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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly Jongfast, and this is Fast Politics, where

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Speaker 1: we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's

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Speaker 1: best minds. And in a 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: says that Donald Trump's likely unlawful ballroom construction can continue.

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Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today. The

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Speaker 1: Bulwark's own Sarah Longwell stops by to talk about Trump's

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Speaker 1: record-breaking disapproval of And her new book, How to Eat

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Speaker 1: an Elephant, One Voter at a Time. Then we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to former Senator Doug Jones about his run for Alabama

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Speaker 1: governor against Florida resident Tommy Tuberville. But first, the news.

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Speaker 2: So, Molly, this... The whistleblower at the Postal Service is

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Speaker 2: warning that the ballot system could fail.

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Speaker 1: So 30 percent of all Americans vote by mail. And

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump would like 30 percent of all Americans not

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Speaker 1: to vote because he knows how it's going to go

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Speaker 1: and it's going to go bad for him. The good

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Speaker 1: news is that we have whistleblowers. The good news is

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Speaker 1: that there are people who are not partisans, who are

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Speaker 1: just want Americans and democracy to continue. And, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is something I've said before, and I think it's

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Speaker 1: like we don't spend enough time talking about this, but

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Speaker 1: like you can't go from normal to authoritarianism like this quickly.

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Speaker 1: We have checks and balances still as much as possible.

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Speaker 1: Trump has tried to get rid of some of those

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Speaker 1: checks and balances. We still have some left. And that's

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Speaker 1: very sad for Trump, but it's good news for us.

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Speaker 1: And so here's what happened. We had somebody in the

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Speaker 1: post office. He went to this really great organization that

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Speaker 1: helps whistleblowers. Remember, Donald Trump fired a bunch of inspector

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Speaker 1: generals like he did things in order to make it

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Speaker 1: so that it was harder for people to do things

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Speaker 1: like spot crime and report criming. And that's what this

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Speaker 1: person did here. They came forward and they have gotten,

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Speaker 1: you know, Blumenthal's office. And now we are going to

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Speaker 1: see much more oversight in the post office. And we're

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Speaker 1: going to see that the courts are not going to

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Speaker 1: go along with this. So all of this is to

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Speaker 1: say that everybody needs to vote as hard as humanly possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's a whole lot of messaging bills and

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Speaker 2: fun stuff going around Congress. One is got a little

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Speaker 2: poison pill of the SAVE Act in it. Another is

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Speaker 2: a bunch of Dems voting to condemn socialism. I'm just

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Speaker 2: wondering why we are doing this in the general. What

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Speaker 2: are you seeing?

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Speaker 1: First of all, so this is a GOP's anti-socialism bill.

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Speaker 1: And what they're trying to do is make candidates who

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Speaker 1: are trying to win in red states say they're socialist

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Speaker 1: or say that they won't disavow socialism. Look, the House

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Speaker 1: is back for a very short window. Mike Johnson knows

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Speaker 1: he's going to lose. He is fucking panicking. And they're

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Speaker 1: trying every weird thing they can. The point is, what

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Speaker 1: is socialism? Is socialism health care? Is socialism having the

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Speaker 1: city pick up your trash? Is socialism paving the street?

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Speaker 1: All of this stuff is like nothing means anything and

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Speaker 1: words don't even matter. So there are people in this country,

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Speaker 1: and I think of looking at you, Elon Musk, who

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Speaker 1: consider socialism to be like, food safety, you know. And

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Speaker 1: as we've recently experimented with food safety, you know, by

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Speaker 1: the way, every time I eat something now, I think like,

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Speaker 1: is this going to make me sick in a month?

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Speaker 2: Literally, I got a stomachache from a thing the other

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Speaker 2: day that should not have given me a stomachache. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, good. Is this where it ends?

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of fucked up shit going through the

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Speaker 1: House right now. And that is because these are all

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Speaker 1: messaging bills. They're not going to go anywhere. They're trying

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Speaker 1: to make it so Republicans can win. It's all just

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Speaker 1: absolute theater. And it's theater for no one because no

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Speaker 1: one cares. I mean, fine. Vote against socialism, whatever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just wish we'd stop giving into letting them

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Speaker 2: control this conversation and just move on to issues.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's two different things here, right? There's letting them

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Speaker 1: control the conversation and letting them control the House. And

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Speaker 1: right now they have the gavel so they can do

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Speaker 1: whatever they want. It's very stupid. And the point here

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Speaker 1: is that this condemned socialism resolution has the Save America

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Speaker 1: Act hidden in it. So the idea is if you

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Speaker 1: vote against it, they can be like, oh, you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: condemn socialism, whatever. It's beyond stupid.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so President Trump talked to a character from the

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Speaker 2: Hunger Games. I mean, former Congressman Trey Gowdy. And there

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Speaker 2: was some really, really, really gross stuff in here. Let's watch.

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Speaker 4: We're going to go through a lot of things. You're

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Speaker 4: going to have the taxes raised. We're going to have

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Speaker 4: crazy things happening, like the men and women's sports will

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Speaker 4: never end. None of the stuff transgender will never end.

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Speaker 4: Open borders. They'll open the borders immediately.

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Speaker 2: So he's implying that he would end transgender.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he's going to end it. All right. Look, I mean,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is very sleepy. And, you know, The Times

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Speaker 1: had a really good op ed by the guy who

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Speaker 1: was Dick Cheney's cardiologist. And he said something which I

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Speaker 1: thought was really interesting, which is he said, why is

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's falling asleep so much? And he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not just normal 80 year old stuff. He keeps

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Speaker 1: falling asleep. We saw it last night, like yesterday, too,

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Speaker 1: during a cabinet meeting, just dozing off. And I would

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Speaker 1: like to know more about sleepy Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: Sleepy Don.

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Speaker 1: Many people are saying sleepy Don, the sleepiest.

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Speaker 2: I think we should just call him that from now

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Speaker 2: on on this podcast. So let's talk about why Army

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Speaker 2: Secretary Dan Driscoll resigned. You're going to be shocked to

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Speaker 2: hear that Pete Higgs' great attitude is a part of this.

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Speaker 1: So Dan Driscoll actually, it pains me to say this,

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Speaker 1: but he wanted to modernize the Army. Basically, from now,

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Speaker 1: wars are fought by drones. They're not necessarily fought by

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Speaker 1: people in airplanes, though they are. But like drones are

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Speaker 1: kind of the thing that has made Ukraine able to

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Speaker 1: stay in this war, despite being way outgunned by the Russians.

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Speaker 1: And so this guy, Dan Driscoll, wanted to make the

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Speaker 1: army more modern. And that was always like, What this

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Speaker 1: administration had asked for all that money to do was

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Speaker 1: to modernize. Remember, they were going to build ships. They

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Speaker 1: were going to modernize the army. So what they did

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Speaker 1: instead was go to war with seven countries. And now

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Speaker 1: the guy who is a weekend TV host is like

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Speaker 1: not getting along. And so Dan Driscoll, who like actually

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Speaker 1: knew what he was doing, has now resigned because Pete

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Speaker 1: Hexess wouldn't let him modernize. That's basically what he's saying.

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Speaker 1: And he recently spoke to Trump, expressed his concerns about

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Speaker 1: the state of the other, a state of the army.

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Speaker 1: And Donald Trump was like, yeah, but how are you

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Speaker 1: on television? Dan Driscoll was like, well, I'm not a

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Speaker 1: weekend TV host. And now he is also out of work.

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Speaker 1: So maybe he will ultimately become a weekend TV host.

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Speaker 1: This guy was nicknamed the drone guy for his work

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Speaker 1: on military modernization. You would think that he'd actually probably

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Speaker 1: be a useful person to keep her out. Sarah Longwell

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Speaker 1: is the publisher of The Bulwark, host of the Focus

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Speaker 1: Group podcast, and the author of How to Eat an

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Speaker 1: Elephant One Boat at a Time. Welcome, welcome, Sarah Longwell.

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Speaker 5: Oh, hey, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Did you coin the phrase the bush line?

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Speaker 5: I sure did. And I'm proud of it.

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Speaker 1: You see, I was on Deadline White House and she

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Speaker 1: said the Bush line. And I thought, well, maybe Nicole

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Speaker 1: has come up with the Bush line. But then someone

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Speaker 1: was like, no, Sarah Longwell came up with the Bush line.

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Speaker 1: So since you came up with a phrase, I would

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Speaker 1: like you to explain to our listeners what it is

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Speaker 1: and what it means.

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Speaker 5: When George W. Bush left office, he left office at

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Speaker 5: 32 percent. And that was meaningful for a number of reasons,

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Speaker 5: the first of which was obviously he was fighting an

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Speaker 5: unpopular war and had a bad economy. But it meant

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Speaker 5: that not only did Republicans lose the next two presidential elections,

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Speaker 5: when Republicans came back, the party was so hollowed out,

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Speaker 5: it was totally hijacked by Donald Trump. Right. It was

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Speaker 5: able to be changed. Also, George W. Bush is now

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Speaker 5: persona non grata in this Republican Party. It's not just

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Speaker 5: that he's somebody who was once part of the Republican Party.

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Speaker 5: It's like he's anathema now to what the Republicans stand for.

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Speaker 5: And so for me, I think there's a bunch of

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Speaker 5: things that Trump being well below the Bush line would do. One,

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Speaker 5: it would say that this was a failure. The MAGA

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Speaker 5: experiment was a failure to would hang around. We want

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Speaker 5: Trump's presidency to hang around. Future Republicans like J.D. Vance,

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Speaker 5: like Marco Rubio, like an albatross. We don't want it

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Speaker 5: to be a thing that bolsters him. But also the

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Speaker 5: lower he is going into the midterms, like right now,

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Speaker 5: Gallup's got him at 33 percent. Like we are approaching

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Speaker 5: the Bush line. Some polls have him at the Bush

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Speaker 5: line or below. And that bodes well for the out

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Speaker 5: of power party in the midterms. And so I want

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Speaker 5: to drive Trump's approval as far down as possible because

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Speaker 5: I want it to be a failed experiment that never

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Speaker 5: happens again.

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Speaker 1: It seems as if he wants to, too. And that

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Speaker 1: is baffling to me. Like at every point, you know,

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Speaker 1: where you think, oh, he's now going to pivot to

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Speaker 1: gas prices or, you know, he says, no, look, the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court says I can do my ballroom. Look, the

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Speaker 1: reflecting pool. We need to do one more redesign. That

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Speaker 1: helipad needs to be closer to the White House. So

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Speaker 1: I would love you to talk, first of all, why

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Speaker 1: do you think he doesn't seem real interested in reelection?

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Speaker 1: And do you think I mean, like, it strikes me like,

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Speaker 1: do you think anyone is saying to him, like, look, boss,

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Speaker 1: let's cool it on the helipad before so we can

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Speaker 1: get gas under four dollars a gallon?

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Speaker 5: A couple of things in here. One, he doesn't care

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Speaker 5: about whether or not Republicans win or lose. My theory

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Speaker 5: on Trump has always been right. He doesn't he really

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Speaker 5: doesn't care about the Republican Party as a party. And

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Speaker 5: also he sort of likes it when regular Republicans do

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Speaker 5: bad and he does well. Like he like he doesn't

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Speaker 5: mind being able to say, well, I'm not on the ticket.

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Speaker 5: And that's why Republicans lost. but also he's a lame duck.

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Speaker 5: I mean, for as much as he agitates about running

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Speaker 5: in 2028, he is a lame duck. And so he doesn't,

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Speaker 5: he himself doesn't have to get reelected again. And so

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Speaker 5: he's less interested in sort of trying to, to have,

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Speaker 5: sort of a political calculus to this. He's just doing

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Speaker 5: what he wants. And also, I don't think anybody's telling

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Speaker 5: him bad news. I mean, one of the big differences

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Speaker 5: between Trump 1 and Trump 2 is that in Trump 1,

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Speaker 5: he did have serious people around him. And in Trump 2,

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Speaker 5: he absolutely has zero serious people around him, unless you

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Speaker 5: want to count Marco Rubio as half a serious person.

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Speaker 5: And so they don't tell him how bad his numbers are.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 5: I think he does have a bunch of yes men

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Speaker 5: being like, you're fine. It's great. The ballroom's popular.

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Speaker 1: And you think that's just he's he's in such a

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Speaker 1: Natalie Harp crafted information bubble that he can't even see

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Speaker 1: the polling.

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Speaker 5: I think it's part of it. But also, like, again,

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Speaker 5: I think it's the combination of all the things I

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Speaker 5: just said. He doesn't care that much about whether Republicans

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Speaker 5: lose in the midterms. He is in an information bubble

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Speaker 5: and doesn't have a lot of people being like, you

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Speaker 5: have got to change what you are doing. It is

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Speaker 5: going to crush Republicans because he's like, I don't care.

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Speaker 5: And then third, he doesn't have to get reelected again.

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Speaker 5: And so he's just trying to be like, how do

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Speaker 5: I get as rich as possible off this presidency? How

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Speaker 5: do I go after my enemies? And how do I

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Speaker 5: make sure that, you know, I've got all the planes

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Speaker 5: and whatever I need when this is done?

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I'd love you to talk as we are like

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Speaker 1: in this they have this midterm convention idea, which I

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Speaker 1: think if you had a normal party might actually not

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Speaker 1: be a terrible idea. But I feel like when you

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Speaker 1: have a very unpopular president and you have a midterm

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Speaker 1: coming up and he seems like he's pretty interested from

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Speaker 1: what we understand about MAGA Inc., in spending that money

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Speaker 1: on himself, right, even his legacy, doesn't it seem like

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Speaker 1: a perfect storm?

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Speaker 5: I love the idea of Trump having this midterm big festival, right?

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Speaker 5: He loves a big party, but I'm like, brother. Be

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Speaker 5: on the ballot. Let everybody see you. Go talk about

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Speaker 5: your ballroom. Go talk about your reflecting pool. Because voters

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Speaker 5: right now are very mad about the war in Iran.

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Speaker 5: They're very mad about gas prices. They see the contrast

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Speaker 5: of what you're focused on. What's her name? the chief

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Speaker 5: of staff, who's just for some reason- Susie Wiles. Susie Wiles,

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Speaker 5: thank you. When she was like, well, you know, we're

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Speaker 5: going to make sure that Trump's on the ballot in

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Speaker 5: the midterms. I was like, please, please do that. I

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Speaker 5: think that'll work out well.

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Speaker 1: The shot of Freud, shot in Freud that you're experiencing

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Speaker 1: is just making you glow. I want you to talk about,

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Speaker 1: so MAGA Inc. is sitting on 400, somewhere in the

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Speaker 1: neighborhood of 400 million. And they said, and he said

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Speaker 1: he wants to make it about his legacy and tying

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Speaker 1: the midterms to his legacy.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think he says a lot of

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Speaker 5: weird stuff, but I think the funnier part of this

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Speaker 5: is that Trump is not using his massive war chest

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Speaker 5: on the actual candidates who need it. You know, there's

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Speaker 5: a lot being made right now, a lot being made

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Speaker 5: of the fact that Republicans have wildly outraised Democrats. The

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Speaker 5: thing is that that asymmetry is real. Nobody's giving to

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Speaker 5: the DNC. Nobody's giving to institutional Democrats, but they are

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Speaker 5: giving to candidates. And so if a lot of the

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Speaker 5: money that has been given, right, to Republicans, meaning the

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Speaker 5: Republican infrastructure like MAGA Inc. and all of these things,

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Speaker 5: if that's not being spent on candidates, the Republican actual

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Speaker 5: candidates are way underperforming. And so if Trump's not going

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Speaker 5: to spend it on them and he's going to spend

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Speaker 5: it on himself, again, that's all to the good as

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Speaker 5: far as I'm concerned, because otherwise he's spending it on

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Speaker 5: these races and making them more competitive.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 1: So you come from focus group world, right? I mean,

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Speaker 1: to some extent. And you still do them, right?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I do them multiple times a week.

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Speaker 1: Yes. I have a theory of the case, and I'd

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Speaker 1: love you to tell me if I'm right or wrong.

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Speaker 1: Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong. I am

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Speaker 1: a woman, so I won't be offended. Well, or I'll

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Speaker 1: be offended, but I'll work through it in therapy. But

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Speaker 1: I have a theory of the case that voters are— and

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Speaker 1: you referred to this a little bit at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of this— really, really mad in ways that we in

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Speaker 1: the elites can't even really quantify. And that while the

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Speaker 1: elites are scared of certain things, voters are like just

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Speaker 1: filled with fury. And I would love you to tell

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Speaker 1: me if I'm right or wrong and if so, how

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Speaker 1: that manifests.

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Speaker 5: Voters are filled with fury, although it manifests in different

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Speaker 5: ways for different groups of voters. And one of the

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Speaker 5: things that I like about qualitative research is that you

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Speaker 5: are able to sort of gauge in real time energy.

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Speaker 5: Like the polls give you these static numbers, but what

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Speaker 5: I can see from Republicans, listening to Republicans, like I

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Speaker 5: was doing a group of Florida Republicans a few weeks ago,

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Speaker 5: and they're just regular Trump voters, and they're all giving

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Speaker 5: him Cs and Ds. One guy was like, do we

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Speaker 5: have Fs? Can I give him an F? And so

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Speaker 5: like you think about, and I think this is going

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Speaker 5: to be really important for the midterms, is the enthusiasm gap, right?

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Speaker 5: So the anger on the Dem side, right? is I

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Speaker 5: want to.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 5: For a while now, we've been in midterm mode. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 5: in primary mode. And in primary mode, the anger is

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Speaker 5: being directed at the current candidates who they don't see

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Speaker 5: as doing enough.

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Speaker 1: Establishment, too, right?

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Speaker 5: That's right. That's the current where the anger's been. But

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Speaker 5: pretty soon, now it's going to be shifting to the Republicans,

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Speaker 5: at least if Democrats can make that shift, which I

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Speaker 5: would hope that they can, and I would like them

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Speaker 5: to do that.

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Speaker 6: And.

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Speaker 5: That asymmetry, which is like the roiling fury over the war,

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Speaker 5: the cost of groceries, Trump generally being a corrupt, terrible person,

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Speaker 5: the fact that the Epstein files haven't been released, that

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Speaker 5: diminishes enthusiasm among Republicans and accelerates enthusiasm among Democrats. And

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Speaker 5: along with their structural advantages, that's why you're seeing the

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Speaker 5: numbers that you're seeing going into the midterms.

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Speaker 1: Do you... Does it start? This is from my own edification.

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone else is interested in this but me.

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Speaker 1: But like, where does the break and maybe other people

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Speaker 1: are interested, whatever. But where does the break start? Is

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Speaker 1: it the Epstein files? Is that the moment or is

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Speaker 1: it the is it Iran or is it?

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 5: The Epstein files still come up organically all the time

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Speaker 5: with Trump voters. It was an early betrayal. It was

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Speaker 5: an early betrayal that made them think that Trump, it

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Speaker 5: went right to the core of what Trump had promised them,

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Speaker 5: which is like, I'm going to be really transparent with you, right?

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Speaker 5: There's this, there's all these elites and I'm not part

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Speaker 5: of that. And so that was like an early betrayal.

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Speaker 5: Now there was on the economy, people were giving him time.

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Speaker 5: They would say like, well, Rome wasn't built in a

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Speaker 5: day and Biden did such a bad job on the economy.

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Speaker 5: And so you got to give Trump some time. The

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Speaker 5: time's been given. And so like their patience is running

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Speaker 5: out on that. And then you throw on top of

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Speaker 5: it the war in Iran, which they were like, you

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Speaker 5: specifically promised you weren't going to do this. That's become

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Speaker 5: kind of the perfect storm. I think the corruption, partly

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Speaker 5: because not enough is being made of it, is not

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Speaker 5: seeping in with Republicans as much, although it's not not there.

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Speaker 5: But really, it is the Iran war and the fact

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Speaker 5: that it kept going.

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Speaker 1: Right. When when.

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Speaker 5: When Republican voters started to realize this was not a Venezuela,

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Speaker 5: that was the part people started to really turn on him.

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Speaker 5: Like I listen to voters all the time, the groups

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Speaker 5: being like, what is he doing? I don't know what

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Speaker 5: he's doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and it's not nor do we. Right.

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Speaker 5: I mean, what is true?

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Welcome to the party.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. So your book, How to Eat an Elephant, explain

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Speaker 1: to us. It's like polemic memoir, everything. Tell us.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So, look, as far as I can tell or know,

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Speaker 5: I'm sitting on the largest data set of qualitative focus

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Speaker 5: group data from the Trump era. And I've been doing

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Speaker 5: it now for eight years. And I was like, man,

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Speaker 5: I really want to put into in its fulsomeness. I

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Speaker 5: want people to see what I've listened to voters saying

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Speaker 5: because I've learned. a ton. And I wanted to share

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Speaker 5: a bunch of those lessons. But also, I wanted to

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Speaker 5: talk about all of the things that had happened during

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Speaker 5: the Trump era that I saw happen. And so some

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Speaker 5: of it is personal and memoir-y. Some of it is

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Speaker 5: about my theory on communications, which I've developed, obviously, in

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Speaker 5: previous years. But I do have a weird perspective, right?

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Speaker 5: I've been an operative on the Republican side, and I've

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Speaker 5: been an operative on the Dem side. And I'm able

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Speaker 5: to compare and contrast the way the two parties operate.

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Speaker 5: And then on top of that, I listen to all

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Speaker 5: of these voters. And like, Obviously, things change, topics change,

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Speaker 5: the environment changes. But like, there's a whole bunch of

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Speaker 5: things that they have been saying consistently for eight years.

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Speaker 5: And I wanted to be like, here's what voters think.

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Speaker 5: And like, here is how to be responsive to them.

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Speaker 5: And then also, a big part of the reason I

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Speaker 5: wanted to write the book is that I do think

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Speaker 5: that Trump is unique. I think that he is unique

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Speaker 5: to the Republican Party. And I think that the Republican

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Speaker 5: Party has now spent 10 years, this is an obvious point,

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Speaker 5: becoming nothing but Trump. They don't have ideas beyond Trump.

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Speaker 5: All the candidates just got elected because of Trump. And

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Speaker 5: so now is the time for Democrats to go on

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Speaker 5: offense and own the next 10 years when Donald Trump,

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Speaker 5: because he had all of these things about him that

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Speaker 5: made him unique. And I think Democrats, what I want

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Speaker 5: them to do is learn some of the lessons, some

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Speaker 5: of the communications. lessons that Trump has taught us without

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Speaker 5: being like Trump, because nobody wants another Trump. And I

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Speaker 5: think Democrats who think that that's what voters want are wrong.

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Speaker 5: And so it really is a book about like, how

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Speaker 5: do you take the new information environment, use it to

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Speaker 5: your advantage? How do you go on offense against Trump?

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Speaker 5: How do you make sure that MAG is a failed experiment?

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Speaker 5: And then how do you win in 2026 and 2028

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Speaker 5: and beyond?

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Speaker 1: So I want to ask you a question that is

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Speaker 1: I really want to know the answer to. I have

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Speaker 1: a theory, but I could be wrong. So Jeffries had

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Speaker 1: a did a presser two days ago and it didn't.

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Speaker 1: I had a friend who was there covering it and

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Speaker 1: he said there was not a single piece of news

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Speaker 1: that was broken. He said that it was aggressively Biden

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Speaker 1: in the way that it presented information that was not

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Speaker 1: exciting and also may or may not have been factual,

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Speaker 1: but was not did not drive this cycle. Does that serve?

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Speaker 5: Does it serve?

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Speaker 1: Does it serve? If you're a Democrat and you want to, like,

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Speaker 1: does that serve the party? Does that serve Jeffries? Does

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Speaker 1: that serve the agenda? Yeah.

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Speaker 5: No, it's the opposite of what voters want right now.

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Speaker 5: Here's the thing. This is as close to a thesis

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Speaker 5: for the book as I could give you. Democrats for

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Speaker 5: the last 10 years have said Donald Trump is a

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Speaker 5: threat to democracy.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 5: And then they have proceeded to not act like Donald

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Speaker 5: Trump is a threat to democracy. And in that chasm,

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Speaker 5: you have an enraged Democratic base or even just voters saying,

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Speaker 5: why do we keep bringing a pillow to a gunfight?

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Speaker 5: Why won't anybody... When everybody's like, we want fighters, it's

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Speaker 5: becoming kind of a buzzword. What they mean is, Are

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Speaker 5: you not seeing what I'm seeing? Didn't you tell me

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Speaker 5: these people were fascists? Because if they are, we should

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Speaker 5: all be operating differently. Hakeem Jeffries should be holding a

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Speaker 5: press conference every day saying, let me tell you about

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Speaker 5: this corruption. Let me. And so it doesn't serve it.

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Speaker 5: And Joe Biden, frankly, as a communicator, he was too old.

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Speaker 5: to be a good communicator and be on offense the

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Speaker 5: way that was necessary in this incredibly fraught moment. And

433
00:21:59,970 --> 00:22:02,679
Speaker 5: voters want... They do not want peacetime diplomats. They do

434
00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 5: not want people who are operating like the Republican Party

435
00:22:05,540 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 5: is the party of Mitt Romney anymore. They want wartime

436
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,389
Speaker 5: generals who are like, no, the fascists are inside the

437
00:22:10,430 --> 00:22:12,100
Speaker 5: gates and we're going to do something about it.

438
00:22:12,570 --> 00:22:16,980
Speaker 1: I would add... I'm not so sure. Obviously, this is

439
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 1: a Biden issue, but I think that the Biden press

440
00:22:20,020 --> 00:22:25,180
Speaker 1: shop was as responsible for the messaging problem as... So,

441
00:22:25,260 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 1: for example, you would get a call from the Biden

442
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: press shop and they would say, we want to tell

443
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,909
Speaker 1: you about this amazing thing we're doing. And then they

444
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:36,330
Speaker 1: would send you a 20-page press release. And they would

445
00:22:36,350 --> 00:22:38,330
Speaker 1: be like, you should write an article about this. And

446
00:22:38,369 --> 00:22:41,950
Speaker 1: you'd be like, but why? I... You have you must

447
00:22:42,030 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: have a publicist like that's not what I do. And

448
00:22:45,740 --> 00:22:48,179
Speaker 1: they would say, you know what I mean? Like or

449
00:22:48,380 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: I remember once being brought in and have someone and

450
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 1: someone said to me, you know, who would be great

451
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,490
Speaker 1: for you to write about? And it was someone who

452
00:22:55,650 --> 00:22:59,330
Speaker 1: I was not going to write about. And I said, no,

453
00:22:59,369 --> 00:23:01,570
Speaker 1: I'm not going to write that because it's boring. And

454
00:23:01,650 --> 00:23:03,909
Speaker 1: fuck you. You know, and then they gave me the

455
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:05,910
Speaker 1: M & Ms, which I like the M & Ms.

456
00:23:05,950 --> 00:23:09,950
Speaker 1: But it's like I feel like it's like it's like

457
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:13,340
Speaker 1: it's like communication circa 1970s.

458
00:23:15,380 --> 00:23:18,020
Speaker 5: Yeah, right. It's like, are we still faxing? Why are

459
00:23:18,060 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 5: we even writing press releases anymore? OK, Twitter exists like

460
00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:24,700
Speaker 5: this is this is where Donald Trump and this is, again,

461
00:23:24,770 --> 00:23:26,830
Speaker 5: the asymmetry. One of the things that Donald Trump understood

462
00:23:26,869 --> 00:23:29,350
Speaker 5: about politics was that he could have a direct relationship

463
00:23:29,369 --> 00:23:33,370
Speaker 5: with voters. He didn't need anybody to mediate for him.

464
00:23:33,470 --> 00:23:35,450
Speaker 5: He drives news cycles by being like, here's what I think.

465
00:23:35,490 --> 00:23:38,649
Speaker 5: Here's what I think. Here's what I think. And Democrats,

466
00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 5: they do operate in the idea of the Biden press shop.

467
00:23:42,770 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 5: I was always I was I was agitating all the

468
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 5: time back then. I was like, nobody's doing anything.

469
00:23:47,660 --> 00:23:48,619
Speaker 1: Nobody's out here talking.

470
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 5: Nobody is on offense. And part of it was like

471
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,939
Speaker 5: Joe Biden clearly couldn't be that person.

472
00:23:54,060 --> 00:23:54,300
Speaker 3: Right.

473
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:55,590
Speaker 5: And I was like, OK, well, then where are all

474
00:23:55,609 --> 00:23:58,030
Speaker 5: the surrogates? Where is the rest of the Democratic Party?

475
00:23:58,050 --> 00:23:59,790
Speaker 5: And they were also afraid, I think, of being tied

476
00:23:59,810 --> 00:24:01,810
Speaker 5: to Biden that they didn't get out there, like get

477
00:24:01,850 --> 00:24:04,290
Speaker 5: their reps in, go as a group and say, no,

478
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:04,650
Speaker 5: we're going.

479
00:24:04,570 --> 00:24:05,340
Speaker 2: To go on offense.

480
00:24:05,950 --> 00:24:08,350
Speaker 1: Do you think they were afraid of being tied to Biden?

481
00:24:08,369 --> 00:24:10,950
Speaker 1: Because I actually think it's worse than that. I think

482
00:24:11,010 --> 00:24:14,129
Speaker 1: they were afraid of making somebody mad and saying the

483
00:24:14,150 --> 00:24:17,260
Speaker 1: wrong thing. Like, I think it's the if only they

484
00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: were craven in that way, those would be people who

485
00:24:20,820 --> 00:24:24,200
Speaker 1: could deliver. But they were like scared of, you know,

486
00:24:24,260 --> 00:24:26,900
Speaker 1: getting a sternly worded letter from someone.

487
00:24:27,420 --> 00:24:29,239
Speaker 5: Democrats are scared of their own shadow. And this is

488
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 5: one of my favorite chapters in the book is Republicans

489
00:24:32,180 --> 00:24:34,940
Speaker 5: are from Mars. Democrats are from Venus. Because I just

490
00:24:35,020 --> 00:24:36,180
Speaker 5: talk about the.

491
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: Republicans.

492
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,439
Speaker 5: Are straight up mercenaries.

493
00:24:39,540 --> 00:24:40,790
Speaker 1: And they do businesses.

494
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,310
Speaker 5: And they all do... And yes... they have some benefits.

495
00:24:44,410 --> 00:24:47,290
Speaker 5: Their coalition's more homogenous. Democrats is much more fractious. And

496
00:24:47,310 --> 00:24:49,570
Speaker 5: I remember kind of saying to a Democrat early on

497
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:52,030
Speaker 5: when I started doing more work with Democrats, being like, oh,

498
00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:54,210
Speaker 5: you guys have a hard job. Like, this is an

499
00:24:54,250 --> 00:24:57,290
Speaker 5: unruly coalition. You've got to keep together here. But on

500
00:24:57,310 --> 00:25:00,109
Speaker 5: the other hand, I'm like, why are you guys spending

501
00:25:00,150 --> 00:25:03,770
Speaker 5: time unionizing all your nonprofits and like agitating about whether

502
00:25:03,790 --> 00:25:05,450
Speaker 5: or not you have to go into an office or

503
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:08,500
Speaker 5: like you get Fridays off? I'm like, That's not how

504
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,699
Speaker 5: you behave when the authoritarians are here. And so it is.

505
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 5: But I agree with you, too. Everybody's scared of their

506
00:25:13,619 --> 00:25:17,430
Speaker 5: own shadow. And, you know, all these buzzwords like fighter authenticity,

507
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:20,590
Speaker 5: there's real meaning behind these. When you're talking about authenticity,

508
00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:23,110
Speaker 5: what I mean is tell people to pound sand. What

509
00:25:23,150 --> 00:25:25,300
Speaker 5: do you believe? I get Democrats that come up to

510
00:25:25,340 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 5: me at these messaging things and they're like.

511
00:25:28,530 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, Doug Jones.

512
00:25:30,740 --> 00:25:31,220
Speaker 6: Thank you.

513
00:25:31,300 --> 00:25:34,740
Speaker 1: It's so great to see you. It's so great to

514
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,300
Speaker 1: be back with.

515
00:25:36,060 --> 00:25:36,540
Speaker 6: You, Molly.

516
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:46,550
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. So you are running for governor

517
00:25:46,670 --> 00:25:47,410
Speaker 1: of Alabama.

518
00:25:47,869 --> 00:25:49,190
Speaker 6: Now, you are.

519
00:25:49,250 --> 00:25:51,949
Speaker 7: Probably I'm not even going to say probably you are

520
00:25:51,990 --> 00:25:55,830
Speaker 7: the only Democrat who could win this seat because you

521
00:25:56,330 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 7: were a senator from Alabama. B, you have this incredible

522
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:02,419
Speaker 7: storied history in the state.

523
00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:04,860
Speaker 1: I would love you because I don't think I think

524
00:26:04,900 --> 00:26:07,659
Speaker 1: we're the United States of Amnesia and everybody forgets everything.

525
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,660
Speaker 1: Why are you so famous in the state of Alabama?

526
00:26:11,060 --> 00:26:14,190
Speaker 3: You know, famous or infamous, I'm not sure which. They're

527
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:16,510
Speaker 3: almost synonymous sometimes in Alabama.

528
00:26:16,550 --> 00:26:19,909
Speaker 6: But, you know, I guess it goes back to a

529
00:26:20,410 --> 00:26:23,030
Speaker 6: lot of what we did as the United States attorney.

530
00:26:23,109 --> 00:26:23,629
Speaker 2: I was a U.S.

531
00:26:23,690 --> 00:26:26,910
Speaker 3: Attorney under Bill Clinton in his second term. And there

532
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:30,270
Speaker 3: were two major, major cases. that we worked with. The

533
00:26:30,290 --> 00:26:33,630
Speaker 3: first one, quite frankly, was the Eric Robert Rudolph case,

534
00:26:33,690 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 3: which was the bombing at a women's clinic that performed

535
00:26:36,940 --> 00:26:39,060
Speaker 3: abortions that killed a police officer.

536
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 6: And that drew a lot of attention.

537
00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 3: But the one that has lasted, the one that people

538
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:44,959
Speaker 3: still talk about is.

539
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: And it's the case that's in my heart because it's so.

540
00:26:48,380 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 6: It's in the hearts of so many people.

541
00:26:50,290 --> 00:26:53,210
Speaker 3: I still hear so many folks talking. And that was

542
00:26:53,270 --> 00:26:57,070
Speaker 3: the 1963 bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church here

543
00:26:57,109 --> 00:27:02,179
Speaker 3: in Birmingham. They killed four young girls. And in 2000,

544
00:27:02,180 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 3: we opened the case in 1997. And in 2001 and 2002,

545
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,550
Speaker 3: we convicted two former Klansmen for the murder of those

546
00:27:11,609 --> 00:27:12,270
Speaker 3: four children.

547
00:27:12,330 --> 00:27:14,050
Speaker 6: It was a decades-long case.

548
00:27:14,470 --> 00:27:18,550
Speaker 3: People thought justice delayed had been justice denied. But we

549
00:27:18,570 --> 00:27:21,380
Speaker 3: proved that it wasn't. And so that's kind of... That

550
00:27:21,420 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 3: kind of set the stage for me.

551
00:27:23,340 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: And historically, almost, I mean, there's very little historical, there's

552
00:27:29,460 --> 00:27:35,100
Speaker 1: very little historical precedent for KKK getting jailed for killing children.

553
00:27:35,619 --> 00:27:35,899
Speaker 4: Yeah.

554
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:36,570
Speaker 1: Or adults.

555
00:27:38,260 --> 00:27:39,860
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, that's right.

556
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,739
Speaker 3: There were some other cold cases that got prosecuted, but

557
00:27:43,780 --> 00:27:46,139
Speaker 3: there were very few that got prosecuted in which there

558
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,109
Speaker 3: were the death of innocent children, much less the deaths

559
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,750
Speaker 3: of innocent children at a house of God on a work.

560
00:27:52,430 --> 00:27:54,790
Speaker 6: Day on Sunday morning, doing what.

561
00:27:54,570 --> 00:27:57,250
Speaker 3: You're supposed to do in one of the most protected

562
00:27:57,310 --> 00:27:59,410
Speaker 3: spaces in this country.

563
00:27:59,630 --> 00:28:01,669
Speaker 6: And, um, It was a horrific act.

564
00:28:01,950 --> 00:28:03,770
Speaker 3: And, you know, I told folks even in the trial

565
00:28:03,790 --> 00:28:06,949
Speaker 3: 20-something years ago now that that was an act of

566
00:28:07,030 --> 00:28:10,590
Speaker 3: terrorism before we really talked about, had the word terrorism

567
00:28:11,130 --> 00:28:13,010
Speaker 3: on our vocabulary.

568
00:28:12,290 --> 00:28:15,629
Speaker 6: The way it is now. But that's exactly what it was, terrorism.

569
00:28:15,950 --> 00:28:19,910
Speaker 1: And you were a U.S. attorney. You were very different

570
00:28:19,930 --> 00:28:23,970
Speaker 1: than what the Trump administration looks like today.

571
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 3: Look, the Trump administration has completely, I think, removed the

572
00:28:28,820 --> 00:28:32,410
Speaker 3: word justice. from the Department of Justice. You may as well,

573
00:28:32,850 --> 00:28:35,489
Speaker 3: you know, they put his picture, Trump's picture up. You

574
00:28:35,510 --> 00:28:37,369
Speaker 3: may as well have taken the word justice off the

575
00:28:37,410 --> 00:28:40,070
Speaker 3: building when they did that, because it is a far

576
00:28:40,130 --> 00:28:43,390
Speaker 3: different cry. And I have worked with, even when I

577
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:46,010
Speaker 3: was out of office, I worked with the Department of Justice,

578
00:28:46,590 --> 00:28:49,970
Speaker 3: really some often on the other side of the aisle during,

579
00:28:50,090 --> 00:28:54,410
Speaker 3: you know, the Republican administration. I've never, nothing like this

580
00:28:54,590 --> 00:28:57,890
Speaker 3: has ever happened. And it is a tragic, and it's

581
00:28:57,970 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 3: also dangerous. for America and for democracy.

582
00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: So I want you to talk about what you're running

583
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,670
Speaker 1: for in the state of Alabama. I think that this

584
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:11,030
Speaker 1: is a moment in American life where you could actually

585
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:14,170
Speaker 1: win in Alabama, especially because you're running against someone who

586
00:29:14,190 --> 00:29:17,510
Speaker 1: doesn't even live in Alabama. So talk us through.

587
00:29:17,990 --> 00:29:21,410
Speaker 3: Well, you know, look, first off, I had a lot

588
00:29:21,460 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 3: of people wanting me to run for my old seat,

589
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 3: but also run for governor. And at the end of

590
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 3: the day, my wife, Louise, and I looked at this

591
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:30,500
Speaker 3: and talked about it. And we saw what was happening

592
00:29:30,980 --> 00:29:33,950
Speaker 3: around the country. We saw, quite frankly, the fact that

593
00:29:34,450 --> 00:29:37,030
Speaker 3: very little was going to be being done in the

594
00:29:37,090 --> 00:29:38,430
Speaker 3: Congress of the United States.

595
00:29:39,210 --> 00:29:39,950
Speaker 6: It was the governors.

596
00:29:40,270 --> 00:29:42,310
Speaker 3: Around the country who were on the front lines for

597
00:29:42,490 --> 00:29:45,170
Speaker 3: protecting democracy. It was the governors who were on the

598
00:29:45,230 --> 00:29:48,780
Speaker 3: front line of doing things for their constituents, for the

599
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,630
Speaker 3: people of their state. So we've got an opportunity here,

600
00:29:53,090 --> 00:29:57,210
Speaker 3: I think, to do things that a Republican-dominated state has

601
00:29:57,330 --> 00:30:02,070
Speaker 3: not done, like expand Medicaid, create more job opportunities, perhaps

602
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:04,380
Speaker 3: raise the minimum wage in Alabama.

603
00:30:04,870 --> 00:30:06,790
Speaker 6: Do those kind of things necessary.

604
00:30:07,050 --> 00:30:10,150
Speaker 1: What is the minimum wage in Alabama?

605
00:30:10,350 --> 00:30:12,810
Speaker 6: It's the same as the federal minimum wage.

606
00:30:12,810 --> 00:30:18,540
Speaker 3: $ 7. 25. And the irony is our legislature has so much

607
00:30:18,740 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: power and we have so little home rule that a

608
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,300
Speaker 3: few years ago, the city of Birmingham tried to raise

609
00:30:25,340 --> 00:30:29,590
Speaker 3: the minimum wage within the city. And a legislator, not

610
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,130
Speaker 3: from Birmingham, but a legislator from outside of Birmingham tried

611
00:30:33,390 --> 00:30:35,870
Speaker 3: ran down to the state legislature, got them to pass

612
00:30:35,910 --> 00:30:40,170
Speaker 3: legislation that prohibits states, cities, and counties from raising the

613
00:30:40,190 --> 00:30:40,850
Speaker 3: minimum wage.

614
00:30:40,910 --> 00:30:43,740
Speaker 6: So it was of no effect. It's just, it's crazy.

615
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 3: We're trying to get more power to local folks in

616
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,280
Speaker 3: addition to the things that people need at their kitchen table.

617
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 8: So talk me through what— so you're running against Senator Tommy Tuberville. Also,

618
00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:00,610
Speaker 8: the other thing is there is a precedent for red

619
00:31:00,690 --> 00:31:02,310
Speaker 8: states electing blue governors.

620
00:31:02,390 --> 00:31:04,870
Speaker 1: Now, we've seen this in Kansas. We've seen this. It's

621
00:31:05,290 --> 00:31:10,930
Speaker 1: really becoming the thing. Yes. You know, Louisiana, we saw

622
00:31:11,010 --> 00:31:13,510
Speaker 1: it and we've seen it in a lot of other states.

623
00:31:13,530 --> 00:31:15,990
Speaker 1: So talk us through what your plan is.

624
00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 3: Well, you know, look, our plan is exactly the way

625
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,620
Speaker 3: John Bel Edwards did in Louisiana and Laura Kelly in

626
00:31:21,660 --> 00:31:23,580
Speaker 3: Kansas and Andy Beshear in Kentucky.

627
00:31:23,980 --> 00:31:26,500
Speaker 6: And that is that is going directly to people.

628
00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 3: What happens in these states when one party so dominates

629
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,250
Speaker 3: the way that they have in the South like this?

630
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 6: Then they become arrogant. They become corrupt.

631
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:39,380
Speaker 3: They only listen to the big mules, as Jim Folsom

632
00:31:39,420 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 3: used to say in Alabama. They don't listen to people.

633
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,330
Speaker 3: And that's what is happening time and time again in Alabama.

634
00:31:45,350 --> 00:31:48,930
Speaker 3: We see it on this data center issue that's going

635
00:31:49,010 --> 00:31:52,290
Speaker 3: on in Alabama. So we're out there actually talking to people.

636
00:31:52,570 --> 00:31:55,930
Speaker 3: Tuberville's running around speaking only to the Chamber of Commerce. Well,

637
00:31:55,970 --> 00:31:59,980
Speaker 3: you don't get a perspective of Alabama, of rural Alabama,

638
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,710
Speaker 3: of farmer's. of citizens who are hurting out there, working

639
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 3: two jobs and still can't qualify for good healthcare or

640
00:32:07,060 --> 00:32:10,420
Speaker 3: can't afford good healthcare. You don't get that perspective just

641
00:32:10,820 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 3: speaking to your peeps at the Chamber of Commerce. And

642
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,660
Speaker 3: so we're out there, Molly, we have done nine town

643
00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 3: halls since July 1st.

644
00:32:18,940 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 6: We're getting huge crowds.

645
00:32:20,900 --> 00:32:23,940
Speaker 3: And people, what's interesting is that people have the same concerns.

646
00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 3: And that's what we're talking, the same concerns about healthcare, jobs.

647
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 6: Data centers, education.

648
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:31,850
Speaker 3: I've said since I ran for the Senate in 2017,

649
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:37,010
Speaker 3: we've got more in common than Davidas. And I really

650
00:32:37,030 --> 00:32:40,020
Speaker 3: believe this is a change election. People are actually fed

651
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 3: up with both parties. They don't believe that the political

652
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,890
Speaker 3: system is working for them. And they're listening to people

653
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:51,060
Speaker 3: now and wanting to hear from candidates and what they're

654
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 3: going to do for them and their families and their communities.

655
00:32:54,300 --> 00:32:57,260
Speaker 6: That's what we're doing. Tuberville is not doing that.

656
00:32:57,380 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 3: And when he does open his mouth, it's just some

657
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:04,460
Speaker 3: crazy stuff about data centers or the fact that, this

658
00:33:04,540 --> 00:33:08,180
Speaker 3: is a quote, like 40 million illegal immigrants are causing

659
00:33:08,220 --> 00:33:09,250
Speaker 3: the inflation problem.

660
00:33:09,550 --> 00:33:10,890
Speaker 1: They're not even here.

661
00:33:10,910 --> 00:33:15,110
Speaker 7: I mean, they're going to seal the border.

662
00:33:15,290 --> 00:33:15,970
Speaker 6: It's crazy.

663
00:33:16,050 --> 00:33:17,709
Speaker 3: I mean, if we want to seal a border, we

664
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:20,729
Speaker 3: ought to seal the Alabama-Florida border to just keep him

665
00:33:20,770 --> 00:33:23,270
Speaker 3: down on the beach and not at home and not

666
00:33:23,310 --> 00:33:24,290
Speaker 3: get into Alabama.

667
00:33:24,690 --> 00:33:28,270
Speaker 8: So talk to me about his— he doesn't want to debate you.

668
00:33:28,730 --> 00:33:28,970
Speaker 3: Yeah.

669
00:33:29,330 --> 00:33:32,350
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, look, you followed Tommy Tuberville.

670
00:33:32,810 --> 00:33:36,550
Speaker 3: When he says 40 million illegal immigrants in the state

671
00:33:36,590 --> 00:33:40,390
Speaker 3: causing inflation— when he has promised in his 2020 campaign

672
00:33:40,730 --> 00:33:43,690
Speaker 3: to donate every dime he made in Washington to veterans

673
00:33:43,770 --> 00:33:46,710
Speaker 3: and he doesn't do it, when he has no comprehension

674
00:33:47,250 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 3: of what a tariff policy looks like, understands anything about it,

675
00:33:52,270 --> 00:33:55,930
Speaker 3: so he stays silent for Donald Trump when our Alabama

676
00:33:55,970 --> 00:33:59,140
Speaker 3: cattlemen are gonna be suffering because of the lifting of

677
00:33:59,180 --> 00:34:04,170
Speaker 3: the tariffs the just influx of 100,000 metric tons of

678
00:34:04,540 --> 00:34:09,180
Speaker 3: cheap beef coming from Mexico or Argentina. When he stays silent,

679
00:34:09,610 --> 00:34:12,890
Speaker 3: when we start a trade war with Canada, and Canada

680
00:34:13,070 --> 00:34:14,569
Speaker 3: is Alabama's.

681
00:34:14,070 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 6: Second largest trading partner.

682
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 3: We send more things to Canada, sell more things to

683
00:34:21,340 --> 00:34:25,580
Speaker 3: Canada than we do any other country, including automobiles. And

684
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,900
Speaker 3: the fact that he just stays silent, his people are

685
00:34:28,969 --> 00:34:31,049
Speaker 3: not going to let him get on the stage with

686
00:34:31,090 --> 00:34:35,220
Speaker 3: somebody who actually talks policy, knows some things, That is,

687
00:34:35,380 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 3: that's the difference. He cannot, he cannot justify the position

688
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 3: said he's taking with facts. And it's a real shame.

689
00:34:43,620 --> 00:34:47,700
Speaker 3: I really believe people deserve to hear not just the differences,

690
00:34:47,780 --> 00:34:51,100
Speaker 3: but the explanation behind those differences.

691
00:34:51,780 --> 00:34:54,340
Speaker 6: Where did you come, are getting this information?

692
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:56,890
Speaker 3: How did you come to the theory that you don't

693
00:34:56,910 --> 00:34:59,810
Speaker 3: want to expand Medicaid because it would just serve illegals,

694
00:35:00,510 --> 00:35:04,350
Speaker 3: illegal immigrants? I mean, it's just, We just get so

695
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:06,390
Speaker 3: much thrown at us every day by this guy that

696
00:35:06,430 --> 00:35:09,770
Speaker 3: says crazy things that we almost just get frozen in

697
00:35:09,830 --> 00:35:12,569
Speaker 3: terms of what to respond to next because it makes

698
00:35:12,630 --> 00:35:13,150
Speaker 3: no sense.

699
00:35:13,670 --> 00:35:16,130
Speaker 6: But, Molly, people are picking up on that.

700
00:35:16,170 --> 00:35:19,220
Speaker 3: They've seen it with him over the last five years,

701
00:35:19,610 --> 00:35:21,780
Speaker 3: and that's why I think we're getting so much traction

702
00:35:21,820 --> 00:35:23,899
Speaker 3: and can win this race and will win this race.

703
00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: I do also think he's not very smart. That's what

704
00:35:28,260 --> 00:35:31,940
Speaker 1: I mean. Some of these people are like very dishonest

705
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,819
Speaker 1: and you watch them and you think, you don't even

706
00:35:35,860 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 1: believe that. But I do think he believes that.

707
00:35:38,830 --> 00:35:41,390
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, look, that's another way of saying why

708
00:35:41,410 --> 00:35:42,750
Speaker 3: doesn't he debate, I guess.

709
00:35:43,810 --> 00:35:45,390
Speaker 6: But I do think he's an opportunist.

710
00:35:45,830 --> 00:35:49,410
Speaker 3: I think that Alabama is so far in Trump's corner

711
00:35:49,790 --> 00:35:52,590
Speaker 3: that all he has to do is either not challenge

712
00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:55,690
Speaker 3: Trump pat him on the back and do things the

713
00:35:55,730 --> 00:35:58,589
Speaker 3: problem that he's got now is that has been his

714
00:35:58,650 --> 00:36:02,950
Speaker 3: whole senate career right following along take as i said

715
00:36:03,010 --> 00:36:06,310
Speaker 3: taking a knee to donald trump even when it hurts

716
00:36:06,410 --> 00:36:08,770
Speaker 3: alabama he takes a knee on the farmers he takes

717
00:36:08,830 --> 00:36:11,230
Speaker 3: a knee on manufacturing i mean right.

718
00:36:11,340 --> 00:36:12,710
Speaker 6: That's not a strong leader i.

719
00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 3: Mean who what kind of coach takes a knee when

720
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,310
Speaker 3: your team's losing okay right so I think part of

721
00:36:19,350 --> 00:36:22,510
Speaker 3: it is just being an opportunist as well and just

722
00:36:22,570 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 3: says these things. He doesn't really believe it because he

723
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,900
Speaker 3: doesn't know any better and he hasn't done research to

724
00:36:29,940 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: find out the facts. And more importantly, though, Molly, and

725
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,860
Speaker 3: I go back to this, most important, he's not traveled

726
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 3: around the state talking to people, listening to people.

727
00:36:41,540 --> 00:36:45,580
Speaker 6: He has not done that. He has a more arrogant view.

728
00:36:45,780 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 3: Of his role of just telling people what is going

729
00:36:49,890 --> 00:36:50,410
Speaker 3: to happen.

730
00:36:50,850 --> 00:36:51,870
Speaker 6: And folks don't like that.

731
00:36:52,290 --> 00:36:56,110
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I'd love you to talk for a minute

732
00:36:56,270 --> 00:36:59,630
Speaker 1: about what you can do if you get to be

733
00:36:59,670 --> 00:37:03,469
Speaker 1: governor of Alabama, because there's, you know, what you can do,

734
00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:05,620
Speaker 1: what you can't do. So talk me through that.

735
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 3: Well, you know, first off, you know, Alabama does have

736
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,180
Speaker 3: a cabinet for the governor that's in You know, got

737
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 3: about 26 appointments here that you can do a lot

738
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,740
Speaker 3: of things with economic development. You know, the Alabama Economic

739
00:37:17,780 --> 00:37:21,819
Speaker 3: Development Office and their workforce training. That's all some is

740
00:37:21,890 --> 00:37:24,469
Speaker 3: appropriated by the legislature. But it's the governor who is

741
00:37:24,510 --> 00:37:27,070
Speaker 3: controlling most of that. It's the governor who is sending

742
00:37:27,090 --> 00:37:30,410
Speaker 3: his team out to attract industry. It's governor who is

743
00:37:30,450 --> 00:37:32,710
Speaker 3: sending his team out or her team out in the

744
00:37:32,750 --> 00:37:35,190
Speaker 3: case of Kay Ivey to do the things to try

745
00:37:35,230 --> 00:37:39,340
Speaker 3: to help Alabama's economy. One interesting point about this. Well,

746
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:42,669
Speaker 3: let me say this. Medicaid expansion is a big deal

747
00:37:42,730 --> 00:37:46,130
Speaker 3: in Alabama. And a governor cannot fund Medicaid, but a

748
00:37:46,170 --> 00:37:49,710
Speaker 3: governor can increase the eligibility for Medicaid.

749
00:37:49,270 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 6: And then work with the legislature.

750
00:37:53,219 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 3: If we could expand Medicaid in Alabama, it would help

751
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:57,420
Speaker 3: rural hospitals.

752
00:37:57,820 --> 00:38:01,009
Speaker 6: It would be the biggest economic development program in the

753
00:38:01,050 --> 00:38:01,750
Speaker 6: state's history.

754
00:38:02,230 --> 00:38:04,310
Speaker 3: So I think we can do things working with the

755
00:38:04,370 --> 00:38:07,569
Speaker 3: legislature to do it because it's their rural hospitals that

756
00:38:07,610 --> 00:38:11,489
Speaker 3: are closing. It is their economies that are suffering in

757
00:38:11,510 --> 00:38:14,570
Speaker 3: their communities. So I think there's an appetite to do that.

758
00:38:15,050 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: Another really important thing that the governor can do now

759
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,740
Speaker 3: is that under a new law, they revamped the Alabama.

760
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 6: Public Service Commission.

761
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:28,259
Speaker 3: Now, I oppose this law because they expanded it. The

762
00:38:28,660 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 3: Republican-controlled legislature started panicking. over electricity bills they've been in

763
00:38:34,140 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 3: control for over 25.

764
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 6: Years right now they're saying oh.

765
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: My god it's broken and our hair is on fire

766
00:38:40,219 --> 00:38:43,620
Speaker 3: we need to do something about electricity bills in alabama

767
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,910
Speaker 3: which are some of the highest in the country the

768
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 3: highest in the state and.

769
00:38:48,550 --> 00:38:50,830
Speaker 1: It's one of the poor i mean just it's one

770
00:38:50,850 --> 00:38:54,110
Speaker 1: of the poorest states so one of the highest electricity

771
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:55,790
Speaker 1: bills is insane.

772
00:38:55,410 --> 00:38:57,730
Speaker 3: That's right we're like the seventh or eighth poorest state

773
00:38:57,750 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 3: in the country And so they expanded it. But what

774
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,620
Speaker 3: they did was they created a position called the Energy Secretary.

775
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:06,980
Speaker 6: And that is appointed by the governor.

776
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,540
Speaker 3: And that sets the tone for the Public Service Commission,

777
00:39:10,620 --> 00:39:13,500
Speaker 3: sets the agenda the way the law is written. This

778
00:39:13,660 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 3: Energy Secretary will set the agenda. Now, again, I oppose that.

779
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,259
Speaker 3: I'm very public about that because that's not an elected position.

780
00:39:21,820 --> 00:39:23,860
Speaker 3: But the fact is, I'll get a chance to appoint

781
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 3: an Energy Secretary that will make the power company in

782
00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:29,390
Speaker 3: Alabama actually have a rate case.

783
00:39:30,020 --> 00:39:33,060
Speaker 6: You know, right now, the Alabama.

784
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,570
Speaker 3: Power company does not have to justify a rate increase.

785
00:39:36,610 --> 00:39:38,390
Speaker 3: They just got to show how much they spent.

786
00:39:39,110 --> 00:39:41,470
Speaker 6: And it's automatic. It's rubber stamped.

787
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 3: We haven't had a rape case where they were under

788
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 3: oath and had to justify their race in over 40 years.

789
00:39:48,020 --> 00:39:50,740
Speaker 3: And so that is a big area, I think, that

790
00:39:51,090 --> 00:39:54,770
Speaker 3: the governor can have an impact. The other impact is

791
00:39:54,810 --> 00:39:59,130
Speaker 3: in prisons. Appointing a new prison commissioner to really reform

792
00:39:59,330 --> 00:40:03,529
Speaker 3: Alabama's prisons, help reform the criminal justice system. We spend

793
00:40:03,530 --> 00:40:09,430
Speaker 3: 25 cents of every general fund dollar, taxpayer money, on

794
00:40:09,489 --> 00:40:13,590
Speaker 3: our correction system. And that's just unconscionable. That is unconscionable.

795
00:40:13,810 --> 00:40:16,549
Speaker 3: So the governor has a lot more power than folks think.

796
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:19,310
Speaker 3: But I also think there's an appetite to work with

797
00:40:19,330 --> 00:40:23,620
Speaker 3: the legislature, even though it'll be a Republican legislature, to.

798
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 6: Make some of these changes.

799
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,779
Speaker 3: They're very concerned about these things as well.

800
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. No. And I mean, what's great about data centers

801
00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: is that it's an 80-20 issue. Nobody wants them. There's

802
00:40:34,700 --> 00:40:37,580
Speaker 1: literally the right doesn't want them. The left doesn't want them.

803
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,140
Speaker 1: None of us want them. And in that way, it's

804
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:46,469
Speaker 1: one of the very few nonpartisan issues, normal people against billionaires.

805
00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:47,390
Speaker 6: Yeah.

806
00:40:47,550 --> 00:40:51,910
Speaker 3: And Molly, in Alabama, the data center construction issue is

807
00:40:51,989 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 3: just a it's it's the best example. It's the perfect example.

808
00:40:57,590 --> 00:41:01,980
Speaker 3: of what's wrong with Alabama state government. Things are done

809
00:41:02,060 --> 00:41:06,370
Speaker 3: behind closed doors in secrecy. There's a lot of money

810
00:41:06,450 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: out there where you don't know where it's going. And

811
00:41:09,460 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, all of this is foisted on

812
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,340
Speaker 3: a community, foisted on a people, and they're pretty upset

813
00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 3: about it. And that's the change that I think people

814
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,419
Speaker 3: are looking for. And the data center construction issue has

815
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,739
Speaker 3: given us a chance to talk about that more because

816
00:41:23,780 --> 00:41:27,350
Speaker 3: it's an issue right in front of folks. They're not

817
00:41:27,410 --> 00:41:30,509
Speaker 3: happy about it. In fact, they are royally pissed off

818
00:41:30,570 --> 00:41:33,739
Speaker 3: about it when they see things happening. And it's just

819
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 3: like I've said, people in Alabama, look, when you start

820
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,879
Speaker 3: talking about, with any Alabama politician starts talking about any

821
00:41:43,940 --> 00:41:47,310
Speaker 3: project being a gold mine, people in Alabama say, well,

822
00:41:47,350 --> 00:41:49,290
Speaker 3: who's getting the gold and who's getting the shaft?

823
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:51,370
Speaker 6: And that is a big issue.

824
00:41:51,410 --> 00:41:54,790
Speaker 3: And that's why we've been able to use the data

825
00:41:54,810 --> 00:41:58,870
Speaker 3: center as a launch pad for the other things that

826
00:41:58,930 --> 00:41:59,950
Speaker 3: we want to do in this state.

827
00:42:00,380 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really good explainer of the ways in

828
00:42:04,820 --> 00:42:08,029
Speaker 1: which technology companies are taking advantage of normal people.

829
00:42:08,030 --> 00:42:08,510
Speaker 3: 100%.

830
00:42:08,510 --> 00:42:08,990
Speaker 6: 100%.

831
00:42:08,989 --> 00:42:13,650
Speaker 3: And people, it's the perfect storm for these companies because

832
00:42:13,790 --> 00:42:18,569
Speaker 3: people are already concerned about the rapid pace of technology.

833
00:42:18,930 --> 00:42:21,370
Speaker 6: In fact, I just saw just this morning a.

834
00:42:21,390 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 3: News where there was like a lot of these big

835
00:42:23,540 --> 00:42:26,980
Speaker 3: tech companies who are signing a letter saying, we've got

836
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 3: to put some guardrails up. Our technology is outpacing the

837
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,910
Speaker 3: safety of the American and the global people. And we've

838
00:42:35,930 --> 00:42:38,390
Speaker 3: got to put some guardrails. And nobody is doing that.

839
00:42:38,450 --> 00:42:40,850
Speaker 3: And you've got folks like Tuberville saying, oh, my.

840
00:42:40,770 --> 00:42:42,890
Speaker 6: God, AI is the future. AI is the future.

841
00:42:43,610 --> 00:42:46,430
Speaker 3: And folks are concerned about that. And the data center

842
00:42:46,469 --> 00:42:48,340
Speaker 3: captures that concern as well.

843
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: It is funny because I think of Tuberville as the dumbest.

844
00:42:52,340 --> 00:42:54,980
Speaker 1: I'll just say it because I know you're too genteel

845
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 1: and too kind to say this, but I think of

846
00:42:57,860 --> 00:43:01,469
Speaker 1: Tuberville as the dumbest American senator. So for him to

847
00:43:01,510 --> 00:43:04,069
Speaker 1: be saying AI is the future means we're all in

848
00:43:04,110 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: a lot of trouble. Well, you know, I.

849
00:43:06,890 --> 00:43:09,690
Speaker 3: There was an article recently that quoted a number of

850
00:43:09,770 --> 00:43:13,130
Speaker 3: folks in the Congress about how they're using and chat

851
00:43:13,170 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 3: GPT and others. And his quote was that he was

852
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,620
Speaker 3: riding around Alabama talking to chat GPT. And I think

853
00:43:20,660 --> 00:43:23,820
Speaker 3: that that says it all. I'm riding around the state

854
00:43:23,860 --> 00:43:27,370
Speaker 3: talking to people and constituents. And he's got some weird

855
00:43:27,690 --> 00:43:32,130
Speaker 3: thing going on with his phone and artificial intelligence.

856
00:43:32,670 --> 00:43:34,260
Speaker 6: That's the difference between the two of us.

857
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 3: And that's why people are not happy about that. They

858
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,460
Speaker 3: want somebody they can talk to. Just like the old thing,

859
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,950
Speaker 3: remember that we still get frustrated. How many times have

860
00:43:44,989 --> 00:43:47,950
Speaker 3: people gotten so frustrated when you call up a company,

861
00:43:47,969 --> 00:43:50,430
Speaker 3: you call up somebody, and you can't get a live

862
00:43:50,489 --> 00:43:51,470
Speaker 3: person on the phone?

863
00:43:51,570 --> 00:43:52,850
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, that's true.

864
00:43:53,290 --> 00:43:54,050
Speaker 6: That's what's happening.

865
00:43:54,090 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: It's true. Doug, I hope you'll come back before your

866
00:43:57,540 --> 00:43:59,860
Speaker 1: election so we can talk to you one more time.

867
00:44:00,450 --> 00:44:02,450
Speaker 6: Molly, all you got to do is ask. You know

868
00:44:02,510 --> 00:44:04,810
Speaker 6: I'll be there for you. Love your show. Love what

869
00:44:04,850 --> 00:44:05,310
Speaker 6: you're doing.

870
00:44:05,969 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 4: Appreciate it so much.

871
00:44:08,820 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 6: And now your moment of suffering.

872
00:44:11,580 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon.

873
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:16,219
Speaker 2: So Molly, you may remember a guy named Greg Bovino

874
00:44:16,300 --> 00:44:19,180
Speaker 2: who was doing a little cosplay of the SS in

875
00:44:19,219 --> 00:44:22,900
Speaker 2: his fashion. You know, he really seemed like Hugo Boss

876
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,509
Speaker 2: was a huge inspiration for him.

877
00:44:25,030 --> 00:44:26,350
Speaker 1: A pint-sized fellow.

878
00:44:26,670 --> 00:44:30,430
Speaker 2: It's true. It's true. So it turns out that when

879
00:44:30,469 --> 00:44:35,270
Speaker 2: he announced his departure, he was under investigation for alleged misconduct.

880
00:44:35,610 --> 00:44:40,720
Speaker 1: A federal investigator wanted Bovino to answer questions about alleged misconduct.

881
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,580
Speaker 1: Days later, he quit. So we oversaw some of Trump's

882
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:52,050
Speaker 1: most violent immigration actions, was investigated for allegedly lying about misconduct.

883
00:44:52,810 --> 00:44:58,549
Speaker 1: And anti-Semitic remarks, as one does. According to the Chicago Tribune,

884
00:44:58,610 --> 00:45:04,340
Speaker 1: Bovino investigation was triggered by Judge Sarah Ellis, who last

885
00:45:04,380 --> 00:45:07,140
Speaker 1: year called him out for lying on the stand about

886
00:45:07,180 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: being hit in the head with a rock by protesters,

887
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,060
Speaker 1: which he used to justify his brutal use of tear

888
00:45:14,100 --> 00:45:18,739
Speaker 1: gas against American citizens. I kid you not, the judge said,

889
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: I find the defendant's evidence is simply not credible. In

890
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:26,290
Speaker 1: case you're wondering, that's judge speak for you're a lying

891
00:45:26,370 --> 00:45:32,130
Speaker 1: liar who lies. You also had this little anti-Semitic chestnut.

892
00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:37,100
Speaker 1: Do Orthodox criminals take off on Saturday? And used the

893
00:45:37,460 --> 00:45:42,760
Speaker 1: term chosen people in a negative connotation. There we go.

894
00:45:42,780 --> 00:45:47,509
Speaker 1: His tenure at CBP was horrific. He tear gassed men,

895
00:45:47,590 --> 00:45:51,870
Speaker 1: women and children. He called Latino immigrants scum, filth and trash.

896
00:45:52,270 --> 00:45:57,450
Speaker 1: While identifying as Native American, he is Italian. Most notably,

897
00:45:57,489 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: he claimed that Alex Bredy, a 37-year-old ICU nurse, had

898
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,180
Speaker 1: intended to harm the officer who shot him 10 times

899
00:46:05,260 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 1: while he was pinned to the ground with his gun holstered.

900
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,190
Speaker 1: Since his exit, Bovino has accused the Trump administration of

901
00:46:13,250 --> 00:46:18,490
Speaker 1: wanting him killed. And Trump himself... of betraying his mass

902
00:46:18,670 --> 00:46:24,340
Speaker 1: immigration goals. He seems like a great guy, Balvino. That's

903
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:31,739
Speaker 1: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday,

904
00:46:31,940 --> 00:46:35,819
Speaker 1: and Saturday to hear the best minds in politics make

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00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,930
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

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00:46:40,350 --> 00:46:43,790
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

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00:46:44,190 --> 00:46:45,310
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.