240 told her, I said, Jim, if any child is ever 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:44.160 being hurt, I will always keep them safe. And I 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:46.480 kept telling her, this is very important that you tell 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.720 me the truth. And then she changed her whole story, 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.560 saying it was a guy at her mom's house, which 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:53.720 was confusing to us. 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.679 MS Johnson had another boyfriend at the time, or perhaps 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:02.200 GM meant her older half brother Tristan. Either way, two 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.720 weeks later, on August fourth, twenty fifteen, MS Johnson made 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.240 an appointment with DCFS to get the allegation on video. 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:16.480 My understanding is that the child had recanted to the 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.880 mom and was telling the mom it never happened, and 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.120 that was part of what prompted her to put the 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:24.440 child in front of the video camera to try to 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:28.720 document these stories against Ronnie and put them on film. Literally, 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.360 with the mom practically sitting next to her. 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:33.880 In this video interview, she's not supposed to know where 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:34.840 she's going. 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.400 Know what was going to be asked, the child starts 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.400 making accusations against her dad before she's even asked any 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.960 question by the interviewer, suggesting that she had been coached. 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.520 Many of the things that she said during the interview 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.240 are conceded to be not true and fantastical. She said 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:54.679 that the police came and arrested my dad, but he 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.360 got away, who was conceded that no police had come. 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.520 She said that her dad had a cast in her 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.600 description of the abuse. He never had a cast on 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.439 his arm during this period. She said that there was 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.840 a dog involved. So all these things were conceded to 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:12.880 be not true. 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:18.160 Everything that video is total lies, except the one that 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.800 they want to believe is that I sexually abused my child. 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.680 So yes, she had recanted before she was put in 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.319 front of the video camera and after to a therapist, 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.680 to the mom, and to the trial prosecutors, saying it's 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:35.880 not true. I was manipulated into saying that. The prosecution 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.319 then went out and hired a nurse practitioner who had 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.959 taken a course in sexual abuse and somebody that they 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.880 had used in the past as a sexual abuse expert, 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.880 and this woman examined the child, who was at this 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:54.000 time was five years old, found nothing abnormal and the 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.040 prosecution said, well, the child is now saying it never happened, 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.240 so we can't go forward with this case unless the 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.439 expert will say that there is physical evidence of abuse. 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.720 So no charges were filed, but the order of protection 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:06.600 remained in place. 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.760 The mom went to extraordinary lengths to keep the daughter 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:13.960 away not only from her father, but from his whole family. 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.720 It was almost as if the mom was afraid that 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.360 people that clearly posed no threat to the child if 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.080 they were with her, that the story that the mom 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.000 had fabricated would be exposed. 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.040 And by October and November, Ronnie and his family began 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.600 winning at family court, and it appeared that they would 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.600 all be allowed supervised visitation at a DCFS facility called 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:36.240 Safe Harbor. 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.559 The judge said, hey, there's no evidence here. I gotta 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:43.400 let them see the kid. Here's Laurie calling up DCFS 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.200 and letting them know that I'm winning in family court 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:48.880 that they need to do something about it. 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:53.640 I have all those records where DCFS contacted Shannon. Krueger 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:55.800 was like, and it's all in the notes, which is 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.240 crazy to me. This is what we need you to say. 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.240 Can you say this? And she said yes, I can 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.679 say that. Then they told her to contact the prosecutor 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.839 and let them know that she would state that in court. 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:12.760 So the expert then examined the child's medical history and 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.800 found that there were some urinary tract infections and some 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:20.640 genital redness and said, yes, I can say conclusively that 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.040 is highly suspicious for sexual abuse in a five year 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.040 old girl. I think she was four at the time 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:27.280 that she had this redness. 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:31.640 Previously, the child's preediatrician had attributed these issues to potty training, 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.040 a new bath soap, or a new laundry detergent. Yet 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.280 Krueger's opinion led to Ronnie's arrest in early December. He 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.880 was bonded out his family. Court wins were rolled back, 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.320 but at least his family was granted access to GM. 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.560 Their first visit was right after the holidays for my 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:53.920 whole family. I'm talking like eight adults and like twelve 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.600 nieces and nephews. They wanted to give her all of 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.400 her presents for Christmas and all that. So they have 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.640 a thing over at my sister's house. 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.200 All the girls in the family, my daughter and then 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.760 my brother's two daughters and her. They're all pretty close 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.880 in age, so just seeing them together, playing with their dolls, 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.360 being able to sit with my mom, having all her 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:13.320 grandkids together. 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.800 Now, mind you, I can't be around at all. I'm 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.920 at a whole nother house with another witness that says 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.400 I was there the whole time, after they dropped her 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.440 back off, after she got all of her presents, all 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.400 this stuff. Now, this is Lorie. This ain't my daughter. 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:32.320 This is Laurie calling the police saying that my daughter 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.920 told her that I talked to her on the phone. 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:36.320 A total fabrication. 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.480 After checking the call logs and speaking with Ronnie's family, 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.840 the police confirmed that the accusation was false, and then 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.360 after the second visitation came another false accusation. 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.920 The mom calls Protective Services again and said Ronnie's violating it. 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:55.040 He's using these grandparent visitations to see his daughter and 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.280 to sexually abuse her at school. 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.320 The DCFS they pulled my daughter in question her for 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:02.680 two hours. They were trying to see if she could 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:04.680 verify if Ronnie was at the visit. 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:06.440 That was later conceded to be false. 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:10.120 Everyone agreed he never violated the order protection, but it 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.160 was enough to end these grandparent visitations. 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:17.200 Since these two new accusations were provably false. The state 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.880 only moved forward with the first one with the support 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:21.880 of Nurse Krueger. 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:26.000 And Ronnie had a conversation with his lawyer prior to 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.440 trial where he said, I've seen these reports that they're 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:31.400 going to call an expert to say that my daughter 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.360 was abused. Shouldn't we have our own expert, And his 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:38.200 lawyer responded, no, we don't because there's no physical evidence. 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:39.280 We don't need an expert. 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:43.080 Jafer admits she never called or looked around for any 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.480 expert testimony. If she had, she would have found out 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:53.680 that the allegations that Kruger made were totally medically mumbo jumbo. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:58.080 Shannon Krueger's opinion was about to go unchallenged a trial, 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.560 along with Miss Johnson's credit with her well documented history 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:04.080 of weaponizing family court. 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.040 This lawyer didn't pull the family court file, so she 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.199 wouldn't have known about the past history, but she did 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:14.919 know about the December January incident and the false accusation, 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.800 and the lawyer just was unable to figure out how 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:20.960 to get that in at trial. 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.840 The judge in my case, Judge McGraw, he wouldn't even 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.600 allow my witnesses to testify to the second allegation denied 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:29.399 it on grounds of relevance. 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:33.000 The recantation to the therapist was also denied on grounds 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:37.520 of confidentiality, even though it was clearly exculpatory, as were 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.919 the recantations to the trial prosecutors. 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.320 They were trying to prefer for trial. That's when she 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.280 told them that once twice, that my dad didn't do 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:50.520 this to me. Also, they admit during those interviews with 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.760 her that she seemed to cheer up when she heard 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.879 my name, was excited to see me and was like, 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.400 oh is my daddy here? Like is that somebody afraid 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.680 to somebody? No witness recans to you twice, she recants 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.359 to a therapist, She recants to her mother on thirty 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.320 times that she says. So she's trying to tell these 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.720 people this shit didn't happen, but none of them are 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:12.680 believe in her. 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.240 Or maybe they did, considering the affidavits they signed about 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.280 the recantations, as well as the offer they made to 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.040 Ronnie prior to trial. 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.280 Yeah, they offered me probation, no jail time. What type 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.480 of guilty man is not going to take a deal 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.320 for no jail time? In probation. The only person that 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.320 is not going to take that deal is the innocent 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:33.600 person that believed in the justice system and has the 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.720 truth behind their side. I turned that opportunity down. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.639 Even though he's facing twenty years. He said, no, I 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.560 can't because it requires me to say that I harmed 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.000 my daughter and I never would have harmed my daughter. 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.160 Because he refused this deal, Ronnie was taken to trial 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:53.880 in twenty seventeen, where curiously, first the state called GM's pediatrician, 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:56.960 doctor Rhodes, to the stand and asked about the history 0:18:57.000 --> 0:18:57.840 of discomfort. 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:02.000 Rhodes she admits, Hey, this could be something simple as 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:07.320 hygiene or an allergic reaction to laundry soap or something 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.880 like that, and they told the jury to totally disregard 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:11.920 their witness. 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.960 Then they revited Rhodes with nurse Krueger. 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.040 Krueger has asked the same questions that the Rhodes testify to, 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:23.200 and she would not admit that could be caused by 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:27.800 something simple as hygiene issues or allergic reaction from bubble 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.840 bass or laundry detergent. 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.639 And then GM was brought to the stand. 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.080 This is a matter of Illinois law. They had to 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:36.840 put her on the stand in order to put in 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:40.399 the videotape of her prior statement, but the child was 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.560 no longer accusing her father of a crime. They were 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.760 very concerned, the prosecutors, because it had been more than 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.480 two years since she had last seen her dad. 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.760 Oh yes, I was very emotional and just see in 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:57.040 her face. It was just like it was crazy. And 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:00.639 as soon as my daughter walked in the you should 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.720 stopped the trial. And basically told the judge was that, hey, 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:07.480 we're afraid that she's going to run up and just 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:09.040 give him a hug, and that's not going to look 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:10.240 good in front of the jury. 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.480 The judge's suggestion, and the prosecutors carried this out, is 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.640 to create sort of a human shield so that when 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:17.639 the child was brought to the stands, she would not 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.520 be able to see her father and so she would 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:22.680 not be tempted to go and run and hug him. 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:27.159 So a human shield obstructed GM's view of her father. 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:31.040 And GM did say that her father touched her cuckoo 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:33.960 with his finger, but it was said in a vague 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:39.560 and non sexual context, and GM didn't recall any details 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.679 of a sexual nature. So the exchange went, quote, do 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.720 you remember if he touched you on the inside or 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:49.119 the outside of your cuckoo? She replied, uh huh, you 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.639 don't remember, she said, no. Do you remember what it 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:56.280 felt like? She says, well, it hurt it a little bit, 0:20:56.600 --> 0:21:00.240 but not too much, like getting your ears pierced. Did 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.400 you ever see daddy's private she says, I don't remember. 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.359 Did daddy ever touch you anywhere else on your body 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.399 that he shouldn't have touched? She says no. Do you 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:13.119 miss your daddy? She answered yes. Do you love your daddy? 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.200 She said yes? And there they're back and forth ends 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:17.640 right there. That's an end quote. 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:22.680 The prosecution Hader preps and is very vague on whether 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:26.399