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Speaker 1: You're listening to the I Heart Radio and Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast a and Paranormal podcast Network, where we offer you

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Speaker 1: podcasts of the supernatural and the unexplained. Getting ready now

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Speaker 1: for Shades of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: our podcast. Please be aware of the thoughts and opinions

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Speaker 1: expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions only

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Speaker 1: and do not reflect those of I Heart Media, I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio, Coast to Coast AM, employees of Premier Networks,

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Speaker 1: or their sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage

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Speaker 1: you to do your own research and discover the subject

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Speaker 1: matter for yourself. Hi. I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty

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Speaker 1: five years, I've been on a journey to prove the

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Speaker 1: existence of life after death. On each episode, will discuss

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Speaker 1: the reasons we now know that our loved ones have

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Speaker 1: survived physical death and so will we Welcome to Shades

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Speaker 1: of the Afterlife. Do you ever get nervous talking to

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Speaker 1: someone about the afterlife? We don't know what their religious

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Speaker 1: beliefs are, right, so we tread very carefully on what

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Speaker 1: we say. Although I was raised Catholic and went to

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Speaker 1: every year of school in Catholic school. I would consider

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Speaker 1: myself spiritual but not religious. However, there are some people

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Speaker 1: ultra religious and believe that the Bible is on the

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Speaker 1: word of God, and that if you do any kind

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Speaker 1: of afterlife communication, you are going against God and you

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Speaker 1: are going against the Bible. Have you met these people?

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Speaker 1: They are out there, and I never wish to offend

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Speaker 1: or push my beliefs on anyone, but I do feel

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Speaker 1: that we human beings need to use our own instincts

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Speaker 1: to know what's true for us and what's not. There

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Speaker 1: are people that live for the Bible, nothing wrong with it.

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Speaker 1: But between you and me, did you know that the

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Speaker 1: first many hundred years, the Bible was passed down verbally.

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Speaker 1: These stories were shared for hundreds of years before they

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Speaker 1: started being written down. Then manuscripts were written by everyday people,

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Speaker 1: not from professionals, and over time they kept getting shared.

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Speaker 1: You know how the telephone game goes. You tell a story,

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Speaker 1: then your friend tells the story, and then another person

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Speaker 1: tells the story, and how much truth is in it

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Speaker 1: with the end resolve it's not one true to the

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Speaker 1: word of God. For instance, I think we've all heard

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Speaker 1: the story of Jesus talking to a mob of people

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Speaker 1: that were about to stone a woman, and him saying,

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Speaker 1: let any among you without sin cast the first stone. Right.

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Speaker 1: We've heard that from the Gospel of John. However, that

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Speaker 1: story was not originally in the Bible. It was inserted

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Speaker 1: about three hundred years later. Also, the gospels tell the

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Speaker 1: story about how Jesus rose from the dead on the

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Speaker 1: third Day and appeared to various people. Did you know

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Speaker 1: that it is in the Gospel of Mark, But it

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Speaker 1: wasn't originally in the Gospel of Mark. Someone put it

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Speaker 1: in feeling like the other gospels had it, it should

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Speaker 1: also appear within Mark. I'm not a biblical scholar, but

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Speaker 1: many people have done so much research in different ways

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Speaker 1: about how the Bible has changed. Also, people have studied

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Speaker 1: afterlife communication in the Bible. Yes, it's in there, but

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that believe the Bible says

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't talk to the dead. I had the unfortunate

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Speaker 1: experience early on sharing with a woman who I thought

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Speaker 1: was a friend about my early afterlife research, and she

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Speaker 1: quickly got a group of her friends together and had

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Speaker 1: a prayer circle for me to cast out the demons

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Speaker 1: within me that had me wanting to talk to the dead,

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Speaker 1: and instead of getting upset, I realized, you know what, Sandra,

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Speaker 1: this isn't for everyone. Know your audience before you start sharing.

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Speaker 1: While this is not an e pisode about the afterlife

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Speaker 1: and the Bible, I want to rest your mind a little.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people want to hear more about near

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Speaker 1: death experiences. I had an earlier conversation with Pastor John Burke. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I said, pastor who is the lead pastor of the

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Speaker 1: Gateway Church in Austin, Texas. He's also the author of

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Speaker 1: the New York Times bestselling book called Imagine Heaven. Pastor

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Speaker 1: John has researched over a thousand near death experiences and

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Speaker 1: has related them to what's written in the Bible. So

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Speaker 1: I thought this would be interesting and just give you

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Speaker 1: a little backbone. Again, never to push your beliefs on anyone,

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Speaker 1: but there is absolutely nothing wrong with afterlife communication, believing

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Speaker 1: in life after death, etcetera. If you love the Bible.

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Speaker 1: So is my conversation with Pastor John Burke. It actually

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Speaker 1: began with my dad's death. My dad was dying of

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Speaker 1: cancer and I was a skeptic. You know. I had

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Speaker 1: had a little church background, just enough to inoculate me

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Speaker 1: and make me say, I don't know if I believe

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Speaker 1: this stuff, you know it? Uh. You know, I ended

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Speaker 1: up studying engineering, becoming an engineer, so I have a

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Speaker 1: very analytical mind. I like to know why. I'm always

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Speaker 1: questioning and uh. And I had a lot of questions

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Speaker 1: and it didn't seem like anybody could really answer my

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Speaker 1: questions or wanted to. So I was skeptical about God,

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Speaker 1: about Jesus, the whole deal. And my dad is dying

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Speaker 1: of cancer. And I saw a book on his nightstand

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Speaker 1: called Life After Life. It was the first book that

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Speaker 1: coined the term near death experience. Yeah, and I picked

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Speaker 1: it up and I read it in one sitting that night,

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Speaker 1: and at the end of it, I said, oh, my gosh, Jesus,

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Speaker 1: you're real. That was what I said. And because so

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Speaker 1: many people had in the book talked about when they died,

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Speaker 1: when their their hearts stopped or there, you know, brain

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Speaker 1: waves ceased, and yet they came alive like they had

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Speaker 1: never come alive before. And so many of them, uh,

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Speaker 1: saw this brilliant Man of light. Many of them knew

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Speaker 1: to be Jesus, others you know, didn't know, but new God.

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Speaker 1: And it was enough to kind of shake my skepticism

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Speaker 1: to go, I need to find out more. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, that really started me on a spiritual search.

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Speaker 1: And as you said, I mean, uh, it's been years

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Speaker 1: and now it's been thirty five years, and that led

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Speaker 1: me from engineering actually into ministry and casting. My wife

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Speaker 1: and I started a church really for skeptics endoubters like me.

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Speaker 1: That yeah, I mean, Gateway Church was created for people

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Speaker 1: like me. And it's it is funny because as we

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Speaker 1: were talking about a little bit before the broadcast, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm a musician and an engineer. This weird mix, but

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Speaker 1: that is Austin. Austin is the live music capital of

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Speaker 1: the world and it's full of high tech engineers. So

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Speaker 1: our churches, uh, you know, for people like me who

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Speaker 1: have questions and doubts and struggles but open minded and

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Speaker 1: willing to seek. So so imagine heaven actually started, you know,

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Speaker 1: thirty five years ago when I began this spiritual journey.

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Speaker 1: And since then, I've read or studied or interviewed about

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Speaker 1: a thousand near death experiences. And at the same time,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've been a seminary and I've I've studied

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Speaker 1: the Bible in depth and taught it, and I decided

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Speaker 1: to try to bring the two together. And you know

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Speaker 1: what I started to see is these thousand stories are

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Speaker 1: actually showing us. They're giving up our imagination, UM, a

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Speaker 1: way to picture what I think the Bible has promised

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Speaker 1: all along. Most people I find have a horrible view

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Speaker 1: of heaven. I mean, you know, like sitting around on

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Speaker 1: clouds listening to heart music and you know, wish you

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Speaker 1: brought a magazine and I did too. And what I

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Speaker 1: found is, no, it is it is life, and it's

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Speaker 1: life like we've always meant for it to be. Seeing

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Speaker 1: all these I decided to write about it. And it

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Speaker 1: just so happened that I finished the manuscript UM as

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Speaker 1: my mom was dying, so kind of two strange bookends.

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Speaker 1: And my mom had had been through Alzheimer's and she

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Speaker 1: couldn't even feed herself. We had to feed her, and

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Speaker 1: she hadn't recognized us in a couple of years, and

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Speaker 1: she was dying. She was in the hospital, and my

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Speaker 1: sister and I took turns uh, you know, being with her,

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Speaker 1: and while we did, I read the manuscript to my

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Speaker 1: mom and to my sister, and at the end, my

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Speaker 1: sister said, I want to go with her, and I said, no,

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Speaker 1: you can't, because God's got a purpose for you here still. Um.

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Speaker 1: But it was such a beautiful thing because you know,

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Speaker 1: as we'll talk about, when you die, you come alive

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Speaker 1: and and many times the person is still there in

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Speaker 1: the room. Um. And that's how so many skeptical doctors

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Speaker 1: and other skeptics have been convinced. It's what convinced me

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Speaker 1: that this is real and there really is life after death.

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Speaker 1: We waited, and we were there when my mom breathed

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Speaker 1: her last and my sister and I were hugging each

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Speaker 1: other and we were blessing her because we knew in

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Speaker 1: that moment, you know, we hadn't really been able to

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Speaker 1: talk for years, and yet we knew in that moment,

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Speaker 1: you know, she would be there, more alive than ever before,

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Speaker 1: and hear us just blessing her for you know, she

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Speaker 1: was a single mom to us for many years and

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Speaker 1: just you know, wanted to tell her how grateful we were.

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Speaker 1: So it was kind of an amazing book end of

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Speaker 1: my my father's death and my mom's death. And actually

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Speaker 1: I like to say that their graduation. You can't take

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Speaker 1: away grief, you know, we can't. We have to go

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Speaker 1: through grief because you know there is there is some

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Speaker 1: thing wrong in this world. You know, we feel it,

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Speaker 1: we know there's something missing, and to be separated, even

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Speaker 1: if for a short amount of time, for from our

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Speaker 1: loved ones, it does cause grief and you can't get

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Speaker 1: around that. But there's hope. There can be hope in

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Speaker 1: that grief because you know, as I'm trying to show

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Speaker 1: in Imagine Heaven, this life is not the end. It's

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Speaker 1: the beginning. It's the introduction to the first chapter of

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Speaker 1: the real life that we were intended to live. And

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Speaker 1: that's what people consistently say when they clinically die and

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Speaker 1: yet are resuscitated. What I've tried to do is look

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Speaker 1: at the commonalities that you see across the thousand near

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Speaker 1: death experiences. I studied in different cultures, different age groups,

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Speaker 1: and it's amazingly consistent, and it's amazing the way it

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Speaker 1: lines up, Like I said, with what have found. The

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Speaker 1: Bible has been teaching all along, but people don't take

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Speaker 1: the time to really study it or really try to

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Speaker 1: imagine it. As a result, you know, we don't don't

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Speaker 1: really live this life to the fullest because we don't

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Speaker 1: realize there's really nothing. We don't need to fear, and

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Speaker 1: we don't need to be anxious, and we don't need

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Speaker 1: to worry so much. You know, it gives you a

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Speaker 1: bigger perspective. But what I was trying to do is

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Speaker 1: when you see and hear through the hundred or so

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Speaker 1: people that I that I put in the book, and

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Speaker 1: I let you hear through their words, what you begin

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Speaker 1: to see is this panoramic picture of what heaven is

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Speaker 1: going to be like, and by the end you feel

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Speaker 1: a little bit like you've been there. The first commonality

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Speaker 1: is that people come alive, like I said, So I

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Speaker 1: write in chapter two of Imagined Heaven about skeptical doctors

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Speaker 1: in the afterlife, and like I said, what convinced so

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Speaker 1: many skeptical doctors is that when people die, they say

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Speaker 1: they actually left their bodies, but they were still themselves

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Speaker 1: and they were there present in the room, actually watching

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Speaker 1: the resuscitation events. We're going to go into our first

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Speaker 1: break now because Pastor John Burke has a lot to

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Speaker 1: say about this. He's the author of Imagine Heaven. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandras Champlain, and

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Speaker 1: we are hearing from pastor John Burke. He was just

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Speaker 1: about to tell us about doctors in the operating room.

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Speaker 1: One cardiologist, Dr Michael Sabam, who I interviewed, He said

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Speaker 1: that he didn't think there was anything as such as

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Speaker 1: a near death experience. He said, but then he asked

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Speaker 1: one of his patients, Pete, if anything happened during this

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Speaker 1: cardiac arrest, and then he said, Pete told me he

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Speaker 1: had left his body during this first cardiac arrest and

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Speaker 1: had watched the resuscitation. Sabam said, when I asked him

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Speaker 1: to tell me what exactly he saw, he described the

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Speaker 1: resuscitation with such detail and accuracy I could have later

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Speaker 1: used the tape to teach physicians. And he talks about

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Speaker 1: how he began to interview more and more and he said,

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Speaker 1: these people like Pete Morton, you know, saw details of

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Speaker 1: the resuscitation that could not otherwise have seen. One patient

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Speaker 1: noticed the physician who failed to wear scuffs over his

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Speaker 1: white shoes during open heart surgery. He said, in many

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Speaker 1: cases I was able to go back and confirm the

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Speaker 1: patient's testimony with the medical records and the hospital staff,

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Speaker 1: and we see this again and again. Save them published

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Speaker 1: in the Journal of the American Medical Association. So he

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Speaker 1: published his findings. Uh Dr Pim van Lammel reads about

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Speaker 1: them in um in Holland and he starts asking some

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Speaker 1: of his patients, and one that he talks about was

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Speaker 1: published in the Lancet, which is kind of the premier

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Speaker 1: journal of medicine in Europe. Where a guy came into

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Speaker 1: the hospital and he had been unconscious. He wasn't breathing,

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Speaker 1: his heart had stopped, and so they start CPR and

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Speaker 1: the nurse noticed that he had dentures, and so they

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Speaker 1: took his dentures out before ventilating them and put it

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Speaker 1: in the lower drawer of the crash cart. His heart

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Speaker 1: started beating, but he never became conscious in the e er.

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Speaker 1: They moved him out of the room and he was

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Speaker 1: unconscious for a week in this other room. When he

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Speaker 1: comes to, he recognizes the nurse who uh and says,

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Speaker 1: that's the nurse who knows where my dentures are. That's

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Speaker 1: the nurse that put my dentures in the lower drawer

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Speaker 1: of the crash car because they couldn't find his dentures.

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Speaker 1: These stories are actually very common that when people die,

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Speaker 1: we leave our bodies, but we feel more alive than

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Speaker 1: we've ever felt before, not just with five senses, but

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Speaker 1: they talk about how it's more like you have fifty senses.

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Speaker 1: It's like you are super alive. And one of the

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Speaker 1: other commonalities is people don't want to come back because

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Speaker 1: this life ends up feeling more like the shadow, and

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Speaker 1: that feels like to concrete, real existence we were intended for.

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Speaker 1: And I talked about how I believe in the Bible. Paul, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, the apostle Paul who wrote a good chunk

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Speaker 1: of the New Testament. He actually was a skeptic as well,

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Speaker 1: and was arresting Christians and throwing them in prison. You know,

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Speaker 1: he was a Jewish rabbi. But what he has this

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Speaker 1: encounter with this brilliant man of light who that's another

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Speaker 1: commonality of these near death experiences, and that turns him around,

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Speaker 1: you know, Uh, this encounter with Jesus that turns him around,

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Speaker 1: and he you know, he goes around, you know, starting

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Speaker 1: churches across the Mediterranean. Well, at one point a crowd

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Speaker 1: turns on him and they stone him to death. And

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Speaker 1: it says they stoned Paul and dragged him out of town,

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Speaker 1: thinking he was dead, but as the believers gathered around him,

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Speaker 1: he got up and went back into the town. And

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Speaker 1: I actually believe Paul had a near death experience. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he was dead enough to drag him out and leave

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Speaker 1: him for dead, and then he gets back up and

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Speaker 1: runs back in. Now, personally I wouldn't go back into

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Speaker 1: the town. That just don't. But but he does, and

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Speaker 1: then he later Paul says in Second Corinthians twelve too,

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Speaker 1: talking about himself, he says, I was caught up to

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Speaker 1: the Third Heaven fourteen years ago. Whether I was in

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Speaker 1: my body or out of my body, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Only God knows. But I know I was caught up

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Speaker 1: into paradise and hurt. Things so astounding they cannot be

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Speaker 1: expressed in words, things no human is allowed to tell.

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Speaker 1: And I think he's talking about how what people who

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Speaker 1: have had near death experiences say that, like they still

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Speaker 1: had a body, So he didn't know if he was

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Speaker 1: in his body or ound of body, because he felt alive.

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Speaker 1: And that is one of the commonalities. Another one is

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Speaker 1: that we see each other, we're ourselves, we recognize each other,

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Speaker 1: there's this incredible reunion, this welcoming committee many times there

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Speaker 1: to greet us and welcome us, and there are most

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Speaker 1: commonly our friends and our relatives, those who have gone

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Speaker 1: on before us. I'd like to say it like this,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it's ironic that people I find

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Speaker 1: people fear Heaven and fear God many times as in uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh, just want to push him away because

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Speaker 1: somehow they think he wants to take love and take

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Speaker 1: relationship from us. And yet nothing could be further from

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Speaker 1: the truth. God created us for love first with himself.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's what Jesus taught that if you love

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Speaker 1: God with all you've got and then love people, that

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Speaker 1: sums up all the commands of the Bible, sums it

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Speaker 1: all up right there. And so to think that heaven

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Speaker 1: where things are finally where God's will is done. You know,

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Speaker 1: Jesus taught us to pray your will be done on

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Speaker 1: earth as it is in heaven. And he taught us

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Speaker 1: to pray that because his will is not always done

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Speaker 1: on earth, but it is in heaven. So to think

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Speaker 1: that where God's will is done, we would somehow be

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Speaker 1: less alive, less ourselves, less loving, less relational doesn't make

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Speaker 1: any sense. And yet I find that's the common view

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Speaker 1: people have. But what near death experiences teach us is

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Speaker 1: that no, it's a big reunion. It's a huge celebration,

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Speaker 1: you know, like yeah, And I mean Jesus said this.

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Speaker 1: He said this to to to his closest friends the

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Speaker 1: night before his crucifixion. He said, look, don't don't be troubled.

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Speaker 1: He said, there's there's more than enough room in my

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Speaker 1: father's home, and I'm going to prepare a place for you.

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Speaker 1: When everything is ready, I'll come and get you so

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Speaker 1: that you will always be with me where I am.

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Speaker 1: And he talked about how we're gonna drink wine and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna eat, and we're gonna celebrate. It's going to

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Speaker 1: be this party. And I mean, how many people really

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Speaker 1: think about heaven as a party? Not too many? Not

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Speaker 1: too many, right, I mean most people think of heaven

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Speaker 1: as as an extended eternal church of us. That sounds

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Speaker 1: bad to me. And I'm a pastor, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's not it. It's gonna be life, Jesus said, It's

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Speaker 1: going to be abundant life. Um. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: the hope that we we have really is. We were

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Speaker 1: meant to be together, we were meant to love God,

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Speaker 1: and we were meant to love others, and that's really

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Speaker 1: what heaven is all about. But it's not less life,

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Speaker 1: and it's not going to be born, No, I don't

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Speaker 1: think so. And from what you mentioned about people that

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Speaker 1: you know you've interviewed, I've interviewed a bunch of people

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Speaker 1: that have had the near death experience and they say

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Speaker 1: that there are no words to fully describe the experience,

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Speaker 1: and there is so much intense, wonderful, unconditional love, and

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Speaker 1: a few of them have tried to explain it, and

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Speaker 1: you know that even their explanations filled me with love

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Speaker 1: just to even imagine that well exactly, and that that's

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Speaker 1: what I was trying to do in imagine heaven, because

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Speaker 1: I had read and studied all these stories and and

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Speaker 1: what the scripture says, and I've felt like people don't

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Speaker 1: have this view, and until you hear it, you you know,

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Speaker 1: if you've if you've interviewed enough, you've you've heard them

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Speaker 1: struggling for words, you know, like, um, they'll say, I

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Speaker 1: mean there was time, but I don't know if it

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Speaker 1: lasted eternity or a second right. That's exactly what Peter

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Speaker 1: said in second Peter three nine. He said to the Lord,

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Speaker 1: a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand

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Speaker 1: years like a day. They talk about colors and this

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Speaker 1: light that is beyond the spectrum of light that we

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Speaker 1: have here on earth. Um colors that just mesmerize the

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Speaker 1: way beyond our color spectrum, and light that is palpable

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Speaker 1: um light that conveys love, and light that conveys life.

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Speaker 1: And here's what I find fascinating. So um, I interviewed

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Speaker 1: three blind people that I put imagine heaven and blind

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Speaker 1: people when they have a cardiac arrest when they die,

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Speaker 1: they can see and they're trying to describe the same thing.

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Speaker 1: But listen to this. So so Vicky is one blind person.

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Speaker 1: She had a bad car accident, flatlined and she was

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Speaker 1: watching the doctors working on her and thought to herself,

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Speaker 1: as that my body down there, Am I dead? Or what?

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Speaker 1: She was trying to figure it out because she had

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Speaker 1: never seen, you know, and and she was trying to

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Speaker 1: differentiate what she had felt and known because that's how

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Speaker 1: she had known things from this perception she was getting.

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Speaker 1: She kept trying to get their attention, and of course

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Speaker 1: she couldn't, and they were afraid she was going to

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Speaker 1: lose her hearing. And finally she said, I thought, I'm

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Speaker 1: out of here. I can't get these people to listen

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Speaker 1: to me. And as soon as she thought that, she said,

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Speaker 1: I went up through the ceiling as if it was nothing,

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Speaker 1: and it was wonderful to be out there, to be

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Speaker 1: free and not worry about bumping into anything, and she said,

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Speaker 1: I knew where I was going. She finds herself going

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Speaker 1: up through this dark enclosure, she said, like a tube.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because another blind guy didn't. He said,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, there was color, and then there

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Speaker 1: was no color. He said, I wondered if that was darkness.

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Speaker 1: So going up through this passage where this tube or

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Speaker 1: tunnel or pathway, people describe it differently. I talked about

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Speaker 1: and imagine how then maybe this is like a wormhole

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Speaker 1: from our dimensional space into God's multidimensional space. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: So Vicky comes out into this place of tremendous light.

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Speaker 1: Vicky said the light was something you could feel as

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Speaker 1: well as sea, and even the people she saw were

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Speaker 1: bursting with light. She said, everybody there was made of light,

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Speaker 1: and I was made of light, and what the light

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Speaker 1: conveyed was love. There was love everywhere. It was like

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Speaker 1: love came out of the grass, Love came out of

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Speaker 1: the birds, Love came out of the trees. It was incredible,

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Speaker 1: really beautiful. And I was overwhelmed by that experience because

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Speaker 1: I couldn't really imagine what what light was like. It's

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Speaker 1: still a very emotionalble thing when I talk about it,

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Speaker 1: she says. And then what's amazing is Vicky and other

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Speaker 1: blind people describe light coming out of things in heaven.

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Speaker 1: Now where would they ever get that idea because light

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Speaker 1: shines on things, you know what, Ever, we don't talk

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Speaker 1: about like coming out of things and light conveying love

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Speaker 1: and life. And yet I interview a doctor Dr Mary Neil,

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Speaker 1: a spine surgeon, another, a pastor, a t W a

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Speaker 1: airline pilot, a bank president, who are all saying the

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Speaker 1: same thing that in heaven, light comes out of everything

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Speaker 1: and it's palpable it it has life and love in it.

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Speaker 1: Now here's the fascinating thing. That's exactly what John says

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Speaker 1: in the Book of Revelation. It's also what Isaiah says

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Speaker 1: in the Old Testament that in heaven there is no

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Speaker 1: sun or moon, because the light, the glory or light

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Speaker 1: of God is the light heaven and people will walk

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Speaker 1: in that light. And here's another fascinating thing, Daniel, another

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Speaker 1: Old Testament prophet Daniel twelve two says the dead will

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Speaker 1: rise up to everlasting life, and those who lead many

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Speaker 1: to righteousness will shine like the stars forever. It's exactly

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Speaker 1: what they're saying they experienced. But think about this, I

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Speaker 1: mean blind people, and not not a few, a lot

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Speaker 1: saying that they see and then describing the same things.

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Speaker 1: Let's head to the brake and we'll hear more from

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Speaker 1: Pastor John Burke. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife

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Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast, a

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Speaker 1: m paranormal podcast network. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife.

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Speaker 1: I'm Sandra Champlain and John Burke was telling us about

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Speaker 1: near death experiences of the blind. Um Brad was an

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Speaker 1: eight year old kid Um living in the Boston Center

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Speaker 1: for the Blind, and he says almost the same exact thing.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, he talks about going up this beautiful meadow,

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Speaker 1: palm trees and light coming out of everything, and the

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Speaker 1: light was palpable, he said, And he describes coming up

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Speaker 1: to this wall. Now he doesn't I don't think he

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Speaker 1: even knows what it is, because he never mentions. But

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Speaker 1: I I correlate the wall that he's talking about that

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Speaker 1: he said was shining with its own particular light and

429
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 1: it looked like gemstones, and I show how a t

430
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: w A Airline pilot is talking about the same wall

431
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: flying into this city, the city of God that John

432
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: describes in Revelation. And I used to read that Revelation

433
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,719
Speaker 1: one and it kind of sounded, you know, like pearly

434
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: gay eates and streets of gold, and it just sounded

435
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: like a bad televangelist set, you know. I was like that, just,

436
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: you know, it sounds like you're trying too hard. But

437
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: here's what I've since realized is John was trying to

438
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: describe something that is otherworldly. But as you mentioned, they're

439
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: all trying to use terms that are three dimensional and

440
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: it just doesn't quite cut it. And so I correlate

441
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 1: how what John is describing the wall and the gate,

442
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: it's not a gate, it's it's a perlescent kind of

443
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,400
Speaker 1: material that's an otherworldly substance. And this doctor, spine surgeon,

444
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: and this t w A Airline pilot and this blind

445
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: eight year old kid are describing the same wall and

446
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: the same gate into the city that they're going into.

447
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: It's fascinating. I mean, it's just it blows your mind.

448
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: You're like, oh my gosh, because you have you have

449
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: to sit there and go all right, these are these

450
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: are and I've interviewed these people personally, I know them. Yeah,

451
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: they're credible individuals, are credible people who have nothing to gain.

452
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: I mean most of them are millionaires. They don't need

453
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 1: to go right, fantastic books about Heaven. It's gonna it's

454
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: gonna mar their profession because there, you know, other doctors

455
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: are gonna be like, you're crazy, right, and yet they're

456
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: all saying the same same thing from different angles, and

457
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: it really is. It's like it's like, you know, if

458
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: you had a car accident and you've got different people

459
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: on different corners, they would be telling what they saw

460
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: and heard, and after you heard all of them, you'd

461
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: start to piece it together and see a three dimensional

462
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, representation. And that's really what I'm trying to

463
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: do and imagine Heaven, to show that picture that I've

464
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: been able to see, you know, or imagine because of

465
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: these testimonies. I personally have held back on sharing some

466
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: of my stuff with people that I don't know well

467
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: that are heavy duty religious, shall I say, because I

468
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: know there's been people even emails that I've gotten that saying,

469
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: you know, this is against the Bible, you know, talking well,

470
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: and I thought that stuff. Yeah, and I deal with that.

471
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 1: I deal with that. You've got to remember something, the

472
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: religious crucified Jesus. Oh yeah, how about that? Yeah, you

473
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: got to remember that. So here's the thing is that

474
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: don't uh and you know this, this was something I

475
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: had to work through, and it's it's part of why

476
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: we started Gateway Church, you know, for to be a

477
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: come as you are place where you know, we say

478
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: no perfect people allowed and doubters are welcome. And the

479
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: reason is is because so many people have gotten such

480
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: a negative view of the God of the Bible and

481
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: have not really taken the time to dive in and

482
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: read the New Testament for themselves, read the prophets for themselves.

483
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: Because of Christians who quite honestly many times are not

484
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 1: following Jesus at all. And you do have to remember that, yes, religion,

485
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: but not just religion anything we are addicted to playing God.

486
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: I believe this is really um you know, a A

487
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: talks about addictions and how really the number one sin

488
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: is that we play God and then we try to

489
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: get everyone and everything to do our will. We spend

490
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: most of our time, if we're honest, getting up saying

491
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: how can I have my will be done today? Oh? Yeah,

492
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: that's true? And how can I get you to obey

493
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: my will? And even God? And by the way, if

494
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 1: God doesn't do things the way I expect, I'm gonna

495
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: get mad at him. It's all about me attitude, it is.

496
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: And and you know that's what Jesus was showing us

497
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: is he came to live as a human to show

498
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: us the love of God and show us a human

499
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: who had wonderful boundaries. He was not a pushover, but

500
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: he could choose to love and serve others, even to

501
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: the point of lane down his life, and he showed

502
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: us an other centered love. You know, he didn't do

503
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: miraculous things to prove himself to others. He did them

504
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: to show the love and the mercy of God in

505
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: a broken, hurting world that turns away from God and

506
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: more often goes our way than God's way. But I

507
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: mean the claims of Jesus is that he came to

508
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: pay for all our wrongs and all our debts. And

509
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: this is the great liberating truth, you know, that I'm

510
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: so passionate about, is that we don't need to fear death,

511
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: and we don't need to fear God. And what causes

512
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: us to is it deep down we all know we

513
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: screw up, you know, I mean, gosh, you know I've

514
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 1: got I've got a long long list, and I don't

515
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: even know what God knows, right. But God created us

516
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: for love. He created us for a relationship, and that

517
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: actually is what makes sense. I do a whole chapter

518
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: on no more pain or sorrow or suffering, and that

519
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: the only thing I can find that makes sense of

520
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: all the pain and the sorrow and the suffering of

521
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: this earth is if the main point is that we

522
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: were created to love God. And the reason is is

523
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: because love can't be forced, It can't be coerced. You know.

524
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 1: You can't put a gun to someone's head and make

525
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 1: them love you. You can make them paret the words

526
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: I love you, you know, but that's not real love,

527
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: and we all know it. And God can't force our

528
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: love either. So God has created people that can truly

529
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: choose to reject him and go our own way. And

530
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: I think it plays itself out and we see, you know,

531
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: not God's will be done, but my will be done,

532
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: which is why Jesus taught us to pray the opposite right,

533
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: your will be done. And it was his last prayer,

534
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: not my will, his will is I don't want to suffer.

535
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: I mean, as a human, he didn't want to go

536
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: through that suffering of the cross. But he said, but

537
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: not my will, your will be done. And for the

538
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: sake of others he did that. So I think the

539
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,719
Speaker 1: liberating message of the Bible is that God is for us.

540
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: He's not against us. Crazy about you. This is the

541
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: other thing that I feel like. I love that he's

542
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: crazy about me. No, he is. Yeah, I like that.

543
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: Everybody take that in his listening God. And God is

544
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: a very emotional god. You know. One of the things

545
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: that in chapters nine through twelve I write about, you know,

546
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: who is this brilliant being, this brilliant God of light

547
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: that people see all over the globe. And the thing

548
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: is that the thing that's crazy is I mean, in

549
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: cultures all over the globe, when people die, many of

550
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: them experience the presence of this brilliant man of light,

551
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: who is brighter than the sun, who is love unconditional,

552
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: knows our every thought, every deed, everything, and yet in

553
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: his presence they feel more alive they've ever felt. They

554
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: never want to leave his presence. And they're describing the

555
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: one who Jesus who said I Am the Light of

556
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: the World's the same one that Daniel, the Old Testament prophet,

557
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: saw by the Tigris rivers said his face flash like lightning.

558
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: You know, it's like bright as lightning. Paul, as I said,

559
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: was persecuting Christians, and he has this experience on the

560
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: Damascus Road where this brilliant man of light says, Paul,

561
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: why are you persecuting me? And he said who are you?

562
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 1: And he said, I'm Jesus, the one you are persecuting.

563
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: And you know, Paul goes on like I said, to

564
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: start all these churches. John and the Book of Revelation

565
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,720
Speaker 1: talks about his eyes are like he describes them like fire.

566
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: But I've near death. Experiencers have described looking into his

567
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: eyes and it's like like all the colors at once. Um.

568
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: But that just draw you in and they feel like

569
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 1: they know everything in an instant, looking into his eyes.

570
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: And that's the thing is that. I mean, you know, children,

571
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 1: airline pilots, people in the Middle East, people in India,

572
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 1: they're seeing the same God. He's not impersonal. He is

573
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: a brilliant being of light. And actually, uh, they'll say,

574
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: not male or female, just God. But at the same time,

575
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: people who know Jesus seemed to know he's Jesus, and

576
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: in his presence they feel so known, so loved, um

577
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: never want to leave his presence. And another commonality is

578
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: he gives them a life review, so they get to

579
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: relive their lives like in a three dimensional panoramic replay.

580
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: And again, time doesn't work the same way. They don't

581
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 1: know if it's an instant or they relive the whole

582
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 1: all the years. But it's like that. And what's fascinating

583
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: again is that people come back. Let me read you

584
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: some of the things that they say. Can I yeah, absolutely, Okay.

585
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: So this one woman said, I went through this dark,

586
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: black vacuum at superspeed, could compare it to a tunnel.

587
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: I saw a bright light and on my way there,

588
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: I heard beautiful music and saw colors that I've never

589
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: seen before. She says, the It was the pinnacle of

590
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: everything there is, of energy, of love especially, but of

591
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: warmth of beauty. I was immersed in this feeling of

592
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: total love from the moment the light spoke to me.

593
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: I felt really good, secure and loved. The love which

594
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: came from it was unimaginable, indescribable, and it was a

595
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 1: fun person to be with. Definitely had a sense of humor.

596
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: I never wanted to leave the presence of this being

597
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 1: My whole life so far appeared to be placed before me,

598
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: kind of like a panoramic, three dimensional review, and each

599
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 1: event seemed to be accompanied by an awareness of good

600
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: and evil, or by an insight into its cause and effect.

601
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: Throughout I not only saw everything from my own point

602
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 1: of view, but I knew the thoughts of everybody who

603
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: I had been involved with in these events, and throughout

604
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: the review stressed the importance of love. Now, this is

605
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: amazingly common that people experience this life review in the

606
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: presence of this God of light and love. And and again,

607
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 1: you know, Jesus said, God is love. I mean, it's

608
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: it's who he is and and it's what Jesus came

609
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: to show us that love lays down his life for us.

610
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: There's nothing he would do for us. And in the

611
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: presence of this God of love, they re experience all

612
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: their interactions with people, and what they all come back

613
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: realizing is that love is the point of it all.

614
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: And they experienced their little acts of kindness, but they

615
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: also experienced their unkind acts, and they experience how it

616
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: affected the people around them and the ripple effect that

617
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: it has through humanity. It's profound, and it profoundly changes

618
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: the way people live. And I can tell you it's

619
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 1: profoundly changed the way I live. It changed what life

620
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 1: is about to me. Let's go to the break and

621
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: then we'll be back with more of Pastor John Burke.

622
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the I

623
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Coast to Coast a and Paranormal Podcast Network.

624
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain

625
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: and we are listening to New York Times bestselling author

626
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: Pastor John Burke, and he's telling a story about a

627
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: fellow pastor. In everything in life, it's so easy to

628
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: get lost, you know. I mean, hey, I'm far from perfect,

629
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: you know. And even knowing all this and studying all this,

630
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: it's like it's just so easy to get bruised and

631
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: beat up and lost in life. I read this guy's story.

632
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,959
Speaker 1: What happened is um you know, he's leading this big church,

633
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: doing lots of lots of good stuff, but he actually

634
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: dies on the on the operating table. And he said

635
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: that he rose above his body and he's watching the

636
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: operation and God is there with him, this brilliant being

637
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: of light. And he says, God gave me a number

638
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: of life altering, unforgettable messages that I'll take to my grave.

639
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: Some I can share, some are more personal. We did

640
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: not communicate just with words, but also with memories and images. Oh,

641
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: by the way, that's another one. The communication of heaven

642
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: is perfect. It's thought to thought. It's complete, and it's

643
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: it's feelings, it's memories, it's images, it's everything. He says,

644
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: God let me know just how much he valued me.

645
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 1: It's almost impossible to describe the perfect sense of acceptance

646
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: that surrounded me. Yet even in the midst of this

647
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: very personal embrace, part of me knew that not everything

648
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: in my life had matched what God had intended for me.

649
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: Despite my list of fiasco's, God had extended his total

650
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: acceptance and absolute love to me and showed me how

651
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: He's going to give me another chance. I got the

652
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: sense that God was going to give me an opportunity

653
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: to let go of the things that have become idols

654
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: in my life and allow me to begin to embrace

655
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: people instead. I was to become the husband and father

656
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be. Right there in the I

657
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: c u ward. I realized I didn't even know the

658
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: names of any of my children's friends. And what he

659
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: said was, he said, God asked me, what are the

660
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: names of your children's best friends? And he said he

661
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 1: was sitting there watching his operation listen to this and

662
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: just stuck like and he said, you know, my children's

663
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: friends have been over all the time, but I'm a busy,

664
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: important pastor. I you know, I was nice to them,

665
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: but he didn't believe. But he didn't even know their names.

666
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: And God, the God he worshiped and was leading others

667
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: to worship and follow, asking that simple question. You know,

668
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: this is the thing that's really changed me. You know,

669
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: we all want to change the world in our own way.

670
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: We want to matter, We want we want our lives

671
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: to matter. Jesus said, if we will love God and

672
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: love your neighbor as much as you do yourself. Then

673
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: you fulfill the essence of your purpose. You know. I

674
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: think that also includes using our gifts to serve humanity,

675
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: to do good for humanity. And there's another guy, Howard Storm,

676
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: who he was actually an atheist professor who had a

677
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: life review and he talks about how Jesus basically shows

678
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 1: him this plan of how you love the people around

679
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: you and it will change the world. And he was

680
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 1: kind of he was he said, I was kind of

681
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: questioning Jesus about it, like, come on, that's not gonna work.

682
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: And what he what he realized was it's the ripple

683
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 1: effect of humanity. God doesn't need us to change the world.

684
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: He needs us to love the people around us, and

685
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: when we all do that, that does change the world.

686
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: I heard somebody a once, love and fear can't be

687
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 1: present at the same time, but we can definitely turn

688
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 1: on love. And it's so easy. You can always find

689
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: something about the person you're with to love. I have

690
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: a question for you, though, just because I got an

691
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 1: unsettling email, which I think I answered the best I could.

692
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 1: But if heaven is so great, okay, and if in

693
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: this particular case, this woman had two children that had

694
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: died in an accident and her husband, and I even

695
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: think of her parents. One of her parents passed away too,

696
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: and all she wanted to do was fast forward and

697
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: get to heaven. So, as great as it may be,

698
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,319
Speaker 1: I am of a belief that our earth life is

699
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 1: for a purpose. Can you touch on them a little bit? Yeah,

700
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: And let me just say to um, we are not

701
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: to take our own lives. You know, people who have

702
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: and have had near death experiences and came back realized

703
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,760
Speaker 1: that was the biggest mistake that could have possibly made,

704
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 1: because again that's the ultimate act of playing God rather

705
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: than trusting God. I was saying, I can determine when

706
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: a life has purpose, even if it's my own, you know.

707
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: And part of learning to love God and others, because

708
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: we've got to love ourselves. We've got to realize that

709
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: God loves us, so we are of value, We are

710
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: of worth to him, and we have purpose. He created us,

711
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 1: and he created us for a purpose. Now, I found

712
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 1: it interesting to realize that though everybody who had this

713
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: life review knew and saw very clearly that truth that

714
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: they have a purpose, that God has a purpose, and

715
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: so many times God would say to people, your your

716
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 1: purpose is not complete yet You've got to go back,

717
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 1: and yet they still struggled with it. Personally, I find

718
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: that encouraging, Yes, that that it's not like, oh I

719
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: get it, you know, there's and now there's no struggle

720
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: and just like all obvious no, no, there there is

721
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 1: a struggle still of of just realizing, Okay, how do

722
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,319
Speaker 1: I just walk day by day being faithful with the

723
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: gifts I've given to to love and serve God and

724
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: the people He's put around me, you know, or you know,

725
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: if you're a doctor, how to use my gifts, you know,

726
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 1: not just to serve myself, but to really heal people

727
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: and care about the patients. You know, that was what

728
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: Howard Storm learned. Uh, you know that he was he

729
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: was obsessed with being a great professor and artist, but

730
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: Jesus was concerned with how he treated his students. I think,

731
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, keeping that in mind, the other thing that's

732
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: so incredibly encouraging about that we can all succeed. You know, look,

733
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: most of us, most of us will not succeed by

734
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 1: the world's definition, Like most of us are not going

735
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: to be super super wealthy or super famous or celebrities

736
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: or well fitness perfect, it's not going to happen. And

737
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: you know, I've traveled the world America. You know we

738
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 1: are the wealthiest, most well to do, most educated. We

739
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: we do have it all, and it's still not enough. Right,

740
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: So by that definition that that just drives us and

741
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: leads us to insanity. But when you realize, and this

742
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: is part of what I think, you know, the life

743
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: review shows us, is that we can all succeed, not

744
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 1: compared to each other, but compared to the unique path

745
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 1: God has laid out for us. Some people start with

746
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: you know, a friend of mine, Kate, she has cerebral policy.

747
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: You know, her struggles and her challenges are completely different

748
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: than mine. We both have them. But she can succeed

749
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: and radically be exactly what God wants her to be.

750
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: And she is by the world's definition, she'll never succeed,

751
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: but she will by God's definition. And on the other hand,

752
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: we've got to be careful not to think we're conquering

753
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: the world and we're something great and miss what God

754
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: said is most important to love God and to love people. Wow,

755
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: that's really great. And I think of all the different

756
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: denominations churches that close and that you're in a thriving,

757
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: several thousand member church. You're doing something different. You're delivering

758
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: a message that needs to be heard. You're encouraging people

759
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: to love and to serve. You're giving them a home

760
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: away from home. And it's not just in Austin, Texas.

761
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: Don't you have other branches of your Gateway church? Um? Yeah, yeah,

762
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: well they're not called Gateway. There is another Gateway that

763
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: is not affiliated with us. That was that was my my. Yeah,

764
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: but we we have. Yeah, we've helped start other churches

765
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: and you know, really that's part I travel around the

766
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,919
Speaker 1: world teaching church leaders really how to meet people where

767
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,439
Speaker 1: they're at uh, not play the religious games, but rather

768
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: do what Jesus did. Jesus went and you know, he

769
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: was accused of being a friend of of tax collectors

770
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: and centers. You know, he was accused of many things

771
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: by the religious And I think we've got to be

772
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,439
Speaker 1: careful not to cloister ourselves off from caring and having

773
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: compassion like Jesus did for a hurting, broken world that

774
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: need to know, like I said, that God created them

775
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 1: for himself and everything we love about this life, I

776
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:44,479
Speaker 1: mean everything is a gift from God, and yet Jeff

777
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: taste on the tip of our tongues of the feast

778
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: he has prepared for us. That's really great. How can

779
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 1: we find out more about you, your book, your church?

780
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 1: You can go to Imagine Heaven dot net or my

781
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: John Burke on law dot com. Um is my my website.

782
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: Gateway Church dot com is is our church's website. You

783
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: can you can listen to pass messages there. In fact

784
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: um we did a series called Imagine Heaven. If you

785
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: go into the message archives and you can watch many

786
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: of the videos of these people that I talk about

787
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: in the book. I I interviewed them, you know, live

788
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: during that. Yeah, so I interviewed the doctor and the

789
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: atheist professor and the t w A airline pilot and

790
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 1: several others. So, Nate, is your church one that somebody

791
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: long distance can still participate? Yeah, we haven't. We have

792
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: an internet campus and we have communities all over the globe.

793
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: We have a group that that meets in Norway and

794
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: Denmark and h and yeah, all over Australia. So well,

795
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: really good stuff. I know that people love to belong,

796
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:59,319
Speaker 1: so I'd love to feel gotten and understood. We do love,

797
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: to love, I inc's human, it's in our nature. Well yeah,

798
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 1: and to serve. And I think you've encompassed all of that,

799
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: and I really thank you. I wish you could go

800
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: on and on. Do you have any closing words? That

801
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: there is no one who is a bigger fan of

802
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: you than God, the one who created you for himself.

803
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:24,399
Speaker 1: And there's no one who will ever ever love you more,

804
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: or that you will ever love more, and so seek

805
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: Him with all your heart. Those are some beautiful words

806
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: by Pastor John Burke. Right now, I want you to

807
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: imagine someone loving you more than you've ever loved anyone.

808
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: They look at you, no matter what you've been through,

809
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: what hardships, what struggles, unconditionally love you. See your journey,

810
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: see your pain, see your moments of rejoicing, and no

811
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: matter what it is, you are perfect, whole and complete

812
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: in their eyes. That's unconditional love. Many of the people

813
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: of the world believe in God, and God to me

814
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: is a bright light and there are different lamps that

815
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: contain this light. So no matter what you believe, you

816
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: are supremely loved. Don't forget to visit us that we

817
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: don't die dot com. Come visit us on one of

818
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: our Sunday gatherings with that my friend. I'm Sandra Schamplain.

819
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Shades of the Afterlife on

820
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal

821
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: Podcast Network. Thanks for listening to the I Heart Radio

822
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: and Coast to Coast Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make

823
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 1: sure and check out all our shows on the I

824
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 1: heart Radio app or by going to I heart radio

825
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: dot com.