1 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry's here and this is short stuff a 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: great one because it has to do with ecology, environment, biology, drama, matchbooks. 4 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: That's right. I came across this because I was on 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com because I was putting something 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: together that we're not doing now but I hope to 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: do soon. On symbiosis. Oh yeah, and this is not symbiosis, 8 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: so it was mentioned as kind of not the opposite 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: of symbiosis, but that was something that's you know, runs 10 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: a foul of symbiosis. It's symbiosis is more confusing cousin, 11 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: more selfish cousin. It's very difficult to pin down in 12 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: some weird ways. But we're talking commence. All is um, 13 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: and the based definition of commence ai is um is 14 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: that um. It happens when an animal benefits another animal 15 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: or organism just by doing its own thing, and it's 16 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: not affected by it one way or the other. The 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,559 Speaker 1: other animal like benefits from it, but there's no there's 18 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: no like tip for tat, there's no um harm in it. 19 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: There's it's just kind of a thing. Yeah, it's a 20 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: kind of cooperation Uh. A couple of things that it's 21 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: not that we should probably mention Besides, symbiosis is uh, 22 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you're a parasite. Parasitism is when something 23 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: is actually causing harm to another thing by sort of 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: sponging off of them, like the movie parasite, that's right. 25 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: Or uh, you know, or a parasite that lives on 26 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 1: your body and feeds on the host and the host 27 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: may not be aware of it, but that's damaging the host, 28 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: like the movie Alien. Right, that's right. Uh. It's also 29 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: not mutualism, in which that that's a little more line 30 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: with symbiosis, in which both partners are benefiting from this relationship, 31 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 1: like bees and flowers. They each get a little something. 32 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: They're scratching each other's backs and it's all good, like 33 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: the movie Wall Street. Right, Oh man, we should just 34 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: make this the whole episode. Uh. Commence Alism though, is 35 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: like you said, uh, and they're actually called commence als 36 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: is which is the one that is benefiting, not the 37 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: one that is unawares and just sort of neither benefiting 38 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: nor being harmed. And benefiting is kind of one way 39 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: to put it. You could also say that commence al 40 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: also requires the other animal to go about their daily 41 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: business for that one to survive. Sometimes. Yeah, let's give 42 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: a let's give a great example here that is found 43 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: in this house stuff Works article about Eastern screech owls 44 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: and blind snakes chalk. This is interesting, Uh, I thought 45 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: so too. So Eastern screech owls love to eat blind snakes. 46 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: It's their favorite delicacy. It's like fall graw sushi and 47 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: tika masala to the average American, love it right, Okay, 48 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: And so the eastern screech owld brings a bunch of 49 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: blind snakes back to its nest to feed their chicks, 50 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: which is usually bad for the blind snakes, But some 51 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: blind snakes get away and they actually burrow into the nest, 52 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: deeper into the nest, out of the reach of the owls, 53 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: and they live there. And while they live there, they 54 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: actually feed on little bugs in the nest. That's right, uh, 55 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: those little larvae, and those larvae would probably be parasites 56 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: upon the owl. Right. So there's a lot of benefit 57 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: going on here, right, But in particular, the blind snake 58 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: is providing the benefit to the blind owl because studies 59 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: have shown that that um I guess hatchlings Eastern screech owl. 60 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: Hatchlings that are raised in nests where there's blind snakes 61 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: embedded in them typically grow bigger, faster, stronger, etcetera. And 62 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: they have a lower mortality rate than UH than hatchlings 63 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: that are raised in nests where there's not blind snakes. 64 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: So it does seem like the benefit they're providing is 65 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: getting rid of the parasite load in that nest. But 66 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: as far as the blind snake is concerned, it's just eating. 67 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: It's doing its normal thing. What's a blind snake? It's 68 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: a snake that is blind, as far as I know. 69 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 1: I looked him up, and it's a It is a 70 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: specific thing. It's not just like any snake that's blind, obviously, 71 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: But um, I had never really heard of them before. 72 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: I had neither. What's an owl? I have no idea. 73 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: I told you about the owl cafe that you mean, 74 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: and I went to in Tokyo, right, I don't think so. 75 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: It was very nice. I would have remembered this. It 76 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: was so neat. Are you in there with owls? Yes, 77 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: like they're right there. You can hold them on your hand, 78 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: you can pet them. And I realized that it's like, 79 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: it's not their natural habitat, like they're capped and all that. 80 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: But it was very cool and they were very well 81 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: taken care of as far as captive animals go. Um, 82 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: but it was it was a really neat experience. Yeah, 83 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: it's okay to think that's a neat experience. Are you sure? 84 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: I'm so nervous right now, I think so. I mean, 85 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: I'm I'm going We're finally going to Disney World in 86 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, and we're staying at Animal Kingdom, 87 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: and I really want to wake up with a giraffe 88 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: standing outside my window. Yeah, go and work up. Does 89 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: that make me a bad person? Yeah, we're wanting to 90 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: delight my well myself. Frankly, are you going to go 91 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,239 Speaker 1: on the Avatar ride? It's supposedly the greatest ride humans 92 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: have ever created. We're actually going to Animal Kingdom. We're 93 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: just staying there. We have three park days, so we're 94 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: doing okay, and that's not one of them. Now, we're 95 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: doing Kingdom, Hollywood Studios and then uh Universal, I'll tell 96 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: you what your daughter is going to love. Hollywood Studios, 97 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: Toy story Land. It is that nuts how well they 98 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 1: did that? Yeah, I don't, I don't think we're prepared 99 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: for the delight that is to follow. It's great. Yeah, 100 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: and big shout out to our buddy Brandon. Yes, might 101 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: as well. Who's who's helping us out. He works down 102 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: there and he's just very kind and generous with especially 103 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: if you don't know how to navigate Disney with all 104 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: the tips and stuff. Yeah, he's just a wonderful guy, 105 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: good stuff. Started out as a fan who reached out 106 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: and quickly became a true friendage right, all right, So, hey, 107 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: we needed a little padding, So we'll come back right 108 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: after this and talk a little bit more about commencelism. 109 00:06:40,680 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: Thanks for the padding, Brandon, just like start so much, alright, Chuck. 110 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: So this article basically practically admits that ecologists don't really 111 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: know how to define commence all is um but they're like, 112 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: but we still have it separated into three categories. That's right. 113 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: The first, which is in quillonism, sounds totally made up. Uh. 114 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: That is, when a species lives on or inside another 115 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: can be in that nest, like the blind snake living 116 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: in the nest of the owl. Uh. Anytime it's within 117 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: a There's another example they give of the gopher tortoise. Uh. 118 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: Southeastern US. They have these really long tunnels, like you know, 119 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: sometimes thirty to fifty feet in length, and that of 120 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: course becomes a home for lots of different things, mainly insects, 121 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: but some of them have like evolved over the years 122 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: to need to live there, and some of them, including 123 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: this one moth, can only feed on the keratin of 124 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: the shells of these dead gophers. Ye, that's niche right there, 125 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: that's super niche. And so it's not just that moth. 126 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: There's a bunch of others. There's a bunch of other 127 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: kinds of animals too, But yeah, that moth is about 128 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: as big a commence al as you'll find in nature. Um. 129 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: There's another type of commence ali is um called metabiosis, 130 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: which sounds kind of similar, but it's where an organism 131 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: unintentionally creates a habitat for another. This is really where 132 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: we get to the point where I'm saying, like commence 133 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: all is um, they don't know what they're talking about. 134 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: Somebody figured out something that didn't hold out to be 135 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 1: true and they ended up creating a whole subdiscipline of 136 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: ecology out of it. Yes, because there is no example 137 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,839 Speaker 1: that we have gone over or will go over that 138 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: you can't ascribe to something else. Symbiosis parasite is yes, 139 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: and now it's commence as um. It's a very confusing 140 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: thing that we're doing right now. Yeah, but didn't that 141 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: kind of a lot of science is the more you know, 142 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: the more you can drill down and separate things out 143 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: with their minor distinctions. Yes, if there are actual distinctions 144 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: that separate them out, that's what I'm saying. I don't 145 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,079 Speaker 1: think there are, Like, like, let me give you an example. 146 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: So gopher tortoises, right, so there's commence als that live 147 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: there that don't just feed on the the gopher tortoise. 148 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: I will give you that one, that moth that feeds 149 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: exclusively on the keratin from gopher tortoises. Okay, that's probably 150 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: a true commence a list relationship. But the kind of 151 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: animals that living gopher tortoise holes, that eat parasites in 152 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: the gopher tortoise hole, that's symbiosis. Man, There's no way 153 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: around it. There. The gopher has provided a place for 154 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: these animals to live. The animals are eating the parasites 155 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: that would otherwise be sucking the life force out of 156 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: the gopher. Tortoise. That's symbiosis. There's no other definition for it. 157 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: And that's given as an example of commence a ism. 158 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: But I didn't did I didn't see that they did 159 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: eat the parasites it would harm the gopher. Yeah, some 160 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: of them do. It says that they likely lower parasite 161 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: loads for tortoises. See that now even highlighted it. Yeah, 162 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 1: that's that's mutualism. Well, should we talk about the last category? 163 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: Should we just throw this in the trash? Now? Let's 164 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: talk about it the last one. This is fun to 165 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: kick it around, all right? Come here you uh foresty 166 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: p h O R E s y. That's when an 167 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: animal attaches to another physically, uh, to catch a ride. Basically. Okay, 168 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: this one is commence a list. I'll give you that, 169 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: all right. Do you want to talk about an example 170 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: that's not a biosis? That just annoys me because it's 171 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: the same thing as in quillon is um and a 172 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: lot of its symbiosis. But yeah, for c is like um. Like, 173 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: if you're a mite that catches a ride on a 174 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: b you can go from Mtville to my town really quick, 175 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: whereas otherwise you may never go there in your life time. 176 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: As a might because you can't make it that far 177 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: you But as far as the bee is concerned, it's not. 178 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: As long as you're not feeding on it like a parasite. 179 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: The bee couldn't care less. It's not getting any benefit 180 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: from it, it's not being harmed from it. But I'll 181 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: bet the might still feeding on it, which makes it 182 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: parasite is um not commence ali is um. Okay, I 183 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: was gonna make a judgment on whether or not I'm 184 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: with you on this, but then I decided I didn't care. 185 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: That was very right minded of you, get good um. 186 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: There is one point that I think is worth making though, 187 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: that commence ai is um can actually put an entire 188 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: ecosystem under stress, especially if you take the example of 189 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: that moth that feeds on gopher tortoise keratin. Right, if 190 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 1: you take that moth and gopher tortoises suddenly die off, 191 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: you're not just losing the gopher tortoise, You're also going 192 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: to lose that moth species too. They're going to die 193 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: off too because they're fully dependent on gopher tortoise shells. 194 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: They're gonna have a bonanza at first, and then eventually 195 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: they're going to run out of food, and that the 196 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: more commensali is um you have in an ecosystem, the 197 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: shakier ground that ecosystem is built on. You want species, 198 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: ideally to keep it as biodiverse as possible, that can 199 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: basically stand on their own, that aren't so fully interrelated 200 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: that they can't exist without another species creating a home 201 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: for them, or um providing food for them or something, 202 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 1: or giving them rides from might build might town. But 203 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: we should be good since there are very very few 204 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: examples of true commence als. Right, that's my that's my take. 205 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: I'm glad we're good. Yeah, I'm glad we're good. To Chuck, 206 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: do you think we're out? I think we're out. Stuff 207 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: You Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For 208 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 209 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.