1 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: The big news last week was that Donald Trump was 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: found guilty in his New York court case. I'm not 4 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: going to get into the politics of it, and you 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: can listen to legal discussions elsewhere, though I will say 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: that I think it's a complete travesty, an invention of law, 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: and I just all around don't like it. But I 8 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: want to talk about something else. I heard a lot 9 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: of people say they were having a hard time processing 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: what had happened. 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: I had friends. 12 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: Reach out, some of them truly non political, to say 13 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: their faith in our systems have been shaken. One friend 14 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: said she is afraid in a show about living better, 15 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: I think a lot about how to process things. Look, 16 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: I am deeply imperfect, prone to check Twitter right before 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: going to sleep, just to piss myself off, and then 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: struggle to shut down. 19 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: So one thing I would say. 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: For me and for all of you, when the news 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: gets to be too. 22 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: Much, you have to unplug from it. 23 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: No, you can't ignore what's going on in the world, obviously, 24 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: but it does no one any good for you to 25 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: work yourself up at eleven pm. You're not saving the 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: Republic by doom scrolling. Someone is going to be wrong 27 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: on the Internet, and you have to let it go. 28 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: I have to let it go. The other thing that 29 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: I have joked about on here that I don't do 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: is work out. I think the time has come, friends, 31 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: I need a physical outlet. I travel so much and 32 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: I just don't move my body enough. I have to 33 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: make a change. I live in Florida. I love swimming. 34 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: I should be swimming every day, and I'm going to try. 35 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: Every day is a new opportunity to make changes. And 36 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: as we head into the slummer slummer summer, a slower season, 37 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to do what I can to get myself 38 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: in a better headspace, but in a better physical space too. 39 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: I know that working out helps you sleep, for example, 40 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: So if you're having issues with your sleep, may I 41 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: suggest working out your body. 42 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: Let's do this together. 43 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: So those are the things that I'm bad at doing, 44 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: and I know some of you are too. The thing 45 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: that I'm good at doing is seeing friends, reaching out 46 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: to friends, leaning on my husband when I feel bad 47 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: about something, redirecting myself. If you're feeling not great about 48 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: the world, ask yourself if you've spent time recently with 49 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 1: people you love and specifically people you like, people who 50 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: make you laugh, and if you haven't, then go do it. 51 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: Make the plans right now, set a date. A lot 52 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: of guests on my show also talk about their faith 53 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: and going to worship. I think that's always a good idea, 54 00:02:58,080 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: particularly in hard times. 55 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 2: Hang in there, keep things in perspective. 56 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: Don't let yourself wallow too hard. It helps me to 57 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: think about hard times in the past, that people have 58 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: lived through hard times, my own family has survived, and 59 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: look at my mostly happy and comfortable life and really try. 60 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 2: To appreciate it. 61 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: And look. If this all sounds crazy to you that 62 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: people get upset about what they see in the. 63 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: News, good for you. 64 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: Truly be happy that you don't have stuff like that 65 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: impact you deeply. The truth is that most of the 66 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: time I brush off what's happening in the news too, 67 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: but I understand there are times that people just can't. 68 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: On a different note, I mentioned last episode that when 69 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: I hit the one year mark of this show in October, 70 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to switch up my three standard questions. So 71 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: if you have ideas for what they should be, let 72 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: me know. I've already gotten some really good ones. The 73 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: email is Carol Maarkowitch Show at gmail dot com. It's 74 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: Ka ro L m Aowi CS and Charlie Zias and 75 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: Zebra Show at gmail dot com or just tweet at 76 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: me at X. Coming up next and interview with Freddicker 77 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: join us after the break. Hi, and welcome back to 78 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is 79 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: Fred Dicker, the former longtime New York Post state editor 80 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: and Albany Bureau chief. Fred has worked at seven newspapers, 81 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: three TV stations, and several radio stations, and had his 82 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: own radio show live from the state capitol for twenty years. 83 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 1: His reporting won numerous journalism awards as he covered six governors, 84 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: watching what he describes as the fall and rise and 85 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: then fall again of New York. Hi, Fred, so nice 86 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: to have you on. 87 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 3: Great to be with you, Carol, Thanks for having me. 88 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: I haven't told this story on the show, but I 89 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: have told you this before. But I got my start 90 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: in politics working in public relations, and Fred was someone 91 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: that I had to call on a regular basis and 92 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: try to get him to write favorably about the candidates 93 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: that I was working on or the causes I was 94 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: working on. And I've told you this, but you were 95 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: the most terrifying call. You were the one that I 96 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: had to like psych myself up for. 97 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: And I'm I mean, I'm pretty brave. I'm not that 98 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: you know. 99 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: I could talk to people no problem, but you were like, Okay, okay, 100 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: I have to call Fred Dicker today. 101 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: So how do you feel about that? 102 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 3: Let me say you were always charming, but you know, 103 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 3: like a lot of political reporters, I was always very 104 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 3: skeptical of public relations people. I knew what you were 105 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 3: up to, and yeah, you did. I do not respect 106 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 3: the business, but it's not something that I think a 107 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 3: lot of reporters really feel comfortable dealing with. But you know, 108 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 3: to the extent that you were offering me news, I 109 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 3: was interested in it, But to the extent that you 110 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 3: were so soaping me not so much. 111 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: Did you always want to be in journalism? 112 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 3: No. When I finally decided what I wanted to be, 113 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 3: it was to be an historian. Carol and I started 114 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 3: out got a master's degree in history. I was going 115 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 3: for a doctorate. It was in the late sixties, very 116 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: crazy times, and I quit. I had been the editor 117 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 3: of a radical newspaper, which I think will be of 118 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 3: interest to some people since my politics or anything but 119 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 3: radical these days. And got a job in the Holy 120 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 3: Oak Transcript in Massachusetts now defunct, then in Della Hampshire 121 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 3: Gazette the Springfield Union. And as I got into journalism, 122 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 3: I realized that I was sort of pursuing history in 123 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 3: the present rather than looking back to the past. So 124 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 3: fairly early on, Carol, I decided, as you may have 125 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 3: as well, that being a journalist was my calling, and 126 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 3: I did do it for some fifty plus years, I 127 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 3: mean a long long time. 128 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: What would you have done if not that? Like, what 129 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,119 Speaker 1: would be plan be? For friend Ticker? 130 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 3: I think it would have been to be an academic, 131 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 3: although I'm very grateful, especially these days when you look 132 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 3: at academia, that that didn't happen. But I was pretty 133 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 3: serious about being an historian, and I still read history 134 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 3: very intensely to this day. Really do think of it 135 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 3: as a form of journalism, but you know, much more 136 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 3: reflective than the immediate need of a journalist to get 137 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: things into print very quickly. So I think I would 138 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 3: have been historian. 139 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: Interesting do you look at history and see sort of 140 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: cultural trends repeating? Is it. I mean, I know history repeats, 141 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: but do you see like cultural movements and problems coming 142 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: up again and again. 143 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean we see going on in campuses 144 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 3: these days is very reminiscent of the late nineteen sixties 145 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 3: and arguably reminiscent of the nineteen thirties, when serious risks 146 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 3: in the culture and ideologies of a nation really tore 147 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 3: people apart. Obviously key differences today. It seems to me 148 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 3: the students are much dumber than they were back in sixties. 149 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 3: The education quality is much lower. Any aspective reality of 150 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,679 Speaker 3: the Vietnam War, which was touching all our lives, especially 151 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 3: young men back then, compared to the horror of Hamas 152 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 3: which so many of these students now seem to be 153 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 3: subscribing to. It is very great. But nevertheless, I mean, 154 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 3: I think young people like to have sort of a 155 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 3: rout of passage or a trial of the passage, and 156 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 3: that's what a lot of them are going through these days. Yeah. 157 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: I see the causes as really kind of mirrored, because 158 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: in the sixties they were wanting to end violence, and 159 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: I think here they're really celebrating violence and seeing it 160 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: as a goal. Like the fact that you know, glory 161 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: to the martyrs is something that they say or globalize 162 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: the Intifada. 163 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: This is not end the war, this has spread the war. 164 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: This is bring the war elsewhere. 165 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: And so it's interesting because I think I would have 166 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 1: probably been on the side of the nineteen sixties protesters. 167 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: I think I would have thought, oh, let's you know, 168 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: let's end this war that's clearly not going anywhere. But 169 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: the ones today are completely different to me. 170 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 3: Me know, back in the sixties there was the weather Underground, 171 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 3: which was violent and killed people, blew up buildings, and 172 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: that was here in America. But it was a fringe group. 173 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 3: And I think today these pro Homeboss demonstrators on campus, 174 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 3: the anti Semitic demonstrators, are also a fringe group of 175 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 3: what arguably could be a legitimate movement challenging some of 176 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,439 Speaker 3: the assumptions of Israel's actions or Israel's policies. But it's 177 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 3: a small group that's gone their tremendous attention and sent 178 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 3: the administrators of these colleges back on their heels. If 179 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: anybody is really to blame for a lot of what's 180 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 3: going on, I think it's the academic administrator. 181 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I fully blame the colleges for what's going on. 182 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 2: For one thing, just you know, the. 183 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: Language of these protesters as things that they learned in class. 184 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: I mean, you could see it happening, you know, all 185 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: the Marxist classes that they take, and all the arguments 186 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: that they get force fed by their professors, and the 187 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: fact that the administrators have spent you know, decades telling 188 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: us about how, you know, these microaggressions are really expulsion 189 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: level offenses. But now obviously they've taken a completely different tax. 190 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm with you. 191 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: I blame I blame the administrators. I don't so much 192 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: as much blame the kind of dumb young kids who 193 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: are protesting. 194 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: But a lot of it is the legacy of the 195 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 3: sixties in terms of who became academics, who became professors, 196 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 3: who were teaching these young people. What I also see, 197 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 3: as I'm sure you do as well. Other causes the 198 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 3: lack of faith. The loss of belief in God, I 199 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 3: think is a real significant event. Not arguing that people 200 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 3: should believe in God, but when you don't have a 201 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 3: religious belief, you're looking for something else to believe in. 202 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 3: So whether it's environmentalism or sexual identity or in this case, 203 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 3: hostility to Israel. I think people are young people, excuse 204 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 3: me trying to define themselves as part of the larger movement. 205 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: I absolutely that loss of God, I think is what 206 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: they're looking to replace. What would you say is our 207 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: largest cultural kind of problem that we're facing. 208 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,959 Speaker 3: Other than the loss of faith in some meaning to 209 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 3: our lives. That's pretty big in and of itself. I think, 210 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 3: you know, we see it in Europe too, but it's 211 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 3: especially painful in America, which was founded, however without however, 212 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 3: many faults on a desire to give people as much 213 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 3: freedom as possible. And that is the fifty to fifty 214 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 3: divide in our nation today, the risk that's so great, 215 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 3: dividing people by education, by economic class, by city versus country, 216 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 3: and nobody really has an answer to it and to 217 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 3: solve it. That is, and when you look at our leadership, 218 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 3: the failure of leadership. Whether you like Biden or like Trump, 219 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 3: I think almost everyone agrees that we wish we had 220 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 3: two different candidates for president, and because neither one seems 221 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 3: to offer much hope to bridge this gap, bridge divide. 222 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 3: So I think we've got terrible problems with no easy 223 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 3: solution on the horizon. I wish I could see one. 224 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: But I know, do you still do you think we 225 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: are that fifty to fifty country? 226 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: Because sometimes I think we're closer together than it seems. 227 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: I think that maybe what we see in the news 228 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: or in social media is. 229 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: Not the whole picture. And I don't know. 230 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: Maybe I just feel secure in Florida and feel like, oh, 231 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: everybody agrees with me. 232 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 3: Well, we love Florida. You know I do as well, 233 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 3: But I don't know. Look, I read the polls. I'm 234 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 3: going to reading polls as I think anyone is, because 235 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 3: I've been dealing with them for so many years and 236 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 3: dealing with politicians, and privately, the politicians see that kind 237 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 3: of a divide, Carol. There are very many of them 238 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 3: are thoughtful once, and some of them are thoughtful, are 239 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 3: very worried. It may be sixty forty, maybe fifty five, 240 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 3: forty five, but there are really fundamental divides amongst the 241 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 3: American people, whether it's on foreign policy, abortion, open borders. 242 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 3: I think on things like criminal justice, the divide is 243 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 3: not there, and that's going to act the Republicans. But 244 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:02,599 Speaker 3: on other matters, I see snobbery and elitism on the 245 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 3: part of any Democrats and I see an anger on 246 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 3: a part of a lot of working class conservatives, working 247 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 3: class Republicans feeling that they're looked down upon by the 248 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 3: big city Democrats. And I think they are. 249 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 250 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Markowitz Show. So but like on 251 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: something like open borders, for example, are we that far apart? 252 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,959 Speaker 1: Like I don't really think that most Democrats even are 253 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: for open borders, which is why Democrats don't run on that. 254 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: They run on I will fix the border issue and 255 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: I'll make a path to immigration, and they kind of 256 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: have to massage what they say. And I think you 257 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: see that in both parties, where you know, sometimes they 258 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: can't say what they actually stand for. But U the 259 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: open borders on Democrats, I think they can't actually say 260 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: on four open borders and be elected. Even Bernie Sanders 261 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: is against open borders. 262 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 3: Sarah, think you're one hundred percent right on that open 263 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 3: borders and criminal justice. Not so much on abortion. But 264 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 3: abortion still is a divisive issue that's hurting the Republican 265 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 3: But you're right about the Democrats saying away from open 266 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 3: borders and certainly not saying they're pro criminal even though 267 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 3: in their policies. They definitely are. 268 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly it. 269 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: The policies end up being what they're actually for, but 270 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: they can't actually run on that or say the words. 271 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 3: So I think that's why Trump, with all his problems, 272 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 3: is leading Biden in virtually all the polics, I mean 273 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 3: the Republicans. Donald Trump really has most of the issues 274 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 3: on his side in terms of what the American people want, 275 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 3: and that's why Biden keeps attacking him personally and seeks, 276 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 3: in my view and probably your view too, to have 277 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 3: him criminally convicted to try to get him out of 278 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 3: the way that way, because they think they're losing the issues. 279 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. 280 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: I mean that's definitely how I'm seeing what's playing out 281 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: right now. So You've had this long, amazing career. 282 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 3: You know, you've. 283 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: Terrified me in my youth. I think that's an accomplishment. 284 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 2: Do you feel like you made it well? 285 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 3: I think I was very successful at what I did. 286 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 3: I mean, I emerged I think as a significant journalist 287 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 3: at the New York State capital. I had some national standing. 288 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: Not quite up to your left, Carrol, but. 289 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 3: I think I did well. I'll tell you, though, it's 290 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 3: a sad situation in a way, I got into journalism 291 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 3: by accident, before Watergate, before the Pentagon papers, and then 292 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 3: once those things occurred, being in journalism was something really 293 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 3: to be proud of, not that I wasn't to begin with, 294 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 3: but it took on a cachet thanks to Woodward and Bernstein, 295 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 3: which until recently was still with it. So I was 296 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 3: proud to be a journalist. I felt I was doing 297 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 3: public service. I was revealing to people with the politicians 298 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 3: were trying to hide, exposing bad things, telling good stories 299 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 3: when they were good stories to be told. But in 300 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 3: recent years I've really had regrets because of what's happened 301 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: to our profession, to their journalism business. I think deservedly so. 302 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 3: Now many journalists, as a result of the Internet and 303 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 3: other things that we could talk about, but many journalists 304 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 3: are looked down upon by the public, and for a 305 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 3: good reason that they're compromised. They're working for news organizations 306 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 3: that are carrying water for one side or another. I say, 307 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 3: I'm still proud to have worked for the New York 308 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 3: Post and for Rupert Murdoch's publications. I with Fox five 309 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 3: in New York for a while. Now, of course, you 310 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 3: worked with the New York Post. I think about what 311 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 3: this country would be like without Fox News, without the 312 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal, without the New York Post, it would 313 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 3: be far worse in terms of disparate views to Murdoch's 314 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 3: great threatend. In my view, there's an alternative voice out there, 315 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 3: and you're so living proof of it. To some degree, 316 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 3: I was as well, right. 317 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: I think I always hear from people in other countries, 318 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: like for Israel, for example, that they don't have a 319 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: conservative paper, that it just doesn't exist, Like journalism just 320 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: stripps leftward and that's where it stays. How would you like, 321 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: what would you advise to somebody in college right now 322 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: who wanted to get into journalism. Do you still think 323 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: you would say do it? 324 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 3: Well? I would be reluctant to advise them and do it. 325 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 3: But if they had the great passion to do it, Carol, 326 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 3: I would advise them one critical thing, don't take any 327 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 3: journalism courses. I don't think there's anything. I never took 328 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 3: any these schools of journalism. I think you can study history, 329 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 3: political science, sociology, serious subjects. To me, journalism is in 330 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 3: college is like a make work project to give failed 331 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 3: reporters or failed editors a place to go. But it's 332 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 3: a tough tough thing. I mean, what the internet has 333 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 3: done to journalism we both know, you know, I think 334 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 3: suce the year twenty and fifty percent of all print 335 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 3: journalism jobs have been lost. And it used to be 336 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 3: that the big newspapers really had clout and could get 337 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 3: the politicians to answer questions for the public. We just 338 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 3: saw that with the New York Times, where they even 339 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 3: in public to its credit to the Times of the 340 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 3: credit critical of Biden. You know they're going to endorse 341 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 3: because he won't get interviews. But I mean, it used 342 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 3: to be that you could not do an interview with 343 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 3: the New York Times, of the Wall Street Journal, of 344 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 3: the Washington Post. And now these politicians all over the place, 345 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 3: mainly though in the Democratic Party, but all over the 346 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 3: place are refusing to respond to the press. And after all, 347 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 3: who else can ask questions for the public other than 348 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 3: the press, right? 349 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: I think it would be wise for this new class 350 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: of journalists. I think if they were taught maybe more 351 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: practical uses like how to pitch and who to talk 352 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: to and how to find, you know, somebody's information. And 353 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: I think that there a drift in the practical center. 354 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,479 Speaker 3: Cal right, right, because you just tell a young reporter, 355 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 3: this is what you this is what you ask, and 356 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 3: if you have any problems with them, maybe you should 357 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 3: be in another business. That's the way they used to 358 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 3: talk to me. I mean, you know, we used to 359 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 3: have people who were men who had been drafted. They 360 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 3: were in the arm they were in the army, they 361 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 3: knew how to handle guns. They weren't afraid of guns. 362 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 3: There was a metro transition for a lot of young people. 363 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 3: Well women too, but not as much as for men. 364 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 3: Will we had the draft and certainly the Vietnam War, 365 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 3: so people had their trial or trial by fire by 366 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 3: going through their nineteen twenty twenty one to twenty two 367 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 3: years of age experiences. Today it's too soft for a 368 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 3: great many people. I think you would agree. And yeah, 369 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 3: you've got these very immature people. I mean you see 370 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 3: them in colleges that becoming journalists, and they're like afraid 371 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 3: of their own shadow. They haven't gone through the travails 372 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 3: of life the way I think my generation did. Right. 373 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: I mean, I think million dollar idea for you, the 374 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: Fred Dicker journalism boot Camp, I think I think I 375 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: would highly highly recommend that to people. 376 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: I think you could. You could really teach this. 377 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: This latest generation of young journalists how to actually do it. 378 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: I think that you'd be amazing at that. 379 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, Carol. Other than wanting to have lunch 380 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 3: with you at saying ambrums again, palm beach, I don't 381 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 3: think I want to have too much of Jurgis was 382 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 3: speaking more. That was a lovely lench. 383 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, that was really really fun. 384 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 2: I think you shouldn't leave Florida personally. 385 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: But here we are, so end here with your best 386 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: tip for my listeners on how they can improve their 387 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: lives and be more like Fred Dicker. 388 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 3: First of all, if you have the interests, I say, 389 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 3: take up fishing. It's a very relaxing, fun thing to do. 390 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 3: But on a most serious note, I would say, try 391 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 3: to and you've lived this in your life and you 392 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 3: do right now, Carol. Try to have a strong family 393 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 3: because in an atomized world that we're living in now, 394 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 3: family could be really really important. That is really important. 395 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 3: And just finally, I'd say, try to dedicate your life 396 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 3: to something meaningful and not something crazy. But try to 397 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 3: make our society healthy again. Smell right now, value the truth, 398 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 3: try to go out there and be friendly with people 399 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 3: if you can, and stand up and speak up for 400 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 3: American values. I mean, American values really are something unique, 401 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 3: as you know from the Soviet Union, and sadly, so 402 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,200 Speaker 3: many young people have not been taught about the is 403 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 3: it a uniqueness in America. They've just been taught about 404 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 3: the negatives that really, to me are just the footnote 405 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 3: of the nation's history. 406 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you so much, Fred, loved having 407 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 2: you on. He is Fred Dicker. Look him up. 408 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: His work has been just amazing and really groundbreaking. And 409 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: you know, I'm in for the journalist boot camp, Fred, 410 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: whenever you want to. 411 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 3: Start that fair enough to be in Florida. 412 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on The Carol Marcowitz Show. 413 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.