Speaker 1: Call it what it is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille
Speaker 1: Luddington an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hi, you look like a Disney princess.
Speaker 3: Name as Jessica Capshaw.
Speaker 2: It's giving Arizona Robbins vibes. By season seven eight, every
Speaker 2: season when people don't notice about you, every single time
Speaker 2: Jessica Capshaw came into our glam trailer before work. You
Speaker 2: would really do a lot of your own hair on
Speaker 2: the show, which is not the norm I did.
Speaker 1: I primarily did because the real reason I did was
Speaker 1: because I will find a picture of it.
Speaker 4: But there was a particularly terrible hairdo.
Speaker 1: That I was given season five, and it actually it
Speaker 1: bridged over from the last episode of season five to
Speaker 1: the first episode of season six.
Speaker 4: Again check my facts, people, I know.
Speaker 3: I was like, here we go.
Speaker 1: But it was like down the middle part with like
Speaker 1: the two top pieces like salacked straight back and like
Speaker 1: firmly secured with bobby pins.
Speaker 4: And then there was some like not cute.
Speaker 1: Beachy waves like pulled out toussled, but more like ringlets, like.
Speaker 4: Like oh yeah, some real ringlets.
Speaker 3: We all have a ringlet season on the show.
Speaker 4: I don't know why anyone lets that happen.
Speaker 3: It was of the time.
Speaker 2: If you love back of the time, It's like all
Speaker 2: those shows are everyone's having those very tight like princess
Speaker 2: princess hair do is not brushed out, You're keeping those
Speaker 2: curls in oh never the bottom.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And then and then we started not curling the ends,
Speaker 1: which was key. That was what made it look like
Speaker 1: a really like the wave.
Speaker 3: Yeah wave yeah.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 2: So is that what started you forever doing your hair
Speaker 2: on the show, because I feel like you kind of
Speaker 2: always did well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I was. Initially it was in response to,
Speaker 1: uh a hair a hair do, I can hate it,
Speaker 1: And then it turned into I had a really long
Speaker 1: drive to work, so I would usually be in the
Speaker 1: car for like forty five minutes to an hour and
Speaker 1: a half if there was traffic, and I didn't want
Speaker 1: to go from sitting down to sitting down, so I
Speaker 1: would stand and I would always go to go to
Speaker 1: go to hair first and I would blow dry my
Speaker 1: hair and then I would sit down and makeup.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bit the bullet because I was on TikTok
Speaker 2: and I got convinced because TikTok makes you buy things.
Speaker 3: The dice and air wrap.
Speaker 4: Oh lordy, it's well, by.
Speaker 2: The way, it's super expensive, so it's taken me time
Speaker 2: to want to commit. Right, that's a very expensive hair situation,
Speaker 2: a piece of a piece of equipment. But people really
Speaker 2: have trouble online doing it. So it's just sitting there
Speaker 2: right now. I've been a little bit intimidated to try
Speaker 2: the whole wraps. I haven't unboxed it, no, and there's
Speaker 2: so many pieces. It's like an inspector gadget of freaking,
Speaker 2: you know, hair styling equipment.
Speaker 4: Like guess what I've been doing this week?
Speaker 3: Tell me.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I don't know that we mentioned this on
Speaker 1: the podcast, but my mother, Kate Capshaw, started her career
Speaker 1: as an actress and we moved to New York City
Speaker 1: when I was a little girl, and she was a
Speaker 1: model first and then she started acting and she got
Speaker 1: her very first movie in New York City, directed by
Speaker 1: Bruce Paltrow and he became one of her bestest friends
Speaker 1: in the whole world. But anyways, so she was doing
Speaker 1: a movie in New York City and I was I
Speaker 1: don't know, five or six, and I just remember it
Speaker 1: being like the most magical thing, like the trailers would
Speaker 1: park along the streets and the trees the way that
Speaker 1: they would bend over the side, and people were walking along,
Speaker 1: and you know, you're disrupting real life to create this
Speaker 1: alternative life.
Speaker 4: And my mom was just like young and beautiful. It's
Speaker 4: just she I against the world.
Speaker 1: And I got hired as a extra in like a
Speaker 1: wedding scene, so I actually got to come to work
Speaker 1: with her one day. Anyways, I have these memories cemented
Speaker 1: in my mind of how ideal and wonderful it is
Speaker 1: to shoot a movie on the streets of New York City,
Speaker 1: and I've always moved towards that. I've always wanted that,
Speaker 1: Like every time a movie is in New York I've
Speaker 1: always been like, oh, I hope I get it, or
Speaker 1: I hope this works out, and just so far, it
Speaker 1: just hasn't been my story. And I got a phone
Speaker 1: call saying, Hey, would you like to come do this
Speaker 1: movie for a couple of days in New York City?
Speaker 1: And I said, yeah, this is going to be like
Speaker 1: the completion of a dream that I've had. And it's
Speaker 1: been as good as I thought it would be walking
Speaker 1: around New York City and coming in and becoming this
Speaker 1: other character and getting all dressed up and all of
Speaker 1: it has been so so, so much fun. And I
Speaker 1: have to say it's been very inspiring to me because
Speaker 1: a lot of times you think of things and you
Speaker 1: think like they're never going to happen. I mean, I
Speaker 1: was like, what five or six, like, what are the
Speaker 1: chances of me being able to become an actress and
Speaker 1: do a movie in New York City? And now here
Speaker 1: I am doing a movie in New York City.
Speaker 2: I have a question because I feel like, here's what
Speaker 2: I'm always curious about. Because they can't shut down all
Speaker 2: of like Fifth Avenue, Ya. So when you're shooting in
Speaker 2: a busy, busy city like that. And by the way,
Speaker 2: guys on Gray's Anatomy, we shoot if we're on location
Speaker 2: there's barely anybody around, we really can sort of shut
Speaker 2: it down more. In Los Angeles we're in neighborhoods, it's
Speaker 2: not the same vibe as New York City, or we're
Speaker 2: on the hospital set where there is nobody else. So on,
Speaker 2: when you're walking down the street shooting in New York City,
Speaker 2: do you have random people just crossing in front of
Speaker 2: you or just staring at you.
Speaker 3: There are ruining the shop.
Speaker 2: I wonder this in like Sex and the City, when
Speaker 2: I'm watching I'm like, how are they shooting any of
Speaker 2: these shows?
Speaker 1: They close down the street that you're working on, or
Speaker 1: we're like the space that you're working on, and then
Speaker 1: they like it's like holding traffic, Like they hold people
Speaker 1: at the perimeter of the space that you're working in,
Speaker 1: and then you know, when you're when you're paused or done,
Speaker 1: then they like let people walk through. But I did
Speaker 1: notice that, you know how like normally on Graze, if
Speaker 1: if we're shooting and you hear, you know, a backup,
Speaker 1: a truck backing up, and you hear the beep beep,
Speaker 1: it's like sound.
Speaker 4: Immediately be like hold for sound. Yes, yes, In New
Speaker 4: York we hold for no one.
Speaker 3: We hold for no one.
Speaker 4: We hold for fucking nothing.
Speaker 1: It can be a five alarm fire, there's ambulances and
Speaker 1: who it does not matter if we were in a
Speaker 1: nail salon two days ago. And and I seem like
Speaker 1: I'm like a crazy person because I'm in the middle
Speaker 1: of talking about like, oh, we'll hold for the plane,
Speaker 1: and they're like, hold for the plane.
Speaker 4: Would you hold the plane?
Speaker 3: Plane? Calm down.
Speaker 4: They're not landing. What are you talking about? Keep it going?
Speaker 2: Yeah, god, that would be hard for us. I know,
Speaker 2: we definitely film in a totally different way, little delicate.
Speaker 3: Someone coughs, it's over.
Speaker 2: Oh, like you know what, you gotta take that whole
Speaker 2: We gotta start the episode yet for sure.
Speaker 4: Yep, yep, go back, go back that. Yeah. Yeah, but
Speaker 4: it's been great and I've been and i've been.
Speaker 1: Christopher is doing a whitewater raft trip with the Big Girls,
Speaker 1: and Luke has started his summer job, and Josie's been
Speaker 1: kind of hanging out and so she came into the
Speaker 1: city yesterday. But I was by myself for like three nights,
Speaker 1: which I also was great because I got to start
Speaker 1: catching up on things to watch. And I was watching
Speaker 1: something and I might have seen your husband.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I love that you said this.
Speaker 2: He is on a show called Presumed Innocent right now
Speaker 2: and Jake John Hall.
Speaker 3: I didn't know.
Speaker 1: It surprised me, so I turned on. Everyone was talking
Speaker 1: about Presumed Innocent and I started watching it. I loved
Speaker 1: the movie. I completely forgot you know, well no spoiler alert.
Speaker 1: It's a murder mystery type situation, and I started watching.
Speaker 1: But I completely forgot who did it? So does Matt
Speaker 1: not do it? Don't tell me, don't let me, just
Speaker 1: let me, just don't tell me.
Speaker 3: It for everybody.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: What is so funny to me is that my husband
Speaker 2: is such a he's the sweetest. He's from the Midwest.
Speaker 2: He's such a sweet guy in real life, and he
Speaker 2: guess cast as bad guys all the time or drug dealers.
Speaker 2: If you've seen him on Thirteen Reasons Why, he's absolutely disgusting.
Speaker 2: He's dealing drugs to some random kids. And then and
Speaker 2: then we both done a Lifetime movie early in our careers.
Speaker 2: I played Princess Kate Middleton. He played a guy that
Speaker 2: was a janitor pimping out all the high school girls
Speaker 2: and so oh, I think it's called walking the Halls.
Speaker 2: He's literally a pimp for the underage. So that's the
Speaker 2: kind of a resume he's knocking up. But he No,
Speaker 2: this is a great I love that you mention it.
Speaker 2: It's a great show.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: By the way, public opinion, do you like when a
Speaker 1: show comes out like all of it at once, like
Speaker 1: the bear just came out and it came all out
Speaker 1: at once, or do you like when they drive one
Speaker 1: every week.
Speaker 2: I like it when they drop a couple every week.
Speaker 2: People are craving the Gray's Anatomy experience again, which our
Speaker 2: show still does. The eighteen episodes, the twenty two episodes
Speaker 2: we have twenty five, We're not people are not getting
Speaker 2: that anymore.
Speaker 3: And I am reading all.
Speaker 2: The time that they consumers are back ready for not
Speaker 2: just to be dropped in a week. You're kind of
Speaker 2: done with the show. It's ten episodes, whatever it is,
Speaker 2: and then you have to wait a couple more years.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: We're all waiting for stranger things. People are waiting for
Speaker 2: euphori Yah. Yeah, I had an equally as glamorous week
Speaker 2: as you, really, which I'm very excited to talk about.
Speaker 2: So you were filming in New York City and you
Speaker 2: were having that moment and you're out and bustling. I
Speaker 2: have mainly been on the couch.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I've been on the couch.
Speaker 2: I think I changed my clothes maybe four times in
Speaker 2: a seven day period. My kids are in camp, and
Speaker 2: so I've been using that time during the day to
Speaker 2: literally just sit with myself.
Speaker 3: We don't have to.
Speaker 2: Do we're not shooting Grace Anatomy right now. We have downtime.
Speaker 2: I have a three weeks until we're back, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: what do I want to watch? Like my God, Like,
Speaker 2: who am I without my children and anybody home? I
Speaker 2: have been in Binge watching Heaven. What I know?
Speaker 3: I just said to tell them.
Speaker 2: You know, they don't want all the episodes dropped at once,
Speaker 2: but when it's like a reality TV show or a documentary,
Speaker 2: I want it all.
Speaker 4: Okay, Okay, okay, okay, So what are you watching?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: So I have been loving my life, uh watching Netflix,
Speaker 2: the top one in they're in the top ten right now.
Speaker 2: There is a documentary series about DCC, the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders,
Speaker 2: and it fought. First off, I love a documentary about
Speaker 2: cheer I don't know what it is. I think it's
Speaker 2: caause I grew up in England and it was just
Speaker 2: like very like fantasy. You know, I grew up with
Speaker 2: watching Bring It On On all those things.
Speaker 1: Is cheerleading or cheer in general? Only American? Does this
Speaker 1: only happen in America?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes, this is not no nobody in No, it's.
Speaker 3: America the origin.
Speaker 4: But that's for another day. Go ahead.
Speaker 2: Yes, So I got sucked into this documentary and It
Speaker 2: follows the tryouts to the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders. There it
Speaker 2: appears to be they're at like their last audition. You
Speaker 2: really find out it's not, but they're at you. They're
Speaker 2: they're doing a dance audition. They've got I don't know,
Speaker 2: I think they're down to like seventy girls something like that.
Speaker 2: And then they do a cut and then you think
Speaker 2: that a bunch of them have made the team and
Speaker 2: they're learning the famous song Thunderstruck that they all run
Speaker 2: out to on the field at the beginning of a
Speaker 2: Dallas Cowboys game, and then they cut more girls. They
Speaker 2: cut one girl because literally she was like too short,
Speaker 2: which is so wild to be how to do not
Speaker 2: know that? From the beginning, they're showing the girls training,
Speaker 2: They're showing their injuries as they go along, the heartbreak,
Speaker 2: the hard work, the dedication, their backstories where they're from.
Speaker 2: They're part of a legendary team. Me from England, I
Speaker 2: knew about the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders. I can't really honestly
Speaker 2: name another cheerleading team. I know that there are others,
Speaker 2: but I feel like that's a super famous one. But
Speaker 2: the documentary is definitely being talked about, and I want
Speaker 2: to talk about it on our show because there's a
Speaker 2: little controversy surrounding it.
Speaker 4: Let's get to it.
Speaker 2: Well, what was really shocking is that you watch them
Speaker 2: training and you're thinking, like, oh my god, these girls,
Speaker 2: it's midnight. They've got to go home. Think I please,
Speaker 2: I want them to rest because they're working so hard.
Speaker 2: They're incredibly talented, and they're waking up to do their
Speaker 2: other jobs and you're wondering, why do you have to
Speaker 2: have another job?
Speaker 4: Where are they on the team right now? Are they
Speaker 4: still trying there?
Speaker 3: So still trying out.
Speaker 2: But even when they make the team, all these girls
Speaker 2: have to have two jobs. They're one job, which is
Speaker 2: the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders, which they seem to practice in
Speaker 2: the evenings.
Speaker 3: More one of the girls.
Speaker 2: For example, on the on the documentary, she is asked
Speaker 2: specifically what she makes and she doesn't want to say
Speaker 2: exactly what she makes. She does have another job supporting herself,
Speaker 2: which is bonkers.
Speaker 1: So these young women are coming out, they're auditioning, they're
Speaker 1: going through how long is the tryout process?
Speaker 2: The tryout process goes on for weeks because before they
Speaker 2: even get to where they get to at the beginning
Speaker 2: of the documentary, they've already gone through a few auditions.
Speaker 2: It appears to be about a three week process once
Speaker 2: you think they've made their team, and then they're even
Speaker 2: making cuts after that before they do their game, and
Speaker 2: then the first game, and then of course there's a
Speaker 2: whole season of football season. Right.
Speaker 4: Who's the organization that runs it is? Is it the
Speaker 4: Dallas Cowboys themselves?
Speaker 1: Like the management team of the football team is also
Speaker 1: running the cheerleading well.
Speaker 2: Charlotte Jones is the Cowboys chief brand officer and daughter
Speaker 2: of owner Jerry Jones, and she's in the documentary a lot.
Speaker 2: And I feel like she's the head, the head of
Speaker 2: the head because she picks the coach.
Speaker 1: So it's an official it's an official piece or arm
Speaker 1: of the Dallas Cowboys franchise.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I want to read to everybody listening a
Speaker 2: little piece on the Huffington Post because they talked about
Speaker 2: a woman who started to cheer for the Cowboys in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one and was asked to remain anonymous. Told
Speaker 2: the Hoffington Post she was paid twelve fifty per hour
Speaker 2: for practices and four hundred for a game. In fact,
Speaker 2: originally she was paid one hundred for appearances in her
Speaker 2: first year, and it increased by one hundred dollars every year,
Speaker 2: and cheerleaders only performed her in home games, but each
Speaker 2: one requires a commitment of more than twelve hours. However,
Speaker 2: I think what is so shocking is that the Cowboys
Speaker 2: organization makes over a billion dollars. Their football players are
Speaker 2: making millions and millions, So the discrepancy is wild.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, the reason why I asked who who's banaging
Speaker 1: it is because these things I feel like they always
Speaker 1: pretty much stick from the head down.
Speaker 4: So I guess why are the cheerleaders not valued?
Speaker 2: Well, here's what I don't like about it. There are
Speaker 2: women in charge of this part of the organization that
Speaker 2: I think should be really rallying around these girls to
Speaker 2: get more money. But part of their reasoning is that
Speaker 2: it's a privilege to be on the team and it's
Speaker 2: a sisterhood, and that's it's a job.
Speaker 1: You get paid for your job. It's not a volunteer position.
Speaker 1: You get paid for your job. You're not showing up.
Speaker 1: Girls definitely taught.
Speaker 2: That they're replaceable and just to put on the uniform
Speaker 2: is payment enough.
Speaker 4: Well, that's that's the call that that's bullshit.
Speaker 2: The Dallas Cowboy football players wearing Dallas Cowboy uniforms, and
Speaker 2: they don't just say to them it's a privilege to
Speaker 2: wear the uniform.
Speaker 1: They do not, And I don't think that they would
Speaker 1: show up if that was the case. I don't think
Speaker 1: they would show up. Okay, So I'm seeing I'm seeing
Speaker 1: here that Charlotte Jones, who is yes again she's the
Speaker 1: daughter of Jerry Jones, responds to this and says there's
Speaker 1: a lot of cynicism around pay for NFL cheerleaders, as
Speaker 1: it should be. They're not paid a lot, but the
Speaker 1: facts are they don't actually come here for the money.
Speaker 1: They come here for something that's actually bigger than that.
Speaker 1: To them, they have a chance to feel like they
Speaker 1: are valued, they are special, and they are making a difference.
Speaker 1: When the women come here, they find their passion and
Speaker 1: they find their purpose.
Speaker 4: This is so it makes me want to It's not
Speaker 4: a club.
Speaker 2: It feels like it's been packaged together in a very
Speaker 2: disgusting little publicity bow. And nobody is afraid. Everyone's afraid
Speaker 2: to speak up.
Speaker 1: No, I think that the way you show that so
Speaker 1: someone is valued in the workplaces you pay them, and
Speaker 1: I think that I would be I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: that would be. That would be my big question for
Speaker 1: the powers that be is I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And in the show me, you don't tell me category
Speaker 1: of life, they're showing you that they don't value these cheerleaders.
Speaker 1: So I mean, if I were those cheerleaders, I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like you Viva la resistance.
Speaker 4: I mean, like that's a strike.
Speaker 2: Well, and here's a thing that is exactly what happened
Speaker 2: with the cheerleaders on the Buffalo Bill's cheerleading squad. They
Speaker 2: were known as the Buffalo Jills. They sued for wage
Speaker 2: violations or working conditions in twenty fourteen, and the Bills
Speaker 2: just shut down the squad entirely.
Speaker 4: Yeah. See, that's what I'm That's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 3: For stories like that.
Speaker 2: It kind of feels like can in your uniform? You're done?
Speaker 2: And by the way, do you want to be the
Speaker 2: one girl that says, hey, should we get paid more?
Speaker 4: It's hard. It's hard to do that.
Speaker 2: It's very hard to do that.
Speaker 4: Have you ever been underpaid?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean, oh for sure. I mean even
Speaker 2: just my waitressing job back in the day. I think
Speaker 2: about how we were paid. We were basically told like,
Speaker 2: you don't make any money hourly and it's just going
Speaker 2: to be from your tips and so you could have
Speaker 2: a shift that was I mean, by the way, in
Speaker 2: any job that I've had, you know, I feel like
Speaker 2: there are moments where you always feel like can I
Speaker 2: may is it time? And it's hard to speak out?
Speaker 2: What about you?
Speaker 4: I think it's very very hard to speak up.
Speaker 1: And I think that mostly it's hard to speak up
Speaker 1: because you're afraid to lose your job. And then if
Speaker 1: you don't lose your job, you're pretty sure that I
Speaker 1: don't know, like nothing's going to happen, Like what, how's
Speaker 1: it going to change? And you'll just find someone else
Speaker 1: to fill in for you.
Speaker 2: And I think that's exactly what this is about. This
Speaker 2: is about them feeling all like they're replaceable.
Speaker 1: I'm having a hard time comparing the cheerleaders to the
Speaker 1: football players because of how like insane the disparity is,
Speaker 1: right like these multi million dollar contracts versus is minimum wage?
Speaker 1: So do you like That's the part that I kind
Speaker 1: of I want to get at with this management situation,
Speaker 1: Like do they care if they lose their cheerleaders.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think they absolutely would care if they lost
Speaker 2: their cheerleaders. I mean they're they're talking at how some
Speaker 2: people come to the game for that right, and they're
Speaker 2: part of the institution, the institution.
Speaker 4: I don't love that the daughter of the owner that
Speaker 4: runs it said what she said.
Speaker 3: No, she's kind of the worst.
Speaker 4: Actually, yeah, I think she's pretty bad.
Speaker 3: And you can question k Yeah, no, I.
Speaker 1: Really well, I think it's I think it's even worse
Speaker 1: because of the language she uses, because I mean, wow,
Speaker 1: even just throwing in there.
Speaker 4: It's about a sisterhood that they're able to form. Like
Speaker 4: when has the guy ever been told that he was
Speaker 4: at work from the brotherhood?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: Oh my god? Can you imagine?
Speaker 2: Something else huge happened this week Jessica.
Speaker 1: Travis Kelsey on stage at the Eras tour with Swift.
Speaker 3: And he was not Yeah he was.
Speaker 2: He was not in the private tent situation where he's been.
Speaker 4: Doing his dance that gets at the arm up. I know.
Speaker 4: It was very people were swoon swoon.
Speaker 2: I mean, I wanted to see every angle. I wanted
Speaker 2: to see if there was another angle from.
Speaker 3: Five miles away from the moon. I needed to see
Speaker 3: the moon.
Speaker 4: I wasn't she wearing a GoPro on her head? I
Speaker 4: wanted the angle.
Speaker 3: I wanted we need drones. Yes, how can I ask you?
Speaker 2: Because I did think of you, Because I was like,
Speaker 2: if I had picked any you know, European city to
Speaker 2: go to, I would have been like maybe I would
Speaker 2: have gone to London.
Speaker 3: But you were in Paris.
Speaker 2: Do you now wish that you had been at the Trappists?
Speaker 2: Oh you're a.
Speaker 3: Tinge of like, Oh man, I was so close.
Speaker 1: I know, right, No, I mean uh I no. I
Speaker 1: loved I loved our show and I loved our whole experience.
Speaker 1: It could not have been any any any better there
Speaker 1: was it was, and I got to see him, and
Speaker 1: I did get to see I mean he They are
Speaker 1: just so lovely. And I'm not one of those people who,
Speaker 1: like I truly am not. I don't like watch people
Speaker 1: from Afar and come up with me, you know in
Speaker 1: my mind like what's going on? I try not to
Speaker 1: do that so often. But they just seem very very happy.
Speaker 1: And I just loved watching him. I mean, listen, Ultimately,
Speaker 1: they're both performers, right, I mean, he's a football player,
Speaker 1: but there's a performance aspect to what he does, and
Speaker 1: he seems very good natured and very game to to
Speaker 1: to have been there, and I just I don't know,
Speaker 1: I thought it.
Speaker 4: Was so sweet, like it just showing up in person.
Speaker 2: Did you feel like there was like equal adoration between
Speaker 2: both of them, like they were actully as yummy for
Speaker 2: the other.
Speaker 1: I did, I did, I did, And she just finished
Speaker 1: an entire show, I mean truly like they I mean,
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have known it, because she really looked like
Speaker 1: she could have kept going on, but like you know,
Speaker 1: I mean sweating and like having done a three hour
Speaker 1: show and of course, like you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: stopping to say hi to us, which was like, oh
Speaker 1: my gosh.
Speaker 4: And again I don't know that my brain was really.
Speaker 1: Working all that well because I was also looking at Josephine,
Speaker 1: like is her her eye is going to pop out
Speaker 1: of her actual head? But he was just so very
Speaker 1: kind and she was and there was it was just
Speaker 1: very It was I Josephine and I were both like
Speaker 1: super gobba smacked, and she couldn't believe that he was there,
Speaker 1: like really couldn't believe that he was there.
Speaker 2: Was there's a trd of me that told me that
Speaker 2: they're secretly engaged.
Speaker 1: That's what everyone's talking about, right, Everyone wants them to
Speaker 1: be engaged. They want to be pregnant, all of it.
Speaker 3: Oh, the whole thing.
Speaker 2: I know people are very much for amazing. The reason
Speaker 2: I loved about it is I feel like Travis Kelsey
Speaker 2: doesn't take himself too seriously, which is very charming.
Speaker 3: And he was gamed to be up there.
Speaker 2: He did the little like, you know, the little blush thing,
Speaker 2: put her on her, trolling her to smile, and you know,
Speaker 2: he's like, you know, using the little fan.
Speaker 3: If you guys haven't.
Speaker 2: Seen this, then it's going to take you to second
Speaker 2: what have you been doing? It's gonna take you two
Speaker 2: seconds to see every angle alive if you go anywhere
Speaker 2: near social media. But I here's what I really love
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 3: Here's the petty in me.
Speaker 2: You want to hear this? Okay, So Taylor and haven't
Speaker 2: been dating for a while, and could she have bought
Speaker 2: him out in Paris?
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 2: Could she have waited? You know, she still has shows
Speaker 2: in Indiana, New Orleans. She could have maybe bought him
Speaker 2: out in Indiana in New Orleans, right, But she did
Speaker 2: it in London.
Speaker 4: I'm picking up what you're putting down, are you?
Speaker 3: Because I'm not just talking about London Boy.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about She's had a handful of Brits in
Speaker 2: her past right now. She's had Calvin Harris, she's had
Speaker 2: London Boy, she's had Tom hittleson there are ham And
Speaker 2: I think the fact that you.
Speaker 3: Oh, Matt Healey whatever his.
Speaker 2: Name is the fact that you bring him out in
Speaker 2: that city the petty and me was like, oh what it?
Speaker 2: Oh any city?
Speaker 3: You're like, you.
Speaker 2: Guys, all those exes, British axes, here's my dude.
Speaker 3: He looks he's.
Speaker 2: Twenty feet tall and he's game, and he's so cute
Speaker 2: and the whole crowd. I mean what I mean, there's
Speaker 2: no way that she did not pick that city on purpose.
Speaker 2: We all know Taylor Swift is so strategic and the
Speaker 2: best way possible, Jesus, the smartest way possible.
Speaker 4: Jesus smarty. I loved it. I loved well. I listen.
Speaker 4: I think that that very well might be. I loved
Speaker 4: the joy.
Speaker 1: They looked like they were having fucking fun. And I
Speaker 1: think that there's that that beginning of a relationship, or
Speaker 1: there's just a really good relationship where you kind of
Speaker 1: have that thing where you only have eyes for each other,
Speaker 1: like when you're looking at that person, everybody goes away,
Speaker 1: but usually it's not, you know, on ninety thousand people
Speaker 1: and you're not on stage at Oneley Stadium.
Speaker 4: But it looked like that.
Speaker 1: They looked like they were looking at each other, and
Speaker 1: it did like nobody else mattered.
Speaker 4: And I think that that that.
Speaker 1: Brand of fun and joy and magic and the fact
Speaker 1: that they got to tell the story together that you know,
Speaker 1: likely she came up while sitting in front of a
Speaker 1: piano and coming up with the whole story and everything else,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden.
Speaker 4: There they are, and it's just so cool, so so cool.
Speaker 1: And also I mean I think that then, like you
Speaker 1: hear everybody else's opinions about it, and this you know
Speaker 1: all of it. And I think the thing that I
Speaker 1: also was struck by was they really they really knew
Speaker 1: how to take care of each other and show up
Speaker 1: for each other, Like it was so apparent that that
Speaker 1: was easy for them, and that's not actually an easy
Speaker 1: thing to do. I mean, she always makes all of
Speaker 1: that look really easy, but it's not easy. And he
Speaker 1: got up there in that tuxedo and picked her up
Speaker 1: and put her down and played the whole drama of
Speaker 1: the scene. I mean I was, I mean truly, I was,
Speaker 1: like like literally eating popcorn on the side, just.
Speaker 2: Watching, And I think that's it. I mean, obviously, it's
Speaker 2: so fun, it's so romantic. We're all loving it. I'm petty,
Speaker 2: and I love the like seek what wink Q to
Speaker 2: maybe any brit X, but like deeper than that, the
Speaker 2: showing up for her in the way that she needs
Speaker 2: clearly and is enjoying and leaning into. I think that
Speaker 2: that's honestly the sexiest thing about Travis Kelsey.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's because when you're in that position,
Speaker 1: it probably feels like there's likely not a lot that
Speaker 1: you get to keep private, and so in a weird way,
Speaker 1: it kind of would invite you to just live your
Speaker 1: life out loud, Okay, Like I mean, I mean, I've
Speaker 1: seen the quotes that he's given, but I love that
Speaker 1: he's just like, this is this is who I'm in
Speaker 1: love with, this is who I'm in love with, and
Speaker 1: this is like, this is where I'm at, And why
Speaker 1: wouldn't I, you know, go up there and be able
Speaker 1: to do that and say that and have that kind
Speaker 1: of fun, and I think it's inspirational. I mean, maybe
Speaker 1: all have people that we would show. I mean, by
Speaker 1: the way, I'm sorry, let's talk about the real for
Speaker 1: a second.
Speaker 4: Do you think he was nervous?
Speaker 1: I think I would be shutting my pants if I've
Speaker 1: got my textingo on.
Speaker 4: I'm standing on stage. This is not my business.
Speaker 1: I now, all of a sudden, I want to lift
Speaker 1: that's coming up out of nowhere, and I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: back down on it again. I gotta get in the
Speaker 1: biggest star in the whole entire world. I'm lifting her up,
Speaker 1: I'm putting her down. There's people screaming, there's cameras everywhere.
Speaker 3: Now wait, like I literally asked, he was walking.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously it went well because I would have known.
Speaker 2: I saw it after the fact that I was thinking
Speaker 2: to myself, God, please on trip, Oh my god, Like
Speaker 2: if you trip and you drop Taylor.
Speaker 4: Swift, Oh yeah, it's over.
Speaker 2: Completely. No, of course, You've got to be so nervous.
Speaker 2: And now I'm gonna laugh because he does. You know,
Speaker 2: he shows up to the shows a lot, and he's gonna,
Speaker 2: you know, be in any show after this.
Speaker 3: People are gonna know that music.
Speaker 2: Break he showed up in and they're gonna be turning
Speaker 2: to the private tent and eyeballing him if he leaves,
Speaker 2: because he'd stays, you know, it's not happening.
Speaker 4: And oh you think that it could be a repeat performance.
Speaker 3: I mean probably not that.
Speaker 2: If you're there, are you praying, Yes, I'm praying, honestly,
Speaker 2: I'm praying for a proposal. I'm praying for an on stage.
Speaker 2: Would it be not romantic? Probably in front of everybody? Yeah, no,
Speaker 2: they should do that privately. For me, Camilla Lunnington, I
Speaker 2: want to be there. I want to see the I
Speaker 2: want to see the lights gleaming off this giant diamond ring.
Speaker 4: For her again.
Speaker 3: I want to go cry with her.
Speaker 2: I want her to ask the whole audience to be
Speaker 2: her bridesmaids and be part of it.
Speaker 4: Get the invite, the whole thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, it was definitely. This was a good week in
Speaker 1: the news for that situation.
Speaker 2: I know people so like, how's your week going, I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, it was really good. So Travis Kelsey
Speaker 2: got off on stage of Taylor's lift and I was like,
Speaker 2: nothing to do with my family, It's more important mat
Speaker 2: it's more important.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
Speaker 4: Here's the thing that I thought was most radically.
Speaker 1: Awesome was that it wasn't just him supporting her, like
Speaker 1: it felt like there was a mutual support. Like they
Speaker 1: looked like they were in their own world having fun
Speaker 1: for each other, Like they understood each other and they
Speaker 1: knew what would make the other one enjoy it even more, like.
Speaker 4: They just it just like it looked like exactly like
Speaker 4: a relationship. Shit, I don't know.
Speaker 3: The royals were there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And by the way, you know what I liked
Speaker 2: about it is I saw did you see the video
Speaker 2: of Prince William doing a little like Yes, he was.
Speaker 3: Doing shake it off.
Speaker 2: He was fully shaking it all.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 2: It was really I was like, look, I have never
Speaker 2: in my life seen Prince William gyrating.
Speaker 3: To anything.
Speaker 4: Hey, I have a question, are we gonna do we
Speaker 4: have any fan questions today?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: What Ryan Bond is about to join us via zoom
Speaker 2: and she says, I'm a mama to two kids under
Speaker 2: five and also a full time paramedic. My fiance works
Speaker 2: from home when he is mentally and physically exhausted after
Speaker 2: being with the kids all day. I try to validate
Speaker 2: his feelings. He always shames me and tells me you're
Speaker 2: never alone with the kids for more than a few
Speaker 2: hours at a time, as if I'm not working an
Speaker 2: intense job to provide for our family. Is there any
Speaker 2: advice you can offer for working moms trying to balance
Speaker 2: work life as well as home life. This is a
Speaker 2: tough one. And by the way, this is right on
Speaker 2: our subject, Jess of support in relationships. Ye showing up
Speaker 2: and supporting. Okay, so we need to bring it in.
Speaker 2: We just read your question to our listeners. First off,
Speaker 2: congratulations on having two little ones.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: And it sounds like you have a crazy job and
Speaker 2: being a paramedic.
Speaker 3: I have so much that job.
Speaker 2: So tell us a little more about what's going on.
Speaker 2: How long have you guys been together?
Speaker 3: For five years?
Speaker 2: And then what is his frustration when you when you
Speaker 2: try to validate his feelings? What is his what is
Speaker 2: his frustration with you?
Speaker 5: He doesn't think that I understand the whole aspects of
Speaker 5: him being home with the kids, and you know, I'm
Speaker 5: home with them for a few hours after I get
Speaker 5: home from work and then they're in bed. I don't
Speaker 5: I don't know why he gets so frustrated when I
Speaker 5: try and uh like say that I feel him and
Speaker 5: I understand. I think he just doesn't think I get
Speaker 5: what he's going through.
Speaker 4: Have you asked him what what would feel good?
Speaker 1: I mean, if validating his feelings of being you know,
Speaker 1: exhausted doesn't feel yeah to him would feel good.
Speaker 5: I mean, I've like offered, you know, I'll stay home,
Speaker 5: you know, on sick time and take the kids, you
Speaker 5: go out, you go do your thing, or take a nap,
Speaker 5: but he doesn't take naps, and you know he has
Speaker 5: work to.
Speaker 1: Do and it's exhaust Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, having
Speaker 1: having two kids under five is no joke. It's really
Speaker 1: a lot of work for for you know, for everybody.
Speaker 4: So where are you at with it now? I mean,
Speaker 4: are you is it same place? Does it mostly feel
Speaker 4: mad or sad.
Speaker 3: For me or for him? That's question?
Speaker 5: Jess. Yeah, I think for him more mad. For me,
Speaker 5: I guess more sad.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Both of them are already in a preschool during the day,
Speaker 2: and yeah, does that take up a large chunk of
Speaker 2: the day. That kind of relieves him a little bit.
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, I understand even and whether they're a
Speaker 2: preschool for forever. It still yeah, feels like you're you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I leave the house before anybody else is up.
Speaker 3: So he takes them to preschool.
Speaker 5: They get dropped off at like seven, and then he
Speaker 5: picks them up at like five thirty in the afternoon.
Speaker 5: So from five thirty until like seven thirty unless I
Speaker 5: have a late call and don't get home until later,
Speaker 5: is what he has alone with them.
Speaker 3: Here's something about guys.
Speaker 2: I sometimes I feel like the practical works with men
Speaker 2: a little bit more so it's like, what what do
Speaker 2: you need? Because I'm telling you, I understand how you're feeling,
Speaker 2: and you that's not helping you in any way. And
Speaker 2: I understand that sometimes even those two hours, by the way,
Speaker 2: I call them like the twilight hours, because with kids
Speaker 2: it can be really hard, yeah, and at that time,
Speaker 2: and they're not easy hours even though they're just two hours.
Speaker 2: I wonder if it's on Sundays, would it help if
Speaker 2: I if we together food prep a little bit for
Speaker 2: the kids and shove you know, makes a bunch of
Speaker 2: burritos and shove it in the freezer, would that help you?
Speaker 2: What is something practical we can do that will help you?
Speaker 1: Life partnership marriage, it's like, it's actually never, it's it's
Speaker 1: always going to need your attention with regards to how
Speaker 1: you communicate, right, because it's never gonna there's gonna be
Speaker 1: easy stuff. There's an easy times, there's gonna be hard times.
Speaker 1: But how you communicate is the only thing you can
Speaker 1: kind of control.
Speaker 4: So the way you speak to each other.
Speaker 1: And I think that that it sounds to me like
Speaker 1: in your letter, you know, whenever I see people say
Speaker 1: always and never, I'm like, oh, we're there, right, because
Speaker 1: we're at the point or were like, it's always.
Speaker 4: Like this, it's never gonna be okay.
Speaker 1: And when we start using words like that, I think
Speaker 1: we almost done. Some level are already playing out where
Speaker 1: this conversation goes right, and it doesn't allow.
Speaker 4: For there to be a fix.
Speaker 1: That doesn't allow there to be an opportunity to say, like,
Speaker 1: you know what if we try it this way, it's
Speaker 1: just it's always the foregone conclusion. So I would say,
Speaker 1: first of all, like, how do you get back to
Speaker 1: rolling back.
Speaker 4: The always in the nevers?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Like, how do we make this so that there could
Speaker 1: be a different outcome. It sounds like you guys have
Speaker 1: gotten into a little bit of a of a of a.
Speaker 5: Recycler, and yeah, usually the conversations go the exact same
Speaker 5: way every time. Yeah, so yeah, I've just gone to
Speaker 5: the conclusion that that's how they're always going to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that it sounds like maybe you
Speaker 1: need to or it could be an option to look
Speaker 1: at him and say, in a quiet moment, when maybe
Speaker 1: the kids are asleep, how do we hit the reset button? Like,
Speaker 1: can we hit the reset button? And whether it's by
Speaker 1: yourself and writing it down or me by myself or
Speaker 1: us just calm me talking about the practical things that
Speaker 1: we can do to lighten our load.
Speaker 4: But I let's start with the basics.
Speaker 1: I love you, and you and I were here first,
Speaker 1: So how do we keep this.
Speaker 5: In Yeah, we go on vacation tomorrow, so hopefully.
Speaker 1: Yes, Well hit the reset button. There, oh my god,
Speaker 1: please hit the reset button. Hit the reset button, come
Speaker 1: back and come back with strategy. It won't happen magically,
Speaker 1: but hit the reset button, come up with the plan,
Speaker 1: and then work the plan. Because also your last question,
Speaker 1: it's like for working moms trying to balance work life
Speaker 1: and home life. There, I'm sorry, it's my truth, but
Speaker 1: it's there's no balance. It's only compromise. On any given day,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a better mom or you're gonna be
Speaker 1: a better person in the workplace. But it's never you
Speaker 1: can't do both at the same time. But I actually
Speaker 1: I have to say, looking at your face on the zoom,
Speaker 1: I have great comfift and send you. You look like
Speaker 1: someone who wants this to be better. And if you
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to go away, yeah, you do.
Speaker 4: You do. I can see it.
Speaker 1: So you now have an opportunity to go away and
Speaker 1: be with and look, it's also hard to forget, like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, that's your boyfriend. Remember that was your
Speaker 1: boyfriend before he was also the dad and everything else.
Speaker 1: So go and have some fun.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I also think just before we go, I think that
Speaker 2: there's two things. I think that sometimes we want to say,
Speaker 2: like I get it that it's so hard, But I
Speaker 2: think sometimes it's helpful to say I don't get it.
Speaker 2: You're right, I'm not with them as many hours as you.
Speaker 2: And this sounds I'm hearing from you how tough it is.
Speaker 2: I'm so I can't fully understand this experience.
Speaker 3: We love a zoom.
Speaker 4: You hear about the vacation.
Speaker 5: Yes, I have no idea where we're going, so surprised. Yeah,
Speaker 5: oh my god, passport.
Speaker 3: Oh very romantic, like we're none.
Speaker 2: If you started with that, we would have logged off
Speaker 2: because this sounds amazing.
Speaker 3: We'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 2: Okay, good luck with Brian to you and your family,
Speaker 2: and I hope you get some relaxing time, both you
Speaker 2: and your husband or fancy.
Speaker 1: By Morgan wrote us, and she said a year ago,
Speaker 1: I caught feelings for a coworker who is twelve years
Speaker 1: older than me. I told him my feelings in April
Speaker 1: and he said he wanted to take things slow. How
Speaker 1: do I know if things are moving just slow enough
Speaker 1: or if he's stringing me along? I have a couple
Speaker 1: things to say, Well, I want.
Speaker 2: To know their actual ages.
Speaker 1: Well, I think maybe the most important part of the
Speaker 1: story is that they are having a workplace situation, which
Speaker 1: I think is very important for people to understand.
Speaker 4: Is something that is very tricky and likely.
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know where they work, but likely
Speaker 1: there needs to be sort of a certain order of things,
Speaker 1: and I don't I think you need to take out
Speaker 1: the variables of actually like I mean, if he's older
Speaker 1: maybe he knows there are rules to this, maybe he
Speaker 1: does not know there are rules to this. But I
Speaker 1: think that ultimately this is not enough to go on
Speaker 1: and I feel like this, I feel like Morgan needs
Speaker 1: to get curious and ask some more questions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the hard thing is is like there's
Speaker 2: a part of me that's just like just fucking ask
Speaker 2: like are you like do you see a future or
Speaker 2: do you not? And I feel real instinct is like
Speaker 2: we know, we ignore sometimes we ignore the instinct, but
Speaker 2: we still know. And so I feel like if you
Speaker 2: streight up kind of like you'll find out the answer,
Speaker 2: you'll be out a tall.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there needs to be some questions. We need some
Speaker 1: We need questions with follow up questions.
Speaker 2: Why don't you read Anna? Because Anna's reminding me of
Speaker 2: our Taylor Swift Javis Kelsicker.
Speaker 3: It's such a.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: Anna says my ex would never post me on social
Speaker 1: media ever in the.
Speaker 4: Eight years we were together.
Speaker 1: Eight years we were together, he would post everyone else
Speaker 1: but me and hide me like a secret. My new
Speaker 1: man posts me, flunts me and is proud to be
Speaker 1: with me and show me off. Is not posting your
Speaker 1: significant other a red flag.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, we just talked about this.
Speaker 4: It's a big old, big old red flag. It's a big, big, big, big,
Speaker 4: big big big one the grid.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do like a little grid dance. This is
Speaker 2: the grid.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm gonna do that. I'm not one.
Speaker 3: It's not on the grid.
Speaker 2: You don't exist, it's not happening eight years and you're
Speaker 2: not on the grid.
Speaker 4: That actually almost seems criminal.
Speaker 2: Yes, And you know what, after we talked about the grid,
Speaker 2: we got a lot of responses on social media saying,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm not on so and so's grid,
Speaker 2: what does that mean? Or yes, I was never on
Speaker 2: the grid and it was a total red flag that
Speaker 2: I ignore it, And now I realize it is a rule.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a red X. It's a big fat no.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's the past. Is in the past,
Speaker 1: and you don't need to like beat yourself up about it.
Speaker 1: But eight years is a very long time, and.
Speaker 4: Usually your grid is also just a representation of what
Speaker 4: you're spending your time on. So look at it that way.
Speaker 4: Is he not spending his time with you if he's
Speaker 4: spending time anyone.
Speaker 2: Else on the grid. Like listen, some people use their
Speaker 2: social media purely for business, right, Like it's there. They
Speaker 2: own a gym and they're doing their workouts on there,
Speaker 2: Like that's fine. It's a different thing. But it's all
Speaker 2: if you know, Joe is on there, and Brad's on there,
Speaker 2: and you knows on there except you. Yes, it's a
Speaker 2: it's a red flat. And we're talking this whole episode
Speaker 2: about well some of this episode about being able to
Speaker 2: show up. And I think what's super charming about Travis
Speaker 2: not to go back to Travis and Taylor, but we
Speaker 2: may have to, is that it's like that public that
Speaker 2: public declaration is adorable, and it looks it looks like
Speaker 2: those two people are in it, and you want to
Speaker 2: I think it's publicly if he's posting about being in
Speaker 2: it with his friends and doing other things and or
Speaker 2: she is and yeah, big red flag.
Speaker 4: Sorry guys, Yeah.
Speaker 2: If you disagree, let us know. If you disagree, you
Speaker 2: want to hear from you and tell us why.
Speaker 1: Ye ye, okay, call it crew. What are we gonna
Speaker 1: call this? I think we're gonna call this be the
Speaker 1: end of the episode.
Speaker 3: End of the episode,