WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Commensalism 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:06.720 Hey, welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:10.920 Chuck and Jerry's here and this is short stuff a 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:19.560 great one because it has to do with ecology, environment, biology, drama, matchbooks. 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:24.200 That's right. I came across this because I was on 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:26.080 how Stuff Works dot com because I was putting something 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:29.400 together that we're not doing now but I hope to 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:35.120 do soon. On symbiosis. Oh yeah, and this is not symbiosis, 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.800 so it was mentioned as kind of not the opposite 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:43.440 of symbiosis, but that was something that's you know, runs 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:48.440 a foul of symbiosis. It's symbiosis is more confusing cousin, 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.599 more selfish cousin. It's very difficult to pin down in 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:56.400 some weird ways. But we're talking commence. All is um, 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.720 and the based definition of commence ai is um is 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:05.080 that um. It happens when an animal benefits another animal 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.200 or organism just by doing its own thing, and it's 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.480 not affected by it one way or the other. The 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.559 other animal like benefits from it, but there's no there's 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:17.720 no like tip for tat, there's no um harm in it. 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.560 There's it's just kind of a thing. Yeah, it's a 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.040 kind of cooperation Uh. A couple of things that it's 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:28.640 not that we should probably mention Besides, symbiosis is uh, 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:33.160 it doesn't mean you're a parasite. Parasitism is when something 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.120 is actually causing harm to another thing by sort of 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:41.240 sponging off of them, like the movie parasite, that's right. 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:45.760 Or uh, you know, or a parasite that lives on 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.040 your body and feeds on the host and the host 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:51.360 may not be aware of it, but that's damaging the host, 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:56.400 like the movie Alien. Right, that's right. Uh. It's also 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:00.280 not mutualism, in which that that's a little more line 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:05.040 with symbiosis, in which both partners are benefiting from this relationship, 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.239 like bees and flowers. They each get a little something. 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.079 They're scratching each other's backs and it's all good, like 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:17.120 the movie Wall Street. Right, Oh man, we should just 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:22.000 make this the whole episode. Uh. Commence Alism though, is 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.840 like you said, uh, and they're actually called commence als 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:30.040 is which is the one that is benefiting, not the 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:34.640 one that is unawares and just sort of neither benefiting 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.079 nor being harmed. And benefiting is kind of one way 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.640 to put it. You could also say that commence al 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:45.880 also requires the other animal to go about their daily 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:51.120 business for that one to survive. Sometimes. Yeah, let's give 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.680 a let's give a great example here that is found 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:57.120 in this house stuff Works article about Eastern screech owls 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:01.120 and blind snakes chalk. This is interesting, Uh, I thought 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:04.760 so too. So Eastern screech owls love to eat blind snakes. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.200 It's their favorite delicacy. It's like fall graw sushi and 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:12.640 tika masala to the average American, love it right, Okay, 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:15.840 And so the eastern screech owld brings a bunch of 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.960 blind snakes back to its nest to feed their chicks, 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.280 which is usually bad for the blind snakes, But some 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:26.960 blind snakes get away and they actually burrow into the nest, 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.440 deeper into the nest, out of the reach of the owls, 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.000 and they live there. And while they live there, they 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:37.160 actually feed on little bugs in the nest. That's right, uh, 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.440 those little larvae, and those larvae would probably be parasites 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:46.720 upon the owl. Right. So there's a lot of benefit 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.520 going on here, right, But in particular, the blind snake 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.200 is providing the benefit to the blind owl because studies 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:58.760 have shown that that um I guess hatchlings Eastern screech owl. 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:02.040 Hatchlings that are raised in nests where there's blind snakes 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:06.840 embedded in them typically grow bigger, faster, stronger, etcetera. And 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.960 they have a lower mortality rate than UH than hatchlings 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.000 that are raised in nests where there's not blind snakes. 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.080 So it does seem like the benefit they're providing is 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.560 getting rid of the parasite load in that nest. But 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.120 as far as the blind snake is concerned, it's just eating. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:26.279 It's doing its normal thing. What's a blind snake? It's 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.560 a snake that is blind, as far as I know. 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:31.919 I looked him up, and it's a It is a 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.760 specific thing. It's not just like any snake that's blind, obviously, 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.039 But um, I had never really heard of them before. 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:43.560 I had neither. What's an owl? I have no idea. 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.159 I told you about the owl cafe that you mean, 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.120 and I went to in Tokyo, right, I don't think so. 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.320 It was very nice. I would have remembered this. It 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.960 was so neat. Are you in there with owls? Yes, 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.600 like they're right there. You can hold them on your hand, 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.960 you can pet them. And I realized that it's like, 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.000 it's not their natural habitat, like they're capped and all that. 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.800 But it was very cool and they were very well 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.599 taken care of as far as captive animals go. Um, 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.800 but it was it was a really neat experience. Yeah, 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:16.080 it's okay to think that's a neat experience. Are you sure? 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.720 I'm so nervous right now, I think so. I mean, 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.440 I'm I'm going We're finally going to Disney World in 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.120 a couple of weeks, and we're staying at Animal Kingdom, 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.520 and I really want to wake up with a giraffe 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:32.360 standing outside my window. Yeah, go and work up. Does 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.919 that make me a bad person? Yeah, we're wanting to 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:40.760 delight my well myself. Frankly, are you going to go 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.239 on the Avatar ride? It's supposedly the greatest ride humans 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:47.320 have ever created. We're actually going to Animal Kingdom. We're 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:50.560 just staying there. We have three park days, so we're 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.560 doing okay, and that's not one of them. Now, we're 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:58.159 doing Kingdom, Hollywood Studios and then uh Universal, I'll tell 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:02.719 you what your daughter is going to love. Hollywood Studios, 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:07.640 Toy story Land. It is that nuts how well they 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:09.719 did that? Yeah, I don't, I don't think we're prepared 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:13.720 for the delight that is to follow. It's great. Yeah, 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.600 and big shout out to our buddy Brandon. Yes, might 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:18.880 as well. Who's who's helping us out. He works down 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.479 there and he's just very kind and generous with especially 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.200 if you don't know how to navigate Disney with all 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.000 the tips and stuff. Yeah, he's just a wonderful guy, 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:29.080 good stuff. Started out as a fan who reached out 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:33.640 and quickly became a true friendage right, all right, So, hey, 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:35.560 we needed a little padding, So we'll come back right 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.839 after this and talk a little bit more about commencelism. 0:06:40.680 --> 0:07:08.279 Thanks for the padding, Brandon, just like start so much, alright, Chuck. 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:13.600 So this article basically practically admits that ecologists don't really 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:15.680 know how to define commence all is um but they're like, 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:19.000 but we still have it separated into three categories. That's right. 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:24.720 The first, which is in quillonism, sounds totally made up. Uh. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.160 That is, when a species lives on or inside another 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:32.200 can be in that nest, like the blind snake living 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.280 in the nest of the owl. Uh. Anytime it's within 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:39.160 a There's another example they give of the gopher tortoise. Uh. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:43.200 Southeastern US. They have these really long tunnels, like you know, 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:46.720 sometimes thirty to fifty feet in length, and that of 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.880 course becomes a home for lots of different things, mainly insects, 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:54.920 but some of them have like evolved over the years 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.600 to need to live there, and some of them, including 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:02.840 this one moth, can only feed on the keratin of 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:08.840 the shells of these dead gophers. Ye, that's niche right there, 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.160 that's super niche. And so it's not just that moth. 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.320 There's a bunch of others. There's a bunch of other 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:17.520 kinds of animals too, But yeah, that moth is about 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.680 as big a commence al as you'll find in nature. Um. 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.840 There's another type of commence ali is um called metabiosis, 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:28.600 which sounds kind of similar, but it's where an organism 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:32.600 unintentionally creates a habitat for another. This is really where 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:34.560 we get to the point where I'm saying, like commence 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:36.920 all is um, they don't know what they're talking about. 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.800 Somebody figured out something that didn't hold out to be 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.839 true and they ended up creating a whole subdiscipline of 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:48.120 ecology out of it. Yes, because there is no example 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.839 that we have gone over or will go over that 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:57.400 you can't ascribe to something else. Symbiosis parasite is yes, 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.000 and now it's commence as um. It's a very confusing 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.080 thing that we're doing right now. Yeah, but didn't that 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.160 kind of a lot of science is the more you know, 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.360 the more you can drill down and separate things out 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:12.160 with their minor distinctions. Yes, if there are actual distinctions 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.440 that separate them out, that's what I'm saying. I don't 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.079 think there are, Like, like, let me give you an example. 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.800 So gopher tortoises, right, so there's commence als that live 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.120 there that don't just feed on the the gopher tortoise. 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.280 I will give you that one, that moth that feeds 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:30.960 exclusively on the keratin from gopher tortoises. Okay, that's probably 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:35.360 a true commence a list relationship. But the kind of 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:40.280 animals that living gopher tortoise holes, that eat parasites in 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:44.000 the gopher tortoise hole, that's symbiosis. Man, There's no way 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.880 around it. There. The gopher has provided a place for 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:50.080 these animals to live. The animals are eating the parasites 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.559 that would otherwise be sucking the life force out of 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:56.720 the gopher. Tortoise. That's symbiosis. There's no other definition for it. 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:00.559 And that's given as an example of commence a ism. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.160 But I didn't did I didn't see that they did 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:06.360 eat the parasites it would harm the gopher. Yeah, some 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.000 of them do. It says that they likely lower parasite 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:12.640 loads for tortoises. See that now even highlighted it. Yeah, 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:17.320 that's that's mutualism. Well, should we talk about the last category? 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:19.760 Should we just throw this in the trash? Now? Let's 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:21.199 talk about it the last one. This is fun to 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:26.240 kick it around, all right? Come here you uh foresty 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:29.440 p h O R E s y. That's when an 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:35.920 animal attaches to another physically, uh, to catch a ride. Basically. Okay, 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:37.920 this one is commence a list. I'll give you that, 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:40.880 all right. Do you want to talk about an example 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.240 that's not a biosis? That just annoys me because it's 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:46.240 the same thing as in quillon is um and a 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.720 lot of its symbiosis. But yeah, for c is like um. Like, 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:51.920 if you're a mite that catches a ride on a 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:57.079 b you can go from Mtville to my town really quick, 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.240 whereas otherwise you may never go there in your life time. 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:02.120 As a might because you can't make it that far 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.160 you But as far as the bee is concerned, it's not. 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.200 As long as you're not feeding on it like a parasite. 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.120 The bee couldn't care less. It's not getting any benefit 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.760 from it, it's not being harmed from it. But I'll 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.079 bet the might still feeding on it, which makes it 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:21.160 parasite is um not commence ali is um. Okay, I 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.440 was gonna make a judgment on whether or not I'm 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.480 with you on this, but then I decided I didn't care. 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:31.760 That was very right minded of you, get good um. 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.840 There is one point that I think is worth making though, 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.120 that commence ai is um can actually put an entire 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:41.480 ecosystem under stress, especially if you take the example of 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:46.400 that moth that feeds on gopher tortoise keratin. Right, if 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.559 you take that moth and gopher tortoises suddenly die off, 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:54.240 you're not just losing the gopher tortoise, You're also going 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.480 to lose that moth species too. They're going to die 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.320 off too because they're fully dependent on gopher tortoise shells. 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.160 They're gonna have a bonanza at first, and then eventually 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:04.120 they're going to run out of food, and that the 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.000 more commensali is um you have in an ecosystem, the 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:11.880 shakier ground that ecosystem is built on. You want species, 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.640 ideally to keep it as biodiverse as possible, that can 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.560 basically stand on their own, that aren't so fully interrelated 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.800 that they can't exist without another species creating a home 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.160 for them, or um providing food for them or something, 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.560 or giving them rides from might build might town. But 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.560 we should be good since there are very very few 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:36.200 examples of true commence als. Right, that's my that's my take. 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:39.680 I'm glad we're good. Yeah, I'm glad we're good. To Chuck, 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:45.360 do you think we're out? I think we're out. Stuff 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.920 You Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. 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