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Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. I'm really pleased to

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Speaker 1: welcome my guests, Brian Blaze. He's the president of Paragon

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Speaker 1: Health Institute and former Special Assistant to the President for

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Speaker 1: Economic Policy at the White Houses National Economic Council from

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen, where he coordinated the development

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Speaker 1: and execution of numerous health policies and advised the President,

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Speaker 1: NEC Director and senior officials. He recently testified before the

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Speaker 1: Senate Finance Committee on the rising cost of healthcare for

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Speaker 1: all Americans. And I'm really pleased to talk with him

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Speaker 1: today because I think solving the issue of the rising

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Speaker 1: cost of health care is one of the fundamental issues

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Speaker 1: at our time. And let me say, when you talk affordability,

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Speaker 1: affordability of health care is a dramatically bigger issue for

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Speaker 1: the American and the affordability of bacon or gasoline or

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Speaker 1: things that we normally put in that zone. But healthcare

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Speaker 1: today is extraordinarily expensive and a huge burden on the

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Speaker 1: American people. Brian, welcome, and thank you for joining me

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Speaker 1: on this world.

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Speaker 2: Mister speaker, it is a privilege to be with you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me on.

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Speaker 1: You know, before we get into health was just I

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Speaker 1: think going to be given them pretty eminent domestic issue

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Speaker 1: of the next few years. Tell me for a couple

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Speaker 1: of monents about this what you have developed at the

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Speaker 1: Paragon Health Institute suddenly emerged, and frankly, I have found

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Speaker 1: the work of the Paragon Health Institute to be among

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Speaker 1: the most insightful and most interesting work being done in

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Speaker 1: Washington today. How do the Paragon develop and what is

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Speaker 1: your role in that development? Well?

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Speaker 2: Thanks, I appreciate you saying that conservatives and those of

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Speaker 2: us who support the free markets haven't always been outfront

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Speaker 2: and leading on healthcare reform, and there was a real

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Speaker 2: void in the free market community for an organization that

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Speaker 2: would analyze how government healthcare programs were actually working, not

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Speaker 2: just the intentions behind the programs, and then to develop

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Speaker 2: a set of policy solutions that are consistent with our

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Speaker 2: principles of expanding choice, injecting market competition, and really making

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Speaker 2: sure that we have a regulatory climate that's conducive to innovation.

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Speaker 2: So I launched the organization just about four years ago,

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Speaker 2: and I've been really fortunate to work with some of

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Speaker 2: the best free market health policy minds in the country.

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Speaker 2: Filled out a team that was based on a lot

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Speaker 2: of the relationships that I had developed when I served

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Speaker 2: under President Trump in his first term, and we set

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Speaker 2: about thinking through what could be an agenda if President

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Speaker 2: Trump returned to office and if there would be a

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Speaker 2: congressional majorities in twenty twenty five. So we focused on

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Speaker 2: some big ideas, like how you could reform Medicare, how

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Speaker 2: you could reform Medicaid, how you could reform Obamacare, and

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Speaker 2: we also thought through what an administration could do on

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Speaker 2: its own. And after the twenty twenty four elections, we

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Speaker 2: really had an opportunity to reform government health programs and

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Speaker 2: the Medicaid provisions in the One Big Beautiful Bill. They're

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Speaker 2: really the most significant in tunement reform since you were Speaker.

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Speaker 2: I mean, when you were Speaker, there were significant Medicare reforms,

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Speaker 2: but the Medicaid reforms that passed in the Reconciliation Bill,

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Speaker 2: implementing work and community engagement requirements for able bodied, working

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Speaker 2: age adults and really reforming some of the underlying broken

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Speaker 2: parts of the Medicaid program were really instrumental. And we've

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Speaker 2: been focused the last four or five months on issues

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Speaker 2: with Obamacare, problems with Obamacare and fighting to make it

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Speaker 2: clear to Congress sort of the role that Obamacare had

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Speaker 2: and making healthcare unaffordable, and what is a better policy

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Speaker 2: direction rather than just increasing more subsidies to health insurance companies.

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Speaker 1: The whole process of the way in which bureaucracies and

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Speaker 1: the lobbyists and the big corporations twist policies that on

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Speaker 1: the surface sound perfectly good, but by the time they

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Speaker 1: get implemented, they're so distorted to fit the interests of

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Speaker 1: the big powerful players that they really undermine the whole process.

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Speaker 1: And I think we just saw a really weird example

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Speaker 1: of this and what happened in Minneapolis, where people came

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Speaker 1: together to steal about a billion dollars, not a million,

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Speaker 1: a billion dollars in the city of Minneapolis alone, and

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Speaker 1: most of that involves stealing from health programs and programs

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Speaker 1: to help the poor, and these people were just looting

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Speaker 1: the government, and the bureaucrats were so slow and so

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Speaker 1: timid that they sat there passively while people stole about

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Speaker 1: a billion dollars. And my understanding is that there are

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Speaker 1: a number of areas now, including the recent case in

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Speaker 1: New Jersey where one of the New Jersey Blues I

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Speaker 1: think were required to pay back something like one hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty million dollars that they had fraudulently taken. I'm

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Speaker 1: an org on a theory that one of the core

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Speaker 1: characteristics of big government socialism is it inevitably involves fraud

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Speaker 1: and corruption because the bureaucracies simply can't keep up with

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Speaker 1: the drive and the entrepreneurship of the crooks. The crooks

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Speaker 1: have a lot bigger incentive to steal than the bureaucrat

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Speaker 1: has to protect. Well, what's your general sense about the

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Speaker 1: depth of fraud and the depth of dishonesty buried in

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Speaker 1: these programs.

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Speaker 2: It's massive, and it is because of the underlying incentives.

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Speaker 2: I mean the Medicaid program. At the core of the

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Speaker 2: Medicaid program, the federal government provides an open ended reimbursement

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Speaker 2: of state expenditures. So when states spend more, they get

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Speaker 2: more money from the federal government. And so the people

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Speaker 2: that were bankrolling the corruption and fraud in Minnesota, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the Minnesota taxpayers bore some of that, but the majority

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Speaker 2: of the cost was born out by the federal taxpayer.

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Speaker 2: It was people outside of the state of Minnesota. And

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Speaker 2: when you have that set of incentives, when the interest

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Speaker 2: groups pressure the state and say, look, you'd expand this program.

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Speaker 2: Don't view it as a welfare program. View it as

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Speaker 2: an economic stimulus for the state. You're going to increase

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Speaker 2: the size of it, and we'll have money pouring in

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Speaker 2: from outside the country. One of the problems that we found,

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Speaker 2: and really the Biden administration, a lot of the grew

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Speaker 2: out of COVID. It grew out of Biden administration orientation

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Speaker 2: to just maximize enrollment in these programs and abandon program integrity.

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Speaker 2: But you see one of the most profound papers that

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Speaker 2: Paragon wrote, it's called the Great Obamacare Enrollment Fraud. President

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Speaker 2: Biden signed legislation that made coverage fully subsidized for people

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Speaker 2: purchasing Obamacare in a narrow income band. What we saw

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Speaker 2: is massive fraud schemes that benefited agents, brokers, and insurers

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Speaker 2: by manipulating applicant information on the application to have it

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Speaker 2: appear that they had that income even though they didn't.

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Speaker 2: Because that led to so much more money flowing to

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Speaker 2: the health insurance companies and then back to these conglomerate

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Speaker 2: broker and agent. We estimate that about actually more than

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Speaker 2: twenty five percent of all Obamacare enrollment in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: five is improper, and many of these enrollees don't have

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Speaker 2: any idea that they're enrolled in the program. These schemes

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Speaker 2: got their information in order to sign them up for

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Speaker 2: an insurance card, and they're not aware of their enrollment.

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Speaker 2: They don't use the health insurance at all. And it's

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Speaker 2: just produced a windfall for big insurance, big broker, big

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Speaker 2: agent conglomerates, and those are the ones that lobby for

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Speaker 2: the status quo policy to continue. They've spent hundreds of

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Speaker 2: millions of dollars to continue to prop up a system

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Speaker 2: that is defrauding hard working American families.

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Speaker 1: It seems to me that people with the best of

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Speaker 1: intention set up what looks like it'll be a very

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Speaker 1: good program, and then somehow, in the process of writing

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Speaker 1: either the law or the regulations, it gets perverted into

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Speaker 1: the money going directly to an insurance company. And as

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Speaker 1: you point out, maybe as many as one on every

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Speaker 1: four people who are supposed getting covered by the COVID

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Speaker 1: benefit subsidy don't even realize that they have an insurance plan,

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Speaker 1: never used it. Mostly they're healthy, young people, and the

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Speaker 1: insurance company pocketed the money. It's a little surprising that

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Speaker 1: the insurance companies didn't kind of report this to the government.

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Speaker 2: So we quantified improper enrollment, and then we coined a

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Speaker 2: term phantom enrollment. So we're like, Okay, all these mrollees,

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Speaker 2: they're not aware that they're enrolled in coverage. We would

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Speaker 2: then expect that a lot of them wouldn't use any

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Speaker 2: healthcare services. The Biden administration refused to provide the information

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Speaker 2: on what we now call zero claim and rollees, people

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Speaker 2: covered but didn't use the plan, so no doctor visit,

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Speaker 2: no prescription, no lab test. Turns out that the growth

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Speaker 2: of zero claim and rollees went from four million in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one to almost twelve million people in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four, So forty percent of enrollees in twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: four in Obamacare they didn't use their health plan a

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Speaker 2: single time. Now, insurance companies knew this, They knew that

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Speaker 2: they were getting large number enrollees not using their coverage,

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Speaker 2: but they pointed the blame at the government. They said, well,

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Speaker 2: the government is the one responsible for these eligibility determinations.

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Speaker 2: We just accept all of the enrollees that the government's

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Speaker 2: enrollment system has sent our way.

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Speaker 1: The insurance coming to defenses, the government made me take

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Speaker 1: the money.

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Speaker 2: The government was responsible for the eligibility system you mentioned.

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Speaker 2: I testified in front of the Senate Finance Committee. I

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Speaker 2: also testified last week in front of the House Judiciary Committee,

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Speaker 2: the House issuy Committee. The witness next to me was

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Speaker 2: official from the Government Accountability Office. Starting in late twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four into early twenty twenty five, they created twenty

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Speaker 2: four fictitious applications, so they submitted them to the Obamacare exchanges.

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Speaker 2: So they were missing information that you would need to

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Speaker 2: do a proper eligibility determination. And do you know how

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Speaker 2: many of its twenty four that got approved for coverage

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Speaker 2: by the exchange twenty three. So you would think in

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Speaker 2: a normal government program there's going to be some error rates.

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Speaker 2: You might expect a handful to get through, But ninety

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Speaker 2: six percent of the fake applications that GEO created were

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Speaker 2: able to get enrolled in an exchange plan with a

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Speaker 2: subsidy that paid the entire cost. Now, the insurers, to

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Speaker 2: your point, they know what they're getting a lot of

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Speaker 2: enrollees from certain brokers and agents. It's impossible to do

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Speaker 2: that many in a given period of time. I think

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Speaker 2: they should be held financially culpable. It is so corrupt,

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Speaker 2: mister speaker, because the subsidy goes directly from the US

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Speaker 2: Treasury to the health insurance company, and because of the

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Speaker 2: Biden policy, the enrollee is paying nothing, so they're not

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Speaker 2: aware that they're even enrolled in the coverage. So the

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Speaker 2: insurance companies have gotten rich off this system without providing

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Speaker 2: any healthcare services on behalf of millions of these enrollees.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's sort of like a giant windfall profit disguised

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Speaker 1: as an insurance plan.

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Speaker 2: And the insurance companies. We support private health insurance. People

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Speaker 2: should have private health insurance, but we want private companies

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Speaker 2: to be competing for patients' own dollars so that they're

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Speaker 2: serving the patient. In Obamacare, in twenty twenty five, eighty

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Speaker 2: five percent of all of the premium revenue is coming

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Speaker 2: from taxpayers. So for insurance companies, the federal treasury is

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Speaker 2: their main client. It's not individual consumers and patients.

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Speaker 1: In that context, because the system is so out of way.

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Speaker 1: A friend of mine said, we actually need a new

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Speaker 1: bill entitled the Breathing Insurance Recipient Bill that if you're

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Speaker 1: not breathing, and we can't prove you real, then the

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Speaker 1: money doesn't go out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would endorse that bill. CMS has put out

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Speaker 2: information like there's people that are enrolled in multiple state

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Speaker 2: Medicaid programs simultaneously. There are individuals that are covered by

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Speaker 2: both Medicaid and buying Obamacare Exchange planned. So CMS released

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Speaker 2: data earlier this year that showed two point eight million

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Speaker 2: people are enrolled in multiple government programs when they should

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Speaker 2: only be enrolled in one.

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Speaker 1: That makes you want to because they're not directly getting money,

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Speaker 1: then maybe getting enrolled several times, so I guess they

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Speaker 1: have several insurance cards. The interesting to see what the

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Speaker 1: correlation is between fraud and Medicaid and Medicare and people

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Speaker 1: who are multiply enrolled, and if that then becomes sort

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Speaker 1: of an identity theft opportunity. Let me ask you, because

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Speaker 1: the system is currently so badly designed, the average family

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Speaker 1: of four will pay twenty six thousand dollars a year

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Speaker 1: in healthcare costs in twenty twenty six. The system is

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Speaker 1: so badly designed that we're asking families to buy the

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Speaker 1: equivalent of a small car every year. You've done a

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Speaker 1: lot of research on this. I'm curious, what do you

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Speaker 1: think are the two or three biggest places that we

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Speaker 1: should be examining in order to help reduce costs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. I'd encourage the listeners to

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Speaker 2: look up AI's chart of the Century. They look at

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Speaker 2: the rising prices by economic sector from two thousand to

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Speaker 2: the present and they compare that with the rise in

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Speaker 2: inflation and the rise in wages. And the number one

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Speaker 2: area of the economy that has seen price inflation over

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Speaker 2: the last twenty five years as hospitals. Hospital prices have

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Speaker 2: risen three times faster than inflation. And there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of government policies that push up hospital prices. A good

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Speaker 2: example is how the Medicare program works. So the Medicare

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Speaker 2: program pays a lot more for a service delivered in

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Speaker 2: a hospital than delivered in an independent physician's office. What

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Speaker 2: that leads to is incentives for hospitals and physicians for

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Speaker 2: the hospital to acquire the physician office, because then they

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Speaker 2: can just change the ownership on the office, change nothing

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Speaker 2: else about it, and build a much higher rate. So

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Speaker 2: it leads to less competition and more consolidation in the market.

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Speaker 2: And unfortunately medicare has so much pricing power because commercial

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Speaker 2: payers tend to link their prices to how Medicare pays.

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Speaker 2: So one of the main areas we need to fix

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Speaker 2: is Medicare payment policy that advantages hospitals over independent physician

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Speaker 2: offices and leads to consolidation, you know. And then there's

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Speaker 2: just a lot of complexity, a lot of this result

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Speaker 2: of all Obamacare. There's other existing government regulations that add

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Speaker 2: to complexity. But the more complexity, the harder it is

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Speaker 2: on the small guys because there's fixed costs in complying

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Speaker 2: with all of this regulation and administrative burden. So the

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Speaker 2: rise in administrative complexity that has come from just the

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Speaker 2: growth of government has advantaged big hospital systems over smaller entities.

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Speaker 2: And Obamacare and we talk about Bombacare's problems in the

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Speaker 2: exchange market, but one of the things we don't talk

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Speaker 2: about so much of a problem with Obamacare is how

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Speaker 2: it increased consolidation and what that does on the supply

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Speaker 2: side of the market. And the last one I would

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Speaker 2: mention is consumer control. Consumers control so little of the

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Speaker 2: financing in healthcare. Ninety percent of our spending in healthcare

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Speaker 2: goes through third party payers, you know. And President Trump,

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Speaker 2: I think is spot on where He says, we should

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Speaker 2: move federal subsidies away from funding the system, away from

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Speaker 2: going directly to health insurance companies, and give the money

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Speaker 2: to the patients, so that the health sector has to

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Speaker 2: respond to the patient and meet their needs rather than

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Speaker 2: whatever the bureaucracy. Thanks his best, which gets.

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Speaker 1: Back to my constant calling for transparency, because even if

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Speaker 1: you have the money in your pocket, unless you have

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Speaker 1: information about price and quality, you have no knowing where you're.

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Speaker 2: Buying twenty percent of the economy, and prices are hidden

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Speaker 2: from patients, and they're hidden from employers because employers do

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Speaker 2: a lot of the shopping in healthcare. You know, the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration put out regulations in twenty nineteen and twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty to compel prices from hospitals and from insurers, and

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Speaker 2: that is a work in progress. The Buiden administration didn't

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Speaker 2: prioritize it. It is going to be a priority for

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Speaker 2: the president in his second term. So I think it's

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Speaker 2: something that we definitely need to build on. Is getting

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Speaker 2: Americans the right to know prices before they obtained healthcare.

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Speaker 1: Well, if you're going to a sense of how big

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Speaker 1: the challenge is. In two thousand, health care costs thirteen

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Speaker 1: percent of the American economy. Now, in the last twenty

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Speaker 1: five years, our economy has grown dramatically, and health insurance

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Speaker 1: has gone up to eighteen percent of the US domestic product,

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Speaker 1: So it's actually growing much faster than the economy, and

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Speaker 1: in fact, there was a thirty eight percent increase in

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Speaker 1: its share of the economy from two thousand to twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four. It seems to me if we don't get

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Speaker 1: an ability to get total costs under control, to give

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Speaker 1: people real power over their own future, in their own lives,

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Speaker 1: this is just going to become totally unmanageable.

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Speaker 2: For American families. The health care inflation and the moro

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Speaker 2: on health insurance, it's crowding out wage increases. Most Americans

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Speaker 2: that don't get coverage through a government program, they get

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Speaker 2: coverage from their employer or employer of someone in their family.

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Speaker 2: And that is not a free gift from the employer

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Speaker 2: that comes out of the compensation that that employee would

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Speaker 2: have earned. So we're taking compensation out of wages into

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Speaker 2: health insurance benefits. And it's also vital that we get

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Speaker 2: a hold of this for the federal budget. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's two areas of the federal budget that are growing

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Speaker 2: as a percentage of the economy. Health care entitlement spending

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Speaker 2: and interest payments on the debt and interest payments on

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Speaker 2: the debt are a function of health care entitlement spending.

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Speaker 2: And these programs grew exponentially under the Biden administration. Abomacare

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Speaker 2: and Medicaid. We're out of control with the focus on

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Speaker 2: the Biden administration of enrollment in any cost and really

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Speaker 2: tons of corporate welfare coming into the program. So the

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Speaker 2: Trump administry and the One Big Beautiful Bill, like I

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Speaker 2: mentioned before, was really important in reforming aspects of the

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Speaker 2: Medicaid program. It is crucial over the next several years

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Speaker 2: that we restore some sanity to these federal health care programs.

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Speaker 1: It seems to me looking back that the Obamacare system,

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Speaker 1: the Affordable Care Act, which we all now understand, was

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Speaker 1: not affordable. It's actually the Unaffordable Care Act. But what

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Speaker 1: it's done is it's actually reduced the amount of competition.

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Speaker 1: Testimony that many of the county level exchange markets have

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Speaker 1: only two insurers who have seventy percent of enrollment. Ninety

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Speaker 1: seven percent of impatient hospitals lack meaningful competition. So you

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Speaker 1: now are building hospitals that don't have any competition, and

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Speaker 1: they're increasing their prices fifteen to thirty percent instead of

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Speaker 1: having competition drive costs down. I mean, you look at

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Speaker 1: Walmart or Target or Costco or any of the great

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Speaker 1: systems that deal with customers on a competitive basis, and

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Speaker 1: the pressure on them to be honest, to be efficient,

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Speaker 1: to be effective is just astonishing. And none of that

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Speaker 1: seems to apply to how we manage the largest single

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Speaker 1: sector of our economy, which is healthcare.

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Speaker 2: Normal economics apply to the healthcare sector too, and where

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Speaker 2: we've lost competition, and that's one of the clearest things

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Speaker 2: from the literature. When markets get consolidated, when you have

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Speaker 2: hospital systems merging together, when you have hospital systems taking

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Speaker 2: over doctors practices, that leads to upward pressure on prices,

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Speaker 2: and it actually also worsens quality because you need to

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Speaker 2: have competition for healthcare quality as well. Really, what we

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Speaker 2: need to do at a basic level is go through

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Speaker 2: all federal programs and any policies that incentivize consolidation and

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Speaker 2: reduce competition we need to reverse. There's also a lot

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Speaker 2: of state level policies that restrict competition, say one other

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Speaker 2: benefit of the One Big Beautiful Bill. It created a

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Speaker 2: Rural Health Transformation Fund, and that fund provides extra funding

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Speaker 2: for states if they take actions that open up competition

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Speaker 2: within their markets.

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Speaker 1: When you look at our various anti trust efforts, whether

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Speaker 1: it's media or manufacturing or other things, is there anything

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Speaker 1: comparable that looks at these huge hospital systems or these

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Speaker 1: huge insurance companies and measures whether or not their activities

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Speaker 1: will end up being anti competition and inevitably leading towards

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Speaker 1: monopolistic behavior.

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Speaker 2: It's a good question. So the Federal Trade Commission and

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Speaker 2: the Anti Trust Division at the Department of Justice, they

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Speaker 2: do I think some high quality work looking at mergers

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Speaker 2: and acquisitions. There's been mergers between big insurance companies that

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Speaker 2: have been blocked before. The problem is just the quantity

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Speaker 2: of the mergers and acquisitions and the capacity of the

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Speaker 2: anti trust agencies to really look at them. So it

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Speaker 2: is just so limited in the scope of what they

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Speaker 2: can look at. So I think it's an important tool

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Speaker 2: to have, but it's also limited in just the capacity

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Speaker 2: of the federal agencies versus the magnitude of the murders

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Speaker 2: and acquisitions that have been proposed.

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Speaker 1: You end up with some efforts to really look at

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Speaker 1: what's going on, and consistently those efforts produce astonishing numbers

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Speaker 1: of either people who are already dead but they're still

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Speaker 1: getting money, or people who are getting money from two

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Speaker 1: or three different places. I mean, are you surprised that

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Speaker 1: the degree to which the bureaucracy has broken down in

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Speaker 1: terms of being able to monitor and ensure honest activities.

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Speaker 2: It's a really good question because a lot of the

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Speaker 2: things you hear from the Democrats are, well, don't throw

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Speaker 2: the baby out with the bath water, just have better enforcement.

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Speaker 2: And the problem with that line of thinking is when

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Speaker 2: you have incentives that make cheating and frauds so profitable,

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Speaker 2: it's very hard the government. It's enforcement capabilities are limited.

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Speaker 2: They only have so many staff, they only have so

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Speaker 2: much that they're going to go after. In terms of enforcement,

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Speaker 2: in some places, you're just playing wlack a mole where

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Speaker 2: you're cutting down one problem, but you're going to see

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Speaker 2: a problem merge somewhere else. Fundamentally, with respect to the

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Speaker 2: Minnesota example that you brought up, if Minnesota was spending

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Speaker 2: its own money rather than the federal money, they would

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Speaker 2: have large incentives to crack down on the fraud and

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Speaker 2: abuse within the program, but when it's mostly federal spending,

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Speaker 2: they have incentives to just look the other way. Same

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Speaker 2: thing with what's happening on Obamacare. There's so much money

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Speaker 2: for the health insurers, for the brokers, for enrollees to

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Speaker 2: cheat when they all have large incentives to cheat and lie,

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Speaker 2: you're going to get that now. DOJ has come in

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Speaker 2: and there's been a couple of major suits to get

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Speaker 2: after some of these brokers. Two guys in Florida were

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Speaker 2: basically paying homeless individuals to give them their identification, They

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Speaker 2: enrolled them in Obamacare. Large subsidies then went to the insurers.

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Speaker 2: The brokers then got to cut and commission those two guys.

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Speaker 2: The amount of this subsidies that those two individuals produced

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Speaker 2: was two hundred and thirty million dollars. So you're going

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Speaker 2: to catch some cases like that and that money is gone,

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Speaker 2: That money has gone that will never be recovered.

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Speaker 1: The amount of mine you just described, how could you

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Speaker 1: physically do that?

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of money in these subsidies and

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Speaker 2: they went around pockets of South Florida and just enrolled

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Speaker 2: massive numbers of individuals, and some of them fictional like

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think the GAO report showed that there's

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Speaker 2: like no program integrity controls. Something shock you about how

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Speaker 2: bad government is it? To me, is shocking that ninety

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Speaker 2: six percent of fake applications got through.

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Speaker 1: That's why I was sitting here thinking, you almost can't

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Speaker 1: get your head around. That's why I think the Minnesota

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Speaker 1: case where you had in one city a billion dollars

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Speaker 1: being stolen in a very systematic way, and you had

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Speaker 1: a bureaucracy that just wrote the checks.

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Speaker 2: Think about that. If there's a five times increase in

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Speaker 2: autism diagnoses in a very short period of time, and

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Speaker 2: so the Minnesota example, they were paying parents to have

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Speaker 2: kids diagnosed for autism because then that led the provider

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Speaker 2: to be able to bill higher amounts. The bureaucracy, if

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Speaker 2: they are sophisticated and they say they're so good now

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Speaker 2: they should be able to analyze all this data. If

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Speaker 2: you're having a five times increase in autism diagnoses and

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Speaker 2: then a massive spending on all of these specific services

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Speaker 2: for kids that have autism, that should have been caught.

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Speaker 2: It should have been caught within a few months of

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Speaker 2: that happening. Another example with Medicare a couple years ago,

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Speaker 2: they paid for all these catheters, huge search like thousand

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Speaker 2: percent increase in Medicare spending on Cather. They never went

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Speaker 2: to patients. They should have caught all of this stuff

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Speaker 2: early on.

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Speaker 1: It's just wild. Look, this is a huge area, largest

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Speaker 1: single sector of the economy. You will never balance the

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Speaker 1: federal budget until you hit this under control. And it's

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Speaker 1: just wrong. It also gives the American people and more

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Speaker 1: inadequate and a weaker health system and healthcare system. And

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Speaker 1: the work you're doing at the Paragon Institute, I think

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Speaker 1: it is a significant step towards opening up the facts

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Speaker 1: and allowing the Congress and the President to really talk

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Speaker 1: about big, serious reforms. And Brian, I want to thank

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Speaker 1: you for joining me. I want to encourage our listeners

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Speaker 1: to keep following the work you're doing by visiting your

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Speaker 1: website at Paragon Institute dot org. And course ONO wish

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Speaker 1: you a very very merry Christmas.

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Speaker 2: Merry Christmas, mister Speaker. Really is a privilege to be

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Speaker 2: with you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Brian Blaise. New Chworld is

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Speaker 1: produced by Gamish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer

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Speaker 1: is Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork

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Speaker 1: for the show, who's created by Steve Penley. Special thanks

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Speaker 1: to the team at Gamish three sixty. If you've been

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Speaker 1: enjoying New World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 1: and both rate us with five stars and give us

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Speaker 1: a review so others can learn what it's all about.

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Speaker 1: Join me on substat at Ginghish three sixty dot net.

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Speaker 1: I'm new Gingwich. This is Neutroble