Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's
Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry's here and this is short stuff a
Speaker 1: great one because it has to do with ecology, environment, biology, drama, matchbooks.
Speaker 1: That's right. I came across this because I was on
Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com because I was putting something
Speaker 1: together that we're not doing now but I hope to
Speaker 1: do soon. On symbiosis. Oh yeah, and this is not symbiosis,
Speaker 1: so it was mentioned as kind of not the opposite
Speaker 1: of symbiosis, but that was something that's you know, runs
Speaker 1: a foul of symbiosis. It's symbiosis is more confusing cousin,
Speaker 1: more selfish cousin. It's very difficult to pin down in
Speaker 1: some weird ways. But we're talking commence. All is um,
Speaker 1: and the based definition of commence ai is um is
Speaker 1: that um. It happens when an animal benefits another animal
Speaker 1: or organism just by doing its own thing, and it's
Speaker 1: not affected by it one way or the other. The
Speaker 1: other animal like benefits from it, but there's no there's
Speaker 1: no like tip for tat, there's no um harm in it.
Speaker 1: There's it's just kind of a thing. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: kind of cooperation Uh. A couple of things that it's
Speaker 1: not that we should probably mention Besides, symbiosis is uh,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you're a parasite. Parasitism is when something
Speaker 1: is actually causing harm to another thing by sort of
Speaker 1: sponging off of them, like the movie parasite, that's right.
Speaker 1: Or uh, you know, or a parasite that lives on
Speaker 1: your body and feeds on the host and the host
Speaker 1: may not be aware of it, but that's damaging the host,
Speaker 1: like the movie Alien. Right, that's right. Uh. It's also
Speaker 1: not mutualism, in which that that's a little more line
Speaker 1: with symbiosis, in which both partners are benefiting from this relationship,
Speaker 1: like bees and flowers. They each get a little something.
Speaker 1: They're scratching each other's backs and it's all good, like
Speaker 1: the movie Wall Street. Right, Oh man, we should just
Speaker 1: make this the whole episode. Uh. Commence Alism though, is
Speaker 1: like you said, uh, and they're actually called commence als
Speaker 1: is which is the one that is benefiting, not the
Speaker 1: one that is unawares and just sort of neither benefiting
Speaker 1: nor being harmed. And benefiting is kind of one way
Speaker 1: to put it. You could also say that commence al
Speaker 1: also requires the other animal to go about their daily
Speaker 1: business for that one to survive. Sometimes. Yeah, let's give
Speaker 1: a let's give a great example here that is found
Speaker 1: in this house stuff Works article about Eastern screech owls
Speaker 1: and blind snakes chalk. This is interesting, Uh, I thought
Speaker 1: so too. So Eastern screech owls love to eat blind snakes.
Speaker 1: It's their favorite delicacy. It's like fall graw sushi and
Speaker 1: tika masala to the average American, love it right, Okay,
Speaker 1: And so the eastern screech owld brings a bunch of
Speaker 1: blind snakes back to its nest to feed their chicks,
Speaker 1: which is usually bad for the blind snakes, But some
Speaker 1: blind snakes get away and they actually burrow into the nest,
Speaker 1: deeper into the nest, out of the reach of the owls,
Speaker 1: and they live there. And while they live there, they
Speaker 1: actually feed on little bugs in the nest. That's right, uh,
Speaker 1: those little larvae, and those larvae would probably be parasites
Speaker 1: upon the owl. Right. So there's a lot of benefit
Speaker 1: going on here, right, But in particular, the blind snake
Speaker 1: is providing the benefit to the blind owl because studies
Speaker 1: have shown that that um I guess hatchlings Eastern screech owl.
Speaker 1: Hatchlings that are raised in nests where there's blind snakes
Speaker 1: embedded in them typically grow bigger, faster, stronger, etcetera. And
Speaker 1: they have a lower mortality rate than UH than hatchlings
Speaker 1: that are raised in nests where there's not blind snakes.
Speaker 1: So it does seem like the benefit they're providing is
Speaker 1: getting rid of the parasite load in that nest. But
Speaker 1: as far as the blind snake is concerned, it's just eating.
Speaker 1: It's doing its normal thing. What's a blind snake? It's
Speaker 1: a snake that is blind, as far as I know.
Speaker 1: I looked him up, and it's a It is a
Speaker 1: specific thing. It's not just like any snake that's blind, obviously,
Speaker 1: But um, I had never really heard of them before.
Speaker 1: I had neither. What's an owl? I have no idea.
Speaker 1: I told you about the owl cafe that you mean,
Speaker 1: and I went to in Tokyo, right, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: It was very nice. I would have remembered this. It
Speaker 1: was so neat. Are you in there with owls? Yes,
Speaker 1: like they're right there. You can hold them on your hand,
Speaker 1: you can pet them. And I realized that it's like,
Speaker 1: it's not their natural habitat, like they're capped and all that.
Speaker 1: But it was very cool and they were very well
Speaker 1: taken care of as far as captive animals go. Um,
Speaker 1: but it was it was a really neat experience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's okay to think that's a neat experience. Are you sure?
Speaker 1: I'm so nervous right now, I think so. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm going We're finally going to Disney World in
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, and we're staying at Animal Kingdom,
Speaker 1: and I really want to wake up with a giraffe
Speaker 1: standing outside my window. Yeah, go and work up. Does
Speaker 1: that make me a bad person? Yeah, we're wanting to
Speaker 1: delight my well myself. Frankly, are you going to go
Speaker 1: on the Avatar ride? It's supposedly the greatest ride humans
Speaker 1: have ever created. We're actually going to Animal Kingdom. We're
Speaker 1: just staying there. We have three park days, so we're
Speaker 1: doing okay, and that's not one of them. Now, we're
Speaker 1: doing Kingdom, Hollywood Studios and then uh Universal, I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what your daughter is going to love. Hollywood Studios,
Speaker 1: Toy story Land. It is that nuts how well they
Speaker 1: did that? Yeah, I don't, I don't think we're prepared
Speaker 1: for the delight that is to follow. It's great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and big shout out to our buddy Brandon. Yes, might
Speaker 1: as well. Who's who's helping us out. He works down
Speaker 1: there and he's just very kind and generous with especially
Speaker 1: if you don't know how to navigate Disney with all
Speaker 1: the tips and stuff. Yeah, he's just a wonderful guy,
Speaker 1: good stuff. Started out as a fan who reached out
Speaker 1: and quickly became a true friendage right, all right, So, hey,
Speaker 1: we needed a little padding, So we'll come back right
Speaker 1: after this and talk a little bit more about commencelism.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the padding, Brandon, just like start so much, alright, Chuck.
Speaker 1: So this article basically practically admits that ecologists don't really
Speaker 1: know how to define commence all is um but they're like,
Speaker 1: but we still have it separated into three categories. That's right.
Speaker 1: The first, which is in quillonism, sounds totally made up. Uh.
Speaker 1: That is, when a species lives on or inside another
Speaker 1: can be in that nest, like the blind snake living
Speaker 1: in the nest of the owl. Uh. Anytime it's within
Speaker 1: a There's another example they give of the gopher tortoise. Uh.
Speaker 1: Southeastern US. They have these really long tunnels, like you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes thirty to fifty feet in length, and that of
Speaker 1: course becomes a home for lots of different things, mainly insects,
Speaker 1: but some of them have like evolved over the years
Speaker 1: to need to live there, and some of them, including
Speaker 1: this one moth, can only feed on the keratin of
Speaker 1: the shells of these dead gophers. Ye, that's niche right there,
Speaker 1: that's super niche. And so it's not just that moth.
Speaker 1: There's a bunch of others. There's a bunch of other
Speaker 1: kinds of animals too, But yeah, that moth is about
Speaker 1: as big a commence al as you'll find in nature. Um.
Speaker 1: There's another type of commence ali is um called metabiosis,
Speaker 1: which sounds kind of similar, but it's where an organism
Speaker 1: unintentionally creates a habitat for another. This is really where
Speaker 1: we get to the point where I'm saying, like commence
Speaker 1: all is um, they don't know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1: Somebody figured out something that didn't hold out to be
Speaker 1: true and they ended up creating a whole subdiscipline of
Speaker 1: ecology out of it. Yes, because there is no example
Speaker 1: that we have gone over or will go over that
Speaker 1: you can't ascribe to something else. Symbiosis parasite is yes,
Speaker 1: and now it's commence as um. It's a very confusing
Speaker 1: thing that we're doing right now. Yeah, but didn't that
Speaker 1: kind of a lot of science is the more you know,
Speaker 1: the more you can drill down and separate things out
Speaker 1: with their minor distinctions. Yes, if there are actual distinctions
Speaker 1: that separate them out, that's what I'm saying. I don't
Speaker 1: think there are, Like, like, let me give you an example.
Speaker 1: So gopher tortoises, right, so there's commence als that live
Speaker 1: there that don't just feed on the the gopher tortoise.
Speaker 1: I will give you that one, that moth that feeds
Speaker 1: exclusively on the keratin from gopher tortoises. Okay, that's probably
Speaker 1: a true commence a list relationship. But the kind of
Speaker 1: animals that living gopher tortoise holes, that eat parasites in
Speaker 1: the gopher tortoise hole, that's symbiosis. Man, There's no way
Speaker 1: around it. There. The gopher has provided a place for
Speaker 1: these animals to live. The animals are eating the parasites
Speaker 1: that would otherwise be sucking the life force out of
Speaker 1: the gopher. Tortoise. That's symbiosis. There's no other definition for it.
Speaker 1: And that's given as an example of commence a ism.
Speaker 1: But I didn't did I didn't see that they did
Speaker 1: eat the parasites it would harm the gopher. Yeah, some
Speaker 1: of them do. It says that they likely lower parasite
Speaker 1: loads for tortoises. See that now even highlighted it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's mutualism. Well, should we talk about the last category?
Speaker 1: Should we just throw this in the trash? Now? Let's
Speaker 1: talk about it the last one. This is fun to
Speaker 1: kick it around, all right? Come here you uh foresty
Speaker 1: p h O R E s y. That's when an
Speaker 1: animal attaches to another physically, uh, to catch a ride. Basically. Okay,
Speaker 1: this one is commence a list. I'll give you that,
Speaker 1: all right. Do you want to talk about an example
Speaker 1: that's not a biosis? That just annoys me because it's
Speaker 1: the same thing as in quillon is um and a
Speaker 1: lot of its symbiosis. But yeah, for c is like um. Like,
Speaker 1: if you're a mite that catches a ride on a
Speaker 1: b you can go from Mtville to my town really quick,
Speaker 1: whereas otherwise you may never go there in your life time.
Speaker 1: As a might because you can't make it that far
Speaker 1: you But as far as the bee is concerned, it's not.
Speaker 1: As long as you're not feeding on it like a parasite.
Speaker 1: The bee couldn't care less. It's not getting any benefit
Speaker 1: from it, it's not being harmed from it. But I'll
Speaker 1: bet the might still feeding on it, which makes it
Speaker 1: parasite is um not commence ali is um. Okay, I
Speaker 1: was gonna make a judgment on whether or not I'm
Speaker 1: with you on this, but then I decided I didn't care.
Speaker 1: That was very right minded of you, get good um.
Speaker 1: There is one point that I think is worth making though,
Speaker 1: that commence ai is um can actually put an entire
Speaker 1: ecosystem under stress, especially if you take the example of
Speaker 1: that moth that feeds on gopher tortoise keratin. Right, if
Speaker 1: you take that moth and gopher tortoises suddenly die off,
Speaker 1: you're not just losing the gopher tortoise, You're also going
Speaker 1: to lose that moth species too. They're going to die
Speaker 1: off too because they're fully dependent on gopher tortoise shells.
Speaker 1: They're gonna have a bonanza at first, and then eventually
Speaker 1: they're going to run out of food, and that the
Speaker 1: more commensali is um you have in an ecosystem, the
Speaker 1: shakier ground that ecosystem is built on. You want species,
Speaker 1: ideally to keep it as biodiverse as possible, that can
Speaker 1: basically stand on their own, that aren't so fully interrelated
Speaker 1: that they can't exist without another species creating a home
Speaker 1: for them, or um providing food for them or something,
Speaker 1: or giving them rides from might build might town. But
Speaker 1: we should be good since there are very very few
Speaker 1: examples of true commence als. Right, that's my that's my take.
Speaker 1: I'm glad we're good. Yeah, I'm glad we're good. To Chuck,
Speaker 1: do you think we're out? I think we're out. Stuff
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