1 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb. 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 2: And I am Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday, so we 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 2: are heading into the vault for an older stuff to 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: Blow your Mind. This one originally aired January twenty third, 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, and it's part three of our series 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 2: on the diamond Let's go. 8 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, the production of iHeartRadio. 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 10 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: is Robert. 11 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 2: Lamb and I am Joe McCormick, and we're back with 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: part three in our series on Diamonds. Now, if you 13 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 2: haven't heard parts one and two, you might want to 14 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: regress through time listen to those first. But there's a 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: no strict continuity to preserve in this series, so if 16 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 2: you'd rather just listen to this one first, that's fine too. 17 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: Brief recap of the previous episode it's in part one. 18 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: We talked mainly about the idea that first got me 19 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 2: interested in covering diamonds, which is the question of whether diamonds, 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 2: especially in the form of crushed up diamond powder, are poisonous. 21 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: This has long been a belief present in multiple cultures 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 2: that shattered diamonds or diamond powder are lethal if swallowed, 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: and we talked about some weird and fascinating stories of 24 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,639 Speaker 2: attempted diamond poisonings from history. We looked at the question 25 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 2: of whether diamonds are actually poisonous or not. The answer 26 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,839 Speaker 2: we landed on was probably not, and at least one 27 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 2: major author from modern times on the subject downplayed this 28 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: as a myth with no evidence behind it. But we've 29 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: also never found really strong evidence that diamond powder is safe, 30 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: so personally, I'm still saying probably better not. 31 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 4: To ingest it. 32 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: In part two of the series, we talked about how 33 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 2: diamonds form and how they're brought to the surface. We 34 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: talked about some of the physics properties of diamonds, such 35 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: as the fact that they are the hardest naturally occurring 36 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 2: material on Earth, and how the property of hardness differs 37 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: from other properties like toughness, leading to the strange fact 38 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: that you generally can't scratch or cut a diamond with 39 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: anything other than another diamond, yet you can shatter a 40 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 2: diamond with a regular steel hammer. We also talked about 41 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 2: some wonderful legends of diamonds, including the legendary Valley of 42 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: jewels associated with the stories of figures like Sinbad and 43 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: Alexander the Great, as well as some of the significance 44 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: of diamonds in Hindu iconography. And today we're back to 45 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: talk about diamonds once again. 46 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: All right, Well, what's our first stop on the diamond 47 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: express here, Joe. 48 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: Well, I got interested in a specific question about diamonds 49 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 2: from the starting point of a scene, a movie scene 50 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 2: you talked about in part two, I think, which is 51 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 2: a scene in Superman three where Christopher as Superman picks 52 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 2: up a piece of coal. I think he's actually like 53 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: standing at a coal mine. He picks up a piece 54 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 2: of coal and then crushes it into a diamond in 55 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 2: his fist. 56 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: Completely cut, just already beautiful, ready to go. 57 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, and huge, by the way. 58 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: But this connects to something that, strangely is a one 59 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 2: of these well known facts that may well not be 60 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: a fact, and that well known nonfactual fact is that 61 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: diamonds are generally formed in the ground out of coal. 62 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: I have encountered a number of sources arguing that this is, 63 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: for the most part not the case, that diamonds are 64 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: generally not formed from coal, though this may be less 65 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: of a settled question than it first appears. 66 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 4: I don't know. 67 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: We might examine that question in more depth if we 68 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 2: happen to come back in another episode and talk about 69 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: diamonds some more. But this got me thinking about comparisons 70 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: between diamonds and coal. There are reasons that it would 71 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: make sense to assume diamonds are just a sort of 72 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: continuation of the coal forming process. So diamonds are made 73 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: of pure carbon, and coal is made of carbon. Coal 74 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: forms deep underground, diamonds form deep underground. It just seems 75 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 2: natural to think that you start with ancient plant matter 76 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: or organic matter of some kind, probably decaying plant matter, 77 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: and some kind of ancient swamp. It gets buried, It 78 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: first turns into peat, and then turns into coal, and 79 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 2: then given enough time and pressure, it turns into a diamond. Now, 80 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: for the most part, it seems like this probably isn't 81 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 2: the case. Most diamonds seem to be older than most 82 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 2: coal and formed deeper down in the Earth's mantle then 83 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 2: you would normally find deposits of coal. But there are 84 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: these obvious physical similarities that they are both chunks of 85 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 2: carbon that come out of the earth. But a difference 86 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 2: to point out is that while diamonds are pretty close 87 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: to pure elemental carbon, well over ninety nine percent carbon 88 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: by mass, coal has a lot of different stuff in it. 89 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 2: The main constituent of coal is usually carbon, but its 90 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 2: purity is more variable in the range of like forty 91 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: to ninety percent carbon, with other major elements like hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, 92 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: and sulfur making up the rest of the mass. But anyways, 93 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 2: since you know the main thing people do with coal 94 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 2: is burn it, it raised the question can you burn 95 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 2: a diamond? 96 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: I mean, as we've discussed, it would seem to just 97 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: run counter to, if nothing else, the idea of the diamond. 98 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 4: Right, it's indestructible. Right. 99 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 2: The Greek and Latin word used for the diamond is adamas, 100 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 2: meaning unbreakable, indestructible. Well, I found this question addressed directly 101 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 2: in several sources. One that I want to cite is 102 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 2: an excellent blog post from twenty fourteen by a West 103 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: Texas A and M professor of physics named Christopher S. 104 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 2: Baird and so to start with a direct answer to 105 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: the question and then explained from there. Yes, diamonds are 106 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 2: indeed a carbon fuel source, and they can in fact 107 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 2: be burned, but they don't burn as easily as coal. 108 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: So let's expand on that a bit. Fire or combustion, 109 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 2: as we've talked about on the show before, is a 110 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 2: rapid reaction in which the molecules of a fuel source 111 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: in the presence of heat, rapidly combined with oxygen, producing 112 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 2: additional heat and light in the process. So in order 113 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: to have fire, it's commonly said that you need three ingredients. 114 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 2: We know the equation now right, it's fuel, oxygen, and heat, 115 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 2: and you can prevent or extinguish a fire by robbing 116 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: it of any of these necessary ingredients. Now that fuel 117 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: can be a number of different things. We know, for example, 118 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: that pure hydrogen gas is flammable. It burns. But Baird 119 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: mentions in his blog posts that the most common form 120 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 2: of combustion that we encounter in the world world is 121 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 2: carbon combustion. So most of the fuel sources we burn 122 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 2: in day to day life are carbon based fuel sources. 123 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 2: That means carbon is the fuel in the fire equation. 124 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: So you get a carbon based substance, you get it 125 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: hot enough in the presence of oxygen, and the carbon 126 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: atoms will start to break their bonds with one another, 127 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: and with atoms of other elements in the material to 128 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: instead form bonds with oxygen from the air, and this 129 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: combination of carbon and oxygen is the reason that the 130 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 2: main byproducts of burning carbon based fuels are carbon oxygen 131 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 2: molecules like carbon dioxide CO two and carbon monoxide coo. 132 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 2: So one different way to think of building a fire, say, 133 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 2: is making carbon dioxide. That is what the biggest part 134 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 2: of what this reaction is doing. 135 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 4: Now. 136 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 2: In fuel sources that have other substances in addition to carbon, 137 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: there are additional byproducts. For example, fossil fuels that also 138 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: have hydrogen content will also produce the byproduct of water 139 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: vapor as the hydrogen reacts with oxygen to form H 140 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: two oz. But to come back specifically to carbon burning, 141 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: to carbon combustion, the way it works is that again 142 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 2: you have to get a carbon fuel source up to 143 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 2: a certain temperature for the reaction with oxygen to start. 144 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 2: That's the ignition temperature. But fortunately you don't have to 145 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: keep applying external heat because combustion is what's known as 146 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 2: an exothermic process. The chemical reaction releases its own heat, 147 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 2: generally more heat than you put in to begin with, 148 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 2: and this heat that's released causes more carbon bonds to 149 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 2: break and allows more carbon to combine with oxygen, and 150 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 2: so on and so on until one of the ingredients 151 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 2: in the fire equation is depleted or removed. But this 152 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 2: self sustaining exothermic property is the main reason carbon combustion 153 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: is so useful to humans. It's a net energy source 154 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: for us. You invest a little bit of energy up front, 155 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: and then the fuel and the atmosphere do the rest, 156 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 2: letting you take out more energy than you put in. 157 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 2: But this brings us back to this question. Since a 158 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 2: diamond is made of almost pure carbon, wouldn't it seem 159 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: to be an almost perfect fuel source. And at the 160 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 2: same time, it still seems counterintuitive to think that a 161 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 2: gemstone could burn up in a fire. I think because 162 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 2: we think of a diamond as a type of rock, 163 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: and in our regular experience, rocks do not burn. 164 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's that's totally the case, like 165 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: the idea of the diamond as indestructible. But also when 166 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: you you know, at least dip your toes in some 167 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: of the science about like high heat, high pressure formation, 168 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like the kind of thing you'd be 169 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: able to throw into a furnace, even if we're having 170 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: to imagine some sort of like sort of sci fi 171 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: furnace to drive your diamond powered train across the surface 172 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: of a distant planet. 173 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: Right, But despite these intuitions, diamonds are carbon based products, 174 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 2: and they do burn. And this, in fact brings us 175 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 2: back to a historical figure that we mentioned in the 176 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: previous episode, the eighteenth century French chemist Antoine Lavoisier, who 177 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: we talked previously about how he is credited with proving 178 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: that diamonds are made of nearly pure carbon. Apparently a 179 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 2: major piece of evidence that Lavoisier produced in order to 180 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 2: support that conclusion was an experiment showing that diamond could 181 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: be burned and that the byproduct of its combustion was 182 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 2: almost entirely carbon dioxide. Now, on the fact that diamonds 183 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 2: can burn, often, when I learned something like this, I 184 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 2: like to see if I can see it with my 185 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: own eyes. Not that I don't believe it in this case, 186 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 2: it seems like a well established fact, but just kind 187 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: of to have increased confidence in knowing what it looks 188 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: like and so forth. So I went looking for some 189 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: trustworthy video of a diamond burning, and I did, indeed, 190 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 2: find several. A good one was a video put out 191 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 2: by the Royal Institution for their twenty twelve Christmas Lectures, 192 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 2: in which they demonstrate the burning of graphite, which is 193 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: also made of carbon, but far less compressed than a diamond, 194 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 2: and also the burning of a diamond and rob I've 195 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 2: attached some pictures for you to look at here in 196 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 2: the outline, though of course we'll describe them for you 197 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: at home. 198 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 4: This year. 199 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 2: Is a diamond burning shortly after it has been ignited 200 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 2: in a glass chamber with a supply of flowing oxygen. 201 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 2: And one thing I would note about it in the 202 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 2: early parts of the burning process is that I can't 203 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 2: see what looks like a traditional visible flame, you know, 204 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 2: sort of the upward rising flame like you would see 205 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 2: coming off of a campfire. Instead, I see what looks 206 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: like the diamond glowing like a coal glowing on a 207 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: charcoal grill after the flames die down. Except with those 208 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: coals they usually glow a kind of dull orange. Here 209 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 2: this is glowing ten times than any piece of coal 210 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 2: I've ever seen, and with a whiter shade of light 211 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 2: than I'm used to seeing in charcoal, more of a 212 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 2: yellow white glow than an orange. 213 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, if anything, this reminds me of special effects 214 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 1: I've seen in movies and video games, like when I 215 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: don't know, Marvel's captain Marvel is about to go supernova 216 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: and her flesh starts glowing with this kind of like 217 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: flameless intensity, that sort of thing. But of course, this 218 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: is not a Marvel movie, this is not a video game. 219 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: This is real life. 220 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so there's this glowing imminence coming off of it. However, 221 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 2: I did notice that later in the experiment they show 222 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 2: there is what looks like a more traditional flame, mostly 223 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 2: blue in color, coming off of the diamond, And I'm 224 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 2: not sure why that was visible only toward the end 225 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 2: of the burning experiment. Maybe it was just an issue 226 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 2: of like lighting or camera angle, or maybe it had 227 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 2: to do with changing conditions in the chamber as the 228 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 2: diamond burns. Maybe I don't know, something about temperature, oxygen 229 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: flow or something like that. But experiments like this confirm 230 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 2: that you absolutely can burn diamonds, So that raises the 231 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 2: question should we capitalize on this fuel source. Rob, you 232 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 2: suggested the idea of like diamond punk technology earlier, you know, 233 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: like run a diamond burning steam powered locomotive or diamond 234 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: fired electric power plants for a few reasons, a couple 235 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 2: of which may be obvious, one little less obvious. I 236 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 2: think that would not work out. Obvious point number one, 237 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 2: diamonds are expensive and rare compared to other carbon fuel sources, 238 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: of course, would not make economic sense to burn them 239 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 2: as fuel. Point number two, which I think is less obvious. 240 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 2: Though diamonds do burn, they don't burn as easily as 241 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: fuels like coal and wood. According to Baird, the reason 242 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 2: for this is the strength of the bonds between the 243 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 2: carbon atoms found in the diamond cubic. So you remember 244 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 2: last time we talked about the the crystal structure of 245 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 2: the diamond in which each so it's like a three 246 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 2: dimensional structure that is linked in all directions, where each 247 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 2: carbon atom is attached to four other carbon atoms with 248 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: strong covalent bonds, meaning each of the carbon atoms is 249 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 2: sharing pairs of electrons with its neighbor. And these are 250 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 2: extremely strong bonds and the dense structure of atoms that 251 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 2: is created within the diamond. These are the reasons why 252 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 2: the diamond is so physically hard and nearly impossible to cut. 253 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 2: These strong bonds and tight structure mean that it takes 254 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 2: a lot of energy to break carbon atoms free from 255 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 2: the diamond crystal. Now, in the case of physical pressure, friction, 256 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 2: and impact, this explains the diamond's resilience, and in the 257 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: case of combustion, it means that a diamond has a 258 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: much higher ignition temperature than other carbon based fuels. And 259 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: I've seen different numbers for the temperature at which diamond burns. 260 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 2: I guess, as with other fuels, this would depend on 261 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 2: environmental conditions as well, like the concentration of oxygen and 262 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: the surrounding air and things like that. But the number 263 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 2: that Baird gives is that a diamond burns in regular 264 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 2: air at about nine hundred degrees celsius, which is about 265 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: sixteen fifty fahrenheit. And for a point of comparison, Baird 266 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: says that the ignition temperature of normal wood in atmosphere 267 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 2: is only about three hundred degrees celsius. So there is 268 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 2: a major difference in the amount of heat you need 269 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 2: to put in at the beginning to get a diamond 270 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: fire started, though the heat necessary would be reduced in 271 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 2: an oxygen rich environment. And then the other thing is 272 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: a diamond fire needs a rich environment of oxygen to 273 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 2: continue burning, so you got to give it plenty of 274 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: oxygen in order to keep powering that reaction of the 275 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: oxygen in the air with the carbon. However, though it 276 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: is much harder to burn in coal or wood, Bird 277 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: does say you can burn or scorch a diamond with 278 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 2: a regular flame, especially if it's really hot and has 279 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 2: plenty of oxygen. He mentions that jewelers sometimes have to 280 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: be careful if they're using a blowtorch to mold metal 281 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 2: around a diamond, since the diamond could technically burn. Though 282 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: it seems like from other things I was reading, without 283 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: supplemental oxygen, a diamond typically won't burst into flames and 284 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 2: disappear into smoke. It will instead, like show signs of 285 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 2: damage directly on the surface, which could have increased opacity, 286 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: making the diamond look sort of cloudy on the burned surface. Rabi, 287 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 2: I found an image of this that I attached for 288 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 2: you to look at. Here there are parts that are 289 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 2: of this. This is a faceted cut diamond, and it 290 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: has parts that appear to be burn marks where it 291 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 2: looks kind of cloudy and opaque, whereas the rest of 292 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 2: it is very sparkly and clear. 293 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: Interesting. 294 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 2: Okay, now there's another thing that Baird does not mention, 295 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 2: but I was also wondering about with the difference in 296 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 2: the burning in how easy it is to burn something 297 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 2: like coal versus something like diamonds, which would be the 298 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 2: porosity of the material, because if you have a less dense, 299 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 2: more porous material, it seems that it is easier for 300 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: oxygen to get in and surround the carbon atoms and 301 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: more easily react with them. Whereas a diamond is very dense, 302 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: very tight structure, you're essentially going to have all of 303 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 2: the reaction with oxygen happening right at the surface layer. 304 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 2: Another question this raises I assume this would be the case, 305 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 2: is that a diamond powder would burn much more easily 306 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 2: than a solid diamond. This is true though of most 307 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: flammable things. You know, most of anything that you could 308 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 2: set on fire in a solid form will combust much 309 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 2: more rapidly and easily in a powdered form. And as 310 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 2: a final point thinking about burning diamonds, though, the interesting 311 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,479 Speaker 2: thing is that so they are a carbon based fuel source, 312 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 2: and this does mean that even if diamonds were cheap 313 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 2: burning them as fuel, if we wanted to create that 314 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 2: diamond punk world with the diamond fired steamships and the locomotives. 315 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 2: This would be yet another energy source that would result 316 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 2: in adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, which of course 317 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 2: is not exactly something we need to be adding to 318 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 2: the menu of energy options in the world today. Though, 319 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: I was trying to see if I could come up 320 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 2: with an estimate on this, and I did not get anywhere. 321 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 2: I suspect even if we burned all the free diamonds 322 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 2: in the world, it would probably release very little carbon 323 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 2: compared to what's already being emitted from daily fossil fuel use. 324 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 2: But like I said, I could not come up with 325 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 2: solid numbers on that. If any excellent nerds in the 326 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 2: audience want to draw up an estimate, we invite your efforts. 327 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 2: What would be the carbon footprint of a brief attempt 328 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 2: by Planet Earth to go diamond punk? 329 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be interested to hear that. Also, one of 330 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: their yestmates about how long it take to burn up 331 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: all the diamonds, like imagine the scenario. I was just 332 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: trying to come with wine with even a very far 333 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: vetter scenario, and which is what makes sense. Let's imagine 334 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 1: Outer Limits. Ask super advanced alien society just decides they 335 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,880 Speaker 1: want to teach humanity a lesson, so they gift us 336 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: this device. And this device is a furnace attached to 337 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 1: a doomsday weapon, and it's pretty simple. All we have 338 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: to do is keep the fire in this furnace burning, 339 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: and as long as the fire is burning, the doomsday 340 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: device will not go off. But the furnace will only 341 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: burn diamonds. You can only put diamonds in it. So 342 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: that leaves the people of Earth to figure out how 343 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: they are going to collect set diamonds, at what rate 344 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: they are going to put them in the furnace, and indeed, 345 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: how long will they be able to keep this up 346 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: before there are no more diamonds to burn and the 347 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: device goes off. 348 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 2: This feels like a science fiction variation on the plot 349 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 2: of Speed. 350 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it is kind of a yeah yeah, 351 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: you can imagine a Dennis Hopper. Dennis Hopper is the 352 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: alien in this imaginary Outer Limits episode. 353 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 2: I really like this idea. Can you imagine though, if 354 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 2: aliens actually did come to Earth, we went to meet 355 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 2: their ambassador and it's Dennis Hopper. That just would not 356 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 2: inspire confidence. 357 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: Well, it depends on which what part of Dennis Hopper's 358 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: filmography they're drawing from. Like the younger Dennis Hopper, you know, 359 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: there are a lot of roles there where he was 360 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: more of the relatable leading man. It's only you know, 361 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: later in life where he tended to play on the 362 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: whole more deplorable characters. 363 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah. 364 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 2: By the way, I'm not insulting Dennis Hoppers. I just 365 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 2: been like I was thinking, we are greeted by the 366 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 2: you know, the photo journalist and Apocalypse now or something. 367 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a knack for playing often unhinged characters 368 00:20:48,240 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: for sure. All right, well, let's return once more to 369 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: the ancient world. Particularly, let's get let's get into some 370 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: concepts concerning diamonds in ancient Greece and ancient Rome. 371 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 2: Oh boy, I think we got some good stuff on 372 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 2: this one today. Now briefly to refresh about some stuff 373 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 2: we talked about in the last episode we did, I 374 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 2: think bring up Plenty of the Elders references to diamonds 375 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 2: in his work. Remember, Plenty of the Elder is a 376 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 2: first century ce Roman author who compiled a very important, 377 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 2: influential sort of encyclopedia of what was known to you know, 378 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 2: to his people at the time, known as the Natural History, 379 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 2: and Plenty I think is the very last volume of 380 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 2: Plenty's Natural History that was devoted to minerals and gemstones. 381 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 2: And Plenty used in his work a term that was 382 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 2: derived from the Greek called adamas, which earlier sources used 383 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 2: to refer to a variety of materials that were considered 384 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 2: very hard or maybe indestructible, but from description were clearly 385 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 2: not diamonds. Plenty confusingly uses this term to refer to 386 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 2: a list of different materials, some of which, it does seem, 387 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 2: are diamonds, but maybe others are not. 388 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 3: So. 389 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 2: For example, a footnote in the one of the translations 390 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 2: of Plenty we often turn to, which is available online, 391 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 2: the boas Stock and Riley translation, that is a footnote 392 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 2: saying that the author of this footnote thought that Plenty 393 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 2: was probably not familiar with actual diamonds. However, this does 394 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 2: not seem to be the conclusion of Jack Ogden in 395 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 2: his book Diamonds the King of Gems, which we have 396 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 2: referred to a few times on this series already. Ogden 397 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 2: does seem to think that in some of these instances 398 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 2: Plenty may be talking about diamonds. 399 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so let's get into some of this. So, 400 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: drawing again from Ogden. Also, Ogden, along with historian Brian 401 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: Fagan in a source I referenced in the last episode, 402 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: also get into this a little bit. But the introduction 403 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: of diamond tipped engraving stones during the early Roman period 404 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: seems to have transformed the world of lapidary, allowing even 405 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: the hardest gemstones to be drilled and engrave. So again 406 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: we have to remember that there's this interesting dual nature 407 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: to the diamond of the ancient world, where it's used, 408 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: seemingly at times initially as just a raw material to 409 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: work gemstones that were already popular colored gems, and then 410 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: there's this transition into realizing that diamonds on their own 411 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: are beautiful and are are also suitable to be considered gemstones. 412 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 2: Right, so in many cases it's thought of as like 413 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 2: a useful industrial material before it's thought of as a 414 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,959 Speaker 2: just beautiful decorative gem on its own. 415 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: And this is important because to understand where we're going 416 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: to go next, you need to realize that, yes, it 417 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: does make sense to sometimes want to destroy a diamond 418 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: in these even in the ancient world, because again not 419 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: all diamonds are going to be suitable for working into 420 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: some sort of valuable stone, but also there are going 421 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 1: to be uses for diamond fragments and diamond powders. If 422 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: you are working stones other gymstones and preparing them to 423 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: use in various bits of jewelry. 424 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 2: And so forth right, it's kind of an unbeatable abrasive. 425 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, And this brings us to the idea of softening 426 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: your diamonds up by soaking them in goat blood. Not 427 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: just any goat blood, but the blood of a he goat. 428 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 2: The blood of she goats will not do yes. 429 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: This is mentioned by both Plenty of the Elder and 430 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: later by basanias this is the yeah, the idea that 431 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: while the diamond is hard and resist to destruction, get 432 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: yourself a little goat blood he goat blood, Let it 433 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: soak in there, and that will put it. That'll soften 434 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: things up enough that you can break it up and 435 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: get what you need out of it. Now, Ogden points 436 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: out that plenty source on this is uncertain and it 437 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be based on anything drawn from Indian 438 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: diamond tradition. So again, remember India is like the really 439 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: the hot area for initial diamond culture, and it seems 440 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,439 Speaker 1: to sort of flow out of India into other cultures, 441 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: Mediterranean cultures, and as we'll discuss, also into Chinese culture 442 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: and so forth. So this idea doesn't seem to directly 443 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,360 Speaker 1: relate to anything known to exist in Indian diamond traditions, 444 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: but it doesn't go away after it has been brought up. 445 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: So there are writings about it from the fourteen hundreds onward, 446 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: with descriptions of goat blood being used to soak and 447 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: soften diamonds. In time, there were even writings on what 448 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: sort of diet your he goat would need if you 449 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: wanted to use its blood to soften up your diamonds. 450 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 4: Wow, that's elaborate. 451 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: None other than Roger Bacon refuted this idea during the 452 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: thirteenth century, though I guess not everyone listened to Roger 453 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: Bacon because the idea seemed to persist. And Ogden writes that, yeah, 454 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: ultimately we have no idea where this came from, but 455 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: it may be linked to various blood sacrificed rights connected 456 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: to diamonds, much in the same way that such rights 457 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: were associated with ancient metallurgy. He also speculates and This 458 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: is where it gets really really interesting that maybe gem 459 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: cutters would have needed to crush diamonds to produce chips 460 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: for their work, like we were saying, and a working 461 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: medium or paste would be useful to keep those bits 462 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: of diamond from flying all over the place. I think 463 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: we'd touched on this in the last episode or the 464 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: one before it. Like when you do destroy a diamond, 465 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: there's often this observation that just like it almost vanishes, 466 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,160 Speaker 1: it turns into this dust. It's just hard to collec 467 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: it just goes everywhere. 468 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 2: Right, So the idea is that if you could pound 469 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 2: or smash your diamond within the matrix of like a thick, 470 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 2: sticky liquid substance, that might help prevent some of it 471 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 2: from being lost, just like flying off the table and 472 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 2: going all over the place. 473 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: Right right, So what might you use? Might you have 474 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: used something like goat's blood? Ogden So points out that 475 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: it's possible that they were, that people use something that 476 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: maybe wasn't blood but contain blood, or maybe just looked 477 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,479 Speaker 1: like blood. He cites a Sanskrit recipe for medicinal diamond 478 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: dust that involves first encasing the diamond in a mixture 479 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: of beaten cotton plant and beetlenut, which has a red coloration. 480 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: Then you roast it several times and then you're able 481 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: to break it up. 482 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting. You know, I've before heard of the 483 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: I think I've heard of the juice of a beetlenut 484 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: being compared to blood or looking like blood in some instances. So, yeah, 485 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 2: I wonder if that could be a mistaken identity at 486 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 2: a distance there. 487 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe there are cases of Europeans encountering peoples 488 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: that were chewing beetle nut and they would describe all 489 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: that their mouths were bloody, and it's like, not that 490 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,360 Speaker 1: their mouths weren't bloody, they're just chewing petal nut. Yeah, 491 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: but anyway, Ogden notes that lead was also used in 492 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: the breaking of diamonds, something that took on airs of magic, 493 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: since the lead is of course very soft and diamonds 494 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: are very hard. But yeah, while diamonds are hard and 495 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: have long been used to cut other gems, as we've 496 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: been discussing, they're also quite brittle, and one means of 497 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: breaking them and retaining the fragments was to first encase 498 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: the diamond in lead before striking it with a hammer. 499 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: Wax or a mixture made from horn was often used 500 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: in some traditions, with a later idea connected to another 501 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: tantalizing idea that diamond might be broken with a ram's horn. 502 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 2: Huh. I wonder if that's true. I mean, the diamond 503 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 2: can be shattered with a sufficiently powerful blow. But every 504 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 2: thing I've read about and seen that was used for 505 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 2: that purpose would be like a strong metal hammer, you know, 506 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 2: like a steel hammer or something like that. Would a 507 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 2: ram's horn be hard enough? 508 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 4: I don't know. 509 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: Well, I think maybe the idea is probably not. But 510 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: in sort of the game of telephone and myth making, 511 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: the idea of using a mixture with ground horn would 512 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: be the thing you'd use. And then it gets you know, 513 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: in the same way that eventually you're talking about just 514 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: soaking your diamonds in blood or in this case, beating 515 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: it with a horn. You know, it's just it becomes 516 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: this sort of magical, cryptic thing, but it perhaps has 517 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: a connection to some sort of actual practice. Now turning 518 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: our attention to ancient China. First one, I just mentioned 519 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: some some points that Ogden makes about diamonds in China. 520 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: He points out that research has indicated that diamonds may 521 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: have been used to polish nephrite jade from a very 522 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,160 Speaker 1: early period in Chinese history. I was looking at the 523 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: source on this. It's from Lu at all, the earliest 524 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: use of corundum and diamond in prehistoric China. This is 525 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: from two thousand and five the author's right quote. We 526 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: also present physical evidence that later Langzhou axes. This would 527 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: have been around twenty five hundred BCE. This was a 528 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: neolithic jade culture. Quote may made from the same previously 529 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: undescribed rock whose most abundant component is corundum, where were 530 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: polished to a mirror like finish with a diamond abrasive. 531 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: Ogden points out that we have fifth century CE Chinese 532 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: writings describing diamond set finger rings worn by foreigners and 533 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: sent to China from India and in one case from Java. 534 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: Java was apparently a source for Chinese diamonds prior to 535 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: European involvement in Java during the seventeenth century. There's a 536 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: gold ring with a set diamond that was found that in 537 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy excavation of a fifth century CE Nanjing tomb. Diamonds, 538 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: of course would have traveled on the Silk Road and 539 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: in an interesting connection of technologies again, thinking about the 540 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: Silk Road, thinking about various materials and technologies and bits 541 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: of culture traveling throughout Eurasia along these trade routes. He 542 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: points out that an Italian innovation of a crank flywheel 543 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: belt driven grinding apparatus for working gymstones was seemingly based 544 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: on silk spinning technology from China, and this would have 545 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: been adopted during. 546 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 4: The thirteenth century. Oh interesting. 547 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, different different aims, different technological approaches 548 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: that end up speaking to each other across the Silk Road. Now, 549 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: I was also looking around some other sources. I was 550 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 1: looking at an older text, The Diamond, a Study in 551 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: Chinese and Hellenistic Folklore, Volume fifteen, issues one through two 552 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: by German anthropologist bertheled Law for it is from nineteen seventeen, 553 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: but he was a pretty big big deal. He pointed 554 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: out in this book that there were song dynasty tellings 555 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: of the Valley of Gems. That story we talked about 556 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: in the last episode, in which you have your diamonds 557 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: down there at the bottom of this deep canyon or valley, 558 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: and the only way to get them is, of course 559 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: to throw meat down there. The meat will stick to 560 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: the diamonds, or the diamonds will stick to the meat rather, 561 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: and then giant birds will swoop down in there, collect 562 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: the meat and bring that meat up to the surface, 563 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: or they'll eat the meat, and you have to kill 564 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: the birds and then harvest the diamonds from their stomachs. 565 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 2: And often it was said that there were monsters of 566 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 2: some kind or like venomous snakes down at the bottom 567 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 2: of the valley, which is a reason you can't go 568 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 2: down there and get the diamonds yourself. 569 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: Right, And so this is a very infectious story. It 570 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: spreads and throughout diamond cultures, and it spreads with diamonds 571 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: to other cultures, and so it's not surprising that there 572 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: are also tellings of it in Chinese traditions. But the 573 00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: versions that Lafer brings up here mentions that, okay, in 574 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: these tellings, the great eagles that feast on the diamond 575 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: studied meat in the valley, they just eventually poop out 576 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: the diamonds, so they're not being they're not there's no 577 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: driving them away from the meat and getting the diamonds. 578 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: There's no looking for there, there's no killing the birds 579 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: and then digging them out of their bodies. No, you 580 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: just have to go out to the Gobi desert because 581 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,479 Speaker 1: that is where they are dropping their diamond filled poops. 582 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 2: Wow, that seems so much simpler than having to fight 583 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 2: the bird and kill it. Yeah, just scour the poop fields. 584 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: You know, you're not hurting the birds, you're not stressing 585 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: them out, you're not having having to fight a giant 586 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: bird that's eating snakes the size of elephants and so forth. Now, 587 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: this of course got me wondering. It's like, well, why 588 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: the Gobi Desert of all places? You know, I was 589 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: wanting to line up with reality at all. Sadly, Lafer 590 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: doesn't really mention the Gobi Desert at all elsewhere in 591 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: this particular text. Certainly some precious minerals are found in 592 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: the Gobi region, though I've not read about diamonds being 593 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: on that list. Perhaps they are. Perhaps I'm missing something 594 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: it's worth stressing. As Laffer does though that the original 595 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: Song Dynasty source on this wrote that he was not 596 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 1: sure if the story was true or not, so it's 597 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: another case of someone passing along this story, but also 598 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: being like, I cannot vouch for this, but this is 599 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: what has been told to me, I was. 600 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 2: Just looking at various maps of known diamond deposits and 601 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 2: diamond mines in the world, and the Gobi Desert does 602 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 2: not appear to be a hotspot. 603 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so, but again, who knows exactly how the story 604 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,400 Speaker 1: comes together. Now. Lafer also touches on the subject of 605 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: gemstone phosphorescence. I found this pretty interesting. So tales of 606 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: luminous gems, these go way back. You can find examples 607 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: of this in ancient writings and medieval writings, and apparently 608 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 1: there is some truth to the idea some gems glow 609 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: in the dark after excitement via friction or heat, and 610 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: such observations could have potentially been exaggerated into some of 611 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: the traditions around the world glowing stones, and there are 612 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: some versions that are apparently unique to Chinese traditions, including 613 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: tales of pearls that glow in the dark, and even 614 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: the pupils of certain female whales described as moonlight pearls. So, yeah, 615 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: there would be this pearl like object that glows with 616 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 1: like a moonlight luminosity, and you could pull it out 617 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: in a dark room and you would see the glow. 618 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,479 Speaker 1: And these were seemingly regarded as a real thing during 619 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: the fourth century CE, and as the author notes, it's 620 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: not entirely divorced from the real world. You know, Phosphorescent 621 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: biology in the marine world is a real thing, and 622 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: it was noted by ancient observers. They may not have 623 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 1: known as much about the undersea world as we know today, 624 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: but they knew that sometimes you find things that kind 625 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: of glow or outright glow in the oceanic world. 626 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you don't even necessarily have to go to 627 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 2: the deep ocean for that. That's where a lot of 628 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 2: the examples we think of are. But there are you know, 629 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 2: masses of smaller organisms that float near the surface of 630 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 2: the water and can create bioluminescent glows or phosphorescence sometimes 631 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 2: visible just you know, in the waves. 632 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 1: Absolutely. So, yeah, the idea, you know, has at least 633 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 1: a couple of feet on the ground here, or maybe 634 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: not the whole foot, but at least some toads touched 635 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: on the ground, and some fantasy and other aspects of 636 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: the telling. But yeah, other tales of whalestone state that 637 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: you could see reflection in one at night and that 638 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: it had purifying qualities. And then there were also accounts 639 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: that said that they could be found in the eyes 640 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,720 Speaker 1: of dolphins as well. Lafer points out that other examples 641 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: of glowing items of biological origin in Chinese tradition includes 642 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: the horn of the rhino, and also it was said 643 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: that there was like a variety of will o the 644 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: wisp that would rise from battlefields. So after some sort 645 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: of terrible battle on which humans and horses have died, 646 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: it would see this glow that rises up like a mist, 647 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: and a variation of this would continue on into Japanese traditions, 648 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: with the idea being the other this is somehow connected 649 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: to the life force of the beings that perished here. However, 650 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 1: as Laffer discusses, there would seem to be something of 651 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: an open question as to what extent ideas about glowing 652 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,080 Speaker 1: diamonds and Chinese tradition were based on observations of diamond 653 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: phosph phosphorescence, or if it was like a continuation of 654 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: traditions surrounding pearls and other gems, and as diamonds are 655 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: introduced and or diamonds are upgraded to gymstone status, they 656 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 1: take on these ideas. In general, ideas of phosphorescent diamonds 657 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 1: may also be connected to the electrical qualities of diamonds, 658 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,800 Speaker 1: which plenty of the Elder also wrote about. So basically, 659 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: when a diamond is electrified or exposed to friction, it 660 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: can pick up paper and other light substances, though it 661 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: does not become a conductor. But observations lead ancient writers 662 00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,280 Speaker 1: at times to champion diamonds over loadstones as just magnetic powerhouse. 663 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, in modern evaluation of diamonds, UV lighting is 664 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: sometimes used to judge the authenticity of diamonds, looking for 665 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 1: that for some sort of like a faint glow, and 666 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,760 Speaker 1: evidence that a diamond is actually magnetic to any degree 667 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: or responds to a magnet is it's an indication that 668 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: what you have here is not one hundred percent carbon 669 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,439 Speaker 1: and is therefore not a real diamond. And if it has, 670 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,280 Speaker 1: you know, some sort of metal content to it, well 671 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: it's not carbon. Interesting now, it should come as no 672 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: surprise that diamond is not just an earth thing. Diamond 673 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: can be found in meteorites, often in the form of nanodiamonds. 674 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: In particular, there's a hexagonal diamond as opposed to the 675 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: cubicle lattice of diamond as we've been discussing it, and 676 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: it's it's called Long's Dale light, by some estimates more 677 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: than fifty percent harder than normal or terrestrial diamonds, or 678 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: diamonds as we've been discussing them. So this form of 679 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: diamond was first identified in nineteen sixty seven in the 680 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: Canyon Diabolo meteorite in the form of nanocrystals. Lonstolite is 681 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: formed when graphite containing meteors strike the Earth, with the 682 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: resulting heat and stress transforming the graphite into this form 683 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: of diamond. However, the largest of these are merely a 684 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,919 Speaker 1: micron in size, so it's not if you're imagining sort 685 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: of like a scene from the opening of the classic 686 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,359 Speaker 1: film The Blob, you know, in which the perfectly round 687 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: meteorite cracks open and there's something inside it, perhaps a diamond. 688 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 1: In this case, that does not seem to be the case. 689 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 1: These would be very small, but you do have some 690 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: interesting appearances of this material. Lonstolite deposits were apparently discovered 691 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: in Tunguska and having to do with the Tunguska event, 692 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: which of course is a supporting evidence for the idea 693 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 1: that what we're talking about there is as opposed to 694 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: a comet, and it's thought that this form of diamond 695 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: also forms in major planetary collisions as well. 696 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was reading about some other interesting cases of 697 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 2: probable impact diamonds that are found. You mentioned Tunguska, but 698 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 2: there's a really big impact structure in northern Siberia called 699 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 2: the Poppy Guy impact structure, which is the result of 700 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 2: a huge impact like thirty five million years ago, and 701 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 2: it is also thought to have created a lot of 702 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 2: diamonds when it struck. It's thought that the intense heat 703 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 2: and energy of the impact event essentially, yeah, turned graphite 704 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 2: that was already present in the rocks in the ground 705 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 2: into diamonds. 706 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 4: Wow. 707 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: But again we're still we're talking about nano diamonds here, 708 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,760 Speaker 1: and I realize that's probably not what's going to captivate 709 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: everyone's imagination. You want to consider some serious space rocks, 710 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: And indeed, stories about possible giant space diamond do periodically 711 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: pop up in the space news, Like this is the 712 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 1: kind of thing that I don't have specific memories of 713 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 1: this occurring, but it's the kind of thing that could 714 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: pop up on like late night television. There's so many 715 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: jokes who can make about giant space diamonds, and there's 716 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 1: something about like it's just an interesting reflection on how 717 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: we treat diamonds here on Earth again, that they're rare, 718 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: they're generally small, and the idea that there could be 719 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: an enormous one out there in space somewhere, but we 720 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,400 Speaker 1: just can't get to it. It's kind of an interesting 721 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: tease though. 722 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 2: I mean, the funny thing is people think like, oh wow, 723 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 2: if we could, you know, if we could just get 724 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 2: this planet sized diamond back to Earth, then I'd really 725 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:41,680 Speaker 2: be rich. 726 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 4: But I don't know. 727 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 2: Then it just seems like diamonds would be worthless if 728 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 2: there was that much of them. 729 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,320 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Or like, what are we We're going to 730 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: bring it back to Earth and bring it into an 731 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: orbit around our planet, what happens next? I don't like 732 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: the possibilities. 733 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 2: You'd have to tightly control, like how much of it 734 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,400 Speaker 2: that you mind brought back to Earth so as not 735 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 2: to flood the market and make it worthless. 736 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, now this is interesting. There is this idea 737 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: that I believe it is no longer favorite at all, 738 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 1: but the idea that Jupiter in our own solar system, 739 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 1: the idea that it could have a core that is 740 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: essentially a huge diamond, And in fact, this is the 741 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: idea proposed any work of fiction by Arthur C. Clark in 742 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:33,799 Speaker 1: his book twenty sixty one Odyssey three. Now I haven't 743 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 1: read Odyssey three. I've only read his first book in 744 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 1: the series, twentyd and one in Space Odyssey, based on 745 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: his screenplay for the Stanley Kubrick movie. It's my understanding, however, 746 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 1: that this is not necessarily a trilogy in the sense 747 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: of other like sci fi and fantasy trilogies, just kind 748 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,840 Speaker 1: of like it's more of a continuation of some of 749 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: the same themes, but with more futuristic events occurring. 750 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,400 Speaker 2: Now you mentioned it is no longer favored the idea 751 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,760 Speaker 2: that at the core of Jupiter there's a big old diamond. 752 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,240 Speaker 2: But we did talk in our episode on the Moons 753 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:14,160 Speaker 2: of Uranus about the idea that the atmospheric dynamics within 754 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 2: the atmosphere of Urinus produce diamond rain. 755 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 4: This, yeah, the diamond rain. 756 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, that it that it rains diamonds within within the 757 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 2: gases of Urinus. So you can go listen to those 758 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 2: episodes if you want the fuller explanation there. 759 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you pointed that one out. Yeah, that's 760 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 1: also a great idea and that I think captivates the 761 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,279 Speaker 1: imagination because it's like it's like that Treehouse of Horror 762 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,840 Speaker 1: episode where where Homer freaks out because there are no 763 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: doughnuts in this one reality that he transfers into, and 764 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: then after he leaves it turns out it actually rains 765 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: donuts here. That's right anyway, in this in this author C. 766 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,920 Speaker 1: Clark book, which again I haven't read. If you have 767 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 1: read and you want to write in with more details, 768 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,840 Speaker 1: feel free. But basically the idea spoiler for the Second 769 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 1: Odyssey book twenty But in that book, Jupiter explodes and 770 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,760 Speaker 1: becomes a star, and in twenty sixty one it's revealed 771 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,040 Speaker 1: that since the core of Jupiter is made of diamond, 772 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: there's now a mountain made of diamond on Europa. And 773 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: at the time of his writing this was apparently not 774 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,880 Speaker 1: entirely out of the question, but the Galileo Prob's findings 775 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 1: gave us more insight into Jupiter's composition, and this ultimately 776 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 1: ruled out the diamond core hypothesis. But again, you don't 777 00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: give up hope. There's still the diamond rains potentially on Urunas. 778 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,040 Speaker 1: And then there are some more far flung candidates that 779 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: you might consider for diamond worlds. These are two that 780 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,360 Speaker 1: have definitely popped up on a lot of like the 781 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: space news websites. I'm gonna tell you about a couple 782 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,440 Speaker 1: of them here in case you haven't heard. The first 783 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: one is a place called that's classified is fifty five 784 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: cancrie E, also known as Jansen. This is forty one 785 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,319 Speaker 1: light years away in the Answer constellation. It may have 786 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,319 Speaker 1: lava oceans. It may have a diamond core discovered in 787 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,719 Speaker 1: two thousand and four. We of course don't know for 788 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 1: sure what its composition is, but based on observations and 789 00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,880 Speaker 1: observation data, it might be a rocky, high carbon world 790 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: and its mass could be as much as one third diamond. However, 791 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,400 Speaker 1: don't buy your ticket just yet. More information is needed. 792 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,240 Speaker 1: More information is required. I don't want you to travel 793 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,319 Speaker 1: all the way there and find out that it is 794 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,600 Speaker 1: not a rocky world and it is not one third diamond. 795 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,399 Speaker 2: Be a real time enough at last situation to get there, 796 00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,560 Speaker 2: ready to mine the diamond, and then realize that, oh 797 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:41,880 Speaker 2: it doesn't have oxygen. 798 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, another place in our universe that has also 799 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 1: popped up in these various science stories is a white 800 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,640 Speaker 1: dwarf star classified as HD one nine four one two C. 801 00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,720 Speaker 1: This one's located one hundred and four light years away, 802 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 1: and scientists have theorized that it could be in the 803 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: process of cooling and crystallizing into a giant diamond. WHOA, 804 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,920 Speaker 1: all right, you know it sounds promising, However, big caveat here. 805 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,479 Speaker 1: This process is thought to take somewhere on the order 806 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,240 Speaker 1: of one quadrillion years, which would mean that this particular 807 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,840 Speaker 1: white dwarf, along with oh, I don't know all other stars, 808 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,759 Speaker 1: is simply not old enough to have transformed yet. And 809 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: I think it's going to be a hell of a 810 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,400 Speaker 1: waiting game if you show up there anticipating the possibility 811 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 1: that it's going to turn into a big diamond. But 812 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 1: I love these ideas of like giant space diamonds, and 813 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,279 Speaker 1: especially in this latter case, out of reach in both 814 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,840 Speaker 1: time and space. I mean, Beker's anything on the measure 815 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 1: of light years away is out of reach in both 816 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,880 Speaker 1: time and space to us, but especially the idea of 817 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,879 Speaker 1: HD one nine oh four one two C, because it's 818 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,040 Speaker 1: if it does become a diamond, it's going to become 819 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: a diamond so far into the future that it's basically 820 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:00,160 Speaker 1: a dream. 821 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 2: Maybe that's where the diamond punk technology regime actually arises. 822 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was thinking about it a little bit 823 00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: when you were talking about diamonds as fuel, Like if 824 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,080 Speaker 1: you had some sort of diamond world, or it doesn't 825 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 1: even have to be a diamond world, just we could 826 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 1: borrow from Arthur C. Clark and just imagine a scenario 827 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,720 Speaker 1: where you have an enormous mass of diamond on some world, 828 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,000 Speaker 1: some moon somewhere that was ejected from some sort of 829 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:32,920 Speaker 1: diamond core scenario that and it provided diamond in enough quantity, 830 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,040 Speaker 1: then perhaps you could use that to prop up your 831 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: idea of a diamond furnace that powers something. I mean, 832 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,799 Speaker 1: maybe it ends up taking on religious connotations because I mean, 833 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,080 Speaker 1: the idea of a furnace that burns entirely on diamond, 834 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 1: even if it's not practical from an energy standpoint, maybe 835 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,440 Speaker 1: there is something kind of like spiritually attractive about that. Again, 836 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:58,160 Speaker 1: assuming the culture that's powering the furnace sees diamond as 837 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,799 Speaker 1: something that is special and beautiful and holy and not 838 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: just something to be used to work other gemstones or 839 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:07,480 Speaker 1: to fire up a furnace. 840 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,360 Speaker 2: Well should be blast off from the diamond planet for today. 841 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,560 Speaker 1: I believe so. But don't worry. We'll be back with 842 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,399 Speaker 1: another core episode on Thursday, because Tuesdays and Thursdays that's 843 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: when we have core episodes of stuff to blow your mind. 844 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,359 Speaker 1: We're primarily a science podcast. On Fridays, though, we set 845 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,480 Speaker 1: aside most serious concerns to just talk about a weird 846 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: film on Weird House Cinema. On Mondays we do listener mail, 847 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 1: and on Wednesdays we do a short form episode. Let's 848 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,919 Speaker 1: see what else to stress here. Hey, if you haven't 849 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: rated and reviewed the show before wherever you get the podcast, 850 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 1: if they let you do that, do that for us. 851 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:42,960 Speaker 1: That helps us out in the long run. And if 852 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,640 Speaker 1: you have particular concerns right into us, we'd love to 853 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 1: hear from you. Likewise, if you listen to the show 854 00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,880 Speaker 1: on an Apple device or through like Apple Podcasts, why 855 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:53,560 Speaker 1: don't you pop in there and check and make sure 856 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: that you are subscribed to the show, that you were 857 00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,200 Speaker 1: receiving downloads. That also is great for stuff to play. 858 00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,680 Speaker 2: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 859 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:06,520 Speaker 2: If you would like to get in touch with us 860 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,120 Speaker 2: with feedback on this episode or any other to suggest 861 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,520 Speaker 2: a topic for the future, or. 862 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:11,239 Speaker 4: Just to say hello. 863 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,359 Speaker 2: You can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 864 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:23,520 Speaker 2: your Mind dot com. 865 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,520 Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 866 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,399 Speaker 3: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 867 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:46,720 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.