Speaker 1: You are listening to the Dan Patrick Show on Fox
Speaker 1: Sports Radio. It's our two on this Thursday, Dan and
Speaker 1: the Dannets Stan Patrick Show. Glad to have you on board,
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Speaker 1: us up all the above. Say a load of chat row.
Speaker 1: Just got a great gift from Tyler the moderator. Of course,
Speaker 1: moderates the chat Row folks keep keeps them honest. There.
Speaker 1: His mom made us mask, so we have our Pauli's
Speaker 1: got his on right now. We got protective mask that
Speaker 1: Tyler the Moderator's mom made for us. There's ones that
Speaker 1: have hot dogs on them. There's one that has coffee
Speaker 1: on it, and one that has a food truck on it.
Speaker 1: But Paul, you look good. It's a breezy, it's comfortable. Yes,
Speaker 1: it makes a statement. I love food of food trucks. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: thanks to his mother for keeping us safe. Eight seven
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Speaker 1: YouTube dot com. Slash to the Dan Patrick Show. We've
Speaker 1: been talking a lot of basketball. There is no basketball,
Speaker 1: but we've been talking a lot of basketball. And most
Speaker 1: of the basketball we've been talking about is over twenty
Speaker 1: years old, because we're still talking about Michael Jordan. Horace Grant,
Speaker 1: former Chicago ball he is going down swinging here. He
Speaker 1: was talking about a variety of things. When he was
Speaker 1: on ESPN one thousand the other day, talked about his
Speaker 1: lack of relationship with Michael Jordan. He went on a
Speaker 1: show bet online and had this to say about the
Speaker 1: famous story that Michael Jordan said to the flight attendant
Speaker 1: on the charter, do not let Horace have food. He
Speaker 1: didn't play well enough to get food after a game.
Speaker 1: Here is Horace Grant talking about that incident. Let me
Speaker 1: cliff something up about this food that he tried to
Speaker 1: take my food. I would have beat his ass. Guys,
Speaker 1: he can say to the stewards all he want to,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah he should eat, that's okay, go ahead, you
Speaker 1: know I'm gonna say what I have to say. But
Speaker 1: you come back and try to take my food, I
Speaker 1: would have whipped that. It wouldn't be no air Jordan's
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, it wouldn't have been those six Championships.
Speaker 1: I guarantee you that I believe it. I do. I
Speaker 1: believe the story, and I believe Horace would have gone
Speaker 1: back there and challenge Michael Jordan. I believe that. He
Speaker 1: also talked about Missus Horace Scramp. He won three titles
Speaker 1: with Michael before going to Orlando. He talked about the
Speaker 1: way Scottie Pippen was portrayed in the documentary. It was
Speaker 1: straight up. It was straight up, straight up, how they
Speaker 1: portrayed Scotty being a number two on that team, how
Speaker 1: he came out against Utah, could barely walk, setting screens,
Speaker 1: getting knocked on the floor, the whole nine yards and
Speaker 1: for them that documented did him well. Mj called himself
Speaker 1: is SMBs. If it one foot Scott to Pippen, it
Speaker 1: would be no six championship. I'm telling you right now, guys,
Speaker 1: that's Horace Grant. Now. Much was made of Michael Jordan
Speaker 1: saying that Horace Grant was the snitch for the Sam
Speaker 1: Smith book, The Jordan Rules. We reached out to Sam
Speaker 1: Smith yesterday and we wanted some clarification, whether it was
Speaker 1: on the record or off the record, whatever, he was
Speaker 1: comfortable about what role did Horace grant play in the
Speaker 1: Jordan rules. Was he the snitch? And you know, Fritzie
Speaker 1: emailed him and said, look, we'll haven't We'll keep it
Speaker 1: off the record, or you can put it on the
Speaker 1: record whatever you want to say. And Sam Smith sent
Speaker 1: an email that says the following. Let me put it
Speaker 1: this way. I've got a degree in business and worked
Speaker 1: for a Big eight accounting firm as a staff auditor.
Speaker 1: Then I got a master's in journalism, was an investigative
Speaker 1: reporter in Indiana and won national awards. City officials were
Speaker 1: charged as a result. Went to Washington doing investigative work
Speaker 1: and covering Congress and the White House. Then worked on
Speaker 1: the staff of a US Senator as his press secretary.
Speaker 1: Left DC in nineteen seventy nine, helped cover the nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty presidential campaign and national stories for the Chicago Tribune.
Speaker 1: Had written freelance sports in DC, then switched to sports
Speaker 1: at the Tribune in the early eighties. Was writing about
Speaker 1: the Bulls and the NBA from the time Jordan arrived.
Speaker 1: But then a relatively unsophisticated twenty two year old from
Speaker 1: rural Georgia who basically never was out of the state
Speaker 1: comes to Chicago in nineteen eighty seven. So now I
Speaker 1: finally am able to write a one hundred thousand word
Speaker 1: book that includes dozens of on the record interviews with
Speaker 1: principles and substantial details from before Horace Grant arrived in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Because Horace Grant is pointing me in the right direction,
Speaker 1: question Mark, so that's your story? Sam Smith basically saying,
Speaker 1: look at what I've done. And plus, you know, he
Speaker 1: was interviewing a lot of people for this book, and
Speaker 1: I had not heard that Horace Grant was the snitch.
Speaker 1: If you want to call him a snitch, you know
Speaker 1: used to be you were a source. Mike calls him
Speaker 1: a snitch. I was told that there were other people
Speaker 1: in the organization who were better sources here. I don't
Speaker 1: know what Horace Grant's role was. But Sam Smith is
Speaker 1: basically saying, everything I've accomplished in my career, I'm going
Speaker 1: to pen my book one hundred thousand words on Horace Grant,
Speaker 1: who was a twenty two year old. How much access
Speaker 1: would he have to Michael Jordan? What would he be
Speaker 1: able to tell me? Now? Horace Grant is friends with
Speaker 1: Sam Smith, and I think to this day still friends.
Speaker 1: But Just because you're twenty two years of age from
Speaker 1: rural Georgia and you're considered unsophisticated doesn't mean you can't
Speaker 1: be a source on this. Mike is calling him a snitch,
Speaker 1: and that's different. You know, Mike didn't call out anybody
Speaker 1: else who was talking to Sam Smith. I don't think
Speaker 1: and I'm going to guess that if you had an
Speaker 1: unnamed source, Horace Grant wouldn't have been the only unnamed source.
Speaker 1: But you know, once Michael gets it in his head
Speaker 1: that he's mad at you or there's a grudge, it's
Speaker 1: not leaving. I mean, he threw away a friendship with
Speaker 1: Charles Barkley. It's over because Charles had the audacity to
Speaker 1: critique him as an owner while giving Michael actual pertinent
Speaker 1: information from Charles perspective of you got yes men around you,
Speaker 1: you need to have somebody who tells you no or
Speaker 1: they disagree with you. That's I mean. Charles is say
Speaker 1: Charles doesn't have a mean bone in his body, but
Speaker 1: Michael hears it and says, hey, who are you to
Speaker 1: be criticizing me publicly? Well, Charles was asked about it,
Speaker 1: and he is an analyst, and he gave an honest
Speaker 1: opinion there now, should he have kept it in house
Speaker 1: as he said it to Michael privately? I don't know that,
Speaker 1: But that relationship's gone. The Isaiah Thomas situation. That relationship
Speaker 1: is gone. Scottie Pippen, that relationship feels like it's a
Speaker 1: little fragile right now. Jerry Krause, the late Jerry Krause,
Speaker 1: that relationship was never a relationship. If Michael didn't like you,
Speaker 1: didn't respect you, it was going to be hard for
Speaker 1: you to get back into his good graces. I don't
Speaker 1: know what else is in play with Horace Grant and
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan, but it feels like there's a lot of
Speaker 1: venom there, a lot of venom. Plus we've been talking
Speaker 1: about the greatness of Michael Jordan, and rightfully so I
Speaker 1: understand it. We tend to look at Michael and say,
Speaker 1: the great elixir is when you win titles. It doesn't
Speaker 1: matter what you do prior to winning the title. As
Speaker 1: long as you win the title, doesn't matter. How you act,
Speaker 1: how you treat people, who you are doesn't matter. The
Speaker 1: results bear everything, and that's what's happened. We look back
Speaker 1: and go, oh my god, that's how he that's how
Speaker 1: he was as a teammate. Yeah, hey, but day won.
Speaker 1: They won six titles. We would rather have that where
Speaker 1: you have this single mindedness that I have to win championships.
Speaker 1: Any So what if I'm a bad guy or not
Speaker 1: a good teammate or whatever. You know, I hold grudges.
Speaker 1: All right, we don't care. Hey you won, all right.
Speaker 1: We don't allow every athlete to have that latitude, but
Speaker 1: with Michael we do because there's a true fascination. Paul Pierce,
Speaker 1: former Boston Celtic Craig He's involved in this situation a
Speaker 1: little bit on the priphery because Paul Pierce was asked
Speaker 1: about who are his top five players all time? Bill
Speaker 1: Russell built up the organization of Boston to get way
Speaker 1: more aquied than we give him a lot of time
Speaker 1: as he gets left off the conversation. So I'm saying
Speaker 1: that Kareem look at the names that I said, Kareem Magic, Jordan,
Speaker 1: Tim Duck Bird. These guys are all top ten players
Speaker 1: who wouldn't either help build up their organization or continue
Speaker 1: the tradition. And the one from Lebron he went and
Speaker 1: put together a team in Miami. Okay, Now, Paul can
Speaker 1: have his opinions, but he hass to admit that he
Speaker 1: doesn't like Lebron. He has to admit that you may
Speaker 1: not want to put him in your top five. That's fine.
Speaker 1: You want to put Kobe in there or Shock in there.
Speaker 1: Kareem Like, that's fine, just if you're gonna say, hey,
Speaker 1: Kareem is in there. Kareem didn't build up the Laker organization, Paul,
Speaker 1: go back to Jerry West, Elgin, Baylor, Will Chamberlain. They
Speaker 1: helped build up the franchise. So let's you already are
Speaker 1: flawed with that. And you forget Lebron took a Cleveland
Speaker 1: team to the finals when he was twenty two years
Speaker 1: of age. They had nobody on the roster and Cleveland
Speaker 1: has no history of ever winning in basketball. That's when
Speaker 1: you build up a franchise. And yes, he did go
Speaker 1: to Miami to join Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade to
Speaker 1: counter your big three because you got Kevin Garnett and
Speaker 1: you got Ray Allen. Okay, he did exactly what the
Speaker 1: Celtics were able to do. They built a team, They
Speaker 1: brought in Kevin Garnett, they brought in Ray Allen. Lebron
Speaker 1: joined Dwayne Wade and joined Chris Bosh that cancels each
Speaker 1: other out there. Here's Kendrick Perkins ESPN NBA analyst talking
Speaker 1: about Paul Pierce, Lebron James and their relationship. Lebron James
Speaker 1: and Paul Piers hate each other. They don't speak to
Speaker 1: each other even now to day. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you remember, Cassie, we was doing hoopstreams in Houston against
Speaker 1: the Lakers. You remember Braun walked by us and says
Speaker 1: somebody before his pregame shot. He did not speak to Paul.
Speaker 1: That's the backstore. So I think Paul, this is kind
Speaker 1: of more personal towards Lebron than just say because it's
Speaker 1: no way in hill that you could say Lebron James
Speaker 1: is not top five. You may not have him as
Speaker 1: your goat, But to say that he's not top five,
Speaker 1: that's just crazy. And I love Paul, but that's that's
Speaker 1: kind of I think it's more personal than anything. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is. It's very personally. Paul may not like Lebron
Speaker 1: because Lebron closed out the Celtics with a forty five,
Speaker 1: fifteen and five performance. That would make me not like somebody,
Speaker 1: but everybody can have their opinions on their top five,
Speaker 1: their top ten. But when I think your opinion is
Speaker 1: flawed is when I'll call you out. If you love
Speaker 1: Bill Russell great, make Bill Russell the goat, I have
Speaker 1: no problem with that, But don't tell me. Hey, all
Speaker 1: these other guys built up this franchise. He's got Tim
Speaker 1: Duncan ahead of Lebron James. Tim Duncan didn't build up
Speaker 1: San Antonio. Last I looked, it started with the Admiral.
Speaker 1: Now you can say Tim, and Tim's one of the
Speaker 1: great players of all time, decorated five titles. I'm okay
Speaker 1: with all of that. But when you say these people
Speaker 1: I'm putting in here helped build up a franchise, tell
Speaker 1: me who did what Lebron did at age twenty two
Speaker 1: with a team that was not good. He's in Cleveland,
Speaker 1: the pressure of his hometown to try to deliver and
Speaker 1: was able to do what Lebron James did exactly and
Speaker 1: then to go back to Cleveland and deliver on a
Speaker 1: promise and deliver a championship. And he actually had some
Speaker 1: help then with Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving. He had
Speaker 1: some help there. But Paul Pierce should just admit, look, hey,
Speaker 1: I don't like Lebron James just say that we don't
Speaker 1: like each other. I'm fine with that. It was a
Speaker 1: rivalry in a time with the NBA where it's kind
Speaker 1: of devoid of rivalries. You had one there. They didn't
Speaker 1: like each other. The fact that the Celtics still don't
Speaker 1: like Ray Allen because he had the audacity to go
Speaker 1: to Miami, I mean, that's a rivalry. I'm cool with that.
Speaker 1: But you can't sit here and say Lebron. Lebron's the
Speaker 1: top five player of all time. He just is. But
Speaker 1: if if he wants to do maybe he's just trolling.
Speaker 1: Maybe he's learning. You know, Kendrick Perkins does this all
Speaker 1: the time. He does it well. By the way, those
Speaker 1: clips are courtesy of ESPN. Yes, Paul, I have a
Speaker 1: question about an all time NBA player, But I want
Speaker 1: to present a theory to you. Briefly, they will Chamberlain
Speaker 1: is never mentioned in the all time NBA greats that
Speaker 1: upper echelone. I don't think anyone ever mentions him in
Speaker 1: the top ten. And my theory is he is kind
Speaker 1: of like an anomaly, a freak. He's on his own island.
Speaker 1: I don't know, if he's like Babe Ruth or Jim Brown,
Speaker 1: where he was so freakish as an athlete and so
Speaker 1: much different than who he's going against, he is boxed
Speaker 1: out of the conversation, no pun because of his dominance
Speaker 1: that he's just kind of on an island of his own.
Speaker 1: The guy was an All Star every year. He was
Speaker 1: an MVP like half a dozen times. He had seasons
Speaker 1: with forty five and twenty four. That's double at what
Speaker 1: a good player does. Now, why do you think Wilt
Speaker 1: Chamberll is not considered by most lists? He didn't win,
Speaker 1: But if he didn't win, that's it. If Wilt was
Speaker 1: never known as a winner. Okay, And that was always
Speaker 1: the knock on Wilt because he had Russell and Russell won.
Speaker 1: Wilt was the better player, but Russell won. And if
Speaker 1: you're saying, hey, who you're arding your team with, it
Speaker 1: depends on who's my team. Because if I don't have
Speaker 1: to have Bill Russell do anything offensively, Bill Russell would
Speaker 1: be the ideal guy to have. But I think Will
Speaker 1: Chamberlain wanted to prove that he could do what Bill
Speaker 1: Russell did because if you look at what he did
Speaker 1: when he was with the Lakers when they won thirty
Speaker 1: three in a row. Wilt did not score. He rebounded,
Speaker 1: block shots. He played a Bill Russell like position. But
Speaker 1: even then, he's averaging close to what Russell's best season was.
Speaker 1: I think Russell was maybe sixteen points. Chamberlain averaged fifteen
Speaker 1: points that year. But he wanted to block shots, rebound
Speaker 1: and lead the scoring to Jerry West and Gail Goodrich,
Speaker 1: Jim McMillan, those guys. That's what he did. He wanted
Speaker 1: to prove he led the league and assist as a center.
Speaker 1: Wilt wanted to prove you wrong. He just he didn't win.
Speaker 1: And because of that we looked at him and as
Speaker 1: a statistical anomaly and say, boy, those are great numbers,
Speaker 1: but you're not a winner. And it's the worst thing
Speaker 1: you can say about somebody. You're not a winner. But yeah,
Speaker 1: Will Will was the most dominating player because of what
Speaker 1: he did, how he did it. You know, he averaged
Speaker 1: fifty points in the season, fifty point four. I think
Speaker 1: he played. I think he played every something, and he
Speaker 1: never fouled out. How's that possible? Never fouled out? And
Speaker 1: I saw him when he wasn't the dominating force. I
Speaker 1: saw him when he was a defensive force with those
Speaker 1: Lakers back in the early seventies. But also understand this,
Speaker 1: it's like the NFL doesn't track sacks. Prior to I
Speaker 1: think nineteen eighty two, the NBA did not have a
Speaker 1: you know, they didn't follow the block shot stat I
Speaker 1: don't know what Russell would have had or what Wilt
Speaker 1: would have had, but just imagine they didn't even track
Speaker 1: those stats back then. All right, we'll take a break.
Speaker 1: We got some phone calls coming up. Eight seven seven
Speaker 1: three d P show email address DPA Dan Patrick dot com. Ah.
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes we come in and we go I
Speaker 1: don't know if I can fill up three hours, and
Speaker 1: then other times I come in, which has been probably
Speaker 1: more of what this has been. We have so many
Speaker 1: things to talk about. It's really incredible, it is. There's
Speaker 1: so much going on with no games going on. There's
Speaker 1: so much going on, so many stories here. Now granted
Speaker 1: they might be stories we wouldn't normally cover, but it's
Speaker 1: pretty fascinating. Yeah. Point, the NBA films went back and
Speaker 1: they found some different stats on Wilt Chamberlain. There were
Speaker 1: games where later in his career they started checking blocks,
Speaker 1: putting blocks in the official scoreboard, and so one hundred
Speaker 1: and twelve of Wilt chamberlains thirteen hundred and five NBA games,
Speaker 1: blocks were kept. In those one hundred and twelve games,
Speaker 1: he averaged eight point blocks per game, eight point eight
Speaker 1: and that was for a season. So there was a
Speaker 1: season where he averaged eight point eight blocks per game.
Speaker 1: The highest other than eight point eight is five point
Speaker 1: six by Mark Eaton for one season. Well what about Russell? Again,
Speaker 1: he was in that era where they didn't keep track,
Speaker 1: So I gotta check if he ever had him kept track?
Speaker 1: All right? When we come back, was Stewart Scott onto
Speaker 1: something the night he did the highlights of the NBA
Speaker 1: Finals when Michael had the flu game now known as
Speaker 1: food poisoning. We'll bring back Stewart Scott a clip from
Speaker 1: Sports Center that night that I did not know. I
Speaker 1: was out in Utah that night and Stewart was thrown
Speaker 1: to me when I was doing the postgame interviews, but
Speaker 1: I did not know how he led into the highlights
Speaker 1: that night. Have that for you and your phone calls
Speaker 1: twenty after the hour. This is the Dan Patrick Show.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Dan Patrick Show podcast. Be
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Speaker 1: day on the iHeartRadio app by searching f s R.
Speaker 1: I noticed this, and I wasn't thinking about it, but
Speaker 1: it was there right in front of me, and I
Speaker 1: didn't even know this. I'm watching Scott Van Peldon Sports
Speaker 1: Center last night and Van Peasey plays Stewart Scott's highlights
Speaker 1: the night of the flu game. Now the food poisoning.
Speaker 1: So Stewart is there in Bristol at the Mothership headquarters
Speaker 1: and he is leading into the highlights. So the game
Speaker 1: is over and he's leading into the highlights. Now listen
Speaker 1: to what Stewart Scott says on Sports Center leading into
Speaker 1: the highlights that night about Michael Jordan and his health.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was takeout food. The bulls Parks It dwelling
Speaker 1: in Utah does not have room service. But at five
Speaker 1: ten Utah time, Michael got to the arena a touch
Speaker 1: of the flu after sleeping all day. No doubt though
Speaker 1: the four time finals MVP would started. Okay, let me
Speaker 1: go back and play what Stewart said that night. This
Speaker 1: is you know, probably ten minutes, fifteen minutes, twenty minutes
Speaker 1: after the game where Mike is sick, but he comes
Speaker 1: back and of course has this heroic performance in game five.
Speaker 1: This is what Stewart Scott said that night. Maybe it
Speaker 1: was takeout food the bulls. Park City dwelling in Utah
Speaker 1: does not have room service. But at five ten, Utah time,
Speaker 1: Michael got to the arena. So the flu episode, once again,
Speaker 1: we weren't staying there. ESPN was staying in Salt Lake City,
Speaker 1: downtown Salt Lake City. I was told that Mike was
Speaker 1: staying in Park City. Now we're finding out that that's true.
Speaker 1: And where he was staying from what I was told
Speaker 1: was not a hotel, and so he had the top
Speaker 1: floor and he had friends there. There were three people
Speaker 1: that I met a year and a half ago who said,
Speaker 1: we worked that night. We worked that night and we delivered.
Speaker 1: You know, we were basically bartenders there. But Stewart is
Speaker 1: finding that Stewart knew this. Then how did he find
Speaker 1: out that they don't have room service and he is
Speaker 1: suspecting takeout. I'm gonna play it one more time just
Speaker 1: because I'm blown away by this, and maybe it was
Speaker 1: takeout food. The bulls Park City dwelling in Utah does
Speaker 1: not have room service, but at five ten, Utah time,
Speaker 1: Michael got to the arena a touch of the flu
Speaker 1: after sleeping all day. Man, that's out, that's outside the lines.
Speaker 1: There aided bobbly boo. Yeah, that's pretty good. Pretty good. Now.
Speaker 1: I know Stewart was friends with Mike, but I don't
Speaker 1: know if Mike would have been been on the phone
Speaker 1: or if Stewart checked in with a mod rashad. But
Speaker 1: I will say this, Stewart was he was great with
Speaker 1: attention to detail. He would drive the stats people crazy,
Speaker 1: our research department, He'd drive them crazy because he always
Speaker 1: wanted to give you something that nobody else could. And man,
Speaker 1: I applaud you, Stu. That is awesome. Pretty good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: seton Hey, Satan. Yeah, I was gonna ask if Stuart's
Speaker 1: Scott Michael Jordan were friends then yeah they. I don't
Speaker 1: know when that friendship started, but hear me, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: got you. Can you hear me? Don't? I think Satan
Speaker 1: might be down there. Yeah, they became friends both going
Speaker 1: to North Carolina, and I think Stewart did interviews with
Speaker 1: him soon after that, but yeah, they were pretty tight.
Speaker 1: And uh, I think Stewart got to be part of
Speaker 1: that inner circle with Michael Jordan. But i'd never heard that.
Speaker 1: And once again, I'm out in Salt Lake and we're
Speaker 1: doing the postgame coverage. I don't I can't hear what
Speaker 1: Stewart's saying until he throws it to me. And the
Speaker 1: fact that this is the night of. This isn't a
Speaker 1: week later, this isn't twenty two years later. This is
Speaker 1: the night of. And he's leading in and he's talking
Speaker 1: about a hotel that didn't have room service and it
Speaker 1: might have been takeout. Good God, imagine if he had
Speaker 1: said bad pizza here, like, come on, Stewart, I'd give
Speaker 1: you a posthumous Emmy there for something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's good stuff there. All right, we'll get to
Speaker 1: phone calls coming up. Doug, Doug Gottlieb just joined us
Speaker 1: via zoom. Doug, can you hear me? I can't in
Speaker 1: my car, listening as I do every morning, taking my
Speaker 1: dog for a walk. And yeah, that's that's Odell Beckham
Speaker 1: junior junior in the background. And I was I wanted
Speaker 1: to help you out here. I completely disagree with you
Speaker 1: on Kareem, and I'll tell you why in a second.
Speaker 1: But the pettiness of Paul Pierce. And I've known Paul Pierce.
Speaker 1: We graduated same year high school. He was my roommate
Speaker 1: at ABCUD. Like, look, Paul's a prideful guy, and I
Speaker 1: think the fact that he was a great player in
Speaker 1: this and people don't talk about him, I'm sure that
Speaker 1: doesn't sit well with him. But look again, he's doing
Speaker 1: nothing different than what Isaiah's done for years. Isaiah and
Speaker 1: Jordan don't get along. He's down played Jordan for years
Speaker 1: and he's doing the same. But the biggest mistake that
Speaker 1: he's making is what a lot of people my age
Speaker 1: do talking about guys they never saw a play, you know, Like, look,
Speaker 1: Bill Russell was a great player, Will Chamberlains, Like my
Speaker 1: only knowledge of Will chamberlains from my dad, who thought
Speaker 1: wild chamber dog, you know. And then every big game
Speaker 1: he didn't show up in every single one. So I
Speaker 1: would just say we should start from the Bird and
Speaker 1: Magic era and then move forward. I'm fine with that,
Speaker 1: but you know what, Paul, Paul's an analysts and should
Speaker 1: be objective here and just say, look, I had a
Speaker 1: rivalry with Lebron. I didn't get along with him. And
Speaker 1: then if you want to say here's my top five
Speaker 1: or my top seven, I'm fine with that. He's an
Speaker 1: analyst on ESPN. Look, there is also a possibility he
Speaker 1: actually believes. He believes this, you know he believes. The
Speaker 1: problem is how he supports his argument. That's true, that's
Speaker 1: your point, that's true, which is a really good. Look.
Speaker 1: My thing about Kareem and Kareem's the guy who he
Speaker 1: checks all the boxes. But here's the thing. Give me
Speaker 1: the moment, give me just even one moment when he
Speaker 1: and Magic were on the Lakers where it was Kareem's team,
Speaker 1: if it wasn't. I mean, obviously, the most famous moment
Speaker 1: in Magic's rookie year was what he did on the
Speaker 1: road again in Philadelphia, and when they beat the Boston
Speaker 1: Celtic it was Magic making the baby sky hook like
Speaker 1: And I know that Kareem was passed his crime. But
Speaker 1: when Kareem got to the Lakers, they didn't immediately win.
Speaker 1: Took them until they got Maggie Johnson to win. Magic
Speaker 1: and Bird took over the league. I think you start there. Then,
Speaker 1: you go to Jordan, you gotta include Duncan and maybe
Speaker 1: you know, and Kobe and some of these modern day discussions.
Speaker 1: And then I think you have Lebron James and Skill
Speaker 1: O'Neill and some others as well. But I just I like, look,
Speaker 1: I get the knee. You're a Celtic. You gotta mention
Speaker 1: Bill Russell, But like, did we never saw Bill Russell play?
Speaker 1: It's really Kareem was MVP and eighty five in the finals. Yeah, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying he's No. I'm not sitting here telling
Speaker 1: you that you're an idiot for saying Kareema George Barson
Speaker 1: the greatest player of all time. You can make an argument.
Speaker 1: My counter argument to that, Dan would be he just
Speaker 1: you know, but Doug, I was including college basketball in this,
Speaker 1: he's the greatest player he's had. If I look at
Speaker 1: high school, college and the NBA, he's the greatest player
Speaker 1: of all time, greatest career MVPs, won titles, led the
Speaker 1: league and scoring, blocks, rebound, He did everything you wanted.
Speaker 1: I know you if we said, oh, you're gonna start
Speaker 1: your team with Kareem or Michael, I know that you're
Speaker 1: gonna say Michael there, but I might too. But Kareem
Speaker 1: did everything and that's why I was laughable. The ESPN
Speaker 1: best college basketball player, It's not close. It is Kareem right, Yeah, no, listen, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean Bill Russell didn't do in sixteen a row
Speaker 1: with Casey Jones at University San Francisco gread. Maybe not
Speaker 1: the overall dominance of Kareem l Yeah. I would say
Speaker 1: it like, if you're going to do your new college
Speaker 1: in bro then you put Bill Russo in there as well.
Speaker 1: He also did as the coach player coach, which is
Speaker 1: which is unique. I don't think Russell was a great player, though,
Speaker 1: I think he was the ultimate team player. He was
Speaker 1: so limited offensively, Doug. He was unbelieved. He was great
Speaker 1: at what he needed to be great at. And they
Speaker 1: had an unbelievable They had eight Hall of Famers on
Speaker 1: that team at one point, and you had maybe the
Speaker 1: greatest coach of all time. I'm okay, but he was.
Speaker 1: But many of the times in which they beat Will Chamberlain,
Speaker 1: and he was, he was in Will Chamberlain's stats dipped
Speaker 1: against the Boston Celtics unlike any other time, and Will
Speaker 1: Will Chamberlain played. You know whether it was with the
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Warriors. When he played with the Lakers, he had
Speaker 1: Jerry West, Nelson Baylor and his team and you know
Speaker 1: only once and Will was far past his tri I like,
Speaker 1: we gonna go round it round, I think, is like,
Speaker 1: I mean, even like the Russell the Russell's numbers were
Speaker 1: still crazy, there's but the game was totally different. There
Speaker 1: was very living a defense, there was no three point shot.
Speaker 1: It just it's so and and look, I'll take your
Speaker 1: work work because you're the only one of the two
Speaker 1: of us to remember the history of basketball because you're
Speaker 1: that old. Dan, I'm kidding, thank you, but but I
Speaker 1: just I think the biggest mistake dudes make is like,
Speaker 1: like Paul, I love Paul. We grew up in the
Speaker 1: same area, so he should have an affinity for Matte
Speaker 1: Johnson probably has. I don't know how he feels about
Speaker 1: Kobe because that was a contemporary. It's it's really hard
Speaker 1: to find guys who analyze basketball who know the history
Speaker 1: of basketball when because when you're a kid, you just
Speaker 1: you don't have time. If you're a player, you don't
Speaker 1: really have time to go and analyze. I'm the exception
Speaker 1: because I'm a coach's son. Most of the great players,
Speaker 1: they weren't breaking down. They weren't doing what Kobe was doing,
Speaker 1: breaking down Jordan's moves. They were not just out there
Speaker 1: hooping trying to get better, playing four or five games
Speaker 1: a day. And so the best perspective Paul can give
Speaker 1: you is, hey, I played against all these guys. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you Kobe was better than Lebron. And here's why.
Speaker 1: That's where he can provide insight that no one else can. Now,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to disconnect your own personal feelings. I
Speaker 1: will tell you that there's a good group of former
Speaker 1: NBA players some current NBA players are like, Look, Lebron
Speaker 1: played in a terrible East. When he played in Miami.
Speaker 1: They not only they they not only joined the super team,
Speaker 1: but remember they kicked out the legs from the Raptors
Speaker 1: and from the Calves, and so that took away any
Speaker 1: sort of competition the East. Yes, when he was twenty two,
Speaker 1: when he did how they beat Detroit. But but we
Speaker 1: had a lot of weird teams come out of the East.
Speaker 1: Remember Alan Iverson came out of the East. It was
Speaker 1: a one man band. The East was just that far down. Okay,
Speaker 1: let me, just what a settle on this here? Do
Speaker 1: you think Lebron's a top five player of all time? Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: that's good dog. It's great to talk to you. Likewise,
Speaker 1: all right, thank you. That's the godly there. I appreciate
Speaker 1: the back and forth. I always enjoy that. But you know,
Speaker 1: all I want to do is stick up for players
Speaker 1: that people didn't see, That's all. And that's why I
Speaker 1: bring up certain players. And you know, people don't People
Speaker 1: never saw Oscar Robertson play. They didn't. Maybe you saw highlights,
Speaker 1: but you didn't see his greatness. All we know is
Speaker 1: he averaged a triple double. Therefore he's one of the
Speaker 1: top ten players of all time. Oscar was a great player.
Speaker 1: Can't argue with that at all, but people didn't see him.
Speaker 1: If he didn't average a triple double, people would not
Speaker 1: put Oscar Robertson in the top ten. And then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, Russell Westbrook Junior the third does it
Speaker 1: on a yearly basis. Is he one of the top
Speaker 1: ten players of all time? If he wins a title,
Speaker 1: he'd be right in there with Oscar Robertson. Right. It's
Speaker 1: just we have these convenient arguments here and everybody. I
Speaker 1: love when people have their own opinions about players. I'm
Speaker 1: fine with that. I like discussing it, I like learning.
Speaker 1: I just think Kareem is the best basketball player of
Speaker 1: all time. Nobody ever for the big guy. Yeah, McLevin, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm having trouble with the big guy versus a guard comparison.
Speaker 1: You know how we had the idea of a separate
Speaker 1: salary cap for quarterbacks. Can there be a separate list
Speaker 1: for the big men? Because it feels weird, like remember
Speaker 1: like we ewing, we never no one likes the big man.
Speaker 1: It feels weird to compare Kareem and Jordan when they're
Speaker 1: so different. Well, I agree with Doug. If you started
Speaker 1: with the Bird and Magic era and then move forward
Speaker 1: with that, you know, just call it the TV era.
Speaker 1: I'm fine with that because then it takes out you know,
Speaker 1: Bill Russell and Will Chamberlain, and you know Dolf Chaise
Speaker 1: and George mike In and some of these other players,
Speaker 1: and nobody saw them play. People may have. I've seen
Speaker 1: Oscar Robertson play with the Bucks that that was not Oscar.
Speaker 1: Because you're looking at Oscar, he list looks like he's
Speaker 1: a guard point guard that's bigger than every other guard.
Speaker 1: But there was nothing that was dynamic about him. He
Speaker 1: was a great floor general back then, but he was
Speaker 1: averaging twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight points, you know,
Speaker 1: eight assists a game. But he was playing for a
Speaker 1: bad franchise, the Cincinnati Royals. Then he went to Milwaukee
Speaker 1: Final Piece. They win because they bring in Luellen Sendor
Speaker 1: and that's when Luellen Sendor answered all the questions. Yeah point.
Speaker 1: I wonder based off that logic, who's gonna be the
Speaker 1: guy today where people say, wait, he must have been
Speaker 1: the best player in the league. I'm thinking James Harden
Speaker 1: because if you look at James Harden stats the past
Speaker 1: five years, he's by far stat wise the greatest player
Speaker 1: in the league. Like his stats are silly, but I
Speaker 1: don't think anyone is going to say he's the best
Speaker 1: player named a generation from now when people say, remember
Speaker 1: those players back then, Russell Westbrook to me will stand
Speaker 1: out more than James Harden because Harden just scores. Now
Speaker 1: he has the ball, so he's getting seven or eight
Speaker 1: assist a game. But this is Russell Westbrook's average in
Speaker 1: a triple double. Does that not mean anything anymore because
Speaker 1: ment a whole lot when we talked about Oscar, No,
Speaker 1: we average triple double. That's all people knew average triple double.
Speaker 1: They know nothing about any any of his games in
Speaker 1: the NBA. Give me a magical game with Oscar Robertson.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean to single them out. I'm singling
Speaker 1: out the people that well collectively, I'm singling them out.
Speaker 1: If you can do that where we're talking about, Hey,
Speaker 1: I just know this about Oscar Robertson, and there's other
Speaker 1: guys that you need to know about. And I just
Speaker 1: think sometimes we do that Bill Russell And I was
Speaker 1: here from Celtic fans. What do you have against Bill Russell? Nothing? Nothing.
Speaker 1: He was just from a different era. And if we're
Speaker 1: gonna have titles and that's the bottom line, then calling
Speaker 1: the greatest player of all time just be consistent, because
Speaker 1: Michael is the greatest player of all time. Bill Russell
Speaker 1: never lost a finals, right, not that I'm aware of.
Speaker 1: He had eleven titles. See the greatest player of all time?
Speaker 1: Well that's what we're using, you know, it's the bottom
Speaker 1: line for Michael Jordan. Hey never lost Okay, never lost.
Speaker 1: Take a break your phone calls coming up next year
Speaker 1: on the Dan Patrick. Thanks for listening to The Dan
Speaker 1: Patrick Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every
Speaker 1: weekday morning nine until noon eastern six to nine Pacific
Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio, and you can find us on
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app at FSR or stream us live every
Speaker 1: day at YouTube dot com slash The Dan Patrick Show.
Speaker 1: Time for phone calls here people have been on hold
Speaker 1: for a little while. Richard in Arizona. Hi, Richard, what
Speaker 1: do you have for me today? Yeah? Hi, Dan love
Speaker 1: the show and listening for years the subject of music.
Speaker 1: I love when you guys talk about music or anything
Speaker 1: else related to popoca culture. I wanted to recommend two
Speaker 1: videos to everybody if you haven't seen it. Jeff Beck
Speaker 1: Still on the Run, the document Biography okay, And if
Speaker 1: that doesn't blow your mind, why then watch Jeff Beck
Speaker 1: live at Ronnie Scotts. It's an old jazz club in London,
Speaker 1: so it's a small venue and it's just a concert,
Speaker 1: all right. Well. Jeff Beck one of the great guitar
Speaker 1: players in rock and roll history. Thank you for that suggestion.
Speaker 1: Patrick and Ohio joints us say, Patrick, what do you have.
Speaker 1: Hey Patrick, thank you. Patrick Colin in New York joines,
Speaker 1: Hey Colin, Hey, how's it going, Dan? I think you
Speaker 1: are the best interviewer of all time, and I'll argue
Speaker 1: with anybody that wants to argue with me about that. Also,
Speaker 1: I think the back row is the best role. And
Speaker 1: I think if we're gonna pay Patrick Mahomes forty five
Speaker 1: fifty million, then what's the point of having a coach?
Speaker 1: I mean, who cares about coaches? Well, yeah, you lost me.
Speaker 1: I agree with my interviewing skills. I may not agree
Speaker 1: with you on the back row, but you do have
Speaker 1: a coach. You have to have a coach like Patrick
Speaker 1: Mahomes is great, but you need Andy Reid in there
Speaker 1: and Eric b Enemy though I still think they should
Speaker 1: have a separate salary cap because you start to look
Speaker 1: at the Cowboys. Dak Prescott wants to get paid, but
Speaker 1: if he starts to get towards forty million dollars, then
Speaker 1: you're going to have to disassemble the Cowboys at some point,
Speaker 1: and you're gonna have to be all in this year
Speaker 1: and maybe next. So your window is really small because
Speaker 1: of the amount of money that you're going to pay
Speaker 1: for Dak Prescott. I just don't know if Jerry Jones
Speaker 1: is sold on Dak Prescott. I've felt that, always felt that,
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering Dak Prescott on the open market. What
Speaker 1: would the attention be with Dak Prescott. I think with Dallas,
Speaker 1: he's the right quarterback for you, but also the right price.
Speaker 1: Not every quarterback needs to be next man up is
Speaker 1: the highest paid player in the NFL. It's a flawed system.
Speaker 1: I don't care if it's Dak Prescott or if Deshaun
Speaker 1: Watson Mahomes is going to be the highest paid. But
Speaker 1: there are a lot of quarterbacks who are better than
Speaker 1: Dak Prescott who were going to make ten twelve million
Speaker 1: dollars less than him each year. But hey, that's that's
Speaker 1: the NFL's crossed the bear there not. Mom. Garrett in
Speaker 1: Kansas City, Hi, Garrett, what do you have for me? Hey? Garrett?
Speaker 1: Turn down your radio? Yep, Hey Garrett, all right, turned
Speaker 1: down your radio. Thanks Garrett. We'll move on. Paul in
Speaker 1: Iowa joins us. Hey, Paul, Hey, what about Dirk and Risky?
Speaker 1: No one ever talks about Dirk and how great of
Speaker 1: a player he was, a great player. What do you
Speaker 1: where do you want to put him or what? He's
Speaker 1: in my top five? He was transitional. I mean he
Speaker 1: was ahead of his time. There was no seven foot
Speaker 1: big man getting the ball at the three point line,
Speaker 1: splashing threes and making them plays that he did. All Right,
Speaker 1: he was a brilliant scorer, but I don't think that's
Speaker 1: enough to have you in the top five. He did
Speaker 1: win a title eat Lebron and Company. But Dirk was
Speaker 1: a wonderful score in one of the top five scores
Speaker 1: in NBA history. But that doesn't put him in my
Speaker 1: top five. Where was Dirt on that list of seventy
Speaker 1: four best players that ESPN came out with, because I
Speaker 1: was he top twenty players of all time? Because I'm
Speaker 1: not sure? Mike and Maine joins is Hey, Mike, what
Speaker 1: do you have for me? Hey? Dan? Five to seven,
Speaker 1: Furry one sixty eight. You guys have been huge for
Speaker 1: me since this whole coronavirus thing. I just enjoy the
Speaker 1: show so much. Thank you, Mike. I'm calling about the
Speaker 1: whole Bill Russell thing. You know, this has been a
Speaker 1: huge topic of conversation lately, and nobody ever brings up
Speaker 1: the fact that there were eight teams when he won
Speaker 1: his first and I think like fourteen when he won
Speaker 1: his last. And I mean, this might he blasphemy, but
Speaker 1: I feel like there's twenty five guys in the last
Speaker 1: ten years, so you put him in that scenario and
Speaker 1: maybe they run the table. It's just it seems like
Speaker 1: what you and Doug Collins were seeing a minute ago,
Speaker 1: like you've got to separate the two ears. It's just
Speaker 1: most of the fans haven't have never seen, you know,
Speaker 1: any footage of Russell, and we just don't know. But
Speaker 1: the style was so different. I just don't think it's
Speaker 1: fair to compare, or even it's not. It's it's apples
Speaker 1: and oranges. They play the same game, but they really don't.
Speaker 1: And Bill Russell was the ultimate team player. But he
Speaker 1: wasn't a great player. He was a great winner. He
Speaker 1: was athletic, he brilliant defensively and rebounding, and he seemed
Speaker 1: to be able to psych out Will Chamberlain because Wilt
Speaker 1: would put up these impressive numbers. But then it would
Speaker 1: come down to who was going to win a title
Speaker 1: or get to the NBA finals, and it would be
Speaker 1: Bill Russell and the Boston Celtics. But you know Russ
Speaker 1: was limited offensively, he won those titles, and if titles
Speaker 1: they're going to be the answer to this question, then
Speaker 1: Bill Russell's the greatest player of all time. I do
Speaker 1: think starting these arguments in the bird Magic era, the
Speaker 1: TV era makes more sense because we got to see
Speaker 1: them play. The NBA used to be on tape delay,
Speaker 1: and I remember watching the Knicks and the Lakers, and
Speaker 1: that's when Clyde Frasier had one of the greatest championship
Speaker 1: games of all time against Jerry West. I think he
Speaker 1: went thirty six and eighteen or nineteen assist against the Lakers.
Speaker 1: He didn't win Most Valuable Player. Willis Reid did, and
Speaker 1: I think he scored two or three baskets against Will Chamberlain,
Speaker 1: but the emotional lift they made him MVP. Final hour.
Speaker 1: More phone calls coming up. Denny Hamlin had a win
Speaker 1: last night at Darlington. He'll join us coming up. Final hour.
Speaker 1: Ian Patrick Show