1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Today's podcast is brought to you by Tracker. Listeners to 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: this show get a special discount of thirty off your 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: entire order. Go to the spelled t h E Tracker 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: dot com and intercode history. The hardest thing you'll ever 5 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: have to find is their website. Go to the Tracker 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: dot com right now in a promo code history for 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: thirty percent off your entire order. Again, that's the Tracker 8 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: dot com promo code history. Are you looking for brand 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: new episodes of a short how Stuff Works podcast that 10 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: explains the everyday world around us, Then check out brain 11 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: Stuff with me Christian Sager. New episodes hit every Monday 12 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: and Wednesday on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, or anywhere else 13 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Welcome to Steph you missed in 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: history class from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and 15 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly from and I'm tra 16 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: and we are still in the Halloween season, which makes 17 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: me happy in my dark little heart, and I accidentally 18 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: started a witch theme, but that's not gonna last. Just 19 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: the two witch episodes of this one and the Bell Witch, 20 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: and the Bell Witch really doesn't even count in that regard. 21 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: But today's episode is legitimately about which trials uh and 22 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: actual accusations of witchcraft and Europe's witchcraft trials spanned three centuries, 23 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: from roughly fourteen fifty to seventeen fifty, but it was 24 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: really during the late sixteenth and seventeenth centuries that the 25 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: practice of trying people as witches was most fervent, and 26 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: from about fifteen seventy to sixteen eighty. It's estimated, and 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: this is a pretty wide uh gap of where the 28 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: estimate falls, that between forty thousand and sixty thousand people 29 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: across Europe were tried for sorcery of some form and 30 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: most of them were found guilty and put to death. 31 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: I've seen the fraction of like approximately two thirds, but 32 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: it's hard because there wasn't great record keeping to identify 33 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: exactly how many lost their lives because of this in 34 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: one particular town. Uh. This is an episode heavy in 35 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: Norwegian words, which I have no doubt I will butcher. Uh. Yeah, 36 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 1: even even having looked at pronunciations for them, a lot 37 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: of the phonemes are not used in English, and so 38 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: replicating them, yeah, it's a stretch. So no upfront that 39 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: we will probably butcher it, and we mean no disrespect 40 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: to the Norwegian language. Our mouths just will not do it. 41 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about Varda, which is a 42 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: fishing village. It was known as Norway's witch capital, and 43 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: it was the site of a long series of quite 44 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: brutal inquests. And there were generally two different kinds of 45 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: witchcraft trials in Norway through this time period. There were 46 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: isolated trials where one person was brought before the court 47 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: and tried for sorcery, uh, like, just one person at 48 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 1: a time would pop up and seem suspicious. And then 49 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: there were panics where groups of people were tried in 50 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: rapid succession in a very short period of time. And 51 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: whereas the isolated trials had more to do with an 52 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 1: individual person practicing witchcraft or some sort of sorcery, these 53 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: panics were driven by the idea that demons were involved 54 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: usually and that groups of which is we're consorting with 55 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: the devil. So today we're going to talk about two 56 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: of the panics that took place in Varda, Norway. Uh. 57 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: And first we're going to give you a little bit 58 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: of geographical context about the area. So Varda sits in 59 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: Finnmark County, is Norway's only town that's in the Arctic 60 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: climate zone and offers views of the Norwegian Russian Arctic. 61 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: It's a really small coastal village. There are fewer than 62 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: d inhabitants. It's Northern Norway's oldest town, with settlements dating 63 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: back as far as nine thousand years and in the 64 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: hundreds both a church and Varta fortress were built there 65 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: and the town sort of grew up around primarily the fortress. 66 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: And despite the brutal weather, the fishing along the coast 67 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: of finn Mark was plentiful and the location offered really 68 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: really um lucrative trade opportunities even today. I mean, this 69 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: is remote. Its relative isolation is one of the reasons 70 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: that finn Mark's witch trials were so expedient. Copenhagen, which 71 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: under Danish rule was Norway's capital, was far enough away 72 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: that the local authorities of finn Mark basically got to 73 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: act independently. There was such a big geographical distance from 74 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: any higher authority that the decisions to execute witches were 75 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: basically made with total conviction, and then the sentences were 76 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: carried out without hesitation. There was no like Norwegian h 77 00:04:55,080 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: version of of like the Department of Justice over seeing 78 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: the witch trial situation in Finnmark correct, But the directives 79 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: to to prosecute, which is came from very high because 80 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: during some of this time from sixty the ruler of 81 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: the Danish Norwegian Kingdom was King Christian the fourth, and 82 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: he had an agenda when it came to witches. Yeah, 83 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: I should say they're that like even if there had 84 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: been an equivalent of the Justice department overseeing the witch 85 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: trial situation, it would not have had the effect of 86 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: preventing the execution of witches. And the officials of the 87 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: crown at this time, who served under Christian the fourth, 88 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: we're basically charged with the task of ridding the country 89 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: of witches, and they were very committed to this job. 90 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: So it's not surprising that there was a level of 91 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: comfort in acting with this complete authority. In cases of 92 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: witchcraft at the local level. From the late sixteenth century 93 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: into the seventeenth century, Varda, which is a small village, 94 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: as we said, stage a hundred and four different trials 95 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: and in nine documented cases the accused was found guilty 96 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: and put to death either by burning or by torture. 97 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: Most of these happened in clusters where many people were 98 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: prosecuted over very short periods of time, and the numbers 99 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: here get really interesting because during the time of these 100 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,239 Speaker 1: witch hunts, less than one percent of Norway's population lived 101 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: in the Finnmark area where these trials took place, but 102 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: this remote fishing community was home to thirty one of 103 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: the witch executions in Norway, so disproportionately large numbers of 104 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: people were being charged and punished by death for being witches. 105 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: In finn Mark there were one d eleven women and 106 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: twenty four men accused of sorcery. Of thee put to 107 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: death seventy seven where women in fourteen were men and 108 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: the Sami people, which is an indigenous Scandinavian culture which 109 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: still exists today, were some of the first to be 110 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: targeted in this witch panic. They had been the for 111 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: known people to live in Finnmark, but as that area colonized, 112 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: they became the minority. Approximately eighty percent of those accused 113 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: of witchcraft and finn Mark were Norwegian were Sami. When 114 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: considering gender, though these numbers skew in a totally different way. 115 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: Of the twenty four men who were accused of witchcraft 116 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: in the area, sixteen were from the Sami people. At 117 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: least thirteen of those, sixteen were found guilty and executed, 118 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: and that disparity in proportions is likely do according to 119 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: historian live Helene Williamson, who is kind of an expert 120 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: on this area of study, to the fact that Sami 121 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: men in particular had a reputation for sorcery throughout Europe, 122 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: and this is linked probably to some of their cultural practices. 123 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: For example, uh, they used this, uh they would do 124 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: this ritual where they used run drums where they were 125 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: basically kind of doing chance and people went, oh, that 126 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: must be evil. It wasn't. It's just part of their culture. 127 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: And in sixteen o nine, King Christian the fourth wrote 128 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: a letter to his district governors that they should persecute 129 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: Sami sorcerers without mercy, and that really catalyzed finn Mark's 130 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: witch hunting phase. So while the trials of the seventeenth 131 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: century might have primarily affected Norwegian women, it does appear 132 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: that bias against the Sami people really started things. In 133 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: the early sixteen hundreds, Sami were targeted more frequently, and 134 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: then the trials transitioned to focus on the women of 135 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: finn Mark, and part of the mindset that led to 136 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: this witch panic was the idea common in the sixteenth 137 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: and seventeen centuries that the far north of the European continent, 138 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: including the coast of Norway, was sort of home to 139 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: the devil. This idea appears to have been born of 140 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 1: a tangle of ideologies and fears. For one, although Christianity 141 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: had spread throughout Europe, there were still people, including those 142 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: in the northern fringes, who didn't practice it, which drew 143 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: a lot of suspicion from the Church did sationally. This 144 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 1: was and still is a place where the climate can 145 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: be incredibly punishing, and that stormy nature was attributed to sorcery. 146 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: The icy cold winds from the north were believed to 147 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: originate at the devil's home and to be a conveyance 148 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: of the devil's will of sorcery and of evil spirits. 149 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: And these spirits, of course, specialized in nautical dark magic. 150 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: And these were not just locally held ideas. Many areas 151 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: of Europe, including France, England, Sweden, Germany and Scotland, were 152 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: homes of people who believed that Norway was virtually riddled 153 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: with witches, and the Mountain of Dolmen, which sat between 154 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: two fishing villages, was believed to be the site of 155 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: the entrance to a tunnel that went directly to Hell, 156 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: and a cave within that mountain was reportedly the genesis 157 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: point for various demons who then spread from there throughout 158 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: the European continent. So we're about to get into these panics, 159 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: but first we're going to pause for a quick word 160 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: from one of our sponsors. Hey, it is fine to 161 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: own up to the fact that you don't want to 162 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: make extraneous stops on the way home to go stand 163 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: in line at the grocery store and look for ingredients 164 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: and do all of those things. Don't know, I never 165 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: want I get real crabby when I have to make 166 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: an extra stop, uh and take out. While it can 167 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: be a delicious indulgence is not always better. It's often 168 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: expensive and the nutrition is not always an a plus. 169 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: So that is where blue Apron comes in. Blue Apron 170 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: will deliver farm fresh ingredients and step by step recipes 171 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: directly to your home, letting you create healthy, handcrafted meals 172 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: right there in your own kitchen without having to go 173 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: to the grocery store. For less than ten dollars a meal, 174 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: Blue Apron sends you all of your ingredients perfectly proportioned. 175 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: You're basically ready to cook right out of the gate 176 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,839 Speaker 1: without having to do a whole big mason plus situation, 177 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: no trips to the grocery store, you won't waste unused ingredients. 178 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: Plus you really get to play around with some ingredients 179 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 1: you might not otherwise have found on your own. They 180 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: work around your schedule and your dietary preferences so that 181 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: you will get yummy and fun meals. One the upcoming 182 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: ones is a spiced pork burger, which basically anytime they 183 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: send a pork burger, my husband gets really excited. So 184 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: you two can cook incredible meals. Blue Apron is a 185 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: better way to cook. So check out this week's menu 186 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: and get your first three meals for free by going 187 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 1: to blue apron dot com slash history. That is really 188 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: unfortrue our treat. Just go there and get your three 189 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: free meals on us when you go to blue apron 190 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: dot com slash history. So back to finn Mark in 191 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: the sixteen twenties. As with any of history's witchcraft persecution episodes, 192 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: sorcery was often the scapegoat for difficult or tragic events 193 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: that happened in any community, and finn Mark experienced a 194 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: really terrible storm one Christmas early on in the seventeenth century. 195 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: So the unexpected sixteen seventeen Christmas Eve storm hit when 196 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 1: sixteen boats from Varda and seven boats from uh Kaiberg. 197 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm saying that terribly wrong, so I apologize. 198 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: We're all at sea and ten of those boats capsized 199 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: and forty fishermen were drowned. Struggling to cope with the 200 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: loss of so many of the villages men, at one time, 201 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 1: members of the community started to point to witchcraft is 202 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: the cause of this tragedy. The population of both villages 203 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: combined was less than three hundred people, so forty deaths 204 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: really did have a massive impact on the community. And 205 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: this incident eventually catalyzed a piece of legislation that allowed 206 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: for mass prosecution, specifically in the charge of witchcraft. And 207 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: it actually took a long time to enact that law 208 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: and get it up and running. While it was first 209 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: introduced in October sixteen seventeen, it really wasn't enforced until 210 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: sixteen twenty. This ability meant that there was one of 211 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: those instances where a lot of people, both men and women, 212 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: faced charges of witchcraft and were found guilty. So in 213 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: January of sixty one, during the anti sorcery proceed dings, 214 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: a woman appeared at the trials and claimed that witches 215 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: had indeed tied knots in the fishing nets and cast 216 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: spells on them. Her name was Elsa Knutes daughter, and 217 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: she detailed how a group of witches had tied three 218 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 1: knots in a piece of string. They had cursed the 219 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 1: knots and then spit on them, and then as those 220 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: knots were untied, that curse was activated and the sea 221 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: consequently claimed the lives of those fishermen. She herself was 222 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: accused of witchcraft and was thrown into the sea to 223 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: see if she floated. This is all too common and 224 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: pretty foolish practice. The thinking was that the water, which 225 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: was believed to be a sacred element, would repel evil, 226 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: which was why which is floated. Elsa floated, dooming herself 227 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: to a guilty verdict, and then she was put to death. 228 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: In February of one another woman on Lar's daughter, testified 229 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: before the court, and initially she refused to speak, and 230 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: she was, like Elsa, thrown into the sea for the 231 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: water test. But after this test began, she readily confessed, 232 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: and this was framed at the time as the water 233 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: test having released her from the devil's spell. She claimed 234 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: that when she had been questioned earlier, the devil had 235 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: silenced her tongue, and when she did speak, she said 236 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: that she had met with the devil on Christmas Eve 237 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: of sixteen seventeen. She went on to say that she 238 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: had that evening flown through the air alongside the devil, 239 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: and that he had taken her from one village to 240 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: another where a total of forty witches had gathered to 241 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: celebrate the Sabbath. After these events, she went back to 242 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: her home. Mari Jorgan's daughter also testified, and she said 243 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: that the devil had visited her on Christmas Eve and 244 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 1: asked if she would serve him, and then took her 245 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: to the home of Kirsty Soren's daughter. Kirsty, according to 246 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: Marie's testimony, cast a spell on her that transformed her 247 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: into a raven, enabling her to quickly make the journey 248 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: to the gathering where the not curse was performed. Marie 249 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: gave added information that a similar Christmas Eve Sabbath had 250 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: happened in the time between the sixteen seventeen tragedy in 251 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: the sixty one trials on Christmas Eve sixteen twenty and 252 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: Kirsty Soren's daughter figured prominently in a lot of the testimony. 253 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: She was characters characterized by others on trial as the 254 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: leader of the group, and she was also one of 255 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: the last women who testified in the sixty one trials, 256 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: and she had witnessed how things had played out for 257 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: those that had faced the court before her. Under threat 258 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: of torture, she confirmed what the other women had said 259 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: about their rituals, dooming herself to be burned at the stake. 260 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: During her court appearance, Kristie names two men who had 261 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: also participated in the rituals while men were tried for 262 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: witchcraft in Norway during all this time. Neither of the 263 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: men that she named were formally accused. But if legal 264 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: records of later trials are taken at face value, because 265 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: there there are records of all of these proceedings that 266 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: are apparently pretty well um maintained, they're in pretty good shape. 267 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: But they are they're literally like on file. Uh they're 268 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: in Norway, so they're not online or anything, but they 269 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: basically like lay out as though this this is a 270 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: legal document. These are legal proceedings all of these things 271 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: that we're talking about today, So there is a record 272 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: of all of these trials uh and if they are 273 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: taking at face value, there were still practicing, which is 274 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: in finn Mark for decades after the many deaths of 275 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: the sixty one trials, and while more than ten women 276 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: were put to death in sixteen twenty one, a series 277 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: of trials in the sixteen sixties would claim even more lives. 278 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: In late sixteen sixty two, more than thirty were accused 279 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: of sorcery in a series of trials that played out 280 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: into sixteen sixty three. Among the accused were not just 281 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: adult women, but also young girls under the age of twelve, 282 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: and most of the testimonies in this case were confessions 283 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: that were tortured out of women uh and threatened out 284 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: of children who said that they had met and celebrated 285 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: with the devil at Domain, which we mentioned earlier. During 286 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: the trial, several of the accused of that they had 287 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,479 Speaker 1: traveled Doman's pathway to Hell and that it was a 288 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: long black valley with a boiling lake at the bottom. 289 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: And one of the children victimized in these trials was 290 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: Ingeborg Iver's daughter, who was found guilty of sorcery because 291 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: of her association with two women and another girl and 292 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: their Christmas Eve sixteen sixty two activities. So that day 293 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: Iver's daughter and a woman named Solvinil's daughter were actually 294 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: in custody for suspected witchcraft. They were imprisoned at Vardahoo's fortress, 295 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: but according to testimony given before the court, they turned 296 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: into cats, escaped the fortress and met with the devil 297 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: outside the gates, and then the devil took them to 298 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: one of these witch meetings, and it's there that they 299 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: met the other woman and girl that were involved in 300 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: this particular accusation in the testimony, and after much carousing 301 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: and celebrating, the devil then returned them to the fortress 302 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 1: Ingeborg had the unhappy distinct and of being the first 303 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: child accused of witchcraft and fin mark when she appeared 304 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: at her trial on January sixty three. Her exact age 305 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: is unknown, but she was described in court records as 306 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 1: quote a little girl. Her mother had already been burned 307 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: for witchcraft, and she had said that her mother taught 308 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: her witchcraft by giving her a tainted bowl of milk. 309 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: There was this perception at the time that witchcraft was 310 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: conveyed often through tainted food or drink, and that's how 311 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: you you passed it on from one generation to the next. 312 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: And then the devil, after she had had this tainted milk, 313 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: the devil was conjured by her mother in the form 314 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: of a black dog, and that dog bit her repeatedly. 315 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: And this same sort of narrative was described by the 316 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: other five girls as well, being given like a tainted 317 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 1: usually milk and then this black dog devil coming and 318 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 1: and sort of attacking them as a form of trial. 319 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: And while to the court at the time, uh this 320 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: may have indicated truthfulness, each earl's testimony validated what had 321 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: come before because they were pretty consistent, but it also 322 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: suggests that perhaps they had simply heard the same tale 323 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: over and over from somewhere, And we're going to get 324 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: to a possible source of that tale in just a moment. 325 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: We're also going to go into a bit more detail 326 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: about the Vardas Fortress and some of the people who 327 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: were held there as captives. But before we do, we 328 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: are going to stop one more time for a very 329 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: brief responsor break. Trips to the post office never convenient, 330 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: no and I even have one close, but it's still 331 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: a pain in the took us well, and I genuinely 332 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: enjoy the walk down to the local post office from 333 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: where I live. It's a nice little whack, but I mean, 334 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: I just don't have time. So fortunately, you can get 335 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 1: postage right from your desk with stamps dot Com. Stamps 336 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 1: dot com even gives you special postage discounts that you 337 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: can't get at the post office, including first class, Priority Mail, Express, International, 338 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: and more. You'll never pay full price for postage again. 339 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: Using your own computer and enter, you buy in print 340 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: official US postage for any letter or package. Then you 341 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: just hand your mail off to the person who delivers 342 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: it to you, or you can drop an in a mailbox. 343 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: It is that easy. There's no wonder that more than 344 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: six hundred thousand small businesses are already using stamps dot com. 345 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: Right now, you can sign up for stamps dot com 346 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: and use our promo code stuff for this special offer 347 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: that's a four week trial plus a one dollar bonus 348 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: offtware that includes postage and a digital scale. Don't wait 349 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: get started with stamps dot com today. Go to stamps 350 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: dot com and before you do anything else, click on 351 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: the microphone at the top of the homepage and type 352 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: in stuff that's stamps dot com and enter stuff. So 353 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: that holding situation that we mentioned before, the break in 354 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: Varde Hoo's fortress, which you will also sometimes see translated 355 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: as vardehs varde host Castle was where most of the 356 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: torture used to illicit confessions took place. And there was 357 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: this single room called the witches Hole uh where sort 358 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: of these torturous events happened. And while the use of 359 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: torture was technically illegal before a sentence was passed on 360 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: a prisoner, it was still used both before the sentence 361 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: to gain confessions and then after sentencing there would be 362 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: more torture to produce names of accomplices. One of the 363 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 1: interesting factors in this panic is the influence of two people, 364 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: a husband and a wife, on the confessions of the accused. 365 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: This pair, Ambrosius Rhodius and and Frieder's daughter Rosas, had 366 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,920 Speaker 1: been imprisoned near modern day Oslo before being moved to 367 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: vardahos Flortress. Ambrosius was an astrologer and a physician who 368 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: was considered politically dangerous after having made some accurate predictions 369 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: about military conflicts and his wife, Anne, who was the 370 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: granddaughter of King Frederick the Second, had some sort of 371 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: serious argument with political figures in their hometown. So yeah, 372 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: they were moved to Vardejus because they were considered basically 373 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: enemies of the state at that point. Because the fortress 374 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: was kind of crowded in the sixteen sixties panic, at 375 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: least one of the children imprisoned there shared quarters with 376 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: the Rhodeus couple, and additionally, Anne had a key to 377 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: the witch's whole, and it's documented that Anne spoke with 378 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: both the women and girls who were being held in 379 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: the fortress awaiting trial, and that she talked at length 380 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: with them about demonology and that she encouraged their confessions. 381 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: On the up side, all six of the little girls 382 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: involved in the sixteen sixty two to sixteen sixty three 383 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: panic were acquitted on the grounds that they were too 384 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: young to be held accountable for their actions and that 385 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: they had undoubtedly been influenced by the adult which is 386 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: around them. And over the course of the sixteen sixties 387 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: series of accusations and trials, we mentioned that thirty people 388 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: had been accused. Two women died while being tortured for 389 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: information before they could be sentenced and twenty others were sentenced, 390 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: found guilty and burned at the stake. In twenty eleven, 391 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: the country of Norway made a significant gesture of apology 392 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: and recognition of the people known to have been executed 393 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: for witchcraft. Peter Zumthor, an architect from Switzerland, and Louise Bourgeois, 394 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: a French American artist, worked together to design a memorial 395 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: for the lives that were lost. So this student set 396 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: memorial sits on a piece of remote coastline on the 397 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: Barren Sea, believed to be the site of many of 398 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: the executions and the architect's contribution to the work, which 399 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: is titled Memory Hall, looks like a hundred and fifty 400 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: eight yard or a hundred and forty five meter long 401 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: corridor built at the edge of the sea, but instead 402 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: of exterior walls, it has an open, cross hatched frame. 403 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: That frame, which is made of pines, supports a tunnel 404 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: like silk cocoon, and then within the fabric tunnel is 405 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: a hallway with oak floors. Within the interior are ninety 406 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 1: one lamps and each of them illuminates a window that 407 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: represents one of the executed and an engraving dedicated to 408 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: one of the people killed for witchcraft, including the testimony 409 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: that was used against them. The second part of the memorial, 410 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: which can be entered by visitors once they have passed 411 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: through that long type memorial corridor, is Bourgeoise Creation, and 412 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: it's entitled The Damned, the Possessed, and the Beloved. And 413 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: this element is a black glass room and inside there 414 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: is a chair in the center that burns continuously and 415 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: there are three mirrors mounted above it to create the 416 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 1: illusion of the space being consumed in fire. So it's 417 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: kind of a unique thing. I can't I don't know 418 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: of many other countries that have done anything like this. 419 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: It's quite beautiful. There's some really good pictures online and 420 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: we will have links to those in the show notes. 421 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: But it's an interesting testament to uh, how things have 422 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: changed in their their efforts to kind of they obviously 423 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: cannot fix what has gone before, but to at least 424 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: acknowledge the wrongs that were done and and how misguided 425 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: the attempts to rid the country of evil through witchcraft 426 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: trials were. So that's the the varnto witch trials, Oh, 427 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: which tis like people have such a fascination with which 428 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: trials but they're depressing. They're so depressing they are. It 429 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: breaks my heart if you if you read about you know, 430 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: these little girls, children that were being forced to testify, 431 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: sometimes alongside their mothers and sometimes after their mothers had 432 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: already been killed, and it's there's such brutality to it, 433 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: and it's rough. Do you have some listener mail that's less? 434 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: I do. It's actually fantastic. Yeah, it's very upbeaten, peppy 435 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: if you're me especially. It is from our listener Janet, 436 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: and it is two postcards. I have a one of 437 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: two and a two of two. She says, Hi again, 438 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,239 Speaker 1: Holly and Tracy. I sent you ladies a card from 439 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: Venice recently. But when I got to London and saw 440 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: what the special exhibition at the Victorian Albert was undressed 441 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: a history of underwear, I knew I had to send 442 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: you postcards about it or two. As it turns out, 443 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: I have a nagging feeling you may have already gotten 444 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: list mail about this, but just in case, I'm sending 445 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: uh some myself. This Krineline definitely made me realize afresh 446 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: why they talk about making designing underwear in terms of engineering. 447 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: And it's a lovely photograph of a cage bustle like 448 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: a cage krinoline. UM. And then the second one she says, 449 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: hello again, ladies. I couldn't decide between this postcard and 450 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 1: the one with the cage crinoline, so I'm sending them both. 451 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: I knew a lot about the content covered in the 452 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: Undressed exhibission thanks to my own dabbling in the history 453 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: of fashion and costume design, as well as Holly's Bloomers 454 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: and Beyond podcast, so it was really cool to see 455 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: some examples of the underwear itself, especially of course it's 456 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: etcetera for pregnant women. No postcards of those. Thank you 457 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: again for all your great work. So the second one 458 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: that she sent is UM a photograph of men's underwear 459 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 1: from UH. It's believed Britain in the nineteen fifties, and 460 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: it's just so sort of structured and uncasual in comparison 461 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 1: to modern underwear, but you see the seeds of what 462 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: modern underwear is like. So they you, thank you, Thank you, Uh, Janet. 463 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: These are just lovely and I will say um. A 464 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: friend of the show, Brian Young, went to see this 465 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 1: exhibit and very sweetly brought me back an exhibition catalog, 466 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: so I'm pretty much in heaven. I'm bummed that I'm 467 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: not going to get to see it in person, but 468 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: I'm very delighted and fortunate, and that many people have 469 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:22,719 Speaker 1: sent me materials from it. I feel very yeah yeah, yeah, 470 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 1: I mean, who doesn't want to look at pregnancy course? 471 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: It's I know, I do. I love all of this 472 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,479 Speaker 1: stuff anyway, So if you would like to write to us, 473 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: you can do so at history podcast at how still 474 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: works dot com. You can also find us pretty much 475 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: across the spectrum of social media as at miss in History. 476 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: That's Twitter at msst in History, Instagram at ms in history, 477 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: Facebook dot com, slash missed in History, missed in History 478 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com, and on pinterest as missed in History. 479 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: Basically missed in History will find us on the internet 480 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: if you would like to do some research because you 481 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: are a curious person, you can go to our parents site, 482 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: how stuff Works, type in almost anything you can think 483 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: of in the search bar, and you will churn up 484 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: a delightful assortment of links and content that you can 485 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,959 Speaker 1: explore and keep yourself very very busy and informed. And 486 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: you can visit us at missed in History, dot com, 487 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,879 Speaker 1: where we have show notes for every episode since Tracy 488 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: and I have been working on the podcast together, as 489 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: well as an archive of every episode ever of all 490 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: time of stuff You missed an history class, so please 491 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: visit us on the internet at how stuff works dot 492 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: com and missed industry dot com for more on this 493 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics because it has stuff works 494 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: dot com