1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace one, two, three, four, five 2 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: dead bodies that we know of. Are they connected to 3 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: the same serial killer? Is the same serial killer connected 4 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: to thirty five repeat thirty five other jurisdiction murders. That's 5 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: what we know right now. What will we learn? I 6 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace this Crime Stories, Thank you for being with 7 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven. 8 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to please Chief Kevin Davis. 9 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: We have a serial killer. The challenge that remains is 10 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: identifying other victims, and we're going to talk about that 11 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: at great length. Our serial killer is called the shopping 12 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: cart killer. He's called the shopping cart killer because he 13 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: meets his victims, and so far we have three are 14 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: positively two or positively identified, one is tentatively identified, and 15 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: one is unknown. He meets his victims on dating sites. 16 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: He meets his victims then at motels, and we'll talk 17 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: about a motel that he met two of his victims 18 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: at here in Fairfax County. After he inflicts trauma to 19 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: his victims and kills them, he transports their bodies to 20 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: their final resting place, literally in a shopping cart. You know, 21 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: if you parse the police chief Kevin Davis's words, quote, 22 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: we have a serial killer. Very often police chiefs and 23 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: law enforcement don't want to tell the public they think 24 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: they've got a serial killer. But we figured it out, 25 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: so I guess they had to go ahead and announce it. 26 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 1: They can't identify all the victims, which is a big problem. 27 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: I prosecuted a Jane Doe murder before, and you don't 28 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: know who she is, where she's from, what her patterns are, 29 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: who she knows, who she may have come in contact with. 30 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: Very difficult to prosecuted Jane Doe murder. We also know 31 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: dating sites are involved. And then after as you hear 32 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: him say, inflicting trauma to them, what does that mean? 33 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: Slice them up, torture them, bludging them. He then murders 34 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: them and transports their bodies to their final resting place, 35 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: literally in a shopping cart. Now why does that offend 36 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: me so much? Not just the murder, but then putting 37 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: them in a shopping cart like they're saca potatoes, and 38 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: then carting them off and just leaving them somewhere. Have 39 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: you ever driven or walked anywhere and seen abandoned shopping carts? 40 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: I see them all the time, and I can identify 41 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: that's a home depot, that's the Kroger, that's the public. 42 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: That's this about at Walmart? A dead body, A woman's 43 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: body just left out in the open on a busy 44 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: street as shopping cart, like she's a pound of flower. 45 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: I mean, what does that tell us about the killer? 46 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: And now he may be connected to thirty five separate 47 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: jurisdictions with a size. Again, I'm Nancy Grayson. This is 48 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: Crime Stories, and as always, we thank you for being 49 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: with us, sharing your time with us as we investigate 50 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: hardcore crime with me and all star panel to make 51 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,679 Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now. First of all, 52 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: Professor University Texas School of Law, Chief Legal Officer Texas 53 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: Advocacy Project, Bronwyn Blake and Bronwin I need to get 54 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: a website for you so I can look you up online. 55 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us out of the 56 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Professor Psychiatry, 57 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: Lisa Daddio, former police Lieutenant Newhaan, PD, lecturer and Director 58 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: of the Center for Advanced Policing, a University New Haven's 59 00:04:53,520 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: Forensic Science Department. Doctor Michelle Duprie, longtime friend and college 60 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: forensic pathologists, former medical examiner, detective and she literally wrote 61 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: the book or the books Homicide Investigation Field Guide, which 62 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 1: I love that book and Investigating Child to Bees Field 63 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: Guide also great. But first let's go to crime online 64 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Alexis terrest check Alexis. First of all, 65 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: I want you to hear this our cut three more 66 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: from police Chief Kevin Davis. We believe that there may 67 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: be other victims in the area and throughout the Commonwealth 68 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: of Virginia, and we need to act now. We need 69 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: to act right now with our law enforce and partners 70 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: to figure out who else our killer has had contact 71 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:49,040 Speaker 1: with and what's his m O. Dating sites, motels, blunt force, trauma, 72 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:55,119 Speaker 1: shopping cart, final resting place. He's killed four already and 73 00:05:55,279 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: we suspect that he has more victims. He's a predator, 74 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: as all serial killers are, and it's our collective effort 75 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: in law enforcement to do everything we can with each other, 76 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: with the community to identify other places where he has 77 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: been so we can bring closure and ultimately justice. He 78 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: prays on the week he preys on the vulnerable, our 79 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: shopping cart killer does unspeakable things with his victims. This 80 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: guy gets around. I do not believe these murders are copycats, Alexis. 81 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: Trust Chuck. Tell me the signature style the shopping cart 82 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: killer uses. So he meets these women on dating sites, 83 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: so this is online. He meets them there a couple. 84 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: He's using plenty of fish and tagged two differents. Plenty 85 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: of fish and what tagged like? You're tagged in a 86 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: picture tj dged tagged Yeah. Isn't plenty of fish a 87 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: Christian day website? I think it was in the beginning. 88 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: I think everybody is welcome though, well, Alexis, that's what 89 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: Christianity is all about. Everybody is welcome. But I still 90 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: think of it as a Christian dating app because I 91 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: guess that's how it started. And then I thought you 92 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: were saying tag But it's tagged like tag you're it 93 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: well put? So he's that. That tells me something right there, 94 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: And I don't want to interrupt your flow. But to 95 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: doctor Angel Arnold, this is not like some thug standing 96 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: in a corner waiting for a woman to walk by 97 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: and then he grabs her and kills her. This guy's 98 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: more sophisticated than that he's actually going online. He is 99 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:45,559 Speaker 1: selecting a certain type of woman, be she white or black, 100 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: or tall or short, or you know, brunette or blonde. 101 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: He's picking a certain type, I believe, and luring them. 102 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: That's fairly sophisticated. I mean, I see the bulk arders 103 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:05,239 Speaker 1: are not nearly that sophisticated. Doctor Angie, right, you know, Nancy, 104 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: I think that he's luring anybody that will swipe back 105 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: and and accept his invitation. I'm I'm not so sure 106 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: if he has a type. It's just so unfortunate that 107 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: he is able to get into these into these dating 108 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: apps that everybody uses. Now thirty percent of adults in 109 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: the US have said they have used online dating apps. 110 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: Can you believe that Nancy, David and I got set 111 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: up on a blind date. It's ubiquitous in our society now, 112 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: isn't it? But can I tell you something? Nobody poo 113 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: poo dating sites. Because my nephew, who's really a smart guy, 114 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: double major in college and let's see chemistry and it 115 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 1: and now he's an IT troublesheeter for a big corporation. 116 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: He met his wife on a dating app. They're perfectly happy. 117 00:08:57,880 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: I forgot how many years they've been married. Now they 118 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: have a beautiful little boy. I mean, it works so right, 119 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: I'm not surprised at that figure. And if they didn't work, Nancy, 120 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: they wouldn't still be around, and more and more wouldn't 121 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: be created. But women still need to be so careful 122 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: and they can't throw caution to the wound when they're 123 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: using these dating apps. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, 124 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: we are talking about a guy, and of course it's 125 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: a guy. You know, people say, are you a man hater? No, 126 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: I'm not a man hater. I just hate murderers. Back 127 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: to you, Alexis Rustchuck so dating app. I'm still waiting 128 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: to hear how shopping cart gets into it. But take 129 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: it from there. I don't want to leave anything out. 130 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,199 Speaker 1: Go ahead. Alexis so mess women on dating apps. In fact, 131 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: one of them he was. It seems there was more 132 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: than one date. He actually had met her family, so 133 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,559 Speaker 1: they were It wasn't just we meet on a dating app. 134 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: Let's meet up, let's go to a motel together, and 135 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: he kills them there. What happens is he's establishing a 136 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: relationship with one of them. Then this is where the 137 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: mote where I said motel. He has been seen at 138 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: a motel at least six times and victims that police 139 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: have started realizing that the victims were also at this hotel. 140 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: So explain to me, because that's a little odd to you. 141 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: Rom and Blake joining me a Jump Professor University Texas 142 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: School of Law. Rom And, of course all martyrs are 143 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: odd in their own way. But the fact that he 144 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: would actually develop a relationship with one of his victims, 145 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: that is unusual because typically victims of serial killers are 146 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: treated as inanimate objects like trophies. The fact that he 147 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 1: would actually date one of them on more than one asian, 148 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: I find that to be very unusual. I agree with you, Nancy. 149 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: I think if we just look at this as a 150 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: serial killer, or even use those words shopping cart killer, 151 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: that's really disceasing because we have to look at the 152 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: fact of this tape. And you and I both know 153 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: abusive people can be very charming. It can be tricky 154 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: to spot. So if we just hear about want force 155 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: traumat it's hard to go back and think how did 156 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: this begin. Abusive people know how to prey on vulnerability. 157 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: Many of these women maybe they needed love and companionship, 158 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: and this is somebody who they thought could deliver those things. 159 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: Doctor Angela was sharing that this is a predator. Chief 160 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: Kevin dave Us was saying, this is a predator. It 161 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: seems almost like a dirty John situation to me that 162 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: this person you could possibly have been charming them online. 163 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut eight. This is our friend, 164 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: Sierra Fox at Fox five DC and August, investigators have 165 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: found four bodies and say all victims were killed with 166 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: blood forced trauma. The most recent human remains, discovered in 167 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: a shopping cart in Alexandria, Virginia, are believed to be 168 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: twenty nine year old Cheyenne Brown, who was missing from 169 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: southeast DCN family help police identify Brown after recognizing her tattoo. 170 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: Investigators revealed she had been talking on a dating site 171 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: almost pregnant at the time of her death. Video from 172 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: the night she was killed shows Brown taking the Metro 173 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: from DC to the Huntington Metro stop, but she never returned. 174 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: Detectives are holding off on releasing any video and photos 175 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 1: from the incident. Said this time, as they worked with 176 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: the victims families, you know when I worked in DC, 177 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 1: I took the metro. I can't even count how many 178 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: hundreds of times it likes us Urez chuck, that woman 179 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: named Cheyenne Brown. You didn't get to the part about 180 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: how they end up in a shopping cart. So he 181 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 1: kills them. Where he has killed them, we are still 182 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: trying to find out what they are. They are found 183 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: near two of him were found together in the wood 184 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: near a motel in Virginia. The Moon in motel. Hey, 185 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: can I just talk about this hotel? The Moon in 186 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: a hotel in Fairfax County looks like an old I 187 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: guess Antebellum mansion, but it does. I mean, when you 188 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: hear the word motel, you think of like some city 189 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: flop house in a bad area of town. Doesn't look 190 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: like that at all to me. I mean, it's manicured 191 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: lawn and shrubbery, and this got the American flag flying 192 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 1: out front and wreaths on the door. It's immaculately kept up. 193 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: And then not far away, I see a picture of 194 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: Oh I identified it's a target shopping cart and it 195 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: looks like it's down a ravine of sorts. So I 196 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: want to get back to the shopping cart aspect of 197 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: this to doctor Michelle dupre joining me, former medical examiner. 198 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: She's a forensic pathologist, Doctor Michelle Dupree. You ever see 199 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: anything like it? Absolutely, we had stuff like this in 200 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: Miami and other large cities all the time. Oh, let's 201 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: talk about Miami. I'm all about crime in Miami because 202 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: of dexter yees and when I was fed, we had 203 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: a lot of cases in Miami, fraud cases. It was 204 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: what I was dealing with in Miami. Go ahead, I'm 205 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: all ears well, we had there was large homeless populations, 206 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: for example, and so there were several times when we 207 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: had homeless go missing and nobody really tracked them. I mean, 208 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: nobody would miss them, so to speak. Sometimes it was 209 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: by luck that we even found out. But I remember 210 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: one specific case. It was a serial killer case. What 211 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: do you make of the wholes shopping cart aspect, Because 212 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: that's staging the scene to the nth degree, And staging 213 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: does not have to be sophisticated. For instance, I'm putting 214 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: a blanket over the victim's face. I had a case 215 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: where the victim had been covered with leaves and branches. 216 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: Case where the perp tried to stage just seemed to 217 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: look like a suicide set of a homicide, and would 218 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: not have figured that one out if it hadn't been 219 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: for blood spatter evidence. But it goes on and on. 220 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: It can be very sophisticated, or it can be like this, 221 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: putting your victim, I wonder if they were closed or unclothed, 222 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: and I wonder if they were raped or not, in 223 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: a shopping cart and pushing it down a ravine. We're 224 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: hold on Alexis Terrestia, where all the bodies and shopping 225 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: carts found in a wooded area, or any of them 226 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: left on the street in a shopping cart. So far, 227 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: there are five victims that we know of. Four of 228 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: them were found in wooded areas or like an undeveloped 229 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: commercial parking lot out in the kind of the suburbs 230 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: of DC, so in Virginia. But one woman was actually 231 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: found in a shopping cart, just a blanket over her 232 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: body by Union Station in Washington, DC, which is a 233 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: heavily trafficed area that you know, I told you to 234 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: the metro every when I was working in DC all 235 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: the time, That's where I would catch it right there 236 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: at Union Station and inside Union Station when I lived there, 237 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: it was full of all sorts of high end restaurants 238 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: and those super expensive coffee shops and shops where they 239 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: saw nothing but hats and gloves and scarfs, like cashmere things, 240 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: that kind of of shopping. I would never even get 241 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: a coffee there because it would be like seven dollars 242 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: forget it. But it's the dichotomy of that, Lisa da 243 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 1: As opposed to just outside there's a dead woman and 244 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,719 Speaker 1: a shopping cart with a blanket over her. Yeah, it's just, 245 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's tough. And again, I'm also very familiar 246 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: with Union Station down in DC, and it's the high 247 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: traffic of it. You have to take into account everything 248 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: that's going on down there, and to see a shopping 249 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: cart with a blanket over not paying attention to the 250 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: cart itself, you may think it belongs to a nearby 251 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: homeless person or somebody who's belongings are there from a 252 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: homeless person. You're not thinking twice about the fact that 253 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: there may be a body in it, and no one's 254 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: paying attention to it, ignoring it, going about doing their 255 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: own business, you know, not even caring that somebody was 256 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: dumped across the street from this high end train station. 257 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: You know, Doctor Angie you deal with female patients all 258 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: the time. What are we anyway? I feel like, why 259 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: is it always women which is treated like trash just 260 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: put out in a shopping cart and we left out 261 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 1: there to decompose. But it is going on. This is 262 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: a serial killer. There's no telling how many women he's 263 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: done this too across the country. Well, I think it speaks, Nancy. 264 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 1: I think it speaks to women, and unfortunately, women are 265 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: typically the vulnerable ones. But I think it speaks to 266 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: women wanting someone to share their lives with and wanting 267 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: someone to make them feel good. And they literally think, 268 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: you know, Nancy, everyone I talked to and here only 269 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: talks about meeting people on dating apps. They literally all 270 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: of my patients tell me that's the that is the 271 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: way people are meeting folks now. And I'm quite I'm 272 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: sure that this man was quite good at making these 273 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,959 Speaker 1: women feel good about themselves and that's why they and 274 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: that's why he was able to lure them to this place. Right. Well, 275 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: are you saying that he was charming? I bet you 276 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: he is charming. I'm sure he didn't tell them that 277 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: he was going to bang them over the head with 278 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: a sledge hammer. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Take a 279 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 1: listen again to our Friendshierra Fox at Fox five in DC. 280 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: Our cut seven, Fairfax County Police Chief Heavin Davis says, 281 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 1: the shopping cart killer with me his victims on dating sites, 282 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: then motels before killing them, then taking their remains to 283 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: an undisclosed location and a shopping cart. For example, two 284 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: days ago, Fairfax County Police found human remains in a 285 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: container near a shopping car in this isolated wooded area 286 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 1: here in Alexandria, Virginia along Britain Highway. He prays on 287 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: the week, he prays on the vulnerable, and he does 288 00:19:55,240 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: unspeakable things with his victim right along the highway, along 289 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 1: the Richmond Highway. And again, this guy we believe is 290 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: connected to thirty five other jurisdictions. How many women has 291 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: he killed? Take a listen to our cut six w 292 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: j LA. Sadly, these remains were not alone in the container. 293 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: The remains of another unknown identified individual were discovered. One 294 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: they're pretty sure as Brown's. The other they don't know. 295 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: But ass are there even more victims? We're only going 296 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: back a couple two or three months. That's it, and 297 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: that's what worries us. You know he didn't suddenly turn 298 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: into who he is three months ago. And the Fairfax 299 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: Police at this point say that they believe that the 300 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,239 Speaker 1: mystery victim is from this area, but they don't know 301 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,719 Speaker 1: who it is. They would like the public's health, and 302 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: that's a whole another can of ORMs. Brahmin Blaine joining 303 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,959 Speaker 1: me at Jet Professor University, Texas School of Law, prosecute 304 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: getting a Jane Joe murder man. That's hard to do, explain. 305 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: If they're not able to identify this person, then it's 306 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: very difficult for them to quick evidence about what may 307 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: have happened before the crime. And you asked, Nancy, how 308 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: many women has this shopping cart killer killed? I would 309 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: ask about all of the living victims that when he 310 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: was still honing his techniques, people he tried to charm online, 311 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: perhaps people he may be met up with briefly. I 312 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: think that when she's Kevin Davis is giving those press conference, 313 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: they're really want of these living victims to come forward 314 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: and help gather some of that evidence that may help 315 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: us figure out who that team going. You know, she's 316 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: got a really good point, Lisa Daddio, I guarantee you 317 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: his first murder the serial killer was not his first 318 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: time at the Rodeo. I guarantee you he had either 319 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: raped or kidnapped or assaulted in some way a victim 320 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: who managed to live to tell the tale. Oh absolutely, 321 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: And you know to everyone and especially Chief Davis's, you know, 322 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: like what he's really trying to do is get the 323 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: word out there to other women who have had contact 324 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: with him prior to him, you know, murdering, murdering his 325 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: first victim, which we know there are others, right, you 326 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,239 Speaker 1: know what you're reminding me of right now, Lisa Daddy, Oh, 327 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 1: what's up? A guy I prosecuted and the victim, the 328 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 1: first victim, well she wasn't the first, but she was 329 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: the only one that we could actually prove this guy 330 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: I believe was a serial killer. And I got to digging. 331 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: We never did identify the Jane Doe. Found out this 332 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: guy who we thought was the killer had a girlfriend 333 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: that had kicked him out. So I found the girlfriend. 334 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: She looked almost identical to the reconstruction sketch we did 335 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: of the Jane Doe. That's not all I forgot how 336 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: I did it now, but I got some information that 337 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: I needed to go to the folder County Women's jail. No, no, no, 338 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: it was in a neighboring county, I think Gwinnette and 339 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: I went up there and I found this woman. She 340 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: had been raped by the purp and he tried to 341 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: strangle her but he didn't succeed. So how valuable is that? 342 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: Because the Jane Doe had been raped and strangled, the 343 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: girlfriend had been strangled and lived. It's just amazing the psychopathy, 344 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: the repetition of the same scenario over and over. There's 345 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: gotta be a psychiatric name for that, doctor Angel Arnold, 346 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: where you keep doing the same thing over and over 347 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: and over. When a criminal does that for some type 348 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 1: of internal excitement, I guess her. Hey, I don't really 349 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: I don't really know if there's a name for that, 350 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: but I do believe there's a name for the person 351 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: who does it. And he's a sociopath. Well, I know, 352 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,479 Speaker 1: a sociopath can be a lot of people. I'm talking 353 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: about someone. Okay, here's a good example. Alexis rreschoke you 354 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: and I covered BTK buying torture killed Dennis Rader for 355 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: a long time serial killer. And I believe who's a dogcatcher? 356 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: I mean, right there, I don't like him, but I 357 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: believe he was a peeping tom and would peep on 358 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: women on his dogcatching route. And then he graduated to 359 00:24:54,680 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: fulfilling his twisted fantasy and started murdering women and then 360 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: dressing them up post mortem along the lines of Charles Manson, 361 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: how he would do that to a lot of his victims. 362 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: Long story short, doing the same thing over and over 363 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: and over. We see, that's what's happening here, and it's 364 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: a big clue as to the identity of the Purp 365 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: and Nancy. So the woman who was unidentified, she was 366 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: found with Cheyenne Brown. So these two women, their bodies 367 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: were found next to the charge shopping cart in a 368 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: container in the woods. This woman had actually been staying 369 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 1: in the hotel. She went missing months before Cheyenne went missing. 370 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: Her family reported her missing, so she was staying in 371 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: the hotel. So this hotel is sort of at the 372 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: center of it all. Are you talking about the Moon Hotel? Yes, 373 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: the Moon Moon in Gosh. You know, when you look 374 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: at it, it looks so quaint, but it's the center 375 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: of more than one of the serial killer's victim Take 376 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: a listen now to our cut nine from Fox five, 377 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: in the same container where Brown's remains were found police day, 378 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: another person's remains were also inside. That individual has not 379 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: yet been identified. This investigation all started when two other 380 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: bodies were found in an open line Harrisonburg, Virginia, two women, 381 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,239 Speaker 1: fifty four year old Aleen Redman and thirty nine year 382 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: old to Meeta Smith. The Harrisonburg police chief, Kelly Warner, 383 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: joined Fairfax County's police department at a news conference today. 384 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: Both women were discovered within a short distance of each 385 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: other dead, although their deaths took place at two separate times. 386 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: Justice will prevail and the offender will be held accountable 387 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: for what he did. And we haven't ruled out there. 388 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: I'll use the plural term. Maybe what they did seeing 389 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: the same mmodus operandi method of operation of rid of 390 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: the bodies. So he liked the one container where he 391 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: dumped a body near the Moon Inn, so he used 392 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: it again. So the discovery of these two bodies must 393 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: have been a horrible, horrible scene. One body had been 394 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: there for some time. Take a lista nat to art 395 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: cut eleven Fox five. In December, human remains were found 396 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 1: in a plastic container near a shopping car in an 397 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: isolated wooded area along Richmond Highway and Alexandria, Virginia. Fairfax 398 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: County Police are now waiting for the DNA confirmation of 399 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: those two deaths. I checked in with the Medical Examiner's 400 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 1: office today and they say both cases are still pending. However, 401 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 1: detectives believe one victim is twenty nine year old Cheyenne 402 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: Brown as Southeast DC after her family recognized the tattoo 403 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: of her name. The fourth victim could be a woman 404 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 1: from California, Stephanie Harrison. They are missing persons signs surrounding 405 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: the Moon and Hotel, where her sister tells Fox five 406 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: she was staying last August. The families involved or heartbroken 407 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: that there could be more victims out there all of 408 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: a sudden. Here and four people just all of a sudden, 409 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: and then how many more are they're going to be? 410 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, in a way, I kind of 411 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: feel like there has to be more too, because you 412 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: don't just wake up one day and start doing that. 413 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: So true, so true, And let me understand this. Alexis 414 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: terres Chuck. One victim had been staying there, the victim 415 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: for California. Back in August, they were missing person's missing 416 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: person flyers up. But yeah, this container was not that 417 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: far away. It wasn't and they had not I couldn't 418 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: find her. They didn't and it wasn't. And then after 419 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: Cheyenne went missing, that's when they started searching the area 420 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: because they had done some police work to figure out 421 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,719 Speaker 1: where her cell phone was and where she was staying, 422 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: things like that, and that's where they tried to doounce them. 423 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: They had the cadaver dogs and then they went to 424 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: this area. But yeah, there was a literally a missing 425 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: person's poster for this woman just right on the road 426 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: near the hotel. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. Take a 427 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: listen to our cut twelve jess Arnold, WUSA nine. Fairfax 428 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: County police say it was here right near the Moon 429 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: and at Alexandria, and they found the body of a 430 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: woman who they believe is twenty nine year old Cheyenne Brown. 431 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: She's one of four alleged victims of the so called 432 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: shopping cart killer who start hoping to confirm her identity 433 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: through DNA by the end of this week, but her 434 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: mom says she already knows it's her from her tattoo. 435 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: This picture of twenty nine year old Cheyenne Brown and 436 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: her seven year old son, Juan, maybe one of the 437 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: last they shared. His grandmother says, he's struggling to understand 438 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: his mom is in heaven now, but he still picks 439 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: up the phone and he still tries the car, so 440 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: I know he doesn't really understand. Nicandra Brown says, on 441 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: September thirtieth, Cheyenne got on a metro bus in DC 442 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: and disappeared in She was five months pregnant at the time, 443 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: calling you know, hospitals, checking for like Jane does or 444 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: don't identify women, and you know, checking the Morgan I 445 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: was a wreck. In early December, Fairfax County Police found 446 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: what they believe is Cheyenne's body. They suspect she's one 447 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: of at least four alleged victims of the shopping card killer. 448 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: Take a listen to these names. Tanita Smith thirty nine, 449 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: Alene Redman fifty four. That's a big age difference and 450 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: the women that he's picking. So I think whoever said 451 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: it earlier, you're right, he's not picking a certain age 452 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: or a certain type. Cheyenne Brown twenty nine, with the 453 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: little boy, the son who's still trying to call her 454 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: on her cell phone. Stephanie Harrison forty eight, Sonja Champ 455 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: forty was just found was discovered in September, but just 456 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: recently connected to the shopping card killer. It goes on 457 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: and on. They couldn't seem to catch him. Take a 458 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: listen to our cut five SAM four w j LA 459 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: police and Harrisonburg found the bodies of fifty four year 460 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: old Eleene Elizabeth Redman of Harrisonburg and thirty nine year 461 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: old Tonita Lurice Smith of Charlottesville November twenty third, in 462 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: a vacant lot near a motel and Harrisonburg not far apart. 463 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: A Metropolitan PTPD contacted the Harrisonburg Major Crimes Division after 464 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: Harrisonburg police said they saw him on surveillance with a 465 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: shopping cart. They arrested Robinson. DC police suspected a link 466 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: to Cheyenne Brown of Northeast DC, who disappeared September thirtieth. 467 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: Using digital GPS, police followed Brown and Robinson from the 468 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: Minnesota Avenue Metro station in DC to the Huntington Metro 469 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: station in Virginia. Fairfax police searched near the moon In 470 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: motel and found a shopping cart next to it a 471 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 1: big plastic trash container, and they believe Brown's remains were inside. 472 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: Straight to you, Alexis Terres Schuck, So surveillance video of 473 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: a man pushing a shopping cart is what the case 474 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,840 Speaker 1: it is. They finally they finally got it. They were 475 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: using I mean, just regular police investigation. They find the 476 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: victim's cell phone, they see where they had been, where 477 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: they went. Now they realized she was at this motel. 478 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: So then they try to find surveillance video around there 479 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: or around where the other bodies were found, and they 480 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: see him on video. And here's the thing we talked about. 481 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: So you're saying he has been doing you know, these 482 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: are at least five that we know of. This isn't new. 483 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: But what if he had never been caught. Well, amazingly, 484 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: this guy does not have a criminal record. But that 485 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: is not uncommon. I mean the reality. How many times 486 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: does a rapist or sex assault or assault before he's caught. 487 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: It's a staggering number. Some say between twelve, others say 488 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: seventy times that they molest or assault before they're ever caught. 489 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: In the vast majority of women do not report six assaults. Why, 490 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I believe in their mind they feel 491 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: somehow responsible for the attack on themselves. Take a listen 492 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: our cut ten Fox five. Fairfax County police want to 493 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,719 Speaker 1: figure out how many times the shopping card killer stayed 494 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: here at the Mooned Hotel, to better figure out a 495 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: timeline of when these unfortunately events unfolded, and to see 496 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: if there are any more potential victims out there. You 497 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: may remember that to tect this day, he would meet 498 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: his victims on data apps then locations like this before 499 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: doing unspeakable things to them. Today, I was able to 500 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: speak with the daughter of one of the victims, who 501 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: says she's still processing all of this all in the road. 502 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: Did that happen like it on TV? And I mean 503 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: it really is like exactly what goes on in the 504 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,959 Speaker 1: shows right now, like everything that is happening, and it's 505 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 1: kind of weird. Her mother is fifty four year old 506 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: Beth Redman. Her remains were found in a vacant law 507 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: and Harrison burd along with thirty nine year old to 508 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,240 Speaker 1: meet a little Reese right now. Anthony Robinson is behind 509 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: bars and charged with two counts of first degree murder 510 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: and disposing the bodies of those two women. You were 511 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 1: just hearing the daughter of one of the murdered victims. Now, 512 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: take a listen to the mother of one of the 513 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: murdered victims, our friends at WUSA nine, our cut thirteen. 514 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: I don't even know what words. It's just terrible. Police 515 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 1: have arrested thirty five year old Anthony Robinson for the murders. 516 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,440 Speaker 1: When Ncandra's cousin saw his picture, she says he recognized 517 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: him as a man Cheyenne had brought to their house before. 518 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: And I'm so angry, Like I don't even have tears anymore. 519 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: I'm just like, why would you do this to my daughter? 520 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: She didn't deserve that, you know. She was just so 521 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: full of life, and so is her son, Elias, the 522 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: same heart like as mom is, like she's still here 523 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: with us, She's still here with us through him. And 524 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,320 Speaker 1: we hear police begging now that we have this guy's 525 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: photo for women who have had any contact with him 526 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: to speak out. Take a listen to w j L 527 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: A cut fourteen and breaking right now seven. Use is 528 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: on your side with the latest on a body found 529 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: in DC that investigators believe could be the fifth victim 530 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: of the so called shopping cart killer. Tonight, they have 531 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: released the identity of that victim. Investigators say the victim 532 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: is Sonja Champ. Her body was found in a shopping 533 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: cart near Union Station back in September. Fairfax Police say 534 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: they just found out about her death, which is being 535 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: investigated by DC police. As that continues, Fairfax investigators have 536 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: confirmed the identity of two women They believe we're killed 537 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: by thirty five year old Anthony Robinson, and now they're 538 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 1: hoping any potential survivors will come forward and help them 539 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: learn more about Robinson, in particular missing females who may 540 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: fit the victimology profile of our four victims. What we 541 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: really need is information about previous contexts. Our investigators believe 542 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,800 Speaker 1: Robinson used dating apps like Plenty of Fish and tagged 543 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: to meet as victims. Is currently in jail charged in 544 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: the deaths of two women in Harrison Burke gu Alexis 545 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: Terrestia at crime online dot Com investigative reporter. Why are 546 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: we hearing the number thirty five as to how many 547 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: other jurisdictions may be involved? Well, he is originally from 548 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 1: New York. Most these victims were found in Virginia and Washington, DC, 549 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: and police all around the area are connecting that perhaps 550 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: there was a similar a missing person or a body 551 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 1: FOUK where they have not identified who the killer is 552 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: and they think this could be related. So there are 553 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: so many unsolved murders and they're all looking all these jurisdictions. Now, 554 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: they're all talking to each other and they're realizing that 555 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: maybe there is a connection. He could have gone anywhere 556 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: up and down meat or further, but this is where 557 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: they're all. They seem to have unsolved murders that they're 558 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 1: going to try to see if this is connected. So 559 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: you're telling me that he's being held right now in Virginia, Yes, 560 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: for these So far, he's been charged with murders of 561 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 1: two women right now. There are three others that are 562 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 1: definitely known, so he's awaiting charges for or are they 563 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:39,760 Speaker 1: also in Virginia? Two are? The fifth is in Washington, DC? Okay, 564 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,879 Speaker 1: you know what that tells me, Bromin Blake. Is there 565 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: any chance? Well, with these two jurisdictions, there's not. There's 566 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: no chance this guy's going to get the death penalty, 567 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:57,879 Speaker 1: no matter how many women he tortured and murdered and 568 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: left their bodies in a shopping cart. Is neither of 569 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: those jurisdictions have the DPA I think you make a 570 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: good point, and I have to thank you for highlighting 571 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: this story on your show, because when we hear details 572 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,319 Speaker 1: like this and the fact that this person might not 573 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 1: have certain punishments, we want to turn away, but as women, 574 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 1: we really can't. And in the Textas Advocacy Project, We've 575 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,399 Speaker 1: been doing free legal services for domestic violence ductual thought 576 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: Stocking for forty years, and I've been working in dating 577 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,320 Speaker 1: violence for sixteen years. And this can happen to anyone. 578 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: You heard about these victims. They're all ages, they're different races. 579 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 1: What do they have in common? I'm sure doctor Jeli 580 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: would agree with me. They're hopeful people. And these chief Davis, 581 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: chief Warm they need more people to come forward, and 582 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: we believe survivors if others were hurt. I hope they 583 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: do come forward so this person can be punished appropriately. 584 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: Dodger and Arnold, give me your analysis, well said. The 585 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: sad thing is the reason people don't come forward is 586 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: because oftentimes when something bad does happen to them and 587 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,919 Speaker 1: they've done on a dating site, they are so mortified 588 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: and embarrassed of what happened to them, and they and 589 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: so they come to somebody like me and they talk 590 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: to me about it, but they don't want to go 591 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: forward and let everybody know what they were doing, because 592 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: they do reach out on dating sites because that is 593 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,720 Speaker 1: what people do now to find love in their life, 594 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 1: so that you know, they're initially very vulnerable from that standpoint. 595 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 1: But when it doesn't work out that people don't go 596 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: shouting it from the rooftops because, as you said, Nancy, 597 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: for some people it does work out. So then the 598 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: victim feels like, well, why does this not happen to me? 599 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: And why am I a victim? And what was wrong 600 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: with me that this chose this man chose me to 601 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: be a victim. So people don't speak out. I'm very 602 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: curious about the other jurisdictions where we believe he has 603 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 1: murdered other women. To Lisa Daddy, what's your analysis, We've 604 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: got to get the word out there. I think there's 605 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: other victims outside of DC Washington area, in Virginia and 606 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: especially with connections back up into New York. We have 607 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 1: to look at all those missing person reports and those 608 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,000 Speaker 1: unknown gene does to you, Doctor Michelle Dupree weigh in, 609 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: I think they're right. You know, there are many reasons 610 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: that women don't report sexual assault, and I think that 611 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: the stigma of that is something that we also need 612 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: to work on, because you know, it is not their fault, 613 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,320 Speaker 1: and so many times they don't believe that. They believe 614 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: that they did something to encourage it, or to leave 615 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: them on or something like that. But as we all know, 616 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:46,280 Speaker 1: you know, Noah's no you know, Alexa stress check these victims. 617 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:52,280 Speaker 1: As our guests are pointing out, across all barriers, age races, 618 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: socio economic level, it seems as if no one is 619 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: safe from this guy. How are we going to figure 620 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 1: out without a DNA comparison, what other victims he's murdered. 621 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,160 Speaker 1: I think it's going to have to be tracked through 622 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: the dating service, and then other people are going to 623 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,320 Speaker 1: recognize him when they see his name, they see it safe. 624 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: They might you know, they might have just chatted with 625 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,439 Speaker 1: him for a few minutes on this skating app and thought, oh, 626 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: he wasn't for me, and now they realized who it was. 627 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: We don't even know if he used his real name 628 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: on this dating app. That's something you know that they 629 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: could have been done. So he might have been telling 630 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,319 Speaker 1: other people or when he went on other dates, he 631 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: could have been using a different name, so they're going 632 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 1: to have to really put it out there so that 633 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: people know and recognize this. I think one way to 634 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: do it is through cell phone data. Where he has been, 635 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: wherever he's been going back for years. That's where I 636 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 1: would look for unsolved amasides and missing people. Tip line 637 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,120 Speaker 1: seven h three two four six seven eight hundred repeat 638 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: seven zero three two four six seven eight hundred. Look 639 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: at Anthony Robinson. Did you date him? Did you talk 640 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,400 Speaker 1: to him online? Did your sister date him? Do you 641 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: have a friend or a relative missing seven o three 642 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 1: two four to six seven eight hundred. Nancy Grace Crime 643 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: Story signing off Goodbye friend,